Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Flyfishing » Does anyone here read these posts?

Does anyone here read these posts?

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cross posting is never OK. Why can’t we be left in peace? Those of us who are interested in discussions about Bush’s environmental policies are more than able to subscribe to rec.backcountry or whatever and join in. But when every morning seems to bring up more anti-Bush posts than anything else, it gets old. Thanks for letting me vent… Douglas- As a long time fence sitter I see Chaka and Tom Beno and Muskie as the only ones willing to counter an anti-environmental attack in They are all the same fuck-nut. Do you think posting crap anonymously and not even reading the follow ups is countering something? You must be fuck-nut number 4. I sleep well knowing that such shut-ins and agoraphobes have no bearing on the real world. —

Agoraphobes … interesting. I’d been thinking xenophobes. Thanks.

Response:

This is pretty funny Wolf, considering you like to prop yourself up on the lifeguard chair and look down on it all from above. You think you’re "above it all", yet in reality you are still in between the fences at the community pool. What a fool. You can blow the whistle, but your still a part of the routine.

On the contrary, my dear Bottom. Nothing could be further from my mind than staying "above it all". As a matter of fact, I dare say that a few over here in r.o.f.f. will recognize my name from my occasional participation in spirited discussions. Moreover, I’m the only person I know of who has gone on record as being a big fan of these cross posted threads for their entertainment value. That I don’t engage the gaggle of twits, gits, poltroons, and buffoons who so selflessly and gleefully and expose their appalling deficiencies more frequently should not be seen as a mark of disapproval, but rather a testament to my inability to add anything substantive to what is already a three ring circus of vacuousness, stunningly inappropriate vanity, and ignorance on a biblical scale. On the other hand, the tenor of the above quoted material and its significance will hardly be lost on the keen student, eh? :) Wolfgang oh, and it warn’t no dream.

Response:

In Outlook Express, Click on Message, then "Block Sender" Works a treat. — Peter Stockfeld Phone 0417 937 962 Fax 03 9682 0070

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I found a neat program that attaches itself to Outlook Express and allows you to block all emails and news group posts from any individual. You never know that they still exist. Wish I could find it to share with the rest of you. Muskie, Bitterroot and Rosco no longer exist!!! This rant brought to you by the DNC Hq. and should be viewed accordingly. LZ http://www.flyrodreel.com/conservation.html Water Wrongs The federal government is giving away our Western rivers By TED WILLIAMS ON SEPTEMBER 30, 2002, in a move that opened the way for irrigators and developers to desiccate trout streams all over the West, the Bush Administration abandoned a reserved federal water right to Colorado’s Gunnison River, one of the best trophy wild trout fisheries in America. Along with the water and fish, Bush and company also abandoned the National Park System, the National Wilderness System and all Americans who love nature, including sportsmen, most of whom supported Bush in the last election. "Sportsmen for Bush," read the bumper stickers. "I never understood [that] and still don’t," comments sportsman Mike Pennington on FR&R’s website bulletin board. But in this case at least, sportsmen have an excuse for being ill informed. The giveaway of the water right held by the Black Canyon of the Gunnison National Park was conducted entirely in secret. Because the issue was being debated in Colorado’s Water Court, the National Environmental Policy Act did not kick in. The federal government’s decision required neither public hearings nor public comment. The Bush administration just ordained that a national park established around a river and its canyon "to protect the roar of the river" didn’t need water. The Clinton administration had sought to protect the public’s water rights that the Bush administration is now ceding to Western states. For example, in January 2001, Clinton’s Park Service filed an application for a natural-flow regime (including a base flow of 300 cubic feet per second) through 14-mile- long Black Canyon of the Gunnison National Park. Western water rights are based on seniority, and the park–established in 1933 as a national monument and upgraded in 1999–had plenty of seniority. In 1978 that seniority and right were upheld by Colorado’s Water Court, which found that the purpose of the park "is to conserve and maintain in an unimpaired condition the scenic, aesthetic, natural and historic objects of the monument, as well as the wildlife therein, in order that the monument might provide a source of recreation and enjoyment for all generations of citizens of the United States." With that, the court directed the federal government to apply for the amount of water the park needed "within five years of final decree." But since the court didn’t get around to issuing a final decree, the five-year countdown never started, and the feds didn’t come up with flow figures until President Clinton was about to leave office. The park wanted to approximate the natural conditions that had existed in the river and its canyon before 1965. That was the year the Bureau of Reclamation shut the gates on its enormous Blue Mesa dam, which backs up a million-acre- foot reservoir for irrigation and power–the toilet tank of the three-dam Aspinall Unit, named for the crusty, dam-fixated, anti-environmental US congressman Wayne Aspinall, who funneled pork into the state from 1949 to 1973. The Park Service’s mission, after all, is to protect and recreate natural processes, and, wherever practical, let them "proceed unimpeded." When it is serious about this mission, as it was under the leadership of former Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt, it takes the long view. And the long view is this: For about 12 million years the Gunnison sliced down through soft volcanic and sedimentary rock. Then, two million years ago, it hit the much harder Precambrian gneiss of the Gunnison Uplift. Trapped in the canyon it had already excavated, the river began eating away this metamorphic layer at the approximate rate of the thickness of one human hair per year or one inch per century until, in places, it was 2,400 feet below the rim. When this ancient process was abruptly and unnaturally curtailed in 1965 bad things began to happen. An unnatural plant community sprang up along the bottom of the canyon, constricting the channel and quickening the flow. In the canyon and far downstream the annual production of large, woody debris, so critical for trout survival, ceased, and in its place came alien plants. Rubble, clay and sand– swept down from the side canyons by the flash floods of summer–began accumulating in the main channel. The spaces under cobbles and boulders– habitat for the salmonflies that comprise a huge part of the diet of Gunnison River trout–were cemented shut. Tubifex worms, which pass whirling disease to trout, proliferated in the sediments. The Colorado Division of Wildlife has just finished an electro-fishing survey of a two-mile stretch of river just below the park. In the late 1980s, before whirling disease showed up, this stretch held 12,000 wild rainbows over six inches, 2,000 of them between 16 and 22 inches. In 2002 it held 87. Browns evolved in Europe with whirling disease, so they can usually tolerate the parasite. But because browns require structure and slower flows than rainbows, they’ve not filled the vacant niche. Dr. Jack Stanford, professor of ecology at the University of Montana, grew up around the Black Canyon and has been studying its ecology since the mid 1970s. "The river hasn’t flushed well in a long time," he told me. "Because peak flows have been so badly curtailed we have large accumulations of organic matter in backwaters. If these backwaters are flushed regularly, groundwater moves up through the gravel bars to produce a real healthy food web and very important rearing areas for trout. The terrestrial vegetation also clogs the river, creating habitat not conducive to trout. And the vegetation narrows the channel so sandbars don’t form. When I was a kid the canyon had huge sandbars. Now they’re gone or covered with plants." The sandbars and backwaters that the Park Service had hoped to restore provided critical spawning and nursery habitat for four endangered fish that evolved with high spring flows–the humpback chub, razorback sucker, bonytail chub and Colorado pikeminnow (the new PC name for squawfish). Under the Endangered Species Act state and federal managers are mandated to protect the habitat of threatened and endangered species, but the Bush administration has decided to ignore its legal responsibilities. AFTER EXTENSIVE RESEARCH, park officials applied for a year-round minimum flow of 300 cubic feet per second (cfs), shoulder flows (an average in wet years) of 800 cfs for 80 days and a one-day scouring flow of between 2,000 and 12,000 cfs, depending on available water. The Colorado Water Conservation Board already had a right to a minimum flow of 300 cfs (except in droughts when it drops to 200 cfs), but that right is inadequate for trout protection because it was established in 1965 and therefore is junior to the right of the Aspinall Unit, which was established in 1956. The Water Conservation Board and Gunnison River trout could get nothing if the current drought continues and Aspinall water is allocated for other uses. Aspinall’s right, however, is junior to the park’s, which Colorado’s Water Court says dates to 1933. So by announcing that it was going to protect Aspinall’s yield, the Bush administration threw away the water right the Park Service had worked for, planned for, and gone to court for–a right owned by the American people. "Fisheries are not built around minimum flows but around favorable flows," remarks David Nickum, director of Colorado Trout Unlimited. "A minimum flow will typically get you a minimum fishery. That’s not what we have today in the Black Canyon of the Gunnison and the Gunnison Gorge [a

Response:

POLITICS AGAIN - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - \ This rant brought to you by the DNC Hq. and should be viewed accordingly. LZ\ The guy who wrote the article is a staunch Republican. Get your head out of your ass moron. Even conservative outdoors mags are coming down on the Bush administration. Wake the fuck up idiot.

