Question:

  . . . exactly. And its nice not having to pick the pellets out. An obvious fin/feather combo, without all the noise.

Exactly! <g — Warren Findley Remove (nospamZZ) to respond via email http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/

Response:

  . . . exactly. And its nice not having to pick the pellets out. An obvious fin/feather combo, without all the noise. Exactly! <g

And just like fish, you can use parts of one to catch another. Joe F.

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Ken, Kevin, Warren… Howdy!! I am @ site #80 in the Mammoth Hot Springs campground….

Richard, Don’t know which you’ll see first but I left a note at your campsite and another at Clave Central letting them know where you are. Clave Central is located at the Eagle Creek Campground. It’s about two miles from Gardiner on the road to Jardine. Coming from Mammoth the road to Jardine is the first right after you cross the Yellowstone. Sorry to have missed you, … Have a GREAT Clave ! — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

got it ken…it is now fri evening…i will drop by clave central and look around…..then, its back down to the hot creek, for the evening hot bath…another great day of fishing today.. i took a lot of digital photos…will post later… richard / colorado

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ken, Kevin, Warren… Howdy!! I am @ site #80 in the Mammoth Hot Springs campground…. Richard, Don’t know which you’ll see first but I left a note at your campsite and another at Clave Central letting them know where you are. Clave Central is located at the Eagle Creek Campground. It’s about two miles from Gardiner on the road to Jardine. Coming from Mammoth the road to Jardine is the first right after you cross the Yellowstone. Sorry to have missed you, … Have a GREAT Clave ! — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Dammit! Something’s wrong with my computer – it keeps flashing to some Internet Flyfishing Soap channel… /daytripper (as the world turns) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – got it ken…it is now fri evening…i will drop by clave central and look around…..then, its back down to the hot creek, for the evening hot bath…another great day of fishing today.. i took a lot of digital photos…will post later… richard / colorado Ken, Kevin, Warren… Howdy!! I am @ site #80 in the Mammoth Hot Springs campground…. Richard, Don’t know which you’ll see first but I left a note at your campsite and another at Clave Central letting them know where you are. Clave Central is located at the Eagle Creek Campground. It’s about two miles from Gardiner on the road to Jardine. Coming from Mammoth the road to Jardine is the first right after you cross the Yellowstone. Sorry to have missed you, … Have a GREAT Clave ! — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Just ask Warren about the duck…. giggle…. snort… oh, I can’t hold it any longer! Hahh.hah..hahhh…Jeeez… you think he’ll make fun of the way I fish??… — Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dammit! Something’s wrong with my computer – it keeps flashing to some Internet Flyfishing Soap channel… /daytripper (as the world turns)

Response:

Just ask Warren about the duck…. giggle…. snort… oh, I can’t hold it any longer! Hahh.hah..hahhh…Jeeez… you think he’ll make fun of the way I fish??…

Why stop at fish?  Why are ducks so special that you can’t catch them? <g Warren

Response:

Just ask Warren about the duck…. giggle…. snort… oh, I can’t hold it any longer! Hahh.hah..hahhh…Jeeez… you think he’ll make fun of the way I fish??… Why stop at fish?  Why are ducks so special that you can’t catch them? <g Warren

. . . exactly. And its nice not having to pick the pellets out. An obvious fin/feather combo, without all the noise. Dave

Response:

Ken, Kevin, Warren… Howdy!! I am @ site #80 in the Mammoth Hot Springs campground….do drop by and let me know the registration desk told me Ken cancelled his frontier cabin reservations…she was not aware of the group staying in a set of cabins…..anyway…I had a great afternoon (thur) session on the Yellowstone River, just above Tower Falls… I am not checking e mail regularly…so, drop by the camp site!!…otherwise, maybe i will run into you guys out on the rivers!!.. hands….then, back up to the campsite.. Regards.. Richard / colorado

Response:

Question:

I’m planning a familiy trip down to Islamorada this summer. Since I’m on a budget I can unfortunately only afford to hire a guide for one day. How good are the opportunities for doing some solo wade-flyfishing in the Islamorada area. Too vast and crowded? Tips are appreciated, Tor Larsen

Response:

Spme State Parks w/ood access South of there

Response:

Rook2, I was there last year and had a fine time fishing from the road side. If you head on out towards Key West not very far from Islamorada there’s a number road side areas you can fish where the boat cuts come close to shore. I pulled two fine bone fish out this way. Good luck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Spme State Parks w/ood access South of there

Response:

Question:

I’ve owned a cabin on the banks of the San Juan and fished it for almost 30 yrs.It is a year round river.The only hard time to fish it is in most of May and June when the Waters is High,Somtimes 10  times as  much water. The guides still do well with drift Boats There are lots of good Guides. Id recommed Born and Raise’d owned by Tim Chaves. Call Abe’s At Navijo Dam NM. Abe’s  has a store,rest, and can book the guides. ( Tim is Abe’s son.Ive found his guides very good.I have my own Drift boat now,and they are still helpful. I was up there last week and it was awsome fishing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m going to be in NM in August, and would plan a trip to the San Juan if it was worth it. Has anyone had experience there at that time of year? Is it truly an "all season" river? Any suggestions on guides? If not replying here, please reply to my e-mail. Thanks in advance to those who would consider advising me on making my trip more enjoyable.

