Question:

Any thoughts by anyone as to what (sometimes) works there, if anything-ever, would be MOST appreciated.

Bob, Best fishing is in low light conditions….dawn, dusk/dark, rain. (refer back to my ‘Fishing in the rain’ post, the location was the flat water below the Y-Pool.)  In daylight, small flies on 7X/8X tippets will work when the trout are feeding. Sight fishing works much better than using an indicator. Many times the trout simply don’t feed during daylight. If you get too frustrated, go downstream and play with the little rainbows…..they feed all the time. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

……back channel me and I will type it for you…

Oh man, this place is getting REALLY disgusting!! Wolfgang "She said,’That ain’t the way to have fun, son.’"

Response:

I think that the absolutely most frustrating place I have ever, ever, fished has to be the Y pool on the Swift below the Quabbin.

<snipped Bob, just got back from a morning on the stream…anyway the owner of the local fly shop was my partner and I brought him up to show him the Roffians and my new vise.  He read your post and muttered, "South Platte Brassy, that’ll do it."  I have no idea if it will, of course,  but I felt compelled to send his suggestion on…If your are at all interested and you don’t have the formula, I found it in one of my books, just back channel me and I will type it for you… Padishar Creel

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: I think that the absolutely most frustrating place I have ever, ever, fished has to be the Y pool on the Swift below the Quabbin. Was there again yesterday from about 8 AM  to noon, and the Rainbows were so thick you literally had to watch where you stepped.  The density of them was just incredible; it was as if you were in a Hatchery. Naturally, as usual, I didn’t catch anything there.  Must be the world’s most discriminating trout. Not that the few others there did much better-I think one fellow caught one while i was trying. Tried just about everything in the Orvis catalog, from large to midges, dries, nymphys, etc. Even a streamer.  Anyway, was a most beautiful day. Any thoughts by anyone as to what (sometimes) works there, if anything-ever, would be MOST appreciated.

LOL! I’ve been fishing at the deflectors and have witnessed people storming down the trail from the Y-pool just a cussin’ and a fumin’ like you wouldn’t believe. By this time of year those fish will take you to school. I guess it can get the better of you if you aren’t careful… I’ve fished the Y on and off for 35 years. Caught my first big rainbow on a fly there when I was 13. Over the years I’ve had luck at the Y using small PT nymphs, RFSH nymphs, Sulfur dries (late evening hatch), beetles (especially Jassids using real JC nails), ants of various styles, and of course, micro-minutiae midge larva (ie: a #26 is a big one). If the fish aren’t actively feeding, I  still start out with a PT nymph and see what happens.  If the trout are into their "smutting" act, you can try bowling tiny gray or rust midge larva on a long 7x-8x tippet at the risers and strike on anything close. Tough on the eyes – I was much better at this when I was twenty years younger – but it will work. Less often successful, but a lot easier on the eyes, is to plop an ant or beetle down along the rocks on the far side of the tail-out… Fwiw, I used to watch the Old Man of the Y Pool stand for hours catching trout using a small light-blue-over-white streamer. Go figure… /daytripper

Response:

Hello: I think that the absolutely most frustrating place I have ever, ever, fished has to be the Y pool on the Swift below the Quabbin. Was there again yesterday from about 8 AM  to noon, and the Rainbows were so thick you literally had to watch where you stepped.  The density of them was just incredible; it was as if you were in a Hatchery. Naturally, as usual, I didn’t catch anything there.  Must be the world’s most discriminating trout. Not that the few others there did much better-I think one fellow caught one while i was trying. Tried just about everything in the Orvis catalog, from large to midges, dries, nymphys, etc. Even a streamer.  Anyway, was a most beautiful day. Any thoughts by anyone as to what (sometimes) works there, if anything-ever, would be MOST appreciated. Bob

Response:

Try another catalogue perhaps? TL MC — "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: I think that the absolutely most frustrating place I have ever, ever, fished has to be the Y pool on the Swift below the Quabbin. <SNIP Tried just about everything in the Orvis catalog, from large to midges, dries, nymphys, etc. Even a streamer.  Anyway, was a most beautiful day. Any thoughts by anyone as to what (sometimes) works there, if anything-ever, would be MOST appreciated. Bob

Response:

Question:

I’m a farmer from the midwest, and I have seen this behavior many times before.  In a hoglot (it can happen with cattle also) when one pig is picked on and shows too much weakness, often many other pigs will jump in and attack it.  They will often continue until they kill the weak pig. Now the article is gone so I cannot even read it, much less respond to it.  Usually when something stinks, it needs to be aired out.

Response:

FAOL made a public relations mistake by censoring opposing points of view in the public message forums and guest book.

Exactly right. I have been hearing a lot about how MC ‘censored’ Ole Rupe’s article when, in fact, FAOL censored any and all opposing comments, and based on Deanna’s reply to MC, she still doesn’t see why this was wrong. If opposing views had been allowed from the beginning, this whole debate would have been conducted on FAOL, where it belonged. Just imagine if Time magazine, for instance, published this article and refused to acknowledge any opposing views, but published a weak disclaimer a few issues later. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down" ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

Geez, bc, the anti-defamation league? Isn’t that overkill?   I don’t know why any responsible publisher (even on the net) would publish such crap but I guess I would just desub.  Seems like everbody wants to censor.  What a pain in the ass.

He incited killing people based on race.   Funniest thing, the author apparently doesn’t know anything about his subject, first-hand.  "If I lived" kinda makes you wonder about what he really would do if he did live there.  My guess would be hide under a rock.

He would be the last person I would invite on a hunting trip bc.

Response:

Folks Racists and their closet brethren are uniformly cowards and depend on easy prey and a wimpy defense. When they get challenged they generally run for cover. When they get their ass kicked they cry foul. When they are on top they kill and incite others to kill.  Civilized people who refuse to accept the inconvenience of the fight are walking shaky ground. Anyone feeling sorry for these assholes might try to consider how  Native American kids who accessed Ole Rupe’s racist shit felt. One of the most important lessons of the 20th Century is that racists and Nazis will use the hood at night, the gas chamber when they can get away with it and a cynical intellectualized stance when it suits them, and further, that the only effective way to fight them is to make them pay a high price for their bullshit. Good riddance, F*** Rupe and the horse he rode in on Dave

Response:

Why don’t you just email the author and ask for a copy?<

Who the fuck is the author?   And that’s not the point, anyway.  However, valiant ROFFians have provided me with this "tempest in a teapot"  piece of shit. Waste of good bandwidth to even discuss it.

Response:

I certainly have no tolerance for censorship. Had I been able to read the article perhaps I would have reacted differently, but thanks to all you "right thinkers" I do not have that opportunity. Expressing an opinion and attempting to force other expressions off the net are two different things.  I trust you can see that.

