Question:

A little update on some info.  I spoke to Jeffrey Cardenas (The Saltwater Angler, www.saltwaterangler.com) and they aren’t doing anything in Abacos currently, but this was suggested (with no comment, good or bad): www.abacoflyfish.com TC, R

LOL! My wife Googled that link up last week. One of the more glossy guide sites I’ve seen, but the prices are in line with the area from other stuff we’ve read… We’re planning on 10 days down there; I figure I’ll use a guide for a day or two and then see how I do on my own. From my admittedly limited experience, if you can see bonefish* the guide is just a boat driver. And the boat rental prices down there are very reasonable… * non-trivial, kinda like those dithered-to-death "stereo images", you either get it, or you utterly don’t. I was lucky and had no problem seeing the bones in Anegada, hopefully the water is as clear and the sand flats as clean in the Abacos… /daytripper (Now if I could just spring free to fish *this* month!)

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Fabulous place Fell and broke my thumb the day before I had 2 days booked with a guide called sawyer ( I Think) – fortunately he had 2 novices waiting to go and who took my cancellation – both had bones 5lb + Enjoy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The SO has proposed Green Turtle Cay in the Abacos for our annual island trip next April. She’s been seeing lots of positive bonefishing references so she figures it’s a lock for me to go along with her schemes We’d stay at the Green Turtle Club resort/marina, fwiw. http://www.greenturtleclub.com/ And I’m looking for anyone with any direct experience with the eastern Abaco islands, the Green Turtle Club, and more importantly, the fishing! Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones

– Charles Reaves

Response:

From my admittedly limited experience, if you can see bonefish* the guide is just a boat driver. And the boat rental prices down there are very reasonable…

They are, but you need to know the area, tides, etc., to avoid a lot of fruitless searching, and avoid tide and wind situations.  Make sure to get charts and pay particular attention to wind and tide directions and tide times. * non-trivial, kinda like those dithered-to-death "stereo images", you either get it, or you utterly don’t. I was lucky and had no problem seeing the bones in Anegada, hopefully the water is as clear and the sand flats as clean in the Abacos…

It is at least as clear as the VI.  I once dropped a lighter off a dock in the Abacos, and it could be seen on the bottom (about 20 plus feet of water – I didn’t realize quite how deep until I got down there <G). I’ve got UW pics of palometa and bones are as clear as anything taken in a perfectly-maintained swimming pool. /daytripper (Now if I could just spring free to fish *this* month!)

Er, you might wanna wait to NEXT month or the spring…<G TC, R

Response:

From my admittedly limited experience, if you can see bonefish* the guide is just a boat driver. And the boat rental prices down there are very reasonable… They are, but you need to know the area, tides, etc., to avoid a lot of fruitless searching, and avoid tide and wind situations.  Make sure to get charts and pay particular attention to wind and tide directions and tide times.

That’s what the first couple of days out with the guide are for… I’ll order up charts, especially given the boat rental, I’ll have a gps and a tide table, and hopefully things will be clear enough after a couple of days out. Granted my shallow experience (<= feeble pun) but fishing for bones isn’t very high on the rocket science scale – there are a couple of key details about bones that quickly narrow down the places one should bother working, and after a few more web hits I’m starting to get the feel for how small and *close* together the Abacos are, so I’m reasonably confident that if there are fish to be had I’ll stumble onto ‘em before too long * non-trivial, kinda like those dithered-to-death "stereo images", you either get it, or you utterly don’t. I was lucky and had no problem seeing the bones in Anegada, hopefully the water is as clear and the sand flats as clean in the Abacos… It is at least as clear as the VI.  I once dropped a lighter off a dock in the Abacos, and it could be seen on the bottom (about 20 plus feet of water – I didn’t realize quite how deep until I got down there <G). I’ve got UW pics of palometa and bones are as clear as anything taken in a perfectly-maintained swimming pool.

Excellent! I might have to spring for an underwater digicam! More toys! /daytripper (Now if I could just spring free to fish *this* month!) Er, you might wanna wait to NEXT month or the spring…<G

end around here. /daytripper (A shrink could buy his next house on my tab…)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – From my admittedly limited experience, if you can see bonefish* the guide is just a boat driver. And the boat rental prices down there are very reasonable… They are, but you need to know the area, tides, etc., to avoid a lot of fruitless searching, and avoid tide and wind situations.  Make sure to get charts and pay particular attention to wind and tide directions and tide times. That’s what the first couple of days out with the guide are for… I’ll order up charts, especially given the boat rental, I’ll have a gps and a tide table, and hopefully things will be clear enough after a couple of days out.

Weeel, it’s not _quite_ that simple.  You’ve got the potential for 4 foot changes, and it isn’t just knowing where, it’s knowing when and where, and where the fish are moving.  The "no-boat" flats, of course, are easy (and there are a coupla-several miles of these at GTC), but with a bare boat, it can get tricky insofar as being where you want/need to be when.   You might consider renting a boat for one day, you and the wife going for a ride, and getting familiar with things.  Then get a guide for a couple of days, and rent again for a couple of days (or more – check on a weekly rate – if so, you can avoid ferry schedules altogether, weather depending).  Plus, while only natives can officially guide you, anyone can go fishing with you, and if you have boat access the entire trip, meeting a few folks from cruising boats might be productive.  And you might want to take a lighter setup for palometa, etc. (little permits, sorta like saltwater panfish) during bonefish lulls, and take some steel wire, etc. for barracuda (highly recommended for sport and dinner). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Granted my shallow experience (<= feeble pun) but fishing for bones isn’t very high on the rocket science scale – there are a couple of key details about bones that quickly narrow down the places one should bother working, and after a few more web hits I’m starting to get the feel for how small and *close* together the Abacos are, so I’m reasonably confident that if there are fish to be had I’ll stumble onto ‘em before too long * non-trivial, kinda like those dithered-to-death "stereo images", you either get it, or you utterly don’t. I was lucky and had no problem seeing the bones in Anegada, hopefully the water is as clear and the sand flats as clean in the Abacos… It is at least as clear as the VI.  I once dropped a lighter off a dock in the Abacos, and it could be seen on the bottom (about 20 plus feet of water – I didn’t realize quite how deep until I got down there <G). I’ve got UW pics of palometa and bones are as clear as anything taken in a perfectly-maintained swimming pool. Excellent! I might have to spring for an underwater digicam! More toys!

Fuji makes a disposable UW that actually works pretty good if you just want "quick and easy" – get them in the States.  Also, get a couple of decent but inexpensive masks and snorkels (also in the States) unless you are absolutely a "dry head."  And if you dive, DON’T take anything but Hawaiian slings (with extra tubing) – anything else is a no-no. TC, R

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s what the first couple of days out with the guide are for… I’ll order up charts, especially given the boat rental, I’ll have a gps and a tide table, and hopefully things will be clear enough after a couple of days out. Weeel, it’s not _quite_ that simple.  You’ve got the potential for 4 foot changes, and it isn’t just knowing where, it’s knowing when and where, and where the fish are moving.  The "no-boat" flats, of course, are easy (and there are a coupla-several miles of these at GTC), but with a bare boat, it can get tricky insofar as being where you want/need to be when.  

We’ll be getting the boat for the middle 7 days out of the 10 we’ll be there, looks like a 20-something foot Wellcraft CC with a 150 and t-top. Nice hefty boat – if it ends up high and dry at low tide it won’t be moved, that’s for sure. But we want to be able to roam freely for the duration, we usually take our own boat wherever we go on summer vacations, and it is usually at the center of the best times we have. I’ve been looking at satellite images of the area to the west of the reef through the island chain over to the big island and then on to the Marls, and it looks like flat water everywhere west of the reef would be the rule unless the weather is coming due north/south. You might consider renting a boat for one day, you and the wife going for a ride, and getting familiar with things.  Then get a guide for a couple of days, and rent again for a couple of days (or more – check on a weekly rate – if so, you can avoid ferry schedules altogether, weather depending).  Plus, while only natives can officially guide you, anyone can go fishing with you, and if you have boat access the entire trip, meeting a few folks from cruising boats might be productive.  And you might want to take a lighter setup for palometa, etc. (little permits, sorta like saltwater panfish) during bonefish lulls, and take some steel wire, etc. for barracuda (highly recommended for sport and dinner).

Are there any actual permits/licences one must obtain for fishing – either on foot or in a boat? That’s usually something I forget until the last day – so I’m getting a bit of a jump on things this time… /daytripper (might actually go fishing this weekend! Whoa!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s what the first couple of days out with the guide are for… I’ll order up charts, especially given the boat rental, I’ll have a gps and a tide table, and hopefully things will be clear enough after a couple of days out. Weeel, it’s not _quite_ that simple.  You’ve got the potential for 4 foot changes, and it isn’t just knowing where, it’s knowing when and where, and where the fish are moving.  The "no-boat" flats, of course, are easy (and there are a coupla-several miles of these at GTC), but with a bare boat, it can get tricky insofar as being where you want/need to be when.   We’ll be getting the boat for the middle 7 days out of the 10 we’ll be there, looks like a 20-something foot Wellcraft CC with a 150 and t-top. Nice hefty boat – if it ends up high and dry at low tide it won’t be moved, that’s for sure. But we want to be able to roam freely for the duration, we usually take our own boat wherever we go on summer vacations, and it is usually at the center of the best times we have.

