Question:

I intend to spend three weeks in and near the Kamloops, B.C. area in the spring or early summer, 2002 and would appreciate any information that may maximize my fishing success and pleasure. I will probably spend most my time on the lakes, but will want to hit a few of the smaller rivers and streams as well. I plan to take both a pontoon boat and a back-packable float tube. And, I have a sturdy 4 wheel vehicle. I will be living in my travel trailer, which I will probably park in an RV park some of the time, but can live in it in a wilderness environment for up to ten days. Any suggestions as to where to go would be appreciated. Ron Matson

Response:

I intend to spend three weeks in and near the Kamloops, B.C. area in the spring or early summer, 2002 and would appreciate any information that may maximize my fishing success and pleasure. I will probably spend most my time on the lakes, but will want to hit a few of the smaller rivers and streams as well. I plan to take both a pontoon boat and a back-packable float tube. And, I have a sturdy 4 wheel vehicle. I will be living in my travel trailer, which I will probably park in an RV park some of the time, but can live in it in a wilderness environment for up to ten days. Any suggestions as to where to go would be appreciated. Ron Matson

Somebody help me out here, Chan has an excellent book on lake fishing BC.   (CRAFT has struck – can’t remember the book title or his first name.) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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  Somebody help me out here, Chan has an excellent book on lake fishing BC.   (CRAFT has struck – can’t remember the book title or his first name.)

Isn’t his name Brian Chan?  I don’t recall the book title. — Warren Findley Remove (nospamZZ) to respond via email http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/

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The regulations for BC freshwater fishing are at http://www.monday.com/fishing/. Go to region 3, Thmpson-Nicola. General regulations state there is no fishing in any stream from jan 01 to June 30. Exceptions are listed in the regulaiton booklet. With the iming of your trip, I suspect that stream fishing may be limited I wouldn’t worry about that as th lake fishing is quite excellent, challenging, and rewarding. A pontoon boat will be perfect, but I suggest you get an anchor for staying still while working weedy areas. Float tubes are good for smaller lakes, but nothing beats a pontoon boat. I suggest looking at three books. "Kamloops: An angler’s study of the Kamloops Trout" by Steve Raymond. ISBN 1-878175-734. "Morris and Chan an Fly Fishing Trout Lakes" by Skip Morris and Brian Chan. ISBN 1-57188-181-6 "Fly Patterns for Stillwaters" by Phil Rowley ISBN 1-57188-195-6 The above books all were written by authors with intimate knowledge of fishing in the Kamloops area. Get these three books,a nd you will have all the informtion you need about where to start fishing, techniques, and fly patterns. When you get there, local fly shops will be more tham willing to let you know which lakes are on or not. Also, try the Sportfishng on the Fly Forum area at http://www.sfotf.com/forum/ and go to the flyfishing forum. My experience with this board is that is very helpful and used bymany peopl who fish the Kamloops area. I love fishing that area, and get out there once or twice a year. I am hoping to spend a week in May in the area as well. Tim Lysyk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I intend to spend three weeks in and near the Kamloops, B.C. area in the spring or early summer, 2002 and would appreciate any information that may maximize my fishing success and pleasure. I will probably spend most my time on the lakes, but will want to hit a few of the smaller rivers and streams as well. I plan to take both a pontoon boat and a back-packable float tube. And, I have a sturdy 4 wheel vehicle. I will be living in my travel trailer, which I will probably park in an RV park some of the time, but can live in it in a wilderness environment for up to ten days. Any suggestions as to where to go would be appreciated. Ron Matson

Response:

I intend to spend three weeks in and near the Kamloops, B.C. area in the

<SNIP You might look here; http://www.sportfishingbc.com/index.htm and here; http://www.fishbc.com/adventure/angling/index.html TL MC

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I intend to spend three weeks in and near the Kamloops, B.C. area in the spring or early summer, 2002 and would appreciate any information that may maximize my fishing success and pleasure. I will probably spend most my time on the lakes, but will want to hit a few of the smaller rivers and streams as well. I plan to take both a pontoon boat and a back-packable float tube. And, I have a sturdy 4 wheel vehicle. I will be living in my travel trailer, which I will probably park in an RV park some of the time, but can live in it in a wilderness environment for up to ten days. Any suggestions as to where to go would be appreciated. Ron Matson Somebody help me out here, Chan has an excellent book on lake fishing BC.   (CRAFT has struck – can’t remember the book title or his first name.) Peter

Morris and Chan On fly fishing trout lakes. Frank Amato Publications inc. ISBN 1-57188 181-6 Try www.anglingbc.com www.kamfly.com www.discoverbc.com www.fishbc.com www.flyshop.com www.ariverneversleeps.com As a good friend of mine in Kamloops says, ‘There are over a thousand lakes within a couple of hours drive from town. It would take more than one lifetime to fish them all.’ Now there’s a challenge! HTH Chris ( In UK)

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More info, just checked my bookshelf : Softback ‘BCFishing’. 56 maps, 5000 waters described (briefly). Seems a very useful resource to me. Published by BC Outdoors (annually, updated) $12.95 Can. ISBN (1999 / 2000 edition) 9 781896 373249 Also try www.anglersatlas.com for maps. Chris ( still in the UK, wanna be in BC)

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this websitewill be helpfull http://www.bcadventure.com/adventure/angling/stillwater/index.phtml

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I intend to spend three weeks in and near the Kamloops, B.C. area in the spring or early summer, 2002 and would appreciate any information that may maximize my fishing success and pleasure. I will probably spend most my time on the lakes, but will want to hit a few of the smaller rivers and streams as well. I plan to take both a pontoon boat and a back-packable float tube. And, I have a sturdy 4 wheel vehicle. I will be living in my travel trailer, which I will probably park in an RV park some of the time, but can live in it in a wilderness environment for up to ten days. Any suggestions as to where to go would be appreciated. Ron Matson

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Question:

How are the water levels? Is the water still fast and muddy from the rain last weekend?…… Any luck catching? I’m prob. going to fish the Ramapo later tonight ….  any fly suggestions or should i just start out nymphing….Thanks Mitch

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Mitch I’ve been fishing Dutchess (next county up) and its gotten much better. Water is still very high, but down from last weekend by a noticable amount. The last few warm days has brought the water temp up to 42 degs (as of this morning’s pre-work session).  Clarity is improving, but still fairly "brown water" conditions.  There has been a good midge hatch every evening since Sunday’s rain ended.  Last night saw the first aggressive rises on my home water since the rain/snow melt weeks. They were slurping and slashing at those midges! In general, activity has been much better mid-day to nightfall after the sun has been on the water for most of the day. Hope that helps. TL, John

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How are the water levels? Is the water still fast and muddy from the rain last weekend?…… Any luck catching? I’m prob. going to fish the Ramapo later tonight ….  any fly suggestions or should i just start out nymphing….Thanks Mitch

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Thanks John for the info….I’m gong opening day in NJ Sat. at the Flatbrookafter lunch until dark…I think the water levels out western NJ should be pretty good and today’s weather is just fine.Hope the weekend is this warm to spur some hatches….Thanks again

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Question:

Do you think atheists are more likely than Judeo-Christians to abuse their elderly parents (on account of the fact that they don’t believe in God and therefore are not held to that ridiculous "honor thy father and mother" edict)?

No, I don’t. But I do think that different cultures often develop very different attitudes about animals and about how they should be treated. That’s pretty hard to deny. Cows are sacred in India. Pigs are "unclean" in Moslem and Jewish culture. Dogs are food items in Vietnam. Horses are food items in France. Japanese fishermen deliberately kill large numbers of dolphins. It goes on and on. These practices and attitudes may be consistent and uncontroversial within a culture. Problems arise, however, when different cultures interact. I think that’s what’s happening with the Amish puppy mills. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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TWIMC 1. Horse trading with Amish? Want to lose your shirt? . . . only a fool. . . . Thats just a fact and if anyone on this NG would like to test it with their own money, I will personally offer to make comforting cooing sounds when you return without your money and with 3 to 6 new assholes. 2. Yeah, they do have a different attitude toward animals: They are single minded farmers surviving with a minimum of technology in a corporate farming world. They have to pay their taxes like everyone else, and the have lots of kids to help get established. Land costs money. They do what they have to to survive and Im not going to pick at their sores. Earth to ROFF! Earth to ROFF! 3. Associating Amish run puppy mills with Amish people is a stretch? . . . is bigoted? What a crock. Maybe its a stretch if you don’t get around much. Steve is right. Try this one on: Is mentioning the leading involvement of young renegade Amish in several high profile Pennsylvania drug busts . . . bigoted? Or is it just that shit happens? See, young Amish men raise hell. Surprise. Sheesh! 4. What is so hard about understanding that the difference between bigotry and cultural objectivity has a broad band of gray running down the middle. Its not your simple-minded binary geek-friendly, male preferred "either or" call. Scheesh, fucken word weenies! 5. Just as an FYI item: There are some unflattering terms that Amish use for non-Amish. One is "English." What are some or the others? Dave Ideology sucks

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – rw, I would like to see some proof that the Amish mis-treat their animals, do you have any?  Raising puppies for sale doesn’t make them bad guys.  If you want to point your finger at someone I suggest you look into the racing dog business and some of the filthy puppy mills we have in California. There’s Amish folk in California?  :-) Joe F.

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rw, I would like to see some proof that the Amish mis-treat their animals, do you have any?  Raising puppies for sale doesn’t make them bad guys.  If you want to point your finger at someone I suggest you look into the racing dog business and some of the filthy puppy mills we have in California. Ernie "rw" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is different. The reason it’s different is that the Amish religion teaches that animals are to be used for utilitarian purposes only, and not kept as pets. That’s just fine with me. I have no problem with that at all. However, it seems to be having the perverse effect that the Amish have become major players in the puppy mill business, which supplies animals to pet shops. They look at the animals as merely commodities, as just another "crop", even though the final customers buy them as pets. The Amish certainly aren’t the only people in the puppy mill business, but they are major players. I realize that people who don’t care about dogs probably don’t give a shit, but it’s a sore point with me. It’s a very cruel business.

