Question:

Woolly Buggers. Weighted, fished slow and deep… /daytripper – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What is the recommended Fly for the Winter Months in the Northeast for Brown Trout?

Response:

I like to use a bead head green cadis larvae in PA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the recommended Fly for the Winter Months in the Northeast for Brown Trout?

Response:

What is the recommended Fly for the Winter Months in the Northeast for Brown Trout?

Response:

There are many different patterns that are used for Browns in the Northeast.  One that I really like is the Glo-bug.  There are many Creeks that have spawnig fish such as Steelhead during the winter months.  A Glo-bug is always a good bet for winter fishing. Good Luck, Forrest Forrest http://www.FlyFishingREVIEW.com FlyFishingREVIEW.com Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

 East of Aspen, there

Question:

Dear Friends, I will be in western Quebec near La Verendrey (sp?) Park north of Maniwaki in mid July.  I would love to read your suggestions for flies for smallmouth, brook trout, pike.  Any information will be well received. Thanks so much. Sandford

Response:

I will be in western Quebec near La Verendrey (sp?) Park north of Maniwaki in mid July.  I would love to read your suggestions for flies for smallmouth, brook trout, pike.  Any information will be well received.

Most fishing up there seems to be done from boats with bait or hard lures rather than with flies or afoot. Bass and brookies are seldom selective. For bass, all you need is 3 types: — dry fly or popper, — darkish streamer e.g. Muddler Minnow, — bright streamer e.g. Mickey Finn. In smaller sizes, brookies also take MM and MF avidly.  Brookies seem unselective about dry flies, but it would be prudent to carry a variety of sizes, say 10 to 20, including good floaters and high-visibility flies for rough water (preferred by brookies.) — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Question:

Hi Dan – Glad to se you are on-line again. Missed you while you were out – but I went to ASU ! bob

Hey Bob, Sorry, didn’t mean it as a slam against ASU.  I was making fun of his "gotta get some weapons" post to the fly fishing newsgroup.  I just happened to know that Arizona State is in that area because my daughter lived in Mesa for a while.  I figured this guy was a student there and wondered if his parents knew what he was doing – possibly with the school money.  Didn’t mean anything by it  8^                                                Oops!                                                   Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

Response:

Hi Dan – Glad to se you are on-line again. Missed you while you were out – but I went to ASU ! bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Allan Gay) writes:     I live in Arizona and I am looking into purchasing a crossbow just to shoot for fun and possibly at pigs during the handgun season.  If you have a used crossbow that you want to sell respond to me personally with a description of what crossbow you have and how much you are willing to sell it for.  I live in mesa, I am ready to buy right now, don’t waste time e-mailing me, I want to start shooting as soon as possible,  I pay in cash. with a description and whatever price you want for it.   I will get back to all of you.  I am serious, I am ready to pay cash right now for a recurve or crossbow or if you have both.  E-mail me right now for jims, any other cool toys you might have.  I do not personally want the slim jim but i have a friend who will pay for one and any books on how to use them.  e-mail me with any info on anything you want to sell, you might be surprised at what i will buy!!!!! You betcha!! we got ‘em.  Use ‘em mostly over here to shoot carp and squawfish.  Have a special today on the whitefish model though only for resident Montanans and Oregonians. YOu must be going to Arizona State right?  Does your mother know you are doing these things?????                                       8^                                            Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

– Dr. Robert K. Sato Catalytica Inc. 430 Ferguson Drive Mountain View, CA  94043   USA Voice:  (415)940-6375 Fax:    (415)960-0127

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(Allan Gay) writes:     I live in Arizona and I am looking into purchasing a crossbow just to shoot for fun and possibly at pigs during the handgun season.  If you have a used crossbow that you want to sell respond to me personally with a description of what crossbow you have and how much you are willing to sell it for.  I live in mesa, I am ready to buy right now, don’t waste time e-mailing me, I want to start shooting as soon as possible,  I pay in cash. with a description and whatever price you want for it.   I will get back to all of you.  I am serious, I am ready to pay cash right now for a recurve or crossbow or if you have both.  E-mail me right now for jims, any other cool toys you might have.  I do not personally want the slim jim but i have a friend who will pay for one and any books on how to use them.  e-mail me with any info on anything you want to sell, you might be surprised at what i will buy!!!!!

