Question:

Good Morning to all,     I have been lerking in this room for about a month now. I really enjoy the information passed and the whit that is flung around the room. I decided to finally make myself known so that I may contribute (what little I do know)if the need arises.     I have been fishing for most of my life, but did not get into fly fishing until about 3 or 4 years ago. I tie, but not too well. Practice makes perfect though. Retired from the military and trying to make my way in the civilian sector. So far, so good. Maryland resident working with frank reid. He told me about this group. Thanks Frank!     Anyways, I look forward to reading more. Dan Mattice Sr.

If you REALLY want to see a bunch of fly fishing junkies, go on over to ROFF  (rec.outdoors.fishing.fly)   — A question is better debated and left unanswered than a question that is answered without debate. -Unknown

Response:

Dan,    Just saw this and welcome to the group.  Flytying is a wonderful diversion for those who like to experience a wider range of fly fishing activity.  Now, get back to work.  ;-)           Frank

Response:

Good Morning to all,      I have been lerking in this room for about a month now. I really enjoy the information passed and the whit that is flung around the room. I decided to finally make myself known so that I may contribute (what little I do know)if the need arises.      I have been fishing for most of my life, but did not get into fly fishing until about 3 or 4 years ago. I tie, but not too well. Practice makes perfect though. Retired from the military and trying to make my way in the civilian sector. So far, so good. Maryland resident working with frank reid. He told me about this group. Thanks Frank!      Anyways, I look forward to reading more. Dan Mattice Sr.

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Question:

Thanks very much to everyone for he responses. We’re now saturated with new information. :=) –David – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’re on  our way to Labador (from Houston) and would like to hear from anyone who has driven their rig in the Newfoundland area. Especially interested in the tricks of the route, such as ferry experience, RV campgrounds, diesel fuel availabililty, road conditions, URLs, and any quirks you can think of that the newcomer to that area should know. Rig is 33′ fiver and one-ton pickup. I’m a dejanews fan but Google has gobbled it. –David

Response:

Wallace McLean writes: Yes there is, from Blanc Sablon to St. Barbe.

Technically, you are correct; Blanc Sablon is in Quebec.  But there is only, what, 50 miles of road into Labrador.  It is very beautiful country.  My meaning was that there is no ferry from any place in Quebec you can travel to by car.  Last I knew, you can not drive to Blanc Sablon. Dave

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When we took the ferry in 1984, my understanding was that the ferry ended in Blanc Sablon, only because it was therefor an inter provincial ferry, and consequently was eligible for Federal subsidies!  Of course, the fact that there were only about four miles of road before entering Labrador was conveniently overlooked, as that sort of thing usually is here in the states. Norm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wallace McLean writes: Yes there is, from Blanc Sablon to St. Barbe. Technically, you are correct; Blanc Sablon is in Quebec.  But there is only, what, 50 miles of road into Labrador.  It is very beautiful country.  My meaning was that there is no ferry from any place in Quebec you can travel to by car.  Last I knew, you can not drive to Blanc Sablon. Dave

Response:

Wallace McLean writes: Yes there is, from Blanc Sablon to St. Barbe. Technically, you are correct; Blanc Sablon is in Quebec.  But there is only, what, 50 miles of road into Labrador.  It is very beautiful country.  My meaning was that there is no ferry from any place in Quebec you can travel to by car.  Last I knew, you can not drive to Blanc Sablon.

You can, however, take another ferry to Blanc Sablon from teh Quebec highway network at Natashquan. — http://members.xoom.com/labradorian

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Forgot to add: There is a ferry service twice a week from Lewisporte (NF) to Goose Bay, but it is a long trip and (I imagine) expensive.  It says "car", but nothing about RVs. If I was going to "do" New Foundland with an RV, I would do Nova Scotia first. It is much more interesting than Labrador.  Labrador does not have much from Baie Coumo to Lab City, and only Churchill Falls from Lab City to Goose Bay.  I am talking *nothing*.  But, Nova Scotia has much to do and see and would be less expensive.  Plus, ya don’t have to worry about gravel roads and lumber trucks.  <g  Go to the web site I’ve quoted or call the 1-800 number and they should be able to get a book to you before you leave.   Dave

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We drove to Newfoundland (from the west coast of Canada) in the summer of 1999. We took the ferry from Cape Breton, Nova Scotia to Port Aux Basques, Newfoundland. We drove the 900 kilometres to St. John’s. Just outside St. John’s is Cape Spear which is the most easterly point in the continent. The ferry from Nova Scotia had no problem with even the largest of RVs. You’ll pay quite a bit for such a long load but considering the exchange on the US dollar, it probably won’t hurt that much. By the way, how can you pull a huge fifth wheel with a 1 ton truck? I had the idea that Newfoundland was just a big rock with fishing villages on the edge. Was I wrong! The interior of the province reminded me a lot of my own province BC. We camped at a site on a lake near Pasadena, just north of Cornerbrook, which could have been almost anywhere in BC. It was gorgeous. The people are wonderful. They are very friendly and helpful. The roads are not a problem at all. I can’t speak about the availability of diesel but there are certainly lots of trucks around so it must be relatively easy to find. Coming back we took the ferry from Argentia (about 100 kilometres southwest of St. John’s) back to Nova Scotia. This ferry runs only in the summer months (starts June 22 this year) and takes about 14 hours under normal circumstances. It saves having to backtrack the 900 kilometres to Port Aux Basques. When we went there was quite a wind so they took several hours removing chains from the vehicles on the car deck and then putting chains on our rigs. That turned the trip into almost 24 hours. Be sure to make reservations for the ferry. Check out the Marine Atlantic web site at http://www.marine-atlantic.ca We haven’t been to Labrador but I see there is a ferry service from Newfoundland to Labrador. Check out http://www.gov.nf.ca/ferryservices/ for the routes. There seems to be one that goes from St. Anthony but it looks like it doesn’t start until July 1 and it doesn’t seem to take vehicles. The other route seems to be from St. Barbe in Newfoundland and it starts May 1 and takes vehicles. The long option would be to come through Quebec of course. Have a wonderful trip. Allan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’re on  our way to Labador (from Houston) and would like to hear from anyone who has driven their rig in the Newfoundland area. Especially interested in the tricks of the route, such as ferry experience, RV campgrounds, diesel fuel availabililty, road conditions, URLs, and any quirks you can think of that the newcomer to that area should know. Rig is 33′ fiver and one-ton pickup. I’m a dejanews fan but Google has gobbled it. –David

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Hi Jay, I was wondering if your the average troll or just another attention whore, It seems to me judging from your responses to people asking legitmate questions that your more of an attention whore, So which is it? (Both maybe) Regards,  Boats

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Hi Jay, I was wondering if your the average troll or just another attention whore, It seems to me judging from your responses to people asking legitmate questions that your more of an attention whore, So which is it? (Both maybe) Regards,  Boats

So – another WebTVer has all the answers!  NOT!! Tom J

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In ‘84, we went across from North Sidney, NS to Port aux Basques, and on up the West coast of Newfoundland to At. Anthony.  While up in that area, we took the ferry from St. Barbe over to Blanc Sablon, QUE.  At that time the only road from there went about 50 miles up to Red Bay, and the first thirty was even paved!  We only spent one night (Pinware River) due to the huge number of black flies (in August).  At that time, there was a lot of archeological activity going on in Red Bay.  We had an F250 pickup with a tent trailer, and there was not problem at all on the ferries. Norm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’re on  our way to Labador (from Houston) and would like to hear from anyone who has driven their rig in the Newfoundland area. Especially interested in the tricks of the route, such as ferry experience, RV campgrounds, diesel fuel availabililty, road conditions, URLs, and any quirks you can think of that the newcomer to that area should know. Rig is 33′ fiver and one-ton pickup. I’m a dejanews fan but Google has gobbled it. –David

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Now Tom. If you really knew anything about us "webtvers" you would know we’re called "Webbies", but since your a newbie I guess we’ll let it slide, Good luck with yor new computer, Regards "Boats"

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We went to Newfoundland in 1997 for three weeks.The island is large.It is about 500 miles across.You can see Labador when you are in the north end of the island.I would check it out but I am sure you can cross from there to Labrador by a ferry in that area.We had a great 3 weeks on the island and spent most of the time on the coast .I would say it as nice as BC coast with out the mountains. No problems finding a cg to stop for the night and the price was about 10 -25$ Most things cost more on the island but I would go again any time.The ferry cost me 450$ Canadian. This was for a return trip so that is why we stayed 3 weeks. I hope this helps some and have a good trip.. Lyle. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’re on  our way to Labador (from Houston) and would like to hear from anyone who has driven their rig in the Newfoundland area. Especially interested in the tricks of the route, such as ferry experience, RV campgrounds, diesel fuel availabililty, road conditions, URLs, and any quirks you can think of that the newcomer to that area should know. Rig is 33′ fiver and one-ton pickup. I’m a dejanews fan but Google has gobbled it. –David

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Rosemary Catherwood writes: You can see Labador when you are in the north end of the island.I would check it out but I am sure you can cross from there to Labrador by a ferry in that area.

What you see fron the northwest coast of New Foundland is indeed Labrador and Quebec.  A ferry runs from St. Barbe to Blanc Sabon, Quebec.  However, once there, you have only about 40 miles of road.  The ferry to Goose Bay, Labrador leaves Lewisporte, NF twice a week and is very expensive.  If it cost you $450 Canadian from Nova Scotia to NF, I should think the trip from Lewisporte to Labrador would be twice that – it is twice as far.  And, unlike New Fourndland, there is little to see/do in Labrador — except fish for big brook trout.  <g Dave

Response:

Now Tom. If you really knew anything about us "webtvers" you would know we’re called "Webbies", but since your a newbie I guess we’ll let it slide, Good luck with yor new computer,

Sonny boy, I have had a computer continuously since 1974.  How long have you been a WebTVer?  There are some great people using WebTV but there are a great many more horses rear ends – like you!! — Tom J http://www.geocities.com/aviontravelcade/ http://www.geocities.com/tomj_ga/ Are we having fun yet?

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Hi Dave, This is a trip that we enjoyed very much from coast to coast and would go again even if it cost a lot to get there.But I said I would fly there next time from Ont Canada and rent a car and do B& B when in Newfoundland and see a lot of things we had missed the first time.You will find everyone there is very helpful. and I am sure you will have a good time. Please let us know when you return what you think of the trip after your visit to the island. PS one thing I will tell you that we did not know is that before you return to the main land they wash down your rig and you are not allowed any potatoes on the return trip.I do not know  to this day why? Have a good trip . Lyle in South Ont CA. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rosemary Catherwood writes: You can see Labador when you are in the north end of the island.I would check it out but I am sure you can cross from there to Labrador by a ferry in that area. What you see fron the northwest coast of New Foundland is indeed Labrador and Quebec.  A ferry runs from St. Barbe to Blanc Sabon, Quebec.  However, once there, you have only about 40 miles of road.  The ferry to Goose Bay, Labrador leaves Lewisporte, NF twice a week and is very expensive.  If it cost you $450 Canadian from Nova Scotia to NF, I should think the trip from Lewisporte to Labrador would be twice that – it is twice as far.  And, unlike New Fourndland, there is little to see/do in Labrador — except fish for big brook trout.  <g Dave

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Rosemary Catherwood writes: Hi Dave, This is a trip that we enjoyed very much from coast to coast and would go again even if it cost a lot to get there.

(snip for brevity) Hi, Rosemary.  Actually I was answering someone else that had plans on making the trip.  I have been to NF and you are correct — it is a wonderful place to spend lots of time.  I have driven to Labrador from Quebec to Labrador City/Wabush for a float-plane flyout with my grandsons to fish for enormous brook trout.  There really is not much in Labrador, but NF is an entirely different story.  We are new to RVing, but I am planning on NF as a destination in the future.  Can’t beat the $ exchange rate either.  <g Dave Dave

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Whoops, when I mentioned that it cost $450.00(Canadian) for the ferry trip between North Sydney,Nova Scotia, and Port au Basques,Newfoundland, I neglected to say that was the price of 2 passengers,in a 26 ft. motorhome,and that we sailed from Argentia,Newfoundland on the return trip.(twice the distance on the return trip) Lyle Catherwood – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’re on  our way to Labador (from Houston) and would like to hear from anyone who has driven their rig in the Newfoundland area. Especially interested in the tricks of the route, such as ferry experience, RV campgrounds, diesel fuel availabililty, road conditions, URLs, and any quirks you can think of that the newcomer to that area should know. Rig is 33′ fiver and one-ton pickup. I’m a dejanews fan but Google has gobbled it. –David

Response:

In ‘84, we went across from North Sidney, NS to Port aux Basques, and on up the West coast of Newfoundland to At. Anthony.  While up in that area, we took the ferry from St. Barbe over to Blanc Sablon, QUE.  At that time the only road from there went about 50 miles up to Red Bay, and the first thirty was even paved!  We only spent one night (Pinware

It is paved all the way east to Red Bay, and all the way west to St. Paul’s River. From St. Paul’s River west is a gravel road under reconstruction to Old Fort Bay; NE of Red Bay the gravel highway continues to Mary’s Harbour (from where you can go to Battle Harbour National Historic District by boat), and will be extended as far as Cartwright within two years. River) due to the huge number of black flies (in August).  At that time, there was a lot of archeological activity going on in Red Bay.  We had an F250 pickup with a tent trailer, and there was not problem at all on the ferries.

– http://members.xoom.com/labradorian

Response:

We’re on  our way to Labador (from Houston) and would like to hear from anyone who has driven their rig in the Newfoundland area. Especially interested in the tricks of the route, such as ferry experience, RV campgrounds, diesel fuel availabililty, road conditions, URLs, and any quirks you can think of that the newcomer to that area should know. Rig is 33′ fiver and one-ton pickup. I’m a dejanews fan but Google has gobbled it. –David

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Well, personally, I’ve had good luck with Labradors, indeed any retriever makes a fine pet.  They’re loyal, smart (for a dog), and good companions.  Newfoundlands I haven’t had any experience with, sorry. HTH Jay — * Jay Denebeim  Moderator       rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated *

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Dave Ellis writes: We’re on  our way to Labador (from Houston) and would like to hear from anyone who has driven their rig in the Newfoundland area.

Uh, you are talking two different places.  Labrador is on the main land (north and east of Quebec), while New Foundland is an island off of the Lab coast. Labrador has one road leading in and out, and that is Rt380 from Baie Comeau to Lab City.  I would NOT recommend this route with an RV.  It is mostly gravel and the lumber trucks are very treacherous.   For info on New Foundland, e-mail addes: and phone number 1-800-563-NFLD You may find this helpful also: http://public.gov.nf.ca/tourism They will send you a nice book about the province.  Good luck. HTH.  d;0 Dave

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I have friends who drove the road in Labrador with an RV. The entered from Quebec then took the Ferry over to Newfoundland Isle’s. They went with friends who had a fifth wheel. They had no problems with the gravel road. I’ve talked to their tourist bureau and they indicate that TT’s/RV’s should not have a problem. Al

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dave Ellis writes: We’re on  our way to Labador (from Houston) and would like to hear from anyone who has driven their rig in the Newfoundland area. Uh, you are talking two different places.  Labrador is on the main land (north and east of Quebec), while New Foundland is an island off of the Lab coast. Labrador has one road leading in and out, and that is Rt380 from Baie Comeau to Lab City.  I would NOT recommend this route with an RV.  It is mostly gravel and the lumber trucks are very treacherous. For info on New Foundland, e-mail addes: and phone number 1-800-563-NFLD You may find this helpful also: http://public.gov.nf.ca/tourism They will send you a nice book about the province.  Good luck. HTH.  d;0 Dave

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Al Rolle writes: I have friends who drove the road in Labrador with an RV. The entered from Quebec then took the Ferry over to Newfoundland Isle’s. They went with friends who had a fifth wheel. They had no problems with the gravel road. I’ve talked to their tourist bureau and they indicate that TT’s/RV’s should not have a problem. Al

There is only one road that leads into Labrador and that is Rt. 389 from Baie Comeau, Quebec.  Most of the road is gravel and you will constantly be traveling with or against lumber trucks that throw up big stones when they are in front of you or when they pass you.  I have driven it three times — I go fly fishing in Labrador every July.  Rt. 389 ends in Lab City/Wabush.  If you want to go farther, you use the trans-labrador highway (#500) which ends at Goose Bay/Happy Valley.  ALL of Rt 500 is gravel, and although picturesque, it is a rough drive.  Taking a ferry (actually it is  called the iceberg cruise) from Goose Bay to New Foundland (the island) would be very expensive.  There is no ferry from Quebec to New Foundland; all the ferries run from Nova Scotia. The reason there is no ferry service to/from Quebec is that there are no roads much past Sept Isles which is way the hell away from New Foundland. From the Tourist Bureau’s book: "Marine Atlantic’s modern car ferries also accommodate RVs all year round from North Syndney, Nova Scotia to Port Aux Basques in south western New Foundland. Throughout the summer, a second ferry sails from North Sydney to Argentia, bringing you to within an hour or two of St. Johns." Dave

Response:

want to go farther, you use the trans-labrador highway (#500) which ends at Goose Bay/Happy Valley.  ALL of Rt 500 is gravel, and although picturesque, it is a rough drive.  Taking a ferry (actually it is  called the iceberg cruise) from Goose Bay to New Foundland (the island) would be very expensive.  There is no ferry from Quebec to New Foundland; all the ferries run from Nova Scotia.

Yes there is, from Blanc Sablon to St. Barbe. The reason there is no ferry service to/from Quebec is that there are no roads much past Sept Isles which is way the hell away from New Foundland.

The road goes about 300km east of Sept-Iles to Natashquan, paved the whole way. From Natashquan there is a passenger/freighter to isolated ports as far as Blanc Sablon, on which you can ship certain sized vehicles (inc. campervans) as freight. — http://members.xoom.com/labradorian

Response:

Forgot to add: There is a ferry service twice a week from Lewisporte (NF) to Goose Bay, but it is a long trip and (I imagine) expensive.  It says "car", but nothing about RVs.

Yes, you can. All types of vehicles travel on this ferry. If I was going to "do" New Foundland with an RV, I would do Nova Scotia first.

Newfoundland is one word. It is much more interesting than Labrador.  Labrador does not have much from Baie Coumo to Lab City, and only Churchill Falls from Lab City to Goose Bay.  I am talking *nothing*.  But, Nova Scotia has much to do and see and would be

Depends on your definition of "nothing". There is plenty of great hiking, canoeing, etc. less expensive.  Plus, ya don’t have to worry about gravel roads and lumber trucks.  <g  Go to the web site I’ve quoted or call the 1-800 number and they should be able to get a book to you before you leave.   Dave

– http://members.xoom.com/labradorian

Response:

Rosemary Catherwood writes: You can see Labador when you are in the north end of the island.I would check it out but I am sure you can cross from there to Labrador by a ferry in that area. What you see fron the northwest coast of New Foundland is indeed Labrador and Quebec.  A ferry runs from St. Barbe to Blanc Sabon, Quebec.  However, once there, you have only about 40 miles of road.  The ferry to Goose Bay, Labrador

Actually, you have 80km west to Old Fort Bay on the Lower North Shore; 70km paved east to Red Bay, and another 80 or 90 gravel to Mary’s Harbour beyond that. leaves Lewisporte, NF twice a week and is very expensive.  If it cost you $450 Canadian from Nova Scotia to NF, I should think the trip from Lewisporte to Labrador would be twice that – it is twice as far.  And, unlike New Fourndland,

Here are the most recent fares for the Sir Robert Bond, which connects Lewisport Nfld with Cartwright and Goose Bay, Labrador:  http://www.gov.nf.ca/ferryservices/schedules/E-bond.htm there is little to see/do in Labrador — except fish for big brook trout.  <g

Depends on your definition of "little". If you have done "little" research, and have "little" energy, imagination, or interests, you will find little to do in Labrador. You’ll find the same thing in New York or Paris. — http://members.xoom.com/labradorian

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Question:

I recommend Gary LaFontaine’s Fly Fishing the Mountain Lakes. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Most trout lakes have dragon- and damselflies in abundance so nymph imitations of those may possibly work, though warming water will get them more attention. Another possibility would be a callibaetis nymph.

Or streamers if there are some big ones in there. Baitfish and leeches. Very good suggestion on the damsels and dragons, they’re common and a substantial meal compared to a lot of other nymphs. And if someone recommends damsel nymphs or says they’re hot on the lake right now or starting to hatch or whatever, try to retrieve them toward shore because they migrate to shore and then hatch out of the water. Another tip: There’s no way to retrieve too slowly for most insect imitations in a lake. Another tip: If you fish chironomids, try them with a floating line and a very long leader to give a vertical presentation like the natural. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Deb & I are gearing up (literally) for the upcoming season and she really enjoyed fly fishing some of the local lakes.  The reason she enjoyed it so much was that she could really practice her casting, move away from people, and I did all the rowing. What I know about fly fishing lakes would rattle in a thimble.  I purchased a few books on fly fishing lakes and we have been tying up chronomids like crazy. Any you Roffian pros have any pointers for the lake fishing novices?  We hear, thru the local fly shop, that fly fishing has been pretty good at some of the lower elevation (read not frozen) lakes.  What would the trout be likely to be hitting this time of winter?  The fly shop owner thought Wolly Buggers fished on the bottom and slow might do the trick…any others? —– Padishar Creel Going through life in a constant state of confusion.

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In May, I want to try for Ounaniche, using streamers (probably Magog Smelt) at Lac Tremblant. It is my understanding that these fish are deep and my question is this. If I use a Hardy Silex and a Spey-type rod with the streamer on a short 3 – 4ft leader, do I need to add weight to the streamer or weight the tip of the line in order to keep it down? I’m not sure what will happen here as I’ve never trolled a fly in deep water before. Any advice appreciated. Thanks.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To help you out a little regarding lake fishing, often your success is best under water.  Lakes that have Cutthroat can offer up some interesting dry fly fishing on occasion.  A miller moth or proper dry fly on the surface can be exciting but fishing them a little different and with more patience can produce heart stopping strikes.  Try letting your fly just sit after it lands upon the water.  The little ‘ring’ is an attraction as it is.  Let it set for fifteen seconds before you twitch the fly or surface film nymph just an inch.  Wait five seconds and do it again. Having full sinking shooting heads and sink tips are a must.  Your leader lengths should be kept short.  Eighteen inches of butt, taper, and tippet each is all you need because you want your streamers to not lag or sag or carry long curves of action under water because they are so far removed from the main line.  A particularly wonderful but simple lake fly on 2X hooks of medium size consists of a small sprig of Marlboro Red hackle tips about a quarter inch long, a peacock herl body with grizzly hackle at the head, pulled back a bit over the body is deadly.  Cast her out and let it sink and then when you’re at the depth you want, use short three inch strips.  This simple fly is a must for those who fish lakes and ponds from tubes. Leach patterns on size 8 – 4 long shank hooks often get instant attention.  Black with Olive Green palmered hackle bodies along with a green marabou tail and variations thereof are an arsenal must.  These are especially deadly on bass.  (Big Bass) Use Chenille for your bodies.  Black bodies, black marabou overwing, olive tail but keep it short and palmered green grizzly hackle bodies can vary by changing to black and brown, believe it or not, etc.  Leach patterns pump and breath and work well in large rivers.  I think often the darker patterns are taken for muddlers at times because these streamers seem to catch bigger fish.  Use a sink product to get these fluffy babies down and working. — (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

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For trolling flies deeply , a sinking line is required. Depth is controlled by the trolling speed, and the length of line out. Rod and reel are immaterial. For deep trolling ,one  may also use a downrigger, with a normal fly-rod, although fly-line is then basically superfluous, and you might just as well use a normal spinning rod and reel.  This is often very successful. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In May, I want to try for Ounaniche, using streamers (probably Magog Smelt) at Lac Tremblant. It is my understanding that these fish are deep and my question is this. If I use a Hardy Silex and a Spey-type rod with the streamer on a short 3 – 4ft leader, do I need to add weight to the streamer or weight the tip of the line in order to keep it down? I’m not sure what will happen here as I’ve never trolled a fly in deep water before. Any advice appreciated. Thanks.

Response:

Sometimes it helps to know what fish species are in there. I know lakes where there are trout but no bass. Pike but no trout. And so on. It depends on who eats who in the food chain. In a lake with no trout but lots of smallmouth bass for example, there were crayfish remains among the shoreline rocks, so I’d use a crayfish lookalike fly and flip it near the shoreline. Not to say you couldn’t use something else but, what the heck…If you know they like hot dogs, give ‘em hot dogs! I like to fish a lake several times to get to know it. The more the better. Sometimes it takes a couple of years and a lot of listening to the local liars club but don’t necessarily believe them. Some of them wear leech patterns as decoys on their hats but their fly box is full of muddlers.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Deb & I are gearing up (literally) for the upcoming season and she really enjoyed fly fishing some of the local lakes.  The reason she enjoyed it so much was that she could really practice her casting, move away from people, and I did all the rowing. What I know about fly fishing lakes would rattle in a thimble.  I purchased a few books on fly fishing lakes and we have been tying up chronomids like crazy. Any you Roffian pros have any pointers for the lake fishing novices?  We hear, thru the local fly shop, that fly fishing has been pretty good at some of the lower elevation (read not frozen) lakes.  What would the trout be likely to be hitting this time of winter?  The fly shop owner thought Wolly Buggers fished on the bottom and slow might do the trick…any others? —– Padishar Creel Going through life in a constant state of confusion.

Response:

Deb & I are gearing up (literally) for the upcoming season and she really enjoyed fly fishing some of the local lakes.  The reason she enjoyed it so much was that she could really practice her casting, move away from people, and I did all the rowing. What I know about fly fishing lakes would rattle in a thimble.  I purchased a few books on fly fishing lakes and we have been tying up chronomids like crazy. Any you Roffian pros have any pointers for the lake fishing novices?  We hear, thru the local fly shop, that fly fishing has been pretty good at some of the lower elevation (read not frozen) lakes.  What would the trout be likely to be hitting this time of winter?  The fly shop owner thought Wolly Buggers fished on the bottom and slow might do the trick…any others? —– Padishar Creel Going through life in a constant state of confusion.

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Hi Chris, I would suggest you read and digest this site, most especially the articles by Brian Chan. http://www.bcadventure.com/adventure/angling/stillwater/index.phtml My own series of articles on chironomids is not finished, although I have been working on them for quite some time, and I will probably not bother with them now anyway, as he says it better. He also covers more techniques, and better than I could. Woolly buggers, and similar things will often work, but careful imitation and tactics will invariably prove more satisfying, and often more successful. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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Most trout lakes have dragon- and damselflies in abundance so nymph imitations of those may possibly work, though warming water will get them more attention. Another possibility would be a callibaetis nymph.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Deb & I are gearing up (literally) for the upcoming season and she really enjoyed fly fishing some of the local lakes.  The reason she enjoyed it so much was that she could really practice her casting, move away from people, and I did all the rowing. What I know about fly fishing lakes would rattle in a thimble.  I purchased a few books on fly fishing lakes and we have been tying up chronomids like crazy. Any you Roffian pros have any pointers for the lake fishing novices?  We hear, thru the local fly shop, that fly fishing has been pretty good at some of the lower elevation (read not frozen) lakes.  What would the trout be likely to be hitting this time of winter?  The fly shop owner thought Wolly Buggers fished on the bottom and slow might do the trick…any others? —– Padishar Creel Going through life in a constant state of confusion.

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To help you out a little regarding lake fishing, often your success is best under water.  Lakes that have Cutthroat can offer up some interesting dry fly fishing on occasion.  A miller moth or proper dry fly on the surface can be exciting but fishing them a little different and with more patience can produce heart stopping strikes.  Try letting your fly just sit after it lands upon the water.  The little ‘ring’ is an attraction as it is.  Let it set for fifteen seconds before you twitch the fly or surface film nymph just an inch.  Wait five seconds and do it again. Having full sinking shooting heads and sink tips are a must.  Your leader lengths should be kept short.  Eighteen inches of butt, taper, and tippet each is all you need because you want your streamers to not lag or sag or carry long curves of action under water because they are so far removed from the main line.  A particularly wonderful but simple lake fly on 2X hooks of medium size consists of a small sprig of Marlboro Red hackle tips about a quarter inch long, a peacock herl body with grizzly hackle at the head, pulled back a bit over the body is deadly.  Cast her out and let it sink and then when you’re at the depth you want, use short three inch strips.  This simple fly is a must for those who fish lakes and ponds from tubes. Leach patterns on size 8 – 4 long shank hooks often get instant attention.  Black with Olive Green palmered hackle bodies along with a green marabou tail and variations thereof are an arsenal must.  These are especially deadly on bass.  (Big Bass) Use Chenille for your bodies.  Black bodies, black marabou overwing, olive tail but keep it short and palmered green grizzly hackle bodies can vary by changing to black and brown, believe it or not, etc.  Leach patterns pump and breath and work well in large rivers.  I think often the darker patterns are taken for muddlers at times because these streamers seem to catch bigger fish.  Use a sink product to get these fluffy babies down and working. — (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

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Question:

Anyone have any experience flyfishing in PR or Vieques? We’re headed there shortly and need any info you guys & ladies might have. Thanks, Bill Way

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Im told that Vieques can be quite a blast. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone have any experience flyfishing in PR or Vieques? We’re headed there shortly and need any info you guys & ladies might have. Thanks, Bill Way

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I spent a couple of months down there in the US Navy and I had a blast with the baracuda, gar, croaker, and tarpon. All over the area. You will love it. make sure you have some braided leaders or wire of some sorts. ‘Cudas bite right through it. Also need som 10-20 pound leaders and tippet material. The best colors were blue/white and chartreuse/white. Others worked but not as well. I caught many other species of fish, but I couldn’t tell you what they were. Hope you enjoy the fishing. There are some flats to chose from as well as some good accessible deeper areas. Good fishing Gordo When in doubt, toss ‘em a fly. Who knows, may be your day. Gordo

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Interested in fly fishing and fishing Puerto Rico? See www.fishinginpuertorico.com for more information. Mark V. <’< – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I spent a couple of months down there in the US Navy and I had a blast with the baracuda, gar, croaker, and tarpon. All over the area. You will love it. make sure you have some braided leaders or wire of some sorts. ‘Cudas bite right through it. Also need som 10-20 pound leaders and tippet material. The best colors were blue/white and chartreuse/white. Others worked but not as well. I caught many other species of fish, but I couldn’t tell you what they were. Hope you enjoy the fishing. There are some flats to chose from as well as some good accessible deeper areas. Good fishing Gordo When in doubt, toss ‘em a fly. Who knows, may be your day. Gordo

Before you buy.

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Question:

Geeze, could you html-prone people switch back to plain text?

[snip] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – torn my face!&nbsp; You are indeed talented beyond the finest thesaursis.’s ssssssssssssss&nbsp; I.e. PLURAL BABY!&nbsp; Plural. <br&nbsp; <p– <brMr. G. <br’all’s fair with fur or feather’ <p<A HREF="http://www.gink.com"http://www.gink.com</A <br<A HREF="http://www.rodbuilding.com"http://www.rodbuilding.com</A <br<A HREF="http://www.xink.com"http://www.xink.com</A <br509-243-4100 or 5500 <br&copy; 1999 by George Gehrke <br&nbsp;</html

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For the traditionalists among you. As I was walking all alane, a heard twa anglers a makkin mane, the ane unto the ither did say oh, whaur shal we gang and fish the day oh, whaur shall we gang and fish the day, A dinna care whaur we seek delight, wi ma Black Raven as black as night, yon fush may rise so sly it may oh, this night a

Question:

        I’m a beginner spending a week at Lake George, on the s platte near 11 mile canyon. Would sure appreciate suggestions on where to fish and what they’ll likely be eating.         Good local shops forflies and advice would be great also.                         Thanks in advance,                                         Mac

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   I’m a beginner spending a week at Lake George, on the s platte near 11 mile canyon. Would sure appreciate suggestions on where to fish and what they’ll likely be eating.    Good local shops forflies and advice would be great also.                    Thanks in advance,                                    Mac

Mac, you may have seen my post "South Platte Cheesman Canyon:Alert!" I spoke of how I felt the fishing has declined in recent years. Anyway, I too was once a novice and I learned to fish by getting many tips from guides and just very friendly seasoned fly fishermen. At any rate there is a book that I highly recommend called:"Fly Fishing the South Platte River" By: Roger Hill*. This book if digested properly will be an invaluble source of information. Also, I recommend seeing Dick Johnson at the "Flies & Lies" fly shop in Deckers,Colorado. Dick always seems to know what they’re biting on and has everything you need to reel them in.The afore mentioned book is also available at Dick’s shop. Nymphing may be best I think because that’s where the trout seem to be most of the time. For starters use: San Juan worms size:#16 in earth tone. RS-2’s:#18-#20 olive green and gray. Brassies:#18-#24. Pheasant-tail nymphs:#18-#22. Maybe some Miracle nymphs and pupa’s in smaller sizes as well. Fish them in tandum with a couple of split shots and two strike indicators approximately 4-5ft. above your 1st fly. Best of luck, Mac and don’t forget to "Catch and Release." Sincerely, Cliff *A portion of the proceeds from the sales of this book will be donated to Colorado Trout Unlimited. "Best of angling" friends…..

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Question:

Does anyone have a suggestion for spring Bluegill patterns? Thanks!

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Does anyone have a suggestion for spring Bluegill patterns? Thanks!

About the best source for panfish fly patters is: Stewart, Dick.  Flies for bass & panfish /  1st ed.  Intervale, NH : Northland Press ; New York, NY : Distributed by Lyons & Burford, c1992.  v, 80, [7] p. : col. ill. ; 29 cm. If that’s not locally available, her are some suggestions: The traditional favorites are various rubber legged sinking flies with names like ‘Brim killer" and so on.  A simple, efective and easy to tie fly of this sort that I use a great deal is as follows: Lightly weight a #8 or 10 nymph (or baitholder) hook with lead wire. Tie in a lenght of medium black (or olive, hot pink, white, etc.) chenelle and wind to front making a "fat" body.  Tie in two long (2") strands of rubber hackle (white, black or to match body color) in the center, and pull the 4 ends back.  Wrap in a head, and whip finish.  Trim the rubber hackles to about twice the lenght of the fly.   Other simple sinking flies that work well for Bluegill are wooly worms, gold ribbed hare’s ear nymphs, peacock herl bodies with black or brown tail and wet fly hackle, black gant, bee patterns, small streamers, small wooly buggers, & mini-jigs. For surface bugs, the traditional cork poppers – sneakey Peets, pan pops, etc., are very good, but not worth tying given their cost vs. the time to make them.  Small (6 to 10#) hair bugs are good, and if you want to use dry flies, irresistibles or other deer hair body flies hold up well, as do hoppers, mudlers, etc. Basically, amuse yourself.  If you like it, the bluegill will too.   —

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Does anyone have a suggestion for spring Bluegill patterns? Thanks!

On the surface I have used small hard bodied poppers #10/12 in black or yellow and hair wing dry flies like a Humpy or Irresistible #10/12.  Under water I have had good luck with a black wet fly.  A little wooly worm, soft hackle fly or nymph #10/12. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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Does anyone have a suggestion for spring Bluegill patterns? Thanks!

I have found the Pass Lake pattern to be very effective for spring Bluegills.

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Does anyone have a suggestion for spring Bluegill patterns? Thanks!

A black beadhead wooly bugger fished at sundown, and right after, did the trick for me today.

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I admit I may be missing out on something, but I have literally only used one fly for panfish and caught hundreds over the years: a tiny yellow cork/balsa popper! Throughout the summer, I have never felt the need to fish underwater, as bluegill are 100% willing 100% of the time to savage a surface fly. At least, this is the case around the mid-Atlantic region. I _always_ catch them right along the edges of rivers and streams, in the shade under the banks. Scott (who sometimes believes fishing with wet flies is a glorified form of bait fishing!)

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        Jack Ellis (author of The Sunfishes) and I publish a newsletter every month that is devoted entirely to warmwater fly fishing (esp. bluegills).  Anybody who’d like to receive a couple of free samples just needs to email me their postal address and full name.  We feature patterns and tying tips in each issue.                                                 Brian

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Bivisibles work great!!  Use soft hackles on a size 12 or 14 and fish as a wetfly.  Quick inch retrieves with pauses between seem to really excite gills.  This is a favorite technique (of mine) in weedy ponds.   Color preference varies with light conditions. DBZ

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writes: Does anyone have a suggestion for spring Bluegill patterns? Thanks!

   I haven’t fished for bluegills for 25 years, and rather miss them.  My experience: on the spawning beds, nearly anything works.  In the summer, when the fish are scattered and lying deeper, two patterns really worked well — black gnat (#10 or so) with or without the wings, and a sort of spider that the local hardware store sold for two bits which had a soft vinyl body (like those Creepy Crawlies that kids make) and rubber legs. Crappies seem to like larger flies, esp. tinsel bodied patterns, and light, bright colors, yellow, white, pink.  Bluegills seemed more interested in buggy, naturalistic colors, # 10 or smaller.  The vinyl-bodied bug (a slow sinker) was effective at least partly because the fish didn’t spit it out.  See if you can borrow the neighbor kid’s Mattell machine, perhaps?   — Kilchis

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: Does anyone have a suggestion for spring Bluegill patterns? Thanks! I tie a large elk hair caddis(size 10 or 12), tan or florescent body, furnace hackle and a gold rib.  Use about twice as much wing as normal, coat the clipped head with Sally Hansens and you have a fly that dives pulling a lot of air under with the over large wing. Good luck, Bob Capistrant

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tw Does anyone have a suggestion for spring Bluegill patterns? Thanks! i like to use a threadfin shad, maybe size 10-12. it is a very natural minnow imitation which in springtime is larger than the current year-class fry, but smaller than the previous year-class. that makes it a very tempting morsel both for crappies and the larger bluegills. i find that the smaller bluegills will eagerly go after small bugs (nymphs, gnats, etc) but will be a leetle more hesitant about attacking a minnow. hence the streamer seems to work well for mixed panfish beds (i.e. crappies, bluegills, in several year classes). but the threadfin shad is expensive! 2-3$ per. does anybody have a recipe for it? it would be great if i could manufacture them myself. i suppose the reason for the high price is that it has an epoxy body (???). it has a tiny tuft of marabou tail. the body has 3 black spots on each side. the body is silvery, dark back, light belly. the good news is that i only need 2-3 of them each spring, since each one will catch about 50 fish before it disintegrates. ra. — Richard Atkins              Phone: (612) 951-7339           Honeywell Technology Center FAX:   (612) 951-7438 MN65-2200     3660 Technology Drive                                      

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Does anyone have a suggestion for spring Bluegill patterns? Thanks!

Tom: Here’s a suggestion on something called a "Pus Fly" (don’t blame me, I didn’t name it).  I read about it on the wall of Jene Hughes’ fly shop in Des Moines, the 2nd. Ave. Bait Shop, and have been using it for two seasons now. Use a size 8-12 3x nymph hook and chartreuse thread.  Tie in a piece of bead chain so the hook rides upside down.  Tie the chain "eyes" about a quarter of an inch back from the eye of the hook.  Tie in a short tail of chartreuse marabou, and then tie a stubby body of some sort of chartreuse material (I’ve used chenille, ice chenille, body wool, and even floss) to just behind the bead eyes.   Tie in one or two turns of chartreuse or green hackle.  Finish by building cross-tying around the bead eyes and then tapering a kind of long, sloping nose down to the hook eye.  Coat the nose fairly heavily with head cement (you’ll catch a LOT of fish on each fly).  The finished fly has a little resemblance to a Crazy Charlie bonefish fly. You can also tie them in purple, black, orange, and white (sort of my descending order of preference). My most effective way to fish it is anywhere from 18" to 4 feet under a fair-size bass or bluegill popper.  The popper acts as a strike indicator but also can catch a lot of fish on its own. The ice just went out on our farm ponds about three weeks ago, and I’ve already caught several dozen pretty nice ‘gills on these flies.  They seem to work particularly well during early spring and late fall, but will work all year. Enjoy, Bob

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Question:

I’m in the market for a good 5 wt. rod and have looked at the GLoomis GL3 and IMX models.  I have not had an opportunity to cast either yet, but was wondering if people thought the IMX was worth the extra bucks. I can pick up a GL3 for $CDN 265 and the IMX for $CDN 395.  What are your thoughts? Paul Keywords:

We’d buy the GL3 for your first (good) rod. It’s tougher, it won’t cast as well but it will certainly send a 90 foot line. The IMX is more expensive and I enjoy the extra punch but I’m not sure you will notice a big difference if you havent done a lot of casting. Dennis & Geroge Altantic Fly Fishing School Brookfield NS, Canada   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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I’m in the market for a good 5 wt. rod and have looked at the GLoomis GL3 and IMX models.  I have not had an opportunity to cast either yet, but was wondering if people thought the IMX was worth the extra bucks. I can pick up a GL3 for $CDN 265 and the IMX for $CDN 395.  What are your thoughts? Paul Keywords:

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Paul, Don’t buy without casting the rod.  And if you cast both and cannot tell the difference, well. . . .   Phone the Loomis Rep and ask how you can try out the rods.  S/he should be happy to oblige.  BTW, if you want to spend money, take a look at T&T or a Scott rod. Cheers – Erik

: I’m in the market for a good 5 wt. rod and have looked at : the GLoomis GL3 and IMX models.  I have not had an opportunity : to cast either yet, but was wondering if people thought the : IMX was worth the extra bucks. I can pick up a GL3 for $CDN 265 : and the IMX for $CDN 395.  What are your thoughts? : Paul : Keywords: — Burnaby, BC

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Question:

: : or, a newbie is, in the words of Howell Raines in his epic "Fly fishing : : through the midlife crisis", an advocate of the "Redneck Way". : I might be wrong, though and I would like to hear opinions about the : book.  Does Raines know anything about fish?  

Rick- I have to confess that I did not like the book.  Actually struggled to make it to the end.  If I wanted to read a New York Times political editorial, I would have bought the newspaper.  I wasn’t expecting a book "about flyfishing", but I wasn’t looking for a political diatribe either. And it wasn’t just the political point of view; I thought he came across as a whiner. What finally got me the most, however, was the statement he makes in describing his one trip west to fish (actually, I suspect it was his only trip out of the Washington Beltway up to that point in time).  He says that the great rivers of Wyoming are the Gallatin, Madison and Yellowstone!  Then he says that the Snake is "glorious, but "becomes really great when it crosses into Idaho and becomes two rivers; the Idaho Snake and  the Henry’s Fork" (close paraphrase). Give me a break!  All these rivers (except the Snake and Henry’s Fork) are, of course, primarily Montana rivers.  Even though the Madison and Yellowstone originate in Yellowstone Park and the Gallatin may  have headwaters in Wyoming, no one ever says "Let’s go to Wyoming to fish the famous Gallatin and Madison, etc. "   Moreover, the Snake doesn’t go from Wyoming to Idaho to "become" anything.  I wrote to Raines and told him he needed a geography lesson.  He sent back a letter saying that he had gotten the information from a book that I have never heard of and have never been able to find in any flyshop or library.   BTW, Raines was in Montana fishing the Madison (that great Wyoming river) with his girlfriend a week or so ago.  I asked one of his guides whether he was a good flyfisherman and he said that is girlfriend is pretty good. Perhaps the name of his book should have been Flyfishing Through the Midlife Crisis With a New Girlfriend. If you look at the book as the story of a boy growing up and his relationship with his father, and if Raines had kept it at that without trying to make it a political statement, the book might have been worth reading (overlooking the geographical gaffs). That’s my opinion, but I have talked to others (and read views expressed on this newsgroup from folks) who liked the book.  That’s one of the great things about books, everyone reads them and sees something different. Lyman Hughes Ennis, MT Dallas, TX

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It was obvious Raines had limited experience on the water and that he was cashing in on the post "A River Runs Through It" period.  It didn’t seem like I was going to get much from the book. I might be wrong, though and I would like to hear opinions about the book.  Does Raines know anything about fish?   —

Sure, Raines rode the wave on ARRTI, and about every guide, rod company, line company, magazine publisher, fly fishing "celebrity", and clothing manufacturer in the business.  Does he know anything about fish?  Well, methinks he does!  Maybe not as much as some people, but, the book is about a man learning to fly fish as he goes through his mid-life crisis. He doesn’t have to know alot.  He isn’t trying to teach any fly fishing tactics, or how to present a drag free drift.  For my money, it is a lot better than anything Gierach has done, and I have read all of his books. I think his perspective as fly fishing as an important hobby, rather than the way he makes his living is refreshing in a world of all too many professional fishermen. It is a good book, but it leans heavily on politics.  If you are a conservative, you might not like to read about a liberal reporters opinions on the Reagan-Bush years. But it also weaves fish stories into every facet of life, much as we do in this group Daren C. Valentine

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: : or, a newbie is, in the words of Howell Raines in his epic "Fly fishing : : through the midlife crisis", an advocate of the "Redneck Way". : I might be wrong, though and I would like to hear opinions about the : book.  Does Raines know anything about fish?   I read the book, and liked it…mostly because I was raised in the "Redneck Way".  I doubt that Raines knows much about fly fishing.  He was raised to catch and kill as many fish as possible, using big hooks, strong line, stiff bait casting rods, and things like worms and chicken livers.  So was I.  That’s the "Redneck Way". He took up fly fishing and learned that good company, beautiful water, and the quiet elegance of our sport is more important than catching fish.  These things help you be at peace with the world, rather than in competition with it, which is important when facing the reality of our individual mortality.  "Keeping the black dog (death) at bay" is how he phrased it. I doubt that he knew much about fly fishing…other than how it helped him face death.  But that’s something, isn’t it? — Laboratory for Applied Logic    Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho             www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster

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Per the previous discussions, many of us still believe Cutts are for 1) Newbies who don’t know how to fish well 2) Guides, who can easily give their clients a 50 fish day,  or 3) those too lazy or disinterested to learn Entomology and like sz. 10 attractor flies. Cutts have their place, but generally, when other species are available, not with serious fly fisherman who like the challenge Cutts do not offer.

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: Per the previous discussions, many of us still believe Cutts are for 1) : Newbies who don’t know how to fish well 2) Guides, who can easily give : their clients a 50 fish day,  or 3) those too lazy or disinterested to : learn Entomology and like sz. 10 attractor flies. Cutts have their place, : but generally, when other species are available, not with serious fly : fisherman who like the challenge Cutts do not offer. Well, this is a provocative post.  Please explain to me how you avoid those "pesky" cutthroats.  Perhaps move to a less clean river where they have died off? I disagree with you.  A large fish is a large fish.  All large fish have survived more than a year or two and are frequently the brightest in that stretch of the river.  Admittedly, a bright trout is barely smart enough to host a popular television talk show, but it is a competitive world in the stream and the craftier fish eat better than the Rikki Lakes of the river. I fish often in a couple of rivers that have mixed cutt and bow populations.  I’ve never noticed that the bows could be found in the better locations.  In fact, it is usually the big cutts that are in the best locations and occasionally I find a bow.  My experience is that bows seem to do a lot more bottom hunting than surface activity.  I prefer surface activity. I would love to hear your reasons behind your opinions.  And I would be happy to host you on a river so you could show me some of the fine points of selective fishing and entomology.  I’ll tell you what.  I’ll buy you a beer for every bow you catch and you buy me a beer for every cutt you catch.  Deal? Rick — T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.  

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Rick:  I don’t know if John is going to take you up or not, but sure sounds good to me.  However, at one beer per fish, the fishing better be slow or I won’t make it for long.  Be fun trying though. Seriously, on the cutthroat discussion.  Where cutts are native, they’re a mighty important fish to me.  I don’t know whether they’re the smartest fish in the world — I’ve had mixed experiences with them as I’ve had with every other species of trout.  But they are native to many waters and beautiful fish.  With over a half-century under my belt, I’m not exactly a newbie and certainly not a guide — at least a professional one.   Still feel like a newbie, though — at least on my better days.  And I sure don’t want to lose that feeling — ever. Dick Hubbard

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The Sea-Run Cutts that I have been catching will stand up to any rainbow of the same size.  I caught about a 14 incher last night that jump more than once to show us his size and made my reel scream like every fly-fisherman wants.  Hearing that reel go tells me that these Cutthroat where a blast.

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I’ve been hesitant to weigh in on this, since I’m a newbie and fish primarilly in wild cutt territory.  But… I caught my first real (ie non-trivial) cutt a few weeks ago: 18 inches and fat.  I knew it was a big fish from the moment it took the fly.  But it didn’t FIGHT.  It just PULLED a while, then turned over and laid there.  I was expected a second rush after he turned over, but it never came.  The fish drifted aimlessly into the net. I was disappointed. On the other hand, it was a beautiful fish, caught in a beautiful river, on a fly I tied myself, on a rod I built myself.  So it wasn’t a total loss. — Laboratory for Applied Logic    Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho             www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster

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: I’ve been hesitant to weigh in on this, since I’m a newbie and fish : primarilly in wild cutt territory.  But… : On the other hand, it was a beautiful fish, caught in a beautiful river, : on a fly I tied myself, on a rod I built myself.  So it wasn’t a total : loss. This is a newbie?  He ties his own flies, builds his own rods, and catches 18+ inch fish.  What constitutes a newbie? : — : Laboratory for Applied Logic  Dept. of Computer Science : University of Idaho           www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster Charley

Response:

I was disappointed. — Laboratory for Applied Logic        Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho         www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster

I too am a little hesitant to wade into this discussion.  (The pun was intended.) First, James I can’t believe that you would complain about catching an 18" fish.  I wish I had your problems. Second, I lived in West Yellowstone for 4 years.  I used to visit the Park regularly and have fished a number of the rivers and lakes throughout.  I have fished at times where the Yellowstone Cutthroat could be caught on just about anything.  It’s as if the fish just wanted to eat and didn’t care what type of bug it was eating.  Then there have been even more times when the fish would not even look at a fly.  I’d empty my box trying to find that magic pattern.  So, to those of you who have the 40 fish days on Slough Creek, count your lucky stars and be thankful.  Because those days don’t come often enough. -Bill IBM, Boulder, CO

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | : I’ve been hesitant to weigh in on this, since I’m a newbie and fish | : primarilly in wild cutt territory.  But… | | : On the other hand, it was a beautiful fish, caught in a beautiful river, | : on a fly I tied myself, on a rod I built myself.  So it wasn’t a total | : loss. | | This is a newbie?  He ties his own flies, builds his own rods, and | catches 18+ inch fish.  What constitutes a newbie? | | Charley    I also consider myself to be a "Newbie", even though I tie my own flies, built my own rod, and have landed an 18" trout.  My flies are very nice, my rod is flawless, but my technique and knowledge are incomplete.  Many people are good craftsmen (women too), and get lucky with the trout on occasion, but just aren’t experts yet.   I suppose though, for the sake of general discussion, that "Newbies" should be defined as: Those who are beginning to learn how to flyfish, have not yet built or tied any equipment, and have never landed anything bigger than their foot.

"Newbies" are anybody who realizes that they still have something to learn about flyfishing! Tim

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Those who are beginning to learn how to flyfish, have not yet built or tied any equipment, and have never landed anything bigger than their foot.

I’m a newbie, having converted to FF in both sweet and salt water in the past year, but I *have* caught something bigger than my foot. (Striped bass are bigger than trout, what can I say?).

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Weighing back in…… I consider a newbie anyone who requires context before data. Put another way, if I can tell someone to use a PT nymph with a twist retrieve and let it go at that, this is not a newbie. When I get a puzzled expression and have to add, "A beadhead PT is a brown nymph with a gold beadhead and a twist retrieve is bringing it back with just a hand twist– a few inches at a time", that’s a newbie. When a newbie starts feeling comfortable with the terminology and contributes his/her own observations to the discussion, they have graduated to ??.  Something between expert or master and newbie.                       Why does it matter?  Well, it doesn’t.  Except, if I know that a person isn’t a newbie, I can dump a lot more information in a brief encounter streamside, because I don’t have to be care- full to get into enough detail.  Course, regional knowledge is the achilles heal of this argument.  I’ve met many anglers new to an area I’m familiar with who require detail on the geography even though they are approaching expert on the culture of fly fishing. God, I love a purely philosophical argument every now and then! Charley

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: | : I’ve been hesitant to weigh in on this, since I’m a newbie … : | This is a newbie?  He ties his own flies, builds his own rods, and : | catches 18+ inch fish.  What constitutes a newbie? :   I suppose though, for the sake of general discussion, that "Newbies" should : be defined as: Those who are beginning to learn how to flyfish, have not yet : built or tied any equipment, and have never landed anything bigger than their : foot. Fair question.  Here’s what I had in mind:  I’ve been fishing for less than two years, and have been on the stream for less than 30 days total (only four days on a GOOD stream).  Unfortunately, I’m kinda neurotic. So I jumped into the sport with both feet: tied leaders, tied flies, and built a rod.   At least I didn’t quit my job and leave my wife and kids to fish every day…though the thought has crossed my mind. — Laboratory for Applied Logic    Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho             www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster

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Another thought… A "newbie" is a nymphal fisherman, hiding under a rock fully aware that he or she is ugly as sin an likely to be eaten up if he or she strays too far into the current of modern fly fishing (a "PT"??? what the hell’s that???) Eventually, we emerge and shed our clumsy shucks—those bad habits we accumulated in our solitude.  It’s kinda painful, but we make a public display of our pretty new stuff right there on the surface (wanna see my rod?) for all to see. But we’re still a little wet (behind the ears), so we need a little time to dry off. Then we gracefully transform into something magnificent, rising in the light with beauty and grace (it takes my breath away to see Doug Swisher approach, cast to, and land a big rainbow on a video tape…with I could do that). We acheive union with the stream, the trout, and the insects for a brief time…teaching some others what we know if we’re fortunate.  Then, after what seems only a day, we die. — Laboratory for Applied Logic    Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho             www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster

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Another thought…gawd this is a rich thread… A newbie is someone who casts a big royal coachman or wooly worm into the water…anywhere…while watching the line and rod: "Concentrate! Wait for the backcast to straighten out!  Damn, need to cast a little farther!  Quick, re-cast that sucker!" A more eperienced person is more careful with fly and presentation: "Let’s see, a puddle cast with a PMD just behind that big rock should do the trick.  There it goes!" The expert: "What a lovely day.  I’ll catch THAT big fish over there, then THAT one.  This fly seems about right.  There."  All the while instictively stalking the fish from just the right place, eyes on the fish, with a plan for fishing the whole pool or run unconciously ready to execute. — Laboratory for Applied Logic    Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho             www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster

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Pondering the "NEWBIE" While "Newbies" can, and often do ask frustrating questions, use incorrect terminology, and make blunders that "experts" have long forgotten as being building blocks in their own education . . .  these "Newbies" have a zest, a fresh outlook, and a keen wonder about their endeavor that I have found is sometimes missing in the outlook of "so-called experts." I have a friend and mentor who is a retired doctor, now one of the best fly-tiers and guides in the surrounding five state region. Doc is one of those rare "experts" who gets more excited by my accomplishments than in his own personal fishing achievements. It is a delight to be with him on a stream, and see his excitement for me, as if he was the one who had just stalked that rising rainbow and landed him. Yes, I’m a "Newbie," and I believe that Doc gets a real kick out of looking at fly fishing thru my eyes . . . maybe he’s reliving some of those old "first time" accomplishments. I’m old enough now to know that being a "Newbie" is nothing to be ashamed of, in fact, it’s a treat to be constantly enjoying the newness of each first time successful endeavor. I haven’t felt this excited about any hobby or sport . . . well, I can’t remember how long its been. So, I for one relish this "Newbiness"! It’s exhilirating! And to have an "Expert" like Doc to share this "newness" with makes it twice as much fun. "Newbies Forever!" Bob Vorel

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  | : I’ve been hesitant to weigh in on this, since I’m a newbie and fish  | : primarilly in wild cutt territory.  But…  |  | : On the other hand, it was a beautiful fish, caught in a beautiful river,  | : on a fly I tied myself, on a rod I built myself.  So it wasn’t a total  | : loss.  |  | This is a newbie?  He ties his own flies, builds his own rods, and  | catches 18+ inch fish.  What constitutes a newbie?  |  | Charley     I also consider myself to be a "Newbie", even though I tie my own flies,  built my own rod, and have landed an 18" trout.  My flies are very nice, my  rod is flawless, but my technique and knowledge are incomplete.  Many people  are good craftsmen (women too), and get lucky with the trout on occasion, but  just aren’t experts yet.    I suppose though, for the sake of general discussion, that "Newbies" should  be defined as: Those who are beginning to learn how to flyfish, have not yet  built or tied any equipment, and have never landed anything bigger than their  foot.    Therefore, Mr.Foster and I should consider ourselves to have graduated from  Flyfishing school.  Now if we can just get a job…  Erik Sutton  Gresham, Oregon

A" newbie" is a person that flyfishes that thinks he has to use a 500$ graphite rod,Orvis everything, a 1,000$ vise to tye, and a Jeep.They also tend to think that knowledgable anglers and flyfishing shop staff and/or guides owe them their lifelong earned knowledge for free. A "beginning angler" is a person that takes the time to learn and trys to help their more experienced peers  any way he can to try to learn about this resource.He cares about the rivers and lakes.He cares about the fish and their habitat.This is a philosophy of a way of life for him.He respects his teachers even after he has perhaps exceeded their ability,if only because he wouldn’t have had they not taught them. I learned to tye under the tuteledge of a great commercial tyer/guide,I still consider myself his student- –after 20 years–and give him all the respect he deserves even though we don’t see eye to eye on a great many issues anymore.I still consider him a great spirit just for having gave me this great gift. We go 2,3 ,or 4 years without seeing one another even though we live miles apart but when we do its almost like close blood relatives caring for each other.I would do anything for that man if he needed to help. This is what it seems a great many "newbies"have forgotten or don’t understand.That this is a philosophy of life, not a meat chasing quest for the biggest fish or the most fish.Or I am better than you. I can no longer tye or fish due to injuries sustained in Alaska,and it occurs to me that a great many of you "flyfisherman" today can’t either.Oh sure, you can cast and you can be on the river.But your not fishing,your competing with your demons and your egos and other people just like you.  "That mans name"is Bob Sheirholtz.                           very truly, Davy

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A newbie as a person who still thinks that Flyfishing is about catching fish. or, a newbie is, in the words of Howell Raines in his epic "Fly fishing through the midlife crisis", an advocate of the "Redneck Way". Mike Ray

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: A newbie as a person who still thinks that Flyfishing is about catching : fish. I think you lost me here.  If fishing is not about catching fish…what the hell is it about?  Granted, it is great to be smack dab in the middle of a beautiful place…but fishing is much more fun when one catches fish.  Isn’t it? : or, a newbie is, in the words of Howell Raines in his epic "Fly fishing : through the midlife crisis", an advocate of the "Redneck Way". OK, now I got you.  You are under the influence of this fishing "master".  I admit I have not read his book, but for good reason.  I watched an hour of television when Charlie Rose, who can pull information from people as easily as Powerbait falls from a bass fishermans pocket, interviewed Raines and tried to talk fishing.  It was obvious Raines had limited experience on the water and that he was cashing in on the post "A River Runs Through It" period.  It didn’t seem like I was going to get much from the book. I might be wrong, though and I would like to hear opinions about the book.  Does Raines know anything about fish?   — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.

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and have never landed anything bigger than their foot.< I think this is unfair…..  I hve been flyfishing for 30 years, and I seldom catch trout as large as my foot (which is only an 11-D, BTW).  This is because I live in PA, and fish wild trout waters where there are only one or two fish the size of my foot in the entire watershed…..  I have caught many pale stockies as big as both my feet, however…..:)

I must concur, and let me add that the best fishing I have ever done was in a stream 6 to 8 feet wide.  The most beautiful Cutthroats and no people.  Couldn’t have asked for a better day. And I would say I could be happy never catching fish bigger than my foot if all my days could be on pristine streams. -Eric

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"Newbies" are anybody who realizes that they still have something to learn about flyfishing! Tim

  I guess that covers just about everybody

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; Another thought…gawd this is a rich thread… ; ; A newbie is someone who casts a big royal coachman or wooly worm into ; the water…anywhere…while watching the line and rod: "Concentrate! ; Wait for the backcast to straighten out!  Damn, need to cast a little ; farther!  Quick, re-cast that sucker!" ; ; A more eperienced person is more careful with fly and presentation: ; "Let’s see, a puddle cast with a PMD just behind that big rock should do ; the trick.  There it goes!" ; ; The expert: "What a lovely day.  I’ll catch THAT big fish over there, ; then THAT one.  This fly seems about right.  There."  All the while ; instictively stalking the fish from just the right place, eyes on the ; fish, with a plan for fishing the whole pool or run unconciously ready ; to execute. The master:  "What a lovely day." — archer — Archer Sully Stop Casting Porosity

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: A "newbie" is a nymphal fisherman, hiding under a rock fully aware that : he or she is ugly as sin an likely to be eaten up if he or she strays : too far into the current of modern fly fishing (a "PT"??? what the : hell’s that???) [snip] Sooo… I guess you are saying you are like a San Juan Worm?   Nothing but an orange piece of fluff… — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.

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"Newbies" are anybody who realizes that they still have something to learn about flyfishing! Tim

 "What I do know is that I don’t know…."    Every fly I tie, every cast I make, every fish I hook and every landing I perform is a new and different experience from the previous. Isn’t it experience (learning) that provides us with knowledge? If I ever reach the point of all knowing, my interest will fade. God take me when that happens. Have fun TEM

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Question:

I,ll be in Missoula May 5-12.  Whenever I get to Montana I like to make the best of it! I have never fished there in early May.  What can I expect?

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Early may can be an excellent ime for our rivers. As long as the runoff hasn’t started, which is usually late may, there will be dry fly activity as well as streamer and nymph fishing. One of my favorite hatches at that time is the Skwala hatch, an olive stonefly.Also there will be Ameletus, a large black mayfly. If you like streamer fishing, there will be plenty of opportunities to fish large nymphs and streamers to imitate the salmonfly which would be hatching within two to four weeks of when you plan to be there. I’m a local guide and would be glad to offer any advice. Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson

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