Heck, with that, you don’t need to worry about no steekin’ ferries…plus, that’ll allow quite a variety of fishing – you might wish to take non-FFing tackle, as well. Are there any actual permits/licences one must obtain for fishing – either on foot or in a boat? That’s usually something I forget until the last day – so I’m getting a bit of a jump on things this time…

You get them at Customs, so you don’t have much of choice, unless you wanna fly over early to get one…<G.  Ask for a "sportfishing permit" – it’s around 20-25USD.  I don’t know the status of the boat you’re renting, and with a guide, or on a Bahamian charter, you don’t need one, but if I were in your shoes, I’d just get the thing and be done with it. Bahamian Customs and other LE bodies can be a weird thing for the first-time tourist, so don’t act amused or surprised at any, er, "simple ways."  Make sure you have a couple of hundred USD in tens and twenties for the various fees, "taxes," etc. (in and out for you both, and I don’t mean bribes – it just speeds things up to have smaller bills at the ready).  Up until recently, "Customs" at the MH airport was a card table with a very friendly guy who always told you that you had nothing to declare, in and out, and to enjoy your stay…<G.  The outers particularly, and the Bahamas in general, are pretty laid back when it comes to sensible tourists who obviously plan on spending money.  My father is there quite often, and the only "trouble" in all the years of our family going was that he was pickpocketed once in Nassau, realized it as it happened, tried to grab the guy, who ran.  He then had to catch up to some folks who also gave chase and caught the guy so they didn’t beat him senseless before the cops came.  They made the guy give back the wallet and apologize in between blows. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -/daytripper (might actually go fishing this weekend! Whoa!

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I’ve done both, and am fairly familiar with out islands of the Bahamas. As to the Green Turtle Club itself, the food is good, the dockage reasonable, an we’ve had a good time when we’ve been.

We must have been there at different times. My trip 5 years ago provided horrible overcooked food at typical high prices for the area. Other dining options are limited except for a 3 mile golf cart ride to New Plymouth. On a good day the smoke from the dump goes out to sea while Brendle, the dive boat captain, will hit on anything with a skirt. My favorite place in the area is Hopetown and Elbow Cay with a little more to do and the variety to keep the trip interesting. Some cottage rentals offer an ocean view and a harbor view. I’ve never bonefished the area, but from what I’ve heard a good guide will be a big plus. A good plan is to rent a Boston Whaler and with Elbow Cay smack in the middle you can easily cover a good portion of the Abaco Sea. Marsh Harbor is just west with great diving down at Sandy Cay and an artist colony all the way south (Little Harbor?). Whatever you choose, enjoy the trip and post pics. Drew

Response:

I’ve done both, and am fairly familiar with out islands of the Bahamas. As to the Green Turtle Club itself, the food is good, the dockage reasonable, an we’ve had a good time when we’ve been. We must have been there at different times. My trip 5 years ago provided horrible overcooked food at typical high prices for the area. Other dining options are limited except for a 3 mile golf cart ride to New Plymouth. On a good day the smoke from the dump goes out to sea while Brendle, the dive boat captain, will hit on anything with a skirt.

Are you sure you aren’t thinking of the other "resort" there, the Bluff House?  Of course, as always, YMMV. My favorite place in the area is Hopetown and Elbow Cay with a little more to do and the variety to keep the trip interesting. Some cottage rentals offer an ocean view and a harbor view. I’ve never bonefished the area, but from what I’ve heard a good guide will be a big plus. A good plan is to rent a Boston Whaler and with Elbow Cay smack in the middle you can easily cover a good portion of the Abaco Sea. Marsh Harbor is just west with great diving down at Sandy Cay and an artist colony all the way south (Little Harbor?).

I would agree that basing at Marsh Harbour is _probably_ a better plan for most who are staying on land. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Whatever you choose, enjoy the trip and post pics. Drew

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We usually do these trips in April, usually the first week after the "high season".

…and…in your case, that would be when? <g jeff

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We must have been there at different times. My trip 5 years ago provided horrible overcooked food at typical high prices for the area. Other dining options are limited except for a 3 mile golf cart ride to New Plymouth. On a good day the smoke from the dump goes out to sea while Brendle, the dive boat captain, will hit on anything with a skirt. Are you sure you aren’t thinking of the other "resort" there, the Bluff House?  Of course, as always, YMMV.

Nope. I’m speaking of the one right down on the water. Did eat at the Bluff House once, but it was their weekly BBQ. Not bad, but still the options are limited on that end of the cay IMO. Maybe we hit them on a bad week. My favorite place in the area is Hopetown and Elbow Cay with a little more to do and the variety to keep the trip interesting. Some cottage rentals offer an ocean view and a harbor view. I’ve never bonefished the area, but from what I’ve heard a good guide will be a big plus. A good plan is to rent a Boston Whaler and with Elbow Cay smack in the middle you can easily cover a good portion of the Abaco Sea. Marsh Harbor is just west with great diving down at Sandy Cay and an artist colony all the way south (Little Harbor?). I would agree that basing at Marsh Harbour is _probably_ a better plan for most who are staying on land.

But Marsh Harbor doesn’t give you the ocean and diving right off the beach. Hmm. ‘Bout time for another trip…. I’m out of 222s (a good pain reliever). Drew

Response:

A little update on some info.  I spoke to Jeffrey Cardenas (The Saltwater Angler, www.saltwaterangler.com) and they aren’t doing anything in Abacos currently, but this was suggested (with no comment, good or bad): www.abacoflyfish.com TC, R

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I would agree that basing at Marsh Harbour is _probably_ a better plan for most who are staying on land. But Marsh Harbor doesn’t give you the ocean and diving right off the beach. Hmm. ‘Bout time for another trip…. I’m out of 222s (a good pain reliever).

Well, maybe not like the cays, but Marsh Harbour, is, well, a harbor, so there’s plenty of water.  But as you point out, (land)basing from one of the cays limits you in other ways, sometimes not well-taken by those who wish varied activity over a 10-day trip.  From MN, you can easily get to just about anywhere in the Abacos via ferry for a, pardon the pun, day trip, and while Dave fishes, his wife can shop, tour, etc.  - IIRC, she isn’t a fisher?  IOW, from MH, you can just go wherever whatever the first ferry that happens to be handy is going and likely find something, but at the cays, you might have to plan, call/radio, and/or wait, and you can just about do/see all there is to do/see in GTC in about a day and a half if you wish to "go and do." Now, all that said, I would not recommend basing from Treasure Cay (or even bothering to go for more than a half-day) as, IMO, it’s like a mini-Freeport and likely to eventually screw up the immediate surrounding area of Abacos.  Hopefully, it’ll take it in the shorts again, and this time, they’ll tear the whole flockin’ place down and be done with it. As to the codeine pills, I don’t like ‘em or trust ‘em, but ‘tripper oughta love ‘em…<G.  I think you can get a lower-strength Tylenol 3 (Tylenol 2?) in the States with a prescription.  My father swears by them, but all they do for me is make me sleepy. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Drew

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Well, maybe not like the cays, but Marsh Harbour, is, well, a harbor, so

To me, Hope Town is prettier with almost the same frequency of ferry service. Now, all that said, I would not recommend basing from Treasure Cay (or

Not even worth the time to even go there. As to the codeine pills, I don’t like ‘em or trust ‘em, but ‘tripper oughta love ‘em…<G.  I think you can get a lower-strength Tylenol 3

Codeine works different on different people. For those who may benefit it is legal to bring in 100 tablets per person. Drew

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, maybe not like the cays, but Marsh Harbour, is, well, a harbor, so To me, Hope Town is prettier with almost the same frequency of ferry service. Now, all that said, I would not recommend basing from Treasure Cay (or Not even worth the time to even go there. As to the codeine pills, I don’t like ‘em or trust ‘em, but ‘tripper oughta love ‘em…<G.  I think you can get a lower-strength Tylenol 3 Codeine works different on different people. For those who may benefit it is legal to bring in 100 tablets per person. Drew

I’m surrounded by lightweights!  ;-) From the years of suffering with that damaged disc that was cleaned up this spring I squirreled away enough stuff to whack a herd of rhinos for a week with a multi-colored hail of doses. MMMmmm…doses….! And none of it has that godawful liver-killing should-never-have-passed-muster-with-the-FDA Tylenol. /daytripper (Go big or go home: Oxycodone and Oxycontin rule!  ;-)

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We usually do these trips in April, usually the first week after the "high season". …and…in your case, that would be when? <g jeff

Well…um….that would be…er…well….hmmm…. /daytripper ("Quickly! To the laboratory!")

