Question:

Wow, I just had a great time fishing in front of the school on the Lielupe River! Thanks to you guys here on ROFF (whatever that is..). I was headed home after work, glanced over at the usually rather full fishing spot, and not one local was there, probably because of the overcast skies and promise of rain. The space with the clear zone for a backcast was wide open, and as I stood there thinking about it, 2 big old rises appeared <right there.  Easy decision: tossed the briefcase in the car, peeled off the shoes and socks, stepped into my mudboots, and assembled the 4-weight. Strolled over to the bank and watched for a minute. The skeeters were there, but so were these tiny little black flying things and the perch were rising for them all over. Not the big thrashing rises from the other day, but some respectable rises nontheless. And lots of them. I tied on a 6x tippet, gave myself about 1 meter of lead, and looked at my flycase. I recently bought a nice old Soviet cigarette case at a junk shop and lined it with foam as a nymph case for my 4-wt, and saw a fly that looked interesting. Its a type of caterpillar, I think, with a palmered hackle around a yellow-orange body on a #12(?) hook. Looks like a wolly bugger without a tail. I was thinking about what Mike said about colors, and how Perch nip at the tails and to use a wolly with a short tail, so I tied this on. Also, the water is getting shallow, and this fly can float if you lay it out gently, so I figured it would work for presentation practice, too. First cast was short and easy, as someone suggested here. Then I gradually stretched out my false casts farther and farther, thinking ‘back and UP’, and as someone else suggested, watching over my shoulder for the line to straighten. It was a LONG wait…the line would do a sort of ‘double tug’ at the end of my backcast: once when the tailing loop of the backcast would hit the far end, then again when the entire line was laid out up there. Dunno how the line can defy gravity for so long waiting to stretch out taut, but it does. Then, I swept it forward firmly and sharply, pointing it like a sword (as someone else suggested), and was amazed at how my casts were straight, long, and perfectly presented. First cast, fish on! Of course, it was some little 6-inch thing, but hey!, it was just what I wanted. I brought it in with the line, not bothering to spool up the reel, and let it go with my heartfelt thanks. Then I cast out again, watching the line behind me and waiting forever for the backcast to load up. The forward cast and watching the fly stay ‘above the line’ as Jarmo suggested made total sense, and it felt just right. Second cast, fish on! Too cool! This guy was a bit bigger (6.1 inches, probably), but I got that feeling that it was working just like it was supposed to! All those tiny details were making sense, and it was great. Then the skies opened up and it started to rain. I remembered the thread about how fish seem to bite better at one time or another, and figured the Perch seemed to like to hit just before the skies open up. A few minutes later, when the rain stopped and the sun broke through, there were no rises. As the clouds covered up again, the rises came more and more regularly until just before it rained again. At some point, I decided to experiment with flies as the caterpillar was getting soaked and starting to snag on the muck at the bottom. I took it off and tied on a very tiny yellow thing I have; I think its a #18 yellow Comparadun. Anyway, I was laying it out there exactly where the big rises were and letting it lie there, but no takes. Finally, I decided to head home and started retrieving it slowly. Wham! it got hit and spit out. Wham! it got hit again. Ahhh, so THATS the secret! So I spent the next half hour casting and gently retrieving it, hauling in fish with almost every cast. Great. Of course, these were no great monsters, and I realize that perch are pathetically easy to catch, but at least now I have a baseline to experiment with, and grow from. I know there are some BIG perch in this stretch of water, so I’m ready to start learning how to aim for them. All in all, it was a great way to spend an hour after work, and I was thinking of all the tidbits of advice from folks here about everything, from how to cast, to the effect of cloud cover, to what color and type of fly to use, to knots, to everything. Thanks, guys!! riverman (happy boy)

Response:

Wow, I just had a great time fishing in front of the school on the Lielupe River! Thanks to you guys here on ROFF (whatever that is..).

Congratulations!    Just one point though, catching small perch may seem "pathetically easy" sometimes. The larger ones can be quite a challenge. Even a medium sized perch will give you a good run for your money on a #4 wt. If you only seem to be catching small ones, try fishing a streamer anyway, occasionally, a large perch will be hanging around waiting for one of his smaller brethren to make a mistake. TL MC

Response:

Question:

Paul, I would check out the site run by a decent guy named Matt. He lives not too far away in Rome I believe. He is familiar with the Utica/Rome areas (about an hour away) and he can turn you on to some other spots in your area. If you head up 87, you will find all sorts of small creeks and streams. They used to be awesome for brookies, but I haven’t fished there in years. His site is: http://www.centralnewyorker.com/CNYflyfisherman.htm Give him a try. Gordon Burr The worst day on the water beats the best day in the office. Gordo

Response:

Hi,  I have been an avid fisher person for many years. Have recently taken up fly fishing – after moving to the Albany New York area.  Any tips for the area, fishing spots (fly fishing or otherwise) fishing partners (I’ll buy the beer or lunch) haven’t made any new friends here yet.  would be greatly appreciated Thanks in advance   Paul P

Response:

Hi,  I have been an avid fisher person for many years. Have recently taken up fly fishing – after moving to the Albany New York area.  Any tips for the area, fishing spots (fly fishing or otherwise) fishing partners (I’ll buy the beer or lunch) haven’t made any new friends here yet.  would be greatly appreciated

Do make the trip up to the Adirondacks – Saranac, Ausable area – if you get the chance.  I’d love to head up there with ya, but it’s not in the cards this year

Response:

Hi,  I have been an avid fisher person for many years. Have recently taken up fly fishing – after moving to the Albany New York area.  Any tips for the area, fishing spots (fly fishing or otherwise) fishing partners (I’ll buy the beer or lunch) haven’t made any new friends here yet.  would be greatly appreciated Thanks in advance   Paul P

Funny, I just left after 10 years. Depending where you live, there are a host of nearby opportunities. My personal favorite was either the Mohawk or the Junction of the Hudson and Hoosac for smallies on the fly. The Mohawk has lots of areas to fish- easily accessible are all the locks (that goes for the Hudson, too). From shore good areas are either end of the Crescent Bridge, the flight locks, Lock 7 in Niskayuna and the other side of Lock 7 accessible from Ferry Rd nature path in Clifton Park, just west of Vischer’s Ferry Road. For the jct of the Hoosac and Hudson get to Stillwater and go across the bridge over the Hudson, turn right into the road for the Lock Park. Park in the lot and take the footpath south from the parking area to the Hoosac. I mostly used white grub bodies and spinners on the Hoosac. It’s very interesting place with a lot of fish but water levels change, sometimes dramatically, dependent  upon releases through the dam at Schagticoke, upriver. It is wild in Summer when water levels are down and fish congregate in the narrow rushing channels cut through the rock. Believe me the Albany are is fantastic for water to fish. Start asking around here or local tackle shops. Add the Adirondacks and Vermont to all the water in the Albany area and you are in paradise. I loved it so much I bought the lifetime license from NY state which is good even if you are no longer a NY resident. Tight lines and watch your footing! Cow

Response:

I was out on the river last night, up at the dam. nothing there yet, give it a week and maybe!! Vern

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m sure that you’re aware that there is a heck of a lot of stream fishing in the area.  But sometime between now and mid-May or so is supposed to be a good time to fish for shad and striped bass.  You may want to look into shore access at Green Island, below the dam at Troy.  I can’t give you any first-hand information: I was in the area last year and researched it a bit, but then wasn’t able to get to it.

Response:

Question:

says… I recommend Oak Creek, Michael, or the Verde River near Dead Horse Ranch. Here’s a couple of links you might find handy: http://www.gorp.com/gorp/publishers/countryman/fis_oc.htm http://www.gorp.com/gorp/publishers/countryman/m_ocs.htm Enjoy your visit! Sandy — "…the sport and game of angling is the true means and cause that brings a man into a merry spirit, which…makes a flowering age and a long one." ~~ Dame Juliana Berners 1496

I’ve been out in Flagstaff twice…both before I started flyfishing!  I may be out there in mid-May and have a day or 2 free.  Thanks for the pointers. Rob

Response:

Michael, Check out www.smallstreams.com It’s mostly about Arizona streams. Thanks, Russ in Tucson

Response:

I recommend Oak Creek, Michael, or the Verde River near Dead Horse Ranch. Here’s a couple of links you might find handy: http://www.gorp.com/gorp/publishers/countryman/fis_oc.htm http://www.gorp.com/gorp/publishers/countryman/m_ocs.htm Enjoy your visit!

