Question:

Hi Scott, Considering that it would be ~$15,000 new, I don’t think you can go too wrong at the price. It might be a "gas hog"? — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello fellow boaters, I just sold my little old 12 footer with a 9.9 Johnson in favor of something a little bigger, and here is a boat I am interested in: 1979 Crestliner, aluminum -open bow, nice carpeted wood flooring (recently re-done) -has a sterring console -livewell -auto bilge pump -looks to be in good shape, not beat up -1987 85hp Force outboard w/jet -good trailer -comes with 3 portable ga tanks -a couple of pedestal seats I am going for a test ride this weekend and will do a compression test as well. this boat is set up well for fishing, i like the storage space and boat layout. i also like the jet. Before anyone goes on about jets, I am more than familiar with the pros and cons, and I have to have a jet due to the places I go.  The owner said the boat will go about 32mph with a decent load – this is more than fine for me.  as long as it gets up on plane and goes ( i will not be pulling skiers or anything… just fishing). the owner is asking $2750 – does this seems fair (considering he probably overpriced it a little bit as we all do when selling something)? Engine runs well, and he has seemed to do good maintenance on the boat. If I decide to get this boat I will add a bow-mount trolling motor (probably a minn kota 50# thrust) for fishing, a fish finder, and maybe an extra pedestal seat. let me know what you guys think.  oh – one other question: i am more familiar with inboard jets and big jet boats than outboad jets: do outboard jet units still have a seperate impeller to cool the engine (like it would with a prop), or do they just work off the bowl pressure to get their water feed?  Just curious Thanks! scott

Response:

Hello fellow boaters, I just sold my little old 12 footer with a 9.9 Johnson in favor of something a little bigger, and here is a boat I am interested in: 1979 Crestliner, aluminum -open bow, nice carpeted wood flooring (recently re-done) -has a sterring console -livewell -auto bilge pump -looks to be in good shape, not beat up -1987 85hp Force outboard w/jet -good trailer -comes with 3 portable ga tanks -a couple of pedestal seats I am going for a test ride this weekend and will do a compression test as well. this boat is set up well for fishing, i like the storage space and boat layout. i also like the jet. Before anyone goes on about jets, I am more than familiar with the pros and cons, and I have to have a jet due to the places I go.  The owner said the boat will go about 32mph with a decent load – this is more than fine for me.  as long as it gets up on plane and goes ( i will not be pulling skiers or anything… just fishing). the owner is asking $2750 – does this seems fair (considering he probably overpriced it a little bit as we all do when selling something)? Engine runs well, and he has seemed to do good maintenance on the boat. If I decide to get this boat I will add a bow-mount trolling motor (probably a minn kota 50# thrust) for fishing, a fish finder, and maybe an extra pedestal seat. let me know what you guys think.  oh – one other question: i am more familiar with inboard jets and big jet boats than outboad jets: do outboard jet units still have a seperate impeller to cool the engine (like it would with a prop), or do they just work off the bowl pressure to get their water feed?  Just curious Thanks! scott

Response:

Nada doesn’t support a 1979 boat, and I don’t know which model it is. By the way, the boat is a 16′. -scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Try: www.nada.com # Hello fellow boaters, # # I just sold my little old 12 footer with a 9.9 Johnson in favor of # something a little bigger, and here is a boat I am interested in: # # 1979 Crestliner, aluminum # -open bow, nice carpeted wood flooring (recently re-done) # -has a sterring console # -livewell # -auto bilge pump # -looks to be in good shape, not beat up # -1987 85hp Force outboard w/jet # -good trailer # -comes with 3 portable ga tanks # -a couple of pedestal seats # # I am going for a test ride this weekend and will do a compression test # as well. this boat is set up well for fishing, i like the storage space # and boat layout. i also like the jet. # # Before anyone goes on about jets, I am more than familiar with the pros # and cons, and I have to have a jet due to the places I go.  The owner # said the boat will go about 32mph with a decent load – this is more than # fine for me.  as long as it gets up on plane and goes ( i will not be # pulling skiers or anything… just fishing). # # the owner is asking $2750 – does this seems fair (considering he # probably overpriced it a little bit as we all do when selling # something)? Engine runs well, and he has seemed to do good maintenance # on the boat. # # If I decide to get this boat I will add a bow-mount trolling motor # (probably a minn kota 50# thrust) for fishing, a fish finder, and maybe # an extra pedestal seat. # # let me know what you guys think.  oh – one other question: i am more # familiar with inboard jets and big jet boats than outboad jets: do # outboard jet units still have a seperate impeller to cool the engine # (like it would with a prop), or do they just work off the bowl pressure # to get their water feed?  Just curious # # Thanks! # # scott #

Response:

Thanks Jim. I have done more reseach, and I am going for a test drive today and possibly to buy it if the compression checks out on all 3 cylinders and if I don’t see any red flags. -scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a previous poster suggested NADA, I say use NADA if you’re going to buy, to help you negotiate.  I don’t know which ass NADA pulls its numbers  from, but according to NADA, I got ripped off buying a boat, motor and trailer for $500.   The boat  you’re looking at, stay away from.  Forget the deal.  Just give me than name and number for the person selling this setup at this price!  I’ll handle it from here.  :^)   Seriously tho, it sounds like a GREAT deal.  If you would be happy with it at that price, then that’s what really matters!  From what you say, I believe *I* would be! -Jim

Response:

As a previous poster suggested NADA, I say use NADA if you’re going to buy, to help you negotiate.  I don’t know which ass NADA pulls its numbers  from, but according to NADA, I got ripped off buying a boat, motor and trailer for $500.   The boat  you’re looking at, stay away from.  Forget the deal.  Just give me than name and number for the person selling this setup at this price!  I’ll handle it from here.  :^)   Seriously tho, it sounds like a GREAT deal.  If you would be happy with it at that price, then that’s what really matters!  From what you say, I believe *I* would be! -Jim

Response:

Question:

Any opinions on what will be hatching this Thursday, with 90 degree weather last week, snow today, and low water?   On the river I’ll be fishing, on 4/25 I would expect the end of the Quill Gordons, some Blue Quills, the beginning of the Hendricksons, maybe some Shad Fly caddis.  But, with the odd weather, heaven knows what’s happening and I’d appreciate some opinions, founded in current observation or not. Thanks in advance. Glenn GKT

Response:

Any opinions on what will be hatching this Thursday, with 90 degree weather last week, snow today, and low water?   On the river I’ll be fishing, on 4/25 I would expect the end of the Quill Gordons, some Blue Quills, the beginning of the Hendricksons, maybe some Shad Fly caddis.  But, with the odd weather, heaven knows what’s happening and I’d appreciate some opinions, founded in current observation or not.

How are the water temps compared to what they would normally be?  IMO, that is a very important, if not THE most important, part of the "equation." — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

I think you’re right but I won’t know the exact temperature for that stream until I get there.  They are probably near normal now, most likely following a small spike during the four hot days. GlennHow are the water temps compared to what they would normally be?  IMO, that is a very important, if not THE most important, part of the "equation." — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

GKT

Response:

I think you’re right but I won’t know the exact temperature for that stream until I get there.  They are probably near normal now, most likely following a small spike during the four hot days.

Sometimes you can get water temps from the USGS Streamflow reports.  Look around http://mt.waterdata.usgs.gov/nwis/help/?redirect=rt_www_redirect — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

Question:

Thailand seems to treat Americans well.  I recall being stopped while sitting in a Thai cab by the police at what appears to be regular police check points for cabs. The Thai policemen noticed that I was American and had instructed the cab drive to treat me well and to get me to where I was going without delay responding in English that I enjoy my visit to Thailand. I have a fond memory of Bankok and enjoyed my stay there.

This sound like the reception Americans now receive in Phnom Penh, where it has recently been discovered that tourism is a huge money earner for everyone from coconut sellers in the streets to top dog Cambodiana Hotel owners. In Siem Reap, tourists coming from Bangkok are so popular, the guest house owners welcome them with extra security! See the latest news from Siem Reap from Gordon Sharpless on http://talesofasia.com/Cambodia/Updates/index.htm The Lao guys don’t seem to care much where anyone comes from, but in Vietnam, Americans are today even more popular than ever! Watch out when those Honda om drivers proposed to visit a bia om!! They dream only of dollars!! Cheers,

Response:

Thailand seems to treat Americans well.  I recall being stopped while sitting in a Thai cab by the police at what appears to be regular police check points for cabs. The Thai policemen noticed that I was American and had instructed the cab drive to treat me well and to get me to where I was going without delay responding in English that I enjoy my visit to Thailand. I have a fond memory of Bankok and enjoyed my stay there.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I remember distinctly that the admission to go up the 1000 steps to the top of Marble Mountain in Da Nang was US$10 for foreign tourists, which all 40 people in my tour thought excessive, and none would take the tour!  The admission for Vietnamese natives was $1. There were 4 policemen seating glumly under a shade at the entrance to go up the mountain and probably many more further up. A Swedish national, the nicest guy in the tour, who bought a lot of souvenirs along the way and gave money to begging children, got very upset and put up a noisy fight when he was shortchanged by a shop selling marble figurines!  He was again shortchanged in Hue by a girl selling brass gifts on a tour boat! The government’s 2-tier pricing scheme in most government services like airlines, trains etc…just make tourists feel cheated. The feelings among the tourists are that the Vietnamese government does not understand or care what service is.  They are obviously still waging a guerrilla warfare against the world. Merchants inflate their prices with tourists and look for every chance to short change them! It wasn’t long into this tour when some of the nicest and well-meaning people in the tour became very angry and leery of the Vietnamese government and its officials. In other tour groups in non-communist countries in Asia, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia etc…I had observed much more relaxed, happier and fun interaction between tourists and local people! There is Vietnamese official statitics that only 10% tourists return to Vietnam for a second visit, compared to 50% in Thailand.  Vietnam government and people  have to clean up their acts a great deal to make tourists feel welcomed.  The first thing that should go is that guerrilla warfare mentality among government officials, us against all those foreign devils, before Vietnam can be a friend with the world! VIET THIET

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – At many other tourists’ attractions in Vietnam where foreign tourists are charged 10 times Vietnamese for admission, in the range of US$5 to US$10, . . . . . . On the outside chance you were telling the truth about not knowing the value of the US dollar over there (boy, they must have loved you!), the range of entrance fees for foreigners is about $.75 to $4.00, with most falling in the $1.00 category. The few up near $4.00 are the former presidential palace in Saigon, and the three king’s tombs and the Forbidden City in Hue. And yes, Vietnamese nationals pay less. So what? Doug

Response:

Fully concur.  I saw some statistic whereby the Vietnamese communists have arrested some 25,000 people since the close of the conflict most of whom remain in jail or have disappeared off the face of the earth.   The statistics on health problems in Vietnam seem to be accurate to some degree since they tend to mirror WHO related data. Does anyone know the reason for the HIV problem in Vietnam and whether it is related to the "Green Monkey" virus in Vietnam – cousin of the African Green monkey of being spread by heroin – needle  related issues as to spread of the infection. The situation does not look good at all and since HIV can cause severe immune problems that leaves one open for other infections it would be wise to stay clear locations where such problems exist. Of course there is TB and other endemic diseases on the rise in Vietnam.  Thus, a degree of caution is warranted regardless of where you travel in Southeast Asia. While I have long taken a like to Vietnamese food and music having served in country during the war years I will stick to my favorite Vietnamese Restaurant here in the NY metro area (Flushing, Queens County).

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Mr. Hakpheng, Laotian people are indeed gentle. It’s the communists, Lao, Cambodian, Chinese or Vietnamese, who are the lowliest, crudest trash who have no respect for anyone or anything!   They are just a bunch of animals, given to satisfy their animalistic desires.  Nothing is sacred to them! Khmer Rouge and Pathet Laos were well known for raping, torturing, murdering women and children. I had posted in this group a true story by a then 14 year-old girl under Pol Pot’ horrible Khmer Rouge regime, who witnessed her close friends raped, sodomized, tortured then buried live in concentration camp by a bunch of Pol Pot’s soldier not much older then she. She now lives and works for the County of Los Angeles! These Communist savages should be driven from all countries on earth! VIET THIET Sabaydi THanouxay, I am so shock by this language you use. We have many of the young and innocent one here in SCL. We can not use this kind of the language to give them the bad idea. If you  have the bad word, you have to use the and this kind of the thing. It is the civilize way in America call as Etiquette language. Hakpheng

Response:

I remember distinctly that the admission to go up the 1000 steps to the top of Marble Mountain in Da Nang was US$10 for foreign tourists, which all 40 people in my tour thought excessive, and none would take the tour!  The admission for Vietnamese natives was $1.

Wrong again, Bucko! It is NOT, I repeat NOT $10!!!!! I’ve been up there more times than I can remember – the most recent about May 28. I’ve had hundreds of clients go there. I’ll find out the exact entrance fee, but it’s something like $1 for foreigners – less for Vietnamese. Doug PS. It may seem like 1,000 steps, escpecially as you near the top, but it’s really about 300.

Response:

I remember distinctly that the admission to go up the 1000 steps to the top of Marble Mountain in Da Nang was US$10 for foreign tourists, which all 40 people in my tour thought excessive, and none would take the tour!  The admission for Vietnamese natives was $1. There were 4 policemen seating glumly under a shade at the entrance to go up the mountain and probably many more further up. A Swedish national, the nicest guy in the tour, who bought a lot of souvenirs along the way and gave money to begging children, got very upset and put up a noisy fight when he was shortchanged by a shop selling marble figurines!  He was again shortchanged in Hue by a girl selling brass gifts on a tour boat! The government’s 2-tier pricing scheme in most government services like airlines, trains etc…just make tourists feel cheated. The feelings among the tourists are that the Vietnamese government does not understand or care what service is.  They are obviously still waging a guerrilla warfare against the world. Merchants inflate their prices with tourists and look for every chance to short change them! It wasn’t long into this tour when some of the nicest and well-meaning people in the tour became very angry and leery of the Vietnamese government and its officials. In other tour groups in non-communist countries in Asia, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia etc…I had observed much more relaxed, happier and fun interaction between tourists and local people! There is Vietnamese official statitics that only 10% tourists return to Vietnam for a second visit, compared to 50% in Thailand.  Vietnam government and people  have to clean up their acts a great deal to make tourists feel welcomed.  The first thing that should go is that guerrilla warfare mentality among government officials, us against all those foreign devils, before Vietnam can be a friend with the world! VIET THIET – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – At many other tourists’ attractions in Vietnam where foreign tourists are charged 10 times Vietnamese for admission, in the range of US$5 to US$10, . . . . . . On the outside chance you were telling the truth about not knowing the value of the US dollar over there (boy, they must have loved you!), the range of entrance fees for foreigners is about $.75 to $4.00, with most falling in the $1.00 category. The few up near $4.00 are the former presidential palace in Saigon, and the three king’s tombs and the Forbidden City in Hue. And yes, Vietnamese nationals pay less. So what? Doug

Response:

The $5 toll was what I remember mentioned by the cab driver.  However, I was and still am unfamiliar with Vietnamese currencies, so I was unsure of how much changed hands at both stages.

Let me see if I understand you correctly – - You are Vietnamese. You speak Vietnamese. You have many Vietnamese friends & relatives who have taken trips back to Vietnam. You took a trip back yourself and spent at least 2-3 weeks there. You hung out a bit with VCP types. You used a fake accent to make people think you were undercover police. Finally – you don’t know the difference between $5.00 and $.85? At many other tourists’ attractions in Vietnam where foreign tourists are charged 10 times Vietnamese for admission, in the range of US$5 to US$10, . . . . . .

On the outside chance you were telling the truth about not knowing the value of the US dollar over there (boy, they must have loved you!), the range of entrance fees for foreigners is about $.75 to $4.00, with most falling in the $1.00 category. The few up near $4.00 are the former presidential palace in Saigon, and the three king’s tombs and the Forbidden City in Hue. And yes, Vietnamese nationals pay less. So what? Doug – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Between Noi Bai and Ha Noi, there is a new bridge whose toll costs all vehicles about $5 each way . . . . . . At about 14,000 VND per US dollar, that would be about 70,000 VND if you were correct. You aren’t, of course, but that should surprise no one. The tolls on that bridge and the specially built airport highway (the toll is for both) are as follows: Car   –            12,000 VND Bus (9-30 seats) – 20,000 VND Bus (31-50 seats – 30,000 VND Doug

Response:

Dear Mr. Hakpheng, Laotian people are indeed gentle. It’s the communists, Lao, Cambodian, Chinese or Vietnamese, who are the lowliest, crudest trash who have no respect for anyone or anything!   They are just a bunch of animals, given to satisfy their animalistic desires.  Nothing is sacred to them! Khmer Rouge and Pathet Laos were well known for raping, torturing, murdering women and children. I had posted in this group a true story by a then 14 year-old girl under Pol Pot’ horrible Khmer Rouge regime, who witnessed her close friends raped, sodomized, tortured then buried live in concentration camp by a bunch of Pol Pot’s soldier not much older then she. She now lives and works for the County of Los Angeles! These Communist savages should be driven from all countries on earth! VIET THIET – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sabaydi THanouxay, I am so shock by this language you use. We have many of the young and innocent one here in SCL. We can not use this kind of the language to give them the bad idea. If you  have the bad word, you have to use the and this kind of the thing. It is the civilize way in America call as Etiquette language. Hakpheng

Response:

The $5 toll was what I remember mentioned by the cab driver.  However, I was and still am unfamiliar with Vietnamese currencies, so I was unsure of how much changed hands at both stages. While the specific toll amount may been different, or may have been changed, the bribing and cheating scheme was true.  In fact, bribing and cheating are the norm is everything in Vietnam. Everyone in Vietnam engage in full time  creative career of screwing the Vietnamese government (Laos and Cambodian too I assume) out of its high taxes! At many other tourists’ attractions in Vietnam where foreign tourists are charged 10 times Vietnamese for admission, in the range of US$5 to US$10, I was able to use my thick Hanoi-accented Vietnamese to impress upon the gate keepers that I was an undercover security police on inspection mission.  Of course I was allowed free admission and granted a lot of other privileges and perks! I will ask for a thorough, personal inspection of your passionate wife and daughters on the spot next time, dear comrade Thanouxay. Capitalists’ tools work wonder in Communist countries! VIET THIET – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dough, Thank you for updating us with nominal rate for the toll from Hanoi to Noi Bai. I have been travelling tens of times on this route and had never encountered such so-called US$ 5 extorsion as fabricated by this "respectable" Viet Thiet. If my calculation is right, Viet Thiet is a shameless liar and a real trouble maker. On top of it, he was "intelligent" enough to reveal the real purpose of his visit to Mexico and that is to find out some "cheap fuck"… With regard of this kind of traveller, I do strongly think that Laos and its neighbour Viet Nam, better kick out of their respective country as soon as this garbage landed at our airport. sok dee Thanouxay Between Noi Bai and Ha Noi, there is a new bridge whose toll costs all vehicles about $5 each way . . . . . . At about 14,000 VND per US dollar, that would be about 70,000 VND if you were correct. You aren’t, of course, but that should surprise no one. The tolls on that bridge and the specially built airport highway (the toll is for both) are as follows: Car   –            12,000 VND Bus (9-30 seats) – 20,000 VND Bus (31-50 seats – 30,000 VND Doug

Response:

It’s true that the VCP keeps their officals’ salaries very low compared to the cost of living, that it’s well known that people cannot live on government wages. They take on government jobs only to use the power and authority to make money on the side. Therefore, everywhere one goes, one has to grease palms.  Even government agencies have to bribe one another to conduct business!  That’s how corruption are widely accepted in Vietnam! Their poverty and hopelessness among the Hanoi government officials is sometimes heart rending! During my visit to Hanoi a year ago as a tourist, one of the middle-level managers of a state-owned company took the time during his normal work days to show me around Hanoi, introducing me to his family and friends. I was grateful for his friendship and the chance to learn first hand how they suffered during the war, the extremely limited means they presently have to contend with, and how well they manage to care for one another etc… At the end when I had to leave Hanoi, the official made it clear that he expected me to compensate him for his time taken from work, loudly complaining about his expenses while touring Hanoi with me, which made me reduce my level of regards I had for him, his ethics and his family!  While I complied with his request for payment, he could have had far more lucrative offers from me as a friend before he made his demand! This was a man who had travelled to many civilized countries to learn business practices, but when one is hungry, one is less likely to have very high regards for ethics! The "BIA OM" (literally translated – hugging beers), that George Moore mentioned, are protitution dens which proliferate everywhere in Vietnam. There is a very serious unemployment problem for women in Vietnam. A government officials even puts it at 90%! The women who do not want to do the hard labor and poor return of growing rice on the ever increasingly scarce farm land, have very few choices.  Most of them migrate to the city looking for better life styles, eventually have to resort to prostitution, or the hard work of cleaning hotels, to stay alive. The surplus supply of women turns just about every activity in Vietnam into "om," beer om, coffee om, hair cut om, massage om, facial om, fishing om, beaching om, bath om…as fronts for the prostitutes to ply their trade! These prostitutes and their touts are well known to be not so discreet, fighting noisily among themselves, pulling tourists off motorcycles into their stores… (this actually happened to me and my respectable old highschool teacher in saigon!) Considering that these prostitution dens are just about everywhere in Vietnam, from Hanoi to Saigon, the chance to catch some mysterious diseases via third, fourth, fifth…parties are very high! Official VN government statistics in 2000 puts the known number of prostitutes in the 200,000’s, with 1 out of 5 carrying HIV.  The true figures are most likely much higher! Extra medical precautions while visiting Vietnam are highly advised! VIET THIET – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would not even think about trying to change their system. Only the Vietnamese can do that.  However, the Vietnamese who have taken up residence in the U.S. and/or who have become citizens seem to adhere to a higher level of ethics than those who reside in Vietnam under the communists.  What I find disturbing is that if the corruption has become moreso rampart in Vietnam one might be concerned about the flow of narcotics which has the tendency not only to corrupt the system — it is indicative of just how serious the nature of the corruption can have its impact on the spread of addiction and disease resulting from same. There has to be some reasoning for the massive growth of HIV cases in Vietnam.  One might say if they stay clear of the bars and prostitutes one does not have to worry. Such is not the case — people who developed HIV or full blown Aides tend to have no immune system response and therefore they are prone to a wide of disease including TB known to be capable of spreading among humans in Vietnam and to visitors as well.  Some people including myself refuse to travel to SF, CA where the issue of public health is so serious one may merely develop a wide range of infections just by talking and/or handling a telephone receiver. When traveling to Vietnam carrying a bottle of antibiotic soap(liquid or soap bars), or wipes just to keep your hands clean.  I know some people who have returned from Vietnam who have developed fevers of unknown origin. Reminds me of the days following the return of large numbers of troops in late 1966 with the same problem. One of the problems with most U.S. medical facilities is that there are very few people with backgrounds in tropical medicine which can spell problems for returning tourists seeking medical care. Restaurants in Vietnam do not meet the same health standards of restaurants in the U.S. which must meet health codes and inspections.  Carry band aids and tube of triple antibiotic ointment for cuts and abrasions. Of course you can listen to your tourist agent who will tell you everything is just fine in Vietnam and you will dam well know he or she is full of crap. I have traveled extensive in third world countries and have found the following to be true.  Please don’t associate understanding the system

Response:

Sleazy sex tour operators like Dog Grease are therefore given the red carpet treatment personally by the VCP politburo!

For those few of you who aren’t already aware – Viet Thiet is a liar. Put up or shut up, liar. Prove what you say or shut up. $1,000 says you can’t. How much are you willing to put up? For once, stop running your foul mouth, surprise me, and show a little backbone. Prove it or shut up. Doug Who is now waiting for the usual obscenity-filled reply which totally avoids addressing my request.

Response:

On top of it, he was "intelligent" enough to reveal the real purpose of his visit to Mexico and that is to find out some "cheap fuck"… sok dee Thanouxay

Sabaydi THanouxay, I am so shock by this language you use. We have many of the young and innocent one here in SCL. We can not use this kind of the language to give them the bad idea. If you  have the bad word, you have to use the and this kind of the thing. It is the civilize way in America call as Etiquette language. Hakpheng

Response:

The bribes and extortion money are finely divided up the chain of command of the Vietnamese Commnist Party and government, just like the MAFIA! All the lucrative jobs where the officials can extort / blackmail for money are sold to the highest bidders.  Custom jobs at major airports are reported to go for 50 ounces of gold, whereas street/highway patrol jobs for policemen in major cities, where they usually take cash from violators rather than writing tickets, go for 20 to 30 ounces! Flight attendant jobs for Vietnam Air cost 12 ounces….regardless whether they can read or write! My relatives have gone through all these job buying schemes with just about every government agencies in Vietnam! In Vietnam all competitions for jobs and privileges are based on how "red" one is. All college and advanced degrees can be easily purchased from corrupt educators and school administrators. To get jobs, one has to have impecable proletariat and revolutionary family backgrounds, lots of party connections, or one has to pay a lot of money.  Vietnam ends up being tp loaded with the most corrupt, the least competent people. This is why Vietnam under the corrupt Communist system will forever be the poorest, most oppressed, most corrupt, sleaziest country on earth! This is the main reason a large percentage of the people fo Vietnam must engage and benefit directly or indirectly from prostitution, drug traffiking and other vices, in discreet ways so as to save face for the Communist Party leadership! The VCP leaders know full well that their meal tickets come from income derived from foreign tourists, who mostly seek the only commodity readily available very cheaply in vietnam: PROSTITUTES! Who ever come to stone-age Communist Vietnam for any other recreation? None is available anyway! Sleazy sex tour operators like Dog Grease are therefore given the red carpet treatment personally by the VCP politburo! VIET THIET – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t you mean to say that the money goes right into the pockets of those "bia om" workers? In fact, the next time you are there, why not ask the border guards directly about where the money goes? The question usually results in huge smiles!! And if you are really good, you can sometimes find the "bia om" just behind the border station! Those border guards are a riot! I wonder if their bosses know what goes on locally? Probably not… Cheers,

Response:

Dough, Thank you for updating us with nominal rate for the toll from Hanoi to Noi Bai. I have been travelling tens of times on this route and had never encountered such so-called US$ 5 extorsion as fabricated by this "respectable" Viet Thiet. If my calculation is right, Viet Thiet is a shameless liar and a real trouble maker. On top of it, he was "intelligent" enough to reveal the real purpose of his visit to Mexico and that is to find out some "cheap fuck"… With regard of this kind of traveller, I do strongly think that Laos and its neighbour Viet Nam, better kick out of their respective country as soon as this garbage landed at our airport. sok dee Thanouxay – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Between Noi Bai and Ha Noi, there is a new bridge whose toll costs all vehicles about $5 each way . . . . . . At about 14,000 VND per US dollar, that would be about 70,000 VND if you were correct. You aren’t, of course, but that should surprise no one. The tolls on that bridge and the specially built airport highway (the toll is for both) are as follows: Car   –            12,000 VND Bus (9-30 seats) – 20,000 VND Bus (31-50 seats – 30,000 VND Doug

Response:

As this stupid, ignorant, pitiful trash of a man below, who uses a dead man’s name as his screen name, and who cannot read or write English, or Vietnamese for that matter, pretends that he can find faults with Viet Thiet’s writing, he just shows the world the stupid, deceitful nature of the Communists! This desparate man, who woud stoop so low, try so hard, use any sort of trickeries to gain the notoriety and credibility with the people in SCV, just lost it all! This is how a small bunch of of stupid, ignorant, violent savages, calling themselves Communists, headed by Ho Chi Minh, lied, cheated, terrorized, murdered their ways to seize power of Vietnam, then brought the country into isolation, and forced the people to their knees, begging and prostituting to foreigners just for a few cups of rice at the end of the day! EL CHIMPO and his commie cohorts are dumber than dogs!  They are also shameless and brazen-faced like a bunch of monkeys. They deserve to be despised by everyone. VIET THIET – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – La.i the^m mo^.t tie^?u tu+? so^`n so^`n cu?a Viet [gian?]cong hoa [hoac cua ngo dinh diem hoac cua nguyen van thieu deu giong nhau]. Tie^?u tu+? na`y cu~ng dda(.t ba`y american-english [ddie^`u na`y kho^ng he^` gi`] nhu+ng muo^’n xua^’t co+` thi` i’t ra cu~ng bie^’t lu+o+.ng su+’c mi`nh cho+, vie^’t dda.i thi` vu+`a xa^’u ho^? cho ca’ nha^n chu’ vu+`a ho^? the.n cho ho^`n ma ngo dinh va nguyen van thieu co’ nhu+~ng thu+’ dde^. tu+? do^’t ma` la.i o^`n a`o the^’ na`y; thie^.t dda’m vgch na`y no’ thua co^.ng sa?n mie^`n Ba(‘c la` mo^.t ddie^`u dda.i phu+o+’c cho da^n ta. Ta va.ch nhu+~ng cho^~ sai tu`m lum ve^` american-english cu?a chu’ cho ma` xem na`y [ta khong correct da^u, ve^` ho?i ma^'y tha^`y o+? lo+'p esl o+? adult school ddo' [tie^?u tu+? ma` so vo+'i Le chino thi` gio^'ng nhu+ con chuo^.t chu` be^n ca.nh con su+ tu+? ddo'. Sau la^`n na`y thi` la(.n ddi chu' ma`y!]: Dda^y nhu+~ng cho^~ sai ta bo trong bracket do: EL CHIMPO repeated [ sai thu nhat --- use of extreme obscenity ](D. M.)in SCV shows him to be a sick, old, twisted little pervert, who would not stop [sai thu hai--- at raping] his own mother! [ sai thu ba: khong biet dung English phrase va` cu' pha'p---- EL must have been severely abused as a child, perhaps sodomized daily by his own stupid, ignorant commie dad, and his despicable, animalistic relatives in Hanoi, such that he continually let his [sai thu ba, chua biet gi ve Freud ma dam viet au, viet sai Psychoanalysis Terminology ------ oedipal complex show! El must be sitting around fantasizing about murdering his dad and raping his mom everyday!] [ chua biet cach su dung tu, dat cau, chuyen y [noi chung trinh do rat so dang ---- With his obscenity-filled posts in SCV, El only acts out his frustration [ chua biet cach dung gioi tu 'preposition' --- at the fact that noone takes him seriously for his shameless commies' boot licking act, hoping to make a few quick dollars off the communists for himself! Of course El will take the short cuts and engage in the oldest profession to get what he wants! EL is just a little common, uneducated, unprincipled trash, despised by both communists and anti-communists alike! VIET THIET [Tom tat: khong du trinh do English composition, ma` da'm vie^'t tie^'ng Anh, chu+a ddu? tri`nh do^. die^~n dda.t tu+ tu+o+?ng Viet ngu, thi` la`m sao da'm ca? gan di 'debate' hay 'chu+?i ' ngu+o+`i kha'c. Chu' ma^`y ne^n la(.n ddi dde^? kho?i xa^'u ca? nha` Vie^.t gian.  QUANG TRUNG DAI CO VIET Why I disagreed with Mr World Justice in practically all of his posts, I at least recognize that He tried to be truthfull at least in the

Response:

La.i the^m mo^.t tie^?u tu+? so^`n so^`n cu?a Viet [gian?]cong hoa [hoac cua ngo dinh diem hoac cua nguyen van thieu deu giong nhau]. Tie^?u tu+? na`y cu~ng dda(.t ba`y american-english [ddie^`u na`y kho^ng he^` gi`] nhu+ng muo^’n xua^’t co+` thi` i’t ra cu~ng bie^’t lu+o+.ng su+’c mi`nh cho+, vie^’t dda.i thi` vu+`a xa^’u ho^? cho ca’ nha^n chu’ vu+`a ho^? the.n cho ho^`n ma ngo dinh va nguyen van thieu co’ nhu+~ng thu+’ dde^. tu+? do^’t ma` la.i o^`n a`o the^’ na`y; thie^.t dda’m vgch na`y no’ thua co^.ng sa?n mie^`n Ba(‘c la` mo^.t ddie^`u dda.i phu+o+’c cho da^n ta. Ta va.ch nhu+~ng cho^~ sai tu`m lum ve^` american-english cu?a chu’ cho ma` xem na`y [ta khong correct da^u, ve^` ho?i ma^'y tha^`y o+? lo+'p esl o+? adult school ddo' [tie^?u tu+? ma` so vo+'i Le chino thi` gio^'ng nhu+ con chuo^.t chu` be^n ca.nh con su+ tu+? ddo'. Sau la^`n na`y thi` la(.n ddi chu' ma`y!]: Dda^y nhu+~ng cho^~ sai ta bo trong bracket do: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – EL CHIMPO repeated [ sai thu nhat --- use of extreme obscenity ](D. M.)in SCV shows him to be a sick, old, twisted little pervert, who would not stop [sai thu hai--- at raping] his own mother! [ sai thu ba: khong biet dung English phrase va` cu' pha'p---- EL must have been severely abused as a child, perhaps sodomized daily by his own stupid, ignorant commie dad, and his despicable, animalistic relatives in Hanoi, such that he continually let his [sai thu ba, chua biet gi ve Freud ma dam viet au, viet sai Psychoanalysis Terminology ------ oedipal complex show! El must be sitting around fantasizing about murdering his dad and raping his mom everyday!] [ chua biet cach su dung tu, dat cau, chuyen y [noi chung trinh do rat so dang —- With his obscenity-filled posts in SCV, El only acts out his frustration [ chua biet cach dung gioi tu ‘preposition’ — at the fact that noone takes him seriously for his shameless commies’ boot licking act, hoping to make a few quick dollars off the communists for himself! Of course El will take the short cuts and engage in the oldest profession to get what he wants! EL is just a little common, uneducated, unprincipled trash, despised by both communists and anti-communists alike! VIET THIET [Tom tat: khong du trinh do English composition, ma` da’m vie^’t tie^’ng Anh, chu+a ddu? tri`nh do^. die^~n dda.t tu+ tu+o+?ng Viet ngu, thi` la`m sao da’m ca? gan di ‘debate’ hay ‘chu+?i ‘ ngu+o+`i kha’c. Chu’ ma^`y ne^n la(.n ddi dde^? kho?i xa^’u ca? nha` Vie^.t gian.

QUANG TRUNG DAI CO VIET – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why I disagreed with Mr World Justice in practically all of his posts, I at least recognize that He tried to be truthfull at least in the

Response:

Between Noi Bai and Ha Noi, there is a new bridge whose toll costs all vehicles about $5 each way . . . . . .

At about 14,000 VND per US dollar, that would be about 70,000 VND if you were correct. You aren’t, of course, but that should surprise no one. The tolls on that bridge and the specially built airport highway (the toll is for both) are as follows: Car   –            12,000 VND Bus (9-30 seats) – 20,000 VND Bus (31-50 seats – 30,000 VND Doug

Response:

EL CHIMPO repeated use of extreme obscenity (D. M.)in SCV shows him to be a sick, old, twisted little pervert, who would not stop at raping his own mother! EL must have been severely abused as a child, perhaps sodomized daily by his own stupid, ignorant commie dad, and his despicable, animalistic relatives in Hanoi, such that he continually let his oedipal complex show! El must be sitting around fantasizing about murdering his dad and raping his mom everyday! With his obscenity-filled posts in SCV, El only acts out his frustration at the fact that noone takes him seriously for his shameless commies’ boot licking act, hoping to make a few quick dollars off the communists for himself! Of course El will take the short cuts and engage in the oldest profession to get what he wants! EL is just a little common, uneducated, unprincipled trash, despised by both communists and anti-communists alike! VIET THIET – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why I disagreed with Mr World Justice in practically all of his posts, I at least recognize that He tried to be truthfull at least in the

Response:

Why I disagreed with Mr World Justice in practically all of his posts, I at least recognize that He tried to be truthfull at least in the details (the Devils are in the details!) in his posts so He might preserve some credibility with his Anti Communist followers. Mr Vietthiet is a schizophrenic psychopath.  On one hand he used sexual innuendos to accuse people he know nothing about of which Mr Reese of conducting sex tours, Mr Justice of various sexual offenses for money or not and El Chino his Bete noire, his Jesus Christ he prayed to everyday of kissing VC asses,  are examples! (In a previous post I analysed Mr Vietthiet’s psychpathology as being sexually frustrated.  His obsession with Asses pointed to a latent or overt Homosexuality) On the other hand, He claimed to be advisor to the Politburo members of the VCP, travel up-and-down Vietnam insulting the VC or collecting information where to find sex.  Now He did it in Mexico as well ! All this pointed to a grave state of self delusion or frustrated Megalomania unsuccessfully controlled by visiting whorehouses! We should put VIETTHOT in the same Category as Veekhung, i.e., sexually repressed old men who use SCV as a Group Therapy medium. Elchino Boat People’s conscience had castrated him so thoroughly that he is now incapable of producing a coherent thought. The poor quality of his posts brought to nought his credibility forcing him to make outlandish claims such as this "advisory" role for the VCP Politburo. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have spent a lot of time in Vietnam on business and have mingled with the top party and government officials. Vietnam is a country corrupt from top to bottom. Corruption, cheating and gouging are everywhere. VIETTHIET has been calling everyone else who even suggested the idea of talking to Hanoi’s officials as pimps and whores, yet VIETTHIET admitted that he did businesses and spent a lot of time in Vietnam with party officials.  What a hypocrite! You can guess where I spend all my vacations! VIET THIET PS: Mexican customs (won’t tell you where) even allowed me to fly a beautiful girl, with no passport or any ID, to Cabo San Lucas for a great vacation…That’s how friendly the Mexican law can be if you genuinely try to speak Spanish to them…. What is this? VIETTHIET has been on illegal sex tour in Mexico yet he charged that the entire population of women in Vietnam are either sexually abused or sold as prostitutes by Hanoi. Go to soc.culture.vietnamese and search for all of VIETTHIET’s posts. Everyone can see that VIETTHIET is a double-standard double-face and a sick man. He acted as an anti-communist calling Hanoi as the place where prostitutes are sold by officials.  Now he showed the world that he is on illegal (bringing a beautiful girl with no passport and no ID through the border etc.) sex tour in Mexico. Now we all know why he is so familiar with sex tours.  He is a big client. World Justice

Response:

Shame on you. . . . again. Doug – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The only SEX in this tour was what was burning inside Dog Grease’s old, ugly and horny mother as she cleans the sheets and vacumm the floor of the Mexican resort… VIET THIET PS: Mexican customs (won’t tell you where) even allowed me to fly a beautiful girl, with no passport or any ID, to Cabo San Lucas for a great vacation…That’s how friendly the Mexican law can be if you genuinely try to speak Spanish to them…. What is this? Sounds like some sort of sex tour to me. Shame on you! Doug

Response:

VIETTHIET has been calling everyone else who even suggested the idea of talking to Hanoi’s officials as pimps and whores, yet VIETTHIET admitted that he did businesses and spent a lot of time in Vietnam with party officials.  What a hypocrite!

Feeding monkeys does not make one a monkey! PS: Mexican customs (won’t tell you where) even allowed me to fly a beautiful girl, with no passport or any ID, to Cabo San Lucas for a great vacation…That’s how friendly the Mexican law can be if you genuinely try to speak Spanish to them…. What is this? VIETTHIET has been on illegal sex tour in Mexico yet he charged that the entire population of women in Vietnam are either sexually abused or sold as prostitutes by Hanoi.

Ms. Just Tits is still trying to deny that prostitution is the biggest industry in Vietnam! That a very large percentage of businesses and people in Vietnam derive their living directly and indirectly from prostitution! Everywhere one goes, men, women, children, cab drivers, cyclos are all out selling prostitutes! There have been many reports in the party-controlled press about rampant prostitutes performing sex acts on streets and parks in Saigon and Hanoi, even in the Hoa Lo Hilton Museum, sometimes in broad day light! Only Hanoi has the notoriety of an old college professor, Son Do, who would beat, rape and black mail dozens of his young students into prostitution for the wealthy Communist party apparachiks! How many more Son Do have not been caught? Commercial sex aspracticed by Ms. Just Tits is completely different from flying your girl friend to Cabo for a vacation!  If Ms. Justtits jumps into bed with her syphyllis-ridden boyfriends, is she taking sex tours? Like street girls in Vietnam,  Ms. Just Tits pretends she doesn’t know what sex is, but if someone flashes a few dolar bills, then she is all business….  What a flaming hypocrite she is! Ms. Justtits could not argue on issues so she must attack VIETTHIET with her trashy smear campaign!  And she uses a screen name that laugh! Is the ugly, smelly and therefore sexless Ms. Just Tits getting jealous? VIETTHIET

Response:

The only SEX in this tour was what was burning inside Dog Grease’s old, ugly and horny mother as she cleans the sheets and vacumm the floor of the Mexican resort… VIET THIET – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – PS: Mexican customs (won’t tell you where) even allowed me to fly a beautiful girl, with no passport or any ID, to Cabo San Lucas for a great vacation…That’s how friendly the Mexican law can be if you genuinely try to speak Spanish to them…. What is this? Sounds like some sort of sex tour to me. Shame on you! Doug

Response:

I have spent a lot of time in Vietnam on business and have mingled with the top party and government officials. Vietnam is a country corrupt from top to bottom. Corruption, cheating and gouging are everywhere.

VIETTHIET has been calling everyone else who even suggested the idea of talking to Hanoi’s officials as pimps and whores, yet VIETTHIET admitted that he did businesses and spent a lot of time in Vietnam with party officials.  What a hypocrite! You can guess where I spend all my vacations! VIET THIET PS: Mexican customs (won’t tell you where) even allowed me to fly a beautiful girl, with no passport or any ID, to Cabo San Lucas for a great vacation…That’s how friendly the Mexican law can be if you genuinely try to speak Spanish to them….

What is this? VIETTHIET has been on illegal sex tour in Mexico yet he charged that the entire population of women in Vietnam are either sexually abused or sold as prostitutes by Hanoi. Go to soc.culture.vietnamese and search for all of VIETTHIET’s posts. Everyone can see that VIETTHIET is a double-standard double-face and a sick man. He acted as an anti-communist calling Hanoi as the place where prostitutes are sold by officials.  Now he showed the world that he is on illegal (bringing a beautiful girl with no passport and no ID through the border etc.) sex tour in Mexico. Now we all know why he is so familiar with sex tours.  He is a big client. World Justice

Response:

PS: Mexican customs (won’t tell you where) even allowed me to fly a beautiful girl, with no passport or any ID, to Cabo San Lucas for a great vacation…That’s how friendly the Mexican law can be if you genuinely try to speak Spanish to them….

What is this? Sounds like some sort of sex tour to me. Shame on you! Doug

Response:

Since one could also be nailed for bribing, I had to tough it out, demanding, in very loud voice, that the officials in charge check out my visa and resolve the problems!   They let me go through with sly smiles…

So you didn’t actually have to pay any bribes then, did you! Between Noi Bai and Ha Noi, there is a new bridge whose toll costs all

I don’t think its new – its been there 5 years or so… The variety of taxis I’ve used have never used second hand tickets. (A counterfoil is retained as the ticket is torn.) Not saying it never happens though…. You say: Mexico, compared to Vietnam, is cleaner, safer, less hassled, far more civilized

but then: PS: Mexican customs (won’t tell you where) even allowed me to fly a beautiful girl, with no passport or any ID, to Cabo San Lucas for a great vacation…That’s how friendly the Mexican law can be

It seems you are ranking Mexico ahead of Vietnam on the basis of your ability to corrupt local officials. I think that says more about you and Mexico than it says about Vietnam. Jim

Response:

I was blatantly hassled for bribes many times by Vietnamese Communist Custom officials arriving and departing at both Tan Son Nhut and Noi Bai airport! Since one could also be nailed for bribing, I had to tough it out, demanding, in very loud voice, that the officials in charge check out my visa and resolve the problems!   They let me go through with sly smiles… Between Noi Bai and Ha Noi, there is a new bridge whose toll costs all vehicles about $5 each way (roughly a week salary for a teacher – all public utilities are  very expensive in vietnam, relative to cost of living, as a policy to gouge tourists!). To prevent cheats, the toll is sold by a ticket booth manned by a few policemen, to be checked and collected by other policeman down the road.  The cab drivers, however had worked out arrangements with both the ticket sellers and ticket checkers, to pay $1 at each stage to be able to use an old ticket, saving himself $3 for each passage. I have spent a lot of time in Vietnam on business and have mingled with the top party and government officials. Vietnam is a country corrupt from top to bottom. Corruption, cheating and gouging are everywhere. Eventhough Vietnam was my country of birth, it’s very sad to admit that presently the psychology of cheating, extorting, gouging, stealing and aggression seem to be ingrained in a very large percentage of the population in Vietnam. People in Hanoi tend to be more traditional, even submissive, nice, sweet, helpful, less aggressive. People in South Vietnam are far ruder and more aggresive, and will blatantly try to take advantage of tourists at every turn. Since the criminal laws in Vietnam is very vague,  it is safer for tourists to assume that every local government officials can throw them in jail for long term without any legal process, and they are most likely to extort, harm and steal from the people in need! I have traveled to just about every state in Mexico, a poor third world country, doing business and spending long vacations there.  In contrast, the people of Mexico, even in poor and rural areas, are far more honest, friendly, upfront and helpful with tourists, even for someone who cannot speak the language.  They sell everything at the same prices to locals or tourists.  I never had a problem or was cheated in Mexico!  NOT EVEN ONCE in my hundreds of trips to Mexico! Unlike Vietnam whose Communist government sets higher prices for tourists and actively forces the tourist-related services to gouge and cheat tourists by imposing high taxes…. Mexico, compared to Vietnam, is cleaner, safer, less hassled, far more civilized and fun for tourists. Mexico with  clean beaches, warm water, good food, honest, fun and friendly people, low crimes, large varieties of arts, crafts, jewelry,  reasonable prices, great parties, and many water sports, great big game fishing  ( Vietnamese tunas only grow to 12 inch maximum before they are dynamited out of the water…) is much better place to do business or to vacation.  My top Mexico vacation spots :  Cancun, Isla Cozumel, Acapulco, Cabo San Lucas, Guadalajara, Puerta Vallarta, Ixtapa, Ensenada…. You can guess where I spend all my vacations! VIET THIET PS: Mexican customs (won’t tell you where) even allowed me to fly a beautiful girl, with no passport or any ID, to Cabo San Lucas for a great vacation…That’s how friendly the Mexican law can be if you genuinely try to speak Spanish to them…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It may be old information; but, my wife and I were shaken down by customs guards at Tan Son Nyut Airport. And it was very subtle.  It turned into a very vocal argument concerning the amount of the bribe.  The price went down from $50 to $20.  Of course, the shakedown at the Hanoi Airport was far more subtle.

Response:

Question:

It all depends on the type of fishing and the material the rod is made from.  I don’t care for Bamboo rods over 7.5 feet, Fiberglass rods over 8 feet and Graphite rods over 9 feet.  When fishing small streams I prefer shorter rods because you can move through the brush easier. When fishing lakes and large rivers long rods are better. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have decidet to buy Loop green line rod aftm 5-6. Only problem is the rod`s length, 8,8 feet or 9,3 feet(no 9feet  )? What is the differense between these length in fishing? Im castin in a midle size river. My previously rod was 9 feet.

Response:

For general fishing purposes the longer the rod the better, up to a certain point, so I would go for the nine foot three inch model.   A great fly-caster I once knew was of the opinion that 9

Question:

I now wade the same water *without* the scarey vibrations.

I get the vibrations even with my Folstaf.  That tells me I better not walk into that water. Mu

Response:

Hello: Who is the manufacturer of Folstaff wading staffs? Bob

Response:

Hello: Who is the manufacturer of Folstaff wading staffs?

Fly-Tyer

Question:

Just one other point, a very wise man once said to me when I asked him if something was a good idea " If you have to think very long and very hard about it, and are still not sure, don’t do it".

Excellent point. Right now I’m leaning to getting the horses. It all depends on how my stock options pan out. Money can turn what otherwise would be a terrible idea into an excellent idea.

Response:

<equine opine snipped PS-Stay away from llamas, they are for grass maggot (sheep) herders and a major pain (attitudes).

Spoken like a true Montanan. Welcome, Warren. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Vaccinations twice a year are a good idea, and if you have the money (it sounds like you do), vet checks are a good idea. Have the vets come out and worm/vaccinate twice a year, and they’ll spot something early that you might not, especially as a beginner.

And DON’T forget to get a vet check BEFORE you buy a horse.  It can save you a ton of money in the long run.   Vaccinations are a good idea, but not necessary unless the horses are going to come into contact with tons of other horses.  I guess the main reason we don’t is that we have too many and it is easier to treat on an as needed basis. However, for two, better to be safe than sorry is a good philosophy.  It really isn’t that expensive to do it yourself. The key is keeping the vet away unless necessary.  So the more you learn and are able to do, the less reliance you will have on a vet to come out and give shots/worm. Worming is easy, just a tube that shoots out measured amounts of a paste based upon the body weight (you actually set the tube with the weight and it premeasures sort of).  Just have to make sure to get it way back in the mouth so they don’t spit it out. Most stuff is fairly easy and you will pick it up as you go.  It kind of helps you bond with the animal and the animal with you.  I can’t put into words how important the relationship is between a horse and a rider, but it involves lots of trust and patience.  It will eventually turn into a bond that will hopefully last a lifetime. I would also suggest that maybe you start taking riding lessons before you buy horses.  The instructor will be able to teach you many things about horse care and horsemanship that will be invaluable down the road. Warren

Response:

I’m partial to llamas in the backcountry. They can carry 100-120 lbs of gear (but not you), their padded feet are easier on the trails than a horse’s hoofs and they browse and eat their own food instead of grazing on scarce mountain grasses.

Llamas are out of the question. For one thing I need an animal to carry ME for one or two days, not 120 lbs of gear. For another thing, I’d be laughed out of Custer County.

Response:

I’m not, nor will I ever be, an equestrian. But I’ve known enough of them that I’m familiar with some of the potential pitfalls of horse ownership. The best way to sum it up is to say that on a cost/hour basis, horses don’t make much economic sense for the casual fisherman. I realize that boarding costs are highly variable, presumably driven by geography and relative cost of living, but the prospect of shelling out thousands of dollars annually for a couple months’ usage would certainly be a sobering prospect indeed for many of us. Another point to consider: ATV’s are replacing working horses on some ranches (for some jobs). I bet it’s because they’re ‘cheaper to keep’. Good luck.

ATVs aren’t allowed most places I want to go. They don’t even allow mountain bikes. Also, I’m not looking at this as a purely economic deal. I like horses and I like riding them. I’m mainly concerned about the learning curve because I’ve never kept them before.

Response:

Get the horses.  As a matter of fact buy some of my inlaws horses.  I already crash tested one. Seriously, horses are great for hunting and fishing trips.  You won’t need to ship them out to CA for the winter either.  We have over 40 head and keep them outside all winter long up here in Montana. As to feeding. That depends on how much room you have there.  You might get by with grazing them off the pasture if it is big enough and then feeding them hay in the winter.  Hay isn’t all that expensive really.  A horse needs about 2% of its body weight of feed a day.  A 1200 lb horse comes out to a wopping 24 pounds of hay.  Don’t know what the hay prices down there are, but up here it is about $60/ton of good alfalfa. As far as routine medications, just wormer once a year.  Maybe twice a year to be safe.  Want to be even safer?  Worm them or have them wormed before you bring them home.  Shouldn’t have to see a vet at all.  With 40 head we have had the vet out twice this year.  Both horses got caught in a fence.  One while rolling on the ground and got collicky because it was in the fence for several hours overnight and twisted (bad for horses intestines).  The other we think was kicking at a dog and got its legged stuck in a coral panel.  That one was pretty nasty. Try to find a book on horse care and read it for yourself and decide how much hassle it will be for you. Cost wise they are not too bad.  The big pain is in the beginning.  You can find a younger (5-10 year old horse) that is well broke for around $1,500. Then saddles and the other tack, well that depends on new or used.  Make sure you actually sit in the saddle before you buy one.  Ideally you want to sit in it on the horse to get a good feel for it.  Usually can’t though so just make sure you butt isn’t too big (or small).  You won’t need a fancy roping saddle or anything so used you can probably pick one up for about $400-500.  Shop around!  Read the classifieds, check out feed stores (sometimes they have bullentin boards with horses and tack for sale). Being on the high side, look to spend about $6,000 for 2 horses and tack and another $600 or so a year on hay. There are several things you can to do in taking care of horses to make them less at risk for disease, injury, and sickness so arm yourself with knowledge and make the decision afterwards. Happy Trails and Tight Lines. Warren PS-Stay away from llamas, they are for grass maggot (sheep) herders and a major pain (attitudes).

Response:

I’m not, nor will I ever be, an equestrian. But I’ve known enough of them that I’m familiar with some of the potential pitfalls of horse ownership. The best way to sum it up is to say that on a cost/hour basis, horses don’t make much economic sense for the casual fisherman. I realize that boarding costs are highly variable, presumably driven by geography and relative cost of living, but the prospect of shelling out thousands of dollars annually for a couple months’ usage would certainly be a sobering prospect indeed for many of us. Another point to consider: ATV’s are replacing working horses on some ranches (for some jobs). I bet it’s because they’re ‘cheaper to keep’. Good luck. Jeff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The very best flyfishing in my area (central Idaho) is fairly inaccessible. There are excellent wilderness rivers and backcountry lakes that require some pretty heroic hiking to get to, if you’re not rafting. Once you get there, though, you have it all to yourself, aside from the odd backpacker or two. I’m thinking of getting a couple of horses. I have room for a nice paddock next to my cabin. It’s also a consideration that my older daughter adores horses, and I made the potentially serious mistake of mentioning this idea to her. It’s really, really tempting. The other day, while hiking out from a backcountry lake and sweating blood, a couple of horseback riders passed me going up the trail at a fast trot. They were like gods. It looked so wonderful. My problem is that I have virtually no experience keeping horses. Just a few pack trips. How difficult is it? I’m what you’d call an animal-oriented person. I’ve always had lots of dogs and cats and a multitude of other creatures, but no horses. I figure that at a minimum I’d have to build a fence for the paddock, buy all the gear (in addition to the horses), find a ferrier and a large-animal vet, get a two-horse trailer, and arrange for someone to take care of them for the short periods when I’m not around. Then there’s the question of what to do with them in the winter. I figure I could trailer them back to my home in northern California (Menlo Park) and board them at one of the many stables here. These stables mostly cater to Woodside billionaires, but what the heck. It can’t be that expensive for a few months. Is this a stupid idea? Will I regret it?

Response:

The very best flyfishing in my area (central Idaho) is fairly inaccessible. There are excellent wilderness rivers and backcountry lakes that require some pretty heroic hiking to get to, if you’re not rafting. Once you get there, though, you have it all to yourself, aside from the odd backpacker or two. I’m thinking of getting a couple of horses.

I’m partial to llamas in the backcountry. They can carry 100-120 lbs of gear (but not you), their padded feet are easier on the trails than a horse’s hoofs and they browse and eat their own food instead of grazing on scarce mountain grasses. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Sounds like a great idea to me. If you have the time and possibilities, and can afford it, do it, but check the prices at those stables etc first, you may be very unpleasantly surprised, also horses involve a lot of care and work, far more than one imagines. Trailering them is also a pain, for you and for the horses. Mountain bikes can be thrown in the cabin or garage when you are done with them, don’t eat, don’t crap, and don’t get ill apart from an occasional broken chain etc. They cost much less than horses, they are less likely to get stolen, or run away, they are not edible to any great degree, and can not be turned into sausage meat, they do not wear extremely costly handmade steel shoes which require frequent replacement,  do not require horrendously expensive injections and medications at regular intervals, and they also require no looking after when you are absent. They do not engender quite as much enthusiasm on the part of dutiful daughters ( dutiful at least until the first ton of horse manure has to be shovelled out of somewhere ! ) I know a couple of the aforementioned daughters ! Their parents own quite a few horses. Quite amazing how often they have "urgent appointments" when the novelty has worn off, and the animals have to be groomed or cleaned out etc etc. If your daughter wants to ride, rent a horse for her for a while until you are certain she will keep it up and it is worth it. I know all this because I help out ( which usually means I shovel horse shit ! ) for the chance of an occasional ride on one of my friends horses. Not trying to dissuade you in any way, just playing advocatus diaboli. Just one other point, a very wise man once said to me when I asked him if something was a good idea " If you have to think very long and very hard about it, and are still not sure, don’t do it". TL MC

Response:

The very best flyfishing in my area (central Idaho) is fairly inaccessible. There are excellent wilderness rivers and backcountry lakes that require some pretty heroic hiking to get to, if you’re not rafting. Once you get there, though, you have it all to yourself, aside from the odd backpacker or two. I’m thinking of getting a couple of horses. I have room for a nice paddock next to my cabin. It’s also a consideration that my older daughter adores horses, and I made the potentially serious mistake of mentioning this idea to her. It’s really, really tempting. The other day, while hiking out from a backcountry lake and sweating blood, a couple of horseback riders passed me going up the trail at a fast trot. They were like gods. It looked so wonderful. My problem is that I have virtually no experience keeping horses. Just a few pack trips. How difficult is it? I’m what you’d call an animal-oriented person. I’ve always had lots of dogs and cats and a multitude of other creatures, but no horses. I figure that at a minimum I’d have to build a fence for the paddock, buy all the gear (in addition to the horses), find a ferrier and a large-animal vet, get a two-horse trailer, and arrange for someone to take care of them for the short periods when I’m not around. Then there’s the question of what to do with them in the winter. I figure I could trailer them back to my home in northern California (Menlo Park) and board them at one of the many stables here. These stables mostly cater to Woodside billionaires, but what the heck. It can’t be that expensive for a few months. Is this a stupid idea? Will I regret it?

Response:

Question:

______ The prettiest Western Dry Fly in all the world.  I don’t know about Eastern opinions on this but  I suppose it would have to be the Light Cahill or Hendrickson?  I love them all, really.  I love dry flies, period. I wish some of you would start submitting your signature fly to our "Flies of the World" web site listed below.  See Mike Connor’s examples.  Don’t any of you eastern boys know how to tie a dry fly for christ sake?  You guys have only one good fly tier their, I think and his name is George Harvey.  I thought he taught fly tying out that way in Pennsylvania and about?  You DO know what a dry fly is in North Carolina now, don’t you boys?  They sure don’t, in Arkansas. ; ) George *twitch —

Question:

Uh-Oh…I think someone just turned on the heater it’s starting to get hot in here….. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To all sponsoring and/or midwiving the BASTARD: The news surrounding the birth of the BASTARD is nothing short of fantastic. As a fan of split-cane rods, I salute these efforts and think everyone should have the chance to own and fish a properly tooled and crafted cane rod.  So what about the BASTARD?  Does anyone out there really think that a split-cane rod can be produced for $300???!!!  HELLO?!  ARE WE ALL THAT DELUDED??!!?? Cane hex blanks alone wholesale for over $200 and quadrates are double that. But the BASTARDS will be made from cheap cane in a no-nonsense fashion, as if a BLANK has any nonsense. Cheap cane is cheap because it is covered either with water marks or grower’s marks.  I know, I know…the BASTARD aesthetic is not concerned with aesthetics.  But grower’s marks typically go through the enamel and sever the power bundles.  Yes, this effects casting, noticeably.  Really.  Cane costs could be reduced by making one-tip rods, but that cuts the life of the BASTARD in half. What about the tapers?  Initially, it would be easy enough to sell only one taper/length in each line weight; there are plenty of tapers out on the web. But soon customers won’t be so patient.  You’ll need more.  That means taking the time to reset you planing forms and triple-check the depth.  Then you’ll have to test out guide spacing on each different taper.  Time, time. What about tooling?  To put up with the rigors of production, you’ll have to get decent tooling.  Your cheapest tools will be your planing forms (~$800 for one that will last) and planes (at least four; as much as you want them to be, but don’t skimp on the blades).  Don’t forget your beveler and binder which together go for the price of a year’s tuition at an Ivy-league school.  A good depth guage is a car payment.  And don’t forget your wrapper, whipping thread, sock, tube…  To keep costs down I guess you don’t have to worry about the finish, just use tung-oil.  Then you don’t need varnish, dip-tanks, color-preserver, or any of that.  But tung-oil rods *often* won’t last a half of a decade. What about hardware?  Snakes and tip-tops are no big deal, but forget about the agate (or even agatine) stripper.  If you find a good agate stripper for less than $30, then you haven’t found agate. (Doesn’t sound like much, but that’s already 10% of your rod.)  To keep costs down, what’s wrong with SiC? Hook-keepers?  Anyone who’s read Garrison knows that American cane rod-makers don’t use hook-keepers.  It’s called a stripping guide. Yup.  Saved money there.  Reel seats?  Forget fancy, how about alder?  Don’t even get me started on ferrules. If you can somehow get all the above costs diffused through an enormous production run so that they retail for under $500, you still haven’t paid you labor.  Even if it’s a labor force of one, Mr. G, he’ll need to eat once in a while.  Hobbyists can finish a cane rod in about 40-50 man-hours.  Custom rods from the 30 or so who make cane rods for a living (full-time) take about 80-100 man-hours.  These folks probably want to charge a little more than minimum wage. There are reasons that cane rods cost as much as they do, and there are reasons that the many attempts to produce low-cost cane rods in the last 30 years have failed.  What you get in a properly made and well-crafted cane rod is not only a superior fishing instrument, but a piece of American history. The cane-rod industry is one of the last in this country that consists of independent artisans who apprentice under masters and continue to improve upon the tradition.  If you read up on the history of cane-rods you’ll notice that even though split-cane and greenheart originated in the UK, the modern tradition of split-cane rods is American and any reputable rod-maker can trace his apprenticeship back to a 19th century master.  Yes, they still cost a lot, but if you ever talk to a full-time rod-maker (at the FFF or somewhere) you’ll see that no one gets rich making rods, they do because they love it. And finally…Is there a real difference between cane and graphite or glass? Well, is there a difference between an Aston-Martin and a Geo?  or is there a difference between Night Train and the Famous Grouse?  Both cars will get you where you want to go and both drinks will eventually get you drunk, but I guess it depends on how you want to get there.  Maybe a better analogy is shaving with garden-shears or a straight razor.  One is clumsy and potentially painful and the other, with a little practice, is an instrument of precision and tradition that is a pleasure to use and surpasses all. If you decide to get a split-cane rod, get the right one for the right reasons.  Don’t get any old BASTARD because it is cheap.  Perhaps the BASTARD will be the rod that will change the ff-ing world.  Perhaps not.  But at least talk to a cane rod-maker (check out the cane Rodmakers page at http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm) to see what kind of rod they can make you and what their rods can do over a production rod. Oh, but I doubt any of of those rodmakers would be able to seel you a Marryat reel.  Tough luck. The Tonkin Kid

Response:

To all sponsoring and/or midwiving the BASTARD:

and George began his reply: ______ That is me, "tonkin kid".  Talk to me.  I’m the man.  I’m the uno numeruno Bastard you need to address yourself too.  Now then?  You were saying?

(remainder of repartee snipped, in my never-ceasing attempt to save band-width) Go get’em George.  We can’t have these blithering naysayers ruining our fun. Mark Faulkner

Response:

‘kid,’ is licking his wounds.  He will heal though and will come back to try to learn  more about us. O.G.O

Response:

Tonkin Kid, I think you should change your name to "The Foolium Kid". 1. Do you know what the price of a bundle of Tonkin cane is. 2. Do you know the average number of good culms in a bundle of Tonkin cane? 3. Do you know how many rods with extra tips can be built with one culm? 4. Do you know how many strips a man using power tools can plain in a day? 5. Do you know how many blanks one man can finish in a day? 4. Do you know what the mark up is on a bamboo rod? I don’t know where you buy your hardware and materials but you won’t ever find me there.  I have seen figures just like yours trying to justify the cost of graphite rods also, but you should peddle your foolium elsewhere, I am not in the market. Ernie Harrison

Response:

To all sponsoring and/or midwiving the BASTARD: The news surrounding the birth of the BASTARD is nothing short of fantastic. As a fan of split-cane rods, I salute these efforts and think everyone should have the chance to own and fish a properly tooled and crafted cane rod.  So what about the BASTARD?  Does anyone out there really think that a split-cane rod can be produced for $300???!!!  HELLO?!  ARE WE ALL THAT DELUDED??!!?? Cane hex blanks alone wholesale for over $200 and quadrates are double that. But the BASTARDS will be made from cheap cane in a no-nonsense fashion, as if a BLANK has any nonsense.   Cheap cane is cheap because it is covered either with water marks or grower’s marks.  I know, I know…the BASTARD aesthetic is not concerned with aesthetics.  But grower’s marks typically go through the enamel and sever the power bundles.  Yes, this effects casting, noticeably.  Really.  Cane costs could be reduced by making one-tip rods, but that cuts the life of the BASTARD in half. What about the tapers?  Initially, it would be easy enough to sell only one taper/length in each line weight; there are plenty of tapers out on the web. But soon customers won’t be so patient.  You’ll need more.  That means taking the time to reset you planing forms and triple-check the depth.  Then you’ll have to test out guide spacing on each different taper.  Time, time. What about tooling?  To put up with the rigors of production, you’ll have to get decent tooling.  Your cheapest tools will be your planing forms (~$800 for one that will last) and planes (at least four; as much as you want them to be, but don’t skimp on the blades).  Don’t forget your beveler and binder which together go for the price of a year’s tuition at an Ivy-league school.  A good depth guage is a car payment.  And don’t forget your wrapper, whipping thread, sock, tube…  To keep costs down I guess you don’t have to worry about the finish, just use tung-oil.  Then you don’t need varnish, dip-tanks, color-preserver, or any of that.  But tung-oil rods *often* won’t last a half of a decade. What about hardware?  Snakes and tip-tops are no big deal, but forget about the agate (or even agatine) stripper.  If you find a good agate stripper for less than $30, then you haven’t found agate. (Doesn’t sound like much, but that’s already 10% of your rod.)  To keep costs down, what’s wrong with SiC? Hook-keepers?  Anyone who’s read Garrison knows that American cane rod-makers don’t use hook-keepers.  It’s called a stripping guide. Yup.  Saved money there.  Reel seats?  Forget fancy, how about alder?  Don’t even get me started on ferrules. If you can somehow get all the above costs diffused through an enormous production run so that they retail for under $500, you still haven’t paid you labor.  Even if it’s a labor force of one, Mr. G, he’ll need to eat once in a while.  Hobbyists can finish a cane rod in about 40-50 man-hours.  Custom rods from the 30 or so who make cane rods for a living (full-time) take about 80-100 man-hours.  These folks probably want to charge a little more than minimum wage. There are reasons that cane rods cost as much as they do, and there are reasons that the many attempts to produce low-cost cane rods in the last 30 years have failed.  What you get in a properly made and well-crafted cane rod is not only a superior fishing instrument, but a piece of American history. The cane-rod industry is one of the last in this country that consists of independent artisans who apprentice under masters and continue to improve upon the tradition.  If you read up on the history of cane-rods you’ll notice that even though split-cane and greenheart originated in the UK, the modern tradition of split-cane rods is American and any reputable rod-maker can trace his apprenticeship back to a 19th century master.  Yes, they still cost a lot, but if you ever talk to a full-time rod-maker (at the FFF or somewhere) you’ll see that no one gets rich making rods, they do because they love it. And finally…Is there a real difference between cane and graphite or glass? Well, is there a difference between an Aston-Martin and a Geo?  or is there a difference between Night Train and the Famous Grouse?  Both cars will get you where you want to go and both drinks will eventually get you drunk, but I guess it depends on how you want to get there.  Maybe a better analogy is shaving with garden-shears or a straight razor.  One is clumsy and potentially painful and the other, with a little practice, is an instrument of precision and tradition that is a pleasure to use and surpasses all. If you decide to get a split-cane rod, get the right one for the right reasons.  Don’t get any old BASTARD because it is cheap.  Perhaps the BASTARD will be the rod that will change the ff-ing world.  Perhaps not.  But at least talk to a cane rod-maker (check out the cane Rodmakers page at http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm) to see what kind of rod they can make you and what their rods can do over a production rod. Oh, but I doubt any of of those rodmakers would be able to seel you a Marryat reel.  Tough luck.   The Tonkin Kid

Response:

To all sponsoring and/or midwiving the BASTARD:

______ That is me, "tonkin kid".  Talk to me.  I’m the man.  I’m the uno numeruno Bastard you need to address yourself too.  Now then?  You were saying? Oh?  By the way – Refer to me from now on as "O.G.O." The news surrounding the birth of the BASTARD is nothing short of fantastic.

As a fan of split-cane rods, I salute these efforts and think everyone should have the chance to own and fish a properly tooled and crafted cane rod.  So what about the BASTARD?

dense quality Imported Just For this bastard. Does anyone out there really think that a split-cane rod can be produced for $300???!!!

HELLO?!  ARE WE ALL THAT DELUDED??!!??

Cane hex blanks alone wholesale for over $200 and quadrates are double that.

But the BASTARDS will be made from cheap cane in a no-nonsense fashion, as if a BLANK has any nonsense.

more careful on who you’re talking too here ‘tonkin kid’.  Is that it?  "Tonkin Kid?"  Are you saying you have the market cornered on cheap bamboo?  Sorry.  We don’t want any. Cheap cane is cheap because it is covered either with water marks or grower’s marks.  I know, I know…the BASTARD aesthetic is not concerned with aesthetics.

BASTARD BAMBOO FLY ROD.  This fly fishing world is ready for a Beautiful Bastard – and this is it.  In fact, you’re beginning to qualify for one. But grower’s marks typically go through the enamel and sever the power bundles.  Yes, this effects casting, noticeably.  Really.  Cane costs could be reduced by making one-tip rods, but that cuts the life of the BASTARD in half.

equate your kind of foolishness with a high quality BASTARD FLY ROD.  "Don’t Tread On Me Dude"  Just might become a Bastard Model.  Thank goodness, nothing you’ve said so far applies to a BASTARD FLY ROD.  "Half Life," looks more promising to the "tonkin kid," buddy.  Where do you get off making such outlandish statements and lies?  Do you work for Bill Clinton? What about the tapers?

Initially, it would be easy enough to sell only one taper/length in each line weight; there are plenty of tapers out on the web.

But soon customers won’t be so patient.

You’ll need more.  That means taking the time to reset you planing forms and triple-check the depth.  Then you’ll have to test out guide spacing on each different taper.  Time, time.

BASTARD BAMBOO FLY ROD.  Like I said.  I’m rich. What about tooling?  To put up with the rigors of production, you’ll have to get decent tooling.

tooling is the best in the world.  Do you want to come and work for me? Your cheapest tools will be your planing forms (~$800 for one that will last) and planes (at least four; as much as you want them to be, but don’t skimp on the blades).  Don’t forget your beveler and binder which together go for the price of a year’s tuition at an Ivy-league school.  A good depth guage is a car payment.  And don’t forget your wrapper, whipping thread, sock, tube…  To keep costs down I guess you don’t have to worry about the finish, just use tung-oil.  Then you don’t need varnish, dip-tanks, color-preserver, or any of that.  But tung-oil rods *often* won’t last a half of a decade.

shop.  Everything is free except raw materials.  You need to get your planing forms from someone that doesn’t screw you all the time, kid.  It was "kid" – right? What about hardware?  Snakes and tip-tops are no big deal, but forget about the agate (or even agatine) stripper.  If you find a good agate stripper for less than $30, then you haven’t found agate. (Doesn’t sound like much, but that’s already 10% of your rod.)  To keep costs down, what’s wrong with SiC? Hook-keepers?  Anyone who’s read Garrison knows that American cane rod-makers don’t use hook-keepers.  It’s called a stripping guide. Yup.  Saved money there.  Reel seats?  Forget fancy, how about alder?  Don’t even get me started on ferrules.

have too but, I will admit I’d rather just buy them ready made.  You’re down to nickle/dime stuff.  Hardware.  No mystery in hardware.  If we can’t buy it at a price that is fair, we will make it right here. Kid, you just don’t know what the hell  you’re talking about.  If we can build it cheaper, guess what the choice is going to be? If you can somehow get all the above costs diffused through an enormous production run so that they retail for under $500, you still haven’t paid you labor.  Even if it’s a labor force of one, Mr. G, he’ll need to eat once in a while.  Hobbyists can finish a cane rod in about 40-50 man-hours.  Custom rods from the 30 or so who make cane rods for a living (full-time) take about 80-100 man-hours.  These folks probably want to charge a little more than minimum wage.

person operation.  Automation on as much as is possible is guaranteed.  Those ‘full time’ rod makers have to cut the vacations and coffee breaks pal. I just love it when all these losers keep equating how others should run their businesses.  Has anyone latched onto that yet?  "Welllllllll?"  They think.  If it takes ME 100 hours to make a bamboo fly rod, that means its going to take you 100 hours too." wrong! There are reasons that cane rods cost as much as they do, and there are reasons that the many attempts to produce low-cost cane rods in the last 30 years have failed.  What you get in a properly made and well-crafted cane rod is not only a superior fishing instrument, but a piece of American history. The cane-rod industry is one of the last in this country that consists of independent artisans who apprentice under masters and continue to improve upon the tradition.  If you read up on the history of cane-rods you’ll notice that even though split-cane and greenheart originated in the UK, the modern tradition of split-cane rods is American and any reputable rod-maker can trace his apprenticeship back to a 19th century master.  Yes, they still cost a lot, but if you ever talk to a full-time rod-maker (at the FFF or somewhere) you’ll see that no one gets rich making rods, they do because they love it.

BASTARDS. And finally…Is there a real difference between cane and graphite or glass?

_______Well, gee?  I don’t know?  Is there a difference between land and water? The moon and the sun?  Your wife as compared to mine?  Golfing in the middle of a street and a fairway?  You tell us kid.  This is a heavy question. Well, is there a difference between an Aston-Martin and a Geo?  or is there a difference between Night Train and the Famous Grouse?  Both cars will get you where you want to go and both drinks will eventually get you drunk, but I guess it depends on how you want to get there.  Maybe a better analogy is shaving with garden-shears or a straight razor.  One is clumsy and potentially painful and the other, with a little practice, is an instrument of precision and tradition that is a pleasure to use and surpasses all.

qualified.  Park it dude.  Your engine is racing but your tires are standing still.  All this has NOTHING to do with   BASTARD FLY RODS.  You have not one, single, base point to stand on.  You are just (to be perfectly frank) a baseless opinion.  A noise.  A silent fart in church.  You are way off base on nearly everything.  But!  That is okay.  We get them like you here all the time.  We just need to soften you up a little and get you drunk a time or two.  We might even teach you how to be a success.  Here, anything is possible.  Even for you kid. If you decide to get a split-cane rod, get the right one for the right reasons.  Don’t get any old BASTARD because it is cheap.

pine tree all the time?  Just LISTEN to yourself!  Quote:  "Don’t get any old BASTARD because it is cheap."  Well, there are no other BASTARDS and these are not old.  Right away, you make yourself out an idiot of principle, ‘kid’. This also isn’t ANY old BASTARD.  That is another mistake.  It is my BASTARD FLY ROD COMPANY and you have NO RIGHT to say or ASSUME the things you’re doing here . . . kid. (God, I love this place!) Perhaps the BASTARD

‘hope’ for ‘the kid.’  What do you guys think?  Is he or is not ‘the kid’ qualifying as a real bastard who should own a bastard? will be the rod that will change the ff-ing world.

life.  How do we know?  Because you’re HERE!  It is everyone’s pleasure to meet a cynic such as  yourself.  You

… read more »

Response:

Question:

Hello,   How can I find out more about flyfishing rivers in Middle Tn.?

Response:

Hello,  How can I find out more about flyfishing rivers in Middle Tn.?

Hi Kevin You will probably get an answer from someone on this newgroup.  However if you do not don’t dispair, call the Federation of Fly Fishers and ask about a club in your area.  Get the contact info from the FFF and call the club contact person (usually the president).  From there you can get information, join the club, make new fishing friends, etc. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

Response:

Question:

        There are five spring ponds on one of Alberta’s largest ranches which have just been opened to flyfishing. The ranch is bordered by the Belly and Waterton Rivers in the southwest of the province, not far from the Montana border.         The scenery is beautiful and so are the trout. Rainbows of over 20" are not uncommon and they cruise the ponds feeding on prolific mayfly, caddis and midge hatches.         If you like to stalk large trout, this is for your.         A friend, Matt Sparrow, is the keeper and he may be contacted by telephoning 403-626-3050. The cost is C$50 per day (for now) and food and lodging may be arranged at the comfortable bunkhouse. Guiding and local flies are also available.

Response:

   There are five spring ponds on one of Alberta’s largest ranches which have just been opened to flyfishing. The ranch is bordered by the Belly and Waterton Rivers in the southwest of the province, not far from the Montana border.

So are those "poor ranchers" not making end meet on cows,that they have to jump into FF ?    The scenery is beautiful and so are the trout. Rainbows of over 20" are not uncommon and they cruise the ponds feeding on prolific mayfly, caddis and midge hatches.

I hope that all those Rainbows get whirling disease,just to take away any  possible profit out from all those  who want make    If you like to stalk large trout, this is for your.    A friend, Matt Sparrow, is the keeper and he may be contacted by telephoning 403-626-3050. The cost is C$50 per day (for now) and food and lodging may be arranged at the comfortable bunkhouse. Guiding and local flies are also available.

If your friend is trying turn this country into Europe or UK with "pay and fish" attitude maybe you should tell him about * Fishing License".How many times do you have to pay for a privilege to fish ?? How many greedy bastards do we have to feed?? Don’t support anybody who is trying to charge you for "just fishing" or you will find yourself in situation :"one day fishing $ 50.00 ,100.00 ,400.00 who knows where the end is *and you may keep the fish too* if you put "XY"amount of $ down. Please anybody from UK,or rest of Europe who can put more light into this ?Thank you. Have nice day Karel K.

Response: