Question:

You might try http://www.paflyfish.easetech.com/ There is a listing of fly shops (though I’m sure not complete) and a bullitin board wherre you can post your questions. Pretty active. It seems to be THE place to go to find out about Pa trout matters.

I tried that one out. The nearest fly shops were down in Williamsport. I was kinda hoping to find one right in Canton, preferably staffed by a cute young lady with a soft spot for engineers on quests. Hope springs eternal and all that… My work firewall won’t let me into the forum section, so I haven’t posted questions yet. Barring any particular solutions, I can just use general solutions: Be polite, bring five sizes of Adams and tie on 7x. You picked (or had fantastic dumb luck) a great area to fish and nearly the perfect time of year to go.

One of my friends just bought a new digital camera so I’ll post pictures of the scenery. I was in Bucks County last weekend and the trees were just starting to turn. I think by the time I get to Bradford County they’ll be mostly done, but the state of the leaves is really just a part of the whole experience. Brookies in the fall? You will be dazzled.

I hope so. It has the ingredients to become maudlin and possibly even mawkish. If the fish are even a tenth as beautiful as I remember (assuming I catch one), I might just begin to cry from the sheer emotional power of touching my inner child. At worst, I’ll start watching Lifetime or Oxygen… Kiyu

Thanks for the suggestion. Steve "I can see the mountains, I can see the sky, and it’s all too pretty for a man to want to die." -Johnny Cash, "25 Minutes to Go"

Response:

"You never even called me by my name"… Steve Goodman (City of new orleans) wrote it and sent it to David Allan Coe telling him it was the perfect country/western song, Coe replied saying it wasn’t because it didn’t mention pick up trucks, being drunk, trains, Momma, Prison or dying. Goodman wrote an additional verse sent it back and Coe recorded it. That verse went like this… "I was drunk, the day my Mom, got outta prison, and I went to pick her up in the rain, but before I could get to the station in my pick up truck, she got runned over by a damned old train…." Great sing along swing song I used to do at every gig, and if we forgot to include it the requests ensured we did. A good song, but just as good a laugh. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Frank Reid" No one has written a country western song about it, I could, but probably wont….. Clark To quote an intro off a Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young album, "Here’s a song guaranteed to bring you right down.  Its called, "Don’t let it bring you down."" Who was it that said the perfect country western song’s gotta have "trucks, trains, mothers" and a few other things? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

"Brian D. Nelson" Wasn’t that Merle?? Nope, David Allan Coe sang it, Steve Goodman wrote it. Clark

Response:

"I was drunk, the day my Mom, got outta prison, and I went to pick her up in the rain, but before I could get to the station in my pick up truck, she got runned over by a damned old train…."

Clark, I know you will remember the bit by Billy Connolly (or as he says, Big Bill Connolly, the man who put the c**t in Country Music). He was the big scottish guy in "Head of the Class" for the US readers. The bit deconstructs the genre in a humorous yet accurate way, talking about the tragedy, lost love, alcohol that form the common or garden country song. He tops the bit off with this little number: http://www.btinternet.com/~sarsen/billy/bc-candw.html Note the part that says "Country and Western Sounds" went like: Yo de lay eeeee .. lay eeee .. lay eeeee Wooo Wooo You know what I mean Cheers, — Gary M (remove ‘x’s from email address)

Response:

When I was a kid and I lived on the Western slopes of the Rockies, my father and I went fishing for brookies in small alpine creeks. We used spinning gear and worms and enjoyed the summer sunshine. My father was a very busy man and these trips were the highlight of our time in Colorado. We got up before light and dressed heavily because even in July the overnight temperatures would drop to near freezing. There was a perfunctory attempt at packing lunch, usually a block of cheese, leftover steak, two sodas, a sixpack and the obligatory thermos of coffee. Sometimes it was just the coffee and the sixpack. We drove out to Steamboat Springs, stopped at the same gas station for worms and headed up towards Hahn’s Peak. At first we went for the little brookies in the streams that flowed into Steamboat Lake. Later, Dad got a little twelve-foot aluminum boat and we trolled Steamboat Lake for rainbows, and then after we moved, bass in small lakes. No matter where I go or how I fish, I remember how perfect those little brookies were. The biggest we ever caught was eight inches and six was the norm. They all came from those sun-soaked little creeks where the water was so cold it hurt your feet and all the while, Hahn’s Peak looked down in all its purple benevolence. I’m older, and my third-grade enthusiasm is tempered with a little knowledge and a little skill. I know that those little brookies were invaders; they probably should have been cutthroats. It doesn’t change how beautiful they were or how great it was to be ten years old and fishing with Dad. In two weeks, I going with my friends to a cabin on the border between Bradford and Tioga Counties. According to the Pennsylvania Fishing and Boating Commission, there is a Class A Wild Trout Stream right in the little town of Canton, with a population of native brookies, wild and sustaining. Rathbone Creek, it is called. This will be my first chance at wild brookies, and more importantly, my first chance at natives: fish that have lived in that area since the glaciers retreated twelve thousand years ago. I’ve left the worms and the spinning rods behind (for the most part), and since I’ve taken up fly fishing I’ve considered a native brookie on a dry fly to be very meaningful and a fishing milestone. I think it will be almost a exciting as hooking my first steelhead (though not as dramatic). I’d like some help in this quest: Is there a fly shop in the vicinity of Canton? Is there public access to this Rathbone Creek? Is Rathbone the right idea? We’re not hooligans and we won’t trash anybody’s favorite spots. Thanks, Steve

Response:

… since I’ve taken up fly fishing I’ve considered a native brookie on a dry fly to be very meaningful and a fishing milestone. …

You’re a man after my own heart. I can’t help you with your Pennsylvania quest but you would be right at home in North Carolina. Uncle Waldo at ezflyfish could set you right up. Good luck. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

… since I’ve taken up fly fishing I’ve considered a native brookie on a dry fly to be very meaningful and a fishing milestone. … You’re a man after my own heart. I can’t help you with your Pennsylvania quest but you would be right at home in North Carolina. Uncle Waldo at ezflyfish could set you right up. Good luck.

I’ll second all of that and add that if you’re ever in Wisconsin or upper Michigan we can show you LOTS of native brookies. Wolfgang

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … since I’ve taken up fly fishing I’ve considered a native brookie on a dry fly to be very meaningful and a fishing milestone. … You’re a man after my own heart. I can’t help you with your Pennsylvania quest but you would be right at home in North Carolina. Uncle Waldo at ezflyfish could set you right up. Good luck. I’ll second all of that and add that if you’re ever in Wisconsin or upper Michigan we can show you LOTS of native brookies. Wolfgang

    gotta go there and do that.  it wouldn’t be maudlin, would it? yfitons wayno

Response:

I’ll second all of that and add that if you’re ever in Wisconsin or upper Michigan we can show you LOTS of native brookies. Wolfgang    gotta go there and do that.  it wouldn’t be maudlin, would it? yfitons wayno

just don’t trip over the meniscus Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … since I’ve taken up fly fishing I’ve considered a native brookie on a dry fly to be very meaningful and a fishing milestone. … You’re a man after my own heart. I can’t help you with your Pennsylvania quest but you would be right at home in North Carolina. Uncle Waldo at ezflyfish could set you right up. Good luck. I’ll second all of that and add that if you’re ever in Wisconsin or upper Michigan we can show you LOTS of native brookies. Wolfgang     gotta go there and do that.  it wouldn’t be maudlin, would it? yfitons wayno

Nope…….um……not on a school day anyway.  Weekends…..well, you know.   Wolfgang bring cheese!

Response:

You might try http://www.paflyfish.easetech.com/ There is a listing of fly shops (though I’m sure not complete) and a bullitin board wherre you can post your questions. Pretty active. It seems to be THE place to go to find out about Pa trout matters. You picked (or had fantastic dumb luck) a great area to fish and nearly the perfect time of year to go. Brookies in the fall? You will be dazzled. Kiyu

Response:

    gotta go there and do that.  it wouldn’t be maudlin, would it? yfitons wayno

No one has written a country western song about it, nor has anyone reported their rod missing.  I would give it a 0.2 on the maudlin potentiometer. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

"Frank Reid" No one has written a country western song about it, I could, but probably wont….. Clark

Response:

"Frank Reid" No one has written a country western song about it, I could, but probably wont….. Clark

To quote an intro off a Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young album, "Here’s a song guaranteed to bring you right down.  Its called, "Don’t let it bring you down."" Who was it that said the perfect country western song’s gotta have "trucks, trains, mothers" and a few other things? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

Who was it that said the perfect country western song’s gotta have "trucks, trains, mothers" and a few other things?

David Allan Coe "…and he told me it was the perfect country and western song I wrote him back a letter and told him it was NOT the perfect country and western song because he hadn’t said anything about Momma, or trains, or trucks, or prison, or gettin’ drunk…" — Charlie…

Response:

Who was it that said the perfect country western song’s gotta have "trucks, trains, mothers" and a few other things?

Wasn’t that Merle?? — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

"…and he told me it was the perfect country and western song I wrote him back a letter and told him it was NOT the perfect country and western song because he hadn’t said anything about Momma, or trains, or trucks, or prison, or gettin’ drunk…"

"I was drunk the day my ma got out of prison…" Joe F.

Response:

<Snipped "I was drunk the day my ma got out of prison…" Joe F.

Thanks, by the way, this is cool.  Joe’s comment on Charlie’s post arrived on my server first.  Still can’t see Charlie’s post. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

"I was drunk the day my ma got out of prison…" Joe F.

Since I can’t see Charlie’s post, who was it? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

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"I was drunk the day my ma got out of prison…" Joe F. Since I can’t see Charlie’s post, who was it?

David Allan Coe. — Charlie…

Response:

"Frank Reid" No one has written a country western song about it, I could, but probably wont….. Clark To quote an intro off a Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young album, "Here’s a song guaranteed to bring you right down.  Its called, "Don’t let it bring you down.""

And then he adds, "It starts out kinda slow and then fizzles out altogether." Russell Some of these threads start out slow. It’s getting them to fizzle out that’s hard.

Response:

Question:

I love how predictably I can stir up this hornet’s nest anytime I please. I simply don’t understand why you don’t ignore my taunts. Try it once, and reclaim your newsgroup. — Citizen Fisherman one can’t be ostracized from a vacuum…

Response:

Dick Head said: << I love how predictably I can stir up this hornet’s nest anytime I please. I That’s pretty obvious. What I don’t understand is why you would want to stir things up. Are you a jerk or what?

Response:

Dick Head said: << I love how predictably I can stir up this hornet’s nest anytime I please. I That’s pretty obvious. What I don’t understand is why you would want to stir things up. Are you a jerk or what?

The former.   What I don’t understand is how consistently achieving the predictable holds much fascination at all, much less being deserving of self-congratulation. Joe F.

Response:

Yup, got the accounts mixed….. john "

Response:

I love how predictably I can stir up this hornet’s nest anytime I please. I simply don’t understand why you don’t ignore my taunts. Try it once, and reclaim your newsgroup.

Yeah man ! Aren’t you a cool guy ! Just got back from a whitefish journey. First thing this morning, though, caught (and released) 2 *gorgeous* browns 16" and 18". The average whitefish has gotten huge [around 3 pounds]. I have the fillets of 8 of them brining. The trout would have been excellent smoked, but I was after whitefish. There was a brutal carnage of these fish. In the morning we saw the ‘first guard’ of several pods of around 20 fish were in the creek. Then the people arrived, a church group and more. Thye just got in the water with them. They threw rocks at them and laughed. This went on all day. When I left I could not find any fish in the creek except a dead one wedged in a rock. It was very sad to me. Three men talked with me while I caught a nice one in the main river. When they saw it one asked if it was a rainbow trout. They went up in the creek and one of them came back with a whitefish he had caught with his hands. He asked me if he could keep it and I told him that, if he had a license, he’d probably be OK. He did not. A little while later I saw him again. He asked where he could catch a salmon. I told him, maybe Reudi. He asked where he could catch a salmon in Denver. I told him I did not know. About an hour later I saw them with some other people and they had filled a kitchen sized trash bag with fish they caught, I think by throwing rocks at them. Wierd carnage. One lady took the roe from all of my fish to feed her bloodhound. I though that was pretty cool. I mean, I do not eat whitefish roe. I saw literally buckets, shop buckets, full of fish hauled out. It did not bother me. At least the guys that obviously had smoke houses ready to accept the fish. It was the people killing them for no reason that really bugged me and the people that obviously would throw them away if they did keep them. These whitefish were very easy to hook but hard to catch. They’d get into the strong current and even with the 6 weight and 4X, you had no choice but to get running downstream. Almost always they’d ball up the tackle. Frieght trains. While you could feel the head shake that made you pretty certain it was a whitefish, you really did not know if it was a large brown or a whitefish until you could see it. This made for some exciting fishing. One guy told me that if I steamed them and removed the meat I could mix it with eggs and cracker crumbs and spices and fry it in a mock crab cake or make tacos with the meat that it was excellent. He said you can also freeze the steamed meat and it would keep. All in all, very good ideas. In the afternoon we moved down and I hooked 6 fish, landed 3 [2 browns and a bow] all were around 16. The bow was very fat in the shoulders and deep bodied, at least 5 inches. An extremely nice fish. None of them faught a fraction as hard as any of the whitefish. I had a fish get off that was the proverbial ‘I thought it was a snag’. I really did think it was a snag, and I pulled *hard* when it just started moving away slowly. The hook straightened, and I lost him. It was a TMC 2457. My minds eye tells me it was a brown. Five pounds. At least. Your pal, — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Just got back from a whitefish journey. First thing this morning, though, caught (and released) 2 *gorgeous* browns 16" and 18". The average whitefish has gotten huge [around 3 pounds]. I have the fillets of 8 of them brining. The trout would have been excellent smoked, but I was after whitefish.

Thanks for the report.  That rock throwing etc. on the whitefish was too weird. Where was this? I’ve never come across anything like that. Willi

Response:

There was a brutal carnage of these fish. In the morning we saw the ‘first guard’ of several pods of around 20 fish were in the creek. Then the people arrived, a church group and more. Thye just got in the water with them. They threw rocks at them and laughed. This went on all day.

???? a church group? that is wierd…. too damn weird. –waldo

Response:

Just got back from a whitefish journey. First thing this morning, though, caught (and released) 2 *gorgeous* browns 16" and 18". The average whitefish has gotten huge [around 3 pounds]. I have the fillets of 8 of them brining. The trout would have been excellent smoked, but I was after whitefish.

Yeah, that’s what I tell the guys too, heh heh. While you could feel the head shake that made you pretty certain it was a whitefish, you really did not know if it was a large brown or a whitefish until you could see it. This made for some exciting fishing.

I wish I could get over that bummer when I find out it’s *not* a large brown

Response:

Then the people arrived, a church group and more. Thye just got in the water with them. They threw rocks at them and laughed. This went on all day.

Throwing rocks at a baptism seems like an unconventional way to welcome a new convert. To each his own, I guess. –Steve

Response:

There was a brutal carnage of these fish. In the morning we saw the ‘first guard’ of several pods of around 20 fish were in the creek. Then the people arrived, a church group and more. Thye just got in the water with them. They threw rocks at them and laughed. This went on all day. ???? a church group? that is wierd…. too damn weird.

They probably caught two, tried to feed multitudes, and, failing that, decided to stone the rest. JR

Response:

…..I wish I could get over that bummer when I find out it’s *not* a large brown

You should.  You would be doing yourself a favor.  I caught as many whitefish as trout on a trip to southwest Montana some years ago and enjoyed them every bit as much.  Whitefish are eager to take a fly, put up as good a fight as trout, are attractive in their own right, and are quite tasty.  While I understand the appeal of targeting a particular species on a given outing, I am never bothered by the serendipitous catch of another, and particularly so when it introduces me to a species with a lot of good characteristics (from an angler’s point of view) and to which I had never given any consideration.  Hell, I’d go back just to stupid old trout.      :( Wolfgang chubs now……damn, what i wouldn’t give to tie into a mess of nice four inch chubs!

Response:

Throwing rocks at a baptism seems like an unconventional way to welcome a new convert. To each his own, I guess.

Sounds to me like there’s a distressing shortage of sinners in that crowd. Wolfgang don’t s’pose i’d fit in real good.      :(

Response:

Just got back from a whitefish journey. First thing this morning, though, caught (and released) 2 *gorgeous* browns 16" and 18". The average whitefish has gotten huge [around 3 pounds]. I have the fillets of 8 of them brining. The trout would have been excellent smoked, but I was after whitefish. Thanks for the report.  That rock throwing etc. on the whitefish was too weird. Where was this? I’ve never come across anything like that.

Let’s just say it was at an interstate rest area. I’ll tell you exactly where in email or when I see you. You’ve probably already figured it out from the clues. There was a pedestrian bridge over the creek and a colorful sign depicting the life cycle of the Whitefish. I think it was titled "A Colorado Native". In the morning a delightful couple excitedly pointed out the fish to us. It’s too bad that travelers after about 2 in the afternoon would have seen no fish, or just the few dead ones. I don’t think the church group was all that bad. It was just teenage girls and boys with their shoes off…for the hour or so break from the bus journey they were on. The guys were chasing and teasing the girls with the whitefish, just like you and I would have done. That kind of thing. Fairly harmless. I think that as a reasonable ‘pattern of positive behavior’ there’s an ethical compromise. Once fish make the spawning tributary they should be proected. It takes a fair amount of skill to catch them in the main river. That would enforce some degree of ‘fair chase’ to the equation. You’d have to at least care enough about what you’re doing to pick up a license and a rod and reel and to fish for them. Not just a big rock. I was thinking….I bet the people that left with a trash bag full probably thought we were wasting our time, fishing for them with nymphs, I mean…it took a while to get just a few with the fly rod…they got 50 in 10 minutes by throwing them up on the rocks with their hands. I feel fairly strongly that the fish in the creek should be enjoyed by the people stopping in at the rest area. It’s a marvel of nature and very impressive. Just the education that the Rainbow trout is not native to Colorado but the Whitefish are, would probably be interesting to thinking people that would probably otherwise never know. I’m formatting the words to the letter to the CDOW and local papers in my head as we speak. I’m thinking more on these human/wildlife ‘patterns’ as regarding reccomendations and paradigms. Your pal, — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

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"TBone" .    That would enforce some degree of ‘fair chase’ to the equation. You’d have to at least care enough about what you’re doing to pick up a license and a rod and reel and to fish for them.

I hate to say it……but even a few minor – ENFORCED – regulations have an enormous result in the amount of streamside litter, diminished negative behavior and overall improvement that it is time to consider such things for all streams. You eliminate a whole class of people. john

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..and you get my first <SPLORK john

Response:

???? a church group? that is wierd…. too damn weird. –waldo

It would seem like it until you’ve had some experience with church groups and the outdoors.  They should restrict themselves to city parks and playgrounds, where they know what’s happening.  On what used to be my favorite part of my favorite river, they’ve proven themselves to be almost as obnoxious as the beer for breakfast bunch and rather more dangerous.  Mostly, thank (heaven?) to themselves, but it’s painful to watch and to try to give them a clue when they get really odd and the kids are likely to be dumped, drown, get hypothermia or any combination of the former.  While some of them don’t believe Darwin was correct, they sometimes seem intent on proving his theories. — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

They probably caught two, tried to feed multitudes, and, failing that, decided to stone the rest. JR

…god, now that’s funny!!! jeff (brimstone, anyone?)

Response:

They probably caught two, tried to feed multitudes, and, failing that, decided to stone the rest. JR …god, now that’s funny!!! jeff (brimstone, anyone?)

Agreed. ROFLOL. — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

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Question:

Two of us are planning a ten-twelve day canoe trip in La Verendrye reserve in Quebec, late August to early September. Any advice on routes? We have the route maps put out by the reserve, but they’re a bit short on detail. Some specific questions: Are motor boats allowed anywhere in the area? We definitely don’t want to share the trip with them. The portages look pretty short and straightforward – are there any you’d avoid? Same thing with the river sections connecting the lakes – are any of them to stay clear of? (We also paddle Class 2 whitewater but are not taking a whitewater boat along, don’t want to run rapids on this trip.) The campsite density near Le Domaine looks very high – is it really very crowded there? Will the area be crowded over Labor Day weekend? Can you leave your car safely for a couple weeks at any of the other access points? Would you recommend bringing an emergency phone/locator system, or is that overkill? We’ve done a 12-day trip in Algonquin Park (from the northern access) and are looking for something similar, but a bit wilder with fewer other people. Any comments and recommnedations gratefully received!

Response:

Two of us are planning a ten-twelve day canoe trip in La Verendrye reserve in Quebec, late August to early September. Any advice on routes? We have the route maps put out by the reserve, but they’re a bit short on detail. Some specific questions: Are motor boats allowed anywhere in the area? We definitely don’t want to share the trip with them.

Hunting and fishing are the primary activities in La Verendrye and fisherman can drive/fly into the lake they have purchased a license to fish in.  This means you are likely to encounter motorboats on any good sized lake along your route. The portages look pretty short and straightforward – are there any you’d avoid? Same thing with the river sections connecting the lakes – are any of them to stay clear of? (We also paddle Class 2 whitewater but are not taking a whitewater boat along, don’t want to run rapids on this trip.) The campsite density near Le Domaine looks very high – is it really very crowded there? Will the area be crowded over Labor Day weekend?

You can only count on the portages within the Le Domaine area being well maintained so it is hard to say what you will encounter elsewhere.   Can you leave your car safely for a couple weeks at any of the other access points?

This seems to be a problem.  One of our canoe club members suggests leaving your car empty and unlocked. Would you recommend bringing an emergency phone/locator system, or is that overkill?

That would be overkill considering the interior road network and the likelihood of encountering fisherman who have driven in. We’ve done a 12-day trip in Algonquin Park (from the northern access) and are looking for something similar, but a bit wilder with fewer other people.

La Verendrye has the advantage that you can select routes that are long but with relatively little portaging.  It is impossible to do a route of significant length in Algonquin without a considerable amount of portaging. — John Stewart — Computing and Communications Services, Carleton University "you are incompetent bloodlusting idiot pirates. — CCS student feedback"

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Question:

well if anybody knows the truth it’s you right Bill? right Bill? i mean you are an honest truthful operator right? there’s never been any hint of any other behaviour in your past right? there are no unpaid judgements against you right? no unfavorable court judgements or anything of that nature at all right? just wondering that’s all,i mean person has to be careful who they give their money to don’t they-right?

Response:

Try Baja!  - Catch Report April 22, 2000 La Paz/So. Cerralvo Is.

Question:

Um, yes, …

SPAM ! — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Um, yes, I’m new to FF and I’m trying to find an online site that makes it really EASY to buy fly fishing gear. You know, really, really E-Z. Any ideas? –Steve

Response:

After a thorough and exhaustive search of my backyard and Alta Vista.Com, I came up with this: One dead bird One half of a semi-live earth worm Some fresh dog shit (first step find) and this:  www.e-zfly.com/ Opie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Um, yes, I’m new to FF and I’m trying to find an online site that makes it really EASY to buy fly fishing gear. You know, really, really E-Z. Any ideas? –Steve

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Um, yes, I’m new to FF and I’m trying to find an online site that makes it really EASY to buy fly fishing gear. You know, really, really E-Z. Any ideas?

What are ya – an idjit? I typed "EZ" into AlteredVister and got five million hits, and the 248,094th one led me right to the source! You *must* be an idjit! Sheesh! Send an email to Louie’s grand daughter. I hear she’s a wizard with search engines… /daytripper (And stop spamming the group ;^)

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Send an email to Louie’s grand daughter. I hear she’s a wizard with search engines… /daytripper (And stop spamming the group ;^)

sniff….sniff…..sniff…..nope, thet ain’t no spam.  Thet ther is a troll!

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you will find what you want within the 1st 5 hits every time<g.

Unless, of course, those *are* your key words<g. — Charlie…

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What are ya – an idjit? I typed "EZ" into AlteredVister and got five million hits, and the 248,094th one led me right to the source! You *must* be an idjit! Sheesh!

The key to an effective web search is not as much what you *include* in the search as what you *exclude*. In HotBot, for example, if you exclude the keywords "moist", "teen", "anal" and "eBay" you will find what you want within the 1st 5 hits every time<g. — Charlie…

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you will find what you want within the 1st 5 hits every time<g. Unless, of course, those *are* your key words<g. — Charlie…

        you keep raising the bar, chocolat!  fabulous work. wayno, recovering from hysteria

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In HotBot, for example, if you exclude the keywords "moist", "teen", "anal" and "eBay" you will find what you want within the 1st 5 hits every time<g.

Regards, Jeff

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In HotBot, for example, if you exclude the keywords "moist", "teen", "anal" and "eBay" you will find what you want within the 1st 5 hits every time<g.

I INCLUDE ONLY those keywords, and I find what I’m looking for 4 hits out of 5! Regards, Jeff

Response:

Steve:  Try www.TroutWorld.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Um, yes, I’m new to FF and I’m trying to find an online site that makes it really EASY to buy fly fishing gear. You know, really, really E-Z. Any ideas? –Steve

Response:

Whiff! Steeeerike One! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steve:  Try www.TroutWorld.com Um, yes, I’m new to FF and I’m trying to find an online site that makes it really EASY to buy fly fishing gear. You know, really, really E-Z. Any ideas? –Steve

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Question:

You don’t need a video to tell you that if the lines breaking you need a higher wt line.  When guides say to you "there’s no way you need more than a 4lb tippet on that river" what they really mean is that IFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF you had the shuttle, boat and knowledge of where the holes were, that even though the current was raging back at the public fishing area you could fish 2-4lb leader in the deep wide holes they fish.  They don’t know that you need a 10lb leader back where the currents raging and the fish can get out sideways in it.  So when they tell you there’s no way you need anything bigger than a 5.1lb tippet (or whatever they claim is the max wt used by "real fishermen")

Unless one has no ability at all to play a fish properly, he will certainly land more fish on a heavier tippet.   At the same time, it is certainly possible to successfully land a big fish on a very light tippet.   On the Salmon River, though, (and anywhere for that matter) you need to balance more than just landing a fish against tippet strength.   If you play a fish for 45 minutes on a 4 lb tippet, everyone around you has to keep their lines out of the water and thumbs up their asses while you have a good time all by yourself.   And when you have it on the beach, it will be dead beat and no candidate for c&r if you are so inclined.   On the other hand, boy was that fun. If you tie on a big heavy tippet, you’ll be able to put a lot more pressure on the fish and get it to the beach more quickly.   Go too far in this direction, however, and you may as well be one of the brainless meat fishermen spin casting with 30 lb mono to haul ‘em in. For me, a guy of below average ability, I’ve found 8 or 10 lb to be quite sufficient on the Salmon R. to give me a good balance of sport, success, and courtesy.   I will add that if you are breaking off a lot, be sure it’s not your knots.

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You don’t need a video to tell you that if the lines breaking you need a higher wt line.  When guides say to you "there’s no way you need more than a 4lb tippet on that river" what they really mean is that IFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF you had the shuttle, boat and knowledge of where the holes were, that even though the current was raging back at the public fishing area you could fish 2-4lb leader in the deep wide holes they fish.  They don’t know that you need a 10lb leader back where the currents raging and the fish can get out sideways in it.  So when they tell you there’s no way you need anything bigger than a 5.1lb tippet (or whatever they claim is the max wt used by "real fishermen") Tie your own tappered leaders.  I was reading in a book on al fly fishing just the other nite that the author reccomends making your tappered leader from 40, 30, 20 and 18in of material of 25, 20, 15, and 10lb line respectively.  Good luck, I hope this has been some help. Fished the Salmon River in Pulaski, New York with a fly rod this week and found the experience to be quite different from that of dry fly fishing.  I hooked and broke off three fish and would like any recommendations on:  books/videos relate to this type of fishing, recs on a good entry level rod and reel for

– Cordially, Mike McNally Speculators may do no harm as bubbles on a steady stream of enterprise. But the position is serious when enterprise becomes the bubble on a whirlpool of speculation.               –John Maynard Keynes

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You don’t need a video to tell you that if the lines breaking you need a higher wt line.  When guides say to you "there’s no way you need more than a 4lb tippet on that river" what they really mean

<snip Amen. I have used a short (7 ft) 10 or 12 lb tippet on my sink tip, and a 12 ft 8 lb tippet for salmon and steelhead for years. Yep, I lose some still, but I have caught (and released) more than 150 salmon this fall alone.

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I just got Flies for Steelhead by Farrow Allen and Dick Stewart from Lyons Press (~$20 softcover). The photography is quite good and it has a thorough collection of patterns from different regions of the country. The flies in the photos are tied either by the inventor of the pattern or by a well known tyer from the region of origin.  Great Lakes Steelhead – A Guided Tour for Fly Anglers from Back Country Press ($20) is a great book by Bob Linsenmann and Steve Nevala (fun reading).  There is a brief but very practical sections on techniques, equipment, etc in the beginning. The rest of the book is a collection of essays collected from these guys going fishing with a number of guides in their home waters.  Fly Fishing for Salmon and Steelhead of the Great Lakes by Ken Filkins ($17 Wilderness Books – hard to find but available on www.amazon.com).  This book mostly emphasizes chuck and duck type fishing but has a really good section on fish attitudes towards different types of flies & presentations thus explaining (or at least stating) why many west coast techniques are only effective during a short period of the steelhead’s migration into midwestern tributaries.  I’ve been using a Scientific Anglers System 2m 8/9.  It’s a reasonably inexpensive and very reliable disc drag reel.  The regular System 2 is quite heavy but I don’t know if the 2m is still in production.  As far as a rod is concerned I bought myself the cheapest one I could find, a St. Croix 9ft 9 weight Pro-Graphite.  With all the brush I run through, the slippery rocks, ice, hands made numb and clumsy by the bitter chill, I wouldn’t want to risk damaging an expensive stick.  Just letting you know what has worked well for me.  I don’t have the experience nor the moeny to really tell you what other options are available to you. Good Fishing.    Mu Young Lee         Ann Arbor, MI  o             oooo                          o   o   o o   o o o  o – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fished the Salmon River in Pulaski, New York with a fly rod this week and found the experience to be quite different from that of dry fly fishing.  I hooked and broke off three fish and would like any recommendations on:  books/videos relate to this type of fishing, recs on a good entry level rod and reel for

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Fished the Salmon River in Pulaski, New York with a fly rod this week and found the experience to be quite different from that of dry fly fishing.  I hooked and broke off three fish and would like any recommendations on:  books/videos relate to this type of fishing, recs on a good entry level rod and reel for

It seems to be normal to break off 3 fish in this sort of fishing: but not normal to break off 100 per cent of hookups. The range of tackle is from medium (say 6 weight rod with 2x or 6 lb. tippets) to strong (8 or 9 weight, tippets 0X or 12 lb.) This river is sufficiently free of obstructions that you can fish the lighter tackle — provided you have a first-class reel, because its drag is important.  (Heavier tackle is useful in smaller Michigan or Ontario steelhead rivers.) Winter freshwater salmon and steelhead seem not to be leader shy.  They may or may not avoid sideways drag: but the essential point is to be able to present the fly as deep as the fish’s holding depth, whatever that is.  I have known people to make special sinking leaders (coated with powdered led embedded in glue) for this purpose. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Fished the Salmon River in Pulaski, New York with a fly rod this week and found the experience to be quite different from that of dry fly fishing.  I hooked and broke off three fish and would like any recommendations on:  books/videos relate to this type of fishing, recs on a good entry level rod and reel for

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Question:

fishing in SW MO

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<snip I have for sale a complete set of Orvis 5 wt far and fine rod, battenkill reel,fully outfitted including aluminum case with cover. <snip

Bob, I tried to send you mail at the above address, and my mail kicked it back several times.  Anyway, I’ll give you $325 for the Far and Fine, if you still have it.  Does it still have the reel case, backing and line? Let me know what you think, Kevin

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Hallelujah, hallelujah!

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Regarding the demise of the FF Boom ( Orvis for sale):      First I must say that I AM a yuppie by the standards set by the politically correct, in who knows where. But, I just got LUCKY and succeeded early. In fact, I still consider myself an ex hippie who is still trying to grow up, and most times not sure I really should.  I started FFishing at the age of 15 (on my own) and have flicked the fly now for 25 years.     Now that I have delivered my disclaimor… I have felt for a long time that the sport was getting a little frothy. A few events really got to me in the past year: 1) Brocaw, on the nightly news, announced that there would be a sub anchor because he was goin "Flyfishing in Montana" 2) There was a cellular phone ad on TV with a guy streamside, wrapping up a contract deal on his cellular. 3) A friend of mine, Gus Serven, and I shared a booth at the big FF show in Denver last Sept.  Gus invented "FLOTPAK", a simple device that keeps your floatant hanging from your vest, i.e. available, when you need it, as opposed to having to rummage through your vest to find it.  It is a similar concept to the now famous "Zinger". Well, at the Denver show, there were 5 (FIVE) merchants who had copied his idea and were hawking their new "break-through" product. FLOTPAK had been patented for two years before the show. Flotpak is NOT rocket science…just a simple idea.  If you had the entire world market for the thing it still wouldn’t make a guy rich. 4) Darryl Osborn, of Hamilton, Mt, developed a great personal river float craft called "River Otter". I counted 9 spin-offs at that show.     The above tells me that the bloom is off the rose. Before FF, the social craze was  tennis..then golf..then mountain bikes..etc ..etc.. The GREAT news, from my vantage point, is that FF is no longer the sport of choice among the elite in NY, L.A. or wherever.      Well, its about time! I want to fish in peace. I do feel sorry for the fly shop owners, but the good ones will survive and prosper. Same with the guides. It was fun at first being a fan of the "in" sport ( made me feel like I was doing something important), but I’m glad the fad thing is fading away.  I just feel sorry for the fans of the next sport or pursuit that is ready to accepted by the media mainstream.      So..if we FFishers are finally free  of the avante garde crap, we will blissfully fish in peace! To quote Al Beatty "Halleilula!" Dale Owens

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A year ago I thought I would do a lot of flyfishing. I have since given up the ghost. I have for sale a complete set of Orvis 5 wt far and fine rod, battenkill reel,fully outfitted including aluminum case with cover. I paid over $425 for it. Would someone make me a offer and I will send out, immediately, to you. I also have a Wheatley 16 compartment aluminum fly box and about ten flys. This, I paid over $60 for (not  including flys)..it is still in the origional case unused. The Orvis Far and Fine set I used exactly three times.Anyone interested in making a serious offer either send me a note on this newsboard or contact me via

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: A year ago I thought I would do a lot of flyfishing. I have since given up the : ghost. This is r.o.f.f’s first post from beyond the grave…  I have for sale a complete set of Orvis 5 wt far and fine rod, battenkill : reel,fully outfitted including aluminum case with cover. I paid over $425 for it. : Would someone make me a offer and I will send out, immediately, to you. I also : have a Wheatley 16 compartment aluminum fly box and about ten flys. This, I : paid over $60 for (not  including flys)..it is still in the origional case unused. Ah, the Wheatly fly box- that gorgeous piece of work that looks so refined, so elegant, and so….British. As Geirach points out, everyone who buys one ends up leaving the damn bulky, heavy thing at home and carrying a little plastic box instead –mike

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A year ago I thought I would do a lot of flyfishing. I have since given up the ghost.

I’d like to see about 3 million more posts like this. John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS

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: A year ago I thought I would do a lot of flyfishing. I have since given : up… :I’d like to see about 3 million more posts like this. A couple weeks ago I talked to the guys at a major ff shop here in Seattle.  They said the ff business has "reached a plateau" after some years of continuous growth.  I wondered if perhaps the yuppwardly mobile set was bailing out.  They thought that might be a factor. Sadly, the staff at another (v. major) local ff shop got thinner recently too.  The guys at the first shop thought leaner times were to be blamed.   Best, -AR P.S.  Anybody interested in a lightly used Orvis Jeep?

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Question:

Howdy, I’m going to be in Salt Lake City the week of March 18th for Brainshare. I’m staying over for the weekend   following, and I’d like to fish a little. I’ll be able to take along a travel rod, but I won’t be able to   take waders. I’d appreciate any recommendations for spots in the area where I can fish from the bank. What   kind of flies should I use? How much is a one day (or two, or whatever they have) non-resident permit? Any   good shops there where I could pick up some flies? Thanks a bunch, Jay Jay Freeman WT9S                            Life Member, NRA

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        Jay,         First off you’re going to love Brainshare.  Novell does a really nice job with the show.  Many of my friends are in charge of it so I am a little bias. As far as fishing is concerned I would suggest many of the unheard of streams around the valley.  Many people go to the Provo or the Weber, both of those two rivers have very nice Browns, but unfortunately the whole rest of SLC knows this too.  Soooo if you like fishing shoulder to shoulder then go to the Provo. I would be glad to share a little of my secrets with you.  That is if you like to have 20 to 25 fish days. "Fish On!" Stacy Hale

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Try the Provo or the Green.  Try Steve Schmidt at Western Rivers for Provo information and guides – 801-521-6424.  For the Green, I call Denny Breer at Trout Creek – 801-889-3735.  

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Jay, There is not that much good fly fishing within a short drive of Salt Lake City, particulary in March.  The best bet is the Provo River, which is about a 45 min drive south on I 15, exit 275 just before you get to Provo.  Fishing can be tremendous on this river.  It is loaded with brown trout.  Many times the fishing varies with the flow level of the river, but in March the river should be fishable.  However, I’m not sure how much success you would have fishing from the shore.  To get to some of the productive holes and runs you have to wade and there are not that many clear bank areas along the river that allow you to easily toss your fly into good water.  Even if you don’t wade it’s worth the time to go down anyway.  Provo canyon is pretty.  As for flies I would recommend small nymphs, size 16 and up.  Keep the flies simple, just some pink or lite grey yarn wrapped around a hook will produce on this river.  Hare’s ears are good, brassies, pheasant tail, scuds, and serendipidities are very productive.  Be sure to weigth the nympth enough to get it to the bottom.  You’ll only occassionally see fish rise in this river.  As for a license.   I don’t remember what a non-resident day pass costs.  But I do know that Utah is not aggressive in ensuring people have fishing licenses.  For more info on where to fish contact Anglers Inn in Salt Lake or Western Rivers Fly Shop in Salt Lake.  I hope you have fun.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Howdy, I’m going to be in Salt Lake City the week of March 18th for Brainshare. I’m staying over for the weekend following, and I’d like to fish a little. I’ll be able to take along a travel rod, but I won’t be able to take waders. I’d appreciate any recommendations for spots in the area where I can fish from the bank. What kind of flies should I use? How much is a one day (or two, or whatever they have) non-resident permit? Any good shops there where I could pick up some flies? Thanks a bunch, Jay Jay Freeman WT9S                            Life Member, NRA

– Jay,   I work in a fly shop here in Provo and fish the Provo two to three times a week and its not too shabby.  Your time frame should put you in excellent shape for the spring baetis hatch.  A one day none resident liscence is $5 or $15 for three days.  The Provo is also good for non-waders in a lot of spots.  Its probalbly one of my favorite rivers to fish.  This weekend I picked up a lot of nice fish with midges on top.  Nothing beats dry fly action in the winter.  Check out my fly page for the latest info when you come.  Our shop is called Great Basin Fly and is located at 120 W Center ST in Provo.  We can fix you up with some good flies and info. Curtis Fry Fry’s Utah Fly Fishing Page http://www.et.byu.edu/~fryc

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Don’t forget the Bone’s on the flats of Great Salt lake…I hear it’s excellent that time of year with large schools of hungry bonefish finin’ just off shore!

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I would appreciate any information on fishing for steelhead or salmon around Vancouver in late October, particularly on wadeable river spots. Thanks in advance, RK —   /      RedKnight               | Chris McCarley   /      "I have seen the future |            and it is neural."      |

Try calling Ruddicks Fly Shop in Burnaby (Suburb of Van)

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I would appreciate any information on fishing for steelhead or salmon around Vancouver in late October, particularly on wadeable river spots. Thanks in advance, RK —   /      RedKnight               | Chris McCarley   /      "I have seen the future |            and it is neural."      |

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Question:

 Ok guys and gals, time to see how good this information highway really is. I live in the UP (of MI) and my fish is steelhead. I want to know more about the fish and its habits. Give me info about your steelhead experiences. Don’t tell me about what some author wrote in some book. I can read for myself. Tell me what your favorite s.h. fly is. Please don’t say whater the fish wants at the time. This may be true but it will not help me on the stream. What is the best time to go for s.h.   don’t say dates but rather include what the season is like. For example tell me if the trees were turning color, if there were no leaves, if there was lot’s of snow on the ground. Where do this fish prefer to spend time in the stream? If you fish in the UP give me some stream names or at least some clues. I will be wating for your answers with a cold nose, cold fingertips waist deep in the cold UP streams.                   Thanks                   Jake "I can’t get enough steelhead" Tulius

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writes: OK Jake here it goes.  During the fall when the salmon are spawning or just after they are finished I prefer egg imitation patterns such as a glo-bugs, nuclear glo-bugs and estes flies.  My best color has always been chartreuse and chart. and blue mix.  I have always thought that most people tie egg imitation to large, instead I have an assortment of small (#12) to large flies (#6).  During the winter glow bugs and dark colored nymphs (#14 -#10) work well.  Fishing is usually best for me during the first two hours after sunrise, until the water temp. dips below about 40 F.  During cold water I have yet to find any specific time that fish hit best, it seems to depend more on weather conditions than on time.           PS I landed a nine pounder today!!!!!                                                   Good Luck,                                                    Mark Arrigo

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writes: I live in the Portland OR. area so I don’t know if it is the same in your area. I use a fly that I tie myself. It’s a very simple red and black yarn, you start from the back and wrap up to the middle with the red and leave a little extra hanging off. Then finish wrapping to the eye with the black. I use this fly year round and do very well. Another thing that I do is fish smaller streams and spot the fish in the riffles. I use a piece of split shot about 18 inches above the fly and get it right down to the fish. My biggest fish so far with this method was a 15lb bright steelhead that had me running up and down the bank to land it. Just remember the fly has very little to do with it. The key is to spot the fishing and to get the fly right down to it.

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jake I have alot of steelhead experience… Ilove the fish escpecially when they are fresh out of the lake(lake erie in my case)  yesterday, the creeks were high and a whole new batch of them came up the creek.  I managed to hook 8 and only landed 4.  I use my 5wt. 8.5 foot sage.   use a 3x to 5x leader, and right now my fave is to use a #14 to #12 pink sucker spawn.  These look tantalizing  to the fish when they get wet. I weight them and use an indicator about 2 feet up. steelhead are most aggressive in the morning when the creeks are high and very colored.   That is the best time to go.   Yesterday I got my first fish right away and she was 29 inches, with a 17 inch girth.   went right into backing in about 5 seconds.   I use 2x strong #14 nymph hooks, and she bent the hell out of it.   stretches that old mono tippet righ out.  friggin exciting man. later…..

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Ok guys and gals, time to see how good this information highway really is. I live in the UP (of MI) and my fish is steelhead. I want to know more about the fish and its habits. Give me info about your steelhead experiences. Don’t tell me about what some author wrote in some book. I can read for myself. Tell me what your favorite s.h. fly is. Please don’t say whater the fish wants at the time. This may be true but it will not help me on the stream. What is the best time to go for s.h.   don’t say dates but rather include what the season is like. For example tell me if the trees were turning color, if there were no leaves, if there was lot’s of snow on the ground. Where do this fish prefer to spend time in the stream? If you fish in the UP give me some stream names or at least some clues. I will be wating for your answers with a cold nose, cold fingertips waist deep in the cold UP streams.                   Thanks                   Jake "I can’t get enough steelhead" Tulius

        I’ve only landed 1 steel head.  That was last November on the PM on a #8 green but skunk.  I dredged it out of the back of a deep hole in a bend in the river.  Those that I see out in the open are usually spooked before I can do anything about it.  I have tried brights and naturals, and I think I get more hits on the naturals.           Good luck in your quest, and maybe we’ll meet up on the river sometime. . Lenny Bloksberg . .

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