Question:

This week a fisherman in Beaufort Inlet near Harker’s Island reported catching an Octopus on a fly.  He didn’t give out his secret octopus pattern but you can rest assured the guides are already mounting ad campaigns for octopus fishing, Orvis is developing a special octopus rod, and Scientific Anglers  has an octopus line in the works.  This time next year there will be several books out on octopus fly patterns and videos on octopus fly presentations. Have a look at: http://fishmojo.com/cgi-bin/noteboards/harkers.cgi Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!

Response:

This week a fisherman in Beaufort Inlet near Harker’s Island reported catching an Octopus on a fly.  He didn’t give out his secret octopus pattern but you can rest assured the guides are already mounting ad campaigns for octopus fishing, Orvis is developing a special octopus rod, and Scientific Anglers  has an octopus line in the works.  This time next year there will be several books out on octopus fly patterns and videos on octopus fly presentations. Have a look at: http://fishmojo.com/cgi-bin/noteboards/harkers.cgi Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!

Good.  Catch ‘em all and kill ‘em.  Octopi once had a well deserved reputation for being vicious, grasping, and rapacious.  "Scientists" (well known for their comsymp leftist leanings) have gone to great lengths…..some might say EXTRAORDINARY lengths….to "rehabilitate" them in the popular image for some decades now, and with not a little success.  But there are still those of us with a clarity of vision not in the least diminished by the blandishments of our corrupt cognoscenti "comrades".  The careful observer, unfazed by the clamoring and yammering of the proletariat rabble will not be immune to the obvious symbolism of the octopus’s eight slithering sucking arms radiating from a "central governing body", nor to the significance of it’s disgusting and cowardly habit of escaping under the cover of an obfuscating ink screen like so many pinko "journalists", rather than standing up and fighting like a man.  Shit, one good marine could open up a HUGE can of whupass on hundreds of them slimy little clam eating bastards!  And don’t even get me started on them chicom urchins just loafing around on the seafloor when they oughta all be put in a workhouse where they could be doing something productive rather than just sucking on the taxpayers tit, like we did when I was a ki…..um…….well, just DON’T!     Wolfgang i got a list here in my pocket!

Response:

Now there is one taxidermy mount you will never see…..at least nobody’s wife would ever allow it displayed in the home!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This week a fisherman in Beaufort Inlet near Harker’s Island reported catching an Octopus on a fly.  He didn’t give out his secret octopus pattern but you can rest assured the guides are already mounting ad campaigns for octopus fishing, Orvis is developing a special octopus rod, and Scientific Anglers  has an octopus line in the works.  This time next year there will be several books out on octopus fly patterns and videos on octopus fly presentations. Have a look at: http://fishmojo.com/cgi-bin/noteboards/harkers.cgi Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!

Response:

Wolfgang notes: "Scientists" (well known for their comsymp leftist leanings) have gone to great lengths…..some might say EXTRAORDINARY lengths….to "rehabilitate" them in the popular image…..

<much good humor snipped ….yeah, I think I read about that in the NY Times……or was it the Washington Post?                              Tom

Response:

Geez, Wolfy!  I did not know octopi were that bad, honestly.  Not did I know anyone could have such a vengeance against them.  It makes me look not so bad with my vengeance against grass carp. Please, enlighten me (seriously).  I have never had any kind of run-in with an octopus before.  What do they do?  Are we talking Captain Nemo and "2000 Leagues Under the Sea" kind of bad, or are they harming the fish? I can picture one mounted with its legs straight out and used as a coat rack. Scott

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This week a fisherman in Beaufort Inlet near Harker’s Island reported catching an Octopus on a fly.  He didn’t give out his secret octopus pattern but you can rest assured the guides are already mounting ad campaigns for octopus fishing, Orvis is developing a special octopus rod, and Scientific Anglers  has an octopus line in the works.  This time next year there will be several books out on octopus fly patterns and videos on octopus fly presentations. Have a look at: http://fishmojo.com/cgi-bin/noteboards/harkers.cgi Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!! Good.  Catch ‘em all and kill ‘em.  Octopi once had a well deserved reputation for being vicious, grasping, and rapacious.  "Scientists" (well known for their comsymp leftist leanings) have gone to great lengths…..some might say EXTRAORDINARY lengths….to "rehabilitate" them in the popular image for some decades now, and with not a little success.  But there are still those of us with a clarity of vision not in the least diminished by the blandishments of our corrupt cognoscenti "comrades".  The careful observer, unfazed by the clamoring and yammering of the proletariat rabble will not be immune to the obvious symbolism of the octopus’s eight slithering sucking arms radiating from a "central governing body", nor to the significance of it’s disgusting and cowardly habit of escaping under the cover of an obfuscating ink screen like so many pinko "journalists", rather than standing up and fighting like a man.  Shit, one good marine could open up a HUGE can of whupass on hundreds of them slimy little clam eating bastards!  And don’t even get me started on them chicom urchins just loafing around on the seafloor when they oughta all be put in a workhouse where they could be doing something productive rather than just sucking on the taxpayers tit, like we did when I was a ki…..um…….well, just DON’T!     Wolfgang i got a list here in my pocket!

Response:

Geez, Wolfy!  I did not know octopi were that bad, honestly.  Not did I know anyone could have such a vengeance against them.  It makes me look not so bad with my vengeance against grass carp. Please, enlighten me (seriously).  I have never had any kind of run-in with an octopus before.  What do they do?  Are we talking Captain Nemo and "2000 Leagues Under the Sea" kind of bad, or are they harming the fish?

Well, aside from their aforementioned leftist tendencies, they seem pretty bastards……they ALWAYS SEEM harmless……till it’s too late! I can picture one mounted with its legs straight out and used as a coat rack.

Yep, oughta have one in the lobby of every VFW and Legion post! Wolfgang

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Geez, Wolfy!  I did not know octopi were that bad, honestly.  Not did I know anyone could have such a vengeance against them.  It makes me look not so bad with my vengeance against grass carp. Please, enlighten me (seriously).  I have never had any kind of run-in with an octopus before.  What do they do?  Are we talking Captain Nemo and "2000 Leagues Under the Sea" kind of bad, or are they harming the fish? Well, aside from their aforementioned leftist tendencies, they seem pretty bastards……they ALWAYS SEEM harmless……till it’s too late! I can picture one mounted with its legs straight out and used as a coat rack. Yep, oughta have one in the lobby of every VFW and Legion post! Wolfgang

LOL! Scott

Response:

This week a fisherman in Beaufort Inlet near Harker’s Island reported catching an Octopus on a fly.

I remember being called by my daughter when she was about 13 and we were all snorkelling in greece.  I swam over and she pointed. She, in her mask and snorkel, was staring at an octopus, which, quite clearly, was just as interested and curious as she was. They hovered closer and closer, looked at each other, then the octopus swam away, stopping every so often to look back. I’ve found it hard to eat the critters ever since. Wayne, this of course was post-Junta Greece. The colonels wouldn’t have tolerated the liberal scum in their waters. Lazarus

Response:

I can picture one mounted with its legs straight out and used as a coat rack.

 It could be the center of a mobile,  your other mounted trophies hanging from the tips of it’s tenticals.

Response:

Question:

Hi  Sam, If you have a full size pickup, you can load the boat into the back of it pretty easily. Right side up and transom against the cab. A rack on top of most vehicles is pretty good too if you have two healthy people to load and unload it. A small trailer is the easiest way to get a small boat around locally. You will use the boat more if it is easy to deal with. A 14′ x 48" (bottom width) Jon boat on a trailer is very nice for 2 anglers. Most 12′ Jon boats are only 32" wide at the bottom and are pretty tippy? — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

Hello there folks.

I’m pretty much a novice at fishing but I have – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – been getting into it lately, and I’m at the point where I would like to go beyond fishing from land, its just too limiting.  It would be great to explore local lakes and rivers with a fishing boat.  Since I’m really not an expert fisherman I just need something that will suffice.  My two primary goals are two find something thats inexpensive and highly portable, and can fit two people, since I often fish with a friend.  I did check out a boat today, it was a Voyager series 4700 Jon boat, 12′ length.  The base price was $680, then when you factor in cost of electric motor, battery, oars, etc, it comes out to $1,100.  I can live with that price, but the thing that turned me off was that transporting the boat would be no easy task, and storing it might be a little challenging.  Are there any other options in this price range that would offer many of the same features that this boat has, but would be easier to transport and store?  Many thanks for any ideas you would have. –sam

Response:

You don’t say what part of the country you’re in. If you have room for a 12 footer on a trailer, that is definitely the way to go. Otherwise, a 12 foot johnboat will usually travel well in the bed of a full sized pickup truck. I used to have a 12 footer that I carried on the roof, and that worked OK, too. It was even a piece of cake to get it up there, as long as I had maneuvering room. I had receiver type hitch mounted on my little pickup, and instead of a hitch ball, it had a piece of tubing about 4 feet tall mounted on the hitch. Atop the tubing was an upside down trolling motor transom mount. I even had a little wheel that mounted right on the point of the bow. I could flip the boat over, pick it up by the stern and walk it anywhere with that little wheel rolling along. Then it was just a matter of picking up the stern, dropping the transom into the mounting bracket on top of the pole and tightening up the clamps. Then pick up the bow, walk it around to the front of the truck and set it on the roof rack. After I got the gear, battery and electric out of the boat, I could load it on top of the truck in about 2 or 3 minutes. As far as cost, I would wait till winter and look for a used one. You should be able to get into a 3 or 4 year old 12 to 14 footer with an electric for less than 500 bucks used. RichZ

Question:

 Went up to the Housatonic in Connecticut this past weekend with a bunch of friends.At first we were all a little bummed out about the high water.I guess all the rain had brought the level way up.It was tough to wade and difficult to find all of the usual holding places.I had brought a sink tip line that I had purchased about three years ago and never had the occasion to use.I used a two foot leader and a black wooly bugger.On the second morning my buddy and I went to a long stretch that another friend had recommended,I think it was the "meat hole",where the water was slightly calmer.     I realized that with most of the structure hidden from view that I was not going to be able to fish in the way I was accustomed to.I remembered some advice that I’ve seen mentioned here and many other places that a good way to fish a large river is to break it down into a smaller section and deal with it the way you would fish a stream.I worked my way out about twenty feet from the shore and I began to work the bank and any pocket water that I encountered within the "stream"that I had picked out for myself.I was taking my time,relaxing,almost zen-like,and I was hammering smallies with the occasional brown.     Although it wasn’t like the phenomenal low water fishing of last year,I felt that the river had something to offer if one was willing to be openminded about the possibilities.How often do you get to fish for browns and smallies during the middle of the summer?    What lessons did I learn?What it feels like to freeze in a panic as you watch your friend bobbing like a cork in a whirlpool(he eventually gained his footing).Sometimes fish like drag:during the white fly hatch I was getting no takers until I started to skitter the fly.I am not invulnerable:I fell in several times,but fortunately I didn’t take on any water.Some of my friends wanted the water to be the way they expected and fished it accordingly.They didn’t have much luck and went home kind of pissed off.I had a great time and call me crazy but I really enjoyed all the challenges that the high water was throwing my way.I also have a pretty good idea now why it’s important to pack a wading stick and next time you better believe I’ll have one. Tight Lines All, Shawn

