Question:

I live in Utah and i am wondering what the best fly to use is. I Am fishing provo river and Hobble creek.  What would be the best fly to use for fishing lakes.  I have fished Scofeild and electric lake.  if you could help me i would appriciate it.

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I live in Utah and i am wondering what the best fly to use is.

The one that catches fish. Sorry, couldn’t resist

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As long as your muffler bearings have not gunkulated your framistat it is fairly harmless. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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I just can not wait to see the Fortenberry tartan !  Make sure you get photos ! TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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Yeah, OK, so you’re justified in dropping an F-bomb on a guy for a first-time mistake.

You don’t read so well, first-time I said, and I quote: Try to learn a little something about the forum before you come barging in with a bunch of bullshit. It’s called netiquette and you’re in dire need of it. Now tell me why it is again that you called Vern a clueless idiot.

I called Vern a clueless idiot for the obvious reason. — Ken Fortenberry

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Mr. Dreamer,  the post from your grandson was loaded with potentially dangerous and extremely annoying features, dumping cookies, starting browsers, filling screens with HTML code,  initiating auto-dial-ups, etc. This is a very bad thing to do.  When I opened the post I got very alarmed at all the things it did before I could do anything to stop it.  It shot my machine down, and I was obliged to do a restart etc.  I was also obliged to attempt to delete it unread at first, and after trying this three times, and re-setting my machine, I was able to actually read the post, albeit by this time most unwillingly. Apart from which, this newsgroup discusses fly-fishing and not boats. Now at least you know what your grandson did wrong.  I doubt anybody wished to hurt him, but this sort of post is not only annoying, but potentially dangerous.   As you obviously know better, you can perhaps explain to him why what he did was wrong, and in future when you allow him to use your e-mail, you might supervise him a little more closely, and aid him in his endeavours.  Usenet or the internet in general is not the place to allow 10 year old boys free rein. If you or your grandson has any questions pertaining to fishing, then there are lots of people here, including Mr.Harrison, who would be only to pleased to help you. The gut reaction from many to posts which manipulate the machine is to immediately protest to the sender and the ISP of that sender. Regarding the information requested in the original post, there are two basic reasons for a two stroke motor smoking, one is too much oil in the mixture, and the second is the oil scraper rings are worn. This bungs up the spark plugs. If you take the plug out and it is covered in black soot, then one of these reasons is usually the problem. This will eventually also result in misfiring, and difficult starting. Two stroke motors are rarely used for fly-fishing per se. For this type of info, go to a boating group, or your local garage, marina  etc. This and other groups are not free information services. I am sure anybody would welcome a newbie on here with any genuine questions. If your grandson wishes to try again, WITHOUT ANY EXOTIC CODING IN THE MESSAGE, then I am sure both you and he will be pleasantly surprised. I hope this is of help to you. Tight lines ! Mike Connor — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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… this skirmish shall take place on a glen atop grandfather mountain at 2pm on may 8th in the year of our glorious salmo, 2000. standard scottish kilts shall be worn …

Nope, no way. I know what’s under a kilt, more to the point I know what’s NOT under a kilt. Janik can be Evil Ken Twin #1. Actually I prefer it that way, when I refer to him as #1, I feel positively Patrick Stewarty. — Ken Fortenberry

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Hey, who knows I just might be finding myself back in cowtown in the not so distant future.  And…hee hee hee…I know my way around DCL.  Don’t worry, I’ll be armed with Bud as a peace offering.  :-)

Oh gawd, another "corporate partner" come to rape the alma mater. 1412 DCL, and check the "born on date", stale Bud ain’t no peace offering. — Ken Fortenberry

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What can you expect from a jerk? Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip There wasn’t malice in the first post but the second post was definitely out of line. You do not post private email to a USENET newsgroup without the authors permission, and I am assuming that Ernie didn’t give his permission to post that rather mild rebuke to ROFF. That’s malice #1, whether they have enough of a clue to realize it or not, it is definitely malice of a most egregious nature. Fuck ‘em. — Ken Fortenberry

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Rhode Island Dreamer,    If you are going to turn your grandson loose with your computer you should teach him news group regulations.  He sent a bunch of crap which tied up my computer and made me shut down the program just to get rid of it.  If your grandson wants to communicate with this news group let him do it in plain English.  He will find the group is friendly and helpful.  I guess the rest of the group told you what they think about his message and yours. I’ll just say wake up jerk, if you weren’t dreaming perhaps you would know what your grandson is doing. Ernie Harrison I hope that someone can help me. My grandson (10) was on his grandfather’s email so that he could go to discuss: fly fishing. Fly fishing is his favorite. He wrote in on a few questions, that he knew back(included below). Not exactly what I thought good sportsmanship was all about. I have always put fisherman up there with people I like to associate with.  One bad apple spoils it for everyone. My grandson was so hurt. He didn’t know what he did wrong and now doesn’t  want to cotribute to the discuuss group any more.     CAN"T BLAME HIM, CAN YOU! X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 What the hell do you think this is? Quit posting the Webb junk to this news group Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —— Original Message —– Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 1:43 PM

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There wasn’t malice in the first post but the second post was definitely out of line. You do not post private email to a USENET newsgroup without the authors permission, and I am assuming that Ernie didn’t give his permission to post that rather mild rebuke to ROFF.

Yeah, OK, so you’re justified in dropping an F-bomb on a guy for a first-time mistake. Now tell me why it is again that you called Vern a clueless idiot a few days ago for dropping an F-bomb on someone who spammed the group? Seems to me if you’re gonna ream some guy for trying to explain the errant newsgroup behavior of his grandkid you’d certainly champion the cause of anyone who would rail on newsgroup spammers. You cannot possibly think the grandpa or the grandson knew any better–yet that’s essentially the same defense you used in your "take-a-chill-you-idiot" post to Vern. –Steve

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … but unless I’m missing something on this one, it seems uncalled for…and I’m not generally considered a softie on these things. Ah HAH ! SO, you relinquish the title Evil Ken Twin #1  ?? Hey, I gotta have something to keep my edge sharp on. With George killfiled and Timmy giving up his mental cluster fuck lately I guess I’m just getting rusty. Newbies just aren’t much fun to pick on IMHO.      - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the  initiative in creating the Internet."  - Al Gore

let me see if i understand this…. some clueless newbie posts a message with a obscene webtv html sig (killfiled his honor immediately)….. ernie, in moderation rebukes him…. grandma gets in a huff…. et1 is moderate…..ET2, seeing a chink in ET1’s armor, wants to wrestle the blooded praetorial monniker away from ET1…. yup, makes sense to me….. as clavemeister, i call for a meeting of the et’s to settle this most unpleasant matter. this skirmish shall take place on a glen atop grandfather mountain at 2pm on may 8th in the year of our glorious salmo, 2000. standard scottish kilts shall be worn and the combatatants, aside from their mercurious wit, shall be armed with cabers and blarney stones and of course, proper drink. last man standing takes the name. waldo

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… but unless I’m missing something on this one, it seems uncalled for…and I’m not generally considered a softie on these things.

Ah HAH ! SO, you relinquish the title Evil Ken Twin #1  ?? By your own admission, I am the more Evil of the Evil Ken Twins. Please change your moniker to ET2. — Ken Fortenberry- it was just a matter of time

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… but unless I’m missing something on this one, it seems uncalled for…and I’m not generally considered a softie on these things. Ah HAH ! SO, you relinquish the title Evil Ken Twin #1  ??

Hey, I gotta have something to keep my edge sharp on. With George killfiled and Timmy giving up his mental cluster fuck lately I guess I’m just getting rusty. Newbies just aren’t much fun to pick on IMHO.      - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the  initiative in creating the Internet."  - Al Gore

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– Other ROFFians laugh with glee?

FWIW, the experience with the dentist wasn’t fun nor was it, in my opinion, called for. If he had tried the extremely cold test on the bad tooth and I didn’t feel it we could have gone right on with the root canal, IMO. I didn’t think I was laughing with glee about anything, then or now. — Charlie…

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let me get this straight: – Some kid, or potentially clueless adult posted an innocent   question, but had the mime and/or html set on their browser. – Some ROFFian reamed them for it. – Kid’s parents, grandparents, or potentially same clueless adult   posts whining about the treatment. – Some ROFFian reams them for it. – Other ROFFians laugh with glee? Yeah, usenet is rough, but should we really go out of our way to be rough?  When there is malice on the newbie’s part I can understand it, but unless I’m missing something on this one, it seems uncalled for…and I’m not generally considered a softie on these things.

There wasn’t malice in the first post but the second post was definitely out of line. You do not post private email to a USENET newsgroup without the authors permission, and I am assuming that Ernie didn’t give his permission to post that rather mild rebuke to ROFF. That’s malice #1, whether they have enough of a clue to realize it or not, it is definitely malice of a most egregious nature. Fuck ‘em. — Ken Fortenberry

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I hope that someone can help me.

USENET newsgroups are not "discuss" groups for every muddle headed moron with a webTV account. If you or your 10 year old wants to participate here, learn how to do it right. For what it’s worth, Ernie Harrison was quite polite given the circumstances. Now, fuck off. Hope this helps. — Ken Fortenberry

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I hope that someone can help me. My grandson (10) was on his grandfather’s email so that he could go to discuss: fly fishing. Fly fishing is his favorite. He wrote in on a few questions, that he knew back(included below). Not exactly what I thought good sportsmanship was all about. I have always put fisherman up there with people I like to associate with.  One bad apple spoils it for everyone. My grandson was so hurt. He didn’t know what he did wrong and now doesn’t  want to cotribute to the discuuss group any more.     CAN"T BLAME HIM, CAN YOU!

Sorry your grandson got singed, but all of that music and pictures and junk in the webTV signatures is considered very rude on text-only newsgroups, and cost European subscribers that pay by the minute a lot of money to download the big files.  The only people who can enforce these rules are the newsgroup users.  The responses were probably a little too harsh, but no one expects kids to actually read roff with all the politics and BS they’d have to wade through. — Levi "There are no facts, only interpretations." -Friedrich Nietzsche

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For what it’s worth, Ernie Harrison was quite polite given the circumstances. Now, fuck off. Hope this helps.

LOL.   This is one of those threads that I catch the end of then have to go back and see where it started. Joe F.

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LOL.   This is one of those threads that I catch the end of then have to go back and see where it started.

Oh, now I understand. Joe F.

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Hope this helps. I had a root canal a few weeks ago and, before he did it, the dentist wanted to verify that the root was dead. He did this by touching the tooth with an extremely cold object. The bad news was that he calibrated it by testing a known good tooth first so I would know what extreme pain felt like. Forty provides the same service on roff<g.

ROFLMAO.     Is it safe? Joe F.

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Oh, now I understand.

Except for how he got Jack Webb’s TV. Joe F.

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Hope this helps.

I had a root canal a few weeks ago and, before he did it, the dentist wanted to verify that the root was dead. He did this by touching the tooth with an extremely cold object. The bad news was that he calibrated it by testing a known good tooth first so I would know what extreme pain felt like. Forty provides the same service on roff<g. — Charlie…

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Hey, Ernie, why didn’t you tell them what you *really* felt?   <g Dave L.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hope this helps. I had a root canal a few weeks ago and, before he did it, the dentist wanted to verify that the root was dead. He did this by touching the tooth with an extremely cold object. The bad news was that he calibrated it by testing a known good tooth first so I would know what extreme pain felt like. Forty provides the same service on roff<g. ROFLMAO.     Is it safe? Joe F.

Let me get this straight: – Some kid, or potentially clueless adult posted an innocent   question, but had the mime and/or html set on their browser. – Some ROFFian reamed them for it. – Kid’s parents, grandparents, or potentially same clueless adult   posts whining about the treatment. – Some ROFFian reams them for it. – Other ROFFians laugh with glee? Yeah, usenet is rough, but should we really go out of our way to be rough?  When there is malice on the newbie’s part I can understand it, but unless I’m missing something on this one, it seems uncalled for…and I’m not generally considered a softie on these things.      - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the  initiative in creating the Internet."  - Al Gore

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– Other ROFFians laugh with glee? FWIW, the experience with the dentist wasn’t fun nor was it, in my opinion, called for. If he had tried the extremely cold test on the bad tooth and I didn’t feel it we could have gone right on with the root canal, IMO. I didn’t think I was laughing with glee about anything, then or now.

Wasn’t necessarily replying to your message or portion of the thread. Yours just happened to be the message I had handy after going back and reading the beginning of the thread.      - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the  initiative in creating the Internet."  - Al Gore

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I hope that someone can help me. My grandson (10) was on his grandfather’s email so that he could go to discuss: fly fishing. Fly fishing is his favorite. He wrote in on a few questions, that he knew back(included below). Not exactly what I thought good sportsmanship was all about. I have always put fisherman up there with people I like to associate with.  One bad apple spoils it for everyone. My grandson was so hurt. He didn’t know what he did wrong and now doesn’t  want to cotribute to the discuuss group any more.       CAN"T BLAME HIM, CAN YOU! X-MSMail-Priority:

Question:

Screw up good fly fishing.  Nothing worse in the outdoors than a FurWrap that can’t clean fish, dig worms or who can’t make a camp fire, cut or haul wood or who runs out of matches and then doesn’t know how to rub two sticks together, OR who doesn’t make a good pot of coffee.  A well trained FurWrap will deliver a cold bottle of beer streamside and not talk and drown out the sound of singing birds, but there is nothing worse if she doesn’t have a nice mixed drink to hand you when you arrive from a great day of fly fishing before she helps pull off your waders, hangs them up, runs your bath, gets in and soaps you down and later serves you a filet mignon, medium rare. Other than that, they don’t have many more uses or distractions worthy enough to bring them along unless they happen to be a good cribbage player. So tell us Frank?  Why? oh why, oh why this one? George Gehrke "shut up honey and deal"

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<snipped a bunch of misogyny George Gehrke "shut up honey and deal"

George, If you’re still in Rochester you may want to stay there – indefinately. Your post may have been brought to the attention of the wife of a certain retired rod designer who lives not that far from you, and it may not be healthy for you to return home.  8) Bob Weinberger

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Question:

BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies? I read somewhere that they emit a mild toxin into the water which repels the fish.  They hang out in groups because then there is a higher concentration of the toxin, providing a higher level of safety.

Oh, she’s talking about water striders! I thought she was talking about midges. Kevin’s right. Water striders are toxic. I remember last year at the San Juan Clave there were lots of midges in the eddies and other slackwater, but the fish were ignoring them. I wondered why, and still do. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies? I read somewhere that they emit a mild toxin into the water which repels the fish.  They hang out in groups because then there is a higher concentration of the toxin, providing a higher level of safety.

Thank you.  That sounds right.  I know they’re not fast, as I’ve always been easily able to hand catch one.   — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

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BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies?  

I understood that these were just not a favorite food of trout…being that they’re as hard as peanuts.  In NJ, those and skating spiders are not eaten by trout in any waters that I know of.

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One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable?

I’m loving trying to do it for drys or surface lures, but I can’t bring myself to feel that anything but a really dead bug will drift fairly freely, and even that bug will bounce into and off of things, including the bottom if using an under surface fly / lure. BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies?  I don’t see them much in water where other varieties of decent sized game fish are around or else they stay so shallow that nothing big can get them.  Is it the Monarch butterfly sort of thing in the water? — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

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One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable? I’m loving trying to do it for drys or surface lures, but I can’t bring myself to feel that anything but a really dead bug will drift fairly freely, and even that bug will bounce into and off of things, including the bottom if using an under surface fly / lure.

I kind of hate to post this, because I’m such a "fucking putz" at presenting nymphs compared to people like Willi and Bruce, but here’s my understanding of the theory. There’s something called the "turnover point." When you cast your nymph out, in the normal scheme of things, you should try to get your indicator upstream of the nymph. The current on the surface carries the indicator downstream faster than the deep-drifting nymph. Upstream mends can help, but you risk pulling the fly right out of the trouts’ mouths. There is a point — the "turnover" point — when the nymph is just below the indicator. This is when it’s doing its best rendition of a "dead drift." If you know where the fish are, try to make that the turnover point. BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies?  I don’t see them much in water where other varieties of decent sized game fish are around or else they stay so shallow that nothing big can get them.  Is it the Monarch butterfly sort of thing in the water?

Good question. I think it’s because trout are wary. They don’t want to expose themselves to predators in shallow water when there’s plenty of stuff to eat in safer places. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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There is a point — the "turnover" point — when the nymph is just below the indicator. This is when it’s doing its best rendition of a "dead drift." If you know where the fish are, try to make that the turnover

point. According to Borger, the indicator is more of a drift indicator than strike indicator.  He says if your indicator is drifting as fast as the surface current and your nymph is near the bottom, your nymph is probably dragging. A split shot will help slow it down.  I suppose this would be past the "turnover point" you describe.

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According to Borger, the indicator is more of a drift indicator than strike indicator.  He says if your indicator is drifting as fast as the surface current and your nymph is near the bottom, your nymph is probably dragging. A split shot will help slow it down.  I suppose this would be past the "turnover point" you describe.

Even using the most thought out or "best" combination of weight, leader length etc. there will usually only be a small portion of your drift where the fly is truly approaching a dragfree drift. Like Steve said, you want to try and have this "good" part of the drift in the area that you think holds fish. The deeper the water, overall, the more pronounced this is. You can get more instances of a dragfree drift through mending, but because of the varied currents, it impossible to get a dragfree drift throughout the drift. It’s often difficult to get a dragfree drift with a dry fly. With a dry you can see what’s going on and with a dry, you’re essentially only dealing with a flat plane or two dimensions. With a sunken nymph, in most situations, you have to make inferences about what’s going on with your fly and you’re dealing with three dimensions. MUCH more difficult but fortunately for us, I think the fish are more tolerant of drag with a nymph. Willi

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BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies?

Probably because they are too difficult for the trout to catch. They would experience a net loss in calories because of the energy expended in trying to catch them. Game fish are instinctively aware of the energy/food value relationship, and tend to feed accordingly. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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With a sunken nymph, in most situations, you have to make inferences about what’s going on with your fly and you’re dealing with three dimensions. MUCH more difficult but fortunately for us, I think the fish are more tolerant of drag with a nymph.

        and i suspect that this is because many of the insects we are attempting to imitate with nymphs are alive, and move upwards and from side to side as they attempt to reach the surface, as opposed to the nearly motionless float of duns and spinners. wayno (lifelong reader of field&stream)

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BTW: why don’t trout eat those skittery little black bugs that hang out near shore and in eddies?

I read somewhere that they emit a mild toxin into the water which repels the fish.  They hang out in groups because then there is a higher concentration of the toxin, providing a higher level of safety. Kevin — Check out the Pike Clave Website: <http://www.misu.nodak.edu/~vang/PikeClave/

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries       95% Nymphs       95% Wets       40% Streamers      10% Your percentage for nymphs is surprising to me.  Do you usually let them swing across at the end of the dragfree part of the drift?  I take many fish on nymphs, especially BH PTs, on the rising part of the swing–almost as many as when I fish traditional wets (soft hackles, etc.) this way.

    What I really meant to say was, 95% of the time I nymph I *really* try for a dead drift. The other 5% of the time is when I’m moving (stumbling) upstream, dragging the thing behind me, and some inconsiderate trout bites it.

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Willi asks: What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for:

 Dries (over 90)  Nymphs ( not sure, probably most; 75?)  Wets (less than 10)  Streamers (less than 5) — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries Nymphs Wets Streamers My estimates: Dries: 90 Nymphs: 80 Wets: 50 Streamers: 20

Dries: definitely in the 90+% range during most mayfly hatches. During stonefly hatches, however, or even when I fish a hopper during terrestrial season, I twitch my fly when it’s drifting. Granted, I attempt for it to be subtle, and only a movement every couple of feet or so, but a lot of the hits come right at the twitch. Nymphs: I’d like to think that ALL my fish hit during drag free drift but I think that’s impossible to do all the time. I’d rank it there around 75%. Wets: When I fish them, which isn’t that often, they are moving for sure. 25%. Streamers: Practically all my fish come during the strip or the swing. I do pick up fish occasionally during a drag-free drift but I don’t fish a streamer that often that way. 10% — Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

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Dries: definitely in the 90+% range during most mayfly hatches. During stonefly hatches, however, or even when I fish a hopper during terrestrial season, I twitch my fly when it’s drifting. Granted, I attempt for it to be subtle, and only a movement every couple of feet or so, but a lot of the hits come right at the twitch.

I concur with this. Another "action" technique I especially like is skittering a caddis imitation through shallow, pocket water. Not sure if it is more effective than just a drag free drift but it sure produces some exciting takes. Streamers: Practically all my fish come during the strip or the swing. I do pick up fish occasionally during a drag-free drift but I don’t fish a streamer that often that way. 10%

I’m not a very able streamer fisherman but I frequently cast up and across with a streamer and let it drift down pretty much drag free to allow it to sink. I have taken some fish during this "drag free" part of the drift. Peter? Willi

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Dries: definitely in the 90+% range during most mayfly hatches. During stonefly hatches, however, or even when I fish a hopper during terrestrial season, I twitch my fly when it’s drifting. Granted, I attempt for it to be subtle, and only a movement every couple of feet or so, but a lot of the hits come right at the twitch. I concur with this. Another "action" technique I especially like is skittering a caddis imitation through shallow, pocket water. Not sure if it is more effective than just a drag free drift but it sure produces some exciting takes.

A very fun hatch on the Clark Fork is a #14 olive caddis, a ‘green rock worm’, IIRC. A free-living caddis. Use a LaFontaine-style (God rest his soul) emerging caddis fished just under the surface film down and across or just straight down. If the fly is making a ‘V’ they don’t seem to want it. But if you get it to still be twitching & dragging, literally just under the surface, they wack it pretty hard. There is a particular hole on the CF that really can only best be fished with an almost straight down approach with this method, but right at dusk on a mid-July evening… oh boy! Streamers: Practically all my fish come during the strip or the swing. I do pick up fish occasionally during a drag-free drift but I don’t fish a streamer that often that way. 10% I’m not a very able streamer fisherman but I frequently cast up and across with a streamer and let it drift down pretty much drag free to allow it to sink. I have taken some fish during this "drag free" part of the drift. Peter?

I must amend to my streamer statement above that most of my streamer fishing is done from a boat. With a good oarsman at the helm, you can get some amazingly good presentations that can cover a lot of good water. — Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dries: definitely in the 90+% range during most mayfly hatches. During stonefly hatches, however, or even when I fish a hopper during terrestrial season, I twitch my fly when it’s drifting. Granted, I attempt for it to be subtle, and only a movement every couple of feet or so, but a lot of the hits come right at the twitch. I concur with this. Another "action" technique I especially like is skittering a caddis imitation through shallow, pocket water. Not sure if it is more effective than just a drag free drift but it sure produces some exciting takes. Streamers: Practically all my fish come during the strip or the swing. I do pick up fish occasionally during a drag-free drift but I don’t fish a streamer that often that way. 10% I’m not a very able streamer fisherman but I frequently cast up and across with a streamer and let it drift down pretty much drag free to allow it to sink. I have taken some fish during this "drag free" part of the drift. Peter? Willi

I rarely fish streamers on the dead drift though it can be a useful imitation of a dead or dying minnow with the right pattern.  I tried one day for steelhead using a small, weighted streamer on the dead drift and ended up with a bunch of bugle trout.  They obviously feed on the dead.  I’ve also had carp and smallies suck in streamers when I’ve been counting the fly down on the sink, while fishing in still water. I know that you know this Willi, but as a general comment  . . . About drag for dries, nymphs, and wets – I try to get the situation right for the insect that’s active.  One example – on Whiteman’s Creek, it was Hendrickson time but there was nothing in the air.  I was dead drifting a H. nymph by a log jam in fairly deep water and was batting a fat zero.  Then I remembered that Hendrickson nymphs migrate to shallow, slow water to hatch.  I was standing on the inside of a bend in shallow, slow water so I slowly retrieved my H. nymph along the bottom toward me and picked up a 12" rainbow on the first try.  A few more casts picked up some more fish.   Some mayfly nymphs and caddis pupae are very active swimmers and some mayfly emergers change into adult form a foot or so below the surface before swimming up with their wings (e.g. Dark Hendricksons.)  Many caddis do the same and with some species, the gas they generate causes them to rocket up.  As caddis have micro hairs on their wings they can fly off immediately on emergence whereas mayflies usually need to dry their wings first resulting in lots of fluttering.  Some caddis skitter across the surface before flying off and a few stillwater caddis will skate on the surface all the way to the shore.  When egg laying, some caddis and mayflies dap their eggs on the surface while other caddis and mayflies dive, penetrating the meniscus and laying their eggs on the bottom before swimming back up and flying off (or dying in the mayfly case.)  Small trout will often leap out of the water after dapping egg layers while others actively chase the divers. None of this behaviour can be imitated by a dead drift. Moral:  Know the behaviour of the bug.  Drag is not always your enemy – especially when it’s deliberate. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable? What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries Nymphs Wets Streamers My estimates: Dries: 90 Nymphs: 80 Wets: 50 Streamers: 20 Willi

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One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable? What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries … My estimates: Dries: 90

When people talk about "educated" fish, I think recognizing a dragfree drift is the piscine equivalent of the PhD. I also think it’s highly dependent on the particular watershed. Some places, relatively sterile mountain streams for instance, you can catch a fish with just about any sort of drift at all. On a heavily fished spring creek I’d say that the percentage of fish I take with a dragfree drift is for all intents and purposes 100%. — Ken Fortenberry

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One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable?

Well, IMO, the term "drag free" drift is the wrong term to use for _teaching_ beginners, although _presenting_ in such fashion, is, to me, different than _fishing_ a fly, even if the take occurs within a second or two of presentation.  What is important as to _fishing_ is to not appear so unnatural as to either confuse, and therefore, "spook," a fish or simply telegraph that an offering isn’t food. Granted, this often means no unnatural drag, which is often "drag free" and likely, most experienced fishers know this and use the term "drag free" as a catch-all term.  But I think it does beginners a disservice to teach absolutes (take "the wrist must always be locked or you are casting improperly" training many get, for example) as being an absolute success/failure type of situation. What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: My estimates: Dries: 90 Nymphs: 80 Wets: 50 Streamers: 20

Hmm…I thought a little about it, and I can’t come up with any numbers beyond mere WAGs.  Maybe to my detriment, I don’t seem to take note of this type of data in such a way to be able to quantify it. I’m not suggesting that doing so is improper, just that I don’t.  Or maybe I do take subconscious note, but it has become one of those "I don’t know why I do it that way, I just do" things.   But if forced to make a WAG, I’d say dries, about like your number, wets, about 80-90, and streamers, upwards of 0, but less than 10 <G (simply due to the way I <mostly fish streamers, they wouldn’t be doing much "drifting," drag-free or otherwise, as I take your meaning of "drifting.") TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Willi

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One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable? What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries  

have to say 99%  Worked dries are a minor tactic for me. Nymphs  

couldn’t possibly tell with the deep nymphs, but certainly to shallow sighted fish 100% Wets

70% Streamers

10% Steve

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What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries       95% Nymphs       95% Wets       40% Streamers

     10%

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What percentage of fish do you take during a "dragfree" drift for: Dries       95% Nymphs       95% Wets       40% Streamers      10%

Your percentage for nymphs is surprising to me.  Do you usually let them swing across at the end of the dragfree part of the drift?  I take many fish on nymphs, especially BH PTs, on the rising part of the swing–almost as many as when I fish traditional wets (soft hackles, etc.) this way.   JR

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One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable? My estimates: Nymphs: 80

The more I think about nymphing, the harder it is to believe that a drag free drift happens very often.  Think how difficult it can be with dry flies – in 2 dimensions.  Nymphing is in 3 dimensions, so the problems you have with a dry fly drift are magnified.  Finally, add in the fact that the water slows near the bottom of the river where we often fish nymphs, and it’s a wonder we ever catch a fish. I conclude 2 things: – we are not always getting a drag free drift, but many nymphs do move around under water under their own power.  Sometimes drag simulates this. – there are so many swirling currents in "mixed water" (near bottom rocks and obstructions), that even the trout can’t always detect drag underwater.  Even natural nymphs move in randomly changing ways in some of the "micro currents". There must be places where the flow is constant and trout can detect drag, but there must be places where it’s not, too.  You can probably convince yourself of this by tossing little things into turbulent water several times and watching how they drift differently each time.

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One of the first hurdles a beginer needs to clear is to learn how to present a fly on a dead drift. It’s a very important skill but how often is it necessary or even desirable?

An interesting question, and one I have no idea of the answer.   One thing RDean said tweaked my though process however, and I began thinking not in terms of drag, but time as measurement.   I’m actually amazed at how many of the fish I catch hit the fly within a couple seconds of it hitting the water.   That probably means I suck at drag free drift.   I’m also amazed at how fast the fish can get there.   Unless I’m dropping it right on his nose, those guys really cover some ground, so to speak.   On occasions where flows are simple enough, I do catch some farther down the drift, but generally if I don’t have a take in the first 5 sec., I’m not going to get one. Joe F.

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Question:

Here’s what I’ve seen and used with success to date in the Mid-Hudson valley waters to date. Current Hatches: Midges Small black stoneflies – lots of them Early Black and Early Brown- Stonefly Hendrickson – just started last few days, but lots of activity now. So try….. Nymphs& Streamers:     Zug Bug     B.H. Prince #10-16     Hares Ears, bead-head, regular, or flashback #8-18     Pheasant Tail, bead-head, soft-hackle, regular, and flashback #12-18,     Golden or Yellow Stonefly #6-14     Scuds #12-18, primarily olive has been successful for me     Brassies #16-20     Early Black and Early Brown Stonefly #12-14     Wooly Buggers-all sizes and colors     Zonkers – White, Olive, and Black #2-8 If you can find anything feeding on the surface yet, try for dry flies:     Griffiths Gnat #20-26     Midge Pupa #20-26 Good luck!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there anyone ot there who could tell me what to use in stream’s this time of year.

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Is there anyone ot there who could tell me what to use in stream’s this time of year.The water has settled down now,and is farely clear.I’m just learning about fly fishing.I think it is a beautiful art of fishing.If anyone would be so kind to help me with an answer i would be grateful.                                                        dgn4529 Take Care!

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Question:

i am plannig to buy a fly rod (Vision extreme of Loop green line) and here`s a few questions: What is the difference between fast and medium fast rod in fishing? i am fishing in the river where is not much room, which one is better? Which line is better for 5-6 rod, 5 or 6 and what`s the difference? (sorry for bad english:))

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i am plannig to buy a fly rod (Vision extreme of Loop green line) and here`s a few questions: What is the difference between fast and medium fast rod in fishing? i am fishing in the river where is not much room, which one is better? Which line is better for 5-6 rod, 5 or 6 and what`s the difference? (sorry for bad english:))

Read the thread entitled "Fly rod speeds explanation" on June 24. Also, for casting distances of less than 40′ the 6wt line may load the rod better, while for over that distance, the 5 wt. line may load better.  But if you can, try out both lines before you buy.  Perhaps a friend has some lines he can let you cast on your rod, as a test. I am not familiar with the rod you mention.  The medium fast rod may be more forgiving (easier to cast if you are not a very experienced caster). PatK * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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The softer (slower) the rod, the easier it is to cast. The stiffer (faster) the rod, the farther you can cast. The same is true for length, the longer the farther. However other factors come into play when choosing your first rod. physical conditions (trees, underbrush etc.) varietys of fish pursued, last but not least water fished. A nine foot 5wt rod is a usless tool on a 20′ wide heavily treed creek, fishing for panfish. Whereas the same rod is ideal wading a wide clear river casting for 2-3lb rainbows. In other words like in all other endevors choose the proper tool for the job. John Popp

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i am plannig to buy a fly rod (Vision extreme of Loop green line) and here`s a few questions: What is the difference between fast and medium fast rod in fishing? i am fishing in the river where is not much room, which one is better? Which line is better for 5-6 rod, 5 or 6 and what`s the difference? (sorry for bad english:))

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i am plannig to buy a fly rod (Vision extreme of Loop green line) and here`s a few questions: What is the difference between fast and medium fast rod in fishing? i am fishing in the river where is not much room, which one is better? Which line is better for 5-6 rod, 5 or 6 and what`s the difference? (sorry for bad english:)) I

Question:

If you have been here fishing, I’d appreciate hearing of your experiences and getting all advice you can spare. Thanks!

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Hi Tim, Summer months are best for fly fishing for most of us. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA http://www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you have been here fishing, I’d appreciate hearing of your experiences and getting all advice you can spare. Thanks!

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a ‘94 short-shart Gamefisher (Force?) that’s been running great since I picked it up at the beginning of tge year. However, the last time I was out,I get a "clack, clack, clack" as I was pulling on the starter rope.  I pushed the trans lever back and forth a couple of times, and it started right up with no"clack" at all. I motored to my fishing spot, cut the motor, making sure I was in neutral, then fished.  When I was ready to pull up, I once again went to start the motor and got the "clack" again.  I was once again able to get rid of the clack by moving the trans lever in and out of gear. Does anyone recognize my problem? Do I have a problem? Will I soon have a problem. Thanks…

There is a safety device system to prevent starting the motor in gear located on the flywheel. As the motor gets older parts get worn and these devices don’t quite work as they use to. The clack clack is a little plastic lever thats connected to the gear shift thats half connecting with the fly wheel. Moving the gear lever as you do helps to put it in the right position. I sugest that you take the cover off the engine and observe how this mechnisium works. Its located on the top of the motor at the back (spark plug end) work the gear lever and you will see the lever and how it works. There is another reason you should know about this is because sometimes the mechinisum jams and you can not pull the cord. If this occurs you take the cover off and manually move the lever out from the flywheel. These safety devices usually fail after a few years (regardless of make). If you are really keen you could set about adjusting it. You will find however that there is a spot on he gear lever where the lever is in the out position. Once you know the spot its just a matter of remembering to put it there before starting the motor. Best of luck Silver fox

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I have a ‘94 short-shart Gamefisher (Force?) that’s been running great since I picked it up at the beginning of tge year. However, the last time I was out,I get a "clack, clack, clack" as I was pulling on the starter rope.  I pushed the trans lever back and forth a couple of times, and it started right up with no"clack" at all. I motored to my fishing spot, cut the motor, making sure I was in neutral, then fished.  When I was ready to pull up, I once again went to start the motor and got the "clack" again.  I was once again able to get rid of the clack by moving the trans lever in and out of gear. Does anyone recognize my problem? Do I have a problem? Will I soon have a problem. Thanks…

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Question:

 Hell no the war ain’t over. I’m with Wayno on this one. To all the smug yankees who think they defeated the South, may I remind you who presently runs your country (smirk, smirk).

Hillary was born in upstate New Yawk, wasn’t she?  :-) We Canucks of English descent (who defeated the French on the Plains of Abraham in 1800 and something, Canadian history-really boring) are in the same predicament, as we have a Franco-canadian running our country. (unsmirk, unsmirk)

Geez, Steve – even I, as nearly non-Canuck-history-aware as it’s possible to be, know that the French lost "New France" to the British during the Seven Year’s War sometime around 1760 or so.  (I seem to recall that George Washington fought on the British side, so I’m pretty sure that this was before the colonies told Fat Georgie to make like the wind and blow . Why do we always apologize for winning?

Because it’s the polite thing to do. — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers!

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Steve Cooper: << Hell no the war ain’t over. I’m with Wayno on this one. To all the smug yankees who think they defeated the South, may I remind you who presently runs your country (smirk, smirk). Yeah, a lying, draft-dodging coward, who can’t keep his dick where it belongs. Dave LaCourse

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As a canuck too I think the real problems started when that damn frenchman came from france ans said aloud "Vive La Quebec Libre"….basically telling them they had the support of the French Nation…..In reality as a person who lived in europe for some time I can tell ya that the Fenrch look on the Quebecers as bastard childer and rednecks. As a final thought I say we give them all a shovel and they can dig the friggin’ place off the map for all I care. My .02+ cents Andrew Save the flames I don’t care either way

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As a canuck too…

Ummm…just a point of clarification.  I’m not Canadian, having been born just south of Lake Erie, which explains why I know next to nothing about Canadian history.  However, some of my ancestors reportedly did live in Canada for a while before heading south…  :-) — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers!

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Wayne Harrison wrote FiddleAway wrote Wayne Harrison scientific studies have shown that the i.q. of both fish and fishermen east of the mississippi and south of the potomac are approximately double … I wonder how a bunch of smart guys like that lost the war     war ain’t over yet, yank:) wayno the undefeated

Being a second generation southern californian, I’m not sure I qualify for Yankee status (by the way, I hate the Yankees…especially this year…but that’s another story).  Though I wouldn’t be surprised if being from the West Coast puts me even lower on the Cracker Scale than a yankee. (However, 2 generations back my people are from Arkansas, so at least I have a little of that high IQ genetic material in my background). —                                                       -dnc- BTW – you can start a new war if you want to wayno, but I assure you that the first one did end on the day ol’ Bob E handed in his sword.

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 Hell no the war ain’t over. I’m with Wayno on this one. To all the smug yankees who think they defeated the South, may I remind you who presently runs your country (smirk, smirk). Hillary was born in upstate New Yawk, wasn’t she?  :-)

You are correct. In my naiivete, I thought it was Wee Willy that runs the country, but your analysis is more accurate We Canucks of English descent (who defeated the French on the Plains of Abraham in 1800 and something, Canadian history-really boring) are in the same predicament, as we have a Franco-canadian running our country. (unsmirk, unsmirk) Geez, Steve – even I, as nearly non-Canuck-history-aware as it’s possible to be, know that the French lost "New France" to the British during the Seven Year’s War sometime around 1760 or so.  (I seem to recall that George Washington fought on the British side, so I’m pretty sure that this was before the colonies told Fat Georgie to make like the wind and blow .

That was the first time the Francos and Anglos did battle on N.A. soil. The fight for Canada happened much later, after the U.S./British thing was pretty much settled (but before the North/South disagreements).This all happened when Louis Riel rallied the French and the Metis for independence from the Brits in Canada. They all gathered to yell insults at General Wolfe et al on the Plains of Abraham, but I don’t remember the exact date. Yes its true, we Canadians actually had our own war that involved no one but ourselves. For such an apathetic bunch, we musta been really pissed to start fightin’ amongst ourselves about it! Why do we always apologize for winning? Because it’s the polite thing to do.

But we never seem to get anything resolved Stevo "I’m really PISSED about being so apathetic..well not really pissed, just abit mad…. well actually only a little upset…well actually it doesn’t really bother me that much …well actually I don’t really care…"

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We Canucks of English descent (who defeated the French on the Plains of Abraham in 1800 and something, Canadian history-really boring) are in the same predicament, as we have a Franco-canadian running our country. (unsmirk, unsmirk) Geez, Steve – even I, as nearly non-Canuck-history-aware as it’s possible to be, know that the French lost "New France" to the British during the Seven Year’s War sometime around 1760 or so.  (I seem to recall that George Washington fought on the British side, so I’m pretty sure that this was before the colonies told Fat Georgie to make like the wind and blow . That was the first time the Francos and Anglos did battle on N.A. soil. The fight for Canada happened much later, after the U.S./British thing was pretty much settled (but before the North/South disagreements).This all happened when Louis Riel rallied the French and the Metis for independence from the Brits in Canada. They all gathered to yell insults at General Wolfe et al on the Plains of Abraham, but I don’t remember the exact date.

that was in 1970 after crowds of angry francophone snowmen pelted then Prime Minister Trudeau with bottles of screech during the annual Quebec City Winterfest riot – this happens every year on the Quebecois National fete (holiday) named after the dead French monk St Jean De Batiste. BTW the Plains of Abraham were named after Abraham Lincoln following his assination. We always loved Lincoln as it was thanks to his heroic actions emmigration of US residents to Canada dropped dramatically. We were so happy following that event we formed the country named the plains had a battle with the Grand Armee of Napoleon the First and confederated the country all in one drunken melee. We’ve all been hung over since that great day. Canadian Politics give me such a head ache! Vive La Canada! Ralph H (always on topic) remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply. "I could be bounded in a nutshell, and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams." – Hamlet

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Ralph H wrote [snip]…   …Canadian Politics give me such a head ache!

Beats the politics of your southern neighbors (at least currently), eh? —                                                       -dnc-

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I am 57 years old and lived in New England for the past five years after moving from so. Calif.  I go fly fishing each year  to Maine or Rhode Island and I haven’t caught anything yet.  The problem is because I insist on using flys I’ve tied myself.  It’s very sporting that way.  I used to catch fish in Calif. but nothing in Maine or R.I. I guess the fish are smarter out here.

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I am 57 years old and lived in New England for the past five years after moving from so. Calif.  I go fly fishing each year  to Maine or Rhode Island and I haven’t caught anything yet.  The problem is because I insist on using flys I’ve tied myself.  It’s very sporting that way.  I used to catch fish in Calif. but nothing in Maine or R.I. I guess the fish are smarter out here.

        scientific studies have shown that the i.q. of both fish and fishermen east of the mississippi and south of the potomac are approximately double that of the same subjects westerly and northerly therefrom.           i can’t help it if i’m lucky…(yeah, i know, bob dylan said it first)         wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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   i can’t help it if i’m lucky…(yeah, i know, bob dylan said it first)    wayno

That song always makes me think of my first wife<g. — Charlie…

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        scientific studies have shown that the i.q. of both fish and fishermen east of the mississippi and south of the potomac are approximately double that of the same subjects westerly and northerly therefrom.         i can’t help it if i’m lucky…(yeah, i know, bob dylan said it first)         wayno

Um, doesn’t the chosen location of the fisherman provide a fairly dramatic refutation of at least part of your assertion?  ;-) From the fellow living in God’s country. ATB — Andrew Brunette

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        scientific studies have shown that the i.q. of both fish and fishermen east of the mississippi and south of the potomac are approximately double that of the same subjects westerly and northerly therefrom.         i can’t help it if i’m lucky…(yeah, i know, bob dylan said it first)         wayno

        (strategic snip) From the fellow living in God’s country. ATB — Andrew Brunette

        hell, andrew, i didn’t know you lived in rowan county!  just outside granite quarry, maybe? wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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        scientific studies have shown that the i.q. of both fish and fishermen east of the mississippi and south of the potomac are approximately double that of the same subjects westerly and northerly therefrom.

Well, let’s see…I live east of the river and work west of it. In an effort to maximize my intellectual capacity I think I’ll stay home today… Scot

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         scientific studies have shown that the i.q. of both fish and fishermen east of the mississippi and south of the potomac are approximately double that of the same subjects westerly and northerly therefrom. Well, let’s see…I live east of the river and work west of it. In an effort to maximize my intellectual capacity I think I’ll stay home today… Scot

    ah, yet another testimonial to the impeccable accuracy of my intial post.     wayno the smug

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Wayne Harrison scientific studies have shown that the i.q. of both fish and fishermen east of the mississippi and south of the potomac are approximately double that of the same subjects westerly and northerly therefrom.     wayno the smug

I wonder how a bunch of smart guys like that lost the war —                                                       -dnc-

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I wonder how a bunch of smart guys like that lost the war —                                                     -dnc-

 Ever see "The Mouse That Roared"?  The US is known to spend millions upon millions in countries they defeat in war.  Just note how those dumb, ignorant Southerners in Arkansas Spring Arkansas sold WATER to those BRILLIANT Yankees! It also worked in Warm Springs Va., Hot Springs Va., Sarasota Fla., even Miami Beach! Wayne Hart to fish is human…to release divine

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Wayne Harrison scientific studies have shown that the i.q. of both fish and fishermen east of the mississippi and south of the potomac are approximately double that of the same subjects westerly and northerly therefrom.     wayno the smug I wonder how a bunch of smart guys like that lost the war —                                                      -dnc-

    war ain’t over yet, yank:) wayno the undefeated – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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    war ain’t over yet, yank:) wayno the undefeated

  Hell no the war ain’t over. I’m with Wayno on this one. To all the smug yankees who think they defeated the South, may I remind you who presently runs your country (smirk, smirk). We Canucks of English descent (who defeated the French on the Plains of Abraham in 1800 and something, Canadian history-really boring) are in the same predicament, as we have a Franco-canadian running our country. (unsmirk, unsmirk) Why do we always apologize for winning? Stevo the unsmug

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Question:

Hi, My name is Curt Threlkeld and I am looking for names, numbers, addresses, etc. of fly fishing shops or individuals that I can put on my mailing list.  I live 60 miles south of Cancun, Mexico very close to Boca Paila and Acension Bay. The village is called Puerto Aventuras. I rent beach front condos and work call my toll free 888-803-8454 or visit my web site http://www.bluecaribbean.com .Thank you

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visit my web site http://www.bluecaribbean.com .Thank you

—– There is nothing at your website. When?

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Question:

Many rivers still high, but they are dropping as fast as they went up.   Extremely hot weather melted a lot of snow(still a lot to melt, though).   Big Hole is dropping 10-15% per day.  2′ viz at Melrose yesterday, and salmon flies are showing up down near the "Notch".  River is fishing fairly well with nymphs.  Madison is beginning to drop, too, and traditionally the Montana Power Company drops the Madison flows around the 3rd week of June and begins to fill Hebgen Lake.  Gallatin and Yellowstone are still a mess.  Yellowstone has done some serious damage to  DePuy’s and Armstrong’s Spring Creeks, but NOONE knows for sure how much until the river goes done.  I guess I am the eternal optimist, and I figure this flood is like the YNP fires of 1988.  It will be temporarily inconvenient for us humans, but I expect this event will be beneficial.   Talked to Bob Auger, DePuy’s riverkeeper, yesterday, and he is poised to begin work to rebuild the dam as quickly as the water comes down.  I hope there will be fishing in DePuy’s again by mid-July(will take small bets on this!).  Beaverhead and Big Horn are very good.  Smith River is excellent.  Firehole and Henry’s  Fork are good, too.  Firehole has caddis and PMD’s and the Henry’s Fork is getting ready for green and brown drakes.  High water as this time of year is normal.  Remember, we have been in a decade long drought cycle here, and the recollections of many fishermen are of LOW water years.  Things will look fairly good by first week of July.   Dave Kumlien, Montana Troutfitters,Bozeman html

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Hi Dave, Thanks for the Montana report.  It’s obvious to me you spend a lot of time on it (and for our benefit) and I wanted you to know it’s appreciated. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

Response:

Al Beatty writes: Hi Dave, Thanks for the Montana report.  It’s obvious to me you spend a lot of time on it (and for our benefit) and I wanted you to know it’s appreciated.

I second that. -Ande Rychter

Response:

David, Thanks for the information.  It sure is helpful for those of us who live in the city (ie, Dallas, TX) who plan on traveling to Montana in the near term. I was wondering, do you not receive info on the North Blackfoot (from around North Fork down to either Scotty Browns bridge or Clear Creek), as well as Rock Creek? If you or anyone else could provide info on these areas (such as water conditions, hatch & pattern info, whether I should consider wading or floating, etc.) and what I might expect from around July 10 through July 14, I would appreciate it. Thanks again! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Many rivers still high, but they are dropping as fast as they went up.   Extremely hot weather melted a lot of snow(still a lot to melt, though).   Big Hole is dropping 10-15% per day.  2′ viz at Melrose yesterday, and salmon flies are showing up down near the "Notch".  River is fishing fairly well with nymphs.  Madison is beginning to drop, too, and traditionally the Montana Power Company drops the Madison flows around the 3rd week of June and begins to fill Hebgen Lake.  Gallatin and Yellowstone are still a mess.  Yellowstone has done some serious damage to  DePuy’s and Armstrong’s Spring Creeks, but NOONE knows for sure how much until the river goes done.  I guess I am the eternal optimist, and I figure this flood is like the YNP fires of 1988.  It will be temporarily inconvenient for us humans, but I expect this event will be beneficial.   Talked to Bob Auger, DePuy’s riverkeeper, yesterday, and he is poised to begin work to rebuild the dam as quickly as the water comes down.  I hope there will be fishing in DePuy’s again by mid-July(will take small bets on this!).  Beaverhead and Big Horn are very good.  Smith River is excellent.  Firehole and Henry’s  Fork are good, too.  Firehole has caddis and PMD’s and the Henry’s Fork is getting ready for green and brown drakes.  High water as this time of year is normal.  Remember, we have been in a decade long drought cycle here, and the recollections of many fishermen are of LOW water years.  Things will look fairly good by first week of July.   Dave Kumlien, Montana Troutfitters,Bozeman html

Steve Ginn 2nd VP – Consulting Group

Response: