Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » If they don't make one, they should…
If they don't make one, they should…
Question:
For Christmas one year, I got a large wooden "book like" router bit holder. and let me tell ya! It works great as a tackle holder, too!!! I sure got some funky looks for that one from my family……hopefully, I get another one this year! Mike
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I keep my hooks, jigheads, and other such terminal gear in a Plano plastic box. The one I am using now has lids on each side. It would be much better if it opened like a book, or, err, uh, a fly box. I saw such a thing a Home Depot by Dewalt, but it is not quite big enough. It is *very* nice though. And, it might just be big enough… — Citizen Fisherman
Response:
What does it look like??? — regards, RichG
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For Christmas one year, I got a large wooden "book like" router bit holder. and let me tell ya! It works great as a tackle holder, too!!! I sure got some funky looks for that one from my family……hopefully, I get another one this year! Mike I keep my hooks, jigheads, and other such terminal gear in a Plano plastic box. The one I am using now has lids on each side. It would be much better if it opened like a book, or, err, uh, a fly box. I saw such a thing a Home Depot by Dewalt, but it is not quite big enough. It is *very* nice though. And, it might just be big enough… — Citizen Fisherman
Response:
It’s a hinged wooden box with compartments in the inside that hold bits. They are just the right size to hold a med spinnerbait that has the two ends squeezed together, various worms, rapala, etc. good for when your shore fishing….even though I haven’t shore fished in years……. but, you can bring just the necessary stuff and that is it. Mike
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What does it look like??? — regards, RichG For Christmas one year, I got a large wooden "book like" router bit holder. and let me tell ya! It works great as a tackle holder, too!!! I sure got some funky looks for that one from my family……hopefully, I get another one this year! Mike I keep my hooks, jigheads, and other such terminal gear in a Plano plastic box. The one I am using now has lids on each side. It would be much better if it opened like a book, or, err, uh, a fly box. I saw such a thing a Home Depot by Dewalt, but it is not quite big enough. It is *very* nice though. And, it might just be big enough… — Citizen Fisherman
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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » curve cast…unintentional
curve cast…unintentional
Question:
[deleted] I need to just fish. Tim,…sometimes you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right…, Long
Indeed (than, should this be "fishing through foul weather can have profound affects on perception" ? ;o ) — Halfordian Golfer
Response:
< great advice snipped Thanks Mike, I am still very new to this,,,working on my 3rd year of excessiveness. Funny thing, today while fishing a larger river in the pouring rain, something just sorta clicked, and Man you should have seen the beautiful tight loops I was throwing, one after another. I think maybe it came to me to quit worrying about what my arm is doing and think more about throwing loops in the line. I think maybe I think too much sometimes…I need to just fish. Tim,…sometimes you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right…, Long
Ya, even on ROFF <g Most curves in the leader are caused by too much power. If the cast is overhead, it’ll tuck under. A sidearm cast produces a considerable sideways curve. A semi-sidearm cast with too much power by a right hander will produce a left curve. You’ll know for sure if you execute a perfect overhead cast and produce no curve. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html
Response:
< great advice snipped Thanks Mike, I am still very new to this,,,working on my 3rd year of excessiveness. Funny thing, today while fishing a larger river in the pouring rain, something just sorta clicked, and Man you should have seen the beautiful tight loops I was throwing, one after another. I think maybe it came to me to quit worrying about what my arm is doing and think more about throwing loops in the line. I think maybe I think too much sometimes…I need to just fish. Tim,…sometimes you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right…, Long
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When casting my leader often lays out with a distinct left curve to it…the leader usually turns over nicely butthe last couple of feet of leader seem to want to go to the left,,,never the right. Any suggestions on what to look for to correct this? Thanks, Tim Long straight behind. ALL curl casts are due to a side finish of the tip. It can be of great use Tim if your a natural at it. The question now is, can you do it the opposite direction? LOL! — #
Of course it is possible. A right handed caster would perform this feat by casting over his head and left shoulder. The beauty of a wooded stream is that all permutations of casting eccentricies are quite pertinent indeed. I myself adore the small streams with a small <7 footer. I really like the adaptable casting that these small water courses provide. However, there is a downside of such activities. One such aspect is the peculiarness of long lining (90 plus feet) over stillwaters. Several years ago, and with less sophisticated equipment, I was able to accomplish this task routinely. However, lately, I have been experiencing "technical hitches". After many summers of stream only angling, I fished this winter a couple of times, on a lake with a new 9 foot 6 weight and an old WF #6F. I hadn’t cast a fulll line for a long time, and had little difficulty doing so, except for the presentation, which to be frank, was awful. I was shocked to say the least. Anyway, I scrutinised as much as I could, but still slapped the water with a downward thump of the tip, or worse, a folded up leader. I reckoned too much forward power, for the down thump, like in if you were to cast with flyline only, no leader (that fishtail thump), yet in that trip was unable to solve the casting problem. I’ll have to do more practice and observations and hopefully I’ll sort this distressing problem out!
Response:
When casting my leader often lays out with a distinct left curve to it…the leader usually turns over nicely butthe last couple of feet of leader seem to want to go to the left,,,never the right. Any suggestions on what to look for to correct this? Thanks, Tim Long
It’s usually the "speed up and stop" portion of the cast that is the problem. If it’s not made straight ahead you’ll get a curve in your cast. –tony
Response:
I have learned to control it…and even used this to my advantage a time or two. I just can’t seem to use it to my advantage on a consistent basis. Tim, Lefty I ain’t, Long Tim, I have a tape of Lefty Kreh doing exactly that on purpose, useful for reaching around obstructions in the water (boulders, etc.) He does that at shows, too. Last year one of my sons was wearing a red jacket and Lefty put a (hookless) fly on his shoulder, after announcing he would of course<g. — Charlie…
Response:
I heard/read somewhere that years ago people were taught to cast with a book under their arm as a lesson to keep your arm in close to your body. Is this still relevent? As I pantomime my casting stroke I notice my forearm pointing away from my body,my upper arm staying pretty close to my body, much like throwing a baseball. I think maybe I have developed this out of need due to fishing in areas that have alot of cover. Does the curve come from the end of the casting stroke,,,I should be able to cast side arm and not have this curve,right? Tim
This is true, keeping your elbow and arm close to your body increases the power and accuracy of your stroke. There are many ways of casting, some are good and some are not so good. If you manage to get your fly where you want it to go, and you are happy with the results,
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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing Line » Kensico Resevoir–NYC Fly Fishing
Kensico Resevoir–NYC Fly Fishing
Question:
I live in Manhattan, and don’t have a car. I want to take the train to Kensico Resevoir. Does anyone know where I can fish this resevoir from the bank? Also, do you know other places I can fly Fish via public transportaion? Thanks, Randy Kadish
Response:
I live in Manhattan, and don’t have a car. I want to take the train to Kensico Resevoir. Does anyone know where I can fish this resevoir from the bank? Also, do you know other places I can fly Fish via public transportaion? Thanks, Randy Kadish
Randy – I have absolutely no idea, but I am very interested in seeing any replies – hope you get some. Public transportation to flyfishin – real dedication. What about packing up a float tube to take to the lake? Might be doable. mark Faulkner
Response:
Don’t know about public tranportation( probably railroad to neareat town and then taxi) However, I believe in addition to your license you’ll need a reservoir permit. They’re available from one of the NYC gov’t offices in Mahattan. You used to need some photos and it was free and good forever. May not be true now. If you can’t find the office(dept of water?) call urban Anler , Capitol tackle oe or Orvis, someone wil have the info They may even know a way to get there with public transit. gerry
Response:
I believe in addition to your license you’ll need a reservoir permit. They’re available from one of the NYC gov’t offices in Mahattan. You used to need some photos and it was free and good forever. May not be true now. gerry
It is not true now. NYC watershed permits no longer require a photo and are good for five years. As for public transportation to good fly fishing, it is definitely possible. I can think of two prime spots near train stations on Metro North’s Harlem line.
Response:
I can think of the same places along the Metro North Hudson line. Better get Jim Capposella’s book, "Good Fishing Within 50 Miles of New York City" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I live in Manhattan, and don’t have a car. I want to take the train to Kensico Resevoir. Does anyone know where I can fish this resevoir from the bank? Also, do you know other places I can fly Fish via public transportaion? Thanks, Randy Kadish
Response:
Kensico, like most of the Croton Watershed reservoirs, is not easily fishable from shore because of steep dropoffs. Also, belly boats and the like are forbidden. In fact, there are a number of restrictions, rules etc. for fishing this water because it’s owned by NYC. You will need a special watershed permit, as well. Having said that, why not consider the connecting streams? The West Branch of the Croton, the Amawalk and, especially, the East Branch of the Croton offer fine fishing easily accessible from Metro-North. The Croton TU chapter published a very fine guide to the area some years ago and some of the local shops still carry it.
Response:
If the Bedford Sportsman in Bedford, NY is still around , they may have those maps. gerry
Response:
Go talk to Edwin Valentin at the Urban Angler in NYC. Though not so often now, in the past he used to take the Metro North train all the time up to the East Branch of the Croton. He’d get let off in Brewster, then either hop a cab or walk to the stream.
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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing Flies » Fly Fishing For Dummies Author Chat
Fly Fishing For Dummies Author Chat
Question:
Hello, Chat with expert author Peter Kaminsky and learn the techniques you’ll need to know to land yourself a whopper! Whether you’re a novice or a veteran angler, "Fly Fishing For Dummies" offers sage advice for choosing the right kind of gear, finding out how and where to catch freshwater and saltwater fish, practicing the art of tying flies, and more. <http://www.dummies.com/community/chat/ Chat Channel: #dummies Chat Server: chat.talkcity.com Hope to see you there! Courtesy of the IDG Books Author Chat Series
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, Chat with expert author Peter Kaminsky and learn the techniques you’ll need to know to land yourself a whopper! Whether you’re a novice or a veteran angler, "Fly Fishing For Dummies" offers sage advice for choosing the right kind of gear, finding out how and where to catch freshwater and saltwater fish, practicing the art of tying flies, and more. <http://www.dummies.com/community/chat/ Chat Channel: #dummies Chat Server: chat.talkcity.com Hope to see you there! Courtesy of the IDG Books Author Chat Series
From the looks of many posts on this site, looks like you came to the right place. We make the insane ward look perfectly normal. Al Marlowe
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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fish » Dropper fly for smallies
Dropper fly for smallies
Question:
Anyone ever rigged a dropper for smallmouth? For example, a humpy with a shenk’s minnow on a dropper. Is this a dumb idea? What other combinations might you suggest?
Response:
Anyone ever rigged a dropper for smallmouth? For example, a humpy with a shenk’s minnow on a dropper. Is this a dumb idea? What other combinations might you suggest?
A combination of a #8 or #10 muddler, a #8 or #10 Wooly Bugger, and a sneaky little orange #10 or #12 Teeny Nymph dangling off the rear is always a reliable combo for lots of things, smallmouth included. Early spring with higher than normal water flows, use a short sinking tip or, do like I do and cheat with a small split shot a couple of feet ahead of the first fly. Let it drift more or less naturally. No need to strip it. The fish will find it. As the water runs off and clears up towards early summertime levels, go a size or two smaller on the flies and eliminate the extra weight. Best Regards, Trent Roberson Rx F Fish For Your Good Health, Fly Fish URL=http://www.xnet.com/~rxffish
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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Flyfishing » Trolling, Ethics, Yuppification, Warranties,Hatches, Smoking, and Black Flies….
Trolling, Ethics, Yuppification, Warranties,Hatches, Smoking, and Black Flies….
Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good Evening…. It’s been an interesting winter here on r.o.f.f., and I must say it’s been difficult to keep my mouth shut on a number of the more controversial issues…..but I wanted to actually think about my response(s) to a number of subjects before I spouted off…if you may be offended by a different opinion than yours….DELETE NOW Trolling And Ethics… Being one of those Streamer fishermen from Maine, who likes to troll along shore in my canoe, or along the edge of the retreating ice, I am perplexed by everyone getting uptight about defining this practice as flyfishing or not….FWIW…I look at it this way: There is "flyfishing", and there is "fishing with a fly". Neither is superior to the other….both require the angler to choose an immitation to best match the "natural", in this case the predominant forage fish. The gear used may be identical in both types of fishing (perhaps not), but the key difference is the method of presenting the fly. In my definition, "flyfishing" involves casting a fly/streamer, and also a retrieve. "Fishing with a fly" doesn’t normally meet these presentation criteria. As far as the ethics thing is concerned….I’ll simply say that just because you consider "flyfishing" superior to "fishing with a fly", doesn’t make it so. I participate in both activities without guilt
All to often nowadays…people seem to have adopted a "holier than thou art" attitude….call it human nature? Leave it at home when you come to Maine, Please. We let everyone fish here. Yuppification and Warrantees…. The sport of flyfishing has become a very fashionable thing to do nowadays….and if you don’t truly attain some sort of transcendental state whilst doing it….fake it. Taking up flyfishing also automatically qualifies you as an adventurer and outdoorsman/woman, though I prefer to think of the Yuppies as "Weekend Grizzly Adams’s"…It’s quite comical actually…until they realize there are no streetlights or phone booths to dial 911 in the backcountry. I once had a 9′ 5wt Double L Rod from LL Bean…it’s now 8′10.5"…I broke the tip….it was NOT a manufacturer’s defect….it was operator error….I will not return it. To those who have slammed rods in car doors, etc. and demanded they be replaced under warranty….Thanks a bunch….I appreciate paying $100 more per rod for your clumsiness, and lack of personal responsibility. Hatches…. Many folks really enjoy studying entimology, and learning every species, genus, and phylum….good for you! I hope you get enjoyment from that! Many of us are perfectly content with common names for insects, however…..Sulphurs, BWO’s, Red Quills….are the names I use, and I have flies to match them in size, shape, color, and sillouhette. It’s still flyfishing, and I catch plenty of fish. Smoking and Black Flies…. I’m planning to quit this summer….after the black fly season during spring fishing….don’t know what I’ll do next spring. I appreciate all of the non-smokers concern for those of us who do enjoy a smoke….we know you’re concerned….we know the health risks….but believe me…you accomplish nothing by repeating this information ad nauseum to us. Please refrain….I carry out all litter, and I’ll stand downwind from you. I promise. There…I feel much better now. Time to enter Lurk Mode again! Regards, R.A. Skehan
I feel better, too. Catch what you eat, eat what you catch, enjoy the trip. Pretty simple, really. Everything else is just details. If you want to just mess around with the fish, buy an aquarium. Donning my asbestos suit, Jim Wagner — Jim Wagner http://www.pagesz.net/~n4svz
Response:
Catch what you eat, eat what you catch, enjoy the trip. Pretty simple, really. Everything else is just details.
You mean, like the beer ? Now yours is a slogan I can live with. TimW
Response:
Excellent post. Right on the mark as I troll streamers as well as "flycast". Trolling streamers is a time honored tradition and a great way to relax and take in the surroundings. I have caught many nice Landlocks on Munsungan Lake this way. If we see fish working, then we reel in and cast to them. As far as yuppification, I agree but don’t see anything we can do about it other than make fun.
Response:
perhaps the best post I’ve read all week! Superior to the ralph H / Moe Skeeter diatibes Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Good Evening…. It’s been an interesting winter here on r.o.f.f., and I must say it’s been difficult to keep my mouth shut on a number of the more controversial issues…..but I wanted to actually think about my response(s) to a number of subjects before I spouted off…if you may be offended by a different opinion than yours….DELETE NOW Trolling And Ethics… Being one of those Streamer fishermen from Maine, who likes to troll along shore in my canoe, or along the edge of the retreating ice, I am perplexed by everyone getting uptight about defining this practice as flyfishing or not….FWIW…I look at it this way: There is "flyfishing", and there is "fishing with a fly". Neither is superior to the other….both require the angler to choose an immitation to best match the "natural", in this case the predominant forage fish. The gear used may be identical in both types of fishing (perhaps not), but the key difference is the method of presenting the fly. In my definition, "flyfishing" involves casting a fly/streamer, and also a retrieve. "Fishing with a fly" doesn’t normally meet these presentation criteria. As far as the ethics thing is concerned….I’ll simply say that just because you consider "flyfishing" superior to "fishing with a fly", doesn’t make it so. I participate in both activities without guilt
All to often nowadays…people seem to have adopted a "holier than thou art" attitude….call it human nature? Leave it at home when you come to Maine, Please. We let everyone fish here. Yuppification and Warrantees…. The sport of flyfishing has become a very fashionable thing to do nowadays….and if you don’t truly attain some sort of transcendental state whilst doing it….fake it. Taking up flyfishing also automatically qualifies you as an adventurer and outdoorsman/woman, though I prefer to think of the Yuppies as "Weekend Grizzly Adams’s"…It’s quite comical actually…until they realize there are no streetlights or phone booths to dial 911 in the backcountry. I once had a 9′ 5wt Double L Rod from LL Bean…it’s now 8′10.5"…I broke the tip….it was NOT a manufacturer’s defect….it was operator error….I will not return it. To those who have slammed rods in car doors, etc. and demanded they be replaced under warranty….Thanks a bunch….I appreciate paying $100 more per rod for your clumsiness, and lack of personal responsibility. Hatches…. Many folks really enjoy studying entimology, and learning every species, genus, and phylum….good for you! I hope you get enjoyment from that! Many of us are perfectly content with common names for insects, however…..Sulphurs, BWO’s, Red Quills….are the names I use, and I have flies to match them in size, shape, color, and sillouhette. It’s still flyfishing, and I catch plenty of fish. Smoking and Black Flies…. I’m planning to quit this summer….after the black fly season during spring fishing….don’t know what I’ll do next spring. I appreciate all of the non-smokers concern for those of us who do enjoy a smoke….we know you’re concerned….we know the health risks….but believe me…you accomplish nothing by repeating this information ad nauseum to us. Please refrain….I carry out all litter, and I’ll stand downwind from you. I promise. There…I feel much better now. Time to enter Lurk Mode again! Regards, R.A. Skehan
Response:
Good Evening…. It’s been an interesting winter here on r.o.f.f., and I must say it’s been difficult to keep my mouth shut on a number of the more controversial issues…..but I wanted to actually think about my response(s) to a number of subjects before I spouted off…if you may be offended by a different opinion than yours….DELETE NOW Trolling And Ethics… Being one of those Streamer fishermen from Maine, who likes to troll along shore in my canoe, or along the edge of the retreating ice, I am perplexed by everyone getting uptight about defining this practice as flyfishing or not….FWIW…I look at it this way: There is "flyfishing", and there is "fishing with a fly". Neither is superior to the other….both require the angler to choose an immitation to best match the "natural", in this case the predominant forage fish. The gear used may be identical in both types of fishing (perhaps not), but the key difference is the method of presenting the fly. In my definition, "flyfishing" involves casting a fly/streamer, and also a retrieve. "Fishing with a fly" doesn’t normally meet these presentation criteria. As far as the ethics thing is concerned….I’ll simply say that just because you consider "flyfishing" superior to "fishing with a fly", doesn’t make it so. I participate in both activities without guilt
All to often nowadays…people seem to have adopted a "holier than thou art" attitude….call it human nature? Leave it at home when you come to Maine, Please. We let everyone fish here. Yuppification and Warrantees…. The sport of flyfishing has become a very fashionable thing to do nowadays….and if you don’t truly attain some sort of transcendental state whilst doing it….fake it. Taking up flyfishing also automatically qualifies you as an adventurer and outdoorsman/woman, though I prefer to think of the Yuppies as "Weekend Grizzly Adams’s"…It’s quite comical actually…until they realize there are no streetlights or phone booths to dial 911 in the backcountry. I once had a 9′ 5wt Double L Rod from LL Bean…it’s now 8′10.5"…I broke the tip….it was NOT a manufacturer’s defect….it was operator error….I will not return it. To those who have slammed rods in car doors, etc. and demanded they be replaced under warranty….Thanks a bunch….I appreciate paying $100 more per rod for your clumsiness, and lack of personal responsibility. Hatches…. Many folks really enjoy studying entimology, and learning every species, genus, and phylum….good for you! I hope you get enjoyment from that! Many of us are perfectly content with common names for insects, however…..Sulphurs, BWO’s, Red Quills….are the names I use, and I have flies to match them in size, shape, color, and sillouhette. It’s still flyfishing, and I catch plenty of fish. Smoking and Black Flies…. I’m planning to quit this summer….after the black fly season during spring fishing….don’t know what I’ll do next spring. I appreciate all of the non-smokers concern for those of us who do enjoy a smoke….we know you’re concerned….we know the health risks….but believe me…you accomplish nothing by repeating this information ad nauseum to us. Please refrain….I carry out all litter, and I’ll stand downwind from you. I promise. There…I feel much better now. Time to enter Lurk Mode again! Regards, R.A. Skehan
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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Cuba-guides and water
Cuba-guides and water
Question:
I am considering a trip to fly fish in Cuba. If I go I will be near Camaguay and was wondering if anyone has fished near there. Mostly what I need is the names of guides and water to fish. Thanks Phil. Political responses unneeded. —
Response:
I am considering a trip to fly fish in Cuba. If I go I will be near Camaguay and was wondering if anyone has fished near there. Mostly what I need is the names of guides and water to fish. Thanks Phil. Political responses unneeded. —
I don’t know about water to fish but water to drink should be rain water ! — "The true Angler is content to fish alone" Brian Di Carlo
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am considering a trip to fly fish in Cuba. If I go I will be near Camaguay and was wondering if anyone has fished near there. Mostly what I need is the names of guides and water to fish. Thanks Phil. Political responses unneeded. — I don’t know about water to fish but water to drink should be rain water ! — "The true Angler is content to fish alone" Brian Di Carlo
Panangling Travel servise has a Cuban destination for fly fishing for bones, tarpon, permit, snook, etc. They have a web page. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY
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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Madison River near Ennis Lake
Madison River near Ennis Lake
Question:
I’ll be in Montana the first full week of August. How is the Madison around Ennis Lake fishing? What should I tie?
Response:
I’ll be in Montana the first full week of August. How is the Madison around Ennis Lake fishing? What should I tie?
Hi Davis Family The Madison has been fishing great! Hoppers (#8) and caddis (EHC #12 – #20 light and dark) are the name of the game and will continue on into August. Besure to have plenty Bead Head Nymphs, Serendipities (spelling?), attractors (Humpies & Wulffs #12 – #18),etc. Have a good trip. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)
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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Flyfishing » Alaska flyfishing near Denali
Alaska flyfishing near Denali
Question:
Will be at Denali Park entrance area in mid August, any dry fly creeks wadeable within walking or hitching distance that are not loaded with Glacier flour?
Response:
Will be at Denali Park entrance area in mid August, any dry fly creeks wadeable within walking or hitching distance that are not loaded with Glacier flour?
The clearwater side streams have small grayling but you might find them, (the streams,) hard to reach. I’d take some wet patterns with me too. One high percentage shot is floating mouse or shrew patterns on the local lakes for pike. Almost any lake you see in that country holds northern pike. I’d recommend wire leaders. R. Wood in Alaska
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Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » http://www.accelerated.com (fly fishing home page)
http://www.accelerated.com (fly fishing home page)
Question:
check out the fly fishing page at this site. The fly fishing info changes on a monthly basis. http://www.accelerated.com ::::::::::::::::::::<<< INTERNETWORKING THE DESKTOP :::::::::::::::::::: John Loschky SPRY, Inc. Phone: (206) 442-8225 316 Occidental Avenue South FAX: (206) 447-9008 Seattle, WA 98104 http://www.spry.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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check out the fly fishing page at this site. The fly fishing info changes on a monthly basis. http://www.accelerated.com
One word: Weak <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp. Alpha Server Engineering < < "Read this and nobody gets hurt" < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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