Question:

BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies? I read somewhere that they emit a mild toxin into the water which repels the fish.  They hang out in groups because then there is a higher concentration of the toxin, providing a higher level of safety.

Oh, she’s talking about water striders! I thought she was talking about midges. Kevin’s right. Water striders are toxic. I remember last year at the San Juan Clave there were lots of midges in the eddies and other slackwater, but the fish were ignoring them. I wondered why, and still do. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies? I read somewhere that they emit a mild toxin into the water which repels the fish.  They hang out in groups because then there is a higher concentration of the toxin, providing a higher level of safety.

Thank you.  That sounds right.  I know they’re not fast, as I’ve always been easily able to hand catch one.   — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

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BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies?  

I understood that these were just not a favorite food of trout…being that they’re as hard as peanuts.  In NJ, those and skating spiders are not eaten by trout in any waters that I know of.

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One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable?

I’m loving trying to do it for drys or surface lures, but I can’t bring myself to feel that anything but a really dead bug will drift fairly freely, and even that bug will bounce into and off of things, including the bottom if using an under surface fly / lure. BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies?  I don’t see them much in water where other varieties of decent sized game fish are around or else they stay so shallow that nothing big can get them.  Is it the Monarch butterfly sort of thing in the water? — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable? I’m loving trying to do it for drys or surface lures, but I can’t bring myself to feel that anything but a really dead bug will drift fairly freely, and even that bug will bounce into and off of things, including the bottom if using an under surface fly / lure.

I kind of hate to post this, because I’m such a "fucking putz" at presenting nymphs compared to people like Willi and Bruce, but here’s my understanding of the theory. There’s something called the "turnover point." When you cast your nymph out, in the normal scheme of things, you should try to get your indicator upstream of the nymph. The current on the surface carries the indicator downstream faster than the deep-drifting nymph. Upstream mends can help, but you risk pulling the fly right out of the trouts’ mouths. There is a point — the "turnover" point — when the nymph is just below the indicator. This is when it’s doing its best rendition of a "dead drift." If you know where the fish are, try to make that the turnover point. BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies?  I don’t see them much in water where other varieties of decent sized game fish are around or else they stay so shallow that nothing big can get them.  Is it the Monarch butterfly sort of thing in the water?

Good question. I think it’s because trout are wary. They don’t want to expose themselves to predators in shallow water when there’s plenty of stuff to eat in safer places. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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There is a point — the "turnover" point — when the nymph is just below the indicator. This is when it’s doing its best rendition of a "dead drift." If you know where the fish are, try to make that the turnover

point. According to Borger, the indicator is more of a drift indicator than strike indicator.  He says if your indicator is drifting as fast as the surface current and your nymph is near the bottom, your nymph is probably dragging. A split shot will help slow it down.  I suppose this would be past the "turnover point" you describe.

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According to Borger, the indicator is more of a drift indicator than strike indicator.  He says if your indicator is drifting as fast as the surface current and your nymph is near the bottom, your nymph is probably dragging. A split shot will help slow it down.  I suppose this would be past the "turnover point" you describe.

Even using the most thought out or "best" combination of weight, leader length etc. there will usually only be a small portion of your drift where the fly is truly approaching a dragfree drift. Like Steve said, you want to try and have this "good" part of the drift in the area that you think holds fish. The deeper the water, overall, the more pronounced this is. You can get more instances of a dragfree drift through mending, but because of the varied currents, it impossible to get a dragfree drift throughout the drift. It’s often difficult to get a dragfree drift with a dry fly. With a dry you can see what’s going on and with a dry, you’re essentially only dealing with a flat plane or two dimensions. With a sunken nymph, in most situations, you have to make inferences about what’s going on with your fly and you’re dealing with three dimensions. MUCH more difficult but fortunately for us, I think the fish are more tolerant of drag with a nymph. Willi

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BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies?

Probably because they are too difficult for the trout to catch. They would experience a net loss in calories because of the energy expended in trying to catch them. Game fish are instinctively aware of the energy/food value relationship, and tend to feed accordingly. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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With a sunken nymph, in most situations, you have to make inferences about what’s going on with your fly and you’re dealing with three dimensions. MUCH more difficult but fortunately for us, I think the fish are more tolerant of drag with a nymph.

        and i suspect that this is because many of the insects we are attempting to imitate with nymphs are alive, and move upwards and from side to side as they attempt to reach the surface, as opposed to the nearly motionless float of duns and spinners. wayno (lifelong reader of field&stream)

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BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies?

I read somewhere that they emit a mild toxin into the water which repels the fish.  They hang out in groups because then there is a higher concentration of the toxin, providing a higher level of safety. Kevin — Check out the Pike Clave Website: <http://www.misu.nodak.edu/~vang/PikeClave/

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries       95% Nymphs       95% Wets       40% Streamers      10% Your percentage for nymphs is surprising to me.  Do you usually let them swing across at the end of the dragfree part of the drift?  I take many fish on nymphs, especially BH PTs, on the rising part of the swing–almost as many as when I fish traditional wets (soft hackles, etc.) this way.

    What I really meant to say was, 95% of the time I nymph I *really* try for a dead drift. The other 5% of the time is when I’m moving (stumbling) upstream, dragging the thing behind me, and some inconsiderate trout bites it.

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Willi asks: What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for:

 Dries (over 90)  Nymphs ( not sure, probably most; 75?)  Wets (less than 10)  Streamers (less than 5) — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries Nymphs Wets Streamers My estimates: Dries: 90 Nymphs: 80 Wets: 50 Streamers: 20

Dries: definitely in the 90+% range during most mayfly hatches. During stonefly hatches, however, or even when I fish a hopper during terrestrial season, I twitch my fly when it’s drifting. Granted, I attempt for it to be subtle, and only a movement every couple of feet or so, but a lot of the hits come right at the twitch. Nymphs: I’d like to think that ALL my fish hit during drag free drift but I think that’s impossible to do all the time. I’d rank it there around 75%. Wets: When I fish them, which isn’t that often, they are moving for sure. 25%. Streamers: Practically all my fish come during the strip or the swing. I do pick up fish occasionally during a drag-free drift but I don’t fish a streamer that often that way. 10% — Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

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Dries: definitely in the 90+% range during most mayfly hatches. During stonefly hatches, however, or even when I fish a hopper during terrestrial season, I twitch my fly when it’s drifting. Granted, I attempt for it to be subtle, and only a movement every couple of feet or so, but a lot of the hits come right at the twitch.