Response:

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Does anyone here read these posts? I do. I don't agree with all the cross-posting. But most of the posts are relevant to rec.backcountry at least. People complain about the large volume of this person's posts. But each post covers a different action taken by the Bush administration to further degrade our backcountry and environment. So the large volume of posts is only a reflection of the large volume of Bush's anti-backcountry actions That in itself should be troubling to any backcountry recreationist. Anyone who supports Bush couldn't possibly care about the backcountry or the environment. It's just plain old NIMBYism. As long as Bush is trying to stick oil wells, increase logging, allow more pollution or roll back environmental protections in someone else's favorite backcountry area it's OK. Why don't you LEARN how to NOT crosspost. This asinine crossposting has screwed up alt.great-lakes. idiots -- WaIIy -- reply to: eIvez<!mindspring<!com

Agreed, if everyone trimmed the headers to only post back to the group they are in, the threads would die out fast except in groups that are interested. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Response:

"\ POLITICS AGAIN\ No dipshit. It's a fishing article. Get your head out of your ass.

Response:

\ Nope. In the first place, routinely cross posting to half a dozen or more news groups inhabited mainly by fools who are convinced (for no apparent reason) that they have something to say assures that he will never be ignored. Secondly, Muskie is the sort of pathetic sociopath who simply doesn't go away. Wolfgang oh, and think of the consequences if he ever DID.......ya'll would have no one but each other to play with! :)\

This is pretty funny Wolf, considering you like to prop yourself up on the lifeguard chair and look down on it all from above. You think you're "above it all", yet in reality you are still in between the fences at the community pool. What a fool. You can blow the whistle, but your still a part of the routine.

Response:

I found a neat program that attaches itself to Outlook Express and allows you to block all emails and news group posts from any individual. You never know that they still exist. Wish I could find it to share with the rest of you. Muskie, Bitterroot and Rosco no longer exist!!!

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - This rant brought to you by the DNC Hq. and should be viewed accordingly. LZ http://www.flyrodreel.com/conservation.html Water Wrongs The federal government is giving away our Western rivers By TED WILLIAMS ON SEPTEMBER 30, 2002, in a move that opened the way for irrigators and developers to desiccate trout streams all over the West, the Bush Administration abandoned a reserved federal water right to Colorado's Gunnison River, one of the best trophy wild trout fisheries in America. Along with the water and fish, Bush and company also abandoned the National Park System, the National Wilderness System and all Americans who love nature, including sportsmen, most of whom supported Bush in the last election. "Sportsmen for Bush," read the bumper stickers. "I never understood [that] and still don’t," comments sportsman Mike Pennington on FR&R’s website bulletin board. But in this case at least, sportsmen have an excuse for being ill informed. The giveaway of the water right held by the Black Canyon of the Gunnison National Park was conducted entirely in secret. Because the issue was being debated in Colorado’s Water Court, the National Environmental Policy Act did not kick in. The federal government’s decision required neither public hearings nor public comment. The Bush administration just ordained that a national park established around a river and its canyon "to protect the roar of the river" didn’t need water. The Clinton administration had sought to protect the public’s water rights that the Bush administration is now ceding to Western states. For example, in January 2001, Clinton’s Park Service filed an application for a natural-flow regime (including a base flow of 300 cubic feet per second) through 14-mile- long Black Canyon of the Gunnison National Park. Western water rights are based on seniority, and the park–established in 1933 as a national monument and upgraded in 1999–had plenty of seniority. In 1978 that seniority and right were upheld by Colorado’s Water Court, which found that the purpose of the park "is to conserve and maintain in an unimpaired condition the scenic, aesthetic, natural and historic objects of the monument, as well as the wildlife therein, in order that the monument might provide a source of recreation and enjoyment for all generations of citizens of the United States." With that, the court directed the federal government to apply for the amount of water the park needed "within five years of final decree." But since the court didn’t get around to issuing a final decree, the five-year countdown never started, and the feds didn’t come up with flow figures until President Clinton was about to leave office. The park wanted to approximate the natural conditions that had existed in the river and its canyon before 1965. That was the year the Bureau of Reclamation shut the gates on its enormous Blue Mesa dam, which backs up a million-acre- foot reservoir for irrigation and power–the toilet tank of the three-dam Aspinall Unit, named for the crusty, dam-fixated, anti-environmental US congressman Wayne Aspinall, who funneled pork into the state from 1949 to 1973. The Park Service’s mission, after all, is to protect and recreate natural processes, and, wherever practical, let them "proceed unimpeded." When it is serious about this mission, as it was under the leadership of former Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt, it takes the long view. And the long view is this: For about 12 million years the Gunnison sliced down through soft volcanic and sedimentary rock. Then, two million years ago, it hit the much harder Precambrian gneiss of the Gunnison Uplift. Trapped in the canyon it had already excavated, the river began eating away this metamorphic layer at the approximate rate of the thickness of one human hair per year or one inch per century until, in places, it was 2,400 feet below the rim. When this ancient process was abruptly and unnaturally curtailed in 1965 bad things began to happen. An unnatural plant community sprang up along the bottom of the canyon, constricting the channel and quickening the flow. In the canyon and far downstream the annual production of large, woody debris, so critical for trout survival, ceased, and in its place came alien plants. Rubble, clay and sand– swept down from the side canyons by the flash floods of summer–began accumulating in the main channel. The spaces under cobbles and boulders– habitat for the salmonflies that comprise a huge part of the diet of Gunnison River trout–were cemented shut. Tubifex worms, which pass whirling disease to trout, proliferated in the sediments. The Colorado Division of Wildlife has just finished an electro-fishing survey of a two-mile stretch of river just below the park. In the late 1980s, before whirling disease showed up, this stretch held 12,000 wild rainbows over six inches, 2,000 of them between 16 and 22 inches. In 2002 it held 87. Browns evolved in Europe with whirling disease, so they can usually tolerate the parasite. But because browns require structure and slower flows than rainbows, they’ve not filled the vacant niche. Dr. Jack Stanford, professor of ecology at the University of Montana, grew up around the Black Canyon and has been studying its ecology since the mid 1970s. "The river hasn’t flushed well in a long time," he told me. "Because peak flows have been so badly curtailed we have large accumulations of organic matter in backwaters. If these backwaters are flushed regularly, groundwater moves up through the gravel bars to produce a real healthy food web and very important rearing areas for trout. The terrestrial vegetation also clogs the river, creating habitat not conducive to trout. And the vegetation narrows the channel so sandbars don’t form. When I was a kid the canyon had huge sandbars. Now they’re gone or covered with plants." The sandbars and backwaters that the Park Service had hoped to restore provided critical spawning and nursery habitat for four endangered fish that evolved with high spring flows–the humpback chub, razorback sucker, bonytail chub and Colorado pikeminnow (the new PC name for squawfish). Under the Endangered Species Act state and federal managers are mandated to protect the habitat of threatened and endangered species, but the Bush administration has decided to ignore its legal responsibilities. AFTER EXTENSIVE RESEARCH, park officials applied for a year-round minimum flow of 300 cubic feet per second (cfs), shoulder flows (an average in wet years) of 800 cfs for 80 days and a one-day scouring flow of between 2,000 and 12,000 cfs, depending on available water. The Colorado Water Conservation Board already had a right to a minimum flow of 300 cfs (except in droughts when it drops to 200 cfs), but that right is inadequate for trout protection because it was established in 1965 and therefore is junior to the right of the Aspinall Unit, which was established in 1956. The Water Conservation Board and Gunnison River trout could get nothing if the current drought continues and Aspinall water is allocated for other uses. Aspinall’s right, however, is junior to the park’s, which Colorado’s Water Court says dates to 1933. So by announcing that it was going to protect Aspinall’s yield, the Bush administration threw away the water right the Park Service had worked for, planned for, and gone to court for–a right owned by the American people. "Fisheries are not built around minimum flows but around favorable flows," remarks David Nickum, director of Colorado Trout Unlimited. "A minimum flow will typically get you a minimum fishery. That’s not what we have today in the Black Canyon of the Gunnison and the Gunnison Gorge [a Bureau of Lands Management wilderness area directly downstream]. I’m very concerned that it may be what we see in the future if steps aren’t taken to protect the resource." Melinda Kassen, who directs TU’s Colorado Water Project, adds this: "If we have 300 cfs year after year, there will be no gold-medal fishery in the Gunnison River. Trout need that base flow but they also need those shoulder flows and peak flows." Because of the drought, the Bureau of Reclamation released only 250 cfs from Aspinall during the winter of 2002-03. The park’s proposal wasn’t perfect. For example, Nickum and Kassen worried that quick drawdowns after the scouring flows might leave

Response:

You are the "DipShit" ya hypocrite – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "\ POLITICS AGAIN\ No dipshit. It’s a fishing article. Get your head out of your ass.

Response:

GYRO, why crosspost a meaningless reply to everyone? Especially including the entire original. It’s as bad as the original poster you seem to be complaining about.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – POLITICS AGAIN!

