Question:

Wondered if anyone had some tips on flying a C172 (or similar) to the Bahamas from FXE (Ft. Laud. Exec.) ?? e.g. best guidebook, rafts needed?, easiest island to fly to, customs procedures, etc. Stimbo Medford, NJ — Posted with Ink Spot (for PocketPC) from DejaVu Software, Inc. Usenet wherever you are – http://www.dejavusoftware.com/

Response:

writes: Wondered if anyone had some tips on flying a C172 (or similar) to the Bahamas from FXE (Ft. Laud. Exec.) ?? e.g. best guidebook, rafts needed?, easiest island to fly to, customs procedures, etc. Stimbo Medford, NJ

Did it last winter in my Archer.  Get the packet from AOPA with all the needed forms and helpful hints.  Have the documents filled out before landing makes it easier and quicker.  Aircraft number (on side) needs to be 12 inches.  Mine are 3 inch so I got blue 2 inch masking tape and put temp numbers on.  Practiced on the washing machine at home.  We had the only 85B  washing machine.<G  You need to call Miami radio at least half hour out and identify yourself before flying into the ADIZ.  I flew in and out of of West Palm.  Cleared at Marsh Harbor in Bahamas.  You need life jackets but do not require life raft(we did not carry one).  Customs was easy at both ends though the US is more involved. With altitude – 8 or 9 thousand – you aren’t away from land for long.  Have fun on the adventure.   Chuck Archer 2185B

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I went in my Glasair II a couple of months ago. Departed Ft. Pierce, they will help with info and docs. I flew into N. Eleuthra and it took about 10 minutes to clear customs. Got a crusing permit and had a ball. Great pilot deals as some hotels in the out islands will discount 20%. Went to Staniel Cay and Pittstown point. At Pittstown Pt. you could see the plane from the room (runway is close by) and the water was about 40 ft from the room. Get "The Bahamas and Caribbean pilots guide", it has everything you need to know about flying and procedures. It can be found on the internet. have fun Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wondered if anyone had some tips on flying a C172 (or similar) to the Bahamas from FXE (Ft. Laud. Exec.) ?? e.g. best guidebook, rafts needed?, easiest island to fly to, customs procedures, etc. Stimbo Medford, NJ — Posted with Ink Spot (for PocketPC) from DejaVu Software, Inc. Usenet wherever you are – http://www.dejavusoftware.com/

Response:

Wondered if anyone had some tips on flying a C172 (or similar) to the Bahamas from FXE (Ft. Laud. Exec.) ?? e.g. best guidebook, rafts needed?, easiest island to fly to, customs procedures, etc.

I used to work as a dispatcher for Executive Jet (now NetJets) and we would have to call Bahamian Customs to let them know we had an aircraft that would be arriving. The typical response from the person on the other end of the line was, "Ya mahn, we be here." Included in REMARKS box of our release form for the pilots was the comment, "Spoke with Inspector Ya Mahn."

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wondered if anyone had some tips on flying a C172 (or similar) to the Bahamas from FXE (Ft. Laud. Exec.) ?? e.g. best guidebook, rafts needed?, easiest island to fly to, customs procedures, etc. I used to work as a dispatcher for Executive Jet (now NetJets) and we would have to call Bahamian Customs to let them know we had an aircraft that would be arriving. The typical response from the person on the other end of the line was, "Ya mahn, we be here." Included in REMARKS box of our release form for the pilots was the comment, "Spoke with Inspector Ya Mahn."

I’ve never flown in the islands, but I’ve sailed them (Bahamas, US & British Virgins, Windwards).  Everything runs on island time down there.   "Ya man, we be here" sounds about right. We pulled some pretty wierd stunts.  On one trip, we were traveling with a Chinese national with no visa and an expired Chinese passport.  About the worse we ever got from the Customs folks was "You know dis is against de rules, mon?  You could get into a lot of trouble, mon.  Enjoy your stay, and please spend lots of money while you be here in our island paradise, mon"

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Enjoy your stay, and please spend lots of money while you be here in our island paradise, mon"

I live in SE florida and some of my pilot friends fly to the Bahamas. Now they charge $15.00 per head just to land. Plus the hassle with customs and FSS. Never saw anything in the Bahamas that I wanted. I spend my money right here in the USA. But to each its own. Hank

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I have been a couple of times.  It can be very interesting and fun.  Last time I went, had an engine failure on takeoff on  return trip.  Not a good place to have mechanical problems.  Long story on replacing engine and getting plane back to U.S. so I won’t bore you with details. My advice, have backup plans for your backup plans but have a great time.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wondered if anyone had some tips on flying a C172 (or similar) to the Bahamas from FXE (Ft. Laud. Exec.) ?? e.g. best guidebook, rafts needed?, easiest island to fly to, customs procedures, etc. Stimbo Medford, NJ — Posted with Ink Spot (for PocketPC) from DejaVu Software, Inc. Usenet wherever you are – http://www.dejavusoftware.com/

Response:

Wondered if anyone had some tips on flying a C172 (or similar) to the Bahamas from FXE (Ft. Laud. Exec.) ??

Haven’t flown to the Bahamas since I moved from FL in 1990, but we would always use Ft. Pierce for customs on the way back. Used to be a lot less crowded than the other So. FL airports of entry, don’t know if that’s still the case. We’d usually plan the initial route from FL to the west side of Grand Bahama, on that route you’re only out of sight of land for about 45 minutes or so. I’d vote for a retractable given an option (if you have to ditch a fixed-gear AC, it’s probably going to flip over when the gear hits the water).  But if you’ve got a healthy engine it doesn’t have a clue whether it’s over water or land (do a mag check before getting too far over water for some added peace of mind, we do that even when flying out to Catalina here in SoCal). e.g. best guidebook, rafts needed?, easiest island to fly to, customs procedures, etc.

I’ll second the recommendation for "The Bahamas and Caribbean Pilots Guide" – It used to be chock-full of useful info, since it’s still in print I’d assume that’s still the case. Have fun! — GregR – Another Beemer Biker …o&o CA/IFR/BGI – KVNY [This space for rent - inquire within]

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I live in SE florida and some of my pilot friends fly to the Bahamas. Now they charge $15.00 per head just to land.

They’ve charged landing fees for years, but you can usually get around them if you’re (ahem…) creative with your "flight crew" (i.e. pilot, co-pilot, second officer, navigator), etc. I can’t remember us ever having to pay a pax charge over there.  :-) Plus the hassle with customs and FSS.

Hassle? Haven’t made the trip post-9/11, so I don’t know what the norm is lately – but it used to be that customs would only ask us to open a bag or two, would sometimes ask for an estimate of how many US-registered planes were on the ramp at our departure airport (I guess to get a gauge as to what their workload was going to be later on), then told us to have a nice day and sent us on our way. I’ve heard horror stories about customs ordering pilots to practically disassemble the plane on the ramp, but for us they were always pleasant and professional. Never saw anything in the Bahamas that I wanted.

You really should get out more often… Great boating, diving, snorkeling, fishing, eating, island-hopping, etc. etc. etc. Just a great place to get away from it all, plus the natives are really friendly. All within an easy couple hours’ flight from the US mainland.  I’d go back tomorrow given the chance. — GregR – Another Beemer Biker …o&o CA/IFR/BGI – KVNY [This space for rent - inquire within]

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We pulled some pretty wierd stunts.  On one trip, we were traveling with a Chinese national with no visa and an expired Chinese passport.  About the worse we ever got from the Customs folks was "You know dis is against de rules, mon?  You could get into a lot of trouble, mon.  Enjoy your stay, and please spend lots of money while you be here in our island paradise, mon"

Sailing into a Bahamas port I was concerned about the water depth and called into an attendant on the dock, "How’s the water depth in there."  The answer came back, "Plenty water mon, just spread thin!" We went in slowly and there was enough. Chuck

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You really should get out more often… Great boating, diving, snorkeling, fishing, eating, island-hopping, etc. etc. etc.

As I stated I live in SE Florida and we have great boating, diving, snorkeling,fishing and eating right here. No need to take my hard earned money over there. Besides I need it to keep my plane in the air. Hank

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You really should get out more often… Great boating, diving, snorkeling, fishing, eating, island-hopping, etc. etc. etc. As I stated I live in SE Florida and we have great boating, diving, snorkeling,fishing and eating right here. No need to take my hard earned money over there. Besides I need it to keep my plane in the air. Hank

And you are packed like sardines in south Florida.  My folks live in Naples in the winter and I have driven thru the gretaer Miami metro area during the high season.  Go 150 mile east and you are virtually alone on a miles long strand of beach.

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And you are packed like sardines in south Florida.  My folks live in Naples in the winter and I have driven thru the gretaer Miami metro area during the high season

You correct, I live 60 miles north of Miami. But the population has increased also. All the folks from up north comming down. Houses used to sell for 80 to 90 K Now they go for 300 and up. Guess the folks up north sell their houses for mor than that and think they are getting a bargain. When I fly west I used to see farms now the are building house next to the everglades, Hank

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And you are packed like sardines in south Florida.  My folks live in Naples in the winter and I have driven thru the gretaer Miami metro area during the high season You correct, I live 60 miles north of Miami. But the population has increased also. All the folks from up north comming down. Houses used to sell for 80 to 90 K Now they go for 300 and up. Guess the folks up north sell their houses for mor than that and think they are getting a bargain. When I fly west I used to see farms now the are building house next to the everglades,

The snowbirds are not selling their houses up north.  You’ll notice Florida gets deserted every April.  They’re all going somewhere.

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smf schrieb: Get "The Bahamas and Caribbean pilots guide", it has everything you need to know about flying and procedures. It can be found on the internet.

To be exact, at http://www.pilotpub.com/id2.html – $49.95 plus shipping. Harald

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Question:

  Amazing how the semi-professional trolls sense an opportunity and jump into   ROFF from time to time.  Even more amazing is how the elitist shitheads like   HWMNBN2 and his alterego, riverman, jump in to attempt to mold responses to   their own view of the world. I think that Riverman’s reports have been some of the best stuff on ROFF in a while. Willi

Response:

Willi, consider the other stuff out available on ROFF lately to campare with.  You haven’t made much of a case.  Riverman does better than HWMNBN2 in the TR department but can’t keep from joining his buddy in the elitist leftwing garbage he spews.  Frankly, riverman doesn’t impress me in either the trip report department or his opinions. I see nothing useful in either. Scott’s TR with the Scouts far outdoes riverman’s disconnected ramblings. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think that Riverman’s reports have been some of the best stuff on ROFF in a while. Willi

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<snip Riverman does better than HWMNBN2 in the TR department but can’t keep from joining his buddy in the elitist leftwing garbage he spews.  Frankly, riverman doesn’t impress me in either the trip report department or his opinions. I see nothing useful in either. Scott’s TR with the Scouts far outdoes riverman’s disconnected ramblings.

I disagree, and found riverman’s "ramblings" to be interesting reading. That doesn’t have to reflect that I agree or disagree with the positions, just that I find it interesting. — TL, Tim

Response:

That spells and it out and confirms what I just wrote.  Look at your taste in everything else! — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I found riverman’s "ramblings" to be interesting reading.  just that I find it interesting. — TL, Tim

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Frankly, riverman doesn’t impress me in either the trip report department or his opinions. I see nothing useful in either.

So quit reading them. Myron’s a good guy and I have enjoyed his reports as well as his company. — Charlie…

Response:

I was fishing yesterday.  Today, I work.  And, tomorrow, and Wednesday, etc. until the weekend.  Then, I fish, again.  It is an easy enough pattern to follow. And yet, yes, I am at my computer today.  Sometimes you get to read some good yarnspin about fishing here that makes the Monday through Friday go a little quicker.  I just don’t see all the need for the bitching and whining. So, if it makes sense, I’ll post what I did this weekend.  I’ll probably get slammed, but at least I won’t be bitchin’.  enjoy. Scott

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Amazing how the semi-professional trolls sense an opportunity and jump into ROFF from time to time.  Even more amazing is how the elitist shitheads like HWMNBN2 and his alterego, riverman, jump in to attempt to mold responses to their own view of the world.  What make it especially sad is their only view comes from something somebody in the liberal press told them to think last week.  Just keep in mind Scott, if you were fishing you wouldn’t be typing away on your computer.  Cool and rainy here today but I would still be in the mountains fishing if I didn’t have museum work to do.  Between armloads of exhibit material coming inside, I just stopped in to see what ROFF was doing today.  Just like a soap opera, same ol’ same ol’. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine! That thread titled ROFF SPLIT UP is a real flamer. Are yall gonna talk or fish? Scott

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I disagree.  I don’t think he is a good guy and I don’t enjoy his reports which is why I don’t read them,  just excerpts when someone references them. Of course, I’ve never considered your taste exemplary either. Choc. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Frankly, riverman doesn’t impress me in either the trip report department or his opinions. I see nothing useful in either. So quit reading them. Myron’s a good guy and I have enjoyed his reports as well as his company. — Charlie…

Response:

That spells and it out and confirms what I just wrote.  Look at your taste in everything else! — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine! I found riverman’s "ramblings" to be interesting reading.  just that I find it interesting.

Hmmm, interesting snipping. By design? — TL, Tim BTW, my taste looks okay to me. Many here would agree.

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Of course, I’ve never considered your taste exemplary either.

Oh well, I suppose I can deal with that. — Charlie…

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi, consider the other stuff out available on ROFF lately to campare with.  You haven’t made much of a case.  Riverman does better than HWMNBN2 in the TR department but can’t keep from joining his buddy in the elitist leftwing garbage he spews.  Frankly, riverman doesn’t impress me in either the trip report department or his opinions. I see nothing useful in either. Scott’s TR with the Scouts far outdoes riverman’s disconnected ramblings. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine! I think that Riverman’s reports have been some of the best stuff on ROFF in a while. Willi

Careful, Wayne–  two different "Scotts" are posting lately.  I assure you, I’m the original, and this is my first post on this thread!! As for leftwing, as opposed to one nifty Bush joke, I think I’ve been pretty even tempered lately. — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

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As for leftwing, as opposed to one nifty Bush joke, I think I’ve been pretty even tempered lately.

Unless you’re referring to my recent use of the word jacknut  I was being somewhat pro-gun there, though so it doesn’t get added to my bleeding heart posts! — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

  Willi, consider the other stuff out available on ROFF lately to campare   with.  You haven’t made much of a case.  Riverman does better than HWMNBN2   in the TR department but can’t keep from joining his buddy in the elitist   leftwing garbage he spews.  Frankly, riverman doesn’t impress me in either   the trip report department or his opinions. I see nothing useful in either.   Scott’s TR with the Scouts far outdoes riverman’s disconnected ramblings. I think you just don’t like him. I found his African reports were VERY interesting. Now we have HWMNBN2? I’ll be dammed (it is a fishing group) if I know who you’re referring to. Willi

Response:

  I disagree.  I don’t think he is a good guy and I don’t enjoy his reports   which is why I don’t read them,  just excerpts when someone references them.   Of course, I’ve never considered your taste exemplary either. Choc. Well, if you don’t read them how in the hell can you comment on them? Willi

Response:

    So quit reading them. Myron’s a good guy and I have enjoyed his reports   as well as his company. Myron!!!!!!! No wonder he goes by riverman. Willi

Response:

Read the parts needed when others comment, particularly when relative to my posts. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   I disagree.  I don’t think he is a good guy and I don’t enjoy his reports   which is why I don’t read them,  just excerpts when someone references them.   Of course, I’ve never considered your taste exemplary either. Choc. Well, if you don’t read them how in the hell can you comment on them? Willi

Response:

No intent to imply you relate to the riverman, HWMNBN2 leftist geoup, Scott. Besides, telling the Scotts apart is sometimes as difficult as telling the Waynes or even the Franks apart! — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Careful, Wayne–  two different "Scotts" are posting lately.  I assure you, I’m the original, and this is my first post on this thread!! As for leftwing, as opposed to one nifty Bush joke, I think I’ve been pretty even tempered lately. — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

Easy one Willi, HWMNBN2 is Wayno’s buddy fortenberry…ooops!  Sorry for mentioning the name and apologies to all the distaff readers for the using such disgusting language! — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Willi, consider the other stuff out available on ROFF lately to campare   with.  You haven’t made much of a case.  Riverman does better than HWMNBN2   in the TR department but can’t keep from joining his buddy in the elitist   leftwing garbage he spews.  Frankly, riverman doesn’t impress me in either   the trip report department or his opinions. I see nothing useful in either.   Scott’s TR with the Scouts far outdoes riverman’s disconnected ramblings. I think you just don’t like him. I found his African reports were VERY interesting. Now we have HWMNBN2? I’ll be dammed (it is a fishing group) if I know who you’re referring to. Willi

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Yeah, i knew you’d be crushed. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Of course, I’ve never considered your taste exemplary either. Oh well, I suppose I can deal with that. — Charlie…

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Easy one Willi, HWMNBN2 is Wayno’s buddy fortenberry…ooops!  Sorry for mentioning the name and apologies to all the distaff readers for the using such disgusting language!

Ouch! Being named AFTER someone that he refers to as "the village idiot" must hurt. Willi

Response:

Blah blah blah

What the hell are you talking about Wayne?  Did you forget to put the foil in your hat this morning? Kevin

Response:

That thread titled ROFF SPLIT UP is a real flamer. Are yall gonna talk or fish? Scott

Response:

Amazing how the semi-professional trolls sense an opportunity and jump into ROFF from time to time.  Even more amazing is how the elitist shitheads like HWMNBN2 and his alterego, riverman, jump in to attempt to mold responses to their own view of the world.  What make it especially sad is their only view comes from something somebody in the liberal press told them to think last week.  Just keep in mind Scott, if you were fishing you wouldn’t be typing away on your computer.  Cool and rainy here today but I would still be in the mountains fishing if I didn’t have museum work to do.  Between armloads of exhibit material coming inside, I just stopped in to see what ROFF was doing today.  Just like a soap opera, same ol’ same ol’. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That thread titled ROFF SPLIT UP is a real flamer. Are yall gonna talk or fish? Scott

Response:

… Are yall gonna talk or fish?

Why yes, yes we are. — Ken Fortenberry- that’s the royal "we" for all the nitpicky nitwits

Response:

Fat Alberts at Cape Lookout N.C.   The hot spot of flyfishing–Sizzling runs into your backing- 10 to 20 Albies  before you are too tired of chasing,or they had busted  enough of your tackle or knucles that you couldN’t get another fly in the water.–Indian Joe replies —– We were on water bu 7AM (early bird gets worm?])  Good boat Regulator 21 rigged for  FF–good guide–rained the day before so we  went outside  IN OPEN OCEAN  to find clear water’. Had to go over Lookout bar  in big waves so got a good salt water shower—chased birds [they look like they found so0mething]  and listened to radios of other guides for FIVE hours  in mild waves until one guy radios -I,v got them they are all over water!!! All boats race farther into the ocean but by time we all arrived the  (fish) had gone down. our guide continued to hunt and we begin to hit small pods of feeding fish.  He put us just about on them and we weakly cast into pods –fish took our flies -ran into backing – then we  reeled them in—sort of like work- but when guide lifted them into boat-we took necessary picture–everyone slapped everyone and said [GOOD FISH] [sort of like bass guys on TV] and we roared off to catch up with another pod. throw fly in water-good fish -slapp etc. I caught a couple on spinning tackle and only differece from fly rod your pole did not bend as much!! As darkness threatened we headed in–after TEN hours in an open boat bouncing around   I handed my guide a check and thought NEXT TIME YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY ME TO GO

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Hiked for an hour uphill to a stream with 6 inch fish I couldn’t keep by law even if I wanted.  Stumbled over rocks and tore a hole in my waders on brush.  Caught 6 skinny fish with no resistance at all on a 3 wt. rod and 6X tippet.  This kind of fishing stinks. Hiked into a so-called trout creek with 30 other guys standing in the water up and down the creek about 30 yards apart.  Everyone fished the water in his immediate vicinity.  Caught nothing but enough rocks to lose my flys on. After a couple of hours of zero catch fishing I slogged back to the car to find a bunch of grouches bitching about exactly the same thing.  This kind of fishing stinks. Walked 30 yards from my car on a flat sand beach only to find a bunch of spin fishermen catching stripers all around the bridge pilings.  Couldn’t get close enough to get a single cast off.  I had to stand out in the dark away from the bridge and flail away for hours in featureless ocean only to catch the occasional Grey trout.  They call them weak fish and their fruitless struggle against a 9 wt. showed them to be aptly named.  Got sand in my gear.  Caught no stripers.  Went home.  This kind of fishing stinks. This fly fishing stuff really sucks and anybody who does it is wasting his time.  Fly fishing really stinks. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fat Alberts at Cape Lookout N.C.   The hot spot of flyfishing–Sizzling runs into your backing- 10 to 20 Albies  before you are too tired of chasing,or they had busted  enough of your tackle or knucles that you couldN’t get another fly in the water.–Indian Joe replies —– We were on water bu 7AM (early bird gets worm?])  Good boat Regulator 21 rigged for  FF–good guide–rained the day before so we  went outside  IN OPEN OCEAN  to find clear water’. Had to go over Lookout bar  in big waves so got a good salt water shower—chased birds [they look like they found so0mething]  and listened to radios of other guides for FIVE hours  in mild waves until one guy radios -I,v got them they are all over water!!! All boats race farther into the ocean but by time we all arrived the  (fish) had gone down. our guide continued to hunt and we begin to hit small pods of feeding fish.  He put us just about on them and we weakly cast into pods –fish took our flies -ran into backing – then we  reeled them in—sort of like work- but when guide lifted them into boat-we took necessary picture–everyone slapped everyone and said [GOOD FISH] [sort of like bass guys on TV] and we roared off to catch up with another pod. throw fly in water-good fish -slapp etc. I caught a couple on spinning tackle and only differece from fly rod your pole did not bend as much!! As darkness threatened we headed in–after TEN hours in an open boat bouncing around   I handed my guide a check and thought NEXT TIME YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY ME TO GO

Response:

Question:

Are there any websites that show step-by-step PICTURES or better yet mpeg movie showing the double haul in action???

http://www.mysportsguru.com/CDA/Article/0,1093,1-1007-1672-2007,00.html is one. — Charlie…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 5)  There are three forward motions that must be in unison for the double haul.         a)  The rod hand that moves forward, toward the front of the ear.                 1) This is the move that removes line slack behind the caster.         b)  The turn over of the wrist.         c)  The haul that occurs DURING the instant the wrist starts to turn over DURING the simultaneous forward thrust of the fist. In other words, the hand comes forward and as you pass your ear, the thumb starts to turn over, driving the bend of the rod farther into the butt at the same instant the haul is applied which drives all the power farther into the butt which collects more power, bending the rod even more. Here is where a micro-second is required to hold onto the fly line and not releasing it just then.  The haul hand comes down and time is allowed in the fly rod to increase the line speed.  As soon as the tip of the fly rod is about forward, the haul hand releases the fly line . . . and you let her fly! HINT:  Keep the tip higher than you normally do for maximum distance. There is more, but this is as simple as I can make it right now.  One demo is worth a thousand words. But!  Let us all remember that fly lines are really weak rubber bands and stretching a fly line out first is paramount so one can make it as tight as possible before you can really increase fly line speed properly. Hope some of this helps, and yes, there is a difference between the single haul and the double haul.

Are there any websites that show step-by-step PICTURES or better yet mpeg movie showing the double haul in action??? Thanks in advance, dave

Response:

I believe you misspelled pathology. Wolfgang

As with your foot in mouth posts?  A Pathobiology fact noted by many Roffians regarding your off subject howlings? hummmm?  Casting is a pathology quirk, eh? guilty. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

______  You’re a hard working man Bill and deserve the best in all things.  Plan on meeting me in Montana this year if you can find a ten day slot.  My last stint at the Mayo Clinic and after hours in the operating room, is a wonderful success.  I’m indeed a fortunate man. Again, Happy New Year Bill. George – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi George and the rest of you wonderful ROFFers out there, I am here in Nor Cal in my old boxer shorts with a cup of coffee. I have to go into the shop this morning after a couple of days off. Had a nice Christmas with the family. I hope you are all feeling strong and healthy. I hope 2001 is a great year for you all. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com I have a break here today, in between Morning Presents and a beautiful turkey with all the fixings soon to be presented to many friends and relatives.  It is clear here today, crisp and bright as geese fly up and down the river looking for fresh graze. From the Book of Gink: AXIOMS 1)  There is only one thing that determines how far anyone can cast.  It is called, "Line Speed."  The greater the line speed the farther one can cast. 2)  Fly lines, like rubber bands, stretch.  As long as this slack remains (WITHIN Fly lines) while fly casting, energy is required to remove it.  That which is required to do so do NOT increase the line speed until the stretch is removed in all fly lines.  The tighter the line, the greater the line speed can be applied into a tightly taunt line. 3)  The greatest power that can be applied to a fly line is in the potential energy stored in the butt section of all fly rods.  Getting to that power is the question.  How do we do that? 4)  Fly rods are also fulcrums.  If one half a fly rod, from the tip to the mid section is bent during the forward cast, any applied power beyond these forward power curves is not unlike a long pole under a big rock with the fulcrum moved CLOSER to the weight.  In this case, the butt section! 5)  There are three forward motions that must be in unison for the double haul. a)  The rod hand that moves forward, toward the front of the ear. 1) This is the move that removes line slack behind the caster. b)  The turn over of the wrist. c)  The haul that occurs DURING the instant the wrist starts to turn over DURING the simultaneous forward thrust of the fist. In other words, the hand comes forward and as you pass your ear, the thumb starts to turn over, driving the bend of the rod farther into the butt at the same instant the haul is applied which drives all the power farther into the butt which collects more power, bending the rod even more. Here is where a micro-second is required to hold onto the fly line and not releasing it just then.  The haul hand comes down and time is allowed in the fly rod to increase the line speed.  As soon as the tip of the fly rod is about forward, the haul hand releases the fly line . . . and you let her fly! HINT:  Keep the tip higher than you normally do for maximum distance. There is more, but this is as simple as I can make it right now.  One demo is worth a thousand words. But!  Let us all remember that fly lines are really weak rubber bands and stretching a fly line out first is paramount so one can make it as tight as possible before you can really increase fly line speed properly. Hope some of this helps, and yes, there is a difference between the single haul and the double haul. Merry Christmas. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

– Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

Steve is a marvelous teacher and instructor.   I can’t count the number of times he would watch me cast at a show and point out some new quirk I had picked up.

Big deal, we’ve been pointing out your quirks – old and new – for years. Not much of a challenge, either…

Response:

I believe you misspelled pathology. Wolfgang always glad to be of service

Response:

Tony, Don’t forget that loop size also determines how far the cast will go. Ernie "Tony Bishop" wrote <snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is only one thing that determines how far anyone can cast, it is called **line acceleration** the rate of change in line speed. Tony Bishop

Response:

Hello, I chanced upon a reference to a scientific paper which might be of interest to those technically inclined: John Robson The Physics of Flycasting American Journal of Physics, 1990 I made a note of it but have not looked for it in a library and read it (yet) so I don’t know if it is relevant to your discussion. Regards, Yuji Sakuma – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George, I pretty much agree with all you said, except the very first point, I rthink it should read: There is only one thing that determines how far anyone can cast, it is called **line acceleration** the rate of change in line speed. Loading the rod, using haul(s), wrist snaps, etc. evrything you and others have listed, all should contribute to increasing line acceleration during the casting stroke. If the line is not accelerating at the end of the casting stroke and when the rod unloads, the line will immediately begin to fall. I find that once a client understands feeling the weight on the backcast, and then adds the little tweaks on the way to the end of the casting stroke, the quicker they learn to maiximise distance and accuracy. Just by the by, I rarely use a double haul, only occasionally using a single haul, and that is when using 9 weights in the big rivers with big flies or heavy nymphs, or in the saltwater. And leaving my modesty behind I can toss out most of a flyline when I have to, without hauling. I go along with Lefty Kreh who said something along the lines of, hauling and such too often teaches someone to cast their mistakes further. — Tony Bishop  New Zealand http://bishfish.co.nz

Response:

There’s other things than line speed that effect distance, such as aerodynamics. e.g.  It’s easy to cast a number 20 GRHE than a bundel of flank feathers.  You also have differences in  changes in Center of Gravity (tight loop vs. open loop) to name a few.  Also the forward and backward motion of the shoulder plays a big part. Lou – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a break here today, in between Morning Presents and a beautiful turkey with all the fixings soon to be presented to many friends and relatives.  It is clear here today, crisp and bright as geese fly up and down the river looking for fresh graze. From the Book of Gink: AXIOMS 1)  There is only one thing that determines how far anyone can cast.  It is called, "Line Speed."  The greater the line speed the farther one can cast. 2)  Fly lines, like rubber bands, stretch.  As long as this slack remains (WITHIN Fly lines) while fly casting, energy is required to remove it.  That which is required to do so do NOT increase the line speed until the stretch is removed in all fly lines.  The tighter the line, the greater the line speed can be applied into a tightly taunt line. 3)  The greatest power that can be applied to a fly line is in the potential energy stored in the butt section of all fly rods.  Getting to that power is the question.  How do we do that? 4)  Fly rods are also fulcrums.  If one half a fly rod, from the tip to the mid section is bent during the forward cast, any applied power beyond these forward power curves is not unlike a long pole under a big rock with the fulcrum moved CLOSER to the weight.  In this case, the butt section! 5)  There are three forward motions that must be in unison for the double haul. a)  The rod hand that moves forward, toward the front of the ear. 1) This is the move that removes line slack behind the caster. b)  The turn over of the wrist. c)  The haul that occurs DURING the instant the wrist starts to turn over DURING the simultaneous forward thrust of the fist. In other words, the hand comes forward and as you pass your ear, the thumb starts to turn over, driving the bend of the rod farther into the butt at the same instant the haul is applied which drives all the power farther into the butt which collects more power, bending the rod even more. Here is where a micro-second is required to hold onto the fly line and not releasing it just then.  The haul hand comes down and time is allowed in the fly rod to increase the line speed.  As soon as the tip of the fly rod is about forward, the haul hand releases the fly line . . . and you let her fly! HINT:  Keep the tip higher than you normally do for maximum distance. There is more, but this is as simple as I can make it right now.  One demo is worth a thousand words. But!  Let us all remember that fly lines are really weak rubber bands and stretching a fly line out first is paramount so one can make it as tight as possible before you can really increase fly line speed properly. Hope some of this helps, and yes, there is a difference between the single haul and the double haul. Merry Christmas. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

Hi George and the rest of you wonderful ROFFers out there, I am here in Nor Cal in my old boxer shorts with a cup of coffee. I have to go into the shop this morning after a couple of days off. Had a nice Christmas with the family. I hope you are all feeling strong and healthy. I hope 2001 is a great year for you all. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a break here today, in between Morning Presents and a beautiful turkey with all the fixings soon to be presented to many friends and relatives.  It is clear here today, crisp and bright as geese fly up and down the river looking for fresh graze. From the Book of Gink: AXIOMS 1)  There is only one thing that determines how far anyone can cast.  It is called, "Line Speed."  The greater the line speed the farther one can cast. 2)  Fly lines, like rubber bands, stretch.  As long as this slack remains (WITHIN Fly lines) while fly casting, energy is required to remove it.  That which is required to do so do NOT increase the line speed until the stretch is removed in all fly lines.  The tighter the line, the greater the line speed can be applied into a tightly taunt line. 3)  The greatest power that can be applied to a fly line is in the potential energy stored in the butt section of all fly rods.  Getting to that power is the question.  How do we do that? 4)  Fly rods are also fulcrums.  If one half a fly rod, from the tip to the mid section is bent during the forward cast, any applied power beyond these forward power curves is not unlike a long pole under a big rock with the fulcrum moved CLOSER to the weight.  In this case, the butt section! 5)  There are three forward motions that must be in unison for the double haul. a)  The rod hand that moves forward, toward the front of the ear. 1) This is the move that removes line slack behind the caster. b)  The turn over of the wrist. c)  The haul that occurs DURING the instant the wrist starts to turn over DURING the simultaneous forward thrust of the fist. In other words, the hand comes forward and as you pass your ear, the thumb starts to turn over, driving the bend of the rod farther into the butt at the same instant the haul is applied which drives all the power farther into the butt which collects more power, bending the rod even more. Here is where a micro-second is required to hold onto the fly line and not releasing it just then.  The haul hand comes down and time is allowed in the fly rod to increase the line speed.  As soon as the tip of the fly rod is about forward, the haul hand releases the fly line . . . and you let her fly! HINT:  Keep the tip higher than you normally do for maximum distance. There is more, but this is as simple as I can make it right now.  One demo is worth a thousand words. But!  Let us all remember that fly lines are really weak rubber bands and stretching a fly line out first is paramount so one can make it as tight as possible before you can really increase fly line speed properly. Hope some of this helps, and yes, there is a difference between the single haul and the double haul. Merry Christmas. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George, I pretty much agree with all you said, except the very first point, I rthink it should read: There is only one thing that determines how far anyone can cast, it is called **line acceleration** the rate of change in line speed. Loading the rod, using haul(s), wrist snaps, etc. evrything you and others have listed, all should contribute to increasing line acceleration during the casting stroke. If the line is not accelerating at the end of the casting stroke and when the rod unloads, the line will immediately begin to fall. I find that once a client understands feeling the weight on the backcast, and then adds the little tweaks on the way to the end of the casting stroke, the quicker they learn to maiximise distance and accuracy. Just by the by, I rarely use a double haul, only occasionally using a single haul, and that is when using 9 weights in the big rivers with big flies or heavy nymphs, or in the saltwater. And leaving my modesty behind I can toss out most of a flyline when I have to, without hauling. I go along with Lefty Kreh who said something along the lines of, hauling and such too often teaches someone to cast their mistakes further. — Tony Bishop  New Zealand http://bishfish.co.nz

that has more casting mistakes than any of them and frankly, shouldn’t be teaching casting until he gets his errors corrected by a master. However; Lefty is very popular but it is no excuse to promote incorrect casting techniques.  I like Lefty, but there is a limit to condoning the public’s jaundiced eye.  Much better teachers are probably everyone else that does so in the industry but the best of the lot, in my opinion is D.Swisher.  Another is E. Schwiebert if and when he is available, but the best in the world is Steve Rajif.  This is the man Kreh all fly casting teachers should see on occasion.  Steve is a marvelous teacher and instructor.  I can’t count the number of times he would watch me cast at a show and point out some new quirk I had picked up. By the way, there is going to be a FLY FISHING SHOW IN DENVER this coming January, on the 6th & 7th.  I plan to be there with a booth.   — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

George, I pretty much agree with all you said, except the very first point, I rthink it should read: There is only one thing that determines how far anyone can cast, it is called **line acceleration** the rate of change in line speed. Loading the rod, using haul(s), wrist snaps, etc. evrything you and others have listed, all should contribute to increasing line acceleration during the casting stroke. If the line is not accelerating at the end of the casting stroke and when the rod unloads, the line will immediately begin to fall. I find that once a client understands feeling the weight on the backcast, and then adds the little tweaks on the way to the end of the casting stroke, the quicker they learn to maiximise distance and accuracy. Just by the by, I rarely use a double haul, only occasionally using a single haul, and that is when using 9 weights in the big rivers with big flies or heavy nymphs, or in the saltwater. And leaving my modesty behind I can toss out most of a flyline when I have to, without hauling. I go along with Lefty Kreh who said something along the lines of, hauling and such too often teaches someone to cast their mistakes further. — Tony Bishop  New Zealand http://bishfish.co.nz

Response:

I have a break here today, in between Morning Presents and a beautiful turkey with all the fixings soon to be presented to many friends and relatives.  It is clear here today, crisp and bright as geese fly up and down the river looking for fresh graze. From the Book of Gink: AXIOMS 1)  There is only one thing that determines how far anyone can cast.  It is called, "Line Speed."  The greater the line speed the farther one can cast. 2)  Fly lines, like rubber bands, stretch.  As long as this slack remains (WITHIN Fly lines) while fly casting, energy is required to remove it.  That which is required to do so do NOT increase the line speed until the stretch is removed in all fly lines.  The tighter the line, the greater the line speed can be applied into a tightly taunt line. 3)  The greatest power that can be applied to a fly line is in the potential energy stored in the butt section of all fly rods.  Getting to that power is the question.  How do we do that? 4)  Fly rods are also fulcrums.  If one half a fly rod, from the tip to the mid section is bent during the forward cast, any applied power beyond these forward power curves is not unlike a long pole under a big rock with the fulcrum moved CLOSER to the weight.  In this case, the butt section! 5)  There are three forward motions that must be in unison for the double haul.         a)  The rod hand that moves forward, toward the front of the ear.                 1) This is the move that removes line slack behind the caster.         b)  The turn over of the wrist.         c)  The haul that occurs DURING the instant the wrist starts to turn over DURING the simultaneous forward thrust of the fist.   In other words, the hand comes forward and as you pass your ear, the thumb starts to turn over, driving the bend of the rod farther into the butt at the same instant the haul is applied which drives all the power farther into the butt which collects more power, bending the rod even more. Here is where a micro-second is required to hold onto the fly line and not releasing it just then.  The haul hand comes down and time is allowed in the fly rod to increase the line speed.  As soon as the tip of the fly rod is about forward, the haul hand releases the fly line . . . and you let her fly! HINT:  Keep the tip higher than you normally do for maximum distance. There is more, but this is as simple as I can make it right now.  One demo is worth a thousand words. But!  Let us all remember that fly lines are really weak rubber bands and stretching a fly line out first is paramount so one can make it as tight as possible before you can really increase fly line speed properly. Hope some of this helps, and yes, there is a difference between the single haul and the double haul. Merry Christmas. — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

Question:

I have followed this newsgroup for quite awhile now and some of you guys that complain the most about spaming always promote your own web site, now what is this??? Is this spaming???  When I post something here or anywhere else I do not put my web address down and I have not told anybody here or any other board that I am selling Bastard Bamboo, St.Croix , GLoomis, Eastbranch rods, Phillipson, Goodwin & Grangers Heddons, Southbends, H&I, Montagues, Orvis, or any other product I sell… When I posted that I really liked the Black Raven I was telling the truth about the rod.. I was really impressed with this rod.. AIt casted real smooth..When I go fly fishing it is adventure for me because I am in a wheelchair and I always have a hand full of rods to fish with and I usually fish with all the rods I take fishing with me, and I have to admit Banboo Flyrods are the funniest to fish with..  Actually I just started flyfishing and I caught my first trout on an Bamboo Flyrod, Whoops it was a Bastard  flyrod maybe this is an ilegal word here, but I really dont care what is an ilegal word..   I am really sorry if I am spaming about my Heddons,Phillipsons,Southbends,ETC..   Come on guys forget the past and lets jsut talk about fishing and if that Word Bastard come up just let it go, because a Bastard can catch fish just like an Orvis rod can catch fish..  Come on Guys lets just caych some fish on your favorite rod and your favorite fly…   Later dave

Response:

        (blah blah blah)  Come on Guys lets just caych some fish on your favorite rod and your favorite fly…   Later dave

        dave, just go mix another drink, and forget about it.         wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

[snipped] Dave, it’s been explained to you already, but once more for emphasis: you’d never been seen here before, and suddenly a post from out of nowhere appears, overflowing with ebullient praise for a rod built by someone that had thoroughly worn out his welcome here. And adding the bit about "buying ten of them" was like waving a red flag in the face of many folks here. Thus the reaction. But it appears that those same folks might owe you an apology… [el snippo] I have to admit Banboo Flyrods are the funniest to fish with..

LOL! Welll…..No comment ;^) Stick around, Dave. /daytripper

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I wish that people in this newsgroup would keep their political spaming somewhere else. Thank You

Response:

I wish that people in this newsgroup would keep their political spaming somewhere else. Thank You

Phooey. It’s an election year, politics is on our minds and we speak our minds. (Those of us that actually HAVE minds, anyway.:-) Tell that large, hairy, mustachioed man wearing the fishnet stockings and high heels who forces you to read political posts to put down the cat-o’-nine-tails and get back to work on the heirheads debate strategy. (Unless you really like that sort of thing.) — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I wish that people in this newsgroup would keep their political spaming somewhere else.

I wish I was young, rich and attractive. Thank *you*. — Charlie…

Response:

I wish that people in this newsgroup would keep their political spaming somewhere else. Thank You

Yeah, wish in one hand and shit in the other.  Let us know which one fills up faster. Wolfgang Director, ROFF Office of Research

Response:

I wish that people in this newsgroup would keep their political spaming somewhere else. Thank You

I wish people would quit reading what they don’t want to, so there you go…  I think we are about equal in our chances of getting our wishes. HTH? You’re Welcome R (who knows Slim just stole None’s horse, and is border-bound…)

Response:

I like your new word, spaming. Maybe spame is a good name for off topic posts! Personnally, I’ve been very pleased that recently people have put "off topic" posts under appropriate headers.  They are very easy to ignore if you’re not interested. What bothers me is when you click on a fishing related subject line and you get garbage. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wish that people in this newsgroup would keep their political spaming somewhere else. Thank You

Response:

Yeah, wish in one hand and shit in the other.  Let us know which one fills up faster.

My grandma always said wish in one hand, shit in the other… and see which weighs more. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

Response:

I wish people would stop wishing, as it is very difficult to prove whether one’s wish actually came to fruition or not! — Opie  –I *hope* this doesn’t piss the wrong people off– – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I like your new word, spaming. Maybe spame is a good name for off topic posts! Personnally, I’ve been very pleased that recently people have put "off topic" posts under appropriate headers.  They are very easy to ignore if you’re not interested. What bothers me is when you click on a fishing related subject line and you get garbage. Willi I wish that people in this newsgroup would keep their political spaming somewhere else. Thank You

Response:

I wish people would stop wishing, as it is very difficult to prove whether one’s wish actually came to fruition or not!

I can tell you I keep closing my eyes and clicking my heels but somehow I keep getting stuck in Kansas. — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

Response:

I can tell you I keep closing my eyes and clicking my heels but somehow I keep getting stuck in Kansas.

Ah, that’s the problem: that only works to get you back *to* Kansas, you need a tornado to get you out<g. — Charlie…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wish that people in this newsgroup would keep their political spaming somewhere else. Thank You Phooey. It’s an election year, politics is on our minds and we speak our minds. (Those of us that actually HAVE minds, anyway.:-) Tell that large, hairy, mustachioed man wearing the fishnet stockings and high heels who forces you to read political posts to put down the cat-o’-nine-tails and get back to work on the heirheads debate strategy. (Unless you really like that sort of thing.)

When did Louie grow a mustache? /daytripper (OK, now I gotta run and hide. Buh byeeeeeee! ;^)

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R wrote snip::I wish people would quit reading what they don’t want to, so there you go…

The only way to get the damn thing to go away is to hit read msg. Big Dale

Response:

It is about fishing.  If big oil get’s their empty suit in the White House look forward to clear cuts,  cynaide leach mines,  oil spills in ANWF and all imaginable kinds of hell loosed upon the earth.  The forces of greed want your fishing hole. BJC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wish that people in this newsgroup would keep their political spaming somewhere else. Thank You

Response:

Yeah, wish in one hand and shit in the other.  Let us know which one fills up faster. My grandma always said wish in one hand, shit in the other… and see which weighs more.

My kinda grandma!  Never got to know any of my own.  Can I borrow yours some time? Wolfgang over the river and through the woods

Response:

I wish that people in this newsgroup would keep their political spaming somewhere else.

I wish I had a better benefits package, a bigger apartment, three redheaded Tri-Delt mistresses, and a beer. We all got needs, pal. You’re welcome. "My father said to be strong, that a good man could never do wrong  in a dream I had last night in America" -Los Lobos

Response:

Why, do they not make Tri-Delts anymore, or was there only one window in time when they were universally considered desirable?  I know in my undergraduate days (69-73) they were thought (and I believe thought themselves) hotter than heat. Me, I never saw it:  preferred hippy girls in peasant shirts and jeans. BTW, are we allowed to talk about women here, or only politics? JR — To reply, remove the Qs from the address above – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     "Tri-Delts" gives your approximate age away. [an assumption, but held until informed.] (MC’s comment snipped for space) I wish I had a better benefits package, a bigger apartment, three redheaded Tri-Delt mistresses, and a beer. We all got needs, pal.

Response:

     I don’t know, it seems odd to be fixated on redheads, but even more outr

Question:

Hello all; Looking for recommendations for a good smallmouth streams in the King of Prussia, Pennsylvania area.  I will be in the Hatboro/Philadelphia area on business Thursday and plan on a little fly fishing Thursday night and Friday.  I will be wading.  Thanks in advance for your suggestions. Joe

Response:

A decent smallie area is the Perkiomen watershed park at routes 73 and 29 just outside of Collegeville (its in Schwenksville to be technical). Another area is the Evansburg park area on Germantown Pike. I can give you better directions if either sound appealing. Ron

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all; Looking for recommendations for a good smallmouth streams in the King of Prussia, Pennsylvania area.  I will be in the Hatboro/Philadelphia area on business Thursday and plan on a little fly fishing Thursday night and Friday.  I will be wading.  Thanks in advance for your suggestions. Joe

Response:

Question:

I agree…I’ll never forget …I sent a friends brother a joke and of course the header contained all the addresses and names of other friends….this guy ’s brother sent everyone of them ads for his vitamins etc….I was very up[set that this guy would take advantage.. But people will do anything for a buck and fly fishing is no exception!

Response:

rummy,                                                                                  I think they all do it everywhere!It ain’t just here!From   Mr. G to me. (don’t confuse us though)Whether it’s proper or not I’m not sure !Oh by the way if your planning a trip to the Smokies I live here & I’m a guide & fltyer who specializes in southern appalachian patterns if you need any contact me at

Response:

What’s your point! Wayne to fish is human…to release divine (junk snipped)  comments on the above would be very interesting. Tom Montauk Point

Response:

Anybody notice how many more ads are appearing on this site in the guise of good ol boy conversation. Everything from folksy advise and down home humor from tackle store owners who just happen to include their address and phone number to a guy trying to push his fly line and wax as a gesture of frienship to us all.   No matter how you cut it, they are commercial solicitations for business.   Is this what we want?  Is this the future of this site?  If this is what the majority wants its fine with me but it is a sure bet if this type of folksy ill-disguised  hustling continues unabated, it will eventually take over. comments on the above would be very interesting. Tom Montauk Point

Hi Tom:         Two of the people that I have the most respect for, on this group, are Bill Kiene and Al Beatty. Al’s been gone mostly since taking a job with Hoffman Hackle and that was our loss, especially in the area of tying techniques. Bill’s been a great source of info regarding product and destinations. I’ve never seen a post from either of them that they didn’t offer some valuable information often to questions that they’ve answered many times over the last few years.         Tag lines can also give some basis for credability in an uncontrolled medium that has more than it’s share of poor information. Bill knows what product passes through his store and how satisfied his clients are with that product. In a retail position he also handles and uses a lot more stuff than most of us are familiar with or will use in several years. When someone asks about travel destinations or lodges he can offer some good objective information as someone that’s been to a number of different places, rather than a guy that made one trip several years ago. The guy that went to Mexico once can offer some helpful info based on his trip but the guy I really want to hear from is the one who has been there at several different times, seasons and locations. He’s got the experience to compare one place or time from another.         I’ve been guiding in Southwest Alaska for several years and lived on the Kenai Peninsula prior to that. I generally restrict my responses to guestions of those areas,and when I do respond I’ll usually include the name of the lodge where I work.         I’ve been on this group since 93 and I post very little and read perhaps 10% of the threads here each day. I lost my interest a long time ago in answering another thread on the best way to tie on a dropper or how to cast with lead. I do however have a lot of respect for guys like Bill and Al that have offered  a lot of very good and objective information over the years and I’ve never seen them hyping themselves or their products. Jim McGrath

Response:

amazingly witty words: Anybody notice how many more ads are appearing on this site in the guise of good ol boy conversation. Everything from folksy advise and down home humor from tackle store owners who just happen to include their address and phone number to a guy trying to push his fly line and wax as a gesture of frienship to us all.   No matter how you cut it, they are commercial solicitations for business.   Is this what we want?  Is this the future of this site?  If this is what the majority wants its fine with me but it is a sure bet if this type of folksy ill-disguised  hustling continues unabated, it will eventually take over. comments on the above would be very interesting. Tom Montauk Point

I feel there are two types of advertising.  On the one side there is the advertising that is actually benifitial to the consumer (and I don’t mean by the product being advertised).  For example, television commercials pay for the programing seen on the t.v., banners on websites allow for certain websites to remain open, etc.   Then there is the unacceptable (in my opinion) advertising.  For example, junk mail (I hate it), road side billboards (I hate ‘em even more), and spam (I REALLY hate this!).  This type of advertising does not provide the consumer with anything in return for the advertising. Now I bring up the point I want to make, Mr. G.  Where does he fall in these catagories?  Well, I feel that he (other than the accidental mass mailing) falls within the former.  He advertises in this group but, he also contributes more than probably 75% of the people that read ROFF.  Personally, I don’t like the advertising (I hate almost every form of it) but I feel that since Mr. G contributes so much to this group, he has earned the right to advertise (if you don’t like it, don’t read his posts). Brian (the slightly drunk and pondering) Hailey

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 ….    Two of the people that I have the most respect for, on this group, are Bill Kiene and Al Beatty. Al’s been gone mostly since taking a job with Hoffman Hackle and that was our loss, especially in the area of tying techniques. Bill’s been a great source of info regarding product and destinations. …..

I talked to Al last night at the San Meteo Show and yes he is up to his neck in Hoffman feathers. He doesn’t read hear much or for that matter even post. He said he could be reached at the boards at the flyhop.com, mainly because he is the main judge of all the tying contests that Hoffman sponsors. — Doug Knight                                     metalfab<atpacbell.net Junk e-mail, solicitation, sales, products and services gladly accepted at $500.00 per mailing and billed directly to your ISP.

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Very good point. The question is what can we do about it? It’s fine and dandy foe someone to advertize a personal sale of a rod, reel or other item he has no use for, but to push their commercial goods on this newsgroup is really cheap! Advertise in one or all of the many publications available. I’m sure more sales will come of that and less flyfishers will be offended. We need this space to share, inquire and discuss our hobby & sport. I don’t have the time or inclination to navigate through so much spam to find an interestig message. Get off our turf! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody notice how many more ads are appearing on this site in the guise of good ol boy conversation. Everything from folksy advise and down home humor from tackle store owners who just happen to include their address and phone number to a guy trying to push his fly line and wax as a gesture of frienship to us all.   No matter how you cut it, they are commercial solicitations for business.   Is this what we want?  Is this the future of this site?  If this is what the majority wants its fine with me but it is a sure bet if this type of folksy ill-disguised  hustling continues unabated, it will eventually take over. comments on the above would be very interesting. Tom Montauk Point

Response:

Tom your right that this is an interesting issue. I’d be interested to hear what other think as well. There is no question that get rich quick and send money message (or those promoting sex sites) are not appropriate for this board but what about those message that are related to fly fishing. I mean this is a fly fishing board and posts whether promoting a fly fishing product or a fly fishing site I think should be allowed and welcomed as this is related to the topic of the newsgroup right? Much like a fly fishing magazine you have great articles editorials, heck in resources like events listed and among all those great articles and resource you have ad related to the topic of the magazine promoting products and services related to fly fishing. It would be one thing to have someone post everyday saying the same thing its another thing when someone posts once a week or twice a month about something related to fly fishing that others might enjoy right? How does everyone feel about this. I’m very interested in others views as this has become a continuing problems for business owners, site owners, and newsgroup viewers as well as the general public related to spam message and unsolicited email and such. Thanks for bring this up Tom it was a good idea to get everyone talking about this. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody notice how many more ads are appearing on this site in the guise of good ol boy conversation. Everything from folksy advise and down home humor from tackle store owners who just happen to include their address and phone number to a guy trying to push his fly line and wax as a gesture of frienship to us all.   No matter how you cut it, they are commercial solicitations for business.   Is this what we want?  Is this the future of this site?  If this is what the majority wants its fine with me but it is a sure bet if this type of folksy ill-disguised  hustling continues unabated, it will eventually take over.  comments on the above would be very interesting. Tom Montauk Point

Response:

Anybody notice how many more ads are appearing on this site in the guise of good ol boy conversation. Everything from folksy advise and down home humor from tackle store owners who just happen to include their address and phone number to a guy trying to push his fly line and wax as a gesture of frienship to us all.

Yeah, I know how you feel. It used to bum me out too until I downloaded SpamOff!  (the usenet nntp filtering software that removes spam on the fly) from http://www.spamoff.com !   No matter how you cut it, they are commercial solicitations for business.   Is this what we want?  Is this the future of this site?  

It’s not what I want! In fact I think it’s high time we took charge of this situation.  A good first step is probably downloading SpamOff! from http://www.spamoff.com Maybe if none of us read their stupid ads they’ll go away! If this is what the majority wants its fine with me but it is a sure bet if this type of folksy ill-disguised  hustling continues unabated, it will eventually take over.

Sometimes I feel like it already has! Or I used to, anyway, in the pre-SpamOff! days. The days before some kind soul pointed me toward http://www.spamoff.com where I found the usenet nntp filtering software that removes spam on the fly.  comments on the above would be very interesting.

Actually there might be some more comments on one of my favorite WWW discussion forums, http://www.spamoff.com, there’s a message board on these types of issues on that site. (PS: While you’re there you might want to download a FREE demo version of SpamOff! It’s the usenet nntp filtering software that removes spam on the fly!)

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Anybody notice how many more ads are appearing on this site in the guise of good ol boy conversation. Everything from folksy advise and down home humor from tackle store owners who just happen to include their address and phone number to a guy trying to push his fly line and wax as a gesture of frienship to us all. Yeah, I know how you feel. It used to bum me out too until I downloaded SpamOff!  (the usenet nntp filtering software that removes spam on the fly) from http://www.spamoff.com !

Is this a spam for SpamOff? BTW, I couldn’t find a DNS entry for that URL. Maybe their server is down, or maybe they no longer exist.

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Yeah, I know how you feel. It used to bum me out too until I downloaded SpamOff!  (the usenet nntp filtering software that removes spam on the fly) from http://www.spamoff.com ! Is this a spam for SpamOff? BTW, I couldn’t find a DNS entry for that URL. Maybe their server is down, or maybe they no longer exist.

It was a joke…or at least that’s what I took it to be. Cute though.      - Ken — "Time is but the stream I go a-fishin in. I drink at it, but while I drink I see the sandy bottom and detect how shallow it is. It’s thin current slides away, but eternity remains."     – H.D. Thoreau

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        Two of the people that I have the most respect for, on this group, are Bill Kiene and Al Beatty. Al’s been gone mostly since taking a job with Hoffman Hackle and that was our loss, especially in the area of tying techniques. Bill’s been a great source of info regarding product and destinations. I’ve never seen a post from either of them that they didn’t offer some valuable information often to questions that they’ve answered many times over the last few years.

snip Jim – I agree completely.  Has the sun returned yet up there? mark Faulkner

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Smokey,     I come down to the smokey’s 3 or 4 times a year (sometimes I fish the motor trail on the north end of the park) Maybe we can hook up a time or two this year if the price is right ! Good Luck David – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – rummy,          I think they all do it everywhere!It ain’t just here!From   Mr. G to me. (don’t confuse us though)Whether it’s proper or not I’m not sure !Oh by the way if your planning a trip to the Smokies I live here & I’m a guide & fltyer who specializes in southern appalachian patterns if you need any contact me at

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(the usenet nntp filtering software that removes spam on the fly) from http://www.spamoff.com !

If you have spam on the fly, wouldn’t that be considered bait fishing?? Inquiring minds want to know. George Adams

Response:

Anybody notice how many more ads are appearing on this site in the guise of good ol boy conversation. Everything from folksy advise and down home humor from tackle store owners who just happen to include their address and phone number to a guy trying to push his fly line and wax as a gesture of frienship to us all.   No matter how you cut it, they are commercial solicitations for business.   Is this what we want?  Is this the future of this site?  If this is what the majority wants its fine with me but it is a sure bet if this type of folksy ill-disguised  hustling continues unabated, it will eventually take over.  comments on the above would be very interesting. Tom Montauk Point

Response:

Question:

<<A number of well-written soliloquies.  Could you not excise the few items that belong in a separate category, due to the unfortunate occurences of offennsive language?    Those gutter language quotes could have easily been excised. In fact, it took effort to include them.    They weren’t excluded and their presence show us something of the internal contradictions within Cubic Dog. -Ray

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Like I said, I like it.  Shows you something about the internal contradiction in the Moth. Those gutter language quotes could have easily been excised. In fact, it took effort to include them   They weren’t excluded and their presence show us something of the internal contradictions within Cubic Dog.

- Mothra  (aka Kathy Streletzky)    "Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote                                   The droughte of March hath perced to the roote, . . . Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages."  - Geoffrey Chaucer

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<<A number of well-written soliloquies.  Could you not excise the few items that belong in a separate category, due to the unfortunate occurences of offennsive language?    Those gutter language quotes could have easily been excised. In fact, it took effort to include them.    They weren’t excluded and their presence show us something of the internal contradictions within Cubic Dog. -Ray

Well, this may have something to it, Then again, I think their presence also may intend to show something of the *external* contratictions and conflicts within the sport, in fact, I think that was the point. chipper

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I find your post(and Ray’s) much more offensive than the original poetry that was originally posted. Too bad the both of you are so uptight so as not to see the real meanings behind those words.                    shallow is the depth of some souls                    the hull is inevitibly worn thin                    from years of misuse                                                                       William Davis

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<<I find your post(and Ray’s) much more offensive than the original poetry that was originally posted. Too bad the both of you are so uptight so as not to see the real meanings behind those words.    theknuckle   Badbilly – how many handles do you have in this newsgroup? -Ray

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Badbilly – how many handles do you have in this newsgroup?

Evidently one for each of his personalities:-) I like theKnuckle the best!  How bout you? – Mothra  (aka Kathy Streletzky)    "Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote                                   The droughte of March hath perced to the roote, . . . Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages."  - Geoffrey Chaucer

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The cold monk burns the image of the buddah, reads about the sacred cows and murmors — oh shit it sure is cold.

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Well, little moth girl, "the knuckle" is a type of motor that was made by harley-davidson motorcycles from 1932 to 1947. It is a highly coveted motorcycle. I do have multiple personalities, unlike a lot of people on r.p.b. Work…paddle….work…paddle. I know…some of you are saying, "well, what else is there to do?" The answer is…Plenty! I many past times that I enjoy. From skateboarding, flyfishing, playing nine ball(billiards), and riding and building harley-davidson motorcycles, not to mention scads of other things. enthusiasts. But surely you must know that I always put RPB in my "favorite places" folder so that I can check on all you paddlepeople whenever I want. So, now you know. Paddler…Biker….Fisherman…Pool Shark…Thrillseeker…Bad Billy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Badbilly – how many handles do you have in this newsgroup? Evidently one for each of his personalities:-) I like theKnuckle the best!  How bout you? – Mothra  (aka Kathy Streletzky)   "Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote                                   The droughte of March hath perced to the roote, . . . Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages."  - Geoffrey Chaucer </PRE</HTML

Response:

A number of well-written soliloquies.  Could you not excise the few items that belong in a separate category, due to the unfortunate occurences of offennsive language?

I don’t think so, Robin, re-read it – the "offensive" sections are part of a whole.  Nice-writing, Cubic Dog. – Mothra  (aka Kathy Streletzky)    "Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote                                   The droughte of March hath perced to the roote, . . . Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages."  - Geoffrey Chaucer

Response:

A number of well-written soliloquies.  Could you not excise the few items that belong in a separate category, due to the unfortunate occurences of offennsive language?

Response:

I like it! shimmering the warriors small boat vanishes on the eddy line his soul intact

- Mothra  (aka Kathy Streletzky)    "Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote                                   The droughte of March hath perced to the roote, . . . Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages."  - Geoffrey Chaucer

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"Fool!" "The Paddle is the soul,

snip… Very Nice…

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"Rules and laws are always the result of loss of respect and courtesy and are themselves therefore the seeds of failure see to your soul first if you seek mastery"

Well Said Brother

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Awesome poetic commentary!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Fool!" "The Paddle is the soul, see to your soul first or there will be no mastery." The warrior smiles as his children play. These new ones come, I had seen their forebearers come to the crags when I was young, We the clueless clutched and groped our way skyward, tenous pro, lead out on clean placements. They with white scars of chalk showing all the moves, drove bolts and clipped in, stretching out the ladders to touch the heart of fear, climbed glass while we spat on the ground in disgust. They breezed our standards and buried the soul. He had an old land rover, and we pulled the grill off and brought it with us to throw it over the fire to grill some steaks we bought in town the other day. Our canoes were safely ashore high above the water and tied off just in case. It was raining. "Kore wa burauni desu. Chairo no chyokoreeto no keeki desu. Doozo." I took the offered brownie cake, it tasted strongly of herbs. The warrior told me of important things, sex, death, flyfishing, , I watched the stars melt. Years passed and quiet bass fishermen with stealthy trolling motors drift jerkbaits through the camp. The dam is a success. Ten thousand years ago, the warrior walked away from the field at the end of the day his hide intact, only by the grace of God. His seed sees the whole world No field, no lance thrust to parry we pierce ourselves No spoils no freedom dashed at the slavers block we forge our own chains No tribe no belonging ritual to earn we ink and needle our limbs "Fuck You, Bitch" we say in conversation, without meaning or feeling or care The warrior muses on the antinym of competition "Rules and laws are always the result of loss of respect and courtesy and are themselves therefore the seeds of failure see to your soul first if you seek mastery" Fuck you! I can throw ends till you puke watching me I got the flatspin down and I can kick yer butt at rodeo class IV? you call that class IV? I fell asleep That creek roks, I kicked its ass though shimmering the warriors small boat vanishes on the eddy line his soul intact the mystery is fun :wq

The best post to this group in days!

Response:

"Fool!" "The Paddle is the soul, see to your soul first or there will be no mastery." The warrior smiles as his children play. These new ones come, I had seen their forebearers come to the crags when I was young, We the clueless clutched and groped our way skyward, tenous pro, lead out on clean placements. They with white scars of chalk showing all the moves, drove bolts and clipped in, stretching out the ladders to touch the heart of fear, climbed glass while we spat on the ground in disgust. They breezed our standards and buried the soul. He had an old land rover, and we pulled the grill off and brought it with us to throw it over the fire to grill some steaks we bought in town the other day. Our canoes were safely ashore high above the water and tied off just in case. It was raining. "Kore wa burauni desu. Chairo no chyokoreeto no keeki desu. Doozo." I took the offered brownie cake, it tasted strongly of herbs. The warrior told me of important things, sex, death, flyfishing, , I watched the stars melt. Years passed and quiet bass fishermen with stealthy trolling motors drift jerkbaits through the camp. The dam is a success. Ten thousand years ago, the warrior walked away from the field at the end of the day his hide intact, only by the grace of God. His seed sees the whole world No field, no lance thrust to parry we pierce ourselves No spoils no freedom dashed at the slavers block we forge our own chains No tribe no belonging ritual to earn we ink and needle our limbs "Fuck You, Bitch" we say in conversation, without meaning or feeling or care The warrior muses on the antinym of competition "Rules and laws are always the result of loss of respect and courtesy and are themselves therefore the seeds of failure see to your soul first if you seek mastery" Fuck you! I can throw ends till you puke watching me I got the flatspin down and I can kick yer butt at rodeo class IV? you call that class IV? I fell asleep That creek roks, I kicked its ass though shimmering the warriors small boat vanishes on the eddy line his soul intact the mystery is fun :wq

Response:

Question:

I’ll be travelling to Atlanta and I was wondering if I should carry my FF equipment with me. Any help? If yes, I’d apreciatte any info about places, access, equipments recommended any other suggestion. Thanks a lot, Pablo. BS.AS-Argentina

Response:

I’ll be travelling to Atlanta and I was wondering if I should carry my FF equipment with me.

Yes If yes, I’d apreciatte any info about places, access, equipments recommended any other suggestion.

Email me with what you’re interested in and I’ll try and help. You have your choice of wild or stocked, large tailwaters or small freestones, trout or bass…etc Wayne Knight Geneva IL                            

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Question:

I fish almost daily in the lake in front of my house on a golf course using a fly rod with poppers.  I get hit often but my success rate in landing them is a joke.  It seems most often that the popper gets rolled on and disappears under water.  When I try to set the hook, I pull it out of the fish’s mouth or I hook it for a while only to lose the fish before landing it.  I have good success fishing with plastics or spinner baits using my baitcasting set up, but terrible results with the poppers.  I’ve tried waiting longer before setting the hook, setting it up, sideways, slower, harder … nothing seems to help.  I am using a barbless hook which I hand sharpen.  Any suggestions. Thanks ahead of time.

Response:

The trouble might be the poppers you are using. Check and see how much

clearance you’ve got between the point of the hook and the underside ofthe popper.   Many poppers I’ve found sacrifice a bigger gap here, better a better "look", meaning more flashabou, rubber legs, hackle to form a skirt, etc.  When I tie my own or buy one, either hardbodied or deerhair, I’ll use a razor to trim as much hair or plastic or cork off the bottom at the back of the poppers body as I can and still have a good solid body, or I’ll use some needlenose pliers to bend the hook back a little to widen the gap. I’ve found this increases my hook-ups a lot. This wasn’t my idea, I got it from reading about flyfishing from lots of different folks. Bill C. "Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

Response:

I fish almost daily in the lake in front of my house on a golf course using a fly rod with poppers.  I get hit often but my success rate in landing them is a joke.  It seems most often that the popper gets rolled on and disappears under water.  When I try to set the hook, I pull it out of the fish’s mouth or I hook it for a while only to lose the fish before landing it.  I have good success fishing with plastics or spinner baits using my baitcasting set up, but terrible results with the poppers.  I’ve tried waiting longer before setting the hook, setting it up, sideways, slower, harder … nothing seems to help.  I am using a barbless hook which I hand sharpen.  Any suggestions. Good luck Thanks ahead of time.

With a fly rod on bass the gape of the hook is important, as pointed out in another post. Main thing to remember is to set the hook as hard as you can. You must use a 7 or 8 weight if you are really going to set without problems. I use lighter tackle because its fun–a 5 wweight and have caught lots of 3 lb bass with it. also occasionaly larger ones. For the 5 i dont use the rod to hook-I use my left hand with the line . Its a better way as you get used to it and gives more power as you strike without endangering the rod.                  Angleral

Response:

   It uses the GUARDHOOK – -an amazing new fishhook that acts like a pincher crab to prevent fish from throwing it.  It is a long shank Mustad with a built in weed guard.  Now you won’t believe all of its features.  It is totally all-terrain.  It never gets snagged in weeds or brush.  I have even tested them on land tossing them into brushpiles.  They have the North American Fisherman Clubs seal of approval.  100 out of 100 field testers said they would never fish without them.  The GUARDPOP is just one of many of my new all-terrain lures. You can buy a GUARDPOP (popper) from me or just buy GUARDHOOKS for your poppers.  The Guardhooks come in many sizes – a new size 6 is just now available.  They are doublehooks so they are quickchange hooks.  And they Lock out for Safe storage just like a safety pin cause the spring weed guard can be sprung over the hook tip.  I fish them barbless too by pinching down the barb so they are safer for you and safer for the fish. Ted Rydell-  see at www.foxynet.com/guardhook – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I fish almost daily in the lake in front of my house on a golf course using a fly rod with poppers.  I get hit often but my success rate in landing them is a joke.  It seems most often that the popper gets rolled on and disappears under water.  When I try to set the hook, I pull it out of the fish’s mouth or I hook it for a while only to lose the fish before landing it.  I have good success fishing with plastics or spinner baits using my baitcasting set up, but terrible results with the poppers.  I’ve tried waiting longer before setting the hook, setting it up, sideways, slower, harder … nothing seems to help.  I am using a barbless hook which I hand sharpen.  Any suggestions. Good luck Thanks ahead of time. With a fly rod on bass the gape of the hook is important, as pointed out in another post. Main thing to remember is to set the hook as hard as you can. You must use a 7 or 8 weight if you are really going to set without problems. I use lighter tackle because its fun–a 5 wweight and have caught lots of 3 lb bass with it. also occasionaly larger ones. For the 5 i dont use the rod to hook-I use my left hand with the line . Its a better way as you get used to it and gives more power as you strike without endangering the rod.                  Angleral

Response:

Question:

Does anyone out there know of any tide charts for the Boca Paila- Ascension Bay-Espiritu Santo Bay area?  Any idea what the correction factors are for the backcountry areas when you try to use a standard tide chart/program?  Any other useful info would be appreciated too. Please send private e-mail to: Thanks Jeff

Response:

Jeff, if you will email me, I will send you the web address of an NOAA site that gives current water temperatures, sea height, wind, etc from bouys in Port Aransas and offshore in the Gulf. To date, I have not found a tide web site, but this comes close and is useful. I just don’t have the address on me at the moment.

Response:

Could you please send me the address of the Yucatan Tide Charts. Just back from Ascension Bay and am returning next year. Thanks. Jack

Response:

Does anyone out there know of any tide charts for the Boca Paila- Ascension Bay-Espiritu Santo Bay area?  Any idea what the correction factors are for the backcountry areas when you try to use a standard tide chart/program?  Any other useful info would be appreciated too. Please send private e-mail to: Thanks Jeff

Jeff, I would call Frontier Travel, 800/245-1950 and ask for Bill Gering.  They are the booking agent for Boca Paila Lodge and Casa Blanca Lodge ( Ascension Bay ) and Bill is their expert on the Yucatan area. I spent nine days in November this last fall and fished the whole area through different four lodges.  If you need any fishing info you can call us at 800/4000FLY. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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