Question:

I have guide trips booked on the Bitterroot and Beaverhead in late August. Some of the fly shop reports say don’t bother going. My guides say there will be plenty of water and that the Bitterroot will start having more water in the next few days from dam releases. What is the real story?? Thanks.

Response:

It’ll be worth it no matter what. One of the more beautiful places in the world you can spend time sitting in a boat. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have guide trips booked on the Bitterroot and Beaverhead in late August. Some of the fly shop reports say don’t bother going. My guides say there will be plenty of water and that the Bitterroot will start having more water in the next few days from dam releases. What is the real story?? Thanks.

Response:

The Beaverhead is absolutely not fishable!  Just kidding, actually there have been some good reports.  It looked easier to fish from a boat than wading though. Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Fishable from ‘dam releases’??? The Bitterroot is a freestone. There is Painted Rocks Reservoir but it’s not a large body of water and I don’t think they are going to increase the release from it any time soon (at least till rain and/or September comes. I even question it then. There is still water in the river but the lower portion is less than half its normal flow. FWP has already requested people not fish or restrict their fishing to early morning/late evening. What with the dry conditions and all, don’t be surprised if they temporarily ban fishing. The Blackfoot, for example, reached it’s ‘drought implementation plan’ level yesterday. Now they are asking people to stop irrigating, etc. so they can keep a minimum flow in there for the fish. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have guide trips booked on the Bitterroot and Beaverhead in late August. Some of the fly shop reports say don’t bother going. My guides say there will be plenty of water and that the Bitterroot will start having more water in the next few days from dam releases. What is the real story?? Thanks.

Response:

Question:

Really getting fixated on this one…..anxious to try out some of my woolies in other waters…..got a link for white miller flies?…..john

  Joe Bruce from the Anglers Edge here in Baltimore (the man writes very good books and makes videos on catching smallies with a fly rod), suggests a White Wulff.  I can see where this would work.  For all parts of a Wulff fly, use white materials.   They seem to be perfect. A size 14 or 16 as the White Miller mayfly on the mid-Atlantic rivers (as opposed to the White Miller caddis) is a perfect size 15.    We will be at the last gasps of the white miller hatch on the 19- 20th of August.  The bass may still hit on a white pattern because of conditioning.  Or it may be because a fish will hit whatever pisses him off.  Its worth a try.    BTW, Frank Church and I will be on site from the evening of Friday the 18th.  If anyone wants to drop in, there will be a cold one available.                            Frank Reid                              F Before you buy.

Response:

John, bring that kayak and get ready for some fun.  If the river levels hold you will be in for a real treat. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Really getting fixated on this one…..anxious to try out some of my woolies in other waters…..got a link for white miller flies?…..john Dianna and I tripped down to the Rappahannock today and visited the campground.  Pictures will be available tomorrow sometime.  I talked with one of the campground owners and with a friend who guides the Rappahannock. Seems a 5 lb. smallie came from the rapids just above the campground, caught by one of the happy campers.  The guide was fishing this past week and had a little 10 inch smallie on.  Before he could strip it in a BIG smallie rose from the bottom of the pool and nailed it!  SIX POUNDS!!!  After a fine day of fishing we were on the way off the river this afternoon.  I handed my wife my 6 wt. with the lead-eyed hellgrammite and I picked up the Connor 4 wt. with the White Miller dry.  I tried a couple of fish then hit a Damsel fly in mid-cast with the Miller.  The Damsel fluttered to the water about 4 feet from me and twitched a couple of times, WHAM!!  The bass nearly caused an enviromental castrophe.  I dropped the Miller just beyond the splash and gave a couple of twitches, WHAM!!! again.  This time with hook set.  Nice little smallie. #12 White Millers with an occasional twitch and black Murray’s Lead-eyed Hellgrammite workrd wonders today.  Saw Millers all day and a hatch underway just after noon for about 30 minutes.  The top of the river got real busy. A good time was had by all. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Response:

My OE screen says the post was at 8:40 pm.  Lower right hand clock is dead on.  Could it be the posting news server in another time zone?  I’ve noticed this with other posters. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snipped] For crying out loud, Wayne, what’s it going to take to get you to correctly set your computer’s clock? Or do I need to contact your ISP? Seriously, your post (the one I’m responding to) shows up on my server as having been sent at 11:40pm. I’m responding at 10:05pm, so I’m guessing somewhere between your PC and mine there’s a machine that is off by 2 hours. Your posts have been that way for several months. What gives? –Steve (and my those smallies do sound fun)

Response:

I used to think he was a mind reader and was answering posts before you made them.  :-) Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – simple……tiime flies when yur having fun….john [snipped] For crying out loud, Wayne, what’s it going to take to get you to correctly set your computer’s clock? Or do I need to contact your ISP? Seriously, your post (the one I’m responding to) shows up on my server as having been sent at 11:40pm. I’m responding at 10:05pm, so I’m guessing somewhere between your PC and mine there’s a machine that is off by 2 hours. Your posts have been that way for several months. What gives? –Steve (and my those smallies do sound fun)

Response:

Frank Sr.    If your grill doesn’t work, don’t worry, I’ve got some buffalo chips saved from Nebraska as a backup.  Cook them steaks up real nice.  Keeps the skeeters down too.            Frank Jr. Before you buy.

Response:

Er, ah, maybe you ought to bring ‘tater chips instead of buffalo chips, no offense. :-/ Frank Sr. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Frank Sr.   If your grill doesn’t work, don’t worry, I’ve got some buffalo chips saved from Nebraska as a backup.  Cook them steaks up real nice.  Keeps the skeeters down too.           Frank Jr. Before you buy.

Response:

Damn Wayne, if you keep this up I don’t know if I can wait until 18 Aug to do battle with those fishies.  Wuz gonna bring my pontoon boat but it is not designed for river floating (some of the frame hangs very close to the water line under my seat) this could make for some interesting results if I get hung up on a rock in rapids, etc.  I could visualize starting the float as a tenor and coming in to camp as a soprano. :-] Hey, I can live with just wade-fishing.  BTW, Frank Jr. and I have decided steaks would be nice so I am bringing my portable gas grill…FWIW. Frank (one hung low) Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John, bring that kayak and get ready for some fun.  If the river levels hold you will be in for a real treat.

Response:

Well Pugs, my son is a Navy Chaplain, if you need ‘counseling’ to overcome your grief at missing the mini-clave, I’m sure he could help you out.  Only problem is you’d have to fly in to Naples for said counseling.  Think you could handle that?  ;-)) Frank (boy, do I need counseling!)  Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wayne, Please stop! Your continued posting of how good the fishing is going to be at the Clave makes me want to drop my orders to PR in the shredder.  Aren’t you aware of the consequences? Why without this trip the people of Vieques Island will have to go without the sound of freedom over their heads or ordnance impacting the dirt at all hours of the night. I guess I can always hope for a hurricane to head that way to cancel the whole thing then I’ll be clave bound! Cheers, Allen Epps Excuse at the ready: "But Hon I have to go to the clave, you expected me to be on det for two weeks anyway" Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

My OE screen says the post was at 8:40 pm.  Lower right hand clock is dead on.  Could it be the posting news server in another time zone?  I’ve noticed this with other posters.

Your posts are always off (in time anyway<g) for me too, the one I am replying to now says it was posted at 11:38am, but it’s only 8:37am here (EDT). FWIW. — Charlie…

Response:

Allen, As Executive Director of a Military History Museum I can appreciate your quandry.  One of our Board Members works with the Joint Chiefs.  Perhaps I can arrange to have the island moved off the coast of Virginia and you can fly out of NAS.  There is a small airfield in Spotsylvania County, Shannon Field.  You can get a Harrier in there without any problem.  Also a large grassy field at the campground store.  A SeaKing will fit nicely. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wayne, Please stop! Your continued posting of how good the fishing is going to be at the Clave makes me want to drop my orders to PR in the shredder.  Aren’t you aware of the consequences? Why without this trip the people of Vieques Island will have to go without the sound of freedom over their heads or ordnance impacting the dirt at all hours of the night. I guess I can always hope for a hurricane to head that way to cancel the whole thing then I’ll be clave bound! Cheers, Allen Epps Excuse at the ready: "But Hon I have to go to the clave, you expected me to be on det for two weeks anyway" Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Wayne, The offer is certainly much appreciated. In fact we have to hop through NAS Oceana fuel pits on the way to Key West then to Roosey. The USNA wants a fly-by for the plebes taking their oath and I just know they’ll hold us at low alt for a while resulting in not enough fuel to one leg it to Key Weird. If we get to PR and the island has moved. I’ll immediatly re-file back to Norfolk and look for it off the coast! Of course, near VA rum won’t be 2.95 a gallon so sacrifies will have to be made by the clavsters if I show up. Cheers, Allen Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Don’t want him anywhere near me with that noisy old EA-6b.  I don’t even want to think about what those trons spittin’ out of his antenna would do to a highly conductive graphite rod.  Then again, he does have a couple of munitions available that would make getting that fish out of the heavy sunken brush a bit easier.      Frank Reid Before you buy.

Response:

Wayne, Please stop! Your continued posting of how good the fishing is going to be at the Clave makes me want to drop my orders to PR in the shredder.  Aren’t you aware of the consequences? Why without this trip the people of Vieques Island will have to go without the sound of freedom over their heads or ordnance impacting the dirt at all hours of the night. I guess I can always hope for a hurricane to head that way to cancel the whole thing then I’ll be clave bound! Cheers, Allen Epps Excuse at the ready: "But Hon I have to go to the clave, you expected me to be on det for two weeks anyway" Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Dianna and I tripped down to the Rappahannock today and visited the campground.  Pictures will be available tomorrow sometime.  I talked with one of the campground owners and with a friend who guides the Rappahannock. Seems a 5 lb. smallie came from the rapids just above the campground, caught by one of the happy campers.  The guide was fishing this past week and had a little 10 inch smallie on.  Before he could strip it in a BIG smallie rose from the bottom of the pool and nailed it!  SIX POUNDS!!!  After a fine day of fishing we were on the way off the river this afternoon.  I handed my wife my 6 wt. with the lead-eyed hellgrammite and I picked up the Connor 4 wt. with the White Miller dry.  I tried a couple of fish then hit a Damsel fly in mid-cast with the Miller.  The Damsel fluttered to the water about 4 feet from me and twitched a couple of times, WHAM!!  The bass nearly caused an enviromental castrophe.  I dropped the Miller just beyond the splash and gave a couple of twitches, WHAM!!! again.  This time with hook set.  Nice little smallie. #12 White Millers with an occasional twitch and black Murray’s Lead-eyed Hellgrammite workrd wonders today.  Saw Millers all day and a hatch underway just after noon for about 30 minutes.  The top of the river got real busy. A good time was had by all. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Response:

[snipped] For crying out loud, Wayne, what’s it going to take to get you to correctly set your computer’s clock? Or do I need to contact your ISP? Seriously, your post (the one I’m responding to) shows up on my server as having been sent at 11:40pm. I’m responding at 10:05pm, so I’m guessing somewhere between your PC and mine there’s a machine that is off by 2 hours. Your posts have been that way for several months. What gives? –Steve (and my those smallies do sound fun)

Response:

simple……tiime flies when yur having fun….john – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snipped] For crying out loud, Wayne, what’s it going to take to get you to correctly set your computer’s clock? Or do I need to contact your ISP? Seriously, your post (the one I’m responding to) shows up on my server as having been sent at 11:40pm. I’m responding at 10:05pm, so I’m guessing somewhere between your PC and mine there’s a machine that is off by 2 hours. Your posts have been that way for several months. What gives? –Steve (and my those smallies do sound fun)

Response:

Really getting fixated on this one…..anxious to try out some of my woolies in other waters…..got a link for white miller flies?…..john – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dianna and I tripped down to the Rappahannock today and visited the campground.  Pictures will be available tomorrow sometime.  I talked with one of the campground owners and with a friend who guides the Rappahannock. Seems a 5 lb. smallie came from the rapids just above the campground, caught by one of the happy campers.  The guide was fishing this past week and had a little 10 inch smallie on.  Before he could strip it in a BIG smallie rose from the bottom of the pool and nailed it!  SIX POUNDS!!!  After a fine day of fishing we were on the way off the river this afternoon.  I handed my wife my 6 wt. with the lead-eyed hellgrammite and I picked up the Connor 4 wt. with the White Miller dry.  I tried a couple of fish then hit a Damsel fly in mid-cast with the Miller.  The Damsel fluttered to the water about 4 feet from me and twitched a couple of times, WHAM!!  The bass nearly caused an enviromental castrophe.  I dropped the Miller just beyond the splash and gave a couple of twitches, WHAM!!! again.  This time with hook set.  Nice little smallie. #12 White Millers with an occasional twitch and black Murray’s Lead-eyed Hellgrammite workrd wonders today.  Saw Millers all day and a hatch underway just after noon for about 30 minutes.  The top of the river got real busy. A good time was had by all. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Response:

Question:

As a Corporate Pilot we regularly tip the line guys & gals who give us good service….  I don’t think I have ever had anyone turn down the cash….  On the other hand if service is mediocre or poor a tip is out of the question…. Mark Captain – Falcon 50EX / Falcon 900EX – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh, no. I never thought about that. I’ve been flying for several years and I never thought about tipping them. I do try to buy gas unless their tie down fee is high in which case I just grumble to myself and leave. I’ve had some line guys do nice things too like… 1) Run out in the rain to open the door before I get to the plane. 2) Run out and push the heavy Debonair back for me (usually also in the rain)… 3) Give me a ride into town. Usually it seems that the line guys who do nice stuff enjoy the planes and being around them. The guys who are only doing it for a job don’t bother. They are usually so friendly I might feel strange handing them a couple bucks. Kind of like tipping a friend, it might feel petty. But them again, perhaps I’ve been missing it…. So what’s the consensus on tipping line-guys/gals?  Is it different if they chock/chain and fuel you versus giving you a ride to the FBO, main terminal, renal place, etc.?  If you do, how much? —  Southwest Fisheries Science Center  P.O. Box 271  La Jolla, CA 92038  858-546-7072, 7003 (FAX)  "Marine Biologist?!…I didn’t   even know that WAS a job!"        - George Costanza  "Get off the cross, we need   the wood."        - Tori Amos Before you buy.

Response:

Urine my sights now pal!  ;)

Hey, I didn’t mean to piss you off! — Alex Transpose first two letters of return address to reply by email.

Response:

Urine my sights now pal!  ;) Hey, I didn’t mean to piss you off!

Sorry, it just leaked out of me.  But, that’s all water under the bridge.  Next time I’ll be a bit more a-comode-ating. —  Southwest Fisheries Science Center  P.O. Box 271  La Jolla, CA 92038  858-546-7072, 7003 (FAX)  "Marine Biologist?!…I didn’t   even know that WAS a job!"        - George Costanza  "Get off the cross, we need   the wood."        - Tori Amos

Response:

Can I offer chocolate chip cookies instead of cash?

Response:

While we never tip our line guys here in Iowa City (the one time I tried, they turned me down), we DO bring a dozen fresh donuts to the FBO every Sunday morning. And there is ALWAYS a cold one in our fridge in our hangar for them. — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Warrior N33431

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So what’s the consensus on tipping line-guys/gals?  Is it different if they chock/chain and fuel you versus giving you a ride to the FBO, main terminal, renal place, etc.?  If you do, how much? —  Southwest Fisheries Science Center  P.O. Box 271  La Jolla, CA 92038  858-546-7072, 7003 (FAX)  "Marine Biologist?!…I didn’t   even know that WAS a job!"        - George Costanza  "Get off the cross, we need   the wood."        - Tori Amos

Response:

So what’s the consensus on tipping line-guys/gals?  Is it different if they chock/chain and fuel you versus giving you a ride to the FBO, main terminal, renal place, etc.?  If you do, how much?            ^^^^^ Well, if they are taking you there for dialysis, I think a tip is definitely in order! <g

Urine my sights now pal!  ;) —  Southwest Fisheries Science Center  P.O. Box 271  La Jolla, CA 92038  858-546-7072, 7003 (FAX)  "Marine Biologist?!…I didn’t   even know that WAS a job!"        - George Costanza  "Get off the cross, we need   the wood."        - Tori Amos

Response:

: Having been a former lineboy, believe me they will get over it! If you : still feel awkward, offer to take them for an airplane ride. By the time I : was old enough to legaly solo, I had stick time in 14 different types of : aircraft including Beech 18’s, 450hp Stearman, Pitts, Baron, turbo & : retract’s, all the Cessnas and Pipers, etc. I’ve taken all the line guys at SPX flying in the C140 (even on cross countries). One of the line guys at SPX just happens to be my Cessna 140 partner as well! (I can’t really call him a lineboy – he is married and four years older than me <g) — Dylan Smith, Houston TX. Flying: http://www.alioth.net/flying Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net "Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

Response:

I never thought of it like that. That’s a really good insight, thanks for the post. Next time I’m over there (in the USA) I’m going to make sure I have some dollar bills on me. You’ve made me feel really guilty for not tipping the guy at Gainesville now! They put a red carpet out for me, and gave me a lift to the FBO in a golf buggy. I suppose that’s just me being a tight Brit (tipping is much rarer here than it is in the US). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Carrying a stack of one dollar bills in my shirt pocket is just as important to me as having current approach plates, always ready to reward the guys who help me out.

Response:

1) Run out in the rain to open the door before I get to the plane. 2) Run out and push the heavy Debonair back for me (usually also in the rain)…

sounds like you need a high wing <gd&r — Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Response:

So what’s the consensus on tipping line-guys/gals?  Is it different if they chock/chain and fuel you versus giving you a ride to the FBO, main terminal, renal place, etc.?  If you do, how much?

           ^^^^^ Well, if they are taking you there for dialysis, I think a tip is definitely in order! <g — Alex Transpose first two letters of return address to reply by email.

Response:

HAHA… I love it!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So what’s the consensus on tipping line-guys/gals?  Is it different if they chock/chain and fuel you versus giving you a ride to the FBO, main terminal, renal place, etc.?  If you do, how much?                ^^^^^ Well, if they are taking you there for dialysis, I think a tip is definitely in order! <g — Alex Transpose first two letters of return address to reply by email.

Response:

Oh, no. I never thought about that. I’ve been flying for several years and I never thought about tipping them.

Here we go again. You tip the waiters at any restraunt that doesn’t have a drive thru window, don’t you? Why wouldn’t you tip a line boy that services your aircraft that costs as much as a house? You fly out to the Bahamas and tip the crew of your chartered fishing boat handsomely, and they are just going to snort it up their nose that night. I have been on all sides of this spectrum from being the lineboy at a flight school/FBO to now being the owner/operator of a high performance aircraft (Ain’t America Great!?!?) I remember the few dozen times I was tipped (once by an aircraft thief!) when I was a lineboy. I made sure that the guys (and girl) who tipped me had their windshields washed, the ant’s nests around their tiedown spots were destroyed, if they were having a hard time starting their engine, I would get the GPU ready BEFORE they killed their battery… [snip] They are usually so friendly I might feel strange handing them a couple bucks. Kind of like tipping a friend, it might feel petty. But them again, perhaps I’ve been missing it….

[snip] Having been a former lineboy, believe me they will get over it! If you still feel awkward, offer to take them for an airplane ride. By the time I was old enough to legaly solo, I had stick time in 14 different types of aircraft including Beech 18’s, 450hp Stearman, Pitts, Baron, turbo & retract’s, all the Cessnas and Pipers, etc. Times to tip the lineboy: When he fuels the airplane and doesn’t chip the paint or spill fuel on your plane. When they give you a ride to the FBO office when you have been parked out in the boondocks. When they unload your bags from the plane while you are streching your legs after a long flight. When they run out to your plane in hurricane force wind and rain with an umbrella so _YOU_ and your passengers don’t get wet. When they tow your airplane from an area that is flooded up to the axials to a high and dry parking spot during/after a rain storm so _YOUR_ shoes don’t get soaked. Carrying a stack of one dollar bills in my shirt pocket is just as important to me as having current approach plates, always ready to reward the guys who help me out. Obligitory pilot joke: What is the difference between a pilot and a canoe?   Sometimes a canoe will tip. — dan<atlynxtel.com Spam Bait: Honk If You’ve Never Seen An Uzi Fired From A Car Window

Response:

So what’s the consensus on tipping line-guys/gals?  Is it different if they chock/chain and fuel you versus giving you a ride to the FBO, main terminal, renal place, etc.?  If you do, how much? —  Southwest Fisheries Science Center  P.O. Box 271  La Jolla, CA 92038  858-546-7072, 7003 (FAX)  "Marine Biologist?!…I didn’t   even know that WAS a job!"        - George Costanza  "Get off the cross, we need   the wood."        - Tori Amos

Response:

Oh, no. I never thought about that. I’ve been flying for several years and I never thought about tipping them. I do try to buy gas unless their tie down fee is high in which case I just grumble to myself and leave. I’ve had some line guys do nice things too like… 1) Run out in the rain to open the door before I get to the plane. 2) Run out and push the heavy Debonair back for me (usually also in the rain)… 3) Give me a ride into town. Usually it seems that the line guys who do nice stuff enjoy the planes and being around them. The guys who are only doing it for a job don’t bother. They are usually so friendly I might feel strange handing them a couple bucks. Kind of like tipping a friend, it might feel petty. But them again, perhaps I’ve been missing it…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So what’s the consensus on tipping line-guys/gals?  Is it different if they chock/chain and fuel you versus giving you a ride to the FBO, main terminal, renal place, etc.?  If you do, how much? —  Southwest Fisheries Science Center  P.O. Box 271  La Jolla, CA 92038  858-546-7072, 7003 (FAX)  "Marine Biologist?!…I didn’t   even know that WAS a job!"        - George Costanza  "Get off the cross, we need   the wood."        - Tori Amos

Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hairy Trout writes: Now we have Hairy Trout telling us that "David H is real."  But, who is Hairy Trou?.  Can we trust him?  Is he just another of Mr. G’s aliases? Look in GG’s archives and see if you can find references to Doug Knight. That’s who ‘hairy’ is, he actually went to work with George for a while but things ‘didn’t work out’<g. <g is right. "didn’t work out" may be the understatement of 1999… It’s more like wouldn’t work out. The Company was to be turned over to my control but it wasn’t.  And when it was I was treated as a mere Forman. Big fukin’ Joke. The real fraud was that he was wasting my time. In reality he couldn’t make his mill work. I DID. When I left, my secrets went with me. I figured that the time I spent there was worth at least 15K plus expenses. There were many promises made which were basically worthless. Much like everything else about the operation. Rub the Genies Lamp. What he learned in 8 months I learned in 6 short weeks and that frightened him. There a has been a toughen biting silence on my part since August

All I can say, Doug, is live and learn.  You obviously can not trust some people.  I am willing to bet that Dave H. is either one of George’s employees, or a new found friend not yet corrupted.  I think most appreciate your candid remarks about George and his operation.  Perhaps Dave H.  will soon join you. Dave L.

Response:

And Dave H earns the Plonk of the Week Award. THIS IS SPAMING

<ad nauseum

Response:

THen would he have qualified as a ff’er? If so maybe HE could have shown me how to cast properly and then be able to enjoy more of this sport<G Inner demons have kept me at this game and I am afraid mine will keep me on the river and the tying bench as well. Ghosts of fish to be caught and those that got away will haunt me forever!! Merry Xmas to all Pierre – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – THIS IS SPAMING THIS IS SPAMING THIS IS SPAMING An appropriate simile would be that of Edgar A. Poe.  A brilliant man, a literay giant.  But alas there the simile ends.  For he too was driven by the inner demons.  Suffering bouts alcholic binges, he would abstain and attempt self medication with available depressants, much like some do today with anti-depressants…so ineptly named. The chemical imbalance somewhat interuppted, he would again then be functional for a short while before the manic-depressive personality disorder manifested itself. Thank god he didn’t have the internet……the good would have been lost among the endless drivel. A shame too, that they didn’t have a good twelve step program at that time, for it deals with the manner of ones thinking, the drinking being only a symptom. Who votes that we forward every damned item in this newsgroup to our own….E.A. Poe…oughta occupy his damend fingers for a while, eh?…. by the way….the kid really got off on the norad/santa thing…..thanks for

Response:

<snipped Dave, I did a little investigating.  Mr. David Henney’s ISP is southwind.net, which is based out of Wichita, Kansas and they outsource their news service to bcandid.com.   bc.

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says… THen would he have qualified as a ff’er? If so maybe HE could have shown me how to cast properly and then be able to enjoy more of this sport<G Inner demons have kept me at this game and I am afraid mine will keep me on the river and the tying bench as well. Ghosts of fish to be caught and those that got away will haunt me forever!! Merry Xmas to all Pierre

Ah Pierre, You should not have to complain! I hear it is warmer out your way that this end of the earth! Head out to the outlet from Bonnybrook and do some Catch and Release! The output from the plant is warmer and the trout should still be lingering around there! I am not sure what the water flow is on the Bow now but if I recall correctly it should be pretty low in the winter… — Michael Era

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Hi Farns, No I haven’t worked for a software company although I do derive my livelihood in a tougher hi-tech industry that survives (or not) when a company provides second class service or a product that just doesn’t work right first time.   I don’t possess a copy of Fly! so my comments are/were generic and aimed at no Publisher in particular.  There is one well known major publishing house that consistently thinks ‘close enough is near enough’ and their Ops Normal is to release today and patch tomorrow to get the cash. Such attitides pressure the developers into wrapping a product at a deadline regardless of build standard.  These guys usually respond to bug problems only after they get caught out and if people scream loud enough.  In some cases publishers stonewall, and keep their heads firmly embedded in their asses and pretend products are without fault. By any appraisal of the complaints, and some responses from the Publishers, some propblems were known at pressing and others are so obvious  it’s hard to figure out why they were let slip by.  Says a lot about the Beta Testers for different Publishers who – from my personal knowledge – are typically ‘yes men’ afraid to open their mouths and delay production.  Some Publishers just don’t like bad news and some Beta Testers just like the freebies.  Both do consumers a disservice. If you have continual ready access to on-line updates that takes much of the annoyance out of buying an untested product.  From what I read here Fly! has not made a lot of friends because of that philosophy.   The purpose of my posting was to say that a lot do not have what you and I take for granted.  It would be nice to believe that publishers would listen to these daily wake-up calls and show the consumers – who put food on their tables when it’s all said and done – a little more consideration.  Nobody is perfect – least of all moi but – but some just never learn from past mistakes. Let’s not forget that this is all about having fun.  When the crass commercialism makes it less fun and more stress, folks are more likely to go back to playing golf or fishing rgds, — Steve Small Canberra, Australia

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regarding Re: Fly! Give’em a break: We understand, they work hard for a software in version 1.0 And first patch is already out.  They post announcements on www.avsim.com free site compared to their competitor (flightsim) –  wich is great since is open to everybody.

<SNIP The limited membership registration for www.flightsim.com is free, I’m using it and it works fine. So it is open to everybody , you just have to register. — Tomas Wil

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Anybody know of a lure resembling a Cicada (cyclical locust)?  Is there a company that might be able to custom-make such a device? — Ellard Douglas Imagine if time was logarithmic, and we were just living an exponential existence!                   Timothy D. Kuehn Comments made by Ellard Douglas do not represent the policies of CMS. By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer meet the definition of a telephone fax machine.  By Sec.227(b)(1)(C), it is unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to such equipment, punishable by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500, whichever is greater, for each violation.

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There is a lure called a Cicada made by Reef Runner Lure Co. It works quite well ! Look fer it in  Bass Pro Shops or Cabela’s catalogs.

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If you are into fly fishing, try a big muddler minnow & add floatant. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is a lure called a Cicada made by Reef Runner Lure Co. It works quite well ! Look fer it in  Bass Pro Shops or Cabela’s catalogs.

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Question:

To: All Oregon Fly Fishers This is an invitation to *all* who are interested in fly fishing in Oregon to join the Oregon Council Federation of Fly Fishers’ new e-mail listserv. The purpose of the listserv is to create a forum focused on fly fishing in Oregon.  Since snail mail and newsletters to the Oregon Council’s 2,200 members will take some time, I encourage you to forward this notice to anyone interested. To subscribe, send e-mail as follows:      subscribe orcfff-l Note that the subject line if left blank, and the command "subscribe orcfff-l" is placed all alone on the first line of the message body. Soon thereafter you will receive a "confirmation" number which you must return to complete the subscription (it prevents malicious people from signing you on and off the list without your consent). To obtain more information before subscribing, send e-mail:      info orcfff-l In addition to the open "general" list, there is a closed "conservation" list for those deeply dedicated to fish and habitat conservation matters. I will screen applicants to those who actively engage private, state and federal entities in fish conservation matters (e.g. ODFW basin plans, ODF Forest Practices Act, Option 9, ESA, stream gravel removal). The conservation list is "orcfff-cons-l". Thomas Gilg VP Conservation, Oregon Council of the Federation of Fly Fishers Chair, Mid-Willamette Fly Fishers

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: subscribe orcfff-l :

If you’re having problems subscribing, note the following:    - The last character in "orcfff-l" is a lower case "L",      not the number "1" (one).  If your mailer is like mine,      the font is exactly the same    - Unlike many mail lists, the orcfff lists add an      extra step in the subscription process (see *):            with a line in it that looks something like         4) Your subscription should be complete. If you still can’t get through, please let me know. Thomas Gilg

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Question:

i did not know so many people liked bone fishing!!

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i did not know so many people liked bone fishing!!

Actually, I think it is only the ones that have tried it. It is very exciting. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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Question:

A good friend of mine is an outfitter in Montana and has just finished   his new web site. He was to bashful to post the address on this BB, but I’m not! Check it out at: http://www.iigi.comos/montana/diamondn/diamondn.htm Catch ya later Dale Owens

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Correction on the web site address: note that all slashes are forward. I typed one in as a back slash by mistake. Dale

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Question:

I’m interested in attending a beginner’s flyfishing class in the Atlanta area (ie casting, bug selection, reading rivers, etc).  Can somebody recommend a good class and/or instructor in GA? Thanks, JimmyJam

You can contact the various TU and FFF offices around the city or call one of shops that cater to Fly Fishermen (Altanta Flyfishing Outfitters, FishHawk, Classic Angler). —         Butch

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Call John Mann at 351-9290. He is an excellent beginning teacher, affiliated with Trout Unlimited and The Fish Hawk.  When you get profficient, write me back. I’ll take you to some of the best runs in No. Ga. Tell John, Craig Winner says hey.

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