Question:

Get Delorme’s ‘Topo 4′ or any of the other topographical software packages. They contain a majority of the roads and trails that exist in the U.S. and armed with a GPS receiver and a laptop computer you could more than likely cross the entire country with a minimum of pavement. Someone with savy map and compass skills could pre-select the route and go it on paper, although the lap top and GPS allow you to deviate when you want, or when necessary, as the real time conditions and choices come upon you. Bob Walker

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a dream. It is a nice dream. In this dream there is an interstate network of 4×4 trails . Imagine being able to drive from Charlotte NC to Charleston WV and have it take 2 weeks to get there. Imagine finding trails everywhere you go. Some among you say "That would be too expensive. " or " Who’s house are you going to bulldoze for your hobby?"

Response:

I have a dream. It is a nice dream. In this dream there is an interstate network of 4×4 trails . Imagine being able to drive from Charlotte NC to Charleston WV and have it take 2 weeks to get there. Imagine finding trails everywhere you go. Some among you say "That would be too expensive. " or " Who’s house are you going to bulldoze for your hobby?" My answer is: It would be very cheap. And no one’s house would have to torn down. We have this network of high voltage power transmission lines. It criss-crosses the entire nation. There are almost no houses built under these power lines. Most people don’t want to live near them.   Here is how we pay for it. Tax breaks for power companies. Every power company has at least one bulldozer.  Those same companies have the right-of-way for the land under their lines. The places that have no roads would be bulldozed one time and then left to deteriorate.  Just so the power companies would not have to face any liablility (and also so they can maybe make a buck or 2 in the process) there could be permits issued by the CO for a small fee. Anyone who leaves trash would have their permits revoked and given the proper fine for littering. Think of the backwater places that will get money from the four wheel drives going by. Think of the fun that could be had. Sure there are places that no truck will be able to cross. There could be access trails to and from those areas to the main road. Wouldn’t it be grand? Everyone get together and bug your representative about this. Let’s get that interstate trail system. Nature lovers UNITE!

Response:

I have a dream. It is a nice dream. In this dream there is an interstate network of 4×4 trails . Imagine being able to drive from Charlotte NC to Charleston WV and have it take 2 weeks to get there. I

Of course that cheap beer you’ve been drinking is bad for you.  If you’d wake up you’d discover that there are already many miles of off roading, some interstate, in the eastern US.  Try Tellico in eastern TN, over the mountains to NC.  In southern KY a network, some requiring very minor on road excursions, can take you into TN.   In the west, all you need to do is look.  Try the UT/CO border for some very good examples.   The idea of Government allowing unlimited access in this age of terrorism won’t fly.  Be happy with what we’ve got. Dick Burg

Response:

Most power lines are on private property, built using right-of-ways. Though the power company can enter the land to maintain their lines, etc., the land is still private, and subject to the owner’s restrictions. You’d have to negoiate with every land owner (and there would be many) to make this work. Good try, though! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have a dream. It is a nice dream. In this dream there is an interstate network of 4×4 trails . Imagine being able to drive from Charlotte NC to Charleston WV and have it take 2 weeks to get there. Imagine finding trails everywhere you go. Some among you say "That would be too expensive. " or " Who’s house are you going to bulldoze for your hobby?" My answer is: It would be very cheap. And no one’s house would have to torn down. We have this network of high voltage power transmission lines. It criss-crosses the entire nation. There are almost no houses built under these power lines. Most people don’t want to live near them.   Here is how we pay for it. Tax breaks for power companies. Every power company has at least one bulldozer.  Those same companies have the right-of-way for the land under their lines. The places that have no roads would be bulldozed one time and then left to deteriorate.  Just so the power companies would not have to face any liablility (and also so they can maybe make a buck or 2 in the process) there could be permits issued by the CO for a small fee. Anyone who leaves trash would have their permits revoked and given the proper fine for littering. Think of the backwater places that will get money from the four wheel drives going by. Think of the fun that could be had. Sure there are places that no truck will be able to cross. There could be access trails to and from those areas to the main road. Wouldn’t it be grand? Everyone get together and bug your representative about this. Let’s get that interstate trail system. Nature lovers UNITE!

Peter D. Hipson NEHOG (New England Hummer Owners Group) checked monthly.

Response:

Of course that cheap beer you’ve been drinking is bad for you.  If you’d wake up you’d discover that there are already many miles of off roading, some interstate, in the eastern US.  Try Tellico in eastern TN, over the mountains to NC.  In southern KY a network, some requiring very minor on road excursions, can take you into TN.  

All well and good, but those places are far from me. The closest half-decent trail is 50 miles from here.  I have spent many a day looking for someplace around here to go off road. I have been reduced to construction sites and mudholes in parking lots.  Sure, there are atv trails galore, but atv’s require no skill to operate. Any kid can get on one and go anywhere. What is the fun in that? Every non-paved road in this area has either a gate or "NO TRESSPASSING" sign on it.  There are literally thousands of 4 wheel drive SUV’s in the greater Charlotte area.  The only place to go is Uwharrie (50 miles away)  which is lame unless it has been raining for days.  No one can make use of their 4×4 here.  Do you realise that Lake Norman has 800 miles of shoreline and 0 4×4 trails that access it? There used to be a few, on power line rights-of-way, but the snobs that live along the lake forced Duke Power to gate, post and trench every one of them. (Can’t have those poor folk fishing around their million dollar shacks, now can we?) This is a problem that needs addressing. At least in this area. I am looking for the cheapest, least difficult method of correcting this problem. It is surprising that some farmer hasn’t made a 4×4 park yet. With all this drought I would think that would be a good way to make money. I would pay $50 for a season pass, and so would thousands of others. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -In the west, all you need to do is look.  Try the UT/CO border for some very good examples.   The idea of Government allowing unlimited access in this age of terrorism won’t fly.  Be happy with what we’ve got. Dick Burg