Response:

I’m going to be in NM in August, and would plan a trip to the San Juan if

it was worth it. Has anyone had experience there at that time of year? Is it truly an "all season" river? Any suggestions on guides?<<< Sorry this is so late. If I can still help, give me a hollar at work (800-395-6397) and I’ll tell you how great the fishing is. I’m the outdoor editor for the local paper and I talk to guides, anglers and others at least weekly. Fishing has been very good all summer. Last weekend they held a catch-and-release tournament and the winner caught 46 fish averaging 16 inches. Now this was a bi-fly tournament where competitors could only tally fish when using one of two flies (one wet and one dry) they chose each day. If they broke off, they were without that fly for the rest of the day. Great nymphing using chocolate emergers and dry fly action has been real good as well. A caddis hatch is slowing way down now, but there is still a good baetis hatch every day. I’m not a real serious fly-angler, however, so I don’t know this stuff first hand. Give me a hollar, or drop e-mail, if you’d like more info. I could offer the names of several great outfitters, whose guides will put you on fish consistently. Average fish is 16 inches. One 26-incher pushing nine pounds was caught in the last week or two. Darren Darren Marcy Crouch Mesa, N.M. 505-333-2222

Response:

The San Juan is truly a year round river. All you need is a supply of small

size #18-22 (#20 most widely used) dark brown or light grey  RS-2’s and or WD-40’s as your dropper fly and an attractor fly 6 to 8 inches above, use a San Juan worm, disco midge, egg etc…every other bug used on the river is a variation or cousin to the RS-2 or WD-40.<<< Everything said is true to the best my knowledge. Darren Darren Marcy Crouch Mesa, N.M. 505-333-2222

Response:

Sorry this is so late. If I can still help, give me a hollar at work (800-395-6397) and I’ll tell you how great the fishing is. I’m the outdoor editor for the local paper and I talk to guides, anglers and others at least weekly. Fishing has been very good all summer. Last weekend they held a catch-and-release tournament and the winner caught 46 fish averaging 16 inches.

[el snippo] Well, that last sentence ought to get Our Friend Tim in a rich lather again. I swear you guys go out of your way to get him all riled up…

Response:

Well, that last sentence ought to get Our Friend Tim in a rich lather again. I swear you guys go out of your way to get him all riled up…

No, sorry. I’m new here and didn’t mean to rile anyone up. I assume this Tim guy doesn’t like numbers trotted out. Sorry, I’m not big into numbers myself, but some people are impressed with inches and fish caught per hour and all that. To me, if I can forget about work for a while, I’m ahead of the game. <G Darren Darren Marcy Crouch Mesa, N.M. 505-333-2222

Response:

I’m going to be in NM in August, and would plan a trip to the San Juan if it was worth it. Has anyone had experience there at that time of year? Is it truly an "all season" river? Any suggestions on guides? If not replying here, please reply to my e-mail. Thanks in advance to those who would consider advising me on making my trip more enjoyable.

Response:

The San Juan is truly a year round river. All you need is a supply of small size #18-22 (#20 most widely used) dark brown or light grey  RS-2’s and or WD-40’s as your dropper fly and an attractor fly 6 to 8 inches above, use a San Juan worm, disco midge, egg etc…every other bug used on the river is a variation or cousin to the RS-2 or WD-40. No guide needed ( they never hurt tho and you can find some good guides at abe’s if needed). Expect lots of people but if your using the above bugs you will catch fish. I guarantee it!!!!!! ] -Mike

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Question:

I’ve attended two of last three Denver shows (‘95 & ‘97).  It’s going be a tough call as to which trade show to attend for 1998;  Denver or Salt Lake….Attending both can stretch a small budget.  I’m passing to see how this whole political matter shakes out. I received letters from both Orvis & Umpqua indicating they will not attend EITHER show.  The lists I’ve received about both shows’ attendees shows a heavier representation of the major rod companies at Salt Lake City Show.  My feeling is more people are favoring Salt Lake.

I’d say that Orvis doesn’t need to attend.  They have a huge network of shops, and lodges, and strong mail order operation.  They hardly need to do another show. Umpquah, I’m not so sure about.  While they still seem to be the number one supplier of flies, I can help but wonder about their solvency in the present market.  For instance, they used to have a web presence of sorts at flyfishers.com.  They now seem to be doing their site inhouse and it’s a real stinker.  A company like umpqua would be expected to leave such work to pros – highly paid ones – to ensure the highest quality.  Look at The winston and orvis sites – these are very well done sites and did not come cheap.  What’s up with Umpqua? A little trouble in paradise? </c

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve attended two of last three Denver shows (‘95 & ‘97).  It’s going be a tough call as to which trade show to attend for 1998;  Denver or Salt Lake….Attending both can stretch a small budget.  I’m passing to see how this whole political matter shakes out. I received letters from both Orvis & Umpqua indicating they will not attend EITHER show.  The lists I’ve received about both shows’ attendees shows a heavier representation of the major rod companies at Salt Lake City Show.  My feeling is more people are favoring Salt Lake. I’d say that Orvis doesn’t need to attend.  They have a huge network of shops, and lodges, and strong mail order operation.  They hardly need to do another show. Umpquah, I’m not so sure about.  While they still seem to be the number one supplier of flies, I can help but wonder about their solvency in the present market.  For instance, they used to have a web presence of sorts at flyfishers.com.  They now seem to be doing their site inhouse and it’s a real stinker.  A company like umpqua would be expected to leave such work to pros – highly paid ones – to ensure the highest quality.  Look at The winston and orvis sites – these are very well done sites and did not come cheap.  What’s up with Umpqua? A little trouble in paradise? </c

      Yes, it’s my understanding they’ve been bought out.                                                             John Popp                                                        in Sanford Fl.

Response:

Jon—You’re correct,  Umpqua has been purchased by an investment group.  I’m sure their main focus is ROI & Dennis Black is happily retired.  I looked for the hard copy letter they sent to their accounts in making the official anouncement about 5-6 months ago …but couldn’t find it to relay the name of the group. This is what’s been going on in the industry the last few years;  Sage, Scott, Powell etc. to name a few.  Some of the groups are knowldgeable about the industry & some don’t seem to be that well intuned.  Nevertheless they’re business people & put in place execs who are business oriented…which is the way it should be if the focus is ROI.  Ideally, they should be both flyfishng savy & business keen.  Just like everything else…mergers, buy-outs downsizing etc…maybe the industry needs this movement to stay healthy. As for the two shows;  I feel there’s a lot of politics, money & super-egos involved.  It’ll be interesting to observe what transpires.  But I feel the small, independent fly shop is put in a difficult decision mode. CyberFly

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip Umpquah, I’m not so sure about.  While they still seem to be the number one supplier of flies, I can help but wonder about their solvency in the present market.  For instance, they used to have a web presence of sorts at flyfishers.com.  They now seem to be doing their site inhouse and it’s a real stinker.  A company like umpqua would be expected to leave such work to pros – highly paid ones – to ensure the highest quality.  Look at The winston and orvis sites – these are very well done sites and did not come cheap.  What’s up with Umpqua? A little trouble in paradise? </c       Yes, it’s my understanding they’ve been bought out.                                                             John Popp                                                        in Sanford Fl.

