Question:

BTW- Moby, I’ve killfiled you based on all your moans and groans. Have a great life tho!

I seem to have developed a cult following….  Must be my irresistable charm and stuff. Does this mean I get a percentage of the gross sales? Moby. The dry wit of ages….

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I seem to have developed a cult following….  Must be my irresistable charm and stuff. If you had "irresistable charm and stuff" then "cult following" would be spelt slightly differently… Alvey

You broke me up with that one.

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BTW- Moby, I’ve killfiled you based on all your moans and groans. Have a great life tho!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For those ppl to whom I have been an evil bitch…. I am sorry.   There is no excuse for the way I ripped into you.  No matter how much I disagreed with your posts, I should not have ’spoken’ to you in that manner. I suspect that those who should receive this apology have added me to their killfile, but no matter, I will have to rely upon word of mouth. I certainly don’t think this is the last time I will have to apologise to somebody for being ‘evil’ but hey…where’s the fun in 100% manners 100% of the time?

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I certainly don’t think this is the last time I will have to apologise to somebody for being ‘evil’ but hey…where’s the fun in 100% manners 100%

of the time? Yeah… just ask some of the Aussie cricket team. : ) Nick

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For those ppl to whom I have been an evil bitch…. I am sorry.   There is no excuse for the way I ripped into you.  No matter how much I disagreed with your posts, I should not have ’spoken’ to you in that manner. I suspect that those who should receive this apology have added me to their killfile, but no matter, I will have to rely upon word of mouth. I certainly don’t think this is the last time I will have to apologise to somebody for being ‘evil’ but hey…where’s the fun in 100% manners 100% of the time? The ability to apologise is a rare (and treasured) thing in newsgroups. Good onya. Now all you need is a catchy sig and you’ll be away… Alvey In Brisbane, unable to think of a catch sig right at this point in time.

It’s certainly enough for me to remove a poster from the kill-file It’s probably the one thing that separates the decent ng members from the riff-raff: the ability to apologise and admit mistakes. Although I have nfi which particular one you’re apologising for. Moby.

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For those ppl to whom I have been an evil bitch…. I am sorry.   There is no excuse for the way I ripped into you.  No matter how much I disagreed with your posts, I should not have ’spoken’ to you in that manner. I suspect that those who should receive this apology have added me to their killfile, but no matter, I will have to rely upon word of mouth. I certainly don’t think this is the last time I will have to apologise to somebody for being ‘evil’ but hey…where’s the fun in 100% manners 100% of the time?

Apologise to people in this group ?  You are not anevil bitch but a stupid one

Response:

For those ppl to whom I have been an evil bitch…. I am sorry.   There is no excuse for the way I ripped into you.  No matter how much I disagreed with your posts, I should not have ’spoken’ to you in that manner. I suspect that those who should receive this apology have added me to their killfile, but no matter, I will have to rely upon word of mouth. I certainly don’t think this is the last time I will have to apologise to somebody for being ‘evil’ but hey…where’s the fun in 100% manners 100% of the time?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For those ppl to whom I have been an evil bitch…. I am sorry.   There is no excuse for the way I ripped into you.  No matter how much I disagreed with your posts, I should not have ’spoken’ to you in that manner. I suspect that those who should receive this apology have added me to their killfile, but no matter, I will have to rely upon word of mouth. I certainly don’t think this is the last time I will have to apologise to somebody for being ‘evil’ but hey…where’s the fun in 100% manners 100% of the time?

The ability to apologise is a rare (and treasured) thing in newsgroups. Good onya. Now all you need is a catchy sig and you’ll be away… Alvey In Brisbane, unable to think of a catch sig right at this point in time.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, all summer I have laughed at the Aussies as they lost relentlessly to the Kiwis, whom I rated as third rate. Boy, what I fool I look now. The Kiwis have just beaten world class cricketers England in a series somewhere. While the Aussies seemed to be addicted to losing to the Kiwis the Poms never lay down and nor did the easybeat South Africans. Now that New Zealand have tri-dicked the Aussies and dished up good serves to the Protias and won a series, albeit at home, to a classy side like the pom, I have to confess that New Zealand seems to have found 11 blokes with what it takes to play the game well. Well done to them, let’s hope it catches on and we learn to beat the Aussies at real sports, like fly fishing. – - – http://www.crackersport.com

I knew the title was too good to be true. You got me Oswald! Rourkster

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Well, all summer I have laughed at the Aussies as they lost relentlessly to the Kiwis, whom I rated as third rate. Boy, what I fool I look now. The Kiwis have just beaten world class cricketers England in a series somewhere. While the Aussies seemed to be addicted to losing to the Kiwis the Poms never lay down and nor did the easybeat South Africans. Now that New Zealand have tri-dicked the Aussies and dished up good serves to the Protias and won a series, albeit at home, to a classy side like the pom, I have to confess that New Zealand seems to have found 11 blokes with what it takes to play the game well. Well done to them, let’s hope it catches on and we learn to beat the Aussies at real sports, like fly fishing. – - – http://www.crackersport.com

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Question:

You can say that again!  I don’t suppose anyone gets out as much as they would like.  

I didn’t mean you, I meant daytripper. The HWMNBN stuff is probably hard to follow if you’re new around here (aka still sane). <g — Charlie…

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You can say that again!  I don’t suppose anyone gets out as much as they would like.   I didn’t mean you, I meant daytripper. The HWMNBN stuff is probably hard to follow if you’re new around here (aka still sane). <g

He’s even a little hard to follow if you’re grizzled and insane

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(HWMNBN won’t be able to trot *that* canard out anymore)…

Ah, the trotting of the canards… I used to be a fan until that night in Marseilles when I had a grand on a mallard to place at 12-1.  It was running neck and neck with the leader until the home stretch, where the goddam thing came up lame and couldn’t finish the race.  That’s when I realized the whole thing was fixed. Kevin, still disillusioned.

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(HWMNBN won’t be able to trot *that* canard out anymore)… Ah, the trotting of the canards… I used to be a fan until that night in Marseilles when I had a grand on a mallard to place at 12-1.  It was running neck and neck with the leader until the home stretch, where the goddam thing came up lame and couldn’t finish the race.  That’s when I realized the whole thing was fixed. Kevin, still disillusioned.

Still, it’s better than running with the canards at Pamplona……boy could get culled doing that.    :( Wolfgang

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That’s when I realized the whole thing was fixed.

