Question:

Took my son Tom, up NW of Jackman, Me. for a couple of nights of camping and fishing. We drove up Friday, the weather threatening some rain so I nipped into WallyWorld and got him a cheapie rainsuit, hopefully guaranteeing that it wouldn’t rain. On the way in we went down to the boat launch on Holeb pond, one of two spots where people put in for the "bow trip". The campsite was mobbed, a full troop of scouts from Connecticut were preparing to launch the bow trip the next day and there was a full load of other campers. We then drove up to Turner pond, a small pond with special regs (arts only, 2 fish with a slot limit) and found that campsite deserted so we made camp. After a tasty steak we took the canoe out on the pond and to my surprise there were some hex’s hatching so I rigged up and moved down the left shore where I spotted some fish rising. I managed to miss a half dozen hits and the hatch died off so we made for the tent. The next morning after breakfast we went out and I hit the sinking line hard, fishing streamers and missed a couple of feeble hits. After lunch I let Tom take the canoe out by himself, a first for him, and he went out to a big rock and managed to get on the rock without dumping himself in the pond. He found a plaque that was somewhat sobering, commerating two fishermen who drowned in 1976 while fishing their "favorite pond". Later in the day a local came by and shared what he knew about it, the two gentlemen, one in his 70’s and one in his 50’s, a father and son, got caught on the pond in a storm and their canoe capsized, they didn’t make it to shore. Tom wanted to try flyfishing so I spent an hour or so with him in the road working on his cast. After dinner we went back out and he managed a couple of brookies, one about 6" and one about 10" on the dry fly. He was very happy. I managed one about 12" and again the hatch died off so we made to bed. This morning the wind was high, it was drizzling and nasty hot and humid, the mosquitoes were well fed, so we decided to cut the trip short by a day and come home. He was ready and to be fair so was I. Turner pond, for the record, is a pretty little pond about 18 miles out of Jackman. The main concentration of fish seemed to be on the north shore, where I could hear a fast running brook, but never managed to see where it was dumping into the pond. I suspect the fish population isn’t what it should be, or it was just a poor weekend for fishing as there were not that many fish showing, despite the hex hatch. I did manage to foul hook a 4" rainbow smelt on my #6 dry fly, a new accomplishment in setting records for the smallest fish on a trip The kick for me in this trip was Tom’s first trout/fish on a flyrod.  Tom had tried flyfishing once before but refused to practice casting, so the results were predictable, he got skunked and discouraged. The kick for Tom this time was outfishing his dad, and on a fly rod to boot ( he was so smug). In another 10-15 years I expect he’ll be in here sharing his (hopefully improved) puns and sharply developing sense of humor. Another flyfisherman has been introduced to the ranks. Flyfish — dave’s homepage madness http://www.ctel.net/~brooktrout flyfishing in Maine and more

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Great report, Dave.  I’ve been thinking about making an overnighter up that direction sometime in the next week or so.  May even stop by the Rapid.  How are water levels in the rivers?  Water temps? Dave L.

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appreciated.  Indian Joe

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appreciated. Indian Joe

You should be able to forward the message, is a list isn’t it? Just forward the roff message to the address you use to post to the list. — Charlie…

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The Kennebec north of Madison is running very low, except the streach near the forks where the levels are dictated by the rafting companies. I stopped in a small fly shop near Solon on the way back and he said that the river is fishing well, but the hatches are poor, nymphs seem to be the ticket. He also said the water temp is running 65-68 in the Kennebec. I’m told the kennebec in Waterville is so low that you have to carry your boat across the sand bar, I’ve never seen it that low. Also Waterville is "off" as far as fishing, the trout must be sulking and the stripers went back down the river. Fly

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Great report, Dave.  I’ve been thinking about making an overnighter up that direction sometime in the next week or so.  May even stop by the Rapid. How are water levels in the rivers?  Water temps? Dave L.

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Question:

I am considering purchasing a Winston Fly Rod. I am look for someone who has fished with a Winston and there opinions, compared to other available Rod on the market. Thanks Roger

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Winston rods are the most beautiful rods to look at and to cast.  They are not "parking lot" rods like Sage, Loomis, etc. (rods intended to impress with distance).  They fish wonderfully at the distances intended and protect light tippets.  I own three, a 7′ #2, a 8.5′ #3, and a 9′ #5, all IM6.  The 8.5 #3 (3 piece) is my first choice for dry flies on lakes (no wind) or small streams and spring creeks.  I own several Sage rods, and prefer the LL series, the RPL series have been good lake and nymphing rods for me.