Response:

Cross posting is never OK. Why can’t we be left in peace? Those of us who are interested in discussions about Bush’s environmental policies are more than able to subscribe to rec.backcountry or whatever and join in. But when every morning seems to bring up more anti-Bush posts than anything else, it gets old. Thanks for letting me vent…

Douglas- As a long time fence sitter I see Chaka and Tom Beno and Muskie as the only ones willing to counter an anti-environmental attack in newsgroups that beagan in the late 1990’s… Posts from the likes of Vikki Eggers (a paid employees of the "Share the Trails" pro access group) and the worst of the bunch: mel-anie "sharethewoods" who you can do a quick search on and see what s/he is about. ..these two single handedly invaded the NP, backcountry and numerous other NG’s with the single intention of disirupting any positive or constructive comments and to drive away the borderline poster… If you hate the weed of troll, dig around and include the root, it’s twice as deep and three times as nasty… Elvis

Response:

\ This rant brought to you by the DNC Hq. and should be viewed accordingly. LZ\

The guy who wrote the article is a staunch Republican. Get your head out of your ass moron. Even conservative outdoors mags are coming down on the Bush administration. Wake the fuck up idiot.

Response:

Cross posting is never OK. The OK method is to post seperately to every relevant group. He is a troll who will keep trolling as long as people keep replying to his trash. I keep the troll killfiled, and I would appreciate it if you wouldn’t quote his bullshit everytime. (Not you Chaka, everyone in general) His posts accomplish nothing and are the root cause of many arguments, ignore him, and he will go away.

This is the root of the problem. There are specific groups this pertains to, such as rec.backcountry, and should be kept to the environmental groups. If, for example, Chaka wants to post something specifically relating to the Great Lakes area (i.e., the Bush administration OKs power boats in the Boundary Waters), that’s on-topic and OK by me (not picking on you in any way, Chaka, BTW). But when that troll Bob Smith/Richard Dent/Esox/whothehellever posts his stuff about drilling in Alaska, or threats to streams in the Appalachians, it’s over the line and needs to be kept in the appropriate groups. I have absolutely no problem with environmental posts. Hell, I’m an environmental scientist working in CWA stuff, have been for the last eight years. But when his posts are about Alaska, or Bush’s approval ratings, all I see is a spammer. And make no mistake: any guy who jumps from free email account to free email account, not responding to anything, using a fake name, is a spammer. No different than the crap about penis enlargement and new credit cards that are overfilling my inbox every single day. I dare say that a number of people subscribing to alt.great-lakes and the flyfishing groups that were sitting on the fence as far as Bush and the environment go are now slanted against environmental protection. Why? Because they’re so pissed off with having it shoved down their throats. I know where the environmental NGs are, and I subscribe to some of them. I DON’T need to see it in alt.great-lakes every day. And I have to say it makes me unhappy that so many environmentalists seem to support this crossposting carpetbombing campaign. On several occasions, people from these satellite groups (for lack of a better term) posted politely to request the crossposting cease, only to be rudely rebuffed by apparent "environmentalists". Why can’t we be left in peace? Those of us who are interested in discussions about Bush’s environmental policies are more than able to subscribe to rec.backcountry or whatever and join in. But when every morning seems to bring up more anti-Bush posts than anything else, it gets old. I’d like as much as anyone else to have an environmentally friendly president in the White House. But to be honest, at this point, I’m as frustrated with the environmental movement as I am with, say, the pro-life movement. I’m just sick of all the in-your-face stuff, and I feel pretty alienated by it all. There are better ways to make a point. Thanks for letting me vent…

Response:

The posts are just DNC bulletins under the environmental smokescreen.

Protecting our backcountry should not be a partisan issue. The greatest conservationist president was undoubtedly Teddy Roosevelt, a republican. I’m an independent. The reason I criticize Bush so much is not because he’s a republican, but because of his total indifference to our wilderness, Parks, Monuments, Forests, wildlife and all things environmental. Fly Rod and Reel is just the latest outdoors magazine that has had enough of Bush’s bullshit. Field and Stream criticized him and Outdoor magazine called Norton Bush’s "stealth weapon" against the backcountry and environment. If Bush got his way the whole country would be a polluted, treeless hellhole like Texas. That’s what he thinks of as the backcountry. Mile after mile after mile of barbed wire fences and oilwells. Yahooo!!!

Response:

This rant brought to you by the DNC Hq. and should be viewed accordingly. LZ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.flyrodreel.com/conservation.html Water Wrongs The federal government is giving away our Western rivers By TED WILLIAMS ON SEPTEMBER 30, 2002, in a move that opened the way for irrigators and developers to desiccate trout streams all over the West, the Bush Administration abandoned a reserved federal water right to Colorado’s Gunnison River, one of the best trophy wild trout fisheries in America. Along with the water and fish, Bush and company also abandoned the National Park System, the National Wilderness System and all Americans who love nature, including sportsmen, most of whom supported Bush in the last election. "Sportsmen for Bush," read the bumper stickers. "I never understood [that] and still don’t," comments sportsman Mike Pennington on FR&R’s website bulletin board. But in this case at least, sportsmen have an excuse for being ill informed. The giveaway of the water right held by the Black Canyon of the Gunnison National Park was conducted entirely in secret. Because the issue was being debated in Colorado’s Water Court, the National Environmental Policy Act did not kick in. The federal government’s decision required neither public hearings nor public comment. The Bush administration just ordained that a national park established around a river and its canyon "to protect the roar of the river" didn’t need water. The Clinton administration had sought to protect the public’s water rights that the Bush administration is now ceding to Western states. For example, in January 2001, Clinton’s Park Service filed an application for a natural-flow regime (including a base flow of 300 cubic feet per second) through 14-mile- long Black Canyon of the Gunnison National Park. Western water rights are based on seniority, and the park–established in 1933 as a national monument and upgraded in 1999–had plenty of seniority. In 1978 that seniority and right were upheld by Colorado’s Water Court, which found that the purpose of the park "is to conserve and maintain in an unimpaired condition the scenic, aesthetic, natural and historic objects of the monument, as well as the wildlife therein, in order that the monument might provide a source of recreation and enjoyment for all generations of citizens of the United States." With that, the court directed the federal government to apply for the amount of water the park needed "within five years of final decree." But since the court didn’t get around to issuing a final decree, the five-year countdown never started, and the feds didn’t come up with flow figures until President Clinton was about to leave office. The park wanted to approximate the natural conditions that had existed in the river and its canyon before 1965. That was the year the Bureau of Reclamation shut the gates on its enormous Blue Mesa dam, which backs up a million-acre- foot reservoir for irrigation and power–the toilet tank of the three-dam Aspinall Unit, named for the crusty, dam-fixated, anti-environmental US congressman Wayne Aspinall, who funneled pork into the state from 1949 to 1973. The Park Service’s mission, after all, is to protect and recreate natural processes, and, wherever practical, let them "proceed unimpeded." When it is serious about this mission, as it was under the leadership of former Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt, it takes the long view. And the long view is this: For about 12 million years the Gunnison sliced down through soft volcanic and sedimentary rock. Then, two million years ago, it hit the much harder Precambrian gneiss of the Gunnison Uplift. Trapped in the canyon it had already excavated, the river began eating away this metamorphic layer at the approximate rate of the thickness of one human hair per year or one inch per century until, in places, it was 2,400 feet below the rim. When this ancient process was abruptly and unnaturally curtailed in 1965 bad things began to happen. An unnatural plant community sprang up along the bottom of the canyon, constricting the channel and quickening the flow. In the canyon and far downstream the annual production of large, woody debris, so critical for trout survival, ceased, and in its place came alien plants. Rubble, clay and sand– swept down from the side canyons by the flash floods of summer–began accumulating in the main channel. The spaces under cobbles and boulders– habitat for the salmonflies that comprise a huge part of the diet of Gunnison River trout–were cemented shut. Tubifex worms, which pass whirling disease to trout, proliferated in the sediments. The Colorado Division of Wildlife has just finished an electro-fishing survey of a two-mile stretch of river just below the park. In the late 1980s, before whirling disease showed up, this stretch held 12,000 wild rainbows over six inches, 2,000 of them between 16 and 22 inches. In 2002 it held 87. Browns evolved in Europe with whirling disease, so they can usually tolerate the parasite. But because browns require structure and slower flows than rainbows, they’ve not filled the vacant niche. Dr. Jack Stanford, professor of ecology at the University of Montana, grew up around the Black Canyon and has been studying its ecology since the mid 1970s. "The river hasn’t flushed well in a long time," he told me. "Because peak flows have been so badly curtailed we have large accumulations of organic matter in backwaters. If these backwaters are flushed regularly, groundwater moves up through the gravel bars to produce a real healthy food web and very important rearing areas for trout. The terrestrial vegetation also clogs the river, creating habitat not conducive to trout. And the vegetation narrows the channel so sandbars don’t form. When I was a kid the canyon had huge sandbars. Now they’re gone or covered with plants." The sandbars and backwaters that the Park Service had hoped to restore provided critical spawning and nursery habitat for four endangered fish that evolved with high spring flows–the humpback chub, razorback sucker, bonytail chub and Colorado pikeminnow (the new PC name for squawfish). Under the Endangered Species Act state and federal managers are mandated to protect the habitat of threatened and endangered species, but the Bush administration has decided to ignore its legal responsibilities. AFTER EXTENSIVE RESEARCH, park officials applied for a year-round minimum flow of 300 cubic feet per second (cfs), shoulder flows (an average in wet years) of 800 cfs for 80 days and a one-day scouring flow of between 2,000 and 12,000 cfs, depending on available water. The Colorado Water Conservation Board already had a right to a minimum flow of 300 cfs (except in droughts when it drops to 200 cfs), but that right is inadequate for trout protection because it was established in 1965 and therefore is junior to the right of the Aspinall Unit, which was established in 1956. The Water Conservation Board and Gunnison River trout could get nothing if the current drought continues and Aspinall water is allocated for other uses. Aspinall’s right, however, is junior to the park’s, which Colorado’s Water Court says dates to 1933. So by announcing that it was going to protect Aspinall’s yield, the Bush administration threw away the water right the Park Service had worked for, planned for, and gone to court for–a right owned by the American people. "Fisheries are not built around minimum flows but around favorable flows," remarks David Nickum, director of Colorado Trout Unlimited. "A minimum flow will typically get you a minimum fishery. That’s not what we have today in the Black Canyon of the Gunnison and the Gunnison Gorge [a Bureau of Lands Management wilderness area directly downstream]. I’m very concerned that it may be what we see in the future if steps aren’t taken to protect the resource." Melinda Kassen, who directs TU’s Colorado Water Project, adds this: "If we have 300 cfs year after year, there will be no gold-medal fishery in the Gunnison River. Trout need that base flow but they also need those shoulder flows and peak flows." Because of the drought, the Bureau of Reclamation released only 250 cfs from Aspinall during the winter of 2002-03. The park’s proposal wasn’t perfect. For example, Nickum and Kassen worried that quick drawdowns after the scouring flows might leave trout stranded. But the park had a good attitude and let all hands know it would be happy to work out the kinks. It let the downstream town of Delta know it didn’t want to flood the buildings that had mushroomed in the floodplain since Blue Mesa Dam started holding back spring runoff in 1965. It let upstream hay growers, about half of whom have water rights junior to, and therefore subordinate to, the park’s, know that it had no wish to cut into their profits. After all, the feds had not claimed any of the water that was legally theirs since FDR established the monument in 1933. They expressed a willingness to work with irrigators and to spare them economic hardship. It wouldn’t have been difficult. Still, the state, irrigators and developers threw a hissy