You betcha!! we got ‘em.  Use ‘em mostly over here to shoot carp and squawfish.  Have a special today on the whitefish model though only for resident Montanans and Oregonians. YOu must be going to Arizona State right?  Does your mother know you are doing these things?????                                       8^                                            Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

Response:

     I live in Arizona and I am looking into purchasing a crossbow just to shoot for fun and possibly at pigs during the handgun season.  If you have a used crossbow that you want to sell respond to me personally with a description of what crossbow you have and how much you are willing to sell it for.  I live in mesa, I am ready to buy right now, don’t waste time e-mailing me, I want to start shooting as soon as possible,  I pay in cash. with a description and whatever price you want for it.   I will get back to all of you.  I am serious, I am ready to pay cash right now for a recurve or crossbow or if you have both.  E-mail me right now for  any other cool toys you might have.  I do not personally want the slim jim but i have a friend who will pay for one and any books on how to use them.  e-mail me with any info on anything you want to sell, you might be surprised at what i will buy!!!!!

Response:

Question:

Howdy everyone!  I am in the planning stages of a trip to South-West Alaska.  I have this brochure from Alaska Fish and Game that tells of the fishing conditions on Prince of Wales Island.  From the description I read it sounds like a cross between the Henry’s Fork and New Zealand, ie pristine streams packed with rainbows and grayling.  Then I talked to my friend who was there two years ago and he said Prince of Wales Island is a clear-cut eyesore with only small trout.  What gives?  Can anyone confirm or deny this situation? -John —      Its not that flyfishing is everything, it is just that everything      else in my life is less important.                                                      -Moi

Response:

Howdy everyone!  I am in the planning stages of a trip to South-West Alaska.  I have this brochure from Alaska Fish and Game that tells of the fishing conditions on Prince of Wales Island.  From the description I read it sounds like a cross between the Henry’s Fork and New Zealand, ie pristine streams packed with rainbows and grayling.  Then I talked to my friend who was there two years ago and he said Prince of Wales Island is a clear-cut eyesore with only small trout.  What gives?  Can anyone confirm or deny this situation? -John —     Its not that flyfishing is everything, it is just that everything     else in my life is less important.                                                     -Moi

It depends on where you are.  It is possible to be a quarter mile from a clear-cut area and think you are in a pristine forest.  The only way to get a good look at these ugly scars is from the air.  The lumber industry keeps telling everyone that they can harvest at a renewable sustained yield.  Then they come to Alaska and chop down old growth forests with Uncle Sam underwriting the cost.  The main players are Japanese firms that turn the trees into pulp, I guess they use it for VCR instruction books. BTW if you go to southwest Alaska you’ll be about 1,000 miles from POW Island. R. Wood in Alaska

Response:

Question:

Hello to fly-fishers here in the southeast — here’s a few things I felt worth posting: 1.  Davidson River pseudo – report.  Fished this fine river Saturday and Sunday (9/23 – 24).  Caught one small brown…most other people I talked to had the same kind of luck – a few had great luck ( I suspect their techniques were just much better – pattern didn’t seem to have much to do with it).  Anyways, fish were rising to small ( #20 – #22 ) blond midges, and subsurface takes were mainly on woolies / streamer type flies.  I didn’t talk to anyone personally who scored big, but heard of one gentleman go to town with some sort of a heavily weighted (split shot on the leader), small serendipity variation.  Still had a great time (aside from sleeping in the rain.) 2. Question #1:  Does anyone know the potential adverse affects of tying with lead?  I’ve been tying a lot of lead weighted flies and am not completely comfortable with the lead residue I end up with on my fingertips.  Can lead be absorbed through the skin?  If so, has anyone had success with particular brands of lead substitute? 3.  Question #2:  Fly line dressing.  I’ve never messed with it before, I guess because I’ve always fished with #5 line or heavier.  Got a new #4, and noticed that the line didn’t want to pick up off the water as easily.  I think some sort of dressing might be the cure for my ailments – I was planning on just using scotchguard, but don’t want to screw up the line.  Any suggestions from out there? One of the most encouraging things I see on the web is posts from those of us who fish the NC / Tenn / SC / North. GA. waters.  I think it would be great to set up a small forum of localized discussion for everyone’s Tight Lines, Terry

Response:

Eminhizer) writes: Hello to fly-fishers here in the southeast — One of the most encouraging things I see on the web is posts from those of us who fish the NC / Tenn / SC / North. GA. waters.  I think it would be great to set up a small forum of localized discussion for everyone’s Tight Lines, Terry