Response:

deja.com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a dream. It is a nice dream. In this dream there is an interstate network of 4×4 trails . Imagine being able to drive from Charlotte NC to Charleston WV and have it take 2 weeks to get there. Imagine finding trails everywhere you go. Some among you say "That would be too expensive. " or " Who’s house are you going to bulldoze for your hobby?" My answer is: It would be very cheap. And no one’s house would have to torn down. We have this network of high voltage power transmission lines. It criss-crosses the entire nation. There are almost no houses built under these power lines. Most people don’t want to live near them.   Here is how we pay for it. Tax breaks for power companies. Every power company has at least one bulldozer.  Those same companies have the right-of-way for the land under their lines. The places that have no roads would be bulldozed one time and then left to deteriorate.  Just so the power companies would not have to face any liablility (and also so they can maybe make a buck or 2 in the process) there could be permits issued by the CO for a small fee. Anyone who leaves trash would have their permits revoked and given the proper fine for littering. Think of the backwater places that will get money from the four wheel drives going by. Think of the fun that could be had. Sure there are places that no truck will be able to cross. There could be access trails to and from those areas to the main road. Wouldn’t it be grand? Everyone get together and bug your representative about this. Let’s get that interstate trail system. Nature lovers UNITE!

In the west a lot of the power lines are thoruhg Government land and they need trails and access anyway to maintian them.  A worthy idea and it will get you most of your western states.  Since the Eastern states don’t have as much (if any?) government land… That’s another problem.

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Question:

Taking a little jaunt to these areas.  Got any favorite campground for us tenters about Libby, and Rock Creek?  Any better guide services around Dillon or Wise River?    How’s Rock Creek and Yaak fishing?     Thanks. Schuh-fly

Response:

We went to Dillon 2 weeks ago for a few days.  The upper section of the Big Hole is closed to fishingnow, when we were there we were surprised at how low the Beaverhead and Big Hole were.  The water levels in the rivers and creeks are extremely low.  I live in Helena and work at a sporting good store, the reports that we’re getting from custormers is that Rock Creek fishing is poor due to low water.  Fishing has been great on the Missouri where the water level is low, but not low enough to cause concern yet.

Taking a little jaunt to these areas.  Got any favorite campground for us tenters about Libby, and Rock Creek?  Any better guide services around Dillon or Wise River?    How’s Rock Creek and Yaak fishing?     Thanks. Schuh-fly

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Taking a little jaunt to these areas.  Got any favorite campground for us tenters about Libby, and Rock Creek?  Any better guide services around Dillon or Wise River?    How’s Rock Creek and Yaak fishing?     Thanks. Schuh-fly

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Question:

Opie writes: Ok, I concede redeye gravy an grits. Opie

Heeeehaaaaa.  A yankee teachin’ a pooh boy how to eat!  Heyyyahhh.  Georgia ice cream!!!!!!   Course, a good vodka to help it along is always welcome.  <g Dave LaCourse

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Jeff,   Those southern guys put gravy on everything.

They just *told* you it was gravy<g. — Charlie…

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Ernie Harrison writes: Jeff,   Those southern guys put gravy on everything. Ernie Hell, there are few things better than good old country ham, red eye gravy and grits (good grits — none of that instant stuff). Dave, whose marriage to two southern belles is obviously showing.

Huh?  I thought they only did that in Utah.  Hey Verrrrrnnnn!

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Jeff, You obviously need a bit more Southern acculturation. Opie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you fellas can’t handle *Grits,* just leave them to us real southern folk. Being a northern guy, I didn’t understand the problem with grits.  Ya see, I thought they were Cream O Wheat, so I just put brown sugar and milk on em.  I always thought grits were fine until I heard about stuff like gravy and butter and salt on em!!! — Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

Response:

Jeff,    Those southern guys put gravy on everything. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Being a northern guy, I didn’t understand the problem with grits.  Ya see, I thought they were Cream O Wheat, so I just put brown sugar and milk on em.  I always thought grits were fine until I heard about stuff like gravy and butter and salt on em!!! Jeff

Response:

Ernie Harrison writes: Jeff,   Those southern guys put gravy on everything. Ernie

Hell, there are few things better than good old country ham, red eye gravy and grits (good grits — none of that instant stuff). Dave, whose marriage to two southern belles is obviously showing.

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Except *GRITS.* Opie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jeff,    Those southern guys put gravy on everything. Ernie Being a northern guy, I didn’t understand the problem with grits.  Ya see, I thought they were Cream O Wheat, so I just put brown sugar and milk on em.  I always thought grits were fine until I heard about stuff like gravy and butter and salt on em!!! Jeff

Response:

Ok, I concede redeye gravy an grits. Opie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ernie Harrison writes: Jeff,   Those southern guys put gravy on everything. Ernie Hell, there are few things better than good old country ham, red eye gravy and grits (good grits — none of that instant stuff). Dave, whose marriage to two southern belles is obviously showing.

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If you fellas can’t handle *Grits,* just leave them to us real southern folk.

Being a northern guy, I didn’t understand the problem with grits.  Ya see, I thought they were Cream O Wheat, so I just put brown sugar and milk on em.  I always thought grits were fine until I heard about stuff like gravy and butter and salt on em!!! — Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I look forward to the Times on Wednesday morning, more so than any other morning of the week, because of the recipes in the Living Arts section. I was shocked, stunned and disgusted to find in today’s paper recipes for…I can barely bring myself to type it Ohmygawd. Grits … in the Times. Shoot me now, I’ve seen it all. Jeffie can have my Budweiser and Waldo my Django Rheinhart records. http://www.nytimes.com/library/dining/042600grits.html — Ken Fortenberry

The way you scoffed buscuits and gravy at Tootsie’s I’d always thought you to be a grits fan.  Thought you’d be pleased when the Times ran it. Don’t that beat all . . . Peter

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If they called it polenta would you be so upset? It’s essentially the same thing. Peter G. Aitken

damn I thought grits was cream of wheat with sand in it…. Flyfish

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If they called it polenta would you be so upset? It’s essentially the same thing. Peter G. Aitken damn I thought grits was cream of wheat with sand in it…. Flyfish

Nah – couldn’t be – cream of wheat and sand actually has FLAVOR!

Response:

Polenta is made from whole stone ground cornmeal. That would imply some flavor to be had. Grits are made from hominy. That’s what is left after soaking corn in a lye solution and removing the bran or kernel. The original "Better eating through chemistry!". I’m from down south and I never could get used them myself. MT

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If they called it polenta would you be so upset? It’s essentially the same thing. Peter G. Aitken

Response:

Buy a good set of gravel guards, keeps the grit out.

I got the neoprene ones with the velcro closures.  Real easy to put on and very effective for keeping grits out but they also make breathing somewhat problematic.

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If you fellas can’t handle *Grits,* just leave them to us real southern folk.  Cream-O-Shit, some comparison! Opie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Buy a good set of gravel guards, keeps the grit out. I got the neoprene ones with the velcro closures.  Real easy to put on and very effective for keeping grits out but they also make breathing somewhat problematic.

Response:

If you fellas can’t handle *Grits,* just leave them to us real southern folk.  Cream-O-Shit, some comparison! Opie

you’re damn tootin! thank god i had me a plateful this morning, o/w i wouldn’t have been able to land that big ‘ole ‘bow from yer drift did you and jeffie (who despises grits, but loves marshmellows) get any more fish after i left? i caught a couple of small brookies twitchin’ the fly back downstream on the way out. waldo

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damn I thought grits was cream of wheat with sand in it…. Flyfish

When I was stationed at Ft. Jackson SC back in the 60’s they would occasionally serve some white stuff for breakfast. If a northener asked what it was the cook would tell him cream of wheat and of course the reply to a southerner was grits. Half the mess hall would put milk & suger on it, the other half salt & pepper. Thank God I was cadre and didn’t have to eat anything I couldn’t identify.      Jim * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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Walt, I can’t speak for Jeff, but my life has no meaning.  Does that answer your question? Opie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you fellas can’t handle *Grits,* just leave them to us real southern folk.  Cream-O-Shit, some comparison! Opie you’re damn tootin! thank god i had me a plateful this morning, o/w i wouldn’t have been able to land that big ‘ole ‘bow from yer drift did you and jeffie (who despises grits, but loves marshmellows) get any more fish after i left? i caught a couple of small brookies twitchin’ the fly back downstream on the way out. waldo

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Buy a good set of gravel guards, keeps the grit out. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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Walt, I can’t speak for Jeff, but my life has no meaning.  Does that answer your question? Opie

yeah… it tells me ya got in the cooler waldo

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I look forward to the Times on Wednesday morning, more so than any other morning of the week, because of the recipes in the Living Arts section. I was shocked, stunned and disgusted to find in today’s paper recipes for…I can barely bring myself to type it Ohmygawd. Grits … in the Times. Shoot me now, I’ve seen it all. Jeffie can have my Budweiser and Waldo my Django Rheinhart records. http://www.nytimes.com/library/dining/042600grits.html — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I was shocked, stunned and disgusted to find in today’s paper recipes for…I can barely bring myself to type it Ohmygawd. Grits … in the Times. Ken Fortenberry

GRITS!  Wonderful!  Why Ken; don’t you know grits are the closest thing you can have to nothing and still have something??!!  They are the base requirement to serving red-eye gravey! They are also not off-topic to fly fishing.  A good breakfast of grits fortifies the intrepid fly fisher-person for the day with an extra fast energy supply from the starches, sticks with you to aswage hunger, and passes along slowly enough to keep you from having to peel out of your waders around 10:30. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I look forward to the Times on Wednesday morning, more so than any other morning of the week, because of the recipes in the Living Arts section. I was shocked, stunned and disgusted to find in today’s paper recipes for…I can barely bring myself to type it Ohmygawd. Grits … in the Times. Shoot me now, I’ve seen it all. Jeffie can have my Budweiser and Waldo my Django Rheinhart records. http://www.nytimes.com/library/dining/042600grits.html — Ken Fortenberry

um…ken, i think you transposed…no way i’m takin the budweiser.  give it to waldo, he’ll drink anything.  but the records might work. jeff

Response:

If they called it polenta would you be so upset? It’s essentially the same thing. Peter G. Aitken

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I look forward to the Times on Wednesday morning, more so than any other morning of the week, because of the recipes in the Living Arts section. I was shocked, stunned and disgusted to find in today’s paper recipes for…I can barely bring myself to type it Ohmygawd. Grits … in the Times. Shoot me now, I’ve seen it all. Jeffie can have my Budweiser and Waldo my Django Rheinhart records. http://www.nytimes.com/library/dining/042600grits.html — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

If they called it polenta would you be so upset? It’s essentially the same thing.

Right, and a lump of coal and a diamond are essentially the same thing. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Question:

I was organizing my fly box and found that some of the flies had hooks which were rusty. Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts about what should be done with these flies  -  should they be thrown out, could they be repaired, does it matter that I use rusty hooks when fishing, etc. As well, is there a way of ensuring that hooks will not rust after use. Any thoughts are much appreciated. Jon H.

Response:

Not sure I would use rusty hooks. You can prevent hooks from rusting in the future by making sure they are dried out before sticking back into fly box. Most logical approach is to dry them all on a table after a day’s fishing and then place them back into dry fly box for storage before next trip.(hopefully a short time) Regards from Montreal John Brkich

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I was organizing my fly box and found that some of the flies had hooks which were rusty. Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts about what should be done with these flies  -  should they be thrown out, Jon H.

Yes! Yes! Yes! Throw out! Just your luck someday you’ll hook the best trout of your life – some magnificent rainbow, 6/8 pounds – he’ll leap out of the water and show you his beauty and grace. Your heart will start to race and then he’ll break off.  When you reel in you’ll notice he didn’t bust your leader, or pop the fly off the end. You’ll notice the bend of the hook broken off.  OUCH!! Joel Axelrad

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I was organizing my fly box and found that some of the flies had hooks which were rusty. Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts about what should be done with these flies  -  should they be thrown out, could they be repaired, does it matter that I use rusty hooks when fishing, etc. As well, is there a way of ensuring that hooks will not rust after use. Any thoughts are much appreciated. Jon H.

  Flies are designed to deteriate quickly in wet conditions for the fished sake. At the cost of flys dump any rusted,aint woth lost fish. next time you get back from fishing open the box so moisture isn’t traped. In the south east your air conditioner will dry them, in the south west the dry air does the trick. In the rest of the country, the wifes hair dryer works well.                                                          John Popp                                                       in Sanford Fl.

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Question:

You don’t need a video to tell you that if the lines breaking you need a higher wt line.  When guides say to you "there’s no way you need more than a 4lb tippet on that river" what they really mean is that IFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF you had the shuttle, boat and knowledge of where the holes were, that even though the current was raging back at the public fishing area you could fish 2-4lb leader in the deep wide holes they fish.  They don’t know that you need a 10lb leader back where the currents raging and the fish can get out sideways in it.  So when they tell you there’s no way you need anything bigger than a 5.1lb tippet (or whatever they claim is the max wt used by "real fishermen")

Unless one has no ability at all to play a fish properly, he will certainly land more fish on a heavier tippet.   At the same time, it is certainly possible to successfully land a big fish on a very light tippet.   On the Salmon River, though, (and anywhere for that matter) you need to balance more than just landing a fish against tippet strength.   If you play a fish for 45 minutes on a 4 lb tippet, everyone around you has to keep their lines out of the water and thumbs up their asses while you have a good time all by yourself.   And when you have it on the beach, it will be dead beat and no candidate for c&r if you are so inclined.   On the other hand, boy was that fun. If you tie on a big heavy tippet, you’ll be able to put a lot more pressure on the fish and get it to the beach more quickly.   Go too far in this direction, however, and you may as well be one of the brainless meat fishermen spin casting with 30 lb mono to haul ‘em in. For me, a guy of below average ability, I’ve found 8 or 10 lb to be quite sufficient on the Salmon R. to give me a good balance of sport, success, and courtesy.   I will add that if you are breaking off a lot, be sure it’s not your knots.

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You don’t need a video to tell you that if the lines breaking you need a higher wt line.  When guides say to you "there’s no way you need more than a 4lb tippet on that river" what they really mean is that IFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF you had the shuttle, boat and knowledge of where the holes were, that even though the current was raging back at the public fishing area you could fish 2-4lb leader in the deep wide holes they fish.  They don’t know that you need a 10lb leader back where the currents raging and the fish can get out sideways in it.  So when they tell you there’s no way you need anything bigger than a 5.1lb tippet (or whatever they claim is the max wt used by "real fishermen") Tie your own tappered leaders.  I was reading in a book on al fly fishing just the other nite that the author reccomends making your tappered leader from 40, 30, 20 and 18in of material of 25, 20, 15, and 10lb line respectively.  Good luck, I hope this has been some help. Fished the Salmon River in Pulaski, New York with a fly rod this week and found the experience to be quite different from that of dry fly fishing.  I hooked and broke off three fish and would like any recommendations on:  books/videos relate to this type of fishing, recs on a good entry level rod and reel for

– Cordially, Mike McNally Speculators may do no harm as bubbles on a steady stream of enterprise. But the position is serious when enterprise becomes the bubble on a whirlpool of speculation.               –John Maynard Keynes

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You don’t need a video to tell you that if the lines breaking you need a higher wt line.  When guides say to you "there’s no way you need more than a 4lb tippet on that river" what they really mean

<snip Amen. I have used a short (7 ft) 10 or 12 lb tippet on my sink tip, and a 12 ft 8 lb tippet for salmon and steelhead for years. Yep, I lose some still, but I have caught (and released) more than 150 salmon this fall alone.

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I just got Flies for Steelhead by Farrow Allen and Dick Stewart from Lyons Press (~$20 softcover). The photography is quite good and it has a thorough collection of patterns from different regions of the country. The flies in the photos are tied either by the inventor of the pattern or by a well known tyer from the region of origin.  Great Lakes Steelhead – A Guided Tour for Fly Anglers from Back Country Press ($20) is a great book by Bob Linsenmann and Steve Nevala (fun reading).  There is a brief but very practical sections on techniques, equipment, etc in the beginning. The rest of the book is a collection of essays collected from these guys going fishing with a number of guides in their home waters.  Fly Fishing for Salmon and Steelhead of the Great Lakes by Ken Filkins ($17 Wilderness Books – hard to find but available on www.amazon.com).  This book mostly emphasizes chuck and duck type fishing but has a really good section on fish attitudes towards different types of flies & presentations thus explaining (or at least stating) why many west coast techniques are only effective during a short period of the steelhead’s migration into midwestern tributaries.  I’ve been using a Scientific Anglers System 2m 8/9.  It’s a reasonably inexpensive and very reliable disc drag reel.  The regular System 2 is quite heavy but I don’t know if the 2m is still in production.  As far as a rod is concerned I bought myself the cheapest one I could find, a St. Croix 9ft 9 weight Pro-Graphite.  With all the brush I run through, the slippery rocks, ice, hands made numb and clumsy by the bitter chill, I wouldn’t want to risk damaging an expensive stick.  Just letting you know what has worked well for me.  I don’t have the experience nor the moeny to really tell you what other options are available to you. Good Fishing.    Mu Young Lee         Ann Arbor, MI  o             oooo                          o   o   o o   o o o  o – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fished the Salmon River in Pulaski, New York with a fly rod this week and found the experience to be quite different from that of dry fly fishing.  I hooked and broke off three fish and would like any recommendations on:  books/videos relate to this type of fishing, recs on a good entry level rod and reel for

Response:

Fished the Salmon River in Pulaski, New York with a fly rod this week and found the experience to be quite different from that of dry fly fishing.  I hooked and broke off three fish and would like any recommendations on:  books/videos relate to this type of fishing, recs on a good entry level rod and reel for

It seems to be normal to break off 3 fish in this sort of fishing: but not normal to break off 100 per cent of hookups. The range of tackle is from medium (say 6 weight rod with 2x or 6 lb. tippets) to strong (8 or 9 weight, tippets 0X or 12 lb.) This river is sufficiently free of obstructions that you can fish the lighter tackle — provided you have a first-class reel, because its drag is important.  (Heavier tackle is useful in smaller Michigan or Ontario steelhead rivers.) Winter freshwater salmon and steelhead seem not to be leader shy.  They may or may not avoid sideways drag: but the essential point is to be able to present the fly as deep as the fish’s holding depth, whatever that is.  I have known people to make special sinking leaders (coated with powdered led embedded in glue) for this purpose. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Fished the Salmon River in Pulaski, New York with a fly rod this week and found the experience to be quite different from that of dry fly fishing.  I hooked and broke off three fish and would like any recommendations on:  books/videos relate to this type of fishing, recs on a good entry level rod and reel for

Response:

Question:

Scheduled for two weeks in Grand Cayman in June. Besides diving, I want to get in some flyfishing on the flats for bonefish, ect.. Need advice from someone who has been there on locations and fly selection. Tight lines, Tim Briggs

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Scheduled for two weeks in Grand Cayman in June. Besides diving, I want to get in some flyfishing on the flats for bonefish, ect.. Need advice from someone who has been there on locations and fly selection. Tight lines, Tim Briggs

Hi Tim, I have not gotten there yet, but have some info. An article was written a few years ago about fly fishing the Cayman’s. I guess there are bonefish, tarpon and permit on all three islands. The most famous location is the Southern Cross Club on Little Cayman Island. They have a web site. If you go on your own I would take a #7 or 8 weight rod with a floating line. Some 9′ or longer 0x leaders and 0x tippet. I would get the hardest, stiffest leaders you can find. I would take some Snapping Shrimp patterns in tan, brown, olive and pink. Find the shallowest water on the island where you can wade out far and stay in water that is less than 2 feet deep. Yellow to brown polarized glasses are necessary. When I first tried for bones, I just pretended I was nymphing to trout in the shallows of a large lake. I just put the fly in froint of them and moved it very little. Morning and evening is best with an incoming tide. If you just hook one, it will be worth it. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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Question:

     Seems like we’ve finally accomplished something?  :-)

and what would that "something" be?         -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

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 It seems to me that fly casting is using the weight of the line to carry the lure or (fly) to the fish. I’m attracted to this definition…..

At the age of 46, I’d be inclined to agree.  But here’s a story from my youth you may find amusing.  Back in ‘63, I was in Sequoia camping with a ‘Y’ group of youths my age.  We were there for fishing and hiking. ‘Fishing’ was the operative word, since no one had ‘caught’ anything.  At that time, FF wasn’t nearly the designer sport it is today.  I had only seen a couple people doing it and I was a fair distance away:  totally naive to the special gear required for the graceful casts. Taking my self quite seriously, I started whipping a spoon around using my 6′ ft, fiberglass, $12 Thrifty spinning rod and reel.  There I was, whippin that thing back and forth and every once in a while lettin the spoon drag through the pool.  On one of my "backcasts" I literally yanked a little 8 incher right out of the water, totally surprising both of us.  (This was the only trout caught by anyone on the trip!).  Subsequent flailing, for an hour or so produced no more fish.  Go figure.  I guess I put ‘em all down. (The most amazing part of this story is that I still have both of my eyes).  Now you can easily convince this 46 year old that aint flyfishin, but don’t try to convince that 12 year old kid.   Now we’re getting somewhere. Fly fishing is the use of a fly rod to propel anything so light it needs the weight of the line to get anywhere. The use of lightweight bobbers and multiple flies can still be called "fly fishing".

I guess this pretty well rules out spin casting a clear bubble attached above a 6′ leader having a dry fly attached.  Personally, this works for me because the result is to drift flies with a presentation that fools the fish in the same way your defined technique does.  (I don’t do this anymore, but it certainly wouldn’t chap my hide if I say someone plying ff only waters in this fashion, especially if it was a young’un)

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   Seems like we’ve finally accomplished something?  :-)

(hee hee) What is flyfishing ? If you have to ask or try and define it, you’ll never understand it. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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        Seems like we’ve finally accomplished something?  :-) and what would that "something" be?

the first internet gigabyte waste of bandwith for "1997 Useless Threads" category…… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  It seems to me that fly casting is using the weight of the line to carry the lure or (fly) to the fish. I’m attracted to this definition…..  Now we’re getting somewhere. Fly fishing is the use of a fly rod to propel anything so light it needs the weight of the line to get anywhere. The use of lightweight bobbers and multiple flies can still be called "fly fishing". RALPH may or may not want an amemdment to exclude the use of lightweight spoons or wigglers. Note: that doesn’t mean we can’t fish with bass poppers….It just puts a tight limit on how we categorize them.   Seems like we’ve finally accomplished something?  :-)

Maybe it could be simpler, fly fishing is fishing with a fly line. — Charlie…

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 It seems to me that fly casting is using the weight of the line to carry the lure or (fly) to the fish. I’m attracted to this definition…..

  Now we’re getting somewhere. Fly fishing is the use of a fly rod to propel anything so light it needs the weight of the line to get anywhere. The use of lightweight bobbers and multiple flies can still be called "fly fishing". RALPH may or may not want an amemdment to exclude the use of lightweight spoons or wigglers. Note: that doesn’t mean we can’t fish with bass poppers….It just puts a tight limit on how we categorize them.    Seems like we’ve finally accomplished something?  :-)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m going to make one post about the definition of ff and then say no more.  It seems to me that fly casting is using the weight of the line to carry the lure or (fly) to the fish. As long as the lure is so light as to require a line to carry it to the fish it seems you are fly casting. As for what is fly fishing, you now have many different lures or (flies) that fit into the definition above. These lures or flies range from #32 up to 8" long or longer. I maintain you are fly fishing as long as you NEED the weight of the line to carry the fly to the fish. I don’t see how the use of boats or strike indicators, or anything else enters into the definition. Certainly, some types of fly fishing are more difficult than others. It doesn’t mean the others aren’t fly fishing. I think we should encourage all kinds of fly fishing. The young person we help now, with his poppers for largemouth, may someday be a #32 hook in-the-film emerger fisherman. That’s all brothers. Hope you all have a great summer of fly fishing. Jim

I’m attracted to this definition having posted something similar some time back. It concentrates on one major factor that makes flyfishing different; the cast. It also seems more consistent with the more ‘catholic’ outlook most flyfishers have these days (includes me) – adopt what works within rather broad confines. I do think though we have to exclude obvious ‘lures’ (spoons spinners etc) but don’t know what to do about "flys" that act like lures –  spoons flies tullis wigglers, plastic bills on bass poppers etc. So many of these things are constructed the same way we tie flies so though I’m tend to be not convinced they are flies I use them rather than condemn them. Ralph H replace "spamsucks" with direct for email reply.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m going to make one post about the definition of ff and then say no more.  It seems to me that fly casting is using the weight of the line to carry the lure or (fly) to the fish. As long as the lure is so light as to require a line to carry it to the fish it seems you are fly casting. As for what is fly fishing, you now have many different lures or (flies) that fit into the definition above. These lures or flies range from #32 up to 8" long or longer. I maintain you are fly fishing as long as you NEED the weight of the line to carry the fly to the fish. I don’t see how the use of boats or strike indicators, or anything else enters into the definition. Certainly, some types of fly fishing are more difficult than others. It doesn’t mean the others aren’t fly fishing. I think we should encourage all kinds of fly fishing. The young person we help now, with his poppers for largemouth, may someday be a #32 hook in-the-film emerger fisherman. That’s all brothers. Hope you all have a great summer of fly fishing. Jim

Hi Jim Good point. I agree it’s a lot more important to help a kid get started than to argue about what fly fishing is. You also have a good summer. Take care & … — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Catalog,Tips & Tricks, Fishing Reports, & NeverSink at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

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I’m going to make one post about the definition of ff and then say no more.  It seems to me that fly casting is using the weight of the line to carry the lure or (fly) to the fish. As long as the lure is so light as to require a line to carry it to the fish it seems you are fly casting. As for what is fly fishing, you now have many different lures or (flies) that fit into the definition above. These lures or flies range from #32 up to 8" long or longer. I maintain you are fly fishing as long as you NEED the weight of the line to carry the fly to the fish. I don’t see how the use of boats or strike indicators, or anything else enters into the definition. Certainly, some types of fly fishing are more difficult than others. It doesn’t mean the others aren’t fly fishing. I think we should encourage all kinds of fly fishing. The young person we help now, with his poppers for largemouth, may someday be a #32 hook in-the-film emerger fisherman. That’s all brothers. Hope you all have a great summer of fly fishing. Jim

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good Evening…. It’s been an interesting winter here on r.o.f.f., and I must say it’s been difficult to keep my mouth shut on a number of the more controversial issues…..but I wanted to actually think about my response(s) to a number of subjects before I spouted off…if you may be offended by a different opinion than yours….DELETE NOW Trolling And Ethics… Being one of those Streamer fishermen from Maine, who likes to troll along shore in my canoe, or along the edge of the retreating ice,  I am perplexed by everyone getting uptight about defining this practice as flyfishing or not….FWIW…I look at it this way:  There is "flyfishing", and there is "fishing with a fly".  Neither is superior to the other….both require the angler to choose an immitation to best match the "natural", in this case the predominant forage fish. The gear used may be identical in both types of fishing (perhaps not), but the key difference is the method of presenting the fly.  In my definition, "flyfishing" involves casting a fly/streamer, and also a retrieve. "Fishing with a fly" doesn’t normally meet these presentation criteria. As far as the ethics thing is concerned….I’ll simply say that just because you consider "flyfishing" superior to "fishing with a fly", doesn’t make it so.  I participate in both activities without guilt All to often nowadays…people seem to have adopted a "holier than thou art" attitude….call it human nature?  Leave it at home when you come to Maine, Please.  We let everyone fish here. Yuppification and Warrantees…. The sport of flyfishing has become a very fashionable thing to do nowadays….and if you don’t truly attain some sort of transcendental state whilst doing it….fake it.  Taking up flyfishing also automatically qualifies you as an adventurer and outdoorsman/woman, though I prefer to think of the Yuppies as "Weekend Grizzly Adams’s"…It’s quite comical actually…until they realize there are no streetlights or phone booths to dial 911 in the backcountry. I once had a 9′ 5wt Double L Rod from LL Bean…it’s now 8′10.5"…I broke the tip….it was NOT a manufacturer’s defect….it was operator error….I will not return it.  To those who have slammed rods in car doors, etc. and demanded they be replaced under warranty….Thanks a bunch….I appreciate paying $100 more per rod for your clumsiness, and lack of personal responsibility. Hatches…. Many folks really enjoy studying entimology, and learning every species, genus, and phylum….good for you!  I hope you get enjoyment from that!  Many of us are perfectly content with common names for insects, however…..Sulphurs, BWO’s, Red Quills….are the names I use, and I have flies to match them in size, shape, color, and sillouhette.   It’s still flyfishing, and I catch plenty of fish. Smoking and Black Flies…. I’m planning to quit this summer….after the black fly season during spring fishing….don’t know what I’ll do next spring.  I appreciate all of the non-smokers concern for those of us who do enjoy a smoke….we know you’re concerned….we know the health risks….but believe me…you accomplish nothing by repeating this information ad nauseum to us.  Please refrain….I carry out all litter, and I’ll stand downwind from you.  I promise. There…I feel much better now.  Time to enter Lurk Mode again! Regards, R.A. Skehan

I feel better, too. Catch what you eat, eat what you catch, enjoy the trip.  Pretty simple, really.  Everything else is just details. If you want to just mess around with the fish, buy an aquarium. Donning my asbestos suit, Jim Wagner — Jim Wagner http://www.pagesz.net/~n4svz

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Catch what you eat, eat what you catch, enjoy the trip.  Pretty simple, really.  Everything else is just details.

You mean, like the beer ? Now yours is a slogan I can live with. TimW

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Excellent post. Right on the mark as I troll streamers as well as "flycast". Trolling streamers is a time honored tradition and a great way to relax and take in the surroundings. I have caught many nice Landlocks on Munsungan Lake this way.  If we see fish working, then we reel in and cast to them. As far as yuppification, I agree but don’t see anything we can do about it other than make fun.

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perhaps the best post I’ve read all week! Superior to the ralph H / Moe Skeeter diatibes Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Good Evening…. It’s been an interesting winter here on r.o.f.f., and I must say it’s been difficult to keep my mouth shut on a number of the more controversial issues…..but I wanted to actually think about my response(s) to a number of subjects before I spouted off…if you may be offended by a different opinion than yours….DELETE NOW Trolling And Ethics… Being one of those Streamer fishermen from Maine, who likes to troll along shore in my canoe, or along the edge of the retreating ice,  I am perplexed by everyone getting uptight about defining this practice as flyfishing or not….FWIW…I look at it this way:  There is "flyfishing", and there is "fishing with a fly".  Neither is superior to the other….both require the angler to choose an immitation to best match the "natural", in this case the predominant forage fish. The gear used may be identical in both types of fishing (perhaps not), but the key difference is the method of presenting the fly.  In my definition, "flyfishing" involves casting a fly/streamer, and also a retrieve. "Fishing with a fly" doesn’t normally meet these presentation criteria.   As far as the ethics thing is concerned….I’ll simply say that just because you consider "flyfishing" superior to "fishing with a fly", doesn’t make it so.  I participate in both activities without guilt All to often nowadays…people seem to have adopted a "holier than thou art" attitude….call it human nature?  Leave it at home when you come to Maine, Please.  We let everyone fish here. Yuppification and Warrantees…. The sport of flyfishing has become a very fashionable thing to do nowadays….and if you don’t truly attain some sort of transcendental state whilst doing it….fake it.  Taking up flyfishing also automatically qualifies you as an adventurer and outdoorsman/woman, though I prefer to think of the Yuppies as "Weekend Grizzly Adams’s"…It’s quite comical actually…until they realize there are no streetlights or phone booths to dial 911 in the backcountry. I once had a 9′ 5wt Double L Rod from LL Bean…it’s now 8′10.5"…I broke the tip….it was NOT a manufacturer’s defect….it was operator error….I will not return it.  To those who have slammed rods in car doors, etc. and demanded they be replaced under warranty….Thanks a bunch….I appreciate paying $100 more per rod for your clumsiness, and lack of personal responsibility. Hatches…. Many folks really enjoy studying entimology, and learning every species, genus, and phylum….good for you!  I hope you get enjoyment from that!  Many of us are perfectly content with common names for insects, however…..Sulphurs, BWO’s, Red Quills….are the names I use, and I have flies to match them in size, shape, color, and sillouhette.   It’s still flyfishing, and I catch plenty of fish. Smoking and Black Flies…. I’m planning to quit this summer….after the black fly season during spring fishing….don’t know what I’ll do next spring.  I appreciate all of the non-smokers concern for those of us who do enjoy a smoke….we know you’re concerned….we know the health risks….but believe me…you accomplish nothing by repeating this information ad nauseum to us.  Please refrain….I carry out all litter, and I’ll stand downwind from you.  I promise. There…I feel much better now.  Time to enter Lurk Mode again! Regards, R.A. Skehan

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Good Evening…. It’s been an interesting winter here on r.o.f.f., and I must say it’s been difficult to keep my mouth shut on a number of the more controversial issues…..but I wanted to actually think about my response(s) to a number of subjects before I spouted off…if you may be offended by a different opinion than yours….DELETE NOW Trolling And Ethics… Being one of those Streamer fishermen from Maine, who likes to troll along shore in my canoe, or along the edge of the retreating ice,  I am perplexed by everyone getting uptight about defining this practice as flyfishing or not….FWIW…I look at it this way:  There is "flyfishing", and there is "fishing with a fly".  Neither is superior to the other….both require the angler to choose an immitation to best match the "natural", in this case the predominant forage fish. The gear used may be identical in both types of fishing (perhaps not), but the key difference is the method of presenting the fly.  In my definition, "flyfishing" involves casting a fly/streamer, and also a retrieve. "Fishing with a fly" doesn’t normally meet these presentation criteria.   As far as the ethics thing is concerned….I’ll simply say that just because you consider "flyfishing" superior to "fishing with a fly", doesn’t make it so.  I participate in both activities without guilt All to often nowadays…people seem to have adopted a "holier than thou art" attitude….call it human nature?  Leave it at home when you come to Maine, Please.  We let everyone fish here. Yuppification and Warrantees…. The sport of flyfishing has become a very fashionable thing to do nowadays….and if you don’t truly attain some sort of transcendental state whilst doing it….fake it.  Taking up flyfishing also automatically qualifies you as an adventurer and outdoorsman/woman, though I prefer to think of the Yuppies as "Weekend Grizzly Adams’s"…It’s quite comical actually…until they realize there are no streetlights or phone booths to dial 911 in the backcountry. I once had a 9′ 5wt Double L Rod from LL Bean…it’s now 8′10.5"…I broke the tip….it was NOT a manufacturer’s defect….it was operator error….I will not return it.  To those who have slammed rods in car doors, etc. and demanded they be replaced under warranty….Thanks a bunch….I appreciate paying $100 more per rod for your clumsiness, and lack of personal responsibility. Hatches…. Many folks really enjoy studying entimology, and learning every species, genus, and phylum….good for you!  I hope you get enjoyment from that!  Many of us are perfectly content with common names for insects, however…..Sulphurs, BWO’s, Red Quills….are the names I use, and I have flies to match them in size, shape, color, and sillouhette.   It’s still flyfishing, and I catch plenty of fish. Smoking and Black Flies…. I’m planning to quit this summer….after the black fly season during spring fishing….don’t know what I’ll do next spring.  I appreciate all of the non-smokers concern for those of us who do enjoy a smoke….we know you’re concerned….we know the health risks….but believe me…you accomplish nothing by repeating this information ad nauseum to us.  Please refrain….I carry out all litter, and I’ll stand downwind from you.  I promise. There…I feel much better now.  Time to enter Lurk Mode again! Regards, R.A. Skehan

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Question:

This is really addressed to manufacturers and fly shop owners/operators. Are there any trade publications geared to the fly fishing industry? I’m familiar with all of the consumer titles, but would be interested to find out about any trade/industry titles. Thanks for your help.

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‘Fly Tackle Dealer"  Contact the people at ‘Rod & Reel’. A.J.Thramer

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Question:

: I use 25-lb hard mono, and I don’t have hardly any problems.   : After every fish, run the leader between your lips (they’re more : sensitive than your cold hands) to check for abrasions and : splits.  If you find some, cut that section off. : -M. Smith The guys around here use twelve inches of piano wire or guitar string as a leader (tippet?).  I find it stiffer than mono, but the stuff *never* gets bitten through.  Also, it won’t rust. However, it isn’t the nicest stuff to cast.  Maybe I’ll give the hard mono a try. Pete

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I use 25-lb hard mono, and I don’t have hardly any problems.   : After every fish, run the leader between your lips (they’re more : sensitive than your cold hands) to check for abrasions and : splits.  If you find some, cut that section off. : -M. Smith The guys around here use twelve inches of piano wire or guitar string as a leader (tippet?).  I find it stiffer than mono, but the stuff *never* gets bitten through.  Also, it won’t rust. However, it isn’t the nicest stuff to cast.  Maybe I’ll give the hard mono a try. Pete

   I’ve had bad luck with hard mono for pike.  Last spring I was using 30# hard mason and I broke off something like three out of five time (I gave up after five times, and yes, I did check it for nicks after each fish).  There has to be a subtle trick to using mono leaders for pike because some people swear by it, but it’s never worked for me.    On the other hand, I think the flexible coated wire sold by Orvis works outstanding.  You can tie it to your leader with a surgeon’s or Albright knot and use a duncan loop to attach it to your fly.  No haywire twists or melt knots/fire to mess with. The coating wears off the first two or three inches after a few pike, but it’s easy to retie.  I’ve used it almost exclusively on my last two trips to Saskatchewan and never had a failure with pike up to 42" (about 20#).    As to be expected, Orvis wants way too much money for the stuff, but this is one thing that I’ll pay a little extra for. Another drawback is it’s fine diamter can cut into the leader if you’re not careful, as I found out when fishing for barracuda (makes pike look like a freshwater pussy cat). Rob Gregoire Dallas, Tx

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Hello! A few questions to the oracle How do stop the pike from biting the line off? ( I don’t know the terminology, sorry). Do you put a steelwire there, as you do with a spinning line, or just a thicker regular line?. Also, any hints on wich flies to use is appreciated.                                         Thanx//Klas —                    And now young Skywalker, you will die!                      - The Emperor, Return of the Jedi

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(Klas P Geiron) writes: How do stop the pike from biting the line off? ( I don’t know the terminology, sorry). Do you put a steelwire there,

Yes, use steel shock tippets if you want to keep your flies.  You can also use really heavy mono shock tippet, but I have had pike bite through (looks like a razor cut) 65lb. mono on the strike when I didn’t have the wire tippets.   You can buy pre-looped bite guards from Orvis ($7.25 to $8.50 for a pack of 10) or make your own by buying nylon coated wire from just about any bait shop. If you make your own, use a haywire twist to make a loop on one end and hold the twists under a flame to melt the nylon together (makes a 90%+ knot).  This gives you a loop to loop to your leader.You need to use different knots with the wire to attach the fly.   A figure 8 knot is simple and works great .  Looks like it will slip, but it never does.                        Hope this helps,                                 Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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(Klas P Geiron) writes: How do stop the pike from biting the line off? ( I don’t know the terminology, sorry). Do you put a steelwire there,

I’ve been using kevlar pike tress. It works fine and is easier to cast than steel wire. Heavy monofil nylon is NOT 100% sure. /Tord Andreasson

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Klas P Geiron) writes: How do stop the pike from biting the line off? ( I don’t know the terminology, sorry). Do you put a steelwire there, I’ve been using kevlar pike tress. It works fine and is easier to cast than steel wire. Heavy monofil nylon is NOT 100% sure. /Tord Andreasson I’ve used steel leader material that is nylon covered. About 18" does the trick. There are small lead sleeves used to crimp the leader ends in small loops, to attach your fly and the line.   I had no trouble casting or breaking using a loop to loop connection on my setup.  I think I ordered my material from CAblela’s

Just my two cents worth: I have found that mono is about 100% sure. I certainly hate using steel or wire leaders to flyfish with, so my solution is to have used 50 lb. mono, about a foot or so of it. This has worked on everything toothy from our pickerel here in Nova Scotia, to some good sized blues in Florida !! (I know it’s a personal thing, but wire makes it feel so much like light tackle spinning – which is great, just not fly fishing) Bill

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