Really?  Who, I wonder? If true,it’s not too much of a surprise.  UFM has been plagued with all sorts of internal trouble for years.  The principals may have had enough and packed it in.

Response:

Cyberfly — You raise an excellent question about the future of the business side of flyfishing. It doesn’t seem likely that the "industry" can support two shows. I was surprised to learn that some of the most respected pros in the business are going to the Salt Lake show. I think this is just one more sign that the business side of flyfishing is in for some major shakeups in the immediate future. It’ll be interesting to watch. One of the things I wish for is a company to come along that offers an excellent lightweight saltwater flyrod for $200. BobE. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve attended two of last three Denver shows (‘95 & ‘97).  It’s going be a tough call as to which trade show to attend for 1998;  Denver or Salt Lake….Attending both can stretch a small budget.  I’m passing to see how this whole political matter shakes out. I received letters from both Orvis & Umpqua indicating they will not attend EITHER show.  The lists I’ve received about both shows’ attendees shows a heavier representation of the major rod companies at Salt Lake City Show.  My feeling is more people are favoring Salt Lake. CyberFly

Response:

I’ve attended two of last three Denver shows (‘95 & ‘97).  It’s going be a tough call as to which trade show to attend for 1998;  Denver or Salt Lake….Attending both can stretch a small budget.  I’m passing to see how this whole political matter shakes out. I received letters from both Orvis & Umpqua indicating they will not attend EITHER show.  The lists I’ve received about both shows’ attendees shows a heavier representation of the major rod companies at Salt Lake City Show.  My feeling is more people are favoring Salt Lake. CyberFly

Response:

Question:

-I’d like to go for trout in summertime in the mountains. -maybe somebody know a lodge for rent, nice places (colorado?) -and other useful tips?

Response:

-I’d like to go for trout in summertime in the mountains. -maybe somebody know a lodge for rent, nice places (colorado?) -and other useful tips?

Clara: Explore TroutNet.  You’ll find all you requested and more. Have fun. Go trout fishin’. Bob O…<<…<<…<<….

Response:

The Durango area in SW Colo has numerous great trout streams (San Juan, Dolores, Los Pinos, Animas, Florida rivers). For an upscale place to stay, with outstanding golf course, horse back riding, etc, try the Tamarron Hilton (800-678-1000), and call Duranglers Fly Shop (970-385-4081) for information and the best fly fishing guides in the area. For a more rustic small cabin, with kitchen facilities etc, located right on a fantastic trout stream (Florida River) call The O-Bar-O Guest Cabins through Durango info

Response:

Question:

May your Christmas Present be an Orvis Bamboo with a Guide missing! Mr. Gink — MZ

Response:

May your Christmas Present be an Orvis Bamboo with a Guide missing!

Oh yeah ?!?!?!? Well…may you get the same thing, and break it when you drop your "Tickle Me Elmo" on it, which breaks as well… TimW

Response:

   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    Organization: Fly Fishing Products Manufacturer    May your Christmas Present be an Orvis Bamboo with a Guide missing!    Mr. Gink AND, that you live in a climate where you can’t use it for growing tomatoes! cheers,         -tgades

Response:

Question:

[...] BTW, my fly vest contains about a half-bottle each of "Gink" and "Xink". They’ll be the last I’ll buy. Anyone else want to join this boycott?

Yes, I’d be MORE than happy to. Besides, I picked up a huge container of Albolene during my stay in the US anyway… — | Environmental Toxicology Section | phone: +31 30 535338              | | Utrecht University               | fax:   +31 30 535077              | | the Netherlands                  |                                   |

Response:

[...] I thought it was pretty damn entertaining. I mean, here are all these flyfishers wandering into this newsgroup looking for tips on tying humpies, or instructions on how to fix the zippers on their gravel guards and what do they find: George Gehrke, beloved creator of Gehrke’s Gink, going completely freakin’ batshit in a tirade that would have made Adolph Coors blush. It was great! Bring him back here! He’s got balls the size of church bells, and this newsgroup (indeed, perhaps even the world of angling as we know it) needs more like him!

I don’t think this is entertaining at all. Out of curiosity I sometimes wander into rec.outdoors.fishing.fly (which I abandoned way before there even was a rec.outdoors.fishing.fly, just rec.outdoors.fishing), and time and again fall right into a similar raving, name-calling, rabid flamefest. Enough to make me realize why I switched r.o.f.f. for the And George Gehrke might have balls the size of church bells, but he certainly has a brain the size of the brain of our beloved quarry — or as we more commonly say: the size of a pea. And I will buy no more of his products and will actively pursue that more Europeans act likewise… — | Environmental Toxicology Section | phone: +31 30 535338              | | Utrecht University               | fax:   +31 30 535077              | | the Netherlands                  |                                   |

Response:

The..(lot’s of shortwave radioesque editorial snipped)..Arrrrgh!!! A.J.Thramer

Y’know A.J., it’s not so much your opinion that bugs me, it’s your absolute view that only you, and those who share your views, are right and good.  Also, your narrow minded definition of those who DO something for a living is a load of crap (IMHO, of course). Ross

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [massive snip] I really think I’m wasting my time here. Color me gone. [snip again] I’ve about had enough of this net business anyhow.  My time is better used elsewhere. Color me gone. George Gehrke/Mr. Gink Yikes! I think we’ve just witnessed a self proclaimed "Professional Sportsman" go completely postal on the internet… That was the all time worst display of "professionalism" I’ve read in a long while, completely devoid of "sportsmanship". It was, in fact, simply a rant. Confronted with simple truth, he blew his brains out into the ether (not a pretty sight at all)…

I thought it was pretty damn entertaining. I mean, here are all these flyfishers wandering into this newsgroup looking for tips on tying humpies, or instructions on how to fix the zippers on their gravel guards and what do they find: George Gehrke, beloved creator of Gehrke’s Gink, going completely freakin’ batshit in a tirade that would have made Adolph Coors blush. It was great! Bring him back here! He’s got balls the size of church bells, and this newsgroup (indeed, perhaps even the world of angling as we know it) needs more like him!   George, if you’re still out there, switch to decaf, stop sniffing the Gink, turn off the Rush Limbo show, and get a grip…There’s room for you here…

Right on, but skip the "grip" part. And the decaf. Spinolio

Response:

I’d support a tax hike if Billy would use it to get the end of his nose fixed so that it did not look so much like a penis. TimW

Response:

Norm…those six occasions you mention wouldn’t have had any "pork" attached for the democrats agenda by any chance would they ? I believe there may have been a little more to those "occasions" than a vote on the environment. If not I would really like to know, pure speculation on my part but any details would be nice.

Response:

I wouldn’t support anything Clinton proposes but I do agree his nose looks like a penis. I can’t imagine what his penis looks like!

Response:

I wouldn’t support anything Clinton proposes but I do agree his nose looks like a penis. I can’t imagine what his penis looks like!

So this explains why you support Dole: you want a President who lacks any sign of a working penis. Steve

Response:

The second ammendment has absolutelyNOTHING to do with hunting and/or sporting arms. It has everything to do with the right of the people to self protection, whether from the local burgler or the an overactive government that has lost its contact with the people. A flock of killer ducks was not what the framers had in mind.   Does anyone really think that the excise money is 100% apropriated back to sporting causes? If there is even ONE person who believes that I can get you a hot deal on a bridge…..  As an example look up the figures on aircraft use taxes, gasoline road taxes and I am quite sure a list of examples ad nauseum.   Mr Gherke was perhaps a bit vehement in his rhetoric but his facts have been well documented and I for one agree with his message if not exactly his tone. This is turning into a society of citizens who want to ‘feel’ good. Damn the facts and full speed ahead on the good ship lollipop. Sometimes the facts are unpleasant or painful. Bubbas reputation is one of a terrible joke among the international community. Hi duck hunting episode last year made me gag.   IMHO Gherkes right, an opinion shared by most people who make,repair,sell,build or in short DO something to earn a living. Go ahead FEEL good and send the country down a payh that will lead to a place where everyone is a victim and no one can afford to make a living.   I use his products because they are the best available and will happily continue to purchase same!    Election by sound bite!!! Arrrrgh!!! A.J.Thramer

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : ——DEFEAT THE DOPE SMOKING, DRAFT DODGING, GUN HATING, COCAIN : SNIFFING, MENA VISITOR (Fly In Site for his Coke Habit In Oklahoma) TWO Well, I’m not certain how this fits into the discussion on the taxation of outdoor equipment Those with short memories and/or brain damage (Mr. Gehrke, perhaps?) sould be reminded that all hunting and fishing gear sold in the US has, for years, been subject to special excise taxes (generally referred to as "Pitman-Robertson" and "Dingell-Johnson", after the legislative sponsors). These taxes have been a notable success, mainly because they are "earmarked" for specific purposes, and don’t go into general revenue. Thus, a proposal for extending the base for these taxes *should* be discussed rationally, not by referring to ‘two-faced lying whore hoppers’. As for "draft dodging", Mr. Gehrke is just out of touch. The Vietnam era was indeed controversial. Those of draft age at that time could fall into four basic categories: 1. agreed with the war, and went – gotta respect these guys 2. harboured major doubts that the war was right, but went anyway – can appreciate the dilemma that these guys faced, gotta respect them too 3. believed the war was wrong, and didn’t go – obviously a group Mr. Gehrke despises, but making a decision of that nature involved significant personal sacrifice for many (living just 6 miles north of the US border, I know how many of my neighbours are US expats) 4. believed that the war was a great thing, provided someone else went; "preserve my ass, but ship out the farm boys and ghetto rats" ; these pond scum include Dan Quayle (whose daddy bought him a postion in the Guard) and Rush Limbaugh (whose family hired a specialist to come up with a medical problem that the army doc couldn’t find); no way anyone should respect these turds I’d respect Mr. Gehrke’s disgust with the folks in group 3 if I didn’t suspect he was kissing the asses of the sleazeballs in group 4. : VOTE DOLE IF YOU WANT TO SAVE YOUR GUNS AND YOUR HERITAGE. Of course, in the event that the Republicans are too successful (i.e. Dole in the White House, with the Newtzies still running the House), the question becomes academic – yes, you’ll be able to own as many guns as you want, but there will be nothing to hunt (and nowhere to go to hunt). And, if the water’s unsafe to drink, there ain’t gonna be a lot of fishing around either. This isn’t a Democrat/ Republican issue (respect a lot of folks on both sides) or a liberal/conservative issue (as above), but a *sane/insane* issue. Now, I guess the next major question is : I’ve read more posts from Mr. Gehrke than I really want to, given that his style (rabid) and his orientation (screw the environment, I wanna go fishing) are so extreme. Why does Mr. Gehrke, who owes his livelihood to the existence of a healthy environment, take such anti-environmental stands? BTW, my fly vest contains about a half-bottle each of "Gink" and "Xink". They’ll be the last I’ll buy. Anyone else want to join this boycott? 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341   My, My, How mean-spirted we are today, hows the clear cutting going in B.C. ? Did the republicans get into Canada also ?   Just asking..   Harry

I think the original post by Mr. Gehrke was much more "mean spirited" than Tom’s, and at least Tom took some time to flesh out his thoughts instead of posting the all-caps, right-wing bumper sticker that George threw out. Just because you disagree with Tom’s reply, Harry, doesn’t make his message "mean spirited". Still, I’m very glad that Mr. Gehrke came out and stated his political beliefs so bluntly so that those like myself who flatly disagree can now avoid his products. Spinolio

Response:

Henk Verhaar writes:

I don’t think this is entertaining at all. Out of curiosity I sometimes wander into rec.outdoors.fishing.fly (which I abandoned way before there even was a rec.outdoors.fishing.fly, just rec.outdoors.fishing), and time and again fall right into a similar raving, name-calling, rabid flamefest. Enough to make me realize why I switched r.o.f.f. for the And George Gehrke might have balls the size of church bells, but he certainly has a brain the size of the brain of our beloved quarry — or as we more commonly say: the size of a pea. And I will buy no more of his products and will actively pursue that more Europeans act likewise… the size of a pea…don’t really correspond to flaming anyone you……really we don’t

