Question:

Paul, I would check out the site run by a decent guy named Matt. He lives not too far away in Rome I believe. He is familiar with the Utica/Rome areas (about an hour away) and he can turn you on to some other spots in your area. If you head up 87, you will find all sorts of small creeks and streams. They used to be awesome for brookies, but I haven’t fished there in years. His site is: http://www.centralnewyorker.com/CNYflyfisherman.htm Give him a try. Gordon Burr The worst day on the water beats the best day in the office. Gordo

Response:

Hi,  I have been an avid fisher person for many years. Have recently taken up fly fishing – after moving to the Albany New York area.  Any tips for the area, fishing spots (fly fishing or otherwise) fishing partners (I’ll buy the beer or lunch) haven’t made any new friends here yet.  would be greatly appreciated Thanks in advance   Paul P

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Hi,  I have been an avid fisher person for many years. Have recently taken up fly fishing – after moving to the Albany New York area.  Any tips for the area, fishing spots (fly fishing or otherwise) fishing partners (I’ll buy the beer or lunch) haven’t made any new friends here yet.  would be greatly appreciated

Do make the trip up to the Adirondacks – Saranac, Ausable area – if you get the chance.  I’d love to head up there with ya, but it’s not in the cards this year

Response:

Hi,  I have been an avid fisher person for many years. Have recently taken up fly fishing – after moving to the Albany New York area.  Any tips for the area, fishing spots (fly fishing or otherwise) fishing partners (I’ll buy the beer or lunch) haven’t made any new friends here yet.  would be greatly appreciated Thanks in advance   Paul P

Funny, I just left after 10 years. Depending where you live, there are a host of nearby opportunities. My personal favorite was either the Mohawk or the Junction of the Hudson and Hoosac for smallies on the fly. The Mohawk has lots of areas to fish- easily accessible are all the locks (that goes for the Hudson, too). From shore good areas are either end of the Crescent Bridge, the flight locks, Lock 7 in Niskayuna and the other side of Lock 7 accessible from Ferry Rd nature path in Clifton Park, just west of Vischer’s Ferry Road. For the jct of the Hoosac and Hudson get to Stillwater and go across the bridge over the Hudson, turn right into the road for the Lock Park. Park in the lot and take the footpath south from the parking area to the Hoosac. I mostly used white grub bodies and spinners on the Hoosac. It’s very interesting place with a lot of fish but water levels change, sometimes dramatically, dependent  upon releases through the dam at Schagticoke, upriver. It is wild in Summer when water levels are down and fish congregate in the narrow rushing channels cut through the rock. Believe me the Albany are is fantastic for water to fish. Start asking around here or local tackle shops. Add the Adirondacks and Vermont to all the water in the Albany area and you are in paradise. I loved it so much I bought the lifetime license from NY state which is good even if you are no longer a NY resident. Tight lines and watch your footing! Cow

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I was out on the river last night, up at the dam. nothing there yet, give it a week and maybe!! Vern

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m sure that you’re aware that there is a heck of a lot of stream fishing in the area.  But sometime between now and mid-May or so is supposed to be a good time to fish for shad and striped bass.  You may want to look into shore access at Green Island, below the dam at Troy.  I can’t give you any first-hand information: I was in the area last year and researched it a bit, but then wasn’t able to get to it.

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Question:

When I moved into this place 3 months ago, I found that there was 3 dozen pigeons in my gables.  Through a very intense early morning patrol of: removing nests, slamming doors, making a presence known, building a board with nail, then putting an owl on the 3rd floor roof, I finally tried to scare them off with a BB gun.  Is the next step "Rat Nip"? I’m at my Wit’s end here. Thanks.

Response:

Try a LA Habor trick, They strung mono-filiment line ( fishing line) across the areas that the pigeons and seagulls liked to pearch and nest. They can’t see it and they fly right into it and bounce off and sometimes hit the ground. They learn quick that they can’t land there. Cris-cross it like a spider web, as I understant it,  it works very well. Other solution is a tack strip, with small sharp nails, the birds can’t stand on it. I hope this helps, (back to my regular lurk mode) John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -When I moved into this place 3 months ago, I found that there was 3 dozen pigeons in my gables.  Through a very intense early morning patrol of: removing nests, slamming doors, making a presence known, building a board with nail, then putting an owl on the 3rd floor roof, I finally tried to scare them off with a BB gun.  Is the next step "Rat Nip"? I’m at my Wit’s end here. Thanks.

Response:

I had the same problem in my old three story house. Instead of a BB gun I used my sons’ Super Soaker squirt gun. It worked OK for a while – they seemd to know when I was gone and planned their activities accordingly. Mark Molnar – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I moved into this place 3 months ago, I found that there was 3 dozen pigeons in my gables.  Through a very intense early morning patrol of: removing nests, slamming doors, making a presence known, building a board with nail, then putting an owl on the 3rd floor roof, I finally tried to scare them off with a BB gun.  Is the next step "Rat Nip"? I’m at my Wit’s end here. Thanks.

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When I moved into this place 3 months ago, I found that there was 3 dozen pigeons in my gables.  Through a very intense early morning patrol of: removing nests, slamming doors, making a presence known, building a board with nail, then putting an owl on the 3rd floor roof, I finally tried to scare them off with a BB gun.  Is the next step "Rat Nip"?

I had a similar problem with the house I bought a few months ago. The blame could be put on the previous owner, who neighbors told me, fed the pigeons. There are a couple of solutions, you can do them yourself or hire a professional (Look under "Bird Control" or "Pest Control" in the yellow pages). – You can put down spikes in strategic locations. – You can put up netting. – You can live trap (OK, the trap catches them alive, but due to – pigeons’ homing instincts you can’t just let them go, so they have   to be killed). http://www.flybye.com/ sells supplies. I went with a local pest control company that put up spikes and netting and tried to live trap. The live trap didn’t work for me; in fact the pigeons had no respect for it as they would walk all over it, but not go in it. It wasn’t cheap to have it done for me: $400 for the spikes and netting (on a 1.5 story house), and $140 for trapping. For a few weeks the spikes and netting only seemed to work a little. A neighbor recommended putting rubber snakes on the roof. I bought a couple of rubber snakes, but I never did get around to putting them on the roof as after a few weeks the pigeon visitation stopped. Another alternative that I thought of was making the roof accessible to cats. I have a few and there are plenty of neighbor cats. I thought of some designs for "cat ladders" but I never had the need to construct one. — Doug Rudoff

Response:

When I moved into this place 3 months ago, I found that there was 3 dozen pigeons in my gables.  Through a very intense early morning patrol of: removing nests, slamming doors, making a presence known, building a board with nail, then putting an owl on the 3rd floor roof, I finally tried to scare them off with a BB gun.  Is the next step "Rat Nip"?

A couple of cat would discourage them, particularly if you don’t overfeed them. Otherwise, cover all entrances with 1" poultry netting (aka chicken wire); if they’re nesting in louvers or something on the outside, cover those as well (the wire will be virtually invisible from a distance). Place a radio up there blasting heavy metal or rap at full volume, if it won’t bother your neighbors. Scatter around a few handfulls of moth balls. I’m at my Wit’s end here.

I’ve always wanted to build a street named "Wit", terminating in a cul-de-sac… Gary — "It’s like complaining if wood has grains in it. Wood does have grains in it, and it is still beautiful."  Apple VP Phil Schiller, trying to explain away cracks in the Apple G4 Cube as being "mold marks".

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: Try a LA Habor trick, : They strung mono-filiment line ( fishing line) across the areas that : the pigeons and seagulls liked to pearch and nest. They can’t see it : and they fly right into it and bounce off and sometimes hit the : ground. They learn quick that they can’t land there. : Cris-cross it like a spider web, as I understant it,  it works very : well. Other solution is a tack strip, with small sharp nails, the : birds can’t stand on it. : I hope this helps, (back to my regular lurk mode) : John

: When I moved into this place 3 months ago, I found that there was 3 dozen : pigeons in my gables.  Through a very intense early morning patrol of: : removing nests, slamming doors, making a presence known, building a board : with nail, then putting an owl on the 3rd floor roof, I finally tried to : scare them off with a BB gun.  Is the next step "Rat Nip"? : : I’m at my Wit’s end here. : : Thanks. These sound like good ways which DON’T involve killing. No need to do that. —

Response:

Question:

1996 Astro 15 footer 90 HP mercury outboard motorguide RF trolling motor custom cover custom trailor.                                $7995.00 Call Tom Bauer 1-908-686-2800

Response:

Hi Guys, I just started coming to this news group in addition to the fly fishing newsgroups I subscribe to.  I was once such a hard core bass fisherman that I never went fishing without my boat.  Now I do both stream and lake fishing with my first love being fishing for bass and preferably with a fly rod. Being on this group is great!  However, I am surprised at the amount of advertising showing up here.  Is this a valid forum for advertising your used fishing gear? Pete

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1996 Astro 15 footer 90 HP mercury outboard motorguide RF trolling motor custom cover custom trailor.                                $7995.00 Call Tom Bauer 1-908-686-2800

Response:

I believe personal gear is ok.  Trying to pass off comercial for personal is a no no. Brian – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Guys, I just started coming to this news group in addition to the fly fishing newsgroups I subscribe to.  I was once such a hard core bass fisherman that I never went fishing without my boat.  Now I do both stream and lake fishing with my first love being fishing for bass and preferably with a fly rod. Being on this group is great!  However, I am surprised at the amount of advertising showing up here.  Is this a valid forum for advertising your used fishing gear? Pete 1996 Astro 15 footer 90 HP mercury outboard motorguide RF trolling motor custom cover custom trailor.                                $7995.00 Call Tom Bauer 1-908-686-2800

Response:

The Guidelines allows posting of personal advertisements, as long as the subject specifies ‘For Sale.’ — Go fishing. And may your fish be as big as your tales!    Columbia SC, Lake Murray

Response:

Thanks. Pete

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Guidelines allows posting of personal advertisements, as long as the subject specifies ‘For Sale.’ — Go fishing. And may your fish be as big as your tales!    Columbia SC, Lake Murray

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Question:

Matt, This isn’t a "trip report" – this is a "day in the life report" and I hate you for it! Stop posting cruel things like this. -Greg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I moved into a new house last month that has a trout stream running thruogh the backyard. Seeing as how work is slow (like I just said there’s a trout stream in the backyard) and my truck’s broken down (really too bad), I’ve had lots of time to get familiar with my new home waters. Today proved to be one of the finest days yet. I’ve been working on fishing the entire thing and today I managed to fish one of the branches all the way to its source. The crest of the blue ridge mtns. (that’s the only clue you’ll get).Today, I found brookie heaven. The weather was perfect, the water is finally back to normal and the fish wouldn’t leave my fly alone. I watched more than one fish strike at the fly three times before gitting a hold on it. One after another we hauled em. I was using a big fly (sz. 12 wooly bugger) so the little guys were having a hard time getting a grip on it. This was fine though, the fun is in the strike. I managed to land about 5 or 6 before pangs of hunger drove me home. I’ve gotta start remembering to bring along a snack.Tomorrow I’m fishing a different branch too see if it might be a "second heaven". I’ll keep you posted…P.S. Sorry to hear you didn’t catch any fish walt. Better luck next time

Response:

believer in stocked trout breakfasts with eggs over easy, sourdough toast, French Market Coffee, and buttermilk pancakes, WITH maple syrup.

Yikes! I guess that explains your "Frequent Cardiac Surgery Card", George! ;^) /daytripper

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believer in stocked trout breakfasts with eggs over easy, sourdough toast, French Market Coffee, and buttermilk pancakes, WITH maple syrup.

George, I thought you told me you were diebetic.  (?) All those carbs AND sugar! Dave

Response:

I moved into a new house last month that has a trout stream running thruogh the backyard. Seeing as how work is slow (like I just said there’s a trout stream in the backyard) and my truck’s broken down (really too bad), I’ve had lots of time to get familiar with my new home waters. Today proved to be one of the finest days yet. I’ve been working on fishing the entire thing and today I managed to fish one of the branches all the way to its source. The crest of the blue ridge mtns. (that’s the only clue you’ll get). Today, I found brookie heaven. The weather was perfect, the water is finally back to normal and the fish wouldn’t leave my fly alone. I watched more than one fish strike at the fly three times before gitting a hold on it. One after another we hauled em. I was using a big fly (sz. 12 wooly bugger) so the little guys were having a hard time getting a grip on it. This was fine though, the fun is in the strike. I managed to land about 5 or 6 before pangs of hunger drove me home. I’ve gotta start remembering to bring along a snack. Tomorrow I’m fishing a different branch too see if it might be a "second heaven". I’ll keep you posted… P.S. Sorry to hear you didn’t catch any fish walt. Better luck next time

Response:

Wonderful little stream near Boone.  Fish it often and enjoy the Brookies as well as some of the local company.  Glad you like it too.  See you there! Wayne To fish is human…to release divine.     I moved into a new house last month that has a trout stream running thruogh the backyard. Seeing as how work is slow (like I just said there’s a trout stream in the backyard) and my truck’s broken down (really too bad), I’ve had lots of time to get familiar with my new home waters. Today proved to be one of the finest days yet. I’ve been working on fishing the entire thing and today I managed to fish one of the branches all the way to its source. The crest of the blue ridge mtns. (that’s the only clue you’ll get).     Today, I found brookie heaven. The weather was perfect, the water is finally back to normal and the fish wouldn’t leave my fly alone. I watched more than one fish strike at the fly three times before gitting a hold on it. One after another we hauled em. I was using a big fly (sz. 12 wooly bugger) so the little guys were having a hard time getting a grip on it. This was fine though, the fun is in the strike. I managed to land about 5 or 6 before pangs of hunger drove me home. I’ve gotta start remembering to bring along a snack.     Tomorrow I’m fishing a different branch too see if it might be a "second heaven". I’ll keep you posted…     P.S. Sorry to hear you didn’t catch any fish walt. Better luck next time

Response:

P.S. Sorry to hear you didn’t catch any fish walt. Better luck next time

your condolences are most welcome, guess they couldn’t see my size 20 dry in all that big moving water. that’s ok….. i probably should have tied on an "ollie" like you did. for gods sake, it’s january, too early for dries. waldo

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Walt, you might want to go smaller next time. The sulphurs won’t be hatching for months;) Try a 28 midge, they were nailing them last week. You were fishing the stocked section, right? <grin I heard those fish were easy to    -**** Posted from remarQ, Discussions Start Here(tm) ****- http://www.remarq.com/ – Host to the the World’s Discussions & Usenet

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Walt, you might want to go smaller next time. The sulphurs won’t be hatching for months;) Try a 28 midge, they were nailing them last week. You were fishing the stocked section, right? <grin I heard those fish were easy to    -**** Posted from remarQ, Discussions Start Here(tm) ****- http://www.remarq.com/ – Host to the the World’s Discussions & Usenet

believer in stocked trout breakfasts with eggs over easy, sourdough toast, French Market Coffee, and buttermilk pancakes, WITH maple syrup.

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Matt, That post just shows what a low down bum you really are!  Here’s the rest of the world, slaving away at the daily grind and YOU are fishing – in the backyard no less!!! Have you NO shame?! Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC "If you’re not the lead dog, the view never changes."

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Question:

Thursday, October 30, 1997     5:49:06 AM I make a non-commercial site on Small Stream Flyfishing.  All areas of the discipline are covered.  The site has no banners and is chock full of information on Arizona and New Mexico streams.  Take a look, you might like it.  Don’t forget to sign the guest book. I am also looking for reports on Sage’s new 0-weight, if you have any experiences with it, can you post them on my page or here. adam Small Stream Flyfishing http://www.swlink.net/~hangwind

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I too am interested in any field/casting reports on the Sage 0 weight, as well as the Sage 1 weight, the East Branch 1 weight, and any other 1 weights out there (other than the Orvis).  Also, how do these rods compare to the Orvis 1 weight – does anybody know? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thursday, October 30, 1997     5:49:06 AM I am also looking for reports on Sage’s new 0-weight, if you have any experiences with it, can you post them on my page or here. adam Small Stream Flyfishing http://www.swlink.net/~hangwind

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Question:

Hello : I’ve seen people on fishing shows on TV using these cradles for landing muskie and pike, keeping the fish in the water while removing the lure, and then letting the fish swim out on its own.  It’s a great idea but searching in local outdoors stores, no ones’s ever heard of them. Does anyone know where I can buy one of these things ? Best Fishes …  Shawn.

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Hello : I’ve seen people on fishing shows on TV using these cradles for landing muskie and pike, keeping the fish in the water while removing the lure, and then letting the fish swim out on its own.  It’s a great idea but searching in local outdoors stores, no ones’s ever heard of them. Does anyone know where I can buy one of these things ? Best Fishes …  Shawn.

Shawn, Yeah…I’ve seen these on the idiot box as well…have yet to spot one in the stores….seems to me that you could make one easy enough with some strong, soft, porous fabric (cheesecloth maybe??), a couple shovel handles from the hardware store and a staple gun. I just hate to spend on something I can build myself…like those little foam tubes that are "Wader Savers"…you know…the foam you slip the crotch strap of your float tube through…suppose to be easy on the waders…they sell those nicely packaged for $4.95…you can get that from the hardware store for less than a buck I’ll bet…looks like pipe insulation to me…. But hey, that’s me…lookin’ for bargins…. — John Carney          Fly Fisher & Parrot Head (NO-SPAM in address to avoid spamming)

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Question:

I planted creeping phlox 3 yrs. ago and for the first two yrs it did great its not looking that great anymore any suggestions on what to do? Should I fertilize it cut it back pull it out and replant I never realy touched what I have I just let it grow and its real thick but it looks like a lot of it is dying.

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I planted creeping phlox 3 yrs. ago and for the first two yrs it did great its not looking that great anymore any suggestions on what to do? Should I fertilize it cut it back pull it out and replant I never realy touched what I have I just let it grow and its real thick but it looks like a lot of it is dying.

I have only had mine one year, so take it with a grain of salt, but I READ that sometimes you have to trim off the dead looking parts, mulch it well in winter, not let it stay too wet, and occasssionally divide it.  Anything there sound useful? — Signed,    Kellie My Karma Ran Over My Dogma.  It was a catastrophe! Now my dogma’s dead and my karma’s out of alignment. Get in "Knee Deep"!     The Internet Pond Society      http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/newsletter.html

Response:

Funny that you brought this up.  I too planted creeping phlox about 3-4 years ago.  I recieved a bounty of pink flowers and an evergreen spread.  It years that passes, at this time of year, large areas start dying out.  To date I have done nothing.  I have similar beds of phlox planted elsewhere and also soffer some die-out.  Just a perusal of my garden this morning made me want to cry.  Over half of the Phlox is turning brown and turning to dust (while a few weeks ago it was still green).   What should I do?  At present I shall continue to due nothing.  What is the problem … soil conditions, nematode infestation, blight … age of the culture.  I am tempted to go in and ‘thin’ it out. TTrue in RTP "Seek simplicity … then distrust it" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I planted creeping phlox 3 yrs. ago and for the first two yrs it did great its not looking that great anymore any suggestions on what to do? Should I fertilize it cut it back pull it out and replant I never realy touched what I have I just let it grow and its real thick but it looks like a lot of it is dying.

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Can’t say for sure what the phlox problem is, but I’d suspect it could be die out due to poor drainage. This year has been particularly bad. Phlox subulata like well-drained conditions- folks often grow them in rock gardens and on slopes. The foliage seems to do best when allowed to scramble over rocks.  

Response:

  I’ve grown Phlox Sublata for years on the south facing slope of a well drained rock garden and have also suffered an unusually severe die-back this season (mostly last fall and early winter).  However, this isn’t the first time and it strongly depends on phlox color and/or foliage characteristics.  I have a blue that rarely shows any die-back but after blooming it has the least impressive foliage.  The new Candy Stripe regularly blooms then flops for me and I have a bright pink-red that has barely clung to life for years.   My plan is to rebuild the rock garden with lots of compost, sand, and manure additives to my basic clay.  That’s worked before and lasts for many years.  By all means pull out the deader sections after flowering. Often you’ll find the ends of mostly brown branches have rooted near the ends and will start new and healthy plants.  If you’ve got long mostly dead branches with green growth at the ends, you might be able to encourage rooting by pinninge one or more of these branches to the a nicely prepared bit of soil with a piece of bent wire and covering it with a little soil. — Lloyd Fortney http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney/ has links to my garden, flower, flyfishing, and travel JPEG images as well as teaching, research, and stuff like that

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I’ve read that Phlox should be divided every 3(?) years to keep it from dying out.  The parent plant should be removed and you can replant it. Otherwise it can choke itself.  I’m not sure if this applies to all varieties, but at least some you should also cut back in winter. J.

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Question:

I have figured out how to use fiberoptics to backlight a chest pack.  It has no direct light to scare trout, used red light, and only needs a couple of AAA batteries.

Well done ! Do you all think that this is marketable?  I could retrofit most chest packs for under $35, which is chump change to fly fishing (or so Orvis seems to think)….

Of course it’s marketable.  I won’t buy one though.  What fun would night fishing be if you had a reliable light ? TimW

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have figured out how to use fiberoptics to backlight a chest pack.  It has no direct light to scare trout, used red light, and only needs a couple of AAA batteries. Do you all think that this is marketable?  I could retrofit most chest packs for under $35, which is chump change to fly fishing (or so Orvis seems to think)…. No, it’s too cheap and inconspicuous.  What’s the fun of buying flyfishing stuff if every yahoo can afford it and no one can see it?  I’d rather ostentatiously pull the Honda generator out of my Orvis Jeep Cherokee, crank her up so that all can hear me and run the power out to me while I’m in the stream.  That way I can use a halogen lamp to read the faxes coming in from my broker in Japan over my handheld cellular fax machine. Plus, without a direct light, who’ll be able to see me?  And even if they could, won’t a red light throw off my color coordinated vest and hat?  Sounds like a bad idea to me. Musconet

Great stuff, I love off-season :-

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Dutch government intends to forbid live bait fishing (i.e., fishing with living fish, minnows, etc.) starting January 1, 1997.  If you think this is none of your business, please read on.  Eventually, perhaps sooner than you think, this plan might restrict anyone’s freedom to fish. Not allowing live bait fishing is of course nothing new.  It is in effect in several countries in Europe and, if I am correctly informed, also in some states in the US of A.  Some fishing associations also allow only artificial bait in (some of) the waters they rent.  The reasons vary from country tot country and from place to place.  So what else is new, why should you care? What’s new is, that our government uses an ethical argument: the fish feel pain, suffer, etc.  As you might expect, our government’s current viewpoint is the result of a protracted lobby of the Dutch Animal Rights movement, which have for years argued against fishing for ethical reasons, although the scientific basis for ‘the ethical argument’ seems to be weak.  In fact, neurological evidence points in the opposite direction: fish don’t have the brain structures that are held responsible for feelings of pain and suffering in mammals. Forbidding life bait fishing for ethical reasons is alarming, because once you use an ethical argument against life bait fishing, it’s hard not to apply it to fishing in general and, consequently, forbid fishing entirely.  Of course, the long-term goal of our Animal Rights movement is just that. If fishing is no longer allowed in one country, this will surely encourage Animal Rights movements in other countries to strive for something similar. It is for this reason that I think that fishermen in other countries should care. Lots of fishermen in The Netherlands have written letters of protest to the political parties that support the government’s intention.  Letters from fishermen in other countries would also be most welcome and very much appreciated, the more the better.  We have ridiculously many political parties, but four of them really matter here: PvdA, D66, VVD, and CDA (the latter two do not have a very strong opinion on the matter, but they are among the largest parties). If you would like to support us, please send an E-mail to them.  They should be addressed as follows:                             E-mail address If you write a letter of protest, please be polite.  It wouldn’t do any harm, however, when you pointed out that you would not feel terribly at ease in a country that forbids life bait fishing and that therefore … Because I would like to know whether a protest like this can be organized on the net, I would appreciate being informed by those who do send a letter of I’ll let you know what happens. This is the first posting of this letter.  It will probably be posted by me two times more in the next two weeks. Leo Beem E-mail:

until it’s too late.We in America keep suupporting ,subconciously,politicians who have no balls to stand up to Amimal rights nonsense.Just like gun-ownership and hunting,we will become the fringe ,as the media and liberal politician will paint us .Then ultimately bans on bait will be seen as the middle ground,and then bans on hook barbs,thenbans on anything but fly fishing,then a total ban.And yes ,the fly fishermen will go along with all of this,as their exclusive sense of moral righteousness,and sportsmanship will encourage this type of political crap.     If you don’t believe me,go talk to some members of trout unlimited,who will tell you they are ethically superior in their means of sportsmanship,Of course baitfishing is considered "unsporting" and fishing with barbed hooks is "deadly to the fish".     The other example I have to offer is the so-called assault weapon.Go to a skeet match and speak to the elite shotgunners with Perazzi’s and Beretta’s.They will tell you what neanderthals those men are who own semi-auto rifles and large magazines.They will tell you they should be banned.So you see,Americans have no unity in their ranks.We will lose our outdoor heritage,as our membership continues to compromise on what they consider moral,and ethical

Response:

The Dutch government intends to forbid live bait fishing (i.e., fishing with living fish, minnows, etc.) starting January 1, 1997.  If you think this is none of your business, please read on.  Eventually, perhaps sooner than you think, this plan might restrict anyone’s freedom to fish. Not allowing live bait fishing is of course nothing new.  It is in effect in several countries in Europe and, if I am correctly informed, also in some states in the US of A.  Some fishing associations also allow only artificial bait in (some of) the waters they rent.  The reasons vary from country tot country and from place to place.  So what else is new, why should you care?  What’s new is, that our government uses an ethical argument: the fish feel pain, suffer, etc.  As you might expect, our government’s current viewpoint is the result of a protracted lobby of the Dutch Animal Rights movement, which have for years argued against fishing for ethical reasons, although the scientific basis for ‘the ethical argument’ seems to be weak.  In fact, neurological evidence points in the opposite direction: fish don’t have the brain structures that are held responsible for feelings of pain and suffering in mammals.   Forbidding life bait fishing for ethical reasons is alarming, because once you use an ethical argument against life bait fishing, it’s hard not to apply it to fishing in general and, consequently, forbid fishing entirely. Of course, the long-term goal of our Animal Rights movement is just that. If fishing is no longer allowed in one country, this will surely encourage Animal Rights movements in other countries to strive for something similar. It is for this reason that I think that fishermen in other countries should care. Lots of fishermen in The Netherlands have written letters of protest to the political parties that support the government’s intention.  Letters from fishermen in other countries would also be most welcome and very much appreciated, the more the better.  We have ridiculously many political parties, but four of them really matter here: PvdA, D66, VVD, and CDA (the latter two do not have a very strong opinion on the matter, but they are among the largest parties). If you would like to support us, please send an E-mail to them.  They should be addressed as follows:                             E-mail address If you write a letter of protest, please be polite.  It wouldn’t do any harm, however, when you pointed out that you would not feel terribly at ease in a country that forbids life bait fishing and that therefore … Because I would like to know whether a protest like this can be organized on the net, I would appreciate being informed by those who do send a letter I’ll let you know what happens. This is the first posting of this letter.  It will probably be posted by me two times more in the next two weeks. Leo Beem

Response:

Please be aware that in many states in the good old USA live bait is restricted for reasons other than cruelty. Many fish species used for bait are not indigenous to the local ecology. Introducing foreign species to certain lakes and ponds can wreak havoc and destroy the local ecology. These introduced species can thrive in ares where natural competition is not present. Many states restrict live bait for these reasons. You would be amazed how many so called sportsmen have introduced fish species into local ecologies via bait and or intentionally trying to stock and improve their local fishery. A VERY bad idea.

Response:

Question:

check out the fly fishing page at this site.  The fly fishing info changes on a monthly basis. http://www.accelerated.com  ::::::::::::::::::::<<< INTERNETWORKING THE DESKTOP ::::::::::::::::::::  John Loschky  SPRY, Inc.                          Phone: (206) 442-8225  316 Occidental Avenue South         FAX:   (206) 447-9008      Seattle, WA  98104                  http://www.spry.com  :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Response:

check out the fly fishing page at this site.  The fly fishing info changes on a monthly basis. http://www.accelerated.com

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