Question:

Just thought I’d post this for a friend, hopefully this is allowed by all of you. She is selling her fly fishing ranch along with all her fly shop inventory. If any of you are interested take a look here; http://www.blackfireflyfishing.com Thanks!!

Response:

Just thought I’d post this for a friend, hopefully this is allowed by all of you. She is selling her fly fishing ranch along with all her fly shop inventory. If any of you are interested take a look here; http://www.blackfireflyfishing.com

Wolfgang workin in a coal mine, goin down down down

Response:

helping? …you should rename the post: "helping rip-off the ignorant"…the prices are a joke,,she must be giving you a cut of the hefty product..id offer you 30cents on the dollar..like any other "liquidation"…so go play in the middle of the River..your bargain aint welcome here bubbye

Just thought I’d post this for a friend, hopefully this is allowed by all of you. She is selling her fly fishing ranch along with all her fly shop inventory. If any of you are interested take a look here; http://www.blackfireflyfishing.com Wolfgang workin in a coal mine, goin down down down

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Question:

 on the contrary:  posts such as yours often transform banality into a worthwhile subject for ridicule.

Who else has a motorcycle with 3 fly tying vices on it (except maybe Dig Dale<g)? — Charlie…

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(except maybe Dig Dale<g)?

Or Big Dale, too… — Charlie…

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however, you must not consider my response to be an effort to take  the keyboard from your hands.  on the contrary:  posts such as yours often transform banality into a worthwhile subject for ridicule.

Almost makes me feel bad I missed it. If you hear a distant scream from the East later this morning, you’ll know all those missing posts showed up at once when I fired up ROFF from my office PC. –Steve

Response:

(snip ramblings from the king of babble-on)         george, it is a pity that you are so bereft of literacy; otherwise, the world of psychiatry would be afforded a marvelous insight into the world of the egomaniac, at no cost, here at roff.         however, you must not consider my response to be an effort to take  the keyboard from your hands.  on the contrary:  posts such as yours often transform banality into a worthwhile subject for ridicule.         "wayne"

Response:

What I like about my place is that it reeks with the outdoors/indoors. The unusual objects that grace this place of quiet solitude are really signatures of my life.  To the right of me, as I write this is a motorcycle, right next to my desk – a library of outdoor literature that would keep any man busy reading for several years and in fact, most of them are valuable collector items.  The pictures that adorn my walls began years ago which include art works along with my own.  A River Runs Through It, given to me by Redford, tons of inventory and boxes in the upper lofts which we use to ship in to customers all over the world and to my right, my Studio Upright Balwin piano which I tickle, now and then in moments of reverie. A Setter, usually lays at my feet no matter where I sit each day.  Such companionship is one of osmosis, I suppose.  Love unconditional is the best kind of love, which often is more real from animals whose senses are keener than words.  If you want to know that man, I’ve always said, look at his animals.  Are his horse shy from abuse?  Do his dogs cower and does the cat slink away to hide?  Thing is, I marvel that most new people who show up must be warned that they may be licked to death around here. I have serveral com sites that have not been developed yet and I suppose this winter I and David Ion may start doing something about that. Mainly because the bamboo blanks are in great demand and growing. Burning the night oil, late at night, pondering the next decimals on the lathe while listening to Barbara Cook or the Four Freshmen on the Studio Sound System – waxes the hours away.  I’ve always loved working with my hands.  The creation of things that take form for others is a joy for me.  I am good at the things that I do.  A rare gift, I’m told but it makes me smile.  Often, when I work, I have a specific man’s name in mind and although I may not know what they look like, I know the heart. For me, that is what matters. I have a second motorcycle setting by a well used and equiped fly tying center and table.  It has three fly tying vises on it and the finest material money can buy.  The finest refreshments that money can buy is not far away and often, the finest company dwell on life in soft whispers and laughter while pretty things are plucked and stored in fly boxes.  Steelhead season is on and it has been better this year.  The river banks are lined here and there with vehicles, empty of the driver.  One cannot help but look to the river for them. Harmonics has been my bane for three weeks now.  I have hunted this bitch for all this time, trying hard to find the harmony long since lost.  The mill has been eating tips like M & M’s and it tends to piss me off because its been so difficult.  Tonight, finally, the dial indicator needle is setting vibration free for the first time in months, if not nearly a year. I’ve tired of the politics on ROFF and the nonsense of subject matters not dealing with fly fishing.  There is so much to think about regarding the subject and there are so many facets as found on a diamond, yet to be explored.  We used to talk about those a couple years ago all the time.  It used to be as fun as what is enjoyed in the fly tying section.  No darwinian nonsense there.  Just pure fly tying and gentlemen of the first realm. Well, I had to take a break and this computer and hook up is different from the other.  Old friends still write on the side and the letters are warm and caring.  The kind of people that make this world a nice place are often singular minds enjoying and trusting the minutes spent with friends.  Nothing worse in life than bores who only hawk and take inventory of others.  Such a waste of valuable time. I sometimes think of that long line of camels on the horizon in a far away desert.  Mirage like they seem . . . shimmering in the heat of the sun, almost unreal.  If you walk toward them, you notice the camels are in a long, thin line and as you get closer and closer, as in ROFF, you notice they are tied together with singular lines, halter to tail, halter to tail and should you follow with your eye to the front, the lead animal is always a donkey.  ROFFIANS, like the donkey have to figure out why it is always a donkey that leads and if that is good or a bad thing. Right Wayne? — Mr.G. http://www.gink.com "the sage continues"

  gink.vcf

< 1K Download

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Question:

<SNIP IT’S OVER.  LET IT DIE. This Rupe thing is ripping up apart.  There are ROFFians on both side of the fence and each group will never totally agree with each other.  That’s okay. We can either continue bickering back and forth with nothing ever being resolved or we can just decide to be silent on the issue.  I choose silence. There are so many other things to talk about.

<SNIP Vern, you were a little over-zealous in your support of this action, and I did warn you that it might get ugly, and to be perhaps a little more circumspect. I am not censuring you in any way, you did what you believed was right, and in a good cause.  You stood up for something you believed in, and you have every right to be proud of it.  Do not let anybody else try to persuade you otherwise.  ROFF is made up of a lot of people, the vast majority are perfectly well aware that what was done was the correct thing to do, irrespective of any hair-splitting debates which may occur as an aftermath. I assume the fact that some of your letters are being touted as "hate-mail" etc is unsettling you. Don’t worry about it, there is nothing in those letters which could upset anybody at all with any sense. Simply the request to the sponsors to withdraw their support. You should see my mail !  I did not realise there were so many dangerous nutcases supporting the killing of Indians, I even got mail from some people claiming to be Indians, saying they supported old Rupe.  They really must be nuts. It will take more than something of this nature to "rip ROFF apart".  Try to calm down a bit.  Go fishing ! Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

I look at it a little different.  Yes, I was one of the more loud voices. However, I don’t believe anyone wanted FAOL to disappear.  I know I didn’t. Additionally, they don’t have to.  No one’s asking for that.  FAOL is a good web-site that has a lot of good information on it.  We only wanted the last article from Rupe removed.  That’s all.  It was a moral issue.  We took action regarding a possible resolution.  The longer FAOL resisted the more public anger grew.  That’s just normal. Now that the life of FAOL is in question, it’s like dancing on a dying friend.  I don’t see any glory or pride in this.  Furthermore, it’s not necessary.  With the new information about the possible demise of FAOL, the continued debate that has no resolution becomes meaningless.  If a resolution was possible, that would be different because the debate would have purpose.  There is no resolution and there will never be a resolution to the continued treads.  I then ask, why do the threads continuing?  What does everyone want from continuing the debate? Vern – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I totally agree.  I’ve even thought about leaving ROFF for a week or two until all the Rupe threads die out. IT’S OVER.  LET IT DIE. This Rupe thing is ripping up apart.  There are ROFFians on both side of the fence and each group will never totally agree with each other.  That’s okay. We can either continue bickering back and forth with nothing ever being resolved or we can just decide to be silent on the issue.  I choose silence. There are so many other things to talk about. There’s nothing you, I, or anyone can do at this point.  What FAOL chooses to do from here on out is up to themselves.  Everything up to this point is history.  I exhort you, let’s just continue with the ffing.  Please. I must say I’m a little bit disappointed in you on this one Vern.  In the first place, the Rupe thing is hardly ripping us apart.  There have been many threads on ROFF which generated a lot more fireworks than this one.  In fact, I’ve found the debate on this one to be remarkably civilized.  This is nothing compared to what goes on in the ubiquitous C&R vs C&K threads.  Hell, even a debate about the definition of ‘meniscus’ can get uglier than this. Secondly, if I’m not mistaken, yours was one of the first and loudest voices calling for action against FAOL.  Mind you, I don’t disapprove of your action; I quite agree that something needed to be done and heartily commend you for taking a lead in informing the sponsors of what was happening.  But it seems to me at this late date that for you to call an end to the whole process, when you were so instrumental in initiating it is a bit disingenuous, especially in light of the fact that Mike has been taking the vast majority of the heat. Again, I don’t have a problem with the action you took, but I am surprised at how little any of the critics had to say to you directly about it.  Now it looks as though you’re trying to duck out while everyone is still focused on Mike’s role and you have escaped unscathed. In short, you were instrumental in stirring up this hornets’ nest, it doesn’t look good for you to be too critical of those who pay attention to the hornets.

Response:

Hi Guys, I have read with interest many of the posts regarding Ole Rupe.  I also read his article.  I have also participated in many free speech arguments in my day.  Some included very competitive national moot court competitions during law school.  I felt it was unnecessary for me to add another $.02 worth of opinions since arguments on the many faceted side of this issue have already been made and made and…..  I just did not want to continue to perpetuate this NON FLY FISHING discussion.  I have seen, heard and made many of these arguments in the past.  (So, I started this non fly fishing discussion with a dab of fishing included) <g. Just FYI, at the present time of approximately 10:35 AM in California, there were 114 and counting posts in the To Whom it may Concern thread and 41 and counting on the FAOL Closure thread.  Whew, what passion! I have read many with interest, and it has been an education for me to see how many articulate and passionate individuals are out there in the fishing world.  I applaud you all for your stands on all sides of the issue. Continue to enjoy those threads, but I have a different motivation regarding the time I spend in ROFF notwithstanding my Mea Culpa re email postage stamps.  Oops, there goes my credibility! To give you a flavor of what we are usually discussing, the fly fishing out here in California is wonderful!  In the Central Valley, we are having a very late autumn.  The leaves on the trees are turning to their fall time brilliant yellows, reds and fire oranges.  I am fishing in light Orvis breathable waders and a light shirt under my fly vest.  The Kings River is producing with reluctance, but it does not matter one iota to me.  Being there is enough for me.  For the first time in my short fly fishing ‘career’ I have tied and caught fish on a size 24 Trico Spinners.  Who would have thunk it?  I still can’t believe my eyes when a 16" fish is caught on such a small bug! Nymphing has been my passion of late though.  I broke off 2 good fish using 6X tippet with a Prince Nymph due to my lack of skill in working fish.  I learned fishing in the early ’90’s going for bass.  I can’t seem to lighten up.  I sometimes still have want to SET THE HOOK.  Hopefully, time and practice will correct this fault. The best part is that I did not consider Old Rupe while I was there on the Kings River. Pete

Response:

I totally agree.  I’ve even thought about leaving ROFF for a week or two until all the Rupe threads die out. IT’S OVER.  LET IT DIE. This Rupe thing is ripping up apart.  There are ROFFians on both side of the fence and each group will never totally agree with each other.  That’s okay. We can either continue bickering back and forth with nothing ever being resolved or we can just decide to be silent on the issue.  I choose silence. There are so many other things to talk about. There’s nothing you, I, or anyone can do at this point.  What FAOL chooses to do from here on out is up to themselves.  Everything up to this point is history.  I exhort you, let’s just continue with the ffing.  Please. Vern – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Guys, I have read with interest many of the posts regarding Ole Rupe.  I also read his article.  I have also participated in many free speech arguments in my day.  Some included very competitive national moot court competitions during law school.  I felt it was unnecessary for me to add another $.02 worth of opinions since arguments on the many faceted side of this issue have already been made and made and…..  I just did not want to continue to perpetuate this NON FLY FISHING discussion.  I have seen, heard and made many of these arguments in the past.  (So, I started this non fly fishing discussion with a dab of fishing included) <g. Just FYI, at the present time of approximately 10:35 AM in California, there were 114 and counting posts in the To Whom it may Concern thread and 41 and counting on the FAOL Closure thread.  Whew, what passion! I have read many with interest, and it has been an education for me to see how many articulate and passionate individuals are out there in the fishing world.  I applaud you all for your stands on all sides of the issue. Continue to enjoy those threads, but I have a different motivation regarding the time I spend in ROFF notwithstanding my Mea Culpa re email postage stamps.  Oops, there goes my credibility! To give you a flavor of what we are usually discussing, the fly fishing out here in California is wonderful!  In the Central Valley, we are having a very late autumn.  The leaves on the trees are turning to their fall time brilliant yellows, reds and fire oranges.  I am fishing in light Orvis breathable waders and a light shirt under my fly vest.  The Kings River is producing with reluctance, but it does not matter one iota to me.  Being there is enough for me.  For the first time in my short fly fishing ‘career’ I have tied and caught fish on a size 24 Trico Spinners.  Who would have thunk it?  I still can’t believe my eyes when a 16" fish is caught on such a small bug! Nymphing has been my passion of late though.  I broke off 2 good fish using 6X tippet with a Prince Nymph due to my lack of skill in working fish.  I learned fishing in the early ’90’s going for bass.  I can’t seem to lighten up.  I sometimes still have want to SET THE HOOK.  Hopefully, time and practice will correct this fault. The best part is that I did not consider Old Rupe while I was there on the Kings River. Pete

Response:

Take it easy, Vern. We’ve had similar blow-ups here before, but eventually everyone chills out… About a week ago – at least a couple of days before Mike’s first post wrt RAOL, I responded to someone (I think it was Jon Cook) that the extended period of Peace On ROFF "was just the calm before the next storm". I had no idea I’d be THAT correct! /daytripper (ROFF is cyclical ;^) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I totally agree.  I’ve even thought about leaving ROFF for a week or two until all the Rupe threads die out. IT’S OVER.  LET IT DIE. This Rupe thing is ripping up apart.  There are ROFFians on both side of the fence and each group will never totally agree with each other.  That’s okay. We can either continue bickering back and forth with nothing ever being resolved or we can just decide to be silent on the issue.  I choose silence. There are so many other things to talk about. There’s nothing you, I, or anyone can do at this point.  What FAOL chooses to do from here on out is up to themselves.  Everything up to this point is history.  I exhort you, let’s just continue with the ffing.  Please.

Response:

I totally agree.  I’ve even thought about leaving ROFF for a week or two until all the Rupe threads die out. IT’S OVER.  LET IT DIE. This Rupe thing is ripping up apart.  There are ROFFians on both side of the fence and each group will never totally agree with each other.  That’s okay. We can either continue bickering back and forth with nothing ever being resolved or we can just decide to be silent on the issue.  I choose silence. There are so many other things to talk about. There’s nothing you, I, or anyone can do at this point.  What FAOL chooses to do from here on out is up to themselves.  Everything up to this point is history.  I exhort you, let’s just continue with the ffing.  Please.

I must say I’m a little bit disappointed in you on this one Vern.  In the first place, the Rupe thing is hardly ripping us apart.  There have been many threads on ROFF which generated a lot more fireworks than this one.  In fact, I’ve found the debate on this one to be remarkably civilized.  This is nothing compared to what goes on in the ubiquitous C&R vs C&K threads.  Hell, even a debate about the definition of ‘meniscus’ can get uglier than this. Secondly, if I’m not mistaken, yours was one of the first and loudest voices calling for action against FAOL.  Mind you, I don’t disapprove of your action; I quite agree that something needed to be done and heartily commend you for taking a lead in informing the sponsors of what was happening.  But it seems to me at this late date that for you to call an end to the whole process, when you were so instrumental in initiating it is a bit disingenuous, especially in light of the fact that Mike has been taking the vast majority of the heat.  Again, I don’t have a problem with the action you took, but I am surprised at how little any of the critics had to say to you directly about it.  Now it looks as though you’re trying to duck out while everyone is still focused on Mike’s role and you have escaped unscathed. In short, you were instrumental in stirring up this hornets’ nest, it doesn’t look good for you to be too critical of those who pay attention to the hornets.

Response:

snip<

No sweat, Vern.   This is just one of those discussions that helps bring another dimension to the faceless names here.   Nobody really gets too pissed off, and we get to learn a little bit about each other.   It’s not really a bad thing; it’s what we seem to be.   And after it’s over, we’re still friends (mostly <g).   Nobody would put any of this ahead of a day on the water.   Aside from a waste of bandwidth, it’s harmless, and sometimes fun. Joe F.

Response:

In short, you were instrumental in stirring up this hornets’ nest, it doesn’t

look good for you to be too critical of those who pay attention to the hornets.< As I said initially, I was out of town, missed the start.   Hmmm, Vern, eh?   Should I start all over again?  <g

Response:

Ah, yes, fishing!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <SNIP IT’S OVER.  LET IT DIE. This Rupe thing is ripping up apart.  There are ROFFians on both side of the fence and each group will never totally agree with each other.  That’s okay. We can either continue bickering back and forth with nothing ever being resolved or we can just decide to be silent on the issue.  I choose silence. There are so many other things to talk about. <SNIP Vern, you were a little over-zealous in your support of this action, and I did warn you that it might get ugly, and to be perhaps a little more circumspect. I am not censuring you in any way, you did what you believed was right, and in a good cause.  You stood up for something you believed in, and you have every right to be proud of it.  Do not let anybody else try to persuade you otherwise.  ROFF is made up of a lot of people, the vast majority are perfectly well aware that what was done was the correct thing to do, irrespective of any hair-splitting debates which may occur as an aftermath. I assume the fact that some of your letters are being touted as "hate-mail" etc is unsettling you. Don’t worry about it, there is nothing in those letters which could upset anybody at all with any sense. Simply the request to the sponsors to withdraw their support. You should see my mail !  I did not realise there were so many dangerous nutcases supporting the killing of Indians, I even got mail from some people claiming to be Indians, saying they supported old Rupe.  They really must be nuts. It will take more than something of this nature to "rip ROFF apart".  Try to calm down a bit.  Go fishing ! Tight lines ! Mike Connor

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You’re my man, Ken. I got your back.

Ditto.  In spades.

Response:

To Debate is interesting and often educational, to Argue, name call and belittle is not…

Is so.   Ignorant Twerp.      

Response:

Wolfgang the bully, writes:

<<Is so.   Ignorant Twerp.       Boy, I’m glad you did tell ol Jim to BMAIAL.  I have that one.  Even use it in my address for anti-spam.  Don’t know what I would do without it.  <g Dave L.

Response:

David, This is so off the mark that I really got a good laugh out of your post.  One thing I have never been accused of is to be a closet anything, or to hide behind anyone.  My wife would really get a kick out of this (BG).  We have a good friend living on Bainbridge Island, and my impression of the place is that a lot of spoiled aging yuppies lived there.  I’m afraid that you have reinforced that image in my mind. Ken, I expected more from someone with an edu address.  "Frogboy"??  (LOL).  I guess it fits that the edu address goes with living in a very sheltered environment. You want to use the word fuckin and you have to use ***’s??  As far as hard-earned flyfishing dollars, you should try to make your living in the real world (G). Kermit – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ken Oh they take it seriously. They’re the closet racist’s who provide a respectable chorus line to guys like Rupe, and love to hide behind well meaning folks who honestly wonder where the free speech line is, or who are honest political conservatives. The dead giveaway is that they have no bottom line. Ive run into them before here in the NW,  home of the Aryan Nations. They know that murderous remarks like Rupe’s are important because they intimidate minorities from participation in many activities and forums. Its very effective and a lot less risky that acting out their bullshit at work, bombing a church or killing someone on a dark road. They are gutless. They are wacko’s. But they are not stupid. Dave I am bothered by the article, but I would not have taken it seriously anyway.  But I am much more bothered by the pc mob mentality that I witnessed here.  I don’t feel that there is anything to be very proud off here. Blow it out yer ass, frogboy. Just because you’re too f***in’ stupid to take seriously the most vile and vicious racial epithet that can be hurled at Native Americans is no reason to demean the many good people of ROFF that are QUITE proud that this little piece of racist garbage is no longer sponsored by good companies competing for our hard earned flyfishing dollars. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Now I just have to figure out how to suspend a reference line over my head next time out on the pond or a lake… Michael Era

Question:

It’s our 2-year anniversary this weekend, and hubby and I had decided a couple of weeks ago that we’d go out to a nice restaurant for dinner.  Well, 2 nights ago he said he wanted to make a weekend of it and we could take a short trip somewhere.  I was so excite because 1) he never wants to take trips; and 2) I’d really been wanting to just get away for a couple of days for a long time coming, and this sounded perfect.  Well, this meant he’d have to work a late the rest of the week so he wouldn’t have to work this weekend.  I went to his work the night before and last night and helped out a bit.  I didn’t mind one bit even though I was having a bad week myself.  I just kept saying, just think of this weekend.  So I was really counting on it.  On our way home last night, I asked where he thought we could go this weekend.  He then said he was going to be too tired to go anywhere this weekend, and we’d do it next weekend.  I reminded him my mom was coming to visit that weekend.  So he said we’d do it some other time… which equates to never.   Believe me, every time we don’t have a definite date scheduled for something it never happens.  And we can’t schedule anything too far in advance now because of his erratic travel schedule. This has happenned before… where he’ll suggest something, get my hopes up, then it never happens.  Like this spring he suggested we take a weekend and go to one of the local resorts.  I said great.  Two weeks later when he hadn’t mentioned it further, I pulled out some brochures to look at with him.  He said he’d take care of the planning and not to push him on it (is looking at brochures pushing someone???).   Anyway, I never brought it up again, and the trip never happenned. To top things off, I went to the salon last night to lighten my hair (from dark brown -> medium brown) and I ended up blonde (kinda my fault, long story).  I’m going back this weekend to get it fixed (for free), but I have to sit through work today (including a meeting with the CEO of our company this morning) with blonde hair. OK, I feel better now.  Thanks for the ears.  Oh, and any advice on how to handle hubby’s lack of planning would be greatly appreciated. Melissa * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

From: melissa >So he >said we’d do it some other time… which equates to never.  

Ooooh I HATE that!!  Here’s what you do. The moment he says, "let’s go" you ask, "where to?"  The idea is to get him on the upswing and strike while the iron’s hot.  Get as much info from him at this time, ’cause as the days go by there will be more of a chance that he’ll change his mind. Once you have an idea of what he prefers, you take it upon yourself to make all the arrangements.  Don’t ask him what he thinks about this or that during the planning period… just do it, but do keep in mind his likes and dislikes…. as in don’t plan on a beach resort getaway if hubby mentioned going to the mountains in that preliminary conversation. When everything is arranged (and paid for) present him with the plan. Be prepared for a tantrum… and even for the possibility that you won’t be going anywhere.  In that case, remind him that there go $X that you’ll never get back. Also, be prepared for hubby to reproach the fact that you went ahead and made all the plans without him.  That’s when you *calmly* tell him exactly how it makes you feel when he promises something and then doesn’t come through. Explain that you didn’t want to be disappointed again so you took it upon yourself to plan the trip.  If nothing else, you’ll get started on communicating  about the problem.  Maybe it’ll break him of the bad habit of blowing smoke up your ass.  Good luck.

Response:

Melissa Quick, you have half a day to plan. Find a nice place that is not too far from home and relaxing. Pack your bag and his and as soon as he comes home, kidnap him. Tell him he has to do nothing just enjoy being with you and he can relax. Then drive off with him … Sorry, my imagination is running wild but I do feel for you. This is a hard situation to be in …. I think Gidget’s ideas are great though. Katie Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

melissa wrote: > reminded him my mom was coming to visit that weekend.  So he > said we’d do it some other time… which equates to never.

I can feel the disappointment oozing off the screen here on my end.   > Believe me, every time we don’t have a definite date > scheduled for something it never happens.  And we can’t > schedule anything too far in advance now because of his > erratic travel schedule.

Trent’s idea has merit (i.e., schedule non-refundable vacations, etc), but my guess is that you’re limited by his travel schedule.  If that’s the case, then you’ll have to gird yourself and dicuss how his behavior in this manner bothers you.  And THEN start scehduling non-refundable vacations!  :) > resorts.  I said great.  Two weeks later when he hadn’t > mentioned it further, I pulled out some brochures to look at > with him.  He said he’d take care of the planning and not to > push him on it (is looking at brochures pushing someone???).

It could be seen that way.  If he wanted to have children right now and you wanted to wait a few years, would his leaving a copy of "Parents" magazine laying around be seen as pushing by you?  Its all in the eye of the beholder.   You know what, though?  When you couple this vacation-ditching conduct with the cold feet house purchase, he does seem to have a thing about committing, though.  Its got to be exasperating. > To top things off, I went to the salon last night to lighten > my hair (from dark brown -> medium brown) and I ended up > blonde (kinda my fault, long story).  I’m going back this > weekend to get it fixed (for free), but I have to sit > through work today (including a meeting with the CEO of our > company this morning) with blonde hair.

Missie!  I think you look devine as a blonde!  If you’re serious about having it fixed this weekend, I’m sorely tempted to make a comment about your husband having a short window of opportunity for role-playing sex involving a blonde.  But sometimes discretion wins.  I won’t say anything!  :) > OK, I feel better now.  Thanks for the ears.  Oh, and any > advice on how to handle hubby’s lack of planning would be > greatly appreciated.

Have you read Passionate Marriage yet?  Its a given in marriage that the low desire partner controls the amount of any activity (in this case, vacationing). But you know what?  I don’t think its a low desire issue here…I think its a reluctance to commit to some course of behavior.  Why don’t *you* commit him instead (not to a mental institution, although I bet that’s crossed your mind Drew

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floridanewbie wrote in message

<37c0e0d7.117195…@news.flatoday.infi.net>… >On 23 Aug 1999 01:16:51 GMT, gidgeto…@aol.com (GidgetOliv) wrote: ><snip> >>What do you folks think of homeschooling? (I know there are newsgroups dealing >>with the topic, but I want to know what people *here* think.)  Just curious… >Education involves so much more than just learning from books … how >about the social aspects of learning about different kinds of people, >getting along in groups and learning how to settle conflicts in an >acceptable manner?

There are many many schools where this doesn’t apply. I don’t think that the alternatives to public education sprang up purely because of doubts that the children were receiving anadequate education. I really think that there is more to it. These alternatives are a way of coping with situations that are otherwise intolerable for many. >Additionally, in a good classroom, the teacher will let the group >stumble around trying to solve problems or discuss aspects of an >assignment … even wrong answers or peculiar tangents contain much >useful knowledge .. that is missing in home schooling.

The qualifier there is "good classroom". They’re becoming more rare with each passing day. I know several good teachers who are very frustrated at the way things have developed over the past couple of decades. >Then there are the athletic aspects … unless home school parents have >a dozen kids, most physical activites involving teamwork can’t be done.

Sure they can – kids can still play hockey and baseball etc on the community teams. >Granted, if a person lives in the middle of an ice field in Alaska or is >otherwise isolated, home schooling beats no schooling but in general, >while people mean well, I suspect a great many kids are being ill-served >with such efforts.

The studies are showing (at least where I live) that home schooled children are on par or above children who are attending public, private, and charter schools. >Instead of yanking the kids out of school, find out >exactly what is being done and then supplement those efforts with the >things you think are missing.

What if it’s not the missing things that bother you? What if it’s the things that are being done? >By the way, I seriously doubt many parents are competent across the >board other than for the lowest levels of school …

I thinkmany parents don’t realize the work that is involved. Im’ not sure it’s a matter of competency but there is a huge time commitment for each passing grade. You work for it just as much (if not more) than your children do. >the first few years would seem to put the child at a big disadvantage >when s/he is thrown into the arena with kids who already know the ropes >and who have formed strong friendships.

One has to be very careful to introduce social situations whenever possible to avoid that type of scenario. — ….my two cents ….

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GidgetOliv wrote in message

<19990822211651.24654.00001…@ng-ch1.aol.com>… >What do you folks think of homeschooling? (I know there are newsgroups dealing >with the topic, but I want to know what people *here* think.)  Just

curious… It depends on the situation. It takes a lot of time (and I do mean a lot)… you have to be very careful that it doesn’t put a wedge between you and your kid(s) cause you’re now the parent and the teacher… kind of hard to find time to relax sometimes. The plus side is that you have a whole lot more input into your child’s education and you can be actively involved in shaping their future. You might want to check out the area that you live in to see what kind of support is given to homeschooling families. In our area, we have the full resources of the schools in our district as well as staff from the distance learning center. The newsgroups and your community papers will probably give you more of a lead about what’s available. Before you make the choice, you might want to check other options – like an online school,perhaps, where the kids have a teacher but you have the kids at home. It would help you decide which would be best if you know why you are looking for alternatives. — ….my two cents ….

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On 23 Aug 1999 01:16:51 GMT, gidgeto…@aol.com (GidgetOliv) wrote: <snip> >What do you folks think of homeschooling? (I know there are newsgroups dealing >with the topic, but I want to know what people *here* think.)  Just curious…

Education involves so much more than just learning from books … how about the social aspects of learning about different kinds of people, getting along in groups and learning how to settle conflicts in an acceptable manner? In classrooms, students see that people learn at different rates and in different ways.  Some do better with quantitative methods while others thrive with qualitative methods.  Home schooling most likely will only use one method; that risks stunting the potential growth that might otherwise occur. Additionally, in a good classroom, the teacher will let the group stumble around trying to solve problems or discuss aspects of an assignment … even wrong answers or peculiar tangents contain much useful knowledge .. that is missing in home schooling. Then there are the athletic aspects … unless home school parents have a dozen kids, most physical activites involving teamwork can’t be done. Granted, if a person lives in the middle of an ice field in Alaska or is otherwise isolated, home schooling beats no schooling but in general, while people mean well, I suspect a great many kids are being ill-served with such efforts.   Instead of yanking the kids out of school, find out exactly what is being done and then supplement those efforts with the things you think are missing. By the way, I seriously doubt many parents are competent across the board other than for the lowest levels of school … to home school for the first few years would seem to put the child at a big disadvantage when s/he is thrown into the arena with kids who already know the ropes and who have formed strong friendships. Floridanewbie

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GidgetOliv asked: >What do you folks think of homeschooling

It has become a very popular alternative here in Alaska. It is working very well and has attempted to alleviate as many of the shortcomings as possible. We have one public school district (open state-wide) where you get a computer when you enroll and attend classes on-line. The homeschooled kids have their own graduation ceremony here in Fairbanks. We have 3 students in our karate school whose monthly dues are paid by the school district to satisfy their physical education requirement (or some other elective). It wouldn’t work for me, though. I am not confident that I have the right temperament to teach my own children. I don’t know whether I could be objective enough. — Sourdough sez: We would worry a lot less about what other people think of us, if we realized how seldom they do.

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From: floridanew…@hotmail.com  (floridanewbie) >trent_m…@hotmail.com (Trent) wrote: ><snip> >>–      What have you done to save your schoolchild this year? >Just sneaking in here Trent … >that list of things (security and safety) people should know about their >children’s schools is at Gavin deBecker’s site:

This post reminds me…. What do you folks think of homeschooling? (I know there are newsgroups dealing with the topic, but I want to know what people *here* think.)  Just curious…

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In article <11f733ec.1e956…@usw-ex0106-048.remarq.com>, melissa  <missie.johnsonNOcrS…@eudoramail.com> wrote: >It’s our 2-year anniversary this weekend, and hubby and I >had decided a couple of weeks ago that we’d go out to a nice >restaurant for dinner.  Well, 2 nights ago he said he wanted >to make a weekend of it and we could take a short trip >somewhere.  I was so excite because 1) he never wants to

Well… I would have gone anyway.  Yes, even if that meant going by yourself.  Because you know why… I get the feeling that this scenario plays itself out again and again because nothing otherwise happens.   Yes, I would have said, "Oh, that’s too bad. Will you really be too tired? Oh, well, I’m going to go.  I really wish you’d come to." Then do it. He either would not have come, in which case you could have had a nice relaxing weekend to yourself. If he had come, then you would have rousted him out of his old lazy habits, and the two of you could have had a great time. He "ruins" things for you so often because in a way, you let him. amy — alyo…@bluemarble.net                   http://www.bluemarble.net/~alyoung                         Speaking only for myself.

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I’m not a big fan especially after 3-4th grade because the kids get educaion from various people who are trained very highly in the subjects they’re teaching.  There’s no way I have the resources to give my child the kind of round education in music, chemistry, and algebra that three different teachers who have degrees to teach these specifics can.  I’m a big supporter of private and magnet schools. Tamara – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> GidgetOliv said… > This post reminds me…. > What do you folks think of homeschooling? (I know there are newsgroups dealing > with the topic, but I want to know what people *here* think.)  Just curious…

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Nothing serious but sometimes people refuse to do things if they have problems with strangers. I mean maybe he gained weight and he doesn’t like to see people, maybe he doesn’t have nice out fits, maybe he doesn’t like the car..etc U know anything and it could be nothing but being busy with work. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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I think for some people homeschooling could work out. The people who I know who homeschool have had all good things to say, and their kids have ended up doing great on their SAT’s and in college. Personnally though, I would love to be able to teach my kids and have that family time before they grow up and move on. But, I don’t think I could do justice to their education. I am well educated, and excelled in school, but kids today are learning more, and learning it different then I did even 10 yrs. ago. I also think that kids have to experience the socializing with their peers. I hate when kids are teased, and the bickering that goes on amongst the children at school, but I also realize that kids learn how to adjust, and learn that in their life they are going to run into people that don’t see eye to eye with them. I don’t believe that school is only for education. School teaches you life, socialization, and commitments, and responsibilities. Just my 2 cents worth momalot – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -GidgetOliv wrote: > From: floridanew…@hotmail.com  (floridanewbie) > >trent_m…@hotmail.com (Trent) wrote: > ><snip> > >>–      What have you done to save your schoolchild this year? > >Just sneaking in here Trent … > >that list of things (security and safety) people should know about their > >children’s schools is at Gavin deBecker’s site: > This post reminds me…. > What do you folks think of homeschooling? (I know there are newsgroups dealing > with the topic, but I want to know what people *here* think.)  Just curious…

– ned!

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do something for yourself…..go to a movie go shopping just do something gary

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Sorry I misunderstood.  I realize that some people just like to get to where they’re going and not have to bothered with the details. I Agree with you!  I think we all feel that way sometimes about something. But if this guy is this way.  Why does he seem to get so pissed when she tries to take the initiative?  Also, the worries about whether you can afford it or not might be valid.  Can you afford these trips Melissa?  Are you 100% aware of all financial situations in your marriage?  Make sure you know all about his and your debt and responsibilities.  Because, If he works like a dog for a vacation and you help.  Then, all of the sudden he is too tired to go and worried about the money. There might be something he is afraid to share.  Maybe he is just more worried about spending or working up debt on the credit cards or something.  You should save for a vacation.  Not just up and go and think you will just put it on the "card" and pay for it later.  This is how you get upside down in debt.  Be careful, I think lots of relatively new marriages have these problems. L8R, Carl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -GidgetOliv wrote: > From: Carl mcent…@earthlink.net > >Yeah, or maybe he’ll just start blowing all of his vacation days from that > >point on > >fishing with the guys.  I would be careful dropping that kind of bomb on a > >guy. > Absolutely!  But I never meant for her to keep it a secret… just to take him > up on it but be in charge of all the planning. > My partner does this every year… he’s usually the one to suggest vacation > destinations, but I’m the one who gets to do all the booking and planning. > Not complaining in the least, as I realize that some people just like to get to > where they’re going and not have to bothered with the details.

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>I >do like the idea of planning something myself with advance >notice from him.  He wouldn’t be thrilled, but as long as it >wasn’t something he’d openly opposed… he’d go along with >it.

Some people just don’t like the element of surprise.  You can always tell him that "his" idea to get away is an excellent one, and that he shouldn’t worry because you’ll take care of the arrangements.  That way you won’t be surprising him with plans "out of the blue" Also, you mentioned that he whines about whether or not you can afford it.  It got me thinking… maybe during that first conversation, when he says "let’s get away" you could say "I don’t know… can we afford it?"  If it’s *his* idea to get away, he might come back with something like, "Sure we can… we’re just talking [blank] bucks or so."  If he does, then you can use his figure and plan around that budget.  Then if he whines, you remind him that it was all his idea in the first place.  :)

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On Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:37:06 GMT, trent_m…@hotmail.com (Trent) wrote:

<snip> >–      What have you done to save your schoolchild this year?

Just sneaking in here Trent … that list of things (security and safety) people should know about their children’s schools is at Gavin deBecker’s site:   http://www.gdbinc.com/ Floridanewbie

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> Can you afford these trips Melissa?  Are you 100% aware of > all financial situations in your marriage?

Yes, we can afford the kind of weekend trip he was talking about.  About our financial situation, I know more about it than he does… I’m the bill payer in the house, and I see everything, from credit card info to checkcard info to what checks went where. Melissa * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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What about planning something that you can afford? Trade houses with a family member or friend out of town? Even a picnic can be a getaway if you plan right. There are specials posted on the web for hotels and stuff….. last minute deals……. usually the ones in your own town are quite reasonable. — ….my two cents …. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -melissa wrote in message <0221c012.928fa…@usw-ex0102-014.remarq.com>… > Besides, the last time I surprised him with a night away >from home, all he did was whine about whether or not we >could afford it.  It really ruined the evening.

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From: Carl mcent…@earthlink.net >Yeah, or maybe he’ll just start blowing all of his vacation days from that >point on >fishing with the guys.  I would be careful dropping that kind of bomb on a >guy.

Absolutely!  But I never meant for her to keep it a secret… just to take him up on it but be in charge of all the planning. My partner does this every year… he’s usually the one to suggest vacation destinations, but I’m the one who gets to do all the booking and planning. Not complaining in the least, as I realize that some people just like to get to where they’re going and not have to bothered with the details.

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Yeah, or maybe he’ll just start blowing all of his vacation days from that point on fishing with the guys.  I would be careful dropping that kind of bomb on a guy. Doing it in stages might be better.  For instance, if you have to fly, mention you purchased the airline tickets for the "trip" today (get the kind you can schedule departure after the fact).  Then ask when it would be a good time to sit down and figure out the dates so you can schedule the departure and hotel reservations. Then, at the point you notice his interest is peaking and he has accepted the fact you are going.  Ask him to help plan or investigate some activities to do while you are there and express that you want to make sure you do things he would like. Carl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -GidgetOliv wrote: > From: melissa > >So he > >said we’d do it some other time… which equates to never. > Ooooh I HATE that!!  Here’s what you do. > The moment he says, "let’s go" you ask, "where to?"  The idea is to get him on > the upswing and strike while the iron’s hot.  Get as much info from him at this > time, ’cause as the days go by there will be more of a chance that he’ll change > his mind. > Once you have an idea of what he prefers, you take it upon yourself to make all > the arrangements.  Don’t ask him what he thinks about this or that during the > planning period… just do it, but do keep in mind his likes and dislikes…. > as in don’t plan on a beach resort getaway if hubby mentioned going to the > mountains in that preliminary conversation. > When everything is arranged (and paid for) present him with the plan. Be > prepared for a tantrum… and even for the possibility that you won’t be going > anywhere.  In that case, remind him that there go $X that you’ll never get > back. > Also, be prepared for hubby to reproach the fact that you went ahead and made > all the plans without him.  That’s when you *calmly* tell him exactly how it > makes you feel when he promises something and then doesn’t come through. > Explain that you didn’t want to be disappointed again so you took it upon > yourself to plan the trip.  If nothing else, you’ll get started on > communicating  about the problem.  Maybe it’ll break him of the bad habit of > blowing smoke up your ass.  Good luck.

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> Find a nice place that is not too far from home and > relaxing. Pack your bag and his and as soon as he comes > home, kidnap him. Tell him he has to do nothing just enjoy > being with you and he can relax. Then drive off with him > …

As much as I’d *love* to do this, I don’t think he’d be too happy at all, which would cause him much misery on what should be a happy occasion.  Just the fact that I went ahead and planned something he’d nixed would really piss him off.  Besides, the last time I surprised him with a night away from home, all he did was whine about whether or not we could afford it.  It really ruined the evening. Thanks for the advice though you guys, I appreciate it.  I do like the idea of planning something myself with advance notice from him.  He wouldn’t be thrilled, but as long as it wasn’t something he’d openly opposed… he’d go along with it. Melissa * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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> Missie! I think you look devine as a blonde! If you’re > serious about having it fixed this weekend, I’m sorely > tempted to make a comment about your husband having a > short window of opportunity for role-playing sex involving > a blonde. But sometimes discretion wins. I won’t say > anything!

Thanks for the discretion, Drew.  Actually, I’m at auburn now (I had it fixed just a little while ago).  Not what I wanted, but not blonde, either.  You’ve gotta understand, I’m definitely not one of those complexions that is good for blonde hair.  My natural hair color is so dark a brown it’s almost black!  Anyhow, I like the auburn… I feel much much better. Melissa * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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Well, then go off and have a fun weekend by yourself. If he insists on spoiling things, don’t allow yourself to be dragged down to his level. Yes, it’s your anniversary … he’s shown a disregard for your feelings in this matter. Take yourself to a nice hotel or B&B, snuggle up with a brandy and a good book, and spoil yourself. –Welmoed

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Melissa, what would happen if you planned the weekend…Get flowers, dress the house up a little with decorations like it was someplace else.  Then, make sure you send up a flare to the families/friends that call often to resist unless it’s an emergency.  Get a new cute "lingerie" type item and have a romantic dinner planned with his favorite meal.  It could be pizza by candlelight if that’s what he loves.  Then, during the evening maybe post-meal while your stomachs are settling, before the "passionate replay of the consummation of your marriage", mention how you wanted to give him a "weekend away" without the hassle of traveling somewhere and that you hope he would try harder to plan a short trip somewhere for you soon.  I for one would love this myself…maybe I should keep a copy of this for my wife. Good luck, Carl P.S.  All marriages have bumps and you shouldn’t feel bad about maybe seeking some biblically based counseling to help with your communication skills and understanding each others different needs. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -melissa wrote: > It’s our 2-year anniversary this weekend, and hubby and I > had decided a couple of weeks ago that we’d go out to a nice > restaurant for dinner.  Well, 2 nights ago he said he wanted > to make a weekend of it and we could take a short trip > somewhere.  I was so excite because 1) he never wants to > take trips; and 2) I’d really been wanting to just get away > for a couple of days for a long time coming, and this > sounded perfect.  Well, this meant he’d have to work a > late the rest of the week so he wouldn’t have to work this > weekend.  I went to his work the night before and last night > and helped out a bit.  I didn’t mind one bit even though I > was having a bad week myself.  I just kept saying, just > think of this weekend.  So I was really counting on it.  On > our way home last night, I asked where he thought we could > go this weekend.  He then said he was going to be too tired > to go anywhere this weekend, and we’d do it next weekend.  I > reminded him my mom was coming to visit that weekend.  So he > said we’d do it some other time… which equates to never. > Believe me, every time we don’t have a definite date > scheduled for something it never happens.  And we can’t > schedule anything too far in advance now because of his > erratic travel schedule. > This has happenned before… where he’ll suggest something, > get my hopes up, then it never happens.  Like this spring he > suggested we take a weekend and go to one of the local > resorts.  I said great.  Two weeks later when he hadn’t > mentioned it further, I pulled out some brochures to look at > with him.  He said he’d take care of the planning and not to > push him on it (is looking at brochures pushing someone???). > Anyway, I never brought it up again, and the trip never > happenned. > To top things off, I went to the salon last night to lighten > my hair (from dark brown -> medium brown) and I ended up > blonde (kinda my fault, long story).  I’m going back this > weekend to get it fixed (for free), but I have to sit > through work today (including a meeting with the CEO of our > company this morning) with blonde hair. > OK, I feel better now.  Thanks for the ears.  Oh, and any > advice on how to handle hubby’s lack of planning would be > greatly appreciated. > Melissa > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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Question:

He’ll be learning in the warmwater venue.  Bluegills, sunfish, rock bass, etc.  I’m wondering if it would be easier to learn the "feel" of casting with the heavier rod, or if the heavier rod would be a setback for the little guy.  I know a buddy I converted to fly fishing prefered the feel of an 8 when learning to cast.  He said he couldn’t feel what was going on as well with a 5. Share your experience…. Bob Scott

Bob:   I would guess your buddy was bigger and stronger.  To an eight year old, I still think a typical eight weight would feel like a telephone pole, as another responder noted.   I liked the six, because the rod was light enough, but the line weight seemed to be enough to get them going.  I wouldn’t go longer than 8 ft., either.      Just read Mr. Popp’s post, and everything he said is very true and worth remembering.  Particularly the part about not bothering to bring a rod yourself for the first few times out, at least.  It removes temptation, and allows you to really focus on making sure the kid has the best time possible.  And, patience, patience, patience…… when he’s had enough by his standards – not yours, you fishing fool – call it a day and get some ice cream. Mark Faulkner

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      The rod is not as important as patience as long as he can handle it. The first thing to do is get him interested in fishing and the best way to do that is for him to catch fish. Fly fishing is a bit much for an 8 year old but a zebco closed face spinning rod fishing a bober and worms is ideal. Kids learn quick but when the action slows they lose interest quickly too. Pick a place with plenty of bream, leave your rod at home (you will be too busy helping him to fish). Catch enough to fry up for one small meal and go home (during a lull in the bites).

Many people who have successfully taught children to fish find a reel is unnecessary and a confusing complication for small children.  Either a cane pole or a fly rod with a fixed length of line, say 15 ft., allows the child to fish bait to a depth of say 6 ft. without bothering about the reel, and to present a fly on or near the surface anywhere up to 20 ft. distance.  The child can then concentrate on presentation first, or hooking and playing afterward, without needing to think about letting out more line or winding it in. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Hi, I missed the first post, but I disagree a bit with some of the info in the follow up. I have been teaching kids fly-fishing for a lifetime, and I have tried many methods. the first thing i would mention is that I do agree with a 6 or 7 wgt rod (and line obviously, you HAVE to have a balanced outfit).On the other hand, make it an 8′6" or even 9′. I don’t know if you’ve ever tried an 8′ but there is a significant diffeence. As I’ve said before, the best rod set-up is one that can cat easily, and to me an 8′6" 6/7 wgt is perfect. I think the small kid, small rod thing is a carryover from shooting – start ‘em on a .20 gauge shotgu, yadda, yadda… I also agree with the thought that you not bring a rod the first times, and would add, take ‘em somewhere their bound to catch fish – any fish !! Last summer taught my 7 yr. old cousin, his first fly fish was a smallmouth bass, and he loved it !!! I have taught as young as 4 yr olds, so go for it, and have fun!!! Bill Bill Curry Tight Lines Guide Service Lockeport, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.tightlines.ns.ca

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m setting up an outfit for my girlfriend’s 8-year-old son for Easter.  She said "Don’t buy a rod…"   –actually, she said ‘fly fishing pole’  – "my brother-in-law has one he doesn’t use.  He’s sending it up for Easter with his daughter when she visits.  He says it’s fiberglass, and about 6" taller than he is."    He’s about six feet. I got it today.  If it’s not a spinning rod, it’s a dead ringer.  It’s 6′6", with a 12"-long, fat, untapered cork grip, 1"-wide sliding blue-anodized rings, and conventional two-footed guides.  It’s labeled "CONOLON live fiber AIR FLITE 412,  NARMCO, INC,  COSTA MESA, CA"   I guess I better pick up something else. Anyway, at WalMart, they carry a Cortland 8′6" 6-weight IM6 rod for about $37.  They also have a cheaper "graphite composite" Garcia (I think) for about $22.  It’s an 8-weight.  I have an older St.Croix 8′6" fiberglass 8-weight I’d be willing to part with.   It seems like the lighter rod would be better for the little guy (He’s pretty small).   I’m a bachelor, and never taught a child that age to cast.  I’m very anxious to get him started. Should I buy the better rod for a child that age?  Or should I give him my old St.Croix?  What level or proficiency should I expect, or strive for? Please give me a little advice, Dads out there! — Bob Scott

       The rod is not as important as patience as long as he can handle it. The first thing to do is get him interested in fishing and the best way to do that is for him to catch fish. Fly fishing is a bit much for an 8 year old but a zebco closed face spinning rod fishing a bober and worms is ideal. Kids learn quick but when the action slows they lose interest quickly too. Pick a place with plenty of bream, leave your rod at home (you will be too busy helping him to fish). Catch enough to fry up for one small meal and go home (during a lull in the bites).         I’ve taught a son 3 daughters, and 4 grandsons to fish and am starting on a great grandson who is 2 1/2 his attention span has increased to 10 minutes none started on flys and the son and only one grandson are really interested in fly fishing that much so far.          Remember the important thing is he have fun, catch fish and learn the simple things in fishing. He can develope the rest as he gets older. Have Patient he’ll learn if it’s fun and not too complicated.                                                          John Popp                                                        in Sanford Fl.

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Hi Robert, I started my son casting and fishing at age 8. I gave him a fiberglass 7 1/2′ rod for a 5 line. It worked great for him.  Graphite was not available at that time. I suggest an inexpensive, light rod. At 8, Those heavy 8 wt and above feel like swinging a telephone pole to a small kid. Spring is around the corner, be sure to find some spawn areas with Bluegill for him to catch. The best and sure way to give a kid a good time catching fish. Good Luck ! — William Endicott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m setting up an outfit for my girlfriend’s 8-year-old son for Easter. She said "Don’t buy a rod…"   –actually, she said ‘fly fishing pole’ — "my brother-in-law has one he doesn’t use.  He’s sending it up for Easter with his daughter when she visits.  He says it’s fiberglass, and about 6" taller than he is."    He’s about six feet. I got it today.  If it’s not a spinning rod, it’s a dead ringer.  It’s 6′6", with a 12"-long, fat, untapered cork grip, 1"-wide sliding blue-anodized rings, and conventional two-footed guides.  It’s labeled "CONOLON live fiber AIR FLITE 412,  NARMCO, INC,  COSTA MESA, CA"   I guess I better pick up something else. Anyway, at WalMart, they carry a Cortland 8′6" 6-weight IM6 rod for about $37.  They also have a cheaper "graphite composite" Garcia (I think) for about $22.  It’s an 8-weight.  I have an older St.Croix 8′6" fiberglass 8-weight I’d be willing to part with.   It seems like the lighter rod would be better for the little guy (He’s pretty small).   I’m a bachelor, and never taught a child that age to cast.  I’m very anxious to get him started. Should I buy the better rod for a child that age?  Or should I give him my old St.Croix?  What level or proficiency should I expect, or strive for? Please give me a little advice, Dads out there! — Bob Scott

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –       The rod is not as important as patience as long as he can handle it. The first thing to do is get him interested in fishing and the best way to do that is for him to catch fish. Fly fishing is a bit much for an 8 year old but a zebco closed face spinning rod fishing a bober and worms is ideal. Kids learn quick but when the action slows they lose interest quickly too. Pick a place with plenty of bream, leave your rod at home (you will be too busy helping him to fish). Catch enough to fry up for one small meal and go home (during a lull in the bites).        I’ve taught a son 3 daughters, and 4 grandsons to fish and am starting on a great grandson who is 2 1/2 his attention span has increased to 10 minutes none started on flys and the son and only one grandson are really interested in fly fishing that much so far.         Remember the important thing is he have fun, catch fish and learn the simple things in fishing. He can develope the rest as he gets older. Have Patient he’ll learn if it’s fun and not too complicated.                                                         John Popp                                                       in Sanford Fl.

John,     This guy is ready to progress from the Zebco stage already.  He lives, eats and breathes fishing, and fly fishing is what he wants to learn.   I bought him a fly tying kit for Christmas… you should see him go at it! Some very interesting stuff comes off that vise!     We will definitely be starting out with the local bluegills… when the water temp gets out of the 40s.  I think I’ll buy him the nice, light Cortland IM6 rod.  He’s casted my soft Orvis 9′ 5-wt with my hand over his, but not alone.  That’s the extent of his experience so far.  This intense interest in fly fishing developed this winter.  I gave him a beginner’s book on fly fishing, and his Mom’s been reading it to him.  He told me he already knows how to cast; "From ten o’clock to noon!" he says.     Should be fun. Thanks everyone for the suggestions. Bob Scott

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I’m setting up an outfit for my girlfriend’s 8-year-old son for Easter.  She said "Don’t buy a rod…"   –actually, she said ‘fly fishing pole’  – "my brother-in-law has one he doesn’t use.  He’s sending it up for Easter with his daughter when she visits.  He says it’s fiberglass, and about 6" taller than he is."    He’s about six feet.

If he is 6 ft tall at 8 years old, Bob, you are in BIG trouble if he doesn’t take a shine to you by, say, age 12.  Accordingly, I would probably be looking at a Sage, Loomis, Winston, etc. Anyway, at WalMart, they carry a Cortland 8′6" 6-weight IM6 rod for about $37.  They also have a cheaper "graphite composite" Garcia (I think) for about $22.  It’s an 8-weight.  I have an older St.Croix 8′6" fiberglass 8-weight I’d be willing to part with.   It seems like the lighter rod would be better for the little guy (He’s pretty small).   I’m a bachelor, and never taught a child that age to cast.  I’m very anxious to get him started. Should I buy the better rod for a child that age?  Or should I give him my old St.Croix?  What level or proficiency should I expect, or strive for? Please give me a little advice, Dads out there! — Bob Scott

Seriously, having worked with a few kids (and my daughters) on introductions to fly casting, I would suggest the lighter rod (but not too light).  I have a 1970’s vintage 6′6" Eagle Claw fiberglass that was pretty good when they were 8-10 years old, and would gladly lend it to you if that was feasible.  But at 10 or so, I started them on an 8 ft six weight "old" graphite – actually, an Orvis purchased about 1979.  This turned out to be a very good rod for them to work with.  However, since I gather you do a lot of surf/ocean fishing, and all my experience in teaching is on Pennsylvania trout streams, none of this may be relevent. Mark Faulkner

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I’m setting up an outfit for my girlfriend’s 8-year-old son for Easter. She said "Don’t buy a rod…"   –actually, she said ‘fly fishing pole’ (  – "my brother-in-law has one he doesn’t use.  He’s sending it up for Easter with his daughter when she visits.  He says it’s fiberglass, and about 6" taller than he is."    He’s about six feet. If he is 6 ft tall at 8 years old, Bob, you are in BIG trouble if he doesn’t take a shine to you by, say, age 12.

No… I meant my girlfriends BROTHER-IN-LAW is 6-feet!   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Anyway, at WalMart, they carry a Cortland 8′6" 6-weight IM6 rod for about $37.  They also have a cheaper "graphite composite" Garcia (I think) for about $22.  It’s an 8-weight.  I have an older St.Croix 8′6" fiberglass 8-weight I’d be willing to part with.   It seems like the lighter rod would be better for the little guy (He’s pretty small).   I’m a bachelor, and never taught a child that age to cast.  I’m very anxious to get him started. Should I buy the better rod for a child that age?  Or should I give him my old St.Croix?  What level or proficiency should I expect, or strive for? Please give me a little advice, Dads out there! — Bob Scott Seriously, having worked with a few kids (and my daughters) on introductions to fly casting, I would suggest the lighter rod (but not too light).  I have a 1970’s vintage 6′6" Eagle Claw fiberglass that was pretty good when they were 8-10 years old, and would gladly lend it to you if that was feasible.  But at 10 or so, I started them on an 8 ft six weight "old" graphite – actually, an Orvis purchased about 1979.  This turned out to be a very good rod for them to work with.  However, since I gather you do a lot of surf/ocean fishing, and all my experience in teaching is on Pennsylvania trout streams, none of this may be relevent. Mark Faulkner

Mark,     He’ll be learning in the warmwater venue.  Bluegills, sunfish, rock bass, etc.  I’m wondering if it would be easier to learn the "feel" of casting with the heavier rod, or if the heavier rod would be a setback for the little guy.  I know a buddy I converted to fly fishing prefered the feel of an 8 when learning to cast.  He said he couldn’t feel what was going on as well with a 5. Share your experience…. Bob Scott

Response:

I’m setting up an outfit for my girlfriend’s 8-year-old son for Easter.  She said "Don’t buy a rod…"   –actually, she said ‘fly fishing pole’  – "my brother-in-law has one he doesn’t use.  He’s sending it up for Easter with his daughter when she visits.  He says it’s fiberglass, and about 6" taller than he is."    He’s about six feet. I got it today.  If it’s not a spinning rod, it’s a dead ringer.  It’s 6′6", with a 12"-long, fat, untapered cork grip, 1"-wide sliding blue-anodized rings, and conventional two-footed guides.  It’s labeled "CONOLON live fiber AIR FLITE 412,  NARMCO, INC,  COSTA MESA, CA"   I guess I better pick up something else. Anyway, at WalMart, they carry a Cortland 8′6" 6-weight IM6 rod for about $37.  They also have a cheaper "graphite composite" Garcia (I think) for about $22.  It’s an 8-weight.  I have an older St.Croix 8′6" fiberglass 8-weight I’d be willing to part with.   It seems like the lighter rod would be better for the little guy (He’s pretty small).   I’m a bachelor, and never taught a child that age to cast.  I’m very anxious to get him started. Should I buy the better rod for a child that age?  Or should I give him my old St.Croix?  What level or proficiency should I expect, or strive for? Please give me a little advice, Dads out there! — Bob Scott

Response:

Question:

 going to the hiawasse Nov 1 for the weekend and would like some info on what to tie up and how the fishing is this time of year? please e mail me thank you, Kent K. Anderson

Response:

 going to the hiawasse

Are you asking about the Hiwassee in southeastern Tennessee? If so, maybe I can give you some info. Dave — Visit Dave Teffeteller’s Fly Fishing Guides page http://www.olfart.com

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 going to the hiawasse Nov 1 for the weekend and would like some info on what to tie up and how the fishing is this time of year? please e mail me thank you, Kent K. Anderson

Kent: You might find something on LJ Decuir’s page: http://funnelweb.utcc.utk.edu/~ldecuir/default.html —Rich

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Question:

discussing a trip to this area for some Atlantic Salmon fishing. We are going to fly into Portland Maine. Any info on best time, lodges, guides, patterns and equipment would be helpful.

1.  You should probably book with a fishing lodge in Labrador.  (You may be legally obliged to, because of lack of roads, rescue teams etc.)  Call the Newfoundland provincial tourist agency in St. John’s. 1B. There are also salmon lodges in Quebec and New Brunswick. 2.  Portland Maine seems the wrong place to start, i.e. has no road links to Labrador and may have no air links either.  You should probably start in either Montreal or St. John’s (on the island of Newfoundland;  Labrador is on the Canadian mainland) the two likely sources of air taxi links to camps in Labrador. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Starting with the correct spelling:-) Anyway, my Dad and I were discussing a trip to this area for some Atlantic Salmon fishing. We are going to fly into Portland Maine. Any info on best time, lodges, guides, patterns and equipment would be helpful. thanx in advance, Tom.

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Question:

I’m a native of Florida and have been tying my own flies for some time now. I have an assortment of 3 that Snook/Redfish and Trout kill in the backcountry of Central and South Florida. If I get good response from this message I’ll post a photo in the and sell them my mail order. Let me know what you think. -Mark Ballard I have been flyfishing in Jenson Beach area of Florida without great results..I would be interested in information on your {hot flies and how to fish them.     Thanks, TomI plan on a "business trip" to central Florida the first part of May and

plan to fish in the Titusville area.  I would like to know more about your flies and other patterns that are successful in the area.

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Mark: I am headed to S.W.Florida- would really like to have some trout and redfish flies and also the best type of places to fish them. Thanks-Alex

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I would like to hear about those flies also. Jerry Virzi

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For all these fish there are several types of flies that are very successful: 1)  Clouser Minnows 2)  Lefty’s Deceivers 3)  Crazy Charlies and other shrimp/crab immitations. These all work well on the Texas flats, assume they will work in Flordia or elsewhere.

Response:

I’m a native of Florida and have been tying my own flies for some time now. I have an assortment of 3 that Snook/Redfish and Trout kill in the backcountry of Central and South Florida. If I get good response from this message I’ll post a photo in the and sell them my mail order. Let me know what you think. -Mark Ballard

Response:

I’m a native of Florida and have been tying my own flies for some time now. I have an assortment of 3 that Snook/Redfish and Trout kill in the backcountry of Central and South Florida. If I get good response from this message I’ll post a photo in the and sell them my mail order. Let me know what you think. -Mark Ballard

I have been flyfishing in Jenson Beach area of Florida without great results..I would be interested in information on your {hot flies and how to fish them.     Thanks, Tom

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Question:

Chuck,          I have a BBS devoted to fly fishing and have several nice pictures of rainbows, and a nice brown,  all in the 20" range.  The number is 303-530-2331. No charge.  See ya, Terry

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Can anyone tell me where I can download nice color pictures of Brown or rainbow trout?

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Question:

: : I’ll send you money if you send me time and good health. Name your price. : good health is just luck, but money could sure ease out the time part… : 200K and some plane tickets to Valpraiso would be a good start. Of  Which Valpraiso are you speaking of.   : course, I’ll need some new baggy shorts and some t-shirts with lewd : sayings… : TimWalker Bryan

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I’ll always be willing to trade money for a few hours chest deep in the surf ! Doesn’t always pan out though. Today I was supposed to fly to Martha’s Vineyard with a pilot friend to fish Lobsterville beach for the day, but got scheduled for a teleconference so I had to bag it. Yes, I could have done a cellular thing, but to me a scheduled interruption during fishing defeats the whole purpose. Well turns out it’s pouring, and I’m not sure my friend got out, as the ceiling’s pretty low here. Consoled myself by going down to Hampton Beach and making a few casts in the surf for lunch hour. No fish, but the combined smells of salt water and dripping rain gear have the most rejuvenating effect on me ! And people wonder why I find it necessay to live, work, and spend my entire existence within 3 miles of the ocean :-                                                                 jc

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: I’ll always be willing to trade money for a few hours chest deep in the surf ! : Doesn’t always pan out though. Today I was supposed to fly to Martha’s : Vineyard with a pilot friend to fish Lobsterville beach for the day, but got : scheduled for a teleconference so I had to bag it. Yes, I could have done a : cellular thing, but to me a scheduled interruption during fishing defeats : the whole purpose. Well turns out it’s pouring, and I’m not sure my friend : got out, as the ceiling’s pretty low here. Consoled myself by going down to : Hampton Beach and making a few casts in the surf for lunch hour. No fish, : but the combined smells of salt water and dripping rain gear have the most : rejuvenating effect on me ! And people wonder why I find it necessay to live, : work, and spend my entire existence within 3 miles of the ocean :- :                                                               jc :                                                      

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God I’m sick of work.  Let’s go fishin’… Any billionaires on the net ? Release me from this toil ! Never mind me…just having a mid-life crisis in cyberspace… Tim Walker

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: I’ll send you money if you send me time and good health. Name your price. good health is just luck, but money could sure ease out the time part… 200K and some plane tickets to Valpraiso would be a good start. Of course, I’ll need some new baggy shorts and some t-shirts with lewd sayings… TimWalker

Response:

: God I’m sick of work.  Let’s go fishin’… Any billionaires on the net ? : Release me from this toil ! I’ll send you money if you send me time and good health. Name your price.                                                        __ John Quill Taylor                                     / / Writer at Large                                      / /   Hewlett-Packard, Storage Systems Division    __     /_/ / Boise, Idaho U.S.A.                         /_/  __ _ Telephone: (208) 396-2328 (MDT = GMT – 6)     /  \  / Snail Mail: Hewlett-Packard                    / \             11413 Chinden Blvd                 \             Boise, Idaho 83714                   _/             Mailstop 230                            _/                                                   _/       "When in doubt, do as doubters do." -jqt                   haiti, rwanda, cuba, bosnia, … we have a list,              where is our schindler?

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