Question:

 I find a 6 weight rod is a supurb compromise in that it is not worth a damn for either. You go Big Dale. Best gawdang advise posted here in months. A 6wt, imo, is the  ultimate all-around weight rod for flyfishing. From nc small-stream trout, to cedar key redfish, a 6wt is the best all- around weight rod any flyfisher can have in his arsenal.

Bullshit, a six weight is the most useless weight to own for any fly fisherman who owns more than one rod. Get a 4/5 and then a 7. Too damn big for MOST trout and pan fishing and too damn small for MOST sw and fw application. There’s a reason I only own one six weight <g — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

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if the drag on your reel is of sufficient quality, and if your tippet is sufficiently strong, and if you have sufficient experience, then landing a 100lb tarpon on a 3wt should be no different than doing the same thing on a 9wt, *assuming you can deliver the fly to the fish*.  

You could probably kill a tarpon with a 3wt, but I doubt you could lift it to the boat with a 3wt. Bigger fly rods have purpose other than delivering bigger files. FWIW — Charlie…

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Bigger fly rods have purpose other than delivering bigger files. FWIW

Sounds like you may already own that ultimate rod RW was talking about. Does it deliver Chinese food and pizza as well? <g –Steve

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I find a 6 weight rod is a supurb compromise in that it is not worth a damn for either. You go Big Dale. Best gawdang advise posted here in months. A 6wt, imo, is the  ultimate all-around weight rod for flyfishing. From nc small-stream trout, to cedar key redfish, a 6wt is the best all- around weight rod any flyfisher can have in his arsenal. Bullshit, a six weight is the most useless weight to own for any fly fisherman who owns more than one rod. Get a 4/5 and then a 7. Too damn big for MOST trout and pan fishing and too damn small for MOST sw and fw application. There’s a reason I only own one six weight <g — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas

ehh? please allow me shuffle my feet and to clarify…. *if* I only had one rod available to me, *and* i wanted to fish many different situations, a 9′ 6wt would be my choice, lines down. that is the advise i received when i first started flyfishing down in FL and it, imo, was very good advise. it allowed me to fish in many different waters with very little monetary outlay. now that i own many different rods for different fishing situations, the 6wt is rarely used any more. however, it will be dusted-off very soon for chasin’ chromers. walt fellow expert in creating tailing loops and windknots otherwise up-to-my-knees-in-trout in God’s Country <g

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8<…. if the drag on your reel is of sufficient quality, and if your tippet is sufficiently strong, and if you have sufficient experience, then landing a 100lb tarpon on a 3wt should be no different than doing the same thing on a 9wt, *assuming you can deliver the fly to the fish*.  let me repeat that:  *assuming you can deliver the fly to the fish*.  of course, in the real world, that is a rare assumption. wayno

wayno, with all due respect, fighting a 100 pound tarpon "properly" would destroy a 3wt rod. i say "properly" in the context of releasing the fish unharmed in a timely manner so that the fish could live to return to his environment, "unchanged", or more aptly stated, "wild." the length of time it would take to land a 100 pound tarpon on a 3wt, imo, would kill the fish either by exhaustion or by shark attack. that said, if you had said "hook" vs "landed" i could have agreed with you….it would be possible to deliver a thinly-dressed streamer using a 3wt to a cruising tarpon. why anyone would choose to do so is dahlwhinnian…. to clarify, hitch a ride with zimbo tomorrow am and i’ll put you on a mountain-version "tarpon" with your 3wt. <g –kamloopy wataugan waldo — Ezflyfish.com: http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

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Bullshit, a six weight is the most useless weight to own for any fly fisherman who owns more than one rod. Get a 4/5 and then a 7. Too damn big for MOST trout and pan fishing and too damn small for MOST sw and fw application. There’s a reason I only own one six weight <g — Wayne Knight

and I have four (counting the mix & match East Branch) and it’s my most frequently used weight.  - diffferent folks, different strokes. (8′, 8′ 6", 9′ 6", & 10′6") Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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I’m looking to building a fly rod this winter just for yucks.  I’ve done several casting rods in the past, but this would be a first. Can anybody recommend a good blank to use – expense isn’t really a factor, so any recommendation would be appreciated. Thanks.

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I’m looking to building a fly rod this winter just for yucks. … Can anybody recommend a good blank to use …

You’ll have to tell us more about yucks. — Ken Fortenberry

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I’m looking to building a fly rod this winter just for yucks. … Can anybody recommend a good blank to use … You’ll have to tell us more about yucks.

He is my evil twin.      :)

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I’m looking to building a fly rod this winter just for yucks. … Can anybody recommend a good blank to use … You’ll have to tell us more about yucks. He is my evil twin.      :)

Ah, so you want to build a rod capable of tossing a bottle of scotch 60 feet and landing a 185 lb twin. Definitely a 12wt. — Ken Fortenberry

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He is my evil twin.

Oh shit, not another one of those!   <g For a cheap intro to rod building, I’d still stay away from anything too crummy.   After all, when you’re done, you do want to be proud of it and fish with it.   My first few rods were built on higher end St. Croix blanks. Well below $100 each.   I also just started on one that’s a discontinued Loomis blank (IM6) I bought off Ebay for about 40 bucks.   There are also some dealers out there who have a supply of discontinued blanks.   D&E Rods (www.danderods.com) is one.   I have a nice 3 wt. Loomis IMX blank from them awaiting my attention (don’t remember that price, but it was cheap enough that I bought a blank I don’t need.) Either way you go, I recommend a decent blank.   The hardware cost and time invested are too much to put it into a practice stick.   Even if you screw it up cosmetically, it will still fish well (I have one or two that fit that category.) Joe F.

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The range and type of fly-rod blanks is very extensive. You will need to give us more information about what you wish to fish for, and under what circumstances, before we could be of any real assistance. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking to building a fly rod this winter just for yucks.  I’ve done several casting rods in the past, but this would be a first. Can anybody recommend a good blank to use – expense isn’t really a factor, so any recommendation would be appreciated. Thanks.

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If anyone out there disagrees with me then I’ve got an only-once-used 6wt 3-piece Diamondback rod and matching Hardy reel I’ll sell at a very fair price –Steve

See below.  I’ve already got a 3 pce Diamondback 6 wt. with a Hardy reel but who knows, I might need a spare some day. $10.00 ?  <g Peter

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Good for you. There are whores, and there are whores.  The main thing is to make sure you live happy, and if possible die in the same condition. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de Yes, I’m a whore. My first fly rod, a Martin 6wt with matching martin 6 wt

<SNIP

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You go Big Dale. Best gawdang advise posted here in months. A 6wt, imo, is the ultimate all-around weight rod for flyfishing. From nc small-stream trout, to cedar key redfish, a 6wt is the best all-around weight rod any flyfisher can have in his arsenal. Huh??? What happened to the *real* Walt Winter?? Not only would the real Waldo never recommend owning only one rod, but the real Waldo wouldn’t get caught dead on an NC stream *or* cedar key with a 6-weight rod.

        i don’t know what the hell this has to do with anything, or whether it makes any difference to anyone who might read this sort of thing (what *are* we doing discussing fly rods on roff, anyway?), but in my damn near fifty years of fishing with a fly rod, i have never owned a 6 weight rod.  in fact, i have never cast a heavier line than a 5 for trout, even when we girded our loins for the fabled big water and high winds of montana.  i think the issue is almost completely controlled by the question of what the size and weight of the fly might be.  if the drag on your reel is of sufficient quality, and if your tippet is sufficiently strong, and if you have sufficient experience, then landing a 100lb tarpon on a 3wt should be no different than doing the same thing on a 9wt, *assuming you can deliver the fly to the fish*.  let me repeat that:  *assuming you can deliver the fly to the fish*.  of course, in the real world, that is a rare assumption. wayno

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You go Big Dale. Best gawdang advise posted here in months. A 6wt, imo, is the ultimate all-around weight rod for flyfishing. From nc small-stream trout, to cedar key redfish, a 6wt is the best all-around weight rod any flyfisher can have in his arsenal.

Huh??? What happened to the *real* Walt Winter?? Not only would the real Waldo never recommend owning only one rod, but the real Waldo wouldn’t get caught dead on an NC stream *or* cedar key with a 6-weight rod. I say buy two rods. A 7′6" 3wt for trout and (if you must) a 9′ 7wt for bass. If cost is an issue then buy two inexpensive rods. If anyone out there disagrees with me then I’ve got an only-once-used 6wt 3-piece Diamondback rod and matching Hardy reel I’ll sell at a very fair price –Steve

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You go Big Dale. Best gawdang advise posted here in months. A 6wt, imo, is the ultimate all-around weight rod for flyfishing. From nc small-stream trout, to cedar key redfish, a 6wt is the best all-around weight rod any flyfisher can have in his arsenal. Huh??? What happened to the *real* Walt Winter?? Not only would the real Waldo never recommend owning only one rod, but the real Waldo wouldn’t get caught dead on an NC stream *or* cedar key with a 6-weight rod. I say buy two rods. A 7′6" 3wt for trout and (if you must) a 9′ 7wt for bass. If cost is an issue then buy two inexpensive rods. If anyone out there disagrees with me then I’ve got an only-once-used 6wt 3-piece Diamondback rod and matching Hardy reel I’ll sell at a very fair price –Steve

Yes, I’m a whore. My first fly rod, a Martin 6wt with matching martin 6 wt reel, was last used catching a steelie here in NC. It was first used catching bass on watermelon pond and it has also been used catching more species than any other rod in my inventory. Reminiscing, it has caught largemouth bass, smallmouth bass, suwanee bass, sunshine bass, peacock bass, many varieties of panfish, specs, redfish, black drum, snook, trout, stripers, weakfish, bonefish, gar, pickerel, barracuda, shad, tarpon, cobia (damn near lost it on that bad boy), mackeral, crevalles, ladyfish, and of course, that gorgeous chromer last winter in the company of that fine southern gentleman, Tom Brown. The butt of this rod  is still used daily as I use it as a reel "holder" when I manually load reels for sale. This rod is as much a part of me as my soul, as a matter of fact, blasphemously, one could say it is part and parcel of my soul. but i digress. my affliction spread like the plague. i acquired numerous rods and reels to fit certain needs, some psychological. although i suck at it, i even took up tying flies. i still was far from being satiated….. so, i opened a "flyshop". i now have more gawdang gear than any sane person should be allowed to possess. hundreds of reels and of rods, seemingly, enough line, leader & tippet to circumvent the earth. yet, be still, the fire burns hotter. my fervant desire now, as all invoices are paid, is to retire with all of this cool stuff. mine, all mine <g i, waldo, am a whore. ww — Ezflyfish.com: http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

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 I find a 6 weight rod is a supurb compromise in that it is not worth a damn for either.

You go Big Dale. Best gawdang advise posted here in months. A 6wt, imo, is the ultimate all-around weight rod for flyfishing. From nc small-stream trout, to cedar key redfish, a 6wt is the best all-around weight rod any flyfisher can have in his arsenal. –walt Ezflyfish.com: http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

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[snip] All good advice and I’ll add just one little bit more.  You can get away with a 7 or 8 wt. for small fish if you can find a short, slow action version and build it with a standard trout handle.  I lucked into an old 8′ 6" Orvis Green Mountain with a slow – moderate action and a small handle (no fighting butt.)  I’d have no difficulty using it for anything.  I’ve caught smallies under a pound that put a decent bend in it yet it’ll toss a 2/0 streamer about 80′.  I’ve tried a Fenwick HMGF 8′6" 7 wt. that also impressed me as a good all-round rod. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Ken wrote snip:Like I said, it’s a tough call, maybe some of the other warmwater guys in the group can recommend one and only one blank for both bluegill & bass but I’m afraid you have me stumped.

I think Ken is correct. I love my little 3 weight rods for bluegill and I take my fair share of bass on them, but they are all small bass. I don’t think I have landed a bass of over 3 pounds on one of them. There is no way in hell I can use a 3 weight to cast the flies that work best for large bass with a rod that small. I most often use  a 7 to 10 weight rod when I am fishing for sizable bass.  I find a 6 weight rod is a supurb compromise in that it is not worth a damn for either. Big Dale

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RE choose a rod blank for "pan fish to bass?" Sandy’s treatise on blank choosing with an angle: A 6-weight rod is generally considered the most versatile trout rod. With a 6-weight you can cast anything from an itty-bitty mayfly on a 7x tippet to a #2 woolly bugger on 0x tippet. But if you want to cast pike flies, bass worms or extra-bushy bass poppers, you will probably want a 7 or 8 weight rod. I like 9′ rods. But some people think they have more control over shorter (8′) rods. Once you have the size down, you still have to zero in on cost and action. Some guys (actually) like soft, slow action rods, like many built by Orvis, Winston or Powell. Slow action rods are easier to cast, more graceful to use. But they don’t handle heavy flies, wind or distance casting very well. Orvis, Winston and Powell make some moderately fast rods too. The fastest, most powerful casting canons I know of are made by Sage and Loomis. Someone told me Scott makes a powerful rod, but I never tried one. Cost? The most expensive rods are the best. But how much better are they? Not a whole lot, I don’t think. I have some fly rods that cost almost $600 bucks. They’re damn good rods. But I have a few (Sage, Loomis and Cabelas) that (for finished rods) cost $180 to $220. And they’re damned good rods too. Who makes Cabelas blanks anyway? It’s Loomis isn’t it? There are some really cheap graphite fly rods showing up now, like those made by Eagle Claw. Has anybody tried those? If you like soft, slow action rods, I can’t see any reason to buy an expensive one. What you get–with more money–is casting power. — /* Sandy Pittendrigh   –O0  * http://cns.montana.edu/~sandy/  */

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That’s a tough prescription to fill, Tom. I like a 3wt for bluegill and a 7wt for bass. Logically then a 5wt would be your blank of choice but I don’t think you’d be happy with it in either situation. Not that it wouldn’t work, I used an old 8′ Garcia Conolon 7/8wt for years as my one and only flyrod for bass & bluegill in the days before I knew any better and I caught a lot of fish and had great time with it. The other consideration besides rod weight is action. I like a slow action for most situations, my canoe bluegill rod is a 9′ Winston 3wt, but for tossin’ big, wind eatin’ bass bugs a faster action works better for me, something along the lines of the discontinued Sage RPL series. Like I said, it’s a tough call, maybe some of the other warmwater guys in the group can recommend one and only one blank for both bluegill & bass but I’m afraid you have me stumped. — Ken Fortenberry

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Yucks,  slang, corruption of middle English, German Jux. =For fun TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’ll have to tell us more about yucks. — Ken Fortenberry

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The range and type of fly-rod blanks is very extensive. You will need to give us more information about what you wish to fish for, and under what circumstances, before we could be of any real assistance.

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In which case, I at least, am unable to help much. I have never fished for such species. Someone else will doubtless be able to help you with regard to weight length etc. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The range and type of fly-rod blanks is very extensive. You will need to give us more information about what you wish to fish for, and under what circumstances, before we could be of any real assistance.

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Question:

Pat Gilmore ask: <<Who is in control of this news group? Finecast Murphy

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Who is in control of this news group?

Hm……let’s see now……today is the 3rd, right?  I believe this Mr. Peetah’s week.

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Who is in control of this news group?

No, but they will be on the Simpsons Sunday night. — Charlie…

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Charles Darwin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Who is in control of this news group? Finecast

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Who is in control of this news group? Finecast

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Who is in control of this news group? Finecast

I would imagine that you took a little grief about announcing your pontoon boat sale on this newsgroup and that you’d like to discuss with the "master" why your ISP is giving you a hard time and what you possibly could have done wrong. Fair enough, but there is no "master". We defer to Ernie and Louie, but only because they have the balls to admit they’re actually old farts. The rest of the old farts around here are in denial. FWIW, Pat, I didn’t fire off a complaint to your ISP because that was the first bit of SPAM I’d seen from your direction and you’d explicitly apologized for it in the body of your SPAM. I don’t doubt though, that other members of this forum did not share my opinion, and sent polite complaints to your ISP. Whatever you had planned to say to the "master" you can say here in open forum. Most of us are assholes, few of us even polite, but there you go, it’s Usenet and you’ll just have to take your chances. I personally don’t mind an OCCASIONAL mention of sales and closeouts from regular contributors to this forum, but if you don’t contribute here, your commercials are not likely to be welcome here. That’s just my opinion, of course, and of the 112 regular posters here my opinion is worth somewhat less than 1/112. So, you were saying … — Ken Fortenberry

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That would be Manos. You know, the "hands of fate"? " The master will see you now……" -Muskie

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ROFL.  Good one!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Who is in control of this news group? No, but they will be on the Simpsons Sunday night. — Charlie…

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… We defer to Ernie and Louie, but only because they have the balls to admit they’re actually old farts. The rest of the old farts around here are in denial.

I am SO sorry, how on earth could I have forgotten Frank Church "the masseuse magnet" and John Popp "the one man militia". Please forgive the old fart oversight. — Ken Fortenberry

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Who is in control of this news group? Hm……let’s see now……today is the 3rd, right?  I believe this Mr. Peetah’s week.

Typical, one of the worst weeks in ROFF history and it’s all my fault. Peter (counting the days to Wolfie’s week)

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Who is in control of this news group? Finecast

You are. — "Our eyes and hands and feet will give us the same assistance in doing mischief as in doing good; but it would not therefore be better for the world, that all mankind were blind and lame. Arms are not to be laid aside by honest men, because carried by assassins and ruffians; they are to be used the rather for this very reason." -George Campbell

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Who is in control of this news group? Finecast

No,no,no, Pat.  What is in control of this news group.  Who’s gone fishing in someone’s pontoon boat. Louie

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Well, and someone doesn’t give it to anyone, ya know. Who knows, but then again, he’s out fishing with someone’s boat. Ask anyone! Noone will tell you what is in control. Herman, someone too. Who is in control of this news group? Finecast No,no,no, Pat.  What is in control of this news group.  Who’s gone fishing in someone’s pontoon boat. Louie

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

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_______  Did someone call? — George Gehrke http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html   affordable bamboo flyrods & blanks For the Book of Gink: : )  Fly fishing is so much fun its something you should be able to do in bed.

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Who is in control of this news group?

That would be me. What did you want, my son? Put down the chainsaw and listen to me. It’s time for us to join in the fight.

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Lucky for you Ken, or I wuz gonna borrow one of John’s guns…… I do appreciate the remembrance tho, one does not work this hard for 67 yrs to lose ones’ old fart status to a Bud induced brain fart. <g Frank (massuese magnet) Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … We defer to Ernie and Louie, but only because they have the balls to admit they’re actually old farts. The rest of the old farts around here are in denial. I am SO sorry, how on earth could I have forgotten Frank Church "the masseuse magnet" and John Popp "the one man militia". Please forgive the old fart oversight. — Ken Fortenberry

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ahem, Please cite your reference. And, it’s Chain-sign. The whole song is about stopping what you are doing to start doing it, or doing what they always say not to do – Daring to be stupid as it were. Thanks for reminding me of the song… Much thanks to Al Y. for the amusing albums. T. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Who is in control of this news group? That would be me. What did you want, my son? Put down the chainsaw and listen to me. It’s time for us to join in the fight.

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ahem, Please cite your reference. And, it’s Chain-sign. The whole song is about stopping what you are doing to start doing it, or doing what they always say not to do – Daring to be stupid as it were.

Your wish is my command (it’s "chainsaw", not that I have the CD or anything): Dare To Be Stupid    Put down that chainsaw and listen to me    It’s time for us to join in the fight    It time to let your babies grow up to be cowboys    It time to let the bed bugs bite    You better put all your eggs in one basket    You better count your chickens before they hatch    You better sell some wine before its time    You better find yourself an itch to scratch    You better squeeze all the charmin you can    When Mr. Whipple’s not around    Stick your head in the microwave and get yourself a tan    Talk with your mouth full    Bite the hand that feeds you    Bite off more than you can chew    What can you do?    Dare to be stupid    Take some wooden nickels    Look for Mr. Goodbar    Get your mojo working now    I’ll show you how    You can    Dare to be stupid    You can turn the other cheek    You can just give up the ship    You can eat a bunch of sushi and forget to leave a tip    Dare to be stupid    Come on and dare to be stupid    It’s so easy to do    Dare to be stupid    We’re all waiting for you       Lets go    It’s time to make a mountain out of a molehill    So can I have a volunteer    There’s no more time for crying over spilt milk    Now it’s time for crying in your beer    Settle down raise a family join the PTA    Buy some sensible shoes and a chevrolet    Then party til you’re broke and they drag you away    It’s okay    You can dare to be stupid    It’s like spitting on a fish    It’s like barking up a tree    It’s like they say you gotta buy one if you want    To get one free    Dare to be stupid    Yeah why don’t you dare to be stupid    It’s so easy to do    Dare to be stupid    We’re all waiting for you    Dare to be stupid    Burn your candle at both ends    Look a gift horse in the mouth    Mashed potatoes can be your friends    You can be a coffee achiever    You can sit around the house and Leave It To Beaver    The Future’s up to you    So what you gonna do    Dare to be stupid    Dare to be stupid    What did I say?    Dare to be stupid    Tell me what did I say?    Dare to be stupid    It’s alright    Dare to be stupid    We can be stupid all night    Dare to be stupid    Come on join the crowd    Dare to be stupid    Shout it out loud    Dare to be stupid    I can’t hear you    Dare to be stupid    Okay, I can hear you now    Dare to be stupid    Let’s go    Dare to be stupid    Dare to be stupid    Dare to be stupid    Dare to be stupid    Dare to be stupid    Dare to be stupid    Dare to be stupid    Dare to be stupid Thanks for reminding me of the song…

Yeah, dammit, I’ve had that song stuck in my head ever since Mike put it in his sig. ,      - Ken — "The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness.  You have to catch it yourself."      -Ben Franklin

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Who is in control of this news group? Finecast

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Who is in control of this news group? Finecast

This is gonna be fun!

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Who is in control of this news group? Finecast This is gonna be fun!

Harry Mason www.Troutflies.com

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Question:

I’ve been quite interested in this discussion of wealth. It seems to me that our society equates financial wealth with well-being. And, of course, the two are not the same. IMO, despite what your W-2 or 401(k) statements say, if you (1) spend less than you earn, (2) live in a place you enjoy, (3) are surrounded by people who love you, (4) and have time to fish with regularity then I say that you, sir, are a wealthy man indeed. Gack if you want to, you hardened bastards, but I believe it’s the truth. –Steve

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No gacking here, partner.  Well said.  There are even wealthy and happy folks without #4.  Go figure. JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – IMO, despite what your W-2 or 401(k) statements say, if you (1) spend less than you earn, (2) live in a place you enjoy, (3) are surrounded by people who love you, (4) and have time to fish with regularity then I say that you, sir, are a wealthy man indeed. Gack if you want to, you hardened bastards, but I believe it’s the truth.

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Steve Zimmerman: IMO, despite what your W-2 or 401(k) statements say, if you (1) spend less than you earn, (2) live in a place you enjoy, (3) are surrounded by people who love you, (4) and have time to fish with regularity then I say that you, sir, are a wealthy man indeed. Gack if you want to, you hardened bastards, but I believe it’s the truth. –Steve

Well said, Steve.   I doubt you’ll get many "gacks" — none from me, anyway.  I look at my two daughters and their children and I know I am the wealthiest man on earth.  Of course, fishing where and when I want to doesn’t hurt either. <g Dave LaCourse

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Gack if you want to, you hardened bastards, but I believe it’s the truth.

Steve, Sounds like you found Utopia! And I thought it couldn’t be done. Even hardened bastards gotta soften up on this one! Cheers, Rick

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I’ve been quite interested in this discussion of wealth. It seems to me that our society equates financial wealth with well-being. And, of course, the two are not the same. IMO, despite what your W-2 or 401(k) statements say, if you (1) spend less than you earn, (2) live in a place you enjoy, (3) are surrounded by people who love you, (4) and have time to fish with regularity then I say that you, sir, are a wealthy man indeed. Gack if you want to, you hardened bastards, but I believe it’s the truth.

Although you stated that financial wealth and well-being are not the same, you seemed to combine the two in your definition and came up with some ingredients for being happy. However, I agree with your sentiment and it’s part of what I was referring to when I said I considered myself wealthy. In the financial area, I think #1 is a place where many people seem to have trouble. I have friends whose monthly debt payments ie. cars, homes, credit cards etc. are greater than what I earn. Although they make, to me, alot of money, they are living from paycheck to paycheck. Although the idea of feeling financially wealthy is personal and subjective, it seems to me that Americans have gotten some weirdly distorted ideas about what it means to be wealthy if someone in the richest nation in world, who earns in the top 1% of its citizens, doesn’t see himself as wealthy. Willi

Response:

Not just living from paycheck to pay check, but never getting out of their hole, or even digging themselves deeper. As Mr. McCawber put it: Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – less than you earn, (2) live in a place you enjoy, (3) are surrounded by people who love you, (4) and have time to fish with regularity then I say that you, sir, are a wealthy man indeed. In the financial area, I think #1 is a place where many people seem to have trouble. I have friends whose monthly debt payments ie. cars, homes, credit cards etc. are greater than what I earn. Although they make, to me, alot of money, they are living from paycheck to paycheck.

Response:

Nah, they just THINK they’re happy.. No gacking here, partner.  Well said.  There are even wealthy and happy folks without #4.  Go figure. JR IMO, despite what your W-2 or 401(k) statements say, if you (1) spend less than you earn, (2) live in a place you enjoy, (3) are surrounded by people who love you, (4) and have time to fish with regularity then I say that you, sir, are a wealthy man indeed. Gack if you want to, you hardened bastards, but I believe it’s the truth.

– -Mark  –  Particle Salad/ Noom Room Studio  http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad  mp3 songs:  http://www.mp3.com/particlesalad

Response:

I’ve been quite interested in this discussion of wealth.

I couldn’t agree with you more.  I’m facing a job loss at the end of the year, potentially forcing me (although I do look forward to it) to be a stay at home dad to my six month old son.  I have the most loving wife and other family around me.  And I have my realatively new found love (1 1/2 years now) of time with my fly rods.  You know, I really cannot expect any more from life at this time.  It is a wonderful realization.  In spite of any ominous things job-wise, I couldn’t ask for a better life. Looking forward to teaching Sparky the ways of fly fishing! Bruce Thomsen

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#5 having a really cool car. Only joking… Well half joking. Wealth is coming home and having your daughter (4) come running yelling "Daddy’s home" and give you a big hug. Having my son(8) blind side me as I walk past the den with my daughter in my arms, although well intentioned, I could do without. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been quite interested in this discussion of wealth. It seems to me that our society equates financial wealth with well-being. And, of course, the two are not the same. IMO, despite what your W-2 or 401(k) statements say, if you (1) spend less than you earn, (2) live in a place you enjoy, (3) are surrounded by people who love you, (4) and have time to fish with regularity then I say that you, sir, are a wealthy man indeed. Gack if you want to, you hardened bastards, but I believe it’s the truth. –Steve

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In my mid twenties, I was frustrated with life.  I was being laid off from my therapy job in the hospital and decided to take control of my own life by becoming wealty.   To make a long story short, I got scammed, lost my ass for 3 years and ended up far worse off then I was.  But I learned one thing that made it all worth it. Money is not freedom….. Time is.  Having time to spend with my wife and kids, fly fish 50+ times a year, go hunting with my buddies and working on my mini-farm are priceless. I think I learned the most important lesson in life and it all it "cost" me was a bad credit record for 10 years, haha.  Seriously, I am so thankful that I figured the real priorities out while my kids are still young.  I spent 4 years as a stay at home dad and now am just returning to school for my Masters degree.  Life is good. Mike

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Question:

ROFL.  You got it, Bob.  Good advice.  However, you forgot goats, trees, lawyers, and boiled peanuts!  <g

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BASTAARRRDDD!!!

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Boiled Peanuts, what the hell are boiled peanuts??

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ROFL.  You got it, Bob.  Good advice.  However, you forgot goats, trees, lawyers, and boiled peanuts!  <g

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Boiled Peanuts, what the hell are boiled peanuts??

Well, not to put too fine a point on it but, they are peanuts that have been boiled.      

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Hello everyone, I have decided to try this thing called Fly fishing.  I live in Northeast Ohio and will be fishing for Smallmouth, Steelhead and a stray Salmon most of the time. I don’t have a small fortune to spend, so I need some input on what I need and what size.     I have been doing some reading on fly fishing and I understand some of the termanology that goes along with it. There is a hell of alot to learn and I don’t even own a rod yet  HELP Thanks Jim Vonderau

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Hello everyone, I have decided to try this thing called Fly fishing.  I live in Northeast Ohio and will be fishing for Smallmouth, Steelhead and a stray Salmon most of the time. I don’t have a small fortune to spend, so I need some input on what I need and what size.     I have been doing some reading on fly fishing and I understand some of the termanology that goes along with it. There is a hell of alot to learn and I don’t even own a rod yet  HELP Thanks Jim Vonderau

Uh, oh… Get ready James… You’ve just called in an artillery strike at your chair!! INCOMING!!! — Michael Era

Question:

I came up with a great new sport. It makes Fishing look like kids stuff 1) Get up into an airplane Piper cub will do and fly over someones ranch where they have cows. Get a large grappling hook and sharpen all the barbs. fly down towards the cows and swing the hook behind them. If you hook one ty it off onto one of the wing struts and gain altitude. I call this "beefing"

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Uh oh – beware the Noll troll who wrote, in part: … It makes Fishing look like kids stuff.

I call this "beefing." << -tran

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I came up with a great new sport. It makes Fishing look like kids stuff 1) Get up into an airplane Piper cub will do and fly over someones ranch where they have cows. Get a large grappling hook and sharpen all the barbs. fly down towards the cows and swing the hook behind them. If you hook one ty it off onto one of the wing struts and gain altitude. I call this "beefing" Hey Nimrod! Here’s a novel idea! Forget the cows!!!  Try doing this on jetskiers! A target that is moving would take more skill. Cows would be far too easy anyone could do that! Your going to have to work on a new name though…….Bummer !      Steve

Right on!!!

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Question:

I was noticing that someone posted a question earlier in this newsgroup asking if there were any books illustrating the lifecycles of flies in certain parts of the US at various times of the year.  I am also looking for info on a good beginning FF setup.  Therefore, if anyone has some good book suggestions on how to choose the right fly depending on where you are and what you’re fishing for as well as any books/catalogs that describe FF equipment and techniques, please post them. Thanks in advance, The Iceburg

Response:

FlyFishing for Dummies is pretty damn good and as simple as things get. Tim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was noticing that someone posted a question earlier in this newsgroup asking if there were any books illustrating the lifecycles of flies in certain parts of the US at various times of the year.  I am also looking for info on a good beginning FF setup.  Therefore, if anyone has some good book suggestions on how to choose the right fly depending on where you are and what you’re fishing for as well as any books/catalogs that describe FF equipment and techniques, please post them. Thanks in advance, The Iceburg

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Question:

Is there any spey rod manufacturer? Most manufacturer call them two handed rods, but they don’t respond to true speycasting, they are too stiff. Are there any soft action two handed rods out there? Does ST.CRIOX make a spey or two handed rod? Remove the * in the e-mail address, this is for SPAM.

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  Is there any spey rod manufacturer? Most manufacturer call them two   handed rods, but they don’t respond to true speycasting, they are too   stiff.

How do you know this?  Have you tried any of these rods to which you refer.  I fish with a friend of mine who uses a sage 1015-3 (a very stiff rod) and he can spey cast like mad – and he can throw sink tips on the end of a double taper with ease.  I think it is a myth to say that you can’t spey cast with a stiffer rod – it’s just not how they used to do it on the river spey because they didn’t have materials to make stiff rods.  Are there any soft action two handed rods out   there? Does ST.CRIOX make a spey or two handed rod?

Yes.  Try the Sage 9140-4.  It is a soft rod, and the rod that I happen to use (and love).  St. Croix makes a pretty nice rod though it seems quite heavy to me – it is reasonably priced though. From your questions, it sounds like you need to get down to a decent shop and put your hands on some rods.  All the talk in the world on this group isn’t going to help. Once again: GO to a decent shop and try some out.  If you live in the Seattle, WA area, I can recommend some places. -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html NOTICE: DO NOT ADD MY NAME TO _ANY_ MAILING LISTS.  

Response:

Is there any spey rod manufacturer? Most manufacturer call them two handed rods, but they don’t respond to true speycasting, they are too stiff. Are there any soft action two handed rods out there? Does ST.CRIOX make a spey or two handed rod? Remove the * in the e-mail address, this is for SPAM.

try Winston Rods at www.winstonrods.com also Hardy and Bruce and Walker, two English makers have a reputation for making so called true spey rods but you might have a problem sourcing those rods to try. Hardy rods were once popular here in Canada but are now hard to come by as are B&W’s. Some Sage rods are of that type but I don’t know the specifics Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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  Is there any spey rod manufacturer? Most manufacturer call them two   handed rods, but they don’t respond to true speycasting, they are too   stiff. How do you know this?  Have you tried any of these rods to which you refer.  I fish with a friend of mine who uses a sage 1015-3 (a very stiff rod) and he can spey cast like mad – and he can throw sink tips on the end of a double taper with ease.  I think it is a myth to say that you can’t spey cast with a stiffer rod – it’s just not how they used to do it on the river spey because they didn’t have materials to make stiff rods.

since I’ve been interested in Speycasting I’ve heard that there are 2 kinds of double handed rods –  stiff rods for overhead casting and speyrods. I think Mike Maxwell of Vancouver BC and author of "The Art and Science of Speyfishing" coined the term ‘true speyrod’ – to describe his own line of rods I believe.  Other ‘experts’ such as Ehor Boyanowski and the late Roger Turner have said and written much the same thing According to Maxwell ‘true speyrods’ display a compound flex when speycasting (which is something like but not the same as roll casting) like a stylized S but with a big curve at the butt and a small curve at the tip. According to Maxwell stiff rods can’t do this and speycasts can only be ‘approximated’. Turner and Boyanowski have said much the same thing – but as they like Mr Shoalseeker and myself are Vancouver area boys like Maxwell could be we’ve just all been exposed to the same dogma – anyone else have any experience with this particularly in Great Britain and Scandanavia? From your questions, it sounds like you need to get down to a decent shop and put your hands on some rods.  All the talk in the world on this group isn’t going to help.

good advice. Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

Response:

This is from an article in "Fisherman’s Handbook" from 1977 which seems relevant to this discussion. Carbon fibre rods were just available when this was written. "Most salmon fly rods today have an action which may be felt through from the heavy tip to the butt. A tip with this fairly rigid action is required because of the need to "mend" the line or straighten it out. This need arises when the strength of the current varies at different points across the stream and the line is pulled into a bow shape as it is carried downstream. this in turn carries the fly back across the flow at an unnatural angle, making it unacceptable to the salmon. The fisherman must then roll the line to mend it as the bow not only presents the fly unfavourably but also lessens the effectiveness of a strike should there be, by any odd chance, a take. A heavy tipped rod enables a weighty length of double tapered line to be lifted off the water and mended with reasonable ease." The article also points out that before carbon fibre, built cane with spliced joints was the favoured choice as it resisted the twisting force better exerted by Spey casting. — Regards Peter (Remove "nospam"to email)

<snip  : :According to Maxwell stiff rods can’t do this and speycasts can only be :’approximated’. Turner and Boyanowski have said much the same thing – :but as they like Mr Shoalseeker and myself are Vancouver area boys like :Maxwell could be we’ve just all been exposed to the same dogma – : :anyone else have any experience with this particularly in Great Britain :and Scandanavia?

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A good spey caster can easily adjust the speed of the casting stroke and use any rod to their advantage.  This distinction between "over head rods" and "true spey rods" is also not particularly useful. In addition to casting characteristics, one should consider what kind of fishing he/she is going to do with a rod. I fish for steelhead in medium to big rivers, and I like to fish lazily. I hate to repeat shooting and striping line. I just roll/Spey cast long line (to me, at least, 70 feet or so) and swing the fly. Step down and repeat the process. It is so easy and efficient. (Effective? I am not sure because I hook steelhead every 30 hours or so.) For this kind of fishing, a slow rod gives me a peaceful feeling. I can enjoy more the surrounding as well as fishing.

- this pretty much agrees with what Maxwell says about stiff overhead rods vs slow rods; they are easier to spey cast and less tiresome to use through the day…. Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

Response:

Buy a spey rod from the home of spey casting (Scotland). Esthectically gorgeous, designed and built by reknowned cane rod builder David Norwich. David Norwich Icon Composites Hillside Works, Fountainhall, Nr. Galashiels,  TD1 2SU, Scotland from the USA dial 011 441  578 760 310 – Ken

Is there any spey rod manufacturer? Most manufacturer call them two handed

rods, but they don’t – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -respond to true speycasting, they are too stiff. Are there any soft action two handed rods out there? Does ST.CRIOX make a spey or two handed rod? Remove the * in the e-mail address, this is for SPAM.

Response:

A good spey caster can easily adjust the speed of the casting stroke and use any rod to their advantage.  This distinction between "over head rods" and "true spey rods" is also not particularly useful.  What IS useful is going to a decent shop where you can try (with the guidance of a knowledgable speycaster) several rods which span the range of actions.

I totally agree. If Spey casting is redirected roll casting, as I understand, it can be performed equally well with either fast "overhead/European-style" rods or slow "traditional Spey" rods. You just have to adjust your tempo of casting to the characteristics of a particular rods. I have used a G. Loomis’ very stiff and jerky IMX 8/9 weight 15 footer and a Winston’s soft and smooth 10 weight 15 footer. I prefer the Winston because it is just a joy to roll/Spey cast with it. I would say it is more forgiving. However, I could do with the Loomis everything I can do with the Winston. Actually, I could do at least two thing better with the Loomis than with the Winston. The Loomis could lift more line more easily than the Winston. And it is fun to overhead cast with the Loomis. I could cast further with the Loomis, too. In addition to casting characteristics, one should consider what kind of fishing he/she is going to do with a rod. I fish for steelhead in medium to big rivers, and I like to fish lazily. I hate to repeat shooting and striping line. I just roll/Spey cast long line (to me, at least, 70 feet or so) and swing the fly. Step down and repeat the process. It is so easy and efficient. (Effective? I am not sure because I hook steelhead every 30 hours or so.) For this kind of fishing, a slow rod gives me a peaceful feeling. I can enjoy more the surrounding as well as fishing. — Shinji Unno                     Karaoke Party in Seattle, WA, USA? Also a steelhead fly fisher               http://www.sbkaraoke.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Is there any spey rod manufacturer? Most manufacturer call them two     handed rods, but they don’t respond to true speycasting, they are too     stiff.   How do you know this?  Have you tried any of these rods to which you   refer.  I fish with a friend of mine who uses a sage 1015-3 (a very stiff   rod) and he can spey cast like mad – and he can throw sink tips   on the end of a double taper with ease.  I think it is a myth to say   that you can’t spey cast with a stiffer rod – it’s just not how they   used to do it on the river spey because they didn’t have materials to   make stiff rods.   since I’ve been interested in Speycasting I’ve heard that there are   2 kinds of double handed rods –  stiff rods for overhead casting and   speyrods. I think Mike Maxwell of Vancouver BC and author of "The Art and   Science of Speyfishing" coined the term ‘true speyrod’ – to describe   his own line of rods I believe.  

I’m quite familiar with the dogma, but I’ll stick by my statements. Note however, that I own a sage 9140-4 – the softest spey rod they make.  Partly out of luck, and partly I prefer the slower action.  As I say, my fishing buddy uses a 9150-3 – a very stiff stick – and casts a beautiful and tremendous line.  I don’t know what the hell it means to "only approximate a true spey cast" – nor can I possibly understand how such a notion is useful (especially to a beginner trying to find a new rod). A good spey caster can easily adjust the speed of the casting stroke and use any rod to their advantage.  This distinction between "over head rods" and "true spey rods" is also not particularly useful.  What IS useful is going to a decent shop where you can try (with the guidance of a knowledgable speycaster) several rods which span the range of actions.   Seriously, there is no better advice available than that contained in the previous sentence. As I say, I’d be happy to suggest a shop in the Seattle area. -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html NOTICE: DO NOT ADD MY NAME TO _ANY_ MAILING LISTS.  

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Question:

We are announcing the opening of a new full service catch and release flyfishing  resort located in North Central Colorado, near Walden, Colorado.  The new lodge  has a maximum capacity of 12 anglers per week and features gourmet foods,  outstanding new accommodations and twelve miles of virgin headwaters of the North Platte that have never been fished by the public.  Good populations of  browns, brookies, rainbows, cutthroats and cutbows in the same water.  All walk  and wade.  Guided.  Instruction available.  No extra costs.  For further  information, check out http://www.paloverde.com/~lilgriz/lgc.html or e-mail Tatum, Paradise Valley, Arizona  85253, or call 602-952-9732 for brochure.

Response:

We are announcing the opening of a new full service catch and release flyfishing  resort located in North Central Colorado, near Walden, Colorado.  The new lodge  has a maximum capacity of 12 anglers per week and features gourmet foods,  outstanding new accommodations and twelve miles of virgin headwaters of the North Platte that have never been fished by the public.  Good populations of  browns, brookies, rainbows, cutthroats and cutbows in the same water.  All walk  and wade.  Guided.  Instruction available.  No extra costs.  For further  information, check out http://www.paloverde.com/~lilgriz/lgc.html or e-mail Tatum, Paradise Valley, Arizona  85253, or call 602-952-9732 for brochure.

If you need a review, please call… Tim Walker Colorado Virgin Fishing Water Critic At Large

Response:

Far be it from me to criticize anyone trying to turn a buck, but it strikes me that this is what gives flyfishing a bad rep.  Oh well, it’s opening day in Pennsylvania tomorrow, the streams are well stocked, and it’s time for me to go out back and dig a few worms.  Anyone know where I can get some Powerbait between now and 8a.m.?                                          Mark Faulkner

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(Frogspritz) writes: Far be it from me to criticize anyone trying to turn a buck, but it strikes me that this is what gives flyfishing a bad rep.  Oh well, it’s opening day in Pennsylvania tomorrow, the streams are well stocked, and it’s time for me to go out back and dig a few worms.  Anyone know where I can get some Powerbait between now and 8a.m.?                                         Mark Faulkner

Oh, I thought he meant flyfishing resort water with some new Colorado virgins in it. I was trying to figure out how they made those girls virgins again.

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Question:

I am looking to hook up with women who flyfish in upstate ny or western ny area.  I am a bit tired of going fishing alone — teaching myself to flyfish — thinking that there must be other women who are accomplished flyfishers who would like to share their knowledge — and other beginners who would like to form an informal club.  I did attend a few meetings about flyfishing — but the men were not very open and friendly — they did not seem willing to offer help — maybe there are some other guys out there who really want to fish with women as friends?  I want to learn more!

Response:

I am looking to hook up with women who flyfish

        Yeah, me too, baby! Uh-heh heh.           Yeah, Yeah, that would be cool.  Cool!         Hey, baby, wanna see my rod, eh-heh heh.         Yeah, Yeah, rod, heh heh, cool.         Sincerly;         Bevis and Butt-head.         eh heh heh.

Response:

writes: I am looking to hook up with women who flyfish    Yeah, me too, baby! Uh-heh heh.      Yeah, Yeah, that would be cool.  Cool!    Hey, baby, wanna see my rod, eh-heh heh.    Yeah, Yeah, rod, heh heh, cool.    Sincerly;    Bevis and Butt-head.    eh heh heh.

Another less than literate member of our newsgroup. You should probably spend less time in this forum and more time holding onto your two inch sluggo. Bill Fling

Response:

I am looking to hook up with women who flyfish in upstate ny or western ny area.  I am a bit tired of going fishing alone — teaching myself to flyfish — thinking that there must be other women who are accomplished flyfishers who would like to share their knowledge — and other beginners who would like to form an informal club.  I did attend a few meetings about flyfishing — but the men were not very open and friendly — they did not seem willing to offer help — maybe there are some other guys out there who really want to fish with women as friends?  I want to learn more!

To whom it may concern (e.g. MM37): I know of at least 2 dedicated flyfishers of the female gender. These women tie some fine flies. They live in the Buffalo area and fish for trout and steelhead. Both are graduate students. Both would help you learn more. If you are intersted E Mail me. You can contact them on the net. Iron Blue Dun -Doug Easton

Response:

  I am looking to hook up with women who flyfish    Yeah, me too, baby! Uh-heh heh.      Yeah, Yeah, that would be cool.  Cool!    Hey, baby, wanna see my rod, eh-heh heh.    Yeah, Yeah, rod, heh heh, cool.    Sincerly;    Bevis and Butt-head.    eh heh heh.

Boy, I’ll bet a caddis fly has trouble landing on something that _small_.  Oops, thought that was your brain!

Response:

I am looking to hook up with women who flyfish in upstate ny or western ny area.  I am a bit tired of going fishing alone — teaching myself to flyfish — thinking that there must be other women who are accomplished flyfishers who would like to share their knowledge — and other beginners who would like to form an informal club.  I did attend a few meetings about flyfishing — but the men were not very open and friendly — they did not seem willing to offer help — maybe there are some other guys out there who really want to fish with women as friends?  I want to learn more!

MM: Sorry about some of the responses you’ve gotten.  There are a *few* less-than-bright people who frequent this group. I can’t help you much on someone to fish with in NY, but if you ever get out to Iowa, let me know.  You can go along with me, my wife, and a good friend of hers and we’ll all catch lots of fish. You might consider trying again with one of the local groups.  I really believe there are open and helpful folks out there who can give you good advice and make you feel a little more welcome. Good luck, Bob

Response:

I’m a beginner at flyfishing also. And I fish in upstate New York, mainly in the Finger Lakes region, especially east of Cayuga Lake, south of Cortland and all the way down towards PA. I know of several people who are very willing to help me. I’m very excited to fish the Delware for the first time sometime this spring. I have many places in the above areas where I have fished with a spinning outfit. I have Department of Environmental Conversation stocking maps   for Region 7, and I call the DEC regularly to find when they actually dump the trout into my favorite spots. But I am not a women, although I am always looking for somemone to fish with. dp "A bad day of fishing is better than a good day of Work"

Response:

Does anyone have suggestions for patterns to take Shad on?  

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Question:

I am a flyfisherman at the university of Illinois.  I have not met any other this message knows any good ffishing spots in this area please contact me at the above email address. kyle Bowerman . .

Response:

(bowerman kyle) writes:

Kyle:  I sense from your plea that you would probably enjoy meeting Mr. Biglips.  Take some of your pattented troutchow flies and head down to the Sangamon.  Cast to the tailing "Mud-salmon" and hope that your disc drag doesn’t melt.   For fly-fishing Arizona was tough, but Illinois is probably worse.  Did you think of transferring again, maybe to UW Eau Clair?  Did you investigate the South Br. of the Sangamon near Taylorville yet?  If it is really hot let us all know so we can crowd in there.       Sincerely: Illinois guy with grand cherokee, cell-phone and wife.

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