Response:

POLITICS AGAIN!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This rant brought to you by the DNC Hq. and should be viewed accordingly. LZ http://www.flyrodreel.com/conservation.html Water Wrongs The federal government is giving away our Western rivers By TED WILLIAMS ON SEPTEMBER 30, 2002, in a move that opened the way for irrigators and developers to desiccate trout streams all over the West, the Bush Administration abandoned a reserved federal water right to Colorado’s Gunnison River, one of the best trophy wild trout fisheries in America. Along with the water and fish, Bush and company also abandoned the National Park System, the National Wilderness System and all Americans who love nature, including sportsmen, most of whom supported Bush in the last election. "Sportsmen for Bush," read the bumper stickers. "I never understood [that] and still don’t," comments sportsman Mike Pennington on FR&R’s website bulletin board. But in this case at least, sportsmen have an excuse for being ill informed. The giveaway of the water right held by the Black Canyon of the Gunnison National Park was conducted entirely in secret. Because the issue was being debated in Colorado’s Water Court, the National Environmental Policy Act did not kick in. The federal government’s decision required neither public hearings nor public comment. The Bush administration just ordained that a national park established around a river and its canyon "to protect the roar of the river" didn’t need water. The Clinton administration had sought to protect the public’s water rights that the Bush administration is now ceding to Western states. For example, in January 2001, Clinton’s Park Service filed an application for a natural-flow regime (including a base flow of 300 cubic feet per second) through 14-mile- long Black Canyon of the Gunnison National Park. Western water rights are based on seniority, and the park–established in 1933 as a national monument and upgraded in 1999–had plenty of seniority. In 1978 that seniority and right were upheld by Colorado’s Water Court, which found that the purpose of the park "is to conserve and maintain in an unimpaired condition the scenic, aesthetic, natural and historic objects of the monument, as well as the wildlife therein, in order that the monument might provide a source of recreation and enjoyment for all generations of citizens of the United States." With that, the court directed the federal government to apply for the amount of water the park needed "within five years of final decree." But since the court didn’t get around to issuing a final decree, the five-year countdown never started, and the feds didn’t come up with flow figures until President Clinton was about to leave office. The park wanted to approximate the natural conditions that had existed in the river and its canyon before 1965. That was the year the Bureau of Reclamation shut the gates on its enormous Blue Mesa dam, which backs up a million-acre- foot reservoir for irrigation and power–the toilet tank of the three-dam Aspinall Unit, named for the crusty, dam-fixated, anti-environmental US congressman Wayne Aspinall, who funneled pork into the state from 1949 to 1973. The Park Service’s mission, after all, is to protect and recreate natural processes, and, wherever practical, let them "proceed unimpeded." When it is serious about this mission, as it was under the leadership of former Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt, it takes the long view. And the long view is this: For about 12 million years the Gunnison sliced down through soft volcanic and sedimentary rock. Then, two million years ago, it hit the much harder Precambrian gneiss of the Gunnison Uplift. Trapped in the canyon it had already excavated, the river began eating away this metamorphic layer at the approximate rate of the thickness of one human hair per year or one inch per century until, in places, it was 2,400 feet below the rim. When this ancient process was abruptly and unnaturally curtailed in 1965 bad things began to happen. An unnatural plant community sprang up along the bottom of the canyon, constricting the channel and quickening the flow. In the canyon and far downstream the annual production of large, woody debris, so critical for trout survival, ceased, and in its place came alien plants. Rubble, clay and sand– swept down from the side canyons by the flash floods of summer–began accumulating in the main channel. The spaces under cobbles and boulders– habitat for the salmonflies that comprise a huge part of the diet of Gunnison River trout–were cemented shut. Tubifex worms, which pass whirling disease to trout, proliferated in the sediments. The Colorado Division of Wildlife has just finished an electro-fishing survey of a two-mile stretch of river just below the park. In the late 1980s, before whirling disease showed up, this stretch held 12,000 wild rainbows over six inches, 2,000 of them between 16 and 22 inches. In 2002 it held 87. Browns evolved in Europe with whirling disease, so they can usually tolerate the parasite. But because browns require structure and slower flows than rainbows, they’ve not filled the vacant niche. Dr. Jack Stanford, professor of ecology at the University of Montana, grew up around the Black Canyon and has been studying its ecology since the mid 1970s. "The river hasn’t flushed well in a long time," he told me. "Because peak flows have been so badly curtailed we have large accumulations of organic matter in backwaters. If these backwaters are flushed regularly, groundwater moves up through the gravel bars to produce a real healthy food web and very important rearing areas for trout. The terrestrial vegetation also clogs the river, creating habitat not conducive to trout. And the vegetation narrows the channel so sandbars don’t form. When I was a kid the canyon had huge sandbars. Now they’re gone or covered with plants." The sandbars and backwaters that the Park Service had hoped to restore provided critical spawning and nursery habitat for four endangered fish that evolved with high spring flows–the humpback chub, razorback sucker, bonytail chub and Colorado pikeminnow (the new PC name for squawfish). Under the Endangered Species Act state and federal managers are mandated to protect the habitat of threatened and endangered species, but the Bush administration has decided to ignore its legal responsibilities. AFTER EXTENSIVE RESEARCH, park officials applied for a year-round minimum flow of 300 cubic feet per second (cfs), shoulder flows (an average in wet years) of 800 cfs for 80 days and a one-day scouring flow of between 2,000 and 12,000 cfs, depending on available water. The Colorado Water Conservation Board already had a right to a minimum flow of 300 cfs (except in droughts when it drops to 200 cfs), but that right is inadequate for trout protection because it was established in 1965 and therefore is junior to the right of the Aspinall Unit, which was established in 1956. The Water Conservation Board and Gunnison River trout could get nothing if the current drought continues and Aspinall water is allocated for other uses. Aspinall’s right, however, is junior to the park’s, which Colorado’s Water Court says dates to 1933. So by announcing that it was going to protect Aspinall’s yield, the Bush administration threw away the water right the Park Service had worked for, planned for, and gone to court for–a right owned by the American people. "Fisheries are not built around minimum flows but around favorable flows," remarks David Nickum, director of Colorado Trout Unlimited. "A minimum flow will typically get you a minimum fishery. That’s not what we have today in the Black Canyon of the Gunnison and the Gunnison Gorge [a Bureau of Lands Management wilderness area directly downstream]. I’m very concerned that it may be what we see in the future if steps aren’t taken to protect the resource." Melinda Kassen, who directs TU’s Colorado Water Project, adds this: "If we have 300 cfs year after year, there will be no gold-medal fishery in the Gunnison River. Trout need that base flow but they also need those shoulder flows and peak flows." Because of the drought, the Bureau of Reclamation released only 250 cfs from Aspinall during the winter of 2002-03. The park’s proposal wasn’t perfect. For example, Nickum and Kassen worried that quick drawdowns after the scouring flows might leave trout stranded. But the park had a good attitude and let all hands know it would be happy to work out the kinks. It let the downstream town of Delta know it didn’t want to flood the buildings that had mushroomed in the floodplain since

Response:

The posts are just DNC bulletins under the environmental smokescreen. Strictly for gullible morons who haven’t paid attention to the issues. LZ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone here read these posts? I do. I don’t agree with all the cross-posting. But most of the posts are relevant to rec.backcountry at least. People complain about the large volume of this person’s posts. But each post covers a different action taken by the Bush administration to further degrade our backcountry and environment. So the large volume of posts is only a reflection of the large volume of Bush’s anti-backcountry actions That in itself should be troubling to any backcountry recreationist. Anyone who supports Bush couldn’t possibly care about the backcountry or the environment. It’s just plain old NIMBYism. As long as Bush is trying to stick oil wells, increase logging, allow more pollution or roll back environmental protections in someone else’s favorite backcountry area it’s OK.

