Question:

I’m a little confused by how a braided loop failure could cause the loss of a fly line, unless you use a loop-to-loop connection between your line and backing.

Actually, I use them there too. I can see if you didn’t fasten it on good it could get pushed off by a guide as the line went into the backing. I use thread and Aquaseal to fasten the end of the connector on instead of the shrink tubing partly for that reason. — Charlie…

Response:

Hello Dave, A pretty standard way to connect leaders to floating freshwater fly lines is to needle-nail knot on a butt section of mono first. The section should be around 2/3 the diameter of the end of your fly line and at least the same diameter of the butt of the tapered leader being used. Averagely this is 25# mono that is around .021", but this can vary depending on the diameter of the end or point of the floating line used. I have seen butts used from 6" to 18" but a foot long is pretty average. Sunset "Amnesia" shooting line, Hal Janssen "Leader Control" (clear Amnesia) or Maxima "Ultra Green" are some popular mono around here for fresh water butts. Some will put a small perfection loop on the end of the butt or some will use a 3 or 4 turn blood knot to attach their knotless tapered leader. Your local fly shop should be able to show you how this is done. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After hearing lots of negative comments about the loop connectors that come with some lines (Orvis), and noticing that my line tips tend to sink a bit, I’ve decided to experiment and replace the loop connectors with a short length of nail-knotted leader ending in a small loop. The question:  What length, weight, type, even brands of leaders would be best for this?  I’m sure the answer is related to the weight and type of flyline the leader is being attached to — I’d be making this changeover on the following: Orvis wf 5 wt floating trout line Wonderline wf 6 wt floating trout line Wonderline wf 6 wt floating bass line. Thanks for your help! Dave

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After hearing lots of negative comments about the loop connectors that come with some lines (Orvis), and noticing that my line tips tend to sink a bit, I’ve decided to experiment and replace the loop connectors with a short length of nail-knotted leader ending in a small loop. The question:  What length, weight, type, even brands of leaders would be best for this?  I’m sure the answer is related to the weight and type of flyline the leader is being attached to — I’d be making this changeover on the following: Orvis wf 5 wt floating trout line Wonderline wf 6 wt floating trout line Wonderline wf 6 wt floating bass line. Thanks for your help! Dave I use a nail knot to tie my leader directly to the fly line. I hate the braided loops. Particularly after after one failed and I lost a fly line and a striper size XXL. Paul

I’m a little confused by how a braided loop failure could cause the loss of a fly line, unless you use a loop-to-loop connection between your line and backing. — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip] I use a nail knot to tie my leader directly to the fly line. I hate the braided loops. Particularly after after one failed and I lost a fly line and a striper size XXL. Paul I’m a little confused by how a braided loop failure could cause the loss of a fly line, unless you use a loop-to-loop connection between your line and backing.

It was a shooting head to running line. The fish decided it was too close to the boat. It took off and on the way throught the guides the shrink tube that keeps the braid from fraying must have hit a guide that released the tension on the braid and bye bye fish and shooting head. I went home and cut off all the braided loops from all my lines and tied nail knots on all leader and backing to fly line connections. Haven’t had a problem in the 9 years since I did that. Paul

Response:

I did exactly that . . . I got rid of the braided connectors and went to the mono nail knot/perfection loop. Mine is about 4 inches in length as attached. I used the backend of a leader that I commonly use. I figured it should be similar to the leader material in weight and make up, so I used one! At this point, I wont go back to the braided connectors. I did it to the following: Orvis Wonderline WF 5wt SA Mastery Series GPX WF 5wt I am also planning on using this method on my 7wt when I get the rod built!! Wayne says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After hearing lots of negative comments about the loop connectors that come with some lines (Orvis), and noticing that my line tips tend to sink a bit, I’ve decided to experiment and replace the loop connectors with a short length of nail-knotted leader ending in a small loop. The question:  What length, weight, type, even brands of leaders would be best for this?  I’m sure the answer is related to the weight and type of flyline the leader is being attached to — I’d be making this changeover on the following: Orvis wf 5 wt floating trout line Wonderline wf 6 wt floating trout line Wonderline wf 6 wt floating bass line. Thanks for your help! Dave

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After hearing lots of negative comments about the loop connectors that come with some lines (Orvis), and noticing that my line tips tend to sink a bit, I’ve decided to experiment and replace the loop connectors with a short length of nail-knotted leader ending in a small loop. The question:  What length, weight, type, even brands of leaders would be best for this?  I’m sure the answer is related to the weight and type of flyline the leader is being attached to — I’d be making this changeover on the following: Orvis wf 5 wt floating trout line Wonderline wf 6 wt floating trout line Wonderline wf 6 wt floating bass line. Thanks for your help! Dave

I use a nail knot to tie my leader directly to the fly line. I hate the braided loops. Particularly after after one failed and I lost a fly line and a striper size XXL. Paul

Response:

My floating lines are set up with braided loops and nail knotted mono/perfection loops on the sinking ones.  Braided loops can trap air and hold the tip of a sinking line up.  I once used one on a Type 5 sinktip only to see the belly two foot down and the tip on the surface.  Since then all sinking lines have been mono only.  As Ken mentioned, they should be as short as practical and roughly  two thirds the thickness of the tip or about mid way in thickness between the leader butt and line tip. All braided loops will fail if they are not installed properly.  The end of the floating fly line should be sealed with glue to prevent the ingress of water that would cause the tip to sink.  The tip of the line should be inserted fully into the sleeve and as far as possible into the doubled over section of the loop.  A nail knot should be tied on the opposite end of the sleeve, securing it to the line.  The heat shrink tubing should be placed over the knot and the end of the sleeve to prevent fraying as well as smoothing its passage through the guides.  Glue shouldn’t be used on the sleeve as it can make it brittle and prone to breakage.  Braided loops should be periodically checked for fraying. Both loop system can fail, even when well installed.  Enough pressure can break a braided loop, pull a nail knot off the line, or break a perfection loop.  The trick is to make sure that the transition loop isn’t the weakest link.  A properly installed braided loop provide superior turnover due to their inherent stiffness when properly installed and are especially suited to use with heavy sinking leaders like Airflo Polyleaders.  Their tendency to float helps keep the tips of floating lines up plus they can also serve as strike indicators if you use a bright coloured heat shrink tube. HTH Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Bill, After a phone conversation with your staff about 3 weeks ago, I went to the nail knot/surgeon’s or perfection loop set-up for all my saltwater rigs.  I also shortened my Orvis 38 ft. shooting head to 30 ft. per their suggestion and casting improved tremendously.  I kept trying to buy some shooting heads from those guys and they insisted I check locally to see what was being used successfully.  I have to say they ended up getting me steered in the right directions on a number of saltwater options.  I would suggest though, that east coast fishing setups  can be related to west coast fishing setups through water temperatures. Might broaden your sales base?? — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Dave, A pretty standard way to connect leaders to floating freshwater fly lines is to needle-nail knot on a butt section of mono first. The section should be around 2/3 the diameter of the end of your fly line and at least the same diameter of the butt of the tapered leader being used. Averagely this is 25# mono that is around .021", but this can vary depending on the diameter of the end or point of the floating line used. I have seen butts used from 6" to 18" but a foot long is pretty average. Sunset "Amnesia" shooting line, Hal Janssen "Leader Control" (clear Amnesia) or Maxima "Ultra Green" are some popular mono around here for fresh water butts. Some will put a small perfection loop on the end of the butt or some will use a 3 or 4 turn blood knot to attach their knotless tapered leader. Your local fly shop should be able to show you how this is done. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

Response:

After hearing lots of negative comments about the loop connectors that come with some lines (Orvis), and noticing that my line tips tend to sink a bit, I’ve decided to experiment and replace the loop connectors with a short length of nail-knotted leader ending in a small loop. The question:  What length, weight, type, even brands of leaders would be best for this?  I’m sure the answer is related to the weight and type of flyline the leader is being attached to — I’d be making this changeover on the following: Orvis wf 5 wt floating trout line Wonderline wf 6 wt floating trout line Wonderline wf 6 wt floating bass line. Thanks for your help! Dave

Response:

… The question:  What length, weight, type, even brands of leaders would be best for this?  …

I use the nail knot/perfection loop setup on my 5wts. I like Orvis Super Strong and find that .019 matches up with my 5wt lines. Most anything in the range of .017 to .021 would work. As for the length, I make it as short as  I possibly can and still tie a perfection loop. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Question:

…reading a bit of ol bartram’s writings from the late 1700s (e-document on a UNC web site noted at the bottom of this post)and ran upon the following… southern fly-fishing heritage, eh? course, like most furriners, ol bartram didn’t know a trout from whatever it was those boys were dappin out from under the river bank in Florida… "….covered with the white hair of a deer’s tail, shreds of a red garter, and some particoloured feathers…." Fascinating.  Thanks for posting it. JR

thanks jeffie…. bartram’s travels is a classic….. well worth the read. –waldo, hoping i still have a copy somewheres…

Response:

Appreciate posts on FF history, thanx. Dave

Response:

Jeff  I missed the post explaing UnC  web to read early Bartram—-please offer again– Playing tennis thru Nov 11 but if you are interested in a western N.C. trip after that   let me know–only one  proviso ( a legal term I think )   motel rooms cannot be exited before six in morning.–Jeff and IJ sharinmg motel room-at 2:30 AM  AM Jeff showers and says I’ve had enought sleep  let"s o  – IJ ask it’s raining and dark and foggy and the next three hour drive is all curves–what the hell are we going to do in Graham Co. N.C at five Am in the mornimng??   Jeff yea but we will miss most of the traffic.  IJ

Response:

Playing tennis thru Nov 11 but if you are interested in a western N.C. trip after that   let me know–only one  proviso ( a legal term I think ) motel rooms cannot be exited before six in morning.–Jeff and IJ sharinmg motel room-at 2:30 AM  AM Jeff showers and says I’ve had enought sleep  let"s o  – IJ ask it’s raining and dark and foggy and the next three hour drive is all curves–what the hell are we going to do in Graham Co. N.C at five Am in the mornimng??   Jeff yea but we will miss most of the traffic.  IJ

I believe that somehow I must be related to Jeff Miller. I’m off to call my mom. –Steve

Response:

i think this is what you wanted, but not sure…  http://docsouth.unc.edu/nc/bartram/bartram.html …i’m probably not gonna be able to get back to the mountains before christmas… but i might get ol pj and make a visit to you and that bass pond you keep braggin about… we’d arrive early and leave late, eat all your food, and drink your whisky… and since jim’s comin, you might wanna warn dene too… i hear it’s nice in wilmington this time of year… jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –        The electronic edition is a part of the UNC-CH digitization project, Documenting the American South.

Response:

…reading a bit of ol bartram’s writings from the late 1700s (e-document on a UNC web site noted at the bottom of this post)and ran upon the following… southern fly-fishing heritage, eh? course, like most furriners, ol bartram didn’t know a trout from whatever it was those boys were dappin out from under the river bank in Florida…

"….covered with the white hair of a deer’s tail, shreds of a red garter, and some particoloured feathers…."   Fascinating.  Thanks for posting it. JR

Response:

That ‘delicious food’ part doesn’t seem to fit, does it? riverman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …reading a bit of ol bartram’s writings from the late 1700s (e-document on a UNC web site noted at the bottom of this post)and ran upon the following… southern fly-fishing heritage, eh? course, like most furriners, ol bartram didn’t know a trout from whatever it was those boys were dappin out from under the river bank in Florida… jeff <Page 108 "ON my return, I found some of my companions fishing for trout, round about the edges of the floating nymphaea, and not unsuccessfully, having then caught more than sufficient for us all. As the method of taking these fish is curious and singular, I shall just mention it. THEY are taken with a hook and line, but without any bait. Two people are in a little canoe, one sitting in the stern to steer, and the other near the bow, having a rod ten or twelve feet in length, to one end of which is tied a strong line, about twenty inches in length, to which is fastened three large hooks, back to back. These are fixed very securely, and covered with the white hair of a deer’s tail, shreds of a red garter, and some particoloured feathers, all which form a tuft, or tassel, nearly as large as one’s fist, and entirely cover and conceal the hooks:

this is called a bob. The steersman paddles softly, and proceeds slowly along shore, keeping the

boat parallel to it, at a distance just sufficient to admit the fisherman to reach the edge of

the floating weeds along shore: he now ingeniously swings the bob backwards and forwards, just above the surface, and sometimes tips the water with it; when the unfortunate cheated trout

instantly springs from under the weeds, and seizes the supposed prey. Thus he is caught without a

possibility of escape, unless he break the hooks, line, or rod, which he, however, sometime does

by dint of strength; but, to prevent this, the fisherman used to the sport is careful not to

raise the reed suddenly up, but jerks it instantly backwards, then steadily drags the sturdy reluctant

fish to the side of the < Page 109 canoe, and with a sudden upright jerk brings him into it. THE head of this fish makes about one third of his length, and

consequently the mouth is very large: birds, fish, frogs, and even serpents, are frequently found in its stomach. THE trout is of lead colour, inclining to a deep blue, and marked with

transverse waved lists, of a deep slate colour, and when fully grown, has a cast of red, or brick colour. The fins, with the tail, which is large, and beautifully formed, are of a light

reddish purple, or flesh colour, the whole body is covered with large scales. But what is most singular,

this fish is remarkably ravenous; nothing living, that he can seize upon, escapes his jaws, and the opening

and extending of the branchiostega, at the moment he rises to the surface to seize his prey,

discovering his bright red gills, through the transparent waters, give him a very terible appearance. Indeed

it may be observed, that all fish of prey have this opening and covering of the gills very large, in

order to discharge the great quantity of water, which they take in at their mouth, when they

strike at their prey. This fish is nearly cuniform, the body tapering gradually from the breast to the

tail, and lightly compressed on each side. They frequently weigh fifteen, twenty and thirty pounds, and are delicious food. …quoted from Travels Through North & South Carolina, Georgia, East & West

Florida, the Cherokee Country, the Extensive Territories of the Muscogulges, or Creek Confederacy, and the

Country of the Chactaws; Containing An Account of the Soil and Natural Productions of Those Regions,

Together with Observations on the Manners of the Indians. Embellished with Copper-Plates (spine) Bartram’s Travels William Bartram xxxiv, 522 p., ill. PHILADELPHIA: PRINTED BY JAMES & JOHNSON. M, DCC, XCI. Call number VC917 B29 (North Carolina Collection, University of North

Carolina at Chapel Hill) http://docsouth.unc.edu/nc/bartram/bartram.html —–        The electronic edition is a part of the UNC-CH digitization

project, Documenting the American South. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

…reading a bit of ol bartram’s writings from the late 1700s (e-document on a UNC web site noted at the bottom of this post)and ran upon the following… southern fly-fishing heritage, eh? course, like most furriners, ol bartram didn’t know a trout from whatever it was those boys were dappin out from under the river bank in Florida… jeff <Page 108         "ON my return, I found some of my companions fishing for trout, round about the edges of the floating nymphaea, and not unsuccessfully, having then caught more than sufficient for us all. As the method of taking these fish is curious and singular, I shall just mention it.         THEY are taken with a hook and line, but without any bait. Two people are in a little canoe, one sitting in the stern to steer, and the other near the bow, having a rod ten or twelve feet in length, to one end of which is tied a strong line, about twenty inches in length, to which is fastened three large hooks, back to back. These are fixed very securely, and covered with the white hair of a deer’s tail, shreds of a red garter, and some particoloured feathers, all which form a tuft, or tassel, nearly as large as one’s fist, and entirely cover and conceal the hooks: this is called a bob. The steersman paddles softly, and proceeds slowly along shore, keeping the boat parallel to it, at a distance just sufficient to admit the fisherman to reach the edge of the floating weeds along shore: he now ingeniously swings the bob backwards and forwards, just above the surface, and sometimes tips the water with it; when the unfortunate cheated trout instantly springs from under the weeds, and seizes the supposed prey. Thus he is caught without a possibility of escape, unless he break the hooks, line, or rod, which he, however, sometime does by dint of strength; but, to prevent this, the fisherman used to the sport is careful not to raise the reed suddenly up, but jerks it instantly backwards, then steadily drags the sturdy reluctant fish to the side of the < Page 109 canoe, and with a sudden upright jerk brings him into it.         THE head of this fish makes about one third of his length, and consequently the mouth is very large: birds, fish, frogs, and even serpents, are frequently found in its stomach. THE trout is of lead colour, inclining to a deep blue, and marked with transverse waved lists, of a deep slate colour, and when fully grown, has a cast of red, or brick colour. The fins, with the tail, which is large, and beautifully formed, are of a light reddish purple, or flesh colour, the whole body is covered with large scales. But what is most singular, this fish is remarkably ravenous; nothing living, that he can seize upon, escapes his jaws, and the opening and extending of the branchiostega, at the moment he rises to the surface to seize his prey, discovering his bright red gills, through the transparent waters, give him a very terible appearance. Indeed it may be observed, that all fish of prey have this opening and covering of the gills very large, in order to discharge the great quantity of water, which they take in at their mouth, when they strike at their prey. This fish is nearly cuniform, the body tapering gradually from the breast to the tail, and lightly compressed on each side. They frequently weigh fifteen, twenty and thirty pounds, and are delicious food. …quoted from Travels Through North & South Carolina, Georgia, East & West Florida, the Cherokee Country, the Extensive Territories of the Muscogulges, or Creek Confederacy, and the Country of the Chactaws; Containing An Account of the Soil and Natural Productions of Those Regions, Together with Observations on the Manners of the Indians. Embellished with Copper-Plates (spine) Bartram’s Travels William Bartram xxxiv, 522 p., ill. PHILADELPHIA: PRINTED BY JAMES & JOHNSON. M, DCC, XCI. Call number VC917 B29 (North Carolina Collection, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill) http://docsouth.unc.edu/nc/bartram/bartram.html         The electronic edition is a part of the UNC-CH digitization project, Documenting the American South.