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In standard ROFF form, I’m now being portrayed as "anti-Amish".

Not so fast my evil name-twin Nobody said you’re anti-Amish, did they? Your statements simply appear to present a somewhat stereotypical view of Amish beliefs, IMO. I’m not, of course. I’m anti-puppy-mill. It just happens that for historical and cultural reasons some Amish are very involved in the puppy mill business. That’s an easily verified fact.

It’s easily verified that there are Amish families involved in the puppy mill business. It’s NOT easily verified that they’re in that business because they’re Amish. There’s a HUGE difference between "some Amish people abuse animals" and "some people abuse animals because they’re Amish." It sounds as though you were somehow implying the latter. Do you think atheists are more likely than Judeo-Christians to abuse their elderly parents (on account of the fact that they don’t believe in God and therefore are not held to that ridiculous "honor thy father and mother" edict)? –Steve

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Ken Fortenberry writes: … (I expect Fortenberry to start denouncing me as an antisemite now. … Stop your whining, Barnard. — Ken Fortenberry- can actually spell anti-Semite

<<<splork

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rw, I would like to see some proof that the Amish mis-treat their animals, do you have any?  Raising puppies for sale doesn’t make them bad guys.  If you want to point your finger at someone I suggest you look into the racing dog business and some of the filthy puppy mills we have in California.

There’s Amish folk in California?  :-) Joe F.

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Give him hell if you want, Bob, but beware, you may end up with a picture of Snoop Doggy Dog under your name on the ROFF Faces page.

  Oh, god, I’ve gone too far.  Anything but that!  I know I should have kept my opinions to myself.  Oh, crap.   It was really out of character for me to respond in such a manner and, normally, I wouldn’t.  But it did strike me that some stereotyping is acceptable and some isn’t.  I would never support a puppy mill business no matter who runs it.  If the Amish do indeed participate in the puppy mill business, I’m certainly not in favor of it.  I’ll bet this and many other topics will be discussed around the "campfire" on the SJ.  I’m going to be really, really nice to everyone so as to avoid any "mislabeling". Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

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Prehaps because they win a lot of races! Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Strange, then perhaps you can explain explain why Amish trained horses always bring a premium price? An Amish lady is trotting down the road in her horse and buggy when she is pulled over by a policeman. "Ma’am, I’m not going to ticket you, but I do have to issue you a warning. You have a broken reflector on your buggy." "Oh, I’ll let my husband, Jacob, know as soon as I get home." "That’s fine.  Another thing, ma’am,  I don’t like the way than one rein loops across the horse’s back and around one of his testicles. I consider that cruelty to animals. Have your husband take care of that right away!" Later that day, the lady is home telling her husband about her encounter with the cop. "Well, dear, what exactly did he say?" "He said the reflector is broken." "I can fix that in two minutes.  What else?" "I’m not sure, Jacob…something about the emergency brake…" Frank (dodging road apples) Church The Amish have many admirable qualities, but the way they treat their animals isn’t one of them, in my opinion. For one thing, they are notorious for running puppy mills. As a dog fancier, I despise that. It’s also common wisdom that you should never even consider buying a horse from an Amish. They treat animals strictly as economic units. Maybe some of you guys in ROFF think that’s OK, but I don’t. It’s fine with me when it comes to chickens and pigs, but I draw the line as dogs and horses. If there are any devout Amish flyfisherman I’m confident in predicting that they don’t practice C&R. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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The Amish have many admirable qualities, but the way they treat their animals isn’t one of them, in my opinion. For one thing, they are notorious for running puppy mills. As a dog fancier, I despise that. It’s also common wisdom that you should never even consider buying a horse from an Amish. They treat animals strictly as economic units. Maybe some of you guys in ROFF think that’s OK, but I don’t. It’s fine with me when it comes to chickens and pigs, but I draw the line as dogs and horses. If there are any devout Amish flyfisherman I’m confident in predicting that they don’t practice C&R.

  Holy stereotype, Batman!  Where the hell are all the PC cops?  This isn’t my job but since none of the regular PC cops stepped forward:   If someone on this group were to say, "blacks are lazy welfare bums, Mexicans are lazy, Jews are money hungry, Pollocks are dumb, southerners are in-bred hillbillies, asians are shifty, all male flight attendants are flamingly gay, Indians are drunken bums, eastern fly fishers are sissy boys or westerners are room temperature IQ rednecks," the roff PC police would have jumped on them in a flash.  But —- I guess this is different. Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

As for "puppy mills", ain’t never heard of one being run by the amish. They must be a lower order of amish located in Pennsylvania. (ducking here)

Go into google and search on "amish puppy mills". It’s appalling. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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<context snipped  Pollocks are dumb, <more snippage eastern fly fishers are sissy boys or westerners are room temperature IQ rednecks,"

You got at least one of these right.  Pollocks (those inferior north atlantic cousins of the haddock that they try to sell as "schrod" when the cod are not biting…) are dumb as hell. –Stan (Polack first class)

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  Holy stereotype, Batman!  Where the hell are all the PC cops?  This isn’t my job but since none of the regular PC cops stepped forward:   If someone on this group were to say, "blacks are lazy welfare bums, Mexicans are lazy, Jews are money hungry, Pollocks are dumb, southerners are in-bred hillbillies, asians are shifty, all male flight attendants are flamingly gay, Indians are drunken bums, eastern fly fishers are sissy boys or westerners are room temperature IQ rednecks," the roff PC police would have jumped on them in a flash.  But —- I guess this is different.

It is different. The reason it’s different is that the Amish religion teaches that animals are to be used for utilitarian purposes only, and not kept as pets. That’s just fine with me. I have no problem with that at all. However, it seems to be having the perverse effect that the Amish have become major players in the puppy mill business, which supplies animals to pet shops. They look at the animals as merely commodities, as just another "crop", even though the final customers buy them as pets. The Amish certainly aren’t the only people in the puppy mill business, but they are major players. I realize that people who don’t care about dogs probably don’t give a shit, but it’s a sore point with me. It’s a very cruel business. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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  Holy stereotype, Batman!  Where the hell are all the PC cops? … But —- I guess this is different.

Exactly. Some here ARE different and have proven themselves to be so thoroughly insufferable and egotistical that it’s not productive to waste any energy admonishing them about their ugly prejudices. Give him hell if you want, Bob, but beware, you may end up with a picture of Snoop Doggy Dog under your name on the ROFF Faces page. — Ken Fortenberry- "Porky Forty"

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It is different. The reason it’s different is that the Amish religion teaches that animals are to be used for utilitarian purposes only, and not kept as pets… [snip] They look at the animals as merely commodities, as just another "crop", even though the final customers buy them as pets.

RW, I found your puppy mills post to be enlightening. I learned something from you and I appreciate that. I’m much less inclined to purchase from a pet store should my kids ever talk me into having a pet. But, despite your explanation, I’m a bit uncomfortable with your Amish stereotype. As an example (and *only* as an illustrative example), try this on… "The Black culture teaches Black men that it’s OK to father children out of wedlock. Women are to be used for utilitarian purposes only and not to be kept as wives. They look at women as merely commodities, just another crop, even though children are born as a result." Sounds pretty bad, doesn’t it? If I were to suggest such a thing on this forum I would be ostracized and rightfully so. I’m not suggesting that you be ostracized, but rather that it’s not *because* they’re Amish that they’re doing something so despicable. –Steve

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: It is different. The reason it’s different is that the Amish religion : teaches that animals are to be used for utilitarian purposes only, and : not kept as pets. Hmm, for starters I don’t believe that, and even if the general gist is true, the two are not mutually exclusive. The Amish are people, just like us, and I cannot believe that many of them don’t get attached to their animals, especially since they interact with, and even depend on, them more than we do. FWIW, I’d much rather see an animal get used than stand in a pen every day or sit in a cramped dog run. I’ll bet you won’t see an Amish horse develop the "bad" habits that indicate psychological imbalance (i.e., pacing, cribbing, pawing, and other repetetive acts). The fact is, there is *way* more abuse by us "recreational" pet owners. : They look at the animals as merely : commodities, as just another "crop", This is simple stereotyping. Yes, I’ve no doubt that there are "bad apples" in the Amish communities, just as there are in ours. People are people. But "they" aren’t any worse than us, and in many ways they might even be better… JonCook. — Are you a r.o.f.f. newbie? Then see http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~jcook/ROFF/

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is different. The reason it’s different is that the Amish religion teaches that animals are to be used for utilitarian purposes only, and not kept as pets… [snip] They look at the animals as merely commodities, as just another "crop", even though the final customers buy them as pets. RW, I found your puppy mills post to be enlightening. I learned something from you and I appreciate that. I’m much less inclined to purchase from a pet store should my kids ever talk me into having a pet. But, despite your explanation, I’m a bit uncomfortable with your Amish stereotype. As an example (and *only* as an illustrative example), try this on… "The Black culture teaches Black men that it’s OK to father children out of wedlock. Women are to be used for utilitarian purposes only and not to be kept as wives. They look at women as merely commodities, just another crop, even though children are born as a result." Sounds pretty bad, doesn’t it? If I were to suggest such a thing on this forum I would be ostracized and rightfully so. I’m not suggesting that you be ostracized, but rather that it’s not *because* they’re Amish that they’re doing something so despicable.

Many stereotypes have an element of truth to them. For example, in the Middle Ages the Church forbade Christians from charging interest on loans, but Jews were under no such restriction. As a result, many Jews became moneylenders, thereby encurring the resentment of Christians who owed them money. So we get stereotypes like Shakespeare’s Shylock that strike many people as offensive (I think that’s a misreading of The Merchant of Venice), but the stereotype was based on a real cultural practice. (I expect Fortenberry to start denouncing me as an antisemite now. That would be funny.) The Amish puppy mills are similar, I think. According to the Amish religious tradition there’s nothing wrong with them, but dog fanciers don’t see it that way. They see a cruel business. I’d never say that all Amish are cruel to animals, but I do think that Amish religious beliefs allow some of them to do something (run puppy mills) that many people believe is wrong, and to do it with a clear conscience. In other words, they’re acting consistently within their own moral framework, but that framework is at odds with the morals of the larger society that they have to deal with. There are a lot of examples of these sorts of conflict between what different cultures think is moral — female circumcision in Africa, Japanese whaling, capital punishment in America (from a European point of view), etc. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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… (I expect Fortenberry to start denouncing me as an antisemite now. …

Stop your whining, Barnard. — Ken Fortenberry- can actually spell anti-Semite

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In standard ROFF form, I’m now being portrayed as "anti-Amish". I’m not, of course. I’m anti-puppy-mill. It just happens that for historical and cultural reasons some Amish are very involved in the puppy mill business. That’s an easily verified fact. It’s kind of like saying that because someone doesn’t like diamonds he must be antisemitic. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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The Amish have many admirable qualities, but the way they treat their animals isn’t one of them, in my opinion. For one thing, they are notorious for running puppy mills. As a dog fancier, I despise that. It’s also common wisdom that you should never even consider buying a horse from an Amish. They treat animals strictly as economic units. Maybe some of you guys in ROFF think that’s OK, but I don’t. It’s fine with me when it comes to chickens and pigs, but I draw the line as dogs and horses. If there are any devout Amish flyfisherman I’m confident in predicting that they don’t practice C&R. visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Well shit!  That’ll be my last Amish joke.  I will take issue with you RW, on the matter of how amish folks treat their animals…with the exception of my 20+ yrs military and globe trotting out of Elkhart county, I have lived with these folks as my neighbors for most of my life.  They see *any* of their animals as a food source or work unit, even cats are used in the main to keep the rodents out of the grain. Therefore, especially in the case of horses, they are well trained and taken care of…who wants a sickly horse pulling the plow?  Of course, they use huge draft horses for the work, and sleek "trotters" for pulling the buggy. 20 miles from my house is a huge auction barn where they hold horse auctions every Friday, and folks come from miles around to trade with these rapscallions. As for "puppy mills", ain’t never heard of one being run by the amish. They must be a lower order of amish located in Pennsylvania. (ducking here) As to flyfishing, I’ve only witnessed one instance of that, and it was so funny I had to stop my own fishing and just watched.  This would-be flyflinger (in a small boat) would bring the rod clear back to horizontal, then with great force, bring it forward using a full overhead arm swing, to parallel with the water in front.  The resulting splash was something to behold!  Our bluegill population was safe from this guy. Frank (where’s my black hat?) Church

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Because they dont see bloody monty roberts and his bad training techniques on the telly )

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Strange, then perhaps you can explain explain why Amish trained horses always bring a premium price? An Amish lady is trotting down the road in her horse and buggy when she is pulled over by a policeman. "Ma’am, I’m not going to ticket you, but I do have to issue you a warning. You have a broken reflector on your buggy." "Oh, I’ll let my husband, Jacob, know as soon as I get home." "That’s fine.  Another thing, ma’am,  I don’t like the way than one rein loops across the horse’s back and around one of his testicles. I consider that cruelty to animals. Have your husband take care of that right away!" Later that day, the lady is home telling her husband about her encounter with the cop. "Well, dear, what exactly did he say?" "He said the reflector is broken." "I can fix that in two minutes.  What else?" "I’m not sure, Jacob…something about the emergency brake…" Frank (dodging road apples) Church The Amish have many admirable qualities, but the way they treat their animals isn’t one of them, in my opinion. For one thing, they are notorious for running puppy mills. As a dog fancier, I despise that. It’s also common wisdom that you should never even consider buying a horse from an Amish. They treat animals strictly as economic units. Maybe some of you guys in ROFF think that’s OK, but I don’t. It’s fine with me when it comes to chickens and pigs, but I draw the line as dogs and horses. If there are any devout Amish flyfisherman I’m confident in predicting that they don’t practice C&R. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Strange, then perhaps you can explain explain why Amish trained horses always bring a premium price?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – An Amish lady is trotting down the road in her horse and buggy when she is pulled over by a policeman. "Ma’am, I’m not going to ticket you, but I do have to issue you a warning. You have a broken reflector on your buggy." "Oh, I’ll let my husband, Jacob, know as soon as I get home." "That’s fine.  Another thing, ma’am,  I don’t like the way than one rein loops across the horse’s back and around one of his testicles. I consider that cruelty to animals. Have your husband take care of that right away!" Later that day, the lady is home telling her husband about her encounter with the cop. "Well, dear, what exactly did he say?" "He said the reflector is broken." "I can fix that in two minutes.  What else?" "I’m not sure, Jacob…something about the emergency brake…" Frank (dodging road apples) Church The Amish have many admirable qualities, but the way they treat their animals isn’t one of them, in my opinion. For one thing, they are notorious for running puppy mills. As a dog fancier, I despise that. It’s also common wisdom that you should never even consider buying a horse from an Amish. They treat animals strictly as economic units. Maybe some of you guys in ROFF think that’s OK, but I don’t. It’s fine with me when it comes to chickens and pigs, but I draw the line as dogs and horses. If there are any devout Amish flyfisherman I’m confident in predicting that they don’t practice C&R. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Amish have many admirable qualities, but the way they treat their animals isn’t one of them, in my opinion. For one thing, they are notorious for running puppy mills. As a dog fancier, I despise that. It’s also common wisdom that you should never even consider buying a horse from an Amish. They treat animals strictly as economic units. Maybe some of you guys in ROFF think that’s OK, but I don’t. It’s fine with me when it comes to chickens and pigs, but I draw the line as dogs and horses. If there are any devout Amish flyfisherman I’m confident in predicting that they don’t practice C&R. Geeze. Way to let the air out of a good joke, steve…

Geez, I thought the C&R thing was at least a little comic relief. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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An Amish lady is trotting down the road in her horse and buggy when she is pulled over by a policeman. "Ma’am, I’m not going to ticket you, but I do have to issue you a warning. You have a broken reflector on your buggy." "Oh, I’ll let my husband, Jacob, know as soon as I get home." "That’s fine.  Another thing, ma’am,  I don’t like the way than one rein loops across the horse’s back and around one of his testicles. I consider that cruelty to animals. Have your husband take care of that right away!" Later that day, the lady is home telling her husband about her encounter with the cop. "Well, dear, what exactly did he say?" "He said the reflector is broken." "I can fix that in two minutes.  What else?" "I’m not sure, Jacob…something about the emergency brake…" Frank (dodging road apples) Church

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – An Amish lady is trotting down the road in her horse and buggy when she is pulled over by a policeman. "Ma’am, I’m not going to ticket you, but I do have to issue you a warning. You have a broken reflector on your buggy." "Oh, I’ll let my husband, Jacob, know as soon as I get home." "That’s fine.  Another thing, ma’am,  I don’t like the way than one rein loops across the horse’s back and around one of his testicles. I consider that cruelty to animals. Have your husband take care of that right away!" Later that day, the lady is home telling her husband about her encounter with the cop. "Well, dear, what exactly did he say?" "He said the reflector is broken." "I can fix that in two minutes.  What else?" "I’m not sure, Jacob…something about the emergency brake…" Frank (dodging road apples) Church The Amish have many admirable qualities, but the way they treat their animals isn’t one of them, in my opinion. For one thing, they are notorious for running puppy mills. As a dog fancier, I despise that. It’s also common wisdom that you should never even consider buying a horse from an Amish. They treat animals strictly as economic units. Maybe some of you guys in ROFF think that’s OK, but I don’t. It’s fine with me when it comes to chickens and pigs, but I draw the line as dogs and horses. If there are any devout Amish flyfisherman I’m confident in predicting that they don’t practice C&R.

Geeze. Way to let the air out of a good joke, steve… /daytripper (Get laid or something. Soon. ;^)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – An Amish lady is trotting down the road in her horse and buggy when she is pulled over by a policeman. "Ma’am, I’m not going to ticket you, but I do have to issue you a warning. You have a broken reflector on your buggy." "Oh, I’ll let my husband, Jacob, know as soon as I get home." "That’s fine.  Another thing, ma’am,  I don’t like the way than one rein loops across the horse’s back and around one of his testicles. I consider that cruelty to animals. Have your husband take care of that right away!" Later that day, the lady is home telling her husband about her encounter with the cop. "Well, dear, what exactly did he say?" "He said the reflector is broken." "I can fix that in two minutes.  What else?" "I’m not sure, Jacob…something about the emergency brake…" Frank (dodging road apples) Church

The Amish have many admirable qualities, but the way they treat their animals isn’t one of them, in my opinion. For one thing, they are notorious for running puppy mills. As a dog fancier, I despise that. It’s also common wisdom that you should never even consider buying a horse from an Amish. They treat animals strictly as economic units. Maybe some of you guys in ROFF think that’s OK, but I don’t. It’s fine with me when it comes to chickens and pigs, but I draw the line as dogs and horses. If there are any devout Amish flyfisherman I’m confident in predicting that they don’t practice C&R. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Question:

If you’d be so kind as to indulge me in a little fish story… Last weekend my family and I went camping in Yosemite valley.  I will not get into the planning and strategies necessary to camp with seven-month old twins for four nights but suffice to say that I was, by the grace of my dear wife, able to sneak away for a little fishing here and there. If you’ve never been there, well, it really is as pretty as you’ve heard.  And much to my amazement, there are fish swimming in the Merced river — right by the spots that millions (well, hundreds of thousands, anyway) of tourists traverse each summer.  I have always assumed that any water with that ease of access and that many people around would be fished out.  But this isn’t the case here.  I suppose that (a) the artificial fly regulations limit the casual baitfishing that often accompanies camping and (b) most people are there to see El Capitan, Half Dome, and the waterfalls.  Anyway, as it turns out there were fish swimming in both the Merced and Tenaya Creek.  The following is the story of one of those fish. The river is extremely low this time of year — not surprising — and the fishing was challenging.  It was like fishing on a mirror, the water was so smooth, clear, and slow-moving. On the third morning I walked downstream until I got to a spot where Katy and I had seen fish the day before.  The good news was they were rising.  The bad news was I couldn’t figure out what they were rising to as nothing seemed to be coming off the water.  I suspect they were taking emergers of some type but never really figured it out.  I crawled to the water’s edge and started throwing out the usual suspects — small caddis, morning duns, light cahills, mosquitos, even a royal wulff.  Nothing.  Fish would rise just behind my fly so I hadn’t scared them — they had just taken a long look at my offering and found it wanting.  Ok, that’s not working.  I tried fishing a couple of these wet with the same effect.  Just for kicks I tied on an ant and cast that under a few branches.  Nothing. At this point I was getting a little frustrated — I’d been working this pool for practically two hours, watching fish rise the whole time, and hadn’t been able to elicit so much as a strike.  I suppose I should have been happy that I hadn’t scared them yet either but that seemed an awful small victory at the time.  I also started to feel that perhaps I should have paid a little bit closer attention in biology.  Stupid bugs. I retreated to a rock to sit and think for a minute.  Having thrown every likely dry in my box I decided it was time to (as my brother-in-law would say) turn to the dark side.  I started to tie on a royal coachman for an indicator and a small prince nymph dropper off the back of the hook.  As I was sitting working on my knots I heard a rustling in the brushes across the river.  I turned to see what it was and saw a deer and her fawn emerging on the far bank.  They seemed unfazed by my presence — I’m sure they have seen plenty of people — and proceeded down to the river to drink.  Figuring that they would go elsewhere once they caught a good whiff of me (remember it’s day three folks…), I turned my attention back to the river and cast out the double rig. About halfway through the pool — a drift that seemed like it took five minutes — I heard splashing behind me.  The deer were crossing the current and coming my way.  I stopped watching my fly and watched them walk by, no more than 20 feet away at the tree line.  As an aside, I overheard a lot of people that weekend complaining that the only wildlife they saw were squirrels and scrub jays — they just needed to get out of bed a little early, find a likely spot, and sit quietly for a while.  The park isn’t a zoo, folks.  Anyway. I decided that seeing the deer was a pretty cool thing and that I should be happy about that too.  It was getting late and I needed to be heading back to camp to help out with breakfast.  I rationalized that a couple more casts wouldn’t really make me that late, right?  I could walk a little faster back to camp. I cast out once again, just in front of an overhanging branch.  The coachman slowly drifted under the branch and then, suddenly, gone! Eyes to brain:  MSG URGENT you’ve got a strike…  I set the hook and started working on getting the fish in. A couple splashes and quick runs later I was unhooking a surprised 12" brown trout.  I know that the standard joke is that big fish are big and small fish are "nice" or "pretty" or "jewels" but I never get over the brilliant markings on a brown trout.  So colorful. That pretty much made the morning.  I cut off the flies, put them back in my box, reeled up my line, and humped it back to camp double-time — just in time for a fresh batch of pancakes off the griddle.  My brother-in-law and father-in-law (who had both declined to go with me that morning) did not believe me about my catch, but my wife saw the look in my eye and knew that I had indeed been successful in my hunt. I ended up getting back to this spot later in the afternoon, ready to go at it again, but by then the river was full of kids throwing rocks and splashing around.  The moment to fish that spot had passed — we were leaving the next morning.  I know that a more accomplished angler may have pulled five or six fish out of that pool in the two-plus hours that I worked it, but that one fish was like a reward, payoff for patience and sticking at it. Thanks for reading, BW Brad Williams father of twins — fly fisher — teller of long stories * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Brad, Nice story.. I believe you!  :) Made me want to fish!! -Mark If you’d be so kind as to indulge me in a little fish story…

– Particle Salad/ Noom Room Studio http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad mp3 songs: http://www.mp3.com/particlesalad

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If you’d be so kind as to indulge me in a little fish story…

Nice story, glad you got a fish. TL MC

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Nice story Brad.  The smooth water in the meadows is fun to fish, but the fish are easier to catch if you go upstream to where the white water is. The fish are wild since they quit stocking hatchery trout in the park. Ernie Harrison Have you tried a Blood Knot Machine?  http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2

If you’d be so kind as to indulge me in a little fish story…

<nice story snipped – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Brad Williams

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Question:

Can anyone tell me about fishing for striped bass in Oregon? Thanks, Gary Ingram

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Can anyone tell me about fishing for striped bass in Oregon? Thanks, Gary Ingram

Hi Gary, I guess there are some in the lower Umpqua river and in a tributary, the Smith river?  It was really smoken’ in the 60s and 70s, but it kinda’ died?  It might be going a bit, but you will have to explore the local areas. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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I also am a striper fanatic in oregon.  I have a few secrets as to what and where to catch stripers here in oregon.  If you are interested  I may have a deal for you that can put you on some trophies.     If interested reply to this message!!!!

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Question:

3) a downlocking reelseat is easier to install when building the rod    yourself…because uplocking reelseat require that you cut a "pocket"    into the cork grip for the "cap" (not sure if that is the correct    word for the stationary, formed band which holds the forward "foot"    of the reel. I’d add to this:    4) A downlocking reelseat leaves less of a rod butt sticking out for your line to get tangled around.  HPH

             5) A downlocking reelseat is earier to attach a reel to, if the butts down, of course.   Gary C. "Lie ? Me ? Never!  No, no, no, the truth is far too much fun !" – Captain Hook

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… differences between up and downlocking reel seats …

Among those I know, the single biggest deciding factor was that the end-cap on down-locking seats had a tendency to break free (eg, the epoxy wouldn’t hold).  Long after they switched, they’d learn to highlite the advantages of up-locking. My own stats are ~40% of my downlocking end caps pop off within 3 years.  I usually retrieve the cap off the stream bottom (the reel too), severely scratch the inside of the cap, use a razor on the wood seat, and re-epoxy (avoid the 5 minute expoxies).  None of the repaired caps have since fallen off.     (——     (~~~~~~     (     (~~~~~~     (——                 ~ = roughed up interior walls of cap. use                     backside of a exacto razor tip.                 / = barb-like gouges into the wood reel seat.                     most reel seat wood is extremely hard, so                     cutting at an angle of 45 degrees to a depth                     of ~1/32" is all you’ll need. I personally prefer downlocking on trout rods, in part because I gain ~6" rod length in casting because my hand can grasp near the base of the cork. Thomas Gilg

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I’m thinking of building a fly rod (my first), which would probably be a five weight trout rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why? Thanks in advance.

If you are using a cigar handle, I don’t think it matters too much.  If you are using a full or half wells handle, you want uplocking, so that the reel is as close to your hand as possible.  This improves the rod feel, in my less than humble opinion.   On the cigar handle, I find that I slide my hand down to the reel, over the reel seat.  I use slip ring reel seats when I build these rods.  I don’t have any problem with them loosening up.   — Andrew Brunette

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One other comment about uplocking reel seats.  I’ve found that I prefer them because when playing a large fish, it’s nice to have that extra extension (even though it’s small) should you put the reel against your chest.  I play larger steelhead and salmon that way using heavier rods…and that’s much of my fishing.  When I hook onto a good sized trout, I tend to revert to old habits every so often.  If you have an exposed rim, then it’s not a good idea to put it against your clothing.  So….that’s one other consideration but only relevant if you have my sometimes bad habit.  I’ve got trout rods that are both uplocking and downlocking….but I wouldn’t want my bigger rods to be downlocking. Barry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking of building a fly rod (my first), which would probably be a five weight trout rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why? Thanks in advance. Actually, I think you will find the comercial rods pretty well split betweenup locking and downlocking, but not many slide bands. Here are what I generally hear as to the advantages/disadvantages:    With uplocking you can get the line tangled around the rod butt easier.    With downlocking, your reel gets in the dirt if you put the rod butt on the ground.    There may be a better balance with your reel with one or the other. In general, I don’t think there is a big difference either way. Choose what looks and feels the best to you. Lyman Lyman G. Hughes Dallas, TX Ennis, MT

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking of building a fly rod (my first), which would probably be a five weight trout rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why? Thanks in advance. If you are using a cigar handle, I don’t think it matters too much.  If you are using a full or half wells handle, you want uplocking, so that the reel is as close to your hand as possible.  This improves the rod feel, in my less than humble opinion. On the cigar handle, I find that I slide my hand down to the reel, over the reel seat.  I use slip ring reel seats when I build these rods.  I don’t have any problem with them loosening up. — Andrew Brunette

from a usability (as opposed to construction of the rod) perspective: downlocked reels also seem to have a slightly clock pendulum effect – which makes the rod tip waver around a bit – on a light rod this matters a little more since you’ll be wanting to do delicate, accurate casting. hands do slide down to them too

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Rick Fletcher) writes:   To be serious, I’m interested in your reasons for rule 3.  If you could   describe what works best, I might be able to make up some chemical   reason for your preference.   —   "The scientist formerly known as Rick"   T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Don’t know the compositional difference, but the epoxy I use for rod building is much stronger than the 5 min stuff.  I believe the stuff is made by Flex-Coat, but I am not sure.  Anyway, I did some simple tests and the 5min ranked lowest among the 3 I tried cheers,    -tgades

If you’re looking for the strongest epoxies for a given application, you might  want to contact either Minnesota Mining (3M) Commercial Adhesives or ITW  adhesives of Danvers, MA. Both companies are listed in the Thomas Register and  3M has a full catalog listing there.

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I’m sorry Metaphacts, but tell that to my shoulder after hours of casting with a tip heavy rod.  Static balancing the rod makes a big difference in sensitivity and in reducing fatigue. Peter – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In fact I do get it, I was trying to simplify.  Obviously, the balance point chanes with the amount of line out of reel, as well as the line through guides, and yes I am refering to the static balance point. Static balancing a rod/reel combo means nothing to the casting stroke. Ever.  . The point is some rods are tip heavier then others, If you don’t believe that, just go check some blanks at your local shop.  That does not make them necessarily ‘bad’ rods.  I have an rpl 490-4 that I love but is tip heavier then most.  Generally I find 4 piece rods to fall into this catagory quite often.   It’s a personal thing. The rod you describe is one I returned after fishing it. Absolutely hated the inability to work tough situations (spring creek from 30 feet or less). The rod I chose instead is a dream with a 12ft leader and 15 feet of line out the tip, yet can still heave 70 feet with ease, and accuracy. All with the same line size. That is a balanced rod. BTW, I have a 4 piece rod that is not tip heavy either. My point is that relative to the right rod choice for your casting style and fishing needs, uplocking vs downlocking is trivial. When nyphing, which is what I do alot with this rod, with line out , the balance point (down locking) is in a more desirable place then with the reel moved further up the blank (uplocking), which then shifts the balance point yet closer to the tip, making the rod less pleasing, more tiring to fish on a long 10 hr day.  Subtle, yet noticable. I suggest taping your reel (with line out and also with line on reel), to differenet positions at rear of blank to determine most comfortable balance point for you (static and kinetic).  then find a reel seat that places the reel roughly in that postition. After having said all that, the #1 reason I use downlocking seets is to squeeze an extra inch or two out of ’shorter’ rods, when I use them to nymph. Interesting. I too hold the reel when nymphing with my short rod in a difficult situation. But then my shortest rod is an 8′ 2 wt. Everything else is 9′. The real irony in this is that the stuff Orvis is doing in their Tridents is a more sensible way to balance an overly tip heavy rod. Adding mass in the grip at the hand balances the tip without the increased inertia of adding mass well away from the pivot point. Of course, because the weight is close to the pivot point, it will have to be greater than if you hung it out 6-8 inches behind it. Choosing the material thay have to dampen rod vibrations may or may not be a bonus, depending on how much of the input is damped out along with the excessive vibration. Seems to me like the long way home so to speak. Better to spend a lot more time picking the right blank (by casting finished rods w/ line, leader, and fly) than to be so concerned with reel seats. The right fishing tool is always better, regardless of the reel seat. Cheers, gp

Response:

Hi all, Out here in California we have no down locking reel seats to speaks of. I guess most of the fly fishers out here prefer uplocks. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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No Winstons in California???  I knew that state was weird. Just Kidding. Bob

: Hi all, : Out here in California we have no down locking reel seats to speaks of. : I guess most of the fly fishers out here prefer uplocks.

Response:

I’ve got a different take on down- and up-locking reel seats. If you think of a pendulum, the reel rides farther back of your hand with a down-locking seat. This little 1/2-1" difference can help balance the rod a little more. There’s nothing worse than a top-heavy rod. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why?

Response:

THE REAL REASON FOR UPLOCKING REEL SEATS: (It’s got nothing to do with center of balance) OK, suppose you have a downlocking real seat.  You screw the locking band down tight.  This forces the reel seat down into the cap, which is attached to the reel seat… how? If it is an all-aluminum seat, it’s probably spot-welded. If you have a wooden insert, it’s probably epoxied on.  So one day you are out fishing, waist deep in a fast riffle.  You notice that your reel feels a little loose, so you tighten the locking band down a little tighter, and then the cap pops off and disappears downstream, never to be seen again.  You make a grab for your reel, but you are too slow and it plummets to the bottom (if you’re lucky; if your drag is set loose and the current is fast, the reel sails off downstream until all of the line and backing are peeled off.) This could happen to you.  (It happened to me…) The two morals of the story: 1.  Never buy another rod with a downlocking reel seat.  With an uplocking seat, the stress is on the threaded sleeve on the end of the reel seat, which at least has a larger glueing surface, so is less likely come adrift. 2.  Never leave the house without a roll of black electricians tape.  A few turns of black tape will hold your reel onto that broken reel seat until you can get it fixed.  In fact, you may find that the tape seems to hold the reel on more solidly than the reel seat did, and not bother to get it fixed. — Kevin Vang Dept. of Mathematics Minot State University Minot, ND 58707

Response:

: And to that I would add: : 3. Never buy a rod from someone who uses 5 minute epoxy to glue up a : reel seat. Geez Phil, what do you suggest?  Should we hold out for the 10 minute stuff or go all the way to 2 hours? To be serious, I’m interested in your reasons for rule 3.  If you could describe what works best, I might be able to make up some chemical reason for your preference. — "The scientist formerly known as Rick" T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

In fact I do get it, I was trying to simplify.  Obviously, the balance point chanes with the amount of line out of reel, as well as the line through guides, and yes I am refering to the static balance point.

Static balancing a rod/reel combo means nothing to the casting stroke. Ever.   . The point is some rods are tip heavier then others, If you don’t believe that, just go check some blanks at your local shop.  That does not make them necessarily ‘bad’ rods.  I have an rpl 490-4 that I love but is tip heavier then most.  Generally I find 4 piece rods to fall into this catagory quite often.  

It’s a personal thing. The rod you describe is one I returned after fishing it.  Absolutely hated the inability to work tough situations (spring creek from 30  feet or less). The rod I chose instead is a dream with a 12ft leader and 15  feet of line out the tip, yet can still heave 70 feet with ease, and accuracy.  All with the same line size. That is a balanced rod. BTW, I have a 4 piece rod that is not tip heavy either. My point is that relative to the right rod choice for your casting style and  fishing needs, uplocking vs downlocking is trivial. When nyphing, which is what I do alot with this rod, with line out , the balance point (down locking) is in a more desirable place then with the reel moved further up the blank (uplocking), which then shifts the balance point yet closer to the tip, making the rod less pleasing, more tiring to fish on a long 10 hr day.  Subtle, yet noticable. I suggest taping your reel (with line out and also with line on reel), to differenet positions at rear of blank to determine most comfortable balance point for you (static and kinetic).  then find a reel seat that places the reel roughly in that postition. After having said all that, the #1 reason I use downlocking seets is to squeeze an extra inch or two out of ’shorter’ rods, when I use them to nymph.

Interesting. I too hold the reel when nymphing with my short rod in a difficult  situation. But then my shortest rod is an 8′ 2 wt. Everything else is 9′. The real irony in this is that the stuff Orvis is doing in their Tridents is a  more sensible way to balance an overly tip heavy rod. Adding mass in the grip  at the hand balances the tip without the increased inertia of adding mass well  away from the pivot point. Of course, because the weight is close to the pivot  point, it will have to be greater than if you hung it out 6-8 inches behind  it. Choosing the material thay have to dampen rod vibrations may or may not be  a bonus, depending on how much of the input is damped out along with the  excessive vibration. Seems to me like the long way home so to speak. Better to spend a lot more time  picking the right blank (by casting finished rods w/ line, leader, and fly)  than to be so concerned with reel seats. The right fishing tool is always  better, regardless of the reel seat. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Cheers, gp

Response:

Downlocking reel seats hold the reel away from your hand and the centre of rotation of the rod while casting. This increases the momentum and makes it harder to stop the rod on the back and forward casting strokes. Uplocking reel seats move the mass the reel towards the centre of the palm and reduce the momentum. Making it easier to accelerate and deccelerate the rod during casting. Jon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – of a pendulum, the reel rides farther back of your hand with a down-locking seat. This little 1/2-1" difference can help balance the rod a little more. There’s nothing worse than a top-heavy rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why?

Response:

I’ve got a different take on down- and up-locking reel seats. If you think of a pendulum, the reel rides farther back of your hand with a down-locking seat. This little 1/2-1" difference can help balance the rod a little more. There’s nothing worse than a top-heavy rod.

That’s not balance.  A balanced outfit  will have a minimum amount of weight as  close to the casting hand as possible. Now you know why Vince Marinaro loved the Orvis CFO. It was the lightest reel  available at the time.

Response:

 I think the point being made is that in many cases you need a ‘heavier’ reel to balance the rod.  So when assembled, balance point is somewhere in top third of grip.  By using a downlocking seat, the reel is moved further back, facilitating the use of a lighter reel while still keeping balance point in the top third of the grip…get it? Cheers, gp – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got a different take on down- and up-locking reel seats. If you think of a pendulum, the reel rides farther back of your hand with a down-locking seat. This little 1/2-1" difference can help balance the rod a little more. There’s nothing worse than a top-heavy rod. That’s not balance.  A balanced outfit  will have a minimum amount of weight as close to the casting hand as possible. Now you know why Vince Marinaro loved the Orvis CFO. It was the lightest reel available at the time.

Response:

I think the point being made is that in many cases you need a ‘heavier’ reel to balance the rod.  So when assembled, balance point is somewhere in top third of grip.  By using a downlocking seat, the reel is moved further back, facilitating the use of a lighter reel while still keeping balance point in the top third of the grip…get it? Cheers, gp

Uh no. I don’t think you do get it. What you are speaking of is static balance.  It is totally irrelevant. As soon as line is out and you are trying to load  the rod, you have moved the balance point. Since the amount of weight between  the reel and the tip vary with line weight, taper, place in the line taper,  and even the amount of line you have off the reel at your feet at the time,  the balance point you describe changes with every cast.  If you want the best control of the rod, remove the reel and let the line lay  in coils at  your feet. Cast with no reel at all. Start, stop, change of  direction, and all manner of casting become more precise than with any reel,  light or heavy. Adding weight only takes away from the precision, so just pick  what you like. Tip heavy rods that you are trying to "balance" with a heavy reel  are just  that, tip heavy. No matter whose name is on them, they’re probably not very  good fishing tools. However, by  loading some of the newer technology rods with a very heavy reel,  you can damp out some of the undesirable rod vibration that occur in starting,  stopping, and changing direction. But a better idea might be to buy a rod that  doesn’t require such damping in the first place. As for uplocking and downlocking, there have been a number of preferences  expressed. I own them both.  Unless you are custom ordering a rod, you might  want to choose the rod before you worry about which way the reel seat works.

Response:

In fact I do get it, I was trying to simplify.  Obviously, the balance point chanes with the amount of line out of reel, as well as the line through guides, and yes I am refering to the static balance point.  . The point is some rods are tip heavier then others, If you don’t believe that, just go check some blanks at your local shop.  That does not make them necessarily ‘bad’ rods.  I have an rpl 490-4 that I love but is tip heavier then most.  Generally I find 4 piece rods to fall into this catagory quite often.   When nyphing, which is what I do alot with this rod, with line out , the balance point (down locking) is in a more desirable place then with the reel moved further up the blank (uplocking), which then shifts the balance point yet closer to the tip, making the rod less pleasing, more tiring to fish on a long 10 hr day.  Subtle, yet noticable. I suggest taping your reel (with line out and also with line on reel), to differenet positions at rear of blank to determine most comfortable balance point for you (static and kinetic).  then find a reel seat that places the reel roughly in that postition. After having said all that, the #1 reason I use downlocking seets is to squeeze an extra inch or two out of ’shorter’ rods, when I use them to nymph. Cheers, gp – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think the point being made is that in many cases you need a ‘heavier’ reel to balance the rod.  So when assembled, balance point is somewhere in top third of grip.  By using a downlocking seat, the reel is moved further back, facilitating the use of a lighter reel while still keeping balance point in the top third of the grip…get it? Cheers, gp Uh no. I don’t think you do get it. What you are speaking of is static balance. It is totally irrelevant. As soon as line is out and you are trying to load the rod, you have moved the balance point. Since the amount of weight between the reel and the tip vary with line weight, taper, place in the line taper, and even the amount of line you have off the reel at your feet at the time, the balance point you describe changes with every cast. If you want the best control of the rod, remove the reel and let the line lay in coils at  your feet. Cast with no reel at all. Start, stop, change of direction, and all manner of casting become more precise than with any reel, light or heavy. Adding weight only takes away from the precision, so just pick what you like. Tip heavy rods that you are trying to "balance" with a heavy reel  are just that, tip heavy. No matter whose name is on them, they’re probably not very good fishing tools. However, by  loading some of the newer technology rods with a very heavy reel, you can damp out some of the undesirable rod vibration that occur in starting, stopping, and changing direction. But a better idea might be to buy a rod that doesn’t require such damping in the first place. As for uplocking and downlocking, there have been a number of preferences expressed. I own them both.  Unless you are custom ordering a rod, you might want to choose the rod before you worry about which way the reel seat works.

Response:

The differences… 1) an uplocking reelseat puts the reel closer to your hand which is less    tiring (moment = force x length) IF you have a lighter, shorter rod 2) your hand is less likely to loosen the reelseat in an uplocking seat    (but brush is more likely to loosen it) 3) a downlocking reelseat is easier to install when building the rod    yourself…because uplocking reelseat require that you cut a "pocket"    into the cork grip for the "cap" (not sure if that is the correct    word for the stationary, formed band which holds the forward "foot"    of the reel. Hope this helps. George B. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking of building a fly rod (my first), which would probably be a five weight trout rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why? Thanks in advance.

Response:

I prefer uplocking.  When casting all day my hand tends to work its way down toward the reel.  Having the reel at the bottom of the grip stops my hand,  and the rod seems to balance better.   I have built a couple of rods using slip rings, but don’t recommend them.  I have had to fish my reel out of the water too often. Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking of building a fly rod (my first), which would probably be a five weight trout rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? Richard T. Whitney

Response:

The differences… 1) an uplocking reelseat puts the reel closer to your hand which is less    tiring (moment = force x length) IF you have a lighter, shorter rod 2) your hand is less likely to loosen the reelseat in an uplocking seat    (but brush is more likely to loosen it) 3) a downlocking reelseat is easier to install when building the rod    yourself…because uplocking reelseat require that you cut a "pocket"    into the cork grip for the "cap" (not sure if that is the correct    word for the stationary, formed band which holds the forward "foot"    of the reel.

I’d add to this:         4) A downlocking reelseat leaves less of a rod butt sticking out for your line to get tangled around.  HPH

Response:

I’m thinking of building a fly rod (my first), which would probably be a five weight trout rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why? Thanks in advance.

Response:

I’m thinking of building a fly rod (my first), which would probably be a five weight trout rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why? Thanks in advance.

i have an old rod with a down-locking reel seat.  i noticed when my grip was low the reel seat would loosen.  i haven’t had any problems with this on up-locking reel seats. if you are building your rod, i would recommend an up-locking reel seat, since you can do either. chris

Response:

I’m thinking of building a fly rod (my first), which would probably be a five weight trout rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why? Thanks in advance.

Actually, I think you will find the comercial rods pretty well split betweenup locking and downlocking, but not many slide bands. Here are what I generally hear as to the advantages/disadvantages:         With uplocking you can get the line tangled around the rod butt easier.         With downlocking, your reel gets in the dirt if you put the rod butt on the ground.         There may be a better balance with your reel with one or the other. In general, I don’t think there is a big difference either way. Choose what looks and feels the best to you. Lyman Lyman G. Hughes Dallas, TX Ennis, MT

Response:

Hello, Many years ago, after I bought my first rod, an Orvis Far and Fine with downlocking reel seat, I read somewhere that uplocking reel seats are less vulnerable to loosening in use.  I have subsequently found by experience that this is true.  Evidently, gravity tends to load the locking ring of the uplocking seat thus helping it to stay locked, but it unloads the screw threads of downlocking seats. Regards, Yuji Sakuma – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, I think you will find the comercial rods pretty well split betweenup locking and downlocking, but not many slide bands. Here are what I generally hear as to the advantages/disadvantages:         With uplocking you can get the line tangled around the rod butt easier.         With downlocking, your reel gets in the dirt if you put the rod butt on the ground.         There may be a better balance with your reel with one or the other. In general, I don’t think there is a big difference either way. Choose what looks and feels the best to you. Lyman Lyman G. Hughes Dallas, TX Ennis, MT

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Question:

Hi all, Just thought I’d let everyone know that I caught my first trout ever on a fly rod yesterday. Man, what a thrill. Although I’m basically a "live-bait on a spin reel person", I’ve messed around with my "fly outfit" the last couple of years. Never had much success until yesterday though. Not a bad sized rainbow either. Around 11". Oh well, I’m sure this is no big deal to most of you but I just had to tell someone. Everyone in my family has no clue as to what it’s like. I figure you all do. See ya on the streams!!!!! Tom

Congratulations on the first trout on a fly! Got mine last summer.  Went t some state parks in southeast Minnesota in mid august.  Caught my first on a #12 Wolly Bugger a 12"Rainbow. caught the rest – a total of 14 browns from 8-13 inches mostly on my own design— a kind of peacock and guinea soft hackle that looks like a small minnow when wet.  Don’t know what to call it. Biggest thrill was casting about 40 ft across the river at Forrestville, having a 12" brown jump out of the water with the fly in its mouth, run half way across the river to me and do a double flip 10 feet in front of me!  Talk about getting hooked on fly fishing!  WOW! I will be going back this year to MN or Wisconsen to repeat the fun! Good luck, Ken — Remove NO-SPAM- from return address to e-mail me. Sorry, but this is to discourage spammers and auto junk mail generators. Ken Wells "When In Doubt….Go fishing."

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, Just thought I’d let everyone know that I caught my first trout ever on a fly rod yesterday. Man, what a thrill. Although I’m basically a "live-bait on a spin reel person", I’ve messed around with my "fly outfit" the last couple of years. Never had much success until yesterday though. Not a bad sized rainbow either. Around 11". Oh well, I’m sure this is no big deal to most of you but I just had to tell someone. Everyone in my family has no clue as to what it’s like. I figure you all do. See ya on the streams!!!!! Tom Tom, Nice going with the first trout…I am also relatively new (<2 yrs) and enjoy hearing about people and fly fishing. Of course the next step done this road-to-ruin is fly tying….no rush, take your time, but getting your first trout on a fly you tird is also outstanding…. As you can probably tell, I’m consumed by this experience called fly fishing….if I only didn’t have to work…… — John Carney          Fly Fisher & Parrot Head (NO-SPAM in address to avoid spamming)

And I’ll bet that, just for a minute or two, while you were landing thiat first trout, you considered throwing away ALL your baitcasting and spinning gear.  Welcome to the Club!! Mac McCaskill

Response:

Trout hit my first two casts hard, and kept hitting every type of dry fly I used aggressively all day. I missed a ton of good strikes (sure could use some advice on setting the hook correctly),

Tom; You note that you missed these aggressive strikes.  That happens because (often) an aggresively striking wild fish is hanging-out under/around some current somewhere near the bottom.  He sees your fly (food) and shoots up, slamming the fly and zips right back down to the bottom as fast as a Rattle-snake strike.  Well, unlike a natural fly, yours has a leader attached to it.  I’m sure that you have noticed how much force water can exert on your line.  This happens with the fly.  The drag of the tippet can pull the fly from the fish’s mouth, or cause him to "spit it out" before you can set the hook.  I have noticed this a lot recently while fishing emergers during the sulfur hatch.  WHACK!… nothing. Jason Beary

Response:

Congratulations on the first trout on a fly! Got mine last summer.  Went t some state parks in southeast Minnesota in mid august.  Caught my first on a #12 Wolly Bugger a 12"Rainbow. caught the rest – a total of 14 browns from 8-13 inches mostly on my own design— a kind of peacock and guinea soft hackle that looks like a small minnow when wet.  Don’t know what to call it.

A bug. John Fereira

Response:

[snipped] Just thought I’d let everyone know that I caught my first trout ever on a fly rod yesterday.

[snipped] Well done Tom!  Nice innitt? On a more serious note(!)  You are now in danger of becoming the best Definition: The best angler in the world = whichever angler at that given instant in time is enjoying themselves the most. richard

Response:

Congratulations Tom, I too caught my first, a 14" Brown, on Wednesday in the Clear Fork river (Ohio).    It was a store-bought fly, but that didn’t make it any less exciting.   Like you, nobody around me has any clue what its like. Bob  

Response:

Hi, Congratulations. I had the same problem,  so I bought my fiance her own kit,  now she joins me on all the trips,  and the best is that she is not using my expensive rods. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey Tom: <<Oh well, I’m sure this is no big deal to most of you but I just had to tell someone. Everyone in my family has no clue as to what it’s like. I figure you all do. It is a "big deal". The outdoor learning process can sometimes be frustrating when there is no father, brother, aunt or uncle to answer your questions or share your experiences. So…, thanks for taking the time and sharing with us. Congratulations! Tight lines, Joe

Response:

Congratulations, Seems just like yesterday … so many years now. Next will be that monster brown on a fly you tied.  Nothing beats the feeling of a first anything.  I don’t know about others on ROFF but there is still nothing like splash of an eager trout or the slurp of the grandfather of all trout. That’s just a feeling that never gets old. Corey http://www.ncweb.com:80/users/crbock/

Response:

Hi all, Just thought I’d let everyone know that I caught my first trout ever on a fly rod yesterday. Man, what a thrill.

Just wanted to drop my 2 cents in, too. I fished the Great Smoky Mountain National Park last weekend, doing some very deep, hike-in mountain stream fishing, and had the best day of dry fly fishing in my short (about 1 year) career fly fishing. Trout hit my first two casts hard, and kept hitting every type of dry fly I used aggressively all day. I missed a ton of good strikes (sure could use some advice on setting the hook correctly), but I did bring in an 11-inch wild mountain rainbow. My God, what a fish this was! Never seen that kind of coloring before. These fish are naturally reproducing, wild trout (even though their ancestors were imported to the area and stocked until the 1970s). Even so, this guy fought hard, jumped at least 12 times, and left me speechless at having takien my first wild trout in such a beautiful setting. For you Midwestern FFers, I have a story on FFing in the Smokies coming up in the summer issue of Midwest Fly Fishing magazine that provides local contact numbers and other information. E-mail me off-list if you want more information. Dave McCarty

Response:

Hey Tom:

<<Oh well, I’m sure this is no big deal to most of you but I just had to tell someone. Everyone in my family has no clue as to what it’s like. I figure you all do. It is a "big deal". The outdoor learning process can sometimes be frustrating when there is no father, brother, aunt or uncle to answer your questions or share your experiences. So…, thanks for taking the time and sharing with us. Congratulations! Tight lines, Joe

Response:

Hi all, Just thought I’d let everyone know that I caught my first trout ever on a fly rod yesterday. Man, what a thrill. Although I’m basically a "live-bait on a spin reel person", I’ve messed around with my "fly outfit" the last couple of years. Never had much success until yesterday though. Not a bad sized rainbow either. Around 11". Oh well, I’m sure this is no big deal to most of you but I just had to tell someone. Everyone in my family has no clue as to what it’s like. I figure you all do. See ya on the streams!!!!! Tom

Tom, Nice going with the first trout…I am also relatively new (<2 yrs) and enjoy hearing about people and fly fishing. Of course the next step done this road-to-ruin is fly tying….no rush, take your time, but getting your first trout on a fly you tird is also outstanding…. As you can probably tell, I’m consumed by this experience called fly fishing….if I only didn’t have to work…… — John Carney          Fly Fisher & Parrot Head (NO-SPAM in address to avoid spamming)

Response:

Hi all, Just thought I’d let everyone know that I caught my first trout ever on a fly rod yesterday. Man, what a thrill. Although I’m basically a "live-bait on a spin reel person", I’ve messed around with my "fly outfit" the last couple of years. Never had much success until yesterday though. Not a bad sized rainbow either. Around 11". Oh well, I’m sure this is no big deal to most of you but I just had to tell someone. Everyone in my family has no clue as to what it’s like. I figure you all do. See ya on the streams!!!!! Tom

Response:

Hi all, Just thought I’d let everyone know that I caught my first trout ever on a fly rod yesterday. Man, what a thrill. Although I’m basically a "live-bait on a spin reel person", I’ve messed around with my "fly outfit" the last couple of years. Never had much success until yesterday though. Not a bad sized rainbow either. Around 11". Oh well, I’m sure this is no big deal to most of you but I just had to tell someone. Everyone in my family has no clue as to what it’s like. I figure you all do. See ya on the streams!!!!! Tom

didja et it…? — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Question:

[deleted] GOOD LUCK; they’re not for the PURIST, but they can be DEADLY on our steelhead here in BC.

Roe is a natural food source and the glo bug is an imitation of the natural.  In *NO* way is this different then an imitation of a Pseudocloen or Flavalinia. Purists (?) be damned ! ‘Pure’ly hypocritical, IMNSFHO. TimW

Response:

I tie what I call a "golden egg" Tie in led wrap, if wanted, on a wide gap hook. Tie on orange hackle for a wet fly to match the size hook (1/0 to Tie in gold mylar cheniel at butt and wrap forward and tie off. Wrap hackle forward and tie off. Whip finish head.  This fly works great for Steelhead and Salmon in California. Have fun.   Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know how to tie this rascal? I have been l;ooking for instructions for my brother in law since before christmas. I would really appreciate any instructions or maybe a link to where I can find out. Thanx

Response:

Does anyone know how to tie this rascal? I have been l;ooking for instructions for my brother in law since before christmas. I would really appreciate any instructions or maybe a link to where I can find out. Thanx There are a mulititude of different versions, the easiest is a ball of chenelle on a hook.  I use glo-bug yarn of various colors.  THe yarn is quite thick and works well.  THe basic procedure is to cut off a piece of yarn about 1 cm long.  Put the yarn over the hook, a couple of wraps and fare it like deer hair.

PERFECT instructions. Remember to use the STRONGEST thread you can find, and tie it down HARD, and I mean HARD. Then, using the SHARPEST scissors you have, grab the "parachute", pull it up, and saw the yarn off about 1/4" OR LESS from the shank. It will "flare" into a ball. REMEMBER that ALL of the material (and you don’t need much) is tied on the TOP of the hook;  there is NO material AT ALL on the bottom, at least the way I tie them, and they can be tied in about 30 seconds !!!   To get that little "DOT", I simply lay a small piece of yarn, only a few mm in diameter, on TOP of the main colour. When "parachuted", sawed and flared, that little piece becomes the dot as the ends come  up and meet. They are SO easy to tie that you’ll wonder why you had problems before. GOOD LUCK; they’re not for the PURIST, but they can be DEADLY on our steelhead here in BC. In the spring, add a little polar bear hair, seal’s fur or white ostrich plume to simlute the spent egg casings, and the cutthroat just go nuts over them  (well, at least here in BC where we have ‘Cuts and hatching salmon !!!!       ). Regards de Mikey. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -You can stop here and have the simplest, quickest, who cares if you loose it fly that catches fish.  Or you can bulk it up with more wraps.   You can also trim the yarn into a small tight ball.. Some people add a little red or white etc.. to give a different look.. experiment… BTW, you used to be able to get a mixed bag of yarn with a foot of each color.. Ian

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I have recently started tying a different style of egg pattern known as the scrambled egg.  Wrap thread over the hook shank and tie a 2 – 3 inch strand of yarn to the top of the hook at the eye.  Pinch the strand between your left finger and thumb and pull your hand back towards the bend, so that the yarn slips under tension between your finger and thumb.  Pull back about 1/4 to 3/8 inch in this way, and then move your thumb and finger back up to the point where the yarn is lashed down — forming a "bubble" of yarn on top of the hook.  Wrap the thread around the shank between your fingers and the ‘bubble’.  Repeat this process three or four times, until you reach the bend of the hook, and the thread is wrapped behind the last bubble.  Now, wrap the thread forward across the rear bubble, so that the thread splits the bubble into two lateral regions, forming two bumps of yarn side by side.  Put down a wrap between the two rear most bubbles, and then move forward again, splitting the next bubble in two.  Go all the way to the front of the hook like this, so you finish with about eight ‘eggs’ side by side on top of the length of the hook.  A couple half hithces finishes it off. If you lash down two strands of yarn of different colors side by side, you can acheive a multi-colored egg cluster.  When you wrap forward with the ‘bubble splitting’ wraps, put the thread between the two colors. The attractive feature of this fly, besides the fact that it works, is that it can be tied in about 20 seconds. -Jon

Response:

Does anyone know how to tie this rascal? I have been l;ooking for instructions for my brother in law since before christmas. I would really appreciate any instructions or maybe a link to where I can find out. Thanx

Response:

Does anyone know how to tie this rascal? I have been l;ooking for instructions for my brother in law since before christmas. I would really appreciate any instructions or maybe a link to where I can find out. Thanx

Go to the hobby store and buy some yarn or chenile balls  in the size and color that you want.  Slid them on the hook and apply a drop of glue.  If you want take a pentel marker and add a spot of color. Pretty easy.

Response:

Does anyone know how to tie this rascal? I have been l;ooking for instructions for my brother in law since before christmas. I would really appreciate any instructions or maybe a link to where I can find out. Thanx

Try posting this to rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying — Bob Jarvis Mail addresses hacked to foil automailers!

Response:

Does anyone know how to tie this rascal? I have been l;ooking for instructions for my brother in law since before christmas. I would really appreciate any instructions or maybe a link to where I can find out. Thanx

There are a mulititude of different versions, the easiest is a ball of chenelle on a hook.  I use glo-bug yarn of various colors.  THe yarn is quite thick and works well.  THe basic procedure is to cut off a piece of yarn about 1 cm long.  Put the yarn over the hook, a couple of wraps and fare it like deer hair. You can stop here and have the simplest, quickest, who cares if you loose it fly that catches fish.  Or you can bulk it up with more wraps.   You can also trim the yarn into a small tight ball.. Some people add a little red or white etc.. to give a different look.. experiment… BTW, you used to be able to get a mixed bag of yarn with a foot of each color.. Ian

Response:

Does anyone know how to tie this rascal? I use glo-bug yarn of various colors.  THe yarn is quite thick and works well.  THe basic procedure is to cut off a piece of yarn about 1 cm long.  Put the yarn over the hook, a couple of wraps and fare it like deer hair.

I usually use 3 or 4 strands to make a real tight ball when it’s trimmed.   Also, I will make one of the strands a different color to represent the egg eye (e.g., red with salmon orange egg).  Great fish catcher! -Burton — L. Burton Hawley         2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

Response:

Does anyone know how to tie this rascal? I use glo-bug yarn of various colors.  THe yarn is quite thick and works well.  THe basic procedure is to cut off a piece of yarn about 1 cm long.  Put the yarn over the hook, a couple of wraps and fare it like deer hair. I usually use 3 or 4 strands to make a real tight ball when it’s trimmed.   Also, I will make one of the strands a different color to represent the egg eye (e.g., red with salmon orange egg).  Great fish catcher!

That’s that way that I tie them too.  One of the other things that I’ve done is to take a few wisps of white marabou and tie them just in front of the egg.  I’m not sure if it simulates part of the egg sac or an egg that has been fertilized but it seem to work well. Someone asked about how to tie an erzats (sp/) egg awhile back and I don’t think I ever saw an answer.  I fooled around with some of that sparkle chennile that’s used in an erzats egg awhile back and just couldn’t figure out how they are done. John Fereira

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Question:

Anyone know of a Horse/Burro Co. that bring folks into the Kings Canyon area of California?  Or maybe a suggested newsgroup I might try. Thanks. Randy Rose

Response:

Anyone know of a Horse/Burro Co. that bring folks into the Kings Canyon area of California?  

There are a number of pack stations that take people into Kings Cyn.  A few are actually in Kings Cyn. and Sequoia Parks and there are several on the east side off US Highway 395.  Best source of names and addresses are two publications from the Automobile Club of Southern Calif. (AAA):    1. The guide book "Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks"    2. The map "Guide to Eastern Sierra" BTW, the fishing, esp. fly fishing, on the small creeks early in the season and the So. Fork of the Kings in late summer and fall is among the best in Calif. and you don’t have to walk or ride very far to escape the crouds.

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Question:

I like to use spoons for Northern fishing, I have good luck with little Cleo spoons ( silver ). Johnson weedless spoons are nice for getting into the weeds. Another choice are the rattling raps. Do not fish for the Walleyes my self ( I am a transplant ). Good luck

Response:

| I have just accepted an invitation to go to Western Ontario in July to fish | for Walleye and Northern Pike in a fly in lake close to Armstrong, Ontario. | I have never fished for those fish and would like some first hand advice on | the lures that are most productive for these fish. I have several catalogs | that have lures for these fish, but I have no idea what colors to use or | anything else. Could some of you people in MN or WI give me some advice on | what I should bring with me. One other question, I have seen several | crankbaits in those books that are advertised for Walleye. Would medium to | deep running cranks I use for bass work?   | | Ray D. Johnson – Texas Eastman Co. B1, Box 7444, Longview TX 75607 | UUCP: …{allegra,rutgers}!rochester!kodak!ektools!txtc01!s884896 | X.400 ADDRESS:    C=US A=MCI P=KODAK DDA=ID=ECDVM1.L836644   Rapalas (floating, count-down, shad-raps) in silver/black and gold/black.  A few daredevles in red/w and 5 of diamonds.  Some jigs and rigs for use with live bait like minnows and leeches.  A few plastic mr twisters or fuzzie grubs to go on the jigs.  If there are smallmouth, throw in a couple of tiny torpedos. — Del Cecchi  

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ines: 17 {

{14 pound wallie on my wall caught with a little minnow on a hook. { {Stephen In our state using live minnow is illegal. What is the best bait for wallies other than a live minnow?

Nothing beats a leech. — G.

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I have found the best bait for wallies is a hook and a live minnow.  The minnow must be alive, if it’s dead so is your fishing.  Take a minnow net with you and in the early morning drag it through a weed bed and you should get plenty of minnows for the day.  I know this sounds like a pain and if you don’t do it I don’t blame you.  But take one just in case the artificials don’t do the trick and your skunked after four days.  I have a 14 pound wallie on my wall caught with a little minnow on a hook. Stephen

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{ { {I have found the best bait for wallies is a hook and a live minnow.  The {minnow must be alive, if it’s dead so is your fishing.  Take a minnow net {with you and in the early morning drag it through a weed bed and you {should get plenty of minnows for the day.  I know this sounds like a pain {and if you don’t do it I don’t blame you.  But take one just in case the {artificials don’t do the trick and your skunked after four days.  I have a {14 pound wallie on my wall caught with a little minnow on a hook. { {Stephen In our state using live minnow is illegal. What is the best bait for wallies other than a live minnow? -GF-

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| { | { | {I have found the best bait for wallies is a hook and a live minnow.  The | {minnow must be alive, if it’s dead so is your fishing.  Take a minnow net | {with you and in the early morning drag it through a weed bed and you | {should get plenty of minnows for the day.  I know this sounds like a pain | {and if you don’t do it I don’t blame you.  But take one just in case the | {artificials don’t do the trick and your skunked after four days.  I have a | {14 pound wallie on my wall caught with a little minnow on a hook. | { | {Stephen | | In our state using live minnow is illegal. What is the best bait for wallies | other than a live minnow? | | -GF- In the summer, leeches are better than minnows and they don’t die as fast.  They can even be mail ordered I think.  They also work great for smallmouth bass. — Del Cecchi  

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – { { {I have found the best bait for wallies is a hook and a live minnow.  The {minnow must be alive, if it’s dead so is your fishing.  Take a minnow net {with you and in the early morning drag it through a weed bed and you {should get plenty of minnows for the day.  I know this sounds like a pain {and if you don’t do it I don’t blame you.  But take one just in case the {artificials don’t do the trick and your skunked after four days.  I have a {14 pound wallie on my wall caught with a little minnow on a hook. { {Stephen In our state using live minnow is illegal. What is the best bait for wallies other than a live minnow? -GF-

but is plastic, some with flavor enhancements…not sure on the flavor though…….Also, smaller plastic worms like super-do’s….get the pearl color or silver/black……caught a 5 lb walleye on the silver/black one. Good luck… — Digiboard 6400 Flying Cloud Drive Eden Prairie, MN  55344        

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have just accepted an invitation to go to Western Ontario in July to fish for Walleye and Northern Pike in a fly in lake close to Armstrong, Ontario. I have never fished for those fish and would like some first hand advice on the lures that are most productive for these fish. I have several catalogs that have lures for these fish, but I have no idea what colors to use or anything else. Could some of you people in MN or WI give me some advice on what I should bring with me. One other question, I have seen several crankbaits in those books that are advertised for Walleye. Would medium to deep running cranks I use for bass work?  

I recently went on a trip similar to the one you are planning.  My father, brother and I spent Memorial Day weekend on Lake Esnagi, Ontario.  This is a large lake north of Wawa, Ontario and is accessable only by plane.  I had never been walleye/northern pike fishing in Canada so I bought crankbaits, daredevils, steel leaders; the works.  It was a waste of $40.   The only thing you will need to catch walleye, or at least the only thing anyone at our lodge used, is 1/4 ounce jigs with a Mister Twister body and a live minnow hooked through the lips.  We caught over 100 walleye on this rig (all released).  Our guide landed an 8.5 lb. walleye on 4 lb. test line with this combo the week before we arrived.  You just work the jig along the rocks until you feel a slight tug, wait a few seconds for the fish to take the contraption into its mouth and set the hook.  Most of the fish we caught schooled up during the afternoon and started feeding around 5:00 pm.  They were all off of rocky points and in 20-40 ft. of water. As for the pike, we caught a few of them mixed in with the walleye.  The guys at the lodge claim that the smaller pike (24 – 30 in.) travel and feed with the schools of walleye.  The best way to go after the larger fish was to work shallower coves that had plenty of cover (large rocks, fallen timber) with large daredevils in red & white or five of diamonds (yellow with five red diamonds).  The weedbeds hadn’t come in when we were there, but working these areas would be productive also, according to our guide.  The other method people used to catch larger pike was to bait a large hook with smelt or perch (frozen) and use about 6 ft. of line under a bobber.  They would drift past points and in the coves with this rig and wait for the bobber to slowly move under water.  I was told that larger fish "cruise" the coves and points for baitfish and will only take bait.  This paid off for a couple guys, one of them caught a 12 pounder!  I never tried it. Enjoy your trip and good luck.

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I have just accepted an invitation to go to Western Ontario in July to fish for Walleye and Northern Pike in a fly in lake close to Armstrong, Ontario. I have never fished for those fish and would like some first hand advice on the lures that are most productive for these fish. I have several catalogs that have lures for these fish, but I have no idea what colors to use or anything else. Could some of you people in MN or WI give me some advice on what I should bring with me. One other question, I have seen several crankbaits in those books that are advertised for Walleye. Would medium to deep running cranks I use for bass work?   Ray D. Johnson – Texas Eastman Co. B1, Box 7444, Longview TX 75607 UUCP: …{allegra,rutgers}!rochester!kodak!ektools!txtc01!s884896 X.400 ADDRESS:    C=US A=MCI P=KODAK DDA=ID=ECDVM1.L836644

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