Question:

I am not certain when the next clave is and where it is, but I wanted to offer the extra flies (I have about 4 to 5 good sets of 30 flies I could put together in fly boxes) from this last Fly Swap as raffle prizes, if you guys think that would be OK? —— Padishar Creel

Response:

An excellent and generous idea Chris. I am sure it will meet with general approval. Thanks once again for organising and running the swap. Hope you have an excellent Christmas as well. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am not certain when the next clave is and where it is, but I wanted to offer the extra flies (I have about 4 to 5 good sets of 30 flies I could put together in fly boxes) from this last Fly Swap as raffle prizes, if you guys think that would be OK? —— Padishar Creel

Response:

I am not certain when the next clave is and where it is, but I wanted to offer the extra flies (I have about 4 to 5 good sets of 30 flies I could put together in fly boxes) from this last Fly Swap as raffle prizes, if you guys think that would be OK?

Pretty much guarantees ol’ Indian Joe will show up…

Response:

Padishar, I believe the next clave is the Michigan Micro-Clave at the end of April….I believe Wolfgang is the clavemiester. Luckyboy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am not certain when the next clave is and where it is, but I wanted to offer the extra flies (I have about 4 to 5 good sets of 30 flies I could put together in fly boxes) from this last Fly Swap as raffle prizes, if you guys think that would be OK? Pretty much guarantees ol’ Indian Joe will show up…

Response:

Padishar, I believe the next clave is the Michigan Micro-Clave at the end of April….I believe Wolfgang is the clavemiester.

That would be the "landlocked rainbow trout" clave, right? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Padishar, I believe the next clave is the Michigan Micro-Clave at the end of April….I believe Wolfgang is the clavemiester.

Technically true, but I fear the additional weight of 150 or so flies might prove burdensome to the three intrepid backpackers thus far committed to this venture.     Wolfgang now accepting applications for the positions of chief and subordinate porters

Response:

Padishar, I believe the next clave is the Michigan Micro-Clave at the end of April….I believe Wolfgang is the clavemiester. Technically true, but I fear the additional weight of 150 or so flies might prove burdensome to the three intrepid backpackers thus far committed to this venture.    

Well, I will be in Germany fishing with Mike in March, so *technically*, not only is that earlier, it is more micro too<g. — Charlie…

Response:

Padishar, I believe the next clave is the Michigan Micro-Clave at the end of April….I believe Wolfgang is the clavemiester. That would be the "landlocked rainbow trout" clave, right?

‘Fraid not Steve.  As everyone here knows, rainbows are an anadromous (read sea running) species.  There are no fish in this region that migrate to and or from the sea, ergo these cannot be rainbows. Wolfgang

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Padishar, I believe the next clave is the Michigan Micro-Clave at the end of April….I believe Wolfgang is the clavemiester. That would be the "landlocked rainbow trout" clave, right? ‘Fraid not Steve.  As everyone here knows, rainbows are an anadromous (read sea running) species.  There are no fish in this region that migrate to and or from the sea, ergo these cannot be rainbows. Wolfgang

I’m sure you know I’m just kidding, Wolfgang. I hope you guys catch lots of those faux steelhead. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

I’m sure you know I’m just kidding, Wolfgang. I hope you guys catch lots of those faux steelhead.

Yep, knew that.  I hope we catch a bunch too.  And at least one of us intends to supplement the groceries carried in with fresh fish.  Last time we did this, we had a rookie backpacker with us (heh, heh).  We had a memorable feast of fresh (5 minutes out of the stream) trout, dredged in egg and cornmeal, and then deep fried in honest to god lard!!    :) Wolfgang here newbie…..here newbie….hold this…..follow me….

Response:

"Wolfgang" wrote Technically true, but I fear the additional weight of 150 or so flies might prove burdensome to the three intrepid backpackers thus far committed to this venture.     Wolfgang

Wolfie, Not if Bruce H. ties them on his size #64 hooks.  :-)

Response:

Technically true, but I fear the additional weight of 150 or so flies might prove burdensome to the three intrepid backpackers thus far committed to this venture.     Well, I will be in Germany fishing with Mike in March, so *technically*, not only is that earlier, it is more micro too<g.

Earlier, yes.  More micro?  Well, maybe so, and maybe no. Wolfgang who has spent more than one day holed up in a cabin in inclement weather reflecting pass the chianti

Response:

Well, I will be in Germany fishing with Mike in March, so *technically*, not only is that earlier, it is more micro too<g.

    then vulfy respondeth: Earlier, yes.  More micro?  Well, maybe so, and maybe no.

    ah jus wanna, ah say, ah jus want you two rookie wannabe clavemeisters to know that there is a 10 person lower limit before the event chairperson becomes an honest-to-god clavemeister, thus becoming entitled to learn the ultra-secret clavemeister handshake and further unspeakably impressive credentials.     wayno…or is that "meaningless credentials"; i never could get that straight…

Response:

   ah jus wanna, ah say, ah jus want you two rookie wannabe clavemeisters to know that there is a 10 person lower limit before the event chairperson becomes an honest-to-god clavemeister,

No worries there, I’ve *seen* what clavemeisters look and act like, we will be sure there are well below 9 (leaving a margin of error for ‘loading’)… <g — Charlie…

Response:

Padishar, I believe the next clave is the Michigan Micro-Clave at the end of April….I believe Wolfgang is the clavemiester.

Allow me add this insight, Padishar. Sending the flies the the Micro-Clave is a great idea, but do NOT under any circumstances consider actually attending said Clave. With Wolfgang, KenF and asadi in primitive conditions with only a limited supply of alcohol, I think after a few hours you’d have more fun getting mauled by a bear –Steve (absolutely despondent over not being able to attend, BTW)

Response:

….With Wolfgang, KenF and asadi in primitive conditions with only a limited supply of alcohol, I think after a few hours you’d have more fun getting mauled by a bear

Fortunately, the Porcupine Mountains are a particularly good place to put that proposition to the test.      :) Wolfgang oh, we’re gonna have a rippin good time!

Response:

Mr Creel    if you want to send me the extra boxes of flies I will present half of them to the Penn Clave and half of them to the Maine Clave as raffle prizes.  { and hope to win one box of each for my own use.]  Indian Joe McIntosh  8828 Olympic Lane  Wilmington N.C. 28411

Response:

Indian Joe writes: Mr Creel    if you want to send me the extra boxes of flies I will present half of them to the Penn Clave and half of them to the Maine Clave as raffle prizes. { and hope to win one box of each for my own use

Are you volunteering, IJ, to be the raffle meister at the Maine Clave?  <g Dave L.

Response:

Dave asks? Are you volunteering, IJ, to be the raffle meister at the Maine Clave?  <g

on top of apparently doing the same for Penn’s<g!!!                            Tom L

Response:

Surprisingly, this sounds remarkably fair.  I don’t think there will be a raffle at the Susquehanna Hackers Into Tackling Shad clave.  At the end of April – first week of May.        Frank Mr Creel    if you want to send me the extra boxes of flies I will present half of them to the Penn Clave and half of them to the Maine Clave as raffle prizes.  { and hope to win one box of each for my own use.]  Indian Joe McIntosh  8828 Olympic Lane  Wilmington N.C. 28411

Response:

Dave LaCourse asks: Are you volunteering, IJ, to be the raffle meister at the Maine Clave?  <g on top of apparently doing the same for Penn’s<g!!!

My first reaction was "Oh, no!! IJ will rig the raffle!" But on second thought, I’m convinced it’s a good idea. After all, IJ always manages to whine his way into the prize he wants anyhow so there’s nothing to lose. Besides, his cries of foul play would be directed solely at himself! –Steve (just kidding IJ)

Response:

Question:

Kevin;         As one of the ROFF skulkers who occasionally squeaks out a word or two, I would like to answer your question with a question.  That is, can you sign this insurance paper for me?  Please don’t take the good rods with you, just leave them at home along side a recent will naming me your beneficiary.        I’ve been in and out, through and under float tubes around the world, if there is a way of screwing up your life with a tube, I’ve done it.  ANY MOVING WATER FASTER THAN 1/2 MILE AN HOUR CAN KILL YOU.  You will be amazed at how much pressure moving water can put on you when you are hung on a snag.  Yes, you may be strong and virile, but cold water saps strength quickly and something that is a minor problem at the start of the day will do you in at the end of the day.        There is a river in England that flows just north of Cambridge and runs into the North Sea.  This river is called (seriously) the Great Ouse. Ouse actually is an ancient word meaning river.  It is so slow (it has many locks to keep it that way), that you can paddle up stream in a tube with a bit of difficulty, but it can be done.   After a day of fishing this wonderful pike and chub Mecca, my tube got caught on a bit of rebar that was still encased in cement.  Normally I would have just pushed off of it, but I was so cold and tired that I ended up cutting my saddle out with my emergency knife (always carry a serrated edge folding knife in your life vest or fly vest.  They will save your life.) and sliding through the bottom.  I swam to shore and shivered until some coarse fishermen came to my rescue.      We always fish until we can’t fish anymore, till we can barely move our arms, till climbing one more bank will give us a coronary.  We are men so we work past the pain ’cause we’re having fun.  Add the strength and endurance sapping abilities of cold water, mix in a bit of fluid dynamics and voila, one more float tubing widow using that Sage as a tomato stake.      Yeh, this story was a bit of a downer, but I want to hear the story of how many fish you caught when you get back.                                                         Frank Reid

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking of getting a belly boat to float down the bow in.  Is this a suicidal thing to do? Would I be better off buying a (much more expensive!!!) pontoon boat? Thanks KB

Response:

Ok I’m convinced.  Thank you for saving me from making a very silly mistake! I’ll take a look at pontoon boats. I think they’re a couple of hundred more than a belly boat though, so I may just settle for bellying in lakes this year.

Actually if you look at pontoons that are made for moving water they are way more than a couple of hundred more. I’ve got a friend who guides in them and he has a hobie and an outcast. the hobies are no good for rivers according to him, and he wouldn’t risk his life in one, his outcast pac 9 however, is very safe. The downside is a pac 9 is about $1000 us. Flyfish

Response:

Kevin, Check out the new Water Skeeter Pontoon boats at http://www.finecast.net/ws/wsindex.html Fine Cast

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking of getting a belly boat to float down the bow in.  Is this a suicidal thing to do? Would I be better off buying a (much more expensive!!!) pontoon boat? Thanks KB

Response:

Suicidal?  Likely.  While most of the Bow in and downstream from Calgary looks pretty benign, there are a lot of sunken snags and sweepers which you WILL catch your dangling feet on, and get rolled under by.  I would approach with extreme caution, and the higher you are out of the water, the better. Besides, a float tube will not be able to be manoeuvered as quickly as a pontoon or proper drift boat, so you’ll end up floating through and right by many nice runs.  Go rent a ‘toon, and have a better time.

Response:

Ok I’m convinced.  Thank you for saving me from making a very silly mistake! I’ll take a look at pontoon boats. I think they’re a couple of hundred more than a belly boat though, so I may just settle for bellying in lakes this year. My Uncle lives in Ely, near Cambridge and I’ve fished the Ouse (I think it was was Ouse anyway), back when I was fishing for Dace, Chub, Bream and Gudgeon (caught a lot of eels instead) with maggots, cheese, sausage and using float and ledger rods (the English way of fishing!) It’s funny I tried really hard to fish english style when I came to Canada but had almost no luck. This fish are different here!  I took up Fly fishing and haven’t looked back, although I do have fond memories of sitting by the canal with a double maggot/caster combination, checking the lie of the float and all that good stuff! Cheers Kevin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Kevin;         As one of the ROFF skulkers who occasionally squeaks out a word or two, I would like to answer your question with a question.  That is, can you sign this insurance paper for me?  Please don’t take the good rods with you, just leave them at home along side a recent will naming me your beneficiary.        I’ve been in and out, through and under float tubes around the world, if there is a way of screwing up your life with a tube, I’ve done it.  ANY MOVING WATER FASTER THAN 1/2 MILE AN HOUR CAN KILL YOU.  You will be amazed at how much pressure moving water can put on you when you are hung on a snag.  Yes, you may be strong and virile, but cold water saps strength quickly and something that is a minor problem at the start of the day will do you in at the end of the day.        There is a river in England that flows just north of Cambridge and runs into the North Sea.  This river is called (seriously) the Great Ouse. Ouse actually is an ancient word meaning river.  It is so slow (it has many locks to keep it that way), that you can paddle up stream in a tube with a bit of difficulty, but it can be done.   After a day of fishing this wonderful pike and chub Mecca, my tube got caught on a bit of rebar that was still encased in cement.  Normally I would have just pushed off of it, but I was so cold and tired that I ended up cutting my saddle out with my emergency knife (always carry a serrated edge folding knife in your life vest or fly vest.  They will save your life.) and sliding through the bottom.  I swam to shore and shivered until some coarse fishermen came to my rescue.      We always fish until we can’t fish anymore, till we can barely move our arms, till climbing one more bank will give us a coronary.  We are men so we work past the pain ’cause we’re having fun.  Add the strength and endurance sapping abilities of cold water, mix in a bit of fluid dynamics and voila, one more float tubing widow using that Sage as a tomato stake.      Yeh, this story was a bit of a downer, but I want to hear the story of how many fish you caught when you get back.                                                         Frank Reid I’m thinking of getting a belly boat to float down the bow in.  Is this a suicidal thing to do? Would I be better off buying a (much more expensive!!!) pontoon boat? Thanks KB

Response:

I’m thinking of getting a belly boat to float down the bow in.  Is this a suicidal thing to do? Would I be better off buying a (much more expensive!!!) pontoon boat? Thanks KB

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We caught a nice break in the weather this early afternoon so I put on my Fall Ball cap and took my newly acquired 9/3 Winston out for a few hours of peaceful fishing on a very local bass pond. I combined the fishing with experimentation with three different lines that I had laying about, a DT2F, a WF3F, and a TT2/3. Tripper, Great story! And it’s nice to know that I’m not the only other person on ROFF who has been fishing recently, what with the "To Whom It May Concern" mega-crisis (did anyone report this to the ACLU? to the UN? to Al Gore?) to deal with and everything.

        aw, hell, steve, you aren’t about to buy that yankee bullshit, are you?  i’ve fished with him; he couldn’t throw a *rock* 90′, let alone a fly line.         and besides, the only winston i have (7′ 2wt) is a beautiful thing to see, but a touch too weak in the butt for my tastes.         ok, i’ll come clean:  the rascal *can* fish his fly!  but the winston is still too soft!         wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Of course, hearing your casting distance figures reminds me that it’s time for another casting lesson or two (or ten). –Steve

Response:

[snipped rock abuse]    and besides, the only winston i have (7′ 2wt) is a beautiful thing to see, but a touch too weak in the butt for my tastes.    ok, i’ll come clean:  the rascal *can* fish his fly!  but the winston is still too soft!    wayno

Ah, another fellow flyflinger in distress… I feel your pain, too, counselor, and am more than prepared to relieve you of the cause. Send that "too soft" rod to a good home where it’ll be loved. You already have my address. /daytripper (still waitin’ on that paintin’, btw ;^)

Response:

… Hmmm, the 7.5/3wt (3pc) we’ve both cast feels to me medium/slow; with a TT 3/4 and a Cortland Clear Creek WF3, never had a DT on it.

FWIW, the Winston recommended line for their IM6 rods is a DT. Tho I too fish my Winstons with a TT. I just picked up a Wulf long belly line and tried it with my five weight, wish I tried one sooner. — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas but counting the days to the Keys Before you buy.

Response:

Our lips never touched – no matter what you might have heard ;^) /daytripper (never gonna live that one down…)

I believe what you said was you tried to *shotgun* a cigarette with it. — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

Response:

   and besides, the only winston i have (7′ 2wt) is a beautiful thing to see, but a touch too weak in the butt for my tastes.    ok, i’ll come clean:  the rascal *can* fish his fly!  but the winston is still too soft!

Wanna trade a Sage 2wt SPL for it? — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

Response:

Thank you for the post.  I like it. —   Vern  ^^^^^^^ (o)-(o)/     "    ___ Before you buy.

Response:

FWIW, the Winston recommended line for their IM6 rods is a DT. Tho I too fish my Winstons with a TT. I just picked up a Wulf long belly line and tried it with my five weight, wish I tried one sooner.

You’re learning, Wayne ;^)

Response:

FWIW, the Winston recommended line for their IM6 rods is a DT. Tho I too fish my Winstons with a TT. I just picked up a Wulf long belly line and tried it with my five weight, wish I tried one sooner. You’re learning, Wayne ;^)

I never stop learning Mr Tripper, — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

Response:

       and besides, the only winston i have (7′ 2wt) is a beautiful thing to see, but a touch too weak in the butt for my tastes.        ok, i’ll come clean:  the rascal *can* fish his fly!  but the winston is still too soft! Wanna trade a Sage 2wt SPL for it?

        no thanks, bud; a friend of mine got rid of his sage 2wt when he couldn’t get it to load up under 20′ with a 6wt tri-taper…         just kiddin, of course; but the winston was custom made for me, has my name on the butt, and has become one of the things my two boys will fight over, one of these days. wayno

Response:

… With the exception of my temporarily "indisposed" 7.5/2wt, every Winston I own or have cast could be categorized as having a medium action (the little 2wt is surprisingly fast). …

Hmmm, the 7.5/3wt (3pc) we’ve both cast feels to me medium/slow; with a TT 3/4 and a Cortland Clear Creek WF3, never had a DT on it. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

/daytripper ("Bullwinkle"? Where’d *that* come from?)

Foggy brain on my part.  Rocky used to say, "and now for something we hope you really like." or something to that effect.  Then again I remember hearing of you romancing a moose, once <g. Mu

Response:

Hmmm, the 7.5/3wt (3pc) we’ve both cast feels to me medium/slow; with a TT 3/4 and a Cortland Clear Creek WF3, never had a DT on it.

Well, as I said, some people would feel that way. I fished your rod with the DT2F that I use on my two weight, and it cast very nicely with it – it felt "medium-fast" with that line, threw nice tight loops, and on the only river big enough to air it out a little (the Harrison) I ran out of room before I ran out of line. (Ya know, I almost asked you to sell that rod to me back then ;^) I suspect the TT3/4 would overload it, though I could be wrong. If you can find someone who has a TT2/3, you might be pleasantly surprised (that is, unless you like the slower action). Otherwise, bring it to Maine with you next fall, and you can try out a whole bunch of lines on it. /daytripper  (Or let me do it ;^)

Response:

/daytripper ("Bullwinkle"? Where’d *that* come from?) Foggy brain on my part.  Rocky used to say, "and now for something we hope you really like." or something to that effect.

Yup – you have an excellent memory! This similar quote, however, is from the Monty Python tv show. Then again I remember hearing of you romancing a moose, once <g.

Our lips never touched – no matter what you might have heard ;^) /daytripper (never gonna live that one down…)

Response:

Now you’ve got me dreaming.  One of the local stores has an RPL 390 blank in its discount bin.  Maybe if it’s still there after Xmas . . . Peter

Response:

We caught a nice break in the weather this early afternoon so I put on my Fall Ball cap and took my newly acquired 9/3 Winston out for a few hours of peaceful fishing on a very local bass pond. I combined the fishing with experimentation with three different lines that I had laying about, a DT2F, a WF3F, and a TT2/3.

Tripper, Great story! And it’s nice to know that I’m not the only other person on ROFF who has been fishing recently, what with the "To Whom It May Concern" mega-crisis (did anyone report this to the ACLU? to the UN? to Al Gore?) to deal with and everything. Of course, hearing your casting distance figures reminds me that it’s time for another casting lesson or two (or ten). –Steve

Response:

Daytripper:  Thanks for this thread. I have a friend who tried out my Scott G-series 3 weight at rezendevous about a month ago . He had never tried a slower action rod before and was impressed. I received an e-mail from him last week. He awaiting the arrival of his Winston 8.5 foot 3 weight rod. I just hope he enjoys it as much as you do your Winstons. Big Dale

Response:

Daytripper:  Thanks for this thread. I have a friend who tried out my Scott G-series 3 weight at rezendevous about a month ago . He had never tried a slower action rod before and was impressed.

I’m partial to the G series rods too. I’m thinking about telling Santa about their new 8′ 3 piece 2 wt<g. — Charlie…

Response:

We caught a nice break in the weather this early afternoon so I put on my Fall Ball cap and took my newly acquired 9/3 Winston The TT2/3 was the monster of the three – turned this rod into a mini-howitzer; once I had the feel for the rod, the entire line could be cast with moderate effort

Thanks Bullwinkle.  BTW, I haven’t ever touched a Winston IM6 but I thought they were supposed to be moderate action rods.  Is it actually a fast rod or are you a very good caster? Mu

Response:

We caught a nice break in the weather this early afternoon so I put on my Fall Ball cap and took my newly acquired 9/3 Winston The TT2/3 was the monster of the three – turned this rod into a mini-howitzer; once I had the feel for the rod, the entire line could be cast with moderate effort Thanks Bullwinkle.  BTW, I haven’t ever touched a Winston IM6 but I thought they were supposed to be moderate action rods.  Is it actually a fast rod or are you a very good caster?

With the exception of my temporarily "indisposed" 7.5/2wt, every Winston I own or have cast could be categorized as having a medium action (the little 2wt is surprisingly fast). The 9/3 might even be termed medium-slow by some. But if you get in tune with your thumb on the top of the grip, you can really get their IM6 rods to zing line (I’ve often thrown the entire DT2F on my little 2 weight with surprisingly little effort when I’m really in sync with that rod). I have been flyfishing for almost 36 years now, and while I’m not going to win any casting championships, I can throw a line. But you have to have tried a Wulff Triangle Taper line to understand that if distance is the game, a TT will give you an almost unfair advantage. This is a weight forward line with a stepless front taper and no rear taper to speak of; and the running line has an unusually thin diameter and a hard surface. The result is so little guide friction or wind resistance that it just shoots like crazy, and an 80 foot cast doesn’t require a champion to achieve (90 foot line minus the length of the rod). When I let the first good cast fly with this line, I had about 60 feet of line out – and it really jerked the reel but good, such was the line speed. Surprised the heck out of me, so I just kept feeding out more line until I hit the backing. On my best casts with the little nymph on the end, I was shooting over twenty feet of line off the ground and through the guides. Very satisfying, if impractical under most circumstances. With anything more wind resistant than that nymph, I could get the line out but it didn’t have enough terminal velocity to do much more than puddle the leader at the far end of the cast. After all the above, however, in truth I prefer DT lines for their versatility and typically softer "landing" characteristic, and I’ll probably try an SA or DT3F on this rod before next spring. The WF3 and TT2/3 were my dad’s lines for one of his cane rods that I also inherited. They provide impressive results wrt distance, and I’ll keep them at the ready, but I’d rather have the DT for every day use. /daytripper ("Bullwinkle"? Where’d *that* come from?)

Response:

Daytripper, We caught a nice break in the weather this early afternoon so I put on my Fall Ball cap and took my newly acquired 9/3 Winston out for a few hours of peaceful fishing on a very local bass pond.

What part of the world are you in?  Out here in Northern CA, it seems a bit too wintry for bassin’. I love fishing small poppers, btw. Even the smallest sunfish often explode from the water with the gaudy bug firmly clenched, making more than their fair share of commotion as they splash down. Short strip, wait, short strip, wait, wiggle and wait, then WHAMMO!

I’m another popper lover.  Each winter I make up a bunch of balsa poppers and enjoy the anticipation of March. Too bad it had to end so early (goddamned daylight savings time!)

Yeah… Glad you got some fishin’ in. Wes Peterson LexCraft Data Services

Response:

OK – YOU SUCCEEDED I am Jealous. Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We caught a nice break in the weather this early afternoon so I put on my Fall Ball cap and took my newly acquired 9/3 Winston out for a few hours of peaceful fishing on a very local bass pond. I combined the fishing with experimentation with three different lines that I had laying about, a DT2F, a WF3F, and a TT2/3. fwiw, the DT2F definitely underlined the rod, which was to be expected, and made for too much work. The TT2/3 was the monster of the three – turned this rod into a mini-howitzer; once I had the feel for the rod, the entire line could be cast with moderate effort, although at that range the longish front taper didn’t turn over the popper-ladened leader consistently (though with a #14 Montana I could straighten the line at the same insane distance). The WF3F was quite enjoyable, loaded the rod quickly but not overly, and would deliver a small popper very nicely as far as ~70 feet before running out of line speed. So I left the WF on for the rest of the short outing, and woke up a bunch of long-eared sunnies along with a pair of foot-long large mouths. I usually fish this pond with my 9/5 but the 3-weight was a lot more fun on these li’l fellers, which put a goodly bend in the rod. I love fishing small poppers, btw. Even the smallest sunfish often explode from the water with the gaudy bug firmly clenched, making more than their fair share of commotion as they splash down. Short strip, wait, short strip, wait, wiggle and wait, then WHAMMO! Too cool! Between the fishing, the warmish weather, the heron stalking the band, and a very talkative pair of mallards cruising along, it was an entertaining few hours away from the ‘puters, which seem to be in a bad mood the last few days. Too bad it had to end so early (goddamned daylight savings time!) /daytripper (Peace, Love, Hair, Beads, Flowers, Fur Coats…and HATS!)

Response:

i know what my problem is, two huge school assignments hanging over my head and no fishing since Mu’s visit.  Withdrawal is making me surly.

Pete, you of all people I find hard to picture as ever being surly! That Winston’s a lovely rod btw, enjoy heartily.  I bet it would be great for brookies off the wing dam.

And indeed, this is what I had in mind when I decided I "needed" this particular model. On those days that the wind isn’t blasting up river off Pondy, it should be a riot! Can you imaging hooking a 20" wild brookie and holding it with a 3 wt on that river? Yikes! Hope you catch a break and get out before the water gets solid up there, Peter… /daytripper

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Daytripper, What part of the world are you in?  Out here in Northern CA, it seems a bit too wintry for bassin’.

Central Massachusetts, Wes. Indeed, normally the bass would be snoozin’ (don’t know about the sunnies – they always seem cooperative around here if they aren’t trapped under ice ;^) But we experienced a "Blazing Inferno"  of a summer this year, and I think some ponds are just getting settled before winter creeps in. On a nice afternoon a fish or six can be still be raised with a tempting bug… Gotta get the last licks in before my mind turns to skiing. /daytripper

Response:

We caught a nice break in the weather this early afternoon so I put on my Fall Ball cap and took my newly acquired 9/3 Winston out for a few hours of peaceful fishing on a very local bass pond. I combined the fishing with experimentation with three different lines that I had laying about, a DT2F, a WF3F, and a TT2/3. fwiw, the DT2F definitely underlined the rod, which was to be expected, and made for too much work. The TT2/3 was the monster of the three – turned this rod into a mini-howitzer; once I had the feel for the rod, the entire line could be cast with moderate effort, although at that range the longish front taper didn’t turn over the popper-ladened leader consistently (though with a #14 Montana I could straighten the line at the same insane distance). The WF3F was quite enjoyable, loaded the rod quickly but not overly, and would deliver a small popper very nicely as far as ~70 feet before running out of line speed. So I left the WF on for the rest of the short outing, and woke up a bunch of long-eared sunnies along with a pair of foot-long large mouths. I usually fish this pond with my 9/5 but the 3-weight was a lot more fun on these li’l fellers, which put a goodly bend in the rod. I love fishing small poppers, btw. Even the smallest sunfish often explode from the water with the gaudy bug firmly clenched, making more than their fair share of commotion as they splash down. Short strip, wait, short strip, wait, wiggle and wait, then WHAMMO! Too cool! Between the fishing, the warmish weather, the heron stalking the band, and a very talkative pair of mallards cruising along, it was an entertaining few hours away from the ‘puters, which seem to be in a bad mood the last few days. Too bad it had to end so early (goddamned daylight savings time!) /daytripper (Peace, Love, Hair, Beads, Flowers, Fur Coats…and HATS!)

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{ a lot of great Winston stuff snipped] Too cool! Between the fishing, the warmish weather, the heron stalking the band, and a very talkative pair of mallards cruising along, it was an entertaining few hours away from the ‘puters, which seem to be in a bad mood the last few days. Too bad it had to end so early (goddamned daylight savings time!) /daytripper (Peace, Love, Hair, Beads, Flowers, Fur Coats…and HATS!)

i know what my problem is, two huge school assignments hanging over my head and no fishing since Mu’s visit.  Withdrawal is making me surly. That Winston’s a lovely rod btw, enjoy heartily.  I bet it would be great for brookies off the wing dam. Peter

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been fishing streams recently and noticing that the last 2-3 feet of my line is sinking.  It is a Cortland 444 WF-5-F line and is about a year old and hasn’t been heavily fished.  Besides cleaning the line, is there anything else I can do to prevent this?….it makes it hard to keep the fly up! Also, what is the best product out there for making the line slide through the guides better? Thanks Dustin Let the line dry out for a good period, and then ensure that the end is sealed with a good waterproof glue or similar, water may be seeping into the core. Otherwise use the cortland line cleaner and dressing. TL MC

Yes, I agree. Check the line to make sure, let it dry and use some line cleaner/dressing. If that doesn’t work, make sure you are mending your line so that that current isn’t pulling it under. DAYGLOW York Team DBE

Response:

I get the same problem with my Airflo 7000, I tried cleaning it and that helped, but I will try sealing it now!

Response:

I have been fishing streams recently and noticing that the last 2-3 feet of my line is sinking.  It is a Cortland 444 WF-5-F line and is about a year old and hasn’t been heavily fished.  Besides cleaning the line, is there anything else I can do to prevent this?….it makes it hard to keep the fly up! Also, what is the best product out there for making the line slide through the guides better? Thanks Dustin

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been fishing streams recently and noticing that the last 2-3 feet of my line is sinking.  It is a Cortland 444 WF-5-F line and is about a year old and hasn’t been heavily fished.  Besides cleaning the line, is there anything else I can do to prevent this?….it makes it hard to keep the fly up! Also, what is the best product out there for making the line slide through the guides better? Thanks Dustin

Let the line dry out for a good period, and then ensure that the end is sealed with a good waterproof glue or similar, water may be seeping into the core. Otherwise use the cortland line cleaner and dressing. TL MC

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says… : Alagnak 1998 I will not be jealous. I will not be jealous. I will not be jealous. JonCook. Easier for you to say than I! (I *am* jealous. I AM jealous. I am SOOOOO jealous! ;^) Great story, Andrew! /daytripper I agree, i’m so damn jealous my skin’s a turnin’ green. great report…. –Wataugan Walt

I betcha he never left his house.  I betcha he invented all of this just to piss us off. . . .    It’s working, it’s working, I’m pissed.   Great trip, Andrew.  We all desreve at least one of these per lifetime. Peter Peter        Merry Christmas

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I betcha he never left his house.  I betcha he invented all of this just to piss us off. . . .    It’s working, it’s working, I’m pissed.   Great trip, Andrew.  We all desreve at least one of these per lifetime. Peter

I just want to say, right here, right now, that I have the best wife in the world, not least because she lets me do this more than once in a lifetime.   Now, about that "Betcha he never left the house" stuff, try these on for size…  http://www.aa.net/~andrewbr/alagnak/ The jpegs are a little big, so it’s kinda slow to load, but it’ll give you a nice sense of what the trip was like.   Lest any of you think this was some big bucks, Gucci trip,  this cost us less than $600/apiece, not counting airfare to King Salmon and malt beverages.  Start saving your pennies, men. — Andrew Brunette

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I just want to say, right here, right now, that I have the best wife in the world, not least because she lets me do this more than once in a lifetime.   Now, about that "Betcha he never left the house" stuff, try these on for size…  http://www.aa.net/~andrewbr/alagnak/ The jpegs are a little big, so it’s kinda slow to load, but it’ll give you a nice sense of what the trip was like.   Lest any of you think this was some big bucks, Gucci trip,  this cost us less than $600/apiece, not counting airfare to King Salmon and malt beverages.  Start saving your pennies, men. — Andrew Brunette

Andrew Nice site and pix.  Actually this is a great idea as we all like to talk about our trips and stuff.  Building a simple site combines the pix with the text for a better story.   Looks like some of us (me) will have to brush up on our HTML skills. Peter Peter        Merry Christmas

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: : Now, about that "Betcha he never left the house" stuff, try these on for : size…  http://www.aa.net/~andrewbr/alagnak/ Andrew, please let me know where you bought those pictures, I’d like to see if they’ll put together a "saltwater flats" trip for me…

Rite-Aid photo counter.  They have the plastic bushes, blow up fish, everything.  They even told me, "you don’t look like a good enough fisherman to use the big fish dummies, use these middlesized ones instead."   Didn’t even charge me more than the normal 6.95 a roll for the Pix.  Is it great living in the age of the service economy or what? — Andrew Brunette

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Alagnak 1998 It was a hot, buggy afternoon when we landed in King Salmon.  One of our party was already missing, having been marooned in a hostile check-in line in Anchorage.  We had stopped there to see some friends, pick up licenses and stimulate the late summer business of the local fly shop economy.  

Hi Andrew, This reminded me of my first AK trip. I floated the Togiak River with Bus Bergman, Jim and Kitty Vincent (Rio Line Company) and my cousin in 1976. It was a wonderful trip and was the real AK experience. Float trips are great. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Alagnak 1998 I will not be jealous. I will not be jealous. I will not be jealous. JonCook. Easier for you to say than I! (I *am* jealous. I AM jealous. I am SOOOOO jealous! ;^) Great story, Andrew! /daytripper

I agree, i’m so damn jealous my skin’s a turnin’ green. great report…. –Wataugan Walt

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Great report Andrew … thanks for the post.

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: Alagnak 1998 I will not be jealous. I will not be jealous. I will not be jealous. JonCook.

Easier for you to say than I! (I *am* jealous. I AM jealous. I am SOOOOO jealous! ;^) Great story, Andrew! /daytripper

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Great report – thanks. Thomas Gilg

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: Alagnak 1998 I will not be jealous. I will not be jealous. I will not be jealous. JonCook.

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Alagnak 1998 It was a hot, buggy afternoon when we landed in King Salmon.  One of our party was already missing, having been marooned in a hostile check-in line in Anchorage.  We had stopped there to see some friends, pick up licenses and stimulate the late summer business of the local fly shop economy.   After trying to locate the bush carrier that we were to use, we found out that we had a couple of hours to kill, so while waiting for Dave, we loaded up on the supplies that were too heavy to fly in from Seattle, notably Milwaukee

Question:

Does anyone have knowledge and advice re: flyfishing for smallmouth in the Russian River. Thank in advance Bill C

Response:

Does anyone have knowledge and advice re: flyfishing for smallmouth in the Russian River. Thank in advance Bill C

Use crayfish patterns of 1" to ! 1/4" in length.  Rust color to almost black.  Best time for these patterns is late summer and fall.  Best smallmouth fishing is above Wholer Bridge to Cloverdale.  Use a canoe to drift the river. you will have best luck around the vineyards as people can’t get there to swim as easily as they can when they get close to roads. Good Luck —                                     Jeff Olsen If you don"t know your rights,                                            you have none.

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Question:

It looks like I’m going to be heading to Manchester, VT. next weekend and was wondered if anyone had any suggestions for places to try.  Is there anything hatching or should I just rely on nymphs and terrestials? The other part of the subject line refers to a book I just read.  The author is a guy named Lietz that used to produce T.V. commercials before becoming an author and moving to a small town in Vermont.  He has written two mysteries that are centered around a Flyfishing resort in Vermont.   "Dying To Flyfish" is both a good mystery and a pretty good book about flyfishing as well.  Check it out. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fishing is limited to 2 fish over 14 and less then 16 inches. Fishing is permitted only when the water temperature is less then 70 degrees. I was going to add: Fishing by special use permit only between may and august ? And would consider: Closed during November/December (Browns ?) Take some work, but it would be worth it. TimW Tim, I generally don’t pay too much attention to your rants, but It seems that you probably hit the nail on the head here.

He does make an interesting suggestion, that is, the use of special user permits.  In order to even enter many wilderness areas a "wilderness permit" must be aquired (though I’ve yet to see any enforcement of this personally).  One of the goals is to be able to track someone down if they somehow got lost or injured but in many places they also serve as a quota system.  Wouldn’t the use of a similar quota system, and enforcing it, such that a limited number of anglers are allowed on wild streams (along with enforced slot limits) result in a similar reduction of the impact on these resources? — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Battenkill sucks…*you* can fish the catch and release section if you like…if you enjoy catching the occasional 8" trout….30 years ago before the tubbers, and the canoeist…before the live bait fisherman hauled the larger breeder fish out of the river…the Battenkill was a pretty spectaculer river…back then my dad and I fished the river quite a bit…after a warm summer rain if you knew how to fish streamers, or bucktails it would not be unusual to catch a 3 or 4 pound brown or two…evennings, rising trout were plentiful…ah well…if people had the guts to do what needs to be done the fishing got come back…but no one will stand up to the "local experts" and put some serious catch limits on the river…no one will shutdown the two operations that put 50 or 60 canoes on the river every summer day…this kind of pressure, low water and warm water temps. stresses fish…it’s sad to see a "classic" stream like the ‘kill abused and deprived of it’s fish. Tough, tough multi-use call… I wonder about your assessment that the canoers really change the fish counts ? I honestly do not know the answer. Low/Warm water ? Better not have ANY C&R regs here.  Really pulling one out of the butt, I’ll take a stab at a set of regs for the Kill. Fishing is limited to 2 fish over 14 and less then 16 inches. Fishing is permitted only when the water temperature is less then 70 degrees. I was going to add: Fishing by special use permit only between may and august ? And would consider: Closed during November/December (Browns ?) Take some work, but it would be worth it. TimW

Tim, I generally don’t pay too much attention to your rants, but It seems that you probably hit the nail on the head here. Randy

Response:

John,  THE largest hatch on the Kill’ at this time of year is the Grumman hatch …sorry to say, the Mettawee is nice.  Early & late is correct for the Battenkill, Isonychias, Tricos, BW Olives….but there is one reason NOT to pass up the Kill’ ..the browns can be literally Anywhere..IN the current, OUT of the current..in some dark secluded pocket(many on the stream…) the river is loaded with pockets/undercut banks..although not readily noticeable at first.  The Battenkill in Vermont is more of a stream…and slowly becomes more of a river once in NY, so you also have somewhat of a choice of what size water you want to fish. steve d.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Battenkill sucks…*you* can fish the catch and release section if you like…if you enjoy catching the occasional 8" trout….30 years ago before the tubbers, and the canoeist…before the live bait fisherman hauled the larger breeder fish out of the river…the Battenkill was a pretty spectaculer river…back then my dad and I fished the river quite a bit…after a warm summer rain if you knew how to fish streamers, or bucktails it would not be unusual to catch a 3 or 4 pound brown or two…evennings, rising trout were plentiful…ah well…if people had the guts to do what needs to be done the fishing got come back…but no one will stand up to the "local experts" and put some serious catch limits on the river…no one will shutdown the two operations that put 50 or 60 canoes on the river every summer day…this kind of pressure, low water and warm water temps. stresses fish…it’s sad to see a "classic" stream like the ‘kill abused and deprived of it’s fish.

Tough, tough multi-use call… I wonder about your assessment that the canoers really change the fish counts ? I honestly do not know the answer. Low/Warm water ? Better not have ANY C&R regs here.  Really pulling one out of the butt, I’ll take a stab at a set of regs for the Kill. Fishing is limited to 2 fish over 14 and less then 16 inches. Fishing is permitted only when the water temperature is less then 70 degrees. I was going to add: Fishing by special use permit only between may and august ? And would consider: Closed during November/December (Browns ?) Take some work, but it would be worth it. TimW

Response:

The Battenkill sucks…*you* can fish the catch and release section if you like…if you enjoy catching the occasional 8" trout….30 years ago before the tubbers, and the canoeist…before the live bait fisherman hauled the larger breeder fish out of the river…the Battenkill was a pretty spectaculer river…back then my dad and I fished the river quite a bit…after a warm summer rain if you knew how to fish streamers, or bucktails it would not be unusual to catch a 3 or 4 pound brown or two…evennings, rising trout were plentiful…ah well…if people had the guts to do what needs to be done the fishing got come back…but no one will stand up to the "local experts" and put some serious catch limits on the river…no one will shutdown the two operations that put 50 or 60 canoes on the river every summer day…this kind of pressure, low water and warm water temps. stresses fish…it’s sad to see a "classic" stream like the ‘kill abused and deprived of it’s fish. cds

Response:

writes: It looks like I’m going to be heading to Manchester, VT. next weekend and was wondered if anyone had any suggestions for places to try.  Is there anything hatching or should I just rely on nymphs and

terrestials? John, The obvious place is the Battenkill, probably the most famous place to fish in the NE.  Check out the orvis store there, they also have a fly-fishing/cathrelease only area that probably has some good fishing. THe folks there are quite nice and helpful. Mac

Response:

John, I would avoid the Battenkill – overrated. Try the Mettawee.  White Mayflies, Caddis and caddis pupa.  Terrestrials are still a viable option.  I do not mean to get down on the Battenkill, but unless you are there very early or very late it will be a parade of canoes and float tubes. There are some good "holes" but you would need a guide.  I do not say this because I am a guide because I do not guide the Battenkill.  I say it because I have fished the Battenkill extensively in the past.  Enjoy your trip and let me know if you need more help. Cheers, James Ehlers Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service LIC#2298 Underhill, VT

Response:

It looks like I’m going to be heading to Manchester, VT. next weekend and was wondered if anyone had any suggestions for places to try.  Is there anything hatching or should I just rely on nymphs and terrestials? John, I was there last weekend 8/16, we fished the Ottaquichee up north

of Ludlow VT.  The Battenkill is best on the NY side (5 or 6 miles from MAnchester), and only before 10 am or after 7 pm when the float tubers and kyackers are not on the water.  This was the advice from the guys at Orvis – and it proved correct.  PMD’s, sulphers and tricos were the recommended and used patterns, and adams worked well too. jg

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REMEMBER Eddie Murphy ! Don’t Get MURPHED ! Go Fishing !!! TimW

Response:

It looks like I’m going to be heading to Manchester, VT. next weekend and was wondered if anyone had any suggestions for places to try.  Is there anything hatching or should I just rely on nymphs and terrestials? John, I was there last weekend 8/16, we fished the Ottaquichee up north of Ludlow VT.  The Battenkill is best on the NY side (5 or 6 miles from MAnchester), and only before 10 am or after 7 pm when the float tubers and kyackers are not on the water.  This was the advice from the guys at Orvis – and it proved correct.  PMD’s, sulphers and tricos were the recommended and used patterns, and adams worked well too.

Okay, but what size?  Size *is* important in this case. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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Question:

I second that!!! Doug

Response:

I second that!!! Doug

        may the bears feed on the bastards without end.                 a. wayne harrison

Response:

A black bear went into the Country General here at high noon the other day. Walked right through the automatic doors.  They killed her.  Probably the sporting goods department manager did the deed. TimW

Shoplifting, no doubt. Charley

Response:

writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -For crying out loud… Of course there are bear in Colorado!!!! I was merely poking fun at folks headed for the South Platte who were honestly amazed at the thought that they might get encounter bear in the mountains! I mean, imagine that … Personally, having encountered black bear in Colorado and other places, I’d much prefer to run into one of them than what I’m more likely to run into near Deckers: armies of overdressed and undertalented Doug Swisher wannabes fishing midge patterns downstream like streamers and taking pictures of each other drinking Coors on the river bank. A bear would be better company! Spinoleo

Very Well said indeed my friend. I also think that some of the bears would have better manners too! Cliff

Response:

For crying out loud… Of course there are bear in Colorado!!!! I was merely poking fun at folks headed for the South Platte who were honestly amazed at the thought that they might get encounter bear in the mountains! I mean, imagine that … Personally, having encountered black bear in Colorado and other places, I’d much prefer to run into one of them than what I’m more likely to run into near Deckers: armies of overdressed and undertalented Doug Swisher wannabes fishing midge patterns downstream like streamers and taking pictures of each other drinking Coors on the river bank. A bear would be better company! Spinoleo

Response:

Bears in Colorado? Ha! That’ll be the day!

There are many bears in CO.  We have had bears in our yard.  Black bears however, but if they are eating your head I guess it doesn’t really matter.

Response:

Bears in Colorado? Ha! That’ll be the day! There are many bears in CO.  We have had bears in our yard.  Black bears however, but if they are eating your head I guess it doesn’t really matter.

A black bear went into the Country General here at high noon the other day.   Walked right through the automatic doors.  They killed her.  Probably the sporting goods department manager did the deed.   TimW

Response:

Hey Spinoleo, When were these bear attacks? I fish that area a lot and have even backpacked and camped back in Cheesman Canyon before. Anyway, I’ve not heard of any bear attacks. When did this happen? Thanks, Cliff

It happened about a week after the incident that drained the Big Hole in Montana… Or the spaceship episode on the Henry’s Fork… IT DIDN"T HAPPEN!!!! Bears in Colorado? Ha! That’ll be the day! Spinoleo

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can go to the South Platte at DeckersI-70 south on I-25 to the Santa Fe exit{u.s285}south from Denver to sedalia, west 27 miles. Best fishing is a mile above or below the small town of Deckers.(nice drive too!) It sure is a nice drive, but I don’t think anyone would want to take it nowadays, not with all the bear attacks. No trout is worth being maimed and mutilated beyond recognition, like those two fellows from Illinois. Spinoleo  

I make this drive at least once a week to Deckers and I have never seen  or heard of a bear attack. The biggest problem with Deckers is the weekend horde of flyfishers. If you can avoid the crowd, the experience is uplifting.

Response:

Hey Spinoleo, When were these bear attacks? I fish that area a lot and have even backpacked and camped back in Cheesman Canyon before. Anyway, I’ve not heard of any bear attacks. When did this happen?                                 Thanks, Cliff

Response:

In Colorado, I found that nothing can beat the Arkansas River especially in Sept and October (Brown spawning season).  Its about a 2 hour drive from Denver but worth it.  The water should be warm enough to wet wade by Early August.   The Arkansas River just down stream of Salida  is excellent. It’s not as crowded as the S. Platte. Brown stone flies nymphs, renegades, and olive elk hair caddis, hoppers.  In early October I had a 40 fish (14-18 inches) morning there on renegades fished just below the surface.   The best technique is wade the center of the river and cast to both banks.   The browns can often be seen with their dorsel fins out of the water up against the banks.  They also can be found during the summer in the riffles with their heads right into the rocks as the water comes over them.(more oxygen). My son and I spent many very enjoyable and productive hours on the Arkansas.  Continue on Rt 285 over Trout Creek Pass into the Arkansas Valley.  I can’t remember the Rt numbers from here but Salida is on the map.         The other possibility is Tarryall Resevoir.  The road to Tarryall is in Lake George (I think) off of rt 24.  Or coming from Denver; go out RT 285 over Kenosha Pass and hang a left at the little town (garage and real estate office) of Jefferson and follow the road to Tarryall.   Wade fish from shore (water is cold) with damsel fly/dragon fly/sonefly nymphs twitched just below the surface (long leader, 10′).  You can cast to feeding fish.  Fish the side that has the paved road frontage toward the dam (in between the stone jettys).  There is very good dry fly activity there after the sun goes down (say 7pm) and dark. (Native browns, stocked rainbows (12-14") and even some cutthroat).  This was my alternative to stream fishing during the runoff.  Size 12 olive buggers will sometimes work as well. There is a weed bed the parallels the shore line about 20 feet out. The fish come in looking for nymphs coming out of the weeds.         There is also the So. Platte in Deckers up Rt 167 out of Woodland Park.  Or from Denver: take Rt 285 west toward Pind Junction.  Turn left and Pine Junction and follow the road all the way down into the So Platte Canyon.  You will cross a small trestle bridge in Deckers.   I found fishing up or down from the bridge to be excellent.         South Platte River in Deckers.  Use 2 flies, RS-2 and Buckskin (both nymphs) size 18 or 20.  No larger than a 6X leader is mandatory.  Use a small floating strike indicator and place a very small shot about 6 to 8 inches from the fly.   The idea is to keep the nymph just off the bottom so adjusting the indicator for water depth is essential.  Fish places where slow water meets fast water like behind larger rocks.  The fish are there so make sure you work the section very well adjusting the indicator for depth.  Looking for flashing fish near the bottom that are feeding.  Flip the rig up stream and let the indicator float as naturally as possible.  Keep repeating until the indicator hesitates the slightest in the float.  Just raise up you rod tip and bingo! there’s a fish on.   If you use this method correctly you will get hook ups (gauranteed!!) the trick is to bring them to net on a 6X leader in fast water.  The regulations are flies and lures only. 2 fish per day over 16 inches.  Try just down stream from the trestle bridge at Deckers.  The technique is effective on all Colo streams.  The "Flies and Lies" fly shop in Deckers can also help in supplying you with flies. On a Saturday, you will not be alone.  But there are so many fish and so few fisherman that know the method and use it effectively , it has never gotten in my way.  I’d recommend getting there at 1st light (Say 5:30) fish unitl 1000 AM and then leave.  Return at say 6 Pm and fish until dark (9 PM).  I’ve found you can avoid a crowd this way.            indicator (e.g. lil corkie)              micro shot In the current, looks like this flow is right to left                               !                               !                               !                               ! Good luck

Response:

Within an hour, the South Platte. If you are willing to drive another 30 minutes there are numerous streams in the foothills thata re fishing well. Check with a shop near where you are staying for details, or feel free to reply off-line. — Ken Clark Ft. Lupton, CO

Response:

I am going to be in Denver next week and would like to know what good rivers are within one hour of driving from Denver for fly fishing?

You can also take US 285 west until you reach the city of Fairplay.  To fish the South Fork of the South Platte, just continue on 285, and you will see 2 or 3 State Wildlife Areas on the left side of the road. Water’s a bit low this time of year, but there are lots of fish in there…  Or, you can take Hwy. 9 south from Fairplay and fish the Middle Fork, particularly from Tomahawk SWA, which is hidden on the left side of the road.  The Middle Fork is a bigger stream which holds larger fish than the South Fork… good luck, — MORGAN P. BROWN                 Colorado School of Mines                 Rice University                 Phone:   (303) 215-9190 URL:     http://timna.mines.edu/~mbrown                http://www.owlnet.rice.edu/~mpbro

Response:

You can go to the South Platte at DeckersI-70 south on I-25 to the Santa Fe exit{u.s285}south from Denver to sedalia, west 27 miles. Best fishing is a mile above or below the small town of Deckers.(nice drive too!)

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You can go to the South Platte at DeckersI-70 south on I-25 to the Santa Fe exit{u.s285}south from Denver to sedalia, west 27 miles. Best fishing is a mile above or below the small town of Deckers.(nice drive too!)

It sure is a nice drive, but I don’t think anyone would want to take it nowadays, not with all the bear attacks. No trout is worth being maimed and mutilated beyond recognition, like those two fellows from Illinois. Spinoleo  

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I am going to be in Denver next week and would like to know what good rivers are within one hour of driving from Denver for fly fishing? Thanks, Luc Nocente — Luc Nocente

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I’ve heard Montauk State Park is located on the headwaters of the Current River and has access to trout flyfishing area.  Looking for more info from someone who knows this area.  I’m thinking of going there in May. Regards to all, Robert

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Try: http://www.agron.missouri.edu/flyfishing/ John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS

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You’re right. Montauk is the head of the current river, and offers considerable amount of trout water. But it’s going to be fairly crowded, even on the stretch of flies-only water. –

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I’ve heard Montauk State Park is located on the headwaters of the Current River and has access to trout flyfishing area.  Looking for more info from someone who knows this area.  I’m thinking of going there in May. Regards to all, Robert

Go! The fishing in the park is mostly corn etc, yet there are some sections for flies only. Good if you want to go fishmarket fishing. Nice place. Great place for kids. The park has a couple of places for catch and release fishing, a small stream and a lake. Current river itself is beautiful. There are a couple of access points just downstream of the park. (get a map and a sturdy vehicle) "Baptist Camp" is the one I usually go to and fish up and down stream. I have had some great days upstream under the canopy of trees. Generally it’s best to find a guide and float the river (canoe) if you want to get the most out of it due to somewhat limited access due to purposeful design. The canoe is used mainly for transportation to wade spots, although I have caught a few from the boat. I have never caught any really large fish on the Current, but normally catch quite a few in the 14 to 25 category. I used a guy by the name of Tom Shipley. Don’t know his wherebouts these days. Maybe you will get some names on this posting. Kevin Williams

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Question:

Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?

For one, the no-see-um netting doesn’t! * Todd Merriman – Software Toolz, Inc. +1 706 889 8264  * Maintainer of the * * 8030 Pooles Mill Dr., Ball Ground, GA 30107-9610      * Software          * * UUCP: …!emory!slammer!toolz!todd                    * Entrepreneur’s    * Never knock on Death’s door. Ring the bell and run away.  Death really hates that.

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done

One weekend in Colorado we were sleeping in a NF tent went the wind must have started blowing 80 mph.  It felt like it was going to lift us up in the tent.  The ends of the poles flared where a plug is inserted that fits into a grommet.   The tent was 5 years old.  I sent the poles back and got new ones FREE. A K-Mart tent would have been shredded. I’ve also broken a zipper on an OLD NF daypack.  They fixed the zipper and fixed up some fraying edges for FREE. We stuck a new NF sleeping bag in the dryer when the heat switch didn’t work on the "NO HEAT" position.  It melted a 4"x6" hole in the bag.  NF repaired it and added down for $20. And like other people said they don’t leak. I use gear hard and will only buy from NF and similar companies. Mort

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I am testing my posting capabilities.

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done One weekend in Colorado we were sleeping in a NF tent went the wind must have started blowing 80 mph.  It felt like it was going to lift us up in the tent.  The ends of the poles flared where a plug is inserted that fits into a grommet.  

I spent a week on the outer banks ( North Carolina ) with a ‘kmart’ type dome tent.  One night a storm hit with winds in the 40-60 mph range.  All night long I heard car doors slamming and vehicles leaving,  the tent flexed and got a little water in it but withstood the storm.  In the morning there were 3 other campers left in the campground ( about 30 people left during the night ).  However years later while airing the tent in my backyard one corner of the fly came loose ( the elastic cord was shot by then ) and my dog ( a puppy then ) proceded to destroy the tent.   bob

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One night a storm hit with winds in the 40-60 mph range.  All night long I heard car doors slamming and vehicles leaving,  the tent flexed and got a little water in it but withstood the storm.  In the morning there were 3 other campers left in the campground ( about 30 people left during the night ).

It was probably the people, not their tents, that broke down. — -Wayne Trzyna

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 Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done  serious backcountry camping (yet), but I’ve camped out in some fairly  cold places.  On my last cross-country trip, I woke up in the morning  when the temperature was freezing, but I’d been perfectly warm in my  $40 K-mart tent and my $30 Coleman rectangular sleeping bag.    lesson one: You get what you pay for.    The main reason a NF tent cost more is the quality of the materials    used. The poles are 7075 aircraft alluminium not cheap fiberglass    that will snap on you. The biggest part of the cost is the poles.    Survival factor: If my life is on the line in a blizzard at 12,000    feet for four days I dont think I want to trust a $40.00 tent, if it    fails you die. If you don’t venture into these parts then a K-Mart    tent is fine.    One other reason is that The North Face will stand by it’s products    for life. Even if you muck it up yourself they will fix it for a small    charge.    One tent failure in dangerous weather will teach you this lesson,    trust me, I’ve been there…. Certified Gearhead:            Tim

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done serious backcountry camping (yet), but I’ve camped out in some fairly cold places.  On my last cross-country trip, I woke up in the morning when the temperature was freezing, but I’d been perfectly warm in my $40 K-mart tent and my $30 Coleman rectangular sleeping bag. Granted, I got soaked when it rained the next day, but I hadn’t put on the rainfly. —                 -ed falk, sun microsystems         "Towards the end, the smell of their air began to change"

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?   Well, I owned a $40 tent from a large department store not unlike K-mart, and now own a $150 tent from a chain not unlike North Face. The big differents  is rain. The 40 buck tent leaked even with the rainfly.  So far not one drop has ever gotten into the $150 tent.

I have a dome tent that I bought on sale from JC Penny for $35.  It’s rain fly does cover the whole tent.  I’ve seam-sealed it and it is reasonably water proof from above.  The floor isn’t — I learned the hard way about that.  I put a tarp down under the tent that was bigger than the tent and it channeled water under the tent that saoked through and into my sleeping bag. But I’ve been in nasty storms and it’s held out well.  My wife has made a winter-season fly with a vestibule for the tent, altho’ it wouldn’t hold up with a lot of snow on it. Is it as good as a North Face?  Of course not.  But it works for me, holds my wife, myself, our dog and our boots and not much else.  And it fit our budget. — Are you thinking of telephones and managers and where you got to be at noon?

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Here is the history of a K-mart tent, to illustrate its strengths and weaknesses:    It was made in Tiawan.  $50 in the early 70’s.  Made of a single layer of coated nylon (no rain fly).  A "wall tent" design; think of an old-fashioned pup tent with vertical sides underneath.  A big tent, comfortable for three. Advantages: I could afford it.  Lots of room. Only four pounds! Disadvantages: it took fourteen stakes and eight guy lines to set the damn thing up.  A pain at best, and sometimes it was impossible to find a large and soft enough site for it.  Surprisingly, neither leakage nor condensation were a problem. I used this thing on many hard-core wilderness trips over many years.  Was never so foolish as to use it above timberline or in winter, of course. Finally – -One year, way back in the Wind Rivers, a heavy windstorm came up and tore out the grommet supporting one pole.  Spent a wild couple of hours outside holding the thing up while a companion sewed it back together with fishing leader. -Next year, camped in the Snake River Plain on the way to the Cariboos.  A    _really_ _heavy_ rain came up, and the tent leaked and finally collapsed in the middle of the night.  Spent the night in the truck, and the next day in Idaho Falls drying our gear and shopping for a big tarp to use as a rain fly; the Cariboos are rain forest!  A big tarp rigged over the tent worked great on what became the rainiest trip I’ve ever taken,  but made pitching camp a big job.  And wouldn’t have worked in a heavy wind. – Two years after that, camped in a heavy rain near Stowe, Vermont. Packed the tent wet and didn’t get around to drying it for a week.  It turned out that the zippers, stake loops, etc. were cotton, and they all fell apart. I sadly trashed it and sewed up a Frostline Kodiak. _That_ is the difference between North Face and K-Mart. (BTW I now use a North Face Westwind. Damn good tent.)                         Chuck Smythe

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| Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done | serious backcountry camping (yet), but I’ve camped out in some fairly | cold places.  On my last cross-country trip, I woke up in the morning | when the temperature was freezing, but I’d been perfectly warm in my | $40 K-mart tent and my $30 Coleman rectangular sleeping bag. | | Granted, I got soaked when it rained the next day, but I hadn’t put on | the rainfly. | | — |           -ed falk, sun microsystems |   "Towards the end, the smell of their air began to change" (1) Weight, (2) Durability, (3) Service. The $40 K-Mart tent is going to be heavier, and the seams may not be sewn as solidly.  There may be more seams than optimal (i.e. the tent may be optimized for ease of production, which may not necessarily be optimal for rough conditions).  Finally, if something ever goes wrong with a North Face, Sierra Designs, Walrus, (or whatever) tent, you just bring it back to the store.  They’ll send it back to the manufacturer to fix it.  Doesn’t matter how old the tent is (as long as it doesn’t look like a bear chewed it). (Actually, this last is from hearsay.  I’ve only experienced their customer service in regards to a backpack; I’ve heard about their customer service with respect to sleeping bags, and I’m extrapolating to tents). As for the sleeping bag:  Frankly, you must be a warm sleeper.  My $30 Coleman rectangular bag is *barely* adequate as a comforter.  It has at most 1.5" of loft; it’s heavy; it won’t squoosh down into a small package; it’s not particularly windproof or water resistant (though the fill fiber is synthetic).  (Its weight is maybe 7 or 8 lbs, though that’s a guess.  My mummy bag weighs under 3 lbs, has 6" of loft, and is *highly* wind and water resistant.  Of course, I do feel like a sardine when I sleep in my mummy bag). — Hy

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  lesson one: You get what you pay for.   The main reason a NF tent cost more is the quality of the materials   used. The poles are 7075 aircraft alluminium not cheap fiberglass   that will snap on you. The biggest part of the cost is the poles.   Survival factor: If my life is on the line in a blizzard at 12,000   feet for four days I dont think I want to trust a $40.00 tent, if it   fails you die. If you don’t venture into these parts then a K-Mart   tent is fine.   One tent failure in dangerous weather will teach you this lesson,   trust me, I’ve been there….

  I agree completely. The main difference between NF (or any other quality manufacturer) is the quality of the materials and the quality of the work. Good gear lasts forever (practically) if you take care of it. Cheap gear always breaks when you least want it to. Cheap tents leak more, poles break easier, grommets pull out, seam stitching tears out, etc… When I used to be a full-time guide, I saw more trips ruined by clients bringing cheap gear and having it break down. I understand that $$$ is always a consideration but I believe that you should always buy the best gear you can afford. Even a cheap tent by a good brand is better than going to Kmart, or whereever. I’d recommend renting good gear instead of buying the cheap stuff. Even if your’re not at 12,000 ft in a blizzard, the goal is to have FUN, which is impossible if you gear fails. RIPS (Raster Image Processing Systems)           uunet!solbourne.com!rips!rob 4665 Nautilus Court South                    << KERNAL: Panic, core dumped Boulder, CO 80301                         Darkstar crashes, pouring its light (303) 530-2910                              into ashes, reason tatters, …

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?

The other suggestions and answers cover the subject pretty well, so I will only add this: The cheap tent can be upgraded, providing it handles the basics as it is. Work it over with the best seam sealer you can get. Replace those funky heavy fiberglass poles with aluminum poles cut to the proper size. I would only use it for summer camping and weekend fair-weather backpacking. I did the above upgrading to an old $50 two man dome tent, and it works fine. The poles I got at REI in a bin used for tent returns. The tent is much liter now, and easy to backpack on those overnighters. For longer trips I use my North Face Tadpole NHP, which I am very pleased with. One reason to add to the other reasons to go with a more expensive (= durable) tent, is the weight. The Tadpole is 4 pounds, and packs down to a very small size, not to mention a breeze to put up, something to be thankful in a sudden rain shower or snow shower, I know. Between the 2 to 3 pounds the down bag saves me, and the three pounds the tent saves me, I have 5 pounds less to carry: pick up a 5 pound weight, and you will see it is nothing to sneeze at. Add that to the other areas you can trim weight, and it begins to add up. Unfortunately, there is a correlation between quality durable lightweight equipment and its cost… | "Bully! Bully!" – T. Roosevelt with John Muir at Glacier Point       | | "The mountains are calling me, and I must go."   John Muir           | |"Man has got astray out of his orbit, or away from the ends for which | | he was created." John Muir.                                          |

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"What’s the difference between a North Face tent and a K-Mart ten..besides price?"

Well, I’ve got a Eureka Timberline (4-person), a $15 K-Mart 2 man and a Sierra Designs Flash Cliplight.  I can’t talk about North Face per se, but I can give some general comparisons. The real cheap tents have a single non-breathing roof.  Unless you have very dry weather, you get condensation, even with the "window" open. There is no covered overhang, so when it rains, you have to "close it up" and you get more condensation. The fabric is lightweight and not "ripstop".  That means if a tear starts it is more likely to continue than in a better made tent. Also, the seems are not done as well and are not as strong.  For a single overnight in a reasonable situation, its probably okay. But I wouldn’t want to have to depend on it for my life in a week long trip. OTOH, the cheap tents are often lightweight.  That’s nice for carrying.  And you don’t have a big investment so you don’t have to worry about protecting it (I ususally save more weight by not using a ground cloth, which I do use with my better tents.) IMO, the cheap tents are not too bad for simple trips in mild conditions.  But I wouldn’t depend on one for a week long trip. Ken

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Serious question; what’s the difference besides price?  I’ve never done serious backcountry camping (yet), but I’ve camped out in some fairly cold places.  On my last cross-country trip, I woke up in the morning when the temperature was freezing, but I’d been perfectly warm in my $40 K-mart tent and my $30 Coleman rectangular sleeping bag. Granted, I got soaked when it rained the next day, but I hadn’t put on the rainfly.

Well, I owned a $40 tent from a large department store not unlike K-mart, and now own a $150 tent from a chain not unlike North Face. The big differents  is rain. The 40 buck tent leaked even with the rainfly.  So far not one drop has ever gotten into the $150 tent. But, the experience with the $40 really helped me in figuring out what makes a good rain proof tent.  And I really learn the value of seam sealers.  My $40 tent I didn’t use any seam sealer.  The $150 tent I used 2 bottles.  Would the $40 tent have leaked as much if I’d sealed it?  Probably.  The rain fly  on the $40 didn’t cover the tent completely.  So, as seen from above, parts of the tent were exposed.  I made sure the rain fly on the $150 tent completely covered the tent (actual a few places stick out).   Also, the seams that joined the floor and walls at ground level on the $40 tent. On the $150 tent, the floor sort of extents up and becomes the wall for 6 inches, so the wall/floor seam is 6 inches high and under the rain fly. HOMEBREW NAKED!                                  UUCP: …!ames!watson

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