Question:

8< Just wondering what other people do to search out fish. Peter

petah, i like swingin wets myself….. jeff miller uses cherry bombs. <g –walt

Response:

Just wondering what other people do to search out fish.

Soft hackles, upstream quartering at varying depths, works for me in late spring and summer.  In Winter, weighted woolly buggers dragged along the bottom usually produce. In late Summer and Autumn, a large bushy dry fly occasionally skittered over the surface is often very productive. TL MC

Response:

<< the penny dropped that swinging a caddis emerger may be a good searching method when everything else is coming up snake eyes.   << Just wondering what other people do to search out fish. Peter Soft hackles, in a size to match what ought to be hatching, or most common in the stream, if I have a clue what that might be.  Ants in Summer.  Grasshoppers in Summer near meadows.  Murray’s Helgrammite below riffles, just  because it produces a big strike once in a long while.  Ditto a crayfish imitation rolled through rocky areas. The best technique I know is to stay out of the water and watch very carefully.  If fish are feeding, eventually you’ll see some clues.  A brown flash of a side as a fish tears up the bottom; a bulge rise to something drowned near the surface; a white mouth flash in mid-water.   Good luck.  The search is the best part. Glenn GKT

Response:

Soft hackles, in a size to match what ought to be hatching, or most common in the stream, if I have a clue what that might be.  Ants in Summer.  Grasshoppers in Summer near meadows.  Murray’s Helgrammite below riffles, just  because it produces a big strike once in a long while.  Ditto a crayfish imitation rolled through rocky areas.

It’s interesting that I started with soft hackles and they always worked well but the last few years, they’ve produced less for me. Back then, I didn’t have a clue what I was doing and I caught fish on them. Now I know what I am supposed to do and I don’t get much.  There’s a lesson in there somewhere. The best technique I know is to stay out of the water and watch very carefully. If fish are feeding, eventually you’ll see some clues.  A brown flash of a side as a fish tears up the bottom; a bulge rise to something drowned near the surface; a white mouth flash in mid-water.  

About the brown flash – on the Grand, I was doing exactly what you suggest, surveying for any sign of feeding fish.  I saw a flash – then some more.  I nymphed the buggers for close to an hour before hooking an landing one – a sucker!! Good luck.  The search is the best part. Glenn GKT

Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

8< Just wondering what other people do to search out fish. Peter petah, i like swingin wets myself….. jeff miller uses cherry bombs. <g –walt

wally, though it often sounds and looks like a cherry bomb exploding, it’s actually just my "delicate" presentation of a stimulator with a nymph dropper. best searching pattern i know for nc mountain streams… as you know peter, we rarely see the fish we stalk in the streams down here (except on certain delayed harvest waters maybe), and we just toss the fly into the most likely holding areas with eternal optimism and steely anticipation. the range of flies that will entice a fish is also probably smaller down here as well.. jeff

Response:

"So anti-pragmatic is he who searches for his own soul in the shadow of the far bank, where success is not in the creatures he predates upon but in the interludes with fellow stream dwellers, for an exalting dance upon the line and rod, or with reserve upon the palate." — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

"The ancients wrote of the three ages of man; I propose to write of the three ages of the fisherman.  When he wants to catch all the fish he can.  When strives to catch the largest fish.  When he studies to catch the most difficult fish he can find, requiring the greatest skill and most refined tackle, caring more for the sport than the fish." Edward R. Hewitt A Trout and Salmon Fisherman for Seventy-Five Years (1948) — Warren Findley Shut up and fish! For Yellowstone Clave info: http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/YNP.html

Response:

"The ancients wrote of the three ages of man; I propose to write of the three ages of the fisherman.  When he wants to catch all the fish he can.  When strives to catch the largest fish.  When he studies to catch the most difficult fish he can find, requiring the greatest skill and most refined tackle, caring more for the sport than the fish." Edward R. Hewitt A Trout and Salmon Fisherman for Seventy-Five Years (1948)

Fly-fishing is the most fun you can have standing up.    - Arnold Gingrich, 1969 — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Fly-fishing is the most fun you can have standing up.    - Arnold Gingrich, 1969

"….knowing a river intimately is a very large part of the joy of fly fishing." Roderick L. Haig-Brown A River Never Sleeps (1946)

Response:

"….knowing a river intimately is a very large part of the joy of fly fishing."

Deep down I’ve always known, fly fishing is to the rest of fishing what high seduction is to rape.    - Robert Traver – Trout Magic, 1974 — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

rw quoted: Deep down I’ve always known, fly fishing is to the rest of fishing what high seduction is to rape.    - Robert Traver – Trout Magic, 1974

What a bunch of snobbish hooey. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

What a bunch of snobbish hooey.

It’s just a quote. Take it up with Robert Traver. (Warning: He’s dead.) — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

 (Warning: He’s dead.)

hell, that ain’t never stopped forty in the past….. voelkerdammerung <g –waldo

Response:

Deep down I’ve always known, fly fishing is to the rest of fishing what high seduction is to rape.

"You’re being a psuedointellectual horse’s ass again. This shit is supposed to be FUN." -Heard at a party, 1998. Spoken by a drunk, probably me. "Why can’t everybody else leave everybody else alone?"                               -Hank Junior

Response:

 (Warning: He’s dead.) hell, that ain’t never stopped forty in the past….. voelkerdammerung <g –waldo

"To me heaven would be a big bull ring with me holding two barrera seats and a trout stream outside that no one else was allowed to fish in and two lovely houses in the town; one where I would have my wife and children and be monogamous and love them truly and well and the other where I would have my nine beautiful mistresses on nine different floors.    - Ernest Hemingway (1899-1961) (Note that he’s dead, too) — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Deep down I’ve always known, fly fishing is to the rest of fishing what high seduction is to rape.    - Robert Traver – Trout Magic, 1974

"There is no substitute for fishing sense, and if a man doesn’t have it, verily, he may cast like and angel and still use his creel largely to transport sandwiches and beer." Robert Traver Trout Madness, 1960 — Warren Findley Shut up and fish! For Yellowstone Clave info: http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/YNP.html

Response:

"You’re being a psuedointellectual horse’s ass again. This shit is supposed to be FUN." -Heard at a party, 1998. Spoken by a drunk, probably me.

"I waded to shore where I sat and considered the inconsistency of anglers in general and the dumbness of one in particular." Ray Bergman Trout, 1949 I think this one would have worked better Mike <g — Warren Findley Shut up and fish! For Yellowstone Clave info: http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/YNP.html

Response:

"There is no substitute for fishing sense, and if a man doesn’t have it, verily, he may cast like and angel and still use his creel largely to transport sandwiches and beer."

which is a damn good reason to own a creel! –walt….. have creel, will travel.

Response:

After coming back from the Porkies and the AuSable, I spent Friday morning on the Grand.  Conditions were low, cold water, gin clear, high sun and no hatches.  I’ve always found that streamers were not productive in these conditions. Nymphing isn’t the best as high sticking puts you too close to the fish, long line nymphing is lousy for strike detection and then there’s the problem of picking the right run.   On the AuSable, the fish were rising but fussy.  I resorted to swinging a caddis emerger to the risers and ended up doing quite well. I’m sitting here doing not much of anything and the penny dropped that swinging a caddis emerger may be a good searching method when everything else is coming up snake eyes. (On the AuSable, I was swinging to rising fish and not using it as a searching method.) Just wondering what other people do to search out fish. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Question:

Two more: 1.  This is not the USenet.  Through the magic of modern technology, people from all over the world can and do post.  Remember this, and try to respect it.  Likely as not, your understanding of French, German, Dutch, whatever is likely not as good as their understanding of English, and in many cases, YOUR English is not as good as their English. 2.  Spell-flame at your own risk.  Yes, we all do it sometimes.  Many drink too much and neither is liable to result in a good feeling. I have found that when I use a "mean" spellflame, I usually spell "cat" with a "k", "moron" with an "e" and spell "spell" with either 1 or 3 "L"s. Picky grammar flames usually come out, "Didt you learn nothing in skool?", but YMMV.  This is not to say a good-natured ribbing re: a humorous tendency to er, lapse is bad, just be careful.  Personally, I don’t like spellcheckers, but again, YMMV. TC, R

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This "guide" is strictly my opinion, and I’m sure comments will be made. As far as I’m concerned, newbies and their appropriate comments are just as welcome as anyone else’s… You are more than welcome on ROFF insofar in that being a "newbie" doesn’t make you unwelcome.  What makes you unwelcome is stepping on your dick as you "walk" in.  I hope this, with additions, serves as a newbie’s guide to ROFF, but it is not a FAQ. <_excellent newbie advise, (and good advise for all posters), snipped Great post; I’m keeping it for future reference.  Here’s a very old newbie usenet lyric.  It’s been around since at least the late 80’s.  Every couple of years I have occasion to post it again.  Enjoy! The Newbie’s Song (Based on the Major General’s song from "The Pirates of Penzance", Gilbert & Sullivan).

Tee Heeeeeeee….yup, purdy damn funny…… TC, R Cheers, and tight lines,

CLINK, thank ya, and back at ya… -Mark

This bring to mind something I forgot.  An addition to my original post: I don’t care WHAT the LookOut Distress manual says, HTML and MIME are not welcome on much of USENET…

Response:

This "guide" is strictly my opinion, and I’m sure comments will be made. As far as I’m concerned, newbies and their appropriate comments are just as welcome as anyone else’s… You are more than welcome on ROFF insofar in that being a "newbie" doesn’t make you unwelcome.  What makes you unwelcome is stepping on your dick as you "walk" in.  I hope this, with additions, serves as a newbie’s guide to ROFF, but it is not a FAQ.

<_excellent newbie advise, (and good advise for all posters), snipped Great post; I’m keeping it for future reference.  Here’s a very old newbie usenet lyric.  It’s been around since at least the late 80’s.  Every couple of years I have occasion to post it again.  Enjoy! The Newbie’s Song (Based on the Major General’s song from "The Pirates of Penzance", Gilbert & Sullivan). I am the very model of a Usenet individual, I’ve information meaningless and ultimately trivial, I know the basic elements of alien biology, And all the hidden secrets of the Church of Scientology, I’ve seen "The Wrath of Khan" and every Star Trek film that followed it, I moan about my Servicecard and how the cash till swallowed it, About the laws on handguns I am sending off a counterblast, With many cheerful facts about the way you can MAKE MONEY FAST! ALL:       With many cheerful facts, etc. I’ll tell you why the Japanese are taking over Panama, And why the USA is still a better place than Canada, In short, in matters meaningless and ultimately trivial, I am the very model of a Usenet individual. ALL:    In short, in matters meaningless and ultimately trivial,           He is the very model of a Usenet individual. I post in alt.revisionism lies about the Holocaust, I cut my .sig to twenty lines, I didn’t want to, I was forced, I really can’t believe the "Good Times" virus to be mythical, And Clinton’s raising taxes which is, frankly, bloody typical, I’ve upset several people on alt.flame, I really don’t know how, And sent a thousand business cards to Mr. and Mrs. Shergold now, I have a very poor grip of political geography, And absolutely no involvement (yet!) in child poronography, ALL:      And absolutely no involement, etc. I’ve paid two-fifty dollars for the Nieman-Marcus recipe, And told the Spanish tourist’s tale about the toothbrush pessary, In short, in matters meaningless and ultimately trivial, I am the very model of a Usenet individual. ALL:    In short, in matters meaningless and ultimately trivial,           He is the very model of a Usenet individual. In fact, when I know what is meant by "binary" and "FTP", When I know how to decode porno JPEGs from a .uue, When I can handle HTML, Telnet, mail and IRC, And when I know the words initialised to form "http", When I have learnt what topics are acceptable in talk.bizarre, When I know more of Usenet than the tailpipe of a motor-car,                - In short, when I’ve a smattering of elementary netiquette, You’ll say a better individual has never surfed the Net. ALL:      You’ll say a better individual, etc. For my technical experience, although I claim to know it all Could barely serve to run the installation disk from AOL; But still, in matters meaningless and ultimately trivial, I am the very model of a Usenet individual. ALL:    But still, in matters meaningless and ultimately trivial,           He is the very model of a Usenet individual. Cheers, and tight lines, -Mark

Response:

To bad this post can’t be the first message anyone gets when they – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This "guide" is strictly my opinion, and I’m sure comments will be made. As far as I’m concerned, newbies and their appropriate comments are just as welcome as anyone else’s… You are more than welcome on ROFF insofar in that being a "newbie" doesn’t make you unwelcome.  What makes you unwelcome is stepping on your dick as you "walk" in.  I hope this, with additions, serves as a newbie’s guide to ROFF, but it is not a FAQ. 1.  Show some level of brain activity: BAD post:  "I live near water.  What do I need?" Good Post: "I live near the xxxxxx River in xxxxxx, xx.  It contains xxxxxxx.  I’d like to spend around xxx.xx.  Any suggestions?"  If you intend on staying awhile, give a short bio, perhaps.  You don’t have to tell the world intimate details, but the basics are nice. 2.  Show a high level of good manners: BP:  "You morons need to just discuss fishing, dammit" (Likely answer: "Piss off, you rude newbie") GP:  "I noticed there seems to be a high level of non-fishing threads. Is this normal?" (Likely answer:  "<G  Yep.  If friends might discuss it while going to fish, fishing, after fishing, or going home from fishing, it will likely get discussed on ROFF.  And it will almost certainly stay that way.") 3.  NEVER be afraid to ask a question, considering the above and below. BP:  "I saw a great pattern for my water in a shop 500 miles away, but I was too cheap to spend 1.00 on it.  It was called a blue or maybe a green something or another.  Can any of you so-called experts tell how to tie it, and NOW, dammit." GP:  "I screwed up.  I saw a pattern that I think would be good on my water, and didn’t buy it.  I fish for xxxxx at xxxxxx, and this fly had, best as I remember, xxxxx body, xxxxx tail, etc.  Does this click with anyone?  Any help appreciated." 4.  This isn’t "the Internet," it is USENET, and, as far as you’re concerned, nobody "runs" it.  Trying to run it by issuing "directives" to ROFFians shows how little you know about it.  Further, while suggestions are generally welcome or at least tolerated, orders, edicts, and commands are generally met with, er, scorn, especially from "WebTV’ers" and unknown "aol’ers." BP:  "You people need to just discuss fly-fishing.  Joe Blow called me a name and I’m reporting him.  What you people need is a moderator, and I am the one you need.  Do it my way, or else." GP:  "I can’t take it, I’m leaving." 5.  If you want to dish it out, be ready to take it, and be careful here.  ROFF is full of smart people with a wide body of knowledge, and you will regret expecting to "win." BP:  "fuk ewe, you stoopid as i knew moore abut fishin whenn i was borned the n youll everr no.  quit tesing me because im a geenis and no it all.  as shakespeer said, i dont wrassel all day on st crispys battlefield, so look out when you mess with me."   GP:  "Your momma wears combat boots…" 6.  Use care with "profanity."  While there are no (well, none identified) swooning maidens with virgin ears who will be shocked, directed profanity will likely not get a good response.  A _suggested_ rule of thumb, if the word "you" is involved, don’t do it… BP:  "Fuck you," "You asshole," "You prick," etc. GP:  "I disagree," "WHAT?!," "You gotta be kidding," A note: I realize this seems to border on "rules", but it just seems to be right.  I can’t explain it, and welcome any comments, but I still offer it as my opinion.  Also, never use the word "retarded" in describing someone or their ideas.  I can promise that will get you enemies you REALLY don’t want.  In fact, I suggest you learn to "set back" any timing adjustments you need to make. 7.  No question, with enough info to answer, and politely asked, is inapproriate. 8.  There are no rules. 9.  Try to use common sense.  We all slip up, but if you have NONE, and can’t rent, borrow, or steal some, ROFF might not be your place. 10.  Yes, it HAS been discussed before, but so what?  There is are sites, Deja News, www.deja.com, amongst others, that archives posts. Sometimes, it may be helpful to turn there first.  This might get you get needed info "right now." 11.  PETA sucks, but if you practice C and R, that will be respected, as long as you respect those who C and E.  IMO, C and K, if all you do is kill, is wrong (unless control is needed for a sound reason), but C and E is just the food chain in action. 12.  The "13th Floor" of ROFF. 13.  IMO, blatant, non-participating SPAMMERS are fair game for what they get, but use care in blasting them, and not offending others. 14.  Dive on in, welcome aboard. HTH? R

Response:

This "guide" is strictly my opinion, and I’m sure comments will be made. As far as I’m concerned, newbies and their appropriate comments are just as welcome as anyone else’s… You are more than welcome on ROFF insofar in that being a "newbie" doesn’t make you unwelcome.  What makes you unwelcome is stepping on your dick as you "walk" in.  I hope this, with additions, serves as a newbie’s guide to ROFF, but it is not a FAQ. 1.  Show some level of brain activity: BAD post:  "I live near water.  What do I need?" Good Post: "I live near the xxxxxx River in xxxxxx, xx.  It contains xxxxxxx.  I’d like to spend around xxx.xx.  Any suggestions?"  If you intend on staying awhile, give a short bio, perhaps.  You don’t have to tell the world intimate details, but the basics are nice. 2.  Show a high level of good manners: BP:  "You morons need to just discuss fishing, dammit" (Likely answer: "Piss off, you rude newbie") GP:  "I noticed there seems to be a high level of non-fishing threads. Is this normal?" (Likely answer:  "<G  Yep.  If friends might discuss it while going to fish, fishing, after fishing, or going home from fishing, it will likely get discussed on ROFF.  And it will almost certainly stay that way.") 3.  NEVER be afraid to ask a question, considering the above and below. BP:  "I saw a great pattern for my water in a shop 500 miles away, but I was too cheap to spend 1.00 on it.  It was called a blue or maybe a green something or another.  Can any of you so-called experts tell how to tie it, and NOW, dammit." GP:  "I screwed up.  I saw a pattern that I think would be good on my water, and didn’t buy it.  I fish for xxxxx at xxxxxx, and this fly had, best as I remember, xxxxx body, xxxxx tail, etc.  Does this click with anyone?  Any help appreciated." 4.  This isn’t "the Internet," it is USENET, and, as far as you’re concerned, nobody "runs" it.  Trying to run it by issuing "directives" to ROFFians shows how little you know about it.  Further, while suggestions are generally welcome or at least tolerated, orders, edicts, and commands are generally met with, er, scorn, especially from "WebTV’ers" and unknown "aol’ers." BP:  "You people need to just discuss fly-fishing.  Joe Blow called me a name and I’m reporting him.  What you people need is a moderator, and I am the one you need.  Do it my way, or else." GP:  "I can’t take it, I’m leaving." 5.  If you want to dish it out, be ready to take it, and be careful here.  ROFF is full of smart people with a wide body of knowledge, and you will regret expecting to "win." BP:  "fuk ewe, you stoopid as i knew moore abut fishin whenn i was borned the n youll everr no.  quit tesing me because im a geenis and no it all.  as shakespeer said, i dont wrassel all day on st crispys battlefield, so look out when you mess with me."   GP:  "Your momma wears combat boots…" 6.  Use care with "profanity."  While there are no (well, none identified) swooning maidens with virgin ears who will be shocked, directed profanity will likely not get a good response.  A _suggested_ rule of thumb, if the word "you" is involved, don’t do it… BP:  "Fuck you," "You asshole," "You prick," etc. GP:  "I disagree," "WHAT?!," "You gotta be kidding," A note: I realize this seems to border on "rules", but it just seems to be right.  I can’t explain it, and welcome any comments, but I still offer it as my opinion.  Also, never use the word "retarded" in describing someone or their ideas.  I can promise that will get you enemies you REALLY don’t want.  In fact, I suggest you learn to "set back" any timing adjustments you need to make. 7.  No question, with enough info to answer, and politely asked, is inapproriate. 8.  There are no rules. 9.  Try to use common sense.  We all slip up, but if you have NONE, and can’t rent, borrow, or steal some, ROFF might not be your place. 10.  Yes, it HAS been discussed before, but so what?  There is are sites, Deja News, www.deja.com, amongst others, that archives posts. Sometimes, it may be helpful to turn there first.  This might get you get needed info "right now." 11.  PETA sucks, but if you practice C and R, that will be respected, as long as you respect those who C and E.  IMO, C and K, if all you do is kill, is wrong (unless control is needed for a sound reason), but C and E is just the food chain in action. 12.  The "13th Floor" of ROFF. 13.  IMO, blatant, non-participating SPAMMERS are fair game for what they get, but use care in blasting them, and not offending others. 14.  Dive on in, welcome aboard. HTH? R

Response:

Question:

George – Can I have some of what your drinking? It’s gotta be good stuff! Nice prose there Georgie… Greg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I began this journey on a dare.  I don’t even remember who it was.   It was one of you, even two or three, yet, here I am, wondering why I’m here? The fly rod is but a stick.  It is a reaching prest toward trout. Something to dab with, as in days of yore.  The lure of water, fins, and things that fall into water are what closes the chain that draws such as you   and I to feeding fish? We are men of water. I have mused much in my lifetime of how fishing began with sticks.  I have thought of the first hook and I’m sure, in my mind, it has always been hidden in the crotch of a sapling.  A simple affair of early man looking ‘down’ into clear water at big fish, stationary and finning, holding – waiting for food to come their way.  Food, the number one driving force of this planet.  Food, the mother of imagination.  Food, the mistress of fly fishing.  In all time, it only needed a student, willing to learn. I can see myself in another life, ugly, naked, hungry,  looking at such fish.  How it came to be that ‘the light of imagination,’ would turn the sapling, I may have been holding onto, so I could peer out and down a little better, sparked the logic of stripping it of all the limbs except one lower one, branch stub ‘up’ for a snare, to be able to reach down, slowly, moving the stick under such a wild creature and with all the quickness and might I could muster, lift it quickly, impelling and catching it fresh and easy . . . surely was a feat that had to be repeated again and again over the entire history of mankind.  Repeated by others of our reincarnated pasts? Today, I have built a bamboo fly rod plant.  A great river flows in front.  I am torn between its lure and the wand one must have in hand to conquer it.  A line of Osage orange trees line the other side of the road and a few yards beyond that, the Snake River slowly begins to fill with spring run off.  I am a trapped man in love with all that is around him.  Wood, freshly sawed with the dust veins, lay in heaps on the floor – sweetly scenting of pine, prints upon the mind.  This is a place children would remember.  Work benches, take form and the whirling sounds of a large table saw, cross saws, drills and electric screwdrivers whine late into the night.  A man’s dream slowly takes shape.  You can see his commitment to the future and of the many men he thinks about as he builds alone, thoughtful, diligent, steadily he holds on to his beliefs and dreams.  He feel very alone many times, late at night. Already, it is 1:26 AM in the morning.  The rod-guide-winding table has been dyed cherry wood and it has been varnished and now a clear finish dries while I write this.  Today, cutting bevels of sixty degrees each arrived for a new tapering machine.  A Beveler for roughing out Bamboo strips has been ordered and is on its way.  A new and second rod winding machine has been set up and the new table will have two of them.  Late this evening I bought the glue that will hold the Bastard Rods together.  Two cases of rod binding string are on its way, enough to wrap several hundred fly rods.  Planers, drill press, a SouthBend Lathe have bee ordered along with a heating oven.  Daily, hour by hour, week by week this is all I think of.  It is all I do.  I am a man of water. My mind sees pictures into the future.  Of men astream, casting.   If I am lucky, they may be casting a bamboo fly rod . . . a tool of our past, welded in spirit by our human history, flowing like the mane of a horse, that once upon a time was our fly lines. I can visualize another one day sitting in this fly rod shop I’m building, musing,  banding guides in colors sublime.  Green or Blue trimmed in Black or Gold, each wrap a binding makes – the man to his client.  One simple wrap, will go astream to secret places I know not of, but in spirit as the reed swishes softly in a early dawn, many miles away, by another.  We are men of water. The simplicity of thread has much beauty as the simplicity of the Chinese Bamboo does.  The simplicity of cork grown in Portugal by peasants who wait 35 years for its first crop, provides ‘feel,’ yet no one has empathy for those that work from hand to mouth for it.  The story of cane comes not without just dues.  How can something so simple be so cost intensive by involving so many lives?  It is just a stick, right?  How can anything like this be complicated? Up the Sui River  Northwest of Canton on a parcel of land of about 48,000 acres is the only place in the world that Angler Bamboo grows. In all the world, in a nation that crawls with more people then a colony of ants, a peasant gleans the mountain side of mature Tonkin.  He will strip it of leaves and he will drag it to the river.  He will bind it into rafts and then ride it over 230 miles down river.  There, the bamboo is scrubbed in wet beach sand to get rid of white fungus growth and it is stacked in tall bundles, left in the sun for weeks to dry and slowly cure.  Many hands have already handled the pole and so, it is taken to a warehouse where it is heated over charcoal and a bend is straightened out.  Soon, it is culled and cut and shipped to the United States.  Some of it cures now in a loft in my new shop.  That this one pole for a fly rod has traveled nearly 10,000 miles to be here, few of us care not.  It is so simple in form.  So naive in purpose, as to boggle the mind.  It’s destiny is held in my hands, and in that, magic is possible.  Isn’t it said that anything is possible for those who dream? "There’s a Wood Duck Decoy in that there hunk of wood if you know how to carve him out of it." Making a fly rod is a contemplative man’s sport as is the art of fly fishing.  If it isn’t an art form, then it should be.  Only a mindless boar doesn’t appreciate his own past. So it is, I see in the near future – a simple pole being split into eighteen strips, and each designed in a specific place in a fly rod for someone . . . many miles away.  Six sides and two tips filled with glues, varnishes, hardwood inserts, guides for sliding graceful fly lines and for a fly, a man, a trout, and a season.  For a man of water. I am humbled to be just a little part of it.  There is much to think about yet.  I am close to beginning the journey of building.  God help me. —

Question:

I need to buy some new DT, #6 fly line to replace my old, green double taper.  There are so many different colors available now:  fluorescent orange or mint green, Hi-Vis Chartreuse, moon glo, etc.  Any pros or cons on the high visibility lines?  I like the idea and am kind of partial to the fluorescent orange but I’m not sure how the fish feel about it.   Please respond by e-mail as well as to the group as my news server is not reliable. Thanks, — To reply, remove one "bs" from E-mail address

Response:

A fish looking up at a floating fly line will see it as a black outline against the sky regardless of what colour it is. Buy the colour that you will be able to see best in your fishing environment. I suspect you will now be inundated with people telling you otherwise, such is life! — Regards Peter (Remove "nospam"to email)

:I need to buy some new DT, #6 fly line to replace my old, green double :taper.  There are so many different colors available now:  fluorescent range or mint green, Hi-Vis Chartreuse, moon glo, etc.  Any pros or cons n the high visibility lines?  I like the idea and am kind of partial to :the fluorescent orange but I’m not sure how the fish feel about it. :  Please respond by e-mail as well as to the group as my news server is :not reliable. : :Thanks, : :– :To reply, remove one "bs" from E-mail address

Response:

I would have to agree with the other post.  If the flyline is close enough to get noticed by the fish you’ve got problems no matter what color it is. Good Fishing C. Segina

Response:

Another trick I’ve employed (I think) successfully is to "camoflage" the last 20 feet of fly line by marking it up with olive and brown Prismatic waterproof markers. Not only does this eliminate (or at least reduce) the appearance of a solid line in the water, the tiger-stripe type markings let you gauge very accurate which part of the line is drifting faster or slower to help you make appropriate mends and achieve longer draft-diminished drifts. Dave McCarty

Response:

Peter,   Thanks for the response.  I didn’t suppose that color of the line must make much difference or they wouldn’t offer so many color combinations.  It’s kind of funny that most fly tying instructions seem very specific about certain materials and colors and   if you don’t use the proper combination you won’t catch fish but you can plop  any color fly line on the water and it will be OK.  I guess the leader puts enough distance between fly and line so that the line is not noticed.   It seems like the bright orange line would be like a giant strike indicator and would come in handy for fishing nymphs. Thanks, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A fish looking up at a floating fly line will see it as a black outline against the sky regardless of what colour it is. Buy the colour that you will be able to see best in your fishing environment. I suspect you will now be inundated with people telling you otherwise, such is life! — Regards Peter

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter,   Thanks for the response.  I didn’t suppose that color of the line must make much difference or they wouldn’t offer so many color combinations.  It’s kind of funny that most fly tying instructions seem very specific about certain materials and colors and if you don’t use the proper combination you won’t catch fish but you can plop  any color fly line on the water and it will be OK.  I guess the leader puts enough distance between fly and line so that the line is not noticed.   It seems like the bright orange line would be like a giant strike indicator and would come in handy for fishing nymphs. Thanks, A fish looking up at a floating fly line will see it as a black outline against the sky regardless of what colour it is. Buy the colour that you will be able to see best in your fishing environment. I suspect you will now be inundated with people telling you otherwise, such is life! — Regards Peter

      It do, It do. So must be highly visible to the fisherman.                                                          John Popp                                                       in Sanford Fl.

Response:

I have flyfished nearly daily (at least 6 months of the year) for the past 7 years or so, and part time for most of the last 30+ years. During that time I have worn out at least one line per season. I have tried many colors during that time, and experience tells me that color does make a difference. Two years ago, a hunting friend related to me how his bowhunting had improved dramatically after using special treatments to kill the Ultra Violet rays in his hunting clothes (both regular camo and hunter orange) claiming that game animals, many birds, and some fish react badly to clothing reflecting these light spectrums. Without getting too technical, their eyes have adopted and evolved over time to work in the very low light conditions of dawn and dusk when UV light is about all of the spectrum still present. Studies in the last 3 or 4 years have pretty well documented that these portions of the spectrum are far more visable to many other creatures than they are to humans. I read a good deal about it, and gave it a skeptical try. I was shocked to see my good camo glowing like crazy under a blacklight test. On the other hand, my Filson bright red & black checkered wool double mack cruiser(worn for about 100 years by some of the best guides in the world) was practically invisible. I learned that I could not guess before turning out the lights, which fabrics would glare bright purple(to me..) and which turned from colorful to dead black(no reflection). After spraying my clothes and a repeat of the tests under blacklight, the difference was astounding. But flick the light back on, and they look the same as they always have! The product I used is called U.V. Blocker. It’s made by the Atsko Company (Snow Seal, etc.) and they put out an excellent publication regarding this subject that is provided free with their Sport Wash/UV Blocker combo package (about $11 for both products and the book). They may even have a web site as it is a large company. I haven’t tried the UV blocker on my fly line, but I am tempted! Anyway, the increase in my hunting success was trmendous, and I no longer assume animals, birds, or fish see the same colors as we do. I now stay away from anything that flouresces under a black light. Unbeknowst to me, my forest color untreated camo was as visible to the game animals as a ripe tomatoe is to you on a bright green bush, especially at the most important hunting times of dawn and dusk. As a bow and rifle hunter for almost three months of the year, my field tests are not very scientific, but they are numerous, and I can assure you that there is a difference. The discoveries being made in these areas are still in their infancy. My vote would be to take a chance with the bright line if you are new to the sport and need the brightly colored line to aid in watching your backcast, mending, or detecting strikes. Otherwise, go as far away from the UV colors as you can get. Oddly enough, manufacturers of hunting camo for the most part still intentionally add UV brighteners to their fabrics even though they are aware (or should be)of the detrimental effect they have on game. Their product does appear slightly "brighter" to the human eye on the store shelf and I suppose they are more interested in selling it to you than in your success afterwards. It is possible that line manufacturers know the same thing. That bright orange sure looks better in the box than what I have on MY reel. Trust your initial observations regarding fly color being important… And yes, I am fully aware that people I respect and admire will disagree. All I can tell you about that is that I catch more trout than they do The Tortoise   Thanks for the response.  I didn’t suppose that color of the line must make much difference or they wouldn’t offer so many color combinations.  It’s kind of funny that most fly tying instructions seem very specific about certain materials and colors and if you don’t use the proper combination you won’t catch fish but you can plop  any color fly line on the water and it will be OK.

Response:

– Regards Peter (Please also reply by email, my server "loses" posts. Remove nospam to email) 9:10:28 PM     Friday, April 24, 1998 I am a big fan of grey lines.  Not very good for photographs, awesome for fishing!

 Presumeably then the new breed of clear fly lines are going to put all the others out of business? I don’t doubt that grey/clear lines have their uses, as you say, in clear shallow water, but certainly for most of the fishing we do in the UK, no difference for the reasons I have already mentioned. That is a great topic!  Awesome, this is what the news groups are for,

I agree! learning.  The cat that said fly line color doesn’t matter is probably fooling himself.

No, see previous comments. I actually use an Airflo 7000 Glass which is almost translucent pale blue and generally fish a 18-20 ft leader. Why then am I sometimes outfished by people with bright orange hi viz lines? Probably because they can see delicate takes that I am missing. Very difficult to see gentle takes at 25 yards + with a pale line in ripple. The fly color, shot color and fly line along with the flash of a bright object over head of the fish all come to play while fly fishing.  Thanks for the tip on the camo, I plan to invest in some better fishing clothes, nee on the bright stuff I always say.  Stealthy presentation! So, I make a Internet magazine about small stream fly fishing.

Perfect conditions for light/clear lines.  I invite – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -anyone to make a article about this topic, I will post the article.  I am sure that there will be a tremendous debate over it… Thanks all, adam Small Stream Fly Fishing http://www.smallstreams.com

Response:

Bob When you use a fly, it is generally IN the water with the trout which do have colour vision. Even dry flies need to be at least an approximation of the natural as they are open to very close inspection by the fish as you will know if you have watched them swim up and then swim away like I have!! Fly line on the other hand, is only seen in silhouette and not closely inspected, so no problem. — Regards Peter (Please also reply by email, my server "loses" posts. Remove nospam to email) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter,  Thanks for the response.  I didn’t suppose that color of the line must make much difference or they wouldn’t offer so many color combinations.  It’s kind of funny that most fly tying instructions seem very specific about certain materials and colors and if you don’t use the proper combination you won’t catch fish but you can plop  any color fly line on the water and it will be OK.  I guess the leader puts enough

Response:

9:10:28 PM     Friday, April 24, 1998 I am a big fan of grey lines.  Not very good for photographs, awesome for fishing!   Lee’s Ferry, a tailwater in North Central Arizona is my test bed.  My fishing partner, new to Lee’s Ferry brought his BRIGHT HI VIS ORANGE fly line.  While dead drifting nymphs on a 9 foot leader in gin clear water, he just could not seem to catch trout.  I thought it was his technique.  I am catching fish left right and center, my buddy, zip.  He gets a big tangle in his leader, and starts cursing because he doesn’t have another one (second mistake).  I give him my rig to fish while I rig a new leader for him. First cast with my rig, he is into a big rainbow (grey line).  We laugh, so with his rig ready (ORANGE fly line) I start to fish it.  Nothing, not one fish!  He is now catching fish with my rig and I have the same leader and shot/fly combo and I am not catching with the ORANGE fly line. I agree with the fellow about the UV spectrum.  My favorite fishing times are in low light conditions, seems the fishing is better then, and that is the nature of things, UV spectrum development. That is a great topic!  Awesome, this is what the news groups are for, learning.  The cat that said fly line color doesn’t matter is probably fooling himself.  The fly color, shot color and fly line along with the flash of a bright object over head of the fish all come to play while fly fishing.  Thanks for the tip on the camo, I plan to invest in some better fishing clothes, nee on the bright stuff I always say.  Stealthy presentation! So, I make a Internet magazine about small stream fly fishing.  I invite anyone to make a article about this topic, I will post the article.  I am sure that there will be a tremendous debate over it… Thanks all, adam Small Stream Fly Fishing http://www.smallstreams.com

Response:

Question:

Reed (yes, I work for 5.10)

Hey, give it a rest reed.  5.10 is just another 85 buck a pair bunch of low volume bullshit.  Feed a kid in Guetemala for 2 years or help save the Blackfoot with your money.  Wear a worn out pair of keds.  Tell it to rec.boats.consume     — TJS Spokane, WA

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Looking through the threads it seems lots of people are seeking an excellent kayak shoe.  Gary Mekan in Salt Lake City has just the ticket, a neoprene upper based on a climbing shoe design. It provides a tight-to-your- foot fit for the close tolerances of a kayak, and excellent foot protection and support for scouting missions.  In an early prototype he even stiffened up the midsole for me so I could use it as a rafting shoe.  Truely excellent.  Worth the $$. Kayak scouting missions would be less demanding than canoe portages. Any idea how they would perform on a portage — especially a long, rocky, hilly one? — JB

Just got a peek at the new Salomon water shoe (ok,so it was a rep’s catalogue and not the real thing..) called the Exhydra or something like that.It looked pretty good.Colors to match your boat and it looked like a cross between an approach shoe and a jogger,kinda.Mesh and neoprene and a decent sole for those who need to shlep their boats. FWIW, I bought a pair of the Columbia watershoes for a whitewater trip in Ontario last summer and promptly returned them after the trip.The stitching was poor and blew out the webbing for the laces the first day…then the drainage hole things popped out…you get the picture.Salomon has more experience with feet so they should know what works and they also incorporated feedback from paddlers who tested them.There should be some shoes at Canoe Expo in Pickering,Ont. in March and I’ve been told they’ll probably cost in the neighbourhood of $100 Cdn give or take , and Trailhead will have them. Cheers, Fred

Response:

If you hear, I’d like to know.  I’d love to have personalized paddling shoes.    Sonny Salomon

Response:

Yeah, so where can we get’em and how much are they??

Response:

Yeah, so where can we get’em and how much are they??

A local, independent water sports retailer, Mountain Gear, REI, or Campmor. http://www.campmor.com         "         rei.com I forget Mountain Gear’s page…something with "mgear" in it. My guess in price from low to high: Campmor, REI, Mountain Gear.  And of course, quality usually changes from those places as well.

Response:

Looking through the threads it seems lots of people are seeking an excellent kayak shoe.  Gary Mekan in Salt Lake City has just the ticket, a neoprene upper based on a climbing shoe design. It provides a tight-to-your- foot fit for the close tolerances of a kayak, and excellent foot protection and support for scouting missions.  In an early prototype he even stiffened up the midsole for me so I could use it as a rafting shoe.  Truely excellent.  Worth the $$.

Kayak scouting missions would be less demanding than canoe portages. Any idea how they would perform on a portage — especially a long, rocky, hilly one? — JB

Response:

In about a month, Five Ten will have their new water shoe on the market.  It is designed to be low volume so it will fit into small cockpits, yet have enough support so that you can use it for difficult portages.  Of course, it will have Five Ten’s excellent rubber on the bottom, which you should be familiar with from some of Teva’s and Chaco’s top of the line sandals.  It will retail for $85.  You should be able to check them out at a local paddling shop.  Also check out the NOC and NRS catalogs, as they will both be carrying them. Reed (yes, I work for 5.10)

Response:

In about a month, Five Ten will have their new water shoe on the market.  It is designed to be low volume so it will fit into small cockpits, yet have enough support so that you can use it for difficult portages.  Of course, it will have Five Ten’s excellent rubber on the bottom, which you should be familiar with from some of Teva’s and Chaco’s top of the line sandals.  It will retail for $85.  You should be able to check them out at a local paddling shop.  Also check out the NOC and NRS catalogs, as they will both be carrying them. Reed (yes, I work for 5.10)

  I saw these at the outdoor retailer show last month, and was not impressed.  Yes they’re flexible and low volume to fit in a kayak cockpit, but they look and feel like they have about the same amount of support and sole stiffness as a pair of neoprene booties – maybe enough for a short scout, but certainly not anything I’d want to use on a 1/4 mile portage.  Basically, they’re like a pair of Nike aqua socks with a five-ten rubber sole, and at $85 the price is exorbitant.

Response:

Has anyone seen anything of the paddling footwear that is rumored to be available from Salomon this year?  I checked their web site to no avail. Thanks! Mike

Response:

Looking through the threads it seems lots of people are seeking an excellent kayak shoe.  Gary Mekan in Salt Lake City has just the ticket, a neoprene upper based on a climbing shoe design. It provides a tight-to-your- foot fit for the close tolerances of a kayak, and excellent foot protection and support for scouting missions.  In an early prototype he even stiffened up the midsole for me so I could use it as a rafting shoe.  Truely excellent.  Worth the $$. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On the same vein, a pair of Converse Chucks do a similar job.  Get em a half size large and put on a pair of neo booties/sox over poly-something sox. such a deal! and warm enough for me.  I’ll wear ‘em over my drysuit booties too. More such a deal. Rob — Rob Molyneaux, PA-C I took so many rescue classes, now my wife teases me. remove "nospam" from address to return mail Would be very reluctant to recommend converse-type boots. Tried a pair of old Airwalk canvas "skatin’ shoes" for paddling (soon after they ceased to be cool). Had a big problem that there is a stiff plastic support bit at the heel which really dug in to my ankle when bent appropriately for insertion into my boat. Never tried with the Cons, but would assume that they would have a similar structure. tim

Response:

this re Re: river footwear??: Would be very reluctant to recommend converse-type boots. Tried a pair of old Airwalk canvas "skatin’ shoes" for paddling (soon after they ceased to be cool). Had a big problem that there is a stiff plastic support bit at the heel which really dug in to my ankle when bent appropriately for insertion into my boat. Never tried with the Cons, but would assume that they would have a similar structure.

Vasque (Portege) and 1 other boot manufacturer (can’t remember name) now make shoes soecifically for this use.  I’ve also seen "wet climbing shoes" and can’t imagine anything so described biting a bent ankle. Scott A. Miller Have a new Java product? Annouce it @ www.javalobby.org/javawire Incoming fire has the right of way

Response:

On the same vein, a pair of Converse Chucks do a similar job.  Get em a half size large and put on a pair of neo booties/sox over poly-something sox. such a deal! and warm enough for me.  I’ll wear ‘em over my drysuit booties too. More such a deal. Rob — Rob Molyneaux, PA-C I took so many rescue classes, now my wife teases me. remove "nospam" from address to return mail

Would be very reluctant to recommend converse-type boots. Tried a pair of old Airwalk canvas "skatin’ shoes" for paddling (soon after they ceased to be cool). Had a big problem that there is a stiff plastic support bit at the heel which really dug in to my ankle when bent appropriately for insertion into my boat. Never tried with the Cons, but would assume that they would have a similar structure. tim

Response:

I must have missed/not gotten Joshs original post,  but I’ve been using Teva "sandlehikers".  They are not really sandles as they have a full rand around the foot, and the top is a nylon mesh, with the regular teva like strap.  They drain/dry quickly, are not super heavy, work well in water, and have enough support and sole for portaging.  Much easier than having to change for rough portages.  However, as you can tell I’m a wilderness tripper, have never been in a kayak, so I don’t know what kind of room problem you might have with shoes.   Keep your stick on the ice — and your paddle wet!! Rick – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This subject came up a few months ago and someone suggested going to one of those used sporting goods shops and picking up some wrestling shoes. Well, thats what i did. Got a pair for $7.00. The outsoles are very thin and have great traction and are very flexible. The only thing they lack is the insulative property of a neoprene material. Overall they are the best kayaking footware I’ve had. Also they don’t dry as quickly. : I’m looking to get some decent paddling shoes.  HAs anyone got any : comments about any non-sandal, non-neoprene booties??  I’ve seen ads for : the Patagonia CFS and the water tennie from 5.10 and they look cool, but : will they do the job AND fit inside my Hammer?? : PLease email me any comments, thanks a bunch. : Josh — J West

– CANOE NORTH! Rick Etter http://www.bright.net/~retter Step outside.  The graphics are AMAZING!!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This subject came up a few months ago and someone suggested going to one of those used sporting goods shops and picking up some wrestling shoes. Well, thats what i did. Got a pair for $7.00. The outsoles are very thin and have great traction and are very flexible. The only thing they lack is the insulative property of a neoprene material. Overall they are the best kayaking footware I’ve had. Also they don’t dry as quickly. : I’m looking to get some decent paddling shoes.  HAs anyone got any : comments about any non-sandal, non-neoprene booties??  I’ve seen ads for : the Patagonia CFS and the water tennie from 5.10 and they look cool, but : will they do the job AND fit inside my Hammer?? : PLease email me any comments, thanks a bunch. : Josh — J West

On the same vein, a pair of Converse Chucks do a similar job.  Get em a half size large and put on a pair of neo booties/sox over poly-something sox. such a deal! and warm enough for me.  I’ll wear ‘em over my drysuit booties too. More such a deal. Rob — Rob Molyneaux, PA-C I took so many rescue classes, now my wife teases me. remove "nospam" from address to return mail

Response:

This subject came up a few months ago and someone suggested going to one of those used sporting goods shops and picking up some wrestling shoes. Well, thats what i did. Got a pair for $7.00. The outsoles are very thin and have great traction and are very flexible. The only thing they lack is the insulative property of a neoprene material. Overall they are the best kayaking footware I’ve had. Also they don’t dry as quickly.

: I’m looking to get some decent paddling shoes.  HAs anyone got any : comments about any non-sandal, non-neoprene booties??  I’ve seen ads for : the Patagonia CFS and the water tennie from 5.10 and they look cool, but : will they do the job AND fit inside my Hammer?? : PLease email me any comments, thanks a bunch. : Josh — J West

Response:

Akona makes a wrestling type of shoe for watersports.  My friend has a pair, and loves them.  I got him some 5-10 rubber climbing shoe resoling kits, and now he has super sticky soles, super light shoes to fit in his Kinetic.

I just got the new NRS catalog over the weekend and they have a new 5.10 Water Tennie that looks pretty good.  I’ve got a pair of their felt soled "kickers" that I really like.  They hold wll on slippery rocks and I use them for when I’m flyfishing and wet wading. John Fereira

Response:

Akona makes a wrestling type of shoe for watersports.  My friend has a pair, and loves them.  I got him some 5-10 rubber climbing shoe resoling kits, and now he has super sticky soles, super light shoes to fit in his Kinetic.

Response:

I find that a cheap pair of Asics wrestling shoes work the best out of anything.  They have the lowest bulk and the best grip.  Drainage can get annoying but I just cut some holes in them.   justmy .02 cents Matt Matt Young

Response:

I’m looking to get some decent paddling shoes.  HAs anyone got any comments about any non-sandal, non-neoprene booties??  I’ve seen ads for the Patagonia CFS and the water tennie from 5.10 and they look cool, but will they do the job AND fit inside my Hammer?? PLease email me any comments, thanks a bunch. Josh

Response:

I like Pataguchi, but I have to say the CFS shoes suck.  My $20 booties grip better than the super hype CFS rubber.  Gave up on mine.

Response:

I like Pataguchi, but I have to say the CFS shoes suck.  My $20 booties grip better than the super hype CFS rubber.  Gave up on mine.

I stick with my 10$ (sale) thick soled linnen schoes. They are the model that has these army-type thick soles, sturdy multi-layer linnen top and laces. The rubber of the soles is also used to create a protective layer over the toe-section. They float, are cheap, very strong and after a year the only wear I can spot is where the side of the shoe has been in touch with my boat. If they get damaged, I’ll buy a new pair You can get them everywhere around here, seems like some fashion thing. I is a bit hard to get sizes over 45 (is that 11 US?) though. Bye, — Sociology Student  at the Tilburg University,  The Netherlands Whitewater Kayaker                         AD&D Dungeon Master Secretary  of  the  Eindhoven  Canoe Club  "De Genneper Molen"   No man is wise enough, nor good enough                                      to be trusted with unlimited power.                                       Charles Colton P.S. Spammers, be informed of the installment of a spam-filter on my account.   It functions in the same way insect repellent does: It makes sure that vermin like you can’t reach me.

Response:

I’m looking to get some decent paddling shoes.  HAs anyone got any comments about any non-sandal, non-neoprene booties??  I’ve seen ads for the Patagonia CFS and the water tennie from 5.10 and they look cool, but will they do the job AND fit inside my Hammer??

I use some Teva Wet Climbers.  They are a tennis shoe, with drain holes, and rubber soul which reach up an inch high.  So if water goes over that inch height, your foot gets wet, yet the water will drain, and the materials dry quicker than most shoes.  There is little, if any, padding so they are not the best for wearing several days.  The bottom of the soul is nearly flat with just a bit of tread, and it’s hard to get them to slip when wet.

Response:

Question:

James

Response:

Can anyone tell me where I can find salmon fly patterns on the net. I am looking for patterns from Iceland. I have tried two patterns and the colour in them is great, have had great luck with the patterns and would like to get more. Thank you.

Response:

Can anyone tell me where I can find salmon fly patterns on the net. I am looking for patterns from Iceland. I have tried two patterns and the colour in them is great, have had great luck with the patterns and would like to get more. Thank you.

Just curious.  Do you fish these patterns the Icelandic way with the 14′ long rods?  If so, what do you think of that particular style of fishing? Mike

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Question:

I will be in the Utica NY area later this week and was wondering if anyone had any info on the local streams.  My time is limited while I’m there so I’m looking for easy stream access and decent fishing in a single area.  Thanks for the help. Trip — 14 Mamaroneck Ave                                phone: 914/948-6200 x7515 White Plains, NY 10601                           fax:   914/948-6270

Response:

Richard, without a doubt you will want to make a visit to the West Canada about 30 min from Utica. Rte.12 north to the Rte.8 (Poland) exit to Rte. 28, make a left on Rte.28. Go a few miles to a parking area on the right. Fish up or downstream of the bridge. Although most major hatches are over you may encounter sporadic cream variant (prior to dark) and definitely caddis (#14 tan, #18 black). There are always plenty of caddis and plenty of fish (browns). Water conditions have been excellent. Good luck and let me know how you make out.

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The West Canda Creek, 15 minutes north of Utica is a blue-ribbon trout stream with a section of "artificials-only". Its a fabulous trout stream, as good as anything isn the east, but not well known outside of the Utica area. I learned to fish on the WCC when I was about 8(40 yrs ago) and spent many a summer day there with my grandfather. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly I will be in the Utica NY area later this week and was wondering if anyone had any info on the local streams.  My time is limited while I’m there so I’m looking for easy stream access and decent fishing in a single area.  Thanks for the help. Trip — **** System Management ARTS                               email:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -14 Mamaroneck Ave                            phone: 914/948-6200 x7515 White Plains, NY 10601                               fax:   914/948-6270

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I am posting to my newsgroups and all newsgroups related to Women Outdoors. 17th Annual Women Outdoors National Gathering       Join other women  for 3 days of fun in the outdoors in

Beautuful Peterbrough, New Hampshire, 12 miles directly north of Mass. Memorial Day Weekend, May 24-27th, l996 Keynote Speaker: Amy Baltzell, rowing Olympian, crew member of America’s Cup Racing Team Workshops: High ropes adventure course, sunrise and sunset birdwalks, Rockclimbing,Kayaks, Canoes, Hiking Mt Monadnock, tallest peak

in southern NH, biking, entertainment, great food(with  non-vegetarian  and vegetarian entrees) relaxation,fun,friends and ….. Over 700 acres of forest,lakes, streams. Lodging Options: cabin, dormitory, tent sites Mothers bring children, boys  under 8 years of age and girls $55-$78 for children 3-12 Women $88-$155 Hello. I have attended these Gathering for many years.We have

 over 475 members for over 25 states. We meet and share and  learn outdoor skills. All abilities welcome. Some of the past workshops were carcamping, tree identification,

 compass reading, 12 Steps program, Vegetable juice diet,  Women Outdoor Euipment review with Eastern Mountain Sport,  Through-Hiking on Appalchian Trail and Pacific Crest Trail,  North African Dance, Scrabble board game, Pictionary, 2-Step Dance. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Email for more information Elizabeth Wong Miller                                                         01201 PS we have a rep from Orvis fly fishing school.

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PS we have a rep from Orvis fly fishing school.

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PS we have a rep from Orvis fly fishing school.

Where is it? — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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The question is do they know how to catch fish?

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Hello, here are some posts I have sent to others. Hope you find the useful!  Alan Barrow  km4ba         | If a little knowledge….. Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing Some friends and I, serious fly fisherman all, are thinking about going to the Florida Keys to do some bonefishing (and maybe tarpon, permit, etc.)  this winter.  Never having done this before, I have scads of questions: * Is end of December/beginning of January a good time?

Bones are there year round. They will not come up onto the flats if the water temp is too cold. Also wind is more likely, and impacts the number of "fishable" (sight fishing) days. However, the largest bonefish are usually caught in winter. I have hooked (not landed) very big bonefish during XMAS trips last year. Tarpon migrate, and are not in the Keys in large quantities until May/June. There are year round Tarpon spots in the Keys ( and Miami) but it is usually deep water. (Bridges/channels, etc) I consider June/July the best time all around for fishing in the Keys. I still fish year all seasons, because even "off season" the fishing is better than most places I know. But for fly fisherman, winter may be less desirable. Redfish are available year round, as are sharks and barracudas. Many fly types are sight fishing for big ‘Cudas during winter when it the flats are too cold for bonefish. * Where are the good spots in the keys?  Should we try Grand Bahama or  Belize instead?

My conclusion is that if you want numbers and lot’s of action, hit the bahamas, Christmas Island (near Hawaii), or costa rica. However, If you want big fish on a regular basis, Miami down to Marathon for bonefish is hard to beat. For Tarpon, Boca Grande pass in June is fantastic. Not the same as sight fishing the flats edges for tarpon in the Keys, but killer in a different fashion. Tarpon are all around florida mid year, so there are many good places for them. The keys are ideal due to: Big Bonefish, good tarpon, great Permit, OK redfish, great trout, great dolphin close in (the fish). The water is great for sight fishing in the Keys. Other parts of Fla are less "clear". The Bahamas are tough to beat in water clarity. * Know any good guides/outfitters?

I have not used a guide for 3 years, but recommend using one until you become proficient in finding fish yourself. Even then, guides will put you onto more fish. * Will I need my own equipment or can I rent?

I have not seen much rental equipment. If you have a guide, he will provide top notch equipment. I hope you have a good time!  Alan Barrow  km4ba         | If a little knowledge…..  ..!gatech!kd4nc!km4ba!alan |       then what is the Anti-Dote??? Return-Path: jab Path: hpuerca!jab Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing Distribution: na I will be on Islamorada from February 10-17 of this year.  I plan to do some inshore fishing, and am wondering if this is a particularly "hot" time for specific fish. Can anyone give me some help? I’ll be

Entirely dependant on water temperature. (Wind may also be an issue) Some of the largest bonefish are caught in "winter" (dec-feb). You may also go all day without seeing a fish on a flat. A guide is a big win here. They may know when/where fish may make an appearence. We have found that "normal" behavior does not apply. (normal for bonefish is: fish move on flat with low incoming tide.) Problem is that with colder water temp, at may be midday before the water warms up enough. Thus traditional early morning/late evening "best times" may not apply. Barracuda are found (and fished for) on the flats in the winter. Any other time, these guys are almost impossible to catch. (Except when a big bonefish is about to nail your shrimp/lure) Also sharks on the flats can be fun. Tarpon are pretty much somewhere else, except for a few "bridge" types that hang around year round. Redfish and trout in the backcountry (Fla Bay, as opposed to the Atlantic) should also be a good option. (Not as exciting as bonefish, but still pretty good) I believe offshore is pretty good this time of year. (Sailfish, grouper, Kings, snapper, etc) out for a full day, and would like to spend about half the day fishing purely for sport (i.e. tarpon, bonefish, maybe permit) and half the day fishing for something I can cook up afterwards. Is this possible?

Bonefish or permit then hit backcountry for redfish or trout. I have limited out on big trout within 30 min skiff ride from Islamorada. (By the way, you will be "in" Islamorada, the city. You will be "on" upper or lower matacumbe. Just a "nit" :- ) Any suggestions would be appreciated. I’d like to call up and reserve a guide ahead of time.

We had good luck with Jamie Brodie, who booked out of Holiday Isle. I could get other names from Fla Sportsman if needed. Secondly, since I can’t afford a guide every day I’m there, but would like to do some fishing most of the days I’m there, I’m wondering if anyone can give me advice about wading/shore fishing. I’ll cast for

This is how we got started. Harry Harris park up in key largo (20 min N of Islamorada) is a good flat to wade for bonefish. Also flats off the bridges at shell and indian key ( Just S of Islamorada. ) are good. If you see brown bottom that you can get too from your hotel, etc. I would give it a try. Wear tennis shoes, or booties. (I use "aquasox" as well) Be aware of stingrays. (Some say to shuffle. I do if I cannot see the bottom very clearly. I have found if the bottom is hard enough to wade, the stingrays do not bury themselves. They are also very spooky, and will avoid you.) Also bridge fishing all along that area is good. You can also rent a boat. (not cheap, but cheaper than a guide.) Plan on using it mainly to get too flats. Do not try to take it on the flats, as you will get stuck unless it is very high tide. You will not have a pole anyway. Even with our flat’s boats, we wade alot. (during low tide) anything, I just don’t know what’s there to cast to, or what to cast to whatever is there (to state a simple point in a fairly unruly way).

On the flats you will see:         stingrays- do not try to catch them. Look for bonefish/jack         following them. try to cast on the back of any stingray you see.         Many times you will not see the fish following them. Best sign         that bonefish are on the flats. Stingrays are your friend.         Bonefish- swim most in straight lines. best case is to find them         tailing in low water. (why wading is good). You may see one or a         dozen. Very spooky. Cast in front of them, let them swim up on         your lure/bait.         Permit- The most spooky. look for "sickle" fin sticking out of         water.         Baracuda- usually loitering around. Moving very slowly, then         disappears faster than your eye can follow. If you see a fish,         and it does not move 5-10 feet in a few seconds, then it is probably         a barracuda. cast past it 10 feet in front of it. reel as fast         as you can. They strike instinctively.         Jack- Usually you do not see them, but catch them by accident.         can get pretty big, fights almost as good as a bonefish. (Just         missing the 200 yd runs.)         Sharks- 2-5′ nurse, lemon, blacktip, and bonnet sharks. Lots of         fun to catch. Good sign of bonefish on the flats. They will         home in on a shrimp in the water. Plan on a short fight with a         quick release unless you use 2-3" of wire. (The wire does not         appear to bother bonefish. My brother has started rigging this         way all the time, just to sight cast for sharks if the bonefish         are not around)         Snapper- (mangrove and yellowtail) I call the yellowtail         "piranah" snappers, as they will make the water boil if you         throw a shrimp to them. Expert bait stealers, and will not         touch artificials. Usually too small to eat, but fun.         Basket ball sized puffs of mud- Bonefish!!! Usually more than         one. Look for the freshest, and then move 20-40′ ahead.         A line of muddy water- Stingray "mudding". Cast on it’s back.         A big cloud of muddy water- usually a school of bonefish and         jack. Often a stingray is down at the bottom. Cast into the         middle of it. Plan on 20-40′ casts. I use 8# test, 1 or 1/0 O’shaughsany cadmium or nickle hooks. Live shrimp or half dollar sized crabs. (The best) I carry extra shrimp in my pocket while wading. Also can use "skimmer" lead head jigs. Also consider fishing mangrove creeks and banks for snapper, snook (mostly at night), grunt, etc. You can catch "keepers". Grunt are not considered as desirable as snapper, but they are actually pretty good to eat. You will know if you catch a snook. Limited season. I have fun fishing hotel docks with my little boys even. In other words, any advice, as detailed as possible, about shore fishing on Islamorada would be greatly appreciated. I have one 6 1/2′ medium spinning outfit, and one 8′ medium-heavy spinning outfit (reel has 300 yard line capacity for 20′ test).

I would use the 6′6" for flats, and the bigger rod for bridge fishing. Again, 8# quality line is fine for the flats. Fill your reel. (optimum casting) Oil/grease your drag. It has got to be absolutley smooth. Set it for what you think it should be, then back it down to 1/3 of that. (We broke off several bonefish till we learned this.) They will take 100-200 yds of line extremely … read more »

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Hello,       I will be going Florida on April 1st, I would like to know about fishing in and around Ft. Lauderdale and the Keys. My primary interest is light tackle and fly fishing. Any tips on places to fish from shore for bonefish, permit, barracuda, tarpon, and/or any other large gamefish.           Suggestions will be greatly appreciated. This will be my first time down there, so I guess, I am a greenhorn. Tight lines……Fish On! Christopher Toner — –   2nd Shift Operations:RUCS               (908) 932-2293 –   OTS-Hill Center, Busch Campus –   Piscataway, NJ    

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I’d like to apologize to Mark for flaming him.  That was not my intent!  My intent was to poke a little fun at elitist dry fly fishermen who look down on nymphing.  BTW my perferred method of fishing is with a dry fly or emerger, but only when it is effective, most of the time it’s just not as effective as nymphing.  IMO nymphing in many ways is more challenging than dry fly fishing.   For example dead drift is every bit as important to nymphing as with a dry fly presentation but tougher due to the differential current speeds from surface to stream bottom.

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Keywords: I got  e-mail in response to a previous post  and I thought I’d share it with the group. Mark Writes in response to my post below: For nymphs fished dead drift I always use long leaders, indicators and lead. when you say "indicators", are you referring to "bobbers"? i.e. Little things that float around and bounce up and down when a fish bites.                           Mark

Yes Mark that’s exactly what I mean and with no apologies.  Except for sight nymphing where you can see both the fish and the nymph at the same time, its almost impossible to see the take by watching your line (another little thing that floats around and bounces up and down when a fish bites).   Even with an indicator experienced fisheman miss at least 50% of the takes.  This experience comes from years of fishing to sighted fish with partners, where one partner spots for the other.   Frequently, when I’m up on a bank with a good angle, I’ve watched the trout we’re hunting inhale the nymph with no movement in the line leader or indicator.  A nymphing trout’s take is very subtle.  They suck the nymph and almost as quickly blow it back out again if you don’t set the hook. So Mark if you can’t stomache using a bobber or indicator, then just sit back and continue to be   self satisfied catching only the trout dumb enough to hook themselves (Usually the smaller ones who have to dart in from the side.), then by all means continue.   I’ll just have to take my satisfaction from success on the water, knowing deep down inside that somehow I’m just not the fisherman I could be if I could only loose my dependence on those bobbers! Just in case anyone out there thinks I’m serious.  I don’t know a single nymph fisherman, whose opinion I respect, who doesn’t use indicators ( that includes Andre Puyans, Mike Lawson, Lamb, etc.).  I vary the type of indicator to the conditions I’m fishing.   In fast water I use Marks bobbers to set the depth of float as much as anything.  In fast water the line drag usually sets the hook sets the hook before you’ll see the indicator move or pause.  In glass smooth gin clear water I use either a little silicon on the leader or a small tuft of yarn.  But what the heck it’s all bobber fishing right Mark.

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