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I have a Hexagraph 8 1/2′ 7 wt, Sage RPL+ 9′ 6 wt, a Cortland Graphite 9′ 6 wt and a Winston 7 1/2′ 4wt.  I will never give up that Winston.  I really like the Sage, my son has the Cortland, the Hexagraph looks good on the wall, but that Winston blows everything else away.  Bar none, it is the best rod I ever used in 35 years of flyfishing.  It feels like an extension of my arm. Kevin

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Buying a Winston is like buying a Mercedes Benz.  Will other rods throw a line to where the fish are? You bet!  Will they feel as nice a Winston? Maybe not.  Will another rod look as good as a Winston? Probably not. I have a couple of Winston rods (along with Sage’s Powell’s and a couple of other).  The Winston fishes out to about 40′ as good or better than any of the rod’s in my quiver.  So I guess it comes down to, Do you want the Mercedes or a Chevy. Just my two cents…. Wes – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am considering purchasing a Winston Fly Rod. I am look for someone who has fished with a Winston and there opinions, compared to other available Rod on the market. Thanks Roger

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I am considering purchasing a Winston Fly Rod. I am look for someone who has fished with a Winston and there opinions, compared to other available Rod on the market.

Nobody makes as sweet a set of trouting rods as Winston. I have three of them – ranging from a 7′6"/2wt to a 9′/5wt, and they are my favorites. I currently have no fewer than 20 fishable fly rods, mostly graphite but a few cane rods as well, with Sage, GLoomis, Thomas & Thomas, Orvis, Powell, and Lamiglas in the mix, and the Winstons are the ones I use the most. If your casting style suits them, there *aren’t* any other available rods on the market ;^) /dave

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Question:

Well, for all those who have followed my insipid malarkey about buying a new boat, well, I did.  I bought a Jive 8-10! I haven’t seen it (it’s coming from Portland today), I haven’t paddled it– but living in N. Idaho, I wouldn’t be able to do that kind of thing anyway.  I told Young Scott that he was lucky being able to put all those different cool boats in one spot and paddle away– and, ya know, I do miss that warm SE whitewater (I lived in Durham before I moved out here).  Paddling w/out dry gear is the exception– not the rule.

You did manage to pick one of the very few boats I have not paddled.   I would think that you made an excellent choice though.   A souped up bigger Jive should be a very good river running play boat.  They had an excellent hull already and I am assuming they have improved it. Am I correct in what I am thinking this boat is? Scott Bristow

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Well, for all those who have followed my insipid malarkey about buying a new boat, well, I did.  I bought a Jive 8-10!

Great! But as with every situation, there are disadvantages (no demo days unless you want to go to Portland!) — but there are also advantages.

Ummm, you need to check out Mountain Gear more often.  Two days from now, saturday the 16th, Mad River is having a demo days on the Spokane river in conjunction with Mountain Gear.  M.G. also bring a lot of kayaks. Additionally, M.G. makes a weekly trip to the river to demo their boats…it must be tough being an employee there.  Get their schedule. Call them if you want a particular boat brought for you to try.  We are less than an hour from you; how have you missed this?

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Well, I got home from Stanley to see my new Jive 8-10 sitting in my shop. Haven’t paddled it, but it looks like a great boat for a big person.  Similar to the Hammer (and about as roomy), similar kind of forward rocker, but more balanced bow and stern volume.  Doesn’t look like a squirter, but I’ll take it out and get back to folks. Thanks for all the input– though I ended up doing what I did, reading about all the different boats helped.  Looks like the 8-10 will be good for other big folks, and we can start having the fun without the misery that smaller folks have been having in some of the cooler boats. DISCLAIMER:  I have not! paddled either the Jive 8-10 or the Hammer, just sat in them.  I’ll file an update after I get out this week. Chuck You did manage to pick one of the very few boats I have not paddled.   I would think that you made an excellent choice though.   A souped up bigger Jive should be a very good river running play boat.  They had an excellent hull already and I am assuming they have improved it. Am I correct in what I am thinking this boat is? Scott Bristow

– Charles Pezeshki, Director Clearwater Biodiversity Project 1031 Spring Valley Rd. Troy, ID 83871 208-835-2999 (Voice and FAX) Call before sending FAX To check out my new book, "Wild to the Last: Environmental Conflict in the Clearwater Country", go to http://publications.urel.wsu.edu:80/Press/WildtoLast.html

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<<DISCLAIMER:  I have not! paddled either the Jive 8-10 or the Hammer, just sat in them.  I’ll file an update after I get out this week.  Chuck New boats, before you paddle them, are just like the next generation of computer operating systems:  they will solve ALL the problems with what you are using now.  That is, until you actually start using them. -Ray

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    After fifteen years of  K-1 white-water paddling, I’ve gone over…..Gone over to the Dark Side.  To please the Lady, the Light and Love of my life (but…hey that’s another thread) I took an Orvis fly-fishing course this weekend. There I was… standing STILL in a river that I have paddled many times. I couldn’t help but think about my boating-self sliding by my new found fishing-self and how both of us felt. I (boating) have always tried to be silent and circumspect when passing anglers. Courtesy and etiquette (yet another thread?) seem to demand nothing less. Tis a lesson to be learned tho…. to walk a mile in another man’s uh….hip boots.  Fishing for trout is as incredible complex as learning linked cartwheels and mystery moves. And, I found out this weekend, as addictive. It came as a small revelation when our instructor informed us that trout can be spooked by the shadow of a fly-line passing overhead. Made me wonder what the shadow of a nine foot boat must do. I asked our instructor what he thought of  kayakers. I was expecting a diatribe but he turned to me and said, "Sure looks like fun…. and most of um try to be real quiet, too."  Maybe there is hope for us yet!