Oh man, the agony of it all!!! I own a house in Flagstaff, and lived there for 12 years, but only took up flyfishing after I left. I never knew there were trout in Oak Creek or the Verde, despite having paddled both rivers (esp the remote stretches of the Verde) dozens of times!!  When I think of all the trips I took, and all those ‘never fished’ stretches I must have passed over because I wasn’t a flyfisher……the thought of the missed opportunities tears me up!!!! riverman

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recommend Oak Creek, Michael, or the Verde River near Dead Horse Ranch. Here’s a couple of links you might find handy: http://www.gorp.com/gorp/publishers/countryman/fis_oc.htm http://www.gorp.com/gorp/publishers/countryman/m_ocs.htm Enjoy your visit! Oh man, the agony of it all!!! I own a house in Flagstaff, and lived there for 12 years, but only took up flyfishing after I left. I never knew there were trout in Oak Creek or the Verde, despite having paddled both rivers (esp the remote stretches of the Verde) dozens of times!!  When I think of all the trips I took, and all those ‘never fished’ stretches I must have passed over because I wasn’t a flyfisher……the thought of the missed opportunities tears me up!!!! riverman

It’s still here, sweetie.  You can always come back and have another look. :^) Sandy — "…the sport and game of angling is the true means and cause that brings a man into a merry spirit, which…makes a flowering age and a long one." ~~ Dame Juliana Berners 1496

Response:

All, I’ve got to take a business trip in late March to Phoenix, but then will have 3 days to myself.  Are there fly-fishing opportunities there abouts someone might want to recommend? Cheers, Michael

I recommend Oak Creek, Michael, or the Verde River near Dead Horse Ranch. Here’s a couple of links you might find handy: http://www.gorp.com/gorp/publishers/countryman/fis_oc.htm http://www.gorp.com/gorp/publishers/countryman/m_ocs.htm Enjoy your visit! Sandy — "…the sport and game of angling is the true means and cause that brings a man into a merry spirit, which…makes a flowering age and a long one." ~~ Dame Juliana Berners 1496

Response:

All, I’ve got to take a business trip in late March to Phoenix, then will have 3 days to myself. Are there fly-fishing opportunities there abouts someone might want to recommend? Cheers, Michael

You might try searching this newsgroup for past entries and responses.  There should be quite a few suggestions.  You should contact the AZ Fish and Game at: http://www.gf.state.az.us/frames/index.html My personal favorite fishing was the upper Salt River, about Roosevelt Reservoir.  It’s a longer drive (east to Globe, then either north to the lower river or to Show Low to the upper river) and part of the river (above Chrysotile) is on the Apache Indian Reservation (stop at White River for a license).  The extreme upper Black River is on USFS lands and has good fishing for small mouth bass. Good luck. –Scott–

Response:

I’ll go 3.5 hours north to Lee’s Ferry. John

Agreed — that’s The Place to flyfish in AZ, but it’s a bit much for a day trip from Phoenix. If you have absolutely nothing to do for 3 solid days, it would be a worthwhile venture. Sandy — "…the sport and game of angling is the true means and cause that brings a man into a merry spirit, which…makes a flowering age and a long one." ~~ Dame Juliana Berners 1496

Response:

I’ll go 3.5 hours north to Lee’s Ferry. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All, I’ve got to take a business trip in late March to Phoenix, but then will have 3 days to myself.  Are there fly-fishing opportunities there abouts someone might want to recommend? Cheers, Michael

Response:

good god!  at last, the final piece of the roffian puzzle: the scent of a woman! smilies from tucson to tucumcari. your friend in the old north state wayno

Hiya handsome! I missed you too!  Told you fellers I’d be back. Looks like y’all have been having fun while I was gone. Enjoying myself thoroughly catching up. Anyone here ever see the Trinity movies (My Name Is Trinity; Trinity Is Still My Name; and My Name Is Nobody)?  Really cheesy Italian westerns with the best slap-fighting ever recorded on celluloid.  That’s what ROFF reminds me of — I LOVE this place!  Glad to be home.  :^)  Hugs all around. Sandy — "…the sport and game of angling is the true means and cause that brings a man into a merry spirit, which…makes a flowering age and a long one." ~~ Dame Juliana Berners 1496

Response:

!  When I think of all the trips I took, and all those ‘never fished’ stretches I must have passed over because I wasn’t a flyfisher……the thought of the missed opportunities tears me up!!!! riverman It’s still here, sweetie.  You can always come back and have another look. :^) Sandy

        good god!  at last, the final piece of the roffian puzzle: the scent of a woman!         smilies from tucson to tucumcari. your friend in the old north state wayno

Response:

All, I’ve got to take a business trip in late March to Phoenix, but then will have 3 days to myself.  Are there fly-fishing opportunities there abouts someone might want to recommend? Cheers, Michael

Response:

Question:

The drift IS the presentation.

You took the words right out of my mouth.  Maybe he means the cast?? FiddleAway

Response:

The drift IS the presentation. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

yup, you guys are too sharp. <g and…. dang, them oregon rogues (dead guy ale) last night surely worked their magic on this poboy. –ww

Response:

Substitute "fly selection" for "presentation" and I still say Waldo’s dead on right. At least on the wild streams of NC anyway. –Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The drift IS the presentation. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

Response:

…. dang, them oregon rogues (dead guy ale) last night surely worked their magic on this poboy.

I like the 22 ouncers.  You can hang the empties on your belt for ballast.  Makes falling into bed (or somewhere near it anyway) a lot easier. Wolfgang and they glow in the dark!!

Response:

some may argue, pointless and without scope i may respectively add, that the drift is secondary to the presentation. i present, wickedly, that the drift is omnipotent. in scope….. jo jo left his home… (sorry, beatles cd in player) argue.. bitch.. cuss if you feel it necessary…. the drift is the cause, the glory, the prescience. doubt? surely you have observed the subtle twitch, the soft turn, the, the… the take…. on the proper drift. been there…. enuff to be comfortable with this knowledge…. –wataugan walt

Response:

TROLL! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – some may argue, pointless and without scope i may respectively add, that the drift is secondary to the presentation. i present, wickedly, that the drift is omnipotent. in scope….. jo jo left his home… (sorry, beatles cd in player) argue.. bitch.. cuss if you feel it necessary…. the drift is the cause, the glory, the prescience. doubt? surely you have observed the subtle twitch, the soft turn, the, the… the take…. on the proper drift. been there…. enuff to be comfortable with this knowledge…. –wataugan walt

Response:

You are right.  The Drift/Mend are one and the same, or put another way, "The Mend" is part of the cast.  I always mend on every cast even if I’m fishing straight down stream. Trust me.  You don’t want to go there.  For example, when one is fly fishing downstream and they lift their fly rod to drag their fly back upstream, that is the cast and then when they pull the fly a little right or left to align the fly along a current seam and then they lower the rod to start the fly drifting down again, that is the mend. Walter, you have it down cold as I know you are a very savvy fly fisherman All’s Fair With Fur or Feather gg

Response:

some may argue, pointless and without scope i may respectively add, that the drift is secondary to the presentation. i present, wickedly, that the drift is omnipotent.

<SNIP Hopefully somebody got your drift. TL MC

Response:

some may argue, pointless and without scope i may respectively add, that the drift is secondary to the presentation. i present, wickedly, that the drift is omnipotent. <SNIP Hopefully somebody got your drift.

The drift…er, well, he sounds like he in his cups, or at least, under the boardwalk, lusting after a rose in Spanish Harlem….well, as long as he doesn’t go up on the roof…. TC, R …down by the sea….

Response:

The drift IS the presentation. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

Response:

some may argue, pointless and without scope i may respectively add, that the drift is secondary to the presentation. i present, wickedly, that the drift is omnipotent.

<SNIP Wailing, weeping, moaning, the sounds of weary lamentation, drifting down the stream, result of  fairly wicked presentation, argument and cursing, floating eerily, with but little hope, t

Question:

wu-name?

Your name, if you were a member of the Wu-Tang Clan, which presumably you’re not. Put down the chainsaw and listen to me. It’s time for us to join in the fight.

Response:

The following are anagrams of the names of eight of the folks who post on ROFF, picked off the top of my head. Can you name these eight people? 1. Nary saw heroin 2. Wet, raw lint 3. Me Sperm Zenith Man! 4. Use a ‘Clave rod. 5. Try’n’ reefer… Bonk! 6. So data-native 7. Never, bastard!! 8. Did verse, naked.

That is, without a doubt, one of the very, very best posts ever on ROFF. IMVHO. Thank you. — Halfordian Golfer

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1. Nary saw heroin 2. Wet, raw lint 3…7 [snipped] 8. Did verse, naked. That is, without a doubt, one of the very, very best posts ever on ROFF. IMVHO. Thank you. Thanks, I think… Although something tells me I missed a smiley or two somewhere in there. –Steve

ZBone!!! –waldo <g ps, i don’t recall ever seeing timbo use smileys….

Response:

A couple of hours is no exception for me.. but then again, juggling the letters ‘rec outdoors fishing fly’ can obviously take some time. Here are the results: Rearranging the letters of ‘rec outdoors fishing fly’ gives: Oh God! frictionless fury.

what we all wish, in tender moments of passion, to hear screamed <g waldo

Response:

1. Nary saw heroin 2. Wet, raw lint 3…7 [snipped] 8. Did verse, naked. That is, without a doubt, one of the very, very best posts ever on ROFF. IMVHO. Thank you.

Thanks, I think… Although something tells me I missed a smiley or two somewhere in there. –Steve

Response:

The following are anagrams of the names of eight of the folks who post on ROFF, picked off the top of my head. Can you name these eight people? 1. Nary saw heroin 2. Wet, raw lint 3. Me Sperm Zenith Man! 4. Use a ‘Clave rod. 5. Try’n’ reefer… Bonk! 6. So data-native 7. Never, bastard!! 8. Did verse, naked. –Steve

Response:

[solution snipped]

I can’t decide what’s more geeky. The fact that I spent an hour doing those dorky (that’s for you, Mike!) anagrams or the fact that you guys (Paul and Joe) solved them in half that time. –Steve (feeling progressively worse about that Amish joke)

Response:

The following are anagrams of the names of eight of the folks who post on ROFF, picked off the top of my head. Can you name these eight people? 1. Nary saw heroin 2. Wet, raw lint 3. Me Sperm Zenith Man! 4. Use a ‘Clave rod. 5. Try’n’ reefer… Bonk! 6. So data-native       7. Never, bastard!! 8. Did verse, naked.

3 (you)       6 (me) /daytripper (who the heck is 5?)

Response:

The following are anagrams of the names of eight of the folks who post on ROFF, picked off the top of my head. Can you name these eight people? 1. Nary saw heroin 2. Wet, raw lint 3. Me Sperm Zenith Man! 4. Use a ‘Clave rod. 5. Try’n’ reefer… Bonk! 6. So data-native       7. Never, bastard!! 8. Did verse, naked.

1 (wayno) 3 (you)       4 (louie) 6 (me) /daytripper (who *is* number 5?)

Response:

The following are anagrams of the names of eight of the folks who post on ROFF, picked off the top of my head. Can you name these eight people? 1. Nary saw heroin 2. Wet, raw lint 3. Me Sperm Zenith Man! 4. Use a ‘Clave rod. 5. Try’n’ reefer… Bonk!   6. So data-native       7. Never, baard!! 8. Did verse, naked.

1 (wayno) 3 (you)       4 (louie) 6 (me) 7 (rw) 8 (snedeker) /daytripper (MS Anti-Anagram 2K beta tester)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The following are anagrams of the names of eight of the folks who post on ROFF, picked off the top of my head. Can you name these eight people? 1. Nary saw heroin 2. Wet, raw lint 3. Me Sperm Zenith Man! 4. Use a ‘Clave rod. 5. Try’n’ reefer… Bonk! 6. So data-native 7. Never, bastard!! 8. Did verse, naked. Cool. | 1. Wayne Harrison 2. Walt Winter 3. Steve Zimmerman 4. Dave LaCourse 5. Ken Fortenberry 6. Dave Tatosian 7. Steve Barnard 8. David Snedeker

Oh, a couple of sharpies, eh? /daytripper (I’d just gotten Forty, too! 8-P)

Response:

I don’t know which generator Zimbo tried.  Go to http://www.mbhs.edu/~bconnell/anagrams.html and try your name.  The "Z" will mess you up.  Try your full middle name to get more to choose from.  Vangelic Surgeon is pretty cool. JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t see me in there. Should I be offended. (Where is this anagram generator, and what does it get from Mike S. Medintz? I know my wu-name is Vangelic Surgeon…)

Response:

The following are anagrams of the names of eight of the folks who post on ROFF, picked off the top of my head. Can you name these eight people? 1. Nary saw heroin 2. Wet, raw lint 3. Me Sperm Zenith Man! 4. Use a ‘Clave rod. 5. Try’n’ reefer… Bonk! 6. So data-native 7. Never, bastard!! 8. Did verse, naked.

Cool. | | | | | | | | | | | | 1. Wayne Harrison 2. Walt Winter 3. Steve Zimmerman 4. Dave LaCourse 5. Ken Fortenberry 6. Dave Tatosian 7. Steve Barnard 8. David Snedeker

Response:

1 Wayne Harrison 2 Walt winter 3 Stephen Zimmerman 4 Dave Lacourse 5 Ken Fortenberry 6 dave tatosian 7 Steve Banard 8 dave snedeker

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The following are anagrams of the names of eight of the folks who post on ROFF, picked off the top of my head. Can you name these eight people? 1. Nary saw heroin 2. Wet, raw lint 3. Me Sperm Zenith Man! 4. Use a ‘Clave rod. 5. Try’n’ reefer… Bonk! 6. So data-native 7. Never, bastard!! 8. Did verse, naked. –Steve

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The following are anagrams of the names of eight of the folks who post on ROFF, picked off the top of my head. Can you name these eight people? 1. Nary saw heroin 2. Wet, raw lint 3. Me Sperm Zenith Man! Steve Zimmerman 4. Use a ‘Clave rod. 5. Try’n’ reefer… Bonk! 6. So data-native 7. Never, bastard!! 8. Did verse, naked. –Steve

Response:

Zimbo writes: 4. Use a ‘Clave rod.

Shouldn’t that read:  Use a ‘clave, Rod. And it was the easiest one. Dave L.

Response:

That was the first one I got. I saw reefer and your name didn’t fit… Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The following are anagrams of the names of eight of the folks who post on ROFF, picked off the top of my head. Can you name these eight people? 1. Nary saw heroin 2. Wet, raw lint 3. Me Sperm Zenith Man! 4. Use a ‘Clave rod. 5. Try’n’ reefer… Bonk! 6. So data-native 7. Never, bastard!! 8. Did verse, naked. 3 (you) 6 (me) /daytripper (who the heck is 5?)

Response:

I can’t decide what’s more geeky. The fact that I spent an hour doing those dorky (that’s for you, Mike!) anagrams or the fact that you guys (Paul and Joe) solved them in half that time.

It was just timing.   I uncharacteristically found myself sitting with my laptop in front of the TV where SWMBO was watching "Judging Amy".   It was either work anagrams or have my brains sucked out of my head. Joe F.

Response:

The following are anagrams of the names of eight of the folks who post on ROFF, picked off the top of my head. Can you name these eight people? 1. Nary saw heroin

Wayno. 2. Wet, raw lint 3. Me Sperm Zenith Man!

Steve Zimmerman I don’t see me in there. Should I be offended. (Where is this anagram generator, and what does it get from Mike S. Medintz? I know my wu-name is Vangelic Surgeon…) Put down the chainsaw and listen to me. It’s time for us to join in the fight.

Response:

I took the names in Zimbo’s challenge and plugged them into the anagram generator. It came up with Wayne Harrison as an anagram for the first one. However, it didn’t find Walt Winter or even Winter out of the second one. My spell checker wants to replace Zimbo with Zombie or Zima Paul (If Zimbo drinks Zima he’ll be a Zombe)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know which generator Zimbo tried.  Go to http://www.mbhs.edu/~bconnell/anagrams.html and try your name.  The "Z" will mess you up.  Try your full middle name to get more to choose from.  Vangelic Surgeon is pretty cool. JR I don’t see me in there. Should I be offended. (Where is this anagram generator, and what does it get from Mike S. Medintz? I know my wu-name is Vangelic Surgeon…)

Response:

I don’t see me in there. Should I be offended. (Where is this anagram generator, and what does it get from Mike S. Medintz? I know my wu-name is Vangelic Surgeon…)

There’s a site, www.anagramgenius.com, that will take your text and e-mail you the anagrams.   It’s a one-at-a-time thing (they’re really just trying to sell you the software), but it’s a freebie.   Depending on the backlog, the response time can vary, but ten minutes is the longest I’ve waited. wu-name? Joe F.

Response:

I took the names in Zimbo’s challenge and plugged them into the anagram generator. However, it didn’t find Walt Winter or even Winter out of the second one.

no big surprise…. some would argue i’ve been lost for years <g waldo

Response:

A couple of hours is no exception for me.. but then again, juggling the letters ‘rec outdoors fishing fly’ can obviously take some time. Here are the results: Rearranging the letters of ‘rec outdoors fishing fly’ gives: Y-fronts if slouchier dog.              Y-fronts if slouchier god. Shod frostily configure.                Offishly scourged in rot. Rot or offishly seducing.               Scruffy, loonier dog shit. Roguishly sod off cretin.               Configure or filthy sods. Filthy scourger if on sod.              Y-fronts dig slouchier of. Turnoffs choose rigidly.                Officers don’t roguishly. His good if cruel Y-fronts.             Offishly courting doers. Odoriferous lynch gifts.                Sod! filthy of in scourger. Horrify seduction flogs.                Horridly scoffing to use. Unity girlhood scoffers.                Scoff ugly dishonorer it. Scourged or offishly tin.               It nor offishly scourged. Good! frostily fine crush.              If huge Y-fronts discolor. Scoff guilty dishonorer.                Offishly erotic grounds. Offishly groins to crude.               Roguishly tired on scoff. Heroic of dungs frostily.               Is godly, heroic turnoffs. I scourged offishly torn.               Offishly seducing rotor. Roguishly scoffed in rot.               Roguishly not dire scoff. Ghouls dirty on officers.               Offishly or erotic dungs. Floor touchy frigidness.                Ugh! frostily consider of. Gosh! frostily if on crude.             Frostily hogs if on crude. Gosh! dicier Y-fronts foul.             Fifty grouchiness drool. Oh God! is cruel if Y-fronts.           Forged foolish scrutiny. Rude or offishly costing.               Is rude scoffing or hotly. Cushy, ironfisted or flog.              Curses! off tiny girlhood. Ugly, horrific, often sods.             Historic guy of fondlers. Confused so filthy rigor.               Offishly or corniest dug. Offishly. Scourger in dot.              Offishly counted rigors. Goof if shirty scoundrel.               Of or shy cunts glorified. Frostily hogs in crude of.              Heroics dung frostily. Of. Grouchier of sits fondly.               Fondly if sorriest cough. Y-fronts foul dicier hogs.              Y-fronts if his good ulcer. Lousy, hot, direr scoffing.             Scoff sure tiny girlhood. Soften ugly, horrific sod.              Orgy of if this scoundrel. Scourged of or filthy sin.              Ignored offishly courts. Rude gits croon offishly.               Horridly scoff to genius. Curse It! off shy drooling.             Filthiness or goofy crud. Fondly if to his scourger.              Noisy or frightful codes. If the ground-floor cissy.              Sniff courtesy girlhood. Strongly officious herd.                Curse It! dog nor offishly. Curse It! god nor offishly.             Ridge offishly contours. Offishly roosting crude.                Rude git croons offishly. Horridly scoffing to sue.               Glorified or cushy fonts. Touchers glorify so find.               Scourger if fondly hoist. Stuffy heroics drooling.                Gosh! Y-fronts ridicule of. Y-fronts ridicule of hogs.              Rigid Y-fronts chose foul. Oh God! frictionless fury.              Sly touchers on frigid of. Odorously cringes fifth.                Sod! scourger if filthy no. If filthy donor scourges.               Coo! fourthly. Frigidness. Shifty drools configure.                Thirdly if on of scourges. Roguishly scoff not ride.               Gosh! crude of in frostily. Frostily choirs on fudge.               Fifty sorcerous holding. Fifty or old grouchiness.               Ouch! frigid Y-fronts lose. Forty if old grouchiness.               Tiny of if rough scolders. Turnoff chooses rigidly.                Off ugly, horrid sections. Horrific young sods left.               Scourged ‘n’ offishly riot. Recording outs offishly.                Offishly courted groins. Offishly crude or on gits.              Flies horrify good cunts. Good! scoff slithery ruin.              Do our slithery scoffing. Roguishly tried on scoff.               Cushion frostily forged. Curse It! if hogs or fondly.            Hedonistic or fury flogs. Off this lousy recording.               Let’s! horrid you scoffing. Directory hogs sinful of.               Dire turnoffs hog cosily. Dirty off slouchier song.               Rudely or to his scoffing. Shiftier, scornful goody.               Ugly, horrific soft nodes. Glory courts fiendish of.               Sorriest young off child. Offishly reducing so. Rot.              Offishly got so incurred. Shortly if so configured.               Scourged if on if shortly. Shortly scourged if in of.              Roguishly if forced snot. Tin or roguishly scoffed.               It nor roguishly scoffed. Roguishly do off cretins.               Soft! roguishly nice ford. Glorified so cushy front.               Shirty, configured fools. Shy scoffing or dire lout.              Fondly, is grouchier soft. Grouchier sod on stiffly.               Secondly rigorous fifth. Hoist or rudely scoffing.               Ugly, horrific of tends so. Filthy or configured SOS.               Filthy foods in scourger. If scourges or filthy don.              Filthy scourges rid on of. Good! filthy furies scorn.              It croons offishly urged. Crooners dug offishly. It.              Offishly. Rigor to dunces. Hourly scoffing so tired.               Slithery scoffing odour. Honestly or frigid focus.               Of in of scourges thirdly. Greyhounds off clitoris.                So touchy of girlfriends. Hysteric if fool grounds.               Rigorous if soft lynched. Touch! of snores frigidly.              Horrific guess to fondly. Is hot scourger if fondly.              Scruffy, idle or shooting. Stuffy dishonorer logic.                Is huge if cold or Y-fronts. Good! icier Y-fronts flush.             Y-fronts foul heroics dig. Ferocity dishonors gulf.                This loony drug officers. Tiny, foolish, crude frogs.             Yes scoffing horrid lout. Ghouls cry ironfisted of.               Dirtying so or foul chefs. In godly, sorcerous fifth.              On stodgy, horrific fuels. Young, horrific felt sods.              Offishly, is good current. I don’t offishly. Scourger.             Offishly do tin scourger. Offishly sign or to crude.              If of or shortly seducing. I scoffed roguishly torn.               Ghostly of if so incurred. Good! cushy or fine flirts.             Fools if touchy grinders. Slouchy, ironfisted frog.               Horny of flogs crudities. Frigid, uncool shyster of.              Frostily forced housing. Oh No! scourged if firstly.             Not defy so horrific slug. Curses! on fifty girlhood.              Is huge Y-fronts frolic do. Y-fronts if so rogue child.             Consider if frosty ghoul. I don’t see me in there. Should I be offended. (Where is this anagram generator, and what does it get from Mike S. Medintz? I know my wu-name is Vangelic Surgeon…) There’s a site, www.anagramgenius.com, that will take your text and e-mail you the anagrams.   It’s a one-at-a-time thing (they’re really just trying to sell you the software), but it’s a freebie.   Depending on the backlog, the response time can vary, but ten minutes is the longest I’ve waited. wu-name? Joe F.

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Question:

<cruel gastronomic description filleted Hell of a thing to do to a guy at three in the afternoon with nothing edible is sight! But this is the kind of story we like to read.  While mostly a C&R fisherman (Egad, here it comes again!!) I do nevertheless keep enough to treat myself once in a while.  Your description of smoked ducks brings to mind my favorite preparation for trout.  We set them on the Weber, as far from a small pile of glowing coals as possible and leave them for about an hour and a half, all the while adding small amounts of soaked hickory chips to the fire; just enough to keep the smoke going strong.  Sinfully good!  But to top it off (and healthy be damned!) I like to slather on a bit of brie. As for the elk, or any of it’s relatives for that matter, my favorite is still soaking in olive oil for a few hours, wrapping in bacon and grilling over a hot bed of coals until medium rare, at most.  Personally I prefer rare, but most of the people with whom I enjoy this treat like it cooked a bit more.  For those who like to live close to the edge in these diet conscious days, the aforementioned soft cheese can also be applied to red meat. Also……but no, it’ll have to wait for another time….I gotta go get something to eat!

Response:

Actually, last April we dined on a brace of Elk Steaks marinated for

(delicious feast snipped) Omigosh, Larry! If you can’t figure out anything worthwhile to do with your elk, let me know what Wolfgang can’t use and I’ll send you my UPS address! Hate to see it go to waist (sp intentional!). Drooling out loud, Rick

Response:

As for the elk, or any of it’s relatives for that matter, my favorite is still soaking in olive oil for a few hours, wrapping in bacon and grilling over a hot bed of coals until medium rare, at most.  Personally I prefer rare, but most of the people with whom I enjoy this treat like it cooked a bit more.  For those who like to live close to the edge in these diet conscious days, the aforementioned soft cheese can also be applied to red meat.

While simultaneously drooling on my keyboard, I gotta ask: Not that it’s stopped me from slurping down raw oysters or eating my steaks rare, but we’ve all seen the "news magazine" horror stories about contamination of domestic meats; and we’ve all been cautioned about the wisdom of thoroughly cooking our food.   So this "wild meat" thread has me wondering.   Nutritional values aside, is there a similar risk of e-coli or parasitic infection from eating game cooked rare?   Just wondering. Joe F.

Response:

Joe- I’m sure the same concerns exist, especially because this meat isn’t irradiated to kill any potential diseases and like most hunters, the animals are field dressed, packaged well enough to pack out against the heat of one’s body on a frame and kept from thorough refrigeration for a day or more……then brought home in the bed of a truck or some such device. Same’s true for ducks, geese, pheasant, quail, etc….most hunters will bring em home and hang em for a couple of days prior to guttin’ and pluckin’ em…. helps to age the meat some and also makes em easier to dress out…. But with that said, I gotta ALSO say this….I’ve eaten wild game for some 35 years now, on at least 6 occassions a year (not counting the jerky and salame!!) and have NEVER gotten a case of gastrointestinal distention, much less any more disastrous effect from it, aside from gettin’ stuffed like a pig and not knowing when to say ENOUGH!!!  (BTW, Wild Pig is great too!!!) Now to the rest of you…sorry to set y’all to droolin’ in the middle of the day…..just wasn’t a prudent thing to do, I mean someday I KNOW all a y’all will return the favor =)   Especially those of you who have access to CRAWFISH!!!!   Oh yeah….neighbor has a pair of bucks down at the butcher shop as we speak……hee hee hee…. Larry #:)#

Response:

[pared] Now to the rest of you…sorry to set y’all to droolin’ in the middle of the day…..just wasn’t a prudent thing to do, I mean someday I KNOW all a y’all will return the favor =)   Especially those of you who have access to CRAWFISH!!!!   Oh yeah….neighbor has a pair of bucks down at the butcher shop as we speak……hee hee hee….

Geezus Christmas! Between you and Wolfie (and even "Oyster Joe" ;^) I’m dying here! Show some mercy for someone who had to deal with airline food today! /daytripper (rummaging through the ‘fridge…)

Response:

rare, but we’ve all seen the "news magazine" horror stories about

(contamination, etc) wondering.   Nutritional values aside, is there a similar risk of e-coli or parasitic infection from eating game cooked rare?   Just wondering.

Joe, Don’t know how accurate this info is (wouldn’t want anyone getting sick) but during one of the recent e. coli outbreaks, I was reading some "warning" info in the paper. Author seemed to think the problem with rare meat (red meat, not poultry, which has its own caveats) occurs primarily with ground meat as opposed to "cut" meat like steaks, roasts, etc. The advice was based on the idea that bacteria grow on the surface of the meat and are killed by heat, so the "cut" meat can be cooked rare as long as the outside was cooked well. Ground meat becomes a problem as you shape it into patties or whatever because what was once on the surface could be mixed into the interior and therefore you should cook to much greater degree of "doneness" to ensure you got the bugs. Your local ag extension office probably has a nutritionist that can put this to rest. If not, let me know and I’ll check–my brother-in-law is an extension agent and I’m sure has some info available. Anyway, the newspaper article makes sense on the surface, but I’d like to hear other opinions… Cheers, Rick

Response:

If it makes you all feel better, I caught a 12 inch smallmouth bass today. First cast too! Man are they tasty! ……Well, time for supper!

: [pared] : : Now to the rest of you…sorry to set y’all to droolin’ in the middle of : the day…..just wasn’t a prudent thing to do, I mean someday I KNOW all : a y’all will return the favor =)   Especially those of you who have : access to CRAWFISH!!!!   Oh yeah….neighbor has a pair of bucks down at : the butcher shop as we speak……hee hee hee…. : Geezus Christmas! Between you and Wolfie (and even "Oyster Joe" ;^) : I’m dying here! : Show some mercy for someone who had to deal with airline food today! : /daytripper (rummaging through the ‘fridge…) — I’m a Canadian eh!                                              Steve. The FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking is at: http://w3.uwyo.edu/~metal The metalworking drop box  is at           http://www.metalworking.com                                     or     http://208.213.200.132 Visit my website at: http://www.victoria.tc.ca/~ud233/homepage.htm

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From a river or lake……? do you think it was big enough to have spawned it’s first time….?john

Response:

<good analysis snipped I have thought about this issue long and hard for a long time.  Like Larry, I’ve eaten a lot of game over the years and have never suffered any ill effects from lightly cooked meat.  In fact, I eat venison or some sort of game bird about once a week. Ground meat is obviously more dangerous for the reasons mentioned, i.e. any surface contamination is thoroughly mixed into the center of the mass where the bacteria cannot be killed except by thorough cooking.  But I believe that the problem is exacerbated by the way commercially packaged meat is handled.  The game I eat is processed at home in very small masses.  A couple of birds at a time or a single deer.  Compare this with the beef you just bought at the grocery store.  This package of meat just went down the same line as some hundreds or thousands of pounds of meat processed in the same day.  Any bacterial contamination has all day to grow and multiply.  Add to this the fact that sanitation between days may be less than perfect and you have a situation in which the proliferation of E. choli, Salmonella or other bacteria is virtually assured.  Obviously, contamination can be minimized by scrupulously cleaning all work surfaces but we all know how easy it is for someone to get a little bit careless, especially some underpaid meat cutter bored to distraction by a mindless routine job. In short, it seems to me that, counterintuitively, game processed and packaged at home is likely to be safer than commercially packed meat because it isn’t dragged through the same slime as tons of other meat. Bon Apetit!

Response:

From a lake. There are no smallmouth bass in rivers around here. At 12 inches they have spawned many times!

: From a river or lake……? : do you think it was big enough to have spawned it’s first time….?john — I’m a Canadian eh!                                              Steve. The FAQ for rec.crafts.metalworking is at: http://w3.uwyo.edu/~metal The metalworking drop box  is at           http://www.metalworking.com                                     or     http://208.213.200.132 Visit my website at: http://www.victoria.tc.ca/~ud233/homepage.htm

Response:

snip< Bon Apetit!

Thanks Rick, Larry, Dave, & Wolfgang.   My curiosity, if not my appetite, is satisfied. I think I’ll have some sushi tonight. Joe F. "I always eat my oysters fried. That way I know my oyster’s died."     ….Roy Blount, Jr.

Response:

Hello: My second posting ever…but I could use some suggestions. Am trying to tie the Henry’s Fork hopper……bundled elk or deer hair, extended body, etc. I have a little tourble with purportions but that’ll take time I guess.  But most especially, when reversing the elk hair for the body it seems to break and make a rough tail on the body…which is not what I bought…and don’t want to, anymore! I’ve got the books but need some experience…..’hints & kinks’, etc. Thanks for everything you folks post….I appreciate you! Buff

Response:

I would give it up.  The best hopper imitation I have used, is the old trusty Letort Hopper.  I’ve caught lots of big, streamwise brown trout on that fly. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: My second posting ever…but I could use some suggestions. Am trying to tie the Henry’s Fork hopper……bundled elk or deer hair, extended body, etc. I have a little tourble with purportions but that’ll take time I guess. But most especially, when reversing the elk hair for the body it seems to break and make a rough tail on the body…which is not what I bought…and don’t want to, anymore! I’ve got the books but need some experience…..’hints & kinks’, etc. Thanks for everything you folks post….I appreciate you! Buff

Response:

My first two guesses are: 1) You’re using TOO MUCH hair     try using less first 2) You’re using the wrong hair or old hair     if it’s from the wrong part of the elk or it’s old, it’ll break when you bend/fold it Larry #:)#

Response:

My first two guesses are: 1) You’re using TOO MUCH hair    try using less first 2) You’re using the wrong hair or old hair    if it’s from the wrong part of the elk or it’s old, it’ll break when you bend/fold it Larry #:)#

I agree with Larry on #2.  Also might be the wrong thread.  If the thread is too small it will cut through the hair as well. Warren

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My first two guesses are: 1) You’re using TOO MUCH hair    try using less first 2) You’re using the wrong hair or old hair    if it’s from the wrong part of the elk or it’s old, it’ll break when you bend/fold it Larry #:)# I agree with Larry on #2.  Also might be the wrong thread.  If the thread is too small it will cut through the hair as well. Warren

_______  Warren?  Good point.  Larry Madina also has the perfect suggestion but he didn’t say what area on an Elk is best.  Let’s look at the Wapiti or deer family of different animals. 1) There are many different ways to tie Deer Hair style Caddis patterns.  Many. 2) The hair on herbivores (from the ground, up) on the legs or shins, it is thinnest and smallest in diameter.  Also around the face and/or mask area. 3) The largest diameter hair is around the belly.  The belly is the boiler room and contains a lot of blood and needs to be kept warm because it also is the area that has the largest surface area on herbivores that must survive in freezing outdoor temperatures.  This hair is also the thickest and has large, hollow hairs.  Air inside these belly hairs is a dramatic insulator against cold.  The hair also contains a lot of underdubbing/fur/matting/etc. that is a ‘blanket’ against wind.  It is what keeps wind from getting THRU the hair and against the skin/hide.  It is an interesting study in nature’s engineering. The hollowness of Elk hair, when you spin certain patterns such as muddler heads, when you bear down with the tying thread is what makes it explode or open up.  This ‘kinking’ is nothing more then a way to make the hair do what you want it to do.  Shin hairs do not flair out like the hollower hairs around the belly of elk and/or deer. The hair on the back of herbivores is also thin in diameter and not as thick.  Why?  I cannot but venture a guess.  Its not necessary because the body heat inside happens to keep the roof dry, sort of speaking. This is also a good area or source for selecting Elk hair. 4)  When one is in a fly shop, you have to know what you’re looking at with each package which has but a small piece of and entire Elk inside it.  You need to know what is leg hair, what is belly hair, what is neck hair, what is facial hair, what is back hair, what is flank hair, etc. And so it goes. Elk Hair patterns seldom use large diameter Elk Hair.  I usually use the back and most often leg hair.  The Caddis wing only needs to flair just a little.  It is not necessary to fold it back after tying it in at the head/forward.  These are not hollow hairs and when Ginked, its enough to float a caddis that has no hollow Elk or Deer Hair.  I tie a great many of my Caddis Patterns with Mule Deer because I happen to like the black and coloration of Mule Deer above all things regarding ‘Caddis’. However; Elk Hair comes in colors and shadings other then blonde.   So when fly tiers are talking HOW TO tie any pattern, the industry at large should start stating WHAT part of an Elk/Deer they are using. This is vital information but somehow, everyone seems to not think its important.  I, on the other hand think it is vital, if anyone is to tie a fly that has ‘the proper signature’ of that offered by its author. To Larry Madina, who I think is an above average fly tier, I hope you can agree that this information is proper regarding flies tied with the hairs from herbivores.  That being more specific is indeed, rather important. Hope this helps Warren the cause of tying really great Caddis Patterns. Lets face it. Throughout most trout rivers and streams, its really "The Caddis" that is king. We can discuss it more over at the camp site some evening.  Hours between 1700 PDT and 2000 EST.   Gink Keeps It Up — Mr. G.   http://www.gink.com/chat   "Flyfisherman’s Camp Fires Burning" Fly Fishing’s Talking Camp Site  

Question:

Now, what did you expect making a comment like that n a jeep ng…. What a weenie…

Response:

 Lately,  I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase:    "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!"  Ok.   I guess I don’t really get it.  But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing".

You don’t understand its a Jeep thing. — Its a Jeep thing..You would’t understand. URL: http://the-threshold.org/gallery/jeep                   OR Its an Anoraks thing.. You don’t want to understand URL: http://the-threshold.org/Anorak-Offroad

Response:

 Lately,  I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting… " What thing is it?" asks Jimmy.  " It’s not ANYTHING," says the 4runner driver. "it’s just a damn car." —-Muskie

  that was funny. Sorry guys and gals. I have to be a traitor on this one. I live in a college town. And here the average Jeep driver’s values and experiences have very little in line with me. Unless it’s clearly built or restored, it’s just another car. -ejs

Response:

 Lately,  I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase:    "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!"  Ok.   I guess I don’t really get it.  But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing". You don’t understand its a Jeep thing.

Is this anything like "alternative music" ? —

Response:

Wow! If it isn’t Muskie the Wonder Troll returning to haunt our newsgroups!   Lately,  I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase:   "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!"

You still can’t get it right:  "It’s a Jeep thing… you wouldn’t understand" is the phrase. Ok.   I guess I don’t really get it.  But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing". It seems many(not all) Jeepers want to belong to a group of rugged individualists.  They feel that having a rugged Jeep sets them apart from the rest of society and makes them "different" somehow. What is this? Words like "belong"  and "group" and "individualists" really seem to contradict each other don’t they?  It seems many Jeepers want to be different, just like all the different people.

Those that I have seen who have actually bestowed the phrase on their vehicle are generally those who actually take the vehicles off-road, go camping, lead an active life style, toss on a trailer of jet-ski’s or dirt bikes and actually have a life.  These people go to the Jeep Jamboree’s, the Trail Runs, etc.  They are far from ’sheep’ though a few to many people who are following the Jones’s unfortunately do buy them instead of mock-SUV’s like the Explorer. Modems.. the lightning rods of the ’90’s! (sigh) Don’t bother to E-mail.. not using my account.

Response:

How much would an Old Man Emu lift cost on an 86 cherokee?  I am looking for ball park estimates on the ~3" lift reviewed on off-road.com (i think). Also, are there web sources for Old Man Emu ordering? Thanks, jeremiah — 86 cherokee – soon to be a 3.4 L V6!!!!

Response:

Lately,  I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase:   "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!"

If your idiotic flame bait bothered me at all, you might be right… Motorcycles have the same cadre relationship.  When you’re on a bike or a harley, almost *everybody* waves.  It is no different, and I think anybody who buys a jeep or a bike only for the waves is going to be sorely disappointed. Besides, it IS a JEEP thing, and you CLEARLY DO NOT understand.  at all… jeremiah — 86 cherokee – soon to be a 3.4 L V6!!!!

Response:

few to many people who are following the Jones’s unfortunately do buy them instead of mock-SUV’s like the Explorer.

I for one appreciate all the Yuppie’s buying new cherokees and TJs… I see it as fodder for myself in 5 or 6 years when I’ll be buying a used 99… just think of all those Yuppie jeeps as replacement parts.  never seen the mud, never been bashed over rocks or seen any real duty.  I think its just great. jeremiah — 86 cherokee – soon to be a 3.4 L V6!!!!

Response:

few to many people who are following the Jones’s unfortunately do buy them instead of mock-SUV’s like the Explorer. I for one appreciate all the Yuppie’s buying new cherokees and TJs… I see it as fodder for myself in 5 or 6 years when I’ll be buying a used 99… just think of all those Yuppie jeeps as replacement parts.  never seen the mud, never been bashed over rocks or seen any real duty.  I think its just great.

hehe, I must admit I never thought of it that way.. but I have thought of it as a way to keep the vehicles in production and to keep the prices somewhat down.. on the other hand the high demand has surged what should be an $18-22k vehicle up to nearly $40k.. almost a full half of which is profit for Chrysler. Modems.. the lightning rods of the ’90’s! (sigh) Don’t bother to E-mail.. not using my account.

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HUH?! Where the hell is your point? Meanwhile, if you don’t understand – don’t bother trying.  Obviously, you don’t own a Jeep, so there’s your first obstacle.  The next is being a brand-loyal four-wheeler, where everybody who doesn’t drive you’re particular make of vehicle is pond-scum.  And finally, you’re a little dissatisfied with whatever make of vehicle you’re driving (and a little envious of a Jeep) to take issue with something you don’t or want to understand.  Get a life. I do think that we, as four-wheelers, need to recognize all makes and models as brethren and form an even larger following with a much more accurate motto:  "It’s a 4×4 thing…you asphalt-bound grocery-getters certainly wouldn’t understand."  Anybody with a purpose-built, fill-tilt-boogie off road rig (no matter what it is) gets a wave and nod-of-approval from me. Until then, it’s just us Jeepers… Eric ‘80 CJ-7 – 4" Pro Comp, 33×15.50 Swampers, and way too many other things to mention, ‘85 Nissan King Cab 4×4 – 31×10.50 AT’s, no lift, gets me to work and pulls the boat. — Opinions, everybody’s got one of those, too. You know how to Reply…

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Muskie,        Just when we thought Mr. Troll himself had finally gone away it slithers back in… I have a jeep because I always wanted one and I could care less who else has one. The jeep wave is a tradition, not really a club thing.  I know, you don’t get it. What does "It’s a jeep thing" mean?  It’s a diverse cultural association.  I think you exemplify a jeep cultural disassociation when you wrote "it’s just a d*** car."  That’s the difference.  I doubt you’re bright enough to figure it out though. Don To avoid a flame war I must add.  I am biased to jeeps but there are other manufacturers that build excellent vehicles.  This retort is aimed specifically at Muskie and not other vehicle afficianados. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Lately,  I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase:    "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!"  Ok.   I guess I don’t really get it.  But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing".  It seems many(not all) Jeepers want to belong to a group of rugged  individualists.  They feel that having a rugged Jeep sets them apart  from the rest of society and makes them "different" somehow.  What is this? Words like "belong"  and "group" and "individualists" really seem to contradict each other don’t they?  It seems many Jeepers want to be different, just like all the different people. <really long boring story snipped   Meanwhile, Jimmy is on a nearby forest road, about to park at a turnoff near a fishing stream.  Jimmy drives a Chevy 4×4 full size. He parks his rig and takes his 6 foot fly rod case out of the bed, and unloads his gear.  A man in a toyota 4runner drives by and waves. The man in the 4runner turns around to talk to the man about the fishing.    " How do you like the full size chevy?"  asks the 4runner driver.  " I like it just fine". Jimmy responds.  " how do you like your 4runner?" asks jimmy.   " I like it just fine", says the 4runner driver.   " What thing is it?" asks Jimmy.  " It’s not ANYTHING," says the 4runner driver. "it’s just a damn car." —-Muskie

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Well, when I see somebody in a 90-96 300ZX I certainly wave… Alex

[big snip]

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No that would be a RAV4, CRV, etc… No one knows what the hell it is and what purpose it serves!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Lately,  I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase:    "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!"  Ok.   I guess I don’t really get it.  But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing". You don’t understand its a Jeep thing. Is this anything like "alternative music" ? —

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 The only so called "jeepers" who really know what the "jeep thing" is, are the one’s who actually see the logic behind driving in the rain with a bikini and no doors as everyone looks at you thinking "you idiot, youre getting wet"!  I’ll share that logic with you too……It’s FUN!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lately,  I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase:   "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!" Ok.   I guess I don’t really get it.  But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing". It seems many(not all) Jeepers want to belong to a group of rugged individualists.  They feel that having a rugged Jeep sets them apart from the rest of society and makes them "different" somehow. What is this? Words like "belong"  and "group" and "individualists" really seem to contradict each other don’t they?  It seems many Jeepers want to be different, just like all the different people. Here comes Barbi Anne, driving her new pink Jeep onto the gravel national forest road. Ken is heading her way in his new blue Jeep, and he waves the "jeep wave" to Barbi. Barbi waves back, smiling and giggling.  "I really belong" , thinks Barbi. " I really belong to a group of people that like me for my automobile purchase.  I feel really good about that."   Barbi Anne smiles a faint smile and continues down the road.  A few seconds later, Outback Johnny passes Barbi Anne in his new green Jeep, and waves. Barbi Anne waves back. Continuing down the road, Barbi Anne responds to 34 waves from Jeepers.  " It’s a Jeep thing!"  they all yell at her. " It’s a Jeep thing!" Further down the road, Barbi Anne’s progress is temporarily halted by a herd of sheep crossing the road to greener pastures. She listens to their bleating and babbling, and observes how they all huddle together. "baaaaa…..baaaaaaaaa…bleeeeeeeet…….baaaaaaaaa".  The sheep huddle even closer across the road. " baaaaaaaa…its a jeep thing….. ……bleeeeeettttt."   The sheep babble even louder, then slowly pass over a low hill on the horizon.   Barbi Anne drives her Jeep down the road, glad that she was pressured by friends to belong to the "Jeep Thing".  Meanwhile, Jimmy is on a nearby forest road, about to park at a turnoff near a fishing stream.  Jimmy drives a Chevy 4×4 full size. He parks his rig and takes his 6 foot fly rod case out of the bed, and unloads his gear.  A man in a toyota 4runner drives by and waves. The man in the 4runner turns around to talk to the man about the fishing.    " How do you like the full size chevy?"  asks the 4runner driver.  " I like it just fine". Jimmy responds. " how do you like your 4runner?" asks jimmy.   " I like it just fine", says the 4runner driver.  " What thing is it?" asks Jimmy.  " It’s not ANYTHING," says the 4runner driver. "it’s just a damn car." —-Muskie

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Wow, I guess you don’t understand.  I for one have always loved the Wrangler, and I just bought my 98 TJ in June(having no knowledge of the "Jeep Thing" or the waves I would get from fellow Jeepers)  I actually had to ask a friend who owns a YJ about the wave….he told me H wasn’t sure about it either.  As soon as I hit 1500 miles, I was off the pavement, with the top and the door removed.  I have no problem with any brand of 4X4, although I like some less than others  But honestly, I have never seen another group of drivers as friendly with those they don’t know or as willing to help out when someone needs it.  I’ve taken my stock(so far) jeep a few places a little above the level I should, and the one time I got stuck, I was still amazed how well it did. Ok, no more rambling…..I’m sure you’re sick of me by now

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I had a jeep and I loved it thy are good for mud raceing and for what ever ** HAVE A NICE DAY LARRY & KAREN **

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The jeeps I drove for many years were OD, that’s a different thing. The only thing now is Jeeps have become another temporary fad for the brtaibnless yuppies. This too soon will pass and jeeps will go back to being driven by real people who like them for what they are instead of a phoney status symbol. I can wait. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Lately,  I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase:    "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!"  Ok.   I guess I don’t really get it.  But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing".  It seems many(not all) Jeepers want to belong to a group of rugged  individualists.  They feel that having a rugged Jeep sets them apart  from the rest of society and makes them "different" somehow.  What is this? Words like "belong"  and "group" and "individualists" really seem to contradict each other don’t they?  It seems many Jeepers want to be different, just like all the different people.  Here comes Barbi Anne, driving her new pink Jeep onto the gravel national forest road. Ken is heading her way in his new blue Jeep,  and he waves the "jeep wave" to Barbi. Barbi waves back, smiling and giggling.  "I really belong" , thinks Barbi. " I really belong to a group of people that like me for my automobile purchase.  I feel really good about that."   Barbi Anne smiles a faint smile and continues down the road.  A few seconds later, Outback Johnny passes Barbi Anne in his new green Jeep, and waves. Barbi Anne waves back.  Continuing down the road, Barbi Anne responds to 34 waves from Jeepers.   " It’s a Jeep thing!"  they all yell at her. " It’s a Jeep thing!"  Further down the road, Barbi Anne’s progress is temporarily halted by a herd of sheep crossing the road to greener pastures. She listens to their bleating and babbling, and observes how they all huddle together.  "baaaaa…..baaaaaaaaa…bleeeeeeeet…….baaaaaaaaa".  The sheep  huddle even closer across the road. " baaaaaaaa…its a jeep thing….. ……bleeeeeettttt."   The sheep babble even louder, then slowly pass over a low hill on the horizon.   Barbi Anne drives her Jeep down the road, glad that she was pressured by friends to belong to the "Jeep Thing".   Meanwhile, Jimmy is on a nearby forest road, about to park at a turnoff near a fishing stream.  Jimmy drives a Chevy 4×4 full size. He parks his rig and takes his 6 foot fly rod case out of the bed, and unloads his gear.  A man in a toyota 4runner drives by and waves. The man in the 4runner turns around to talk to the man about the fishing.    " How do you like the full size chevy?"  asks the 4runner driver.  " I like it just fine". Jimmy responds.  " how do you like your 4runner?" asks jimmy.   " I like it just fine", says the 4runner driver.   " What thing is it?" asks Jimmy.  " It’s not ANYTHING," says the 4runner driver. "it’s just a damn car." —-Muskie

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few to many people who are following the Jones’s unfortunately do buy them instead of mock-SUV’s like the Explorer. I for one appreciate all the Yuppie’s buying new cherokees and TJs… I see it as fodder for myself in 5 or 6 years when I’ll be buying a used 99… just think of all those Yuppie jeeps as replacement parts.  never seen the mud, never been bashed over rocks or seen any real duty.  I think its just great.

I agree with this.  The only problem is that it seems a number of the new Jeeps are automatics.  Frankly, that’s sacrilege! — Cheers…Craig — Good manners and bad breath get you nowhere – Elvis Costello — It’s no use to blame the looking glass if your face is awry – S.J. Perelman — People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don’t realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world – Calvin (& Hobbes)

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The only so called "jeepers" who really know what the "jeep thing" is, are the one’s who actually see the logic behind driving in the rain with a bikini and no doors as everyone looks at you thinking "you idiot, youre getting wet"!  I’ll share that logic with you too……It’s FUN!!!

I often get asked if my Miata is a rental since I usually leave the top down unless it is absolutely pouring or I’m in stop/go traffic. Others don’t understand that Jeeps are waterproofed from the get-go, right down to a pair of drain holes in the floorboards! Ever wonder why most CJ and Wrangler variants didn’t even come with carpetting on the floors? Too bad it’s a hassle to take the doors off and front window down now.. (sigh) Modems.. the lightning rods of the ’90’s! (sigh) Don’t bother to E-mail.. not using my account.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve only had my ‘90 YJ for about 2years but …….here’s my two cents….about the "Its a jeep thing" motto I was a Boy Scout growing up, did alot of camping every summer, I was taught to respect nature, be resourceful, prepared, efficient while also being simple and functional. IMHO jeeps fit in very smoothly w/ my yuppie who only buys a jeep for the "image", and never takes it off roading….what a waste….. I dont remember where I read it, but another jeep owner made the observation that when cruising down the road/trail jeep owners inevitably always nod/wave/check out each others jeep, but you hardly ever/never see other people check out each others Metro/Toyota/Caprice/whatever……Jeeps have a tradition and jeep owners who humbly acknowledge this are the coolest. People who live by the "Its a Jeep thing motto", stop to help others out, dont drive recklessly, etc…..I think I’ll quit my rambling now……

Thank you for stating so eloquently what a lot of us are all about! Btw, I’m lucky enough to be a member of two very distinct ‘families’, the Jeep Family (by way of a lightly modded ‘93 ZJ V8 which has nearly 1/3rd of it’s 62,000 miles off road!) and the Miata club which, at least in off-road deprived Florida, is the more active and certainly more friendly of the two.  I also fall under the helping hand column. Heck, it was only Friday afternoon that I helped a poor lady push her out of gas car half a mile down the road to get it off of the worst part of the freeway.  :) You’re right.. some people just don’t get it. Modems.. the lightning rods of the ’90’s! (sigh) Don’t bother to E-mail.. not using my account.

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damn muskie that was good. i haven`t had such a good laugh in a long time . the thoughts of you playing on the floor with your barbie & ken dolls in jeeps cracked me up. could you entertain us with something about " its a 4×4 thing "  or  " its a harley thing "  or maybe a tough one like " its a man thing " ?  but please dont use your ken & barbie dolls again, i couldn`t stand the laughter. Jim

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<excellent commentary snipped Some Jeep drivers understand that.  Nothing against Toyotas or Chevys or any other vehicle or the people that driver them…it’s just a Jeep thing.

Here’s one hint: Why does everyone in a CRV, Rav-4, Tracker, Sidekick, Samurai, etc. always say "We’ll take my Jeep" but no one in a Jeep would ever say "We’ll take my CRV, etc."? There is only one Jeep. Modems.. the lightning rods of the ’90’s! (sigh) Don’t bother to E-mail.. not using my account.

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   "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!"  Ok.   I guess I don’t really get it.  But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing".  It seems many(not all) Jeepers want to belong to a group of rugged  individualists.  They feel that having a rugged Jeep sets them apart  from the rest of society and makes them "different" somehow.  What is this? Words like "belong"  and "group" and "individualists" really seem to contradict each other don’t they?  It seems many Jeepers want to be different, just like all the different people.

No, it’s true that you don’t understand but that’s okay. The sheep that you’re referring to might be the demographic majority of Jeep drivers, but those are not the people who wave at each other and say "It’s a Jeep thing."  The "Jeep thing" element, you might find, has more disdain for "sorority Jeeps," "college Jeeps," "soccer mom Jeeps," "street jeeps" and "yuppie Jeeps" than anybody. Some people like F-14s and others would rather ride a P-38 or a P-51. Some people don’t know what a P-38 is, but they’ve seen Top Gun so they think they’re aviation enthusiasts. There are those that want to belong to a group of rugged individualists, and there are those that just do.  (I’ll be modest here as I can, but as a pilot, rock singer, writer, computer geek, civil war reenactor and active environmentalist, I might not be rugged but I’m individualist…) Jeep was the first word I learned to spell, and I promised by grandfather when I was three that I would buy him a Jeep.  Image had nothing to do with it.  My oldest toy, a 1960s Tonka Jeep CJ3B, sits on my desk at work. Raise your hand if you had an infatuation with Nissan when you were three. The thing is, if you go over to the Jeep newsgroup, you’ll see that I’m not an exception…I’m average.  Probably less that average if you pay attention to the complexity of knowledge of their vehicle that some people there have.  You’ll also notice their head spin to look when they see a Willys other other vintage Jeep.  It has nothing to do with the driver. Don’t think about the guy behind the wheel…think of the Jeep. Regardless of the year, a Jeep stripped of its hard top and doors is a classic.  If you’ve ever driven through the country, tackled an ominous "intermediate" 4×4 trail with a stock Jeep or even just cruised the highway with the top off on a sunny day, you understand.  If you’ve ever pulled off the side of the road on an August evening and looked straight up at a meteor shower, you’re getting there.   If you’ve ever yanked a built-up vehicle out of a mudhole or driven your stock Jeep around a 4×4 bogged down on a snow-covered hill, you’re there. Not to trash other 4×4s…I’ve seen old Landcruisers and a heavily-modified Samurai command respect where lesser drivers in Jeeps failed…but why drive a flimsy, overpriced derivative when you can drive the real thing?   There’s just nothing like climbing up into an old CJ and staring down the short nose.  It has the feel of an old warbird…the sound of the engine, the smell of the Jeep, the feeling that you’ve strapped on wheels. It’s not the fault of Jeep drivers that these sturdy classics appear to have gone soft, but while middle America drives around the suburb in the Jeep equivalent of a sports car, those of us die-hard Jeep fans who have driven the new TJs have come to appreciate that under the cloth and plastic interior there is still a bad-ass trail truck that isn’t laden down with mystery parts and strange devices that prevent us from getting under them and making our own modifications. Some Jeep drivers understand that.  Nothing against Toyotas or Chevys or any other vehicle or the people that driver them…it’s just a Jeep thing. Chris Gattman              |  "..And the sky is humming,

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I’ve only had my ‘90 YJ for about 2years but …….here’s my two cents….about the "Its a jeep thing" motto I was a Boy Scout growing up, did alot of camping every summer, I was taught to respect nature, be resourceful, prepared, efficient while also being simple and functional. IMHO jeeps fit in very smoothly w/ my yuppie who only buys a jeep for the "image", and never takes it off roading….what a waste….. I dont remember where I read it, but another jeep owner made the observation that when cruising down the road/trail jeep owners inevitably always nod/wave/check out each others jeep, but you hardly ever/never see other people check out each others Metro/Toyota/Caprice/whatever……Jeeps have a tradition and jeep owners who humbly acknowledge this are the coolest. People who live by the "Its a Jeep thing motto", stop to help others out, dont drive recklessly, etc…..I think I’ll quit my rambling now…… –jason

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 Lately,  I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase:    "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!"  Ok.   I guess I don’t really get it.  But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing".  It seems many(not all) Jeepers want to belong to a group of rugged  individualists.  They feel that having a rugged Jeep sets them apart  from the rest of society and makes them "different" somehow.  What is this? Words like "belong"  and "group" and "individualists" really seem to contradict each other don’t they?  It seems many Jeepers want to be different, just like all the different people.  Here comes Barbi Anne, driving her new pink Jeep onto the gravel national forest road. Ken is heading her way in his new blue Jeep,  and he waves the "jeep wave" to Barbi. Barbi waves back, smiling and giggling.  "I really belong" , thinks Barbi. " I really belong to a group of people that like me for my automobile purchase.  I feel really good about that."   Barbi Anne smiles a faint smile and continues down the road.  A few seconds later, Outback Johnny passes Barbi Anne in his new green Jeep, and waves. Barbi Anne waves back.  Continuing down the road, Barbi Anne responds to 34 waves from Jeepers.   " It’s a Jeep thing!"  they all yell at her. " It’s a Jeep thing!"  Further down the road, Barbi Anne’s progress is temporarily halted by a herd of sheep crossing the road to greener pastures. She listens to their bleating and babbling, and observes how they all huddle together.  "baaaaa…..baaaaaaaaa…bleeeeeeeet…….baaaaaaaaa".  The sheep  huddle even closer across the road. " baaaaaaaa…its a jeep thing….. ……bleeeeeettttt."   The sheep babble even louder, then slowly pass over a low hill on the horizon.   Barbi Anne drives her Jeep down the road, glad that she was pressured by friends to belong to the "Jeep Thing".   Meanwhile, Jimmy is on a nearby forest road, about to park at a turnoff near a fishing stream.  Jimmy drives a Chevy 4×4 full size. He parks his rig and takes his 6 foot fly rod case out of the bed, and unloads his gear.  A man in a toyota 4runner drives by and waves. The man in the 4runner turns around to talk to the man about the fishing.    " How do you like the full size chevy?"  asks the 4runner driver.  " I like it just fine". Jimmy responds.  " how do you like your 4runner?" asks jimmy.   " I like it just fine", says the 4runner driver.     " What thing is it?" asks Jimmy.  " It’s not ANYTHING," says the 4runner driver. "it’s just a damn car." —-Muskie

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Question:

Hello, Chat with expert author Peter Kaminsky and learn the techniques you’ll need to know to land yourself a whopper! Whether you’re a novice or a veteran angler, "Fly Fishing For Dummies" offers sage advice for choosing the right kind of gear, finding out how and where to catch freshwater and saltwater fish, practicing the art of tying flies, and more. <http://www.dummies.com/community/chat/ Chat Channel: #dummies Chat Server: chat.talkcity.com Hope to see you there! Courtesy of the IDG Books Author Chat Series

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, Chat with expert author Peter Kaminsky and learn the techniques you’ll need to know to land yourself a whopper! Whether you’re a novice or a veteran angler, "Fly Fishing For Dummies" offers sage advice for choosing the right kind of gear, finding out how and where to catch freshwater and saltwater fish, practicing the art of tying flies, and more. <http://www.dummies.com/community/chat/ Chat Channel: #dummies Chat Server: chat.talkcity.com Hope to see you there! Courtesy of the IDG Books Author Chat Series

From the looks of many posts on this site, looks like you came to the right place. We make the insane ward look perfectly normal. Al Marlowe

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Question:

I am interested in learning more about flyfishing for stripers in fresh water.  I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and would like any information that pertains to fishing the SF bay delta area as well.   I would like to know of good books to read and local quides to contact Thanks Stu Booth

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Good places for stripers in the SF area are Franks Tract in the Delta; you will need a boat, and the O’Neill Forebay of San Luis Reservoir which is accessible by canoe, float tube or boat.  The O’Neill is right at the intersection of Rte. 152 and I-5 near Los Banos jsut as you come down out of the Pacheco Pass into the Central Valley.  Although I haven’t caught one yet, there are reported to be a nice population of big stripers in this small lake. There are also stripers to be found in the main reservoir too, but it is a much more formidable piece of water. Pick up a copy of California Fly Fisher.  There are always ads for guides for striper fishing the bay and Franks tract in the back. Good luck–Crashjibe

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Question:

I’ll be camping in the area of Roscoe, N.Y. next week. Any tips on what’s been working successfully in the local streams? (Since I’ve typically fished in California. I have no knowledge of upstate N.Y. fishing).

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I’ll be camping in the area of Roscoe, N.Y. next week. Any tips on what’s been working successfully in the local streams? (Since I’ve typically fished in California. I have no knowledge of upstate N.Y. fishing).

I’d check with the local fly shops–they’re several in the Roscoe area.   Conditions change rapidly at this time of year, and the the shop owner ought to be knowledable. Good luck, Emil Department of Education Phone:  (607) 255-2267 419 Kennedy Hall                Fax:    (607) 255-7905 Cornell University Ithaca, NY 14853

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I’ll be camping in the area of Roscoe, N.Y. next week. Any tips on what’s been working successfully in the local streams? (Since I’ve typically fished in California. I have no knowledge of upstate N.Y. fishing). I’d check with the local fly shops–they’re several in the Roscoe area.   Conditions change rapidly at this time of year, and the the shop owner ought to be knowledable. Good luck, Emil

Just got back from a weekend in the Roscoe area. The water is very low, but fishable. BUT trout are few and far between. The low water seems to have driven most of the fish out.    Your best bet is to head down to the East Branch. We had good fishing in the special reg area upstream from Fishs Eddy. We saw light cahills, slate drakes (isonychia), sulphurs, tiny blue wing olives, yellow cranefly, and all types of caddis. They are releasing water from the dam, which has the water up about a foot, but it is running clear    The West branch is high and discolored from NY releasing water full bore for the last few months.  People are fishing it, but your better off on the East Branch. Todd R. Seigfried    aluxpo.att.com!trs *  Todd Seigfried’ Custom Flies                                       * *  Custom flies, fly tying instruction, Licensed Delaware River Guide *

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Just got back from a weekend in the Roscoe area. The water is very low, but fishable. BUT trout are few and far between. The low water seems to have driven most of the fish out.

Ahem.  There are plenty of fish in the Beaverkill.  They are just hard to catch.  I was also in the Roscoe area last weekend, fishing the Beaverkill and Willowemoc.  I saw plenty of fish, especially in the riffles and deeper pools.  But they were not feeding on the surface despite good hatches of BWOs and other flies.  Managed a few on nymphs, and it is tough fishing.  But there are plenty of fish in the river.

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