Question:

For much of the past decade my family and I have vacationed in North- Central New Mexico (Santa Fe/Taos area). … Historically they’ve been wonderful, since few people fished them.  But that seems to have changed…

I’ll confess to being part of the problem. We were in Taos for a week last October and found it a wonderful vacation spot both for me and my flyfishing and Kristine and her shopping/photography. I was able to find solitude, in October, the further I got from the "Enchanted Circle", FWIW. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

For much of the past decade my family and I have vacationed in North- Central New Mexico (Santa Fe/Taos area).  It always seemed to offer something for everyone…culture and restaurants for my wife, fishing and hiking for me.  I returned last week after an absence of 3 years and couldn’t believe the increase in fishing pressure and resulting reduction in fishing quality. Exhibit 1 — an small, alpine tailwater (maybe 60 cfm)with a nice population of cuts.  Catch and release.  Fished it three years ago, in the prime water on a WEEKEND, and saw one other rod all day.  Last week, on a Tuesday, had to scramble to find a stretch to fish.  At least 10 other rods on a 1.5 mile stretch. Exhibit 2 — a tiny mountain stream, 2 hour drive from anywhere. Walked in and got no hits.  Started moving quickly, and eventually ran into a fisherman.  I’d been fishing in his wake.  Walked another half mile, same problem.  Eventually had to drive a mile downstream, and walk another mile to get onto virgin water, then had a reasonable time. Unlike streams in places like Montana (or even the San Juan), the streams in North-Central NM are generally so small that they can’t support very much pressure.  Historically they’ve been wonderful, since few people fished them.  But that seems to have changed… Michael — www.geocities.com/yosemite/falls/3363 Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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Question:

Did you ever see the Walker’s Cay Chronicles, where Flip Pallot and Lefty Kreh were down in that area fly fishing for False Albicore? – Bud — Bud Feuless & Miki Magara-Feuless

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Did you ever see the Walker’s Cay Chronicles, where Flip Pallot and Lefty Kreh were down in that area fly fishing for False Albicore? – Bud — Bud Feuless & Miki Magara-Feuless

No.  I’d like to see it though.  That has become one hot light tackle fishery.  Since most people don’t like the false albacore, it is also a catch and release fishery, which will certainly help sustain the stocks as the popularity increases. Jeff Sorry, but email address disguised due to unscrupulous spammers.  Please respond in Usenet.

Response:

Jeff; Congrabulations!  Hope you fall as much in love with your Scout as I have mine.  False Albacore should be running in your area soon, right? – Bud — Bud Feuless & Miki Magara-Feuless

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Jeff; Congrabulations!  Hope you fall as much in love with your Scout as I have mine.  False Albacore should be running in your area soon, right? – Bud — Bud Feuless & Miki Magara-Feuless

Yes.  It usually happens in April.  Worry not, I will be catching them! Jeff Sorry, but email address disguised due to unscrupulous spammers.  Please respond in Usenet.

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   Congrats Jeff !!!!   Have fun Mike G.

Response:

just womdering what you paid? and do the scouts come in center consoles and what is there cost if you dont mind thanks rob

With 150 HP Yamaha and a $2000 single axle trailer for this new 19′ boat, my guess would be $25,000. — Skipper

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just womdering what you paid? and do the scouts come in center consoles and what is there cost if you dont mind thanks rob

Response:

just womdering what you paid? and do the scouts come in center consoles and what is there cost if you dont mind thanks rob

I paid a fair price to the dealer in my area that was most helpful. Amazingly, I was able to negotiate a deal without knowing dealer invoice, blue book value, and wholesale cost.  If you are serious about prices, I suggest calling some dealers in your area for some quotes.  Tell me what they are quoting, and I will give you my opinion on that price.   Scout makes boats up to 20′ in center console, dual console, side console, and flats style.  They are at www.scoutboats.com. Jeff Sorry, but email address disguised due to unscrupulous spammers.  Please respond in Usenet.

Response:

just womdering what you paid? and do the scouts come in center consoles and what is there cost if you dont mind thanks rob With 150 HP Yamaha and a $2000 single axle trailer for this new 19′ boat, my guess would be $25,000. — Skipper

Good guess, Skipper.  I got a dual axle trailer, and the boat is closer to 20′ than 19′ (19′ 10" LOA). Jeff Sorry, but email address disguised due to unscrupulous spammers.  Please respond in Usenet.