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The SO has proposed Green Turtle Cay in the Abacos for our annual island trip next April. She’s been seeing lots of positive bonefishing references so she figures it’s a lock for me to go along with her schemes We’d stay at the Green Turtle Club resort/marina, fwiw. http://www.greenturtleclub.com/ And I’m looking for anyone with any direct experience with the eastern Abaco islands, the Green Turtle Club, and more importantly, the fishing! Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones

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Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones

    a former law partner of mine has often visited his father’s "cottage" on green turtle cay.  i will try to check with him and report back. yfitons wayno

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Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones    a former law partner of mine has often visited his father’s "cottage" on green turtle cay.  i will try to check with him and report back. yfitons wayno

Thanks mfitons!

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well now… this sounds like an opportunity for several of us with SOs(note the lack of apostrophe) to get some SO approval… so, when will you and your wife be sponsoring this vacation a/k/a excuse for bonefishing? jeff (who knows somebody who knows somebody thats got an abacos spot) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The SO has proposed Green Turtle Cay in the Abacos for our annual island trip next April. She’s been seeing lots of positive bonefishing references so she figures it’s a lock for me to go along with her schemes We’d stay at the Green Turtle Club resort/marina, fwiw. http://www.greenturtleclub.com/ And I’m looking for anyone with any direct experience with the eastern Abaco islands, the Green Turtle Club, and more importantly, the fishing! Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones

Response:

The SO has proposed Green Turtle Cay in the Abacos for our annual island trip next April. She’s been seeing lots of positive bonefishing references so she figures it’s a lock for me to go along with her schemes We’d stay at the Green Turtle Club resort/marina, fwiw. http://www.greenturtleclub.com/ And I’m looking for anyone with any direct experience with the eastern Abaco islands, the Green Turtle Club, and more importantly, the fishing! Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback.

I’ve done both, and am fairly familiar with out islands of the Bahamas. As to the Green Turtle Club itself, the food is good, the dockage reasonable, an we’ve had a good time when we’ve been.  I glanced at the site, and I’d say it’s pretty representative – in fact, I think I have some pictures taken in the dining room and patio area, and they look a lot like those on the site.   Really, it depends on what you want.  If you want moderate isolation, Green Turtle is fairly so, but not ridiculously so.  If you want a little more to do, and don’t want a boat, you could stay at Marsh Harbour and ferry to the Cays (Green Turtle has a ferry service from MH to GTC, and there are plenty of ferry services around the Abacos). Also, GTC has several other accommodation options, such as cottages and houses, that I see in a newspaper from earlier in the year. The outers are a little different from the "tourist" island areas like Freeport and Nassau, and, IMO, are like no other area in the world.  You have yachts (and I mean YACHTS) that cruise the area, but it is all pretty casual and laid-back.  If you want more info on the area, drop me an email.   IMO, the best deal going in places like the Abacos, USVI/BVI, etc. is to rent a boat (pref. sail, but a trawler if you must) and cruise the islands.  The general area is easy sailing (although you must pay attention to tide times) with lots of areas to visit, dive, fish, party, or whatever.  Room rates run 200.00-plus USD a day, plus taxes, additional charges, meal plans, etc., and for about the same money, you can get a boat – of course, YMMV.  If you are interested, Moorings has a location in MH, or check any of the boating/sailing mags like Motorboating & Sailing, Yachting, Sailing, etc. TC, R PS – FWIW, the members of certain yacht clubs get discounts at many of the clubs in the Bahamas, or at least reciprocation, and that may be worth looking into, if applicable for you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -/daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The SO has proposed Green Turtle Cay in the Abacos for our annual island trip next April. She’s been seeing lots of positive bonefishing references so she figures it’s a lock for me to go along with her schemes We’d stay at the Green Turtle Club resort/marina, fwiw. http://www.greenturtleclub.com/ And I’m looking for anyone with any direct experience with the eastern Abaco islands, the Green Turtle Club, and more importantly, the fishing! Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones well now… this sounds like an opportunity for several of us with SOs(note the lack of apostrophe) to get some SO approval… so, when will you and your wife be sponsoring this vacation a/k/a excuse for bonefishing? jeff (who knows somebody who knows somebody thats got an abacos spot)

We usually do these trips in April, usually the first week after the "high season". We’re still shopping around the Abacos but I think Herself has seen enough to make her "half" of the decision… /daytripper (that would be the big half, of course

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The SO has proposed Green Turtle Cay in the Abacos for our annual island trip next April. She’s been seeing lots of positive bonefishing references so she figures it’s a lock for me to go along with her schemes We’d stay at the Green Turtle Club resort/marina, fwiw. http://www.greenturtleclub.com/ And I’m looking for anyone with any direct experience with the eastern Abaco islands, the Green Turtle Club, and more importantly, the fishing! Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. I’ve done both, and am fairly familiar with out islands of the Bahamas. As to the Green Turtle Club itself, the food is good, the dockage reasonable, an we’ve had a good time when we’ve been.  I glanced at the site, and I’d say it’s pretty representative – in fact, I think I have some pictures taken in the dining room and patio area, and they look a lot like those on the site.   Really, it depends on what you want.  If you want moderate isolation, Green Turtle is fairly so, but not ridiculously so.  If you want a little more to do, and don’t want a boat, you could stay at Marsh Harbour and ferry to the Cays (Green Turtle has a ferry service from MH to GTC, and there are plenty of ferry services around the Abacos). Also, GTC has several other accommodation options, such as cottages and houses, that I see in a newspaper from earlier in the year. The outers are a little different from the "tourist" island areas like Freeport and Nassau, and, IMO, are like no other area in the world.  You have yachts (and I mean YACHTS) that cruise the area, but it is all pretty casual and laid-back.  If you want more info on the area, drop me an email.   IMO, the best deal going in places like the Abacos, USVI/BVI, etc. is to rent a boat (pref. sail, but a trawler if you must) and cruise the islands.  The general area is easy sailing (although you must pay attention to tide times) with lots of areas to visit, dive, fish, party, or whatever.  Room rates run 200.00-plus USD a day, plus taxes, additional charges, meal plans, etc., and for about the same money, you can get a boat – of course, YMMV.  If you are interested, Moorings has a location in MH, or check any of the boating/sailing mags like Motorboating & Sailing, Yachting, Sailing, etc. TC, R PS – FWIW, the members of certain yacht clubs get discounts at many of the clubs in the Bahamas, or at least reciprocation, and that may be worth looking into, if applicable for you. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones

"I wouldn’t join a yagt…yauht….BOAT club that would have me as a member!" <attributable_to_someone_noteworthy_I_am_soooo_sure Thanks for the start, Richard. My wife and I enjoyed the heck out of Anegada, population under 100 and which I’d call "severely isolated", compared to Green Turtle Cay – which looks to be fairly teeming with humanity and is a short boat ride to a whole lot of touristy stuff by comparison. But if the fishing is good enough I’ll put up with a lot We had considered the Tiamo resort on south Andros, but someone or something put the wife onto this place, hence the grape vine initiative… I’m not sure that the spousal unit is ready for a week and a half on a boat, though the idea has it’s intrigue. She’s done day sails on schooners and didn’t go green, so there’s a possibility she’ll surprise me. I shall bounce it off Herself and note her first reaction (the only one that counts I plan on at least renting a boat, hopefully a center console in the 20 foot range while we’re wherever we’re going to be. I’ve looked at the rates and they seem more than reasonable ("Wait’ll you see the boat, though!" We had also considered a different place closer to the Marls on the western side of Abaco, but my wife read that the guides that work out of the eastern cays can scoot over to the Marls quickly enough. The scale of these islands escapes me,  seems much smaller than I had imagined. Again, thanks for the feedback, if you have more on the GTC thing I’d appreciate it (as email if you prefer). /daytripper

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Question:

Maybe so, but the skill is in knowing *how* to ask. Or *who*, I suppose. <g — Charlie… and *WHEN*!

"Welcome to the Little Wayno School of Scoring (We Never Close)" /daytripper ("Lesson 1: Ask Early And Often"

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"The difference between a good nymph fisherman and a great nymph fisherman is often one split shot." Origin unknown

"There’s a fine line between flyfishing and standing in water looking stupid" The Same Guy

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe so, but the skill is in knowing *how* to ask. Or *who*, I suppose. <g — Charlie… and *WHEN*! "Welcome to the Little Wayno School of Scoring (We Never Close)" /daytripper ("Lesson 1: Ask Early And Often"

        and knowing how to play that martin d-28 while you lay out "hello cowgirl in the sand" don’t hurt all that bad, either…         yfitons         wayno

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Maybe so, but the skill is in knowing *how* to ask. Or *who*, I suppose. <g — Charlie…

and *WHEN*! — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

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  I fine that flyfishermen are like golfers. Sooner or later, the guy next to   you will have a helpful suggestion. It may be about your cast, your flies,   your strategy…whatever. However, unlike golfers advice, this input is   usually welcomed and helpful. I’ve gotten alot of good advice over the years. Although this wouldn’t be the best advice I’ve gotten, it sticks in my head and serves as a reminder to be open minded and receptive to other peoples’ suggestions. I was fishing the stretch of my home river that I fish the most. I’ve been fishing it for over fifteen years and know it very well. I was fishing a riffle just upstream from a deep pool, when a young woman came up to me and informed me that there were some trout rising in the pool that she couldn’t reach because she only had on hipboots. It was the middle of a summer day and I was sure that the fish rising were the school of small Browns that are "always" rising in this pool. I thanked her and finished fishing the riffle I was working. I KNEW that they were just piddler fish rising and was going to continue working my way upstream but decided to give the rising fish a shot. To make a long story short, I ended up getting some very nice fish in the pool. Willi

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Though referring to a different venue – "It is always easier to beg forgiveness than get permission. "  - Adm. Grace Hopper Bob Weinberger

MUCH different venu.  Not only are there laws, try begging forgiveness from two 6′3" older brothers with attitudes and firearms! — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

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"Wayne" wrote… "if you don’t ask for it, you never will get it" Maybe so, but the skill is in knowing *how* to ask.

Practice, practice, practice. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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at the tender age of 16 from a young lady "if you don’t ask for it, you never will get it" — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Though referring to a different venue – "It is always easier to beg forgiveness than get permission. "  - Adm. Grace Hopper Bob Weinberger

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"Wayne" wrote… "if you don’t ask for it, you never will get it" Maybe so, but the skill is in knowing *how* to ask.

Or *who*, I suppose. <g — Charlie…

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<SNIP . He suggested on my backcast to think "back and UP". <SNIP Actually, I said. "Think UP! -NOT- BACK!", ( That

Question:

Frank The next fishing truck will likely be a Nissan Xterra – it has a first aid kit and looks like a poor man’s Rover. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at

http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html I just bought an Xterra about month ago. Seems like a pretty well thought out vehicle. You can get waterproof neoprene seat covers, it has a basket within the roof rack (rack is well capable of hauling a canoe) thats great for waders and boots. The back seat is higher than convential rear seats, (Nissan calls it stadium seating) that is great for my kids to see out on some of the less travelled roads that Dad takes them on. Tim, not an x’r, Long Before you buy.

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(snip glowing review of ford econoline van)

    there you have it; unabashed praise by the very soul of practical living:  john asadi!     and i woulda had him figured for a clapped-out karmann-ghia! wayno

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in anticipation of the next model year.  I just went out and finally got me a pick-em-up truck!  Its a 2000 Ford Ranger with the Trailhead package, 3.0L V6, nice wheels and a bedliner.   The biggest thing that 4WD has done for me is reduce the gas mileage.  Thoughts?

I got a 2wd Mazda (Ranger).  180lbs of sand over the rear wheels and I’ve had no problem.  Very few 4wd vehicles are expected to go off road anyway. Just be careful in the rain & snow and you’ll have no problem (I spun out on I-80 once but it was entirely my fault and I’ve learned my lesson). Mu

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Thinkin’ that my next fishing vehicle might be a 2003 Ford Escape Hybrid. Get’s 40 mpg. Mu

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 Thoughts?

Ex NATO Unimog. — Charlie…

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Frank Three years ago, I bought a new Mazda B4000 extended cab 2 w. drive and put a cap on it.  The thing is 100% Ranger with a Mazda nameplate. It even says "Ford" on the inside of the doors.   It has heavy duty everything, limited slip, semi-knobby tires and today it saw a little offroading as I drove it into a field to get to a nice fishing spot. The thing has 126K miles so far, aiming for 250k.  It’s been re-ended three times and smacked in the front three times.  The paint’s peeling off the cap, the front bumper has seen better days and it has a persistent missfire that’s driving me nuts.  It’s even transported a severely hungover Forty (who isn’t here to defend himself) at a high rate of knots in pursuit of pj, ash, and jeffy.  It’ll hold all my fishing shit plus two inflated float tubes and enough beer to last anyone. The next fishing truck will likely be a Nissan Xterra – it has a first aid kit and looks like a poor man’s Rover. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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The next fishing truck will likely be a Nissan Xterra – it has a first aid kit and looks like a poor man’s Rover.

Unless I can find an original Toyota Land Crusier in good shape.  I love those old, ugly muthas. Peter Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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   Okay folks, we all done heard about your favorite old fishing car. The topic for today:  New Fishing Cars.  If you could get something in the 2000-2001 model year as a fishing car, within the price range of the average joe (no Humvee, but man would I love one), what would it be.

Hi, I’m partial to Toyota pickups, as are the local car thieves. So when my last one went away without my permission, it was replaced by a Subaru 4wd wagon. Not quite as tough as the truck in ugly situations, but still we’ve taken it lots of places we weren’t sure it would go! Only problem is it only sleeps one comfortably… Cheers, Rick

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the 2000-2001 model year as a fishing car, within the price range of the average joe (no Humvee, but man would I love one), what would it be.

In Feb. I bought a new Ford F150 XLT short narrow bed in black with air-conditioning and the largest v-8 they make in a 1/2 ton. I think it is against the law to sell a vehicle in Texas without an air-conditioner. Well if not it should be. The only problem I have had is living in this information age. The damn thing has one of those little gadgets that tells you how hot it is inside the cab of the truck…when it is 106 outside and the black truck has been parked in the sun and I get in and start the truck I don’t want to know that it is 165 degrees in the cab of the truck. I gotta move somewhere where it is not so damn hot!!!!! Big Dale  

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.Three years ago, I bought a new Mazda B4000 extended cab 2 w. drive and put a cap on it. The thing has 126K miles so far, aiming for 250k

    42K per year?!  Man, you be the king of road warriors.  I’ll have to look at the Mazda (in 15 or 20 years when this Ranger finally gives up the ghost.).         Frank Reid Before you buy.

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Unless I can find an original Toyota Land Crusier in good shape.  I love those old, ugly muthas.

Yeah, those things are great. I’d love to have one, too, but the prices on ‘em around here (foothills of California’s Sierra Nevada) tend to be higher than Jim Morrison when he wrote "An American Prayer." My current must-have fishing vehicle is a late-model VW Vanagon Syncro 4WD with the Westfalia camper conversion. My wife and I did a four month driveabout through great, gaping chunks of the U.S. and Canada in a VW Eurovan camper a few years back and have lusted after the Vanagon syncro model ever since (shorter wheelbase than the EV, higher ground clearance, and the Westfalia conversion is to the Winnebago conversion as the novels of Philip Roth are to those of Norman Mailer — more fully realized in much less space). Alas, the syncro campers suffer from the same malady as the old Toyota LC’s — everyone else wants one too, so the prices are Italian lettuce (which is to say, radicchio). – sid not portnoy, but complaining anyway

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Well….one of these days I’ll have to woryy about gas mileage but by then maybe the manufacturers will have done better – yeah right… anyhow, I’m partial to Econline vans.  I get the plastic like your grandmother used for the walkways in her house and cut it to fit/cover the entire floor area. Muddy feet and such..?…just sweep clean and then mop. I haul wood in the very back…with old sheets or greasy dirty stuff with a plastic tablecloth.  Enough room to sleep in in a pinch….even two people if the captains chairs in the passenger area are removed. Lay the back seat down and I can haul 4 x 8 sheets of anything. My kayak fits in to where I can shut the doors. Wolf, RW and Kn will be pleased to know that I made some rod holders that keep all rods up by the ceiling over your head. lot to be said for hauling four or six adults….comfortably, with plenty of room…..somebody in your group has to be able to do that. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Okay folks, we all done heard about your favorite old fishing car. The topic for today:  New Fishing Cars.  If you could get something in the 2000-2001 model year as a fishing car, within the price range of the average joe (no Humvee, but man would I love one), what would it be. Try to keep your price under $30,000.  If some one gets some real good ideas, then maybe the clavemeister can donate one (just kiddin Warren).   I ask the question because a lot of cars are going on sale real cheap in anticipation of the next model year.  I just went out and finally got me a pick-em-up truck!  Its a 2000 Ford Ranger with the Trailhead package, 3.0L V6, nice wheels and a bedliner.  Got it for less than $14,000 with currently 107 miles on it.   Now for me, this is a good vehicle.  Its not something I will freek out over if it gets seriously crunched, it is infinately modifiable, it has alot of get up and go for city driving (not all my time is spent fishing), it is comfortable for the long ride, and I can take a hose to the interior (with some of my fishing buddies, this is often necessary). It doesn’t have 4 wheel drive, but then again, with all the 4WD vehicles I’ve ever had, I’ve rarely used it (not saying it didn’t come in handy when I did need it).  The biggest thing that 4WD has done for me is reduce the gas mileage.  Thoughts?       Frank Reid Before you buy.

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‘01 Subaru Forester to replace my ‘98. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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 I have a Dodge Dakota 4×4 which serves me fine. Being a mid size I managed to get down a couple of trails that a full size might have had a little trouble. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Okay folks, we all done heard about your favorite old fishing car. The topic for today:  New Fishing Cars.  If you could get something in the 2000-2001 model year as a fishing car, within the price range of the average joe (no Humvee, but man would I love one), what would it be. Try to keep your price under $30,000.  If some one gets some real good ideas, then maybe the clavemeister can donate one (just kiddin Warren).   I ask the question because a lot of cars are going on sale real cheap in anticipation of the next model year.  I just went out and finally got me a pick-em-up truck!  Its a 2000 Ford Ranger with the Trailhead package, 3.0L V6, nice wheels and a bedliner.  Got it for less than $14,000 with currently 107 miles on it.   Now for me, this is a good vehicle.  Its not something I will freek out over if it gets seriously crunched, it is infinately modifiable, it has alot of get up and go for city driving (not all my time is spent fishing), it is comfortable for the long ride, and I can take a hose to the interior (with some of my fishing buddies, this is often necessary). It doesn’t have 4 wheel drive, but then again, with all the 4WD vehicles I’ve ever had, I’ve rarely used it (not saying it didn’t come in handy when I did need it).  The biggest thing that 4WD has done for me is reduce the gas mileage.  Thoughts?       Frank Reid Before you buy.

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4WD Toyota Pickup King Cab, good gas mileage comfortable and very reliable. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Okay folks, we all done heard about your favorite old fishing car. The topic for today:  New Fishing Cars.  If you could get something in the 2000-2001 model year as a fishing car, <snip Frank Reid

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Hi Frank, I just did something similar to your Ranger, except I’m a real Cheapo.  I looked at the Rangers, Tacoma’s, S-10, Sonoma etc.  All too expensive for me (On a budget – Student Loans).  I wanted a Tacoma as I have a preference to Toyota related back to some good experiences.  However, cheapest bottom of the line 4 cylinder stripped was $13,700. I found an Izusu dealership with some deals through the fleet department on stripped 2000 Hombres for $9,777.  It came with bumper and A/C (This is Arizona – A/C is standard).  I had to go out and buy my own Stereo. It’s a 4 cylinder, but still has enough power to climb the Mogollon Rim so that’s OK. I have a little over 5,000 miles on it and been up the Rim about 4 times. So far, I am very happy with it. I plan to put a shell on it and build a camping unit in back.  I’ve done this before in Toyota pickups and have been very successful with the outcome. Good Luck — Bill Endicott

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Okay folks, we all done heard about your favorite old fishing car. The topic for today:  New Fishing Cars.  If you could get something in the 2000-2001 model year as a fishing car, within the price range of the average joe (no Humvee, but man would I love one), what would it be. Try to keep your price under $30,000.  If some one gets some real good ideas, then maybe the clavemeister can donate one (just kiddin Warren).    I ask the question because a lot of cars are going on sale real cheap in anticipation of the next model year.  I just went out and finally got me a pick-em-up truck!  Its a 2000 Ford Ranger with the Trailhead package, 3.0L V6, nice wheels and a bedliner.  Got it for less than $14,000 with currently 107 miles on it.    Now for me, this is a good vehicle.  Its not something I will freek out over if it gets seriously crunched, it is infinately modifiable, it has alot of get up and go for city driving (not all my time is spent fishing), it is comfortable for the long ride, and I can take a hose to the interior (with some of my fishing buddies, this is often necessary). It doesn’t have 4 wheel drive, but then again, with all the 4WD vehicles I’ve ever had, I’ve rarely used it (not saying it didn’t come in handy when I did need it).  The biggest thing that 4WD has done for me is reduce the gas mileage.  Thoughts?        Frank Reid Before you buy.

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Frank, I’d say you got a good price on that truck.  Now, me bein’ a loyal Toyota fan, my current 91 Toy pick-em-up is due for a replacement in a year or two, but if I could do it now, it’d be another Toyota 2 wheel drive Xlong cab to stow all my fishin’ gear behind the front seat and out of sight. A 6′ bed with cap, and a 4" foam mattress and sleeping bag/pillow/teddy bear in the back. (exactly the setup I have now) I have spent many a happy nite in my little rice burner and saved more than the price of the truck on motel bills I didn’t run up.  You might get to see it if I can make the mini-clave with you guys in August. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RET.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Okay folks, we all done heard about your favorite old fishing car. The topic for today:  New Fishing Cars.  If you could get something in the 2000-2001 model year as a fishing car, within the price range of the average joe (no Humvee, but man would I love one), what would it be. Try to keep your price under $30,000.  If some one gets some real good ideas, then maybe the clavemeister can donate one (just kiddin Warren).    I ask the question because a lot of cars are going on sale real cheap in anticipation of the next model year.  I just went out and finally got me a pick-em-up truck!  Its a 2000 Ford Ranger with the Trailhead package, 3.0L V6, nice wheels and a bedliner.  Got it for less than $14,000 with currently 107 miles on it.    Now for me, this is a good vehicle.  Its not something I will freek out over if it gets seriously crunched, it is infinately modifiable, it has alot of get up and go for city driving (not all my time is spent fishing), it is comfortable for the long ride, and I can take a hose to the interior (with some of my fishing buddies, this is often necessary). It doesn’t have 4 wheel drive, but then again, with all the 4WD vehicles I’ve ever had, I’ve rarely used it (not saying it didn’t come in handy when I did need it).  The biggest thing that 4WD has done for me is reduce the gas mileage.  Thoughts?        Frank Reid Before you buy.

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Hello, I wanted a pickup so I could have the back for dirty stuff like outboard motors with stinky gas tanks, electric motors with batteries and dirty waders and boots. I am going to my local small town Ford dealer soon and order a new 2001 Ranger pickup. I am getting the new 205hp overhead cam V6, 5 speed auto trans, 4 wheel drive, limited slip, trailer package. I am going to put on a good canopy w/boat rack for my canoe or 10′ Valco pram. I am getting a larger 16′ boat, motor and trailer so I wanted 4 wheel drive for launching it in bad places. I guess it will be around $25,000. I had an Explorer once that I really loved and this is built on the same platform. The cab is a little more comfortable than most other small trucks. Ranger is the top selling small pickup in it’s class for over a decade.  – Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Okay folks, we all done heard about your favorite old fishing car. The topic for today:  New Fishing Cars.  If you could get something in the 2000-2001 model year as a fishing car, within the price range of the average joe (no Humvee, but man would I love one), what would it be. Try to keep your price under $30,000.  If some one gets some real good ideas, then maybe the clavemeister can donate one (just kiddin Warren).    I ask the question because a lot of cars are going on sale real cheap in anticipation of the next model year.  I just went out and finally got me a pick-em-up truck!  Its a 2000 Ford Ranger with the Trailhead package, 3.0L V6, nice wheels and a bedliner.  Got it for less than $14,000 with currently 107 miles on it.    Now for me, this is a good vehicle.  Its not something I will freek out over if it gets seriously crunched, it is infinately modifiable, it has alot of get up and go for city driving (not all my time is spent fishing), it is comfortable for the long ride, and I can take a hose to the interior (with some of my fishing buddies, this is often necessary). It doesn’t have 4 wheel drive, but then again, with all the 4WD vehicles I’ve ever had, I’ve rarely used it (not saying it didn’t come in handy when I did need it).  The biggest thing that 4WD has done for me is reduce the gas mileage.  Thoughts?        Frank Reid Before you buy.

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Thoughts?

My current car is a 97 Expedition XLT 4WD 5.4 L. It replaced my Rodeo by being able to tow the Tournament 19 and carry my fly rods rigged overhead w/ the use of web rod holders. My next vehicle will be a Navigator. Capt. Gary S. Colecchio West Palm Beach "The only people who have any business fishing are  young boys and married men. Everyone else should be  out getting laid."  …I said that.

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  Okay folks, we all done heard about your favorite old fishing car. The topic for today:  New Fishing Cars.  If you could get something in the 2000-2001 model year as a fishing car, within the price range of the average joe (no Humvee, but man would I love one), what would it be.

        subaru station wagon.  but, truth be known, i’d rather have charlie choc’s "used" land rover 90 series.  damn thing is in better condition than it was when it left the showroom floor. wayno

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wayno, underachiever, writes: subaru station wagon.  but, truth be known, i’d rather have charlie choc’s "used" land rover 90 series.  damn thing is in better condition than it was when it left the showroom floor.