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Flyfishing
Tags: Flyfishing

Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Help

Help

Question:

I live in Utah and i am wondering what the best fly to use is. I Am fishing provo river and Hobble creek. What would be the best fly to use for fishing lakes. I have fished Scofeild and electric lake. if you could help me i would appriciate it.

Response:

I live in Utah and i am wondering what the best fly to use is.

The one that catches fish. Sorry, couldn’t resist

Response:

As long as your muffler bearings have not gunkulated your framistat it is fairly harmless. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

I just can not wait to see the Fortenberry tartan ! Make sure you get photos ! TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Yeah, OK, so you’re justified in dropping an F-bomb on a guy for a first-time mistake.

You don’t read so well, first-time I said, and I quote: Try to learn a little something about the forum before you come barging in with a bunch of bullshit. It’s called netiquette and you’re in dire need of it. Now tell me why it is again that you called Vern a clueless idiot.

I called Vern a clueless idiot for the obvious reason. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Mr. Dreamer, the post from your grandson was loaded with potentially dangerous and extremely annoying features, dumping cookies, starting browsers, filling screens with HTML code, initiating auto-dial-ups, etc. This is a very bad thing to do. When I opened the post I got very alarmed at all the things it did before I could do anything to stop it. It shot my machine down, and I was obliged to do a restart etc. I was also obliged to attempt to delete it unread at first, and after trying this three times, and re-setting my machine, I was able to actually read the post, albeit by this time most unwillingly. Apart from which, this newsgroup discusses fly-fishing and not boats. Now at least you know what your grandson did wrong. I doubt anybody wished to hurt him, but this sort of post is not only annoying, but potentially dangerous. As you obviously know better, you can perhaps explain to him why what he did was wrong, and in future when you allow him to use your e-mail, you might supervise him a little more closely, and aid him in his endeavours. Usenet or the internet in general is not the place to allow 10 year old boys free rein. If you or your grandson has any questions pertaining to fishing, then there are lots of people here, including Mr.Harrison, who would be only to pleased to help you. The gut reaction from many to posts which manipulate the machine is to immediately protest to the sender and the ISP of that sender. Regarding the information requested in the original post, there are two basic reasons for a two stroke motor smoking, one is too much oil in the mixture, and the second is the oil scraper rings are worn. This bungs up the spark plugs. If you take the plug out and it is covered in black soot, then one of these reasons is usually the problem. This will eventually also result in misfiring, and difficult starting. Two stroke motors are rarely used for fly-fishing per se. For this type of info, go to a boating group, or your local garage, marina etc. This and other groups are not free information services. I am sure anybody would welcome a newbie on here with any genuine questions. If your grandson wishes to try again, WITHOUT ANY EXOTIC CODING IN THE MESSAGE, then I am sure both you and he will be pleasantly surprised. I hope this is of help to you. Tight lines ! Mike Connor — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

… this skirmish shall take place on a glen atop grandfather mountain at 2pm on may 8th in the year of our glorious salmo, 2000. standard scottish kilts shall be worn …

Nope, no way. I know what’s under a kilt, more to the point I know what’s NOT under a kilt. Janik can be Evil Ken Twin #1. Actually I prefer it that way, when I refer to him as #1, I feel positively Patrick Stewarty. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Hey, who knows I just might be finding myself back in cowtown in the not so distant future. And…hee hee hee…I know my way around DCL. Don’t worry, I’ll be armed with Bud as a peace offering. :-)

Oh gawd, another "corporate partner" come to rape the alma mater. 1412 DCL, and check the "born on date", stale Bud ain’t no peace offering. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

What can you expect from a jerk? Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip There wasn’t malice in the first post but the second post was definitely out of line. You do not post private email to a USENET newsgroup without the authors permission, and I am assuming that Ernie didn’t give his permission to post that rather mild rebuke to ROFF. That’s malice #1, whether they have enough of a clue to realize it or not, it is definitely malice of a most egregious nature. Fuck ‘em. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Rhode Island Dreamer, If you are going to turn your grandson loose with your computer you should teach him news group regulations. He sent a bunch of crap which tied up my computer and made me shut down the program just to get rid of it. If your grandson wants to communicate with this news group let him do it in plain English. He will find the group is friendly and helpful. I guess the rest of the group told you what they think about his message and yours. I’ll just say wake up jerk, if you weren’t dreaming perhaps you would know what your grandson is doing. Ernie Harrison I hope that someone can help me. My grandson (10) was on his grandfather’s email so that he could go to discuss: fly fishing. Fly fishing is his favorite. He wrote in on a few questions, that he knew back(included below). Not exactly what I thought good sportsmanship was all about. I have always put fisherman up there with people I like to associate with. One bad apple spoils it for everyone. My grandson was so hurt. He didn’t know what he did wrong and now doesn’t want to cotribute to the discuuss group any more. CAN"T BLAME HIM, CAN YOU! X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 What the hell do you think this is? Quit posting the Webb junk to this news group Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —— Original Message —– Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 1:43 PM

Response:

Yeah, OK, so you’re justified in dropping an F-bomb on a guy for a first-time mistake. Now tell me why it is again that you called Vern a clueless idiot a few days ago for dropping an F-bomb on someone who spammed the group? Seems to me if you’re gonna ream some guy for trying to explain the errant newsgroup behavior of his grandkid you’d certainly champion the cause of anyone who would rail on newsgroup spammers. You cannot possibly think the grandpa or the grandson knew any better–yet that’s essentially the same defense you used in your "take-a-chill-you-idiot" post to Vern. –Steve

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … but unless I’m missing something on this one, it seems uncalled for…and I’m not generally considered a softie on these things. Ah HAH ! SO, you relinquish the title Evil Ken Twin #1 ?? Hey, I gotta have something to keep my edge sharp on. With George killfiled and Timmy giving up his mental cluster fuck lately I guess I’m just getting rusty. Newbies just aren’t much fun to pick on IMHO. - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet." - Al Gore

let me see if i understand this…. some clueless newbie posts a message with a obscene webtv html sig (killfiled his honor immediately)….. ernie, in moderation rebukes him…. grandma gets in a huff…. et1 is moderate…..ET2, seeing a chink in ET1’s armor, wants to wrestle the blooded praetorial monniker away from ET1…. yup, makes sense to me….. as clavemeister, i call for a meeting of the et’s to settle this most unpleasant matter. this skirmish shall take place on a glen atop grandfather mountain at 2pm on may 8th in the year of our glorious salmo, 2000. standard scottish kilts shall be worn and the combatatants, aside from their mercurious wit, shall be armed with cabers and blarney stones and of course, proper drink. last man standing takes the name. waldo

Response:

… but unless I’m missing something on this one, it seems uncalled for…and I’m not generally considered a softie on these things.

Ah HAH ! SO, you relinquish the title Evil Ken Twin #1 ?? By your own admission, I am the more Evil of the Evil Ken Twins. Please change your moniker to ET2. — Ken Fortenberry- it was just a matter of time

Response:

… but unless I’m missing something on this one, it seems uncalled for…and I’m not generally considered a softie on these things. Ah HAH ! SO, you relinquish the title Evil Ken Twin #1 ??

Hey, I gotta have something to keep my edge sharp on. With George killfiled and Timmy giving up his mental cluster fuck lately I guess I’m just getting rusty. Newbies just aren’t much fun to pick on IMHO. - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet." - Al Gore

Response:

– Other ROFFians laugh with glee?

FWIW, the experience with the dentist wasn’t fun nor was it, in my opinion, called for. If he had tried the extremely cold test on the bad tooth and I didn’t feel it we could have gone right on with the root canal, IMO. I didn’t think I was laughing with glee about anything, then or now. — Charlie…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let me get this straight: – Some kid, or potentially clueless adult posted an innocent question, but had the mime and/or html set on their browser. – Some ROFFian reamed them for it. – Kid’s parents, grandparents, or potentially same clueless adult posts whining about the treatment. – Some ROFFian reams them for it. – Other ROFFians laugh with glee? Yeah, usenet is rough, but should we really go out of our way to be rough? When there is malice on the newbie’s part I can understand it, but unless I’m missing something on this one, it seems uncalled for…and I’m not generally considered a softie on these things.

There wasn’t malice in the first post but the second post was definitely out of line. You do not post private email to a USENET newsgroup without the authors permission, and I am assuming that Ernie didn’t give his permission to post that rather mild rebuke to ROFF. That’s malice #1, whether they have enough of a clue to realize it or not, it is definitely malice of a most egregious nature. Fuck ‘em. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I hope that someone can help me.

USENET newsgroups are not "discuss" groups for every muddle headed moron with a webTV account. If you or your 10 year old wants to participate here, learn how to do it right. For what it’s worth, Ernie Harrison was quite polite given the circumstances. Now, fuck off. Hope this helps. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I hope that someone can help me. My grandson (10) was on his grandfather’s email so that he could go to discuss: fly fishing. Fly fishing is his favorite. He wrote in on a few questions, that he knew back(included below). Not exactly what I thought good sportsmanship was all about. I have always put fisherman up there with people I like to associate with. One bad apple spoils it for everyone. My grandson was so hurt. He didn’t know what he did wrong and now doesn’t want to cotribute to the discuuss group any more. CAN"T BLAME HIM, CAN YOU!

Sorry your grandson got singed, but all of that music and pictures and junk in the webTV signatures is considered very rude on text-only newsgroups, and cost European subscribers that pay by the minute a lot of money to download the big files. The only people who can enforce these rules are the newsgroup users. The responses were probably a little too harsh, but no one expects kids to actually read roff with all the politics and BS they’d have to wade through. — Levi "There are no facts, only interpretations." -Friedrich Nietzsche

Response:

For what it’s worth, Ernie Harrison was quite polite given the circumstances. Now, fuck off. Hope this helps.

LOL. This is one of those threads that I catch the end of then have to go back and see where it started. Joe F.

Response:

LOL. This is one of those threads that I catch the end of then have to go back and see where it started.

Oh, now I understand. Joe F.

Response:

Hope this helps. I had a root canal a few weeks ago and, before he did it, the dentist wanted to verify that the root was dead. He did this by touching the tooth with an extremely cold object. The bad news was that he calibrated it by testing a known good tooth first so I would know what extreme pain felt like. Forty provides the same service on roff<g.

ROFLMAO. Is it safe? Joe F.

Response:

Oh, now I understand.

Except for how he got Jack Webb’s TV. Joe F.

Response:

Hope this helps.

I had a root canal a few weeks ago and, before he did it, the dentist wanted to verify that the root was dead. He did this by touching the tooth with an extremely cold object. The bad news was that he calibrated it by testing a known good tooth first so I would know what extreme pain felt like. Forty provides the same service on roff<g. — Charlie…

Response:

Hey, Ernie, why didn’t you tell them what you *really* felt? <g Dave L.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hope this helps. I had a root canal a few weeks ago and, before he did it, the dentist wanted to verify that the root was dead. He did this by touching the tooth with an extremely cold object. The bad news was that he calibrated it by testing a known good tooth first so I would know what extreme pain felt like. Forty provides the same service on roff<g. ROFLMAO. Is it safe? Joe F.

Let me get this straight: – Some kid, or potentially clueless adult posted an innocent question, but had the mime and/or html set on their browser. – Some ROFFian reamed them for it. – Kid’s parents, grandparents, or potentially same clueless adult posts whining about the treatment. – Some ROFFian reams them for it. – Other ROFFians laugh with glee? Yeah, usenet is rough, but should we really go out of our way to be rough? When there is malice on the newbie’s part I can understand it, but unless I’m missing something on this one, it seems uncalled for…and I’m not generally considered a softie on these things. - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet." - Al Gore

Response:

– Other ROFFians laugh with glee? FWIW, the experience with the dentist wasn’t fun nor was it, in my opinion, called for. If he had tried the extremely cold test on the bad tooth and I didn’t feel it we could have gone right on with the root canal, IMO. I didn’t think I was laughing with glee about anything, then or now.

Wasn’t necessarily replying to your message or portion of the thread. Yours just happened to be the message I had handy after going back and reading the beginning of the thread. - Ken — "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet." - Al Gore

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Fly Fishing
Tags: Fly Fishing

Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » jamaica

jamaica

Question:

Will be in Negril area in late October. Any suggestions for fly opportunities appreciated. Please email. Thanks- Kent

Response:

Enough Jamaica bashing!!.

Don’t like Jamaica, oh no. I love her. Capt. Gary S. Colecchio West Palm Beach "The only people who have any business fishing are young boys and married men. Everyone else should be out getting laid." …I said that.

Response:

Enough Jamaica bashing!!. Don’t like Jamaica, oh no. I love her.

It was a present for my muther…

Response:

Capt. Gary S. Colecchio West Palm Beach "The only people who have any business fishing are young boys and married men. Everyone else should be out getting laid." …I said that.

Response:

At Hedonism II you woun’t have to worry about your fly. Or wearing pants. Capt. Gary S. Colecchio West Palm Beach "The only people who have any business fishing are young boys and married men. Everyone else should be out getting laid." …I said that.

Response:

Enough Jamaica bashing!!. It is an undiscovered resource from the tarpon in Montego Bay to the flats that are not endless sand bottom flats, but the kind that run out from the shore to the reef that rings lots of the island and is immediately accesible from the road that runs along the coast from Ocho Rios to Negril. It helps tremendously to get a local driver who can properly interpret for an American what is happening. Then you’ll actually stop at a jerk stand or roadside bar and step from the road into the water and cast for tarpon etc. while the locals sipping red stripes wonder what the hell you’re doing. I assume that your flying into Montego bay and then busing to Negril. The road is in bad shape, and so the relatively few miles can take a couple of hours. Pay attention to the water out the right side of the bus and you’ll see where to fish. Hey, if you don’t take your rod your not going to fish. I. Clair

Response:

Yes, don’t fly to Jamaica! Lamest island in that neck of the world. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Will be in Negril area in late October. Any suggestions for fly opportunities appreciated. Please email.

Response:

…got a little Rasta buddy down ther who’ll put you right on trans love – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Will be in Negril area in late October. Any suggestions for fly opportunities appreciated. Please email. Thanks- Kent

Response:

Will be in Negril area in late October. Any suggestions for fly opportunities appreciated. Please email.

Was in Jamaica for my honeymoon, so fishing was not on my list of activities that week. However, I’d recommend a Rastafarian named "Lucky" down near Ocho Rios for samples of the local vegetation. In Negril, I’d go to one of the "clothing optional" resorts, then you won’t have to worry about your fly. :-) Joe F.

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Fly Fishing
Tags: Fly Fishing

Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing Gear » S.F. Bay Area Fishing Friend?

S.F. Bay Area Fishing Friend?

Question:

That’s the best troll I have seen in a long time. Raise the age limit another thirty years and include "married" and you can have a dirty old man. Good luck. Ernie

Hey, then I’d qualify! — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

I’m interested in meeting a 40-ish single fly fishing guy in the S.F. Bay Area. I’m a good fly fisher; fit, grounded gal, not a psycho…just would love to have a companion someday

Might be better to post this to alt.ac-dc.lonelyhearts.fun or try joining the chat at www.thecaddis.com tonight at 8pm pacific.. this shop is based in Belmont and a few of the participants are local…. don’t know the marital or physical or mental status of the folks that show up, but like anything else on the ‘Net, y’spends yer $$ and y’takes yer chances… Larry #:)# 40+, married, partially psycho and fit (to be tied)

Response:

Lets be frank, 40ish single straight flyfisherman are scarcer than hen’s teeth in S.F. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d suggest you join a club; people are at least somewhat sane there. Drop by the Casting Pond in Golden Gate Park, right next to the Police Stable near Polo Field on a Sunday morning, and you will find some local fishing club members holding their weekly meets. 40ish single flyfishermen are scarcer than hen’s teeth, but it’s your call…. JT

Response:

Lets be frank, 40ish single straight flyfisherman are scarcer than hen’s teeth in S.F.

No, I’ll be Frank. You’ll be Nancy, — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

50-ish married WM seeks flyfishing supermodel in her 20s (early 20s) in the SF Bay Area. I’m not a psycho. I’m just looking for a meaningful, platonic relationship with a member of the fair sex with common interests. Prefer proven fish catcher with ability to tie knots in 7x and 8x tippet threaded through size 28 flies. Will split the gas 50/50. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

– "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Lets be frank, 40ish single straight flyfisherman are scarcer than hen’s teeth in S.F. Dave

Should a young married couple be frank and earnest ? No one of them should be a woman. Lets face it , all flyfishermen are weirdos. TL MC

Response:

I’m interested in meeting a 40-ish single fly fishing guy in the S.F. Bay Area. I’m a good fly fisher; fit, grounded gal, not a psycho…just would love to have a companion someday for my many No. Calif. fishing weekends. Sorry if this is against some kind of newsgroup rules (not really)… Thanks, and Happy New Year.

check out the two Casting Clubs in the Bay Area – G.G. Casting Club at the Angler’s Lodge in the park, and the Oakland Casting Club at Leona Park in Oakland, they "meet" Sunday morning The folks at the GG can give you directions to the Oakland Club – in the summer they do trips to No Calif., etc. Hope this helps. http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

Response:

ACW: Hell, that’s the most on-topic post I’ve seen this week! But watch out for a guy named Wayno. With an invite like yours, he’ll claim to be "in the SF Bay Area". If you hook up with him, he will definitely leave you…..changed! /daytripper (This was a Public Service Announcement ;^)

Response:

I know a ton of guys in the Bay that fit the bill, unfortunately (for me) I’m only 27. Anyway if your serious I could put you in touch with some of these guys. Forrest http://www.FlyFishingREVIEW.com FlyFishingREVIEW.com Read Reviews on the Fly Fishing Gear you want! Before you buy.

Response:

That’s the best troll I have seen in a long time. Raise the age limit another thirty years and include "married" and you can have a dirty old man. Good luck. Ernie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m interested in meeting a 40-ish single fly fishing guy in the S.F. Bay Area. I’m a good fly fisher; fit, grounded gal, not a psycho…just would love to have a companion someday for my many No. Calif. fishing weekends. Sorry if this is against some kind of newsgroup rules (not really)… Thanks, and Happy New Year.

Response:

I’d suggest you join a club; people are at least somewhat sane there. Drop by the Casting Pond in Golden Gate Park, right next to the Police Stable near Polo Field on a Sunday morning, and you will find some local fishing club members holding their weekly meets. 40ish single flyfishermen are scarcer than hen’s teeth, but it’s your call…. JT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m interested in meeting a 40-ish single fly fishing guy in the S.F. Bay Area. I’m a good fly fisher; fit, grounded gal, not a psycho…just would love to have a companion someday for my many No. Calif. fishing weekends. Sorry if this is against some kind of newsgroup rules (not really)… Thanks, and Happy New Year.

Response:

I just read a chapter in Thomas McGuane’s new book, The Longest Silence, about the San Francisco Fly Casting Club. It’s called "Twilight on the Buffalo Paddock." That guy can write! If you go there, ACW, keep an eye on the underbrush. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Fly Fishing Gear
Tags: Fly Fishing Gear

Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing Reel » New Marryat CMR

New Marryat CMR

Question:

Dear Steve, I read your inquiry regarding the CMR-Reel and I’m sure you’ll be very pleased with it, should you decide to purchase one. You can get all the technical information about all Marryat products including the CMR reel on the Web page at: www.marryat.com Regards, Roger Ritter, Marryat staff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When fly fishing for trout in Sweden, I saw someone fishing with the new Marryat CMR reel made in Switzerland. This guy was extremly pleased with its performance. Before buying one, I would like to hear how others feel about this new product. Steve Turner

Response:

When fly fishing for trout in Sweden, I saw someone fishing with the new Marryat CMR reel made in Switzerland. This guy was extremly pleased with its performance. Before buying one, I would like to hear how others feel about this new product. Steve Turner

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Fly Fishing Reel
Tags: Fly Fishing Reel

Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Saltwater Fly Fishing » Bite Tippet

Bite Tippet

Question:

I would like some advice on bite tippets for Blue Fish and other toothy critters – both fresh and saltwater. I have used various wire type leaders for spin fishing but have no experience with fly fishing for northerns, blue fish etc. Thanks Jim

Response:

For bluefish smaller than 4 pounds you can get away with 30 pound mason or similar hard mono. Anything bigger and you will wnat singlestrand wire. Cehck out any of the good knot books (Mclane or whoever) for ways to join wire to mono. For spanish mackerel heavy mono is fine. King macs wire. Northern pike will let you get away with mono. there are some who say wire is better because it is thinner. In my experience it just scares the fish due to shine. Use clear Mason. Do no use braided wire. No good at all.

Response:

Hi Jim, I think most fly fishers use wire for Barracudas, Northern Pike, Sharks and Bluefish. For Billfish, Tarpon, Snook and Jacks most use heavy/hard mono. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Saltwater Fly Fishing
Tags: Saltwater Fly Fishing

Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » UL chat room

UL chat room

Question:

Please, The nickname is the only REQUIRED field (Which can be anything you want). The rest of the fields are for Identification only and only if you WANT to put them in there. I hate spammers as much as the next guy and report every instance of unsolicited e-mail I receive. Hope this clears this up David. Rob Perry Michigan Ultralight Assoc. Webmaster – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is a great chat room already setup just for ultralight aviators at http://mula.perrydice.com/chat.htm . Rob Perry Michigan Ultralight Assoc. Webmaster Why do you want real names and e-mail addresses? Why not just a nick? Do I smell spam? Regards, DAO

Response:

Message boards are great but, I think a chat room for UL flyers would be a great help, and fun. What do you think? There is a chat room for "Hunting and Fishing" why not UL’s? George

Response:

There is a great chat room already setup just for ultralight aviators at http://mula.perrydice.com/chat.htm . Rob Perry Michigan Ultralight Assoc. Webmaster

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Message boards are great but, I think a chat room for UL flyers would be a great help, and fun. What do you think? There is a chat room for "Hunting and Fishing" why not UL’s? George

Response:

Try this link. It’s Java type chat but there is also access using an IRC chat program. Seems like Wednesday and Thursday evenings are popular. Last time I was there I counted about 10 ultralighters chatting. http://www.mgge-inc.com/fly-ul/ — Brad Blackburn (replace "spur" with "net" to reply) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Message boards are great but, I think a chat room for UL flyers would be a great help, and fun. What do you think? There is a chat room for "Hunting and Fishing" why not UL’s? George

Response:

Only good if your browser is java equipped

Response:

Right! Sorry, I shoulda mentioned that. Rob Perry Michigan Ultralight Assoc. Webmaster Only good if your browser is java equipped

Response:

Thanks, I don’t have Java. Maybe I need to upgrade. George

Response:

there is http://ul-flyer.com/ewchat.html walt

Response:

There is a great chat room already setup just for ultralight aviators at http://mula.perrydice.com/chat.htm . Rob Perry Michigan Ultralight Assoc. Webmaster

Why do you want real names and e-mail addresses? Why not just a nick? Do I smell spam? Regards, DAO

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Fly Fishing
Tags: Fly Fishing

Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing Tying » stogie-injured fly line

stogie-injured fly line

Question:

First response is : Replace the line if it’s 13 months old. How much do you fish this line, I try to give my old (12 months) fly lines to beginners to encourage them. Next, I did the same thing last week, I was fishing False Albacore off of Montauk, LI, NY and layed down a beautiful Cuban on my motor controls so I could tye on a new Clouser. I looked down to see the Tarpon Taper Intermediate line smoking and melting as it laid up against the cigar. I picked up the gar, took a couple of puff, rolled my fingers around the melted area of the fly line and through it at 100 breaking ""albies". I landed four more fish that afternoon with that line and plan to use it again next week. I wouldn’t fish that burned line on a Tarpon (BIG TARPON that is) trip but this burn went right down to the core yet still seems to have plenty of strength. That’s my story and I’m stickin to it! Bonefly

Response:

I’ve repaired fly lines on several occasions but never from a burn. I did cut an almost new fly line in half when I stepped on it with stream cleatl. To repair the cut line I removed the plastic coating on each end, lapped the ends over each other and sewed them together with needle and thread. I followed that with a smooth coat of Zap A Gap.

Now That’s a patch! How did the line hold up? Carl carl

Response:

Hi Carl The line seems to holding up very well. I made the repairs last year and have used the line hard since then with no problems. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Response:

I may have pulled the ultimate bonehead manuveur. I melted my flyline with a cigar while tying on a fly. The central core is not exposed, but the plastic is clearly damaged. The line is 13 months old. My question to this esteemed group (as I am sure someone else has done this before): Will this affect the strength of the line? Should I discard the line? Should I attempt to coat the damaged area with something? Thanks, Steve Haun

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I may have pulled the ultimate bonehead manuveur. I melted my flyline with a cigar while tying on a fly. The central core is not exposed, but the plastic is clearly damaged. The line is 13 months old. My question to this esteemed group (as I am sure someone else has done this before): Will this affect the strength of the line? Should I discard the line? Should I attempt to coat the damaged area with something? Thanks, Steve Haun

Hi Steve, I’ve repaired fly lines on several occasions but never from a burn. I did cut an almost new fly line in half when I stepped on it with stream cleatl. To repair the cut line I removed the plastic coating on each end, lapped the ends over each other and sewed them together with needle and thread. I followed that with a smooth coat of Zap A Gap. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Response:

Yet another reason to stop smoking!