Terry,  I fish weekends on the Chatooga (near Cashiers), Horsepasture, Whitewater and Tuckaseegee (sp?).  I think a continuing string on NC flyfishing conditions would be great. Everyone from the the area could just post short reports after each excursion. It would be a great resource.  I fished the Horsepasture near Toxaway Sunday (9/24).  Didn’t catch anything of any size. The three and four inch rainbows tore up the flies on almost every drift. I was using a #16 coachman, and then later when a small hatch started, #18 Light Cahill.   Have you fished the "Tuck" in the spring before the "harvest"? I caught the tail end this year and it was tremendous. Mike Ray

Response:

IIt hit the fly which has landed me more fish than any other this season, the venerable #8 Muddler Minnow. Regarding the Tuckaseegee in the spring, I have had very good luck in the spring with big nymphs (Girdle Bugs, Hellgramites, etc.) and, of course, Muddler Minnows.  I’ve never had much dry fly luck there, though.  I’d be interested to know what part you fish.  I usually concentrate on the area around WCU. Haig Rudd

Haig, I usually fish just where the pavement stops (coming from the ice cream store) to the island. If thats crowded, there’s usually noone downstream of the island to the first bridge (the boundary for spring C & R). I’ve had pretty good luck with wooley buggers and stonefly nymphs.  I’ll try muddlers next time. Mike Ray

Response:

I too would like to see a southeast flyfishing forum started.  I just returned from fishing the Davidson, just above and below the hatchery and caught numerous 12-13" rainbows.  This area always seems to hold plenty of trout.  The only difficult area is the quiet waters with sipping trout that are very difficult to catch.  Ive had the most luck with 7x leaders and size 24-26 ants or Griffith gnats.

Response:

Question:

When in doubt, go with the fun stuff. Buy the fishing outfit. Chances are you’ll use it more and longer. Mike T. — WebRunner Running Page — Southeast USA Club & Race Listings 200+ listings. Advertise your race. Club Home Pages. http://www.catalog.com/webrun/running/running.html

Response:

Neither–Get yourself a good set of Golf clubs! Everone has taken up flyfishing, and the courses are almost empty. For exercise, carry your own clubs and jog,that"ll keep that ticker pumpin.There are beautiful courses everywhere,except Idaho.The chemists have destroyed the good grass in that state, with all those potato experiments. This is a joke–Don’t want to piss off any Idaho golfers.

Response:

I have both.  Believe me, I can cast a lot farther with a fly rod.

Response:

My birthday is in a couple of days and I expect to get some money.  I have decided to give due regard to the advice from the good folks at rec.running and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly. Where to spend my money?

Two answers:         When you are older and your lower body is a cantidate for complete skeleton replacement from marathoning your hips, ankles, and knees into mush. You will really appreciate the first-class fly rig. A heart rate monitor will just be junk by then.         Flip a coin. If you dislike the outcome you’ll know you’ve been playing a game with yourself.                 Bob

Response:

I am a novice marathoner who fishes.  I’ve run one marathon this year (Napa Valley) and would like to improve my time for the Portland Marathon by using a heart rate monitor.  I also enjoy fishing.  I have some backpacking fly equipment but I would like to let my elitest-self shine with a real fly fishing outfit. Where to spend my money? Steve, run out and buy yourself a fly fishing outfit… David E. Malone All opinions expressed are my own.

Steve, Its apparant your training is suffering from a lack of obsession. I refer you to Calvin and Hobbes from about two weeks ago.  T Training with a monitor lets you micro  analyze your pperformance with the goal being to satisy such standards as your training log and other people who wear monitors. Also there’s a coolness factor related to who might be impressed by the purchases.  Fish or friends?   I have trained with a monitor for a year.  Has it helped?  Got me. It is a diversion and something to do on those long runs. Steve Rogers When the going gets tough, blah, blah, blah

Response:

[deleted] : My birthday is in a couple of days and I expect to get some money.  I : have decided to give due regard to the advice from the good folks at : rec.running and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly. Neither…buy a pair of Reabok Pumps and go fishing…then, if you fall in, your feet will float up and someone will be able to spot you. Tim Walker

Response:

You ask whether to buy a heart rate monitor or a fly fishing outfit? Definitely the flyfishing outfit.  Enjoying it will lower your heart rate

Just don’t start flyfishing in the midst of the heavy hatches…you may end it all holding your breath for that monster to suck  in YOUR fly instead of the natural inches from it. Steve D.