Response:

Question:

I know ‘zackly what you mean, Charlie. I spend too much time there also. The guy you referred to is "Mac" who is famous for ruining production rods and then listing them as "restored". His latest kick is plaid signature wraps. But then, there ARE still a few deals showing up daily. I snagged a Courtney Ryley Cooper SB/Doublebuilt for $71 last week and a good friend made off with an unidentified Ray Bergman/Dickerson for the ridiculous sum of $36 + shipping. Vigilance pays off sometimes.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     As an unapologetic gear whore, I spend way too much time (and money) on e-bay. I’ve been burned more than once by bamboo swindlers, lately the crooks seem to outnumber the honest dealers. I just noticed a Heddon#17 that opened at $75.00 more than it is worth, the first (and only) bidder made an opening bid of $150.00 more than the opening price.I recently read about some guys who were indicted for bidding up their own items (utilizing other user names) to create a false sense of interest, and I suspect that is what’s happening with the Heddon. A lot of this crap still goes on, beware of it. When you see so many low end Montagues selling for $85.00 with 4 or 5 total bids, beware of the short tipped Sunbeam that has been bid up to $175.00 by fifteen bidders. Don’t be fooled into thinking something is valuable, just because there appears to be a lot of interest in the item.    Always insist on a return privilege after you’ve won a bid. I’ve been burned three times this year by swindlers who blatantly lied about the product, the worst case being the guy who’s 8′ Redwing arrived as a no-name Japanese rod, worth $35.00.    There are several guys who sell a lot of counterfeit rods on e-bay. One guy out of central Oregon is pretty good, and it takes an expert’s eye to detect some of the working class rods he’s turned into high dollar collectibles. There’s another guy here in Colorado who takes crappy rods, changes the reel seat, and slaps on a coat of glossy varnish. This guy is also in the habit of turning 9′ buggy whips into 7 1/2′ "highly collectibles, rods like this sell for over $1000.00". Do you have any idea what it does to a rod’s castability (a cheap rod that wasn’t good to start with) when you cut 6" out of each section? It pains me just to look at some of his images, which usually depict a way too small ferrule crammed onto a crudely whittled-down section.    With that said, there are some occasional deals to be had. I often skip over the ads that don’t even mention the maker’s name in the header, 99% of them are junkers. Last fall, I bought a mint Edwards salmon rod, the seller didn’t know what it was, and I wasn’t sure until it arrived; I paid less than $200.00 for it. I had no use for a bamboo salmon rod, so I recently swapped it for a 7 1/2′ Granger. So, with a little bit of luck, I’ve come out about even on e-bay.

Response:

I feel for you and have noticed the same thing in the local equivilent, lots of cheap gear with unrealistic prices on them. On the other hand I recently put a scsi card up for auction at half its used value.I was abused for putting a "high" price on it. Damned if I was going to put a $4000 scsi controller (still in shrink wrap) on auction for 30 bucks. There are a hell of a lot of unscrupulous dealers out there and many people the law in the states regarding false claims when selling something. There must be something around to stop them.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     As an unapologetic gear whore, I spend way too much time (and money) on e-bay. I’ve been burned more than once by bamboo swindlers, lately the crooks seem to outnumber the honest dealers. I just noticed a Heddon#17 that opened at $75.00 more than it is worth, the first (and only) bidder made an opening bid of $150.00 more than the opening price.I recently read about some guys who were indicted for bidding up their own items (utilizing other user names) to create a false sense of interest, and I suspect that is what’s happening with the Heddon. A lot of this crap still goes on, beware of it. When you see so many low end Montagues selling for $85.00 with 4 or 5 total bids, beware of the short tipped Sunbeam that has been bid up to $175.00 by fifteen bidders. Don’t be fooled into thinking something is valuable, just because there appears to be a lot of interest in the item.    Always insist on a return privilege after you’ve won a bid. I’ve been burned three times this year by swindlers who blatantly lied about the product, the worst case being the guy who’s 8′ Redwing arrived as a no-name Japanese rod, worth $35.00.    There are several guys who sell a lot of counterfeit rods on e-bay. One guy out of central Oregon is pretty good, and it takes an expert’s eye to detect some of the working class rods he’s turned into high dollar collectibles. There’s another guy here in Colorado who takes crappy rods, changes the reel seat, and slaps on a coat of glossy varnish. This guy is also in the habit of turning 9′ buggy whips into 7 1/2′ "highly collectibles, rods like this sell for over $1000.00". Do you have any idea what it does to a rod’s castability (a cheap rod that wasn’t good to start with) when you cut 6" out of each section? It pains me just to look at some of his images, which usually depict a way too small ferrule crammed onto a crudely whittled-down section.    With that said, there are some occasional deals to be had. I often skip over the ads that don’t even mention the maker’s name in the header, 99% of them are junkers. Last fall, I bought a mint Edwards salmon rod, the seller didn’t know what it was, and I wasn’t sure until it arrived; I paid less than $200.00 for it. I had no use for a bamboo salmon rod, so I recently swapped it for a 7 1/2′ Granger. So, with a little bit of luck, I’ve come out about even on e-bay.

Response:

 I haven’t worked for any sellers and I don’t think  I’m stupid (tho I did take up flyfishing after a fashion  this last year, so may that’s questionable…).  But I  don’t have any interest in planning my life around  eBay pumpkin times to buy Yet Another Thing  that I do not really need.  Whatever this thing that I  can’t live without is, it will inevitably pop up again,  either on eBay or somewhere else.

     Good advise, generally. I let a lot of desirable things go, just because I couldn’t be near the computer at the time of their closing (a man has to fish, you know). The point I tried to make is, if you bid twenty dollars with ten hours till closing, somebody is more likely to come along and outbid you, whereas the same bid right at closing is more likely to get the item. I don’t buy *anything* unless I get a good deal on it, and I’m not the only puter user in the world who recognizes a good deal.      I picked up an item last week that I really wanted, but I couldn’t be around the computer at the time of closing. The item (I’d never seen one like it before) had gone six days without a bid, but I figured other sharks (like me) were circling in the waters. With ten hours to go, I bid twice the opening price (and a third the real value) and left for the day, allowing the proxy bid to do it’s thing. I returned that evening to find I’d won the item for a price just fifty cents under my max. A review of the bid history revealed a bidding war had erupted in the final six minutes of the auction, and I was literally saved by the bell. If I hadn’t won it wouldn’t have mattered anyway, because it’s only stuff.

Response:

 That’s the best advice re eBay.  Further, I would  make that "max you’re willing to pay" at least 20  to 25 percent less than I would be willing to pay  through another venue.  If you get the item and it is  what was advertised, you’ve done well.  If you don’t  get it it’s no big deal, invariably another one will  come along.

Right.  There is a little more risk involved because the people aren’t established businesses.  98% of mine have been fine.  If you use common sense and check for bad feedback, it helps.  Paying with PayPal or other credit card service also helps protect you.  If you’re not buying something pretty rare, and you’re not in a big rush, you can get respectable deals.

Response:

 "Jeff Connelly" Right.  There is a little more risk involved because the people aren’t established businesses.  98% of mine have been fine.  That’s in the same ballpark as my experiences:  I’ve had 2 not very good transactions out of a  total of about 70.

    I have been burned three times out of 100+ transactions. All three of the bad deals were bamboo fly rods; I’ve never gotten a bum deal on other types of merchandise.

Response:

It’s a numbers game.  Play enough and you will get burned.  I wuz 3 out of 100 + and no bamboo rods! John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Jeff Connelly" Right.  There is a little more risk involved because the people aren’t established businesses.  98% of mine have been fine.  That’s in the same ballpark as my experiences:  I’ve had 2 not very good transactions out of a  total of about 70.    I have been burned three times out of 100+ transactions. All three of the bad deals were bamboo fly rods; I’ve never gotten a bum deal on other types of merchandise.

Response:

Good idea and good advice, but not always permitted under eBays rules.  If a seller refuses your return privilege request/demand after you’ve won, he can legitimately post negative feedback about you and eBay would stand behind the seller every time.

Oh, one more thing regarding feedback.  Feedback is only slightly useful because it’s 2-way feedback, and after a number of years I’ve come to the conclusion feedback should be sent to the seller only.  Otherwise, it’s just a game where people know they will usually get negative feedback in retaliation for giving negative feedback.  Therefore, I believe most people don’t give negative feedback ever.  Many sellers have much less negative feedback than they deserve.  One way feedback, such as on Amazon, seems to work much better.  Moral of the story: if an eBay seller has much negative feedback, you should avoid him.  If he doesn’t – well, you really don’t know much.

Response:

    As an unapologetic gear whore, I spend way too much time (and money) on e-bay. I’ve been burned more than once by bamboo swindlers, lately the crooks seem to outnumber the honest dealers. I just noticed a Heddon#17 that opened at $75.00 more than it is worth, the first (and only) bidder made an opening bid of $150.00 more than the opening price.I recently read about some guys who were indicted for bidding up their own items (utilizing other user names) to create a false sense of interest, and I suspect that is what’s happening with the Heddon. A lot of this crap still goes on, beware of it. When you see so many low end Montagues selling for $85.00 with 4 or 5 total bids, beware of the short tipped Sunbeam that has been bid up to $175.00 by fifteen bidders. Don’t be fooled into thinking something is valuable, just because there appears to be a lot of interest in the item.    Always insist on a return privilege after you’ve won a bid. I’ve been burned three times this year by swindlers who blatantly lied about the product, the worst case being the guy who’s 8′ Redwing arrived as a no-name Japanese rod, worth $35.00.    There are several guys who sell a lot of counterfeit rods on e-bay. One guy out of central Oregon is pretty good, and it takes an expert’s eye to detect some of the working class rods he’s turned into high dollar collectibles. There’s another guy here in Colorado who takes crappy rods, changes the reel seat, and slaps on a coat of glossy varnish. This guy is also in the habit of turning 9′ buggy whips into 7 1/2′ "highly collectibles, rods like this sell for over $1000.00". Do you have any idea what it does to a rod’s castability (a cheap rod that wasn’t good to start with) when you cut 6" out of each section? It pains me just to look at some of his images, which usually depict a way too small ferrule crammed onto a crudely whittled-down section.    With that said, there are some occasional deals to be had. I often skip over the ads that don’t even mention the maker’s name in the header, 99% of them are junkers. Last fall, I bought a mint Edwards salmon rod, the seller didn’t know what it was, and I wasn’t sure until it arrived; I paid less than $200.00 for it. I had no use for a bamboo salmon rod, so I recently swapped it for a 7 1/2′ Granger. So, with a little bit of luck, I’ve come out about even on e-bay.

Response:

I just noticed a Heddon#17 that opened at $75.00 more than it is worth, the first (and only) bidder made an opening bid of $150.00 more than the opening price.

   Sorry to add to my own thread, but I just noticed this Heddon has a short tip, so it’s opening price was about $200.00 more than it is worth. It has now been "bid up" to approximately 3X what it’s really worth.    And fwiw, last week I purchased a higher grade Heddon, in better shape. I paid $200.00 + shipping to a reputable dealer from Michigan.

Response:

    As an unapologetic gear whore, I spend way too much time (and money) on e-bay.

As long as you sell (almost) as much as you buy, you’ll be alright What’s that?  You end up buying a lot more than you sell??  :-) I recently read about some guys who were indicted for bidding up their own items (utilizing other user names) to create a false sense of interest, and I suspect that is what’s happening with the Heddon.

Between me and especially my brother we’ve seen a lot of eBay action, and this and much more does go on.  It’s virtually unstoppable in the long run. There’s really only one way around it for the buyer, and it’s quite simple… Don’t be fooled into thinking something is valuable, just because there appears to be a lot of interest in the item.

…know what the value of the item you want to buy.  This is obviously true no matter what you buy – it’s not an eBay thing.  Well, maybe I oversimplified, because in some cases where an item is very rare, it’s the other bids that help you determine its value.  eBay is a good value-meter for things that are not unique, and that a good number of transactions occur for.  For the life of me though, I can’t understand people that bitch and moan because they got outbid "at the last second".  They complain about "poachers", who wait until the auction is a minute from ending, and swoop in with their "guerilla bid".  So freakin’ what?  Proxy bid the max that you’re willing to pay.  There is one thing that sellers can get away with though that’s unethical.  Use a fake name to raise the bid if you think a buyer has proxy-bidded higher than his actual bid.  If you go over it by mistake, just retract the bid.  That way you have a way of knowing how high a person will go, and make him go there.  I don’t think eBay would let you get away with it more than a few times though.    There are several guys who sell a lot of counterfeit rods on e-bay.

The best defense I’ve found against counterfeits, unethical dealers, etc. is a good credit card company.  If you have a good one, they’ll back you up when you refuse payment on an item.  One of the problems with eBay transactions is that there tends to be too many places to lay blame, so everyone points somewhere else.  eBay points to the seller or to a mediator (which is not free), the seller of course won’t help, the payment company (PayPal or whoever) points to the FBI, the FBI isn’t going to take it seriously, or the payment company points to your credit card company.  If your credit card company is good, the buck stops there and you’re covered. I think internet buying and selling is the greatest thing since the electric guitar, but buying rare or unique items without seeing them in person is tough.

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There was one about a month back that I got a kick out of. One of the ebay regulars that refinishes rods with glossy new varnish had a Granger rod – I think. He said it was a Granger rod, however, He replaced the grip with one that didn’t match the original, replaced the reeelseat with an antique aluminum one, replaced the ferrules and guides. He even removed the granger stamp from the rod and wrote Granger on it. Sounds just a little suspicious to me. Paul

    As an unapologetic gear whore, I spend way too much time (and money) on e-bay.

[snip] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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For the life of me though, I can’t understand

people that bitch and moan because they got outbid "at the last second".  They complain about "poachers", who wait until the auction is a minute from ending, and swoop in with their "guerilla bid".  So freakin’ what?<   I was watching a flyrod on Ebay.  Someone put a bid in with less than a minute to go, only to be aced out by another bidder who got in with 9 seconds left.  Talk about "the last second."  I imagine that next to the last bidder was pissed.

Response:

I was watching a flyrod on Ebay.  Someone put a bid in with less than a minute to go, only to be aced out by another bidder who got in with 9 seconds left.  Talk about "the last second."  I imagine that next to the last bidder was pissed.

In the few instances I’ve been a participant in these last second bids, it’s been fun to watch.   For my part, I’ve never really regretted being beat at the last second.   I bid what I’m willing to pay.   If somebody’s willing to pay more, good for them.   I’ve never felt bad about losing one that way. Joe F.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was watching a flyrod on Ebay.  Someone put a bid in with less than a minute to go, only to be aced out by another bidder who got in with 9 seconds left.  Talk about "the last second."  I imagine that next to the last bidder was pissed. In the few instances I’ve been a participant in these last second bids, it’s been fun to watch.   For my part, I’ve never really regretted being beat at the last second.   I bid what I’m willing to pay.   If somebody’s willing to pay more, good for them.   I’ve never felt bad about losing one that way. Joe F.

joe, the animosity generated plum evades me. back in my golden years when i travelled to quite a few thousand auctions buying antiques, libraries, estates and such, i set my limit….. and since i was pretty much a foolish bidder, if some fool outbid me…. well, congrats, nicely done. all i can say is i never regretted winning and i never regretted nor angered over losing. i take that back…. my only regret is that i didn’t go to 27k on a full bronze figurine at an auction outside of daytona beach one evening….  i believe the fool that out-bid me would have dropped out and i would today be enjoying the finest deco sculpture i’ve ever seen… enjoying daily cuz i never would have sold her…. course, marie probably would have divorced my silly ass. ah well…that’s life…. you win some and you lose some. anyway…. the point being…. at auction, and at ebay, thars a hammer. when it slams down… the *last* bidder wins….tain’t much use losing sleep over it…imho. –walt

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For the life of me though, I can’t understand people that bitch and moan because they got outbid "at the last second".  They complain about "poachers", who wait until the auction is a minute from ending, and swoop in with their "guerilla bid.

     Groundless bitching it is. The earlier a bidding war gets started, the higher the price inevitably goes. You gotta play by the home court rules, and use all the legal tactics. When I see something I *really* want, I get involved in the last couple of minutes. Anybody who hasn’t figured this out doesn’t deserve to win the bid. And anybody who actively bids an item with days to go is either stupid or working for the seller. I think internet buying and selling is the greatest thing since the electric guitar, but buying rare or unique items without seeing them in person is tough.

    Agree

Response:

He said it was a Granger rod, however, He replaced the grip with one that didn’t match the original, replaced the reeelseat with an antique aluminum one, replaced the ferrules and guides. He even removed the granger stamp from the rod and wrote Granger on it. Sounds just a little suspicious to me.

Did it have a number on it, by any chance? {;-) George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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<snip    Always insist on a return privilege after you’ve won a bid. I’ve been burned three times this year by swindlers who blatantly lied about the product, the worst case being the guy who’s 8′ Redwing arrived as a no-name Japanese rod, worth $35.00.

Good idea and good advice, but not always permitted under eBays rules.  If a seller refuses your return privilege request/demand after you’ve won, he can legitimately post negative feedback about you and eBay would stand behind the seller every time.  If you want a return privilege, send the seller an e-mail BEFORE you bid, unless there is some sort of return policy/guarantee in the items description and/or auction terms.  It doesn’t take much negative feedback to get people really turned off about dealing with you.    There are several guys who sell a lot of counterfeit rods on e-bay. One guy out of central Oregon is pretty good, and it takes an expert’s eye to detect some of the working class rods he’s turned into high dollar collectibles. There’s another guy here in Colorado who takes crappy rods, changes the reel seat, and slaps on a coat of glossy varnish. This guy is also in the habit of turning 9′ buggy whips into 7 1/2′ "highly collectibles, rods like this sell for over $1000.00". Do you have any idea what it does to a rod’s castability (a cheap rod that wasn’t good to start with) when you cut 6" out of each section? It pains me just to look at some of his images, which usually depict a way too small ferrule crammed onto a crudely whittled-down section.

Wow.  I haven’t been shopping for bamboo rods, but what you describe here is downright amazing.  Good deal for the seller, I guess.    With that said, there are some occasional deals to be had. I often skip over the ads that don’t even mention the maker’s name in the header, 99% of them are junkers. Last fall, I bought a mint Edwards salmon rod, the seller didn’t know what it was, and I wasn’t sure until it arrived; I paid less than $200.00 for it. I had no use for a bamboo salmon rod, so I recently swapped it for a 7 1/2′ Granger. So, with a little bit of luck, I’ve come out about even on e-bay.

I’ve done more selling than buying on eBay, and none of it fishing-related. As a seller, I can honestly state that I have never ripped anybody off.  One guy did buy an old clone PC from me and he paid more for shipping than he did for the PC.  He may have been a fool, but I didn’t rip him off. As a buyer, my experience is much more limited.  Initially, I wasn’t playing like an eBay vulture–so I always got outbid.  More recently I bought some books and got a tremendous deal.  Six hardback novels from the 70s for less than $20, shipping and all, all in excellent condition. With any sort of ‘collectible’ item, or anything of significant value–say over $100–I’d be careful.  There are LOTS of eBay scam artists out there, and plenty of them never get caught.  A slight misrepresentation can result in a practically valueless item being bid up as if it were the real thing. Caveat Emptor never rang more true than the day eBay arrived. Tom G eBay vulture

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Question:

I am planning to buy a decommissioned fishing boat in Holland. The vessel was built in the fifties, and probably has the original engine, a 150 HP Deutz SAM 528. I found nothing on the web concerning this engine (I am waiting for a reply from Deutz). Does anyone know, if parts are still available?

Deutz engines are/were very much used in our inland cargo vessels. Try some of our local shipyards in the Rotterdam area about parts and rebuilding of those engines. If you need some adresses send me an email and I will buy the dutch weekly cargo newspaper and give you a list of shipyards. regards, — Norbert Koster "Sundiver" Diamond aka Halcyon 27 Netherlands e-mail:   remove "remove_this" from email adress

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I am planning to buy a decommissioned fishing boat…has the original engine, a 150 HP Deutz SAM 528. …nothing on the web….Does anyone know, if parts are still available?

Try looking at   http://www.deutz.de/framee.htm   . There’s a gent who sometimes shows his face on this NG and on the TrawlerWorld List ….  Paul Kruse.  He has done extensive comparisons in the course of selecting engines for two boats that he and his son are building, and is quite knowledgeable.  I know that he has quite a bit of information on the Deutz.  Also, another fellow on the TWL (Peter Denton) is, I believe, in the final stages of a large trawler he’s building (in his back yard) in which he has installed a Deutz. Regards, John Gaquin m/v Brefnie Queen 32′ Luhrs

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Hmm….I wonder if it’s AIR COOLED!  All the Deutz diesels I ever encountered or ran were air cooled.  I had some driving 3 phase alternators in Iran that were V-16’s.  They ran faultlessly 24/7 and only came down when we changed the oil in 40C desert heat!…. Air cooled, with a fan in a shroud that could fly a jet, with no water jacket, they were VERY LOUD, indeed!  You had to wear hearing protection to get within 30 ft of one powered up and running 1500 RPM pulling a load….THAT loud. larry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am planning to buy a decommissioned fishing boat in Holland. The vessel was built in the fifties, and probably has the original engine, a 150 HP Deutz SAM 528. I found nothing on the web concerning this engine (I am waiting for a reply from Deutz). Does anyone know, if parts are still available? Thanks Peter Kiss Before you buy.

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I am planning to buy a decommissioned fishing boat in Holland. The vessel was built in the fifties, and probably has the original engine, a 150 HP Deutz SAM 528. I found nothing on the web concerning this engine (I am waiting for a reply from Deutz). Does anyone know, if parts are still available? Thanks Peter Kiss Before you buy.

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Question:

Good story Mike, I often wondered how you got your expertise. Ernie Harrison

<snipped an good fish tail – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Apparently as soon as I had left the table the gentleman who had been standing there watching all the time had asked him who I was, and whether I was one of the more well known dressers there.  My friend had told him that this was indeed the case, and that I would be back later to continue the demo. "Oh, I don’t need the demo", the gent replied, " I don’t know who the bloke is, but he must be a genius, I only showed him how to tie some of these patterns at my stall in the flea-market shortly before the show started, and he sat and tied them here even better and faster than I can, I was just amazed that someone can learn so fast", and he then left the scene. Mike Connor

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says… <Snipped for berevity Very heartening story… I spent the better half of the evening trying to tie a variant of the yellow stimulator pattern that looks a lot like the one a friend from work showed me. I now have a new foe to vanquish and elk hair is thy name!!! http://www.troutflies.com/flies/yellowstimulator.htm I also need to work on gauging how much to cut and put on. Also keeping it from sliding around is a real challenge! Needless to say I got tow four tied. Two abortive and two looking like frankenstiens brides… I need to start building up a good collection of good quality hackles. Trying to tie dry hackles with saddle feathers is making me mental. I am also deathly afraid of going into fly shops as I am spending altogether too much on gather supplies! Tonight I managed to improvise a dubbing twister from a garbage bag tie. It works but it aint pretty! I think I shall prevail upon Tom at work to show me that pattern again at lunch! I’d love to visit one of those shows. I’ll have to keep my eyes open when one comes around my area. — Michael Era

Question:

 East of Aspen, there

Question:

Unless your really going to be using the pack rod for hiking, camping, etc where the small size makes a difference I would stay away from the 4 pc rod. they tend to be very stiff due to the large number of ferrules. I looked at quite a few before i found one that i liked (not stiff). If your just starting out, get a two piece, as the quality is usually much better for the same cost. pack rods req much more engineering to equal the same action of a two piece rod and that extra engineering is usually lacking in lower priced rods and they end up being very stiff. IMO

Response:

I am looking for a beginner’s outfit.  I live in Northern California and will be fishing for trout in rivers and streams.  There are also steelhead, bass and salmon in my area, but I assume (and let me know if I am wrong) that I will need a heavier rod/reel for steelhead, bass and salmon. I was thinking of a 5 weight, 8 1/2 foot rod.  LL Bean has an 2 piece rod  outfit, with a guarentee, for $100    Cabellas has a 4 piece rod outfit  (which may be handy for hiking), with no lifetime guarentee, for about $90.00.  Any thoughts on LL Bean vs. Cabellas?  And if the rods are equal, any thoughts on trading the guarentee (LLBean) for the convience of a  four piece rod (Cabellas)?  Any additional imput would be great. Thanks in advance.

Anthony:         I’d second the advice you got from the other responder to your post I’ve seen and go for the 2 piece unless that kind of small carrying size is really really important to you. As he said, it takes a lot of technology to still give a rod life and yet pack four ferrules on it. Besides, for hiking, you just use the rod case for the 2 piece as a staff. (And they even make a little rubber shoe that fits over standard rod cases to make such a thing even handier.)         As to the weight of your rod, sounds good, and yet, salmon and steelhead would require a significantly heavier rod. BUT, you might want to think about going up one size

Question:

We’re looking to go fishing in Spain next spring. Having given up on the guide books I am keen to find out if anyone has been or knows of  any places to go to etc. Thanks James

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We’re looking to go fishing in Spain next spring. Having given up on the guide books I am keen to find out if anyone has been or knows of  any places to go to etc. Thanks James

James… I met a Spanish trout fishermen on the internet who may be able to give you some leads. His name is Paco…and he can be reached at If you go, let me know. Bob

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Question:

Does anyone have information about fishing in Huatulco/Puerto Escondido, Mexico area? I am planning a trip for mid august, but the only problem is, with less then a month left, I still have no idea what to expect. I will only be able to bring a 7/8 weight, and I will probably fish the bays in Huatulco and Puerto Angel….any other hot spots in the area???? I need to know what kind of fish are availible to me, and of course what flies (specific patterns?) or type of flies (shrimp? baitfish?) and what sizes i should tie them in….also handy would be possibly guide recommendations and leader strengths? Actually, any information at all would be great! I just need all the help I can get! Anyway, if you have any ideas, please either email me OR reply to this message!                                 Thanks in advance,                                 Scott

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have information about fishing in Huatulco/Puerto Escondido, Mexico area? I am planning a trip for mid august, but the only problem is, with less then a month left, I still have no idea what to expect. I will only be able to bring a 7/8 weight, and I will probably fish the bays in Huatulco and Puerto Angel….any other hot spots in the area???? I need to know what kind of fish are availible to me, and of course what flies (specific patterns?) or type of flies (shrimp? baitfish?) and what sizes i should tie them in….also handy would be possibly guide recommendations and leader strengths? Actually, any information at all would be great! I just need all the help I can get! Anyway, if you have any ideas, please either email me OR reply to this message!                                Thanks in advance,                                Scott

You can find some information about fishing in Huatulco and Puerto Angel on my web page.  You can start with http://www.eden.com/~tomzap/hfishing.html Tom Penick             Web page:             Austin, Texas            http://www.eden.com/~tomzap

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Question:

Friends from England expect visit Vanc. Isl. -Nanaimo and north- late June / early July.They would like to do some flyfishing, prefer dry fly, either fishing lakes from canoe or river wading.  Would appreciate any suggestions of suitable waters and reccommened fly patterns. Thanks in advance

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Friends from England expect visit Vanc. Isl. -Nanaimo and north- late June / early July.They would like to do some flyfishing, prefer dry fly, either fishing lakes from canoe or river wading.

For fly patterns, etc. Roderick Haig-Brown’s books are unbeatable:  he lived there (besides being one of the top angling writers of the century.) For geography, the best source 20 years ago was paperback guidebooks by Alec Merriman of the Victoria Daily Colonist, published by Saltaire. Your friends should also be aware of tidewater fishing for sea-dwelling cutthroat trout, which many people think the best summer angling on Vancouver Island. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Contact: 1. Murphy’s Sportsfishing Centre in Port Alberni, B.C. (on the island), 4213 Princess Ave., V9Y 5R2, 604-723-8022 2. http://deepcove.com/fish_hotline/ 3. http://vvv.com/flyfish/ 4. http://www.nwlink.com/~mmurphy/wbc.html B. PS. Can someone tell me how to take bookmarks and imbed them into a e-mail/post? Or at least how to copy the text and paste it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Friends from England expect visit Vanc. Isl. -Nanaimo and north- late June / early July.They would like to do some flyfishing, prefer dry fly, either fishing lakes from canoe or river wading. Would appreciate any suggestions of suitable waters and reccommened fly patterns. Thanks in advance

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