And why most just lope their mule… <g — Charlie…

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I can only say that nothing I have read would make me reluctant to post to ROFF.  As a matter of fact, I would expect any group interested in Fly fishing to have a disproportionate number of curmudgeons. Welcome, Jim!  Everyone here (with the exception of a troll) has been exceedingly kind and helpful to me, despite the fact I am very new to fly fishing

Geez! All of this good karma made me post again, after having nuked myself pretty much out of existence here other than lurking – Sandy, if you can put up with what you have, then I see no reason for me keep lurking, especially since the salmon and steelheading is going so well here in Southern Oregon – a buddy of mine landed a 33" (28lb +/-) hen chinook on a 6wt Saturday (#6 Beadhead CDC Prince), gave one of the flies to a guy just upstream, then helped that guy land what had to be a 32-35 lb jack… and they were fishing for steelhead. Jim, Welcome. -Gus http://gstrandesigns.tripod.com/flyfishing.htm

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Geez! All of this good karma made me post again, after having nuked myself pretty much out of existence here other than lurking – Sandy, if you can put up with what you have, then I see no reason for me keep lurking, especially since the salmon and steelheading is going so well here in Southern Oregon – a buddy of mine landed a 33" (28lb +/-) hen chinook on a 6wt Saturday (#6 Beadhead CDC Prince), gave one of the flies to a guy just upstream, then helped that guy land what had to be a 32-35 lb jack… and they were fishing for steelhead.

Cool!  Then we’ll expect TRs and maybe even photos posted to alt.binaries.pictures.fishing very soon.  :^)  Welcome back, Gus.  Don’t sweat the small stuff.  Fishing and fun and friends are what’s important, and there’s plenty of that here. Sandy — "…the sport and game of angling is the true means and cause that brings a man into a merry spirit, which…makes a flowering age and a long one." ~~ Dame Juliana Berners 1496

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here in Southern Oregon – a buddy of mine landed a 33" (28lb +/-) hen chinook

Whoa! That is a fat fish! Mu

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Kissass. — Citizen Fisherman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cool!  Then we’ll expect TRs and maybe even photos posted to alt.binaries.pictures.fishing very soon.  :^)  Welcome back, Gus.  Don’t sweat the small stuff.  Fishing and fun and friends are what’s important, and there’s plenty of that here. Sandy —

Response:

I have only posted to this group once, so I guess it would be fair to say I am a newbie.  I guess I could also be considered a Lurker because I have continued to follow threads hear and there for the last couple months, as time permits, but I have not contributed. I can only say that nothing I have read would make me reluctant to post to ROFF.  As a matter of fact, I would expect any group interested in Fly fishing to have a disproportionate number of curmudgeons.  This is not meant as a slight, I enjoy and respect many crurmudgeons.  When someone takes heat on this group, they usually deserve it and the criticism teaches newbies, like me, simple lessons.  (Posting shamless marketing or large pictures is a no-no.)  The lessons are also entertaining. My position as a Lurker will probably erode over time.  At this point in time, my major limitation is time.  My kids keep me quite busy and it is fun to be with them.  I guess you could call them my primary hobby.  Reading a few post here and there is quick and I can do it at odd hours.  I sometimes cannot look at ROFF for weeks, so my contributions would be disjoint at best.  I really enjoy trip reports and many are truly works of art.  The only thing I find intimidating about ROFF would be to producing a a small whitefish trip report in a riffle loaded with quality trout. I have learned much from this group.  (For example: I need to give the Henry’s Fork another try and now I know why it appears that I catch more than twice the number of trout when I use a dropper.  I guess I can thank Bruce for both.) I will go fishing with my brothers in a few weeks and I hope the trip gives me enough material for a good report.  The thing I need most to contribute to ROFF is content.

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I will go fishing with my brothers in a few weeks and I hope the trip gives me enough material for a good report.  The thing I need most to contribute to ROFF is content.

Actually, Jim, all you need is a Sage rod for sale and a couple of alter egos. But seriously, it’s nice to here from you! –Steve

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"Jim …..Posting shamless marketing or large pictures is a no-no.

I, for one, don’t think shamless marketing is all that bad……best kind there is, as a matter of fact.     …The only thing I find intimidating about ROFF would be to producing a a small whitefish trip report in a riffle loaded with quality trout….

Pretty metaphor.  You got nuthin to worry about. Wolfgang oh yeah, welcome aboard!

Response:

Good post. Many will agree.  ;-) Seriously, thanks for the post, Jim. You’ve refuted the "popular opinion" (actually, held by just the one guy, afaik) that ROFF is an uninviting place. (HWMNBN won’t be able to trot *that* canard out anymore)… /daytripper (You’re off to a good start! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have only posted to this group once, so I guess it would be fair to say I am a newbie.  I guess I could also be considered a Lurker because I have continued to follow threads hear and there for the last couple months, as time permits, but I have not contributed. I can only say that nothing I have read would make me reluctant to post to ROFF.  As a matter of fact, I would expect any group interested in Fly fishing to have a disproportionate number of curmudgeons.  This is not meant as a slight, I enjoy and respect many crurmudgeons.  When someone takes heat on this group, they usually deserve it and the criticism teaches newbies, like me, simple lessons.  (Posting shamless marketing or large pictures is a no-no.)  The lessons are also entertaining. My position as a Lurker will probably erode over time.  At this point in time, my major limitation is time.  My kids keep me quite busy and it is fun to be with them.  I guess you could call them my primary hobby.  Reading a few post here and there is quick and I can do it at odd hours.  I sometimes cannot look at ROFF for weeks, so my contributions would be disjoint at best.  I really enjoy trip reports and many are truly works of art.  The only thing I find intimidating about ROFF would be to producing a a small whitefish trip report in a riffle loaded with quality trout. I have learned much from this group.  (For example: I need to give the Henry’s Fork another try and now I know why it appears that I catch more than twice the number of trout when I use a dropper.  I guess I can thank Bruce for both.) I will go fishing with my brothers in a few weeks and I hope the trip gives me enough material for a good report.  The thing I need most to contribute to ROFF is content.

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"Jim" wrote My position as a Lurker will probably erode over time.  At this point in time, my major limitation is time.  My kids keep me quite busy and it is fun to be with them.  I guess you could call them my primary hobby.  Reading a few post here and there is quick and I can do it at odd hours.  I sometimes cannot look at ROFF for weeks, so my contributions would be disjoint at best. ……

Even the most curmudgeonly and cantankerous here won’t ever fault you for having your priorities so properly ordered.  Hope you find the time to post more often–maybe even a TR of the up-coming trip with your brothers.  ;) JR

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(HWMNBN won’t be able to trot *that* canard out anymore)… Uh, you don’t get out much do you. <g — Charlie…

You can say that again!  I don’t suppose anyone gets out as much as they would like.  Thats why I lurk around here and live vicariously though others.  It also gives me a chance to learn, although I would rather be learning on a river.

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(HWMNBN won’t be able to trot *that* canard out anymore)…

Uh, you don’t get out much do you. <g — Charlie…

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I will go fishing with my brothers in a few weeks and I hope the trip gives me enough material for a good report.  The thing I need most to contribute to ROFF is content.

You can always theorize or trivialize (?).  Keeps me busy in the long lulls between fishing trips

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(HWMNBN won’t be able to trot *that* canard out anymore)… Uh, you don’t get out much do you. <g

What was I thinking?!?

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He should definately cul that canard. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (HWMNBN won’t be able to trot *that* canard out anymore)… Uh, you don’t get out much do you. <g What was I thinking?!?

Response:

I can only say that nothing I have read would make me reluctant to post to ROFF.  As a matter of fact, I would expect any group interested in Fly fishing to have a disproportionate number of curmudgeons.

Welcome, Jim!  Everyone here (with the exception of a troll) has been exceedingly kind and helpful to me, despite the fact I am very new to fly fishing.  I don’t always have info to add to discussions, but I read every one and have learned a wealth of information here, and have made some very nice friends. I will go fishing with my brothers in a few weeks and I hope the trip gives me enough material for a good report.

Please do post when you get back.  All the trout in Arizona streams seem to be boiled from the extended summer heat and I’m living vicariously through trip reports on ROFF until conditions improve.  <g Sandy — "…the sport and game of angling is the true means and cause that brings a man into a merry spirit, which…makes a flowering age and a long one." ~~ Dame Juliana Berners 1496

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Question:

To make things interesting, well actually I just need some patterns to tie, but what are your favorite patterns for the following: 1) BWO pattern 2) Green Drake pattern 3) Caddis pattern 4) Salmon fly pattern 5) Hopper pattern 6) Nymph 7) Streamer PMD pattern Thanks, Warren

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Well here’s my list. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —— Original Message —– Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 10:58 PM To make things interesting, well actually I just need some patterns to tie, but what are your favorite patterns for the following: 1) BWO pattern   – SR2 emerger 2) Green Drake pattern – Parachute Green Drake. 3) Caddis pattern – DRY – CDC & Elk hair.  Nymph – Green rock worm. Emerger – CDC & Biot. 4) Salmon fly pattern – Improved Sofa Pillow or Stimulator. 5) Hopper pattern – Joe’s Hopper 6) Nymph – All purpose – GRHE, or PT 7) Streamer – Black Woolybugger or Wool head muddler. PMD pattern – PMD comparadun. Thanks, Warren Bob Weinberger

Response:

Question:

I am traveling to Olympia to celebrate a friends birthday. Is there anything happening this time of year close to town. He mentioned that there is a small river called the Deschutes (not to be confused with the more famous Oregon river), that has some cutts and rainbows. I was just wondering if I should bother flying with all the gear to fish a morning there. Thanks.

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I am traveling to Olympia to celebrate a friends birthday. Is there anything happening this time of year close to town. He mentioned that there is a small river called the Deschutes (not to be confused with the more famous Oregon river), that has some cutts and rainbows. I was just wondering if I should bother flying with all the gear to fish a morning there. Thanks.

I don’t know a darn thing about Washington fishing but I do know it is better to bring some gear and not need it than to not bring the gear and then find out you could use it. — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas

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Walt, I do not know anything about the Deschutes near Olympia, but  do know they do have about 2 or 3 rivers that are good for steelhead fishing within an hour so South of Olympia. Bring the gear! Luckyboy

I am traveling to Olympia to celebrate a friends birthday. Is there anything happening this time of year close to town. He mentioned that there is a small river called the Deschutes (not to be confused with the more famous Oregon river), that has some cutts and rainbows. I was just wondering if I should bother flying with all the gear to fish a morning there. Thanks.

<snipped Wayne’s reply – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas

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<among other things I don’t know a darn thing about Washington fishing but I do know it is better to bring some gear and not need it than to not bring the gear and then find out you could use it.

That explains all that gear you brought to Kansas, eh?

Response:

Its been about 10years since I fished the Deschutes near the brewery in Olympia (my sister-in-law used to live in Lacey and I fished the river whenever we visited) so I don’t know the current situation. However, it used to be decent fishing thru the golf course for searun cuts, the occaisonal steelhead and I even once caught a silver. Its a fairly small stream and definately urban conditions, but it beats sitting around with inlaws. Bob Weinberger

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am traveling to Olympia to celebrate a friends birthday. Is there anything happening this time of year close to town. He mentioned that there is a small river called the Deschutes (not to be confused with the more famous Oregon river), that has some cutts and rainbows. I was just wondering if I should bother flying with all the gear to fish a morning there. Thanks.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just got off the phone with a fly shop in town that reported decent fishing for cutts in the Deschutes with some fish being taken on dries when the sun comes out. I am definately bringing the gear. Besides, fly fishing is the best cure I know after a long night with an old friend and some single malt. Thanks for convincing me. Walt (who is easily convinced)

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I am traveling to Olympia to celebrate a friends birthday. Is there anything happening this time of year close to town. He mentioned that there is a small river called the Deschutes (not to be confused with the more famous Oregon river), that has some cutts and rainbows. I was just wondering if I should bother flying with all the gear to fish a morning there. Thanks.

you might want to think about fishing the saltwater that surrounds the area. there should be some sea-run cutts around, and even some resident silver salmon (especially north around tacoma). chris

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He mentioned that there is a small river called the Deschutes (not to be confused with the more famous Oregon river), that has some cutts and rainbows.

Walt, Here’s a webpage that’ll help out for the regs for the Deschutes River in Washington state: http://www.wa.gov/wdfw/fish/regs/fishregs.htm Sorry I can’t be of more help. I’ve never been down that way to cast a line. If you do fish, I’d love to read a report! Fish on, my friend. Danny McMillin — Danny McMillin — Remove XX from email address to reduce spam.

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That explains all that gear you brought to Kansas, eh?

Naw all the gear I took to Kansas is my personal crusade to ensure full employment for the makers of fine fly rods and reels as well as the dealers who sell them. — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas

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Question:

A true classic is A Fly Fisher’s Life by Charles Ritz. Now out of print although you may pick up a copy in second hand bookshops. Ritz, of Ritz hotels fame, a Frenchman by birth spent many years fishing in USA as well as Europe. His US fishing friends included A J McClane and Ernest Hemingway. These two latter wrote the Introduction and Foreword respectively to the 1954 printing of the book as a translation from the French. Published in US by Henry Holt and Company, New York, 1960. Ritz commenced his fly fishing life in 1912. Ritz became famous for his designs of bamboo rods, believed to be the first time some technical application was applied to such design. I picked up my copy of the book at David Ishii bookseller, 212 First Ave Sth, Seattle, phone 206 622 4719 a few years ago when visiting USA. There may be another copy available. Probably quite expensive now [I considered it quite expensive then!!]. Regards — Peter Sealy Victoria,  Australia Any speling errors in this document are due to software bugs

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -A true classic is A Fly Fisher’s Life by Charles Ritz. Now out of print although you may pick up a copy in second hand bookshops. Ritz, of Ritz hotels fame, a Frenchman by birth spent many years fishing in USA as well as Europe. His US fishing friends included A J McClane and Ernest Hemingway. These two latter wrote the Introduction and Foreword respectively to the 1954 printing of the book as a translation from the French. Published in US by Henry Holt and Company, New York, 1960. Ritz commenced his fly fishing life in 1912. Ritz became famous for his designs of bamboo rods, believed to be the first time some technical application was applied to such design. I picked up my copy of the book at David Ishii bookseller, 212 First Ave Sth, Seattle, phone 206 622 4719 a few years ago when visiting USA. There may be another copy available. Probably quite expensive now [I considered it quite expensive then!!]. Regards — Peter Sealy Victoria,  Australia

Actually the book has gone through so many printings that it is fairly easy to find in one form or another.  Some forms very expensive.   I think it might still be in print.  Interesting to hear someone from Australia mention David Ishii.  What a neat little bookstore he has.  I haven’t been up there in a while but used to make it a point to stop in every time I was in Seattle. — Clyde Drury Black Bass Book Collector http://hometown.aol.com/BassBks/index3.html

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If you want to read a great book I recommend  " Earth Is Enough " by Harry Middleton or any other book by him .His books are not just about flyfishing but also life in general . I guarantee you will like them but try not to get too hooked , one of his books " The Starlight Creek Angling Society " is out of print and cost $500 . Try " On The Spline Of Time " also

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A true classic is A Fly Fisher’s Life by Charles Ritz. Now out of print although you may pick up a copy in second hand bookshops. Ritz, of Ritz hotels fame, a Frenchman by birth spent many years fishing in USA as well as Europe. His US fishing friends included A J McClane and Ernest Hemingway. These two latter wrote the Introduction and Foreword respectively to the 1954 printing of the book as a translation from the French. Published in US by Henry Holt and Company, New York, 1960. Ritz commenced his fly fishing life in 1912. Ritz became famous for his designs of bamboo rods, believed to be the first time some technical application was applied to such design. I picked up my copy of the book at David Ishii bookseller, 212 First Ave Sth, Seattle, phone 206 622 4719 a few years ago when visiting USA. There may be another copy available. Probably quite expensive now [I considered it quite expensive then!!]. Regards — Peter Sealy Victoria,  Australia Actually the book has gone through so many printings that it is fairly easy to find in one form or another.  Some forms very expensive.   I think it might still be in print.  Interesting to hear someone from Australia mention David Ishii.  What a neat little bookstore he has.  I haven’t been up there in a while but used to make it a point to stop in every time I was in Seattle. — Clyde Drury Black Bass Book Collector http://hometown.aol.com/BassBks/index3.html

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Question:

Bill, Make sure your rod and line weight are matched.  Make sure you have enough line pulled off the reel when you cast.  Fly casting is different than bait casting in that the line does not play off the reel, it has to be already off.  There are numerous line dressings available through your local FF shop or via catalog.   I highly recommend this book, Flyfishing; First Cast to First Fish by Joseph F. Petralia.  It is outstanding. Keep at it and keep asking questions, it’s the greatest pastime (obsession) in the world! — Rhio H. Barnhart                                                       Head, Music Department Library Systems Manager for Music University of California, Davis

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I’m glad I’m not the only one who uses their lunch hour to practice casting.  I bet you’ve heard a lot of the same comments I have.  "I think that hole is fished out."  "What cha fishin’ for?"  "Any bites?" My standard reply is "I’m ‘dry’ fly fishing.  Don’t see much point in it so far."  or "I’m trying to catch that little red pickup over there, but it doesn’t like any of my flys." Dave T. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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Question:

writes I agree with your views.  Trout, as a species is generally a small fish that averages (AVERAGES) about 12 – 14 inches.  Where are the pictures of those?

Regrettably or otherwise, most stillwater anglers would be disappointed if their rainbows measured only 12-14 inches.  That is the state of things where Troutmaster Monthly winners are concerned.  With Triploids of up to 15 lbs stocked, the little ‘uns dont come into the reckonig. Regards, — Bill

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writes I agree with your views.  Trout, as a species is generally a small fish that averages (AVERAGES) about 12 – 14 inches.  Where are the pictures of those? Regrettably or otherwise, most stillwater anglers would be disappointed if their rainbows measured only 12-14 inches.  That is the state of things where Troutmaster Monthly winners are concerned.  With Triploids of up to 15 lbs stocked, the little ‘uns dont come into the reckonig. Regards,

– Ive often wondered if there are enough people  who would like to fish with the lighter fly lines say 3-5 for smaller fish and perhaps pay less for a day ticket. My favourite fishing is for brownies in smallish rivers and streams in the west, Scotland and Eire . Living just outside Milton Keynes I only fish like this for a few weeks a year. A small fish fishery would get my support if within reasonable driving distance. Anybody else feel the same.? Peter Marler

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A small fish fishery would get my support if within reasonable driving distance. Anybody else feel the same.? Peter Marler

One of my local small stillwaters comprises several ponds, the main one has produced a Welsh record trout of over 24 lbs.  Ther is also a beginners fly pond, also an any method pond for children and non fly- fishermen.  One day, on arriving at the lodge, I was told that the "main" pond was full (max. number of anglers), so I asked if I could go on the beginners pond.  The fish here are averaging around 3/4 lbs.  I had a great afternoon’s sport, landing six, but missed about five others, and all the fish caught were decent plate sized trout. The above is a sort of example of your suggestion. Regards, — Bill

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Indeed.  My husband and I search out the small, native and generally less accessible waters in the NC mountains.  We particularly like to fish to the small native brook trout population with a fly my best friend has dubbed the "Energizer" (It keeps going & going much like the battery bunny of US commercials). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes I agree with your views.  Trout, as a species is generally a small fish that averages (AVERAGES) about 12 – 14 inches.  Where are the pictures of those? Regrettably or otherwise, most stillwater anglers would be disappointed if their rainbows measured only 12-14 inches.  That is the state of things where Troutmaster Monthly winners are concerned.  With Triploids of up to 15 lbs stocked, the little ‘uns dont come into the reckonig. Regards, — Ive often wondered if there are enough people  who would like to fish with the lighter fly lines say 3-5 for smaller fish and perhaps pay less for a day ticket. My favourite fishing is for brownies in smallish rivers and streams in the west, Scotland and Eire . Living just outside Milton Keynes I only fish like this for a few weeks a year. A small fish fishery would get my support if within reasonable driving distance. Anybody else feel the same.? Peter Marler

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______ I agree with your views.  Trout, as a species is generally a small fish that averages (AVERAGES) about 12 – 14 inches.  Where are the pictures of those? Mr. G. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Totally agree with the perspective photo in Trout Fisherman, I wonder if the angler felt better after his fish was portrayed as some protein-bound leviathan. One point which is hard to digest is the rose-tinted view of some anglers, sure we would all like to be on the magical rivers, catching wild browns, but it is not practical. Fly-fishing is for everyone – I have people fish at Cheshire Fishing, who could not manage to fish rivers, I have shift workers who have to grab every moment they can – people who doubt the beauty of such places, then surely have never been. I have fished on rivers, from the beautiful Eastern Cleddau to the Cheshire Dee, they are certainly no more scenic than Cheshire Fishing. Sure, we have double figure trout, but they are not tailess, egg-bound females, they are hard, silver, full tailed trout and the fish are noted for their beauty whatever the size. The main difference is, our trout are raised in earth ponds and their diet is supplemented with natural invertabrates like Shrimp. Don’t mock man made stillwaters – they have their niche – if you like rivers then fish them. Any doubts I had over the ethics of stillwaters was lost, when the teacher of a group of abused boys, told me that she had never in her career, seen a group hold attention for this length of time, their normal attention span was less than 15 minutes, these were spellbound for four hours, they co-operated with each other, they displayed characteristics never shown before. If anyone would like jpegs of fish, scenery etc, just let me know, and if the perspective is wrong on my pictures, then it is because I am a crap photographer, not because I wanted the fish to look bigger..! You are welcome to visit our website http://freespace.virgin.net/r.j/Cheshire.htm

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Totally agree with the perspective photo in Trout Fisherman, I wonder if the angler felt better after his fish was portrayed as some protein-bound leviathan. One point which is hard to digest is the rose-tinted view of some anglers, sure we would all like to be on the magical rivers, catching wild browns, but it is not practical. Fly-fishing is for everyone – I have people fish at Cheshire Fishing, who could not manage to fish rivers, I have shift workers who have to grab every moment they can – people who doubt the beauty of such places, then surely have never been. I have fished on rivers, from the beautiful Eastern Cleddau to the Cheshire Dee, they are certainly no more scenic than Cheshire Fishing. Sure, we have double figure trout, but they are not tailess, egg-bound females, they are hard, silver, full tailed trout and the fish are noted for their beauty whatever the size. The main difference is, our trout are raised in earth ponds and their diet is supplemented with natural invertabrates like Shrimp. Don’t mock man made stillwaters – they have their niche – if you like rivers then fish them. Any doubts I had over the ethics of stillwaters was lost, when the teacher of a group of abused boys, told me that she had never in her career, seen a group hold attention for this length of time, their normal attention span was less than 15 minutes, these were spellbound for four hours, they co-operated with each other, they displayed characteristics never shown before. If anyone would like jpegs of fish, scenery etc, just let me know, and if the perspective is wrong on my pictures, then it is because I am a crap photographer, not because I wanted the fish to look bigger..! You are welcome to visit our website http://freespace.virgin.net/r.j/Cheshire.htm

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone out there know where the native trout are?  I mean, where in the continental US can a person fish for trout that are native to the watershed they’re in presently, and have been there since before Man?  I know up in the Sierra’s you can still catch Volcano creek and Kern river Goldens in what I think are their ancestral (sp?) waters, but where else?  Are there still some Apache trout swimming where they always have, without the assistance of Man?  Greenbacks?  Lahontans?  Are the Cutts in Yellowstone completely pure?  Or have they been augmented by Man at any time?  I’d really love to know.  Is there a good book on this topic? JE

Try the south fork of the Flathead river. Only has native west slope cutthroats and dolly varden. both are thriving, and are natives.   little hard to reach though…. in the bob Marshall Wilderness…. which is why they are still natives.

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I’m on the other side of the mountains, but there are a few little small streams coming down out of the mountains near my house have have native brookies.  And 8 incher is a lunker, but they’re gorgeous.

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Apache trout are still found in decent numbers in one watershed on the eastern Sierra, but no fishing is allowed and it is patrolled by a back country ranger whose only territory is that particular watershed.

OOOOOOPPPPS!! This was supposed to say Piute Cutthroat, not Apache trout.                                       Sorry ’bout that,                                               Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone out there know where the native trout are?  I mean, where in the continental US can a person fish for trout that are native to the watershed they’re in presently, and have been there since before Man? Jon, I don’t know a lot about many places, but wild native Brook Trout are still to be found in a few of the spring creek headwaters in the Appalachians (North Georgia, N.C.) but they are having a real tough time surviving the ever encroaching effects of man. As I’m sure you’re aware, the Brookie needs colder, clearer water than most freshwater species, and this presents a problem as the streams warm due to the activities on or near the various watershed.  Also, they cannot fend for themselves when pitted against Browns and Rainbows for a limited food supply. Sadly, another problem that the little brookies have is that they have a reputation of being too easy, and too small (we’re not talking Labrador here) so they don’t get a lot of attention.

Here in the eastern  part of Tn we still have some native brookies. It looks like they are coming back. I recently caught and released a  10 inch brook trout and caught many more of lesser caliber. Hans

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Fereira) writes: Do you know if the "Eagle Lake" rainbow is considered "native"?

Yes, it is native to Eagle Lake in Northern CA but has also been transplanted to lots of otherwise dead waters or to places where water is too alkaline for other types of trout including more common strains of rainbows .  This particular strain can tolerate higher alkalinity than normal trout.  They also get REAL BIG!                                   Good Fishing,                                        Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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Yep! Terry Weir is right. Every fish I catch is a native, wild fish! Love that salt water biodiversity too! Wayne Marshall

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I think the brookies in Shenandoah NP are native. — Charlie… You weren’t supposed to tell

OOPs<g. They are so pretty though and hard enough to catch that I hope I didn’t do any harm. I can remember hiking back in a couple of miles, suprising a bear or two, and crawling up behind a boulder to make a cast into a pool that couldn’t have been much bigger than the inside of my rental car. What a lot of fun! — Charlie…

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Anyone out there know where the native trout are?  I mean, where in the continental US can a person fish for trout that are native to the watershed they’re in presently, and have been there since before Man?  I know up in the Sierra’s you can still catch Volcano creek and Kern river Goldens in what I think are their ancestral (sp?) waters, but where else?  Are there still some Apache trout swimming where they always have, without the assistance of Man?  Greenbacks?  Lahontans?  Are the Cutts in Yellowstone completely pure?  Or have they been augmented by Man at any time?  I’d really love to know.  Is there a good book on this topic? JE

I think the brookies in Shenandoah NP are native. — Charlie…

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I think the brookies in Shenandoah NP are native. — Charlie…

You weren’t supposed to tell

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone out there know where the native trout are?  I mean, where in the continental US can a person fish for trout that are native to the watershed they’re in presently, and have been there since before Man? JE <snip you would like the book "Native Trout of North America" by Robert H. Smith published by Amato Publications.  this book is a search for native, pure strain fish.  lots of searching of the high desert, tiny streams, etc.  pretty good reading too.  he goes after the fish with a fly rod. I second the recommendation for Robert H. Smiths book.  It’s been my resourse for any question that have come up in the group over the past few years.   John Fereira

  Yes; also for a strictly scientific approach to this interesting subject, try Robert J. Behnke’s monograph of western trouts: _Native Trout of Western North America_ pub. by: American Fisheries Society 5410 Grosvenor Lane, Suite 110 Bethesda, MD  20814   Cheers, and tight Lines! – Mark

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: Anyone out there know where the native trout are?  I mean, where in the : continental US can a person fish for trout that are native to the [snip] : Man at any time?  I’d really love to know.  Is there a good book on this : topic? Read Lewis and Clark’s Journal.  The same fish are still here in this part of the world. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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Otherwise thank all your angler fellows introducing brook trout, rainbows, and – even worse- brown trout (of course with WD) into rivers where they outcompete the natives.

[deleted] Then the hypocritical irony of calling these the ‘wild fish’ and not wanting to eat ‘em because they are beautiful wild fish. TimW

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ry the Atlantic ocean. Native Stripers and Blues up to 30 lbs or more on a fly. That’s fishin!                                 Terry Weir         Right on Terry.  I grew up on Long Island sound and looked forward to every autum for a shot at those really BIG Blues.           I was speaking specifically of trout in the post though.  By the way, how is the Bluefish run shaping up this year?  It’s been a long time…… JE

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone out there know where the native trout are?  I mean, where in the continental US can a person fish for trout that are native to the watershed they’re in presently, and have been there since before Man?  I know up in the Sierra’s you can still catch Volcano creek and Kern river Goldens in what I think are their ancestral (sp?) waters, but where else?  Are there still some Apache trout swimming where they always have, without the assistance of Man?  Greenbacks?  Lahontans?  Are the Cutts in Yellowstone completely pure?  Or have they been augmented by Man at any time?  I’d really love to know.  Is there a good book on this topic? California is loaded with native rainbows.  They are indiginous to the west slope of the sierra and are wide spread with many identifiable strains.

Do you know if the "Eagle Lake" rainbow is considered "native"? The giant Lahontan Cutthroat is gone for good, but some "almost" pure strain can still be found in the Eastern Sierra and in Pyramid Lake in Nevada.  The population in Pyramid Lake is artificially spawned each year by the Indians who control the Lake.  The original strain was wiped out with Bureau of Land Management project #1 which was the Darby Dam on the Truckee River.  

The Piute cutthroat can still be found in it’s native waters in an area a bit further south. Ralph Cutter has some great info on these trout in his book "Sierra Trout Guide".

Agreed. Robert Behnke has a good book out on Native Trout of North America (think that’s the title) but it is hard to find and expensive.

Actually Behnke’s book is called "Native Trout of Western North America".   Robert Smiths book is called "Native Trout of North America".                                  Hope this helps,                                          Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

John Fereira Stop Unsolicited Commercial Email – Join CAUCE (http://www.cauce.org) Support HR 1748, the anti-spam bill.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone out there know where the native trout are?  I mean, where in the continental US can a person fish for trout that are native to the watershed they’re in presently, and have been there since before Man?  I know up in the Sierra’s you can still catch Volcano creek and Kern river Goldens in what I think are their ancestral (sp?) waters, but where else?  Are there still some Apache trout swimming where they always have, without the assistance of Man?  Greenbacks?  Lahontans?  Are the Cutts in Yellowstone completely pure?  Or have they been augmented by Man at any time?  I’d really love to know.  Is there a good book on this topic? JE you would like the book "Native Trout of North America" by Robert H. Smith published by Amato Publications.  this book is a search for native, pure strain fish.  lots of searching of the high desert, tiny streams, etc.  pretty good reading too.  he goes after the fish with a fly rod.

I second the recommendation for Robert H. Smiths book.  It’s been my resourse for any question that have come up in the group over the past few years.   John Fereira Stop Unsolicited Commercial Email – Join CAUCE (http://www.cauce.org) Support HR 1748, the anti-spam bill.

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Try the Atlantic ocean. Native Stripers and Blues up to 30 lbs or more on a fly. That’s fishin!                                 Terry Weir

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Anyone out there know where the native trout are?  I mean, where in the continental US can a person fish for trout that are native to the watershed they’re in presently, and have been there since before Man?  I know up in the Sierra’s you can still catch Volcano creek and Kern river Goldens in what I think are their ancestral (sp?) waters, but where else?  Are there still some Apache trout swimming where they always have, without the assistance of Man?  Greenbacks?  Lahontans?  Are the Cutts in Yellowstone completely pure?  Or have they been augmented by Man at any time?  I’d really love to know.  Is there a good book on this topic?

California is loaded with native rainbows.  They are indiginous to the west slope of the sierra and are wide spread with many identifiable strains.  The Shasta rainbow is one strain that is found throughout northern CA, and the McCloud rainbow is still found in its native waters of the McCloud river in CA.  Strange thing, McCloud has the Shasta Rainbow and the McCloud (subspecies) in the same water along with the non-native brown trout (two strains of that one also).  Pure strain McCloud rainbows are easily discerned by their tangerine orange stripe and cheeks along with orange cuts under the chin.  Not often caught, but spectacular fish. There is not a question what it is when you catch one. Specific strains of Steelhead have been all but wiped out in many areas, But some native runs survive.  Skamania Strain (Washington state strain from Skamania River) hatchery replacements were introduced in many of the rivers to mitigate the destruction (and continued destruction) of their habitat.  Poor attempt at a solution. Apache trout are still found in decent numbers in one watershed on the eastern Sierra, but no fishing is allowed and it is patrolled by a back country ranger whose only territory is that particular watershed. Numerous fly fishing clubs have helped with stream reconstruction projects ther to help repair damage from grazing cattle. The giant Lahontan Cutthroat is gone for good, but some "almost" pure strain can still be found in the Eastern Sierra and in Pyramid Lake in Nevada.  The population in Pyramid Lake is artificially spawned each year by the Indians who control the Lake.  The original strain was wiped out with Bureau of Land Management project #1 which was the Darby Dam on the Truckee River.   Although they thought they provided for it, the dam wiped out all of the spawning area and within a few years, the 40 lb. + Lahontan Cutthroat were gone.  Used to be a cannery at the mouth of the Lake that netted fish, canned them, and shipped them throughout the world in the 1800’s.  Was a booming industry until the dam.  They did find some pockets of the Lahontan Cutthroat in some lakes on the east slope of the Sierra and that is what is currently in Pyramid Lake.  There is some controversy as to whether they are pure strain or not, but they don’t grow nearly as large as the native strain that was in Pyramid Lake.  Still catch 8 to 15 lb. Cutthroat there, but not much chance of breaking that 40 lb. record. Goldens can still be found in the Kern drainage (native waters), but few are pure strain as there were hatchery plants again in the 1800’s when rainbow hatcheries were thought to be the best thing since sliced bread. There are some pure strain fish still in there that were geologically isolated from the drainage they dumped the rainbow plants in.  Ralph Cutter has some great info on these trout in his book "Sierra Trout Guide". We also have lots of native squaw fish but they are not much of a gamefish and they predate on salmonids. Robert Behnke has a good book out on Native Trout of North America (think that’s the title) but it is hard to find and expensive.                                   Hope this helps,                                           Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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Anyone out there know where the native trout are?  I mean, where in the continental US can a person fish for trout that are native to the watershed they’re in presently, and have been there since before Man?   snip< JE

 Try Maine, Jon.  There are still places producing  fairly good size native brook trout.   And, the landlock salmon fishing ain’t too shabby either.  However, I believe the landlocks were stocked as fingerlings years ago.  Of course you may have trouble finding *exactly* where to go. ;0) Dave L.

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Anyone out there know where the native trout are?  I mean, where in the continental US can a person fish for trout that are native to the watershed they’re in presently, and have been there since before Man?  I know up in the Sierra’s you can still catch Volcano creek and Kern river Goldens in what I think are their ancestral (sp?) waters, but where else?  Are there still some Apache trout swimming where they always have, without the assistance of Man?  Greenbacks?  Lahontans?  Are the Cutts in Yellowstone completely pure?  Or have they been augmented by Man at any time?  I’d really love to know.  Is there a good book on this topic? JE

Take a look at Ralph Cutters book about the Sierra Nevada. Otherwise thank all your angler fellows introducing brook trout, rainbows, and – even worse- brown trout (of course with WD) into rivers where they outcompete the natives. Look at recent discussions about the reintroduction of native grayling into Yellowstone National Park and all the counterarguments of these f****** stupid fisherman who only want to catch lots of big fish without caring about ecological interconnections. The general agreement of environmental destruction (what else is the deminishing of species variety in a given biotop?) is responsible that you can

Question:

For those of us that spend too much time in the office and not nearly relief.  www.1photo.com/fish2much.htm

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For those of us that spend too much time in the office and not nearly relief.  www.1photo.com/fish2much.htm

Or one could just take their favorite photo to almost any Kinko’s and have a mouse pad made from it for about half the cost. John Fereira

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Question:

Thomas and Thomas makes an 11′ 6/7 wt with an in between length handle.

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I use the 13.5′ 7/8.  A small fish’s effort applied at the tip of this long lever arm applies more torque to my arms than the same fish on a smaller rod.  Large trout over 20" feel good and sprightly on it and can put a good bend in it. SNIP About that $560 – I think the blank is only about $250 for a build it yourself cost around $325.

Thanks for the info Mark.  Sounds like you enjoy the rod, and would… ahem… one day will.  Where I would use it there are simultaneous runs of Half Pounders and Adults to 9 lbs, the half pounders outnumbering the big boys about 12 to 1 (in my fishing log anyway).  I’ve tried building rods.  They come out fine, but the cost is always way more than what you stated (Okay!  I confess, I bought the components in my fly shop, not from a catalogue!), and took so much time for me to get it the way I wanted that it just wasn’t worth it to me.  Plus on a super light spey rod I’d be concerned about Warranty.  I agree that Car Door warranties are going too far, but if in the middle of a big single spey (within the limits of performance), if the Mid Section implodes for no reason other than the cast, I want a replacement! Phil

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have fished beside a few folks with the long, two handed rods and the only problem that I see is that they really overpower an 8-10 lb steelhead…the rods seem much better suited to a 20 lb salmon. Depends on the spey rod…  For some applications, like I use the 13.5′ 7/8.  A small fish’s effort applied at the tip of this long lever arm applies more torque to my arms than the same fish on a smaller rod.  Large trout over 20" feel good and sprightly on it and can put a good bend in it. I haven’t caught 8-10 pounders on it but a 12 and a 20 lber both took all it had to move them.  The long rod goves a big advantage in the end game as you can turn the fish back and forth and the rod will absorb any abrupt actions, but I would say that this rod overpowers them any more than another 8 weight. To me any eight weight overpowers trout under 20". This 7/8 wt.is just light enough for me to cast one handed with great

I my book anything over 4 wt. is too much for trout under 20"! Just my 0.02 cents, -Burton — L. Burton Hawley           2330 NW Hummingbird Dr. Corvallis, OR

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I have fished beside a few folks with the long, two handed rods and the only problem that I see is that they really overpower an 8-10 lb steelhead…the rods seem much better suited to a 20 lb salmon.   Depends on the spey rod…  For some applications, like half-pounders though that 7/8 would be a ton of fun!  Would love one for summer and fall steelhead, and fall browns, but at $560 bucks it ain’t gonna’ happen…

I use the 13.5′ 7/8.  A small fish’s effort applied at the tip of this long lever arm applies more torque to my arms than the same fish on a smaller rod.  Large trout over 20" feel good and sprightly on it and can put a good bend in it. I haven’t caught 8-10 pounders on it but a 12 and a 20 lber both took all it had to move them.  The long rod goves a big advantage in the end game as you can turn the fish back and forth and the rod will absorb any abrupt actions, but I would say that this rod overpowers them any more than another 8 weight. To me any eight weight overpowers trout under 20". This 7/8 wt.is just light enough for me to cast one handed with great effort.   I would be curious to find a six weight, not necessarily with the big two handed handle but longer than 10′ and tapered for spey casting. Something you could use two or one handed but mostly for spey casting. The rhythm and grace and line control and the easier two hand motion would be desireable in a lighter rod too. Once you know spey casts you’ll want better spey abilities in a trout rod, but I don’t think this is compatible with delicate casting action. That would really be a hoot for the juvenile delinquent half pounders. I’ll try some experiments with just the upper three sections and see how it works. If any rod builders want to build one I’d test it very well for you. About that $560 – I think the blank is only about $250 for a build it yourself cost around $325.   Mark VInsel — http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

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I have fished beside a few folks with the long, two handed rods and the only problem that I see is that they really overpower an 8-10 lb steelhead…the rods seem much better suited to a 20 lb salmon.  Yet I know it is best to play and release quickly….so it seem the question is between having a little fun by having to really play the fish, or getting them in in a hurry and thereby helping the fish.  I guess I don’t really see an answer to this "problem."  Any help? Fred Rickson

A good spey rod is *really* soft, and they used to say you should have time to light up and smoke a pipe while you were making the cast. In these terms, most modern sticks that call themselves spey rods are too stiff and these do cut down playing times on fish weighing less than ten pounds. I guess it is like the difference between landing a salmon on a Sage RPL and on a 4 weight bamboo – you’ll get the fish in eventually with the bamboo, but you’ll bank it in five minutes with the Sage. I have about thirty rods, because I have no sense of self-control, and I use them all! I tend to use spey rods on rivers where I can’t make a long backcast because of banks or trees or whatever, or on big rivers where I would have to double-haul into the future. I am not the world’s best distance caster with a shooting head, although I am working on it. I also find that the longer rod gives greater line control, letting me mend a double taper almost down to the fly at thirty yards. I guess it boils down to what your aims are in fishing. I have caught (and released) two big steelhead, one on the Bulckley (hope I spelled that OK) and the other on the Kispiox. The Kispiox fish I hooked on a nine foot Sage, and took me twenty five minutes. The Bulckely fish I hooked, after a double spey in a tight corner, on a fifteen foot rod, and I banked it in fifteen minutes. Both the fish were pretty fit afterwards, although I wasn’t too keen to catch another one too soon after the Kispiox fish! I got talking to one of the guides, and we used a spring balance to check the maximum pull the rods could exert on a fish. The fifteen foot rod actually pulled half a pound less than the Sage with the rods vertical, near as we could judge. So why did the long rod bank a fish faster? Probably because you have more line out of the water and can pull the fish’s head *up* more of the time – I don’t know. Of course, this doesn’t apply to salt water, where using a long rod on a big fish would be pretty stupid! So, if it is any help, I’d use a long rod where you can’t use a short one, or where it would help to be able to mend the line on a larger river, or when you just feel it would be a pleasant thing to do. The other thing you have to watch in some places is the politics! There is something about spey rods which gives some fishermen a problem, why I have no idea. I once got pursued by a guy for three days who had his head up his ass about catching fish with a rod longer than nine feet. In the end I pulled out my midge rod and fished that for the remainder of the week – all the while wingeing about grown men like him using rods twice as long as mine to catch salmon (man, you should have seen me generating line speed with that one.) Rods are just rods, they aren’t worth losing sleep over! Andrew (-:

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Spey rods are best. Single handed rods are jokes! (as is this don’t bother to reply – fake email address) DH

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Spey rods are best. Single handed rods are jokes! (as is this don’t bother to reply – fake email address) DH

OK, we know that. If you have more experience than that tell us all about it. (if you like even by email). Just got my first Spey rod and am eager to hear more. Thomas — Thomas Urbig

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Spey rods are best. Single handed rods are jokes!

I guess you mean two-handed rods when saying Spey rod. (Spey rod are two handed rods specially designed for Spey casts) Two-handed rods are certainly superior to single handed rods in many situations. But I wouldn’t count 1-handed out… It’s a matter of how large the river is, how heavy flies you are casting, if regular overhead casts are possible or not etc… I fish with both, depending on the situation and I’m happy with that.  - Tord

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Spey rods are best. Single handed rods are jokes!

I sometimes fish 6 ft wide, fast running freestone streams, targeting wild trout of about 8 inches.  I fish with a 7.6 2#.  I will admit that I have never tried it, but I think that a spey rod may just not be the optimal rod for this situation. Bruce….

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Spey rods are best. Single handed rods are jokes! I sometimes fish 6 ft wide, fast running freestone streams, targeting wild trout of about 8 inches.  I fish with a 7.6 2#.  I will admit that I have never tried it, but I think that a spey rod may just not be the optimal rod for this situation. Bruce….

you’re little trout would be transformed into might flying fish when you set up… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Spey rods are best. Single handed rods are jokes! (as is this don’t bother to reply – fake email address) DH

I have to say that over the years I have discovered that my fifteen foot double-hander, while great fun for salmon, is not quite the optimal weapon for dry fly fishing on our local beck. Andrew

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I have fished beside a few folks with the long, two handed rods and the only problem that I see is that they really overpower an 8-10 lb steelhead…the rods seem much better suited to a 20 lb salmon.  Yet I know it is best to play and release quickly….so it seem the question is between having a little fun by having to really play the fish, or getting them in in a hurry and thereby helping the fish.  I guess I don’t really see an answer to this "problem."  Any help? Fred Rickson

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I have fished beside a few folks with the long, two handed rods and the only problem that I see is that they really overpower an 8-10 lb steelhead…the rods seem much better suited to a 20 lb salmon.  

Depends on the spey rod.  I have the Sage 14 foot four piece for 9/10. It only weighs seven ounces, and one look at the grip tells you it ain’t the telephone pole you might expect it to be.  Very light, very sensitive.  I can cast it one handed up to 45 feet (I’m 6′ 4", 250), and can feel when I pick up a small leaf on my fly on the swing.  Picked up a seven pound (29" by 14.5") steelhead last wednesday and it was great fun.   Sage now makes a 15 foot four piece 8/9 (that sounds like it would be a hoot!) to go along with their 13.5 foot 7/8 model (also softer than you’d think).  Personally, I wouldn’t trade my 9140-4 for the 7/8 model, because my ability to throw a line with interchangeable heads (up to a type six 10 wt!  No not Rio),  is why I catch winter steelhead while others practice casting.  For some applications, like half-pounders though that 7/8 would be a ton of fun!  Would love one for summer and fall steelhead, and fall browns, but at $560 bucks it ain’t gonna’ happen while I still own my 8 year old 10 foot seven one hander. Haven’t seen or tried the new 15 foot 8/9 yet.  The moral of the story is No two companies spey rods are alike, and you have to find one that is designed for the size and type of fish you want to catch.  I can’t recommend the Sage 4 piece rods highly enough.  Wouldn’t touch the three piecers if you paid me. Phil

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