Question:

And then, if you’re up to it, note the material preceding the quote that begins "I think its extremely bad form…". That’s "it’s," not "its." "It’s" is a contraction of "it is." That’s what I meant and that’s what I wrote. I didn’t intend the possessive "its." Most well educated native speakers know the difference. If you’re going to quote me, please quote me correctly, including standard punctuation as it apppears in the original material. If I get it wrong then please feel free to correct me, with an appropriate "[sic]" notation.

Whatta pputz. Wolfgang

Response:

That’s a great idea, George. This could be fun. I’m thinking of a series of stories describing in excruciating detail every cast, every stream pocket, and every one of the gourmet meals we enjoyed in four days.   :^) By the way, most of our fish were considerably larger than the fish I described out of that particular pool. If merely catching large fish was the objective we would have fished elsewhere. Bob

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – God, people?!  How much milage can you milk out of a 3 inch fish conclave? One more post and you gents can apply to the Guiness clan. GG

Response:

God, people?!  How much milage can you milk out of a 3 inch fish conclave? One more post and you gents can apply to the Guiness clan. GG George, if you have nothing nice to say about the Eastern ‘Claves, then BLOW ME!

Come now (heh heh!).  I’ve caught plenty of 3" fish out west too…..

Response:

God, people?!  How much milage can you milk out of a 3 inch fish conclave? One more post and you gents can apply to the Guiness clan. GG George, if you have nothing nice to say about the Eastern ‘Claves, then BLOW ME!

I think it’s extremely bad form for someone from the West to bad-mouth Eastern Claves. And vice versa.

Response:

rw writes: I think it’s extremely bad form for someone from the West to bad-mouth Eastern Claves. And vice versa.

Yep.  Mainly because you get your litotes in a bunch.

Response:

rw writes: I think it’s extremely bad form for someone from the West to bad-mouth Eastern Claves. And vice versa. Yep.  Mainly because you get your litotes in a bunch.

ROFLMAO!!!! Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

I think it’s extremely bad form for someone from the West to bad-mouth Eastern Claves. And vice versa.

I didn’t say anything about ‘claves.  I just told cranky old fart out West to …..you know. Op

Response:

rw writes: I think it’s extremely bad form for someone from the West to bad-mouth Eastern Claves. And vice versa. Yep.  Mainly because you get your litotes in a bunch.

OK, Dave. You seem to think it’s just fine for an Easterner to bad-mouth Western Claves. Go at it.

Response:

rw writes: rw writes: I think it’s extremely bad form for someone from the West to bad-mouth Eastern Claves. And vice versa. Yep.  Mainly because you get your litotes in a bunch. OK, Dave. You seem to think it’s just fine for an Easterner to bad-mouth Western Claves. Go at it.

Where did I say that, rw?  Never said it.  You continue to put words in my mouth.  Oh, I get it.  It’s a figure of speech and a form of rhetoric called "lies."  Look it up.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – rw writes: rw writes: I think it’s extremely bad form for someone from the West to bad-mouth Eastern Claves. And vice versa. Yep.  Mainly because you get your litotes in a bunch. OK, Dave. You seem to think it’s just fine for an Easterner to bad-mouth Western Claves. Go at it. Where did I say that, rw?  Never said it.  You continue to put words in my mouth.  Oh, I get it.  It’s a figure of speech and a form of rhetoric called "lies."  Look it up.

Dave, you need to go back and reread what you wrote. Willi

Response:

rw writes: OK, Dave. You seem to think it’s just fine for an Easterner to bad-mouth Western Claves. Go at it. Where did I say that, rw?  Never said it.  You continue to put words in my mouth.  Oh, I get it.  It’s a figure of speech and a form of rhetoric called "lies."  Look it up.

You were (Must I say it?) whining that the Western Claves are not up to the camadraderie standards of the Eastern Claves. That came at a considerable surprise to me, and I suspect also to the several close friends I’ve made at the Western Claves. Before you get all teary-eyed about not having been able to fish with Warren at HF, let me remind you, once again, that Warren piloted the Gink boat, in which you wouldn’t have been caught dead.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – rw writes: rw writes: I think it’s extremely bad form for someone from the West to bad-mouth Eastern Claves. And vice versa. Yep.  Mainly because you get your litotes in a bunch. OK, Dave. You seem to think it’s just fine for an Easterner to bad-mouth Western Claves. Go at it. Where did I say that, rw?  Never said it.  You continue to put words in my mouth.  Oh, I get it.  It’s a figure of speech and a form of rhetoric called "lies."  Look it up. Dave, you need to go back and reread what you wrote. Willi

Read back up four posts before yours in the quoted material and see if you can figure out who decided the shit needed to be stirred one more time.  If you do it right, there will be no surprise.  And then, if you’re up to it, note the material preceding the quote that begins "I think its extremely bad form…". Well damn, it looks for all the world like a continuation of a long running tete a tete, don’t it?  But, if you take the time (and you can figure it out) you may also note that Stevie’s typical shithead comment did NOT come in response to anything Dave said (as he deliberately implied by his abuse of usenet convention), but instead followed a comment by Mark.  THEN, if you’re head hasn’t started throbbing too badly, you might want to follow what goes on here day in and day out, in which case you will possibly discover that there is a pattern here. Care to guess? Wolfgang

Response:

  you might want to follow what goes on here day in and day out, in which case you will possibly discover that there is a pattern here. Care to guess?

That RW puts a bug up your butt and you jump on anything RW says? Willi

Response:

 you might want to follow what goes on here day in and day out, in which case you will possibly discover that there is a pattern here. Care to guess? That RW puts a bug up your butt and you jump on anything RW says?

Bingo!

Response:

And then, if you’re up to it, note the material preceding the quote that begins "I think its extremely bad form…".

That’s "it’s," not "its." "It’s" is a contraction of "it is." That’s what I meant and that’s what I wrote. I didn’t intend the possessive "its." Most well educated native speakers know the difference. If you’re going to quote me, please quote me correctly, including standard punctuation as it apppears in the original material. If I get it wrong then please feel free to correct me, with an appropriate "[sic]" notation.

Response:

  You were (Must I say it?) whining that the Western Claves are not up to the camadraderie standards of the Eastern Claves. That came at a considerable surprise to me, and I suspect also to the several close friends I’ve made at the Western Claves. Before you get all teary-eyed about not having been able to fish with Warren at HF, let me remind you, once again, that Warren piloted the Gink boat, in which you wouldn’t have been caught dead.

I have to admit with pride R.W. that you certainly are a talented fly fisherman catching more fish than anyone.  Each day, you were "the man".  I had a lot of fun with you and wish to mention the Henry’s Fork Western Conclave was well worth the effort. It was a pleasure fishing with you r.w. Everyone should know Warren and you taught me how to fish a dropper with a bobber (WHOOPS! I mean) "indicator" which is something I’ve never done before.  However; now that we are home chasing Steelhead and other "critters of the deep" I’m back to the single nymphing with no indicators but the fly line.  Incidently, the steelhead fishing this year has been good.  Very good, in fact. Warren is an excellent guide.  He knows those rivers as well as me and probably better now.  Regardless, we have to do this again sometime r.w. Finally, Dave LaCourse?  You’re always welcome in the Gink Drift Boat, dead or alive.  There was a hatched buried at this Western Conclave and for that alone, I’m thankful.  There IS MORE to these get togethers than what meets the eye.  I had a great time. That’s for sure. GeorgeG.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You were (Must I say it?) whining that the Western Claves are not up to the camadraderie standards of the Eastern Claves. That came at a considerable surprise to me, and I suspect also to the several close friends I’ve made at the Western Claves. Before you get all teary-eyed about not having been able to fish with Warren at HF, let me remind you, once again, that Warren piloted the Gink boat, in which you wouldn’t have been caught dead. I have to admit with pride R.W. that you certainly are a talented fly fisherman catching more fish than anyone.  Each day, you were "the man". I had a lot of fun with you and wish to mention the Henry’s Fork Western Conclave was well worth the effort. It was a pleasure fishing with you r.w. Everyone should know Warren and you taught me how to fish a dropper with a bobber (WHOOPS! I mean) "indicator" which is something I’ve never done before.  However; now that we are home chasing Steelhead and other "critters of the deep" I’m back to the single nymphing with no indicators but the fly line.  Incidently, the steelhead fishing this year has been good.  Very good, in fact. Warren is an excellent guide.  He knows those rivers as well as me and probably better now.  Regardless, we have to do this again sometime r.w. Finally, Dave LaCourse?  You’re always welcome in the Gink Drift Boat, dead or alive.  There was a hatched (HATCHET! dang it.) buried at this Western

Conclave and for that – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – alone, I’m thankful.  There IS MORE to these get togethers than what meets the eye.  I had a great time. That’s for sure. GeorgeG.

Response:

I have to admit with pride R.W. that you certainly are a talented fly fisherman catching more fish than anyone.  Each day, you were "the man".  

That’s total bullshit, but I will tell you one thing from my heart. You showed up at the HF Clave. I didn’t think you would, but you did. Another thing, George, is that you deserve a lot of credit for lending your drift boat to Warren. That was generous. It’s helped him a lot. Now please, George, don’t start acting like an asshole on ROFF. We don’t need it. We have plenty of that.

Response:

  you might want to follow what goes on here day in and day out, in which case you will possibly discover that there is a pattern here. Care to guess? That RW puts a bug up your butt and you jump on anything RW says?  

Hm…..don’t understand?…..or just won’t deal with it?  Well, it hardly matters does it?   Ta ta. Wolfgang

Response:

When last we met our fearsome threesome, they were standing on Owl Creek Bridge – oops, make that bridge no. 2 across Hazel Creek. Wolfie was doing his chimney routine and both Messrs. Miller and Siebeneich had discovered that the only person with drinking water was your obedient servant. I generously gave them a full Platypus bag and they drank copiously of its contents. Neither of them asked why I didn’t drink any of the same stuff and they didn’t say anything about its taste. Nevertheless, we continued the march up to the Sawdust Pile campground beyond the third bridge where we stopped again. I reconnoitered the stream for a few minutes and came back to see Jeffie and Wolfie talking to a girl. Aha! The pulchritudinous Lana, thought I, as I walked over to make her acquaintance. Of course, upon seeing me she quickly felt the need to retrace her steps back downstream. Obviously a girl of great self-discipline. We continued on to the Bone Valley campsite about 5.7 miles from the lake. There we established the Bone Valley Villa that we would use for the next two nights. We set up the camp. Miller had a one-man tent, and Wolfgang and I shared Wolfgang’s palatial abode. Then each of us went different directions – Jeffie making his way upstream on Hazel Creek, Wolfie headed downstream to work his way back up Hazel, while I began working my way up Bone Valley Creek. Caught a couple of small parr-marked rainbows out of one pool but nothing larger than about three inches. Wolfie met me a little ways up stream. He had a lot more success than I was having, and it was interesting just watching him cast. We fished a couple of hundred yards up Bone Valley before returning to the Villa in time for cocktails before dinner. More to come . . . — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

Response:

God, people?!  How much milage can you milk out of a 3 inch fish conclave? One more post and you gents can apply to the Guiness clan. GG

Response:

God, people?!  How much milage can you milk out of a 3 inch fish conclave? One more post and you gents can apply to the Guiness clan. GG

George, if you have nothing nice to say about the Eastern ‘Claves, then BLOW ME! Op

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When last we met our fearsome threesome, they were standing on Owl Creek Bridge – oops, make that bridge no. 2 across Hazel Creek. Wolfie was doing his chimney routine and both Messrs. Miller and Siebeneich had discovered that the only person with drinking water was your obedient servant. I generously gave them a full Platypus bag and they drank copiously of its contents. Neither of them asked why I didn’t drink any of the same stuff and they didn’t say anything about its taste. Nevertheless, we continued the march up to the Sawdust Pile campground beyond the third bridge where we stopped again. I reconnoitered the stream for a few minutes and came back to see Jeffie and Wolfie talking to a girl. Aha! The pulchritudinous Lana, thought I, as I walked over to make her acquaintance. Of course, upon seeing me she quickly felt the need to retrace her steps back downstream. Obviously a girl of great self-discipline. We continued on to the Bone Valley campsite about 5.7 miles from the lake. There we established the Bone Valley Villa that we would use for the next two nights. We set up the camp. Miller had a one-man tent, and Wolfgang and I shared Wolfgang’s palatial abode. Then each of us went different directions – Jeffie making his way upstream on Hazel Creek, Wolfie headed downstream to work his way back up Hazel, while I began working my way up Bone Valley Creek. Caught a couple of small parr-marked rainbows out of one pool but nothing larger than about three inches. Wolfie met me a little ways up stream. He had a lot more success than I was having, and it was interesting just watching him cast. We fished a couple of hundred yards up Bone Valley before returning to the Villa in time for cocktails before dinner. More to come . . .

Hm…….well Bob, I think I still like my version better for raw excitement and suspense…….but I’ll grant you’ve got the edge in the verifiable historical detail department.       Carry on. Wolfgang who reserves the right to add color commentary from time to time.

Response:

"Wolfgang Siebeneich" wrote Hm…….well Bob, I think I still like my version better for raw excitement and suspense…….but I’ll grant you’ve got the edge in the verifiable historical detail department.       Carry on. Wolfgang who reserves the right to add color commentary from time to time.

Damn. If I’d known I was committing "verifiable historical detail" I’d have thought twice. After all, the real sense of the trip is not in the verifiable historical detail. It’s the wisps of vapor drifting herpetologically – yes, dammit, herpetologically – through the trees. Bob

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Wolfgang Siebeneich" wrote Hm…….well Bob, I think I still like my version better for raw excitement and suspense…….but I’ll grant you’ve got the edge in the verifiable historical detail department.       Carry on. Wolfgang who reserves the right to add color commentary from time to time. Damn. If I’d known I was committing "verifiable historical detail" I’d have thought twice. After all, the real sense of the trip is not in the verifiable historical detail. It’s the wisps of vapor drifting herpetologically – yes, dammit, herpetologically – through the trees. Bob

Yes……but…..still, tis the information age and historians as yet will merely be another turgid footnote. Wolfgang thus is it ever for those who serve the muse…….lana…….where art thou?      :(

Response:

Question:

Hmm…..Do you need a new best friend, Mr. Cooke? /daytripper ("Have Rod, Will Travel"

hey Trip we got a chalk stream in Maine here, I’ve never been up but for you old buddy, I’d make the trip. Flyfish

Response:

Hmm…..Do you need a new best friend, Mr. Cooke? /daytripper ("Have Rod, Will Travel" hey Trip we got a chalk stream in Maine here, I’ve never been up but for you old buddy, I’d make the trip. Flyfish

Just make sure that there is no climb involved, especially no climb with speed bumps liberally placed along the trail! Op

Response:

This is not the case where I fish, and obviously not the case for wild fish in loughs, where you fish. No – usually chalkstreams – Itchen, Test, Wylie and Avon. Not easy water.

My error. I would have thought the chalkstream fish were fairly "educated" as well. ( I have fished the Costa Beck a few times), but I didn

Question:

Mike,   I think I was in Charlotte, coming from Miami heading for Dayton….no wait a minute I was in Miami. Anyhow, transferred in Charlotte and left for Dayton. Anyhow, when I left Miami, I could see my bags and rod case on the cart. The plane was full and my bags and rod case did not get loaded. they were left in Miami. My bags and rod case were on the turnstile when I got to Dayton. This causes a pain between my ears which I do not understand. john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam A bunch of guys from my club going down to Baja post 9/11 were not allowed to take hooks in their carryon going down. They were not allowed to even carry rods on board coming back. I have done quite a bit of international traveling with scuba gear which was way to much to carry on. I have had only one incident of a bag being delayed. There are a couple of things that I am sure help. Go for the easily identifiable luggage that doesn’t advertise that there is expensive sports equipment inside. Know the three letter airport code of your destination and make sure that is on the tag that is attached when you check in. Make sure the tag is attached to something secure on the luggage. Put your name and address inside as well as on the tag you are required to have outside. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971

Response:

Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, I’ve never lost luggage on an international flight, so I’d check my bags – but I’d carry at least one rod and reel on just in case it’s the first time. <g They can’t take off with your bags without you on the plane these days, either. Or, you could try to sneak them on and take the chance of being held up in security while your plane does take off sans you. FWIW

Um…Right now, I’d recommend doing absolutely nothing that gives very jumpy airport security crews reason to give one any "special attention". A member of my design team was virtually strip-searched yesterday in Denver while changing planes on his way to San Jose, apparently the unlucky winner of a random selection process… /daytripper (He decidedly did not enjoy the experience)

Response:

I saw a demonstration once on the use of everyday items as weapons.  I think the newspaper is actually deadlier than the Bic razor!!

Perhaps it’s not wise to publicize even the possibility in a public forum, but there’s some evidence that a properly cured pair of waders, carried aboard in a hermetically sealed bag, then opened once aloft, could render the entire cabin unconscious.   JR

Response:

… there’s some evidence that a properly cured pair of waders, carried aboard in a hermetically sealed bag, then opened once aloft, could render the entire cabin unconscious.

I thought Waldo had his old waders carted off to a Superfund Site. — Ken Fortenberry- pray that bin Laden never gets his hands on Waldo’s waders

Response:

Several years ago my company was working on a project in Venezuela.  Fed-X subcontracts delivery.  It took two weeks for them to get a package there.  DHL was much better, however customs in Venezuela is always a crap shoot. Things do not understand drive them nuts.   Put the hooks/flys in checked baggage if you really want any chance of them being there with you.  Have a great trip. Chuck W. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’ve had better luck with DHL-Intenational.  Cheaper than UPS generally, and simpler customs clearance issues. — Jim —      http://www.westernsportshop.com Western Sport Shop Discussion forums –      http://www.westernsportshop.com/forums.html Western Sport Shop Email Newsletter Signup –      http://lists.westernsportshop.com/mailman/listinfo/wss-newsletter

Response:

Thanks anyway.

It’s your call. I’ve taken 3 international trips since 9/11 and I would take my chances with checked baggage over trying to carry anything sharp on the plane. — Charlie…

Response:

I’ve made my decision, I’m checking the hooks.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks anyway. It’s your call. I’ve taken 3 international trips since 9/11 and I would take my chances with checked baggage over trying to carry anything sharp on the plane. — Charlie…

Response:

I’ve made my decision, I’m checking the hooks.

Best of luck both traveling and fishing! — Charlie…

Response:

I saw a demonstration once on the use of everyday items as weapons.  I think the newspaper is actually deadlier than the Bic razor!!   Scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Remember, the airline people are not the screeners….Chances are the person you spoke to was thinking more along the lines of a hook for a baleen whale, We had a good customer who attempted to board a plane with a disposable BIC razor in his carry-on.  Thankfully, the screeners stopped him cold, taking his weapon.  Once through the security checkpoint, he went into the newstand and bought a newspaper and a 3-pack of BIC disposable razors…. ;^) Until things get more sane, I’d probably ship ‘em down early, or pack some into your checked luggage – maybe both… — Jim

Response:

Good idea, but the place I’m going to is really out of the way, and I’ve heard that stuff often doesn’t get there.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you have a contact point in Venezuela like an outfitter or lodge you could arrange to have Fed-x or UPS worldwide to ship your flies down in advance and have them waiting for you. Kinda pricey, but if you’re spending that kind of money to go down there, it might be just another vacation related expense. Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam

Response:

I’ve never lost any stuff on an international flight, either (probably because I carry on).  But, during my last trip to Venezuela, one of the folks at the camp didn’t get his stuff until the 7th day of a 9 day stay. He’d been going done there for 10 years, but shit is bound to happen. Thanks anyway.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, I’ve never lost luggage on an international flight, so I’d check my bags – but I’d carry at least one rod and reel on just in case it’s the first time. <g They can’t take off with your bags without you on the plane these days, either. Or, you could try to sneak them on and take the chance of being held up in security while your plane does take off sans you. FWIW — Charlie…

Response:

If you have a contact point in Venezuela like an outfitter or lodge you could arrange to have Fed-x or UPS worldwide to ship your flies down in advance and have them waiting for you. Kinda pricey, but if you’re spending that kind of money to go down there, it might be just another vacation related expense.

We’ve had better luck with DHL-Intenational.  Cheaper than UPS generally, and simpler customs clearance issues. — Jim —      http://www.westernsportshop.com Western Sport Shop Discussion forums –      http://www.westernsportshop.com/forums.html Western Sport Shop Email Newsletter Signup –      http://lists.westernsportshop.com/mailman/listinfo/wss-newsletter

Response:

Remember, the airline people are not the screeners….Chances are the person you spoke to was thinking more along the lines of a hook for a baleen whale,

We had a good customer who attempted to board a plane with a disposable BIC razor in his carry-on.  Thankfully, the screeners stopped him cold, taking his weapon.  Once through the security checkpoint, he went into the newstand and bought a newspaper and a 3-pack of BIC disposable razors…. ;^) Until things get more sane, I’d probably ship ‘em down early, or pack some into your checked luggage – maybe both… — Jim —      http://www.westernsportshop.com Western Sport Shop Discussion forums –      http://www.westernsportshop.com/forums.html Western Sport Shop Email Newsletter Signup –      http://lists.westernsportshop.com/mailman/listinfo/wss-newsletter

Response:

Post 9/11 I went from West Palm Beach-Houston-South padre Isl for red fish. As my guide was supplying the flies, I just took 2 travel rod in aluminum tubes, and my gear bag (sans flies and knives).  However, I was stopped at the x-ray machine and my 51/2" forceps were confiscated.  Luckily I had time to bring them to the check-in counter and they kept them until I got back. I think that the bottom line is that we are all at the mercy of the examiners and not the airlines.  What may be one guy’s interpretation of a weapon, may be another guy’s harmless nose hair picker.  I think that I’ll just check the flies in a non-descript bag and hope they arrive in Caracas with me. By the way, I’m going back to a Peacock bass camp on the banks of the Cinaruco River (about 300 miles south of Caracas).  Let me highly recommend this destination as a place to go if you want a lot of action with al very tough fish.  My first time there, last year in January, I met up with 3 other fly rodders and for 9 days we boated between 20 and 59 fish/each per day.  They averaged around 5#, and I was lucky to catch the biggest of the trip, a 10 and 12 pounded.  This is not the Lake Guri deal.  It is more rustic, the food is good-OK, drinks on the house, there are all three species of peacocks int he water, the biggest goes to around 16-17# (the only negative for those who want the bigger fish).  I normally go to the Caribbean for sight fishing, which I will continue to do, but the action here was so good that I had to do it again.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam A bunch of guys from my club going down to Baja post 9/11 were not allowed to take hooks in their carryon going down. They were not allowed to even carry rods on board coming back. I have done quite a bit of international traveling with scuba gear which was way to much to carry on. I have had only one incident of a bag being delayed. There are a couple of things that I am sure help. Go for the easily identifiable luggage that doesn’t advertise that there is expensive sports equipment inside. Know the three letter airport code of your destination and make sure that is on the tag that is attached when you check in. Make sure the tag is attached to something secure on the luggage. Put your name and address inside as well as on the tag you are required to have outside. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971

Response:

Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam

Response:

If you have a contact point in Venezuela like an outfitter or lodge you could arrange to have Fed-x or UPS worldwide to ship your flies down in advance and have them waiting for you. Kinda pricey, but if you’re spending that kind of money to go down there, it might be just another vacation related expense.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam

Response:

Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks,

I’ve never lost luggage on an international flight, so I’d check my bags – but I’d carry at least one rod and reel on just in case it’s the first time. <g They can’t take off with your bags without you on the plane these days, either. Or, you could try to sneak them on and take the chance of being held up in security while your plane does take off sans you. FWIW — Charlie…

Response:

Adam, let me ask exactly where you are going… I’ve had no problems heading south, but the last time was before 9-11. Remember, the airline people are not the screeners….Chances are the person you spoke to was thinking more along the lines of a hook for a baleen whale, or maybe one of the narwhale things that made the mermaid legends.  Which, considering what the mores of society have been in the none to recent past and present, doesn’t really surprise me that there might have been a sexual attraction. I AM surprised that there was no viable offspring. john You could always send a package to the guide a couple of weeks before. They generally have good connections in town.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam

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Going down to Venezuela for peacock bass in January, and I’m planning on taking all my gear in one carry-on bag (plus two travel rod tubes), but the airline tells me NO HOOKS, which means no flies.  Now, when I travel to fishing destinations, I never check anything, you guys know why.  Any suggestions on how to overcome the chances of not having any flies when I get there?  Thanks, Adam

A bunch of guys from my club going down to Baja post 9/11 were not allowed to take hooks in their carryon going down. They were not allowed to even carry rods on board coming back. I have done quite a bit of international traveling with scuba gear which was way to much to carry on. I have had only one incident of a bag being delayed. There are a couple of things that I am sure help. Go for the easily identifiable luggage that doesn’t advertise that there is expensive sports equipment inside. Know the three letter airport code of your destination and make sure that is on the tag that is attached when you check in. Make sure the tag is attached to something secure on the luggage. Put your name and address inside as well as on the tag you are required to have outside. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971          

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Question:

Something like this happened to me. As I am an avis fly fisherman for atlantic salmon and sea trout, I used to fish a remote strech of a river. Over the years I discovered many spots that regularily hold sea trouts but does not look appealing to fish so the majority of other fisherman pass over them without stopping. I teached a coworker how to fly fish and bring him there with me many time the first years together so he also knew my best spots. The year after he bring one of his friend and another one who bring another one…  This gave me a good lesson.When you want a secret to stay secret, keep it for you. — Carol Dugas Caplan Quebec

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Over the years I discovered many spots that regularily hold sea trouts but does not look appealing to fish so the majority of other fisherman pass over them without stopping.

In what way did it look unappealing?  What first made you decide to fish there? Mu

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Question:

Forgive me if this has been covered before, but….  what’s the shelf life of middle and premium grade fly lines (e.g., Cortland 333, Scientific Anglers Ultra 3)?  Do any of the chemical treatments in or on the line deteriorate from exposure to air, since the boxes they come in aren’t air tight?  I’m asking (obviously) because an area dealer has very good prices on old stock of Ultra 3 (original packaging — different from what it’s currently packaged in) and some other lines. Thanks very much for any insight. G. Weaver

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Forgive me if this has been covered before, but….  what’s the shelf life of middle and premium grade fly lines (e.g., Cortland 333, Scientific Anglers Ultra 3)?  Do any of the chemical treatments in or on the line deteriorate from exposure to air, since the boxes they come in aren’t air tight?  I’m asking (obviously) because an area dealer has very good prices on old stock of Ultra 3 (original packaging — different from what it’s currently packaged in) and some other lines. Thanks very much for any insight. G. Weaver

This is an interesting question – may have missed it, but don’t recall that it’s been posed before.  No scientific or experience basis to make this statement, but I would say that if the line is stored out of the sun and away from excessive heat or cold, it ought to be in pretty good shape even after a number of years in storage. Mark Faulkner

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Forgive me if this has been covered before, but….  what’s the shelf life of middle and premium grade fly lines (e.g., Cortland 333, Scientific Anglers Ultra 3)?

I don’t know about "premium grade," but a greart many years ago, when I was a a grad student (that was so long ago I’m now retired), I bought an HDH floating line from Herter’s for about three bucks. I used it for twenty or twenty five years, and it was still floating. As an off-topic but perhaps relevant aside:  I  had the good fortune to do some fishing and hunting with Ed Zern back in the 1960s.  In his other life he was Creative Director of Geyer, Morey, Madden and Ballard, a big-time New York ad agency. I asked him about those strange greenish plastic collars on his two Labs.  He said "Oh, those are some experimental flea collars one of our clients gave me to try out.  They’ve been keeping fleas off my Labs for at least two years.  I’m sure they have someone working on that problem." Sure enough.  When flea collars appeared on the market a bit later, they were good for a couple of months. Might the same be true for fly lines? vince norris  Do any of the chemical treatments in or on – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -the line deteriorate from exposure to air, since the boxes they come in aren’t air tight?  I’m asking (obviously) because an area dealer has very good prices on old stock of Ultra 3 (original packaging — different from what it’s currently packaged in) and some other lines. Thanks very much for any insight. G. Weaver

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UV light and heat are the killers if I understand things correctly.  The lines also loose their slick finish over time because there is friction from the guides.  My guess is that the lines should be fine as long as they haven’t been sitting next to a heater or left in the sun for a long time. << Do any of the chemical treatments in or on the line deteriorate from exposure to air, since the boxes they come in aren’t air tight?  I’m asking (obviously) because an area dealer has very good prices on old stock of Ultra 3 (original packaging — different from what it’s currently packaged in) and some other lines. Thanks very much for any insight. G. Weaver

  <<  I bought an HDH floating line from Herter’s for about three bucks. I used it for twenty or twenty five years, and it was still floating. I guess I am brutal on my fly lines.  I can get a sinking line to last for a lot of years but I kill my dry lines within about two years or less.  That is based on fishing 60+ days per year but I still tear through them fast. Mike

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I have a fair collection of lines (more than I ever have mounted on reels). My solution has been to always put them away clean – coiled and tied with pipe cleaners – and in ziplock bags with all the air sucked out.  Figure that this will minimize effects of atmospheric polutants such as ozone. Keep them in dark color plastic tub (no light), and in a cool place.  Seems to have worked although I don’t have a control on this experement.  I keep even new lines in ziplock bags – cheap and figure it can’t hurt. air, since the boxes they come in – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -aren’t air tight?  I’m asking (obviously) because an area dealer has very good prices on old stock of Ultra 3 (original packaging — different from what it’s currently packaged in) and some other lines. Thanks very much for any insight. G. Weaver

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Hi Vince, I have seen them 20 years old and still OK. Probably not used much? I have also seen some ‘Commando Anglers’ wear out a line in a season. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop http://www.kiene.com <snip I don’t know about "premium grade," but a greart many years ago, when – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was a a grad student (that was so long ago I’m now retired), I bought an HDH floating line from Herter’s for about three bucks. I used it for twenty or twenty five years, and it was still floating. vince norris  Do any of the chemical treatments in or on the line deteriorate from exposure to air, since the boxes they come in aren’t air tight?  I’m asking (obviously) because an area dealer has very good prices on old stock of Ultra 3 (original packaging — different from what it’s currently packaged in) and some other lines. Thanks very much for any insight. G. Weaver

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Keep them clean and conditioned, and even the $10 specials from walmart will last a long time. eventually they will phyisically wear out, but that takes a lot of fishing. by then, you’ll feel like you’ve *earned* a new line. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

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Question:

Dumb question: Does anyone know where I can find stainless steel flagpole mounts in 3/4" dia.?  I can only find stainless in 1" and above. Bill

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Bill Smith" asks: Does anyone know where I can find stainless steel flagpole mounts in 3/4" dia.?  I can only find stainless in 1" and above.

Get a 1" long section of clear hose, slice it, place it on the rail or whatever and mount the 1" stainless flagpole atop it. -Bruce

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Dumb question: Does anyone know where I can find stainless steel flagpole mounts in 3/4" dia.?  I can only find stainless in 1" and above.

That’s gonna be a special order item. It’ll be cheaper to buy a larger flag pole. And while we’re on the subject of flags: The biggest mistake most people make is under-flagging their boats. The correct size flag is 1" of fly (length of the stripes) to 1′ of boat length. Since flags only come in 18" x 30", 24" x 36" etc…if your boat length falls ANYwhere in the middle, go UP to the next larger size, not down to the smaller one. IOW, the correct flag size for my 32′ boat is 24" x 36", not 18 x 30. Peggie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bill

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dumb question: Does anyone know where I can find stainless steel flagpole mounts in 3/4" dia.?  I can only find stainless in 1" and above. That’s gonna be a special order item. It’ll be cheaper to buy a larger flag pole. And while we’re on the subject of flags: The biggest mistake most people make is under-flagging their boats. The correct size flag is 1" of fly (length of the stripes) to 1′ of boat length. Since flags only come in 18" x 30", 24" x 36" etc…if your boat length falls ANYwhere in the middle, go UP to the next larger size, not down to the smaller one. IOW, the correct flag size for my 32′ boat is 24" x 36", not 18 x 30. Peggie Bill

Hmmmm. Maybe I need a stars and stripes fishing kite… — Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – - I’d love to, but I’m teaching my parrot to yodel.

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Hi, A different way to get those strippers! Eh! — Regards and God Speed, Gary Gary W. Sandvik 309-676-0224 (fax)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dumb question: Does anyone know where I can find stainless steel flagpole mounts in 3/4" dia.?  I can only find stainless in 1" and above. That’s gonna be a special order item. It’ll be cheaper to buy a larger flag pole. And while we’re on the subject of flags: The biggest mistake most people make is under-flagging their boats. The correct size flag is 1" of fly (length of the stripes) to 1′ of boat length. Since flags only come in 18" x 30", 24" x 36" etc…if your boat length falls ANYwhere in the middle, go UP to the next larger size, not down to the smaller one. IOW, the correct flag size for my 32′ boat is 24" x 36", not 18 x 30. Peggie Bill Hmmmm. Maybe I need a stars and stripes fishing kite… — Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – - I’d love to, but I’m teaching my parrot to yodel.

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Stripers! Eh! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, A different way to get those strippers! Eh! — Regards and God Speed, Gary Gary W. Sandvik 309-676-0224 (fax) Dumb question: Does anyone know where I can find stainless steel flagpole mounts in 3/4" dia.?  I can only find stainless in 1" and above. That’s gonna be a special order item. It’ll be cheaper to buy a larger flag pole. And while we’re on the subject of flags: The biggest mistake most people make is under-flagging their boats. The correct size flag is 1" of fly (length of the stripes) to 1′ of boat length. Since flags only come in 18" x 30", 24" x 36" etc…if your boat length falls ANYwhere in the middle, go UP to the next larger size, not down to the smaller one. IOW, the correct flag size for my 32′ boat is 24" x 36", not 18 x 30. Peggie Bill Hmmmm. Maybe I need a stars and stripes fishing kite… — Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – - I’d love to, but I’m teaching my parrot to yodel.

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Hi, A different way to get those strippers! Eh! — Regards and God Speed, Gary

Strippers are easy to get; stripers are more difficult.

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have used a fiberglass drift boat (16ft) for several years now on the Deschutes, upto class 4 whitewater.  Great boat.  If you plan on hitting a few rocks wood is not a good choice.  lots of maintenance-drying out, snding, refinishing 9but they are beautiful.  Company in Portland that sells plans and kits (Greg tatman- adds in flyfishing magazines).  The bow or stern depends on definition-  pointed part goes downriver but you row the other way-  anchor system goes on the broad end, but if lake fishing you need one on the pointed end as the boat will spin very easily in any wind.  Most driftboats will also take up to 10 hp motor.  I have 36lb thrust elecric for my and moves boat very well.  Aluminum is very durable but also noisy.  Definitely a 16ft for three people.  Enjoy

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Hi, My name is Al Beatty and I’m one of a few guides who use a wood drift boat.  You definitely want a 16′ boat for three people; a 14′ boat is too "squirrely" especially in the wind.  I guide in Montana and wind is a definite concern regarding drift boats.  Don Hill makes a really great wood drift boat and also has plans if you want to build your own.  You can find his address in most fly fishing magazines or ask your local fly shop. Normally you run a drift boat down the river bow first and usually the anchor is located on the stern of the boat. Good luck! Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Catalog Available 406-585-0745 (phn & fax)

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Either the Macenzie design(square front) or the Rogue is quite acceptable. Yes the wood  boats are more maintenance but also offer the greatest pleasure.Ever seen photographs of finished wood boats on the river? Compared to plastic or Aluminun there is no comparison.Also a wood boat,contrary to most opinions, is an easier rowing boat; wood boats float upside down!They also don’t blow around in the wind as bad as glass boats,especially the glass boats with rolled gunnels. One downside to a wood boat is lack of watertight storage but that is overcome with dry bags. www:http://www.accessone.com/~davy

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Agree with you comments.  Built a 17′ Rogue River and it has been a jewel to fish from.  Had a fiberglass one previouly.  The wood, drift easier, is easier to handle in big water, is not affected by the wind very much and tracks perfectly.  It is muck quieter and a lot warmer then the fiberglass and metal.  Floated the Keani this week.  Air tempeture was 20 degrees but yet the bottom of the boat was comfortable. — Gene Dobrzynski, Eagle River, Alaska

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 One of the things you forgot to mention was weight. Aluminum being the lightest, then fiberglass and wood. Ernie Harrison

Hmmmm. I’ll agree that aluminum boats are the sturdiest…hands down. But lightest? Not the ones I’ve seen. I remember guiding with Doug McClelland (former TU president, or some such) a few years ago. Doug’s Aumaweld was so heavy I nearly busted a gut trying to help him get it off the trailer. I wonder if anyone has the real weights: say what a 16 Lavro, ClackaCraft or SlideRite weighs compared to an Alumaweld, Willie’s or whatever.   One last point about Aluminum boats: steelhead guides who backtroll plugs like the sharp, molded chine of an aluminum boat, becuase it acts like a keel, and makes it easier to hold a "track" down through a good run. But every silver lining has its pepto bismol counter part…..that sharp, hard chine catches the water too hard when you are rowing sideways to a fast current. Try pulling out into a fast current after eddying out behind a mid-river bolder (with an aluminum driftboat)…..then you’ll get an appreciation for a smooth, rounded chine (like you get in a molded boat).   If you do decide to buy a molded boat, get the stiffest one you can find. Soft bottoms and flexible sides just create lost motion in the rowing process, which makes ’soft’ boats harder to row, and slower to move. —

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I am not sure that Irish and Scots Gillies would agree with your sentiments about glass fibre boats.  Their experience, and I lived to tell the tale, is that properly built wooden boats will take more punishment than GRP – especially when rocks are invisible just below the surface and you only find out they are there too late.  GRP is so easy to look after, which is why that is my choice on Loch Ness (no rocks!) Good fishing Oliver Inverness-shire

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Mike, it is unfortunate that a person can’t get all of the good features in one boat.  One of the things you forgot to mention was weight. Aluminum being the lightest, then fiberglass and wood. There was an article several years ago in Flyfishing about a fellow who recovered drift boats that people lost on Oregon’s salmon and steelhead rivers.  It was amazing what the water had done to these boats.  The fiberglass and wood boats were mostly damaged beyond repair.  The welded aluminum boats were generally all recoverable. Ernie Harrison

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I’m considering building a MacKenzie River drift boat, for use both on local rivers and smaller lakes.  This design is alleged to be quite adequate for drifting and much better for motoring than the Rogue River style drift boat. Does anyone have experience drift-fishing with this type of boat?  Do you drift with bow or stern downstream?  I assume you anchor bow-upstream…but can you mount an anchor bracket on the bow?  For three people, is a 14′ OK or should I go 16′?  Any experience or observations on this type of boat are welcome. Thanks.

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I used a wood drift for several years in Oregon on the coast streams.  A lot of maintenance, thats for sure. But its the best flyfishing platform I’ve ever used. The fiberglass boats seemed to float higher, draw less water, and be more durable.

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"There is an aluminum welded drift boat (Alumnaweld?) which is probably the most durable of all the drift boats and very low maintenance.. Ernie Harrison" Ernie, Alumaweld, the original welded aluminum driftboat.  For more contemporary designs in aluminum, see FishRite and/or Willie Boats. IMHO, Aluminum….noisy, durable, cold, NOT slippery unless bottom is treatet with Gluvit or plastic.  Capable of being made with a hard chine so hold well n water for backtrolling etc. Fiberglass…durable, quieter than aluminum, slippery, flexible rather than a rigid bottom like aluminum, rounded or soft chines. Wood…quietest and warmest, hard chines, classic craftmanship (Rays River Boats of Portland Oregon are some of the best), may be constructed with West System Epoxy techniques to reduce maintenance requirements.  Also, the only naturally buoyant construction material and the lowest center of gravity.                           Mike in PDX                "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                                            Tom McGuane

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writes: The fiberglass boats seemed to float higher, draw less water, and be more durable.

There is an aluminum welded drift boat (Alumnaweld?) which is probably the most durable of all the drift boats and very low maintenance.. Ernie Harrison

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I have used a fiberglass drift boat (16ft) for several years now on the Deschutes, upto class 4 whitewater.  Great boat.  If you plan on hitting a few rocks wood is not a good choice.  lots of maintenance-drying out, snding, refinishing 9but they are beautiful.  Company in Portland that sells plans and kits (Greg tatman- adds in flyfishing magazines).  The bow or stern depends on definition-  pointed part goes downriver but you row the other way-  anchor system goes on the broad end, but if lake fishing you need one on the pointed end as the boat will spin very easily in any wind.  Most driftboats will also take up to 10 hp motor.  I have 36lb thrust elecric for my and moves boat very well.  Aluminum is very durable but also noisy.  Definitely a 16ft for three people.  Enjoy

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Question:

Careful of the lower Owens right now running 700 CFS (alot of water) They are trying to move as much water through as they can before the snowpack runoff begins. Lower owens can be tough wading evenat lower water levels. Pete

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Be sure to take you knee pads for the Owens.  Sneaking up on those fish takes a lot of patience or a curved rod for shooting from behind a bush. Many FinShakes Ray Chapa San Antonio, Tx — Ray Chapa

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try big tejunga creek just outside la crescenta, between the resevoir and upstrem to the bridge – access is a long walk down a fire break off big tejunga canyon rd, park a half mile downstream of the bridge – wild bows in spectacular canyon.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Path: news.teleport.com!psgrain!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.net com.com!netnews Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: Netcom Lines: 10 Distribution: world NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-lb1-04.ix.netcom.com Can anbody sugest where I should flyfish in  So. Calif. for a weekend? There are several ares, West Fork of the San Gabreal, Bear Creek and the best is Lower Owens outside of Bishop this time of the year.  You also have the Pacific at your door step.  If you need more info on the Bishop area let me know.  Joe

I caught the flyfishing bug on the Lower Owens right outside of Bishop.  For me the key was that I used the most incredible guide I’ve ever had the privilage to fish with (to this day I’ve never even heard stories about anyone that fishes as well as he does).   My 1st day ever fishing with a fly rod (& probably the 10th time of any kind of fishing in my life) I landed 25 wild brown trout – if I could have been quicker to strike (as on his first "strike" call, instead of the 2nd or 3rd…) it would have been more.  I was gut hooked in the worst (best) way…   Harry Blackburn Eastside Guide Service Mammoth Lakes, CA 619/934-6457 Tell him Ant sent you…  He also knows about all the best places to fish in the Mammoth/Bishop area, the variety is incredible.

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Can anbody sugest where I should flyfish in  So. Calif. for a weekend?

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Can anbody sugest where I should flyfish in  So. Calif. for a weekend?

There are several ares, West Fork of the San Gabreal, Bear Creek and the best is Lower Owens outside of Bishop this time of the year.  You also have the Pacific at your door step.  If you need more info on the Bishop area let me know.  Joe

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So if I were going to the Owens in May for hanggliding, should I plan on some fishing also? Old Montana Flyfisherman.

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So if I were going to the Owens in May for hanggliding, should I plan on some fishing also? Old Montana Flyfisherman.

Yes, but fishing from hanggliders is restricted to the 2 miles immediately below Pleasant Valley Dam, and any fish caught from a hangglider must be released to the water where they were taken.   There is talk that this section of the river will be made hanggliders only in the near future.

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Question:

The best advice for the Beartooth is to be prepared for EVERYTHING and know where you are going.  It can and will snow up there at any time and will likely get down to the 40s at night (if not lower).  There are a couple of good sporting good stores in Red Lodge who will answer questions. P.S. If you ski — bring them as it is year round if you don’t mind hiking back up.  Have fun.

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Hello my name is Michael mitchell I currently attend Michigan State University and work in Yellowstone Nat. Park.  Some of the best Fishing for cutts can be found in the North east portion of the park.  just 15 min. from cook city Montana Ps. good food at Beartooth Cafe. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m doing a hike into the Bear Tooth range in Montana to do some fishing this august.. I’ve always wanted to hike into the high country and fish some of the alpine lakes.. i’ve heard this region is great.. I would appreciate any advice or talk on the area.. I don’t know what to expect for weather.. I was told that the region we’re going to is void of insect life except crickets.. keg

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Question:

Hi there! Im a beginner and im wondering what line size rod to buy. I am from oregon and will do most of my fishing for trout- although I would like to eventually go for steelhead and salmon. I really dont want to have to buy a separate rod. Is a 7 too small for larger fish would an 8 scare off most trout? If I were only fishing for trout a 6 would be ideal. Can I buy say an 8 rod and fish with 6 line? or would the loss of controll be too much ? Any response would be much appreciated!

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Buying a rod and using undersized line defeats the loading ability of the rod. I mean loading, the tip section of the rod actually bends and creates the loop (very important) that the rod causes in the line. Confusing? Yes. I would not buy a 8 and use a 6 line nor buy a 6 and use a 8 line. That overloads the tip. I would prefer a 5 or 6 for trout. Haven’t had experience with large steelhead but would imagine you could land one but would really wear it out! Sadly, there really isn’t just one rod that does it all. You might look for a good used rod at a local dealer or flyfishing club. I’d pay more for the one I use most. Say spring for a good Orvis Green Mountain or Rocky Mountain (2 piece rods around $200) and look for a cheaper rod if I were going to fish steel head only 1 or 2 times a year.

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