Question:

I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it.

Ditto. Joe F.

Response:

I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it. Ditto.

Ditto ditto. I also have the C clamp base. I use that at home and the pedestal when I travel. — Charlie…

Response:

I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it. Ditto. Ditto ditto. I also have the C clamp base. I use that at home and the pedestal when I travel.

For an economical, non-rotary vise, I started with the Griffin 2A.   A nice vise for not much money.   It’s worth mentioning in light of Charlie’s post that the clamp base for the Griffin and the pedestal base for the Renzetti are interchangeable between the two vises. Joe F.

Response:

I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it.

I have the heavy-duty version of the Renzetti Traveler. I think it’s called the "Saltwater" model, but I’m not sure. Anyway, it gives me the flexibility to tie big steelhead flies, but it still works OK for small flies. I recommend the pedestal version. You can always fix it to your table with a small C-clamp.

Response:

[posted and mailed] [snip] So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Bill I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it.

FWIW (for the Western New England contingent), I just got back from BG Sporting Goods in Westfield, MA and all of their vises are 20% off, which makes their price on the Traveler with cam and pedestal base about $125.00. They also had some nice STH reels at 50% off. — TL, Tim

Response:

Joe F. writes: I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it. Ditto. Joe F.

Ditto Dave

Response:

I would recommend the Orvis rotary.

Second that George Adams "All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of youth that doth not grow stale with age."                                                           —- J.W Muller

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [posted and mailed] [snip] So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Bill I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it. Paul

Another vote here for the Traveler Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Alright, let’s not get snippy A Renzetti Presentation would be excellent and won’t cost you your left nut… /daytripper Don’t you mean Renzetti Traveler? At $325 the Presentation is approaching the left nut range.

WTF – did they go and rename the product line? Or did all those years of Reagan-era inflation triple the price? The Presentation I have sitting on my desk went for all of $130 when I bought it… /daytripper (nonplussed!

Response:

So what vise guys.

Oh, vise guys, is it? Listen kiddo ve vas fly fishin ven your mama vas feedin you on prechewed gefilte fish!  HAH! Wolfgang i’ll give ya vise guys!    :(

Response:

Don’t you mean Renzetti Traveler? At $325 the Presentation is approaching the left nut range. WTF – did they go and rename the product line? Or did all those years of Reagan-era inflation triple the price? The Presentation I have sitting on my desk went for all of $130 when I bought it… /daytripper (nonplussed!

and in what era was that?  The Pleistocene? Peter (who paid more for his in deflated Northern Pesos)

Response:

My folks gave me a Regal for Christmas about 15 years ago. Have never had a problem, still using it today. Mine is a little different than this newer model, (no swivel head) but the jaws are pretty much the same. Great vise! http://www.worleybuggerflyco.com/flytyingtools/Regal_Vises.htm Good luck, JRT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Bill

Response:

[posted and mailed] [snip] So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Bill

I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it. Paul

Response:

(I can be pretty abusive).  

Though, from what I’ve read here, you are mostly self-abusive. Kevin Wait, that doesn’t sound right…

Response:

So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Alright, let’s not get snippy A Renzetti Presentation would be excellent and won’t cost you your left nut… /daytripper

Don’t you mean Renzetti Traveler? At $325 the Presentation is approaching the left nut range. Paul

Response:

I would choose flyfishing over drinking, doing drugs, cheating on your spouse, or collecting beanie babies . . . but that’s just my opinion. Memphis Jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I have it narrowed down to these. I will have to have pedestal base. So when pricing I have just added it in. I like these over at: www.hookhackle.com STANDARD VISES AA vise left and Super II vise right A) AA Vise. Cam closing. Adjustable height. Ideal starter vise for beginners.Item No. 6AAVISE B) Super II Rotating Vise. C-clamp. Black finish. Lever action. Knob on side of vise allows full 360 degree rotation. Jaws will handle hooks in range of 4/0 to 22. Adjustable height and angle. This is a top quality vise and our favorite! Item No. 9408103

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 2 .00 PEDESTAL BASE Designed for the vises above, but can be used with any 3/8" stemmed vise. Over at: www.cabelas.com I like their vises, kind of leaning toward the Atlantic http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal- pod.jhtml;jsessio

nid=DYSOZMKXN0VA0CWQNVECFFAK0BWUMIV0?id=0011423&navAction=push&navCount=9&i n

dexId=cat20534&parentId=cat20534&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2F e n%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod- link.jhtml.2_A&_DAV=http%3A%2F%2Fa1460.g.akamai.n

et%2Fv%2F1460%2F1339%2F6h%2Fwww.cabelas.com%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcontent%2FPod% – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 2 F01%2F14%2F23%2Fp011423ii01.jpg Please help me decide. I also like the Super 2 at hook and hackle Bill Mc — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Alright, let’s not get snippy A Renzetti Presentation would be excellent and won’t cost you your left nut… /daytripper

But still three times more than his highest-priced choice. Just slightly above your price range is the Thompson A Vise, at around $35- $40 at many fly shops. The advantage over all the vises Cabelas has on that page is a stellar reputation for being a very functional utilitarian vise that will last for years and years.  If anything on it breaks, its easily and cheaply replaceable, without buying a whole new vise. — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

http://www.mossycreek.com/orvis_rotary.htm I would recommend the Orvis rotary.  I got the original of this, made by Danica while over in the UK.  Its not as pretty as a Renzetti, but its a vise that will be passed down and used by your great grand kids even after the most abusive use you can think of (I can be pretty abusive).  All this for only $80.  I’ve even gotten a couple of professional tiers to switch (Mike Martinek for one). — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I have it narrowed down to these. I will have to have pedestal base. So when pricing I have just added it in. I like these over at: www.hookhackle.com STANDARD VISES AA vise left and Super II vise right A) AA Vise. Cam closing. Adjustable height. Ideal starter vise for beginners.Item No. 6AAVISE B) Super II Rotating Vise. C-clamp. Black finish. Lever action. Knob on side of vise allows full 360 degree rotation. Jaws will handle hooks in range of 4/0 to 22. Adjustable height and angle. This is a top quality vise and our favorite! Item No. 9408103 …2 2 .00 PEDESTAL BASE Designed for the vises above, but can be used with any 3/8" stemmed vise. Over at: www.cabelas.com I like their vises, kind of leaning toward the Atlantic http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal- pod.jhtml;jsessio nid=DYSOZMKXN0VA0CWQNVECFFAK0BWUMIV0?id=0011423&navAction=push&navCount =9&i n dexId=cat20534&parentId=cat20534&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabela s%2F e n%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod- link.jhtml.2_A&_DAV=http%3A%2F%2Fa1460.g.akamai.n et%2Fv%2F1460%2F1339%2F6h%2Fwww.cabelas.com%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcontent%2F Pod% 2 F01%2F14%2F23%2Fp011423ii01.jpg Please help me decide. I also like the Super 2 at hook and hackle Bill Mc That has to be the most effed-up url ever posted here…

Believe it or not, I just selected the whole deal in Xnews, right clicked and selected "Edit URL", hit OK, and it took me right to the page. Xnews rocks! — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink.

Alright, let’s not get snippy A Renzetti Presentation would be excellent and won’t cost you your left nut… /daytripper

Response:

 http://www.nor-vise.com/norviseinfo.html Best ever. Mr.G.

Response:

[posted and mailed] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Over at: www.cabelas.com I like their vises, kind of leaning toward the Atlantic http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal- pod.jhtml;jsessio nid=DYSOZMKXN0VA0CWQNVECFFAK0BWUMIV0?id=0011423&navAction=push&navCount =9&i n dexId=cat20534&parentId=cat20534&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabela s%2F e n%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod- link.jhtml.2_A&_DAV=http%3A%2F%2Fa1460.g.akamai.n et%2Fv%2F1460%2F1339%2F6h%2Fwww.cabelas.com%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcontent%2F Pod% 2 F01%2F14%2F23%2Fp011423ii01.jpg Gee, that link was easy to put back together!  Next time, try www.makeashorterlink.com http://makeashorterlink.com/?C30C24E62

So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Bill

Response:

Over at: www.cabelas.com I like their vises, kind of leaning toward the Atlantic http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal- pod.jhtml;jsessio

nid=DYSOZMKXN0VA0CWQNVECFFAK0BWUMIV0?id=0011423&navAction=push&navCount=9&i n

dexId=cat20534&parentId=cat20534&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2F e n%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod- link.jhtml.2_A&_DAV=http%3A%2F%2Fa1460.g.akamai.n

et%2Fv%2F1460%2F1339%2F6h%2Fwww.cabelas.com%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcontent%2FPod% 2 F01%2F14%2F23%2Fp011423ii01.jpg

Gee, that link was easy to put back together!  Next time, try www.makeashorterlink.com http://makeashorterlink.com/?C30C24E62

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I have it narrowed down to these. I will have to have pedestal base. So when pricing I have just added it in. I like these over at: www.hookhackle.com STANDARD VISES AA vise left and Super II vise right A) AA Vise. Cam closing. Adjustable height. Ideal starter vise for beginners.Item No. 6AAVISE B) Super II Rotating Vise. C-clamp. Black finish. Lever action. Knob on side of vise allows full 360 degree rotation. Jaws will handle hooks in range of 4/0 to 22. Adjustable height and angle. This is a top quality vise and our favorite! Item No. 9408103 2 .00 PEDESTAL BASE Designed for the vises above, but can be used with any 3/8" stemmed vise. Over at: www.cabelas.com I like their vises, kind of leaning toward the Atlantic http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal- pod.jhtml;jsessio nid=DYSOZMKXN0VA0CWQNVECFFAK0BWUMIV0?id=0011423&navAction=push&navCount=9& i n dexId=cat20534&parentId=cat20534&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2 F e n%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod- link.jhtml.2_A&_DAV=http%3A%2F%2Fa1460.g.akamai.n et%2Fv%2F1460%2F1339%2F6h%2Fwww.cabelas.com%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcontent%2FPod% 2 F01%2F14%2F23%2Fp011423ii01.jpg Please help me decide. I also like the Super 2 at hook and hackle Bill Mc

That has to be the most effed-up url ever posted here…

Response:

I think I have it narrowed down to these. I will have to have pedestal base. So when pricing I have just added it in. I like these over at: www.hookhackle.com STANDARD VISES AA vise left and Super II vise right A) AA Vise. Cam closing. Adjustable height. Ideal starter vise for beginners.Item No. 6AAVISE B) Super II Rotating Vise. C-clamp. Black finish. Lever action. Knob on side of vise allows full 360 degree rotation. Jaws will handle hooks in range of 4/0 to 22. Adjustable height and angle. This is a top quality vise and our favorite! Item No. 9408103 2 .00 PEDESTAL BASE Designed for the vises above, but can be used with any 3/8" stemmed vise. Over at: www.cabelas.com I like their vises, kind of leaning toward the Atlantic http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal- pod.jhtml;jsessio nid=DYSOZMKXN0VA0CWQNVECFFAK0BWUMIV0?id=0011423&navAction=push&navCount=9&i n dexId=cat20534&parentId=cat20534&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2F e n%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod- link.jhtml.2_A&_DAV=http%3A%2F%2Fa1460.g.akamai.n et%2Fv%2F1460%2F1339%2F6h%2Fwww.cabelas.com%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcontent%2FPod% 2 F01%2F14%2F23%2Fp011423ii01.jpg Please help me decide. I also like the Super 2 at hook and hackle Bill Mc — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Question:

Chris,    It is difficult to tail a member of the trout family because their tail is not rigid.  Members of the salmon family are easy to tail. Ernie for all my advice, you should have seen me in practice this morning <G.  had a difficult time tailing a fish and when i finally did, it broke me off right there and shot away.  the way things go sometimes.

<snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – chris

Response:

Landing steelhead with a double-handed rod has always troubled me. ..

Just break the rod in half – always works for me! RalphH

Response:

I have found that just a plain pair of wool glove allows you to grip the fish’s tail much easier.  Hope this is of help. Kevin

Response:

Chris,    It is difficult to tail a member of the trout family because their tail is not rigid.  Members of the salmon family are easy to tail. Ernie

well, we’ll have to agree to disagree.  i find steelhead much easier to tail than some of the pacific salmon, although they are in the same family as trout and steelhead, maybe you meant the salmo genus. btw, another way to get a handle on the fish is to first grab the leader… yes, sometimes you get cuts on your fingers from doing it.  of course, with all the benfits of a 2-handed rod, landing fish on them without beaching them is one of the drawbacks. chris

Response:

I wouldn’t worry about tailing steelhead I’ve found that they roll on their side and don’t trash. If you back out of the water and lay your rod down and keep tension on the line you can get a hold of the tail and then get your fly out.It’s much easier to release a steelhead than a small trout I haven’t seen anything used to tail a steelhead.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Landing steelhead with a double-handed rod has always troubled me. I have tried to tail them, but my hand is often too small and/or weak to do so. Besides, it seems to take too much time to sufficiently weaken them before trying to tail them. I don’t want to exaust them. So I tend to force the issue as quickly as possible and try to beach them as soon as possible. Most of the time I have been successful in doing so although I have lost a few feisty ones that seemed to hate to touch the beach. I don’t mind losing some; I let all of them go any way afterwards. However, I wonder if beaching them might hurt them. Does anyone have any factual information regarding beaching and health of relatively large fish? Could anyone give me lessons about how to tail them? As much as I love to hook them, I would like to release them safely. Shinji on the Sky well, i don’t think it’s good for a big fish to flop around on rocks and sand, you really want to keep the fish in the water and not have the rocks and sand remove the fish’s slime layer or scales.  i haven’t seen any studies on it, but i believe all info on releasing fish recommends not bringing the fish out of water. what i do is make sure i have some loose line off the reel so that once i tail the fish i can illeviate the line pressure so i don’t break the rod.  i haven’t found that it takes much more time to tire a steelhead out to tail it than to beach it.  if it’s a problem with your hands, i think there are some tailing devices out there… most seem to be fairly long handled, but i’m sure you could cut back the handle.  i know cabelas sells them.  you could also make sure to fish with someone else, who can tail your fish and vice-versa, but that’ll probably decrease fishing days if you must have a partner.  look into some sort of tailing device if you can’t use your hands, because it is better for the fish you plan on releasing. chris

Response:

for all my advice, you should have seen me in practice this morning <G.  had a difficult time tailing a fish and when i finally did, it broke me off right there and shot away.  the way things go sometimes. i agree that it’s not that big of a deal to lose a fish once you’ve touched the leader or made a grab for the tail… but it truly is nice to get ahold of a steelhead every once in awhile just to get a real good look at one and technically land a steelhead <G. chris

Heartily I agree. That’s why I was trying to beach them. I’d like to thank and say good-bye to them in a proper manner. Shinji on the Sky

Response:

______  I always just slip my free under the fish and lift just a little without taking the fish out of the water and I turn it (being on the edge of the river now) into what current there may be.  Usually, I can slip the hook out very easily.  When I want the fish to simply swim off, I lower its weight back off my hand and they will almost surely swim off casually rather then darting off, which confirms the calming affect lifting a fish just a little has on them while still letting them stay in the water. This works especially well when using barbless hooks because they come out much easier without upsetting a fish as will most barbed hooks will.  Barbed hooks go in easy but come out with more difficulty unless you pay attention to the angle of the little slit one should try to back such hooks out.  Barbed hooks are easier to remove with a large pair of forceps.  A secret I use is to use a pair of dikes.  Powerful cutting and pointed pliers that I can snip the hook in half (large hooks with large barbs) just behind the barb if its all the way through.  The barb comes out instantly and the fish is free. Yes, it cost me a fly but when you’ve caught a 12 pound or large Steelhead, the cost of a fly you’ve tied yourself is a small price to pay for such great entertainment.  It always amazes me when watching television fishing shows the great amounts of effort the ‘Pros’ will go to to save a fly at the greater expense and stress and damage to the fish.   Hope these suggestions are somewhat useful gentlemen. Mr. G. — http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

Chris,   It is difficult to tail a member of the trout family because their tail is not rigid.  Members of the salmon family are easy to tail.

ARRGH! It’s that Salmonid Taxonomy problem again. Trouts and salmons are all in the family Salmonidae. One of the major genera with in that family is _Salmo_, which includes the Atlantic Salmon and the Brown Trout. Another major family is _Onchorynchus_, which includes the Cutthroat, Rainbow, Golden, Gila, Apache trout and all of the Pacific salmons (pink, king, coho, et cetera). The Lake and Brook Trout are in yet two more genera. (Brookies are technically chars, but I still like them anyway. They’ve got spirit.) At any rate, there is no "trout family" that is distinct from the "salmon family." The criterion that I use is based upon tracing evolutionary relationships. The other criterion may be based upon reproductive migrations or on freshwater vs. saltwater, which leaves us screwed in describing sea-run Cutts or Browns or Steelhead. (Genetically, Steelhead are Rainbows. Bigger and migratory, but rainbows none the less.) Opt out == cop-out. What’s so hard to understand?

Response:

The WDFW gives away a nifty little device at most of the sportsmens shows that is simply a dowel with a plate hook on the end of it. I think they even had directions on how to make them in the regs pamphlet. If you were to make one of these short enough to put in your vest you wouldn’t even have to touch the fish. Simply hook the line with the tool and slide the tool to the fishes mouth. Lift the tool up and the fish unhooks itself. It’s the same principle as the "CatchemRelease" tool you spend $20 on (I have one I use for trout and love it!).  It’s one of the best devices for fishing I have found. It’s simple and better yet it works! Gary

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Landing steelhead with a double-handed rod has always troubled me. I have tried to tail them, but my hand is often too small and/or weak to do so. Besides, it seems to take too much time to sufficiently weaken them before trying to tail them. I don’t want to exaust them. So I tend to force the issue as quickly as possible and try to beach them as soon as possible. Most of the time I have been successful in doing so although I have lost a few feisty ones that seemed to hate to touch the beach. I don’t mind losing some; I let all of them go any way afterwards. However, I wonder if beaching them might hurt them. Does anyone have any factual information regarding beaching and health of relatively large fish? Could anyone give me lessons about how to tail them? As much as I love to hook them, I would like to release them safely. Shinji on the Sky

well, i don’t think it’s good for a big fish to flop around on rocks and sand, you really want to keep the fish in the water and not have the rocks and sand remove the fish’s slime layer or scales.  i haven’t seen any studies on it, but i believe all info on releasing fish recommends not bringing the fish out of water. what i do is make sure i have some loose line off the reel so that once i tail the fish i can illeviate the line pressure so i don’t break the rod.  i haven’t found that it takes much more time to tire a steelhead out to tail it than to beach it.  if it’s a problem with your hands, i think there are some tailing devices out there… most seem to be fairly long handled, but i’m sure you could cut back the handle.  i know cabelas sells them.  you could also make sure to fish with someone else, who can tail your fish and vice-versa, but that’ll probably decrease fishing days if you must have a partner.  look into some sort of tailing device if you can’t use your hands, because it is better for the fish you plan on releasing. chris

Response:

Landing steelhead with a double-handed rod has always troubled me. I have tried to tail them, but my hand is often too small and/or weak to do so. Besides, it seems to take too much time to sufficiently weaken them before trying to tail them. I don’t want to exaust them. So I tend to force the issue as quickly as possible and try to beach them as soon as possible. Most of the time I have been successful in doing so although I have lost a few feisty ones that seemed to hate to touch the beach. I don’t mind losing some; I let all of them go any way afterwards. However, I wonder if beaching them might hurt them. Does anyone have any factual information regarding beaching and health of relatively large fish? Could anyone give me lessons about how to tail them? As much as I love to hook them, I would like to release them safely. Shinji on the Sky

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – well, i don’t think it’s good for a big fish to flop around on rocks and sand, you really want to keep the fish in the water and not have the rocks and sand remove the fish’s slime layer or scales.  i haven’t seen any studies on it, but i believe all info on releasing fish recommends not bringing the fish out of water. what i do is make sure i have some loose line off the reel so that once i tail the fish i can illeviate the line pressure so i don’t break the rod.  i haven’t found that it takes much more time to tire a steelhead out to tail it than to beach it.  if it’s a problem with your hands, i think there are some tailing devices out there… most seem to be fairly long handled, but i’m sure you could cut back the handle.  i know cabelas sells them.  you could also make sure to fish with someone else, who can tail your fish and vice-versa, but that’ll probably decrease fishing days if you must have a partner.  look into some sort of tailing device if you can’t use your hands, because it is better for the fish you plan on releasing. chris

Thanks. Reading your posting, I realize what a fool I was. Why do I have to worry about losing fish while trying to tail them? After all, I am tailing them in order to release them! Shinji on the Sky

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – well, i don’t think it’s good for a big fish to flop around on rocks and sand, you really want to keep the fish in the water and not have the rocks and sand remove the fish’s slime layer or scales.  i haven’t seen any studies on it, but i believe all info on releasing fish recommends not bringing the fish out of water. what i do is make sure i have some loose line off the reel so that once i tail the fish i can illeviate the line pressure so i don’t break the rod.  i haven’t found that it takes much more time to tire a steelhead out to tail it than to beach it.  if it’s a problem with your hands, i think there are some tailing devices out there… most seem to be fairly long handled, but i’m sure you could cut back the handle.  i know cabelas sells them.  you could also make sure to fish with someone else, who can tail your fish and vice-versa, but that’ll probably decrease fishing days if you must have a partner.  look into some sort of tailing device if you can’t use your hands, because it is better for the fish you plan on releasing. chris Thanks. Reading your posting, I realize what a fool I was. Why do I have to worry about losing fish while trying to tail them? After all, I am tailing them in order to release them! Shinji on the Sky

for all my advice, you should have seen me in practice this morning <G.  had a difficult time tailing a fish and when i finally did, it broke me off right there and shot away.  the way things go sometimes. i agree that it’s not that big of a deal to lose a fish once you’ve touched the leader or made a grab for the tail… but it truly is nice to get ahold of a steelhead every once in awhile just to get a real good look at one and technically land a steelhead <G. chris

Response:

Question:

I’ve been using an old Minn Kota 28 lb transom mount electric, thinking of buying a new trolling motor for more power and better ability through weeds. Mostly fish bass and muskies, casting toward shore and working through weeds and around stumps.The boat is 16′ aluminum, side console, powered by 30 horse motor. I think I’ll need at least 48" shaft if I go bowmount, probably 36-42 pound thrust, 12 V. Any experience with the various electric (laser, radio, wire) motor steer style vs pedal with cable steering or hand control? Convenience, durability, reliability, etc? I like to fly fish, am concerned about wrapping line around cables and pedals. Is a bow mount worth the significant extra expense over a transom mount? Appreciate any recommendations you can offer. Thanks in advance.

Response:

I’ve been using an old Minn Kota 28 lb transom mount electric, thinking of buying a new trolling motor for more power and better ability through weeds. Mostly fish bass and muskies, casting toward shore and working through weeds and around stumps.The boat is 16′ aluminum, side console, powered by 30 horse motor. I think I’ll need at least 48" shaft if I go bowmount, probably 36-42 pound thrust, 12 V. Any experience with the various electric (laser, radio, wire) motor steer style vs pedal with cable steering or hand control? Convenience, durability, reliability, etc? I like to fly fish, am concerned about wrapping line around cables and pedals. Is a bow mount worth the significant extra expense over a transom mount? Appreciate any recommendations you can offer. Thanks in advance.

Hi John, I’ve used a 24V Minn Kota Autopilot model 824 for the last 2 years on a 14.5 ft aluminium boat with a 35hp motor. The 824 is 48lb thrust and has a remote electric foot control (wire). For flyfishing, a  bow mount with remote control is essential if you are fishing structure for bass etc as you seem to be doing, esp. if your fishing with a partner. You can put the foot control on the rear casting deck but still steer from the front. The auto pilot option keeps pointing to a fixed heading (even though the boat may be pivoting around it). For fly fishing, this option means if you hook a big one close to snags you can point the motor to power away from the snag and then fight the fish without needing to make any other adjustments to your course (you need to fish with someone set up with it to believe it). I may up-grade to the wireless remote version (easy to do) which will get rid of the control wire, but if I coil the wire up carefully it is only a small, fairly snag free obstruction. I got 24v in preference to 12v because 2 x 12v batteries in 24v draw less current than 2 x 12v batteries at 12v. Lower current draw gives higher efficiency (longer life). Let me know if you want more detail. Cheers John Knight Sydney Fly Rodders’

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Well, I spent about 4 years there and I found a plain small bright neon green plastic worm drove the small mouths wild. — Eric From the Grand Canyon State. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am going to Star Lake in the Adirondacks later this June.  Also will visit nearby Cranberry Lake.  Both are in the northeast corner of the Adirondacks.  I am told the most common catches are smallmouth bass and trout, with occasional rock bass as consolation. Any advice for these lakes?  How about nearly streams?  We will be both fly fishing and spinning.  What kinds of flies, lures, or live baits? Techniques? Many thanks! Michael

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I am going to Star Lake in the Adirondacks later this June.  Also will visit nearby Cranberry Lake.  Both are in the northeast corner of the Adirondacks.  I am told the most common catches are smallmouth bass and trout, with occasional rock bass as consolation. Any advice for these lakes?  How about nearly streams?  We will be both fly fishing and spinning.  What kinds of flies, lures, or live baits? Techniques? Many thanks! Michael

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Most of my fishing is done in the Adirondacks. I have a web site with lots of advice regarding lure selection. Check it out. Email me if you have any questions (remove the nospam in the address) Matthew Carter "Fishing with Matt" http://www.albany.net/~buzzbait/fishing/index.htm

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Anyone know of a site with a Loon call .wav file on it?  We are looking for one to put on a new fly fishing site. — Paul Phillips Director of Operations Fintastic Fish Mounts http://www.fintastic.com/ Remove the 1 for E-mail

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Anyone know of a site with a Loon call .wav file on it?  We are looking for one to put on a new fly fishing site.

The Roger Tory Peterson bird watching CD (Houghton Mifflin) has good recordings of bird calls: copyright of course. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Anyone know of a site with a Loon call .wav file on it?  We are looking for one to put on a new fly fishing site. Not .wav but I have had a *.au loon call at my fishing page for years. See:  http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~powlesla/personal/fishing/

… you post this and suddenly Tim’s back! He heard it, he heard it! Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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Anyone know of a site with a Loon call .wav file on it?  We are looking for one to put on a new fly fishing site. Not .wav but I have had a *.au loon call at my fishing page for years. See:  http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~powlesla/personal/fishing/

Why on earth would anyone want a recorded Loon call?  I spent more weekends than I care to remember in the BWCA as a kid with my Dad getting eaten alive by blackflies, having to endure the never-ending Loon calls.   Oh the Loons were pretty cool for the first couple seasons, but after One swam by our tent one night, and cut loose about 30 feet from it.   That’ll turn you off to Loons in a real hurry, believe you me.  Right up there with seagulls (read: skyrats), Gray Jays, and whip-poor-wills. BTW:  I NEVER liked the Blackflies. </chaz

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My wife usually says…… =8^)

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will be in outer banks for the thanksgiving holidays.. would like to find small  blues etc.. any recommendations would help.. also is there the possibility of  a trout stream near that area.. Kevin

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will be in outer banks for the thanksgiving holidays.. would like to find small blues etc.. any recommendations would help.. also is there the possibility of a trout stream near that area.. Kevin

At Thanksgiving there should be some small blues about but what about the big boiyz!  they are going to be there at that time.  AS wellas striped bass and red drum.  There will be plenty of trout, speckled sea trout, at the lighthouse for a person fishing a clouser minnow with a sinking line. No streams within 8 hour drive, sorry.  Check my website for NC flyfishing stuff. — Flyfish NC                                                   Gordon Churchill                                        http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/3853                                                                     Dragon’s Hope Publishing Heidi Dragon Churchill                                               Business cards, ad design, forms and all manner of desktop publishing.      

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I just moved to Los Angeles and I’m desperately looking for some rivers to fish on the weekends. If anyone could suggest some rivers to check out, I would greatly appreciate any help. Thank you, Brian

Check out Sespe Creek behind Ventura.  Fishermen’s Spot in Van Nuys can direct you.  Surf fishing for perch ani’t to bad either…

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I just moved to Los Angeles and I’m desperately looking for some rivers to fish on the weekends. If anyone could suggest some rivers to check out, I would greatly appreciate any help. Thank you, Brian

  You might try looking at the downey fly fishers page http://www.pacificnet.net/~jas/dff.htm they have monthly trips and fish reports that can be helpful john aydelotte

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just moved to Los Angeles and I’m desperately looking for some rivers to fish on the weekends. If anyone could suggest some rivers to check out, I would greatly appreciate any help. Thank you, Brian   You might try looking at the downey fly fishers page http://www.pacificnet.net/~jas/dff.htm they have monthly trips and fish reports that can be helpful john aydelotte

There are atleast six trout streams that are less than a two hour drive from downtown LA, that have sections where wild trout are protected by special regulations. Regulations vary, but typically include, artifical lures, barbless hooks, and 2 to 0 take limits, on the protected portions of the streams.  The fish are typically not very large but suprisingly, abundant, and do take flies. There are also many lesser known spots without special regulations hidden away in the mountains arround LA. The protected streams I am refering to are: Bear Creek, Deep Creek, Piru Creek, San Antonio Creek, Sespe Creek, and the West Fork of the San Gabriel River. These are typically, small streams with alot of tree cover. But each one offers more fishing that you can cover in a day. Unlike the streams in the sierras, these streams are open to fishing year round. There are FFF clubs all arround the LA area, you might want to check out the one in your area. — David V. Green WWW.GreenFly Culver City,  CA

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I just moved to Los Angeles and I’m desperately looking for some rivers to fish on the weekends. If anyone could suggest some rivers to check out, I would greatly appreciate any help. Thank you, Brian

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That should be a great time to fish the ‘Horn and it’s not that far of a drive from Denver.

Out west, "not that far of a drive" means you can get there in a day. The Bighorn is at least an 8 hour drive from Denver, probably closer to 10.  It’s a fine river, but a 3 day trip would mean 2 long days of driving for a single day of fishing, on a river where wade access is VERY limited. Also, the Bighorn doesn’t have a true "runoff" period, but the flows can and do go up considerably during May and June, making it that much harder to wade. Any decent fly (or tackle) shop in Denver should be able to direct you to something much closer.  There are plenty of lakes and tailwaters a couple hours’ away from Denver that should be fine. CQ

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That should be a great time to fish the ‘Horn and it’s not that far of a drive from Denver. I will be in Denver May 20th for 5 days,  where could I drive to for fishing not blown out by run off.  Any ideas??? You’ll need a very fast car to get you up to Montana and back and to throw in some fishing if ya only have 5 days…nearest fishing in MT would be the Big Horn..and it might not be "blown out"

– Brian D. Nelson, Missoula, Montana Montana Flyfishing and Hunting Outfitter http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm http://www.montana.com/dno/hunt.htm

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: I will be in Denver May 20th for 5 days,  where could I drive to for : fishing not blown out by run off.  Any ideas??? The southern hemisphere? — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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: I will be in Denver May 20th for 5 days,  where could I drive to for : fishing not blown out by run off.  Any ideas???

Go to the Platte River Cemetery at Deckers which is Tailwater below the dam.  There is also South Park.  Better you than me.  I hope you have a good time. Mr. G.

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I will be in Denver May 20th for 5 days,  where could I drive to for fishing not blown out by run off.  Any ideas???

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I will be in Denver May 20th for 5 days,  where could I drive to for fishing not blown out by run off.  Any ideas???

You’ll need a very fast car to get you up to Montana and back and to throw in some fishing if ya only have 5 days…nearest fishing in MT would be the Big Horn..and it might not be "blown out"

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Wow! George and Tim-Bone have done it time and time again. Lets give each other a chance. I believe they are good folks, but haven’t met either. I have never fished a nymph, but tied a few. I’ve fished worms, soft shelled crabs, minnows, etc. when I was little and didnt know about fly fishing. At the age of 12 I mowed lawns to earn $12 for my first fly rod, a bamboo, and still have it. One of my most enjoyable times was in Wisconsin Muskie fishing. Another was on the Mc Kinzie in Qregon with my wife. The Muskie fishing was with live shiners and the Oregon trip was dry flies. A point I would like to make about fishing is that it isn’t what you use that memories are made of it is the stream, lake, fish caught (kept or released) and the _moment_ of excitement at the time. What you used doesn’t matter, it is the memory that you will keep. So let’s give some slack to the folks who use INDICATORS, droppers or otherwise, and remember the memories. keep ‘em dry lukn4fish Bob Madden San Jose, Ca

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow! George and Tim-Bone have done it time and time again. Lets give each other a chance. I believe they are good folks, but haven’t met either. snip A point I would like to make about fishing is that it isn’t what you use that memories are made of it is the stream, lake, fish caught (kept or released) and the _moment_ of excitement at the time. What you used doesn’t matter, it is the memory that you will keep. So let’s give some slack to the folks who use INDICATORS, droppers or otherwise, and remember the memories. keep ‘em dry lukn4fish Bob Madden San Jose, Ca

And don’t forget the enjoyment fishing with the right partner can add. Steve

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You had better be careful…your post sounds an awful lot like good, old, common sense…something that is often missing from some of the rhetoric I see in this group.  Ever think of applying for a moderators position? JIM WARD

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Good comments!  It’s really about how you internalize the experience, not so much the tools that you use. -Burton (p.s., I love the McKenzie) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow! George and Tim-Bone have done it time and time again. Lets give each other a chance. I believe they are good folks, but haven’t met either. I have never fished a nymph, but tied a few. I’ve fished worms, soft shelled crabs, minnows, etc. when I was little and didnt know about fly fishing. At the age of 12 I mowed lawns to earn $12 for my first fly rod, a bamboo, and still have it. One of my most enjoyable times was in Wisconsin Muskie fishing. Another was on the Mc Kinzie in Qregon with my wife. The Muskie fishing was with live shiners and the Oregon trip was dry flies. A point I would like to make about fishing is that it isn’t what you use that memories are made of it is the stream, lake, fish caught (kept or released) and the _moment_ of excitement at the time. What you used doesn’t matter, it is the memory that you will keep. So let’s give some slack to the folks who use INDICATORS, droppers or otherwise, and remember the memories. keep ‘em dry lukn4fish Bob Madden San Jose, Ca

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Has nay of the national magazines had any reports about whirling disease? about eating Great Lakes fish. "In-Fisherman" provided some in-depth coverage, and was rewarded with the loss of over $250K of advertising revenue. "Outdoor Life", knowing which side its bread was buttered on, published a blistering editorial calling the advisory 16 kinds of crap. No loss of advertising for these pillars of journalistic integrity

  This may be true in the case of Outdoor Life, but not in the case of Fly Fisherman. I have been in touch with Dave Engerbretson, who often contributes to this group, and he informs me that John Randolph and John Holt are not only aware of the whirling disease issue, but are preparing a story. Keep in mind that glossy magazines are usually layed out and printed 3 or so issues in advance, and that the Madison River story broke less than a month ago. Why the Colorado story hasn’t received more press is a mystery. But it soon will.   Tim Walker recently sent me a zeroxed/faxed copy of an article that appeared in the Angling Report, summarizing recent whirling disease developments in Colorado. The news is very bad. Taken at face value, it appears there has been *no* natural reproduction of Rainbows, for three seasons now, in parts of the Colorado, Gunnison, South Platte and Arkansas rivers. How do *you* define disaster? The only good news I have heard yet, is that Cutthroats and Brookies are somewhat resistant, at least by comparison with Rainbows. —

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Peter – I suspect that you will get several responses to your post, and certainly some that are more scientific than I can be, so I will just reply briefly.  If, for some reason, you don’t get a fuller reply, send me a post and I will send more information. First, the disease is a neurological disorder that affects the fish’s system and causes it to swim in circles (thusthe name).   the fis weaken and ultimately fal prey to predators or other disease.  the disease is of no danger to humans if the fish are eaten.  there is not cure and probably got ito the Madison River from illegal stocking.  It can be transmitted on fishing gear, so there is a real risk of it spreading to other rivers. It is a very bad situation, but fortunatley does not affect the brown trout. The rainbow are most susceptible. again, if you do not get a better scientific description, let me know.  I have some materials that I can use to compose a longer post.                                               Dallas, TX                                               Ennis, MT

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This is far from scientific, but as far as I understand whirling disease, it’s parasitic infestation (whether a protozoan or worm, or other loathsome critter, I’m not sure) which lodges in the nerve/spinal column of the fish.  The beasties keep eating their way through (right into the brain, I’ve heard) until the fish is neurological/mental invalid.  The effect is particularly pronounced in fry and parr, leading to the classic symtpoms of swimming in erratic circles or "whirling."  By the time things get to that point, the fish is defenseless.  I’m not sure about the propagation cycle of the parasite. I think that it can be spread by ingestion, so if an adult gobbles up a fry that is addled with the disease, the parasite can spread to the adult.  What I do not remember is how the parasite propagates once the host is dead, assuming something does not ingest it. I do recall that on avergage 10% of a population will not be affected by the disease, but they could be carriers. It can strike older fish as well, but it takes much longer.  One reason the disease is particularly insidious (sp?) is that we notice the adults for the most part.  By the time an adult in the population is diagonosed with the condition, you’ve got one hell of a problem because odds are the disease has spread through the population.  The truly horrific part of it is that it tends to wipe out whole year classes, with a disproportionate effect on the fry and par.  So, if you you start seeing adults with the condition, the younger year classes, and therefore future populations, may be in very serious trouble. The spread of the disease is increases with higher water temperatures because the beasties become more active.  Last I heard, once there is an infestation, there is very little that can be done other than killing off the host population.  I don’t know if that is true. Illegally stocked fish are likely a principal source, but I don’t know how the parasite gets into the hatchery in the first instance. Rainbows are very susceptible.  Browns are not.  The disease is European and so are browns, who have developed a restisance.  So, expect to see a much higher percentage of browns caught on the Madison. That’s what I’ve heard, for what it’s worth.  If there’s a fisheries biologist out there, please set this straight if it’s wrong.  I hope I’m wrong about some of the nastier aspects, because it sounds like rather like a fish version of bubonic plague. John C. Crow

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I lived for 5 years in Bozeman in the 1980’s and loved fishing the Madison when I could.  I have just heard about this "whirling disease" phenomenon.  Can someone explain in a bit of scientific detail what it is?

For more than you probably want to know, search the Flyfishing archive at www.adp.unc.edu/cgi-bin/wais-flyfish-q using "whirling" as a key word. Phil Holt

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I’m not sure what this article stated, but I received a release from the New York DEC a couple of months ago indicating that Whirling disease had contaminated a hatchery in NY State. I don’t think many fish with Whirling disease were stocked, but it wiped out an entire hatchery. Forgive my ‘net ignorance; this information is certainly timely and quite important, so I’m willing to risk a little self-dignity to keep everyone informed. See you on the rivers! Dennis Suler, Jr Hackettstown, NJ Forbes Newspapers

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Whirlings disease is caused by a protozoan, that eats the cartilage around the equilibrium center in the fish.  It is deadly to fry and small fish, as stated before, but seems to have no effect on older fish.  If an older fish had it when it was young, you will often times find a sunken cranium, or deformed back.  Young fish that are infected often times also have a black tail.  Their is NO cure for it and the only way to get rid of it is to kill all the fish, sterilize (with some really potent chemicals) and start over, not a good thing for a stream, but it is required when a hatchery gets it.  Brown trout are susseptible to it, but they seem to have a better genetic defense of it, so it doean’t show up much in them. I hope this helps, I am not a fish biologist, but studiing to become one, I recently became interested in whirlings disease due to the outbreak of it in CO. Feel free to reply to me via email. Kevin — | ALL opinions |    OF COURSE I DID IT IN COLD BLOOD…..     | are mine,    |            I’M A POIKILOTHERM | Nobody else  |                                Kevin Case

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I lived for 5 years in Bozeman in the 1980’s and loved fishing the Madison when I could.  I have just heard about this "whirling disease" phenomenon.  Can someone explain in a bit of scientific detail what it is?

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The only good news I have heard yet, is that Cutthroats and Brookies are somewhat resistant, at least by comparison with Rainbows. —

At the fly fishing show in New Jersey, Gary LaFontaine listed a hierarchy of the suseptability to all trout, I cannot remember it exactly but I do remember that Rainbow was number one, and lake trout were at the bottom, I believe unaffected totally.                                         Brian

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Could somebody please give me a short summary, what whirling disease is and how it affects fish and people eating them? (Btw, I am on good terms with biology, so it can be a rather scienific explanation) Thanx, or "Vielen Dank", as we Austrians put it,                                                 Peter

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Tom Fry writes that it is not likely that the national magazines will publish  anything on the whirling disease because of the risk of loss of advertising. Tom = I think that you are wrong on this because the problem has already gotten a lot of national press.  But your scepticism is not without foundation. I suggest that if we do not see any articles in the next couple of editions of FF and Fly Rod & Reel, for example, we ought to beseige them with letters demanding attention to the problem.                                               Dallas, TX                                               Ennis, MT

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Has nay of the national magazines had any reports about whirling disease?

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re: WHIRLING DISEASE… Excellent summary in compuserve fishing library. I could fax it too you if you like…

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Has nay of the national magazines had any reports about whirling disease?

about eating Great Lakes fish. "In-Fisherman" provided some in-depth coverage, and was rewarded with the loss of over $250K of advertising revenue. "Outdoor Life", knowing which side its bread was buttered on, published a blistering editorial calling the advisory 16 kinds of crap. No loss of advertising for these pillars of journalistic integrity — 3798 Woodland Drive     (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC

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