Response:

I am a novice marathoner who fishes.  I’ve run one marathon this year (Napa Valley) and would like to improve my time for the Portland Marathon by using a heart rate monitor.  I also enjoy fishing.  I have some backpacking fly equipment but I would like to let my elitest-self shine with a real fly fishing outfit. Where to spend my money?

Look to the future and buy the fly rod.  I have a sister and two brothers who ran marathons and they are now virtually crippled (not  really, but they get sore knees).  I have flyfished instead for 25 years and feel as good as ever. Watch your backcast on that elitist stuff. Believe it or not, this can be the cheapest way to fish other than zebco and hand dug bait. I fished for years with a $10 St.croix and $2 reel and flies tied mostly from free knitting samples.   Now that I have some disposable income I do my best to keep a few local fly shops in business, but fancy tackle adds little to the value of the experience of getting a mile or ten away from the crowds and finding some wild trout, then tricking them, admiring their brilliant beauty, then releasing or cooking them. I think the heartrate monitor is just going to cause you excess worry about the fine tuning of your body, but does this really relax you?    What does it add to your life?   How does it relate to your future personna as geezer? If you start flyfishing regularly now, you’ll have a great recreational life that will last as long as you will.  Youngsters will much rather hear your fishing stories than running stories.  By flyfishing you can do your part to honor your elders while preparing youself to become a great one. This youth stuff is just a passing trend; give up holding onto it and go fishing!  You have  little chance of winning any major marathons but a virtual guarantee of mastering our fine sport, since you have email. You can get that same sense of well-being and accomplishment by hiking half that far and fishing a day or two.  If you really crave that burn, drive over to the east side of the sierra in late July or August this year and hike straight up to 11,000 ft and fish for Goldens. If you still aren’t tired, carry my pack too. Once the runoff settles down this will be a great year here in California. Get the fly rod. mark vinsel Visit my gallery: http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.HTML

Response:

: [deleted] : : My birthday is in a couple of days and I expect to get some money.  I : : have decided to give due regard to the advice from the good folks at : : rec.running and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly. : Neither…buy a pair of Reabok Pumps and go fishing…then, if you : fall in, your feet will float up and someone will be able to spot you. And if the shoes don’t fit, Reebok Pumps make dandy strike indicators. Rick — T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.  

Response:

Get both. Many new runners pack up when they find that it takes discipline and effort to get fit. There are many HRMs lying dormant in people homes unused. I’ve just bought one for 10 pounds second hand. Look in your local paper I’m sure you’ll find one. Simon — Simon Walsh    

Response:

: Wierd title?  So is my dilemma: : I am a novice marathoner who fishes.  I’ve run one marathon this year : (Napa Valley) and would like to improve my time for the Portland : Marathon by using a heart rate monitor.  I also enjoy fishing.  I have some : backpacking fly equipment but I would like to let my elitest-self shine : with a real fly fishing outfit. : My birthday is in a couple of days and I expect to get some money.  I : have decided to give due regard to the advice from the good folks at : rec.running and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly. : Where to spend my money? : Steve My vote is for the flyfishing gear.  As a bonus I offer you my "cheap" heart rate monitor:   If you’re breathing, its beating.  If you’re not breathing, it’s probably stopped (or will shortly). (sippinElkMountainAmberAleandrootinfortheBarracudainLongBeachCalifornia wheretheearthmovesundermyfeet)

Response:

: Neither–Get yourself a good set of Golf clubs! Everone has taken up : flyfishing, and the courses are almost empty. For exercise, carry your : own clubs and jog,that"ll keep that ticker pumpin.There are beautiful : courses everywhere,except Idaho.The chemists have destroyed the good : grass in that state, with all those potato experiments. : This is a joke–Don’t want to piss off any Idaho golfers. Hey, hey, hey!!!  Whatchit buddy.  This state still has the fighting words law.  That means I can bust you in the chops for saying such things and all the cops will do is make fun of your glass jaw or my right hook! Rick — T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.  

Response:

Wierd title?  So is my dilemma: I am a novice marathoner who fishes.  I’ve run one marathon this year (Napa Valley) and would like to improve my time for the Portland Marathon by using a heart rate monitor.  I also enjoy fishing.  I have some backpacking fly equipment but I would like to let my elitest-self shine with a real fly fishing outfit. My birthday is in a couple of days and I expect to get some money.  I have decided to give due regard to the advice from the good folks at rec.running and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly. Where to spend my money? Steve

Response:

I am a novice marathoner who fishes.  I’ve run one marathon this year (Napa Valley) and would like to improve my time for the Portland Marathon by using a heart rate monitor.  I also enjoy fishing.  I have some backpacking fly equipment but I would like to let my elitest-self shine with a real fly fishing outfit. Where to spend my money?

Steve, run out and buy yourself a fly fishing outfit… David E. Malone All opinions expressed are my own.

Response:

If you often overtrain, get the HRM.  If you need more protein, get the fishing equipment.  Otherwise, you’ll just have to decide for yourself. — Ray Charbonneau    | MIT Library Systems| Everyone is entitled to my opinion.  *Disclaimer? Why?*|

Response:

Buy the fly fishing gear and go have fun.  You’ll be more relaxed for your training and will in turn run farther and faster.  Besides, I’ve not yet met a marathon runner who has trained with a heart rate monitor, so I’m sure you can train hard enough to improve your time without one.   Buy the heart rate monitor next year, and don’t go out too fast in Portland, as the crowds during the first part of the race might make you go faster than you should. Best fishes, Dan

Response:

You ask whether to buy a heart rate monitor or a fly fishing outfit? Definitely the flyfishing outfit.  Enjoying it will lower your heart rate so low you won’t have to worry about a heart rate monitor…..

Response:

Question:

used to fish that in the olden days, back in ‘56 and ‘57.  Good to great fishing then, and nice little brookie fishing in upper stretches.  Most memorable occasion:  in a bar in Frederick a drunk came up to me and informed me in a horrified voice that my hat was full of bugs!  Often think of that – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any opinion’s on Big Hunting Creek in Maryland? I was there today and it was horrible. All of the "locals" didn’t fair much better, no one had more than one. I heard this was supposed to be great. Did I pick a bad day or what? |                                        | |  …and go fast too."                  |     Lehigh University |                    -Edgar Grospiron    |

Response:

  I live about 20 minutes from Big Hunting creek. Have fished it for 35+ years and frankly don’t fish it much anymore.  The folks who want to throw hatchery slugs in there, instead of allowing a decent population of wild brown and brook trout to have the place upset me.  The dam folks do keep a steady if at times extremely sparse flow of water on it.  It seems they are more interested in the lake above then the creek below.  I learned to fly fish there when I was a kid and Fish the pocket water: I like little brown trout clouser  style streamer , to catch very pretty native browns, avoid pools full of rainbow slugs !!!                               Regards   leo

Response:

No Rob, it’s not only you.  I was at Hunting Creek a week ago.  Conditions were favorable (sunny/partly cloudy; 60+degrees) with some BWO coming off.  The fish, although present, showed no interest.  Not a nibble all day. This is about par for many of my trips to Hunting Creek.  The best I’ve done up there is three Rainbow over 12" on a day last summer. Incidentally, Western Maryland is worth the trip! Jack Van Horn

Response:

Hey fellas-  Can I jump in with my 2 cents worth? I enjoy BHC but do agree it could be better. I also learned to float a fly there ’bout 5 years ago. Maybe that’s why I’m fond of the place… I was there Sun Apr 8. There was decent blue quill hatch coming off (#14-16) and the fish were rising til 3 or 4 pm. I caught 6 browns and must have hooked and lost that many more.  My best day was during the fall of 93 when I caught 26 fish one day, all on an inchworm I came up with. Maybe THAT’S why I’m fond of the place… <g.  For a more pure fishing experience try fishing above the lake. Hardly no pressure, ALL wild browns and brooks and a workout climbing the rocks. A McMurry ant always works good for me.  I would be in favor of some put and grow stocking but agree that the rubber rainbows degrade the experience. Even tho’ I did catch a 26" once there. (I had to throw that in, forgive me.)  Thanks for letting me sound off on a stream I love to fish. Jack, do I know you from NCCTU?

Response:

Question:

Recent posts on this and other locations have brought out some of the worst of those in our sport who have senselessly criticised equipment of particular brands and the anglers who use whatever happens to be on the "hit list." Two recent posts from another location provide a nice response, and I repeat them here: #1 Never feel that you have to apologize to anyone for the equipment you use. Most of the howlers are cheapskates who wouldn’t know a good rod if someone beat them over the head with it anyway, and they certainly don’t recognize that a good expensive rod is an investment in a lifetime (with reasonable care) of pleasure on the stream." #2 "If some people don’t like Orvis–so what? Think for yourself and do your own thing.  Owning Orvis products has about as much to do with being a yuppie as owning Scott or Winston.  Besides, who the hell really cares if someone *does* label you or me or Joe Blow a yuppie. Small-minded people need to fixate on simple-minded, non-issues–just look at our gov’mint!" Lyman Hughes                                               Dallas, TX                                               Ennis, MT

Response:

Recent posts on this and other locations have brought out some of the worst of those in our sport who have senselessly criticised equipment of particular brands and the anglers who use whatever happens to be on the "hit list." Two recent posts from another location provide a nice response, and I repeat them here: #1 Never feel that you have to apologize to anyone for the equipment you use. Most of the howlers are cheapskates who wouldn’t know

a good rod if someone beat them over the head with it anyway, and they certainly don’t recognize that a good expensive rod is an investment in a lifetime (with reasonable care) of pleasure on the stream." #2 "If some people don’t like Orvis–so what? Think for yourself and do your own thing.  Owning Orvis products has about as much to do with being a yuppie as owning Scott or Winston.  Besides, who the hell really cares if someone*does* label you or me or Joe Blow a yuppie. Small-minded people

need to fixate on simple-minded, non-issues–just look at our gov’mint!" Bravo! JL 8-Wt Editor

Response:

To me, it does not matter whether you use an Orvis rod or a Diawa, all that really matters is whether you can catch "and release" fish!  Too many people get too esoteric about having the best equipment but why do you have to spend your all your money on equipment because Lefty Kreh has endorsed it?  I have some expensive equipment and I have cheap equipment and to tell you the truth, sometimes I can’t tell the difference. Remember, "A bad day of fishing is still better than a good day at work!" Tight Lines! Mark

Response:

Re: whether you own an Orvis, etc…I’d be willing to bet a day’s pay that those "toy snobs" can’t cast their expensive trinkets worth a damned. And I bet they don’t fish more than 1 or 2 times a year, then only in perfectly calm, clear days.       In my past days as a professional photographer, I would listen to the same B.S. concerning cameras. You know, it’s not What you use, but HOW you use it that counts!    A cheap rod and cheap line fished properly will catch just as  many fish as the expensive stuff. It is technique and presentation that counts. The fish don’t give a damned if they are caught on a Winston or a Sears "special!"

Response:

Most people use the best equipment they can afford, since it is almost always more enjoyable to use than something cheaper.  Why don’t most serious flyfishers by cheap rods and/or lines?  There is a difference, and you know it, so why be so negative? BTW, what kind of rod and line do you use, and what kind of camera did you use professionally? — Jim Benenson                 Los Alamos, New Mexico, USA "The commonplace is only the self-constructed wall that separates us from the marvelous"  Tom Brown, Jr.

Response:

Begin Message—– snipped The fish don’t give a damned if they are caught on a Winston or a Sears "special!" snipped End Message ——- As I look through all of my spring fishing catalogs (Bean, Dan Bailey, Cabelas, Bass Pro, etc.)  I have to ask myself why a bait casting rod made out of IM6 graphite or any other new generation graphites costs 50% less than a fly rod made out of the same material.  I do not believe that the manufacturting processes are that disimilar. Some people might argue something about mandrels and tapers (I always thought that a mandrel was a baboon like primate).  But I really think that the prices are  high for fly rods simply because the market can bear it. BTW, Bass Pro has a good deal on some IM6 rods with a SA 2L reel for $179.00. I priced the reel elsewhere at $125.00. So its like getting an IM6 rod for $54.00.  I bought one last year when the combo sold for $169.00 and the rod is pretty nice casting (minor cosmetic imperfections in the varnishing and wrapping) My $0.02 Daern C. Valentine

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Begin Message—– snipped The fish don’t give a damned if they are caught on a Winston or a Sears "special!" snipped End Message ——- As I look through all of my spring fishing catalogs (Bean, Dan Bailey, Cabelas, Bass Pro, etc.)  I have to ask myself why a bait casting rod made out of IM6 graphite or any other new generation graphites costs 50% less than a fly rod made out of the same material.  I do not believe that the manufacturting processes are that disimilar. Some people might argue something about mandrels and tapers (I always thought that a mandrel was a baboon like primate).  But I really think that the prices are  high for fly rods simply because the market can bear it.

An experienced and honest angler will have to admit that a high-end rod, e.g., Scott, Sage, Winston, etc., just casts and "feels" better than an economy rod, e.g., Cabela’s, St. Croix, etc.  The latter rods can be great bargains, and there is no doubt that an accomplished fisher with a Cortland in hand will do better than a novice casting a T&T.  Clearly, technique is MUCH more important than equipment.  However, once you’ve reached a certain level of casting skill, you appreciate a well-made rod and it makes for a better fishing experience.  In addition, high-end rods just look nicer: There is more attention to design and they are finished better (as you point out, the rod you bought had "minor cosmetic imperfections").  For some people, like myself, this matters; for others, it may be totally irrelevant. There is no doubt that the markup on high-end rods is high.  But you have to consider that the production of many of these rods is extremely labor intensive.  Consider Scott, for example.  Scott matches tip sections to butt sections by hand, testing each butt with a variety of tips until the appropriate and desired  taper and flex pattern is achieved.  This is done for each rod individually. Many high-end rod companies (e.g., Sage) also put a lot of money into R&D trying to figure out what lengths, tapers, diameters, scrims, etc., are appropriate for various types of graphite and various line weights. All that said, it is certainly true that these rod companies know their market and are not shy about pricing their products. Comparing fly rods to spinning rods is unfair.  Don’t think that any two blanks made from IM6 (which, BTW, is second generation graphite and is about 5-6 years old now) are of equivalent quality and should be priced the same.  The quality of a spinning rod is much less important to casting than is the quality of a fly rod, and rod makers know this.  You can get away with many more imperfections in the blank on a spinning rod.  In addition, they are shorter.  Cost goes up nonlinearly with length because it is just a lot harder to make a straight 9 ft. blank that tapers from say, 1 cm to 2 mm, than to make an almost straight 7 ft. blank that tapers from 2 cm (or more on some of Cabela’s rods, e.g.) to 2 mm.  Put it this way:  You could do pretty well spin casting with your reel tied to a broom handle, but unless you are Lefty Kreh, you’d have a hell of a time getting more than a few feet of line out fly casting with such a rig. Finally, I’ll gladly take up "FlyFish887" on his casting bet for a day’s pay:  Just name the time and the place . . . TPM

Response:

writes: Re: whether you own an Orvis, etc…I’d be willing to bet a day’s pay that those "toy snobs" can’t cast their expensive trinkets worth a damned. And I bet they don’t fish more than 1 or 2 times a year, then only in perfectly calm, clear days.  In my past days as a professional photographer, I would listen to the same B.S. concerning cameras. You know, it’s not What you use, but HOW you use it that counts!    A cheap rod and cheap line fished properly will catch just as  many fish as the expensive stuff. It is technique and presentation that counts. The fish don’t give a damned if they are caught on a Winston or a Sears "special!"

I’ll take that bet. What do you consider "worth a damned"?  Distance?   Accuracy? I have a 9ft 7wt I can cast a standard flyline so far the backing is hanging out of the tiptop. Or how about picking up a bass bug at about 45 feet and with one false cast hit within 12 inches of a target at 65 feet. In my present days as a professional photo lab technician I also know that any _professional_ photographer is going to use top of the line equipment because it is dependable, rugged and has quality optics. People use Canons, Nikons, Hasselbads, not Ricoh, Pentax and Mamiya-Sekor.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Comparing fly rods to spinning rods is unfair.  Don’t think that any two blanks made from IM6 (which, BTW, is second generation graphite and is about 5-6 years old now) are of equivalent quality and should be priced the same.  The quality of a spinning rod is much less important to casting than is the quality of a fly rod, and rod makers know this.  You can get away with many more imperfections in the blank on a spinning rod.   This is all very nice but it’s not reflected in reality.  Take a close look   at blank vs finished rod prices in the Loomis catalogs, for instance, and   what comes through is that the majority of the differences in price between   spinning/casting and fly rods is in the rods and not the blanks themselves.     For example, look at several 9′ blanks and what happens to the final price   (these are GLoomis two-piece IMX rods):    Length      "Rating"    Blank price   Finished rod price      9′      6-10 lb line     $207            $330      9′      8-12 lb line     $214            $335      9′        6 weight       $171            $375      9′        7 weight       $182            $380   I think that the original poster was correct: there is a substantial premium   inherent in fly rod prices and it is not clear that there is a materials or   labor cost that warrants it.

These are interesting and useful data, but they cut both ways.  Your argument assumes that the blank prices are accurate reflections of production costs but that the finished rod prices are not.  If we assume that all costs reflect production costs plus a constant percentage markup (constant across rod types), the prices above indicate that spinning rods cost more to make (for a given length) but that fly rods cost more to finish.  If you are willing to question the increment from blank to finished rod for fly rods, why not also question the prices on blanks themselves.  Perhaps the markup is higher for spinning blanks than for fly rod blanks.  The real problem is that no one outside the company really knows what the production costs are and how items are priced for a given market. I’ll stick with my previous argument that the quality of the blank is much less important to spin fishing than to fly fishing, and hence, that comparing prices between spinning rods and fly rods is unfair.  However, I also strongly suspect that we fly fishers are not getting any bargains on premium rods. TPM

Response:

Question:

Several of us are trying to get a Chat Room set up on Prodigy and a conference room on AOL so that we can talk with each other, tell or stories about the one that gotr away or what ever. To do this we need to show interest. If your into this and subscribe to Prodigy or AOL let me know and I’ll pass the info on Thanks Fishing the Green in Utah

Response:

Several of us are trying to get a Chat Room set up on Prodigy and a conference room on AOL so that we can talk with each other, tell or stories about the one that gotr away or what ever. To do this we need to show interest. If your into this and subscribe to Prodigy or AOL let me know and I’ll pass the info on.

You might consider getting in contact with Alan Dechovitz on AOL, his handle is Caribe Duo. He already runs two nets a month. Currently they are held on the first tuesday and third sunday on each month. He is expanding the net to include guest speakers for Febuary and March. See ya, Bob

Response:

INTERESTED

Response:

I am on AOL. My screen name is Fishingfly. From S.E. Idaho. I am very interested in a chat. Also holding Eastern Idaho fly tying expo in Pocatello on April 8 at the Quality Inn. 70 top tyers from the west  

Response:

interested in this

Response:

I am AOL my screen name is Fishingfly. My name is Chuck Collins. I am from Pocatello, Idaho. Would be interested in Chat.

Response:

Hi E.- I’m currently on Compuserve and AOL in a comparison mode.  My current thinking is AOl between the two but I am seriously condidering Internet instead of either of them.  Cheaper for me thru the U of Minn connection. However, I am always interested in talking flyfishing and I may stay with AOL.  CIS is just too damned expensive  -  almost twice the hourly cost for chat lines or BBS’s. I’ll be watching to see if you get something going. John Bjostad in Mpls

Response:

Prefer CompuServe.

Response:

Im interested my screen name is VinceT1027 contact me on AOL!!!

Response:

sounds like a good idea let me know if it gets going

Response:

im interested. im a ff. i sub to aol.

Response:

i work for mk.  i am in seattle. im a ff. i would very much like a chat line in aol.  i am learning ff.

Response:

An AOL chat line sounds good to me. You can get a rise out of me at tight lines! the bobinator   The Bobinator

Response:

Yes This would be great so that we could pass informatiom around on where it is hot and where it is not.

Response:

I’m interested, MG caddis

Response:

I’m definitely interested. On AOL.  From MA.  Both fresh and salywater flyfishing.  Let me Know how it works out.                                                              Feltsole

Response:

Ready any evening.

Response:

Several of us are trying to get a Chat Room set up on Prodigy and a conference room on AOL so that we can talk with each other, tell or stories about the one that gotr away or what ever. To do this we need to show interest. If your into this and subscribe to Prodigy or AOL let me know and I’ll pass the info on.

As a subscriber of prodigy, please enter my interest in a bb or chat – great idea!

Response:

I would really enjoy a conference room on AOL. Contact me when something develops. Thanks, PresG

Response:

My screen name is DON1RENO I am interested in a room and maybe holding some seminars or workshops online for those hideous nights after work

Response:

For all who wanted a Chat Room. AOL Keyword GS OTHER, Enter "Other Sports", highlight Chat Rooms, Choose Sports Rooms and then enter "Sideline" I’m not real sure what goes on in sidelines, but lets meet there Sat. evening at around 9:00PM EST. If need be, maybe we’ll just have to take it over for awhile. I want to thank all of you for your help and support in this, I’ve had about 40 replys. Thjanks

Response:

Tight Lines and Screaming Reels Southern Style! Let me know Phil B.

Response:

MartinR100 at AOL, would be interested.

Response:

Response:

you got a rise out of me. i would like to be able to have real-time conversations on aol with persons who are hooked on flyfishing like me. stan in ca stan in ca

Response: