Question:

I am in the market for a trailerable boat in the 22-26 foot range to be used in the ocean around the Channel Islands to mostly cruise and dive from.  I don’t really do that much fishing but would use it do dive but also be comfortable to sleep preferably up to 4 people.  I have always liked the Skipjacks and heard they are good in the ocean and enjoy the fly bridge.  I am looking for a good solid sea-worthy craft.  Single engine or double, im open on that.  Would love to take it someday up to the inner waterways up North of Washington and do a nice trip that way. Any recommendations on makes and models would be greatly appreciated. James

Response:

Expensive, but nice.  Davis Boats in Morro Bay.  Rock Harbor 36. Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am in the market for a trailerable boat in the 22-26 foot range to be used in the ocean around the Channel Islands to mostly cruise and dive from.  I don’t really do that much fishing but would use it do dive but also be comfortable to sleep preferably up to 4 people.  I have always liked the Skipjacks and heard they are good in the ocean and enjoy the fly bridge.  I am looking for a good solid sea-worthy craft.  Single engine or double, im open on that.  Would love to take it someday up to the inner waterways up North of Washington and do a nice trip that way. Any recommendations on makes and models would be greatly appreciated. James

Response:

OOPs Make that the Rock Harbor 25.  Bad fingers. Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Expensive, but nice.  Davis Boats in Morro Bay.  Rock Harbor 36. Bill I am in the market for a trailerable boat in the 22-26 foot range to be used in the ocean around the Channel Islands to mostly cruise and dive from.  I don’t really do that much fishing but would use it do dive but also be comfortable to sleep preferably up to 4 people.  I have always liked the Skipjacks and heard they are good in the ocean and enjoy the fly bridge.  I am looking for a good solid sea-worthy craft.  Single engine or double, im open on that.  Would love to take it someday up to the inner waterways up North of Washington and do a nice trip that way. Any recommendations on makes and models would be greatly appreciated. James

Response:

Question:

Chris,    It is difficult to tail a member of the trout family because their tail is not rigid.  Members of the salmon family are easy to tail. Ernie for all my advice, you should have seen me in practice this morning <G.  had a difficult time tailing a fish and when i finally did, it broke me off right there and shot away.  the way things go sometimes.

<snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – chris

Response:

Landing steelhead with a double-handed rod has always troubled me. ..

Just break the rod in half – always works for me! RalphH

Response:

I have found that just a plain pair of wool glove allows you to grip the fish’s tail much easier.  Hope this is of help. Kevin

Response:

Chris,    It is difficult to tail a member of the trout family because their tail is not rigid.  Members of the salmon family are easy to tail. Ernie

well, we’ll have to agree to disagree.  i find steelhead much easier to tail than some of the pacific salmon, although they are in the same family as trout and steelhead, maybe you meant the salmo genus. btw, another way to get a handle on the fish is to first grab the leader… yes, sometimes you get cuts on your fingers from doing it.  of course, with all the benfits of a 2-handed rod, landing fish on them without beaching them is one of the drawbacks. chris

Response:

I wouldn’t worry about tailing steelhead I’ve found that they roll on their side and don’t trash. If you back out of the water and lay your rod down and keep tension on the line you can get a hold of the tail and then get your fly out.It’s much easier to release a steelhead than a small trout I haven’t seen anything used to tail a steelhead.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Landing steelhead with a double-handed rod has always troubled me. I have tried to tail them, but my hand is often too small and/or weak to do so. Besides, it seems to take too much time to sufficiently weaken them before trying to tail them. I don’t want to exaust them. So I tend to force the issue as quickly as possible and try to beach them as soon as possible. Most of the time I have been successful in doing so although I have lost a few feisty ones that seemed to hate to touch the beach. I don’t mind losing some; I let all of them go any way afterwards. However, I wonder if beaching them might hurt them. Does anyone have any factual information regarding beaching and health of relatively large fish? Could anyone give me lessons about how to tail them? As much as I love to hook them, I would like to release them safely. Shinji on the Sky well, i don’t think it’s good for a big fish to flop around on rocks and sand, you really want to keep the fish in the water and not have the rocks and sand remove the fish’s slime layer or scales.  i haven’t seen any studies on it, but i believe all info on releasing fish recommends not bringing the fish out of water. what i do is make sure i have some loose line off the reel so that once i tail the fish i can illeviate the line pressure so i don’t break the rod.  i haven’t found that it takes much more time to tire a steelhead out to tail it than to beach it.  if it’s a problem with your hands, i think there are some tailing devices out there… most seem to be fairly long handled, but i’m sure you could cut back the handle.  i know cabelas sells them.  you could also make sure to fish with someone else, who can tail your fish and vice-versa, but that’ll probably decrease fishing days if you must have a partner.  look into some sort of tailing device if you can’t use your hands, because it is better for the fish you plan on releasing. chris

Response:

for all my advice, you should have seen me in practice this morning <G.  had a difficult time tailing a fish and when i finally did, it broke me off right there and shot away.  the way things go sometimes. i agree that it’s not that big of a deal to lose a fish once you’ve touched the leader or made a grab for the tail… but it truly is nice to get ahold of a steelhead every once in awhile just to get a real good look at one and technically land a steelhead <G. chris

Heartily I agree. That’s why I was trying to beach them. I’d like to thank and say good-bye to them in a proper manner. Shinji on the Sky

Response:

______  I always just slip my free under the fish and lift just a little without taking the fish out of the water and I turn it (being on the edge of the river now) into what current there may be.  Usually, I can slip the hook out very easily.  When I want the fish to simply swim off, I lower its weight back off my hand and they will almost surely swim off casually rather then darting off, which confirms the calming affect lifting a fish just a little has on them while still letting them stay in the water. This works especially well when using barbless hooks because they come out much easier without upsetting a fish as will most barbed hooks will.  Barbed hooks go in easy but come out with more difficulty unless you pay attention to the angle of the little slit one should try to back such hooks out.  Barbed hooks are easier to remove with a large pair of forceps.  A secret I use is to use a pair of dikes.  Powerful cutting and pointed pliers that I can snip the hook in half (large hooks with large barbs) just behind the barb if its all the way through.  The barb comes out instantly and the fish is free. Yes, it cost me a fly but when you’ve caught a 12 pound or large Steelhead, the cost of a fly you’ve tied yourself is a small price to pay for such great entertainment.  It always amazes me when watching television fishing shows the great amounts of effort the ‘Pros’ will go to to save a fly at the greater expense and stress and damage to the fish.   Hope these suggestions are somewhat useful gentlemen. Mr. G. — http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

Chris,   It is difficult to tail a member of the trout family because their tail is not rigid.  Members of the salmon family are easy to tail.

ARRGH! It’s that Salmonid Taxonomy problem again. Trouts and salmons are all in the family Salmonidae. One of the major genera with in that family is _Salmo_, which includes the Atlantic Salmon and the Brown Trout. Another major family is _Onchorynchus_, which includes the Cutthroat, Rainbow, Golden, Gila, Apache trout and all of the Pacific salmons (pink, king, coho, et cetera). The Lake and Brook Trout are in yet two more genera. (Brookies are technically chars, but I still like them anyway. They’ve got spirit.) At any rate, there is no "trout family" that is distinct from the "salmon family." The criterion that I use is based upon tracing evolutionary relationships. The other criterion may be based upon reproductive migrations or on freshwater vs. saltwater, which leaves us screwed in describing sea-run Cutts or Browns or Steelhead. (Genetically, Steelhead are Rainbows. Bigger and migratory, but rainbows none the less.) Opt out == cop-out. What’s so hard to understand?

Response:

The WDFW gives away a nifty little device at most of the sportsmens shows that is simply a dowel with a plate hook on the end of it. I think they even had directions on how to make them in the regs pamphlet. If you were to make one of these short enough to put in your vest you wouldn’t even have to touch the fish. Simply hook the line with the tool and slide the tool to the fishes mouth. Lift the tool up and the fish unhooks itself. It’s the same principle as the "CatchemRelease" tool you spend $20 on (I have one I use for trout and love it!).  It’s one of the best devices for fishing I have found. It’s simple and better yet it works! Gary

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Landing steelhead with a double-handed rod has always troubled me. I have tried to tail them, but my hand is often too small and/or weak to do so. Besides, it seems to take too much time to sufficiently weaken them before trying to tail them. I don’t want to exaust them. So I tend to force the issue as quickly as possible and try to beach them as soon as possible. Most of the time I have been successful in doing so although I have lost a few feisty ones that seemed to hate to touch the beach. I don’t mind losing some; I let all of them go any way afterwards. However, I wonder if beaching them might hurt them. Does anyone have any factual information regarding beaching and health of relatively large fish? Could anyone give me lessons about how to tail them? As much as I love to hook them, I would like to release them safely. Shinji on the Sky

well, i don’t think it’s good for a big fish to flop around on rocks and sand, you really want to keep the fish in the water and not have the rocks and sand remove the fish’s slime layer or scales.  i haven’t seen any studies on it, but i believe all info on releasing fish recommends not bringing the fish out of water. what i do is make sure i have some loose line off the reel so that once i tail the fish i can illeviate the line pressure so i don’t break the rod.  i haven’t found that it takes much more time to tire a steelhead out to tail it than to beach it.  if it’s a problem with your hands, i think there are some tailing devices out there… most seem to be fairly long handled, but i’m sure you could cut back the handle.  i know cabelas sells them.  you could also make sure to fish with someone else, who can tail your fish and vice-versa, but that’ll probably decrease fishing days if you must have a partner.  look into some sort of tailing device if you can’t use your hands, because it is better for the fish you plan on releasing. chris

Response:

Landing steelhead with a double-handed rod has always troubled me. I have tried to tail them, but my hand is often too small and/or weak to do so. Besides, it seems to take too much time to sufficiently weaken them before trying to tail them. I don’t want to exaust them. So I tend to force the issue as quickly as possible and try to beach them as soon as possible. Most of the time I have been successful in doing so although I have lost a few feisty ones that seemed to hate to touch the beach. I don’t mind losing some; I let all of them go any way afterwards. However, I wonder if beaching them might hurt them. Does anyone have any factual information regarding beaching and health of relatively large fish? Could anyone give me lessons about how to tail them? As much as I love to hook them, I would like to release them safely. Shinji on the Sky

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – well, i don’t think it’s good for a big fish to flop around on rocks and sand, you really want to keep the fish in the water and not have the rocks and sand remove the fish’s slime layer or scales.  i haven’t seen any studies on it, but i believe all info on releasing fish recommends not bringing the fish out of water. what i do is make sure i have some loose line off the reel so that once i tail the fish i can illeviate the line pressure so i don’t break the rod.  i haven’t found that it takes much more time to tire a steelhead out to tail it than to beach it.  if it’s a problem with your hands, i think there are some tailing devices out there… most seem to be fairly long handled, but i’m sure you could cut back the handle.  i know cabelas sells them.  you could also make sure to fish with someone else, who can tail your fish and vice-versa, but that’ll probably decrease fishing days if you must have a partner.  look into some sort of tailing device if you can’t use your hands, because it is better for the fish you plan on releasing. chris

Thanks. Reading your posting, I realize what a fool I was. Why do I have to worry about losing fish while trying to tail them? After all, I am tailing them in order to release them! Shinji on the Sky

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – well, i don’t think it’s good for a big fish to flop around on rocks and sand, you really want to keep the fish in the water and not have the rocks and sand remove the fish’s slime layer or scales.  i haven’t seen any studies on it, but i believe all info on releasing fish recommends not bringing the fish out of water. what i do is make sure i have some loose line off the reel so that once i tail the fish i can illeviate the line pressure so i don’t break the rod.  i haven’t found that it takes much more time to tire a steelhead out to tail it than to beach it.  if it’s a problem with your hands, i think there are some tailing devices out there… most seem to be fairly long handled, but i’m sure you could cut back the handle.  i know cabelas sells them.  you could also make sure to fish with someone else, who can tail your fish and vice-versa, but that’ll probably decrease fishing days if you must have a partner.  look into some sort of tailing device if you can’t use your hands, because it is better for the fish you plan on releasing. chris Thanks. Reading your posting, I realize what a fool I was. Why do I have to worry about losing fish while trying to tail them? After all, I am tailing them in order to release them! Shinji on the Sky

for all my advice, you should have seen me in practice this morning <G.  had a difficult time tailing a fish and when i finally did, it broke me off right there and shot away.  the way things go sometimes. i agree that it’s not that big of a deal to lose a fish once you’ve touched the leader or made a grab for the tail… but it truly is nice to get ahold of a steelhead every once in awhile just to get a real good look at one and technically land a steelhead <G. chris

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [deleted] Now if I could just make a pair of waders out of Hefty Garbage Sacks and bungee cords, I’d be set…. [deleted] Well…not bungee cords, but you can use those tall trash sacks with the handle ties for hippers. Make yourself a pair of duct tape booties and you’ll fishing in high style. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Reminds of something I saw on the Chilliwack River a few years back: there was a nice backwater full of coho on the other side of the river but the water was low enough to ford. I saw a guy waring rain pants duck taped to rubber boots fishing the backwater. I wrinkled my brow and wondered how well that worked. I was skeptical it could keep much water from finding its way into his boots. About an hour later he confirmed my skepticism by peeling off the tape and emptying a guart or more water from each boot. OTH I’ve heard tell that some winter steelheaders modify neoprene waders by cutting the worn boots off and gluing them to a pair of water proof snowmobiling boots with aquaseal or goop: the trick is to fit the neoprene leg over an empty coffee can to widen it then slip the can into the boot and pull the neoprene over the boot and apply copious amounts of glue. Ralph H remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply. "I could be bounded in a nutshell, and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams." – Hamlet

Response:

[deleted] Now if I could just make a pair of waders out of Hefty Garbage Sacks and bungee cords, I’d be set….

[deleted] Well…not bungee cords, but you can use those tall trash sacks with the handle ties for hippers. Make yourself a pair of duct tape booties and you’ll fishing in high style. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Although I know how to finish a fly with a hand whip finish, I use the Matarelli tool for this purpose. Why? Because it’s neater, the thread is less apt to fray or break, I can place the wraps where I want anywhere along the shank and it might be faster. It’s a small investment for a tool that will last a lifetime(unless you lose it as I did). Agree completely – get a Matarelli – I’ve had mine close to 20 years. Looks and works just like new. Ralph H remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply. "I could be bounded in a nutshell, and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams." – Hamlet

Agree completely with Ralph H., Matarelli makes the best whip finisher – and there instructions enclosed. Its real advantage for us with rough hands.

Response:

Didn’t we have this thread about a year ago? Guys spaming each other on" to use or not to use" a whip finisher? Is this dream? Joel Axelrad

Response:

Thanks for the neat idea, Bob — I just made myself one of these and tried it out tonight. It worked great! Now if I could just make a pair of waders out of Hefty Garbage Sacks and bungee cords, I’d be set…. Thanks again! R.S. Heaton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Try making yourself the World’s Cheapest Hackle Guard (remainder of cool idea snipped)

Response:

I have a Griffin and would not think of tying without it. They are cheap enough.  I suggest just buying one and trying it.  You’re not out much if you decide that it does not suit your style.

Response:

I prefer to whip finish by hand.  Try both the tools are not that expensive and see what you prefer.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Try making yourself the World’s Cheapest Hackle Guard.  Take a soda straw, cut yourself off a piece about half an inch long or so, and slit it lengthwise.  When you need to use it just slide it on the fly and over the hackle.  The thread from the bobbin just gets passed along the slit and is thus free to tie with after the guard is in place.  Then, with the hackle safely bound down, you can whip-finish and cement your fly and be very proud of your results.  I’ve bought several sets of hackle guards of various shapes, sizes, and styles over the years and find that the simple "slit soda straw" works better than any of them.  I hope this helps. — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers!

Neat idea, I’ll give it a whirl. Peter Peter        Merry Christmas

Response:

0] : … : Does anyone : here use a whip finishing tool to tie the ends of their flies?? : … : Pierre I am not going to disagree with either camp on using or not using a tool here. I’ll just add something I have lately discovered that applies to either for small flies and fine thread. If you rub some beeswax (or I suppose parafin) on the part of the thread that’s going to be in the finish, the friction of drawing it up melts the wax and lubricates as it snaps into place, and then sets so you don’t need to use head cement. I find that I don’t break 8/0 thread at this step nearly as much when I do this, and I don’t end up with cement clogged eyes. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories  (remove x’s from email if not      Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971   a spammer) Phone: (650)-857-5491              

Response:

Peter, a hackle guard may help –  you can make these fairly easily.

I tried hackle guards but I don’t have enough hands to manage thread, whip finisher and hackle guard at the same time.  No talent, I guess. Also ballpoint pen shafts make good half-hitch tools. With a bit of ferreting through some desk drawers you can find a few sizes; "BIC" style pens are a big tool (better for packing spun deer hair) while the old Paper mate style will service the smallest flies you tie.

Great cheap solution, though mine were given to me when a fellow ff’er cleaned out his junk.  I wouldn’t want to pay some of those prices now. Ralph H remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply. "I could be bounded in a nutshell, and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams." – Hamlet

Peter        Merry Christmas

Response:

Pierre, I was taught to do a one hand whip finish many years ago.  I have tried to use a whip finish tool and never felt that I had the same control of the thread. I can place each wrap exactly where I want it with my hand and keep the thread taught. Never felt I had the same control with the whip finish tools I’ve tried. Of course, I never gave them a lot of use. I will say that with the technique I use it helps to have good vision (the only body equipment that still works as originally designed) but this is probably true for any fly head finishing.  Good luck. I have been taking some fly tying classes and am really enjoying the lessons and seeing the quality of work that I am able to produce under the guidance of an experienced tyer! One of the questions I have for this group that has yet to fail me  bye the way<G is this… Does anyone here use a whip finishing tool to tie the ends of their flies?? I have been wondering if this is worth mastering because I work in a hospital and have no problem doing the whip procedure it is used in closing stitches and such but at the end of some of the flies when you are close to the eye I find it very difficult to get the line to stay on the hook! Would tying to master this tool help me in my predicament there?? Thanks in advance for the words of advice! Pierre

– Steve Vaughn Kodak Park Health, Safety & Environmental Services Eastman Kodak Company – http://www.kodak.com

Response:

with my eyes I could whip without a toll… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been taking some fly tying classes and am really enjoying the lessons and seeing the quality of work that I am able to produce under the guidance of an experienced tyer! One of the questions I have for this group that has yet to fail me  bye the way<G is this… Does anyone here use a whip finishing tool to tie the ends of their flies?? I have been wondering if this is worth mastering because I work in a hospital and have no problem doing the whip procedure it is used in closing stitches and such but at the end of some of the flies when you are close to the eye I find it very difficult to get the line to stay on the hook! Would tying to master this tool help me in my predicament there?? Thanks in advance for the words of advice! Pierre

Response:

My half hitch tool has a dubbing pick on one end which I use to clean hook eyes and the other end has a half hitch tool which I use for compressing spun deer hair. — Ernie Harrison Fly Fishing Books, Blood Knot Machine Make your own Tapered Leaders, Wading Boots, Fly Rods, Fly Tying Box Go to:  http://users.ccnet.com/~emh

(Peter Charles) says: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Pierre   The half-hitch tool enables you to position the loop exactly where you want it as well as push back those stray hackle barbs that always end up pointing forward.  With a whip, you usually end up tying over the strays and having to clip them afterward.  I suppose, If I wound hackle better, I wouldn’t have this problem but that’s another thread. Peter, a hackle guard may help –  you can make these fairly easily. Also ballpoint pen shafts make good half-hitch tools. With a bit of ferreting through some desk drawers you can find a few sizes; "BIC" style pens are a big tool (better for packing spun deer hair) while the old Paper mate style will service the smallest flies you tie. Ralph H remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply. "I could be bounded in a nutshell, and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams." – Hamlet

Response:

I am not a precise fly tier and have found that the more beat up a fly gets, the better the trout like it.  A whip finishing tool is just an additional step in the tying process and an additional tool on my workspace. The trout don’t seem to mind if I overlay a wrap or two when tying off the head. — Ernie Harrison Fly Fishing Books, Blood Knot Machine Make your own Tapered Leaders, Wading Boots, Fly Rods, Fly Tying Box Go to:  http://users.ccnet.com/~emh

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Although I know how to finish a fly with a hand whip finish, I use the Matarelli tool for this purpose. Why? Because it’s neater, the thread is less apt to fray or break, I can place the wraps where I want anywhere along the shank and it might be faster. It’s a small investment for a tool that will last a lifetime(unless you lose it as I did). Agree completely – get a Matarelli – I’ve had mine close to 20 years. Looks and works just like new. Ralph H remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply. "I could be bounded in a nutshell, and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams." – Hamlet

Response:

Would tying to master this tool help me in my predicament there?? Thanks in advance for the words of advice!

I’ve got a Griffin whip-finisher and consider it essential.  I *can* do a hand whip-finish but I find the tool helps me position the thread better which is very important on small dries with hackle near the eye.  I figured out how to use mine from the directions which came with it, and it only took a minute to get it right.  I suggest that you practice on a bare hook – that way you can figure out how everything is supposed to work without the pressure of having to get it right Or Else..!  :-) — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers!

Response:

With a whip, you usually end up tying over the strays and having to clip them afterward.  I suppose, If I wound hackle better, I wouldn’t have this problem but that’s another thread.

Try making yourself the World’s Cheapest Hackle Guard.  Take a soda straw, cut yourself off a piece about half an inch long or so, and slit it lengthwise.  When you need to use it just slide it on the fly and over the hackle.  The thread from the bobbin just gets passed along the slit and is thus free to tie with after the guard is in place.  Then, with the hackle safely bound down, you can whip-finish and cement your fly and be very proud of your results.  I’ve bought several sets of hackle guards of various shapes, sizes, and styles over the years and find that the simple "slit soda straw" works better than any of them.  I hope this helps. — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers!

Response:

Pierre

  The half-hitch tool enables you to position the loop exactly where you want it as well as push back those stray hackle barbs that always end up pointing forward.  With a whip, you usually end up tying over the strays and having to clip them afterward.  I suppose, If I wound hackle better, I wouldn’t have this problem but that’s another thread.

Peter, a hackle guard may help –  you can make these fairly easily. Also ballpoint pen shafts make good half-hitch tools. With a bit of ferreting through some desk drawers you can find a few sizes; "BIC" style pens are a big tool (better for packing spun deer hair) while the old Paper mate style will service the smallest flies you tie. Ralph H remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply. "I could be bounded in a nutshell, and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams." – Hamlet

Response:

Never use ‘em on standard hackled dry flies anymore, almost always use a half hitch tool these days. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been taking some fly tying classes and am really enjoying the lessons and seeing the quality of work that I am able to produce under the guidance of an experienced tyer! One of the questions I have for this group that has yet to fail me  bye the way<G is this… Does anyone here use a whip finishing tool to tie the ends of their flies?? I have been wondering if this is worth mastering because I work in a hospital and have no problem doing the whip procedure it is used in closing stitches and such but at the end of some of the flies when you are close to the eye I find it very difficult to get the line to stay on the hook! Would tying to master this tool help me in my predicament there?? Thanks in advance for the words of advice! Pierre

Response:

Although I know how to finish a fly with a hand whip finish, I use the Matarelli tool for this purpose. Why? Because it’s neater, the thread is less apt to fray or break, I can place the wraps where I want anywhere along the shank and it might be faster. It’s a small investment for a tool that will last a lifetime(unless you lose it as I did).

Agree completely – get a Matarelli – I’ve had mine close to 20 years. Looks and works just like new. Ralph H remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply. "I could be bounded in a nutshell, and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams." – Hamlet

Response:

Hi Pierre,  a whip finishing tool is great for finishing off flies. I know many people are proud of the fact that they dont use one, but I find the tool of immense value. You can place your whips exactly without fear of trapping hackle etc, and the resulting knot is very reliable.  Have a look at  http://www.flyanglersonline.com  Beginning Fly-tying by Al.Campbell, both types of whip finisher the English style, and the rotary style are described there.

I recommend http://thesmokies.com/oldsmoky_outfitters/flytying/index.htm for an excellent illustrated description of how to use a whip finish tool, along with other helpful advice for beginners (like me). — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

I have been taking some fly tying classes and am really enjoying the lessons and seeing the quality of work that I am able to produce under the guidance of an experienced tyer! One of the questions I have for this group that has yet to fail me  bye the way<G is this… Does anyone here use a whip finishing tool to tie the ends of their flies?? I have been wondering if this is worth mastering because I work in a hospital and have no problem doing the whip procedure it is used in closing stitches and such but at the end of some of the flies when you are close to the eye I find it very difficult to get the line to stay on the hook! Would tying to master this tool help me in my predicament there?? Thanks in advance for the words of advice! Pierre

Pierre I use it on some flies, a half-hitch tool on others and just my fingers on some. It really depends on the size of the fly.  I find half-hitch tools better for small dries, whip finishers better for salmon, spey etc.  But that’s just my preference.  The half-hitch tool enables you to position the loop exactly where you want it as well as push back those stray hackle barbs that always end up pointing forward.  With a whip, you usually end up tying over the strays and having to clip them afterward.  I suppose, If I wound hackle better, I wouldn’t have this problem but that’s another thread. Take the time to learn it but get a set of half-hitch tools too. Peter Peter        Merry Christmas

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Although I know how to finish a fly with a hand whip finish, I use the Matarelli tool for this purpose. Why? Because it’s neater, the thread is less apt to fray or break, I can place the wraps where I want anywhere along the shank and it might be faster. It’s a small investment for a tool that will last a lifetime(unless you lose it as I did).

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I have been taking some fly tying classes and am really enjoying the lessons and seeing the quality of work that I am able to produce under the guidance of an experienced tyer! One of the questions I have for this group that has yet to fail me  bye the way<G is this… Does anyone here use a whip finishing tool to tie the ends of their flies?? I have been wondering if this is worth mastering because I work in a hospital and have no problem doing the whip procedure it is used in closing stitches and such but at the end of some of the flies when you are close to the eye I find it very difficult to get the line to stay on the hook! Would tying to master this tool help me in my predicament there?? Thanks in advance for the words of advice! Pierre

Hi Pierre,  a whip finishing tool is great for finishing off flies. I know many people are proud of the fact that they dont use one, but I find the tool of immense value. You can place your whips exactly without fear of trapping hackle etc, and the resulting knot is very reliable.  Have a look at  http://www.flyanglersonline.com  Beginning Fly-tying by Al.Campbell, both types of whip finisher the English style, and the rotary style are described there. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

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I have been taking some fly tying classes and am really enjoying the lessons and seeing the quality of work that I am able to produce under the guidance of an experienced tyer! One of the questions I have for this group that has yet to fail me  bye the way<G is this… Does anyone here use a whip finishing tool to tie the ends of their flies?? I have been wondering if this is worth mastering because I work in a hospital and have no problem doing the whip procedure it is used in closing stitches and such but at the end of some of the flies when you are close to the eye I find it very difficult to get the line to stay on the hook! Would tying to master this tool help me in my predicament there?? Thanks in advance for the words of advice! Pierre

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Pierre;         I can’t imagine finishing a fly without one. Get one, you will never look back. john – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been taking some fly tying classes and am really enjoying the lessons and seeing the quality of work that I am able to produce under the guidance of an experienced tyer! One of the questions I have for this group that has yet to fail me  bye the way<G is this… Does anyone here use a whip finishing tool to tie the ends of their flies?? I have been wondering if this is worth mastering because I work in a hospital and have no problem doing the whip procedure it is used in closing stitches and such but at the end of some of the flies when you are close to the eye I find it very difficult to get the line to stay on the hook! Would tying to master this tool help me in my predicament there?? Thanks in advance for the words of advice! Pierre

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Question:

t… i use a white zonker fished on an intermediate sink tip in the summer for cats on the fox river in wisconsin. i get by on a  8 wt. st. croix, and have a fine time doing so… i think it’s mainly a problem of identifying the forage fish (in my case, a white perch) and getting down to the cats. and when they strike…well, i’ll leave that for your first fish… hex

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http://www.smallstreams.com/Cat.html The above article is one that resides on my little site. adam Small Stream Fly Fishing http://www.smallstreams.com

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This past spring and summer I caught quite a few channel cats on flies. Any kind of streamer seems to work fine. Drifting the fly near blowdowns and into deeper holes and just letting it hang in the current, no retrieve, seemed to work best. Evan

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Any body out there fly fishing for catfish? Duane:  I can tell you that when the whitefly is on the Susquehanna River, I have had a blast taking rising catfish on a dry.  This would be late July-August in most years.  They fight like an old tire – just drag them in.

….don’t know what kind of catfish that would be (fights like an old tire). In Montana, we have channel catfish in the praire rivers, and they fight like buffalo soldiers.     Note that bacon rind will stay on a hook all day. So will fresh pork skin, which, when fished with a shooting head and a pea-sized split shot, works well for channel catfish. —  * Center For Computational Biology            * Montana State University                            */

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I visit a 50 acre lake about two hours north of Houston, TX a couple times each year and usually take a flyrod with me.  When I cannot get the Bass, Bluegill or Crappie to cooperate (rare) I’ll resort to Catfish.  For me, sizable Blues and Channel Cats will readily take a Woolly Bugger #2-4 Black on 0-1X leader about 7 ft or so.  They don’t seem to be leader shy. — KennyM "I fish because I love to…"

t… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Any body out there fly fishing for catfish? With 4-10 pounders farly normal in the rivers (at least around here) I was wondering if anyone had given this a try. I didn’t find out about this aspect of the sport until after the fishing slowed down for the winter.  Haven’t had much luck with the catfish so far, but I also haven’t had much luck in the last 4 weeks catching anything except a cold. I was wondering what gear was preferred by the more experienced folks to take these wee beasties and what patterns folks used other than Hellgramites and Joe’s Hopper.  With luch like this I’ll have plenty of time to tie the patterns before the water starts getting warm.  (Of course, I could always use the time to catch those funny looking rainbow colored fish that are stocked down here in the winter time.) Thanks in advance for any info.

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Any body out there fly fishing for catfish? With 4-10 pounders farly normal in the rivers (at least around here) I was wondering if anyone had given this a try. I didn’t find out about this aspect of the sport until after the fishing slowed down for the winter.  Haven’t had much luck with the catfish so far, but I also haven’t had much luck in the last 4 weeks catching anything except a cold. I was wondering what gear was preferred by the more experienced folks to take these wee beasties and what patterns folks used other than Hellgramites and Joe’s Hopper.  With luch like this I’ll have plenty of time to tie the patterns before the water starts getting warm.  (Of course, I could always use the time to catch those funny looking rainbow colored fish that are stocked down here in the winter time.) Thanks in advance for any info.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any body out there fly fishing for catfish? With 4-10 pounders farly normal in the rivers (at least around here) I was wondering if anyone had given this a try. I didn’t find out about this aspect of the sport until after the fishing slowed down for the winter.  Haven’t had much luck with the catfish so far, but I also haven’t had much luck in the last 4 weeks catching anything except a cold. I was wondering what gear was preferred by the more experienced folks to take these wee beasties and what patterns folks used other than Hellgramites and Joe’s Hopper.  With luch like this I’ll have plenty of time to tie the patterns before the water starts getting warm.  (Of course, I could always use the time to catch those funny looking rainbow colored fish that are stocked down here in the winter time.) Thanks in advance for any info.

When I lived in Kansas I used to catch a few channel cat on wooly buggers, zonkers and decievers, mostly when I was fishing for white bass or crappie. — Charlie…

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any body out there fly fishing for catfish? With 4-10 pounders farly normal in the rivers (at least around here) I was wondering if anyone had given this a try. I didn’t find out about this aspect of the sport until after the fishing slowed down for the winter.  Haven’t had much luck with the catfish so far, but I also haven’t had much luck in the last 4 weeks catching anything except a cold. I was wondering what gear was preferred by the more experienced folks to take these wee beasties and what patterns folks used other than Hellgramites and Joe’s Hopper.  With luch like this I’ll have plenty of time to tie the patterns before the water starts getting warm.  (Of course, I could always use the time to catch those funny looking rainbow colored fish that are stocked down here in the winter time.) Thanks in advance for any info.

Hi Duaine, I’ve caught a few catfish while "crawling" a woolly bugger through still water. I’ve never been sure if catching them was a mistake or not but they were hooked in the mouth. I’ve never had any real consistant success though. On the other hand I’ve had a lot of fun fly fishing for carp. They tend to hold in slow or non-moving water and take buggers fairly well. Because they are often in shallow water they can be real spooky. Good luck & … — Tight Lines — Al Beatty Whiting Farms (Hoffman Hackle)

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Any body out there fly fishing for catfish? With 4-10 pounders farly normal in the rivers (at least around here) I was wondering if anyone had given this a try.

Duane:  I can tell you that when the whitefly is on the Susquehanna River, I have had a blast taking rising catfish on a dry.  This would be late July-August in most years.  They fight like an old tire – just drag them in. It gets to be an art to distinquish the catfish rises from the smallmouth rises. Mark Faulkner

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Ditto the whitefly post–channel cats belly up to the smorgasbord in late summer on the Potomac, too.  I’ve caught a number of catfish on dark strip-leeches or butch minnows while fishing for smallies.  They will take minnow imitations in our eastern rivers, and quickly too.  An element of luck or accident is involved, though. Dave Motes

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Duane:  I can tell you that when the whitefly is on the Susquehanna River, I have had a blast taking rising catfish on a dry.  This would be late July-August in most years.  They fight like an old tire – just drag them in. It gets to be an art to distinquish the catfish rises from the smallmouth rises. Mark Faulkner

  What kind of catfish were these? I’ve caught a few Channel Cats when fishing for bass & they fought like a freight train. Willi

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Duaine –         There are a couple of small streams and lakes that I know of in Arkansas where the catfish will readily take a fly.  This seems to be somewhat aberrant behavior for a catfish, but in these particular areas they are the primary predator species (for some reason the smallmouth bass haven’t done well there – overfishing?), and they don’t seem to show the normal reluctance that cats show.  The water in these areas is normally gin-clear, and I usually catch channel catfish on flies.  The other species of cats, while present, only occasionally will take a fly.         The cats will only rarely take a dry fly (usually a hopper pattern), but will aggressively charge an olive-green wooly bugger or zonker.  There is a lot of vegetation in these waters, and there is a large number of small (2") fry from bluegill, which the streamers do a pretty good job of imitating.   For some reason, the period during and immediately after a thunderstorm is vastly the most productive.  I’ve taken channel catfish up to 10 lbs. in these waters, sometimes catching 10 or 15 in a single afternoon of fishing.         The largest cat I ever took on a fly was actually on the Potomac river right at the Beltway around Washington D.C.   That particular fish hit a large white streamer I was casting for smallmouth bass, and then proceeded to drag me up and down the river (on foot, no less) for about an hour before I could get close enough to remove the hook.  I didn’t attempt to weigh him, but he was about the length of my leg to the hip (say 36"), and bigger in girth.  My best guesstimate for his weight would be somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 lbs. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any body out there fly fishing for catfish? With 4-10 pounders farly normal in the rivers (at least around here) I was wondering if anyone had given this a try. I didn’t find out about this aspect of the sport until after the fishing slowed down for the winter.  Haven’t had much luck with the catfish so far, but I also haven’t had much luck in the last 4 weeks catching anything except a cold. I was wondering what gear was preferred by the more experienced folks to take these wee beasties and what patterns folks used other than Hellgramites and Joe’s Hopper.  With luch like this I’ll have plenty of time to tie the patterns before the water starts getting warm.  (Of course, I could always use the time to catch those funny looking rainbow colored fish that are stocked down here in the winter time.) Thanks in advance for any info.

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Question:

I had my old medalist stolen out of my car after .  Is there anywhere in CT (or in NYC) that sells fly-fishing gear of that sort? thanks, Ben

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I had my old medalist stolen out of my car after .  Is there anywhere in CT (or in NYC) that sells fly-fishing gear of that sort? thanks, Ben

Hi Ben I suggest you contact Hook and Hackle at 800-552-8342. On page 5 of their catalog they list the standard Pflueger and also two rim control models. They are in Plattsburg, NY. — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products http://www.btsflyfishing.com Tiemco quality hooks, under $6.00 pkg/50

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Question:

As a last resort he started to dog paddle,and managed to get enough air (and a bit of water)in his lungs to keep going.He managed to make it to shore. I always assumed that if my tube turned over, I would use the Kayakers’ last restort: a wet exit.  I.e., calmly reach down (or is it up?), pull my feet out, and exit the tube.  Anyone see a problem with this assumption? Wet exits are the one and only facet of kayaking I’m proficient at, having had lots of practice while trying to learn to roll.

I for one am going to take my tube out in the lake in a controlled situation and flip it until I am comfortable with this "wet exit". I didnt even realize flipping my tube was possible- It’s pretty wide. You got my attention! Jack Jack Wheeler

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Maybe you/they don’t need a hand (i.e. is there a lawsuit pending against the tube manufacturer?

You know, it wasn’t till several hours after I read this comment that it occured to me how offensive it is.  Why is it that every time somebody hurts themself we assume it is someone else’s fault? Sue the float tube manufacturer?  Come on.  Do you really think the float tube is to blame? — -Wayne Trzyna

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On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died when his float tube Sheesh: you write a post like that to a group consisting of thousands of

… paragraph of inappropriate sarcasm deleted … know? Geez, I mean I might have to put off buying that new  reel I want for a whole month or so but I think I could swing it….

You insensitive bastard.  I gather no one will shed a tear when your tube flips. Bob Luneski

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe you/they don’t need a hand (i.e. is there a lawsuit pending against the tube manufacturer? You know, it wasn’t till several hours after I read this comment that it occured to me how offensive it is.  Why is it that every time somebody hurts themself we assume it is someone else’s fault? Sue the float tube manufacturer?  Come on.  Do you really think the float tube is to blame? — -Wayne Trzyna

Wayne has a good point, unless of course the manufacurer designed a tube that would obviously flip under normal operation. i.e. shaped like a kayak.  If an angler choses to forego a PFD and drowns because the tube completely deflated before going ashore, then too bad. (Which is a different circumstance than the subject victim) I personally limit my use of the float tube to calm still waters on small lakes with land very accessible.  I view my tube as the "only" option as a boat on a small pond or lake where a regular boat would be less intimate.  Larger waters require a normal boat or even a pram, a tube is not viewed as my "poor man’s boat".  No white water adventures here because no fish is worth my life. My condolences to the familiy of the unfortunate angler. — Howard

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Maybe you/they don’t need a hand (i.e. is there a lawsuit pending against the tube manufacturer? You know, it wasn’t till several hours after I read this comment that it occured to me how offensive it is.  Why is it that every time somebody hurts themself we assume it is someone else’s fault? Sue the float tube manufacturer?  Come on.  Do you really think the float tube is to blame?

If it was a manufacturing or design defect, then yes, there is every right to sue, provided that it was being used as intended. It might very well be a design which places the rider COG too high…the lawsuit might 1) get it fixed and 2) save more lives. Something that seems really ludicrous to me is the price of some of the tubes…like Browning…around $50…imagine that, really, something for $50 that has such serious implications, a $50 boat. Hmmmm…boggles the mind…freaking fly line costs more… TimW

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Wheee!

If you can maintain this attitude, you will survive the flip. — -Wayne Trzyna

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: I have spent many an hour in a float tube ,and I must tell you : that I am amazed that anyone has had one flip over on them????? It _CAN_ be done!!  I have not managed to do so yet, but there have been times where I leaned way over the side of tube to reach for a snagged line. I would have the opposite side of the tube lift out of the water and start to roll. I am only about 175#, but I used to flip truck tire tubes in the pool when I was a kid by leaning on one side of them. There were times when I had to worry about this, but they are several pounds

ago. My COG is pretty safely placed, now.   I did flip once, getting into the water, because I was careless, and tried to walk forward rather than back.  Really scary for about 10 seconds.  I am really careful, now. I have to say, seems like the carrying straps add to the danger.  I don’t use them.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I have spent many an hour in a float tube ,and I must tell you : that I am amazed that anyone has had one flip over on them????? It _CAN_ be done!!  I have not managed to do so yet, but there have been times where I leaned way over the side of tube to reach for a snagged line. I would have the opposite side of the tube lift out of the water and start to roll. I am only about 175#, but I used to flip truck tire tubes in the pool when I was a kid by leaning on one side of them. The trick is to stay reasonably centered and keep your butt in the water. Even when I get a big wake from a boat, I easily stay upright and ride it out. Wheee! Jon Porter

In reflection, my previous post might be considered to be flippant and callous regarding the original incident.  I meant no disrespect, and extend my sympathies to the family and friends of the unfortunate tuber.

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: I always assumed that if my tube turned over, I would use the Kayakers’ : last restort: a wet exit.  I.e., calmly reach down (or is it up?), : pull my feet out, and exit the tube.  Anyone see a problem with this : assumption? You should be able to _drop_ out of a tube. I can get into my Caddis with the seat strap buckled while wearing fins. I figure that getting out (even upside down) should not be much harder. The trick is to keep your wits about you when the thing flips! Jon Porter

Your waders will be tough to pull under water upside down.  You might give it a try (with help nearby) and let us know how it goes.  Sobering thought being upside down with your neoprenes, all snug and airtight, waving around in the breeze.  Perhaps the open-ended tubes have more to recommend them than easy entry. John Porter, I’m truely sorry for your loss and appreciate the warning. Good fishing!  J. Rice

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With regard to an earlier post of mine to the fellow who’s brother drowned a "Bob" [Last name omitted to protect the guilty] apparently skimmed same and, thinking I was being sarcastic/insensitive, submitted a post of his own with a  few of the lines from my post he misconstrued. For the opportunity to restate the point of my original post will gladly forego asking for mea culpa from Bob for wrongful skimming/snipping me to make me sound like a bastard/calling me a bastard/etc., etc. since I also know his heart was in the right place. Thus, again: Here’s hoping the fellow who lost his brother will tell us if his brother’s two boys are in financial straits and, if so, whether and where there’s a trust fund where those of us who are interested can send something. (And oh, Bob, re your calling me a bastard: No hard feelings (Though I hope you didn’t hurt my father’s feelings, whoever he is….)

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On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died when his float tube over turned in a small pond near Prineville, Oregon. I don’t know what made the tube flip – but I know I will never use one again. Bill left two small boys – Sam, 2 and Jake, 7. Bill was an avid fly fisherman, moving to Prineville to teach science and be closer to the rivers he loved to fish. His last project, about two weeks ago,  was to take his class out and they planted 800 trees bordering a stream that had suffered from cattle grazing. I hope the stream recovers… If you have any information on why or how tubes can flip – please drop me a note.

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On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died when his float tube over turned in a small pond near Prineville, Oregon. I don’t know what made the tube flip – but I know I will never use one again. Bill left two small boys – Sam, 2 and Jake, 7. Bill was an avid fly fisherman, moving to Prineville to teach science and be closer to the rivers he loved to fish. His last project, about two weeks ago,  was to take his class out and they planted 800 trees bordering a stream that had suffered from cattle grazing. I hope the stream recovers… If you have any information on why or how tubes can flip – please drop me a note.

I’m sorry to hear about your brother,I offer my condolences.My brother did the same thing,luckily he survied.I was to far from him to help and I just stood there in disbelief.I think he was trying to get out of the water to take a leek,and tripped on a rock and fell forward. Being a steep dropoff right next to shore he could not reach the bottom with his hand.  As a last resort he started to dog paddle,and managed to get enough air (and a bit of water)in his lungs to keep going.He managed to make it to shore.  I now fish with a floater vest or a floater collar,and so does my brother, we enjoy our fishing trips together and especially float tubing. It’s a very exciting sport and I hope you do not give it up. BTW he is my twin brother,and I don’t want to lose him. Just sharing my experience with everybody and maybe it hits home to some people. Tight lines,Frank

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On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died when his float tube over turned in a small pond near Prineville, Oregon. I don’t know what made the tube flip – but I know I will never use one again. Bill left two small boys – Sam, 2 and Jake, 7. Bill was an avid fly fisherman, moving to Prineville to teach science and be closer to the rivers he loved to fish. His last project, about two weeks ago,  was to take his class out and they planted 800 trees bordering a stream that had suffered from cattle grazing…..

Sheesh: you write a post like that to a group consisting of thousands of lunatics who by definition sit around staring at their $2000 and up computertoys and fairly regularly drop $300-$500 on flyrods, $100-$400 on reels, take fly-in trips around the world, etc., etc., and you don’t tell us if the boys’ mother and you and whatever other family is involved could use a hand with the expenses of raising the boys and whether a trust fund has been set up for them and the address….? Maybe you/they don’t need a hand (i.e. is there a lawsuit pending against the tube manufacturer?) but if they do why don’t you let us know? Geez, I mean I might have to put off buying that new  reel I want for a whole month or so but I think I could swing it….

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: On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died when his float tube : over turned in a small pond near Prineville, Oregon. I don’t know what : made the tube flip – but I know I will never use one again. Bill left : two small boys – Sam, 2 and Jake, 7. Bill was an avid fly fisherman, : moving to Prineville to teach science and be closer to the rivers he : loved to fish. His last project, about two weeks ago,  was to take his : class out and they planted 800 trees bordering a stream that had suffered : from cattle grazing. I hope the stream recovers… : If you have any information on why or how tubes can flip – please drop : me a note. Sorry to hear of your loss. Can the tubes be flipped while leaning backwards with one arm extended to the rear and feet out in front of you? Suggestion for discussion: When diving, I wear a large dull knife strapped to my leg. This is mostly to impress the tourons. However, after having managed to get all tangled up in a monoline fishing net once, there is now a small, double-edged, very sharp, serrated (sp?) edged knife fastened to my shoulder strap. Next time I’ll leave all that equipment down there with a few quick strokes of that knife when the release buckles are all tied up. Maybe it is just me, but after a couple of emergency situations, you go prepared. When upside down in a tube, can an escape be managed with a slash to the tube and a couple cuts on shoulder straps? I know, like you don’t have enough junk hanging on your vest already. Also, there are ankle weights for divers that don’t like diving upside down. I assume tubers have these also to help paddle around? Bill

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On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died…

Rich: My sincerest condolences to you and your family… very sorry to hear this tragic news.

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As a last resort he started to dog paddle,and managed to get enough air (and a bit of water)in his lungs to keep going.He managed to make it to shore.

I always assumed that if my tube turned over, I would use the Kayakers’ last restort: a wet exit.  I.e., calmly reach down (or is it up?), pull my feet out, and exit the tube.  Anyone see a problem with this assumption? Wet exits are the one and only facet of kayaking I’m proficient at, having had lots of practice while trying to learn to roll. — -Wayne Trzyna

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I always assumed that if my tube turned over, I would use the Kayakers’ last restort: a wet exit.  I.e., calmly reach down (or is it up?), pull my feet out, and exit the tube.  Anyone see a problem with this assumption? Wet exits are the one and only facet of kayaking I’m proficient at, having had lots of practice while trying to learn to roll.

The panic factor and 35 degree water might be a problem with this assumption.  Keeping your wits about you would be difficult.  I assume you practiced rolling your kayak under somewhat controlled conditions.  I never practiced flipping my tube. Does a PFD really help if you are flipped over.  Will it keep your head up when the tube is flipped over and your legs are pointed to the sky, or will it keep you from flipping in the first place?.  Just curious if anyone has experienced a flip while wearing a life jacket. John

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: I have spent many an hour in a float tube ,and I must tell you : that I am amazed that anyone has had one flip over on them????? It _CAN_ be done!!  I have not managed to do so yet, but there have been times where I leaned way over the side of tube to reach for a snagged line. I would have the opposite side of the tube lift out of the water and start to roll. I am only about 175#, but I used to flip truck tire tubes in the pool when I was a kid by leaning on one side of them. The trick is to stay reasonably centered and keep your butt in the water. Even when I get a big wake from a boat, I easily stay upright and ride it out. Wheee! Jon Porter

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: I always assumed that if my tube turned over, I would use the Kayakers’ : last restort: a wet exit.  I.e., calmly reach down (or is it up?), : pull my feet out, and exit the tube.  Anyone see a problem with this : assumption? You should be able to _drop_ out of a tube. I can get into my Caddis with the seat strap buckled while wearing fins. I figure that getting out (even upside down) should not be much harder. The trick is to keep your wits about you when the thing flips! Jon Porter

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I have spent many an hour in a float tube ,and I must tell you that I am amazed that anyone has had one flip over on them?????

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First for safety I would say we need to wear PFD’s of some type.  Second we should never be without a good readily available knife.  Third it isn’t a bad Idea to try to flip one with a friend present and try a water exit. Not panicing is probably the key.  Neoprene waders are very bouyant and can hinder a water exit plus they are cumbersome.

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If you have any information on why or how tubes can flip – please drop me a note.

I find that the lower I set my self in the tube the better control I have over it  This may take away some of my casting ability but I feel safer. Condolences on your loss

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On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died when his float tube over turned in a small pond near Prineville, Oregon. I don’t know what made the tube flip – but I know I will never use one again. Bill left two small boys – Sam, 2 and Jake, 7. Bill was an avid fly fisherman, moving to Prineville to teach science and be closer to the rivers he loved to fish. His last project, about two weeks ago,  was to take his class out and they planted 800 trees bordering a stream that had suffered from cattle grazing…..

   First of all, let me say I’m very sorry for your loss.    This should be a heads-up for float-tubers and anyone thinking about buying one.  A friend of mine flipped his in the Green River and fortunately was able to right himself in shallow water while I watched helplessly from fifty yards away.  He is 6′2" and 250 lbs and was in a Browning tube which is way too small and carries you way too high, especially if you are his size.  He will never use that tube again.  In the same year a boy drowned in that river when his tube flipped.  Tubing in rivers is especially dangerous because the current can make it even more difficult than it already is to free yourself from a flipped tube, not to mention hazards like rocks.  If you flip, don’t try to right yourself.  Try to remain calm and just swim out.    For what it’s worth, I have a Caddis tube.  It is about the largest diameter tube I have ever seen and I sit quite low in it.  I am 6′ and 170 lbs. and I don’t think I could flip it if I tried unless I was standing in very shallow water.  I also always wear a lifevest. -alan

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On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died when his float tube over turned in a small pond near Prineville, Oregon. I don’t know what made the tube flip – but I know I will never use one again. Bill left two small boys – Sam, 2 and Jake, 7. Bill was an avid fly fisherman, moving to Prineville to teach science and be closer to the rivers he loved to fish. His last project, about two weeks ago,  was to take his class out and they planted 800 trees bordering a stream that had suffered from cattle grazing. I hope the stream recovers… If you have any information on why or how tubes can flip – please drop me a note.

Tragic.  Deepest, deepest condolences. You did not mention the use of a life jacket.  Was your brother wearing one ? TW

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On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died when his float tube over turned in a small pond near Prineville, Oregon.  

        (Snip) Sheesh: you write a post like that to a group consisting of thousands of

lunatics who by definition sit around staring at their $2000 and up computertoys and fairly regularly drop $300-$500 on flyrods, $100-$400 on reels, take fly-in trips around the world, etc., etc., and you don’t tell us if the boys’ mother and you and whatever other family is involved could use a hand with the expenses of raising the boys and whether a trust fund has been set up for them and the address….? Maybe you/they don’t need a hand (i.e. if there a lawsuit pending against the tube manufacturer?) but if they do why don’t you let us know? Geez, I mean I might have to put off buying that new   reel I want for a whole month or so but I think I could swing it….

        Well, . very crass, but I think your heart is in the right place. I think its a super idea. If, after they recover some from the shock of their loss, the family would accept some help from others who shared your brothers passion, I for one would be very willing to help.  

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Question:

I’m canoing the Bowron Lake circuit next week and I don’t know what kind of fish I will find – trout, walleye, or northern pike?  Somebody please give me some advice on what to bring and what I’ll find.  Thanks…

Trout. — Isaac Lake President – Recreational Canoeing Association of British Columbia Master Instructor

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Mountain House and Alpenlite are the lures most likely to supply a decent meal on the Bowron Lakes.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m canoing the Bowron Lake circuit next week and I don’t know what kind of fish I will find – trout, walleye, or northern pike?  Somebody please The fishing is particularly good in June, in fact.  Mostly trout, including big lake trout down deep and some amazing rainbows.  Also a few whitefish.  Try paddling slow with  a white apex spoon about 3 inches long, down deep with about 2 ounces of weight. Fly fishing also works in close to shores. The guy who said to try freeze dried because its a park doesn’t know what he’s talking about.  Just make sure to get a fresh water licence from any sporting goods store and follow the regulations they give you.  Basically, 12 inch minimum. Dan Burnett Vancouver, B.C., Canada Tel: 604-691-7506  Fax:604-688-2827

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I’m canoing the Bowron Lake circuit next week and I don’t know what kind of fish I will find – trout, walleye, or northern pike?  Somebody please

The fishing is particularly good in June, in fact.  Mostly trout, including big lake trout down deep and some amazing rainbows.  Also a few whitefish.  Try paddling slow with  a white apex spoon about 3 inches long, down deep with about 2 ounces of weight. Fly fishing also works in close to shores. The guy who said to try freeze dried because its a park doesn’t know what he’s talking about.  Just make sure to get a fresh water licence from any sporting goods store and follow the regulations they give you.  Basically, 12 inch minimum. Dan Burnett Vancouver, B.C., Canada Tel: 604-691-7506  Fax:604-688-2827

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I’m canoing the Bowron Lake circuit next week and I don’t know what kind of fish I will find – trout, walleye, or northern pike?  Somebody please give me some advice on what to bring and what I’ll find.  Thanks…

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I’m canoing the Bowron Lake circuit next week and I don’t know what kind of fish I will find – trout, walleye, or northern pike?  Somebody please

Bring freeze dried- it’s a park. ian iGIVE ME Some advice on what to bring and what I’ll find.  Thanks…

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Question:

Is there a ".marketplace" version of this newsgroup?  I was told that there is but I can’t find it. Thanks

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I just caught up on some of the previously posted stuff and I now realize that my buddy was encouraging me to vote FOR a NEW newsgroup (the "marketplace" version I was wondering about). Therefore….nevermind. Dave

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Question:

My fishing buddy and I will be in Idaho Falls and Yellowstone the first of June.  Any suggestions on patterns and sizes will be greatly appreciated as this is our first visit to the area. Also, any information on small steams in the area and the outlook for that time of the year. Steve D.

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My fishing buddy and I will be in Idaho Falls and Yellowstone the first of June.  Any suggestions on patterns and sizes will be greatly appreciated as this is our first visit to the area. Also, any information on small steams in the area and the outlook for that time of the year. Steve D.

Hi Steve,         A friend of mine named Jim Mengle is a guide at Last Chance Lodge in Last Chance ID.  It’s right in the middle of the best rainbow fishing in the lower 48.  Big strong wild rainbows on the Henry’s Fork River!!!  The lodge is run by a great guy named Lynn Sessions & Family.  It’s about an hour northeast of Idaho Falls on route 20. It’s right on the banks of the Henry’s Fork River on the way to Yellowstone Park.  I would be up in that area if I were you…  As a matter of fact that is where I’ll be!  THE hatch  (Western Green Drake) will probably be happening about then.  Also PMDs size 16 and Caddis with green egg sacs about size 14-16.  Fishing Bead Head Nymphs size 14-16 and Black Rubber Legs size 6-10 are a good bet in the Box Canyon.  You can wade in the Box,  but it’s best fished by drift boat. I highly recommend getting a guide (Jim is one of the best).  The fishing up here can be beyond excellent but you have to pay your dues one way or another.  For more info you can call Jim at  home 208-652-7508 or Last Chance Lodge’s # is 1-800-428-8338.  You can also get a nice inexpensive room there, plus they have an excellent fly shop.  There is also a great fly shop in Idaho Falls called Jimmy’s All Season Angler which is run by Jimmy Gabettas & Family.  Their # is 208-524-7160.   All of the above will be happy to help you guys.                                 Have Fun! | Bruce Braunstein C.C.P. | 208-524-7001

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Question:

Re carp on dry flies.  I know that in Sydney, Australia, some people (Christ only knows why) fish for carp using a dry fly which imitates bread crumbs being thrown on the water.  Carp of up to 30 pounds are caught. Incidentally they are caught in a park where other people make a habit of feeding the fish bread.  Please tell me do you guys really fish for carp or do you just catch them by accident.  In Australia they are classified as vermin and you are required by law to kill any carp you catch.  There’s nothing worse that spending a morning fishing for trout in a lake and catching about 100 carp. Peter W

We’ve had a thread going on about defining a good fisherman recently. You get my vote for defining "BAD fisherman."                                 Mark — <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Harris Space Systems            ::                         Melbourne, FL

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Re carp on dry flies.  I know that in Sydney, Australia, some people (Christ only knows why) fish for carp using a dry fly which imitates bread crumbs being thrown on the water.  Carp of up to 30 pounds are caught. Incidentally they are caught in a park where other people make a habit of feeding the fish bread.  Please tell me do you guys really fish for carp or do you just catch them by accident.  In Australia they are classified as vermin and you are required by law to kill any carp you catch.  There’s nothing worse that spending a morning fishing for trout in a lake and catching about 100 carp. Peter W

A few months ago I was talking to Michael Clark at his shop in Lyons Colorado, and he told me about a competition that some of his friends were at at the time in (I think) Montana. It was a weekend event of Flyfishing for Carp! It started out as a joke, but it caught on among some serious flyfishers and now it gets competitors from all over the place. I would love to attend some time. I wonder if any trout got in the way of the Carp they were after? Someone out there must know more about it. Perhaps I’ll ask Mike for more details in case anyone is interested. It was in May or June I think. John Geirach was part of the Lyons contingency and his team placed 3rd or so. —     o,  ,,   ,      | Bernie Bernstein                    | ,    ,,     LO/  `,/ `    ,| University of Colorado at Boulder   |/ `,,/  `    O./  ’  / . `, / | home: 303-444-3168                  |     / ` `  ,.

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Amazingly, it is true. Carp hit dry flies. My neighbor and I each had ponds in our yard with bass, trout, and carp. In the late summer, the carp would come to the surface to feed on willow leaves from a tree that hung down over the pond. I tried everything to catch those fish without success (the bass and trout were easy but much smaller!). Finally, I put on a Hornberg – its a goofy looking fly that is normally fished wet but vaguely resembles a willow leaf, so I fished dry. Wham! I got several 5 to 15 pound carp on the surface. Careful stalking and reasonable casting were also important. My opinion of the fish did change a bit. Chris Beatty

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Re carp on dry flies.  I know that in Sydney, Australia, some people (Christ only knows why) fish for carp using a dry fly which imitates bread crumbs being thrown on the water.  Carp of up to 30 pounds are caught. Incidentally they are caught in a park where other people make a habit of feeding the fish bread.  Please tell me do you guys really fish for carp or do you just catch them by accident.  In Australia they are classified as vermin and you are required by law to kill any carp you catch.  There’s nothing worse that spending a morning fishing for trout in a lake and catching about 100 carp. Peter W

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