Response:

This is the challange and satisfaction of fishing. It is why some people catch fish most all of the time, while others are shut down.  Great report. Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I realized that with most of the structure hidden from view that I was not wanted the water to be the way they expected and fished it accordingly.They didn’t have much luck and went home kind of pissed off.I had a great time and call me crazy but I really enjoyed all the challenges that the high water was throwing my way.I also have a pretty good idea now why it’s important to pack a wading stick and next time you better believe I’ll have one. Tight Lines All, Shawn

Response:

Question:

Reminds me of another local "snack" I came across a few years back touring the Canadian Maritimes.   It was basically (as I understand it) seaweed harvested off rocks at low tide & dried.   It smelled like low tide.   It was salty and strangely tasty though.   The name escapes me. Joe F.

        i aint gonna do it.  i thought about it, but i aint gonna do it. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

i aint gonna do it.  i thought about it, but i aint gonna do it.

LOL.   Best laugh I’ve had from someone *not* telling a joke. Upon reading my inadvertant straight line, I must commend your admirable restraint. Joe F.

Response:

Me to, but licketysplit I just got hold of myself and stopped. Dave

Response:

Joe It’s called Dulse and my impression is that it is sold more to tourists than locals! I was on Grand Manan island last summer (Canada, just N of Maine)and they claim to be the Dulse capital of the world (I get the distinct impression that it is a very small world!). In my home country of Wales we eat Laverbread which is basically a sea lettuce sort of seaweed that is normally pan fried with bacon. I love it, but my English wife hates it.  OTH we both find Dulse a bit dry, salty and strong, but with a beer – now you’re talking! David – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – guess it’s like smoked oysters, either you like em or you don’t! Reminds me of another local "snack" I came across a few years back touring the Canadian Maritimes.   It was basically (as I understand it) seaweed harvested off rocks at low tide & dried.   It smelled like low tide.   It was salty and strangely tasty though.   The name escapes me. Joe F.

Response:

Joe,    You reminded me of a time when I was taking my mother to dinner at Fisherman’s Wharf.  We had just gotten off the cable car and were walking down to the restaurant when we got a whiff of the bay.  Mom said "Whew, smells like the ocean" then paused and in a quieter tone said, "farted".  I almost rolled the rest of the way down the hill. Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Reminds me of another local "snack" I came across a few years back touring the Canadian Maritimes.   It was basically (as I understand it) seaweed harvested off rocks at low tide & dried.   It smelled like low tide.   It was salty and strangely tasty though.   The name escapes me. Joe F.

Response:

…it is a very small world!

Easy for you to say Davie, you never had to paint it! Wolfgang <who couldn’t care less about context under the circumstances

Response:

… A well stocked icebox full of white fleshed California peaches, oversized Concord grapes and plenty of squid jerky kept me happy in spite of the slow fishing.

Squid jerky ? Sounds fascinating, please expound. — Ken Fortenberry Illini 1 – Tar Heels 0

Response:

Nice report Mu.  I’m starting to think that unless we get some rain here in Michigan, we aren’t going to have any water left in our streams. Glad you could make the most of it while out there!  Did you say squied jerkey?? Jeff Boks Fly Fishing~~~~~Just Do It

Response:

Thursday morning I left home around 5AM to catch a plane to Los Angeles. Besides a quick lunch in the city, that was the last time I would set foot in LA until my return to the airport this morning.  Most of the extended Labor Day vacation was spent in Ventura and Santa Barbara counties which lie northwest of Los Angeles. First off, the food was amazing. Quality, variety and freshness which is completely unavailable where I live (it also didn’t hurt that my hosts were magicians in the kitchen who could whip up gourmet meals upn a whim).   Went up to Lake Cachuma and rented a little motorboat.  This is stocked trout lake with plenty of bass and panfish.  I didn’t expect any trout since it’s still technically summer.  The water was very choppy and all had I brought with me was 4 wt travel rod which was rendered completely useless by the constant gusting wind.  I put the rod away and became a full time boatsman at the mercy of the whims of a four year old niece. Next day was spent searching the Los Padres National Forest for fishable water.  My friend told me that many streams in this part of California typically have little or no flow by the time July rolls around. Nevertheless, a good map, a lovely lady and a well muscled vehicle were sufficient incentive to explore quite a bit of the nearby highlands.  I did find one stream that had enough flowing water to hold fish.  We bounced around from boulder to boulder and scaled craggy rocks to safely negotiate the hike along and through the creek.  It was more of a hiking trip with a few incidental pokes of my leader into some of the likely looking holes.  I only had three solid strikes and landed one plump rainbow trout on a prince nymph out of the deepest hole.   The last day was spent surf casting with "bloodworms" for ocean perch near Vandenberg Air Force base.  My girlfriend’s dad told me these were his secret baits that a supplier flies in daily from the east coast.  They weren’t the bloodworms I was used to from childhood flounder trips on the Long Island Sound, the ones with the big black pincers that come out of the sphincter on one end when you squeezed them.  These were what we used to call sandworms.  I caught one surf perch on a worm and later caught one on a sand flea that had accidentally impaled itself on my hook as my rig was tumbling in the waves.  Neither fish were worth keeping for the grill so I let them go.  The old fella caught nothing but at least he wasn’t doubled over in sea-sickened vomit position like the last time we went fishing together.  A well stocked icebox full of white fleshed California peaches, oversized Concord grapes and plenty of squid jerky kept me happy in spite of the slow fishing.  On the way home we stopped at the Channel Islands Harbor in a port town called Oxnard for some fresh dungeness crab, no utensils necessary. This wasn’t a hard core fishing weekend but a tour of some of the hills and beaches of the central California coast.  All streams, beaches, roads, turnouts, restaurants and vineyards were carefully logged in my mind for the inevitable return visit. Mu

Response:

Question:

Hi all, 1. The cost of fishing is going up, up, up. A good Sage rod can cost upwards of $600 for a piece of inexpensive graphite.  A day with a guide can cost above $300.  A night at a fishing lodge can cost $600.  (Firewood kindling can cost $40!<g)

Of course, we’ve always justified these things by pointing out how expensive cocaine is in comparison.  (just kidding) I am living proof that you can get an enormous amount of enjoyment from fishing for very little money.

Response:

Hi all, I’ve received a couple of nasty emails over the past few days which tell me at least a few people do not understand what I am saying in my posts under the thread "Orvis Bashing."  (Believe me, I understand that most do not care!)  I am concerned others who read what I write, but do not send me email believe I am complaining about my salary.  I am not.  Like almost everyone, I wish it were more, and I believe it should be, but I have plenty of options if I am really unhappy about salary.  I’m sorry if what I write comes off as complaining at all, but I assure you, I am not talking about my salary.  Let me try and be as clear with my ideas as possible. 1. The cost of fishing is going up, up, up.   A good Sage rod can cost upwards of $600 for a piece of inexpensive graphite.  A day with a guide can cost above $300.  A night at a fishing lodge can cost $600.  (Firewood kindling can cost $40!<g) 2. We, the consumers, are as guilty as Orvis or anyone in this game.   We do not critically examine what the return is for the cost.  We pay it, just like we pay for overpriced Nike shoes.  We have been marketed. This I think, is a relatively recent phenomenon in fishing. 3. We do not do this with all things, like taxes or education.   We want to know what we will get for increased expenditures and most of us are suspicious of those who ask for more.  Therefore, it is not an innate part of the human condition to automatically overpay for things we value.  There is no a priori connection. 4. In fact, public education (and the local library, etc., whatever your local taxes go towards) in this country is generally an outrageous bargain.  We do not recognize this (in part) because there is no slick brochure, no beautiful movie or hilarious TV advertisement that tells us it is true.  There is no marketing.   5. If we really thought about this stuff, there is no way most of us could justify paying more for our own recreation than our children’s needs. Summary: The real beef with Orvis (or Sage, etc.) is that they are great marketers. This is not a crime, and we as consumers are partners in the activity. We must first realize this.  I made some comparisons of things I know about in order to demonstrate how much we pay for things which need not be expensive.  "Costs more" is not always better, nor is it necessary. Fishing for trout is about standing in a beautiful river in a beautiful setting and that is still free.  Resist the rest.   — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

Rick Fletcher schrieb in Nachricht Hi all, I’ve received a couple of nasty emails over the past few days which tell

Hi Rick, I read all the Orvis bashing posts etc with interest. Understood your posts as well, in fact I invariably do understand your posts. Think it has to do with the fact that they are well composed and spelled, and you seem to know what you are talking about usually.  I think many people dislike being faced with moral issues, especially when this has to do with their passions and hobbies.   Some of the comparisons are a little hard to take, because they are obviously too close to the mark. I am bound to disagree with one or two of your points however, many people have no problem at all justifying the cost of their recreation as opposed to their childrens, or anybody elses needs for that matter, this is part of the problem. Also, one of the reasons many people go fishing, is to forget their problems for a while, and do not wish to be reminded of them in this context, because it probably makes them feel guilty as hell, having spent all that money which they shouldnt really have done in the first place !.  A lot of people are firmly convinced that it is not possible to enjoy anything much at all unless it is done using the " best" tools etc available, this all too often translates into the "most expensive" and I have actually heard people discussing tackle etc. in shops and the like, when somebody has said "it must be good, look how expensive it is ! ". This phenomenon is not new either, read some of the older literature, and you will see what I mean, Skues plugging Leonard rods etc. Hardys being praised to the skies for some perfectly ordinary ( but expensive ! ) bit of totally useless equipment etc. etc.  The high power marketing of today was not apparent of course, but then the market was far more limited. Even otherwise sensible people fall for "hype" when it has to do with their hobby, and this is what makes the market so attractive, the very fact that people will spend very large amounts of money for "names" etc, without really being able to judge whether it is worth it or not, and without making any appreciable difference to their capabilities, although pride of ownership etc might increase their enjoyment a little. Sorry you got nasty e-mails, but not everybody does things like that. Lastly, and on a somewhat lighter note, can you  tell me where this free beautiful river in a beautiful setting is ? ( just kidding ! ) Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

Hi all, I’ve received a couple of nasty emails over the past few days

        ok, rick, send me their addresses, and i’ll have o.c. and the bad boys from rowan county, n.c. chill the bastards.  anything goes in the defense of literacy! T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

        a. wayne harrison

Response:

Hi Rick, You are trying to link your desire of a high end rod with Orvis marketing. And then blaming Orvis for your need of an expensive rod.  Am I getting close?  Hard to resist though.   My wife and I have two children about to enter college.  I surely want them in the Dennisons, Harvards, and the Dukes of this world but, guess what, it costs money.  My daughter wants to go into elementary education.  Talk about a return on her (my) money!  My son wants to be a flyfishing, rock climbing bum.  But he also realizes that after the good times, he might have the need to provide for a retirement. Rather than grip about the ‘high end’ colleges, we simply pay the costs (without grabbing an appropriate newsgroup and soap box) or we council a college priced fairly for the educational degree we are after. Buy a rod on sale and make it do and don’t worry yourself over the Orvis marketing that none of us can do anything about.   Hope this makes sense. Mike Warren, OH/Cook Forest, PA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I’ve received a couple of nasty emails over the past few days which tell me at least a few people do not understand what I am saying in my posts under the thread "Orvis Bashing."  (Believe me, I understand that most do not care!)  I am concerned others who read what I write, but do not send me email believe I am complaining about my salary.  I am not.  Like almost everyone, I wish it were more, and I believe it should be, but I have plenty of options if I am really unhappy about salary.  I’m sorry if what I write comes off as complaining at all, but I assure you, I am not talking about my salary.  Let me try and be as clear with my ideas as possible. 1. The cost of fishing is going up, up, up. A good Sage rod can cost upwards of $600 for a piece of inexpensive graphite.  A day with a guide can cost above $300.  A night at a fishing

Response:

Well said Mike, I guess it really isn’t Orvis that I dislike, it is just their marketing, advertising and promotional methods. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail GO TO  http://www/ccnet.com/~emh FOR TRAVEL TIE BOX PLANS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rick Fletcher schrieb in Nachricht Hi all, I’ve received a couple of nasty emails over the past few days which tell Hi Rick, I read all the Orvis bashing posts etc with interest. Understood your posts as well, in fact I invariably do understand your posts. Think it has to do with the fact that they are well composed and spelled, and you seem to know what you are talking about usually.  I think many people dislike being faced with moral issues, especially when this has to do with their passions and hobbies.   Some of the comparisons are a little hard to take, because they are obviously too close to the mark. I am bound to disagree with one or two of your points however, many people have no problem at all justifying the cost of their recreation as opposed to their childrens, or anybody elses needs for that matter, this is part of the problem. Also, one of the reasons many people go fishing, is to forget their problems for a while, and do not wish to be reminded of them in this context, because it probably makes them feel guilty as hell, having spent all that money which they shouldnt really have done in the first place !.  A lot of people are firmly convinced that it is not possible to enjoy anything much at all unless it is done using the " best" tools etc available, this all too often translates into the "most expensive" and I have actually heard people discussing tackle etc. in shops and the like, when somebody has said "it must be good, look how expensive it is ! ". This phenomenon is not new either, read some of the older literature, and you will see what I mean, Skues plugging Leonard rods etc. Hardys being praised to the skies for some perfectly ordinary ( but expensive ! ) bit of totally useless equipment etc. etc.  The high power marketing of today was not apparent of course, but then the market was far more limited. Even otherwise sensible people fall for "hype" when it has to do with their hobby, and this is what makes the market so attractive, the very fact that people will spend very large amounts of money for "names" etc, without really being able to judge whether it is worth it or not, and without making any appreciable difference to their capabilities, although pride of ownership etc might increase their enjoyment a little. Sorry you got nasty e-mails, but not everybody does things like that. Lastly, and on a somewhat lighter note, can you  tell me where this free beautiful river in a beautiful setting is ? ( just kidding ! ) Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

Rick – thanks for the well thought out post. Based on your perspective of money and costs and value(s), I am certain that we could fish together. I could not agree more. Ben

Response:

Hi all, I’ve received a couple of nasty emails over the past few days which tell me at least a few people do not understand what I am saying in my posts under the thread "Orvis Bashing."  

[snip] Been there, fun eh? 3. We do not do this with all things, like taxes or education.   We want to know what we will get for increased expenditures and most of us are suspicious of those who ask for more.  Therefore, it is not an innate part of the human condition to automatically overpay for things we value.  There is no a priori connection. 4. In fact, public education (and the local library, etc., whatever your local taxes go towards) in this country is generally an outrageous bargain.  We do not recognize this (in part) because there is no slick brochure, no beautiful movie or hilarious TV advertisement that tells us it is true.  There is no marketing.  

These complaints work both ways. Canada has a universal health care system paid for by tax revenue.  I was at a party last year when one party goer (with a six figure income in anyone’s currency) whined and complained about how much he had to pay in taxes to support this system.  I wondered how many tens or hundreds of thousands he was willing to commit to an early death, just so he could become even filthier rich.  Neither was he willing to consider that the alternatives would have ended up costing the country and him, even more.  Limited minds don’t necessarily come attached to limited pockets. 5. If we really thought about this stuff, there is no way most of us could justify paying more for our own recreation than our children’s needs.

Only the most selfish would. Summary: The real beef with Orvis (or Sage, etc.) is that they are great marketers. This is not a crime, and we as consumers are partners in the activity. We must first realize this.  I made some comparisons of things I know about in order to demonstrate how much we pay for things which need not be expensive.  "Costs more" is not always better, nor is it necessary. Fishing for trout is about standing in a beautiful river in a beautiful setting and that is still free.  Resist the rest.   — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

What’s that old saying? Caveat emptor?  True in flyfishing as in anything else. Peter

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Oy, an intelligent post.  I had to, like, read it. As a public school teacher I can relate.  I often do extra duty and spend summer days in curriculum development or whatever to make enough money to indulge in my addiction.  Regular money covers other luxuries like food.  I think of this extra money not as dollars but as flyrods, which are very expensive even if you get the "good guy" price. Dave

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Question:

You may want to try some attractant, it may or may not actually attract them but the confidence boost can do wonders.  Try some beef liver cut into strips, it stays on the hook better.  If you own a pair of binoculars use them.  Most of all have fun and don’t give up! I promise fish will come, I saw (on TV) a trout hit a trolled plastic Batman action figure and your using better bait then that. Chris www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/4724/

Last summer my kids used gummy worms at my father-in-law’s farm pond, and caught a couple of catfish and a largemouth.  It was a very hot day though, and before long, the rest of the worms had melted into one big glob  :-(

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.ONE LAST THING …SCENT OF YOUR HANDS HEAVY SMOKING,GREASE ,OIL WILL DETER A FISH FROM BITING,ANY LURE MOST OF THE TIME .. Just to add to the last angler’s comments…….Never wash your hands with soap…..If you have to, use some Berkeley Erase and put on your hands. Good fishin’ Garry

You may want to try some attractant, it may or may not actually attract them but the confidence boost can do wonders.  Try some beef liver cut into strips, it stays on the hook better.  If you own a pair of binoculars use them.  Most of all have fun and don’t give up! I promise fish will come, I saw (on TV) a trout hit a trolled plastic Batman action figure and your using better bait then that. Chris www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/4724/

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Try livebait, if you don’t catch something soon, change body of water; experiment!… Take your time and observe what’s going on around you  [and definitely, READ].

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Some basic rules :  Use purple or Grape colored 6in. plastic Throw in rock piles & heavy brush near shoreline off the main channel move plastics about 6_12 in. at a time in slow or fast jerks. Always pause for a moment between jerks. thats when you watch the line for twitches . At this point set the hook as hard as you can.                  try this.

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 T I M E…YOU JUST HAVE TO PUT YOUR TIME IN…..AND AS FAR AS YOUR NEIGHBORS GO…TELL THEM YOUR A CATCH AND RELEASE TYPE OF GUY…CONSERVATION…..YOU WANT YOUR CHILDRENS CHILDREN TO CATCH FISH ON CATCHING SOME FISH ,START FISHING AROUND OTHER PEOPLE,WATCH WHAT THEY DO!!!!!!! HOW THEY CAST,BAIT ,RIG THEIR POLES….TALK TO OTHER PEOPLE LURE,SLOW,FAST,BROKEN RETREIVE) DONT BE AFRAID TO ASK QUESTIONS…GO TO A COUNTY LIBRARY…READ….ORRENT A MOVIE…THEY SHOULD HAVE INSTRUCTIONAL VIDEO’S ON ALL TYPES OF FISHING….ONE LAST THING …SCENT OF YOUR HANDS HEAVY SMOKING,GREASE ,OIL WILL DETER A FISH FROM BITING,ANY LURE MOST OF THE TIME …I HOPE THAT WILL BRIGHTEN YOUR

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Suggest you try Lafayette Reservoir during the winter months for trout.  Use four pound test, with a small slip sinker, that ends at a snap swivel; a leader of 18" to 24" with a snap swivel on one side and a size 14 or 16 gold treble hook on the other; baited with rainbow, flourescent orange, yellow or green power bait.  Take a row boat to the East Cove in the morning before the sun hits the water.  Cast and let it settle to the bottom – wait.  This is a great way to catch stockers up to 5 lbs.   It is what I usually do when the Sierra is in a cold freeze until the rivers are open for flyfishing.  Wear WARM CLOTHES.  Tight lines. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i love to fish. the problem is, i don’t know how. i usally fish the stocked lakes here in the san francisco-east bay because it’s the only type of fishing that my work schedule will allow me to do.i fish for bass, trout,and catfish.i use a bigger seperate pole for the cats, using chicken livers, while throwing spinners and plastic worms for bass , and power bait for trout, but i never catch any fish. maybe i need rigging skills, i don’t know, but my nieghbors always see me leave with poles and come home with no fish, but it’s even more embarassing when i take some of the son’s of my wifes friends, (or even worse) my own 5 year old daughter who only likes to go when we catch fish.                                                              please help                                                                   cakeman300

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i love to fish. the problem is, i don’t know how. i usally fish the stocked lakes here in the san francisco-east bay because it’s the only type of fishing that my work schedule will allow me to do.i fish for bass, trout,and catfish.i use a bigger seperate pole for the cats, using chicken livers, while throwing spinners and plastic worms for bass , and power bait for trout, but i never catch any fish. maybe i need rigging skills, i don’t know, but my nieghbors always see me leave with poles and come home with no fish, but it’s even more embarassing when i take some of the son’s of my wifes friends, (or even worse) my own 5 year old daughter who only likes to go when we catch fish.                                                              please help                                                                   cakeman300

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.ONE LAST THING …SCENT OF YOUR HANDS HEAVY SMOKING,GREASE ,OIL WILL DETER A FISH FROM BITING,ANY LURE MOST OF THE TIME ..

Just to add to the last angler’s comments…….Never wash your hands with soap…..If you have to, use some Berkeley Erase and put on your hands.  Good fishin’ Garry

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I’d say Chris covered the best basics, and I’d like to add this cause it happened to me when I started fishing years ago. Do not,I repeat, do not sit around all day Saturdays watching Dance, Houston, Winkleman, Orlando, Lindner,etc , because you’ll wind up tossing 2oz.spinnerbaits, porko fanbelts, carolina rigs, pop-r’s and  rattletraps  tied to 50 lb spiderwire  on some big ass 7 foot pole. Your on a "shit" streak,so rig light line no bigger than 6lbs. for a while. Remember that plastic worms are still on record as catching more bass in more situations than any other lure including live worms. When you are absolutely sure you are fishing too slow, …. SLOW DOWN some more!  "Do sumpin" lures often do something all right .. they keep you casting and retrieving so much,a fish would need a rocketpac just to catch the ‘ damn things! hope this helps ..Saint                                            *Z*  ~ The Saint                                                        

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Question:

I’ve recently started freshwater fly fishing and having read about where to look for the fish, I’d like to see a video on reading a stream.  Does anyone have a good video to recommend? Virginia Rick

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I’ve recently started freshwater fly fishing and having read about where to look for the fish, I’d like to see a video on reading a stream.  Does anyone have a good video to recommend?

Hi Virginia, Check out the old Scientific Anglers tape "Anatomy of a Trout Stream" with Rick Hafele.  He uses a giant orange phony fish to show you some of the best holding spots for trout.  The rest of the tape is full of great info even if Rick has to squint into the camera most of the time.  This tape will not only show you where to find them, but also explain why you find them there.                    Hope this helps,                           Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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Question:

Here in ROFF I have learned the following: Trolling a fly from a float tube is not flyfishing Using a strike indicator is almost flyfishing Using more than one fly is really flyfishing Presenting dry flies upstream is the only true flyfishing Eating trout is OK (and tasty) Eating trout is not OK, but perch taste better anyway Tailwaters are bad Tailwaters are fabulous Tim is a funny guy Ralph really likes Tim Many people want to flyfish Colorado needs hatcheries Hatcheries ultimately hurt anadromous species It ain’t the way it used to be And I agree with all of these things……. JE

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Here in ROFF I have learned the following: Tim is a funny guy Ralph really likes Tim

like him? I absolutley adore the big neurotic lug! Ralph H remove "take_this_out" for email reply

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Question:

Are you *sure* this was about fishing!!! Oliver Inverness-shire;  Scotland "Lead me not into temptation – I can do it myself"

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Before anyone gets crazy, this has nothing to do with bestiality.  My buddy has heard stories (yeah, right, another one of those "my friend" stories) of seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth? Tickling or "guddling" trout is ancient in England, described in many books. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Yup did it myself as a boy, ok only on small streams where you c can reach underneath the bank, slowly move your fingers along untiil you make contact, gently tickle the trout away from the bank and then flip it out of the water. I prefer fly fishing nowardays Regads

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I have tickled trout..It works. also works with goldfish (at least the ones in my pond) regards Kyfho2

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Before anyone gets crazy, this has nothing to do with bestiality.  My buddy has heard stories (yeah, right, another one of those "my friend" stories) of seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth? Brent

Not only can you tickle the bellies of trout, *that* is how you fish with hands only. As a boy, all my relatives would rendezvous on my         grandfather’s ranch during the haying season each August. It was known as "The Box Bar Ranch," and it stretched along Spring Creek, twelve miles outside of Saratoga, Wyoming. The day we began work in the fields along Spring Creek, during our break for lunch my uncles would place a couple of us in the water upstream, and a couple downstream.  The rest of us would then walk into the middle of the stream.  The trout would quickly retreat to the sides where the stream had cut deeply underneath the sod. Slowly, we would approach the banks, submerging our hands beneath the overhanging sod and placing them under the trout.  We could then gently rub the bellies of the fish. When we felt sure of our hand placement, SNAP!, with a quick flick of the wrist the trout would be airborne, heading for a soft landing in the mowed hay lying along the banks of the stream.   *Catch and eat* was the order of the day on the Box Bar Ranch, along Spring Creek, Saratoga, Wyoming, in the early sixties. Ed Hunsaker Mgr., Henry’s Fork Lodge 1994, 1995 —

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Not a good idea trying the above where mink are endemic !!! Muskrats can also cause pucker.  This happened to a friend back in

high school.  I’d never seen the whites of anyone’s eyes get so large.

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We used to do this as kids in the rivers in the Scottish/ English Borders: 1.  stand in a river in wellies but up to your knees in freezing water.  (it’s best to wear shorts so you don’t have to explain to geriatric parents.  2.  Fell gently under big stones or banks ’til you find a fish.  3.  VERY gently tickle it’s tummy until you can grab it.   THATS the theory!  Usually, you miss the grab, fall in and freeze for hours going home when (final indignity) you get a row.  Good fun though!! David Malone knows how. Oliver Inverness-shire;  Scotland "Lead me not into temptation – I can do it myself"

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seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth? Brent True. Easy to do if you know of an overhanging bank on a stream where you can reach under *SLOWLY* and very gently stroke the fish with your fingers and very slowly move your hand till you think you have the fishes centre of gravity in your palm and SCOOP the fish out. You cannot grab hold of it.

Reminds of the stories my dad told me ("Tall Tales of Oklahoma") about guys who’d haul big spawning catfish out of the mud.   A big flathead or blue cat would get the best of them sometimes (or so the stories go) and they’d never be heard from again…

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Before anyone gets crazy, this has nothing to do with bestiality.  My buddy has heard stories (yeah, right, another one of those "my friend" stories) of seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth? Brent

True, I’ve done it often years ago here in holland… (it’s here an illegal way of fishing)

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There was an english TV-series as well, where the method was shown. Seemed to work fine I don’t remember the original name of the series, but it was called in Finland ‘See you later, honey’ BR, Eki

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Before anyone gets crazy, this has nothing to do with bestiality.  My buddy has heard stories (yeah, right, another one of those "my friend" stories) of seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth? Brent

It’s perfectly true, but I’ve been told it only works on male trout. And how do you determine if it is a male? By giving it a couple of test tickles.

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Suggested reading on the subject is the Curtis Creek Manifesto by Sheridan Anderson.  He spends an illustrated page on the subject. Jim, Nevada Jim’s Outdoor Sports, Elko, Nevada

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I like the "test tickles" joke. Made me laugh. But no-one seems to be taking this seriously. Tickling trout does work. Although it’s not compatible with catch-and-release. You tickle trout (usually in small mountain streams) when you are hungry. Trout usually hide underneath something when they get scared. A hollow space underneath a rock can harbor a half a dozen tightly packed fish. All squashed together. Reach in there with your hand and tickle one along its side and underbelly, just like you were another fish jamming youreself in there–just long enough to figure out where the head and gills are. Then pinch real hard right at the back of the gills, and then head for the campfire. —  Sandy Pittendrigh          –O0       (406) 585-6600-5276

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The reason this works is that the trout thinks you are is making sexual advances. Ernie Harrison

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I made a trout laugh once. I threatened to catch it!

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True – works with ‘ladies’ too Oliver Inverness-shire;  Scotland "Lead me not into temptation – I can do it myself"

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Before anyone gets crazy, this has nothing to do with bestiality.  My buddy has heard stories (yeah, right, another one of those "my friend" stories) of seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth? Brent

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Tickling or "guddling" trout is ancient in England, described in many books.

… and it can still be practiced today.  While studying Arctic grayling in a river in northern Alaska, a fisheries biologist whom I know saw an unusual sight – a lake trout, which had evidently swum up into the river from a large lake downstream.  The fish was holding tight against the bank, and in order to confirm that it was indeed a lake trout, the biologist "tickled" it and lifted it out of the water. Woods Hole, MA   USA

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 seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth? Brent

True. Easy to do if you know of an overhanging bank on a stream where you can reach under *SLOWLY* and very gently stroke the fish with your fingers and very slowly move your hand till you think you have the fishes centre of gravity in your palm and SCOOP the fish out. You cannot grab hold of it. Not a good idea trying the above where mink are endemic !!! Pete Marrow work: http://ui.nmh.ac.uk/gsrg.html play: http://www.gorp.com/gorp/activity/scottish_ff_faq.htm

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True. Easy to do if you know of an overhanging bank on a stream where you can reach under *SLOWLY* and very gently stroke the fish with your fingers and very

The other benefit of this technique is that the fish will magically grow larger as this is performmed Tim Walker

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Before anyone gets crazy, this has nothing to do with bestiality.  My buddy has heard stories (yeah, right, another one of those "my friend" stories) of seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth?

Tickling or "guddling" trout is ancient in England, described in many books. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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The book that comes to mind is "How Green Was My Valley" about a coal mining family in wales (also made into an academy award winning movie, but I don’t think the movie talks about tickling trout).   Matt Carey

: Before anyone gets crazy, this has nothing to do with bestiality.  My : buddy has heard stories (yeah, right, another one of those "my friend" : stories) of seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up : on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth? : Tickling or "guddling" trout is ancient in England, described in many books. : — : |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | : |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Before anyone gets crazy, this has nothing to do with bestiality.  My buddy has heard stories (yeah, right, another one of those "my friend" stories) of seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth?

 Getting close enough to New Zealand Brown trout to tickle their bellies.. I think you want to post this on R.O.F.F. Fantasies…Tickle thier bellies…I think your friend is doing more than tickling your belly..

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Before anyone gets crazy, this has nothing to do with bestiality.  My buddy has heard stories (yeah, right, another one of those "my friend" stories) of seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth? Tickling or "guddling" trout is ancient in England, described in many books.

It’s usually done where ther are undercut banks and the trout may be reached by shore.  It can be described much better in some survival books such as, "The S.A.S. Survival Handbook". Steve —

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Before anyone gets crazy, this has nothing to do with bestiality.  My buddy has heard stories (yeah, right, another one of those "my friend" stories) of seducing brown trout in New Zealand by stealthily sneaking up on them and immobilizing them by stroking their bellies.  True or myth?

Brent, this brings back some old memories. Yes, ‘tickling trout’ is possible and something I’ve done many times as a lad in England. Most of the good trout waters were posted/private and we needed a way to catch fish without a rod. If we didn’t have a pole, we couldn’t possibly be poaching.   We would stand motionless in the water (I remember one favourite place was the river Mole just down from Box Hill) until the trout returned to their feeding stations. People that don’t move didn’t bother them at all. Then we would stretch our hands out about a foot or so (slowly) under a trout and ‘flutter’ our fingers while gradually lifting them and getting closer to the trout’s belly. The action appeared to lull them to sleep and we’d eventually end up with our hands actually touching the fish. Then we just lifted them out of the water and into the bag. Seems to work with most species of trout although ours were mostly speckles. Just for the record – I tried this with pike and it didn’t have the same effect although I did manage to catch pike with my bare hands. My fishing techniques have become somewhat more sophisticated since. David E. Malone All opinions expressed are my own.

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Question:

 bring and where to go.  I don’t mind traveling an hour to get to a good  fishing spot.

You’ll have to travel more than an hour.  The nearest stream worth fishing is probably the South Branch of the Au Sable, about three hours north, near Roscommon.  I don’t remember what hatches would be proceeding then — standard midsummer stuff.

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I will be in Auburn Hills, Michigan (near Pontiac, MI) on business from July 17 through July 22.  I would like to bring my fly rod with me and do some fishing.  Can someone out there give me some advice on what flys to bring and where to go.  I don’t mind traveling an hour to get to a good fishing spot.

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