I am not condoning censorship.  FAOL made the decision to publish the article unedited in its original form.  The article would have been just as effective with out the racial overtones.  FAOL made a public relations mistake by censoring opposing points of view in the public message forums and guest book.  It was only after this censorship took place, did I start my letter campaign making sponsors and organizations like the Anti-Defamation League aware of that article. bc.

Response:

It was only after this censorship took

place, did I start my letter campaign making sponsors and organizations like the Anti-Defamation League aware of that article.< Geez, bc, the anti-defamation league?   Isn’t that overkill?  I don’t know why any responsible publisher (even on the net) would publish such crap but I guess I would just desub.  Seems like everbody wants to censor.  What a pain in the ass. Funniest thing, the author apparently doesn’t know anything about his subject, first-hand.  "If I lived" kinda makes you wonder about what he really would do if he did live there.  My guess would be hide under a rock.

Response:

Why don’t you just email the author and ask for a copy?< Who the fuck is the author?   And that’s not the point, anyway.  However, valiant ROFFians have provided me with this "tempest in a teapot"  piece of shit. Waste of good bandwidth to even discuss it.

I believe the whole thing started because Mike didn’t want articles he had written in the same ‘publication’ as that one, which is his right as an author. You were complaining that the result of his actions deprived you of your opportunity to read the article. FWIW. — Charlie…

Response:

I believe the whole thing started because Mike didn’t want articles he

had written in the same ‘publication’ as that one, which is his right as an author. You were complaining that the result of his actions deprived you of your opportunity to read the article. FWIW.< In spite of the recent Ct of Appeals decision, whether or not it’s his right is still up in the air IMO.  But yeah, I was complaining about that.   Now that I’ve read it, I wish I had had the opportunity to read it BEFORE I got into this thread.  And that’s the closest thing to an apology anyone is going to get from me. <g

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Isn’t that overkill?  I don’t know why any responsible publisher (even on the net) would publish such crap but I guess I would just desub.  Seems like everbody wants to censor.  What a pain in the ass.

Good point Harry. I raised a stink precisely because I do appreciate FAOL and have no desire to "unsubscribe". If the publication were of no value and little read, there would have been no outcry. I said as much to Deanna in reply to an email, I hope she takes it to heart. — Ken Fortenberry

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I do not regret any of my actions, and would do the same thing again if necessary.  I do regret the damage caused to the site, or to people connected with it, but this is in no way my responsibility.  This is purely the result of their own actions. The decision to close is up to the publishers alone, and I have no influence in the matter.

Mike certainly doesn’t need validation from me, but I do agree with the way he handled the whole mess. He removed himself from a publication he didn’t agree with, and told people why. The situation got a bit excessive, but the publisher’s actions and responses seemed to be as bizarre as the author’s, including shutting down the site and the ‘enjoy your victory’ bullshit. Sounds like one bad association (Rupe, Deanna, the public, and Mike) just waiting to flame out…and it did. — Jeff Cook http://www.cookstudios.com Washington DC area

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What’s with this "closure" of FAOL? Does that mean they’re shutting it down altogether? Why? Is this a case of the publisher "eating worms"? Will she have second thoughts? Or have all her sponsors deserted her? Tune in at 11. Seriously, folks, this is what they call a perverse result. I don’t think anyone in ROFF who was offended by the article wanted FAOL to cease to exist. Maybe a letter-writing campaign to their ex-sponsors along these lines would be called for: "I am satisfied by FAOL’s apology and retraction of the offensive article. Please continue your sponsorship of this fine web site." Not that it will do much good. One more thing. Before you start letter-writing campaigns to sponsors when you see something you don’t like on an otherwise excellent website, think about perverse effects. Wait at least of few days. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

HR, Like a spoiled little boy, he demanded that they return his ball.  If you don’t do what I want, I’ll take my ball (those precious "articles") and go home.

The analogy to the spoiled little boy and his ball is something of a stretch.  Mike’s contributions were more than a ball.  They could easily be construed as an endorsement of the site and, once the site stepped over a line to which Mike is sensitive, it’s understandable that Mike would no longer want his name associated with that site. Thanks to Mike and others of his ilk, I have not read the article.  

Mike and his ilk aren’t the only problem, here.  As I understand it, their opposing views were censored before they took additional steps. We can now only speculate how things might have turned out had opposing views been given prompt and equally prominent exposure. But even if I had, and found it racist,  I would not have demanded it’s removal.

I also wish the whole affair had been handled differently.  You may recall that I was one who opposed Mr. G’s remarks about Indians/fishing on ROFF.

Sorry.  I didn’t see those posts… But noooo, apparently I and others are not to be allowed that privilege.

It doesn’t seem possible that you believe the site in question is/was the only place on earth you could read that article.  Assuming Rupe is willing, it may be posted elsewhere.  You might even hunt Rupe up and request a copy if you’re as passionate as you sound about wanting to read it yourself.  It might even be that one of the article’s antagonists grabbed a copy and could email it to you.  But you gotta ask. The CENSORS have had their way.

I’m not arguing that point.  As I said before, I had concerns about the "censorship" aspect of the issue.  Censorship, though, isn’t always a dirty word.  You could say that I censored Larry Flint by keeping Hustler Magazine out of my house.  There were kids around. Was that kind of "censorship" a bad thing? We’ve long had laws on the books to discourage uncivil speech in public places.  It hasn’t been that long ago that a dunked boater was busted and prosecuted for cussing up a blue streak around women and kids.  Certainly you can argue that such laws infringe freedom of speech. But when you can walk into any supermarket and run a good chance of finding yourself — and your kids — in the checkout line behind somebody wearing a tee-shirt emblazoned with all manner of obscenites — you have to wonder… If we now find ourselves so enlightened that such laws are an embarrasment, what remedies do you propose for those who prefer not to be accosted by uncivil speech?  Are we to reduce them to staying indoors and keeping their mouths shut?  If that’s the answer, haven’t we censored them? One of my points to which you didn’t respond was the issue of all of us using our influence to affect the world around us.  What I’m wondering about is something like this: Remember when the Exxon Valdez ran aground?  Remember Exxon’s grudging responses?  Suppose somebody had succeeded in motivating a large number of Exxon customers to protest by buying their petrol elsewhere. Would that have been dirty pool or economic terrorism? Don’t us mere citizens have a right to prod and push our world about to shape it into something we think would be better? The way I see it, freedom of speech is a door that swings both ways. That is, say what you like, but be prepared for others to respond by saying what _they_ like.  And sometimes they say it _very_ loudly. Which is what Mike did. Wes Peterson LexCraft Data Services

Response:

I have always had a pretty good opinion of you Mike but I must say that I understand now why you live in Germany.  Who the fuck put you in charge of anything, much less in charge of deciding what should and should not appear on the net?  You have come out of this looking like a pretentious asshole IMO. But now I guess you can write some of your famous doggerel and everything will be all right.

Blaine, First of all, country of origin as nothing to do with expressing you’re own point of view. Mike did not put himself in charge of anything.  He has the legal right to express his opinion.  The publishers of the site made a business decision to put that article unedited on their commercial site.  The article would have been just as effective without those comments. When opposing points of view were expressed, they were quickly censored and removed from the public areas of the site.  Their justification was that they were off topic and inflammatory. If I go to a bookstore and pick up the latest issue of a fly fishing magazine, I can make a fair assumption that the articles enclosed will contain material relevant to the sport.  That the articles will not be intertwined with racial comments, incitement to kill someone and that 30/06 rifle rounds is inexpensive.  The same assumption should be made of an online magazine dedicated to fly-fishing. As far as I am concerned the staff of FAOL could have handled the entire situation better. The article in its original form had no business being on a commercial venue like FAOL. Based on the responses that I have received from sponsors when I sent out my email, I could surmise that they agree.   You and FAOL lack one thing: tolerance bc.

Response:

Presumably you think its OK for people to voice their hatred and poisonous

viewpoints, but not OK to do anything actively to oppose them ?< I have no knowledge of what was written and thanks to you and others like you, I will apparently have no opportunity to.  What I do oppose is censorship in any way shape or form.   No doubt you will live to censor another day.  And I’m glad I distressed you.  Certainly you have distressed me.

Response:

You and FAOL lack one thing: tolerance< I certainly have no tolerance for censorship. Had I been able to read the article perhaps I would have reacted differently, but thanks to all you "right thinkers" I do not have that opportunity. Expressing an opinion and attempting to force other expressions off the net are two different things.  I trust you can see that.

Would you like a copy of it?  I kept a copy for reference. Peter

Response:

You and FAOL lack one thing: tolerance<

I certainly have no tolerance for censorship. Had I been able to read the article perhaps I would have reacted differently, but thanks to all you "right thinkers" I do not have that opportunity. Expressing an opinion and attempting to force other expressions off the net are two different things.  I trust you can see that.

Response:

I have no knowledge of what was written and thanks to you and others like you, I will apparently have no opportunity to.  What I do oppose is censorship in any way shape or form.   No doubt you will live to censor another day.  And I’m glad I distressed you.  Certainly you have distressed me.

Why don’t you just email the author and ask for a copy? — Charlie…

Response:

Would you like a copy of it?  I kept a copy for reference.<

Thanks, Peter but Christian sent me one.   Is THIS really what all the fuss is about? "With regard to native American fishing rights I hold the politically incorrect view that the only good Indian is a dead Indian. If I lived  where they gill netted steelhead I would be on the 6 p.m. news. Uncle Sam taught me how to remove problems at 300 meters." Stupid?  Yes.  Disgusting that someone would put this onto the net (or anyplace, for that matter)?  Absolutely.   I disagree totally with the ideas expressed there.  Would I bitch about them?  Hell yes.   Do I believe that Rupe (or whatever the hell his name is) has a right to express them.  Yes, I do.   On a fly fishing site?  While I disagree violently with him, his comments are related to fishing.  So why not?  It’s not like his ideas, however unpalatable, are apt to have the impact of, say, shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre, now are they. With all the horrible examoles of racism that we see and have seen, frankly, this appears to me to be a tempest in a teapot. There are a lot better ways of fighting evil than writing about it on the net. But then, we’re writers, not doers, eh?

Response:

<long "final" rant snipped I have always had a pretty good opinion of you Mike but I must say that I understand now why you live in Germany.  Who the fuck put you in charge of anything, much less in charge of deciding what should and should not appear on the net?  You have come out of this looking like a pretentious asshole IMO. But now I guess you can write some of your famous doggerel and everything will be all right.

You are entitled to your opinion, good or bad.  Your insulting generalised implications of why I live where I live are unnecessary, unfortunate, unfounded, unworthy and not a little distressing. I am not in charge of anything at all. I simply voiced a perfectly normal protest at a particularly crass example of racism, in a place and under circumstances which where extremely upsetting. Your opinion of my person is also not particularly nice, but you have every right to voice it. I will doubtless survive nevertheless. Presumably you think its OK for people to voice their hatred and poisonous viewpoints, but not OK to do anything actively to oppose them ? Let

Question:

Here is the individual responsible for this spam- this same person spams this group weekly with various pornography and is a notorious spammer in many other newsgroups. (I tracked the phone number to his websites- then researched the owner of those sites): His name is Jerry Nardini. Here are his most recent addresses and phone numbers: PO Box 5981 Stateline, NV 89449 (702)588-0862 112a Cervantes Street San Francisco, CA 94123 (415)928-6025 25 Stillman st. #200 San Francico, CA 94109 (415)281-3104 Wanna meet someone tonight? It costs ONLY $1 per minute CALL NOW :  1-800-750-GIRL (4475) These girls are not phonesex workers. They are horny girls who are on the

line cuz it’s free phonesex for them. You are free to arrange to meet anyone you meet on this line. Give it a try! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – -EnjoyKIeTXJuN

Response:

Wolfgang Siebeneich schrieb:  I vote we keep the gentleman from North Carolina and lose you.  Seconds? Seconded !  ( average sixty to the minute ! ).

I vote we keep the gentleman from North Carolina and Wayno too !! — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Moreover, Wayne amuses me and a lot of others on this NG.  You don’t. Chris W. doesn’t.  Mr. Nardini doesn’t.  I vote we keep the gentleman from North Carolina and lose you.  Seconds?

Seconded !  ( average sixty to the minute ! ). TL MC

Response:

I vote we keep the gentleman from North Carolina and Wayno too !!

Uh oh!  Did I get it wrong?  Wait, let me think a gentleman?

Response:

Moreover, Wayne amuses me and a lot of others on this NG.  You don’t. Chris W. doesn’t.  Mr. Nardini doesn’t.  I vote we keep the gentleman from North Carolina and lose you.  Seconds?

Here! babob

Response:

Uh oh!  Did I get it wrong?  Wait, let me think a gentleman?

Yes, my name is E. Gaduair, but I prefer that you not refer to me as EGAD!! And could someone tell me just what the Germans have done to piss-off you folks. Opie in NC

Response:

Uh oh!  Did I get it wrong?  Wait, let me think a gentleman? Yes, my name is E. Gaduair, but I prefer that you not refer to me as EGAD!! And could someone tell me just what the Germans have done to piss-off you folks. Opie in NC

Tut mir ausserordentlich leid, aber ich habe kein Wort verstanden. TL MC

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It’s all very clear to me now! NC Opie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tut mir ausserordentlich leid, aber ich habe kein Wort verstanden. TL MC

Response:

Another person completely at a loss on the concept of News Groups. Wayno, numbnuts, these are not porno news groups and porno, or any other non-germaine posts, don’t belong here. You childish remarks prove your ignorance. Perhaps you need to take remedial Internet training as you are still way-fuzzy on the concept.