Response:

Steve, As long as the core is ok, you might try Aquaseal over the melted portion. Spread it thin, wet your finger and smooth it out. It should work fine. Almost have done the same on several occasions. Norm

Response:

Message from another bonehead! You can try and fix the burned area with one of the knot glues, I have used Loon Outdoors Knot Coat with success. Give the line a good yank after drying to make sure. But better still, because you can never be sure how far down the heat has penetrated into the core, cut out the burned section. Then by dipping each end of the fly line into nail polish remover soften the outer coatings, and strip off about 2 inches from each end of the line. Using a rough comb or brush ‘flay’ the ends of the exposed cores. Lay these exposed and flayed ends of the cores over each other and using a fly tying bobbin wrap the cores with several layers of thread. Then coat the whipped join with one of the knot glues. Ensure the knot glue is applied over the ends of the line coating on either end of the join to stop water ‘whicking’ up the central core. Good luck! Conficoius say man who smokes into wind with loose flyline gets his own back. — Tony Bishop Fish with Bish Taupo New Zealand – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I may have pulled the ultimate bonehead manuveur. I melted my flyline with a cigar while tying on a fly. The central core is not exposed, but the plastic is clearly damaged. The line is 13 months old. My question to this esteemed group (as I am sure someone else has done this before): Will this affect the strength of the line? Should I discard the line? Should I attempt to coat the damaged area with something? Thanks, Steve Haun

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Fly Fishing Tying
Tags: Fly Fishing Tying

Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing Rods » FFF in trouble???

FFF in trouble???

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [some deleted] The gist was that FFF is in serious money trouble. He didn’t give any details, so I don’t know how it happened, who is/are responsible, or what is being done to correct the situation, but one thing the organization is doing is raising annual dues to $29.00 to counter a dramatic decrease in membership. Greetings Granite. What on earth could the FFF done that would result in a *dramatic decrease* in membership ? "Hmmm….", he ponders deeply. Very interesting indeed. Is "the new flyfishing craze that is sweeping America" ebbing ? One can only hope. TimW

Amen to that. I’m ready to pounce on all that barely used second-hand gear that will undoubtedly flood the classifieds if such an ebb occurs. Brett

Response:

Here is a forwarded response for wondering readers: To: Dave Richards Dave: A copy of your note about the Federation’s troubles was forwarded to me tonight, and I thought your questions deserved an answer. The simple answers are: — Yes, the Federation has financial problems. Who doesn’t? — Yes, membership is down. But that can be remedied. — No, we’re not even close to shutting down. Frankly, I see too many opportunities to even think about closing shop. I stepped in as president in August, not because I have any wish to preside over the Federation’s demise, but because there are so many things I want to do. And I intend to be quite aggressive in doing them. A few examples: — The FFF Clubwire. Quite an innovative news service intended to help club and council newsletter editors, who in the past have had to beg, borrow, steal material to fill their pages. Now, they have routine access to information from the Federation about education activities, conservation issues, Federation news and fly-fishing in general. This free service is available by E-mail to every FFF chapter and has been getting enthusiastic response since its introduction this past summer. — The Flyfisher is being redesigned to deliver a more-targeted message to our members. You’ll see the first changes in this upcoming issue. — You mentioned the upcoming increase in dues, but you’ve been given misleading information about the reason. I asked the board of directors in August to approve the increase, not to bail out our finances, but to allow the national office to begin paying money back to the councils. Simply put, national will rebate $5 back to the councils for every member they add as off Aug. 1, 1996. I don’t deny that I hope such a program will inspire the councils to work harder to generate more members, but the reasons go beyond that. The councils carry a great deal of responsibility and do a lot of the Federation’s work, and it’s about time they started getting some financial support from national. — In the past year or so, we’ve distributed something like $20,000-$25,000 in free rods and lines for clubs to use in their education programs. Perhaps you’re more interested in conservation matters. If so, it’s that much more important to keep the Federation around. We were instrumental in having the National Marine Fisheries Service invoke the Endangered Species Act in protecting West Coast steelhead this year; we sponsored the first symposium ever on saving searun cutthroat trout; we have been active in banning gill nets along the Gulf of Mexico; we joined a coalition to get the Magnuson Act reauthorized by Congress; we are sponsors of next year’s Wild Trout symposium; we are the experts on the relicensing of hydro dams and have been especially effective with this issue in the Great Lakes area; and we were an important voice in opposing the New World Mine adjacent to Yellowstone Park. And in a couple weeks, we’re hosting the only public forum (via our newly opened International Fly Fishing Center) designed to explain what’s going on with the damaged spring creeks near Livingston, Mont. We won’t take sides in this difficult situation, but we think it’s important that everyone have the chance to hear all the arguments. Please accept my apologies if I’m pummeling you with stuff. But I’m at work, it’s late and I’m trying to go home. If you still need answers, let me know. I’m happy to give them. In the meantime, let me assure you that the problems we face can and will be handled, and you’re going to see a much more active Federation than you might have otherwise expected. And pardon me if I revert to one of my favorite Mark Twain quotes: The news of our death is much exaggerated. Regards, Tom Jindra

Response:

I received a fairly disturbing communique recently from the head of the local chapter of the Federation of Fly Fishers. I’m not sure when it arrived since I was out of town for a couple of weeks. It could be old news, although I doubt it. The gist was that FFF is in serious money trouble. He didn’t give any details, so I don’t know how it happened, who is/are responsible, or what is being done to correct the situation, but one thing the organization is doing is raising annual dues to $29.00 to counter a dramatic decrease in membership. I’m also a member of another national orgainzation unrelated to fly fishing that has undergone a similar near-disaster and has recovered. In that case the financial disaster was directly related to bad advice from a tax attorney and fiscal incompetence on the part of the yahoos running the show. It seems likely that something similar has tripped up FFF. I’m not interested in pointing fingers, except to say that the people responsible for mismanagement need to be put someplace where they can do no further harm and replaced with others who have a bit more savvy. Then there is also the question of whether the organization can or even should be saved. Are there any FFF members out there with more info? Please email me directly. Dave Richards

Response:

[some deleted] The gist was that FFF is in serious money trouble. He didn’t give any details, so I don’t know how it happened, who is/are responsible, or what is being done to correct the situation, but one thing the organization is doing is raising annual dues to $29.00 to counter a dramatic decrease in membership.

Greetings Granite. What on earth could the FFF done that would result in a *dramatic decrease* in membership ? "Hmmm….", he ponders deeply. Very interesting indeed. Is "the new flyfishing craze that is sweeping America" ebbing ? One can only hope. TimW

Response:

: The gist was that FFF is in serious money trouble. He didn’t give any : details, so I don’t know how it happened, who is/are responsible, or what : is being done to correct the situation, but one thing the organization is : doing is raising annual dues to $29.00 to counter a dramatic decrease in : membership. Taxes? : I’m also a member of another national orgainzation unrelated to fly : fishing that has undergone a similar near-disaster and has recovered. In : that case the financial disaster was directly related to bad advice from : a tax attorney and fiscal incompetence on the part of the yahoos running : the show. It seems likely that something similar has tripped up FFF. Mmmmm, attorney-types, financial institutions, fiscal incompetence, and "yahoos" running the show. : I’m not interested in pointing fingers, except to say that the people : responsible for mismanagement need to be put someplace where they can do : no further harm and replaced with others who have a bit more savvy. Then : there is also the question of whether the organization can or even should : be saved. I think ‘Merica is worth saving! : Are there any FFF members out there with more info? Please email me : directly. : Dave Richards Not to muddy up Dave’s request for info, but reading his post looks like a study in current politics. It REALLY stood out. You’re on to something Dave. Remove all the incompetent leeches and start over. Bill You’re either for Perot-type changes or YOU are the problem.

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Fly Fishing Rods
Tags: Fly Fishing Rods

Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Software: Free Fishing Log

Software: Free Fishing Log

Question:

It’s pretty sad when the first post to a new group, fly tying, is SPAM. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The FISHING LOG is a Powerful Software Program for Windows It tracks every aspect of your fishing trips/sessions in great detail. It is colorful, extremely powerful and very user friendly. Keeps track of just about anything you can think of in Fresh Water or Salt. It is a large program of research quality but you can just keep up the sections YOU wish. Export data to other programs for analysis, printing and charting. The best part is that if you download it yourself it is FREE. Mind that the last characters in the WWW address are all UPPERCASE! Bob Sheedy Master Angler http://www.mbnet.mb.ca/~sheedyr/FISHING.HTM

Response:

The FISHING LOG is a Powerful Software Program for Windows It tracks every aspect of your fishing trips/sessions in great detail. It is colorful, extremely powerful and very user friendly. Keeps track of just about anything you can think of in Fresh Water or Salt. It is a large program of research quality but you can just keep up the sections YOU wish. Export data to other programs for analysis, printing and charting. The best part is that if you download it yourself it is FREE. Mind that the last characters in the WWW address are all UPPERCASE! Bob Sheedy Master Angler http://www.mbnet.mb.ca/~sheedyr/FISHING.HTM

Response:

Author: admin on
Category: Fly Fishing
Tags: Fly Fishing

Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki

Does anyone here read these posts?

Question:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Related Posts

Help

Question:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Related Posts

jamaica

Question:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Related Posts

S.F. Bay Area Fishing Friend?

Question:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Response:

Related Posts

New Marryat CMR

Question: