Question:

I’m planning a 9 day flyfishing trip to the northern Calif area and plan to visit areas like  Hat Creek, McCloud, Truckee, Owens, etc. When would be the best time to do this between early August and October? Thanks.

Response:

Skiroc,    Any time after school starts. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning a 9 day flyfishing trip to the northern Calif area and plan to visit areas like  Hat Creek, McCloud, Truckee, Owens, etc. When would be the best time to do this between early August and October? Thanks.

Response:

To minimize backroad travel. I would checkout deer hunting seasons on the places you are going. FWIW, if you are going to fish Hat Creek, and maybe wonder on East and fish Fall River, then I suggest you head on East to Alturas in California’s most Northeast county then go South on 395 to Likely California and go East into the Warner Mountains Wilderness area.  They have a Red Band strain of the McCloud Rainbow that is truly a magnificent fish to catch and release. There are a number of lakes and streams in the area that are an easy hike in with float tube.  Due to the sensitive nature of the habitat of these very special animals, this is all of the info I’ll post but for more info e-mail me. Compared to the hordes of folk at Hat Creek, Truckee and Walker, this area will knock your socks off at the lack of people.  I think Alturas, the county seat of Lompoc county has, uh 3 stoplights?  This beautiful part of the West (NW Nevada, SCentral Oregon NE California) is remote 4×4, tent camping off the road fishing on small high mountain streams and high country lakes. Unlike those other places, when the jokers run out of Powerbait here, there aint no 7/11 nearby! Enjoy! John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning a 9 day flyfishing trip to the northern Calif area and plan to visit areas like  Hat Creek, McCloud, Truckee, Owens, etc. When would be the best time to do this between early August and October? Thanks.

Response:

Question:

My physical intuition, such as it is, tells me that a short, stiff mono buttsection tied to the flyline with a nail knot or needle knot is the best rig. Anything "floppy" like a loop-to-loop connection is going to spoil the smooth transfer and dissipation of energy. Completely wrong, I’m afraid. You want floppy…

But not a-section-of-line, followed by a-more-floppy-section-of-line, followed by a-less-floppy-section-of-line.  The more "floppy" the center section is, the more likely it is to hinge.  So I think rw’s intuition is basically correct, assuming loo-to-loop connections are floppy, which I don’t think they necessarily are. …most effective transmission of the diminishing energy that was originally put into the cast. This is what gives optimum turnover. Stiff is NOT what you want: try splicing a short length of old carbon fibre rod top into the end of you line and see what ’stiff’ does for the turnover!

It’s not stiff as in dead stiff.  It’s relatively stiff for it’s diameter. Thus, a smaller diameter than your fly line can have the same absolute flexibility/stiffness as your fly line.  I agree, you don’t want the leader butt stiffer than your fly line, but you want it made out of a stiffer *material*.  Alternatively you could use thicker, more flexible leader butt that still allows taper to a thin tippet. Regards, Jeff

Response:

- My physical intuition, such as it is, tells me that a short, stiff mono buttsection tied to the flyline with a nail knot or needle knot is the best rig. Anything "floppy" like a loop-to-loop connection is going to spoil the smooth transfer and dissipation of energy.

Completely wrong, I’m afraid. You want floppy and you want gradual reduction in unit mass down the line taper and through the leader to the tippet for the most effective transmission of the diminishing energy that was originally put into the cast. This is what gives optimum turnover. Stiff is NOT what you want: try splicing a short length of old carbon fibre rod top into the end of you line and see what ’stiff’ does for the turnover! How do you suppose the energy of a wave passes through a body of water?  Not a lot of ’stiff’ involved there! Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

There you go Jeff gettin’ serious, when I’m tryin’ to have some fun! Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My physical intuition, such as it is, tells me that a short, stiff mono buttsection tied to the flyline with a nail knot or needle knot is the best rig. Anything "floppy" like a loop-to-loop connection is going to spoil the smooth transfer and dissipation of energy. Completely wrong, I’m afraid. You want floppy… But not a-section-of-line, followed by a-more-floppy-section-of-line, followed by a-less-floppy-section-of-line.  The more "floppy" the center section is, the more likely it is to hinge.  So I think rw’s intuition is basically correct, assuming loo-to-loop connections are floppy, which I don’t think they necessarily are. …most effective transmission of the diminishing energy that was originally put into the cast. This is what gives optimum turnover. Stiff is NOT what you want: try splicing a short length of old carbon fibre rod top into the end of you line and see what ’stiff’ does for the turnover! It’s not stiff as in dead stiff.  It’s relatively stiff for it’s diameter. Thus, a smaller diameter than your fly line can have the same absolute flexibility/stiffness as your fly line.  I agree, you don’t want the leader butt stiffer than your fly line, but you want it made out of a stiffer *material*.  Alternatively you could use thicker, more flexible leader butt that still allows taper to a thin tippet. Regards, Jeff

Response:

The important thing is to have a smooth transition of mass from flyline to leader.

Even though conventional wisdom say stiff, Lefty Kreh for one says exactly what you do – been experimenting with less stiff, more massive butts myself.. (umm, did that sound a bit weird?) here’s an abrupt doubling of mass along the loops, and a quadrupling of mass at the join. Not good.

makes sense This is all theory and supposition, though. The acid test is practice. In my experience, loop-to-loop connections do not cast well. I’d never use them for dry fly fishing.

I hear ya. Regards, Jeff

Response:

…loo-to-loop connection….

The loo-to-loop connection is typically a generous serving of vodka or similar spirits which invariably results in a great deal of stiffness.  However, this does not last.

Response:

…have you been talking to my wife? jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The loo-to-loop connection is typically a generous serving of vodka or similar spirits which invariably results in a great deal of stiffness.  However, this does not last.

Response:

There you go Jeff gettin’ serious, when I’m tryin’ to have some fun!

That’s OK, I reamed you on your blackbeard’s ghost thing just to keep it in balance Regards, Jeff

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My physical intuition, such as it is, tells me that a short, stiff mono buttsection tied to the flyline with a nail knot or needle knot is the best rig. Anything "floppy" like a loop-to-loop connection is going to spoil the smooth transfer and dissipation of energy. Completely wrong, I’m afraid. You want floppy… But not a-section-of-line, followed by a-more-floppy-section-of-line, followed by a-less-floppy-section-of-line.  The more "floppy" the center section is, the more likely it is to hinge.  So I think rw’s intuition is basically correct, assuming loo-to-loop connections are floppy, which I don’t think they necessarily are.