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Well, for all those who have followed my insipid malarkey about buying a new boat, well, I did.  I bought a Jive 8-10! I haven’t seen it (it’s coming from Portland today), I haven’t paddled it– but living in N. Idaho, I wouldn’t be able to do that kind of thing anyway.  I told Young Scott that he was lucky being able to put all those different cool boats in one spot and paddle away– and, ya know, I do miss that warm SE whitewater (I lived in Durham before I moved out here).  Paddling w/out dry gear is the exception– not the rule. But as with every situation, there are disadvantages (no demo days unless you want to go to Portland!) — but there are also advantages. We floated Lolo Ck., a classic Class IV-V run, 18 miles, one hour from my house, last weekend.  There was only one other party on the river– another group of friends (gloat). Gotta do the enviro thing this weekend (keep those rivers running free with actual trees next to them), but hopefully, I’ll be up on that big ole Lochsa wave, 360-ing away next week!  Stay tuned. Chuck — Charles Pezeshki, Director Clearwater Biodiversity Project To check out my new book, "Wild to the Last: Environmental Conflict in the Clearwater Country", go to http://publications.urel.wsu.edu:80/Press/WildtoLast.html

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Question:

I need to buy some new DT, #6 fly line to replace my old, green double taper.  There are so many different colors available now:  fluorescent orange or mint green, Hi-Vis Chartreuse, moon glo, etc.  Any pros or cons on the high visibility lines?  I like the idea and am kind of partial to the fluorescent orange but I’m not sure how the fish feel about it.   Please respond by e-mail as well as to the group as my news server is not reliable. Thanks, — To reply, remove one "bs" from E-mail address

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A fish looking up at a floating fly line will see it as a black outline against the sky regardless of what colour it is. Buy the colour that you will be able to see best in your fishing environment. I suspect you will now be inundated with people telling you otherwise, such is life! — Regards Peter (Remove "nospam"to email)

:I need to buy some new DT, #6 fly line to replace my old, green double :taper.  There are so many different colors available now:  fluorescent range or mint green, Hi-Vis Chartreuse, moon glo, etc.  Any pros or cons n the high visibility lines?  I like the idea and am kind of partial to :the fluorescent orange but I’m not sure how the fish feel about it. :  Please respond by e-mail as well as to the group as my news server is :not reliable. : :Thanks, : :– :To reply, remove one "bs" from E-mail address

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I would have to agree with the other post.  If the flyline is close enough to get noticed by the fish you’ve got problems no matter what color it is. Good Fishing C. Segina

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Another trick I’ve employed (I think) successfully is to "camoflage" the last 20 feet of fly line by marking it up with olive and brown Prismatic waterproof markers. Not only does this eliminate (or at least reduce) the appearance of a solid line in the water, the tiger-stripe type markings let you gauge very accurate which part of the line is drifting faster or slower to help you make appropriate mends and achieve longer draft-diminished drifts. Dave McCarty

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Peter,   Thanks for the response.  I didn’t suppose that color of the line must make much difference or they wouldn’t offer so many color combinations.  It’s kind of funny that most fly tying instructions seem very specific about certain materials and colors and   if you don’t use the proper combination you won’t catch fish but you can plop  any color fly line on the water and it will be OK.  I guess the leader puts enough distance between fly and line so that the line is not noticed.   It seems like the bright orange line would be like a giant strike indicator and would come in handy for fishing nymphs. Thanks, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A fish looking up at a floating fly line will see it as a black outline against the sky regardless of what colour it is. Buy the colour that you will be able to see best in your fishing environment. I suspect you will now be inundated with people telling you otherwise, such is life! — Regards Peter

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter,   Thanks for the response.  I didn’t suppose that color of the line must make much difference or they wouldn’t offer so many color combinations.  It’s kind of funny that most fly tying instructions seem very specific about certain materials and colors and if you don’t use the proper combination you won’t catch fish but you can plop  any color fly line on the water and it will be OK.  I guess the leader puts enough distance between fly and line so that the line is not noticed.   It seems like the bright orange line would be like a giant strike indicator and would come in handy for fishing nymphs. Thanks, A fish looking up at a floating fly line will see it as a black outline against the sky regardless of what colour it is. Buy the colour that you will be able to see best in your fishing environment. I suspect you will now be inundated with people telling you otherwise, such is life! — Regards Peter

      It do, It do. So must be highly visible to the fisherman.                                                          John Popp                                                       in Sanford Fl.

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I have flyfished nearly daily (at least 6 months of the year) for the past 7 years or so, and part time for most of the last 30+ years. During that time I have worn out at least one line per season. I have tried many colors during that time, and experience tells me that color does make a difference. Two years ago, a hunting friend related to me how his bowhunting had improved dramatically after using special treatments to kill the Ultra Violet rays in his hunting clothes (both regular camo and hunter orange) claiming that game animals, many birds, and some fish react badly to clothing reflecting these light spectrums. Without getting too technical, their eyes have adopted and evolved over time to work in the very low light conditions of dawn and dusk when UV light is about all of the spectrum still present. Studies in the last 3 or 4 years have pretty well documented that these portions of the spectrum are far more visable to many other creatures than they are to humans. I read a good deal about it, and gave it a skeptical try. I was shocked to see my good camo glowing like crazy under a blacklight test. On the other hand, my Filson bright red & black checkered wool double mack cruiser(worn for about 100 years by some of the best guides in the world) was practically invisible. I learned that I could not guess before turning out the lights, which fabrics would glare bright purple(to me..) and which turned from colorful to dead black(no reflection). After spraying my clothes and a repeat of the tests under blacklight, the difference was astounding. But flick the light back on, and they look the same as they always have! The product I used is called U.V. Blocker. It’s made by the Atsko Company (Snow Seal, etc.) and they put out an excellent publication regarding this subject that is provided free with their Sport Wash/UV Blocker combo package (about $11 for both products and the book). They may even have a web site as it is a large company. I haven’t tried the UV blocker on my fly line, but I am tempted! Anyway, the increase in my hunting success was trmendous, and I no longer assume animals, birds, or fish see the same colors as we do. I now stay away from anything that flouresces under a black light. Unbeknowst to me, my forest color untreated camo was as visible to the game animals as a ripe tomatoe is to you on a bright green bush, especially at the most important hunting times of dawn and dusk. As a bow and rifle hunter for almost three months of the year, my field tests are not very scientific, but they are numerous, and I can assure you that there is a difference. The discoveries being made in these areas are still in their infancy. My vote would be to take a chance with the bright line if you are new to the sport and need the brightly colored line to aid in watching your backcast, mending, or detecting strikes. Otherwise, go as far away from the UV colors as you can get. Oddly enough, manufacturers of hunting camo for the most part still intentionally add UV brighteners to their fabrics even though they are aware (or should be)of the detrimental effect they have on game. Their product does appear slightly "brighter" to the human eye on the store shelf and I suppose they are more interested in selling it to you than in your success afterwards. It is possible that line manufacturers know the same thing. That bright orange sure looks better in the box than what I have on MY reel. Trust your initial observations regarding fly color being important… And yes, I am fully aware that people I respect and admire will disagree. All I can tell you about that is that I catch more trout than they do The Tortoise   Thanks for the response.  I didn’t suppose that color of the line must make much difference or they wouldn’t offer so many color combinations.  It’s kind of funny that most fly tying instructions seem very specific about certain materials and colors and if you don’t use the proper combination you won’t catch fish but you can plop  any color fly line on the water and it will be OK.

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– Regards Peter (Please also reply by email, my server "loses" posts. Remove nospam to email) 9:10:28 PM     Friday, April 24, 1998 I am a big fan of grey lines.  Not very good for photographs, awesome for fishing!

 Presumeably then the new breed of clear fly lines are going to put all the others out of business? I don’t doubt that grey/clear lines have their uses, as you say, in clear shallow water, but certainly for most of the fishing we do in the UK, no difference for the reasons I have already mentioned. That is a great topic!  Awesome, this is what the news groups are for,

I agree! learning.  The cat that said fly line color doesn’t matter is probably fooling himself.

No, see previous comments. I actually use an Airflo 7000 Glass which is almost translucent pale blue and generally fish a 18-20 ft leader. Why then am I sometimes outfished by people with bright orange hi viz lines? Probably because they can see delicate takes that I am missing. Very difficult to see gentle takes at 25 yards + with a pale line in ripple. The fly color, shot color and fly line along with the flash of a bright object over head of the fish all come to play while fly fishing.  Thanks for the tip on the camo, I plan to invest in some better fishing clothes, nee on the bright stuff I always say.  Stealthy presentation! So, I make a Internet magazine about small stream fly fishing.

Perfect conditions for light/clear lines.  I invite – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -anyone to make a article about this topic, I will post the article.  I am sure that there will be a tremendous debate over it… Thanks all, adam Small Stream Fly Fishing http://www.smallstreams.com

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Bob When you use a fly, it is generally IN the water with the trout which do have colour vision. Even dry flies need to be at least an approximation of the natural as they are open to very close inspection by the fish as you will know if you have watched them swim up and then swim away like I have!! Fly line on the other hand, is only seen in silhouette and not closely inspected, so no problem. — Regards Peter (Please also reply by email, my server "loses" posts. Remove nospam to email) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter,  Thanks for the response.  I didn’t suppose that color of the line must make much difference or they wouldn’t offer so many color combinations.  It’s kind of funny that most fly tying instructions seem very specific about certain materials and colors and if you don’t use the proper combination you won’t catch fish but you can plop  any color fly line on the water and it will be OK.  I guess the leader puts enough