Response:

Got the call from the dealer today.  My new Scout 202 SF is in!  I’m going to go down on Saturday and lay out where I want the electronics mounted.  It will be ready for the water next week, and I anticipate picking it up on the 13th!   Now I just need the fish to start their trip to the NC coast… Jeff Sorry, but email address disguised due to unscrupulous spammers.  Please respond in Usenet.

Response:

Got the call from the dealer today.  My new Scout 202 SF is in!  I’m going to go down on Saturday and lay out where I want the electronics mounted.  It will be ready for the water next week, and I anticipate picking it up on the 13th!   Now I just need the fish to start their trip to the NC coast… Jeff

Congrats indeed, Jeff!  It always seems that the first year or two, when you’re busy turning the boat into what you want it to be, are the most enjoyable.  We just switched and there’s all the usual redoing to change the obviously stupid decisions the manufacturer and previous owners made to the One True Path of Righteousness (and humility???) Enjoy!

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Question:

I can’t take credit for this bit of wisdom, I read it somwhere. But I live by it. " The fishing is always good, it’s the catching that is sometimes bad." Tim Apple

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This is an article which was rejected by several magazines etc, after they had specifically requested it. I think the tone of the article upset a few people on the editorial staff. I thought perhaps a few ROFFIANS might enjoy it. When is the best time to go fishing ? I get lots of questions from people at my classes and elsewhere about  when is the best time to go fishing.  They often tell me they have read lots of books, watched films, listened to experts etc, which advise certain times of the day, certain periods of the moon, certain combinations of weather, cloud cover, rain, sunshine, etc etc etc. Many people take careful temperature measurements of the water, air etc, and presumably decide not to fish if these are not within certain ranges, others even measure oxygen content or Ph  values as well, to aid their deliberations. This method has the decided secondary advantage that if you dont catch anything  you are then able to justify this failure with a lot of pseudo-scientific gobbledygook  guaranteed to have any normal person reeling with admiration for your angling knowledge and general perspicacity, this is in fact sometimes far more impressive than actually presenting a large well conditioned fish ! The fish in the Photo below was caught by my next door neighbour the first time in his life he went fishing. This memorable event occurred exactly two weeks after  our moving into our present house, and after we had spent four hours on the lawn at the back teaching him to cast. When we arrived at the water conditions were impossible, several anglers we met on the water told us quite emphatically that we were wasting out time, and that catching Pike on flies in this water was impossible anyway as there were too many bait fish and the fish were sated, and anyway there were only small jacks in  etc etc etc,  My neighbour got quite depressed with all this well meant information, and was rather surprised to see me blithely ignoring it. We commenced fishing and on his third cast he connected with the fish in the picture. After a raging battle which I will not bother going into now, where he nearly went overboard a couple of times, nearly strangled himself on the anchor rope, and nearly had a heart attack the first time he saw the fish

Question:

I re-tilled and seeded my lawn this spring with Yuma a hybrid Bermda grass. Just now starting to have a good solid growth of new grass, but also have an over abundance of nut grass. Anyone have advice on how to get rid of nut rog

Response:

I re-tilled and seeded my lawn this spring with Yuma a hybrid Bermda grass. Just now starting to have a good solid growth of new grass, but also have an over abundance of nut grass. Anyone have advice on how to get rid of nut rog

  If this is the same thing I’ve got here in NC it’s the worst weed going.  Nodules distributed along little thin roots, so pulling it out just breaks the root and makes more plants.  I’ve tried RoundUp painted carefully along the grass blades or dripped into the crown with no success.  I’m told it doesn’t get past the first nodule.  The only thing I’ve found to do is lift up the top several inches of soil and dispose of it (where?).  Obviously that has its limitations. — Lloyd R. Fortney ….. http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney physics, research, teaching, photography, flower gardening, travel, and fly fishing

Response:

Can someone describe what nutgrass looks like?? thanks Timothy B. Dyeson, PhD, LMSW University of North Texas Department of Applied Gerontology Minority Aging Research Institute www.unt.edu/depts/mari/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I re-tilled and seeded my lawn this spring with Yuma a hybrid Bermda grass. Just now starting to have a good solid growth of new grass, but also have an over abundance of nut grass. Anyone have advice on how to get rid of nut rog   If this is the same thing I’ve got here in NC it’s the worst weed going.  Nodules distributed along little thin roots, so pulling it out just breaks the root and makes more plants.  I’ve tried RoundUp painted carefully along the grass blades or dripped into the crown with no success.  I’m told it doesn’t get past the first nodule.  The only thing I’ve found to do is lift up the top several inches of soil and dispose of it (where?).  Obviously that has its limitations. — Lloyd R. Fortney ….. http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney physics, research, teaching, photography, flower gardening, travel, and fly fishing

–

Response:

I’ve got the same problem — who doesn’t?! How about nuking the whole yard and starting over????  <g http://members.aol.com/wilona1/index.html Pages updated June 6, 1997 – NEW:  Handmade Baby Afghans!!! Gardening – Genealogy – Newsletter – Links

Response:

I’ve got the same problem — who doesn’t?! How about nuking the whole yard and starting over????  <g http://members.aol.com/wilona1/index.html Pages updated June 6, 1997 – NEW:  Handmade Baby Afghans!!! Gardening – Genealogy – Newsletter – Links

Try a product called Image.  Also there is one called Manage. You can also use MSMA.  If you pull it make sure you loosen the soil that will give you  a better chance of getting the nutlet out of the ground.  The nuts grow out and down.

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Nut grass is also a good indicator plant of other cultural problems Compaction Poor drainage acid soil A long term investment in changing the culture will reduce nut grass – also consider a shrub/mulch planting.

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Can someone describe what nutgrass looks like?? thanks

  What I call nutgrass is a medium course, mostly vertical grass growing from a crown.  It has maybe 4-6 stiff leaves from each crown and there is usually a colony of at least a couple of dozen crowns.  They are maybe 1/4" or so wide and up to a foot or more in height if you don’t mow or pull it first.  It easily outgrows my bermuda: a day or two after mowing it will be twice as high as the bermuda.  But underground is where the real problem lies.  I havn’t tried the chemicals mentioned in another reply, but I’m going looking tomorrow. — Lloyd R. Fortney ….. http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney physics, research, teaching, photography, flower gardening, travel, and fly fishing

Response:

This may be the one time that having a cat in your garden could help. My cats just love nut grass and have made it a scarce commodity in my yard. Lisa Peterson — Without Trucks, Minnesota Stops! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I re-tilled and seeded my lawn this spring with Yuma a hybrid Bermda grass. Just now starting to have a good solid growth of new grass, but also have an over abundance of nut grass. Anyone have advice on how to get rid of nut rog

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USE A CHEMICAL NAMED "MANAGE" 2 -APPLICATIONS

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Question:

anyone interested in motorized bellyboats

Response:

anyone interested in motorized bellyboats

I would be interested to see one, just for the heck of it.  I don’t know if I’d ever actually use it.  That would just depend on the top speed.

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yes!!   One difference, tho-   i use 2 ea  5′ peices of 15" lo-head irrigation pipe for pontoons and the frame allows me to be down in the water just over my legs.  the rear of the "system" has a mount for a small elec motor and a place for a big deep cycle battery.  Im close to 300# and belly boats are not made for guys my size!!!    However motorizing a "U" tube or regular floater has been done and a catalogue was available some 3 years ago.  Check with one of the local fly shops, or inquire to guides-  they have the exposure to things like that…..  if they are not too busy fishing!!! .

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Question:

These are great…very innovative, easy to use, and much safer than the conventional float tubes.  I’m not saying the conventionals are unsafe, but the Hobie is made of hard plastic pontoons that won’t puncture. They are also very comfortable and keep more of you out of the water.  Better back support than the conventional tubes, too.  The seat is sturdy and comfortable.  They look great, too!  Let me know if you have more questions.

Response:

Has anyone had any experience with Hobie Float Cat kick boats? I am thinking of buying one and would appreciate comments. For those that don’t know… The Float Cat is a kick boat with rigid poly pontoons and aluminum frame. Thanks in advance.

I haven’t had any personal experience with the Hobie, but it raises the question:  why bother with rigid poly pontoons when you can have inflatable.  I recently purchased an 8′ kickboat made by Outcast and am extremely pleased with it.  It has PVC/polyester fabric tubes (25 oz bottoms/18 oz tops) with a clever 3 piece alumimum frame.  Whole thing breaks down to a *very* compact package and assembles in a couple of minutes (maybe 5 minutes w/ inflation).  Furthermore, fully assembled, it’s still light enough to easily transport and carry (probably 50#, with gear).  Rows beautifully – extremely fast and requires very little effort.   The main thing however is the hulls:  the PVC fabric, while rigid enough to support the frame, is also resilient enough to bounce off rocks, trees, etc.  And even if the outer hull material punctures, the air remains confined by the inner urethane bladder.  Rigid PVC is not very flexible.  I’m afraid that slamming a rock, particularly broadside could crack or hole a rigid hull (happens all the time with fiberglass drift boats).   There’s a reason inflatables dominate the river-running scene and it isn’t cost (a fully equipped 12′ raft runs about $4,000 these days): fact is their light weight and durability are nearly ideal for moving water.   -Wes Wes Neuenschwander Seattle, WA

Response:

Has anyone had any experience with Hobie Float Cat kick boats? I am thinking of buying one and would appreciate comments. For those that don’t know… The Float Cat is a kick boat with rigid poly pontoons and aluminum frame. Thanks in advance. —  /// John Kleist, Colorado Climate Center, CSU, Fort Collins CO 80523   \ \        URL:http://ulysses.atmos.colostate.edu/~johnk/                ///

Response:

Can I add to John Kliest’s request for information?  If anyone has experience using these pontoon boats on rivers, I would be interested in observations and comments.  My objective would be to use it in Montana on certain – emphasize certain – rivers to do my own floats.  On the other hand, I would prefer to live a bit longer than my current age, if only to fish, and thus am not inclined to take unecessary risks.  Thanks.                                     Mark Faulkner

Response:

Can I add to John Kliest’s request for information?  If anyone has experience using these pontoon boats on rivers, I would be interested in observations and comments.  My objective would be to use it in Montana on certain – emphasize certain – rivers to do my own floats.  On the other hand, I would prefer to live a bit longer than my current age, if only to fish, and thus am not inclined to take unecessary risks.  Thanks.                                    Mark Faulkner

Hi Mark, My wife and I have been using pontoon boats in Montana for the past five years. Water Otter with a rowing systme is what we currently own however there are several very good pontoon crafts on the market. We use them on the Madison, Missouri, Big Horn, Yellowstone, Big Hole, Gallatin, etc. and love them. As in any craft on the water you need to be aware of your surroundings. Under water trees, rocks, etc. can be dangerous in any kind of a boat including the pontoon boat. I’ve only had one close call in the five years and it was my fault. I had driven all night to get to the Big Horn River and decided to fish anyway. You know how it is, escaping from corporate America for a few days. I fell a sleep while floating the river and run one the pontoons up on a partly submerged rock. The rock just about turned over the boat but fortunately did not. I certainly woke up. That was a close enough call. I banked the boat and slept for a couple of hours before continuing the float. Now that I’ve been downsized out of corporate America I live in Bozeman, Montana where I work as a guide. Usually I guide customers in my drift boat but do have several client who like fishing out of the pontoon craft. The craft is also great when guiding float tubing clients because I can navigate rapidly (and with little effort) between customers to assist/instruct, etc., even if the wind is blowing. And the wind blows often in Montana. I think you will enjoy a pontoon boat. I do not own a Buck Bag pontoon boat but have operated a friend’s boat and like it a lot. I understand from Dave Corcoran at the River’s Edge here in Bozeman that the Buck’s is the best buy for the money in his opinion. If you are interested I saw they had one of the new models in stock when I stopped by yesterday. For more information you can call them at 406-586-5373. Good luck and let me know how things work out for you regarding these great boats. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Question:

                            FLY FISHING BOOKS                                  FOR THE                                 SPORTSMAN * The American Sportsman Treasury, ‘71, by Knopf.  A collection of Fly Fishing and Hunting stories, with terrific art work and photos.  Chapters on fly fishing for Brown and Rainbow Trout, fly patterns that produce results, bamboo fly rods; and hunting white tail deer, woodcock, water foul, mountain sheep, grouse, etc. All written by famous authors, eg. Charles F. Waterman, Lee Wulff, Leonard M. Wright, Roderick Haig-Brown, William G. Sheldon and many others. An excellent book for the all around sportsman, and a way to reflect on the sporting heritage. * The Treasury of Angling, ‘63 by Koller.  A comprehensive history of angling, and the birth and growth of fly fishing. Chapters on angling in antiquity, early american angling, tackle, flies, entomology, Salmon, Trout, Bass, and other fresh water fish.  Terrific photos and art work.  Learn about the history of fly fishing and game fish, and gain a full sporting knowledge of the art of fly fishing. E-mail me if interested in these books, and I will e-mail cost info. JWTrout/2/11/96

Response:

I’m interested. Thanks, Wayne Lance

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Question:

Does anyone know where I can find the following rodbuilding book? A Master’s Guide to Building a Bamboo Fly Rod Hoagy B. Carmichael 1977 Marth’s Glen Publishing Co., Katanah, NY 10536 Thanks very much for any help in this regard. BTW, the flyfishing is great this year in Wyoming. Big Horn area especially. Please email me if you know where I can find the book.

I got my reprinted copy from Centennial Pulications in Grand Junction Co. They have a web site "http://www.gorp.com/cl_angle/flyfish/main.htm" or smail is:    256 Nashua Court    Grand Junction, CO 81503 Good Luck, Rick

Response:

        The latest printing and the first printing are both sold out. However, a third edition is supposed to come out late this year or early next year. Higher price though. Try Angler’s Art at 800-848-1020.

Response:

orig snipped<< I got my reprinted copy from Centennial Pulications in Grand Junction Co. They have a web site "http://www.gorp.com/cl_angle/flyfish/main.htm" or smail is: Good Luck, Rick

Well Rick, moving on your advice I stopped by the site you published and was impressed, looks really great. I am also interested in this book and some other ones also, Being a poor dude, I ain’t in the credit card-fed-ex-next-day-instant-gratification< catagory, so I e-mailed title and one other by money order. As the publication is a limited printing and not due out untill sept, (gee I guess thats today) I really wanted to get my order in now, not to mention the times that I have about a hundered and a half bucks to spend on books being pretty rare. I hate to jump to this conclusion, but after a few days, I have a hard time not doing it, as I usually return e-mail with in a few hours, a day at the most. It seems that the color of my money is not good enough for Mr. Bamboo and I am just a little pissed (that’s mad in american for all you Brits) that not only is this title apparently sold out before it was offered, but he has yet to dignify my request for a M.O. purchase. There are shop keeps out there, they too need to earn a living, and by and large that is where I preferr to spend my hard earned wages. I’d like to think that Mr. Bamboo is not the type to read his email and think "Ah, here’s a little punk who thinks he wants to buy my wares, but he’s not going to creditcard his way straight into my purse, so to hell with him".   But thats what it looks like from here. I wish bamboo much success in his on-line venture, I really do. But it doesn’t look like he’ll get my money, But then again, it looks like he doesn’t want it either.

Response:

I HAVE COMMITED AN INJUSTICE HERE orig snipped<< I got my reprinted copy from Centennial Pulications in Grand Junction Co. They have a web site "http://www.gorp.com/cl_angle/flyfish/main.htm" or

My response Well Rick, moving on your advice I stopped by the site you published and was impressed, looks really great. snip< There are shop keeps out there, they too need to earn a living, and by and large that is where I preferr to spend my hard earned wages. I’d like to think that Mr. Bamboo is not the type to read his email and think "Ah, here’s a little punk who thinks he wants to buy my wares, but he’s not going to creditcard his way straight into my purse, so to hell with him".

I should learn to keep my mouth shut, Mr. Bamboo DID respond, after a few days, and took care of me pretty nicely, a lot more nicely than I did him.   I am ashamed, this seems life a very fine outfit, i really wished I’da kept my mouth shut. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I wish bamboo much success in his on-line venture, I really do. But it doesn’t look like he’ll get my money, But then again, it looks like he doesn’t want it either.

Response:

Does anyone know where I can find the following rodbuilding book? A Master’s Guide to Building a Bamboo Fly Rod Hoagy B. Carmichael 1977 Marth’s Glen Publishing Co., Katanah, NY 10536 Thanks very much for any help in this regard. BTW, the flyfishing is great this year in Wyoming. Big Horn area especially. Please email me if you know where I can find the book.

Response:

Question:

: Learn to roll cast. Or pay a guide $150/day to put you in a raft. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.

Response:

Learn to roll cast.

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oh how I love to fly fish! My partner might even say I’m obsessed with fly fishing, and tying and anything else to do with this marvelous sport. And yes, I am a woman. Been fly fishing for about 5 years now and still consider myself somewhat of a beginner. Always wanting and looking for new stuff to learn. About flies in trees/bushes=simple always buy one for the fish and one or two for the trees. Also, try some creative casting, side arm casting, sling shot or bow and arrow casting, certainly roll casting, etc. Try these casts on an open lawn first, until you are more comfortable with it all. And if you have a fly shop in your area, check to see if there is a women’s group or club and if not, start one. It’s a great way to fish and learn in a safe environment! Most important…have fun! =)

Response:

to lodge my Hook in the raft – and off i go after spending $150! But seriously – i’ll learn roll casting – thanks for the advice!

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Question:

I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. Croix.  What do yall think of that?? Frankie

Response:

I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan

told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. Croix.  What do yall think of that?? Frankie

I think I should look at St. Croix rods.

Response:

: I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan : told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. : Croix.  What do yall think of that?? : Frankie : I think I should look at St. Croix rods. It’s possible. St. Croix makes blanks and rods for a lot ofpeople- I believe Cortland rods are almost identical- if not identical- to St. Croix rods. I own 3 St. Croixs, and they are, I think, a remarkable value. –mike

Response:

I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. Croix.  What do yall think of that?? Frankie

 I don’t know if that’s true or not, but I do know that a couple years ago  I read that St Croix is the largest American fabricator of blanks and rods.  This includes fly, spinning, casting, trolling, ice, surf.  They make rods  for Cortland, Gander Mountain and I believe some of the low end Cabela’s and  Bean’s.  A fellow I met a few years ago had an 8′ 4wt Orvis Green Mountain that he  says he picked up as a second at the St. Croix outlet store.  As he told  the story, he took the rod back a few days later because of a minor problem  and they fixed it, but were very red-faced in that someone apparently made  a mistake by putting the rod out on their seconds display rack.  Apparently,  none of the Orvis rods were ever to be sold or seen in their store.

Response:

I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. Croix.  What do yall think of that?? Frankie

I’m shocked!   A sunny day,      a box of midges,         and a wandering stream…   Man, this MUST be heaven!   <    Steve Kulpa    <<

Response:

I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. Croix.  What do yall think of that?? Frankie

The basic techniques of rod building are common to all rod manufacturers. The differences lie in a) the design of the mandrel over which the rod blank is built. b) the choice of materials: the choice of resin, the grade of graphite etc.  It should be noted that none of the rod manufacturers make their own sheets of prepreg graphite. c) Fussiness.  Different brands are more or less stringent about what they call a second or a reject.  This is one of the major reasons why extremely light blanks are expensive; you have to pay for all the rejects as well as the one that made it out the door. d) Finish and fittings. Even if St Croix makes rods for Orvis, that does not mean that the other St Croix rods are equivalent to the Orvis ones.  It simply means that St Croix can be relied upon to follow Orvis’s instructions.  Remember, when you contract with someone to build rods on your mandrels, you debar them from using your mandrels for their own or for anyone else’s rods.  Remember also that there is no reason why St Croix should use the same materials or quality control standards for their own rods as for the Orvis rods.  If the Orvis standards drive up the unit cost, then St Croix will not be able to sell faux Orvis rods at a price that suits their market niche. None of the above indicates that there is necessarily anything wrong with St Croix’s rods.  It just shows that it is fallacious to conclude that different brands are the same just because they come out of the same factory. It was reported in another post that St Croix does not make PM10 rods. This rumour-cum-fact suggests that St Croix could not produce these rods at a competitive price.  On the other hand, maybe St Croix simply lacked the capacity to fill the demand. It is fun to share scuttlebut and to arch ones eyebrows, but rumours should not be taken too seriously.  There is no way any of us will ever find out about the details of design, material, or quality control that distinguish good rods from great rods. — Keep your stick on the ice.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. Croix.  What do yall think of that?? Frankie The basic techniques of rod building are common to all rod manufacturers. The differences lie in a) the design of the mandrel over which the rod blank is built. b) the choice of materials: the choice of resin, the grade of graphite etc.  It should be noted that none of the rod manufacturers make their own sheets of prepreg graphite. c) Fussiness.  Different brands are more or less stringent about what they call a second or a reject.  This is one of the major reasons why extremely light blanks are expensive; you have to pay for all the rejects as well as the one that made it out the door. d) Finish and fittings. Even if St Croix makes rods for Orvis, that does not mean that the other St Croix rods are equivalent to the Orvis ones.  It simply means that St Croix can be relied upon to follow Orvis’s instructions.  Remember, when you contract with someone to build rods on your mandrels, you debar them from using your mandrels for their own or for anyone else’s rods.  Remember also that there is no reason why St Croix should use the same materials or quality control standards for their own rods as for the Orvis rods.  If the Orvis standards drive up the unit cost, then St Croix will not be able to sell faux Orvis rods at a price that suits their market niche. None of the above indicates that there is necessarily anything wrong with St Croix’s rods.  It just shows that it is fallacious to conclude that different brands are the same just because they come out of the same factory. It was reported in another post that St Croix does not make PM10 rods. This rumour-cum-fact suggests that St Croix could not produce these rods at a competitive price.  On the other hand, maybe St Croix simply lacked the capacity to fill the demand. It is fun to share scuttlebut and to arch ones eyebrows, but rumours should not be taken too seriously.  There is no way any of us will ever find out about the details of design, material, or quality control that distinguish good rods from great rods.

Well there is one way. Line-up the rod, cast it.  If you like it buy it. It doesn’t matter if it was made by Fisher-Price.  A name brand does not add to ability but a good casting rod will.  Now I know that we all know this but it seems the subject keeps going back to the name on the rod instead of the quality of the rod.  Just my 2 cents. Tom

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I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. Croix.  What do yall think of that?? Frankie

Sounds great to me.  I’d like to pick up even an orvis-quality cane rod at a St.Croix price.  Ask your shopowner for a St. Croix Wes Jordan model  ;) Mark Vinsel Fly fishing therapy – get in touch with your inner geezer.

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I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. Croix.  What do yall think of that??

I’ve taken a tour of Orvis’ rod shop in Manchester. They may buy some blanks for St. Croix, but I’m not sure. It seems much more likely that they’re made in some sweat shop in Singapore than that they pay St. Croix for it. But I seem to remember watching sheets of graphite being rolled into blanks while I was there. It’s a pretty impressive operation. If you happen to be around Manchester and aren’t too much of an anti-Orvis bigot, it might be worth seeing if you can take a rod-shop tour. Watching them work on the cane rods is particularly interesting. Dave Guinee

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. Croix.  What do yall think of that?? Frankie snip It is fun to share scuttlebut and to arch ones eyebrows, but rumours should not be taken too seriously.  There is no way any of us will ever find out about the details of design, material, or quality control that distinguish good rods from great rods. Well there is one way. Line-up the rod, cast it.  If you like it buy it. It doesn’t matter if it was made by Fisher-Price.  A name brand does not add to ability but a good casting rod will.  Now I know that we all know this but it seems the subject keeps going back to the name on the rod instead of the quality of the rod.  Just my 2 cents. Tom

True enough, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.  My point was that we do not have access to the pudding’s recipe. — Keep your stick on the ice.

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I don’t know if it is true, but a very reputable fly-shop in Manhattan told me that Orvis rods, with the exception of the PM10’s are made by St. Croix.  What do yall think of that?? Frankie I’m shocked!

But, guess what- It’s true !

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