Audi Avant.  The new "off roader".  Plenty of power and luxury, yet rugged and able to take you just about anywhere with Audi’s Quattro system of all-wheel drive.  And it’ll last you a life time.  Wouldn’t mind havin’ Choc man’s 90 rover either. Dave LaCourse

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I’m partial to 4WD pickups, but to be honest since I needed a dadmobile I settled for a Cherokee a couple of years ago. My favorite fishing ride was an old jeep commanche with an aluminum cap, we put some fishing miles on that one and never got stuck, can’t say that for my old nissan pickup, we got stuck once or twice in 190K miles… Got my eye on a king cab toyota tacoma 4WD for the next ordealmaster pickup, add a cap and it’s the balls for carrying the canoe and float tube out to the woods of Maine for the odd brookie or two. Flyfish

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   Okay folks, we all done heard about your favorite old fishing car. The topic for today:  New Fishing Cars.  If you could get something in the 2000-2001 model year as a fishing car, within the price range of the average joe (no Humvee, but man would I love one), what would it be. Try to keep your price under $30,000.  <snip It doesn’t have 4 wheel drive, but then again, with all the 4WD vehicles I’ve ever had, I’ve rarely used it (not saying it didn’t come in handy when I did need it).  The biggest thing that 4WD has done for me is reduce the gas mileage.  Thoughts?        Frank Reid

Frank,   Sounds like you’ve got a pretty nice rig at a reasonable price.   I’ve got a 98 Jeep Grand Cherokee.  We bought it new and have put on 57,000 miles in just over 2 years.  I was thinking about trading for a GMC 1/2 ton club cab with 4 doors, 4×4, etc. and then plugged in what the wholesale price on my used Jeep was.  Around $15,000.  It cost me $7,500/year to own a new Jeep.  Bummer.  The Jeep has been the finest auto that I’ve ever owned.  I love it.  It drives like a car and yet will go anywhere I care to go.  Ownership has been trouble free.  I decided to buy an extended warranty which will get me past 92,000 miles.  Depreciation should slow down over the next few years.  In a couple of years, I’m thinking I will trade the wife’s Miata off and get a slightly used pickup (above) and keep the Jeep for local driving.   I did look at new Jeeps but they changed the shape of the rear opening and my pontoon would not fit through it.  If anyone in the group is considering a Jeep, I would highly recommend that they buy one with the "Up Country" suspension.  This not only raises the Jeep a bit but makes highway driving much more enjoyable.  I wouldn’t have a Jeep without this option.   One could possibly get by without 4 wheel drive around here.  One of the main advantages is the increased height.  This is an advantage whether climbing rocks or plowing through snow.  A 2 wheel drive pickup with positraction or a rear end locker and taller tires would probably go almost anywhere a 4×4 would go for most folks.  There are a few trails around here where 4×4’s are essential, though.   I’m heading to the western clave tomorrow a.m.  The Jeep is going to be pretty full.  A short box pickup with a topper would be nice for both hauling stuff and sleeping.  I’m not much of a fan of sleeping on the ground.  And, with some of our fellow roffers being so close by, sleeping quarters with locks might not be a bad idea:) Bob Skinner   Buffalo, WY — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

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   Okay folks, we all done heard about your favorite old fishing car. The topic for today:  New Fishing Cars.  If you could get something in the 2000-2001 model year as a fishing car, within the price range of the average joe (no Humvee, but man would I love one), what would it be. Try to keep your price under $30,000.  If some one gets some real good ideas, then maybe the clavemeister can donate one (just kiddin Warren).    I ask the question because a lot of cars are going on sale real cheap in anticipation of the next model year.  I just went out and finally got me a pick-em-up truck!  Its a 2000 Ford Ranger with the Trailhead package, 3.0L V6, nice wheels and a bedliner.  Got it for less than $14,000 with currently 107 miles on it.    Now for me, this is a good vehicle.  Its not something I will freek out over if it gets seriously crunched, it is infinately modifiable, it has alot of get up and go for city driving (not all my time is spent fishing), it is comfortable for the long ride, and I can take a hose to the interior (with some of my fishing buddies, this is often necessary). It doesn’t have 4 wheel drive, but then again, with all the 4WD vehicles I’ve ever had, I’ve rarely used it (not saying it didn’t come in handy when I did need it).  The biggest thing that 4WD has done for me is reduce the gas mileage.  Thoughts?        Frank Reid Before you buy.

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hairy Trout writes: Now we have Hairy Trout telling us that "David H is real."  But, who is Hairy Trou?.  Can we trust him?  Is he just another of Mr. G’s aliases? Look in GG’s archives and see if you can find references to Doug Knight. That’s who ‘hairy’ is, he actually went to work with George for a while but things ‘didn’t work out’<g. <g is right. "didn’t work out" may be the understatement of 1999… It’s more like wouldn’t work out. The Company was to be turned over to my control but it wasn’t.  And when it was I was treated as a mere Forman. Big fukin’ Joke. The real fraud was that he was wasting my time. In reality he couldn’t make his mill work. I DID. When I left, my secrets went with me. I figured that the time I spent there was worth at least 15K plus expenses. There were many promises made which were basically worthless. Much like everything else about the operation. Rub the Genies Lamp. What he learned in 8 months I learned in 6 short weeks and that frightened him. There a has been a toughen biting silence on my part since August

All I can say, Doug, is live and learn.  You obviously can not trust some people.  I am willing to bet that Dave H. is either one of George’s employees, or a new found friend not yet corrupted.  I think most appreciate your candid remarks about George and his operation.  Perhaps Dave H.  will soon join you. Dave L.

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And Dave H earns the Plonk of the Week Award. THIS IS SPAMING

<ad nauseum

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THen would he have qualified as a ff’er? If so maybe HE could have shown me how to cast properly and then be able to enjoy more of this sport<G Inner demons have kept me at this game and I am afraid mine will keep me on the river and the tying bench as well. Ghosts of fish to be caught and those that got away will haunt me forever!! Merry Xmas to all Pierre – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – THIS IS SPAMING THIS IS SPAMING THIS IS SPAMING An appropriate simile would be that of Edgar A. Poe.  A brilliant man, a literay giant.  But alas there the simile ends.  For he too was driven by the inner demons.  Suffering bouts alcholic binges, he would abstain and attempt self medication with available depressants, much like some do today with anti-depressants…so ineptly named. The chemical imbalance somewhat interuppted, he would again then be functional for a short while before the manic-depressive personality disorder manifested itself. Thank god he didn’t have the internet……the good would have been lost among the endless drivel. A shame too, that they didn’t have a good twelve step program at that time, for it deals with the manner of ones thinking, the drinking being only a symptom. Who votes that we forward every damned item in this newsgroup to our own….E.A. Poe…oughta occupy his damend fingers for a while, eh?…. by the way….the kid really got off on the norad/santa thing…..thanks for

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<snipped Dave, I did a little investigating.  Mr. David Henney’s ISP is southwind.net, which is based out of Wichita, Kansas and they outsource their news service to bcandid.com.   bc.

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says… THen would he have qualified as a ff’er? If so maybe HE could have shown me how to cast properly and then be able to enjoy more of this sport<G Inner demons have kept me at this game and I am afraid mine will keep me on the river and the tying bench as well. Ghosts of fish to be caught and those that got away will haunt me forever!! Merry Xmas to all Pierre

Ah Pierre, You should not have to complain! I hear it is warmer out your way that this end of the earth! Head out to the outlet from Bonnybrook and do some Catch and Release! The output from the plant is warmer and the trout should still be lingering around there! I am not sure what the water flow is on the Bow now but if I recall correctly it should be pretty low in the winter… — Michael Era

Question:

<cruel gastronomic description filleted Hell of a thing to do to a guy at three in the afternoon with nothing edible is sight! But this is the kind of story we like to read.  While mostly a C&R fisherman (Egad, here it comes again!!) I do nevertheless keep enough to treat myself once in a while.  Your description of smoked ducks brings to mind my favorite preparation for trout.  We set them on the Weber, as far from a small pile of glowing coals as possible and leave them for about an hour and a half, all the while adding small amounts of soaked hickory chips to the fire; just enough to keep the smoke going strong.  Sinfully good!  But to top it off (and healthy be damned!) I like to slather on a bit of brie. As for the elk, or any of it’s relatives for that matter, my favorite is still soaking in olive oil for a few hours, wrapping in bacon and grilling over a hot bed of coals until medium rare, at most.  Personally I prefer rare, but most of the people with whom I enjoy this treat like it cooked a bit more.  For those who like to live close to the edge in these diet conscious days, the aforementioned soft cheese can also be applied to red meat. Also……but no, it’ll have to wait for another time….I gotta go get something to eat!

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Actually, last April we dined on a brace of Elk Steaks marinated for

(delicious feast snipped) Omigosh, Larry! If you can’t figure out anything worthwhile to do with your elk, let me know what Wolfgang can’t use and I’ll send you my UPS address! Hate to see it go to waist (sp intentional!). Drooling out loud, Rick

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As for the elk, or any of it’s relatives for that matter, my favorite is still soaking in olive oil for a few hours, wrapping in bacon and grilling over a hot bed of coals until medium rare, at most.  Personally I prefer rare, but most of the people with whom I enjoy this treat like it cooked a bit more.  For those who like to live close to the edge in these diet conscious days, the aforementioned soft cheese can also be applied to red meat.

While simultaneously drooling on my keyboard, I gotta ask: Not that it’s stopped me from slurping down raw oysters or eating my steaks rare, but we’ve all seen the "news magazine" horror stories about contamination of domestic meats; and we’ve all been cautioned about the wisdom of thoroughly cooking our food.   So this "wild meat" thread has me wondering.   Nutritional values aside, is there a similar risk of e-coli or parasitic infection from eating game cooked rare?   Just wondering. Joe F.

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Joe- I’m sure the same concerns exist, especially because this meat isn’t irradiated to kill any potential diseases and like most hunters, the animals are field dressed, packaged well enough to pack out against the heat of one’s body on a frame and kept from thorough refrigeration for a day or more……then brought home in the bed of a truck or some such device. Same’s true for ducks, geese, pheasant, quail, etc….most hunters will bring em home and hang em for a couple of days prior to guttin’ and pluckin’ em…. helps to age the meat some and also makes em easier to dress out…. But with that said, I gotta ALSO say this….I’ve eaten wild game for some 35 years now, on at least 6 occassions a year (not counting the jerky and salame!!) and have NEVER gotten a case of gastrointestinal distention, much less any more disastrous effect from it, aside from gettin’ stuffed like a pig and not knowing when to say ENOUGH!!!  (BTW, Wild Pig is great too!!!) Now to the rest of you…sorry to set y’all to droolin’ in the middle of the day…..just wasn’t a prudent thing to do, I mean someday I KNOW all a y’all will return the favor =)   Especially those of you who have access to CRAWFISH!!!!   Oh yeah….neighbor has a pair of bucks down at the butcher shop as we speak……hee hee hee…. Larry #:)#

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[pared] Now to the rest of you…sorry to set y’all to droolin’ in the middle of the day…..just wasn’t a prudent thing to do, I mean someday I KNOW all a y’all will return the favor =)   Especially those of you who have access to CRAWFISH!!!!   Oh yeah….neighbor has a pair of bucks down at the butcher shop as we speak……hee hee hee….

Geezus Christmas! Between you and Wolfie (and even "Oyster Joe" ;^) I’m dying here! Show some mercy for someone who had to deal with airline food today! /daytripper (rummaging through the ‘fridge…)

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rare, but we’ve all seen the "news magazine" horror stories about

(contamination, etc) wondering.   Nutritional values aside, is there a similar risk of e-coli or parasitic infection from eating game cooked rare?   Just wondering.

Joe, Don’t know how accurate this info is (wouldn’t want anyone getting sick) but during one of the recent e. coli outbreaks, I was reading some "warning" info in the paper. Author seemed to think the problem with rare meat (red meat, not poultry, which has its own caveats) occurs primarily with ground meat as opposed to "cut" meat like steaks, roasts, etc. The advice was based on the idea that bacteria grow on the surface of the meat and are killed by heat, so the "cut" meat can be cooked rare as long as the outside was cooked well. Ground meat becomes a problem as you shape it into patties or whatever because what was once on the surface could be mixed into the interior and therefore you should cook to much greater degree of "doneness" to ensure you got the bugs. Your local ag extension office probably has a nutritionist that can put this to rest. If not, let me know and I’ll check–my brother-in-law is an extension agent and I’m sure has some info available. Anyway, the newspaper article makes sense on the surface, but I’d like to hear other opinions… Cheers, Rick

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If it makes you all feel better, I caught a 12 inch smallmouth bass today. First cast too! Man are they tasty! ……Well, time for supper!

: [pared] : : Now to the rest of you…sorry to set y’all to droolin’ in the middle of : the day…..just wasn’t a prudent thing to do, I mean someday I KNOW all : a y’all will return the favor =)   Especially those of you who have : access to CRAWFISH!!!!   Oh yeah….neighbor has a pair of bucks down at : the butcher shop as we speak……hee hee hee…. : Geezus Christmas! Between you and Wolfie (and even "Oyster Joe" ;^) : I’m dying here! : Show some mercy for someone who had to deal with airline food today! : /daytripper (rummaging through the ‘fridge…) — I’m a Canadian eh!                                              Steve. The FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking is at: http://w3.uwyo.edu/~metal The metalworking drop box  is at           http://www.metalworking.com                                     or     http://208.213.200.132 Visit my website at: http://www.victoria.tc.ca/~ud233/homepage.htm

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From a river or lake……? do you think it was big enough to have spawned it’s first time….?john

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<good analysis snipped I have thought about this issue long and hard for a long time.  Like Larry, I’ve eaten a lot of game over the years and have never suffered any ill effects from lightly cooked meat.  In fact, I eat venison or some sort of game bird about once a week. Ground meat is obviously more dangerous for the reasons mentioned, i.e. any surface contamination is thoroughly mixed into the center of the mass where the bacteria cannot be killed except by thorough cooking.  But I believe that the problem is exacerbated by the way commercially packaged meat is handled.  The game I eat is processed at home in very small masses.  A couple of birds at a time or a single deer.  Compare this with the beef you just bought at the grocery store.  This package of meat just went down the same line as some hundreds or thousands of pounds of meat processed in the same day.  Any bacterial contamination has all day to grow and multiply.  Add to this the fact that sanitation between days may be less than perfect and you have a situation in which the proliferation of E. choli, Salmonella or other bacteria is virtually assured.  Obviously, contamination can be minimized by scrupulously cleaning all work surfaces but we all know how easy it is for someone to get a little bit careless, especially some underpaid meat cutter bored to distraction by a mindless routine job. In short, it seems to me that, counterintuitively, game processed and packaged at home is likely to be safer than commercially packed meat because it isn’t dragged through the same slime as tons of other meat. Bon Apetit!

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From a lake. There are no smallmouth bass in rivers around here. At 12 inches they have spawned many times!

: From a river or lake……? : do you think it was big enough to have spawned it’s first time….?john — I’m a Canadian eh!                                              Steve. The FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking is at: http://w3.uwyo.edu/~metal The metalworking drop box  is at           http://www.metalworking.com                                     or     http://208.213.200.132 Visit my website at: http://www.victoria.tc.ca/~ud233/homepage.htm

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snip< Bon Apetit!

Thanks Rick, Larry, Dave, & Wolfgang.   My curiosity, if not my appetite, is satisfied. I think I’ll have some sushi tonight. Joe F. "I always eat my oysters fried. That way I know my oyster’s died."     ….Roy Blount, Jr.

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Hello: My second posting ever…but I could use some suggestions. Am trying to tie the Henry’s Fork hopper……bundled elk or deer hair, extended body, etc. I have a little tourble with purportions but that’ll take time I guess.  But most especially, when reversing the elk hair for the body it seems to break and make a rough tail on the body…which is not what I bought…and don’t want to, anymore! I’ve got the books but need some experience…..’hints & kinks’, etc. Thanks for everything you folks post….I appreciate you! Buff

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I would give it up.  The best hopper imitation I have used, is the old trusty Letort Hopper.  I’ve caught lots of big, streamwise brown trout on that fly. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: My second posting ever…but I could use some suggestions. Am trying to tie the Henry’s Fork hopper……bundled elk or deer hair, extended body, etc. I have a little tourble with purportions but that’ll take time I guess. But most especially, when reversing the elk hair for the body it seems to break and make a rough tail on the body…which is not what I bought…and don’t want to, anymore! I’ve got the books but need some experience…..’hints & kinks’, etc. Thanks for everything you folks post….I appreciate you! Buff

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My first two guesses are: 1) You’re using TOO MUCH hair     try using less first 2) You’re using the wrong hair or old hair     if it’s from the wrong part of the elk or it’s old, it’ll break when you bend/fold it Larry #:)#

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My first two guesses are: 1) You’re using TOO MUCH hair    try using less first 2) You’re using the wrong hair or old hair    if it’s from the wrong part of the elk or it’s old, it’ll break when you bend/fold it Larry #:)#

I agree with Larry on #2.  Also might be the wrong thread.  If the thread is too small it will cut through the hair as well. Warren

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My first two guesses are: 1) You’re using TOO MUCH hair    try using less first 2) You’re using the wrong hair or old hair    if it’s from the wrong part of the elk or it’s old, it’ll break when you bend/fold it Larry #:)# I agree with Larry on #2.  Also might be the wrong thread.  If the thread is too small it will cut through the hair as well. Warren

_______  Warren?  Good point.  Larry Madina also has the perfect suggestion but he didn’t say what area on an Elk is best.  Let’s look at the Wapiti or deer family of different animals. 1) There are many different ways to tie Deer Hair style Caddis patterns.  Many. 2) The hair on herbivores (from the ground, up) on the legs or shins, it is thinnest and smallest in diameter.  Also around the face and/or mask area. 3) The largest diameter hair is around the belly.  The belly is the boiler room and contains a lot of blood and needs to be kept warm because it also is the area that has the largest surface area on herbivores that must survive in freezing outdoor temperatures.  This hair is also the thickest and has large, hollow hairs.  Air inside these belly hairs is a dramatic insulator against cold.  The hair also contains a lot of underdubbing/fur/matting/etc. that is a ‘blanket’ against wind.  It is what keeps wind from getting THRU the hair and against the skin/hide.  It is an interesting study in nature’s engineering. The hollowness of Elk hair, when you spin certain patterns such as muddler heads, when you bear down with the tying thread is what makes it explode or open up.  This ‘kinking’ is nothing more then a way to make the hair do what you want it to do.  Shin hairs do not flair out like the hollower hairs around the belly of elk and/or deer. The hair on the back of herbivores is also thin in diameter and not as thick.  Why?  I cannot but venture a guess.  Its not necessary because the body heat inside happens to keep the roof dry, sort of speaking. This is also a good area or source for selecting Elk hair. 4)  When one is in a fly shop, you have to know what you’re looking at with each package which has but a small piece of and entire Elk inside it.  You need to know what is leg hair, what is belly hair, what is neck hair, what is facial hair, what is back hair, what is flank hair, etc. And so it goes. Elk Hair patterns seldom use large diameter Elk Hair.  I usually use the back and most often leg hair.  The Caddis wing only needs to flair just a little.  It is not necessary to fold it back after tying it in at the head/forward.  These are not hollow hairs and when Ginked, its enough to float a caddis that has no hollow Elk or Deer Hair.  I tie a great many of my Caddis Patterns with Mule Deer because I happen to like the black and coloration of Mule Deer above all things regarding ‘Caddis’. However; Elk Hair comes in colors and shadings other then blonde.   So when fly tiers are talking HOW TO tie any pattern, the industry at large should start stating WHAT part of an Elk/Deer they are using. This is vital information but somehow, everyone seems to not think its important.  I, on the other hand think it is vital, if anyone is to tie a fly that has ‘the proper signature’ of that offered by its author. To Larry Madina, who I think is an above average fly tier, I hope you can agree that this information is proper regarding flies tied with the hairs from herbivores.  That being more specific is indeed, rather important. Hope this helps Warren the cause of tying really great Caddis Patterns. Lets face it. Throughout most trout rivers and streams, its really "The Caddis" that is king. We can discuss it more over at the camp site some evening.  Hours between 1700 PDT and 2000 EST.   Gink Keeps It Up — Mr. G.   http://www.gink.com/chat   "Flyfisherman’s Camp Fires Burning" Fly Fishing’s Talking Camp Site  

Question:

Okay, if I am posting to the wrong group – I sincerely am sorry – I just am not certain how this Deja thing works and I DO NOT want to intrude on discussion groups.  This group came up under my search for fishing marketplace and collectibles.  Antique fly reel in great shape.  Pflueger Medalist Fly Reel.  Ends on eBay Tues. 8/25.  Bids are at $20.50.  No Reserve.  This really is nice.  If you want to take a look here are the links.  Thanks!  eBay No. 26267477 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=26267477 — Arlykat on eBay

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How Refreshing!!!!! … an apologetic Spammer! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Okay, if I am posting to the wrong group – I sincerely am sorry – I just am not certain how this Deja thing works and I DO NOT want to intrude

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Question:

: On a related note, there was a mudslide in the Fraser Canyon today near : Lytton, BC. Wiped out the rail line, causing several tank cars of sulphur : to derail and catch fire. Have to see where this one goes Serious?  That will probably be nastier than the chlorine spill. Sheesh… it must be pretty nasty now… — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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: : On a related note, there was a mudslide in the Fraser Canyon today near : Lytton,BC. Wiped out the rail line, causing several tank cars of sulphur : : to derail and catch fire. A small community near the derailment was evacuated (and still is); three days after the derailment, all is not yet out. Will check the news

Wow, that’s nasty!  I’ll bet you can smell sulfur dioxide for miles around. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley           2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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: : On a related note, there was a mudslide in the Fraser Canyon today near : : Lytton, BC. Wiped out the rail line, causing several tank cars of sulphur : : to derail and catch fire. Have to see where this one goes : Serious?  That will probably be nastier than the chlorine spill. : Sheesh… it must be pretty nasty now… A small community near the derailment was evacuated (and still is); three days after the derailment, all is not yet out. Will check the news tonight to see if they have successfully removed what’s left of the bodies of the two crewman who were on the derailed cars at the time of the accident. — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (250) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (250) 368-9341

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Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Has there been any update on the possible environmental effects of last April’s train derailment outside Alberton, (which spilled tons of chlorine gas into the air, causing the evacuation of the entire town for a week)?

Hi Tom You are right. The chlorine did not get into the water but it did kill several acres of trees/brush. I drove through the day they reopened I-90. The spill area was right next to the highway. — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products http://www.btsflyfishing.com ($.12 hooks from Japan)

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: The chlorine would have presented some problems in an enclosed valley : (hence the evacuation) but all of the damage to flora and fauna would : have occurred in the first few minutes of exposure. After that, there : would be no impact (except, of course, for what died immediately). : Chlorine, while not something you want to encounter in high doses, occurs : quite abundantly in nature, and returns to its natural states (e.g. in : the form of chloride salts) quite quickly. Not in the atmosphere.  As I’m sure you’ve heard, it is chlorine (atoms, which will be created from chlorine molecules in sunlight) which is a big contributor to ozone depletion.  The "natural state" of chlorine is, well, chlorine, as it is commonly defined at STP. : As I recall, the spill occurred out of the water; most of the gas would : therefore have dispersed almost immediately into the air, not the river. : Even if the rupture had been underwater, any damage would have been : immediate (i.e. kills of fish, bugs in the immediate area). The stuff : would have been flushed almost immediately, leaving no long-term water : quality problems – certainly none involving health issues. I don’t think so.  Think about a swimming pool or hot tub.  The pH is checked after addition of a source chlorine… the water can become very acidic, which poses long term threat. Fish hate trace levels of chlorine and are also sensitive to pH.  (Try putting some trout in your swimming pool.) — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Has there been any update on the possible environmental effects of last April’s train derailment outside Alberton, (which spilled tons of chlorine gas into the air, causing the evacuation of the entire town for a week)?

The chlorine would have presented some problems in an enclosed valley (hence the evacuation) but all of the damage to flora and fauna would have occurred in the first few minutes of exposure. After that, there would be no impact (except, of course, for what died immediately). Chlorine, while not something you want to encounter in high doses, occurs quite abundantly in nature, and returns to its natural states (e.g. in the form of chloride salts) quite quickly. Are there any concerns about water quality problems in the Clark Fork as a result? What’s the buzz on this?

As I recall, the spill occurred out of the water; most of the gas would therefore have dispersed almost immediately into the air, not the river. Even if the rupture had been underwater, any damage would have been immediate (i.e. kills of fish, bugs in the immediate area). The stuff would have been flushed almost immediately, leaving no long-term water quality problems – certainly none involving health issues. 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (250) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (250) 368-9341

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Question:

we’ll be in the cleveland area (20 miles to the east) in mid-august. could anyone tell me about good flyfishing in this area at that time; especially are there any steelhead or salmon runs in progress, or any good surface fishing for small-mouth bass on tap? also my wife and i enjoy small creeks with wild trout. thanks for any input.                                             steve and adrienne,

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Question:

writes: `Planing a trip tp Baum Lake soon. Any recommendatins as to feel of the lake and suggestions recommended. Is float-yube a good idea for Baum?

Float tubes are fine, but Baum Lake is really more like a slow moving section of Hat Creek than a real lake and there is a current in it.  If you use a tube, use an anchor, and be prepared to walk back from the far end of the lake as it is easier to walk back than to kick your tube back up current.  A pram or better yet a canoe is a better choice if you have one.                                           Good fishing,                                                  Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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`Planing a trip tp Baum Lake soon. Any recommendatins as to feel of the lake and suggestions recommended. Is float-yube a good idea for Baum?

Yes, a float tube, pram or canoe are all good ideas for Baum. Take in some stream fishing in the area too.  But be careful fishing under the powerlines if you visit Hat Creek Powerhouse#2 riffle.  They have a magnetic effect that causes otherwise sane anglers to wade and cast within ten feet of each other. Mark Vinsel http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

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`Planing a trip tp Baum Lake soon. Any recommendatins as to feel of the lake and suggestions recommended. Is float-yube a good idea for Baum?

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I would say that a float tube venture is ok, but there is a good enough flow that it will make getting back a bit tuff. However, there is a trail on one side of the lake that you can return on. Personally, I use a canoe. Always play it safe! Johnny – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – `Planing a trip tp Baum Lake soon. Any recommendatins as to feel of the lake and suggestions recommended. Is float-yube a good idea for Baum?

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Question:

I’m going to have to buy some stocking foot chest waders soon. I fly fish mostly in rivers in the northeast (New York state, eastern Ontario, western Quebec), so the water temp isn’t a problem.  Any suggestions?  Do I need the 5mm ones, or would 3mm be heavy enough? How much should I expect to pay ($US) for waders and boots? Thanks – Tim

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writes: I bought some great ones from LL Bean, around $150 bucks.  I think they are the 5mm, which will also be more tear resistant than the thinner ones, and you never know when you might go someplace colder.

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writes: I bought some 5mm chest waders from Cabella’s for about $90 about 3 years ago.  I use them for all types of fishing, including rock picking abalone on the west coast near Petaluma where I live.  They have held up quite well for the stress my 240 lbs. put them thru.

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writes: I do a little steelhead fishing throughout the winter,  I have never felt that the insulated waders I wear were too warm…I suggest  the 5mm if you plan to join me this november steelheading.

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