It must be that weird British sense of humor, Jeff. …most effective transmission of the diminishing energy that was originally put into the cast. This is what gives optimum turnover. Stiff is NOT what you want: try splicing a short length of old carbon fibre rod top into the end of you line and see what ’stiff’ does for the turnover! It’s not stiff as in dead stiff.  It’s relatively stiff for it’s diameter. Thus, a smaller diameter than your fly line can have the same absolute flexibility/stiffness as your fly line.  I agree, you don’t want the leader butt stiffer than your fly line, but you want it made out of a stiffer *material*.  Alternatively you could use thicker, more flexible leader butt that still allows taper to a thin tippet.

I agree with Tony up to a point, I suppose. The important thing is to have a smooth transition of mass from flyline to leader. Stiffness is secondary, but I prefer something about as stiff as the flyline. (NOT a section of graphite tip!) If you look at mass, though, the loop-to-loop connections are even worse. There’s an abrupt doubling of mass along the loops, and a quadrupling of mass at the join. Not good. This is all theory and supposition, though. The acid test is practice. In my experience, loop-to-loop connections do not cast well. I’d never use them for dry fly fishing. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

As you fish throughout the day, the blood clots should dissolve and your leader ought to smooth out somewhat. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If it is tapered properly it casts quite well. Lot better than bloody knotted horsehair anyway. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

That is a line, not a leader, and when properly controlled does not touch the water, so the stuff stays bloody. Clots are sometimes difficult I agree. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

I have two rods and would like to nail knot the mono to both…one is a 3wt and the other is a 6 wt. Is this Maxima leader material or regular fishing line?

280 yards of Maxima Chameleon is about $6. 30 yards of same is $3 Chameleon is stiff, Ultragreen is limp but I’m not sure how stiff their Clear line is. As far as butt recommendations, it depends on your fly line.  I use a 15 lb test Maxima butt for my Wulff Triangle Taper 3/4 but 20lb is better for my Airflo Long Belly 4.  Try 25 or 30 for your 6 wt. Mu

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jeff, I have two rods and would like to nail knot the mono to both…one is a 3wt and the other is a 6 wt. Is this Maxima leader material or regular fishing line? Thanks, Tim Tim, it’s leader material but it won’t work worth a damn nail knotted to your rods waldo

But I sure would save a lot of cash not buying fly line….hmmm…wonder how it would cast???:)

Response:

If it is tapered properly it casts quite well. Lot better than bloody knotted horsehair anyway. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Nail knotting it to the rods will result in broken rods, or very short overpowered casts, knot it to the line ! The Maxima referred to is monofilament fishing line. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Question:

Hi Indy; I live in Wisconsin.  While some folks here may disapprove of fishing for gills on the redds, it’s certainly not true of all of us.  Most of the people I know do it.  The limit for bluegills has been reduced to 25 per day in Wisconsin; still more than enough, I think.  I can’t fault anything else you have to say on the subject, but personally I prefer to use lighter tippet…2 or 3 lb.  I believe it spooks the fish less and makes it easier to use tiny flies effectively.  I also like to gut and scale the fish rather than filleting because you always lose some of the meat when you fillet, and I want it all!

Response:

Hi Indy; I live in Wisconsin.  While some folks here may disapprove of fishing for gills on the redds, it’s certainly not true of all of us.  Most of the people I know do it.  The limit for bluegills has been reduced to 25 per day in Wisconsin; still more than enough, I think.  I can’t fault anything else you have to say on the subject, but personally I prefer to use lighter tippet…2 or 3 lb.  I believe it spooks the fish less and makes it easier to use tiny flies effectively.  I also like to gut and scale the fish rather than filleting because you always lose some of the meat when you fillet, and I want it all!

Hi Wolfgang, I sometimes go to 4 lb. but that 2 to 3 lb. line breaks too often on big gills, especially here in Florida.  I had to go to my 8 weight fly rod and 6 lb. leader just to get those big ones out of the weeds. The lighter leader just doesn’t get it.  Those big gills are bedding here right now, by the way, and I’m going out this morning.  Fried a mess of fillets on Sunday night.  Tres bon!  There are some excellent big bluegill holes in Badger State up in Douglas Co. where I formerly lived.  Sorry I got the ‘gill limit wrong.  Things change.  Best wishes. — Don Jordan "The Real Indiana Jones" http://realindy.com

Response:

Hi all. Just wondering when do you like to fish for gills. I live in West Michigan.  Please give me a tip. Thank you.

Response:

my best gills are caught in mid may to end of june

Response:

Anytime, anywhere!  Here in Wisconsin (and in Michigan, I believe) there is no closed season on bluegills.  A lot of people like to fish for them through the ice and they get a lot of them that way.  Personally, I don’t care for hard water fishing…too cold standing out on the ice…but to each his own.  I started fly fishing about fifteen years ago and quickly discovered that it is THE best method for catching bluegills; they LOVE bugs.  The best fishing is in the early mornings and late evenings during the spawning season.  Bluegills are very aggressive about protecting their redds.  I have seen them come up off the nest and bite ducks who happened to swimming nearby.  Apparently even small bugs are seen as a threat and are vigorously attacked.  For reasons unknown to me the average size of fish I catch is considerably greater during the spawn too.  Maybe because it’s the biggest that do most of the breeding.  Here in Southern Wisconsin the gills spawn early, starting sometime in May most years, though it varies a bit according to the weather.  When I lived up in the central part of the state a few years ago it was usually late May or early June.  And of course, in the northern reaches of WI and MI it will be later yet. The hot fishing lasts until the beginning of the hot weather of summer, at which time things taper off somewhat, though there are still days when the action can be phenomenal. All in all, I think the best policy is to get out and fish whenever possible.  Regardless of all other considerations, the people who catch the most fish are the ones who spend the most time fishing.  If you have never used a fly rod for bluegills, do so as soon as possible!  It’s about the most fun I’ve ever had without being naked, and as a matter of fact…..uh…..hm….maybe we won’t go there. Good luck. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all. Just wondering when do you like to fish for gills. I live in West Michigan.  Please give me a tip. Thank you.

Response:

I grew up in LaPorte, Indiana (somewhat close to West Michigan). In LaPorte, we have a lot of lakes.  I don’t live there now unfortunately or I’d be fishing every weekend! When I grew up, my father, grandfather and I used to fish all the time…we caught bluegill and perch from March all the way through to October.  The best times seemed to be spring and fall. And, we found that the best nearly always tended to be worms dug up from the garden or there were times when grubs were the best. Ted Hi all. Just wondering when do you like to fish for gills. I live in West Michigan.  Please give me a tip. Thank you.

Response:

Hi all. Just wondering when do you like to fish for gills. I live in West Michigan.  Please give me a tip. Thank you.

Hi Trudude, The absolute very best time to catch bluegill is when they are bedding. I know some guys up north may abhor this practice, but it is the standard approach everywhere from Illinois to Florida.  They bed in shallow water and their nests are usually visible.  The most fun is to catch them on a fly rod.  If you’re in a lake with huge gills in the 10 plus inch category, you will want at least a no.5 weight rod and at least 6 lb. test leader.  I like small poppers and foam body spiders,,,green, white, black, yellow.  Sometimes a sinking fly will work better.  I have had great sucess on a standard trout nymph with just a tiny, tiny bit of weight on it.  If you aren’t a fly guy, get an ultralight spinning outfit and cast 1/32nd jigs or 1/32nd oz. spinner baits.  If you’re a live bait guy, crickets are best during spawn, but anything will work.  Redworms when it is slow, on the bottom. Go to http://realindy.com/Previous.htm  read about casting jigs and spinners for bluegill.  Good pix too. Bluegill spawn from Florida to Ontario, beginning in April in the South, but probably peak out in May/June at your lattitude with emphasis on June.  They are the most active during the full moon. Bluegill are far and away the best eating fish extant, in my opinion, and most ‘gill anglers like them filleted rather than beheaded,scaled and gutted, etc.  There are no bag limits on them in the South, but Wisconsin had a 50-fish limit when I lived there. Catching big bluegill on light tackle is the most fun I have every year, and that’s counting fly fishing for trout in the Rockies and muskies in northern Wisconsin.  A 10-inch bluegill puts up an incredible fight and if you ever hit those 11 and 12 inch hogs, buddy they will flat whip your butt! I hope you catch a big mess of ‘em this spring.  Happy dining! — Don Jordan "The Real Indiana Jones" http://realindy.com

Response:

Sorry about the 2 messages, but, bluegill aren’t hard to catch, as a matter of fact they’re quite easy.

When they’re biting. There are times when they’re just not interested. —  << << << << << << << <<  << << << << << << << <<

Response:

About you r bluegill fishing.

Response:

Sorry about the 2 messages, but, bluegill aren’t hard to catch, as a matter of fact they’re quite easy. That’s just about the only thing I catch. All you have to do is find a school of bluegill, put a bobber on and a small jig. (Make sure your bobber is situated right. They feed by the bottom or in the middle of the water). cast out in the school and wait. ( oh yes I forgot the most important part : Hook a Berkley "smelly" plastic worm on the jig. they come in swirly tails and grug. use the swirly tails.

Response:

Question:

I was noticing that someone posted a question earlier in this newsgroup asking if there were any books illustrating the lifecycles of flies in certain parts of the US at various times of the year.  I am also looking for info on a good beginning FF setup.  Therefore, if anyone has some good book suggestions on how to choose the right fly depending on where you are and what you’re fishing for as well as any books/catalogs that describe FF equipment and techniques, please post them. Thanks in advance, The Iceburg

Response:

FlyFishing for Dummies is pretty damn good and as simple as things get. Tim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was noticing that someone posted a question earlier in this newsgroup asking if there were any books illustrating the lifecycles of flies in certain parts of the US at various times of the year.  I am also looking for info on a good beginning FF setup.  Therefore, if anyone has some good book suggestions on how to choose the right fly depending on where you are and what you’re fishing for as well as any books/catalogs that describe FF equipment and techniques, please post them. Thanks in advance, The Iceburg

Response:

Question:

Does anyone have any tips on flyfishing at Gold Lake (hwy 58) in Oregon?

Response:

Does anyone have any tips on flyfishing at Gold Lake (hwy 58) in Oregon?

1. Take plenty of mosquito juice. 2. Small nymphs, dries, chronimids. 3. Enjoy Lake is full of 8" brookies and fewer larger rainbow.

Response:

Question:

thanks for clarifying those aspects of your post I didn’t quite grasp re: comets. here in rainy BC we don’t get to see the sky much! Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – :   : : So? Why don’t you show the kind of guts we’ve shown in BC and enact : : regulations that reduce the level of pressure on those rivers; those rivers : :  belong to the residents of those states! Check out the regs for BC rivers : :  like the Dean! Non-residents have to pay more; they have to use a guide : : they may have to enter a lottery for a right to fish – : : : and yes I support the use of lottery entrance where the demand for access : : exceeds the resources capacity!   : : : Ralph, IMHO, lottery and fee based restrictions you advocate run contrary to : many of the arguments you made in your post.  These methods will result in : only the elite getting access, because the non-elite cannot afford guides and : expensive fees for a few hours of fishing.   : Whoever the elite are?  Is a fellow who hires a guide for 2 days on the : SanJuan but never at any other point in the year a member of the elite?  Are : your own irrational prejudices showing through?  Personally I have never : hired a guide.        I have, made me feel elite and I did not necessarily like it.  Point is that the outfitters do create limits on access to the people not wishing to spend that kind of money. : Personally I would have no problem with paying more for a licence than I do : now or paying a stream fee that is reasonable and doesn’t make it impossible : for most fishers to enjoy a good number of days on the water.        Neither do I.  I do not mind if the access is equally open to all of us, however the local outfitters are capable of and frequently do consume all the access available on private-fee fisheries and thus make the effective cost much,much higher.  That prices the opportunity out of reach for most. : My point is:  Tim and yourself seem obsessed with the problems of a few : waters.  To solve that problem they would radically alter our access to all : waters and even more radically alter how we act on them; force us to kill, : force us to be instruments of harvest and not sportsmen.        I do not, nor have I ever advocated **forcing** anyone to kill.  I limit my kill to as low a level as I can.  I have not consumed a trout for food in as long as I can remember.  I advocate allowing limited harvest rather than pure C&R.  I thought my post had made that clear. : I argue it is possible to regulate waters such as this individually to : reduce the problem and force anglers to spread out but overall maintain : general access and a pluralistic approach to harvest issues that allow : individuals to follow a variety of viewpoints.        This is precisely what I meant to say, only I argue that pure C&R is not the only approach and in most cases, it is unjustifyable. : If you don’t like it any more give it up and take up bird watching!        Thanks, but I prefer comets. — Hewlett Packard, ESL R&D, MS55 Ft. Collins, CO  80525

Response:

:   : : So? Why don’t you show the kind of guts we’ve shown in BC and enact : : regulations that reduce the level of pressure on those rivers; those rivers : :  belong to the residents of those states! Check out the regs for BC rivers : :  like the Dean! Non-residents have to pay more; they have to use a guide : : they may have to enter a lottery for a right to fish – : : : and yes I support the use of lottery entrance where the demand for access : : exceeds the resources capacity!   : : : Ralph, IMHO, lottery and fee based restrictions you advocate run contrary to : many of the arguments you made in your post.  These methods will result in : only the elite getting access, because the non-elite cannot afford guides and : expensive fees for a few hours of fishing.   : Whoever the elite are?  Is a fellow who hires a guide for 2 days on the : SanJuan but never at any other point in the year a member of the elite?  Are : your own irrational prejudices showing through?  Personally I have never : hired a guide.         I have, made me feel elite and I did not necessarily like it.  Point is that the outfitters do create limits on access to the people not wishing to spend that kind of money. : Personally I would have no problem with paying more for a licence than I do : now or paying a stream fee that is reasonable and doesn’t make it impossible : for most fishers to enjoy a good number of days on the water.         Neither do I.  I do not mind if the access is equally open to all of us, however the local outfitters are capable of and frequently do consume all the access available on private-fee fisheries and thus make the effective cost much,much higher.  That prices the opportunity out of reach for most. : My point is:  Tim and yourself seem obsessed with the problems of a few : waters.  To solve that problem they would radically alter our access to all : waters and even more radically alter how we act on them; force us to kill, : force us to be instruments of harvest and not sportsmen.         I do not, nor have I ever advocated **forcing** anyone to kill.  I limit my kill to as low a level as I can.  I have not consumed a trout for food in as long as I can remember.  I advocate allowing limited harvest rather than pure C&R.  I thought my post had made that clear. : I argue it is possible to regulate waters such as this individually to : reduce the problem and force anglers to spread out but overall maintain : general access and a pluralistic approach to harvest issues that allow : individuals to follow a variety of viewpoints.         This is precisely what I meant to say, only I argue that pure C&R is not the only approach and in most cases, it is unjustifyable. : If you don’t like it any more give it up and take up bird watching!         Thanks, but I prefer comets. — Hewlett Packard, ESL R&D, MS55 Ft. Collins, CO  80525

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here in the northern Sweden I’m not obliged to release the browns, graylings or char I catch. I’ll do it anyway, out of respect of nature Hans, I am afraid that you too have been lulled in to believing that the disrespect of hooking nature in the face with a hook can be mitigated by its release.  This ‘respect of nature’ argument is the most ludicrous and hypocritical reason for pure C&R that I can think of.  If you *truly* respected our wild friends, you would *not* fish for them, you would leave them alone, would you not ? Respectfully, — TimW Halfordian Golfer

No Tim, I haven’t been lulled into anything. It’s a personal belief that has grown and matured during my 20 years of flyfishing. If C&R is done properly, i.e without touching the fish when possible and reducing the time of the fight, it beats the hell out of C&K. You’re right about one thing – it is best to leave them alone. Knocking everything you catch on the head is however both much more disrespectful to the pray than letting them go, and is simply a practise that belongs to the past. Sincerely, Hans Edman, Umea, Sweden

Response:

No Tim, I haven’t been lulled into anything. It’s a personal belief that has grown and matured during my 20 years of flyfishing. If C&R is done properly, i.e without touching the fish when possible and reducing the time of the fight, it beats the hell out of C&K. You’re right about one thing – it is best to leave them alone. Knocking everything you catch on the head is however both much more disrespectful to the pray than letting them go, and is simply a practise that belongs to the past.

Hans – You can’t seriously debate with someone who *screams* about how heinous it is to scar a fish’s face and then let it go, but who freely admits to dragging fish around on a stringer while float-tubing because it keeps them fresh. Hell, use of a priest to euthanize the fish would be much *more* respectful and considerate than that. The *only* thing important to this guy is to go on feeling good about his right to kill fish when and wherever he wants. Don’t waste your breath treating with him or your time thinking he has a coherent point to argue. Only day before yesterday, Tim W said: ….and now I’m movin’ on…you either get it or you don’t…

And this, in debate terms, is called ‘begging the question’. I rest my case. and then said: No more C&R diatribe from me…

QED I am only trying to clue you in because I don’t recall seeing your name on posts before (forgive me if I am mistaken). I am probably rash in posting this, because, as you may have observed, we’ve been trying to shut debate on this topic down for a while (and maybe drop the animosity level a notch or two). May work, may not. Here’s hoping. — Lon Hall Applied Intelligence Group, Inc. Home #: (405)359-1556 Work #: (405)936-2389 "Eat the rich. The poor are tough and stringy."

Response:

Lon Hall writes: Hans – You can’t seriously debate with someone who *screams* about how heinous it is to scar a fish’s face and then let it go, but who freely admits to dragging fish around on a stringer while float-tubing because it keeps them fresh. Hell, use of a priest to euthanize the fish would be much *more* respectful and considerate than that. The *only* thing important to this guy is to go on feeling good about his right to kill fish when and wherever he wants. Don’t waste your breath treating with him or your time thinking he has a coherent point to argue.

(snip) I am only trying to clue you in because I don’t recall seeing your name on posts before (forgive me if I am mistaken). I am probably rash in posting this, because, as you may have observed, we’ve been trying to shut debate on this topic down for a while (and maybe drop the animosity level a notch or two).

Thanks Lon, for dropping the animosity level down a notch or two. jim

Response:

Well spoken, Ralph! Here in the northern Sweden I’m not obliged to release the browns, graylings or char I catch. I’ll do it anyway, out of respect of nature Hans, I am afraid that you too have been lulled in to believing that the disrespect of hooking nature in the face with a hook can be mitigated by its release.  This ‘respect of nature’ argument is the most ludicrous and hypocritical reason for pure C&R that I can think of.  If you *truly* respected our wild friends, you would *not* fish for them, you would leave them alone, would you not ?

Sounds like your argument is "If you hook it, kill it – otherwise don’t fish". Gee, I sure hope you never lose control of a cast and end up hooking yourself.  "Yipes!  Hooked myself!  Better go shoot myself now…" <BANG!  <thud  (I can see the obituary page now – "Catch and Kill Fisherman Was True To His Sport".  :-) If I followed that logic where I fish most often I’d soon be out of fish.  It’s a small pond that probably has only a dozen or so good-sized bass in it.  If I killed each one I caught there wouldn’t be many left now, so I put ‘em back after I catch ‘em. My point is that what’s correct for you may not be correct for others in different situations, and vice versa.  Ah well, diff’rent strokes and all… — Bob Jarvis Mail addresses hacked to foil automailers! Remove ‘_spamless’ from reply address

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well spoken, Ralph! Here in the northern Sweden I’m not obliged to release the browns, graylings or char I catch. I’ll do it anyway, out of respect of nature Hans, I am afraid that you too have been lulled in to believing that the disrespect of hooking nature in the face with a hook can be mitigated by its release.  This ‘respect of nature’ argument is the most ludicrous and hypocritical reason for pure C&R that I can think of.  If you *truly* respected our wild friends, you would *not* fish for them, you would leave them alone, would you not ? Respectfully, — TimW Halfordian Golfer

           TIM,    IF YOU BELIEVE WHAT YOU JUST WROTE THAN YOU SHOULD RESPECT THE FISH AND QUIT TRYING TO CATCH THEM  OR ARE YOU JUST ANOTHER  HYPOCRITE WHO LIKES TO HEAR HIMSELF PASS GAS.                    HARV

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip : – I WILL NOT ACCEPT BEING LABELLED AS A GREEDY PERSON BY SOMEONE :    WHOSE AVOWED INTENTION IS TO ENACT RULES AND REGULATIONS THAT :   LIMIT FISHING OPPORTUNITIES TO A FEW SO HIS PLEASURE IS IMPEDED BY :     THE MINIMUM NUMBER OF PEOPLE POSSIBLE! : You are out to enhance your pleasure at the expense of the pleasure of : others! <snip Tim, correct me if I am wrong….  I is my understanding from reading Tim’s posts, that he does not oppose releasing a fish…  But rather opposes the existence of *pure* C&R fisheries.  Pure C&R fisheries lead to many evils, scarred & damaged fish, unusuall

Tim has certainly stated clearly that by lottery or by some enforced c&k regulation on all waters he wants to see fishing pressure reduced to the minimum number of anglers per mile. he has been all over the map on how to do this but Tim clearly has a prejudice against others who use the waters in ways he does not favour and will stoop to all sorts of regulations etc to get them off so he can enjoy his sport on his terms at their expense. : So? Why don’t you show the kind of guts we’ve shown in BC and enact : regulations that reduce the level of pressure on those rivers; those rivers :  belong to the residents of those states! Check out the regs for BC rivers :  like the Dean! Non-residents have to pay more; they have to use a guide : they may have to enter a lottery for a right to fish – : and yes I support the use of lottery entrance where the demand for access : exceeds the resources capacity!   Ralph, IMHO, lottery and fee based restrictions you advocate run contrary to many of the arguments you made in your post.  These methods will result in only the elite getting access, because the non-elite cannot afford guides and expensive fees for a few hours of fishing.  

Whoever the elite are? Is a fellow who hires a guide for 2 days on the SanJuan but never at any other point in the year a member of the elite? Are your own irrational prejudices showing through? Personally I have never hired a guide. Personally I would have no problem with paying more for a licence than I do now or paying a stream fee that is reasonable and doesn’t make it impossible for most fishers to enjoy a good number of days on the water. My point is: Tim and yourself seem obsessed with the problems of a few waters. To solve that problem they would radically alter our access to all waters and even more radically alter how we act on them; force us to kill, force us to be instruments of harvest and not sportsmen. I argue it is possible to regulate waters such as this individually to reduce the problem and force anglers to spread out but overall maintain general access and a pluralistic approach to harvest issues that allow individuals to follow a variety of viewpoints. After jousting with Don Quixote for a number of months I still don’t know what his bottom line is or what he is really after. I find increasingly I am dealing with a point of view that is self righteous, closed minded, hypocritical, sees the resource and the sport as exclusively for those that share the point of view and shifts and gets more radical as one finds legitimate criticism of it’s basic proposals. I also find it is a point of view that assumes it has a sort of papal infallability and is beyond criticism. just look at his response to the criticism of his use of stringers. Any level of agony inflicted on fish is justified as long as he is the one who is inflicting it! Because he eats the catch he has given himself carte blanche to something approaching sadism. If you don’t like it any more give it up and take up bird watching! Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — Hewlett Packard, ESL R&D, MS55 Ft. Collins, CO  80525

Response:

Well spoken, Ralph! Here in the northern Sweden I’m not obliged to release the browns, graylings or char I catch. I’ll do it anyway, out of respect of nature

Hans, I am afraid that you too have been lulled in to believing that the disrespect of hooking nature in the face with a hook can be mitigated by its release.  This ‘respect of nature’ argument is the most ludicrous and hypocritical reason for pure C&R that I can think of.  If you *truly* respected our wild friends, you would *not* fish for them, you would leave them alone, would you not ? Respectfully, — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

<snip : – I WILL NOT ACCEPT BEING LABELLED AS A GREEDY PERSON BY SOMEONE :    WHOSE AVOWED INTENTION IS TO ENACT RULES AND REGULATIONS THAT :   LIMIT FISHING OPPORTUNITIES TO A FEW SO HIS PLEASURE IS IMPEDED BY :     THE MINIMUM NUMBER OF PEOPLE POSSIBLE! : You are out to enhance your pleasure at the expense of the pleasure of : others! <snip Tim, correct me if I am wrong….  I is my understanding from reading Tim’s posts, that he does not oppose releasing a fish…  But rather opposes the existence of *pure* C&R fisheries.  Pure C&R fisheries lead to many evils, scarred & damaged fish, unusually crowded and overfished stretches of rivers, and the threat of PETA attacking our sport.   We could change the regulation to a slot limit on most pure C&R fisheries without diminishing the fish significantly and then allow the taking of the older, scarred up fish.  This *for me* would much improve the fishing experience because I personally do not like catching torn up scarred up fish like you find consistently in the locations listed below.

:       There is no quality of experience left in the following pure C&R waters: :       The San Juan below Navajo Dam.  The Frying Pan below Reudi. :       The Green below Flaming Gorge.  The Uncompaghre below Ridgway. :       The South Platte (God rest her soul) below Cheesman canyon. :       If you think that pure C&R has enhanced your experience in these :       places then you will never ever understand the truth.   : So? Why don’t you show the kind of guts we’ve shown in BC and enact : regulations that reduce the level of pressure on those rivers; those rivers :  belong to the residents of those states! Check out the regs for BC rivers :  like the Dean! Non-residents have to pay more; they have to use a guide : they may have to enter a lottery for a right to fish – : and yes I support the use of lottery entrance where the demand for access : exceeds the resources capacity!   We already have a few lottery situations in the regulations of hunting.  I believe this will ultimately become a necessary solution if the popularity of fishing continues to increase at the rate we have seen in the past few years. While I would not like the restriction of access at all, I would enjoy the fishing experience much more assuming the lottery is fairly administered. This however will not happen because the outfitters will demand an unfair share of the access to maintain their businesses.   Ralph, IMHO, lottery and fee based restrictions you advocate run contrary to many of the arguments you made in your post.  These methods will result in only the elite getting access, because the non-elite cannot afford guides and expensive fees for a few hours of fishing.  Also, *I believe* lottery systems will unfairly favor the guides who will find ways to obtain more than their fair share of access permits to further their business. You can argue that a lottery system already exists in this way….  First to a fishing hole gets the spot.  The guides on many rivers in our area arrive very early (or have a paid flunky get there) and stake out the best fishing holes on the river.  They bring their sports (elitists who have the bucks to hire a guide to grab and hold the best water) to these spots and stay there all day.  You will find this happening alot on the Pan and So Platte.  On the floatable rivers, the guides get more than their fair share for float permits, thus again limiting access to the elite. These are complex problems which will get nothing but worse as population increases in our area.  I fish now and enjoy it very much, but I do not expect to fish nearly as much in the future as the quality of the experience continues to diminish with the pressure of multitudes.  One can only hope that Hollywood does not make another movie about flyfishing. — Hewlett Packard, ESL R&D, MS55 Ft. Collins, CO  80525

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tim, you should change your handle to Don Quioxte; you put so much effort into tilting at wind mills! TimW writes:    The neighbor’s collie still craps on the lawn even after Eddie    throws snowballs at it.. [snip] Your dog poop "thing" reminds me of a funny story: A friend went to complain to his neighbour about the neighbours dog crapping on his lawn. As they stood discussing the issue – of course the neighbour contested his dog would never do such a thing – the dog wandered over into my friends yard and dumped in plain sight of both of them. That’s exactly what’s happened here!    You and many pure C&R-ers measure the ethical treatment of animals    only by mortality studies.  You do not consider that a wild animal    in its element *deserves* a certain amount of respect. [snip] By your gut you refer to your stomach no doubt – your great arbitrator of ethical issues. If there is an ethical issue ( and you’ve never even tried to establish why there is one) it is far more complex than you make out – or even have attempted to comprehend; (Oh sorry Tim this may be an insult but then I’m just calling them as I see them – <BEG)    The carnage of pure C&R is swept under the rug every month in    the ff magazines and the entire industry is brainwashed into    thinking that it is somehow OK to hurt a wild animal, just for    fun. Whatever that carnage may be if it exists anywhere but in your imagination remains to be defined and exposed; get off your duff and do it  - maybe I’ll come around to your point of view! [snip]    You insist (greedily) that ‘quality fishing’ implies ONLY number    of and size of fish. This is the part where YOUR dog craps on my lawn in plain sight of everyone who has a look; I made no such insistence; I usually choose less uncrowded waters populated with fewer fish to have some peace- BUT THAT IS MY CHOICE- I’m not out to stuff my choice down anyone’s throat.  The fish I catch are often a pound or less when I could easily go elsewhere to catch pickup loads of fish bigger than you have ever seen. – I WILL NOT ACCEPT BEING LABELLED AS A GREEDY PERSON BY SOMEONE   WHOSE AVOWED INTENTION IS TO ENACT RULES AND REGULATIONS THAT  LIMIT FISHING OPPORTUNITIES TO A FEW SO HIS PLEASURE IS IMPEDED BY    THE MINIMUM NUMBER OF PEOPLE POSSIBLE! You are out to enhance your pleasure at the expense of the pleasure of others! If that isn’t greed what is? Any greed associated with catch and release pales beside that old chum. You know Tim I hoped you could do better than these dreary ad hominium arguments – but perhaps you’ve picked up the habit from some my fellow c&r’ers who couldn’t do better either.    There is no quality of experience left in the following pure C&R waters:    The San Juan below Navajo Dam.  The Frying Pan below Reudi.    The Green below Flaming Gorge.  The Uncompaghre below Ridgway.    The South Platte (God rest her soul) below Cheesman canyon.    If you think that pure C&R has enhanced your experience in these    places then you will never ever understand the truth.   So? Why don’t you show the kind of guts we’ve shown in BC and enact regulations that reduce the level of pressure on those rivers; those rivers belong to the residents of those states! Check out the regs for BC rivers like the Dean! Non-residents have to pay more; they have to use a guide they may have to enter a lottery for a right to fish – and yes I support the use of lottery entrance where the demand for access exceeds the resources capacity!   But I will never support lottery access so some catch and kill elitists can get all the rivers to themselves, so they can kill a few fish but bar those who’d let them go! The very essence of the sport has to be that given a set of regulations the angler gets to choose how he pursues his sport. This was the meaning of Haig Browns "the Law Breaker" if we are forced to kill then we are only instruments of harvest not sports fishers.    Someone actually argued against the position that fisheries    management is about a balance of fish and having as few fishermen    per mile Gee who was that? Ralph H        TimW Without catch and release fishing as we have come to know it will not stand and will pass into the oblivion of archaic practice. There is nothing we do when we lure a fish, hook it, play it, land and then release it that is not done with catch and kill. The experience of the fish is the same up until the point it is released! Then it is given a 90%+ chance of survival! Ninety percent or better that it will spawn and enhance the fish stock. Ninety percent or better that it will do the fishy things that make a fishes life worth while. That make our sport worth while. If we cave in to the hysterical and illogical forces that would restrict the catching and killing of fish to force of law and the chance of lottery we will strip the sport of its essence. We will  be able to fish so seldom that most will hang their rods in shame and pursue other pastimes. For those that do continue to fish the mystery of fishing will be replaced by the certainty of a dead fish or two and a modest meal. Without catch and release fishing as we have come to know it will not stand and will pass into the oblivion of archaic practice. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

                       Harv

Response:

Tim, you should change your handle to Don Quioxte; you put so much effort into tilting at wind mills!  TimW writes:

        The neighbor’s collie still craps on the lawn even after Eddie         throws snowballs at it.. [snip] Your dog poop "thing" reminds me of a funny story: A friend went to complain to his neighbour about the neighbours dog crapping on his lawn. As they stood discussing the issue – of course the neighbour contested his dog would never do such a thing – the dog wandered over into my friends yard and dumped in plain sight of both of them. That’s exactly what’s happened here!         You and many pure C&R-ers measure the ethical treatment of animals         only by mortality studies.  You do not consider that a wild animal         in its element *deserves* a certain amount of respect. [snip] By your gut you refer to your stomach no doubt – your great arbitrator of ethical issues. If there is an ethical issue ( and you’ve never even tried to establish why  there is one) it is far more complex than you make out – or even have attempted to comprehend; (Oh sorry Tim this may be an insult but then I’m just calling them as I see  them – <BEG)         The carnage of pure C&R is swept under the rug every month in         the ff magazines and the entire industry is brainwashed into         thinking that it is somehow OK to hurt a wild animal, just for         fun. Whatever that carnage may be if it exists anywhere but in your imagination remains to be defined and exposed; get off your duff and do it  - maybe I’ll come around to your point of view! [snip]         You insist (greedily) that ‘quality fishing’ implies ONLY number         of and size of fish. This is the part where YOUR dog craps on my lawn in plain sight of everyone who has a look; I made no such insistence; I usually choose less uncrowded waters populated with fewer fish to have some peace- BUT THAT IS MY CHOICE- I’m not out to stuff my choice down anyone’s throat.  The fish I catch are often a pound or less when I could easily go  elsewhere to catch pickup loads of fish bigger than you have ever seen. – I WILL NOT ACCEPT BEING LABELLED AS A GREEDY PERSON BY SOMEONE    WHOSE AVOWED INTENTION IS TO ENACT RULES AND REGULATIONS THAT   LIMIT FISHING OPPORTUNITIES TO A FEW SO HIS PLEASURE IS IMPEDED BY     THE MINIMUM NUMBER OF PEOPLE POSSIBLE! You are out to enhance your pleasure at the expense of the pleasure of others! If that isn’t greed what is? Any greed associated with catch and release  pales beside that old chum. You know Tim I hoped you could do better than these dreary ad hominium arguments – but perhaps you’ve picked up the habit from some my fellow c&r’ers who couldn’t do better either.         There is no quality of experience left in the following pure C&R waters:         The San Juan below Navajo Dam.  The Frying Pan below Reudi.         The Green below Flaming Gorge.  The Uncompaghre below Ridgway.         The South Platte (God rest her soul) below Cheesman canyon.         If you think that pure C&R has enhanced your experience in these         places then you will never ever understand the truth.   So? Why don’t you show the kind of guts we’ve shown in BC and enact regulations that reduce the level of pressure on those rivers; those rivers  belong to the residents of those states! Check out the regs for BC rivers  like the Dean! Non-residents have to pay more; they have to use a guide they may have to enter a lottery for a right to fish – and yes I support the use of lottery entrance where the demand for access exceeds the resources capacity!   But I will never support lottery access so some catch and kill elitists  can get all the rivers to themselves, so they can kill a few fish but bar those who’d let them go! The very essence of the sport has to be that given a set of regulations the angler gets to choose how he pursues his sport. This was the meaning of Haig Browns "the Law Breaker" if we are forced to kill then we are only  instruments of harvest not sports fishers.         Someone actually argued against the position that fisheries         management is about a balance of fish and having as few fishermen         per mile Gee who was that? Ralph H         TimW – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Without catch and release fishing as we have come to know it will not stand and will pass into the oblivion of archaic practice. There is nothing we do when we lure a fish, hook it, play it, land and then release it that is not done with catch and kill. The experience of the fish is the same up until the point it is released! Then it is given a 90%+ chance of survival! Ninety percent or better that it will spawn and enhance the fish stock. Ninety percent or better that it will do the fishy things that make a fishes life worth while. That make our sport worth while. If we cave in to the hysterical and illogical forces that would restrict the catching and killing of fish to force of law and the chance of lottery we will strip the sport of its essence. We will  be able to fish so seldom that most will hang their rods in shame and pursue other pastimes. For those that do continue to fish the mystery of fishing will be replaced by the certainty of a dead fish or two and a modest meal. Without catch and release fishing as we have come to know it will not stand and will pass into the oblivion of archaic practice.

– TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Without catch and release fishing as we have come to know it will not stand and will pass into the oblivion of archaic practice. There is nothing we do when we lure a fish, hook it, play it, land and then release it that is not done with catch and kill. The experience of the fish is the same up until the point it is released! Then it is given a 90%+ chance of survival! Ninety percent or better that it will spawn and enhance the fish stock. Ninety percent or better that it will do the fishy things that make a fishes life worth while. That make our sport worth while. If we cave in to the hysterical and illogical forces that would restrict the catching and killing of fish to force of law and the chance of lottery we will strip the sport of its essence. We will  be able to fish so seldom that most will hang their rods in shame and pursue other pastimes. For those that do continue to fish the mystery of fishing will be replaced by the certainty of a dead fish or two and a modest meal. Without catch and release fishing as we have come to know it will not stand and will pass into the oblivion of archaic practice.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Without catch and release fishing as we have come to know it will not stand and will pass into the oblivion of archaic practice. There is nothing we do when we lure a fish, hook it, play it, land and then release it that is not done with catch and kill. The experience of the fish is the same up until the point it is released! Then it is given a 90%+ chance of survival! Ninety percent or better that it will spawn and enhance the fish stock. Ninety percent or better that it will do the fishy things that make a fishes life worth while. That make our sport worth while. If we cave in to the hysterical and illogical forces that would restrict the catching and killing of fish to force of law and the chance of lottery we will strip the sport of its essence. We will  be able to fish so seldom that most will hang their rods in shame and pursue other pastimes. For those that do continue to fish the mystery of fishing will be replaced by the certainty of a dead fish or two and a modest meal. Without catch and release fishing as we have come to know it will not stand and will pass into the oblivion of archaic practice.

Well spoken, Ralph! Here in the northern Sweden I’m not obliged to release the browns, graylings or char I catch. I’ll do it anyway, out of respect of nature and its limited resources. If I had to kill all the watery friends I manage to outwit, by imitating what they eat, by making a great cast, by reading the water or simply by persistance, then I would feel sick. It would be like having to kill the dog after walking it. Roughly… /Hans Edman, Umea, Sweden

Response:

Yeah yeah yeah… The neighbor’s collie still craps on the lawn even after Eddie throws snowballs at it…you can leave the bitch out on a 20 below zero night and she still wags her tail at you in the morning.  Same thing if you stake her out in the hot August sun in Rifle.  You can be cruel as hell to a dog, they’ll still be around to crap on the lawn, man. But you know Ralph…I feel better that I do not kick her or tie her up in the sun and I feel better when she has water and food. You and many pure C&R-ers measure the ethical treatment of animals only by mortality studies.  You do not consider that a wild animal in its element *deserves* a certain amount of respect. They do not exist purely for our pleasure, of that I am certain.  This is what MY gut tells me.   The carnage of pure C&R is swept under the rug every month in the ff magazines and the entire industry is brainwashed into thinking that it is somehow OK to hurt a wild animal, just for fun. Why do you continue to ignore the efficacy of selective harvest as a workable concept in all fisheriy situations ? You insist (greedily) that ‘quality fishing’ implies ONLY number of and size of fish.  This ONLY guarantees crowded conditions which nails the coffin of quality shut… There is no quality of experience left in the following pure C&R waters: The San Juan below Navajo Dam.  The Frying Pan below Reudi. The Green below Flaming Gorge.  The Uncompaghre below Ridgway. The South Platte (God rest her soul) below Cheesman canyon. If you think that pure C&R has enhanced your experience in these places then you will never ever understand the truth.   Someone actually argued against the position that fisheries management is about a balance of fish and having as few fishermen per mile as possible.  Amazing.  Absolutely amazing.   TimW – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Without catch and release fishing as we have come to know it will not stand and will pass into the oblivion of archaic practice. There is nothing we do when we lure a fish, hook it, play it, land and then release it that is not done with catch and kill. The experience of the fish is the same up until the point it is released! Then it is given a 90%+ chance of survival! Ninety percent or better that it will spawn and enhance the fish stock. Ninety percent or better that it will do the fishy things that make a fishes life worth while. That make our sport worth while. If we cave in to the hysterical and illogical forces that would restrict the catching and killing of fish to force of law and the chance of lottery we will strip the sport of its essence. We will  be able to fish so seldom that most will hang their rods in shame and pursue other pastimes. For those that do continue to fish the mystery of fishing will be replaced by the certainty of a dead fish or two and a modest meal. Without catch and release fishing as we have come to know it will not stand and will pass into the oblivion of archaic practice.

– TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Question:

The URL you seek is: http://www.seakayaker.com/gaddis/gadabout.htm

Response:

The URL you seek is: http://www.seakayaker.com/gaddis/gadabout.htm

Hi Dave I bookmarked the site. Thanks for taking the time to post the information. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Response:

I’ve been away a week fishing the banks of Argentina for trout. What a blast. My friend told me someone posted info about a Gadabout Gaddis homepage, a hero to me in my childhood. Can anyone post the url here! Much Appreciated Vince

Response:

My friend told me someone posted info about a Gadabout Gaddis homepage, a hero to me in my childhood.

 Truly fun to watch, but you know…we never really got a look at the fly!….any guesses as to what he had on..?…worms…nightcrawlers.., cheese!….;-) Steve D.

Response:

Question:

I’M NOT SURE MY LAST MESSAGE WAS SENT PROPERLY.  I’M NEW TO THIS INFERNAL CONTRAPTION THEY CALL A COMPUTER!   I AM GOING TO PANAMA FOR A FEW MONTHS AND NEED ADVICE ON TACKLE AND LOCATIONS FOR SALT WATER FLY FISHING.  I KNOW THAT THE MOUTHS OF THE RIVERS HAVE TARPON AND GATUN LAKE HAS PEACOCK BASS.  ANY ADVICE WOULD BE WELCOME.

Response:

: I’M NOT SURE MY LAST MESSAGE WAS SENT PROPERLY.  I’M NEW TO THIS INFERNAL : CONTRAPTION THEY CALL A COMPUTER!   : I AM GOING TO PANAMA FOR A FEW MONTHS AND NEED ADVICE ON TACKLE AND : LOCATIONS FOR SALT WATER FLY FISHING.  I KNOW THAT THE MOUTHS OF THE : RIVERS HAVE TARPON AND GATUN LAKE HAS PEACOCK BASS.  ANY ADVICE WOULD BE : WELCOME. I was born there, but I don’t remember much since I moved away when I was young. I would be interested to here how you did when you get back. Someday I hope to return. BTW, typing in all caps is hard on the eyes and difficult to read. It is also considered shouting in the computer world. I just wanted to let you know before somebody gets on your case.  ;-) Good Luck! Jon Porter

Response:

Question:

Boca Paila and Casa Blanca have great permit, some Tarpon and  lotsa bones.  The bones are on the smallish side but you should get more chances a permit than in the Bahamas or Florida.  I’ve fished Boca Paila twice. Good folks.  Casa Blanca is just to the South of Boca Paila. Best day — 13 bones before lunch.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone tell me where is the best lodge to goto for BIG Permit & Bonefish? Robert Wong                        1993 Honda Civic Si Hatchback                                          Advanced Timing Visit My New & Improved Homepage  http://www.gate.net/~foxer           Atkid – 48 days – down 20

Response:

A great, and less expensive alternative to fishing at Asencion Bay is the CUZAN GUEST HOUSE at $1450 per week, double occupancy. Contact me for more info.    Gene Kelly

Response:

writes: Can anyone tell me where is the best lodge to goto for BIG Permit &

Bonefish? If you want really big permit, the biggest are found in Ascension Bay on the Yucatan Penninsula of Mexico (Carribean side).  There is currently a world record pending from the area.   I fished there in June and stayed at the Ascension Bay Bonefish Club (great place for small parties – no more than a max of 6).  Joe Sugura is an excellent host.  Did a lot of looking and almost no casting to permit (one cast 5 feet behind a permit as he left the area).  One of the guys that week took 5 permit the biggest being around 26 lbs.  On the last day my fishing partner got off about a dozen casts to two permit that were over 30 lbs ( if only I’d been on the other side of the boat!). Kaufmann’s book is way off in its description of permit fishing in the area.  They have a great picture in the lodge of a triple on Permit (this is real unusual). Bonefish are plentiful there, but not nearly so big as the singles and doubles you’ll find in florida.   They make up for it by traveling in schools.  Some beautiful flats fishing. Food was great by the way. You can contact them through Fishing International (1-800-950-4242).                                        Good Fishing,                                               Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

Response:

Can anyone tell me where is the best lodge to goto for BIG Permit & Bonefish? Robert Wong                        1993 Honda Civic Si Hatchback                                          Advanced Timing Visit My New & Improved Homepage  http://www.gate.net/~foxer           Atkid – 48 days – down 20

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Can anyone tell me where is the best lodge to goto for BIG Permit & Bonefish? Robert Wong                        1993 Honda Civic Si Hatchback                                         Advanced Timing Visit My New & Improved Homepage http://www.gate.net/~foxer           Atkid – 48 days – down 20

I think the biggest permit are caught in southern Florida. They catch pretty nice ones in Ascension Bay, Yucatan, Mexico. I think the biggest average size for bones is in southern Florida and the Bahamas. They are both very difficult on a fly and I would recommend working your way up the ladder by fishing for more plentiful, smaller fish that are much easier to catch. Personally, that is what I have been doing for the past fifteen years. Call us and we can tell you about many flats destinations. 800/4000FLY William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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I will be on vacation in a few weeks near Branson.   would appreciate information of good fishing streams in area.  I know about Roaring River, but not others. Don Whipple

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I will be on vacation in a few weeks near Branson.   would appreciate information of good fishing streams in area.  I know about Roaring River, but not others. Don Whipple

Don, You should check out the White River in Arkansas.  It offers a lot more variety than Roaring River.   The White is located near the Mountain Home area,  about two and a half hours from Branson.  There are plenty of big browns,  rainbows,   cutthroats,  and brookies to keep you busy for a day. As of lately there has been plenty of low water for wade-fishing. If you want to stay closer to Branson,  try Lake Taneycomo.   I have heard a lot of good things about the fishing there. Have fun on your vacation. Bryan B. P.S.  I am a guide on the White River,  if you decide to come to Arkansas,  drop me a line via e-mail.

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