Question:

Is there any small lake fish that cannot be successfully and easily caught with a hook, worm and bobber? I ask this because I am amazed at how much stuff I have to catch bass/muskie/northern etc. that often gets no hits whatsoever, but a meaty nightcrawler almost always sinks the bobber within a few minutes and it’s anyone’s guss what will be pulled out of the water.  I have also noticed that a yellow or green 1-2" curly tail on a jig is almost as good. I am getting tempted to leave my tackle box at home and just bring a small pocket sized box with me containing several hooks, bobbers, plastic curltails in various colors/sizes and jigs. Today I went canoe fishing on Hooker Lake in Kenosha, WI.  I used a 3" floating rapala, a floating frog(green and white), a silver shad colored slug-go fished near top and near bottom, a 4" semi transparent minnow looking thing at all depths, a realistic looking and scented plastic worm about 6"(after a while I even tipped the hook with a real wax worm) and a smallish spinner bait.  I tried every type of presentation I could think of. I fished shallow, I fished deep.  I fished weeds, I fished docks, I fished every bit of structure I could find, I fished open water. I caught nothing for 5 hours, not even a little hit. I saw some guy go out onto his pier in his back yard, throw a nightcrawler/bobber rig into the water and figured he was panfishing. Within 30 seconds he pulled out what had to have been a 20+ inch bass.  I was jealous.  He didn’t even look excited about it, like he was used to this sort of thing. I switched to nightcrawler and bobber. I caught perch, bluegill, bass, an impressively large shad, and almost got into the boat what looked to be a sub legal size northern (don’t know what he was doing in hooker lake.)  all within the 90 minutes I had left before I had to head in. Anyone else feel my pain? — Dave A

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Sorry Dave, no pain felt here.  You were versitile enough to change when you saw someone else catching fish on something you knew caught fish, and you adapted.  Good job…next time, throw out a rod with live bait, and fish with a lure simultaneously, and perhaps the combo rigging will tell you sooner, which presentation they prefer.  Keep at it. — "Mad-Mikey"  At first, fishing and hunting were just hobbies,              then they became addictions taking all my time              and money. If they ever find a cure for these              sicknesses—   I’m refusing treatment. Before you buy.

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Hi Dave! I am mainly a fly fisherman.  I had not dunked a worm since I was about 14… 20+ years ago.  For the past two weeks I have been messing around with worms and I’m having a ball!  I’ve caught walleye, catfish, various panfish and my first ever large mouth bass and drum. Good luck! — Fritz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there any small lake fish that cannot be successfully and easily caught with a hook, worm and bobber? I ask this because I am amazed at how much stuff I have to catch bass/muskie/northern etc. that often gets no hits whatsoever, but a meaty nightcrawler almost always sinks the bobber within a few minutes and it’s anyone’s guss what will be pulled out of the water.  I have also noticed that a yellow or green 1-2" curly tail on a jig is almost as good. I am getting tempted to leave my tackle box at home and just bring a small pocket sized box with me containing several hooks, bobbers, plastic curltails in various colors/sizes and jigs. Today I went canoe fishing on Hooker Lake in Kenosha, WI.  I used a 3" floating rapala, a floating frog(green and white), a silver shad colored slug-go fished near top and near bottom, a 4" semi transparent minnow looking thing at all depths, a realistic looking and scented plastic worm about 6"(after a while I even tipped the hook with a real wax worm) and a smallish spinner bait.  I tried every type of presentation I could think of. I fished shallow, I fished deep.  I fished weeds, I fished docks, I fished every bit of structure I could find, I fished open water. I caught nothing for 5 hours, not even a little hit. I saw some guy go out onto his pier in his back yard, throw a nightcrawler/bobber rig into the water and figured he was panfishing. Within 30 seconds he pulled out what had to have been a 20+ inch bass.  I was jealous.  He didn’t even look excited about it, like he was used to this sort of thing. I switched to nightcrawler and bobber. I caught perch, bluegill, bass, an impressively large shad, and almost got into the boat what looked to be a sub legal size northern (don’t know what he was doing in hooker lake.)  all within the 90 minutes I had left before I had to head in. Anyone else feel my pain? — Dave A

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Question:

I’ve used numerous patterns for sockeye over the years and allways seem to end up tying versions of the boss in orange or chartreuse. I’m curious if anyone else has a favorite pattern for Alaska sockeye. DanO

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 Not Dan, but Steve.  Sorry for the mix-up.

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I’ve used numerous patterns for sockeye over the years and allways seem to end up tying versions of the boss in orange or chartreuse. I’m curious if anyone else has a favorite pattern for Alaska sockeye. DanO

Dan?  Try a white bellied Streamer with a LIGHT BLUE over back with just a couple of strands of pearl crystal hair along the sides.  I tie these using Fish-Fuzz and they are deadly on ALL salmon types in Alaska because of the sea minnows this streamer pattern represents in the Gulf of Alaska. http://www.gink.com/products/gg_fishfuzz.html I never go to Alaska without a set of these or a variety of streamers.  These streamers are best on Sockeye just before they enter the streams.  Actually, once you’re fishing in the rivers with them packed in, it doesn’t matter much what you use.  You can almost forget about matching anything at all.  Just drift something among those nasty tempered rascals and you will wish you had not. For sake of good order, look between the voids for the big rainbows that are feeding on salmon eggs.  It takes some doing to get used to seeing them because they blend so well against the gravel.  This is where drifting a tied salmon egg fly works well.  But you can have even greater sport on these rainbows which grow to large sizes. Just remember this.  If it wasn’t for the protein rich salmon egges that a great number just wash away, Alaskan Rainbows wouldn’t be growing that big nor would the grayling.  Salmon eggs are a great source of food for aquatic life in this area. You are going to have fun. Mr. G.

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Question:

Will be in PNG for Nov/Dec, anyone have any info or URLs for flyfishing there ? Thanks, Mick

Response:

Mick, Nov-Dec will be rainy season – depending on where abouts you are and it might reduce for options for tangling with nugini bass and black bass. Dean guides there and pioneered many locations in PNG for black bass etc. and has many friends there. Regards John Knight Sydney Fly Rodders’

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Question:

I am looking for a lightweight single canoe for fly fishing.  Any recommendations? THANKS

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I caught one last week with a Shakespear floating line rig. I am sorry to say that the sucker wiggled away when he paddled backwards and I wasn’t expecting it. Chuck Creekmore – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for a lightweight single canoe for fly fishing.  Any recommendations? THANKS

Response:

Paul An excellent boat for fly fishing would be a Pungo made by Wilderness Systems.  This is actually a recreational kayak but is real stable and many fly fisherman swear by them. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for a lightweight single canoe for fly fishing.  Any recommendations? THANKS

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Paul, Check out Mohawk canoes – the Solo model looks great to me. Also – the Old Town Pack may work for you – perhps it may be more stable for fly fishing than the Mohawk Solo. I haven’t paddled either, though am trying to, and considering one of them for purchase. Good luck!! Lou – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for a lightweight single canoe for fly fishing.  Any recommendations? THANKS

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Try a Mohawk 14′ Challenger, lts a good boat to fish out of and you can even do some whitewater in it. I got one and I like it.

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Sawyer makes a nice 13′ solo boat that would work well.  They make it in several layups.  The least expensive layup is the Solo 13 which is the heaviest layup at 46 pounds but is the cheapest listing at $575.  The same boat in kevlar or a lighter fiberglass layup is called the Classic.  I own a Solo 13.  It is a nice paddling solo.  It was designed by the same guy that designed the Wildfire/Flashfire and Starfire for Bell.  The Bell boats are beautiful but more expensive.  The Flashfire looks to be a refined Solo 13 that has been designed for a little more experienced paddler and would have a little higher performance with the sacrafice of a little of the initial stability.

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Question:

        I got tired of catching the regular fish we had around here so I asked a friend what we could do about getting in some different species. He said that he had been to Arkansas and up there they planted trout. I called the Fish and Game people and they were more than happy to send me some baby rainbows. Now, here’s the problem….         I keep planting them and they keep dying. I asked my buddy about it and he thinks we’re planting them too deep. My thought is…maybe our soil ain’t right. ps. Would fish meal be a good fertilizer? Why aren’t you fishing? Da’ Capt

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YOU GOT IT RIGHT!  They are definitely planted too deep.  Also, maybe browns would work better? Ed BTW – forget it!

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All hatchery trout should be planted, preferably in dirt. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – YOU GOT IT RIGHT!  They are definitely planted too deep.  Also, maybe browns would work better? Ed BTW – forget it!

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Are you planting the heads UP or DOWN ???? Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         I got tired of catching the regular fish we had around here so I asked a friend what we could do about getting in some different species. He said that he had been to Arkansas and up there they planted trout. I called the Fish and Game people and they were more than happy to send me some baby rainbows. Now, here’s the problem….         I keep planting them and they keep dying. I asked my buddy about it and he thinks we’re planting them too deep. My thought is…maybe our soil ain’t right. ps. Would fish meal be a good fertilizer? Why aren’t you fishing? Da’ Capt

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s a funny thing about fly patterns, the interest in them seem cyclic. The picket pin was a popular pattern when I was just getting started as a fly fisherman back the early 50s. Then interest faded, you didn’t see on many fly lists or in many catalogs. Now its becoming more prominent again. I had an interesting experience with an other old attractor pattern a few years back. I started tying a pattern know as the house & lot variant. I first used it as a kid, It was Ike’s favorite fly, and as such was fairly well known at the time. I started tying it just as an exercise, not expecting to use it much. Well you know the rest of the story it turned out to a deadly pattern for larger brown trout, particularly at dusk. My fishing buddy and I were having a great time with this fly and to keep it secret we only referred to it as the "Ike fly" around other anglers. Well after awhile someone figured it out and for a couple of years it had a small following in this area. for what ever reason after awhile it quit producing like it did at first and interest wane. You don’t see it in many fly boxes anymore. Last year I dusted off an other old forgotten fly and it looks like its going to be another winner, at least for a while. Which leads me to ask this question: by practicing catch and release are we educating the trout? God I hope so! Here to the tough ones, the one that teach us something! I was wondering why some fly patterns seem to only have a following in specific areas of the country.  Obviously some patterns imitate forage specific to certain geographic areas, however some patterns seemingly utilized almost exclusively in the Northeast (VT, NE, Northern NY) seem impressionistic enough to work nearly anywhere.  For example the Picket Pin and ‘88′ streamer.  I haven’t had the opportunity to travel extensively to fish destinations far removed from my native central New York, however I have had good success with these patterns as far south as the Savage and Gunpowder rivers in Maryland. Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on the subject. Furthermore am I missing out on any interesting local patterns from other areas of the country. Any info and/or recipes appreciated. Thanks in advance and good fishing C. Segina

   Its funny that you talk about the h & l variant as i call it because out here in Colorado it’s a very popular fly.  in fact it’s one of my favorite to tie and fish.  I didn’t know the history behind it and that’s very interesting. fly patterns are very interesting and sometimes entertaining to hear the stories behing them and the way their popularity changes over time.

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It’s a funny thing about fly patterns, the interest in them seem cyclic. The picket pin was a popular pattern when I was just getting started as a fly fisherman back the early 50s. Then interest faded, you didn’t see on many fly lists or in many catalogs. Now its becoming more prominent again. I had an interesting experience with an other old attractor pattern a few years back. I started tying a pattern know as the house & lot variant. I first used it as a kid, It was Ike’s favorite fly, and as such was fairly well known at the time. I started tying it just as an exercise, not expecting to use it much. Well you know the rest of the story it turned out to a deadly pattern for larger brown trout, particularly at dusk. My fishing buddy and I were having a great time with this fly and to keep it secret we only referred to it as the "Ike fly" around other anglers. Well after awhile someone figured it out and for a couple of years it had a small following in this area. for what ever reason after awhile it quit producing like it did at first and interest wane. You don’t see it in many fly boxes anymore. Last year I dusted off an other old forgotten fly and it looks like its going to be another winner, at least for a while. Which leads me to ask this question: by practicing catch and release are we educating the trout? God I hope so! Here to the tough ones, the one that teach us something! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was wondering why some fly patterns seem to only have a following in specific areas of the country.  Obviously some patterns imitate forage specific to certain geographic areas, however some patterns seemingly utilized almost exclusively in the Northeast (VT, NE, Northern NY) seem impressionistic enough to work nearly anywhere.  For example the Picket Pin and ‘88′ streamer.  I haven’t had the opportunity to travel extensively to fish destinations far removed from my native central New York, however I have had good success with these patterns as far south as the Savage and Gunpowder rivers in Maryland. Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on the subject.  Furthermore am I missing out on any interesting local patterns from other areas of the country. Any info and/or recipes appreciated. Thanks in advance and good fishing C. Segina

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I was wondering why some fly patterns seem to only have a following in specific areas of the country.  Obviously some patterns imitate forage specific to certain geographic areas, however some patterns seemingly utilized almost exclusively in the Northeast (VT, NE, Northern NY) seem impressionistic enough to work nearly anywhere.  For example the Picket Pin and ‘88′ streamer.  I haven’t had the opportunity to travel extensively to fish destinations far removed from my native central New York, however I have had good success with these patterns as far south as the Savage and Gunpowder rivers in Maryland. Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on the subject.  Furthermore am I missing out on any interesting local patterns from other areas of the country. Any info and/or recipes appreciated. Thanks in advance and good fishing C. Segina

Response:

I was wondering why some fly patterns seem to only have a following in specific areas of the country.  Obviously some patterns imitate forage specific to certain geographic areas, however some patterns seemingly utilized almost exclusively in the Northeast (VT, NE, Northern NY) seem impressionistic enough to work nearly anywhere.  For example the Picket Pin and ‘88′ streamer.  I

Quite possibly every new pattern that aims at exact imitation starts as a "regional" pattern, so far as what it imitates lives in some places and not others.  E.g. cress bugs were invented by Pennsylvania tyers for Pennsylvania streams, even though you can find crustacea everywhere that look like them. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Question:

I don’t want to spend $3.50 and up for Clousers (via Orvis or my local shop) and while LL Bean’s got em for $2.25 or so (much more in line), they don’t sell them in 1/0, which is pretty much the size I want.  So, does anyone know a good mailorder source for Clousers at a reasonable price? Thanks!

My friend Jim Dionne at Dirigo Flies says he can help you out, and hit your price range Give him a call at (800) 893-2815 tell him you’re the guy from the internet I told him about.                                         jc

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while LL Bean’s got em for $2.25 or so (much more in line), they don’t sell them in 1/0, which is pretty much the size I want.  So, does anyone know a good mailorder source for Clousers at a reasonable price? Thanks!

Yes I do!  But they only have 2/0, 2, and 6 ($2.25), and the 2/0 only in chartreuse and white (which by the way is my favorite saltwater color!). They are the Fly Fishing Shop in Welches Oregon.  They have a wonderful web site at www.teleport.com/~flyfish  Their number is 503-622-4607. They are pleasure to deal with long distance, and I’m willing to bet they can get you what you want in any color with a little advance notice.  Good luck! Phil

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while LL Bean’s got em for $2.25 or so (much more in line), they don’t sell them in 1/0, which is pretty much the size I want.  So, does anyone know a good mailorder source for Clousers at a reasonable price? Thanks! Yes I do!  But they only have 2/0, 2, and 6 ($2.25), and the 2/0 only in chartreuse and white (which by the way is my favorite saltwater color!). They are the Fly Fishing Shop in Welches Oregon.  They have a wonderful web site at www.teleport.com/~flyfish  Their number is 503-622-4607. They are pleasure to deal with long distance, and I’m willing to bet they can get you what you want in any color with a little advance notice.  Good luck! Phil

I have an on line catalog and have the Clousers in any size and color that you want. You can see my catalog at http://www.surfsouth.com/~jbranham/retailcatalog.html

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I don’t want to spend $3.50 and up for Clousers (via Orvis or my local shop) and while LL Bean’s got em for $2.25 or so (much more in line), they don’t sell them in 1/0, which is pretty much the size I want.  So, does anyone know a good mailorder source for Clousers at a reasonable price? Thanks!

Hello- This is probably not what you want to here, but… I would suggest learning to tie them yourself. Clousers are extremely easy to tie and the materials are cheap. I am not a very fast tyer, and I just turned out 10 in the last hour. I tied them on 3/0 for salt water use (Mustad 3407 hooks at about $7/100). That way you can tie them in any size or color combo you want. Even if you don’t tie now with just a few very basic lessons you can tie clousers. Good Luck! Steve Rosenblum

Response:

I don’t want to spend $3.50 and up for Clousers (via Orvis or my local shop) and while LL Bean’s got em for $2.25 or so (much more in line), they don’t sell them in 1/0, which is pretty much the size I want.  So, does anyone know a good mailorder source for Clousers at a reasonable price? Thanks!

Response:

I don’t want to spend $3.50 and up for Clousers (via Orvis or my local shop) and while LL Bean’s got em for $2.25 or so (much more in line), they don’t sell them in 1/0, which is pretty much the size I want.  So, does anyone know a good mailorder source for Clousers at a reasonable price? Thanks!

Try to get a second hand vice and tie your own. They are the most simple saltwater fly to tie and you can make a hundred for what it costs to buy ten at Orvis prices. Get the cheapest vice you can find at first and THEN decide if you want to keep tying. If so, consider the best vice you can afford and prepare yourself for the plethora of tying materials you will want to buy along with the books, videos and CD-ROMs you will get to learn how to tie. Good Luck,         jmc

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Question:

MY WIFE AND I ARE PLANNING TO DO SOME BACK PACKING IN THE SIERRAS-FROM THE BAY AREA.  WE WANT TO DO SOME ICE OUT FLY FISHING AND ARE LOOKING FOR SOME RECOMENDATIONS FOR REMOTE AND PRODUCTIVE WATERS.  ANY OFFERINGS WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED.  ALSO, RECOMMENDED PATTERNS ARE ALWAYS WELCOME.  SEE YOU ON THE RIVER!   MARTIN

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Check out Ralph Cutters book–it is outstanding.  Let me know if you hear anything else.  Looking forward to spring thaw this year as well!!! Aaron

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Question:

Does any organization or book publish a national or regional list of fishing outfitters (looking for all types, fly, deep sea, etc.)? Thanks in advance for your help. Dennis Galotti

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You will find some outfitters in Outdoors Online, this is a web site located at http://www.wsa.com/ool/ool1home.html… hope this helps FishNews (World of Fishing at www.fishingworld.com)

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Question:

| The last couple of years I have become more and more keen on fly | fishing after trout. My experience with fishing wet, dry and streamer | flies is good, but when it comes to using nymph flies I have not been | very successful. | | Several have told me how enjoyable and efficient nymphing can be but | I have yet to experience this. | | I dont think this have anything to do with the patterns I have used | as I have tried out several different ones at several occasions. | I rather suspect my lack of success is due to the fact that my | techniques using nymph flies needs improvements. | | So, anybody out there who are having success with nymphing, please | share your techniques with us who dont. | | Terje |         I have been nymph fishing reasonably successfully for about 10 years , although last year I did not have as much success as previous years, I dont know why. I will share my "rules" for nymphing.                 1) Make sure that your nymph is in a dead drift without                 too much slack in your line. Since you cannot see the nymph,                 the determination of whether you are doing this right is many                 times based on where you cast and the feel of the line when                 you pick it up. This part is the hardest to get right.                 2) I generally cast upstream and do not let it drift too far                 downstream from me. Others may certainly use different                                  techniques here.                 3) Use a visible indicator and SET THE HOOK on anything that                 even slightly resembles a strike. 90% of the time it will                 not be a fish, but you never know.                 4) If you are not occasionally hanging up on the bottom, and                 if you are not catching fish, then put more weight on.                 5) Set the hook everytime you pick up your line for another                 cast. I have caught many fish this way and missed many when                 I haven’t followed this rule.                 6) If all else fails–use smaller nymphs.               Nymphing is hard, and its really not as much fun as dry fly fishing ( in my opinion anyways), but it can be very productive. Good luck, Dan

Response:

The last couple of years I have become more and more keen on fly fishing after trout. My experience with fishing wet, dry and streamer flies is good, but when it comes to using nymph flies I have not been very successful.

In a lake ? fast stream ? or slow deep pools? Several have told me how enjoyable and efficient nymphing can be but I have yet to experience this.

I have read that fully 50% of all takes on a nymph go undetected by the fisherman — probably true. It took several months before I started to consistently catch fish on a nymph (fast streams and deep pools). Some people use a strike indicator- small float or adhesive foam pad. I don’t care for them. Instead I try to keep the line tight and watch for *any* deviation in the line movement (floating line). If the slows, speeds up or changes course in its drift I give a slight tug on the line. Be prepared to set the hook if there is any resistance at this point. Often there will be a good, solid  hit on the nymph at the end of its drift, as it starts to turn out in the current, so let it drift till then. If necessary weight the nymph to get it down to the fish. A split-shot about 8 inches above the nymph should do it. Nymphing in slow water is another deal- requires ’swiming’ the nymph through the pool. I haven’t done this so I can’t offer any advice. I dont think this have anything to do with the patterns I have used as I have tried out several different ones at several occasions.

I like very buggy patterns like the GR Hares Ear. I rather suspect my lack of success is due to the fact that my techniques using nymph flies needs improvements.

or just practice. Try setting the hook on the slightest deviation of the line float. Eventually you start responding preferentially to true takes So, anybody out there who are having success with nymphing, please share your techniques with us who dont. Terje

mike

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The last couple of years I have become more and more keen on fly fishing after trout. My experience with fishing wet, dry and streamer flies is good, but when it comes to using nymph flies I have not been very successful. Several have told me how enjoyable and efficient nymphing can be but I have yet to experience this. I dont think this have anything to do with the patterns I have used as I have tried out several different ones at several occasions. I rather suspect my lack of success is due to the fact that my techniques using nymph flies needs improvements. So, anybody out there who are having success with nymphing, please share your techniques with us who dont. Terje

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| | So, anybody out there who are having success with nymphing, please | share your techniques with us who dont. | | Terje | Step 1) Use a strike indicator until you develop the ability to detect strikes by subtle line motions or flashes. I prefer small flourescent corks that slide up/down the leader. They can be secured to the leader by the end of a toothpick. I usually use a 9 – 12 foot leader. Setp 2) Determine how deep the water is and position the strike indicator 1 1/2 times the water depth above the nymph. Step 3) Nymphing is easier if the water is flowing fast enough for you to approach within 15′ of the fish. FInd a stretch of water with moderate speed, preferably broken up with some boulders or structure. This is not necessary, but I find nymphing to be the easiest on pocket water and in medium speed water with lots of small holding pockets. The easiest depths to nymph are 1-4 feet. Two feet is about perfect. Step 4) Strip about ten feet of flyline off your reel so that you have about twenty feet or less of total line/leader. Setp 5) Flip the line/leader upstream at about a 45 degree angle. Try to have the nymph land downstream of the strike indicator. When the indicator hits the water, raise your rod tip to keep slack line off the water. Have the tip of your rod follow the strike indicator downstream. As the indicator passes you, begin to lower your rod,  feeding line towards the indicator to prolong a drag free drift. When your slack is exhausted, let the indicator sweep across the current until it is directly downstream of you. Start your next cast (or flip) from this position. If at any time during the drift, the indicator pauses, then raise the rod tip slightly, but quickly and feel for a fish. If it’s a fish, it will usually hook itself if you just raise the rod slowly. If upon raising the rod, slightly, you feel nothing, then lower the rod and continue the drift. The pauses of the indicator my be almost imperceptable, so keep your eyes glued to it, and react EVERYTIME it pauses or twitches. Step 5 is the crucial step, and I am not a good enough writer to explain it very well. It is imperative in nymphing that you 1) get as long of a drag free drift as possible.  2) Your nymph must be near the bottom of the stream. I find that I usually have to add a small split shot to get my nymph down quickly. It is better to use too much weight than not enough. Also, since you only need to flip your line, kind of like a roll cast, the split shot do not interfer with casting very much. 3) Be persistent. Fish an area thourghly. Drift the nymph through every pocket of water at least several times. Now, if I have thoroughly confused you, I recommend that you rent a video. There are probably some pretty good nymphing videos and I am sure that you will find them clearer. — The MacNeal-Schwendler Corporation – Bellevue, WA (All opinions expressed are my own and not my employers.)

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