Response:

I wouldn’t support anything Clinton proposes but I do agree his nose looks like a penis. I can’t imagine what his penis looks like! So this explains why you support Dole: you want a President who lacks any sign of a working penis. Steve

   Or law suits associated with the unbridled use of said unit. Where is  L  Bobbit  when you need her !   Harry  " If this is the Bridge to the 21st Century, I hope to God  Kennedy is not driving "

Response:

I wouldn’t support anything Clinton proposes but I do agree his nose looks like a penis. I can’t imagine what his penis looks like! So this explains why you support Dole: you want a President who lacks any sign of a working penis.

they’re both lying. TimW

Response:

Actually the final Senate count was all 50 Republican senators, because after the Ted Williams’ "Dirty Dozen"  article in Fly Rod and Reel went to press, the one Democrat, Sen. Shelby,  showed his true unenvironmental colors and switched to the Republican party. Should we read anything into this? Should this voting record be a factor in how we vote on election day? For me, it will be a major factor.

Response:

[massive snip] I really think I’m wasting my time here. Color me gone.

[snip again] I’ve about had enough of this net business anyhow.  My time is better used elsewhere. Color me gone. George Gehrke/Mr. Gink

Yikes! I think we’ve just witnessed a self proclaimed "Professional Sportsman" go completely postal on the internet… That was the all time worst display of "professionalism" I’ve read in a long while, completely devoid of "sportsmanship". It was, in fact, simply a rant. Confronted with simple truth, he blew his brains out into the ether (not a pretty sight at all)… George, if you’re still out there, switch to decaf, stop sniffing the Gink, turn off the Rush Limbo show, and get a grip…There’s room for you here… Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.     Alpha Server Engineering < < Parker Street Campus            Maynard, Massachusetts < <      Charter Member of "Curmudgeons Unlimited"       < <<<<<<<<<<<< AMA 548313 <<<<<<<<<<< Disclaimer: Opinions expressed herein may not be shared by             my employer, etc…

Response:

I wasn’t aware that the rabid and absurd Mr. Gherke in this group was the same who makes fly floatant.  If this is true (and I’d like confirmation of same), then I second the boycott motion.  This guy is hell-bent on destroying our resources for his own gain; something I don’t want to support.  Instead, I’ll use the environmentally friendly products made by Loon.

Response:

: ——DEFEAT THE DOPE SMOKING, DRAFT DODGING, GUN HATING, COCAIN : SNIFFING, MENA VISITOR (Fly In Site for his Coke Habit In Oklahoma) TWO Mr. Gherke: I read with dismay your response to our neighbor from the North.  My disappointment is not with your political views; you are entitled to express those as you wish.  Rather, I take issue with the discourteous and disrespectful way in which you have attacked the President of the United States in this international forum.  You behavior undermines the integrity and honor of our nation.  I shudder to think that the international community regards behavior such as yours as the norm for all Americans. Recently in the fly tying newgroup, you wrote about loyalty to U.S. manufacturers and their products.  You stated, "If Americans will not support Americans, then who will?"  Your conduct in this forum reveals your hypocricy.  No matter what you think of his policies or performance in office, you owe it to your nation and your fellow citizens to accord President Clinton the respect he and his office deserve.  If you dislike his policies or personal conduct, I urge you to exercise your right to vote against him and campaign for his political opponent in a constructive way. But personal attacks that disparage not just the man but the office have no place in civilized political discourse. I do not mean to imply that those who hold views similar to yours have a monopoly on discourtesy.  The legions who attacked President Nixon during his tenure were guilty of the same lack of honor.  More recently, arch-conservatives such as Rush Limbaugh and Bob Grant have helped institutionalize disrespect.  It is not an issue of politics, it is a matter of manners, pure and simple.  Hysterical and personal invective, whether liberal or conservative, sways no one’s opinion.  It simply tells others that Americans are a bunch of boors.  To say nothing of what we are teaching our children! Indeed, I believe that Americans have become fed up with negativism and discourtesy in the political process.  IMO, the best messages to come from the presidential debate held last night in Hartford were the expressions of professional respect and personal amity that each candidate holds for the other.  If you respect Mr. Dole, your chosen candidate, at all, then I suggest you follow his example of courteous and honorable conduct. I also urge you to retract your statements and apologize for the poor behavior you have exhibited in front of thousands of people.  While you are entitled to your policitcal views, you are not entitled to disparage America at the same time that you ask for the loyalty of Americans.  It is for this reason that I intend to join the boycott of your products. Respectfully, Michael Zuch

Response:

Tom, Good post! I won’t buy any Gink or Xink either. An interesting article appeared in the April 1996 issue of Fly Rod & Reel entitled "Out of Touch" by Ted Williams. Information in the article was collated by the National Wildlife Foundation. The article makes for interesting reading, but a portion lists the "dirty dozens" …."those listed are the dirtiest of the dirty; to make this compliation, they had to enter an anti-enviornmental vote on at least five of six occasions."(page 40) The Senate list had 49 Republicans and 1 Democrat. The House had 176 republicans and 13 Democrats. Mr.Dole made the list with five out of a possible of six anti-enviornmental votes. Norm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tom, Good post! I won’t buy any Gink or Xink either. An interesting article appeared in the April 1996 issue of Fly Rod & Reel entitled "Out of Touch" by Ted Williams. Information in the article was collated by the National Wildlife Foundation. The article makes for interesting reading, but a portion lists the "dirty dozens" …."those listed are the dirtiest of the dirty; to make this compliation, they had to enter an anti-enviornmental vote on at least five of six occasions."(page 40) The Senate list had 49 Republicans and 1 Democrat. The House had 176 republicans and 13 Democrats. Mr.Dole made the list with five out of a possible of six anti-enviornmental votes. Norm

  As Spinolio has rightly pointed out, the tone of George’s post was none too sweet. I am not condoning how he stated his feelings.  I also think he passed the point of "good taste".   What I do find amusing is the flight by some, on angelic wings, too some self-ordanined "higher ground". It is patently bullfeathers. Your above quoted article was printed on paper from trees, yes folks, trees that most likely where the result of clear cutting, are we all going to cancel our subscription ??  .  Mr Williams myopic views are well known and his cutting down of trees to get them printed is no less " anti-enviromental" than the people he  harpoons editorially.  How much tool oil went down some river to get your reels made?  Did your return the reel ?  How many Dams provide power so you can run your computer ? Do you shut your power off in protest?  The hypocrisy is knee deep here     The very idea that this "Holy" sport is a "non-impact", environmentally PC way of entertainment, is absolute crap on the face of it, and if you think that by partaking in this "hobby" you are somehow an environmentalist, you had better look again.  It is a blood sport that requires one to use, yes use , natural resources to partake. This is a contact sport folks, we impact the river, lake, creek environs  hard and to think we do not is teaching what to our children ?.    I don’t mean to point toward you per say Norm , it is just that there is an aroma about this that makes me gag. George is not the only one who may want to apologize "internationally", what ever that means.   It’s Monday…   Harry

Response:

Fact is Mr. Clinton has been in office for 4 years and some very tough gun regulating laws have been passed…as far as I know no sportsman has had his or her hunting rifle confiscated….second fact…there is no question which Presidential candidate will better protect our natural resources…third fact, the Vietnam war was nothing like WW1 or WW2…to use that war as a litimus test of ones patriotism is absurd…55,000 American men and women died to satisfy the hard ons of politicians and big business…fourth fact..Mr Gehreke is intitled to think what he wants of Bill Clinton, but he should check into the reality a bit more before openning his mouth.  Thanks for your time and bandwidth.

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Snip, snip, snip, snip, snip… I gotta say that I find this ad-hominem, mouth-foaming, pissing-contest sort of post really nauseating on this newsgroup, which I thought was for people who enjoy the __peace and quiet__ that goes along with fly-fishing. Sure, let’s fight for what we hold dear; but calling people filthy names just because they wrote out a carefully considered opinion that doesn’t agree with you, is offputting and embarrassing to see in a newsgroup like this. Just my $.02 CDN. — K.G. (Kat) Cruickshank, ichthyophile. Toronto, Ontario, Canada. see my illustrations at http://www.mackerel.com/fish/home.html

Response:

: ——DEFEAT THE DOPE SMOKING, DRAFT DODGING, GUN HATING, COCAIN : SNIFFING, MENA VISITOR (Fly In Site for his Coke Habit In Oklahoma) TWO Well, I’m not certain how this fits into the discussion on the taxation of outdoor equipment Those with short memories and/or brain damage (Mr. Gehrke, perhaps?) sould be reminded that all hunting and fishing gear sold in the US has, for years, been subject to special excise taxes (generally referred to as "Pitman-Robertson" and "Dingell-Johnson", after the legislative sponsors). These taxes have been a notable success, mainly because they are "earmarked" for specific purposes, and don’t go into general revenue. Thus, a proposal for extending the base for these taxes *should* be discussed rationally, not by referring to ‘two-faced lying whore hoppers’. As for "draft dodging", Mr. Gehrke is just out of touch. The Vietnam era was indeed controversial. Those of draft age at that time could fall into four basic categories: 1. agreed with the war, and went – gotta respect these guys 2. harboured major doubts that the war was right, but went anyway – can appreciate the dilemma that these guys faced, gotta respect them too 3. believed the war was wrong, and didn’t go – obviously a group Mr. Gehrke despises, but making a decision of that nature involved significant personal sacrifice for many (living just 6 miles north of the US border, I know how many of my neighbours are US expats) 4. believed that the war was a great thing, provided someone else went; "preserve my ass, but ship out the farm boys and ghetto rats" ; these pond scum include Dan Quayle (whose daddy bought him a postion in the Guard) and Rush Limbaugh (whose family hired a specialist to come up with a medical problem that the army doc couldn’t find); no way anyone should respect these turds I’d respect Mr. Gehrke’s disgust with the folks in group 3 if I didn’t suspect he was kissing the asses of the sleazeballs in group 4. : VOTE DOLE IF YOU WANT TO SAVE YOUR GUNS AND YOUR HERITAGE. Of course, in the event that the Republicans are too successful (i.e. Dole in the White House, with the Newtzies still running the House), the question becomes academic – yes, you’ll be able to own as many guns as you want, but there will be nothing to hunt (and nowhere to go to hunt). And, if the water’s unsafe to drink, there ain’t gonna be a lot of fishing around either. This isn’t a Democrat/ Republican issue (respect a lot of folks on both sides) or a liberal/conservative issue (as above), but a *sane/insane* issue. Now, I guess the next major question is : I’ve read more posts from Mr. Gehrke than I really want to, given that his style (rabid) and his orientation (screw the environment, I wanna go fishing) are so extreme. Why does Mr. Gehrke, who owes his livelihood to the existence of a healthy environment, take such anti-environmental stands? BTW, my fly vest contains about a half-bottle each of "Gink" and "Xink". They’ll be the last I’ll buy. Anyone else want to join this boycott? 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : ——DEFEAT THE DOPE SMOKING, DRAFT DODGING, GUN HATING, COCAIN : SNIFFING, MENA VISITOR (Fly In Site for his Coke Habit In Oklahoma) TWO Well, I’m not certain how this fits into the discussion on the taxation of outdoor equipment Those with short memories and/or brain damage (Mr. Gehrke, perhaps?) sould be reminded that all hunting and fishing gear sold in the US has, for years, been subject to special excise taxes (generally referred to as "Pitman-Robertson" and "Dingell-Johnson", after the legislative sponsors). These taxes have been a notable success, mainly because they are "earmarked" for specific purposes, and don’t go into general revenue. Thus, a proposal for extending the base for these taxes *should* be discussed rationally, not by referring to ‘two-faced lying whore hoppers’. As for "draft dodging", Mr. Gehrke is just out of touch. The Vietnam era was indeed controversial. Those of draft age at that time could fall into four basic categories: 1. agreed with the war, and went – gotta respect these guys 2. harboured major doubts that the war was right, but went anyway – can appreciate the dilemma that these guys faced, gotta respect them too 3. believed the war was wrong, and didn’t go – obviously a group Mr. Gehrke despises, but making a decision of that nature involved significant personal sacrifice for many (living just 6 miles north of the US border, I know how many of my neighbours are US expats) 4. believed that the war was a great thing, provided someone else went; "preserve my ass, but ship out the farm boys and ghetto rats" ; these pond scum include Dan Quayle (whose daddy bought him a postion in the Guard) and Rush Limbaugh (whose family hired a specialist to come up with a medical problem that the army doc couldn’t find); no way anyone should respect these turds I’d respect Mr. Gehrke’s disgust with the folks in group 3 if I didn’t suspect he was kissing the asses of the sleazeballs in group 4. : VOTE DOLE IF YOU WANT TO SAVE YOUR GUNS AND YOUR HERITAGE. Of course, in the event that the Republicans are too successful (i.e. Dole in the White House, with the Newtzies still running the House), the question becomes academic – yes, you’ll be able to own as many guns as you want, but there will be nothing to hunt (and nowhere to go to hunt). And, if the water’s unsafe to drink, there ain’t gonna be a lot of fishing around either. This isn’t a Democrat/ Republican issue (respect a lot of folks on both sides) or a liberal/conservative issue (as above), but a *sane/insane* issue. Now, I guess the next major question is : I’ve read more posts from Mr. Gehrke than I really want to, given that his style (rabid) and his orientation (screw the environment, I wanna go fishing) are so extreme. Why does Mr. Gehrke, who owes his livelihood to the existence of a healthy environment, take such anti-environmental stands? BTW, my fly vest contains about a half-bottle each of "Gink" and "Xink". They’ll be the last I’ll buy. Anyone else want to join this boycott? 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341

  My, My, How mean-spirted we are today, hows the clear cutting going in B.C. ? Did the republicans get into Canada also ?   Just asking..   Harry

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : ——DEFEAT THE DOPE SMOKING, DRAFT DODGING, GUN HATING, COCAIN : SNIFFING, MENA VISITOR (Fly In Site for his Coke Habit In Oklahoma) TWO Well, I’m not certain how this fits into the discussion on the taxation of outdoor equipment Those with short memories and/or brain damage (Mr. Gehrke, perhaps?) sould be reminded that all hunting and fishing gear sold in the US has, for years, been subject to special excise taxes (generally referred to as "Pitman-Robertson" and "Dingell-Johnson", after the legislative sponsors). These taxes have been a notable success, mainly because they are "earmarked" for specific purposes, and don’t go into general revenue. Thus, a proposal for extending the base for these taxes *should* be discussed rationally, not by referring to ‘two-faced lying whore hoppers’. As for "draft dodging", Mr. Gehrke is just out of touch. The Vietnam era was indeed controversial. Those of draft age at that time could fall into four basic categories: 1. agreed with the war, and went – gotta respect these guys 2. harboured major doubts that the war was right, but went anyway – can appreciate the dilemma that these guys faced, gotta respect them too 3. believed the war was wrong, and didn’t go – obviously a group Mr. Gehrke despises, but making a decision of that nature involved significant personal sacrifice for many (living just 6 miles north of the US border, I know how many of my neighbours are US expats) 4. believed that the war was a great thing, provided someone else went; "preserve my ass, but ship out the farm boys and ghetto rats" ; these pond scum include Dan Quayle (whose daddy bought him a postion in the Guard) and Rush Limbaugh (whose family hired a specialist to come up with a medical problem that the army doc couldn’t find); no way anyone should respect these turds I’d respect Mr. Gehrke’s disgust with the folks in group 3 if I didn’t suspect he was kissing the asses of the sleazeballs in group 4. : VOTE DOLE IF YOU WANT TO SAVE YOUR GUNS AND YOUR HERITAGE. Of course, in the event that the Republicans are too successful (i.e. Dole in the White House, with the Newtzies still running the House), the question becomes academic – yes, you’ll be able to own as many guns as you want, but there will be nothing to hunt (and nowhere to go to hunt). And, if the water’s unsafe to drink, there ain’t gonna be a lot of fishing around either. This isn’t a Democrat/ Republican issue (respect a lot of folks on both sides) or a liberal/conservative issue (as above), but a *sane/insane* issue. Now, I guess the next major question is : I’ve read more posts from Mr. Gehrke than I really want to, given that his style (rabid) and his orientation (screw the environment, I wanna go fishing) are so extreme. Why does Mr. Gehrke, who owes his livelihood to the existence of a healthy environment, take such anti-environmental stands? BTW, my fly vest contains about a half-bottle each of "Gink" and "Xink". They’ll be the last I’ll buy. Anyone else want to join this boycott? 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341

It is evident that a Canadian, who may have harbored the idea of draft dodgers isn’t anyone I care to do business with anyways. That a Canadian has the reasons to justify why Americans should be draft dodgers, such as Slick Willie Clinton as opposed to the WWII Combat Soldier that is now running against  him, Bob Dole, I regard as a vacilating mind that is concerned about his own best interests and not that of his neighbors who were willing to die for his views, as wrong as they are. So, if you want to start a boycott, be my guest.  But don’t go around saying that I’m against good environmental stands and taxing, taxing, taxing is NOT the solution.  Not being responsible in defending the general public AGAINST POLITICAL TAXING IDEAS SUCH AS YOURS, would be criminal.  Not fighting the U.S. Forest Service with their sick plans to destroy our last remaining National Virgin Forests, is pure laziness and apathy.  My passion is against people who hold opposite points of view to these premises.  My record regarding my life long fight to uphold and prevent the special interests from destroying what remains for our childrens tomorrows is well documented.  I take special offense to your stupid, shallow, and outright filthy lies and acquisations to the contrary.  It is my company and my dollars and my staff and our persistant efforts over decades of work that have fought the good fight. Where the hell do you get off telling everybody that I have anti-environmental stands?  I spend thousands of dollars of Gink money every years supporting Trout Clubs, Many Chapers of T.U. the Federation of Fly Fishermen, Political candiates who care about your outdoor inventories . . . and because I don’t want the slick politicians taxing bikers, camping gear . . . you assume the worse?  You’re a very ill-informed, close-minded, selfish sonofabitch! In a lifetime of blood, sweat and tears, of writing letters, of digging in and putting my money where my mouth is, where were you in America? I’ll tell you where.  No where!  Never, in tens of thousands of dollars of donations to preserving, protecting and defending the enviornment has anyone . . . ANYONE . . . ever even said, "thank you". Well, I don’t want anyone’s thanks.  I haven’t given my entire life to the great American Outdoors to solicite anyones ‘thanks’.  I don’t need it.  Don’t want it. But you sir.  Are a pompous, ignorant person who knows NOTHING of what he is talking about. So, had you not snipped or had the full benefit of the entire thread of where our original distain for Slick Willie Clinton had started, you would have realized the justification for calling this liar of a President down for what he is.  Dishonest, unhonorable, and a yuppie who has not served this country, who is now a President that has not stopped the clear cutting timber barons, nor the dam builders, nor any of the rape that continues in outdoor America by special interests, even as I speak and you listen. I really think I’m wasting my time here. Color me gone. Do with my products what you want.  They still are the world’s best that you can buy.  If you want to go second class, that is your choice.  We have always appreciated our supporters business.  But if you think you can black-mail me . . . think again. At least you didn’t do business with a compromiser.  They will say anything to fall in line with such as yourself. I won’t. Tight lines always in the fond memories my products have given you. That, to me is the main satisfaction I’ve had on your life.  I’ve given you the best that is in me.  You can never that away.  Its too late. You want to take prisoners.  I don’t want any. I’ve about had enough of this net business anyhow.  My time is better used elsewhere. Color me gone. George Gehrke/Mr. Gink

Response:

Question:

I’ll have a chance to do some fly fishing around Bushkill Falls, PA and on the Delaware River between Port Jervis and Barryville, NY. late May. Any suggestions on what to bring for gear and flies? Where are the public access points? What kind of trout will there be? Is it worth even going to these places? Thanks, Bob

Both rivers are definately worth visiting, but they are quite different.   The Big Bushkill is a relatively small stream that contains primarily stocked trout.  A good access point is the Boy Scout camp near the falls.  Bring a variety of early season mayflies, though the Hendricksons will probably be done.  Try Blue Quills, sulphurs, etc. The Delaware, on the other hand, is a very large river with a good wild trout population.  The area below Port Jervis offers trout and bass, depending on the water temps.  You may also catch the shad run.  For a hatch chart, call Al Caucci at (717) 629-2962.

Response:

Are you part of the group from N.C, friends of Kevin McLane from WestGrove?  If so I’m looking forward to getting together again.  We are going to visit the Pine creek and past of Potter Co. as well.

Response:

Last year on the Big Bushkill  (2d week in May)  one evening I was standing in a pool with about 5 other anglers fishing to trout rising all around us.  I tyed on a cream colored # 24 dry and was cathin the hell out of them when noone else was landing a thing.  May have been a fluke, but you can bet I’ll be well stocked with 24’s this May.

Response:

I’ll have a chance to do some fly fishing around Bushkill Falls, PA and on the Delaware River between Port Jervis and Barryville, NY. late May. Any suggestions on what to bring for gear and flies? Where are the public access points? What kind of trout will there be? Is it worth even going to these places? Thanks, Bob

Response:

Question:

Micek) writes: Vancouver Island fishing is beginning to approach a time of great hope, but will it be like so many other dreams?  Fishing for the Pinks in the Oyster has been disappointing to date.  Does anyone have any good stories to tell?

I wish I had a good story to tell.  This is a "me too" post.  I’ll be on a floating lodge called North Pacific Springs for the Labor Day weekend.  It’s on the inner passage.  I’d like to hear some good stories and suggestions as well. I know my destination is not a flyfishing operation.  They generally troll bait on downriggers for salmon, and jig for halibut.  However, the guides seem willing to humor me.  I’ll spend some time boating from the lodge, and I’ll also do a float plane fly out (tentatively to Kaipit Lake). Any stories or suggestions on how to make the most out of the flyfishing (flies, techniques, locations, etc.) are greatly appreciated. -Chuck

Response:

Vancouver Island fishing is beginning to approach a time of great hope, but will it be like so many other dreams?  Fishing for the Pinks in the Oyster has been disappointing to date.  Does anyone have any good stories to tell?

Response:

Question:

Does anyone know where I can get a hold of a hatch matcher chart?? Iam just starting out flyfishing and I need all the  help I can get. None of the fly shops in my area carry them. I would appreciate any advice on where to get a hold of one. RON

Response:

: Does anyone know where I can get a hold of a hatch matcher chart?? : Iam just starting out flyfishing and I need all : the  help I can get. None of the fly shops in my area carry them. I would : appreciate any advice on where to get a hold of one. : RON A good book for beginners is Dick Pobst’s guide to insects. It is an Orvis streamside guide.

Response:

PLEASE DO NOT PUMP THE STOMACHS OF THE FISH…  This causes them to adjust their eating habits for several days and can harm the fish permanately.

Yep, leads ‘em down the wayward path to anorexia/bolemia. If you think whirling disease is a problem, let me tell you, once the fish get into a binge and purge cycle, you’ve got a bigger problem.  How you gonna provide psychotherapy to all them fish?  The costs would be astronomical! — -Wayne Trzyna

Response:

Does anyone know where I can get a hold of a hatch matcher chart?? Iam just starting out flyfishing and I need all the  help I can get. None of the fly shops in my area carry them. I would appreciate any advice on where to get a hold of one. RON

 There are a couple of good books out on the market to match the  Hatch with.  Almost any major bookstore can get a copy of the  "Hatch Bible" called MATCHING THE HATCH.  It is a good book but the best  way to match the hatch is by seining the water.  PLEASE DO NOT PUMP THE  STOMACHS OF THE FISH…  This causes them to adjust their eating habits  for several days and can harm the fish permanately.  Since there are so many new anglers out there we need to preserve what we got.

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