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9:10:28 PM     Friday, April 24, 1998 I am a big fan of grey lines.  Not very good for photographs, awesome for fishing!   Lee’s Ferry, a tailwater in North Central Arizona is my test bed.  My fishing partner, new to Lee’s Ferry brought his BRIGHT HI VIS ORANGE fly line.  While dead drifting nymphs on a 9 foot leader in gin clear water, he just could not seem to catch trout.  I thought it was his technique.  I am catching fish left right and center, my buddy, zip.  He gets a big tangle in his leader, and starts cursing because he doesn’t have another one (second mistake).  I give him my rig to fish while I rig a new leader for him. First cast with my rig, he is into a big rainbow (grey line).  We laugh, so with his rig ready (ORANGE fly line) I start to fish it.  Nothing, not one fish!  He is now catching fish with my rig and I have the same leader and shot/fly combo and I am not catching with the ORANGE fly line. I agree with the fellow about the UV spectrum.  My favorite fishing times are in low light conditions, seems the fishing is better then, and that is the nature of things, UV spectrum development. That is a great topic!  Awesome, this is what the news groups are for, learning.  The cat that said fly line color doesn’t matter is probably fooling himself.  The fly color, shot color and fly line along with the flash of a bright object over head of the fish all come to play while fly fishing.  Thanks for the tip on the camo, I plan to invest in some better fishing clothes, nee on the bright stuff I always say.  Stealthy presentation! So, I make a Internet magazine about small stream fly fishing.  I invite anyone to make a article about this topic, I will post the article.  I am sure that there will be a tremendous debate over it… Thanks all, adam Small Stream Fly Fishing http://www.smallstreams.com

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Question:

I need anything you can dig up, and/or send me on fishing in and around Tucson AZ. I’m going out there on business from 4/22 to 4/29. My address is

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As far as I could tell, there is only one fly shop in Tucson.  That is Tight Lines Fly Fishing, it’s on Grant Road just west of Swan.  I was last there in January on business.  I didn’t get the chance to do any fly fishing around Tucson, but did get the chance to visit the shop.  I think that you’ll have to get out of town about 2 hours before you find any water. Strictly lakes.  You may be able to find some trout.  Check with the shop. I used to live in Tucson and had the most luck at Parker lake (near the border, southeast of Tucson) with spinning gear.  I heard that Pena Blanca Lake was fishing well in January.  It’s almost to Nogales off of I-19.  Good luck.  Kevin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I need anything you can dig up, and/or send me on fishing in and around Tucson AZ. I’m going out there on business from 4/22 to 4/29. My address is

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Question:

Would any of you out there in ff-land help me with an address, email, URL for an artist who has published ff art on the chat group and elsewhere.  He has done a number of pieces which are very interesting.  His last name begins with "Whitar….".  If you know of this artist, please send me his email address, WWW URL address, etc.

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Would any of you out there in ff-land help me with an address, email, URL for an artist who has published ff art on the chat group and elsewhere.  He has done a number of pieces which are very interesting.  His last name begins with "Whitar….".  If you know of this artist, please send me his email address, WWW URL address, etc.

The only person that I can think of that has a web site with flyfishing art is Mark Vinsel (sp?). John Fereira

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Question:

Currently seeking flyfishing photos and stories for publication and CD Rom Database, and for use in Calanders. Some selection will be used for pen and ink drawings. Paying $5.00 to $500.00 For guidelines and terms send $1.00 P&H to Down-n-The Holler Press 207 W. Sugarloaf Heber Springs, Ar. 72543

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Currently seeking flyfishing photos and stories for publication and CD Rom Database, and for use in Calanders. Some selection will be used for pen and ink drawings. Paying $5.00 to $500.00 For guidelines and terms send $1.00 P&H to Down-n-The Holler Press 207 W. Sugarloaf Heber Springs, Ar. 72543

You expect me to send you a dollar for your guidelines? Not too much chance of that happening. I can understand the need to cover expenses if snail mail was the only way, but what’s wrong with e-mail? If you send ME a dollar I will send you a copy of my terms and conditions for use of my photographs!:-) — Mike Robinson

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Currently seeking flyfishing photos and stories for publication and CD Rom Database, and for use in Calanders. Some selection will be used for pen and ink drawings. Paying $5.00 to $500.00 For guidelines and terms send $1.00 P&H to Down-n-The Holler Press 207 W. Sugarloaf Heber Springs, Ar. 72543

The last time I heard of an offer like this was when someone called me to tell me I’d just won a "fabulous prize".  All I had to do to claim said prize was to give him my credit card number.  <click!  End of conversation. If you’re guaranteeing payment of a minimum of $5.00 for each submission received I’ll be happy to pay you a buck for your guidelines and terms, *plus* I can guarantee a whole flood of stuff will soon arrive upon your doorstep.  If you’ll just guarantee *that* in writing my dollar bill will soon be winging its way to you.  :-) However, since I doubt you’re guaranteeing payment for any and all submissions I think that asking people to pay for your editorial guidelines and payment rate schedule is unlikely to produce much in the way of useful material.  In my dealings with publishers I’ve never had anyone ask for payment for their guidelines.  Perhaps you should reexamine your policy. — Bob Jarvis Mail addresses hacked to foil automailers! Remove ‘_spamless’ from reply address

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what a crock!!!

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Question:

When I hunt I do not wear camo. I do not use scent-b-gon washes for my clothes. I do not spray doe estrus everywhere, or play taped hen turkey calls on a portable deck. I DO, however, use a double-barreled shotgun which was manufactured in 1990, modern magnum loads, and electric socks.

Forgive my ignorance, but what are electric socks? Michael Smith

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Which begs a question of all who have been involved in the ’strike indicator’ controversy: What is it about fly fishing that appeals most to you? Those who relish the streamside strategy, the endless presentations into pools you just KNOW are full of trout, a cold cheese sandwich and a smoke for lunch amid the splendor of our natural settings…those are the ones I feel more akin to, and for whose sportsmen’s ethos I have the utmost respect. However, for those who consider a day without an entry into the log book of either a catch or a kill a wasted day, you are the ones who are, in my opinion, missing the point. You might as well be using dynamite on the fish and bazookas on deer. So, if I am mistaken in wanting to change the focus of this debate from hardware, then flame me at will. However, if in truth the true debate is found in the ethos of the sportsman, consider yourself well and weigh in with your position. W.E.S. Harman Virginia Commonwealth University Richmond, Virginia "L’ecrivain original n’est pas celui qui n’imite personne, mais celui que personne ne peut imiter." (The original writer is not he who refrains from imitating others, but he who can be imitated by none.) – Francois-Rene De Chateaubriand,  "Genie du Christianisme"

I’m sorry, but the issue should be not what technology is used, but rather the attitude and the intend with which it is employed.  The purist takes issue with the uninitiated to avoid having to share, as by sharing, in his mind, he is reduced. Peter

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When I hunt I do not wear camo. I do not use scent-b-gon washes for my clothes. I do not spray doe estrus everywhere, or play taped hen turkey calls on a portable deck. I DO, however, use a double-barreled shotgun which was manufactured in 1990, modern magnum loads, and electric socks. Forgive my ignorance, but what are electric socks? Michael Smith

You don’t want to know unless your sure your waders don’t leak. Mike

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -As an all-around outdoor sports kind of guy, I find myself in the company of hunters and fishermen quite a bit. I consider myself something of a traditionalist, largely due only to the fact that I find that technology often has the effect of taking the sport out of being a sportsman. When I hunt I do not wear camo. I do not use scent-b-gon washes for my clothes. I do not spray doe estrus everywhere, or play taped hen turkey calls on a portable deck. I DO, however, use a double-barreled shotgun which was manufactured in 1990, modern magnum loads, and electric socks. With fishing it is largely the same. I do not use strike indicators, ’stink baits’ or other fly-modifications, or barbed hooks. I DO use a graphite rod, DuPont line, and nylon leaders. The point of all of this is that, at a certain point, technology can and does take the sport out of being a sportsman. I use modern equipment because it is safer and more reliable than antiques. This I find easy to defend. However, the modifications, concoctions, and natural subterfuges which technological advancement makes available to us, I believe allows the worst of us to compensate for our lack of knowledge and patience, placing more importance on the kill than the hunt (or the landing over the actual fishing). Which begs a question of all who have been involved in the ’strike indicator’ controversy: What is it about fly fishing that appeals most to you? Those who relish the streamside strategy, the endless presentations into pools you just KNOW are full of trout, a cold cheese sandwich and a smoke for lunch amid the splendor of our natural settings…those are the ones I feel more akin to, and for whose sportsmen’s ethos I have the utmost respect. However, for those who consider a day without an entry into the log book of either a catch or a kill a wasted day, you are the ones who are, in my opinion, missing the point. You might as well be using dynamite on the fish and bazookas on deer. So, if I am mistaken in wanting to change the focus of this debate from hardware, then flame me at will. However, if in truth the true debate is found in the ethos of the sportsman, consider yourself well and weigh in with your position. W.E.S. Harman Virginia Commonwealth University Richmond, Virginia "L’ecrivain original n’est pas celui qui n’imite personne, mais celui que personne ne peut imiter." (The original writer is not he who refrains from imitating others, but he who can be imitated by none.) – Francois-Rene De Chateaubriand,  "Genie du Christianisme"

A fine question. I fish for a variety of reasons. The strongest is that I love the sea, I go there summer and winter with or without a rod, but fishing is what turns voyeurism into an actual connection for me. That connection can be made with a 12′ surf rod, or a dropline even, but I use a fly rod. I enjoy the uncertainty of fly fishing. When I began my friends all used spinning gear, and would probably catch 20 cod before I would catch anything on the fly. But once I’d catch something they would say "I can’t believe you actually caught something on that rod." This gave me a sense of accomplishment, a feeling of overcoming an obstacle. I like that. With my surf rod I can go out and spray casts all over the place and cover a tremendous amount of water, and I will catch a fish more often than not. With my fly rod I can only fish water within 100′ of me. Sometimes this water doesn’t look like it can hold anything, and when it does it is a happy surprise. It’s this surprise I like best in fishing, and the more I tip the odds in my favor the less of a surprise it is when I catch a fish. So for me technology diminishes the joy I find in fishing. That’s why when I’m in my boat I try never to look at the fishfinder. I look at the water depth so I can find changes, then turn it off. I think the purpose of many of the technological advances in sport are marketing driven. Make something difficult easier and you get more appeal to the masses. If it took 100 hours for every fish we caught, many would not fish, so for the industry it’s good business to make the sport easier. People who are new to the sport will not notice the difference, and will probably get as much enjoyment from it as I do. I would not enjoy using their methods, and they probably would not enjoy mine, and I think that’s OK. All this makes me think back to a bumper sticker I had in the 70s that said "Short Skiis Suck". In order to make skiing easier and more widely appealing, manufacturers put out these short, easy to skid turn skiis. All of a sudden any bozo could survive a difficult run. Those of us who were still on 205s, 210s etc. didn’t care for this, and didn’t care for the difference it made in the shape of a mogul; gnarly choppy bumps instead of smooth, rounded bumps. When I think of this it seems to me that in any sport major technology shifts will be despised by those who got there without them, while the newer people will wonder what’s the big deal. That most of what I like is the traditional and most of what I don’t like is technological just tells me that I’m getting on in years :-                                                 jc

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Michael: Electric socks keep ones feet warm while hunting in sub-zero temperatures. Well, they’d keep them warm at any time, but are especially useful when hunting in seriously cold weather. Might I add they are also useful for wearing under waders when you’re going to be in super-cold water. W.E.S. Harman Virginia Commonwealth University Richmond, Virginia "L’ecrivain original n’est pas celui qui n’imite personne, mais celui que personne ne peut imiter." (The original writer is not he who refrains from imitating others, but he who can be imitated by none.) – Francois-Rene De Chateaubriand,   "Genie du Christianisme" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I hunt I do not wear camo. I do not use scent-b-gon washes for my clothes. I do not spray doe estrus everywhere, or play taped hen turkey calls on a portable deck. I DO, however, use a double-barreled shotgun which was manufactured in 1990, modern magnum loads, and electric socks. Forgive my ignorance, but what are electric socks? Michael Smith

Response:

Forgive my ignorance, but what are electric socks? Michael Smith

Look at them as part of your outdoor potty training. They teach you to pee far from you standing position, and not to dribble. 8^) Bruce….

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …snip… The point of all of this is that, at a certain point, technology can and does take the sport out of being a sportsman. I use modern equipment because it is safer and more reliable than antiques. This I find easy to defend. However, the modifications, concoctions, and natural subterfuges which technological advancement makes available to us, I believe allows the worst of us to compensate for our lack of knowledge and patience, placing more importance on the kill than the hunt (or the landing over the actual fishing). Which begs a question of all who have been involved in the ’strike indicator’ controversy: What is it about fly fishing that appeals most to you? Those who relish the streamside strategy, the endless presentations into pools you just KNOW are full of trout, a cold cheese sandwich and a smoke for lunch amid the splendor of our natural settings…those are the ones I feel more akin to, and for whose sportsmen’s ethos I have the utmost respect. However, for those who consider a day without an entry into the log book of either a catch or a kill a wasted day, you are the ones who are, in my opinion, missing the point. You might as well be using dynamite on the fish and bazookas on deer.

This is in the same vein as my post from last week on "What is flyfishing to You: Was…". Its something that takes some meditation to answer with the convictions of truth. Your ruminations focusing on technology are well meant but the more I consider it the more I think they are perhaps misplaced. The reason is that what you describe relishing is the challenge of succeeding in a "fair chase" endeavor. This is not merely the harvesting (or R’ing) of the game but is the overcoming of obstacles barring your way to that success. Thus, for an accomplished sportsman excess technological "advantages" take the challenge and fun out of the endeavor. For those of lesser prowess, these technological advantages put them into the game closer to the same challenge level as the more accomplished individuals and can therefore experience similar joys when they succeed occasionally. As sporting prowess increases, the sportsman will often shift the balance in the "fair chase" equation back to a level that gives more challenge, thus voluntarily negating to some extent their increased skill level. This is often accomplished by going to more traditional and less technological methods (witness the resurgence of popularity in long bow archery for hunting to replace compound bows) or by setting and only seeking greater challenges for themselves (trophy bucks only, traveling to impenetrable areas to fish, targeting very selective trout, etc, etc). In the end, it is all relative to the individual. A sportsman, as I see it, certainly wants some success but not necessarily too much so that a challenge remains to be met. Where an individual falls on this scale can be shifted through technological innovation. It may be true to some extent that the ultimate purist has the least success in their sport (in terms of numbers). When I consider what flyfishing is to me I can roll over a litany of single experiences in my mind but none of them suffice as individual justifications to flyfish (or bowhunt, which falls in the same aesthetic category for me). When I look back at memories of flyfishing the conclusion that I have come to is that these endeavors are the closest thing to a striving for perfection that I may ever experience. What are the true memories at the end of a season? It is not the nice day catching many fish, one after another. It is not the various places gone, people seen, sunsets, bugs, gear, or water. These are part of the collage of experience that you can lovingly thumb through upon reflection but not the core. The core memories are the fleeting moments when the striving for perfection has been nearly achieved, the proper selection of gear for a promising spot never before considered or never properly fished before. A new insight and the laying in of the right fly on a lightly presented cast- just right. A sipping rise and a good fish on, well played and now in hand and for a moment in time everything has stopped and the universe has altered its course to revolve around that fleeting instant where judgement and skill (and perhaps some luck) have combined to meet the challenge that has been set. It may be the only fish of the day but it will be remembered long after the season ends and many more fish have been taken with less grace and spirit. So there flows the river Why. Jon (Am in total agreement on the "gotta get my game (fill in species here)" to have fun attitude described previously)

Response:

As an all-around outdoor sports kind of guy, I find myself in the company of hunters and fishermen quite a bit. I consider myself something of a traditionalist, largely due only to the fact that I find that technology often has the effect of taking the sport out of being a sportsman. When I hunt I do not wear camo. I do not use scent-b-gon washes for my clothes. I do not spray doe estrus everywhere, or play taped hen turkey calls on a portable deck. I DO, however, use a double-barreled shotgun which was manufactured in 1990, modern magnum loads, and electric socks. With fishing it is largely the same. I do not use strike indicators, ’stink baits’ or other fly-modifications, or barbed hooks. I DO use a graphite rod, DuPont line, and nylon leaders. The point of all of this is that, at a certain point, technology can and does take the sport out of being a sportsman. I use modern equipment because it is safer and more reliable than antiques. This I find easy to defend. However, the modifications, concoctions, and natural subterfuges which technological advancement makes available to us, I believe allows the worst of us to compensate for our lack of knowledge and patience, placing more importance on the kill than the hunt (or the landing over the actual fishing). Which begs a question of all who have been involved in the ’strike indicator’ controversy: What is it about fly fishing that appeals most to you? Those who relish the streamside strategy, the endless presentations into pools you just KNOW are full of trout, a cold cheese sandwich and a smoke for lunch amid the splendor of our natural settings…those are the ones I feel more akin to, and for whose sportsmen’s ethos I have the utmost respect. However, for those who consider a day without an entry into the log book of either a catch or a kill a wasted day, you are the ones who are, in my opinion, missing the point. You might as well be using dynamite on the fish and bazookas on deer. So, if I am mistaken in wanting to change the focus of this debate from hardware, then flame me at will. However, if in truth the true debate is found in the ethos of the sportsman, consider yourself well and weigh in with your position. W.E.S. Harman Virginia Commonwealth University Richmond, Virginia "L’ecrivain original n’est pas celui qui n’imite personne, mais celui que personne ne peut imiter." (The original writer is not he who refrains from imitating others, but he who can be imitated by none.) – Francois-Rene De Chateaubriand,   "Genie du Christianisme"

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Question:

thinking of relocating to the charlotte, nc area would like info on the flyfishing in the area or general region, preferances are trout!Willing and able to backpack in,info on this also. thanks much!!

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Join the local TU group (rockey river).  they have all the info you will need. rmurrell

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thinking of relocating to the charlotte, nc area would like info on the flyfishing in the area or general region, preferances are trout!Willing and able to backpack in,info on this also. thanks much!!

Greetings:         I grew up near Charlotte, and went to college there.  You are about 1.5-2 hrs drive from deep mountains (Blue Ridge Parkway, etc.), coming from the north side of the city.  There are a lot of small streams within that 2 hr drive as I recall, and I know some are trout water.  It has been years though since I lived there, and I never did any flyfishing then.  Generally though, the state legislature has been really strong advocates of water quality, trout stocking, and the like.  So you should find some great trout.  Also, for practice, there is a huge reservoir (approx. 600 miles of shoreline) about 30 minutes north of the city, with great panfish and bass.  Also, there are a lot of smaller lakes in the city or surrounding areas, so practice waters will abound.  Good luck. Dan Johnson  

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Question:

  Does anyone have info on the Big Hole in July . I have to drop the Wife off in Salmon, ID. so I thought I would try fishing the Wisdom area. I have never been in that part of Montana and could use some help, where to stay , fish etc. We will be coming from  Ennis, Mt.    Thanks    Harry

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  Does anyone have info on the Big Hole in July .

Harry: Call and book a trip with Dick Sharon at Fishing Headquarters in Dillon, MT.  You can get the number from information–I believe the area code is 406.  He’s a great guide, and you will love the Big Hole. dcook

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 Does anyone have info on the Big Hole in July . I have to drop the Wife off in Salmon, ID. so I thought I would try fishing the Wisdom area. I have never been in that part of Montana and could use some help, where to stay , fish etc. We will be coming from  Ennis, Mt.   Thanks   Harry

Hi Harry, If you are coming through Ennis, don’t overlook the Madison River. I like the section below Ennis where it breaks into channels before it goes into Ennis Lake. Regarding the Big Hole: There are plenty of motels, etc in Wisdom, Wise River, and Melrose if that is your interest. If you plan on camping, you can do so at most (not all) Montana state fishing access points. Good Luck. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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