News Groups.  Public fora, are they not?  Seems to suggest that ANYONE is free to post.  Even some dumbass peddling his porn.  Everyone else, on the other hand, is free to whip his naked ass back where he came from or simply ignore him.  Or ignore Mr. Harrison for that matter.  Or you.  Or me. So, what’s germane?  Ignore everything that’s not strictly about fly fishing on this NG and you don’t have a great deal left to read.  Are your insults germane?  Why are they more germane than Mr. Harrison’s?  Wayne has posted a great deal of welcome information on these pages.  Has Chris W.?  Has Mr. Nardini?  Have you, Bobby? Moreover, Wayne amuses me and a lot of others on this NG.  You don’t.  Chris W. doesn’t.  Mr. Nardini doesn’t.  I vote we keep the gentleman from North Carolina and lose you.  Seconds?

Response:

[deleted]  Another person completely at a loss on the concept of News Groups. Wayno, numbnuts, these are not porno news groups and porno, or any other non-germaine posts, don’t belong here. You childish remarks prove your ignorance. Perhaps you need to take remedial Internet training as you are still way-fuzzy on the concept.

You mean like your (and mine) crossposted double-drivel ? Thanks for the NG lesson Robert ! — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

wayno "the professor" relates: <<finally, let me close with a few more childish remarks:  bite me, robbie baby; and, for good measure, "na na nah na na naahh".         you are now free to continue your graduate level studies in anal retentiveness. roflmao.  what a way to start out the day!  hey, why am i typing all in lower case?   louie

Response:

Here is the individual responsible for this spam- this same person spams this group weekly with various pornography and is a notorious spammer in many other newsgroups. (I tracked the phone number to his websites- then researched the owner of those sites): His name is Jerry Nardini. Here are his most recent addresses and phone numbers:

        gosh, chris, thanks for insulating me from evil.         now, do you think you could use this info to get jerry to drop the charges to a half a buck per minute?         roff is darwinian, chris, baby.  he won’t survive.  can you dig it? wayno

Response:

Here ya go Wayno!  Anything else you need you just gimme a Want to talk with REAL horny girls? This is something VERY new in phone sex. The women on the line are NOT paid. They call for free phone sex with guys like YOU! Guys: 50 cents per minute Girls: TOTALLY FREE discreetly directly to your phone bill. For gay talk call: 1-888-800-GUYS (toll-free) For Dominance & Submission Call: 888-700-WHIP l

Response:

Here ya go Wayno!  Anything else you need you just gimme a

ahhhhhhhhh… ROFF is darwinian lol waldo Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here is the individual responsible for this spam- this same person spams this group weekly with various pornography and is a notorious spammer in many other newsgroups. (I tracked the phone number to his websites- then researched the owner of those sites): His name is Jerry Nardini. Here are his most recent addresses and phone numbers:         gosh, chris, thanks for insulating me from evil.         now, do you think you could use this info to get jerry to drop the charges to a half a buck per minute?         roff is darwinian, chris, baby.  he won’t survive.  can you dig it? wayno

  Another person completely at a loss on the concept of News Groups. Wayno, numbnuts, these are not porno news groups and porno, or any other non-germaine posts, don’t belong here. You childish remarks prove your ignorance. Perhaps you need to take remedial Internet training as you are still way-fuzzy on the concept.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         gosh, chris, thanks for insulating me from evil.         now, do you think you could use this info to get jerry to drop the charges to a half a buck per minute?         roff is darwinian, chris, baby.  he won’t survive.  can you dig it? wayno  Another person completely at a loss on the concept of News Groups. Wayno, numbnuts, these are not porno news groups and porno, or any other non-germaine posts, don’t belong here. You childish remarks prove your ignorance. Perhaps you need to take remedial Internet training as you are still way-fuzzy on the concept.

        what you need is a good cyber ass whipping, which i will happily provide.         you also need some help with your grammar and spelling.         finally, let me close with a few more childish remarks:  bite me, robbie baby; and, for good measure, "na na nah na na naahh".         you are now free to continue your graduate level studies in anal retentiveness.         wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Question:

I’d appreciate anyone’s suggestions/experience with 35mm water resistant point and shoot cameras with a zoom lens. I’m looking to use it while canoeing/flyfishing/hiking.  My primary concerns are very good pictures and good durability for less than $325.  Thanks for any and all input. John * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

I’d appreciate anyone’s suggestions/experience with 35mm water resistant point and shoot cameras with a zoom lens. I’m looking to use it while canoeing/flyfishing/hiking.  My primary concerns are very good pictures and good durability for less than $325.  Thanks for any and all input.

I really, really like my Pentax IQ Zoom 90 WR. Unfortunately, it has been discontinued for a few months now. If you can find one used, I’d recommend it. Otherwise I would certainly check out its replacement, the Pentax Zoom 105 WR. ER If you aren’t spamming, avoid the JUNKTRAP

Response:

I’d appreciate anyone’s suggestions/experience with 35mm water resistant point and shoot cameras with a zoom lens.

Although APS, the Minolta Vectis S-1 is splashproof.  I have the Minolta   22-80 which is the 35mm equivalent of 28-100

Response:

I read a review of the 105 WR that was quite favorable.  I don’t recall the source, but it’s probably worth checking out. Mike

Response:

I bought a Yashica T4 Super for a weeklong canoe trip. It has a Carl Zeiss 35mm F3.5 lens. It takes excellent pics. (Now if I could only take excellent pics!) I chose it over a zoom because of the optics. I took about 10 rolls of pics, mostly from shore. And never once did I miss having a zoom. I guess I "framed with my paddle". As to its water resistance, I took it night snow skiing and had it in my coat pocket along with an orange juice box. During a nasty fall, the OJ box split. At first I thought I had busted a kidney, as did several girls who just pointed and laughed at the bright yellow streak next to me in the snow. (Under the lights the OJ looked yellow). It was not until weeks later that I realizied that I had baptized the camera in juice. I had taken several more rolls of pics that were unaffected by the spill. I put 2 and 2 together when the on/off switch was hard to move and the lens did not come out. So I held the camera under warm running water, taking it out every now and then to move the switch back and forth. After a minute or two, the stickiness was gone. After towelling off the camera, I cleaned the lens. Not one problem ever happened with it. This camera is not waterproof as the Pentax WR zooms are. I did not feel that I needed a waterproof camera. I just carried it in a small waterproof bag  along with my film, mini tripod, extra glasses, bug repellent, … My only complaint is that it takes a picture after I press the shutter button, not when I press it. I have gotten used to this but it was very disconcerting that it does not behave like a 35mm SLR. I have heard that this is true of most P&S. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’d appreciate anyone’s suggestions/experience with 35mm water resistant point and shoot cameras with a zoom lens. I’m looking to use it while canoeing/flyfishing/hiking.  My primary concerns are very good pictures and good durability for less than $325.  Thanks for any and all input. I really, really like my Pentax IQ Zoom 90 WR. Unfortunately, it has been discontinued for a few months now. If you can find one used, I’d recommend it. Otherwise I would certainly check out its replacement, the Pentax Zoom 105 WR. ER If you aren’t spamming, avoid the JUNKTRAP

Response:

I’d appreciate anyone’s suggestions/experience with 35mm water resistant point and shoot cameras with a zoom lens. I’m looking to use it while canoeing/flyfishing/hiking.  My primary concerns are very good pictures and good durability for less than $325.  Thanks for any and all input.

John, why not to use something like Yashica T5 or if you want zoom Fuji DL super mini zoom and ewa-marine plastic bag U-AM or U-AMZ http://www.ewa-marine.de/datenbl.htm This seems like a good solution. –Yuri Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Pentax Zoom 90WR I bought 4 or 5 point and shoot cameras for my wife and shot 1 roll of print film with each. This was 2 years ago! I ended up buying Pentax Zoom 90WR which is waterresistant, they claim you can drop it in a bucket of water. It takes great photos and they are very sharp. Unfortunately it it now obsolete, but I suggest you try out whatever has replaced it. Buy it, shoot a roll and if you don’t like it take it back! Steelhead (As in the Rainbow!)

Response:

The Canon zoom PS cameras have a muddy viewfinder.  Go with the Olympus, either the cool-looking LT 105 or the Stylus zoom 115.  If you don’t need a zoom, the Yashica T4 super is excellent. -DK – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Smith) writes: I bought a Yashica T4 Super for a weeklong canoe trip. It has a Carl Zeiss 35mm F3.5 lens. It takes excellent pics. (Now if I could only take excellent pics!) I chose it over a zoom because of the optics. I took about 10 rolls of pics, mostly from shore. And never once did I miss having a zoom. I guess I "framed with my paddle". But this person was asking for a P&S _zoom_. If he would ask which a zoom or a fixed then your reply would make more sense. I would suggest the Olympus zoom 140 if the Canon Z135 is too bulky. Although the Canon Z135 (not the 115) is the best, IMHO.  The Z135 is better than the Z115 since the flash furter away from the lens. Think about it. cheers, S.

Response:

writes: I bought a Yashica T4 Super for a weeklong canoe trip. It has a Carl Zeiss 35mm F3.5 lens. It takes excellent pics. (Now if I could only take excellent pics!) I chose it over a zoom because of the optics. I took about 10 rolls of pics, mostly from shore. And never once did I miss having a zoom. I guess I "framed with my paddle".

But this person was asking for a P&S _zoom_. If he would ask which a zoom or a fixed then your reply would make more sense.   I would suggest the Olympus zoom 140 if the Canon Z135 is too bulky. Although the Canon Z135 (not the 115) is the best, IMHO.  The Z135 is better than the Z115 since the flash furter away from the lens. Think about it. cheers, S.

Response:

w/zoom? The Canon zoom PS cameras have a muddy viewfinder.  Go with the Olympus, either the cool-looking LT 105 or the Stylus zoom 115.  If you don’t need a zoom, the Yashica T4 super is excellent. -DK

Have you ever shot B&W with the T-4 and made prints up to 16×20? What did they look like? I have an old carry around Nikon 35AF P&S that produces superb 11×14’s and good 16×20’s. Can the T-4 do the same? If so, I might just buy one. Arthur Kramer Las Vegas NV

Response:

Just stay away from Minolta WeatherMatic!  I bought one.  Didn’t use it right away.  Following summer put six rolls of film through it.  $85 repair.  Could get no response or help from Minolta.  Took it out.  First roll of film and it wasn’t working again.  Paid $235 for it.  Gave it to my son to take apart to see how it worked … he was about ten!  I just couldn’t face dealing with a black wall.  Talked with local camera store who said he had dozens returned for defects and "throwing it away" was the best thing I ever did with it. I deal with a lot of vendors as a computer professional and computer/photography amateur, but Minolta was just a black hole!  Don’t send me suggestions … I’m pure Nikon now. Dwight

Response:

Question:

My favorite river appears to have a hatch of what somebody told me was Crane Flys.  The insects torso hangs below the wings and the bottom of the torso comes around and looks like it connects with the thorax.  Imagine a flying J with wings on the top part of the J and you have the insect I am talking about. Does anybody have any information on these insects and if so, what patterns best imitate them. Thanks! Mike Wilson Fishing!! What else is there?

Response:

FlyFis4fun: <<Does anybody have any information on these insects and if so, what patterns best imitate them. Patterns are in "Fly Patterns of Umpqua Feather Merchants", and Stewrt/Allen’s "Flies for trout".  Both adult and larva patterns are listed.  I can not imagine the crane fly as a major hatch, but if you say so…… Dave LaCourse

Response:

My favorite river appears to have a hatch of what somebody told me was Crane Flys.  The insects torso hangs below the wings and the bottom of the torso comes around and looks like it connects with the thorax.  Imagine a flying J with wings on the top part of the J and you have the insect I am talking about.

If they are indeed crane flies, also know as "daddy long legs" they belong to the family tipulidae, and are terrestrials which often fall on the water in considerable numbers, especially when it is windy,  being very clumsy fliers.  They are often imitated using long trailing knotted pheasant tail or nylon legs, body, hackle, and hackle tip spent wings to match the colour, usually from light tan to dark brown, but olive and yellow variations are also common.  An excellent pattern may be made using detached buoyant mayfly bodies. TL MC

Response:

Thanks for the information gentleman but it appears that the insect that I am seeing is something other then the Crane Fly.   The insect in question, as afore mentioned, is a pale tan to whiteish tan and flys with its torso bent around to connect near its thorax.  It hatches in fair numbers though I must admit, I have never seen any of them actually land on the water.  The primary food on this river is Stone Flys so this is more of a question exploration then anything else. Thanks for the help so far. Mike

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the information gentleman but it appears that the insect that I am seeing is something other then the Crane Fly. The insect in question, as afore mentioned, is a pale tan to whiteish tan and flys with its torso bent around to connect near its thorax.  It hatches in fair numbers though I must admit, I have never seen any of them actually land on the water.  The primary food on this river is Stone Flys so this is more of a question exploration then anything else. Thanks for the help so far. Mike

Hi Mike, how big is this insect ?  Does it hatch from the water, or does it just appear on the water ? TL MC

Response:

Many Crane Fly species are terrestial, living in damp soil.  Aquatic species are usually found in streams with bottoms of fine gravel silt or sand.  Pupation usually takes place in damp soil along stream margins and is therefore of little account to the flyfisherperson. The larvae are simple and tube like and usually not available to fish as they burrow rather deeply and have no swimming abilities.  They are available during spates and may be represented by wooly worms.  The "Muskrat", an old Polly Rosborough pattern is another Crane Fly larva imitation.  Adults seem to be more available during light summer rains and may be represented by any appropriately sized and colored dry fly. As I write this I am watching a hiuge cranefly llumbering around the room….here in the Northwest there is a species that frequents lawns(well watered) and in climax years actually causes quite a bit of damage to the turf. Thanks for the information gentleman but it appears that the insect that I am seeing is something other then the Crane Fly.   The insect in question, as afore mentioned, is a pale tan to whiteish tan and flys with its torso bent around to connect near its thorax.  It hatches in fair numbers though I must admit, I have never seen any of them actually land on the water.  The primary food on this river is Stone Flys so this is more of a question exploration then anything else. Thanks for the help so far. Mike

– Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                          Tom McGuane

Response:

The insect in question, as afore mentioned, is a pale tan to whiteish tan and flys with its torso bent around to connect near its thorax.  It hatches in fair numbers though I must admit, I have never seen any of them actually land on the water.  The primary food on this river is Stone Flys so this is more of a question exploration then anything else. Thanks for the help so far. Mike

Hello Mike, I sometimes fish a limestone stream in Eastern Pennsylvania  where Orange Craneflys (orange head) gather in clusters all along the stream banks and edge of water.  The locals have an easy to tie pattern for the orange cranefly that is very effective..  Basically, your going to tie a dry fly without a tail or wings — just body, legs, & head.   Very lightly dubbed muskrat body with Dun colored hackle, use orange thread and build a small head.  I hope this helps. Dave

Response:

My favorite river appears to have a hatch of what somebody told me was Crane Flys.  The insects torso hangs below the wings and the bottom of the torso comes around and looks like it connects with the thorax.  Imagine a flying J with wings on the top part of the J and you have the insect I am talking about. If they are indeed crane flies, also know as "daddy long legs"

I don’t know about where you live, Mike, but in the US Crane Flies and Daddy Long Legs are not at all the same thing. Crane Flies actually have wings and fly. They look like gigantic mosquitoes, but they don’t bite. Daddy Long Legs look like large spiders (but they aren’t spiders). They don’t have wings.

Response:

Crane Flies:   When I was in Ireland a few summers ago, the gillie taught me how to "dibble" for salmon: He put a relatively heavy wet fly at the end of my leader, and then a bushy dry fly on a dropper, about 6′ up from the tippet.   The idea was to use the wet fly as an anchor, and then bob the rod tip, so the dry fly danced on the surface of the water…on the surface one second, then suddenly 6" above, like a big bug jumping up and down on the water.   So I haven’t tried this over hear yet, frankly, but talking about it did lead to some interesting new information. I told this story to George Anderson,   and he said  "Sure, the guys over in Dillon (MT) have been fishing the crane fly hatch on the Beaverhead that way for years!" — /* Sandy Pittendrigh                  –oO0  * http://www.nervana.montana.edu/~sandy  */

Response:

They look like giant mosquitoes…so how about a size 2 mosquito??? George

Response:

Fish the larvae The trout eat them Lots easier to tie too… a Beaver leech — Free Lake Fly Fishing On-Line Magazine Lake Fly Fishing CD’s, Videos, Books http://www.rural.escape.ca/angling_north/fishing/organz.htm

Response:

Question:

Well, you don’t really seem to get my point, Shawnie. THIS IS ALT.SUPPORT.DEPRESSION.MANIC!!! Your war against darkman, who I see as a very compassionate, caring, knowledgeable individual DOES NOT FIT IN HERE! (and yes, I know it is rude to shout. But so are you bringing this here.)

| | |Another thing: have you considered that this is not appropriate for this |group? Instead of posting repeatedly here, why don’t you create a different |feedbackpage where the posts are read before put on the board? | |You don’t know how my cgi guestbook works. I don’t really care how your CGI guestbook works. I suggested you got a different kind of guestbook. | | Not much of a |change…and if you use email to get the mail, it is also easier to track |a..holes such as this through their NNTP-posting host/IP number. | | |not when they use an anonymizer service. No matter. You can still moderate your guestbook and remove obscene messages. I am sure you don’t have such a traffic-volume that this would be a problem. Obscene, anonymized mails could be dealth with – they are always marked with the anon-service abuse-address. I hope you take this fight to another place. It is common netiquette to post ontopic. Haakon

Response:

know what darkman has done and does do for me and you will NEVER convince me that he is the sicko doing this to you. So just deal with it privately and leave the rest of us the HELL alone. I am sick of your posts! — Kimber "Recognize your emotional style and make it work for you."

Response:

darkman frm hell – @38.30.246 / http:// Kill all the runts! let them all die!  Shawnie is a whore and a slut! She fucked her  counsellour then tried to kill him. Signed on: Thu Nov 19 20:59:37 EST 1998 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have you considered that this might _not_ be Darkman? He must be a total idiot to leave his nick at a page like this, where you can write anything you wish. And Darkman has come across as many things to me – but not an idiot. Another thing: have you considered that this is not appropriate for this group? Instead of posting repeatedly here, why don’t you create a different feedbackpage where the posts are read before put on the board? Not much of a change…and if you use email to get the mail, it is also easier to track a..holes such as this through their NNTP-posting host/IP number. Namaste, Haakon | | | Click here to see what the loser is up to now |http://adventureangling.com/guestdir/chdguest.htm | | | | | | |Take Care |congenital heart defects webring: | http://adventureangling.com/chd/webring.htm |Adventure Angling |http://adventureangling.com |y2k,chd,BP,MD and fishing book stores: |http://adventureangling.com/books/index.htm

Response:

Have you considered that this might _not_ be Darkman? He must be a total idiot to leave his nick at a page like this, where you can write anything you wish. And Darkman has come across as many things to me – but not an idiot. Another thing: have you considered that this is not appropriate for this group? Instead of posting repeatedly here, why don’t you create a different feedbackpage where the posts are read before put on the board? Not much of a change…and if you use email to get the mail, it is also easier to track a..holes such as this through their NNTP-posting host/IP number. Namaste, Haakon

| | | Click here to see what the loser is up to now |http://adventureangling.com/guestdir/chdguest.htm | | | | | | |Take Care |congenital heart defects webring: | http://adventureangling.com/chd/webring.htm |Adventure Angling |http://adventureangling.com |y2k,chd,BP,MD and fishing book stores: |http://adventureangling.com/books/index.htm

Response:

What is your problem with darkman? Why do you think everyone who calls themselves Darkman are the same person? I am having SERIOUS problems right now and darkman is helping me more than anyone else around. He is hunting up info for me, he is encouraging me (not that a lot of you aren’t helping also). But make sure of your facts before attacking someone who is doing so much good. — Kimber "Recognize your emotional style and make it work for you."

Response:

It is against the law to publicly post private e-mail and it certainly does not belong in this forum.  You are doing the same type of thing that darkman is doing to me. He is taking posts of mine on this NG that I Posted just days after getting out of the hospital and posting them to my guestbooks.  He also e-mails them to me as a form of harassment.  Yes I know it is him his e-mail program used the same reply to e-mail address that he uses here in the NG’s.  Take another look at the obscene messages he posted in my guest book that imply my daughter should be killed http://adventureangling.com/guestdir/chdguest.htm and try to have some compassion. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –             Re: Dark man is at it again         To:  References:             1 , 2 , 3 I don’t care what the hell you think The above email was received by me from editor and is in its unedited version. Catherine I agree with Tunesmith.  Darkman seems not the type to post such trash on editor’s page.  I also think ASDM is NOT the appropriate place to post such accusations about someone. Editor, take the time to track down this person through their IP number and learn who the real poster is to your page. Peace, Catherine Have you considered that this might _not_ be Darkman? He must be a total idiot to leave his nick at a page like this, where you can write anything you wish. And Darkman has come across as many things to me – but not an idiot. Another thing: have you considered that this is not appropriate for this group? Instead of posting repeatedly here, why don’t you create a different feedbackpage where the posts are read before put on the board? Not much of a change…and if you use email to get the mail, it is also easier to track a..holes such as this through their NNTP-posting host/IP number. Namaste, Haakon | | | Click here to see what the loser is up to now |http://adventureangling.com/guestdir/chdguest.htm | | | | | | |Take Care |congenital heart defects webring: | http://adventureangling.com/chd/webring.htm |Adventure Angling |http://adventureangling.com |y2k,chd,BP,MD and fishing book stores: |http://adventureangling.com/books/index.htm Paint the sky with stars So our spirits have to fly. Paint the sky with stars So our spirits have to fly.

Response:

Question:

A friend is going on his honeymoon on Maui and was looking for some suggestions on where to go fly fishing.Any fly patterns or where there is a good tackle shop to stop in at would be appreciated. Thanks , jeff

Response:

A friend is going on his honeymoon on Maui and was looking for some suggestions on where to go fly fishing.Any fly patterns or where there is a good tackle shop to stop in at would be appreciated. Thanks , jeff

I would also like to hear some suggestions.  I plan on taking a trip there soon and would like to put in some time fly fishing.  I have heard fishing the islands can be pretty tough however…anyone have info on Maui? -Greg

Response:

A friend is going on his honeymoon on Maui and was looking for some suggestions on where to go fly fishing.Any fly patterns or where there is a good tackle shop to stop in at would be appreciated. Thanks , jeff

Hi Jeff, I heard that there was a bike shop that had some fly fishing equipment. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

Question:

I have to agree with Keith, it is better to check all of the facts before sending replys.  I have fished the bighole for 11 yrs and live in Idaho where many mines have conducted operations with little or now adverse effect on the watersheds.  Much more damage comes from new home developement such as on the north shore of Henry’s Lake.   Doug

Response:

I have to agree with Keith, it is better to check all of the facts before sending replys.  I have fished the bighole for 11 yrs and live in Idaho where many mines have conducted operations with little or now adverse effect on the watersheds.  Much more damage comes from new home developement such as on the north shore of Henry’s Lake.  

Yes, there are some good mining operations, but much mining is very environmentally harmful.  When you consider that mining companies pay next to nothing for the privilege, it’s especially disturbing.  There’s a reason that Butte, MT and the Clark Fork River constitute one of the largest Superfund sites in the U.S., compliments of Anaconda. John Woodling Sacramento, CA

Response:

[text indicating belief in the Big Hole Big Lie SWALLOWED by  the Big Bit Bucket] Sandy just carved another notch in his 6WT computer keyboard. Nice catch ! TimW

Response:

. . snip . Reading this is gut wrenching, to say the least. As I read this, I think . of the battle raging over the proposed mine at the headwaters of Penns . Creek. I have fished both the Big Hole and Penns, and they are both the . kind of waters trout fisherman dream of. I’m sure the management of the . mining company responsible for the Big Hole tragedy assured the local . sportsmen that no harm would come of the watersheds as a result of their . work. Alas, a promise made on paper will not prevent the kind of mishap Jennifer, Please check your facts before you spout off.  Sandy Pittendrigh’s Big Hole tragedy was a farce.  It did not happen.  Regular readers of rec.outdoors.fishing.fly are aware of this.  You owe an apology to the mining company you wrongly lambasted.  Do I really expect one?  No, self-proclaimed "enviromentalists" rarely have that level of integrity. – Keith

Response:

You’re seriously believing this nonsense?  Mail me a copy of the article from the newspaper and THEN I’ll believe you. Jeff

Response:

Yesterday’s Billing’s Gazette and Bozeman report the incredible loss

of the Bi g Hole River, due to a mining accident at Maidenrock. Miners at the

Rhoene Polen c talc mine, at Maidenrock canyon, apparently broke into a heretofore unknown labyrinth of cavernous, underground limestone chambers. The sudden

change in a ir pressure apparently caused an explosion, which collapsed the roof of

the limes tone chamber, and swallowed the entire flow of the Big Hole river,

approximately 5 miles upstream from Melrose.    Montana State University researchers estimate it will take 3-5

months for t he river to fill this massive underground cave system, and then resurface again, somewhere downstream, near Twin Bridges. Twelve to fifteen miles of

the Big Ho le river, it appears, will be permanently lost to this insideous

underground flow ! Sandy: I suppose I should say thanks for the information, but it somehow sticks in my throat.  I have fished in that area several times in recent years, and was planning to return this September.  Any further information on this devastating event would be appreciated for those of us here in the east.              Mark Faulkner Reading this is gut wrenching, to say the least. As I read this, I think of the battle raging over the proposed mine at the headwaters of Penns Creek. I have fished both the Big Hole and Penns, and they are both the kind of waters trout fisherman dream of. I’m sure the management of the mining company responsible for the Big Hole tragedy assured the local sportsmen that no harm would come of the watersheds as a result of their work. Alas, a promise made on paper will not prevent the kind of mishap which has taken down this great river. To those of you living and fishing this part of the Bighole, our hearts go out to you. To those of us living and fishing Penns Creek, I say this; let this be a lesson to all of us. The mining company doesn’t give a rats ass about the watershed or the sportsman who call it a friend. Let this serve as a call to arms. As much as I would love to kick somebody (Gov. Ridge) right in the nuts over this, it would do no good. The battlefield will be a court of law, and that requires money. The Orvis Company is spearheading the defense of Penns Creek. Any contributions to the defense fund sent to the following address will be matched by Orvis. Make check or money order payable to; Penns Valley Conservation Association and send it to; Penns Valley Defense Fund C/O Orvis, Historic Route 7A Manchester VT, 05254 Any donation over $200 is tax deductible. Thanx for the bandwidth Tom

Response:

Question:

Planning to go to Cabo in mid May.  Need as much info on guides that specialize in fly fishing.  Any info on best patterns etc would be very helpful.  Have been told that a guide for fly fishing would be about $250 for 1/2 day…seems a bit high?

Response:

Fly fishing opportunities abound in Cabo and surrounding areas. You certainly could spend $250 a day for a guide, or you could hire a local *panga* (open skiff) for about $100 a day. Large schools of Jacks, Pacific Yellowtail, and my favorite – Roosterfish abound. The owners of these boats will probably not be *fly*fishing guides, but rather local smalltime fisherman looking looking to pocket $100 greenbacks for the day. They know where the fish are, and their small boats can get you to the breaks where the fish congregate. You may consider San Jose del Cabo and/or La Paz. Nearby, lots of raentable boats. Also, you can almost always catch fish from any rocky outcropping that far down in Baja. On sandy beaches, keep your eyes out for Corbina in 4"-12" feeding on sand crabs. The water may be too warm, but if they are there, they’re going to be big ones. Good Luck, Jojoe, New York City

Response:

Question:

Why not try a Fisher rod for a new experience.  The Fisher action is, in my opinion, one of the best on the market.  If you want a good buy, call Mike Solgat at (702) 782-4734 for his prices on a custom rod made from a Fisher blank.

Response:

Why not try a Fisher rod for a new experience.  

 …and (addendum to last entry)…have you tried a Scott? steve drossel

Response:

 Sage has many more choices.  Fenwick’s Ironfeather sounds like it’s their entry into the quality_rod category…. Right now, if in the same situation I’d tryout the Ironfeather with either Sage’s SP or RPL side_by_side if possible AND I (opinion) would include a few Orvis PMs (like EACH company’s line of rods…some are great, some are NOT!) tight_lines steve drossel

Response:

Hey…         Hello Snowdog here…well my choice would be Sage..if u can afford SP OR RPL….they are wonderful rods.  The SP is top of the line…for anyone.  It is a very difficult rod…less for giving than the RPL so. I am still a poor college student…but have had a chance to use the rods. I have a four piece Discovery 5wt. 9′.  It is real nice and a nice upgrade from what I had before…a cheap Cortland.  I love it.  Orvis…well I look ed at them and for the money…at least what I could afford…Sage won hands down.  I live in the Upper Snake River Valley…I go to Idaho State University and by and far the most used quality rods around here are Sage. Orvis yes I guess is okay…but I just like how Sage feels.  Also…as long as u take care of your rod…and spending anywhere up to six hundred dollars u would be stupid not too…Sage guarentees it for life…your life.  Orvis does have that 25 year guarentee, but I think u pay more for it than the rod. Take can I hope this helps. Peter

Response:

GO with the sage. Current Fenwick rods are not as good as the past oldies. Sage was started by former Fenwick designers and come real close to the traditional Fenwick tapers. I think that you will find the Sage a far better rod and will suit your needs better. In addition, some current Fenwicks have had some major breaking problems (the riverrunner casting rods come to mind). In addition quality control has lapsed since the company was purchased by that overseas conglomerate. Sage has become the rod of choice and former fenwick owners should feel comfortable with the feel and tapers. I can attest that the Fenwick return policy is quite liberal, if you still insist on the Fenwick. Ditto for Sage. I personally would settle for the Sage. REGARDS from a longtime Fenwick fan. Hope this helps. DA

I second this recommendation. I own four Fenwicks–old and new–and two Sages. The Fenwicks, old or new, do not compare to the Sages. I also have a couple of Orvis rods, and a Loomis 4-piece. The best by far is the Sage 9-ft 5-weight. Orvis, of course, has the best return/repair policy–free replacement regardless of cause.

Response:

        I am in the process of looking for a new rod (to be graciously supplied by my insurance company) to replace one lost in a move. I have used Fenwick fly rods for ages and have been rather leery of anything else. The guy at the local shop has been pushing me to buy a Sage but I’m not sure.         Help me out guys. I need some opinions on the subject. Do I stick with the Fenwick or go for a new Sage. tips up folks

Response:

Lafleur) writes:

 I am in the process of looking for a new rod (to be graciously supplied by my insurance company) to replace one lost in a move. I have used Fenwick fly rods for ages and have been rather leery of anything else. The guy at the local shop has been pushing me to buy a Sage but I’m not sure.  Help me out guys. I need some opinions on the subject. Do I stick with the Fenwick or go for a new Sage Buy the rod that feels best. Most quality rods will catch fish. buying "brand names" fits in the same boat as having a BMW or Rolex, both great products if you need them for anything other than ego gratification. I have noticed a disturbing trend in fly fishing in the last few years. It seems that what you use is more important than the results you get, or the fun you have. Both brands will do the job. Labbe

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Lafleur) writes:

<Do I go for Fenwick or Sage Much depends on your own style of fishing. Owning both Sage and Fenwick rods myself, I grab my Fenwick 4-wt when small streams with delicate presentations are the order of the day. For large rivers where something with a bit more oomph is needed, I’ll take my Sage 5-wt. Forced to a cross-situation of a large water needing very delicate casts, I use a $25 Berkley Blazer 4/5. Cheap as it is, it’s got enough backbone to deliver 50-55 feet of line, but is slow enough to allow great delicacy and control. Not bad for the price, I’d say. JL 8-Wt Editor

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Sage rods are truly a pleasure to fish with

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Lafleur) writes: I am in the process of looking for a new rod (to be graciously supplied by my insurance company) to replace one lost in a move. I have used Fenwick fly rods for ages and have been rather leery of anything else. The guy at the local shop has been pushing me to buy a Sage but I’m not sure. Help me out guys. I need some opinions on the subject. Do I stick with the Fenwick or go for a new Sage

GO with the sage. Current Fenwick rods are not as good as the past oldies. Sage was started by former Fenwick designers and come real close to the traditional Fenwick tapers. I think that you will find the Sage a far better rod and will suit your needs better. In addition, some current Fenwicks have had some major breaking problems (the riverrunner casting rods come to mind). In addition quality control has lapsed since the company was purchased by that overseas conglomerate. Sage has become the rod of choice and former fenwick owners should feel comfortable with the feel and tapers. I can attest that the Fenwick return policy is quite liberal, if you still insist on the Fenwick. Ditto for Sage. I personally would settle for the Sage. REGARDS from a longtime Fenwick fan. Hope this helps. DA

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