I concur with this. Another "action" technique I especially like is skittering a caddis imitation through shallow, pocket water. Not sure if it is more effective than just a drag free drift but it sure produces some exciting takes. Streamers: Practically all my fish come during the strip or the swing. I do pick up fish occasionally during a drag-free drift but I don’t fish a streamer that often that way. 10%

I’m not a very able streamer fisherman but I frequently cast up and across with a streamer and let it drift down pretty much drag free to allow it to sink. I have taken some fish during this "drag free" part of the drift. Peter? Willi

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Dries: definitely in the 90+% range during most mayfly hatches. During stonefly hatches, however, or even when I fish a hopper during terrestrial season, I twitch my fly when it’s drifting. Granted, I attempt for it to be subtle, and only a movement every couple of feet or so, but a lot of the hits come right at the twitch. I concur with this. Another "action" technique I especially like is skittering a caddis imitation through shallow, pocket water. Not sure if it is more effective than just a drag free drift but it sure produces some exciting takes.

A very fun hatch on the Clark Fork is a #14 olive caddis, a ‘green rock worm’, IIRC. A free-living caddis. Use a LaFontaine-style (God rest his soul) emerging caddis fished just under the surface film down and across or just straight down. If the fly is making a ‘V’ they don’t seem to want it. But if you get it to still be twitching & dragging, literally just under the surface, they wack it pretty hard. There is a particular hole on the CF that really can only best be fished with an almost straight down approach with this method, but right at dusk on a mid-July evening… oh boy! Streamers: Practically all my fish come during the strip or the swing. I do pick up fish occasionally during a drag-free drift but I don’t fish a streamer that often that way. 10% I’m not a very able streamer fisherman but I frequently cast up and across with a streamer and let it drift down pretty much drag free to allow it to sink. I have taken some fish during this "drag free" part of the drift. Peter?

I must amend to my streamer statement above that most of my streamer fishing is done from a boat. With a good oarsman at the helm, you can get some amazingly good presentations that can cover a lot of good water. — Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dries: definitely in the 90+% range during most mayfly hatches. During stonefly hatches, however, or even when I fish a hopper during terrestrial season, I twitch my fly when it’s drifting. Granted, I attempt for it to be subtle, and only a movement every couple of feet or so, but a lot of the hits come right at the twitch. I concur with this. Another "action" technique I especially like is skittering a caddis imitation through shallow, pocket water. Not sure if it is more effective than just a drag free drift but it sure produces some exciting takes. Streamers: Practically all my fish come during the strip or the swing. I do pick up fish occasionally during a drag-free drift but I don’t fish a streamer that often that way. 10% I’m not a very able streamer fisherman but I frequently cast up and across with a streamer and let it drift down pretty much drag free to allow it to sink. I have taken some fish during this "drag free" part of the drift. Peter? Willi

I rarely fish streamers on the dead drift though it can be a useful imitation of a dead or dying minnow with the right pattern.  I tried one day for steelhead using a small, weighted streamer on the dead drift and ended up with a bunch of bugle trout.  They obviously feed on the dead.  I’ve also had carp and smallies suck in streamers when I’ve been counting the fly down on the sink, while fishing in still water. I know that you know this Willi, but as a general comment  . . . About drag for dries, nymphs, and wets – I try to get the situation right for the insect that’s active.  One example – on Whiteman’s Creek, it was Hendrickson time but there was nothing in the air.  I was dead drifting a H. nymph by a log jam in fairly deep water and was batting a fat zero.  Then I remembered that Hendrickson nymphs migrate to shallow, slow water to hatch.  I was standing on the inside of a bend in shallow, slow water so I slowly retrieved my H. nymph along the bottom toward me and picked up a 12" rainbow on the first try.  A few more casts picked up some more fish.   Some mayfly nymphs and caddis pupae are very active swimmers and some mayfly emergers change into adult form a foot or so below the surface before swimming up with their wings (e.g. Dark Hendricksons.)  Many caddis do the same and with some species, the gas they generate causes them to rocket up.  As caddis have micro hairs on their wings they can fly off immediately on emergence whereas mayflies usually need to dry their wings first resulting in lots of fluttering.  Some caddis skitter across the surface before flying off and a few stillwater caddis will skate on the surface all the way to the shore.  When egg laying, some caddis and mayflies dap their eggs on the surface while other caddis and mayflies dive, penetrating the meniscus and laying their eggs on the bottom before swimming back up and flying off (or dying in the mayfly case.)  Small trout will often leap out of the water after dapping egg layers while others actively chase the divers. None of this behaviour can be imitated by a dead drift. Moral:  Know the behaviour of the bug.  Drag is not always your enemy – especially when it’s deliberate. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable? What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries Nymphs Wets Streamers My estimates: Dries: 90 Nymphs: 80 Wets: 50 Streamers: 20 Willi

Response:

One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable? What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries … My estimates: Dries: 90

When people talk about "educated" fish, I think recognizing a dragfree drift is the piscine equivalent of the PhD. I also think it’s highly dependent on the particular watershed. Some places, relatively sterile mountain streams for instance, you can catch a fish with just about any sort of drift at all. On a heavily fished spring creek I’d say that the percentage of fish I take with a dragfree drift is for all intents and purposes 100%. — Ken Fortenberry

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One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable?

Well, IMO, the term "drag free" drift is the wrong term to use for _teaching_ beginners, although _presenting_ in such fashion, is, to me, different than _fishing_ a fly, even if the take occurs within a second or two of presentation.  What is important as to _fishing_ is to not appear so unnatural as to either confuse, and therefore, "spook," a fish or simply telegraph that an offering isn’t food. Granted, this often means no unnatural drag, which is often "drag free" and likely, most experienced fishers know this and use the term "drag free" as a catch-all term.  But I think it does beginners a disservice to teach absolutes (take "the wrist must always be locked or you are casting improperly" training many get, for example) as being an absolute success/failure type of situation. What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: My estimates: Dries: 90 Nymphs: 80 Wets: 50 Streamers: 20

Hmm…I thought a little about it, and I can’t come up with any numbers beyond mere WAGs.  Maybe to my detriment, I don’t seem to take note of this type of data in such a way to be able to quantify it. I’m not suggesting that doing so is improper, just that I don’t.  Or maybe I do take subconscious note, but it has become one of those "I don’t know why I do it that way, I just do" things.   But if forced to make a WAG, I’d say dries, about like your number, wets, about 80-90, and streamers, upwards of 0, but less than 10 <G (simply due to the way I <mostly fish streamers, they wouldn’t be doing much "drifting," drag-free or otherwise, as I take your meaning of "drifting.") TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Willi

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One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable? What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries  

have to say 99%  Worked dries are a minor tactic for me. Nymphs  

couldn’t possibly tell with the deep nymphs, but certainly to shallow sighted fish 100% Wets

70% Streamers

10% Steve

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What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries       95% Nymphs       95% Wets       40% Streamers

     10%

Response:

What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries       95% Nymphs       95% Wets       40% Streamers      10%

Your percentage for nymphs is surprising to me.  Do you usually let them swing across at the end of the dragfree part of the drift?  I take many fish on nymphs, especially BH PTs, on the rising part of the swing–almost as many as when I fish traditional wets (soft hackles, etc.) this way.   JR

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One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable? My estimates: Nymphs: 80

The more I think about nymphing, the harder it is to believe that a drag free drift happens very often.  Think how difficult it can be with dry flies – in 2 dimensions.  Nymphing is in 3 dimensions, so the problems you have with a dry fly drift are magnified.  Finally, add in the fact that the water slows near the bottom of the river where we often fish nymphs, and it’s a wonder we ever catch a fish. I conclude 2 things: – we are not always getting a drag free drift, but many nymphs do move around under water under their own power.  Sometimes drag simulates this. – there are so many swirling currents in "mixed water" (near bottom rocks and obstructions), that even the trout can’t always detect drag underwater.  Even natural nymphs move in randomly changing ways in some of the "micro currents". There must be places where the flow is constant and trout can detect drag, but there must be places where it’s not, too.  You can probably convince yourself of this by tossing little things into turbulent water several times and watching how they drift differently each time.

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One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable?

An interesting question, and one I have no idea of the answer.   One thing RDean said tweaked my though process however, and I began thinking not in terms of drag, but time as measurement.   I’m actually amazed at how many of the fish I catch hit the fly within a couple seconds of it hitting the water.   That probably means I suck at drag free drift.   I’m also amazed at how fast the fish can get there.   Unless I’m dropping it right on his nose, those guys really cover some ground, so to speak.   On occasions where flows are simple enough, I do catch some farther down the drift, but generally if I don’t have a take in the first 5 sec., I’m not going to get one. Joe F.

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Question:

I’m looking for any advice/options on hiring a guide to fly fish in the Cook Islands.  Any fishing stories out there, or good/bad information on guides in the Cooks?  I’ll be there in April 2001.

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I’m looking for any advice/options on hiring a guide to fly fish in the Cook Islands.  Any fishing stories out there, or good/bad information on guides in the Cooks?  I’ll be there in April 2001.

I found this on the Web: http://www.ck/fishing.htm is ROFF’s premier expert on flyfishing in the South Pacific. His web site URL is http://fishing.ifrance.com/fishing/ — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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For what its worth (and it ain’t worth much), several years ago I spent a couple of days on Aitutaki. Unfortunately the day I flew in we were soon followed by a hell of a storm and the lagoon turned into wind tossed milk. Despite the fact that we found no fish it is one of the loveliest places I have ever seen and well worth the visit. When you are doing your search this is one island worth keeping in mind. Hope you enjoy the trip. Vaughan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking for any advice/options on hiring a guide to fly fish in the Cook Islands.  Any fishing stories out there, or good/bad information on guides in the Cooks?  I’ll be there in April 2001. I found this on the Web: http://www.ck/fishing.htm is ROFF’s premier expert on flyfishing in the South Pacific. His web site URL is http://fishing.ifrance.com/fishing/ — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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Question:

         I am just starting to learn how to fly fish.  I am currently using my friends equipment.  As I was looking around for my own equipment,  I quickly realized it is not very cheap.  If any one has any older equipment sitting around collecting dust,  I would appreciate it if you would either sell it to me very cheap or give me it to me please. I would be more than happy to pay for all shipping costs.  Please E-mail for my address. Thank you  Scott    

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        I am just starting to learn how to fly fish.  I am currently using my friends equipment.  As I was looking around for my own equipment,  I quickly realized it is not very cheap.  If any one has any older equipment sitting around collecting dust,  I would appreciate it if you would either sell it to me very cheap or give me it to me please. I would be more than happy to pay for all shipping costs.  Please E-mail for my address. Thank you Scott    

Wait till the clave is over.  There are likely going to be a number of multi-piece rods (formerly two piece) that will be on the market – real cheap. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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         I am just starting to learn how to fly fish.  I am currently using my friends equipment.  As I was looking around for my own equipment,  I quickly realized it is not very cheap.  If any one has any older equipment sitting around collecting dust,  I would appreciate it if you would either sell it to me very cheap or give me it to me please. I would be more than happy to pay for all shipping costs.  Please E-mail for my address.

Get a Cabela’s catalog. If you can’t afford their stuff you need to find another hobby, — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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Get a Cabela’s catalog. If you can’t afford their stuff you need to find another hobby,

Good advice.  You would do that by going to http://www.cabelas.com  You should be able to get started for less than $100, and it’s not bad stuff.  You might try e-bay too.  I’m sure there’s used stuff out there, but it’s hard to find. — Levi "So long, and thanks for all the fish."

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Good advice.  You would do that by going to http://www.cabelas.com  You should be able to get started for less than $100, and it’s not bad stuff.  You might try e-bay too.  I’m sure there’s used stuff out there, but it’s hard to find.

Hard to find?  Nah, there are 272 fly rods for sale on ebay right now.  This one’s about to end, $13.50. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320507767 Regards, Jeff

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         I am just starting to learn how to fly fish.  I am currently using my friends equipment.  As I was looking around for my own equipment,  I quickly realized it is not very cheap.  If any one has any older equipment sitting around collecting dust,  I would appreciate it if you would either sell it to me very cheap or give me it to me please. I would be more than happy to pay for all shipping costs.  Please E-mail for my address.

I started out with a Martin outfit from Wal-Mart a few years ago.  It wasn’t the best, but for just starting out for something like $35.00 you get a 3 piece rod, a reel with backing, and fly line.  You have to buy some leaders and your flies to start, but what the hell for under 50 bucks you can be fly fishing.  Every couple of years I up date and get a new rod and reel set up…come to think about I feel I’m due again  Problem is It seems to keep getting more and more expensive… I just seen a nice 4 weight split bamboo rod at the shop selling for $500 and the reel was around $250….I don’t think the wife will go for this set up though.  I guess I’ll dream for just a little long for now…. anyone have the winning numbers for tonight’s lottery ahead of time? –Randy

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Question:

finer tippets and different flies till ya get it figured out…..have the local shop recommend a fly or two.

And that would be Tulpehocken Creek Outfitters in West Reading.   Helpful, good guys in my limited experience there.    (On W. Penn Ave.?  Tom?) Joe F.

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One of the biggest problems i see are the fish going right up to the fly and kind of nosing it and turning around.  Well  not to keep yammering on and on i’ll close  here and thanks in advance for any and all info. minkaz

As a newbie you will want to get some basics down and have confidence they are working for you.  I suggest you switch to a #14 Royal Wulff dry on a 5X tippet.  If you are using a tapered leader get one which goes down to 5X.  IF you have plenty of casting room get your line into the air and false cast letting out a little line as you go until you get 30 ft. or so out then lay it on the water.  Add power to your strokes as you add line.  Finesse and control will come with practice. Make sure to hold the line in your opposit hand and running over your rod hand index finger.  Watch the fly and at the strike set the hook with the LINE hand and not the rod.  Tightening up on the rod with the index finger at the same time also gives you a quicker set response. DO NOT TAKE YOUR EYES OFF THE FLY NOR DROP THE LINE!  This is important for a newbie to get used to the strike response. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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: Are you hauling or just casting?  If you’re double hauling and only getting 20 : feet, you do have a problem.  If you are just "flipping" the line, learn to : haul. To get past 20′ you *do not* need to learn to haul!

Um, I didn’t say you did, _but_ to get (long) distance, you *do* need to learn to haul, and it especially important with "basic" equipment (one can do a lot of things if one has no regard for equipment), so they may as well learn now.  That said, the poster gave very little info, but _seemed_ to want distance – "Any tips on increasing distance?"  IMO, yes – learn to haul.  If you disagree, you’re wrong, but I’ll agree to disagree.  Also, learning to haul will, IMO, help with casting/timing/"feeling" in an all-around fashion, but that _is_ JMO. TC, R

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Goldens?  In NE PA?  Um……no, I don’t think so.  You might want to have another look at your field guide. The fish commission here has an excellent stocking program.. They release 50 or 60 goldens in this area as trophy fish each year.  It is true however that we have no natural goldens.

Wow this guy’s pretty good – way to keep your cool minkaz. I’m more concerned with getting a good presentation at this point than distance.

Good man! Regards, Jeff

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I’m was casting about 20 ‘ of fly line.

So that’s roughly a 30′ cast. You can catch a lot of fish with that, as long as the surface isn’t real smooth or the trout wary. Regards, Jeff

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Um, I didn’t say you did, _but_ to get (long) distance, you *do* need to learn to haul, and it especially important with "basic" equipment (one can do a lot of things if one has no regard for equipment), so they may as well learn now.  That said, the poster gave very little info, but _seemed_ to want distance – "Any tips on increasing distance?"  IMO, yes – learn to haul.  If you disagree, you’re wrong, but I’ll agree to disagree.  Also, learning to haul will, IMO, help with casting/timing/"feeling" in an all-around fashion, but that _is_ JMO.

A cast of 30 feet is more than adequate in most stream situations, especially when fishing dries like the gentleman was describing. ALL anglers can control drag and make more accurate presentations and cast at shorter distances. Few, even experienced anglers, can really control drag and presentation on a stream at distances over this.  Instead of trying for more distance, my advice would be to first learn to: cast accurately within this 30′ distance stalk and wade carefully control drag make a "delicate" presentation control the line make reasonable fly selections Willi

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Are you hauling or just casting?  If you’re double hauling and only getting 20 : feet, you do have a problem.  If you are just "flipping" the line, learn to : haul. To get past 20′ you *do not* need to learn to haul! Um, I didn’t say you did, _but_ to get (long) distance, you *do* need to learn to haul, and it especially important with "basic" equipment (one can do a lot of things if one has no regard for equipment), so they may as well learn now.  That said, the poster gave very little info, but _seemed_ to want distance – "Any tips on increasing distance?"  IMO, yes – learn to haul.  If you disagree, you’re wrong, but I’ll agree to disagree.  Also, learning to haul will, IMO, help with casting/timing/"feeling" in an all-around fashion, but that _is_ JMO. TC, R

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Um, I didn’t say you did, _but_ to get (long) distance, you *do* need to learn to haul, and it especially important with "basic" equipment (one can do a lot of things if one has no regard for equipment), so they may as well learn now.  That said, the poster gave very little info, but _seemed_ to want distance – "Any tips on increasing distance?"  IMO, yes – learn to haul.  If you disagree, you’re wrong, but I’ll agree to disagree.  Also, learning to haul will, IMO, help with casting/timing/"feeling" in an all-around fashion, but that _is_ JMO. A cast of 30 feet is more than adequate in most stream situations, especially when fishing dries like the gentleman was describing. ALL anglers can control drag and make more accurate presentations and cast at shorter distances. Few, even experienced anglers, can really control drag and presentation on a stream at distances over this.  Instead of trying for more distance, my advice would be to first learn to: cast accurately within this 30′ distance stalk and wade carefully control drag make a "delicate" presentation control the line make reasonable fly selections

Agreed, somewhat.  Originally, I was simply addressing the distance question, but I do think learning to haul is a needed skill.  I will admit I may have being somewhat presumptive, but I did think by "distance" the poster meant more than going from 20 feet to 30 feet.  Usually when someone on ROFF (especially newbies) brings up distance, they seem to mean "casting tourney" distances, and, IMO, even the lower end of that range is nearly *impossible* (I’d say *_IMPOSSIBLE_*, but I never say that…<G) without a double haul, especially with an novice and a fishing-built rod, much less a vet and a tournament-built rod (which is why they are/were two different rods).  If you care, look up some of my posts for my opinions on the "gotta go long" thinking. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Willi

Response:

Nahhhh.  You go JeffC.  Just let us know how it works out

Hmm, half the shit I get is for complaining to much and not contributing too discussions actually related too fly fishing.  Half the shit I get is for adding to much too fly fishing discussions.  The other half of the shit I get is for being a general wiseass, jackass, or just plane pimply white ass.  I’m sure you’ll understand if I just post what I want to — Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

Response:

As a newbie you will want to get some basics down and have confidence they are working for you.  I suggest you switch to a #14 Royal Wulff dry on a 5X tippet.

But wouldn’t you want to know what kind of water he’s fishing before recommending a fly like that?  All we know so far as that where he’s fishing is: "small creek about 15 feet across.  I found a nice pool that’s is really close to crysal clear."  It could be a smooth surfaced, clear spring creek.  We also know he’s getting a lot of refusals.  Would you recommend the same or different fly for that? — Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

Response:

We also know he’s getting a lot of refusals.

Correction – he’s getting rises but not hooking them – don’t know if they are refusals or not. — Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

Response:

(uninformed snipped) Regards, Jeff

On Eastern streams the RW is an excellent all-a-round searching pattern well suited for small stream use.  His objective here is to "learn the methodology" and take a few fish.  He will get enough takers on the size and fly type recommended to develop the striking technique, have a fly visible enough to watch on the surface to develop his line handling techniques, and a "close enough" match to many hatches in the region this time of year.  Entomology, selective line handling, water reading, and casting improvement will be developed over time with on-water practice. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

As a newbie you will want to get some basics down and have confidence they are working for you.  I suggest you switch to a #14 Royal Wulff dry on a 5X tippet. But wouldn’t you want to know what kind of water he’s fishing before recommending a fly like that

    i don’t give a damn if you are fishing the lava flow in hawaii, or the runoff from victoria falls.  if there’s a trout in the water, he will come about as close to hitting a rw as anything else. wayno

Response:

Are you casting 20 feet between you and the fly, or 20 feet of flyline? It may not be that you’re jumping the gun, but of course it might  They may be rising to it but not actually taking it in their mouths.  You could try a more sparsely tied fly (for example a thorax or no hackle instead of a Wullf style, if the water is fairly flat).  Or you could just try a size or 2 smaller.  Or you could try a longer, lighter tippet. Regards, Jeff

Response:

You MAY be setting the hook to fast.  Then again you may not be fast enough.  Fish will spit anything that doesn’t feel right.  Timing is critical. If you’re getting fish to rise to your fly you don’t need to cast any further.  Don’t worry about it. Distance will come with practice. Goldens?  In NE PA?  Um……no, I don’t think so.  You might want to have another look at your field guide.

The fish commission here has an excellent stocking program.. They release 50 or 60 goldens in this area as trophy fish each year.  It is true however that we have no natural goldens.  I was just out for a little bit this morning and the casting is coming along due to some really good advice.  I’m more concerned with getting a good presentation at this point than distance.   just looking ahead for some pond/lake fishing but for now i’m happy as a clam at the creeks and streams in the area..   thank again for all the info minkaz

Response:

Are you casting 20 feet between you and the fly, or 20 feet of flyline? It may not be that you’re jumping the gun, but of course it might  They may be rising to it but not actually taking it in their mouths.  You could try a more sparsely tied fly (for example a thorax or no hackle instead of a Wullf style, if the water is fairly flat).  Or you could just try a size or 2 smaller.  Or you could try a longer, lighter tippet. Regards, Jeff

I’m was casting about 20 ‘ of fly line.  i’ve gotten better today though so the distance is coming.. I received some info stating i was probably moving the rod too much and it was the case…   i had a little rainbow on this morning but it spit the hook.  still lots of fun though. be going out later. thanks again minkaz

Response:

Hello all I’ve been reading this newsgroup for a few days and have gotten a wealth of information from it.  I am new to fly fishing and am looking for some advice.  I’ve gotten my cast down pretty good well good for the creek i fish..  I can’t get decent distance but the presentation seems to be not too bad.  Any tips on increasing distance?  I’m only getting about 20 feet now, which is about double what i was getting heheeh. Now for the big question.. I’ve been fishing for trout in a small creek and  i’ve been using dry flies and have gotten a lot of hits.. fishing is good here in NE PA.  However i can’t seem to get a good hookset or any hookset for that matter…. probably me jumping the gun but any advice on this would be appreciated. Equipment i’ve been using is a cheap combo i wanted to try out just to get into it a bit more to see if i liked it before investing a ton of cash.  It’s a pflueger rod 5-6   using a #6 wf flyline and a tapered leader.  whole thing cost me about 35 bucks and i’ve gotten some activity from the trout just can’t seem to land one.   One of the biggest problems i see are the fish going right up to the fly and kind of nosing it and turning around.  Well  not to keep yammering on and on i’ll close  here and thanks in advance for any and all info. minkaz

Response:

Hello all I’ve been reading this newsgroup for a few days and have gotten a wealth of information from it.  I am new to fly fishing and am looking for some advice.  I’ve gotten my cast down pretty good well good for the creek i fish..  I can’t get decent distance but the presentation seems to be not too bad.  Any tips on increasing distance?  I’m only getting about 20 feet now, which is about double what i was getting heheeh.

Are you hauling or just casting?  If you’re double hauling and only getting 20 feet, you do have a problem.  If you are just "flipping" the line, learn to haul. Now for the big question.. I’ve been fishing for trout in a small creek and  i’ve been using dry flies and have gotten a lot of hits.. fishing is good here in NE PA.  However i can’t seem to get a good hookset or any hookset for that matter…. probably me jumping the gun but any advice on this would be appreciated.

1st, sharpen your hooks, then work on your technique – practice, practice, practice. Equipment i’ve been using is a cheap combo i wanted to try out just to get into it a bit more to see if i liked it before investing a ton of cash.  It’s a pflueger rod 5-6   using a #6 wf flyline and a tapered leader.  whole thing cost me about 35 bucks and i’ve gotten some activity from the trout just can’t seem to land one.  

IMO, the cost of the equipment shouldn’t be the deciding factor in catching fish and see above about practice. One of the biggest problems i see are the fish going right up to the fly and kind of nosing it and turning around.  Well  not to keep yammering on and on i’ll close  here and thanks in advance for any and all info.

Then they almost certainly realize something’s up.  Perhaps a further description of your tackle and typical conditions.  What patterns are you using? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -minkaz

Response:

Hello all I’ve been reading this newsgroup for a few days and have gotten a wealth of information from it.  I am new to fly fishing and am looking for some advice.

        ken fortenberry is our on duty newbie advice person this week, minkaz, and it would appear that he is temporarily occupied elsewhere. i am quite certain that he will return shortly with a wealth of information for you.  if he doesn’t show in an hour or so, email me with specific questions and i will do the best i can to be of assistance. wayno         p.s.:  what kind of vehicle do you own?

Response:

Any tips on increasing distance? check out books and videos from the library Equipment I’ve been using is a cheap combo

good for you…money aint the thing…. One of the biggest problems i see are the fish going right up to the fly and kind of nosing it and turning a round. finer tippets and different flies till ya get it figured out…..have the local shop recommend a fly or two. flies, finer tippets and sneaky’s the key….for now anyhow

Response:

Nahhhh.  You go JeffC.  Just let us know how it works out (notwithstanding the Richardson Lady.  For GOD’S sake, don’t make her mad…). Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all I’ve been reading this newsgroup for a few days and have gotten a wealth of information from it.  I am new to fly fishing and am looking for some advice.         ken fortenberry is our on duty newbie advice person this week, minkaz, and it would appear that he is temporarily occupied elsewhere. i am quite certain that he will return shortly with a wealth of information for you.  if he doesn’t show in an hour or so, email me with specific questions and i will do the best i can to be of assistance. wayno         p.s.:  what kind of vehicle do you own?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Then they almost certainly realize something’s up.  Perhaps a further description of your tackle and typical conditions.  What patterns are you using? typical conditions where i fish are:  small creek about 15 feet across..  I found a nice pool that’s is really close to crysal clear. i’ts over 6.5 feet deep i know due to me being a newbie at rock climbing also lol.   anyway i’ve been seeing lots and lots of trout in the pool and also at the far end of it in the shallows.  i caught a golden there the other day with my ultralight.  patterns?  i have no idea i’ve been tying on so many different flies and just going with what they chase. So far what’s worked best is an ant and anything that has some yellow or brown color in it.   I have had a few bites but the old heart got pounding and i guess i went to set the hook to fast. Hopefully i’ll settle down with that or i’ll be moving into a cardiac care center.  Again thanks for all the replies

You MAY be setting the hook to fast.  Then again you may not be fast enough.  Fish will spit anything that doesn’t feel right.  Timing is critical. If you’re getting fish to rise to your fly you don’t need to cast any further.  Don’t worry about it. Distance will come with practice. Goldens?  In NE PA?  Um……no, I don’t think so.  You might want to have another look at your field guide.

Response:

   ken fortenberry is our on duty newbie advice person this week, minkaz, and it would appear that he is temporarily occupied elsewhere. i am quite certain that he will return shortly with a wealth of information for you.  if he doesn’t show in an hour or so, email me with specific questions and i will do the best i can to be of assistance. wayno    p.s.:  what kind of vehicle do you own?

hehe i drive an old 79 ford f150 pick up that i’m in the process of restoring.. but i’m not a plummer hehehehe

Response:

Then they almost certainly realize something’s up.  Perhaps a further description of your tackle and typical conditions.  What patterns are you using?

typical conditions where i fish are:  small creek about 15 feet across..  I found a nice pool that’s is really close to crysal clear. i’ts over 6.5 feet deep i know due to me being a newbie at rock climbing also lol.   anyway i’ve been seeing lots and lots of trout in the pool and also at the far end of it in the shallows.  i caught a golden there the other day with my ultralight.  patterns?  i have no idea i’ve been tying on so many different flies and just going with what they chase. So far what’s worked best is an ant and anything that has some yellow or brown color in it.   I have had a few bites but the old heart got pounding and i guess i went to set the hook to fast. Hopefully i’ll settle down with that or i’ll be moving into a cardiac care center.  Again thanks for all the replies minkaz

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – % % % % % I don’t know, but if this guy % is for real……he scares me!!!! % % This is the strait scoop.  Theres % nothing to be scared of unless your a % smartmouth like that stooge guy Moe. % % % Me, too!  Strangely, I’m reminded % of the thread from late % Summer/early Fall that dealt % with stories of sabotage, flattened % tires and other acts against fisher % people…  hmmmmmmmmmmmmm! % % I dont know nothin about that % stuff.  I just started posting % here.   I know % about guys who got their tires % slashed when they fished here in NY on them % Indian reservations.   You gotta % watch out for some of them jamokes when %they % go on the warpath.  I could tell % you stories but I dont got the time now. %The % little lady is already bitchin % cause Im running the computer instead of %helping % with her dishes. % % MEOW!!!! % % Tony G. % % % -tran % Oakland, CA % % % % % % % % THIS POSTED IN ALT.FAN.KARL-MALDEN.NOSE, %ALT.ALIEN.VAMPIRE.FLONK.FLONK.FLONK, % REC.OUTDOORS.FISHING.FLY  REC.OUTDOORS % FISHING.BASS, ALT.FISHING % % BOYCOTT THE COLEMAN STORE FOR CENSHORSHIP % www.rochesterweb.com/colemans % a.f.k-m.n.n (newbie)number of 2. % THIS POSTED IN ALT.FAN.KARL-MALDEN.NOSE, %ALT.ALIEN.VAMPIRE.FLONK.FLONK.FLONK, % REC.OUTDOORS.FISHING.FLY % REC.OUTDOORS FISHING.BASS, ALT.FISHING % % BOYCOTT THE COLEMAN STORE FOR CENSHORSHIP % www.rochesterweb.com/colemans % a.f.k-m.n.n (newbie)number of 2. % %PROBLEM THE FIRST: Adding "Subject" %to the subject header %is stupid and redundant and %fucks up the way that many %newsreaders, including Mozilla %and Agent, display threads. % %PROBLEM THE SECOND: You did not %x-post this to AFKMN, or %for that matter anywhere else, %and especially not any of %the groups that you list. In %fact, all of the people you %replied too will likely never %see your posts for this %reason. (You will note that %this has been corrected, %and I even added alt.flame %to the headers, because I %felt like flaming a newbie %anyway. You’re welcome.) % %PROBLEM THE THIRD: We (TINW) %do not issue "newbie %numbers". I don’t know who %told you that, and whoever %it is is probably going to be %really pissed that I ruined %the joke, but that’s the truth. % %PROBLEM THE FOURTH: Your grammar sucks. % %PROBLEM THE FIFTH: You make no %attempt at making anything %even vaguely resembling UPA. %This of course makes me %wonder why you are here in %the first place, unless of %course you are one of those %stupid newbie me-tooers that %have been plaguing us recently. %Which is in fact very %likely. % %PROBLEM THE SIXTH: You posted %your sig twice. Way to %go, dipshit. % %PROBLEM THE SEVENTH: You suck. % %CONCLUSION: I’d plonk you, but %I’m actually vaguely %interested as to how you react to this. % %– %mhm37×4                   crisis at quackquack dot com % %"They call them ‘bouncing %baby boys’, but they don’t really %bounce. They just sort of go ‘plop’." % %      -Bruce McCulloch % %Mr. Crisis; % %I dont got a lot of time to post %this morning.  I got up late and I gotta open %the shop up for the boys in a few minutes. % %I wrote Mr. Crisis cause I dont know %if your a guy or a girl from your name but %Im guessing your a guy.   If Im wrong %I figger you’ll let me know. % %I know Im a newbie and I figger %like most places this is some kind of %initation.  Im cool with that.  So %Im not gonna get insulting back at you %because that probably wouldnt be %the Meow way and Im trying to be a good Meower %now.  I hope I pass the initation. % %Ive been reading the Nose for weeks %now and I dont remeber seeing too much from %you before.  Your probably one of %them lower rankin Meowers that they use for %the initations.  Your not one of the %big time Meowers like Medcial Catastrophy. % Thats ok because you still rank higher %than me.  Its like us guys at the %volunteer fire dept all got different ranks. % %It dont always got anything to do %with how long you been somewhere neither.   I %been with the fire dept for 12 years %now but I take orders from the guy whose %Captain even though hes only been there %6 years and Im bigger than he is and I %could kick his behind if I wanted to. %   I figger its somethin like that. % %Im doing good as a mewoer so far. %Ive got all kinds of guys pissed off in all %them fishin groups and there talking %about ratting on me to compuserv and me %losing my account with compuserv. %Dont you people call that netpolice?  They %dont want me posting there because %they dont want to here nothing bad about the %fishing and the guys lifting and %snaggin the fish all the tiem. % %Before I go I wanted to talk about %some of them problems you mentioned.  Thanks %for posting to all those groups all %at once for me.   With this compuserv crap %I cant crosspost nothin.   The reason %for stuff being in my posts twice is %because Ive been copying and then %pasting all these posts to new posts and then %posting to each group individually. %It sure takes a lot of time and thats why %I dont have a lot of time to respond today. % %As far as them newbie numbers I got. %I got 3133T from Medical Catastrophy and %the other one I got from Scott Johnson. %I dont know what the Meow policy is on %them numbers but I figger that Medical % Catastrophy knows what hes talkin about. % Youll have to take it up with him. %Hes like your boss right? % %PS  Whats UPA?   I cant talk intelligent %about it if I dont know what it is. % %PPS   I know my writing sucks but %its better than it used to be.  Im trying but %its hard.  Its always been hard.   The %penguins were always making me stay %after school as a kid at the Catholic %school there.  I want to be a writer %though so I can write good stuff %about the storys my dad used to tell me about %WW2 and Toe Joe and Hero Hito. % %Ill see ya.  Thanks again. % %MEOW!!!!! % %Tony G.  3133T This troll.  It is simply too obvious. I will not respond to it. hey toneyg im liek teh lowest rankeing dued here next to loerd corkscrewbutt so yuo can litsen to me but be suer not to copey anytheing i do or respeong to me or yuoll be immeddieatetly gieven a vrey low mewo rank henvieng said thet i hace to respecteufleley disagree weth teh

Question:

Anyone out there fish the Deschutes River.  Looking for someone to share information with.

Response:

Anyone out there fish the Deschutes River.  Looking for someone to share information with.

I fish the lower 20 miles of the Deschutes.  I already have had freinds catch some steelhead.  this is th time of the year to get to the river and swing a fly across the current….hang on, he will jerk the rod out of your hand. Sharp Hooks, Pat Holdzit Fishing Products Inc. http://www.holdzit.com Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Question:

I didn’t even mention her cloaca.

But you thought about it.  You have a one-track mind. azure

Response:

I don’t think anyone "grilled" Julia for anything – she ASKED for what people here thought. The only vaguely rude post I saw at all was Eric Cordian’s.

What did you find rude about my post?   I didn’t even mention her cloaca. — Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"

Response:

Well I have been drinking more water lately, but even without it I’d still think this situation could have been handled better.  It seems to have calmed down though, despite this attempt of yours to get me going again. Rats.  It didn’t work.

LOLOLOL!  And it’s a good thing too…posting cuts into my bathroom time! You’ve no idea the strain a mere 2 gallons of water puts on my poor abused innards! azure

Ravenna, having a much needed laugh —       Kristen Kohlbecker    And I would choose to be with you                             But you can make decisions too       A Tyger and a Lady    And you can have this heart to break

Response:

x-no-archive: yes Holy Macheral andy, that was easy!  :-)         – Panther (glad to see ole andy back)

Groannnnnnnn Bwahahahahahhaaaaa /tigerbunny rolls on the floor, drowning in tears of laughter I thought I was gonna bust a gut laughing over the image of averti as Foghorn Leghorn in green suede shoes ("That’s a JOKE, son") oh, you people really are too much! tigerbunny

Response:

Yoah heah! yoah heah!  Let the bells ring out and the banners fly! Its too good to be true! but yoah heah!!!! Hey Tigerbunny! great to see your smiling face! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes Holy Macheral andy, that was easy!  :-)         – Panther (glad to see ole andy back) Groannnnnnnn Bwahahahahahhaaaaa /tigerbunny rolls on the floor, drowning in tears of laughter I thought I was gonna bust a gut laughing over the image of averti as Foghorn Leghorn in green suede shoes ("That’s a JOKE, son") oh, you people really are too much! tigerbunny

Response:

Well I have been drinking more water lately, but even without it I’d still think this situation could have been handled better.  It seems to have calmed down though, despite this attempt of yours to get me going again.

Rats.  It didn’t work. azure

Response:

x-no archive: yes Hi Panther; Ok I’m back, with poster’s remorse. Moving on, to stage 3(?) Flame yourself. I feel Averti is giving "andy" far too much credit, 51%? Well perhaps that is true 49% of the time, on a very good day. And just who the hell does this "andy" think he is, anyway? All that fuss’n and a stomp’n. Snagged in the back I lack an attack. Well, that nasty remose, is over now. andy (Trout Mac Finnagan) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes Come back lil Sheba.

Question:

Going there soon. Any one have any good info to share? I’d appreciate it!!! Thanks

Response:

Going there soon. Any one have any good info to share? I’d appreciate it!!! Thanks

a very nice spot, but not the greatest fishing. at least for me. so…..it might be good and i suck??  last i was there the rainbows were very small. caught a few casting small mepps spinners from shore and from the boat. some guys swear by the old "ford fender" gang troll and a wedding band spinner with a worm. no luck myself, but saw a couple taken. i coudn’t raise a thing with the fly rod. others that tried had the same results. this was last year so things may have picked up a bit. no matter what, it’s a very pretty spot to go. by the way…if you do have good fishing, please post on what was working! thanks,b.

Response:

Ben, You must have had bad luck! I’ve been on the lake four times, three times for stays of 5 days or more. For me, the fishing was always fantastic!!!  This is a canoe only lake, with a 2.5 km portage in.  For this reason, there is less fishing pressure on Murtle than you would find on lakes with easy car access.  I’ve pulled trout out of the lake up to five lbs with 2-3 lbs being the average.  I’ve fished it standing in the water casting in shallows, float tubing and trolling from the canoe and never been skunked.  On one trip I spoke with a park rangers who said some slob had pulled out a 14 pounder out of the north arm of the lake! The lake has two arms: north and west.  I’ve never been up the north arm but I understand that it has much less traffic than the west but the weather isn’t quite as good as it is on the west arm.  The west arm has better camping spots and BETTER FISHING.  There is a river that flows into the west arm (the name escapes me now) that is a used by the kokanee in the late summer to spawn.  I’ve fished the outlet of the river and had some of the best fishing days of my life. On one trip in early  September, I caught three fish in four casts.  All of them were 12-16 inches. The west arm empties into the Murtle River which has some great dry fly fishing all along it.  Though the further down the river you go from the lake the smaller the fish get. This lake is a fishing heaven that has some fantastic dry fly action if your in the right place at the right time.  My best luck has been with black leeches, big dragon fly nymphs and Doc Spratleys.  Take lots of these if your a fly fisherman.  For drys take lots of Adams, dark dun Elk Wing Caddis and a variety of other western drys. Good Luck, Dave. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going there soon. Any one have any good info to share? I’d appreciate it!!! Thanks a very nice spot, but not the greatest fishing. at least for me. so…..it might be good and i suck??  last i was there the rainbows were very small. caught a few casting small mepps spinners from shore and from the boat. some guys swear by the old "ford fender" gang troll and a wedding band spinner with a worm. no luck myself, but saw a couple taken. i coudn’t raise a thing with the fly rod. others that tried had the same results. this was last year so things may have picked up a bit. no matter what, it’s a very pretty spot to go. by the way…if you do have good fishing, please post on what was working! thanks,b.

Response:

Question:

Yes, REAL hand-tied. Saw an article a few years back about a company in Scotland with a room of ladies tying without vises. Maybe traditional in the Islands? mayfly

Hand-tied flies, what about it? As far as I know Hardys famous flies were all hand-tied. Tying without a vise is going through some sort of renaissance.

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(LinerLock) writes: My wife gave the video "Lee Wulff on the Beaverkill" to me for Christmas. Mr. Wulff was in his 80’s when the video was shot.  In it, he ties four flies, all without a vise.  I believe that one was a Royal Wulff in size 18.  My impression is that he tied all of his flies without a vise.  Of course, I don’t think that they were as pretty as the ones you reference on ESPN.

You can see a smple of how this is done in Darrell Martin’s book Fly Tying Methods on page 253, chapter 30 "Sans-Vise Tying". You can also see how to tie atlantic salmon flies without a vise in the book How To Dress Salmon Flies by T.E. Pryce-Tannat (originally published in 1914) or Salmon Flies by George Kelson (originally published in 1895). both are currently available in reprint.                                            Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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Lee tied all of his flies in his hands.  In the early 70’s, he and Joan gave a clinic for the old Garcia Company.  After dinner their 12-year old tied a #12 Royal Wulff in  his fingers. It can be done.  Grasp the hook between the thumb and third finger of the left hand.  Use the index and middle finger to position material.  Half hitch after tying each part of the fly.  It seems to be easier without a bobbin. A vise is faster, and mistakes are easier to correct.  I suspect Lee’s in-hand tied flies were all part of the mystique he created for himself.

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My wife gave the video "Lee Wulff on the Beaverkill" to me for Christmas. Mr. Wulff was in his 80’s when the video was shot.  In it, he ties four flies, all without a vise.  I believe that one was a Royal Wulff in size 18.  My impression is that he tied all of his flies without a vise.  Of course, I don’t think that they were as pretty as the ones you reference on ESPN. Johnny Johnson

Perhaps the best tyer to eschew a vice was an Idahoan named Bing Lemke.  Mr. Lemke passed on a few years ago.  Mr. Lemke had hands that looked like he worked in a slaughter house, they were big and rough with deep wrinkles.  But Bing’s fame came from the extended body may flies he tied on size 28 and 32 hooks.  Yes sizes 28 and 32.   Yes he used no vice.  The hooks were specially provided to him by Mustad — I think they were model 540K, but I could be wrong.  The flies were beautiful and the photos I have seen show six or eight flies lined up on a match stick.  Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your perspective) Bing never was featured on ESPN.

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(Spin4trout) writes: The employees weren’t using a vise, just their hands while tying. Now

that’s a skill. My wife gave the video "Lee Wulff on the Beaverkill" to me for Christmas. Mr. Wulff was in his 80’s when the video was shot.  In it, he ties four flies, all without a vise.  I believe that one was a Royal Wulff in size 18.  My impression is that he tied all of his flies without a vise.  Of course, I don’t think that they were as pretty as the ones you reference on ESPN. Johnny Johnson

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Did any of you catch the recent ESPN FF show about salmon fishing in Ireland. They showed a company making REAL hand-tied flies. The employees weren’t using a vise, just their hands while tying. Now that’s a skill. Don Burns

Yes, REAL hand-tied. Saw an article a few years back about a company in Scotland with a room of ladies tying without vises. Maybe traditional in the Islands? mayfly

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[snip snip] in the other direction. The Blue is good as is the Frying pan but the smaller and less fished rivers and creeks of N. Co. are a true joy. The fish may not be as big but the crowds are not there and the experience is

[snip snip] they won’t be for long if this keeps up… Tim Walker

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I am going to Colorado next summer to fly fish.  Since I will be driving from West Virginia, I would prefer not to go more than 2 hours from Denver. I need advice as to the best streams to fish and possibly places to stay. I would prefer a cabin or cottage.  What about the South Platte, Fryingpan, Colorado, and Blue River? Which would be the best choice? Any help or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks for you time. Scott

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There are many good places within 2 hrs of Denver. The S.Platte is over fished and crowed with very inconsiderate fishermen. I would suggest going in the other direction. The Blue is good as is the Frying pan but the smaller and less fished rivers and creeks of N. Co. are a true joy. The fish may not be as big but the crowds are not there and the experience is much better. Pristene settings, little or no trash. Check out the high mountain lakes and streams of the RMNP. Estes Park Anglers can help with guides and places to stay in the area.

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I try and visit my some of my kids in Colo every summer.  But as you know even in late August the So Platte at Deckers was unfishable and the Arkansas as well.  But maybe this summer will be normal…. South Platte River in Deckers.  Take Rt 285 west out of Denver.  Turn Left at Pine Junction.  Follow to the bottom the the canyon.  Use 2 flies, RS-2 and Buckskin (both nymphs) size 18 or 20.  No larger than a 6X leader is mandatory.  Use a small floating strike indicator and place a very small shot about 6 to 8 inches from the fly.  The idea is to keep the nymph just off the bottom so adjusting the indicator for water depth is essential.  Fish places where slow water meets fast water like behind larger rocks.  The fish are there so make sure you work the section very well adjusting the indicator for depth.  Looking for flashing fish near the bottom that are feeding.  Flip the rig up stream and let the indicator float as naturally as possible.  Keep repeating until the indicator hesitates the slightest in the float.  Just raise up you rod tip and bingo! there’s a fish on.   If you use this method correctly you will get hook ups (gauranteed!!) the trick is to bring them to net on a 6X leader in fast water.  The regulations are flies and lures only, 2 fish per day over 16 inches.  Try just down stream from the trestle bridge at Deckers.  The technique is effective on all Colo streams.  The "Flies and Lies" fly shop in Deckers can also help in supplying you with flies. On a Saturday, you will not be alone.  But there are so many fish and so few fisherman that know the method and use it effectively , it has never gotten in my way.  I’d recommend getting there at 1st light (Say 5:30) fish unitl 1000 AM and then leave.  Return at say 6 Pm and fish until dark (9 PM).  I’ve found you can avoid a crowd this way.                                                indicator                                                                                                                                  micro shot                        (e.g. lil corkie) In the current, looks like this flow is right to left                                                                                !                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 !                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 ! I’d also suggest Tarryall Resevoir, over Kenosha Pass (RT 285 west and turn left at Jefferson) in south park.  Wade fish from shore with damsel fly/dragon fly/sonefly nymphs twitched just below the surface (long leader, 10′).  You can cast to feeding fish.  Fish the side that has the paved road frontage toward the dam (in between the stone jettys).  There is very good dry fly activity there after the sun goes down (say 7pm) and dark. (Native browns, stocked rainbows (12-14") and even some cutthroat and kokanee).  Tarryall creek (not subject to runoff) downstream from the resevoir is also pretty good (this section is now part of a private club). We have had great success on the Arkansas River down stream from Salida.  Good success fishing for Browns on brown stone fly nymphs fished close shore.  Best technique is walk down the middle and fish both shore lines.  The other 2 flies that have been good to us are the muddler minnow and the Renegade.  This stretch has the same regulations as the Deckers section of the So. Platte.  The signs this summer indicated it is now Public Lands all the way down to the bridge in Wellsville. Keep in touch, maybe we can "hook up" when I am out there this summer (I hope). Good fishin!!! Bill Althoff

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