Question:

.. how hard is it to get a hook up in the national forest  ( my cousines father is 80 and in poor health) i dont want to run a generator and make a lot of noise

  None of the NF campgrounds have power, period. — Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read RV and Camping FAQ can be found at http://kendaco.telebyte.com/rlindber/RV

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Im going to go fly fishing in gallatin nat forest can anyone help with any first hand knowledge will be takeing a 30 foot class A   is a dingy necessary ? how hard is it to get a hook up ( my cousines father is 80 and in poor health) i dont want to run a generator and make a lot of noise thank you glenn   please send email to

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Im going to go fly fishing in gallatin nat forest (july3 to 16 aprox) can anyone help with any first hand knowledge will be takeing a 30 foot class A   is a dingy necessary ? how hard is it to get a hook up in the national forest  ( my cousines father is 80 and in poor health) i dont want to run a generator and make a lot of noise thank you glenn   please send email to

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Im going to go fly fishing in gallatin nat forest can anyone help with any first hand knowledge will be takeing a 30 foot class A   is a dingy necessary ? how hard is it to get a hook up ( my cousines father is 80 and in poor health) i dont want to run a generator and make a lot of noise

there who is familiar with the area. Just click on the URL above, it’ll take you there directly without having to "subscribe" to the newsgroup.

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Im going to go fly fishing in gallatin nat forest

  When? (I’d ask why, since I wouldn’t bother any more) can anyone help with any first hand knowledge

  Yes will be takeing a 30 foot class A   is a dingy necessary ?

  Where are you planning to stay? how hard is it to get a hook up ( my cousines father is 80 and in poor health) i dont want to run a generator and make a lot of noise

  The only place I am recalling with power is the KOA at Bozeman Hotsprings (which also gives you access to the springs pools) —

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Question:

I was looking at those before everyone suggested that stocking foot was the way to go.. Any second thoughts from you guys?

Only one. For the coldest conditions (winter tailwater fishing, goose hunting in a blizzard, etc.) you can’t beat the warmth of a pair of 5 mm neoprene bootfoot waders. But for anything else, I’d go with a pair of stocking foot waders with a good pair of wading boots. How cold is it where/when you plan to use them? — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

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Lou, Like somebody else mentioned, it all depends on where you plan to fish. As for myself, fishing on freestone creeks and doing a good bit of walking, I am a big fan of stockingfoot waders and good wading boots. Reducing the risk of a sprained ankle far outweighs the extra five minutes or so it takes to put them on. Bob

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greg I was looking at those before everyone suggested that stocking foot was the way to go.. Any second thoughts from you guys? Lou FWIW: Cabelas has a lace up bootfoot model this year too.   I see that they’re a heck of a lot cheaper,  and the boots (from the small photo) look  like they might provide better ankle support.

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Wayne & Others Wet wading, even in late summer is not much of a option here in Michigan’s Western UP. The streams and rivers run cold. The trout seem to like it but a guy can freeze his ass off in these waters…..

Granted, it may not be for everyone, but I’ve often waded wet in the various branches of the Ontonagon, Cook’s Run, Big and Little Carps, the Paint, the Fence, both Brules, the Firesteel, several of the Irons, the Sturgeon, and a host of others in the western UP. You get used to it after a while.     Wolfgang numb nu…….well, never mind.

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Wolfgang You R tougher than me.   I’ve tried fishing the SalmonTrout river in nylon windpants and  rubber sandals. Goddddd that water is cold. I need waders! BTW,,you were less than an hour from my home so if you wander this way again send me a E mail first. If you do I’ll buy you a beer and maybe we could consider fishing together. Lou

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wayne & Others Wet wading, even in late summer is not much of a option here in Michigan’s Western UP. The streams and rivers run cold. The trout seem to like it but a guy can freeze his ass off in these waters….. Granted, it may not be for everyone, but I’ve often waded wet in the various branches of the Ontonagon, Cook’s Run, Big and Little Carps, the Paint, the Fence, both Brules, the Firesteel, several of the Irons, the Sturgeon, and a host of others in the western UP. You get used to it after a while.     Wolfgang numb nu…….well, never mind.

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Greg Over the past year I often loaded  Cabelas Dry Plus bought waders, a chest pack, change of cloths, and some pop into a mid size pack. I’d catty a old wicker creel over one shoulder and carry my rod in a case. I don’t think the whole thing weighted 30 pounds and was no big deal to hike in with. I want to thank everyone here for their advice but I noticed that Cabelas had my old Dry Plus Breathable bought on sale for $100. I probably went fishing 100 + times last year and sure got my money’s worth and liked my old waders. I guess habit/ low price over comes good sense so I bought another pair today.. Lou

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was looking at those before everyone suggested that stocking foot was the way to go.. Any second thoughts from you guys?  I spend at least half of my fishing time in water  under 50 degrees or on beaches.   The laced  bootfoots have worked out quite well for that.  They are also easier to deal with: one piece  instead of the 3-5 (counting guards) that I would  be sure to forget one or more of.  The max distance that I have hiked in one day  is probably no more than 4-5 miles.  If I were  going to do some serious off-road hiking to get  to fishing water, I’m pretty sure that I would opt  to carry the waders in, since it would be inevitable  that I would destroy them otherwise (but first I  would have to have some serious work done on  one knee…).  The one disadvantage I  have in using bootfoots is  that I can’t switch between felt and studded soles.  So I used corkers for a while, which I couldn’t stand.  More recently I bought a pair of what looks like old-  fashioned galoshes with studs and a drawstring that  I slip on over the bootfeet (I think that Dan Bailey  distributes them).   They’re much more comfortable  and easy to slog through water in than corkers, but  I don’t believe that they work as well – too much metal  on the bottom so weight isn’t concentrated as well –  and the metal is quite soft, so it is abrading rather  quickly.  I’m pretty sure that I am going to buy another pair  of laced bootfoot waders soon and outfit one pair  with studs.

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HIYA guys I’ve always used bootfoot waders but I wonder if I’d be better off with stockingfoot. What do you folks use and why? Lou

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HIYA guys I’ve always used bootfoot waders but I wonder if I’d be better off with stockingfoot. What do you folks use and why?

Stockingfoot allows you to wear a custom boot that has the best fit (including laces), and also to change boots.

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HIYA guys I’ve always used bootfoot waders but I wonder if I’d be better off with stockingfoot. What do you folks use and why? Lou

Stocking foot are best all around for convenience and comfort.Boot foot are best for cold water winter fishing and for fishing the beach.Why choose, it’s best to have both. Regards,  Flypaint(Shawn)

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Hi Lou, I have sold/fitted waders to anglers and hunters for 37 years now, but we specialize in waders for fly fishers now. Today in California we sell 100% stocking foot chest high breathable waders for fly fishing. A few years ago we sold only stocking foot neoprene waders and light weight non-breathable stocking foot waders. Boot foot waders are faster and easier to put on, but you don’t get the ankle support that you get with a lace up boot on a stocking foot wader  for walking long distances in trout streams. Also, it is hard to really fit people well with boot foot waders because you need to get the chest/body size right first, then the right inseam length and then the right boot size. We use to sell neoprene boot foot waders a little, but had them "custom" fitted. If you could order boot foot waders with your body size, inseam length and then a good boot fit, they are great for those fast situation where you don’ walk a lot. The story on hip boots is that everyone I know that has fished with me over the years has gone in over the top during a day of fly fishing in Northern California. It is either chest high stocking foot breathable waders or wade wet in northern California in the summer. We sell a few waist high waders a year now but with the onset of breathables it is not as necessary as it was with non-breathables. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HIYA guys I’ve always used bootfoot waders but I wonder if I’d be better off with stockingfoot. What do you folks use and why? Lou

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HIYA guys I’ve always used bootfoot waders but I wonder if I’d be better off with stockingfoot. What do you folks use and why? Lou

        stockingfoot.  because we wade wet down here after mid april, and thus need protection from the ankle up very infrequently.  if you ever hiked up to the middle falls on snowbird in late july, in even "breathable" chest high waders, you’d fully understand. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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HIYA guys I’ve always used bootfoot waders but I wonder if I’d be better off with stockingfoot. What do you folks use and why? Lou stockingfoot.  because we wade wet down here after mid april, and thus need protection from the ankle up very infrequently.  if you ever hiked up to the middle falls on snowbird in late july, in even "breathable" chest high waders, you’d fully understand.

Quick word of caution…walking in shorts through briars and scrub that scratch the legs…then standing in biota rich pond water is a recipe for some interesting rash and infection…the notion of keeping alcohol pads back at the truck is a good one. — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

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Guys Thanks to all of you who offered advice. I trust  the wisdom of this NG and will invest in some stocking foot waders and boots. BTW..I live in the Michigan’s Upper Peninsula, my old 5mm cold weather/ ice in the  river  waders are still in good shape but my summer ones are shot. I very often pack in my gear including waders on my back and them get organized streamside. Thanks again.. Lou

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HIYA guys I’ve always used bootfoot waders but I wonder if I’d be better off with stockingfoot. What do you folks use and why? Lou stockingfoot.  because we wade wet down here after mid april, and thus need protection from the ankle up very infrequently.  if you ever hiked up to the middle falls on snowbird in late july, in even "breathable" chest high waders, you’d fully understand. Quick word of caution…walking in shorts through briars and scrub that scratch the legs…then standing in biota rich pond water is a recipe for some interesting rash and infection…the notion of keeping alcohol pads back at the truck is a good one. — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

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Quick word of caution…walking in shorts through briars and scrub that scratch the legs…then standing in biota rich pond water is a recipe for some interesting rash and infection…the notion of keeping alcohol pads back at the truck is a good one. — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

Taking a bottle of alcohol along to the stream has proved more popular it seems. TL MC

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Quick word of caution…walking in shorts through briars and scrub that scratch the legs…then standing in biota rich pond water is a recipe for some interesting rash and infection…the notion of keeping alcohol pads back at the truck is a good one. — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer Taking a bottle of alcohol along to the stream has proved more popular it seems.

I was refering to the ‘optional’ variety. — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

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FWIW: Cabelas has a lace up bootfoot model this year too.

I was looking at those before everyone suggested that stocking foot was the way to go.. Any second thoughts from you guys?

I don’t have a second thought – I still prefer stocking foot.  For all the reasons previously mentioned, plus the EEEE show size I need<g. –Stan

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For what it is worth, the latest cabela’s catalog has laceup boot foots as well. Chris Richer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wet wading, even in late summer is not much of a option here in Michigan’s Western UP. The streams and rivers run cold.  Same in western NY and Ontario. The trout seem to like it but a guy can freeze his ass off in these waters. Going to take all the good advice and set up with stocking foot + boots.  Before you do you might want to take a quick look  at Orvis’s breathables with lace-up boot foots.

– Chris Richer chrisratnostormspamdotca

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Greg I was looking at those before everyone suggested that stocking foot was the way to go.. Any second thoughts from you guys? Lou

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – FWIW: Cabelas has a lace up bootfoot model this year too.   I see that they’re a heck of a lot cheaper,  and the boots (from the small photo) look  like they might provide better ankle support.

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Why Lou!  That’s for your annual bonefish trip to the Keys! Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wayne & Others Wet wading, even in late summer is not much of a option here in Michigan’s Western UP. The streams and rivers run cold. The trout seem to like it but a guy can freeze his ass off in these waters. Going to take all the good advice and set up with stocking foot + boots. Lou

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 Before you do you might want to take a quick look  at Orvis’s breathables with lace-up boot foots.

FWIW: Cabelas has a lace up bootfoot model this year too.

Response:

Wayne & Others Wet wading, even in late summer is not much of a option here in Michigan’s Western UP. The streams and rivers run cold. The trout seem to like it but a guy can freeze his ass off in these waters. Going to take all the good advice and set up with stocking foot + boots. Lou

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For may of the reasons already stated, go stocking foot.  Besides being able to change boot types and properly fit the boot, you can wet wade sans waders with a good boot in hot climes; maximum versatility.  As Bill recommended; go with breathables. Considere neoprene socks when wet wading with boots and keep in mind, some boots like Chota Brookies have removable insoles for use with and without waders. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine! HIYA guys I’ve always used bootfoot waders but I wonder if I’d be better off with stockingfoot. What do you folks use and why? Lou

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… they are composed of poly-cotton with layers of codura on the knees and ass.  that’s because if you aren’t on the former when you fish, you aint gonna catch any of the latter, in hazel creek.

I fished all day on Hazel Creek, was on my knees most of the time and I STILL didn’t catch any ass. Need another lesson from the master, I guess. — Ken Fortenberry

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For may of the reasons already stated, go stocking foot.  Besides being able to change boot types and properly fit the boot, you can wet wade sans waders with a good boot in hot climes; maximum versatility.  As Bill recommended; go with breathables. Considere neoprene socks when wet wading with boots and keep in mind, some boots like Chota Brookies have removable insoles for use with and without waders. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HIYA guys I’ve always used bootfoot waders but I wonder if I’d be better off with stockingfoot. What do you folks use and why? Lou

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No reason you can’t use quick-dry long pants.  They even make ones that have zip-off bottoms (i.e. convertible to shorts.)

        actually, my "fishing pants" are what were originally designed as warm weather bird hunting pants:  they are composed of poly-cotton with layers of codura on the knees and ass.  that’s because if you aren’t on the former when you fish, you aint gonna catch any of the latter, in hazel creek.         what the hell, it’s after 6, and it’s been a long day. wayno

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Quick word of caution…walking in shorts through briars and scrub that scratch the legs…then standing in biota rich pond water is a recipe for some interesting rash and infection…the notion of keeping alcohol pads back at the truck is a good one.

No reason you can’t use quick-dry long pants.  They even make ones that have zip-off bottoms (i.e. convertible to shorts.)

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stockingfoot.  because we wade wet down here after mid april, and thus need protection from the ankle up very infrequently.  if you ever hiked up to the middle falls on snowbird in late july, in even "breathable" chest high waders, you’d fully understand.

Good point.  I have used my wading boots without waders on quite a few occasions.

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Question:

minutes explaining my business in Canada (work trip to my company’s YWG facility; the word "work" must have triggered the big red alarm).

Yep. That is a big no-no, especially when a canadian self employed goes to the USA. "Going to a meeting" is a much more acceptable reason for travel.

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Canada) through Chicago.  Air Canada services us from all other major cities in Canada, Except the second largest one… but that’s AC’s fault, not yours. Air Canada does link Winterpeg with Vancouver with at least one non-stop per day.

But to come back to the question, AC lists two connections/day SFO-YWG. Morning one thru YVR indeed, and afternoon one thru YYC.  Thru YYC is shorter; and there are four nonstop flights to YWG.

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fishing, one of the greatest areas in the world for lake fishing is about a two hour drive east of Winnipeg, just over the border into Ontario. No ! Don’t risk your life on highway 17. Stay in Manitoba. just before the ontario border where the trans canada highway narrows into a country road, there is a nice park to the right. I think it it is on the shores of lake of the woods.

I don’t think they will be riding bicycles.   Besides, 30 miles on a two lane highway is no impediment to people who really like fishing.

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Yes, its bloody cold outside. You get used to it.  It’s nice in the summer though, for those 4 months. 4 months ?  I guess if you define winter as temperatures below -20, spring and automn as temperatures below 0, then summer could be 4 months long …. In Montreal, true summer is about 4 weeks (when you can go outside in short sleeves and not have to worry about being cold during the day).

Yes, I remember my one and only (so far) trip to Canada which was spent entirely in Qu

Question:

Sounds like you finally made enough to bribe the Sheriff. Unka Bob

I’ll tell you one thing Unka.  I’d kill to fly that damn RV-3 of yours.  I have the "Hold Not Responsible/Release of Liability" document signed and notarized in my grubby little paw right now. Grandpa says it’s good (you know, Boom Boom’s dad…my main lawyer). Vito Lanuti (Boom Boom’s brother…my second in command lawyer) liked it too.  Didn’t change one word.  It says if I wreck it, my estate is to pay you your purchase price for it (plus your expenses for travel to pick it up and your time) and take possession of the wreckage.  So, you get paid off in cash if I crash it. I intended to go to Arlington and will be very unhappy on Friday that I’m not there….BUT, I’m going fishing in Utah on Friday , so I will have some fun. BWB

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The intrepid members of the Noon Patrol arrived at Arlington at 11:00 AM on Wednesday and by Noon had set up the Nieuport 11 fuselage with VW engine for display.  (Note to DS:  We used losts of Dcut tape).  We put a brief summary of our project and a couple dozen 8×10 photos on a bulletin board.  Then we sat in the shade under our official Noon Patrol awning and had cold drinks while we watched the crowd. By 5:00 PM today we had had several hundred visitors with comments and questions.  The comments ranged from "I wish I lived in Independence, OR" to "You guys are nuts."  The questions were usually "Do you guys know that lunatic that writes about the Dawn Patrol in Kitplanes?"  We always answered that "Dick Starks is to blame for everything."   – John Ousterhout, Mike Pongracz, Ernie Moreno, Dave Ruddiman, and Clay Kesterson –   – The Noon Patrol, EAA Chapter 292, Independence, OR   – http://www.teleport.com/~medlock/ Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

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The Noon Patrol display at Arlington was a great success. Interest was very high as thousands — even a few of the rah ilk — took a close look at our fuselage and engine.  It should be very exciting next year when we fly 14 Nieuports to Arlington.   http://www.teleport.com/~medlock/noon_patrol/jul_00/before.jpg   http://www.teleport.com/~medlock/noon_patrol/jul_00/after.jpg http://www.teleport.com/~medlock/noon_patrol/jul_00/mike_and_john jpg We believe that we qualified for the dead grass award. We met a few other Niuport builders too.  Everyone wanted to know if Dick Starks is really as crazy as he seems in Kitplanes.  We told them that he’s far crazier than that.  After all, Dick’s our inspiration.  - John Ousterhout –   The Noon Patrol – 14 Nieuport 11’s under construction   EAA Chapter 292, Indepencence, OR   http://www.teleport.com/~medlock/ Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

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The Noon Patrol will have a Nieuport 11 fuselage with VW engine on display at the EAA Arlington, WA Fly-In on the 6th, 7th and 8th. The Noon Patrol are 13 EAA Chapter 292 members who are building 14 Nieuport 11 replicas in the Independence Airplane Factory – formerly the EAA Chapter 292 hangar.  These are the 7/8 scale planes designed by Graham Lee and made famous by the antics reported in Kitplanes Magazine by Dick Starks and the Kansas City Dawn Patrol. At present the group owns all the airplanes.  When ready for paint, members will draw lots for the aircraft.  One plane will be sold at auction to raise money for EAA Chapter 292. Come by and take a look at our work so far and meet some of the maniacs who are building 14 Niuuports 11’s.  Feel free to insult us.  We know we’re crazy, but this is so much fun that we’re not sure that it’s legal. Not a week goes by that my Spousal Unit doesn’t say "Damn that Dick Starks!"   – John Ousterhout –   EAA Chapter 292   Independence, OR   http://www.teleport.com/~medlock/ Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

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Oyterhouse.  Don’t get too comfy thinking about that bed upstairs at Ant Eater’s.  I may decide to fly the RV up there on Thursday just to screw with you all.  I had some good luck this week and made a dollar three forty…so I can afford to come.  It’s now a matter of the time. BWb

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John H Ousterhout announced: The Noon Patrol will have a Nieuport 11 fuselage with VW engine on display at the EAA Arlington, WA Fly-In on the 6th, 7th and 8th.

Wish I could get there. However, at the moment I’m even more interested in the Independence Flyer.  As of a week or so ago, it had been nearly six months since the project report on the Web site had been updated.  Any idea what’s been going on with it? Oh, and what are they going to do with the Gypsy?  There was some talk about selling it off.  (Not that it will do me any good way out here in New Hampshire.) Many thanks. Owen Davies

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The chapter 292 Webmaster is a lazy toad.  Someone needs to kick his ass and get him to update the web page section about the Independence Flyer. The Independence Flyer project was badly hurt when several members defected to the Nieuport 11 project.  However the Ultralight project contines, although at a slower pace. Our half-VW engine is running well on a stand.  The fuselage is complete and on the gear.  Tail feathers are complete as well. Wing construction is to start soon. Many of us do not want to sell the Gypsy,  We may hang it from the ceiling of our chapter hangar as a static display.  Others believe that it should be flying and are willing to sell it to a good home.  It is awfully cute.   – John Ousterhout –   EAA Chapter 292 Webmaster – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John H Ousterhout announced: The Noon Patrol will have a Nieuport 11 fuselage with VW engine on display at the EAA Arlington, WA Fly-In on the 6th, 7th and 8th. Wish I could get there. However, at the moment I’m even more interested in the Independence Flyer.  As of a week or so ago, it had been nearly six months since the project report on the Web site had been updated.  Any idea what’s been going on with it? Oh, and what are they going to do with the Gypsy?  There was some talk about selling it off.  (Not that it will do me any good way out here in New Hampshire.) Many thanks. Owen Davies

Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

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I’m going to be there first to claim the bed.  You can sleep on the floor in the garage. If you do show up do you think anyone will give you a ride from Arlington to Ampmeters house? I’m sure your good buddy Zoom will be thrilled if you show up. He may be the only one that is. – John Ousterhout – P.S.  It was you my wife mentioned by name when she brought home the case of Arrogant Bastard Ale! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oyterhouse.  Don’t get too comfy thinking about that bed upstairs at Ant Eater’s.  I may decide to fly the RV up there on Thursday just to screw with you all.  I had some good luck this week and made a dollar three forty…so I can afford to come.  It’s now a matter of the time. BWb

Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Oyterhouse.  Don’t get too comfy thinking about that bed upstairs at Ant Eater’s.  I may decide to fly the RV up there on Thursday just to screw with you all.  I had some good luck this week and made a dollar three forty…so I can afford to come.  It’s now a matter of the time. BWb

Sounds like you finally made enough to bribe the Sheriff. Unka Bob

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Sounds like you finally made enough to bribe the Sheriff. Unka Bob

It’s not bribery, it’s soft money political campaign contributions. Tom " election year" Cooper

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Among other interesting comments, John H Ousterhout noted: Many of us do not want to sell the Gypsy,  We may hang it from the ceiling of our chapter hangar as a static display.  Others believe that it should be flying and are willing to sell it to a good home.  It is awfully cute.

I’d be sorely tempted to buy it (at a good enough price, of course) if it didn’t mean crossing the country at something slower than the average wind velocity.  It is awfully cute.  Those comments about what a nice flyer it is piqued my curiosity, too. Thanks for the info. Owen Davies

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    hehehe,,,,,,                                     Scrappman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t think there’s any room left in the tub: http://www.cyberis.net/~jouster/gallery/hi_bill.jpg – J.O.- P.S. Have you learned to fly straight yet?    What about the hot tub party on Sat. night? Keeping that one to your self, John?                                        Scrappman Arlington Washington — The Northwest EAA Fly-In and Airshow – Wed. July 11 through Sun. July 15. The Noon Patrol will exhibit a Nieuport 11 aircraft that is almost complete — at the "90% complete and 90% remaining" stage. Members of the Noon Patrol will speak about the team process of building aircraft in the Main forum tent at Noon on Saturday. Stop by our exhibit and say hi.  I hope to see you all at the rah barbecue on Friday.   John Ousterhout   The Noon Patrol – 14 Nieuport 11 replicas under construction   EAA Chapter 292, Independence, OR   http://www.fly.to/eaa292

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Arlington Washington — The Northwest EAA Fly-In and Airshow – Wed. July 11 through Sun. July 15. The Noon Patrol will exhibit a Nieuport 11 aircraft that is almost complete — at the "90% complete and 90% remaining" stage. Members of the Noon Patrol will speak about the team process of building aircraft in the Main forum tent at Noon on Saturday. Stop by our exhibit and say hi.  I hope to see you all at the rah barbecue on Friday.   John Ousterhout   The Noon Patrol – 14 Nieuport 11 replicas under construction   EAA Chapter 292, Independence, OR   http://www.fly.to/eaa292

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    What about the hot tub party on Sat. night? Keeping that one to your self, John?                                         Scrappman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Arlington Washington — The Northwest EAA Fly-In and Airshow – Wed. July 11 through Sun. July 15. The Noon Patrol will exhibit a Nieuport 11 aircraft that is almost complete — at the "90% complete and 90% remaining" stage. Members of the Noon Patrol will speak about the team process of building aircraft in the Main forum tent at Noon on Saturday. Stop by our exhibit and say hi.  I hope to see you all at the rah barbecue on Friday.   John Ousterhout   The Noon Patrol – 14 Nieuport 11 replicas under construction   EAA Chapter 292, Independence, OR   http://www.fly.to/eaa292

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I don’t think there’s any room left in the tub: http://www.cyberis.net/~jouster/gallery/hi_bill.jpg – J.O.- P.S. Have you learned to fly straight yet? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    What about the hot tub party on Sat. night? Keeping that one to your self, John?                                        Scrappman Arlington Washington — The Northwest EAA Fly-In and Airshow – Wed. July 11 through Sun. July 15. The Noon Patrol will exhibit a Nieuport 11 aircraft that is almost complete — at the "90% complete and 90% remaining" stage. Members of the Noon Patrol will speak about the team process of building aircraft in the Main forum tent at Noon on Saturday. Stop by our exhibit and say hi.  I hope to see you all at the rah barbecue on Friday.   John Ousterhout   The Noon Patrol – 14 Nieuport 11 replicas under construction   EAA Chapter 292, Independence, OR   http://www.fly.to/eaa292

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Question:

return more hits on "scotch" than on "steelhead".   (I might actually try that.)

Joe please do not ever see how many hits you get about bluegill. Most respectfuly requested. Big Dale

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Dejanews is a service which stores and indexes most if not all all usenet posts. Incredible, come to think of it. If you ever goof up in here, it won’t be forgotten.. Altavista has a Usenet search enigine too, I haven’t really compared it with the Deja service yet. Herman, having one or two unpleasant memories in the archives.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where is deja.news and how do you access it? I’d be willing to bet that a deja news search of ROFF will return more hits on "scotch" than on "steelhead".   (I might actually try that.) I was wrong.   (There’s something you won’t hear often here, Brian.) "Steelhead" appeared in 1,095 posts in the last 12 months; while I had to allow "malt" as well as "scotch" to bring that total up to a creditable, if distant, 495.   (It’s luchtime and I had a few minutes, okay?) Joe F.

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

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Hello all, I am new to this group.  I just found it the other day, and I have been very impressed by the courtesy and information found here (unlike a lot of Usenet). I have recently moved to Vancouver WA (just across the Columbia from Portland) from Wisconsin to follow my wife (good idea). Over the past several years, my father-in-law has made sure that I got out here to fish the Deschuttes with him.  Until I walked in that water, I had not know true trout.  We would put in at Trout Creek and take out 4 days later at Harpham Flats.  Normally we went during the salmon fly hatch (it is quite a thing having a "Redsides" take such a big bug). Needless to say, now that we have moved here, we have done a lot more fishing and my wife has wished a pox on the two of us for how much we are spending! To the point – On Sept. 24th, I am returning the favor and taking her father on the Deschuttes for a 4 day Steelhead trip.  I have never fished for them before, and I am very excited.  Any advice you all have would be greatly appreciated.  I already made the mistake (sort of – I got some great gear) of going to Kaufman’s and saying "I am going Steelhead fishing…what do I need?"  $1200 later I was out the door and ready for action (since I don’t drink I have to spend the money somewhere). Anyway, now that I have spewed all over this message, I would like to thank in advance for your help, and advice. Brian Blazer http://www.blazertechnologies.com

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I am new to this group.  I just found it the other day, and I have been very impressed by the courtesy and information found here  <snip

Damn, are we doing that again? Welcome aboard, although we’re going to have to work on that not drinking thing.   I’d be willing to bet that a deja news search of ROFF will return more hits on "scotch" than on "steelhead".   (I might actually try that.) Seriously though, welcome.   Thicken your skin and jump in.   It ain’t always that cordial; but it’s always fun. Joe F.

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Where is deja.news and how do you access it?

Deja News is at www.deja.com; but it’s easier to get specific answers if you use their "power search" at  www.deja.com/home_ps.shtml. Joe F.

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Why do you persist in omitting "meniscus"?   Besides, I said a few minutes, not a few days.  :-)

meniscus?  What means?

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Why do you persist in omitting "meniscus"?   Besides, I said a few minutes, not a few days.  :-) meniscus?  What means?

You know, that interface between the beer and the foam.   Recently mentioned in a remarkable 110 posts. Joe F.

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meniscus?  What means? You know, that interface between the beer and the foam.   Recently mentioned in a remarkable 110 posts.

Mmmmmmm, BEER!  Now you’re speaking my language.  110 posts, really?  Wow, makes me feel like an influential guy.  Anybody care to define fly?

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Mmmmmmm, BEER!  Now you’re speaking my language.  110 posts, really?  Wow, makes me feel like an influential guy.  Anybody care to define fly?

Sure.   It’s what men think with.  :-) Joe F.

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To the point – On Sept. 24th, I am returning the favor and taking her father on the Deschuttes for a 4 day Steelhead trip.  I have never fished for them before, and I am very excited.  Any advice you all have would be greatly appreciated. Anyway, now that I have spewed all over this message, I would like to thank in advance for your help, and advice. Brian Blazer http://www.blazertechnologies.com

Brian, The Deschutes is spelled like what I wrote.   It sounds like the folks at Kaffmans got you all set up.   Your guide will do the rest with the type of fly’s that you should use.   If I only had one fly and was going to the Deschutes I would have a Frieght Train tied on to the leader.   Be sure to use a wading staff for you and your dad, it will save your butt from falling in so many times.  But when you do fall in keep your feet pointing down river, that will save your life. Sharp Hooks, Pat Holdzit Fishing Products Inc. http://www.holdzit.com Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …..(It’s luchtime and I had a few minutes, okay?) If you’ve got a few more minutes Joe please try: bastard loon PETA dam C&R C&K If you STILL have time on your hands I’ll try to come up with a more comprehensive list!

Why do you persist in omitting "meniscus"?   Besides, I said a few minutes, not a few days.  :-) Joe F.

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I’d be willing to bet that a deja news search of ROFF will return more hits on "scotch" than on "steelhead".   (I might actually try that.)

I was wrong.   (There’s something you won’t hear often here, Brian.) "Steelhead" appeared in 1,095 posts in the last 12 months; while I had to allow "malt" as well as "scotch" to bring that total up to a creditable, if distant, 495.   (It’s luchtime and I had a few minutes, okay?) Joe F.

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I’d be willing to bet that a deja news search of ROFF will return more hits on "scotch" than on "steelhead".   (I might actually try that.) I was wrong.   (There’s something you won’t hear often here, Brian.) "Steelhead" appeared in 1,095 posts in the last 12 months; while I had to allow "malt" as well as "scotch" to bring that total up to a creditable, if distant, 495.   (It’s luchtime and I had a few minutes, okay?) Joe F.

Thanks for the welcome… Maybe there are more posts about steelhead because of the few posts about scotch?  Or maybe the quantity of steelhead posts are because of the ammount of scotch? Brian http://www.blazertechnologies.com

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…..(It’s luchtime and I had a few minutes, okay?)

If you’ve got a few more minutes Joe please try: bastard loon PETA dam C&R C&K If you STILL have time on your hands I’ll try to come up with a more comprehensive list!

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Where is deja.news and how do you access it? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d be willing to bet that a deja news search of ROFF will return more hits on "scotch" than on "steelhead".   (I might actually try that.) I was wrong.   (There’s something you won’t hear often here, Brian.) "Steelhead" appeared in 1,095 posts in the last 12 months; while I had to allow "malt" as well as "scotch" to bring that total up to a creditable, if distant, 495.   (It’s luchtime and I had a few minutes, okay?) Joe F.

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Question:

you might visit http://www.troutangler.com they wont be too far out of your way. — happy trails, Mike Foate Polo Ponies, Ranch Vacation, Web Site Design http://www.rockinghorseranch.com

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Starting from Yosemite, crossing Nevada, Utah, Colorado and back to San Francisco. In early June (12 days). Where are the best places for flyfishing???? (catch & release, too) Accomodation suggestions?? Thanks in advance. Giovanni from Italy.

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Starting from Yosemite, crossing Nevada, Utah, Colorado and back to San Francisco. In early June (12 days). Where are the best places for flyfishing????

That is not enough time!   20 Lakes Basin east of Yosemite. Walker River, north on Hwy. 395 Truckee River north of there. Across Nevada and Utah, hit the all of the larger streams/rivers in CO.   —  markb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Giovanni from Italy.

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Starting from Yosemite, crossing Nevada, Utah, Colorado and back to San Francisco. In early June (12 days). Where are the best places for flyfishing???? (catch & release, too) Accomodation suggestions?? Thanks in advance. Giovanni from Italy.

Giovanni: The period you will be fishing is pretty much dead in the middle of the "normal" spring runoff here in the Rockies.  With that in mind, you may find yourself sticking to tailwater streams below artificial lakes.  Another possibility is some of the lakes themselves. Here in Utah, three of the better-known tailwaters are the Green River below Flaming Gorge Reservoir, the Provo River below Jordanelle and Deer Creek Reservoirs, and Currant Creek below Currant Creek Reservoir.  All have extremely good fishing at times although the Provo and the Green tend to get a *lot* or pressure so the fish are fairly educated.  You can wade fish all of those streams, but you would probably have more luck on the Green if you hire a guide for a float trip – it’s a *big* river. I don’t know what your opinion of lake fishing with flies is, but there can be some very good fishing that time of year in some of the lakes in Utah. Strawberry Reservoir (about 1.5 hours south and east of Salt Lake City) is the premier lake in Utah, but there are many others that offer good fishing if you have a float tube or other type of boat.. Up in Wyoming, the New Fork River near Pinedale has the reputation as fishing the best early in the season, but there is very little public water.  You can, however, do float trips with a number of guide operations. I’ve never fished it, but the Ham’s Fork River outside Kemmerer is supposed to be very good.  Most of the other streams are fairly likely to be very high from runoff that time of year. A possible thought would be lake fishing on private water.  Western Rivers Flyfishing shop in Salt Lake City offers day trips on a number of lakes at a private ranch called L C Ranch.  Supposed to be VERY good fishing and they provide everything you might need. Good luck.  Accomodations are pretty easy that time of year here in Utah. Email me direct if you have any other questions. Bob

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Question:

Please teach a newbie gardener the basics of dividing irises.  The specific Iris I have in mind is Siberian, I think, tall with lance-shaped leaves and small blooms.  The plant itself is doing wonderfully (20 blossoms and counting), but I’ve noticed that it’s taken on a circular growing pattern, with a blank space of soil at the center.  I understand that this is a sign that the plant needs to be divided and/or moved. How do I cut the rhiozomes to divide the plant? When is the best time of year to perform the operation? Do irises need to be moved to fresh soil occasionally?

Siberian irises have bulbs, not rhizomes.  You divide them [in the fall] by cutting off all the leaves about 4" above ground level, digging up the entire clump, gently splitting the bulbs apart, and replanting at about 6" depth, and 8-12" separation.  To avoid fungus problems, I generally wash and dry the bulbs before replanting, and dust with sulphur, but this is completely optional. To divide rhizomatous iris, cut off the leaves, dig up the clump, wash off the soil, and, using a sharp knife, divide the rhizomes into groups of 1-3 leaf bundles.  Dry very well, and dust with sulphur before replanting, with the rhizomes above the ground.  [In very cold areas you put winter mulch on the rhizomes after the ground freezes, and remove it in early spring.] As long as you are fertilizing regularly, your irises don’t need to be moved to a new location. Chris Owens

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Siberian irises have bulbs, not rhizomes.

  Did you mean the reverse?  Mine grow in expanding grass-like clumps of nearly solid root mass so it’s hard to tell.  Looks more like a rhizome.   With healthy clumps of Cesears Brother, I’ve heard it recommended to dig them up and run over them with a car until you get them broken into managable clumps.  It’ll take a pick ax to get mine out of the ground. — Lloyd Fortney http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney/ has links to my garden, flower, flyfishing, and travel JPEG images as well as teaching, research, and stuff like that

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Please teach a newbie gardener the basics of dividing irises.  The specific Iris I have in mind is Siberian, I think, tall with lance-shaped leaves and small blooms.  The plant itself is doing wonderfully (20 blossoms and counting), but I’ve noticed that it’s taken on a circular growing pattern, with a blank space of soil at the center.  I understand that this is a sign that the plant needs to be divided and/or moved. How do I cut the rhiozomes to divide the plant? When is the best time of year to perform the operation? Do irises need to be moved to fresh soil occasionally? Thanks in advance, Doctor Fang

Response:

Please teach a newbie gardener the basics of dividing irises. The specific Iris I have in mind is Siberian, I think, tall with lance-shaped leaves and small blooms.  The plant itself is doing wonderfully (20 blossoms and counting), but I’ve noticed that it’s taken on a circular growing pattern, with a blank space of soil at the center.  I understand that this is a sign that the plant needs to be divided and/or moved.

Sounds like a siberian, if the leaves are half an inch or so in width. Divided, yes perhaps.  It may be a good idea, but isn’t absolutely necessry if it’s blooming well and you’re satisfied with the appearance.  20 blooms isn’t a lot for a clump. How do I cut the rhiozomes to divide the plant?

Cut the foliage back to about 6" on the part you are about to cut away, so you can see what you are doing.  Take a sharp pointed spade and make a vertical cut through the ring.  Drive the spade down as deeply as you can.  You want to get as much root as possible.  Siberians are very deep rooted.  Move along the ring to include as many crowns as you want, or perhaps about 6" and make another cut.  If necessary cut also along the outside edge to free the section up and then remove it.  Take as much soil with the division as possible, to minimize root disturbance. Some people advocate doing this to a long established clump every year, removing 1/4 to 1/3 of the clump.  Each year you take the oldest remaining section.  When a section is removed it’s replaced with fresh enriched top soil.  This goes a long way to eliminating the ring effect and leaves a large established clump mostly intact to look good and still bloom well the next year. When is the best time of year to perform the operation?

Siberians are tough.  When it’s finished blooming you can divide it.  The foliage should be cut back (as above).  Keep the new division very well watered for at least several weeks to help them re-establish.  If you don’t want or haven’t room for the divisions send them to me! Do irises need to be moved to fresh soil occasionally?

No, but they grow more vigorously in soil that hasn’t grown iris before or in many years.  Iris give off a substance which acts as a growth inhibitor. Dennis Mathiasen Central NY Zone 4b

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Question:

Just to clarify my previous post – Summit County, Colorado. Zemel

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Anyone have good info on fly fishing in Cabo San Lucas?  I am going down in April and would love some salt water action.   Keith McDonald Columbia Homes, Inc. 206-222-6317

Be sure and read the article on "Gonzalo’s" under rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater.  Don’t think I’d mess with them from those other people’s experience.

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 Anyone have good info on fly fishing in Cabo San Lucas?  I am going down – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – in April and would love some salt water action.   Keith McDonald Columbia Homes, Inc. 206-222-6317

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Couple questions from a group newcomer: 1) Heading to Summit County in March – any suggestions, away from towns preferrably? 2) I need some cold-weather fishing gloves – again, any suggestions? Thanks in advance. Mitch Zemel

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Question:

Fly fishing is an art.

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Fly fishing is an art.

Most definitely true!!!!! After all, anyone who can hook a fly has to be artful!!!! heh Paul

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Fly fishing is an art.

 It is what you make it, Not all anglers would I call artistic, when it comes to fly fishing, I have seen a few beginners who actually get me to laugh so hard, I am powerless to do anything but stand there, with tears in my eyes,,,,But when perfected, I couldent agree with you more,  just aint no feeling in the world like it..

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Question:

Before I begin this trip report I would like to thank the following folks who provided much useful information via e-mail that helped me to plan Jeff Bryson, Nic Lyons, Lyle Nichols, Kief Hillsbery, Tim Medley, Ed Zalta, Keith Price.  I would also like to thank the park rangers, but I can’t, because what little information they provided was either badly out of date or just plain wrong.   Day 1:  Arrival Loaded the VW in a cold drizzle in San Francisco.  Fortunately, this was the most weather we would see the entire trip.  Arrived at South Lake at 4:30 pm and stashed the bike.  Got to North Lake trailhead parking at 5:00. Had shocking realization that I had left all coffee apparattus at home.   Searched the car and came up with one cotton sock, slightly used.  It would have to do.  Hit trail and hiked for 1 hour to Lower Lamarck Lake.  Made camp in a luxurious site on the east shore.  From campsite we thought we could see Lamarck Col, our next day’s destination.  Fortunately, we were way wrong as we were looking up at the very steep snow field on the north face of Mt. Lamarck.  Went to sleep beneath billions and billions of stars.  (Who needs a tent in the Sierra?)  Everything went fine until the brightest goddamned moon I have ever seen came out and rioted around the lake.  Maybe a tent would have been a good idea after all. Finally fashioned eye shades and nodded off. to be continued… -Matt Spitzer

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Day 2 (Monday, September 6):  Darwin Canyon via Lamarck Col Awoke very early to get morning reflection shots of Mt. Lamarck on the lake. Then I made my first attempt to make coffee using my sock/drip maker.  It wasn’t very successful, as the sock tended to soak up all the boiling water and scald my fingers.  Off to a fine Alpine start (10:00 am) we headed up the trail to the upper Lamarck Lake and then  took the made, but unmarked trail up to the Col.  About 4 miles (I’m guessing) and 2,000 ft later we arrived at the foot of the Col, a little winded (yeah, right).  We hadn’t known what to expect, so we had brought along ice axes.  As it turned out, the snowfield on the Col was so rutted out by people’s foot tracks that there was a waist high wall on the downhill side to prevent us from falling.  At the top (12,900) we had great views of the Piute Crags and the lovely town of Bishop to the North and Glacier encrusted Darwin Peak and the gorgeous (literally) Darwin Canyon to the South and West.  After a brief break Minio shot head first down the slope into Darwin Canyon.  I followed behind, enjoying an occaisional plunge step in some loose stuff.  We arrived at the highest lake and then it was a simple walk, much of it over boulders ranging in size from a tv sets to VW buses, down to the lowest lake where we made camp, exhausted. Fishing in the lake was poor for golden trout to 8", but scenery was excellent. Scenery became even more intese at sunset when alpenglow lit the back wall of the canyon and everything glowed orange.  That night many billions of stars, some shooting, and several sattelites came out to play, until the friggin’ moon came out and drove them off. Day 3:  Darwin Canyon to Evolution Basin This morning I devised an improvement to the coffee maker.  I propped open the end of the sock with two crossed twigs and suspended the whole thing from a string tied to the twigs.  Using my new Hane’s drip maker I was (theoretically) able to make my morning cup of Guatemalan love juice without losing any layers of skin from the fingers.  However, the water goes through the sock much too quickly, resulting in an underextracted brew.  This was remedied by soaking sock in cup like a tea bag, but final squeeze scalds fingers again.  Packed up camp and countoured through Darwin Bench and around west slope of ridge extending from Darwin Peak.  From this slope we get excellent panoramic vista stretching from Evolution Valley to Evolution Basin including many snow packed peaks.  Minio and I reach consensus that Evolution Valley has been much over-hyped, as it is a rather unimpressive low stretch of bear country, lined by rather unimpressive walls. Evolution Basin, and the peaks to the south and east, by contrast, is glorious.  The slope we are traversing is itself a thing of beauty, covered with blooms of columbine, shooting star and numerous other flowers including some kind of onion-thing.  Eventually we work our way down toward Evolution Lake, but come to an impass where we have to do a little free climbing (50 ft of 5.4 at most) and then we are home free.  On our way to the lake we observe that if we had just gone up once more we could have waltzed down to our present position without any climbing at all.  By the shores of the stunningly beautiful Evolution Lake we join the John Muir trail and soon come across a trail crew, busily filling in the old trail and planting shrubs along its course. The new trail they have built for us is a work of art, a veritable super highway through the High Sierra. After a brief foot-soaking break by the lake’s edge we are off.  Leaving the lake we hike beside a small cascading stream up to Saphire Lake where we make camp.  In faithful observance of Labor Day Minio breaks out his copy of International Trotskyist and begins reading.  I head back down the stream that connects the two lakes and begin fishing at 4 pm.  By 6:30 I have fished my way back to our campsite in failing light, having caught and released 72 golden trout ranging from embarrasingly small to 10 inches on dry flies. A note about small goldens:  they are incredibly stupid.  About the only thing I could do to disuade them from hitting was to badly drag the fly against the current.  They never seemed to mind the fact that I fished right through a hatch of small brown mayflies with a #10 Cream Wulff.  That evening we slept out of the fairly stiff wind in a rock shelter that Minio built by the North shore of the Lake while I fished.  The whiskey bottle is already getting dangerously empty. to be continued… -Matt Spitzer

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