Question:

well said I think.  put another way: A $10000 body will produce the same results as a $100 one if you shoot the basics. Sunil www.lockon.f2s.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will probably be slammed by people thinking my reply is rude but here goes: If you have to ask this question you do not need an F5.  An F5 is a professional camera.  It is designed to withstand the rigors of pro use, and have the features we need when on location, regardless of the situation that comes up.  Buy the F100 or possibly the 90s.  Either of these cameras will save you close to $1000, and you can then buy better lenses.  One of the funniest things I see when working is I will be standing there with my F5 and my 80-200 AF-S, and someone will come up to me with an F5 and a tamron 28-200 lens on it and want to talk shop, and he has no clue what an f-stop is. Seriously, save your money, don’t spend it just because you have it.  You will be buying features you will NEVER use! Mike

Response:

Your right.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am not upset. I just wanted to point out some thing you didn’t mention. No offense intended. Relax, he didn’t say what he needed the camera to do.  He just asked if the F5 was worth the money.  You act like I insulted your mother — not your camera.  Jeez. The F5 has every feature available to a 35mm camera (as far as I know). You can do everything photographic with it.  The F100 has limitations. To me the F5 is cheaper than the F100 because of a few features it has over the F100.  The easily swappable focusing screens, mirror lock-up, interchangeable viewfinders, and 100% viewfinder are all virtually priceless features.  I believe the F100 lacks DOF preview though I cannot be sure at the moment.  Personally I would think Nikon could include at least a few of these features considering how expensive the F100 is.  If you can cough up enough for the F100 then keep coughing until you get the F5 in your hands. There are two advantages to the F100, weight and price. If you need MLU, 100% viewfinder, etc go for the F5. If weight is an issue, the F100 is a great camera body. BTW the F100 has DOF preview. — Tom Thackrey tom at creative-light.com www.creative-light.com —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

What do you mean by "can’t use"?, is it not possible to mount an AI or AIS lens to the camera?, or does the matrix metering not function with MF lenses? If you are referring to Pre-AI lenses then I could see that they couldn’t be mounted to the camera (due to the AI tooth).

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey greg, If you are going to recommend the N90s then why not the N80? I thought I read somewhere that the N80 is the only Nikon that can’t use the older lenses. If this is true IMO then that’s reason enough not to bother with one.

Response:

Hey greg, If you are going to recommend the N90s then why not the N80? I thought I read somewhere that the N80 is the only Nikon that can’t use the older lenses. If this is true IMO then that’s reason enough not to bother with one.

The AI and AIS Nikkors will mount to the N80, but the meter is inoperative. — Tony Polson

Response:

Not even the spot-meter!?!?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey greg, If you are going to recommend the N90s then why not the N80? I thought I read somewhere that the N80 is the only Nikon that can’t use the older lenses. If this is true IMO then that’s reason enough not to bother with one. The AI and AIS Nikkors will mount to the N80, but the meter is inoperative. — Tony Polson

Response:

Not even the spot-meter!?!?

Not even the spot meter.  The N80/F80 will meter only with lenses that have a built-in CPU.  All AF lenses will meter, plus all AI-P lenses.   Nothing else will meter. I found this very disappointing, as I think the N80/F80 is otherwise an excellent camera.  Had it metered with AI/AIS lenses, I would have bought one as a second body to go with my F3.   As it is, I bought an F4, sold the F3 and then bought an F4 as a second body to go with the first F4.  And I’ve steadily replaced my lenses over the last 5 months to the point where all but two are AF Nikkors.  So I’m now considering selling one F4 and replacing it with a smaller, lighter body, which includes just about every 35mm SLR camera ever made.  <g It will be either a used F100 or a new F80. — Tony Polson

Response:

The N80 is for the "new generation" of camera users. Those who start new in the AF line. It is not marketed as a retro camera. The camera’s metering system only works with AF lenses. Regards, Roger – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What do you mean by "can’t use"?, is it not possible to mount an AI or AIS lens to the camera?, or does the matrix metering not function with MF lenses? If you are referring to Pre-AI lenses then I could see that they couldn’t be mounted to the camera (due to the AI tooth). Hey greg, If you are going to recommend the N90s then why not the N80? I thought I read somewhere that the N80 is the only Nikon that can’t use the older lenses. If this is true IMO then that’s reason enough not to bother with one.

Response:

It will be either a used F100 or a new F80.

Why an F80 over an F90x?

Response:

I guess he wants the more advanced AF.  That’s the only thing these two camera have in common that the F90x lacks.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It will be either a used F100 or a new F80. Why an F80 over an F90x?

Response:

The F5 will probably make a much better door stop …. then again, you might be able to throw the F100 farther ….. just depends upon your priorities – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will probably be slammed by people thinking my reply is rude but here goes: If you have to ask this question you do not need an F5.  An F5 is a professional camera.  It is designed to withstand the rigors of pro use, and have the features we need when on location, regardless of the situation that comes up.  Buy the F100 or possibly the 90s.  Either of these cameras will save you close to $1000, and you can then buy better lenses.  One of the funniest things I see when working is I will be standing there with my F5 and my 80-200 AF-S, and someone will come up to me with an F5 and a tamron 28-200 lens on it and want to talk shop, and he has no clue what an f-stop is. Seriously, save your money, don’t spend it just because you have it.  You will be buying features you will NEVER use! Mike

Response:

Hey greg, If you are going to recommend the N90s then why not the N80?  Wouldn’t it be more for the money for someone shopping around for the N90s?

Following this line of logic, I suggest an N65 or a used EM. — Tony Polson

Response:

…or a $15 used Nikon L35AF.  The AF is certainly fast enough. ;^)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey greg, If you are going to recommend the N90s then why not the N80? Wouldn’t it be more for the money for someone shopping around for the N90s? Following this line of logic, I suggest an N65 or a used EM. — Tony Polson

Response:

Hey greg, If you are going to recommend the N90s then why not the N80?

I thought I read somewhere that the N80 is the only Nikon that can’t use the older lenses. If this is true IMO then that’s reason enough not to bother with one.

Response:

I am not upset. I just wanted to point out some thing you didn’t mention. No offense intended. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Relax, he didn’t say what he needed the camera to do.  He just asked if the F5 was worth the money.  You act like I insulted your mother — not your camera.  Jeez. The F5 has every feature available to a 35mm camera (as far as I know). You can do everything photographic with it.  The F100 has limitations. To me the F5 is cheaper than the F100 because of a few features it has over the F100.  The easily swappable focusing screens, mirror lock-up, interchangeable viewfinders, and 100% viewfinder are all virtually priceless features.  I believe the F100 lacks DOF preview though I cannot be sure at the moment.  Personally I would think Nikon could include at least a few of these features considering how expensive the F100 is.  If you can cough up enough for the F100 then keep coughing until you get the F5 in your hands. There are two advantages to the F100, weight and price. If you need MLU, 100% viewfinder, etc go for the F5. If weight is an issue, the F100 is a great camera body. BTW the F100 has DOF preview.

– Tom Thackrey tom at creative-light.com www.creative-light.com —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

I will probably be slammed by people thinking my reply is rude but here goes: If you have to ask this question you do not need an F5.  An F5 is a professional camera.  It is designed to withstand the rigors of pro use, and have the features we need when on location, regardless of the situation that comes up.  Buy the F100 or possibly the 90s.  Either of these cameras will save you close to $1000, and you can then buy better lenses.  One of the funniest things I see when working is I will be standing there with my F5 and my 80-200 AF-S, and someone will come up to me with an F5 and a tamron 28-200 lens on it and want to talk shop, and he has no clue what an f-stop is. Seriously, save your money, don’t spend it just because you have it.  You will be buying features you will NEVER use! Mike

Response:

I am planning to buy a new Nikon camra, question is if the F5 ist worth its money? The F100 is a cheaper and is it not as goog as the F5?

In some ways the F100 is better than the F5.  They are slightly different cameras, aimed at a slightly different market. The F5 is the latest development of the professional F range, starting with the 1959 Nikon F.  Like all its predecessors it has a 100% viewfinder, mirror lock up and easily interchangeable finders and focusing screens. The F100 is the latest development of the line that began with the F801 (N8008 in USA) and advanced through the F801s (N8008s), F90 (N90) and F90X (N90s) to the F100.  Whilst the F801 was aimed at amateurs, it was attractive to pros as a more compact body than its contemporary in the F range, the bulky and heavy F4, so it was perfectly logical to develop the camera into the pro tool the F100 is. The F100 has a 96% viewfinder, no mirror lock up and a limited range of focusing screens which are not very easy to change. The other differences are mainly in the metering; the F5 has RGB Matrix metering whereas the F100 has the most advanced version of Nikon’s 3D Matrix metering.  Both are state of the art metering systems, they are just different.  The F5 has the reputation of getting the exposure right all the time, and the F100 nearly all of the time, but I would hesitate to conclude that one is significantly better than the other. If you want a pro system SLR with easily interchangeable viewfinders and screens, or mirror lock up is essential to you, or RGB matrix metering attracts you, go for the F5.  If a lighter, more compact body (even with the MB-15 battery pack attached) attracts you, and mirror lock up is not absolutely vital, go for the F100. There is no wrong choice here; neither is "better".  Both are amongst the finest 35mm SLR cameras made; both are high quality rugged pro tools; both can help a good photographer produce outstanding results.   It’s a choice that many of us would like to have.  Good luck! — Tony Polson

Response:

Let’s take an F5 and make it run at 4.5 fps instead of 8.  Then let’s get rid of the interchangeable prism and make it a fixed prism.  Take away MLU and the color matrix meter, and you should be left with a camera that’s about $700+ cheaper.  Sounds like an F100?  Keep DOF in all modes however and add red color to hilite the area being focused on and the F100 seems quite reasonable. — Wes Jansen Feather Foto LaConner, WA

Personally I would think Nikon could – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – include at least a few of these features considering how expensive the F100 is.

Response:

Relax, he didn’t say what he needed the camera to do.  He just asked if the F5 was worth the money.  You act like I insulted your mother — not your camera.  Jeez.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The F5 has every feature available to a 35mm camera (as far as I know). You can do everything photographic with it.  The F100 has limitations. To me the F5 is cheaper than the F100 because of a few features it has over the F100.  The easily swappable focusing screens, mirror lock-up, interchangeable viewfinders, and 100% viewfinder are all virtually priceless features.  I believe the F100 lacks DOF preview though I cannot be sure at the moment.  Personally I would think Nikon could include at least a few of these features considering how expensive the F100 is.  If you can cough up enough for the F100 then keep coughing until you get the F5 in your hands. There are two advantages to the F100, weight and price. If you need MLU, 100% viewfinder, etc go for the F5. If weight is an issue, the F100 is a great camera body. BTW the F100 has DOF preview. — Tom Thackrey tom at creative-light.com www.creative-light.com —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Tom There are two advantages to the F100, weight and price. Three, actually: The F100 can be set to focus on the closest of the five autofocus sensors, and the F5 cannot — you have to select a sensor by hand. —

Response:

If you don’t need the AF speed then the Nikon F4 is a really great buy. The Nikon F3 or F2 with a handheld spot-meter would be a good buy too.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The F5 has every feature available to a 35mm camera (as far as I know). You can do everything photographic with it.  The F100 has limitations. To me the F5 is cheaper than the F100 because of a few features it has over the F100.  The easily swappable focusing screens, mirror lock-up, interchangeable viewfinders, and 100% viewfinder are all virtually priceless features.  I believe the F100 lacks DOF preview though I cannot be sure at the moment.  Personally I would think Nikon could include at least a few of these features considering how expensive the F100 is.  If you can cough up enough for the F100 then keep coughing until you get the F5 in your hands. Regards, dat I am planning to buy a new Nikon camra, question is if the F5 ist worth its money? The F100 is a cheaper and is it not as goog as the F5? Ren

Question:

I just got an old willow creel from a friend. The willow look pretty dry and there is no varnish to protect it. Since i want to use it when i’m fly fishing should i put something on it , if so what should i use; Varnish, linseed oil…….or is there any special product i should know of? Thanks for your help! Before you buy.

Response:

I just got an old willow creel from a friend. The willow look pretty dry and there is no varnish to protect it. Since i want to use it when i’m fly fishing should i put something on it , if so what should i use; Varnish, linseed oil…….or is there any special product i should know of?

Yo Robert.   I’m heading down to the fly shop today.   You get the latest FFA yet? Joe F.

Response:

Willow creels require no maintenance apart from a wash now and again. Line the creel with damp grass before placing fish in it. You may also soak the creel in the stream before placing fish in it.  The evaporation which then ensues helps keep the fish cool.  The grass also prevents too much slime from soaking into the creel itself and producing the most horrendous stink. TL MC — "If you have tried everything you know, and nothing works, then perhaps it is time to accept that you don

Question:

But one perennial that I would never be without would have to be hostas

can someone give some info or a website that gives info on the care of hostas Elaine in Dallas

Response:

But one perennial that I would never be without would have to be hostas can someone give some info or a website that gives info on the care of hostas Elaine in Dallas

Not much to it. Plant em in the shade, water em, occasionally toss some fertilizer under em, and kill snails.  About the only thing that can kill them is total lack of water (or maybe too much as in a bog), everything else just makes them look bad. — Lloyd Fortney http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney/ has links to my garden, flower, flyfishing, and travel JPEG images as well as teaching, research, and stuff like that

Response:

Question:

Eric was quick to say he thought whirling disease was a bad deal, that it undoubtedly played a significant part. But he (and others, increasingly) also pointed out that whirling disease seems to coincide with poor stream conditions: overly silted streambeds below damns or in badly cattle-tromped creeks, like lower Hound Creek and/or the Ruby.

You may have something with the contributing factors involved with WD. It seems to follow here in CO, the areas I know of that are hardest hit by WD are silted areas. Maybe silt is needed in the parasites life cycle. Anyone know if there’s been any research on this? One of the stretches of the Colorado that has lost almost all of its rainbow s under sixteen inches has numerous silty areas. It was an extremely good rainbow fishery before WD.  The remaining rainbows have been spawning successfully but are dying when young. Browns have started to fill in the void. Does anyone know if Cutts are as susceptible to WD as rainbows? Willi

Response:

What is the current thought on taking fish that are obviously infected? Is it in any way our responsibility to kill fish that are deformed and doomed to a slow miserable death? Is there a mechanism for reporting infected fish that are caught? I have no idea what the answers to my questions should be, can anyone pipe in and clear this up for me? Ben Holmes Boulder, CO

Response:

Sandy, I will not list your long post on why no rainbow in the Madison and is it/Isn’t it whirling disease…. just want to comment .. first of all their is an outstanding site on Whirling disease kept by the montana folks, which is easy to find with a search engine on "W… D… montana".   From this and following our local parasite problem … Piscacida (spelling???) something…. a dinoflagellant (again spelling???)…. seems they may both have some common elements… like nutrients, water flow and temperature AND the pest to make an impact…  Meaning some watersheds  without all of the other elements don’t necessarily kill fish… takes the whole package of things… might explain the logic… Anyway locally, we are Zeroing in on hog farms and chicken farms which at low water and high summer temps cause of a "bloom" and changes in the parasite and result in somewhat localized fish kills…  visit the WD site and read the stuff there…. truly first rate research …. for some good insight…. Alan E. Hoover       to quote one of my favorite authors: "Fly fishing is such great fun, it really ought to be done in bed"  John Voelker, aka Robert Traver

Response:

It’s my understanding that trout can only be infected during the first six months of their life cycle and as long as they make it to a year they will survive even with deformities. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Silt is important in the parasites life cycle. The WD organism uses a tubifex worm as an intermediate host. It cycles between these worms and the trout. The tubifex worms are a small earthworm-like creature that occurs in silty bottoms of streams. Siltation has been identified as one major factor contributing to the incidence of whirling disease in an area. Cutthroat are susceptible. I think most salmonids are, except for coho salmon and slpake. The disease causes most damage when very young fish (newly hatched) are infected, so any species that has oyung present at the time the free-living, infective stage of the parasite is in the water is at risk. Damage decreases with  fish age since the parasite mostly destroys cartilage. Fish that are a few years old tend to be less damaged by the parasite. Eric was quick to say he thought whirling disease was a bad deal, that it undoubtedly played a significant part. But he (and others, increasingly) also pointed out that whirling disease seems to coincide with poor stream conditions: overly silted streambeds below damns or in badly cattle-tromped creeks, like lower Hound Creek and/or the Ruby. You may have something with the contributing factors involved with WD. It seems to follow here in CO, the areas I know of that are hardest hit by WD are silted areas. Maybe silt is needed in the parasites life cycle. Anyone know if there’s been any research on this? One of the stretches of the Colorado that has lost almost all of its rainbow s under sixteen inches has numerous silty areas. It was an extremely good rainbow fishery before WD.  The remaining rainbows have been spawning successfully but are dying when young. Browns have started to fill in the void. Does anyone know if Cutts are as susceptible to WD as rainbows?

– Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm

Response:

Silt is important in the parasites life cycle. The WD organism uses a tubifex worm as an intermediate host. It cycles between these worms and the trout. The tubifex worms are a small earthworm-like creature that occurs in silty bottoms of streams. Siltation has been identified as one major factor contributing to the incidence of whirling disease in an area. Cutthroat are susceptible. I think most salmonids are, except for coho salmon and slpake. The disease causes most damage when very young fish (newly hatched) are infected, so any species that has oyung present at the time the free-living, infective stage of the parasite is in the water is at risk. Damage decreases with  fish age since the parasite mostly destroys cartilage. Fish that are a few years old tend to be less damaged by the parasite. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Eric was quick to say he thought whirling disease was a bad deal, that it undoubtedly played a significant part. But he (and others, increasingly) also pointed out that whirling disease seems to coincide with poor stream conditions: overly silted streambeds below damns or in badly cattle-tromped creeks, like lower Hound Creek and/or the Ruby. You may have something with the contributing factors involved with WD. It seems to follow here in CO, the areas I know of that are hardest hit by WD are silted areas. Maybe silt is needed in the parasites life cycle. Anyone know if there’s been any research on this? One of the stretches of the Colorado that has lost almost all of its rainbow s under sixteen inches has numerous silty areas. It was an extremely good rainbow fishery before WD.  The remaining rainbows have been spawning successfully but are dying when young. Browns have started to fill in the void. Does anyone know if Cutts are as susceptible to WD as rainbows? Willi

– Tim Lysyk http://www.telusplanet.net/public/timlysyk http://www.telusplanet.net/public/cnangler/html

Response:

A few years ago–when the news about whirling disease in Montana’s Madison river first broke–I remember getting in    He was angry at the Montana Fish and Game. He agreed that whirling disease existed in the river, and thought it played a role in the dramatic rainbow population decline. But he thought it was a minor role, and suspected that whirling disease may well have been present for years: even during the years of plenty. He attributed the dramatic decline to a major loss of spawing habitat in Slide Inn area, where shallow spawing runs had been whiped out in a high water year some 5-6 years back….and to too many fishermen trompling the few remaining spawing beds during the early season spawn. I was pissed off at him, because I liked (still do) Dick Vincent and his cohorts at the Fish and Game department. So we exchanged poison email for a while, and then we both took a powder. spent yesterday skiing with an old friend: Eric Shores, who has been guiding the madison forever (doesn’t seem like too long ago that Eric and Randy and George and George and Paul and a host of other guides were the young interlopers, and now we’re all 40-50 or more, and the old vets, it seems). Anyway, back to the main point. Eric said "yes, it’s true" the rainbow fishing is way off up the river. But says it’s as good or better than it ever was below Varney bridge. That section of the river has always been mostly browns anyway, but there were and are plenty of good rainbows too. ..that spawn in the channels above Ennis lake. And Eric pointed out how bad the Slide Inn area looks. I can’t deny it. What once was a series of dandy little side channels below Quake Lake has been a deep-fast flood channel for years. Even more interesting is the fact that whirling disease has been discovered in a dozen or more other locations across Montana–but without the dramatic drop in rainbow populations. Eric was quick to say he thought whirling disease was a bad deal, that it undoubtedly played a significant part. But he (and others, increasingly) also pointed out that whirling disease seems to coincide with poor stream conditions: overly silted streambeds below damns or in badly cattle-tromped creeks, like lower Hound Creek and/or the Ruby.   It’s also interesting to note that it’s hard to raise money in a cattle state for stream-bank habitat improvement projects, and a hell of a lot easier to raise (big) money for researching whirling disease. I still like and respect most of the people I know at Montana Fish and Game. But I don’t necessarily swallow their line. At least not completely. Not any more. I’d like to hear what others think, especially if they think they have something new to say about this subject. —  * Center for Computational Biology    * Montana State Bozeman  (406) 994-7061  * http://www.nervana.montana.edu/~sandy */

Response:

 It is interesting that the flow data from MT. Power at Hebgen lake is missing for the years that the Slide area was scoured by flood like flows that changed the upper river. WD was  "discovered" shortly there after. The idea that the spawning beds where washed away is not new , just not put forth as much. I do think that the flooding had a tremendous effect that has been minimized .   Harry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -A few years ago–when the news about whirling disease in Montana’s Madison river first broke–I remember getting in   He was angry at the Montana Fish and Game. He agreed that whirling disease existed in the river, and thought it played a role in the dramatic rainbow population decline. But he thought it was a minor role, and suspected that whirling disease may well have been present for years: even during the years of plenty. He attributed the dramatic decline to a major loss of spawing habitat in Slide Inn area, where shallow spawing runs had been whiped out in a high water year some 5-6 years back….and to too many fishermen trompling the few remaining spawing beds during the early season spawn. I was pissed off at him, because I liked (still do) Dick Vincent and his cohorts at the Fish and Game department. So we exchanged poison email for a while, and then we both took a powder. spent yesterday skiing with an old friend: Eric Shores, who has been guiding the madison forever (doesn’t seem like too long ago that Eric and Randy and George and George and Paul and a host of other guides were the young interlopers, and now we’re all 40-50 or more, and the old vets, it seems). Anyway, back to the main point. Eric said "yes, it’s true" the rainbow fishing is way off up the river. But says it’s as good or better than it ever was below Varney bridge. That section of the river has always been mostly browns anyway, but there were and are plenty of good rainbows too. ..that spawn in the channels above Ennis lake. And Eric pointed out how bad the Slide Inn area looks. I can’t deny it. What once was a series of dandy little side channels below Quake Lake has been a deep-fast flood channel for years. Even more interesting is the fact that whirling disease has been discovered in a dozen or more other locations across Montana–but without the dramatic drop in rainbow populations. Eric was quick to say he thought whirling disease was a bad deal, that it undoubtedly played a significant part. But he (and others, increasingly) also pointed out that whirling disease seems to coincide with poor stream conditions: overly silted streambeds below damns or in badly cattle-tromped creeks, like lower Hound Creek and/or the Ruby.   It’s also interesting to note that it’s hard to raise money in a cattle state for stream-bank habitat improvement projects, and a hell of a lot easier to raise (big) money for researching whirling disease. I still like and respect most of the people I know at Montana Fish and Game. But I don’t necessarily swallow their line. At least not completely. Not any more. I’d like to hear what others think, especially if they think they have something new to say about this subject.

Response:

You may have something with the contributing factors involved with WD. It seems to follow here in CO, the areas I know of that are hardest hit by WD are silted areas. Maybe silt is needed in the parasites life cycle. Anyone know if there’s been any research on this? One of the stretches of the Colorado that has lost almost all of its rainbow s under sixteen inches has numerous silty areas. It was an extremely good rainbow fishery before WD.  The remaining rainbows have been spawning successfully but are dying when young. Browns have started to fill in the void. Does anyone know if Cutts are as susceptible to WD as rainbows?

Hi, The silt is the medium that supports the tubifex worms which carry the whirling disease spores.   Whenever you have whirling disease in a river you will find the biggest problem around areas with a lot of silt.  The tubifex worms carry the spores and live in the silt, the trout eat the worms, the spores infect the trout, the trout dies and spreads more of the spores, the worms feed on the decaying trout and the cycle starts all over again.  The spores do not become active until they are introduced into the trouts system.   The disease orignally came over from Europe with some infected brown trout.  It is a hatcery disease and is not naturally ocurring in the wild in the US, but is almost impossible to eliminate once it gains a foothold.  The sores can lie dormant for 30 years until they are ingested and are impervious to bleach and other cleansers which have been used in the hatchery races to try to eliminate them.  One report quoted a hatchery in Russia that was dried out for 30 years, then re-used and the fish all became infected. Montana was running a test program where they were trying to re-introduce the native cutthroat into the Madison river.  They have kept the native strain alive in a few hatcheries since in the wild both rainbows and brown trout out-compete them.  The idea was to identify some tributaries to the Madison with little or no siltation (and population of tubifex worms) and hopefully no evidence of WD.  They would plant the native Cuts in these tributaries. Cutthroat have exhibited the behavior of staying in their spawning tributaries for at least a year or two after hatching which may be the key to their survival.  Rainbows on the other hand return to the main stem much sooner after hatching.  WD attacks, deforms and kills young fish (older fish can survive an infestation) and the hope was that they would stay in the tribs long enough to escape the early infestation that can devestate rainbow populations.   By the time they return to the main stem which carries the disease, they are old enough to be able to survive it. Haven’t heard anything on this recently and lost the url of Montana’s fish and game site.  Would be worth doing a search on for more info, or perhaps someone on the ng has the url handy and will post it.                        Hope this helps,                                 Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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Question:

Hi, I missed the original post, but if it’s tailing loops, Dan is right on – the timings the thing. I would just add that you might also check that ou are indeed throwing the line "up and over". I find that many problems originate when a caster is just whipping the rod, rather than concentrating on putting the fly line up and over the shoulder, this ensures a straight take away, and does a lot to prevent side loops, which most people confuse with tailing loops. Just a thought…. Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dan, I have to say that your recent series of posts has been one of the most helpful things I have ever seen in this newsgroup. I’m sure a lot of us have learned from it, even those of us who have been fishing for a while (I can still tail the odd loop just fine after twenty years with a fly rod). We might even have to stop bitching about Orivs for a while… (-: Andrew Andrew N. Herd Associate Editor, Waterlog Magazine http://www.demon.co.uk/medlarpress/ writes: If the timing is bad, the line drops well below the plane on the forward cast before you bring it forward and it can hit the line.  Practicing your casting at times other than just when you’re fishing can go a long way to develop the sense of timing needed to correct this.  A practical exercise to allow you to see the cast without swiveling your shoulders (swiveling shoulders causes you to throw hooks in your cast) is to either use a side-arm cast, or angle your body at about 60 degrees to the target so you can move your head to watch the back cast extend without moving your shoulders. Snip                        Hope this helps,                                Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

– Bill Curry Tight Lines Guide Service Lockeport, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.tightlines.ns.ca

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This is one of the best explanations/techniques I have heard for identifying this problem!!!  A couple years ago I was throwing tailing loop after tailing loop.  Since it was the end of the day and I had gotten up at 4:00am I just figured I was tired and decided to call it a day.  Just then (of course) a big brown noisily slurped a hopper and I decided on "just a couple more casts". I promptly threw a tailing loop AND tangled in an overhanging branch.  I snapped off the leader.  When preparing to tie on a new one I noticed a crack in the flyline about 2 or 3" up from the leader.  I trimmed the line, tied on a new leader and proceeded to make several casts that were better than most I had thrown all afternoon.  Now I have a technique for identifying the problem rather than lucking out.  Thanks! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: If anyone can help me I could really use some advice (and I really don’t want to hear anything about my socks not matching my shoes).  I consider myself an intermediate fly caster, but I occassionally will get a closing loop where the leader will actually wrap itself around the loop.  I read in a book that it can be caused by accelerating into the foreward cast too soon and not smoothly accelerating. Does anyone else have some advice? All opinions are appreciated. Hi Dana, Before you start worrying about your casting technique, take a quick look at the junction of the leader to the fly line.  If it is cracked so that it hinges instead of transferring energy smoothly, no amount of casting modification will make it work. Perfectly executed casts with this mechanical problem will throw tailing loops. If you’re not sure whether or not the junction causes a hinge, here’s a simple test: 1.  Hold the fly line in one hand and the leader in the other with the junction in the middle and about 6" of material on each side of it. 2.  Push your hands together until they are about 6" apart.  This should form an upside down "U"  in the line. 3.  Raise one hand while lowering the other.  This will roll the junction over the upside down "U" in the line. 4.  If it rolls over smoothly then your casting technique is the problem. If one side collapses instead of rolling over, then you have a mechanical "hinging" problem.  If you use too fine of a diameter monofilament for the butt section of your leader, that will cause hinging on the leader side – If you use too heavy of a diameter mono for the butt section it will cause the fly line to collapse.  Any crack that is serious enough to cause casting problems becomes immediately apparent with this test.  In any case the answer is to cut off the old junction and replace it with one of the right size.  You will often have to cut off a few inches of the fly line if it’s badly cracked. I’ll address some casting options in another post.                            Hope this helps,                                      Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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Dan, I have to say that your recent series of posts has been one of the most helpful things I have ever seen in this newsgroup. I’m sure a lot of us have learned from it, even those of us who have been fishing for a while (I can still tail the odd loop just fine after twenty years with a fly rod). We might even have to stop bitching about Orivs for a while… (-: Andrew Andrew N. Herd Associate Editor, Waterlog Magazine http://www.demon.co.uk/medlarpress/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: If the timing is bad, the line drops well below the plane on the forward cast before you bring it forward and it can hit the line.  Practicing your casting at times other than just when you’re fishing can go a long way to develop the sense of timing needed to correct this.  A practical exercise to allow you to see the cast without swiveling your shoulders (swiveling shoulders causes you to throw hooks in your cast) is to either use a side-arm cast, or angle your body at about 60 degrees to the target so you can move your head to watch the back cast extend without moving your shoulders.

Snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –                        Hope this helps,                                Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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Hi Dana, It sounds like the old trailing loop syndrome.  We all start off with it as a throw back to the spinning rod. Your book is correct. I’ve taught many people how to cast and they all go through this problem.  Most seem to correct the problem once they’ve heard the problem explained in a way that makes sense to them. So I’ll explain it in a different way. Hold your rod out directly straight from you and push down. Notice the Tip of the rod goes up before it goes down with the rest of the rod. When you start a cast the same thing happens. If you apply too much power too soon the rod tip goes down before it goes forward. The line simply follows along going down before it comes up. Sometimes catching itself on the way back up. Any power applied before the tip of the rod reaches the 12:00 position will cause the rod tip to go down before forward. Therefore the majority of power must be applied after the tip of the rod has past the butt. Good Luck — William Endicott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anyone can help me I could really use some advice (and I really don’t want to hear anything about my socks not matching my shoes).  I consider myself an intermediate fly caster, but I occassionally will get a closing loop where the leader will actually wrap itself around the loop.  I read in a book that it can be caused by accelerating into the foreward cast too soon and not smoothly accelerating. Does anyone else have some advice? All opinions are appreciated. Thanks, Dana

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Something that improved my casting was to convince myself there was no difference between the back and forward cast.  I started false casting 30′ of line and slowly rotated while keeping the line going in the same direction until I was facing what was my back cast.  When I could rotate 360 degrees under the cast and keep it going smoothly with tight loops and not shock the line or have tailing loops, my attitude toward the mechanics of casting changed and my casting improved. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anyone can help me I could really use some advice (and I really don’t want to hear anything about my socks not matching my shoes).  I consider myself an intermediate fly caster, but I occassionally will get a closing loop where the leader will actually wrap itself around the loop.  I read in a book that it can be caused by accelerating into the foreward cast too soon and not smoothly accelerating. Does anyone else have some advice? All opinions are appreciated. Thanks, Dana

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writes: If anyone can help me I could really use some advice (and I really don’t want to hear anything about my socks not matching my shoes).  I consider myself an intermediate fly caster, but I occassionally will get a closing loop where the leader will actually wrap itself around the loop.  I read in a book that it can be caused by accelerating into the foreward cast too soon and not smoothly accelerating. Does anyone else have some advice? All opinions are appreciated.

Hi Dana, Before you start worrying about your casting technique, take a quick look at the junction of the leader to the fly line.  If it is cracked so that it hinges instead of transferring energy smoothly, no amount of casting modification will make it work. Perfectly executed casts with this mechanical problem will throw tailing loops. If you’re not sure whether or not the junction causes a hinge, here’s a simple test: 1.  Hold the fly line in one hand and the leader in the other with the junction in the middle and about 6" of material on each side of it. 2.  Push your hands together until they are about 6" apart.  This should form an upside down "U"  in the line. 3.  Raise one hand while lowering the other.  This will roll the junction over the upside down "U" in the line. 4.  If it rolls over smoothly then your casting technique is the problem.  If one side collapses instead of rolling over, then you have a mechanical "hinging" problem.  If you use too fine of a diameter monofilament for the butt section of your leader, that will cause hinging on the leader side – If you use too heavy of a diameter mono for the butt section it will cause the fly line to collapse.  Any crack that is serious enough to cause casting problems becomes immediately apparent with this test.  In any case the answer is to cut off the old junction and replace it with one of the right size.  You will often have to cut off a few inches of the fly line if it’s badly cracked. I’ll address some casting options in another post.                             Hope this helps,                                       Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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writes: If anyone can help me I could really use some advice (and I really don’t want to hear anything about my socks not matching my shoes).  I consider myself an intermediate fly caster, but I occassionally will get a closing loop where the leader will actually wrap itself around the loop.  I read in a book that it can be caused by accelerating into the foreward cast too soon and not smoothly accelerating. Does anyone else have some advice? All opinions are appreciated.

Besides the mechanical problems addressed in another post, your casting technique can certainly cause this problem. The two most common causes are bad timing, and the afore-mentioned jerky accelleration.  If the timing is bad, the line drops well below the plane on the forward cast before you bring it forward and it can hit the line.  Practicing your casting at times other than just when you’re fishing can go a long way to develop the sense of timing needed to correct this.  A practical exercise to allow you to see the cast without swiveling your shoulders (swiveling shoulders causes you to throw hooks in your cast) is to either use a side-arm cast, or angle your body at about 60 degrees to the target so you can move your head to watch the back cast extend without moving your shoulders.   For the side-arm cast, lay the rod out directly in front of you with the reel pointed in the direction of the target (not pointed down at the ground *very important*).  Use a slicing motion, not a scooping motion to make the cast while keeping your shoulders perfectly still.  You can watch the loop travel in both directions and you can easily see the width of the casting arc you’re using.  By changing the width of this casting arc you can widen or tighten your loops.  *Dont wait for the line to straighten out entirely* before you start your forward cast.  It takes a split second reaction time to initiate the forward cast and if you wait until it straightens out entirely it will fall considerably and bleed off energy before you actually start your forward cast. Reaction time is different for everyone and you have to find out just when is right by trial and error.  For starters pick a spot a foot or two back from the end of the fly line, and when the unrolling loop reaches that point, start your forward cast.  Adjust this distance farther back from the end of the fly line or closer to it as needed.  When you hit it "spot on" the fly will just sort of stop for a split second in mid-air.  That’s perfect.  The good news is that it doesn’t have to be perfect, but the closer you can get to it the more efficient your casting will be. Bad accelleration is a more common problem with tailing loops and it becomes particularly noticeable when making longer casts or when casting in windy conditions.  The tendency is to put a lot more force into the rod and that usually results in jerking it forward.  This sudden jerk causes the rod to load (flex) suddenly and then unload (straighten) slightly because less energy is used to finish the stroke than start it.  This causes the rod tip to travel in a concave or U shape and will always throw a tailing loop.   Extra power can be added to a casting stroke, but it must be at the very end – "Accellerate to a Stop".  If this is the problem, try stopping the rod more suddenly at the end of the stroke instead of hitting it harder at the start. Another option that will result in the same thing is to start the beginning of your cast by pulling on the rod, not jerking it.  With proper accelleration and the right casting arc, your rod tip will travel in a straight line "—-" from start through the flexing and to the finish which will throw a tight efficient loop.                         Hope this helps,                                 Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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If anyone can help me I could really use some advice (and I really don’t want to hear anything about my socks not matching my shoes).  I consider myself an intermediate fly caster, but I occassionally will get a closing loop where the leader will actually wrap itself around the loop.  I read in a book that it can be caused by accelerating into the foreward cast too soon and not smoothly accelerating. Does anyone else have some advice? All opinions are appreciated. Thanks, Dana

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http://www.execpc.com./~glsfc/fish-wisc.

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I am planning a trip to Mayville WI. sometime in the spring or summer. I want to do a little flyfishing need a little help on where to go in the area. Mayville is due south of Fond du Lac maybe 20 miles and west of Hywy 41 by about 10 or so. I havent been there for 30 years but want to combine a trip to visit relatives with some fishing. I live in Seattle and do mostly lake fishing here and I want to do river or stream fishing back there… My fishing is for small fish. Hopefully trout but bass or blugill would be OK. I am going to use a 8 ft. 5 wt. fly rod. I would really like to do only streams as that is what I want to learn. I will have to rent a car there so a hours drive would be just perfect. 2 hours would be pushing it but possible if the reward was there.

Martin:         Let me do a little thinking and map looking and I’ll get back to you. I’m not in that area but know of it and might be able to help. A couple of nice streams suggest themselves right off but I’d rather try to look first and advise later rather than mucking things up the other way around.         You know one of the problems with doing what you are thinking of doing can be best realized by imagining a guy coming to your area and trying to have a good time of it without a scintilla of the hard-won experience you’ve got as to where to go, when, using what equipment, flies, etc., etc. I.e., it might make sense to think about getting a guide if you can swing the dough? Even if only for a 1/2 day (if they go along with same); sometimes they can turn you on to just enough that you can take it from there.         But I’ll get back to you with what I can dig up about the area you’ll be visiting in any case. Tom Burczyk The workings of great institutions is mainly the result of a vast mass of routine, petty malice, self-interest, carelessness, and sheer mistake. Only a residual fraction is thought." Santayana

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Try this site: — http://www.execpc.com/~glsfc/fish_wi

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am planning a trip to Mayville WI. sometime in the spring or summer. I want to do a little flyfishing need a little help on where to go in the area. Mayville is due south of Fond du Lac maybe 20 miles and west of Hywy 41 by about 10 or so. I havent been there for 30 years but want to combine a trip to visit relatives with some fishing. I live in Seattle and do mostly lake fishing here and I want to do river or stream fishing back there. Any suggestions? Martin:         You might want to indicate what kind of fishing you are interested in. For steelhead/salmon on Lake Michigan’s tribs, or inland? Warmwater or cold? How far you willing to travel? tgb

My fishing is for small fish. Hopefully trout but bass or blugill would be OK. I am going to use a 8 ft. 5 wt. fly rod. I would really like to do only streams as that is what I want to learn. I will have to rent a car there so a hours drive would be just perfect. 2 hours would be pushing it but possible if the reward was there. Thanks for the suggestion.

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I am planning a trip to Mayville WI. sometime in the spring or summer. I want to do a little flyfishing need a little help on where to go in the area. Mayville is due south of Fond du Lac maybe 20 miles and west of Hywy 41 by about 10 or so. I havent been there for 30 years but want to combine a trip to visit relatives with some fishing. I live in Seattle and do mostly lake fishing here and I want to do river or stream fishing back there. Any suggestions? Martin — Martin Jensen

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I am planning a trip to Mayville WI. sometime in the spring or summer. I want to do a little flyfishing need a little help on where to go in the area. Mayville is due south of Fond du Lac maybe 20 miles and west of Hywy 41 by about 10 or so. I havent been there for 30 years but want to combine a trip to visit relatives with some fishing. I live in Seattle and do mostly lake fishing here and I want to do river or stream fishing back there. Any suggestions?

Martin:         You might want to indicate what kind of fishing you are interested in. For steelhead/salmon on Lake Michigan’s tribs, or inland? Warmwater or cold? How far you willing to travel? tgb

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Question:

A new client will have me spending a fair amount of time in Phoenix. Where do I fish (trout or bass, not picky) in this desert…or do I have to take up (ugh) golf?

Hi Steph, Call Jim Fraijo at Arizona Outdoors in Tempe.  He has always shared information freely with me (602-968-3868). — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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A new client will have me spending a fair amount of time in Phoenix. Where do I fish (trout or bass, not picky) in this desert…or do I have to take up (ugh) golf?

Scope out the AZ FF site at: http://www.azlink.com/~jshannon/ DawsonH

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A new client will have me spending a fair amount of time in Phoenix. Where do I fish (trout or bass, not picky) in this desert…or do I have to take up (ugh) golf?

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Question:

Went to the Orvis School in Vermont. Got my money’s worth but in retrospect not a neccesity to learn. Specifically helpful with casting technique. Get a good book on the basics of fly fishing before you go to any class anywhere. Then decide if you really want to go. Great sport.

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writes: As a newcomer to fly fishing, I would like to start the right way. I am considering travelling to Colorado to attend the Orvis fly fishing school, and then spend a few days fishing in the area. I would like to hear from people that have taken the class about their experience, both good and bad.  Is it worth all the expense? Thanks.  Avi

I just completed the Orvis Fly Fishing school at their corporate headquarters in Vermont.  Most of the time is spent on the mechanics of casting (including many different types.  Only about 1/2 day si spent on the river, but you can go on the river after the class. I thought it was great.  I feel like I learned so much on reading water, tying the knots, casting and the equipment, and even bugs. I would recommend it! Mac

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As a newcomer to fly fishing, I would like to start the right way. I am considering travelling to Colorado to attend the Orvis fly fishing school, and then spend a few days fishing in the area. I would like to hear from people that have taken the class about their experience, both good and bad.  Is it worth all the expense? Thanks.  Avi

Of course Avi, I think you should travel a little farther out west and attend one of my schools at the Arcularius Ranch near Mammoth Lakes in the Eastern Sierra, or at the Clearwater House on Hat Creek in Northern California.  The classes are small & I understand the instructors are excellent ;^  (I’m one of the instructors). E-mail me if you’re interested.                                              Thanks,                                                   Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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As a newcomer to fly fishing, I would like to start the right way. I am considering travelling to Colorado to attend the Orvis fly fishing school, and then spend a few days fishing in the area. I would like to hear from people that have taken the class about their experience, both good and bad.  Is it worth all the expense? Thanks.  Avi Team OS/2                  847.808.3913

How can I answer your question delicately…  NO- it might be alot of fun but there is another way to learn flyfishing. Get to know some of the local oldtimers in the streams where you live.  This is not necessarily easy to do but there are some great benefits- they know the waters local to you, know the hatches and patterns and best of all they can become friends to go fish with. One suggestion- a flyfisherman with all the gear (ie "decked out by cabela’s") doesn’t always know whats going on. Best wishes- you’ve selected a wonderful new hobby. Lee Clore "flyfishing is life"

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I have been to the school in evergreen, CO. You are right it is costly. I HAVE BEEN FLYFISHING FOR ABOUT THREE YEARS AND GOT SOMETHING OUT OF THE PROGRAM. BUT, THIS PROGRAM I SUGGEST FOR THE NEW COMER ONLY.IT IS BASIC. HOWEVER, THE STAFF IS GREAT.  THEY TAKE YOU TO A STOCKED POND THAT IS FILLED WITH FISH IN A WELL DEVELOPED AREA(YOU CAN WATCH TV THROUGH THE WINDOW OF THE HOUSES THAT ARE ALL AROUND}. fOR MY MONEY GET AN ORVIS GUIDE AND TELL THEM YOU WANT A HALF DAY OF LAND INSTRUCTION. tHEM GO TO THE CHESMEN CAYON TO FISH. NOT THE SOUTH PLATEE. READ/READ/READ THEN YOU WILOL GET MORE FROM THE INSTRUCTION

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You had better believe it.  I went to VT for mine…

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It depends on where you live.  Orvis has schools all over the country; go to the one nearest you.  I got started several years ago by going to the Orvis school near NYC in the Catskills.  They teach you the basics, with emphasis on casting on a trout pond.  I then hired one of the instructors (who, it turned out, went to high school with my wife) to take me onto the Beaverkill.  As a newbie, you don’t need the challenge of Rocky Mountain fishing.  Start in a river where you’ll likely catch fish, then move up to the harder (and more expensive) stuff.

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As a newcomer to fly fishing, I would like to start the right way. I am considering travelling to Colorado to attend the Orvis fly fishing school, and then spend a few days fishing in the area. I would like to hear from people that have taken the class about their experience, both good and bad.  Is it worth all the expense? Thanks.  Avi Team OS/2                  847.808.3913

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Question:

I’ve got to chime in on this.  I spent two weeks in Montana in 1994 (the Missouri below Holter Dam) and the Madison (roughly Hebgen to Varney Bridge.  This year I spent three weeks, the Missouri, all the Missoula area rivers, especially the Clark Fork, plus short forays to the MF of the Flathead, the Kootenai, and St. Joe in Idaho. Both trips were in July. The fishing both times was terrific, although, this year especially, there were long slow periods in the afternoons, followed by explosive fishing on the caddis hatch at dusk (9:00 to 9:30 PM). People did comment that there seemed to be fewer rainbows than usual last year in the Madison; this was before the word got out broadly about the Whirling Disease. The guides I spoke to and others all said this year was slow because of the high water levels.  Nevertheless, these five weeks represent far and away the best fishing of my life.  I caught a lot of fish, most of them ‘bows. A couple of suggestions.  Use a guide at least once or twice in each area. Last year I had a guide several times floating the Missouri; this year I took a drift boat alone several days, which was essential because the river was so high as to be virtually unwadeable. Delay making your plans as long as possible and check the flow reports on http://wwwdmthln.cr.usgs.gov/www/realtime/rt_latest_table.html.  If volumes are as high next spring as last, a trip later in the summer is suggested, and of course, if flows are as low as 1994 an early trip is recommended– some rivers, including the Madison, were closed for part of 1994 because of the water levels and temperatures. And, as someone in this thread commented, you’re going to be fishing in some of the most beautiful country you’ll ever see.

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I second all of Lyman’s comments, and want to add a few. Even on the Madison, we caught numerous Rainbows in the Raynolds Pass and $3 Bridge areas. Most were VERY nice fish in the 16-22" range just a few weeks ago. No sign of the disease on these fish. I did see some sign of the disease on one fish of about 12" I caught a little further down stream. We caugh some nice Browns also, but actually, the Rainbows outnumbered the Browns suprisingly. Kevin Williams

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I second all of Lyman’s comments, and want to add a few. Even on the Madison, we caught numerous Rainbows in the Raynolds Pass and $3 Bridge areas. Most were VERY nice fish in the 16-22" range just a few weeks ago. No sign of the disease on these fish. I did see some sign of the disease on one fish of about 12" I caught a little further down stream. We caugh some nice Browns also, but actually, the Rainbows outnumbered the Browns suprisingly. Kevin Williams

What Kevin reports is not surprising.  The best information availble is that WD was introduced into the Madison by illegal stocking in the Wolf Creek area.  That is *downstream* from $3 bridge and Reynolds Bridge.  There is no evidence at this time that the disease moves upstream.  In addition, fish in the 16"-22" range are probably lder than the time when the disease came into the river.  The fish are only susceptible to the disease when they are very young, probably only a few months old. Keven is absolutely correct that in the upper stretches below Quake Lake, the Rainbow are quite plentiful. Lyman Hughes Ennis, MT Dallas, TX

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: My friend, who usually outfishes me, and I were once fishing on Hot : Creek.  I found a fly that worked, while he was doing poorly. Finally : he found the "right" fly.  He then hooked a bird on the wing, foul : hooked that is. My buddy Bob once hooked a bat on Hot Creek at dusk.  Guess it was after his imitation.    -Craig — As I walk through this wicked world, Searching for light in the darkness of insanity, I ask myself, "Is all hope lost? Is there only pain and hatred and misery?" And each time I feel like this inside, There’s one thing I want to know: What’s so funny about peace, love, and understanding?  -Elvis, 1978

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     I was night fishing the Battenkill near Arlington a few years ago, and hooked a branch on my back cast.  It surprised the heck out of me when the branch started flopping around in the water ahead of me.    … The first and, hopefully, last bat I’ve ever hooked!!

I’ve had flies grabbed by bats twice, once on the Pigeon and once on the Escanaba.  I took it as a compliment to my fly-tying.  If you’d ever seen my flies, you’d understand why I take any compliments I can get  -Lee — Lee Green MD MPH        Disclaimer: Information for general interest Family Practice         and discussion only.  I can’t examine you via University of Michigan  the Internet, so you should ALWAYS consult KF8MO                   personal doings, not a service of nor the                         responsibility of the University of Michigan. —–BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK—– Version: 2.6 mQA/Ai8httwAAAEBgLIu//t4J2W5K2cP6aHpXnZUeyVfzz85b3MXMfSsjrbcbB2k 0wnI/33ZENZ8jc7fBQARAQABtCBMZWUgR3JlZW4gTUQgPGdyZWVubGFAdW1pY2gu ZWR1Pg== =g15t —–END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK—–

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there are several "good" times to fish montana…early spring before run-off is excellent on the rivers near missoula….not to many people either….right after run-off(late june near missoula)…can be real good too….after late july it ’s to warm in my opinion and the fishing slows considerably….until late august and september when the hopper fishing kicks in…from september thru november the crowds thin out and the fishing really picks up again…take a chance and book a trip before the run-off i don’t think you’ll be disappointed. craig

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On the Metolious River in Oregon, during the Green Drake hatch, it was getting harder to cast becouse of the swallows.  They were getting so excited, they would try and intercept the imitation before it his the water. We would have to almost force cast the flies to the water to avoid being picked off two feet from the river.  Towards the end of the hatch, a bird fianlly scooped my imitaion off the water and began flying in circles above my head.  I felt terrible. I did give away several of my imitaions that day to some onlookers.  Apparently I made a decent batch of imitaions the night before!

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Had a similar experience on Christmas Island involving a 4/0 Lefty’s Deceiver and an extremely pissed off Frigate Bird.  I can assure you these fellows know how to use that nasty hook on the end of their beaks to best advantage.  Glad I packed the first aid kit! Don Kelly

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I didn’t see the original message on this, but based on Don Kelly’s comment, I assume it’s about aerial attacks on one’s fly.      I was night fishing the Battenkill near Arlington a few years ago, and hooked a branch on my back cast.  It surprised the heck out of me when the branch started flopping around in the water ahead of me.    … The first and, hopefully, last bat I’ve ever hooked!! Chip Ivins Buffalo, NY

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: My friend, who usually outfishes me, and I were once fishing on Hot Creek. :  I found a fly that worked, while he was doing poorly.  Finally he found : the "right" fly.  He then hooked a bird on the wing, foul hooked that is. : Although there were lots of swallows in the area, this was a larger bird : about the size of a pigeon.  At that time he used barbs.  He played the : bird to where he got it down and tried to remove the hook while avoiding : the beak.  Finally he wrenched it out.  Meanwhile, I was having a ball : fishing. : The next day there was no dead bird in the area and no pile of bones or : feathers. : Bill Buchman I’ve caught several pellicans while fishing for mackeral.  Only problem is Pellican tastes more like chicken than mackeral.

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[snip] : (BTW, I do not own a flyshop, operate an outfitter business, etc.) But…you must receive some kind of kickback from the Tourism folks.   Either that, or you are running for governor.<g  Why do you want the   crowds? — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.

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Strange or funny things often happen when casting a fly.  One that comes to mind is George Watermans story about catching a buffalo on his back cast, but he broke off on the second jump.  A large dragon fly once picked my son’s fly out of the air on the back cast and started flying away with it, line and all.  I thought he had hooked the dragon fly, but closer inspection showed it had actually grabbed the fly. Ernie Harrison

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Strange or funny things often happen when casting a fly.  One that comes to mind is George Watermans story about catching a buffalo on his back cast, but he broke off on the second jump.  A large dragon fly once picked my son’s fly out of the air on the back cast and started flying away with it, line and all.  I thought he had hooked the dragon fly, but closer inspection showed it had actually grabbed the fly. Ernie Harrison

Ernie, How about a frigate bird on a crystal popper? While trolling for trevally with a popper at Christmas Island a frigate bird picked up the fly and was hooked in the wing. Boy, and I thought trevally were tough! This gave me a whole new perspective on the term "catch & release". How about some more "strange strikes"?    Alan Barnard        Kiene’s Fly Shop    Sacramento, Ca.

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my son and i have gone to yellowstone for about 6 years. we always go the week of 7/15 sometimes we catch the tail end of the salmon fly hatch – Wow! the farther you walk the better the fishing. try walking about 3 miles north on the howard eaton trail starting behind the hamilton store at fishing bridge. Caddis flies on the surface, wooly buggers too! trout lake is very interesting too. it’s small but full of moss, …<scud city Yellowstone lake is great for bellyboating in the evening especially off the north end near steamboat point. If you can find it … use a #6 (thats right) white rubber legged black maribou streamer with a salomon colored belly, and troll it behind your bellyboat out around that lone rock about 75 yards from shore and hold on tight!!! if you want pictures let me know

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I am planning a trip to the northwest part of Montana next year and would like to know the best time and places to go. We will be out there for about 10 days and camp and if possible stay in motels. We like wading mostly, but boat trips can also be in our plans. TIA Dave Jennings

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check out http://www.cyberport.net/flyfish/mfr.html August is probably the best month IMHO.

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If you’ll be fishing in Montana next year, I suggest you make a short trip over to Yellowstone Park and fish the slough river.  My brother and I spent a week in early August(1995) fishing in Montana and in Yellowstone.  The rivers in Montana had been severly affected by Whirling disease and the trout populations were severly low.  Fishing was very slow so we took off for Yellowstone.  We camped at Slough park(this is located north to north central/east).  There is a trail apprx. 2 miles down the gravel road you take to the campground.  You have to walk the trail a ways to get to great fishing.  Apprx. 1-2 miles up the trail you’ll come to the first meadow and will see some 18-20 inch golden cutthroats waiting to be caught.  These are more difficult to catch as a lot of people settle in here and try their luck.  If you continue another 2-3 miles down the trail, you’ll come across the second meadow.  We walked down to slough creek from here and had the best fishing time of our life.  We each averaged about 30 fish a day all  ranging from 16-22 inches.  22 inches is a big fish but there are a few of them out there.  It is well worth your time to make the walk!!!!  Leave me know if you plan on going up there and I can give you more info.  You’ll have my e-mail address up top.  Good luck. -Dan C.

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   Dan commented that Montana rivers are suffering due to whirling disease and that fishing is slow. At this point, the Madison River is the only river or stream known to have a significant population decline that can be attributed to whirling disease.    The spore that causes the disease has been found in about 14 streams throughout southern and southwest Montana, but none have shown the same type of impact as the Madison.    So while whirling disease should be and is a major concern, it can’t be the sole reason for slow fishing. We had plenty of high water throughout the year (the Missouri is still running about 20 percent higher than normal) and that had plenty to do with tough fishing conditions this year. Folks from outside of Montana should keep this in mind when they talk to other anglers_not all our problems can be blamed on whirling disease. Jeff

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If you’ll be fishing in Montana next year, I suggest you make a short trip over to Yellowstone Park and fish the slough river.  My brother and I spent a week in early August(1995) fishing in Montana and in Yellowstone.  The rivers in Montana had been severly affected by Whirling disease and the trout populations were severly low.  [snip] To all concerned- No flame is intended,  but this statement is simply not true.  

Anyone who would pass up the outdoors_time in such a magnificant place solely upon *Predictions Of Fish_Caught* counts is only one of the recent morons in search of another *World_Record* to stick onto their resume. steve d.            

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: To all concerned- : No flame is intended,  but this statement is simply not true.  While the : fishing may have been slow for the writer, the fishing was actually very : good overall.  In addition, while whirling disease is a problem for some : rivers in Montana, it is important to know the facts.  First, not all : rivers in Montana are infected.  Second, the disease has not resulted in : the trout populations being "severly (sic) low".  For one thing, the : disease doeas not significantly impact the brown trout.  Second, while the : rainbow count is down in some rivers, like the Madison, the overall fish : count is still extremely high by any relevant standard. <large snip He’s right, but there’s more. What Lyman forgets to mention is that all reports of whirling disease seem to have focussed on the Madison and other Missouri Drainage streams, i.e *eastern* Montana. I feel obliged to remind folks that there is a whole lot of fishing in the Columbia Drainage, i.e. *western* Montana. This includes (to mention only the major rivers) the Flathead, the Bitterroot, Rock Creek, the Clark Fork (yes, different from the Clark’s Fork <G) and the Kootenai. All support very good fisheries, and I’ve seen no reports of WD in these waters. : Finally, whreever you go, consider using a guide for at least a day or : two. those who have little success are often folks who come to unfamiliar : waters and expect to do well without some professional advice.  Unless you : are a very very experienced fisherman, that is not realistic. My : suggestion is that you use a guide for a day or two at the beginning of : your trip and pick his brain for advice that you can use to make the : balance of the trip more productive. Very sound advice — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi, Since moving to New Hampshire I’ve become interested in fly fishing, but when I started looking into it, including getting some introductory books to read I was startled at how expensive it is.  Basically, I was looking at somewhere around $400 to get started.  Of course, I can go to Kmart and buy the beginners set for around $40, but all the books claim this inexpensive stuff is garbage and that I should be spending close to $200 for a rod, etc.  I’m wondering at the experiences others have had with bargain equipment.  Is it worth it to start with cheap stuff and move up to good equipment later, or will I be totally wasting my time?  Does anyone have suggestions as to good beginner equipment?  How about sources for used equipment?  I’m definately open to suggestions. Thanks, — | Dartmouth College                                  Home:  603-448-5677 | | 6211 Sudikoff Laboratory, Rm 108                                       | | Hanover, NH  03755                                                     |

Wow, a fellow Tri-towner, I am from lebanon, NH…actually I see you have a 448#, which indicates lebanong, but anyway, I have a cheap K-Mart brand one, and it works for me, I don’t go out and catch 50 pound brown trout on it, I catch a few Rainbow’s on it that MAY go a pound, and they don’t seem to notice that I have a ceap outfit. I feel that if you are a good enough fisherman, and you know where the fish are and what they are eating, that you can catch them on a stick with a piece of line tied on to it with you bait. Afterall, the guy who set the record for Largemouth bass probably wasn’t using much more than that, that must have been one HELL of a fight… $cott Goodwin Lebanon, NH — |      /|~~~ |EAT. SLEEP. FISH.   "PLAY BALL!" (my 2 favorite words) |   /   |___ |$cott WAY up -N- the wilds of New Hampshire

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: Hi, : Since moving to New Hampshire I’ve become interested in fly fishing, : but when I started looking into it, including getting some introductory Cheap is fine but look for an outfit that provides a double tapered flyline and is balance 5 weight line with a 5 weight rod. Director of Economic Development        Voice (206) 683-2025 — Director of Economic Development        Voice (206) 683-2025

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Hello Fellow Granite-Stater, I’m 40 miles away in Warner, and I can’t catch a thing.  Even on the old $400 LL Bean Deluxe.  I’d trade it in any day for your stick and string if I knew where to catch some trout.  So where are the fish? Always Skunked, Brad

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Hi, Since moving to New Hampshire I’ve become interested in fly fishing, but when I started looking into it, including getting some introductory books to read I was startled at how expensive it is.  Basically, I was looking at somewhere around $400 to get started.  Of course, I can go to Kmart and buy the beginners set for around $40, but all the books claim this inexpensive stuff is garbage and that I should be spending close to $200 for a rod, etc.  I’m wondering at the experiences others have had with bargain equipment.  Is it worth it to start with cheap stuff and move up to good equipment later, or will I be totally wasting my time?  Does anyone have suggestions as to good beginner equipment?  How about sources for used equipment?  I’m definately open to suggestions. Thanks, — | Dartmouth College                                  Home:  603-448-5677 | | 6211 Sudikoff Laboratory, Rm 108                                       | | Hanover, NH  03755                                                     |

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