Question:

I’ve found that if you use too fine a tippet in relation to strength, you’ll get major twisting if there is a hard wind.  

This is one time where a thicker or stiffer tippet would be better. Willi

Response:

I’ve found that if you use too fine a tippet in relation to strength, you’ll get major twisting if there is a hard wind.  It seems to be that even though you’ve increased your tippet strength, you still have to match the tippet to the size fly you are casting.  In essence you still need to match DIAMETER with you fly size.  I’ve seen it alot where people insist on matching the BREAKING STRENGTH to the fly size which results in the aforementioned twisting.

Really?  That’s nutty.  Absolutely – diameter (translating into a certain stiffness and/or a certain mass of line) is what matters because that’s what determines how the fly will be cast and presented. Regards, Jeff

Response:

Increases in tippet strength, IMHO, is the most significant improvement in fly fishing equipment in the last fifty years. When I started fly fishing, a tippet fine enough to use with a size 20 fly had a breaking strength of under a pound.  Tough to land a good fish on a tippet that weak. I’m hard pressed to come up with a situation where a finer tippet of the same strength wouldn’t be superior. Willi

I’ve found that if you use too fine a tippet in relation to strength, you’ll get major twisting if there is a hard wind.  It seems to be that even though you’ve increased your tippet strength, you still have to match the tippet to the size fly you are casting.  In essence you still need to match DIAMETER with you fly size.  I’ve seen it alot where people insist on matching the BREAKING STRENGTH to the fly size which results in the aforementioned twisting. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

Response:

Increases in tippet strength, IMHO, is the most significant improvement in fly fishing equipment in the last fifty years. When I started fly fishing, a tippet fine enough to use with a size 20 fly had a breaking strength of under a pound.  Tough to land a good fish on a tippet that weak. I’m hard pressed to come up with a situation where a finer tippet of the same strength wouldn’t be superior. Willi

Response:

Small diameter is not always desirable.

Why not?  By "small diameter", what we really mean is "small diameter relative to its strength".  So if you want a bigger diameter, you could still use "small diameter for its strength", and then a bigger diameter in that brand, and you’ll have the diameter you want but stronger than the other brand. In my experience, Maxima tippet consistently runs about one mil larger than marked.

More like .002 in my experience! Nevertheless, it is an excellent tippet material because it handles abuse much better than some with better specs.

Orvis Super Strong is damn strong, though.  Or damn thin, depending on how you look at it eh? Regards, Jeff

Response:

Increases in tippet strength, IMHO, is the most significant improvement in fly fishing equipment in the last fifty years. When I started fly fishing, a tippet fine enough to use with a size 20 fly had a breaking strength of under a pound.  Tough to land a good fish on a tippet that weak. I’m hard pressed to come up with a situation where a finer tippet of the same strength wouldn’t be superior. Willi

If it is stiffer it might interfere with fly presentation. Peter G. Aitken

Response:

Hello,    As someone new to the sport I have a question regarding tippet material. Does it have to be a specific material or can you use regular fishing line of the correct diameter? I ask this because I noticed that the line I use on my spinning reel lists a dia. of .010 which is the dia. of the tippet I’m told is the correct for the size flies I will be using. Can I use this line or do I have to use a material specific for tippets?

There is a lot of development of monofilament going on with things like copolymers etc. The main effect is that of getting more breaking strength for the same diameter. In addition, the stiffness and abrasion reisitance and knot strength may be affected. Nevertheless, there is no law to prevent you from using any material you want. Small diameter is not always desirable. In my experience, Maxima tippet tconsistently runs about one mil larger than marked. Even so, the strength for a given marked diameter runs less than on other tippet such as Dai-Riki. Nevertheless, it is an excellent tippet material because it handles abuse much better than some with better specs. Bill

Response:

Leader and tippet material is just the same as ordinary Nylon monofilament fishing line.  Some prefer certain types of Nylon, "soft or hard" for instance which makes the leader/tippet, "stiff or limp".    Basically any fishing line will do however. Many people buy spools of the line they like and make up their own leaders and tippets from it.    If you are just starting out, I would recommend buying knotless tapered leaders from your local tackle shop, and a couple of spools of tippet material ( ordinary line ) in the diameters you require. You can of course learn to tie up your own leaders immediately, it is not hard to do. Have a look at   http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2/ and   http://globalflyfisher.com Both of these sites have good info on  leaders . TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

   As someone new to the sport I have a question regarding tippet material. Does it have to be a specific material or can you use regular fishing line of the correct diameter? I ask this because I noticed that the line I use on my spinning reel lists a dia. of .010 which is the dia. of the tippet I’m told is the correct for the size flies I will be using. Can I use this line or do I have to use a material specific for tippets?

You can use it.  It should just be a good match with the end of the leader you’re using and match your fly.  The stiffnes of the line is also a factor. The only problem is that the diameter listed might not be correct.  Even with "official" tippet material where the diameter is usually more important than the breaking strength, it is often off.  But probably not so much that it will make a huge difference.  .010 is also called 1X, which is a bit on the heavy side for a lot of trout flies – I was wondering what fly you’re using. Regards, Jeff

Response:

Bonjour, You can use regular fishing line of the correct diameter. The most important in leader and tippet is to tye good knots as a bad knot will brake really easily. The most important in Nylon is to avoid using an too old one. Then remember that from a "regular" fishing line to another one you have differences in coating and other chemical treatements wich make a Nylon softer or not from another one. You have to know what you are searching for, considering lenght of your tippet, size of the fly, wet or dry… Philippe Pacific Angling on Line http://fishing.ifrance.com * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, As someone new to the sport I have a question regarding tippet material. Does it have to be a specific material or can you use regular fishing line of the correct diameter? I ask this because I noticed that the line I use on my spinning reel lists a dia. of .010 which is the dia. of the tippet I’m told is the correct for the size flies I will be using. Can I use this line or do I have to use a material specific for tippets? TIA Rich Kent I no expert, but I don’t see any reason not to use it. Hell, if you’ve got a big spool of it, I’d say that’s a really good reason to use it. Welcome to the sport and as a newcomer, stick around this group. There’s info here amongst the BS.

I’ve started making my own leaders this year.  In doing so I have looked at different companies for my leader material.  I have found the diameter and strength not the same with each company.  I’ve then found that most tippet material, though the same diameter as regular monofilament, is much stronger.  With this in mind, I don’t see any reason why you couldn’t use regular monofilament as long as you understand that it might not be as strong as tippet material for the same diameter. — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

Response:

Hello,     As someone new to the sport I have a question regarding tippet material. Does it have to be a specific material or can you use regular fishing line of the correct diameter? I ask this because I noticed that the line I use on my spinning reel lists a dia. of .010 which is the dia. of the tippet I’m told is the correct for the size flies I will be using. Can I use this line or do I have to use a material specific for tippets? TIA Rich Kent

I no expert, but I don’t see any reason not to use it. Hell, if you’ve got a big spool of it, I’d say that’s a really good reason to use it. Welcome to the sport and as a newcomer, stick around this group. There’s info here amongst the BS.

Response:

Hello,     As someone new to the sport I have a question regarding tippet material. Does it have to be a specific material or can you use regular fishing line of the correct diameter? I ask this because I noticed that the line I use on my spinning reel lists a dia. of .010 which is the dia. of the tippet I’m told is the correct for the size flies I will be using. Can I use this line or do I have to use a material specific for tippets? TIA Rich Kent

Response:

Question:

This seems a particularly inauspicious time to post a report about George’s handiwork, but then again when the hell isn’t it.  He will piss off most of ROFF every other post.  Nevertheless, I promised this report and ROFF will get it. The brown truck arrived this afternoon as promised.  This evening, I departed for Spring Creek with  a 4 and 5 wt line as well as a comparison rod.  I am not an expert on cane rods, although I have two which I fish regularly.  One is a 1950’s vintage Orvis with the letter line rating that translates to a 6 wt.  That rod was not unsheathed this evening.  The other is -at least until now – my favorite.  I purchased it at Farlow’s, Pall Mall, London and it is a 7 ft. 4-5 wt. Tony and Mike, among others,  will know of the store.  When I was there (1989) the cane rods were all stowed across the rafters in the ceiling, while the carbon rods were on display along the walls.  I climbed a ladder and picked out several rods, eventually purchasing one without the benefit of casting -which was not possible under the circumstances.  That rod, however, is a magnificent fishing tool. I took the Bastard to Spring Creek fitted out with a four weight line and fished it.  The rod was a superb fishing tool.  At normal fishing distances – for me 30-40 feet – it performed as well as any rod I have fished.  Then, I went up on the bank along the stream for some pure casting comparisons and put the 4 wt. line on the Farlow’s rod. After that, back to the Bastard for more casting.  At normal fishing distances, the Bastard was better.   With a modest double haul I could put out about 50 ft., but that was the absolute limit at my abilities. The Farlow’s rod can get better  distance than that – I punched out 60 ft. this evening.  But to George’s credit the Bastard is lighter and at normal fishing ranges it peforms better than the Farlow’s rod.  Of course, I  understand that Wayne Cattanech (sp?)did not make the comparison rod and I am hardly the equivilent of Steve Rajeff. Nevertheless, the Bastard is a fine product that by my standards is all that I could ask for in a bamboo rod.  The only thing I would change is to use a cigar rather than full wells grip. Thanks George, and the check is in the mail. Mark Faulkner

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This seems a particularly inauspicious time to post a report about George’s handiwork, but then again when the hell isn’t it.  He will piss off most of ROFF every other post.  Nevertheless, I promised this report and ROFF will get it. The brown truck arrived this afternoon as promised.  This evening, I departed for Spring Creek with  a 4 and 5 wt line as well as a comparison rod.  I am not an expert on cane rods, although I have two which I fish regularly.  One is a 1950’s vintage Orvis with the letter line rating that translates to a 6 wt.  That rod was not unsheathed this evening.  The other is -at least until now – my favorite.  I purchased it at Farlow’s, Pall Mall, London and it is a 7 ft. 4-5 wt. Tony and Mike, among others,  will know of the store.  When I was there (1989) the cane rods were all stowed across the rafters in the ceiling, while the carbon rods were on display along the walls.  I climbed a ladder and picked out several rods, eventually purchasing one without the benefit of casting -which was not possible under the circumstances.  That rod, however, is a magnificent fishing tool. I took the Bastard to Spring Creek fitted out with a four weight line and fished it.  The rod was a superb fishing tool.  At normal fishing distances – for me 30-40 feet – it performed as well as any rod I have fished.  Then, I went up on the bank along the stream for some pure casting comparisons and put the 4 wt. line on the Farlow’s rod. After that, back to the Bastard for more casting.  At normal fishing distances, the Bastard was better.   With a modest double haul I could put out about 50 ft., but that was the absolute limit at my abilities. The Farlow’s rod can get better  distance than that – I punched out 60 ft. this evening.  But to George’s credit the Bastard is lighter and at normal fishing ranges it peforms better than the Farlow’s rod.  Of course, I  understand that Wayne Cattanech (sp?)did not make the comparison rod and I am hardly the equivilent of Steve Rajeff. Nevertheless, the Bastard is a fine product that by my standards is all that I could ask for in a bamboo rod.  The only thing I would change is to use a cigar rather than full wells grip. Thanks George, and the check is in the mail. Mark Faulkner

Very nice report Mark. But I gotta know, did ya get skunked? walt — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

Hi Walt,  My brother is looking for a Cortland Fairplay line in WF4F, I didn’t see one listed on your site…do they even make a WF4F?  Come to think of it, all I’ve ever seen in WallyWorld is 5 & 6 wt.  Just curious… Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF  RET.

| | This seems a particularly inauspicious time to post a report about | George’s handiwork, but then again when the hell isn’t it.  He will piss | off most of ROFF every other post.  Nevertheless, I promised this report | and ROFF will get it. | | The brown truck arrived this afternoon as promised.  This evening, I | departed for Spring Creek with  a 4 and 5 wt line as well as a | comparison rod.  I am not an expert on cane rods, although I have two | which I fish regularly.  One is a 1950’s vintage Orvis with the letter | line rating that translates to a 6 wt.  That rod was not unsheathed this | evening.  The other is -at least until now – my favorite.  I purchased | it at Farlow’s, Pall Mall, London and it is a 7 ft. 4-5 wt. Tony and | Mike, among others,  will know of the store.  When I was there (1989) | the cane rods were all stowed across the rafters in the ceiling, while | the carbon rods were on display along the walls.  I climbed a ladder and | picked out several rods, eventually purchasing one without the benefit | of casting -which was not possible under the circumstances.  That rod, | however, is a magnificent fishing tool. | | I took the Bastard to Spring Creek fitted out with a four weight line | and fished it.  The rod was a superb fishing tool.  At normal fishing | distances – for me 30-40 feet – it performed as well as any rod I have | fished.  Then, I went up on the bank along the stream for some pure | casting comparisons and put the 4 wt. line on the Farlow’s rod. After | that, back to the Bastard for more casting.  At normal fishing | distances, the Bastard was better.   With a modest double haul I could | put out about 50 ft., but that was the absolute limit at my abilities. | The Farlow’s rod can get better  distance than that – I punched out 60 | ft. this evening.  But to George’s credit the Bastard is lighter and at | normal fishing ranges it peforms better than the Farlow’s rod.  Of | course, I  understand that Wayne Cattanech (sp?)did not make the | comparison rod and I am hardly the equivilent of Steve Rajeff. | Nevertheless, the Bastard is a fine product that by my standards is all | that I could ask for in a bamboo rod.  The only thing I would change is | to use a cigar rather than full wells grip. | | Thanks George, and the check is in the mail. | | Mark Faulkner | |Very nice report Mark. But I gotta know, did ya get skunked? | |walt | |– |Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com |BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS |P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001 | |

Response:

Same old story as many others really….

(another tale of woe snipped) Joe –  Several years ago I finished fishing Spring Creek at dark, just below Bellefonte, and put my cane rod on the roof of my car while I got out of my waders, had a beer, etc.  As you would suspect, it wasn’t until I heard the rod roll off the roof of the car onto the asphalt that I realized the magnitude of my stupidity. Mark Faulkner

Response:

Very nice report Mark. But I gotta know, did ya get skunked? Yes. MF

Mark is too much the gentleman to say this, but I understand that conditions are abysmal in PA.  Spring Creek has been reduced to a trickle, Penns is a puddle, and Fishing hardly flows.  Under such conditions not even the vaunted George could tease up a fish. Peter P.S.  We’ll have to have ourselves a little cane shootout once life gets breathed back into that little creek.

Response:

Joe –  Several years ago I finished fishing

Spring Creek at dark, just below Bellefonte, and put my cane rod on the roof of

my car while I got out of my waders, had a beer, etc.  As you would suspect,

it wasn’t until I heard the rod roll off the roof of the car onto the asphalt

that I realized the magnitude of my stupidity. Mark Faulkner

Mark; The three basic rules of fishing cane rods are: when you are thru fishing, 1-take care of the rod! 2-take care of the rod! 3-take care of the rod! follow all three steps BEFORE moving on to removing waders, drinking beer,etc. and your rods will last much longer John Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Joe and Jon – Bellefonte is still a nice little town, that has the additional advantage of a first class trout stream running right through it.  The story of the six weight deserves to be told. Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mark: I’ve got an uncle in Bellfonte (sp?), and family (with land and creeks) in Brookville. I grew up catching brookies there. Nice area, Ditto that.   I used to go there on business and knock off early to fish Spring Creek.   Bellefonte is a pretty little town (I thought).   Despite driving my car over my 6 wt. there, I’ve always wanted to come back. Joe F.

Response:

Joe and Jon – Bellefonte is still a nice little town, that has the additional advantage of a first class trout stream running right through it.  The story of the six weight deserves to be told.

Same old story as many others really.   I was downstream from Bellefonte toward Fisherman’s Paradise trying to squeeze in just a few more casts before having to be somewhere else.   I came out of the stream and began packing up in a hurry.   Waders off, shoes on, vest off, etc.   For some reason I was distracted enough to leave my rod leaning against the passenger side of the car when I backed up to leave.   I heard the rod scrape against the side as it fell and realized what I’d done, but too late.   From the position of the rod, I certainly had run over the tip. Surprisingly, it looked undamaged except for a slightly bent guide, so I put it back in the sock and tube and went on my way.   It wasn’t until weeks later getting ready to fish the Tulpehocken that I thought to check it out before I hiked down to the stream in my waders.   I tried a quick cast on the parking area and; well, lets just say the rod was a bit less stiff than I liked. Joe F.

Response:

Very nice report Mark. But I gotta know, did ya get skunked?

Yes. MF

Response:

Mark: I’ve got an uncle in Bellfonte (sp?), and family (with land and creeks) in Brookville. I grew up catching brookies there. Nice area,

Ditto that.   I used to go there on business and knock off early to fish Spring Creek.   Bellefonte is a pretty little town (I thought).   Despite driving my car over my 6 wt. there, I’ve always wanted to come back. Joe F.

Response:

Hi Frank, The Fairplay line isn’t manufactured in a 4wt., 5wt being the smallest. It is a good line for the money….I have one loaded on a Danica Large Arbor reel and it performs quite nicely. There is a 4wt 333HT but it costs more. However, all the 333 lines are on sale everyday at ez…. –Walt, puttin the lid back on the can. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Walt,  My brother is looking for a Cortland Fairplay line in WF4F, I didn’t see one listed on your site…do they even make a WF4F?  Come to think of it, all I’ve ever seen in WallyWorld is 5 & 6 wt.  Just curious… Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF  RET. | | This seems a particularly inauspicious time to post a report about | George’s handiwork, but then again when the hell isn’t it.  He will piss | off most of ROFF every other post.  Nevertheless, I promised this report | and ROFF will get it. | | The brown truck arrived this afternoon as promised.  This evening, I | departed for Spring Creek with  a 4 and 5 wt line as well as a | comparison rod.  I am not an expert on cane rods, although I have two | which I fish regularly.  One is a 1950’s vintage Orvis with the letter | line rating that translates to a 6 wt.  That rod was not unsheathed this | evening.  The other is -at least until now – my favorite.  I purchased | it at Farlow’s, Pall Mall, London and it is a 7 ft. 4-5 wt. Tony and | Mike, among others,  will know of the store.  When I was there (1989) | the cane rods were all stowed across the rafters in the ceiling, while | the carbon rods were on display along the walls.  I climbed a ladder and | picked out several rods, eventually purchasing one without the benefit | of casting -which was not possible under the circumstances.  That rod, | however, is a magnificent fishing tool. | | I took the Bastard to Spring Creek fitted out with a four weight line | and fished it.  The rod was a superb fishing tool.  At normal fishing | distances – for me 30-40 feet – it performed as well as any rod I have | fished.  Then, I went up on the bank along the stream for some pure | casting comparisons and put the 4 wt. line on the Farlow’s rod. After | that, back to the Bastard for more casting.  At normal fishing | distances, the Bastard was better.   With a modest double haul I could | put out about 50 ft., but that was the absolute limit at my abilities. | The Farlow’s rod can get better  distance than that – I punched out 60 | ft. this evening.  But to George’s credit the Bastard is lighter and at | normal fishing ranges it peforms better than the Farlow’s rod.  Of | course, I  understand that Wayne Cattanech (sp?)did not make the | comparison rod and I am hardly the equivilent of Steve Rajeff. | Nevertheless, the Bastard is a fine product that by my standards is all | that I could ask for in a bamboo rod.  The only thing I would change is | to use a cigar rather than full wells grip. | | Thanks George, and the check is in the mail. | | Mark Faulkner | |Very nice report Mark. But I gotta know, did ya get skunked? | |walt | |– |Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com |BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS |P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001 | |

– Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

steve, by far the best post yet on the whole issue of  bastard rods thanks for your time and effort chris smith – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, all. I am the owner of a new Bastard bamboo rod and so I thought I’d share my experiences (and many photos) with you. I had planned to post my story directly to the group, but because the battle has escalated to such an extreme (and embarrassing) level, I’ve decided to post only a link to it. Here it is: http://www.ipass.net/~stevez/gehrkerod/ If you’re interested, check it out and feel free to respond here or directly to my email address. For those of you at the Ball, I’ll see you soon!!! Steve Zimmerman

Response:

Steve….     As someone who has lurked more than participated in the Bastard Bamboo Rod fiasco, I was more than a little uncomfortable that such extreme positions were taken on one side or the other.  Your report, coupled with photos, is, in my opinion, the best post on the subject to date.  It was a fair and accurate report and you did a good job of articulating your opinions and backing them up with photos.  Thank you.  I think that anyone thinking about purchasing a Bastard Rod will be in a much better position to make a purchase decision thanks to you..     As to those who took "extreme positions" in their posts, I’m not throwing rocks at any of you.  If you were not happy with the quality of the rod you received, then all of the feelings attached to such a transaction are going to find their way into your post.  Similarly, when George felt that he was being "attacked", his defensive posture also came through in his posts.  All of this is understandable.     It was nice, however, to see a post like Steve’s Barry

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, all. I am the owner of a new Bastard bamboo rod and so I thought I’d share my experiences (and many photos) with you. I had planned to post my story directly to the group, but because the battle has escalated to such an extreme (and embarrassing) level, I’ve decided to post only a link to it. Here it is: http://www.ipass.net/~stevez/gehrkerod/ If you’re interested, check it out and feel free to respond here or directly to my email address. For those of you at the Ball, I’ll see you soon!!! Steve Zimmerman

Response:

Steve, I got to tell you, that was a beautiful well done work. Although I haven’t been around in a while ( I relocated and been busy with the new home), I found a little time to read some post. I must say that the post concerning the Bastard production line held my interest. Although George has his foes, he has a respectable amount of heart. If his rods are lacking (judging by the previous posts), I am sure that they will improve with experience. Chris Fleitman Fisherman by nature-goofball by society.

Response:

Steve, Nice pictures. I had wanted to see the tipping wraps. I had a dicussion with George on his chat room one night about and he had told me that they were four threads wide. But on your pictures some of the guide wraps are tipped and some are not. sf

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, all. I am the owner of a new Bastard bamboo rod and so I thought I’d share my experiences (and many photos) with you. I had planned to post my story directly to the group, but because the battle has escalated to such an extreme (and embarrassing) level, I’ve decided to post only a link to it. Here it is: http://www.ipass.net/~stevez/gehrkerod/ If you’re interested, check it out and feel free to respond here or directly to my email address. For those of you at the Ball, I’ll see you soon!!! Steve Zimmerman

Response:

will, i got involved with george origionally on VFS. i pointed out an inconsistancy in a statement he made about pricing  which included a general insult to a large group of people. i was polite. he replied with venom and vitriol. i contacted him privately. we communicated calmly and civily. he offered to send me a rod to see for myself how well made it was. not to buy, just to try. i said if he’s willing to go that far the least i can do is buy it – if it’s as good a rod as he claimes. sadly the rod he sent was pretty miserable. not suprising since it was one of the rods he’d sent to daytripper. which was returned  -which george said was so bad he destroyed it -which he now claims is perfectly fine. i told him i would give him a chance to talk about it privately before i posted my thoughts publicly, which was something i stated i planned on doing right up front. i sent him my review and had no responce. i sent him another request to respond and a time when i would post  publicly.from the time i posted to him to the time i posted publicly( 2 days) george was on line responding to and attacking others. my post was polite and truthful with a couple suggestions and best wishes for future success. his responce was typical george-i was made out to be a liar and ignorant. my next reply was georgian. if he can’t take it he shouldn’t dish it. i’m glad codemarine recieved a rod he’s happy with. it’s alot nicer looking than mine. BUT if you look at the cane work you can see there is room for improvement. the flats irregularities show up even in online photos. georges claimes of being better than Granger, Heddon et al are bad for this reason; it blinds george to realization that there is room for improvement in the bastards. if he keeps this attitude about his work and continues to trash anyone who dares disagree with him or finds fault with one of his rods, he’s hurting himself and his business. i for one tried to give the guy a chance AFTER he had ripped into me and look where it got me. on george gehrkes’ ENEMIES LIST. i wish him luck because with him instabilities he’s gonna need it.  bob smith                  .  I do believe George    is honestly   doing his best to satisfy all his customer< —–he has a funny way of going about it—

Response:

 Steve;  A wonderful report on the Bastard Bamboo Flyrod. It’s been extremely interesting reading these posts on ROFF about these rods. I’m a graphite man myself–although I do, on occasion bring out my Orvis Battenkill 8′ 6 wt. circa 1965.   I have no intention of ordering a Bastard–and if I did–I’d have to consider that decision quite carefully after reading some of these exchanges. Well done, Thanks!   Dave M

Response:

Bill: Thanks for a thoughful and conciliatory post.  I wish you would post more often. I myself enjoy quite a reputation for my rod building talent (glass & graphite), but hesitate at the challenge of building a bamboo from scratch.

I apologize ahead of time if I should recognize your name/business in a commercial flyrod context, but I don’t.  Do you build rods commercially, or just as a hobby? The reason I ask is that I honestly wonder how other people who post here, *and* make a living somehow from flyfishing, feel about George’s commercial use of this group.  It has always been shrugged off in the past as the acceptable (to some) price that was paid for all the "contributions" he made to roff.  Personally, I’m having a hard time seeing the contributions of late, but maybe that’s just me. Bob Before you buy.

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Bob, You really shouldn’t recognize my name/business.  I’m just a "have fun" flyfisher who enjoys the sport immensely.  I’ve been involved with many Fly Fishing clubs at one time or another and have taught several rod building classes in my time.  Lost count of the number of rods I’ve built at around 300 or so and that was quite a few years ago.  I just enjoy getting the best performance I can out of a blank. Most of my rods have been donated to good causes or traded for flies.  I definitely have a reputation for having built more rods than flies.  I did meet George at a show a few years back and I believe him to be sincere although a little sensitive concerning his products.  In my opinion, he tries too hard to make everyone satisfied (which is impossible) and then is hurt when someone isn’t satisfied.  His commercial posting on ROFF would seem out of place to me if it wasn’t for the fact he seems to be a part of the group.  Each group needs a diverse set of personalities.  George contributes to the group on a regular basis, providing information, insight, and definitely excitement. You haven’t seen me post very often, because I’m too busy.  Life has caught up to me and I had to get an education to change careers.  I just graduated with a BS degree in information systems while working 65 hours per week. Lurking on ROFF has helped me keep some sanity in my life during this time that I’ve been locked into my studies.  Hopefully not too long now until I can get employed at a real job and will be able to enjoy my weekends fishing again. Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bill: Thanks for a thoughful and conciliatory post.  I wish you would post more often. I myself enjoy quite a reputation for my rod building talent (glass & graphite), but hesitate at the challenge of building a bamboo from scratch. I apologize ahead of time if I should recognize your name/business in a commercial flyrod context, but I don’t.  Do you build rods commercially, or just as a hobby? The reason I ask is that I honestly wonder how other people who post here, *and* make a living somehow from flyfishing, feel about George’s commercial use of this group.  It has always been shrugged off in the past as the acceptable (to some) price that was paid for all the "contributions" he made to roff.  Personally, I’m having a hard time seeing the contributions of late, but maybe that’s just me. Bob Before you buy.

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Hello, all. I am the owner of a new Bastard bamboo rod and so I thought I’d share my experiences (and many photos) with you. I had planned to post my story directly to the group, but because the battle has escalated to such an extreme (and embarrassing) level, I’ve decided to post only a link to it. Here it is: http://www.ipass.net/~stevez/gehrkerod/ If you’re interested, check it out and feel free to respond here or directly to my email address. For those of you at the Ball, I’ll see you soon!!! Steve Zimmerman

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If you’re interested, check it out and feel free to respond here or directly to my email address. For those of you at the Ball, I’ll see you soon!!! Steve Zimmerman

Steve, All I can say is OUT-FREAKING-STANDING!!! Well done!  A truely fair report and analysis.  I especially liked the pictures to back up the claims made and to actually receive my first glimpse of a bastard! A++ Warren Riding a horse through a stream and chopping down a tree near you!

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Just when we thought it was safe to go in the water

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This, I think, says it all. A masterful production, codemarine. My hat’s off to you. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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A breath of fresh air, a Bastard related post without name calling, well done and informative. Thanks, Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, all. I am the owner of a new Bastard bamboo rod and so I thought I’d share my experiences (and many photos) with you. I had planned to post my story directly to the group, but because the battle has escalated to such an extreme (and embarrassing) level, I’ve decided to post only a link to it. Here it is: http://www.ipass.net/~stevez/gehrkerod/ If you’re interested, check it out and feel free to respond here or directly to my email address. For those of you at the Ball, I’ll see you soon!!! Steve Zimmerman

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Steve, you are to be congratulated on an excellent report on the B*stard rod, one I consider fair, well done and containing excellent advice for all concerned. I have stayed out of the fray, primarily because I am not in the running for a rod named B*stard, say what you will, but that is an offensive term to me. (maybe someday I’ll get over it) But I digress…I hope George takes to heart your advice, because, notwithstanding his reputation in ROFF, I wish him well.  Yours is not the first post stating that you found him to be a personable, decent fellow when not trading insults, etc. on ROFF. Let me say right up front that I believe these were honorable, trustworthy people who sent rods back to George, it is just incomprehensible to me that they would even consider dealing with George in any other way. It is my hope, yes even my plan to someday fish with Dave L., Daytripper, Mudfish and all the ROFFIANS that I can fit in to my fishing life, and yes, even George. Life is too short to spend it in any other way than to enjoy in person those people who I’ve come to know and respect on ROFF. It grieves me to see what has been going on these past weeks, for I’ve been a member of ROFF for over 5 yrs now and although I’m not a frequent poster, this group has jump-started my day (with a cup of coffee) for the past 5 years (when I’m not on the road)  It has become a part of my life, instead of having coffee and a donut, I have coffee and ROFF. And, a last special request to George…..read and reread CodeMarine’s advice, step back and give it some thought. As stated before, I wish you well in your rod venture, but you must change your public persona, and stop believing that people are out to "get you" with sabotage or other devious means to hurt your business venture.  Until you go nationwide with your rods, these folks on ROFF are all you’ve got to ’spread the word’ about B*stard rods. In other words, be cool George! In my opinion, _you_ are your own worst enemy, and only you can change that. Good luck and remember, regardless of what’s happened in the recent past, I’ll bet 99.9% of ROFFIANS want to see you succeed. I’m on the road this morning to Denver for 4 days, I want to see some positive feedback from you when I return George…..now, get your ass on over to http://www.ipass.net/~stevez/gehrkerod/ and read and heed! Respectfully, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, all. I am the owner of a new Bastard bamboo rod and so I thought I’d share my experiences (and many photos) with you. I had planned to post my story directly to the group, but because the battle has escalated to such an extreme (and embarrassing) level, I’ve decided to post only a link to it. Here it is: http://www.ipass.net/~stevez/gehrkerod/ If you’re interested, check it out and feel free to respond here or directly to my email address. For those of you at the Ball, I’ll see you soon!!! Steve Zimmerman

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A really nice, balanced report — thanks!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, all. I am the owner of a new Bastard bamboo rod and so I thought I’d share my experiences (and many photos) with you. I had planned to post my story directly to the group, but because the battle has escalated to such an extreme (and embarrassing) level, I’ve decided to post only a link to it. Here it is: http://www.ipass.net/~stevez/gehrkerod/ If you’re interested, check it out and feel free to respond here or directly to my email address. For those of you at the Ball, I’ll see you soon!!! Steve Zimmerman

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<<Hello, all. I am the owner of a new Bastard bamboo rod and so I thought I’d share my experiences (and many photos) with you. Great post Steve.  Thank god for gentlemen.

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<SNIP Excellent.  Thank you very much for the effort. I am also glad that you enjoy the rod and am pleased for George. Hope he takes your suggestions to heart. TL MC

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Steve, A hearty THANKS from all of us.  A positive and informative post is as refreshing as one can get and with pictures to back it up. Kind of verifies what I have thought all along.  I don’t believe any "Lies" have really been said on this news group.  I do believe George is honestly doing his best to satisfy all his customers.  The fact that he sent those rods to Dave and Dave at the last minute is proof of this.  However, that was a definite business error on Georges part.  He himself admits rods #11 and #12 were sent out in a rush, I think perhaps with a cut back in Quality Analysis to make the deadline. An effort to satisfy a customer at the cost of the perfection George is striving for. Dave and Dave on the other hand having received these rods, noticed some imperfections and felt a need to correct George on these points.  An appropriate action to take.  An action I believe I would have taken under the circumstances. The blow up seems to have stemmed from this action. I believe George is a man of honor who honestly wants to help people enjoy the sport. And has accomplished that many many times over.  However George tends to take on challenges of large magnitude.  None of us would take on the challenge of producing a quality production bamboo flyrod.  In fact it’s quite difficult to produce a single quality bamboo fly rod. I myself enjoy quite a reputation for my rod building talent (glass & graphite), but hesitate at the challenge of building a bamboo from scratch. I believe George takes great pride in the work he does and as well he should.  He has accomplished the close to impossible in the challenges he has taken on. Several posts from satisfied customers verify this.  However I’m afraid he strives to perfection to a fault.  He wants every product he makes to satisfy everyone perfectly and he won’t stop till he gets there. Unfortunately, no one is capable of perfection,  so when a criticism is made it is perceived as an attack. Thus a defensive stance which provokes another defensive stance which then provokes another defensive stance and so on it goes. It is time each forgive one another.  Motives were correct from both sides of the camp.  Perceptions, however tend to have a life of their own. I’ve heard comments about complaining to ISP’s and such.  Come on, bury the hatchet.  Let’s enjoy one another as the Roffians that we are. I neither defend George nor Dave and Dave.  I simply believe that the majority of all this uproar is due to misperceptions on the part of all. George misperceived Dave & Dave’s comments as an attack and the correction George made to those comments were perceived as an attack.  It’s just time to forgive. Bill (the Lurker)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, all. I am the owner of a new Bastard bamboo rod and so I thought I’d share my experiences (and many photos) with you. I had planned to post my story directly to the group, but because the battle has escalated to such an extreme (and embarrassing) level, I’ve decided to post only a link to it. Here it is: http://www.ipass.net/~stevez/gehrkerod/ If you’re interested, check it out and feel free to respond here or directly to my email address. For those of you at the Ball, I’ll see you soon!!! Steve Zimmerman

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(snippage has occurred) Steve Zimmerman

Well thought through and well designed post Steve.  However, considering the touchiness of the situation, I will have to see the longer term results to say it was effective in all the areas you intended.  I do think your post serves well as a model for resolving intense, sometimes emotional, conflicts on ROFF. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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Question:

shouldn’t be too rough less the st.johns rises. Walt if you are reading this, wish you were here. Our thoughts will be with you John… Big Dale

        john:  we are more than 200 miles inland, and hugo (1989) damn near destroyed our old home place.         please consider getting the hell out of there. wayno

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      john:  we are more than 200 miles inland, and hugo (1989) damn near destroyed our old home place.       please consider getting the hell out of there. wayno

Wayno and John, My pal Phil just pointed me in the direction of this thread, and I sincerely hope that Floyd does you no harm. The pictures we received showed Floyd as large as Florida – frightening! Hope you all keep well. — Bill http://www.graigroad.demon.co.uk

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The pictures we received showed Floyd as large as Florida – frightening!

I’d heard it was the size of Texas which, as you probably know, is bigger than planet earth<g. — Charlie…

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The pictures we received showed Floyd as large as Florida – frightening! I’d heard it was the size of Texas which, as you probably know, is bigger than planet earth<g.

Joking aside, John and wayno are worryingly quiet… — Phil Jones

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Joking aside, John and wayno are worryingly quiet…

Floyd pretty much missed John, nothing could hurt Wayno short of a disaster at the Balvenie distillery (Greensboro is well inland), we’ve heard from Jeff under curfew, I’m wondering about Indian Joe in Wilmington. Anybody heard ? — Ken Fortenberry Illini 2 – Tar Heels 1

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Joking aside, John and wayno are worryingly quiet…

True, and I hope for the best. I just heard from a friend in Savannah who said she drove all the way to Tennessee to find a room but there was no damage when she got back. Pretty scary. — Charlie…

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Excuse me…  I thought Balvenie was a single malt, a proper scotch… Are you saying that it’s fabricated in Greensboro..?

LOL ! No sir, I would never insult a proper single malt. I am merely saying that a healthy percentage of the world’s Balvenie production is CONSUMED in Greensboro, North Carolina. — Ken Fortenberry Illini 2 – Tar Heels 1

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nothing could hurt Wayno short of a disaster at the Balvenie distillery (Greensboro is well inland)

Excuse me…  I thought Balvenie was a single malt, a proper scotch… Are you saying that it’s fabricated in Greensboro..? — Phil Jones

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Floyd, now a tropical storm, blew through Maine last night on it’s way to the Maratimes. Heavy rains, some winds, nothing serious really, though the power did go out. I woke up about 2 am when the eye passed over, the silence was deafening. I hope eveyone in it’s path came through safely and you fishing is good for the rest of the year. I’m off to the West Branch of the Penobscot this weekend for a week of salmon fishing. Flyfish

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Floyd, now a tropical storm, blew through Maine last night on it’s way to the Maratimes. Heavy rains, some winds, nothing serious really, though the power did go out. I woke up about 2 am when the eye passed over, the silence was deafening. I hope eveyone in it’s path came through safely and you fishing is good for the rest of the year.

We had an entertaining afternoon here as well, Dave. Plenty of wind though no damage in my area (central MA) and a boatload of rain. Not much more than an inconvenience, really, though I suspect the coastal denizens had a tougher go of it. I’m off to the West Branch of the Penobscot this weekend for a week of salmon fishing.

Good luck to ya! Hope the high water gets the fish moving your way. /daytripper

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floyd’s downpour on eastern nc has really whipped our ass.  we had 15 inches of rain in about 24 hours. many of the towns east of raleigh along rivers and creeks are suffering substantial flooding and water damage.  Greenville has been cut off in all directions by washed out and flooded roads in and around the area.  The Tar River is rising and expected to crest at about 26 feet above normal over the next 2 days. Some folks are being evacuated from the roofs of their homes, others are stranded. The sole remaining power substation serving the city and county (app. 55,000 folks) is in jeopardy of being shut down by the flooding, and if it goes officials fear it will be several days before the current is reestablished.   jeff   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Floyd, now a tropical storm, blew through Maine last night on it’s way to the Maratimes. Heavy rains, some winds, nothing serious really, though the power did go out. I woke up about 2 am when the eye passed over, the silence was deafening. I hope eveyone in it’s path came through safely and you fishing is good for the rest of the year. I’m off to the West Branch of the Penobscot this weekend for a week of salmon fishing. Flyfish

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last report I saw rated Floyd’s force at 155mph, one mph under classification as a Force 5 hurricane.  I understand it is expected to come aground somewhere late tomorrow. My sincere best wishes to those of you, you families and your businesses in the wake of this pending monster.  I was in Charleston in 1992 4 days after Andrew hit and saw the devastation this type of a storm can do and I hope you are all prepared and safe. Larry Medina Thanks, the daughter and two grandkids will probably go to a shelter. I’v got two dogs and two cats which we’ve considered loading in the camper and heading to higher ground but I think I’ll just sit tight with them and weather it out. My wife will make up her mind when the time comes but shes a fiesty ol broad and will probably stay too. I checked the generator and it fired right off so we’ll have power for the pump and icebox. We are inland a bit, bout 50 miles from the cape so shouldn’t be too rough less the st.johns rises. Walt if you are reading this, wish you were here.                                                           John Popp                                                          in Sanford Fl. John, Thanks for the invite, but unfortunately I won’t be able to make it down for this monster. Hang in there bud and do me a favor, if that thing turns inland get the hell out of there. I’ve been through a few to many of those bastards…. From the looks of things, it looks like it’s gonna ride up along the coast and head our way….but don’t trust that river…it can get real big and nasty. Tight windows my friend, Walt — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

If anybody has watched the news Fl. was treated kindly by floyd. We’re just fine. been cleaning up some limbs and such, nothing big. We did get some high winds(bout 40mph) but nothing spectacular and only 3" of rain. I’ve been watching the news and it seems Fl.’s good fortune was bad fortune for those in the northern climes. Luckily by the time it got there it had weakened significatly. With the advantage of 20/20 hindsighte, it seems some news casters had derogatory statements about those who chose to leave. This was a terribly big and vicious storm as it churned up and just off shore and I hope those statements will not influence those of lesser expierience should the choice again need be made.                                                        John Popp                                                    in Sanford Fl.

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With the advantage of 20/20 hindsighte, it seems some news casters had derogatory statements about those who chose to leave. This was a terribly big and vicious storm as it churned up and just off shore and I hope those statements will not influence those of lesser expierience should the choice again need be made.

Good advice as usual John. Glad you made it through OK, I have a friend that lives near Savannah who evacuated and, though there was no damage when she got back, I hope she’d leave again under the same conditions. I’ve been in (literally) a couple of tornadoes, but hurricanes scare me bad. — Charlie…

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hurricanes scare me bad. — Charlie…

        i talked to pamlico jim this morning, and they are in a hell of a mess in greenville, nc.  no power, no stores open, conditions may not improve for days; the tar river hasn’t even crested yet.  there is only one road open to the outside world. wayno

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…  there is only one road open to the outside world. wayno

…and i took it to watauga county this morning!!! jeff

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nah…a mere 15 inches or so in greenville, nc, but not a drop at elk creek…very bizarre to drive out of greenville where the river is about 27 feet above flood stage to elk creek – it’s even lower than when you guys were here, and crystal clear.  the smallies are beckoning!! jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …and i took it to watauga county this morning!!! Did you get any rain up there? We didn’t get a drop down here. — Charlie…

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Last report I saw rated Floyd’s force at 155mph, one mph under classification as a Force 5 hurricane.  I understand it is expected to come aground somewhere late tomorrow. My sincere best wishes to those of you, you families and your businesses in the wake of this pending monster.  I was in Charleston in 1992 4 days after Andrew hit and saw the devastation this type of a storm can do and I hope you are all prepared and safe. Larry Medina

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Last report I saw rated Floyd’s force at 155mph, one mph under classification as a Force 5 hurricane.  I understand it is expected to come aground somewhere late tomorrow. My sincere best wishes to those of you, you families and your businesses in the wake of this pending monster.  I was in Charleston in 1992 4 days after Andrew hit and saw the devastation this type of a storm can do and I hope you are all prepared and safe. Larry Medina

Thanks, the daughter and two grandkids will probably go to a shelter. I’v got two dogs and two cats which we’ve considered loading in the camper and heading to higher ground but I think I’ll just sit tight with them and weather it out. My wife will make up her mind when the time comes but shes a fiesty ol broad and will probably stay too. I checked the generator and it fired right off so we’ll have power for the pump and icebox. We are inland a bit, bout 50 miles from the cape so shouldn’t be too rough less the st.johns rises. Walt if you are reading this, wish you were here.                                                           John Popp                                                          in Sanford Fl.

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shouldn’t be too rough less the st.johns rises. Walt if you are reading this, wish you were here.

Our thoughts will be with you John… Big Dale

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last report I saw rated Floyd’s force at 155mph, one mph under classification as a Force 5 hurricane.  I understand it is expected to come aground somewhere late tomorrow. My sincere best wishes to those of you, you families and your businesses in the wake of this pending monster.  I was in Charleston in 1992 4 days after Andrew hit and saw the devastation this type of a storm can do and I hope you are all prepared and safe. Larry Medina Thanks, the daughter and two grandkids will probably go to a shelter. I’v got two dogs and two cats which we’ve considered loading in the camper and heading to higher ground but I think I’ll just sit tight with them and weather it out. My wife will make up her mind when the time comes but shes a fiesty ol broad and will probably stay too. I checked the generator and it fired right off so we’ll have power for the pump and icebox. We are inland a bit, bout 50 miles from the cape so shouldn’t be too rough less the st.johns rises. Walt if you are reading this, wish you were here.                                                           John Popp                                                          in Sanford Fl.

John, Thanks for the invite, but unfortunately I won’t be able to make it down for this monster. Hang in there bud and do me a favor, if that thing turns inland get the hell out of there. I’ve been through a few to many of those bastards…. From the looks of things, it looks like it’s gonna ride up along the coast and head our way….but don’t trust that river…it can get real big and nasty. Tight windows my friend, Walt — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

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Question:

I will be fishing the upper Elk soon (near Slaty Fork).  Any advice on fly selection, water conditions etc?  Thanks in advance

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Hey Again! You sure are persistent in putting posts about WV Flyfishing on this newsgroup!  If I didn’t know better, I’d think you were a plant ffor my guide business as you and I seem to be the only ones regularly discussing WV flyfishing.  As for what is going on, wait until a few days or even the day before you leave and send me an e-mail.  If I don’t reply within 24 hours, chances are that I’m somewhere inthe backcountry and without access.  Call and leave a message at our 800 number and ask for a call back about conditions on the Slaty.  Oak fields these calls and is usually pretty good about getting back quickly.  I hope you catch them all as long as you put ‘em back!!! See you Streamside, Keith Comstock Cranberry Wilderness Outfitters phone: (800) 848-8398 web: http://www.wvoutfitters.com PS- I’m thinking about putting up a conditions page and trying to update in no less than once a week.  What do you think?

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Question:

taxes, sex & flyfishing As is usual this time of year, today I had sex with  Uncle Sam….he screwed me good this time. At least it will be another year before I get reamed again. I didn’t even enjoy the post-coitus cigarette. What I did enjoy was going to a neat little back country stone-creek that is chock full of wild fish and I won’t divulge the name of it. Let’s just say it’s nowhere near North Carolina nor Key West. I’ve been meaning to fish this stretch for years and finally made it today. I parked at an easy access point and started working upstream about 4 pm and picked up a couple of small wild browns and rainbows on a size 16 ehc and than landed a nice ‘bow who ripped the elk hair off the fly.  In a lackadaisical mood, I left the wingless "caddis" tied on and fished it just as a full-shanked hackled fly. I couldn’t believe it as I continued to catch fish on this half-dressed fly. So far, I had been working upstream through a series of riffles and pockets and an occasional small pool. As I came around a bend, a big beautiful pool greeted me with a nice waterfall at the head. Ahhhh, the promised land. I finally changed flies to another full-bodied ehc. I surveyed my surroundings and determined that if I was going to get my fly to where that big moving shadow was, it was going to take one hell of a soft roll cast. Unbelievably,  I succeeded with my effort and was rewarded with a solid 14 inch wild rainbow that ripped back and forth through the pool. Usually, when that happens all the other fish inhabiting a pool go a hiding. Not this pool. I actually took three more smaller fish before they wised up to my presence. I shortly debated with myself  to call it a day versus climbing up and around the falls. I climbed. A little while later with no broken bones, I stepped back into the creek. A hatch of Hendricksons (kinda early in the season I thought, but it has been warm as of late) greeted me and I switched flies quickly to match them. I was continually rewarded with fish as I moved through a gorge section of the creek. Up ahead, I heard what sounded like thunder and as a I came out of the gorge I was taken aback in complete awe. A vertical waterfall at least 100 feet high emptied into this big deep pool. Spray from the fall was reaching me at least a 100 feet away. Pretty damn awesome. I changed flies to a size 12 march brown and approached the pool slowly and began casting the fly into the exits with no luck. I picked up a rainbow from the center and as I was bringing him in something big attacked him. Time to change flies I say…. I put on a big screaming yellow/black wooly-bugger and double-hauled it across the pool and started stripping it back in like there was no tomorrow. Cast and retrieve. I casted and retrieved countless times with no luck. I changed flies to a wally-melon (an aborted wooly-bugger to the inanely curious) and had a resounding strike on the first cast. Big fish, a real big fish. About five minutes later as I released the two-foot or so brownie, I lit another cigarette that was far more satisfying. –walt   4-14-98

Response:

— LET YOUR HOOK BE ALWAYS CAST; IN THE POOL WHERE YOU LEAST EXPECT IT, THERE WILL BE A FISH.                                           -OVID- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – taxes, sex & flyfishing As is usual this time of year, today I had sex with  Uncle Sam….he screwed me good this time. At least it will be another year before I get reamed again. I didn’t even enjoy the post-coitus cigarette. What I did enjoy was going to a neat little back country stone-creek that is chock full of wild fish and I won’t divulge the name of it. Let’s just say it’s nowhere near North Carolina nor Key West. I’ve been meaning to fish this stretch for years and finally made it today. I parked at an easy access point and started working upstream about 4 pm and picked up a couple of small wild browns and rainbows on a size 16 ehc and than landed a nice ‘bow who ripped the elk hair off the fly.  In a lackadaisical mood, I left the wingless "caddis" tied on and fished it just as a full-shanked hackled fly. I couldn’t believe it as I continued to catch fish on this half-dressed fly. So far, I had been working upstream through a series of riffles and pockets and an occasional small pool. As I came around a bend, a big beautiful pool greeted me with a nice waterfall at the head. Ahhhh, the promised land. I finally changed flies to another full-bodied ehc. I surveyed my surroundings and determined that if I was going to get my fly to where that big moving shadow was, it was going to take one hell of a soft roll cast. Unbelievably,  I succeeded with my effort and was rewarded with a solid 14 inch wild rainbow that ripped back and forth through the pool. Usually, when that happens all the other fish inhabiting a pool go a hiding. Not this pool. I actually took three more smaller fish before they wised up to my presence. I shortly debated with myself  to call it a day versus climbing up and around the falls. I climbed. A little while later with no broken bones, I stepped back into the creek. A hatch of Hendricksons (kinda early in the season I thought, but it has been warm as of late) greeted me and I switched flies quickly to match them. I was continually rewarded with fish as I moved through a gorge section of the creek. Up ahead, I heard what sounded like thunder and as a I came out of the gorge I was taken aback in complete awe. A vertical waterfall at least 100 feet high emptied into this big deep pool. Spray from the fall was reaching me at least a 100 feet away. Pretty damn awesome. I changed flies to a size 12 march brown and approached the pool slowly and began casting the fly into the exits with no luck. I picked up a rainbow from the center and as I was bringing him in something big attacked him. Time to change flies I say…. I put on a big screaming yellow/black wooly-bugger and double-hauled it across the pool and started stripping it back in like there was no tomorrow. Cast and retrieve. I casted and retrieved countless times with no luck. I changed flies to a wally-melon (an aborted wooly-bugger to the inanely curious) and had a resounding strike on the first cast. Big fish, a real big fish. About five minutes later as I released the two-foot or so brownie, I lit another cigarette that was far more satisfying. –walt   4-14-98

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -taxes, sex & flyfishing As is usual this time of year, today I had sex with  Uncle Sam….he screwed me good this time. At least it will be another year before I get reamed again. I didn’t even enjoy the post-coitus cigarette. What I did enjoy was going to a neat little back country stone-creek that is chock full of wild fish and I won’t divulge the name of it. Let’s just say it’s nowhere near North Carolina nor Key West. I’ve been meaning to fish this stretch for years and finally made it today. I parked at an easy access point and started working upstream about 4 pm and picked up a couple of small wild browns and rainbows on a size 16 ehc and than landed a nice ‘bow who ripped the elk hair off the fly.  In a lackadaisical mood, I left the wingless "caddis" tied on and fished it just as a full-shanked hackled fly. I couldn’t believe it as I continued to catch fish on this half-dressed fly. So far, I had been working upstream through a series of riffles and pockets and an occasional small pool. As I came around a bend, a big beautiful pool greeted me with a nice waterfall at the head. Ahhhh, the promised land. I finally changed flies to another full-bodied ehc. I surveyed my surroundings and determined that if I was going to get my fly to where that big moving shadow was, it was going to take one hell of a soft roll cast. Unbelievably,  I succeeded with my effort and was rewarded with a solid 14 inch wild rainbow that ripped back and forth through the pool. Usually, when that happens all the other fish inhabiting a pool go a hiding. Not this pool. I actually took three more smaller fish before they wised up to my presence. I shortly debated with myself  to call it a day versus climbing up and around the falls. I climbed. A little while later with no broken bones, I stepped back into the creek. A hatch of Hendricksons (kinda early in the season I thought, but it has been warm as of late) greeted me and I switched flies quickly to match them. I was continually rewarded with fish as I moved through a gorge section of the creek. Up ahead, I heard what sounded like thunder and as a I came out of the gorge I was taken aback in complete awe. A vertical waterfall at least 100 feet high emptied into this big deep pool. Spray from the fall was reaching me at least a 100 feet away. Pretty damn awesome. I changed flies to a size 12 march brown and approached the pool slowly and began casting the fly into the exits with no luck. I picked up a rainbow from the center and as I was bringing him in something big attacked him. Time to change flies I say…. I put on a big screaming yellow/black wooly-bugger and double-hauled it across the pool and started stripping it back in like there was no tomorrow. Cast and retrieve. I casted and retrieved countless times with no luck. I changed flies to a wally-melon (an aborted wooly-bugger to the inanely curious) and had a resounding strike on the first cast. Big fish, a real big fish. About five minutes later as I released the two-foot or so brownie, I lit another cigarette that was far more satisfying. –walt   4-14-98

walt, wake up…… WAKE UP WALT!!

Response:

Question:

How do you get 21 hours of fuel into an Aztec?  I’m not familiar with the type, but at an avg fuel burn of 8-10 GPH – we’re talking about 168-210 gals. Where would you put it all?  Another question springs to mind – how do you add oil in flight? I’ve seen club aircraft burn as much as a 1/2 qt/hr. The sump would be bone dry after 21 hrs with no additional oil.

The Aztec would burn considerably more than 8-10 GPH.  Probably closer to 25 GPH.  So we are talking about over 500 gallons.  The Aztec is a rather slow twin with a pair of 250 HP flat engines.  It is Pipers upscale Apache, just as the Beech Baron is the high power version of the Travelair. John

Response:

Well Jon Johanson has done it both ways (make that crossed the Pacific … ) in an RV-4 during his round the world trips. Check out his Web site at http://www.mag-net.educ.monash.edu.au/saaa/head.html.

This link doesn’t work for me?

Response:

I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James

Response:

Check out http://www.calle.com/aviation/airports.cgi Allows you to specify departure, destination, range and speed, and displays a nice table and map of the results. Lots of material for dream flights… BTW you probably don’t want a totally deserted island; food, water, fuel, runway and women should be minimum requirements (the website allows you to specify 2 out of these 5 Eric – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James

Response:

I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James

I think someone tried this in a twin.  Her name was Amelia something….. Sorrry, it was too easy to pass on  :-) Jeff Oslick

Response:

I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James

Da Plane, Boss, Da Plane! (sorry, just couldn’t help myself) John Galban====N4BQ (PA28-180)

Response:

I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James

James, It is most certainly feasible and is done all the time. Wether done single engine or twin is really no consideration. In some respects, a single may be better than a twin because in a twin you need to carry much more fuel to feed two engines. That second engine does not give you any more chances to remain airborne, if one should fail, until such a time that you are back down to normal weights. During the early phases of the flight you would be so heavy with fuel that one engine could not possibly keep you in the air. The two longest legs are Oakland to Honolulu 2100 NM and from there you have another long leg, either HNL to Majuro, Marshall Islands, or HNL to Tarawa, Republic of Kiribati, the latter one being a good stop, but almost again as far as OAK-HNL. After that you can choose your legs more easily and they are considerably shorter. Reinhard

Response:

I don’t know what you are flying but when flying my instructors Turbo Aztec, six full grown american people and topped off I can hold 15,000 on one engine, well, or as long as my leg holds out. cg It is most certainly feasible and is done all the time. Wether done single engine or twin is really no consideration. In some respects, a single may be better than a twin because in a twin you need to carry much more fuel to feed two engines. That second engine does not give you any more chances to remain airborne, if one should fail, until such a time that you are back down to normal weights. During the early phases of the flight you would be so heavy with fuel that one engine could not possibly keep you in the air. Reinhard

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know what you are flying but when flying my instructors Turbo Aztec, six full grown american people and topped off I can hold 15,000 on one engine, well, or as long as my leg holds out. cg It is most certainly feasible and is done all the time. Wether done single engine or twin is really no consideration. In some respects, a single may be better than a twin because in a twin you need to carry much more fuel to feed two engines. That second engine does not give you any more chances to remain airborne, if one should fail, until such a time that you are back down to normal weights. During the early phases of the flight you would be so heavy with fuel that one engine could not possibly keep you in the air. Reinhard

First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard

Response:

I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James The two longest legs are Oakland to Honolulu 2100 NM and from there you have another long leg, either HNL to Majuro, Marshall Islands, or HNL to Tarawa, Republic of Kiribati, the latter one being a good stop, but almost again as far as OAK-HNL. After that you can choose your legs more easily and they are considerably shorter.

You could also go up to Alaska, across and down through Russia, over to Japan and then on to the South Pacific.  It is a much longer journey, but no 2000 mile over water legs. (I wonder how far the jump to Palau would be, I’ve always wanted to go there…) Brian

Response:

First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard I only show from OAK to PHNL to be 2089 nm that would only be about 10 hrs in the air.

My rounded off 2100 NM was only a paltry 11 NM off from your very accurate 2089!! well within range 300 gal, 1800 lbs, but you would not be flying  more than 5 hours on one engine. cg

It is quite obvious to me that you are an armchair pilot who has never done anything like this before. Your numbers are all wrong, and I hope for your sake that you never try it. You would most certainly get your feet wet. It took me 13 hours in a Baron 58 and 15 in a Twin Bonanza. Your turbos in that Aztec would most likely do very little if anything for you since westbound to HNL most frequently you need to stay at 10K or below lest you catch the prevailing westerlies which are very strong at altitude. So you would do well to get 150K over the water. Reinhard

Response:

I only show from OAK to PHNL to be 2089 nm that would only be about 10 hrs in the air. well within range 300 gal, 1800 lbs, but you would not be flying  more than 5 hours on one engine.   cg First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard

Response:

First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard

I thought for IFR you only needed 45 min reserve.  – Doug  -  Kingfisher plans are here…Now, about that Garage… …cruising between 150 to 200 miles per hour… Greater cruising speeds are possible, but the size of the earth does not warrent greater speeds. -Igor Sikorsky in 1934

Response:

It doesn’t matter a great deal what the legal reserve is.  Winds over the Pacific on that flight are usually against you.  If you go high at all to minimize fuel consumption the head winds increase.  The Aztec is NOT a fast airplane for its fuel consumption.   To fly that leg without considerably MORE than a 45 minute reserve, is to seriously invite wet feet.  The 3  hour reserve is not bad.  The 14 hours is quite optimistic, in my opinion.  I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec.  Then I would add another three hours for reserve.  That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks!   John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard I thought for IFR you only needed 45 min reserve.  – Doug  -  Kingfisher plans are here…Now, about that Garage… …cruising between 150 to 200 miles per hour… Greater cruising speeds are possible, but the size of the earth does not warrent greater speeds. -Igor Sikorsky in 1934

Response:

OK, so its been done before in factory planes, how about homebuilts?  I am considering the KR2, which has an advertised range of 1600sm, can this be extended with additional tanks to the 2100nm required to fly to HNL? James – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James James, It is most certainly feasible and is done all the time. Wether done single engine or twin is really no consideration. In some respects, a single may be better than a twin because in a twin you need to carry much more fuel to feed two engines. That second engine does not give you any more chances to remain airborne, if one should fail, until such a time that you are back down to normal weights. During the early phases of the flight you would be so heavy with fuel that one engine could not possibly keep you in the air. The two longest legs are Oakland to Honolulu 2100 NM and from there you have another long leg, either HNL to Majuro, Marshall Islands, or HNL to Tarawa, Republic of Kiribati, the latter one being a good stop, but almost again as far as OAK-HNL. After that you can choose your legs more easily and they are considerably shorter. Reinhard

Response:

What is the availability of av-gas in Russia. I hear that it’s non-existant. D.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec.  Then I would add another three hours for reserve.  That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks! How do you get 21 hours of fuel into an Aztec?  I’m not familiar with the type, but at an avg fuel burn of 8-10 GPH – we’re talking about 168-210 gals. Where would you put it all?  Another question springs to mind – how do you add oil in flight? I’ve seen club aircraft burn as much as a 1/2 qt/hr. The sump would be bone dry after 21 hrs with no additional oil. If you stay below 10k feet, you will frequently find winds that are not too bad. You often find about 10 knots of help down low.. Under no circumstances would I start out with ANY headwind on that leg. Then you could make HNL in about 14-15 hrs in an Aztec. Taking a Baron to Fiji last year, I flew at 6K feet to HNL and did quite well. (13 hrs.) Fitting all that fuel into the plane is really not so difficult. There are professional tanking outfits that install ferry tanks in the cabin in a day. You are certainly correct when you adress the oil issue. It is absolutely essential that you know the oil consumption of your engines. And there is also a way to rig an oil replenishing setup to that you can add oil in flight. Reinhard

Reinhard is exactly right.  You notice in the original post that I did mention that it would take some fancy ferry tanks to get the fuel in! When my airplane flew across the Atlantic from Brazil to Cornwall, they added a special fancy ferry tank.  A 50 gallon drum on chocks where the back seat goes, with a wobble pump to pump fuel up into the wing tank. They recommended that you run the wing tank down to less than a quarter full before pumping fuel up to it.  They said watch the gauges so you do not overfill it and pump fuel overboard.   The also recommended the long distance power setting of 1800 RPM and 23 inches of manifold pressure.  That was supposed to get the fuel consumption down to 14.7 gallons per hour.  That gave a little over eight hours in the air.  At that power setting, you get 100 knots! Still wouldn’t make Honolulu! John

Response:

No idea about a KR2, but you might want to read Sport Aviation (past few issues) and look for the 2 part round the world story by the author and Burt Rutan, who flew their Long EZ’s around the world. Very informative (and nice pictures – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, so its been done before in factory planes, how about homebuilts?  I am considering the KR2, which has an advertised range of 1600sm, can this be extended with additional tanks to the 2100nm required to fly to HNL? James

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, so its been done before in factory planes, how about homebuilts?  I am considering the KR2, which has an advertised range of 1600sm, can this be extended with additional tanks to the 2100nm required to fly to HNL? James Well Jon Johanson has done it both ways (make that crossed the Pacific … ) in an RV-4 during his round the world trips. Check out his Web site at http://www.mag-net.educ.monash.edu.au/saaa/head.html. He has also published his autobio called "Aiming High", Wakefield Press, South Australia, ISBN 1 86254 424 7. Highly recommended reading for anyone building their own plane.

James, You are considering a monumental task here ol chap, this sought of feat requires a hell of a lot of homework and I would suggest you’re really stretching it in a KR-2. With a large amount of retro-fitting you could possibly carry out this adventure, however the stakes are extremely high! I would also endorse the above, ie read Jon Johannson’s book and while your doing that bare a thought for the planning both technically and enroute that goes into these voyages. You may also wish to contact the "Mick & Dick" of "Round the World Friendship Tour":- Sport Aviation Feb edition Pg 76. For a start, unless you’ve got heaps of "Bucks" behind you, just go build your A/C and enjoy flying it around the "States". Whilst I’ll admit, I don’t have an intermit knowledge of the KR-2 and its weight & balance etc, it is only small by any standards. Its payload excess does not go down well with the number crunching required when you consider such additions as fuel, extra redundancy systems req’d, and ESPECIALLY CONSIDER ENGINE RELIABLITY etc, etc. To say the least, 18 plus hours is a long time to spend in the close confines of a KR-2 cockpit, surrounded by custom built ferry tanks around your ears. I have two buddies that were involved in Ferry Flights across the Pacific in their younger days. One of them did get his feet wet mid Pacific (1200 Nm from nowhere & at night) when the nut on the Alternator pulley worked its way loose. Lucky for him he had spotted a fishing boat a couple of hours before and was able to back track and relocate it. All be it, he was now down to torch and compass. That was in a brand new production A/C as well. Glenn now does his long transcontinental flights the same way I do, the only way:-In style at 43,000 ft. James, whilst your challenge is a commendable one, the golden rule is to keep your feet dry. Best way to do that is travel the South Pacific the same way most of us do, In a 747, 767 etc, and don’t forget you can have the added advantage of sipping champagne or other adult beverages!! If you’re considering going on from HNL to other South Pacific destinations, then you have a hole heap more challenges in front of you. Regards Ray (Just my 2 cents worth) J.

Response:

My tongue was firmly in cheek.  I don’t fly VFR without at least 1 hour reserve. — Doug  -  Kingfisher plans are here…Now, about that Garage… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It doesn’t matter a great deal what the legal reserve is.  Winds over the Pacific on that flight are usually against you.  If you go high at all to minimize fuel consumption the head winds increase.  The Aztec is NOT a fast airplane for its fuel consumption.   To fly that leg without considerably MORE than a 45 minute reserve, is to seriously invite wet feet.  The 3  hour reserve is not bad.  The 14 hours is quite optimistic, in my opinion.  I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec.  Then I would add another three hours for reserve.  That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks!   John I thought for IFR you only needed 45 min reserve.  – Doug  -  Kingfisher plans are here…Now, about that Garage… …cruising between 150 to 200 miles per hour… Greater cruising speeds are possible, but the size of the earth does not warrent greater speeds. -Igor Sikorsky in 1934

Response:

OK, so its been done before in factory planes, how about homebuilts?  I am considering the KR2, which has an advertised range of 1600sm, can this be extended with additional tanks to the 2100nm required to fly to HNL? James

Well Jon Johanson has done it both ways (make that crossed the Pacific … ) in an RV-4 during his round the world trips. Check out his Web site at http://www.mag-net.educ.monash.edu.au/saaa/head.html. He has also published his autobio called "Aiming High", Wakefield Press, South Australia, ISBN 1 86254 424 7. Highly recommended reading for anyone building their own plane. Rgds JD   …… I’d rather be flying ….. John Duncan M.C.N.E.  PPL(A)  J.P.  AOPA(Aust)#42745 EAA#548147 J & J Network Services Pty Ltd P.O. Box 109 Minto N.S.W. 2566 Australia

Response:

I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec.  Then I would add another three hours for reserve.  That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks! How do you get 21 hours of fuel into an Aztec?  I’m not familiar with the type, but at an avg fuel burn of 8-10 GPH – we’re talking about 168-210 gals. Where would you put it all?  Another question springs to mind – how do you add oil in flight? I’ve seen club aircraft burn as much as a 1/2 qt/hr. The sump would be bone dry after 21 hrs with no additional oil.

If you stay below 10k feet, you will frequently find winds that are not too bad. You often find about 10 knots of help down low.. Under no circumstances would I start out with ANY headwind on that leg. Then you could make HNL in about 14-15 hrs in an Aztec. Taking a Baron to Fiji last year, I flew at 6K feet to HNL and did quite well. (13 hrs.) Fitting all that fuel into the plane is really not so difficult. There are professional tanking outfits that install ferry tanks in the cabin in a day. You are certainly correct when you adress the oil issue. It is absolutely essential that you know the oil consumption of your engines. And there is also a way to rig an oil replenishing setup to that you can add oil in flight. Reinhard

Response:

It doesn’t matter a great deal what the legal reserve is.  Winds over the Pacific on that flight are usually against you.  If you go high at all to minimize fuel consumption the head winds increase.  The Aztec is NOT a fast airplane for its fuel consumption.   To fly that leg without considerably MORE than a 45 minute reserve, is to seriously invite wet feet.  The 3  hour reserve is not bad.  The 14 hours is quite optimistic, in my opinion.  I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec.  Then I would add another three hours for reserve.  That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks!  

How do you get 21 hours of fuel into an Aztec?  I’m not familiar with the type, but at an avg fuel burn of 8-10 GPH – we’re talking about 168-210 gals. Where would you put it all?  Another question springs to mind – how do you add oil in flight? I’ve seen club aircraft burn as much as a 1/2 qt/hr. The sump would be bone dry after 21 hrs with no additional oil.

Response:

What did you assume that I would try it without any  preflight planning?? cg It is quite obvious to me that you are an armchair pilot who has never done anything like this before. Your numbers are all wrong, and I hope for your sake that you never try it. You would most certainly get your feet wet. It took me 13 hours in a Baron 58 and 15 in a Twin Bonanza. Your turbos in that Aztec would most likely do very little if anything for you since westbound to HNL most frequently you need to stay at 10K or below lest you catch the prevailing westerlies which are very strong at altitude. So you would do well to get 150K over the water. Reinhard

Response:

First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard I thought for IFR you only needed 45 min reserve.  – Doug  -  

Surely you jest, Doug. Kidding aside, the special flight permit that you get for the overload condition and he temporary fuel tank installation requires you calculate in a 3 hour reserve on transoceanic flights. Things can happen while on such a long flight; the forecast winds can turn out different, you might have equipment problems that cause you to burn more fuel for less airspeed than you had planned, etc. I have had several a couple of occasions when I was glad for the extra fuel. Remember, there is only one time when you can have too much fuel: when you are on fire. Reinhard

Response:

Question:

Anyone interested in fishing this great river with myself email: I’m not a guide. I have been fly fishing for 25 years ( I am 35) and tie ALL my own flies. Looking to meet a few avid fly fishermen. -Dave

Response:

Anyone interested in fishing this great river with myself email: I’m not a guide. I have been fly fishing for 25 years ( I am 35) and tie ALL my own flies. Looking to meet a few avid fly fishermen. -Dave

Stand at the head of any Delaware pool on a pleasant Saturday in June, swing your rod around in a circle at arm’s length and you should hit about 10 fellow fly chuckers Seriously, I love to fish the Delaware though don’t get down there as much as I would like these days. I would suggest a stay at the Delaware River Club or the West Branch Angler and you will likely meet a number of friendly folks that share your interest. Good luck, Steve

Response:

Ditto on your recommendation on the West Branch Angler. Top shelf

operation with lots of good people. Bill — Bill Fling                     Tel. (315) 298-3044 SALMON RIVER ANGLERS LODGE     FAX  (315) 298-2619 P.O. Box 353                   Rt. 13, Rome Road Pulaski, NY 13142-0353   ‘SALMON RIVER/LAKE ONTARIO SPORTFISHING REPORTS’             ‘http://www.salmon-river.com’

Response:

Ditto on your recommendation on the West Branch Angler. Top shelf operation with lots of good people.

I much prefer The Delaware River Club over West Branch Angler (they’re about a mile apart for those not familiar with the West Branch of he Delaware.  The West Branch Angler seems to be trying to cater to a more upscale crowd and it’s reflected in the prices of their flyshop and accomodations.  I’ve been in their shop about three times and each time they came off a bit snobbish.  The DRC on the other hand just doesn’t seem pretentious at all.  I stayed at the lodge last year with my girlfriend and even though she doesn’t fish they offered her the use of a pair of waders (no charge) so that she could "fish" with me.  Bob and his wife are extremely congenial and offer information freely about places to fish, techniques, and just about anything else one might need.  Add to that the experience and knowledge of Al Caucci and his fly school at DRC and it’s hard to beat. This may only be a rumor, but the first time I fish the West Branch I talked to a couple of guys that implied that the owner of West Branch Angler had been prosecuted two years in a row for illegally stocking rainbows in the section of stream in front of their resort.  Apparently the fine for such an offense was about the same as a single nights stay at one of their cabins. Add Bill

John Fereira

Response:

The minimum release has been cut back to 160 cfs. Looks like trouble ahead for the WB and big D trout if we have a "normal" rainfall summer and the Delaware tribs supply enough water to keep Phila. happy. It’s sad that the NYDEC would agree to such a release schedule. But I guess the decision was made by people who don’t fish the WB and and don’t know it’s water needs in the summer. In their ignorance, I suppose 160 cfs sounded like a good number.            Bob

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What do mean be by stability in the releases from Cannonsville? I’ve been fishing the WB since 1980 and the water releases have pretty much remained the same. Up one day, down the next. Starting this year, a new release schedule has been instituted. Starting June 1, the mandatory release will be 160 cfs. This will continue until Sept. 1. In the past the mandatory summer release started on June 15 and was 330 cfs. I believe these numbers are correct or nearly so. In addition the minimum winter release has been increased slightly. Instead of 30 people/minute in Deposit flushing their toilets, I think they’ve increased it to 45. I agree with Al Caucci who believes this new minimum summer release schedule is inadequate. If we get a stretch of 80 degree plus days for about a week in July, the water temps. near Hancock will go thru the roof. In addition, with such a small release, most of the trout will tend to move upstream towards Deposit. The "stress bank" has been increased. Big deal. I realize that these higher temps. will adversely affect Caucci’s DRC business which is near Hancock, but I also believe it will have a major negative effect on the whole WB fishery. It most likely will cut the driftboat traffic on the WB which is a plus.  But with the river running low during the summer, it will make the river more fishable than in the past and will put a lot more fishing pressure on the trout. I hope I’m wrong, but that’s the worst case scenario that I see for this summer on the fabulous WB. Bob Hergan

I suppose "relative stability" would be a more accurate term for the flow regime in the upper Delaware. Absolute stability is, of course, unattainable even under natural conditions let alone in a system which serves so many demands. Cold water fishery considerations will always take a back seat for NYC water supply and combatting saltwater intrusion to protect the Phila.& Camden water supplies. The "directed" releases which are aimed at holding back the saltline and and which require a 1750cfs at the Montague gauge are (IMHO) more important to the c.w. fishery than the "conservation" releases which began in fits and starts in 1977 and were finally permanently approved by the DRBC late in ‘83. The agreement called for a minimum release from Cannonsville of 45cfs from 4/1 to 6/14 and 8/16 to 12/31, 325cfs from 6/15 to 8/15 ( except in defined drought or drought warning- a whole nother story) and 33cfs from 11/1 to 3/31. If the required summer release from Canonsville has been cut back to 160 cfs there will be problems in the W. Branch and the mainstem since the mainstem Delaware lives or dies by the cold water thermoplume from the W. Branch. This will happen when there is adequate enough flow in the watershed in general to maintain the "Montague Formula" without Canonsville’s help.                         Regards, RY

Response:

What do mean be by stability in the releases from Cannonsville? I’ve been fishing the WB since 1980 and the water releases have pretty much remained the same. Up one day, down the next. Starting this year, a new release schedule has been instituted. Starting June 1, the mandatory release will be 160 cfs. This will continue until Sept. 1. In the past the mandatory summer release started on June 15 and was 330 cfs. I believe these numbers are correct or nearly so. In addition the minimum winter release has been increased slightly. Instead of 30 people/minute in Deposit flushing their toilets, I think they’ve increased it to 45. I agree with Al Caucci who believes this new minimum summer release schedule is inadequate. If we get a stretch of 80 degree plus days for about a week in July, the water temps. near Hancock will go thru the roof. In addition, with such a small release, most of the trout will tend to move upstream towards Deposit. The "stress bank" has been increased. Big deal. I realize that these higher temps. will adversely affect Caucci’s DRC business which is near Hancock, but I also believe it will have a major negative effect on the whole WB fishery. It most likely will cut the driftboat traffic on the WB which is a plus.  But with the river running low during the summer, it will make the river more fishable than in the past and will put a lot more fishing pressure on the trout. I hope I’m wrong, but that’s the worst case scenario that I see for this summer on the fabulous WB.
Bob Hergan  

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip pervious posts Tell you what bugs me: maybe social degradation on the Delaware was inevitable, but it looks to me and plenty of others like the hucksters ruined the experience on the river and instigated a disturbing control mentality throughout the watershed. These guys were largely mute in the 70’s and early 80’s when the battle for adequate flows was going on. Just as soon as there was some stability they moved-in to scarf-up control and reap the profits.                         Ray Ray, I’m not sure what you mean by "social degradation" and would be interested in your definition.

A selfish one admittedly: overcrowding due to access restrictions to the point of unpleasantness, a lack by many of what the old timers called stream etiquette, general unseemliness like yelling things like paraleptophlebia and isonychia across the pools. And many other things that could be endlessly rationalized and debated but that have vitiated what I consider a satisfying angling experience. As to the ‘Johny come lately with money’ scenario, it seems like what else could be expected. With flow stability providing a real world-class fishery the value of riverside property as a money maker was now to be realized. So a couple of guys with the resources show up and start buying so they can lock up as much access as possible. They can sell this access and related services for top dollar. This is pretty much the development scenario going on everywhere.

True but nonetheless still worth bitching about.                                 Regards, Ray

Response:

<snip pervious posts Tell you what bugs me: maybe social degradation on the Delaware was inevitable, but it looks to me and plenty of others like the hucksters ruined the experience on the river and instigated a disturbing control mentality throughout the watershed. These guys were largely mute in the 70’s and early 80’s when the battle for adequate flows was going on. Just as soon as there was some stability they moved-in to scarf-up control and reap the profits.                         Ray

Ray, I’m not sure what you mean by "social degradation" and would be interested in your definition. As to the ‘Johny come lately with money’ scenario, it seems like what else could be expected. With flow stability providing a real world-class fishery the value of riverside property as a money maker was now to be realized. So a couple of guys with the resources show up and start buying so they can lock up as much access as possible. They can sell this access and related services for top dollar. This is pretty much the development scenario going on everywhere. One solution would be the purchase of public access easements by local or state governments. But I wouldn’t hold out much hope for this happening along the New York State boundary. Regards, Steve

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip DRC accolade This may only be a rumor, but the first time I fish the West Branch I talked to a couple of guys that implied that the owner of West Branch Angler had been prosecuted two years in a row for illegally stocking rainbows in the section of stream in front of their resort.  Apparently the fine for such an offense was about the same as a single nights stay at one of their cabins. Geez, John! I’ve not heard this rumor but…if it is only a rumor of which you know no actual facts it is unfortunate you chose to pass it along on the internet.  Such rumor publication has the potential to do unnecessary harm to the innocent. I agree that the WBA prices are stiff but on the other hand all of the employees I have interacted with have treated me very cordially and have been helpful to me. Their accomodations have been wonderfull. I have heard good things about the DRC from others and will give them a try this year. Regards, Steve Actually, neither WBA or DRC is squeaky-clean in their attempts to attract customers.  WBA’s stocking violations are fairly well known; DRC has a habit of dramatically overstating the amount of private water they have (I measured .75 miles vs. their claim of 2.5 miles), and then they’ll throw you out of the best pool (Cole’s) on a whim.  But not to worry, because all of DRC’s water and much of WBA’s water is fairly easily accessible from the New York side.  My recommendation: find a decent non-angling motel nearby and fish the entire West Branch netween Deposit and Hancock as well as the main stem below Hancock.  Neither DRC or WBA is worth the extra money or the hassle. MZ

Tell you what bugs me: maybe social degradation on the Delaware was inevitable, but it looks to me and plenty of others like the hucksters ruined the experience on the river and instigated a disturbing control mentality throughout the watershed. These guys were largely mute in the 70’s and early 80’s when the battle for adequate flows was going on. Just as soon as there was some stability they moved-in to scarf-up control and reap the profits.                         Ray

Response:

<snip DRC accolade This may only be a rumor, but the first time I fish the West Branch I talked to a couple of guys that implied that the owner of West Branch Angler had been prosecuted two years in a row for illegally stocking rainbows in the section of stream in front of their resort.  Apparently the fine for such an offense was about the same as a single nights stay at one of their cabins.

Geez, John! I’ve not heard this rumor but…if it is only a rumor of which you know no actual facts it is unfortunate you chose to pass it along on the internet.  Such rumor publication has the potential to do unnecessary harm to the innocent. I agree that the WBA prices are stiff but on the other hand all of the employees I have interacted with have treated me very cordially and have been helpful to me. Their accomodations have been wonderfull. I have heard good things about the DRC from others and will give them a try this year. Regards, Steve

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip DRC accolade This may only be a rumor, but the first time I fish the West Branch I talked to a couple of guys that implied that the owner of West Branch Angler had been prosecuted two years in a row for illegally stocking rainbows in the section of stream in front of their resort.  Apparently the fine for such an offense was about the same as a single nights stay at one of their cabins. Geez, John! I’ve not heard this rumor but…if it is only a rumor of which you know no actual facts it is unfortunate you chose to pass it along on the internet.  Such rumor publication has the potential to do unnecessary harm to the innocent. I agree that the WBA prices are stiff but on the other hand all of the employees I have interacted with have treated me very cordially and have been helpful to me. Their accomodations have been wonderfull. I have heard good things about the DRC from others and will give them a try this year. Regards, Steve

Actually, neither WBA or DRC is squeaky-clean in their attempts to attract customers.  WBA’s stocking violations are fairly well known; DRC has a habit of dramatically overstating the amount of private water they have (I measured .75 miles vs. their claim of 2.5 miles), and then they’ll throw you out of the best pool (Cole’s) on a whim.  But not to worry, because all of DRC’s water and much of WBA’s water is fairly easily accessible from the New York side.  My recommendation: find a decent non-angling motel nearby and fish the entire West Branch netween Deposit and Hancock as well as the main stem below Hancock.  Neither DRC or WBA is worth the extra money or the hassle. MZ

Response:

I heard the same rumor about the stocking, and the W. Br. Angler owner is doing his damddest to buy up and post as much of the W. Br. and also the main D below Hancock to cater to that upscale crowd you mentioned. That’s why the NYDEC bought a couple of access sites in the no-kill section. Just to get there before he did. Got this from a DEC official about the access sites.  

Response:

Question:

I have been fishing the Red River below Denison Dam for some years now and can be quite sucessful when the generators are not "on" – discharging water. An average spring morning from 6am to 8am will produce 10 to 20 small stripers averaging 12" to18". Great on a 5 to 8wt. However during the spring, the water is normally being discharged due to spring rains and this is my problem. I have never been able to consistantly catch fish with the water flowing. Under these conditions I use a 10wt sinking tip line and all the normal flies that work with the the "water off". Bait fishing with live shad or minnows is normally great during this water flow so I would expect flyrodding to be the same,-but not for me. I have a boat designed especially for flyfishing the river which is quite safe and effective.

Response:

I have been fishing the Red River below Denison Dam for some years now and can be quite successful when the generators are "off" – not discharging water. An average spring morning from 6am to 8am will produce 10 to 20 small stripers averaging 12" to 18". Great on a 5 to 8wt. However during the spring, the water is normally being discharged due to spring rains and this is my problem. I have never been able to consistantly catch fish with the water flowing. Under these conditions I use a 10wt. with fast sinking tip line and all the flies that work with the water "off". Bait fishing with live shad or minnows is normally great during this type of water flow so I would expect flyrodding to be the same,-but not for me. I have a boat designed especially for flyfishing this river which is quite safe and effective. For a picture of the boat and my son see www.2ducks.com/boats.html Would be happy to take out some experienced flyrodders that can teach me the tricks of this particular aspect of flyfishing. ANY SUGGESTIONS would be appreciated. If you think it may be my fly selection, please let me know. I commonly use clousers of all colors, all sizes, some top water poppers. I have not been able to tie the large 8" flies, but the average striper caught is <20" so I would not think this is the problem. I am not a guide, just an avid sportsman living 5 miles from the dam. Can fish 2 – 3 flyrods out of the boat at a time so bring an experianced friend if you would like. I normally can fish from 5pm to sunset weekdays, Fridays 1pm to sunset, and all day on the weekends. If we don’t catch any fish you can buy my lunch at Burger King. Water temperature is 48 and rising and the floodgates are now open. Have private access to the river.

Response:

Question:

I routinely got "compression leaks" in the feet of my waders.  I switched to boot foot waders.  I’m not sure what to do about these leaks due to the the neoprene getting compressed to the point that the inner and outer skin touch each other.  I also would be interested in how to deal with these besides throwing them out.  Also how do you prevent the feet from getting compressed? Bill A.

Response:

Neoprene compression is a problem because you stand on them all the time, and when neoprene gets compressed flat, it usually leaks.  Most companies who still use neoprene soles make them 5 mils thick to compensate for this and make them last longer.  Many of these companies will replace the foot on your waders for around $60.  Orvis uses Hypalon foam on the feet which is s foam version of the same stuff Zodiac boats are made out of, doesn’t need the extra bulk, and doesn’t suffer from this compression problem.  In fact that is the biggest reason they can offer their 4 year warranty on their waders without eating a bunch of waders.  Many other companies have followed suit, and from personal experience I highly recommend waders with Hypalon soles.  Keep repairing yours as long as is practical, but next time get waders with Hypalon soles for more durability. Dan Gracia Schools Coordinator Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

Response:

Bill, Waders with serious compression leaks in the feet can only be salvaged by sending them back to the manufacturer to have the foot portion of the wader replaced.  If you choose not to go this route, consider recycling the old waders before you throw them out.  With a razor knife you can cut up portions of the old waders to make gravel guards, knee pads, a butt pad, mouse pads for all your family…  Your question regarding prevention of compression leaks prompted me to examine the feet of my own waders. I’m 230 lbs (lots of compression!) and found some areas showing compression on 3 year old waders.  Without knowing what brand of wader you have or how often you use them, I’m not sure how to answer your question regarding prevention of compression.  I do know that all neoprene materials are not equal and the better materials are more resistant to compression.   Best wishes, Clay

Response:

:  Also how do you prevent the : feet from getting compressed? : Bill A. Bill,  Fill your pockets with helium before heading off to     your favorite pool.  That should reduce the compression on both your wader feet and your socks! :^) Charley

Response:

Are you suggesting loosing a few pounds might help? Bill A.

Response:

: Are you suggesting loosing a few pounds might help? : Bill A. Heaven’s, No, Bill.  Compensating, that’s the key.  Loosing weight has no glamour of tinkering.  Contriving to counter the weight is THE way to go! Charley

Response:

: How about this.. instead of losing weight, or injecting helium, perhaps : why not cutt off your feet?  If you do this, then there will be no : compression on the soles… of course, this would lead to other problesm, : is guess. : edwin aguilar You could also just walk on your hands…..course, you may have to hold your breath while casting with your, er, ah, ….. foot, yeah, your foot! Charley

Response:

  Contriving to counter the weight is THE way to go! Charley

I AGREE. How about this.. instead of losing weight, or injecting helium, perhaps why not cutt off your feet?  If you do this, then there will be no compression on the soles… of course, this would lead to other problesm, is guess. edwin aguilar

Response:

Thanks, Robert Yee

Response:

        Coat the effected area with Simms Seal. This is a brown or blue urethane water-based emulsion with dries so fast you can use the waders in a matter of minutes. It also adheres to the neoprene extremely well and stops leaks.

Response:

Would appreciate suggestions on how to, and what material to use, in repairingneoprene waders that have developed a small leak in the toe, appears to be a Thanks, Robert Yee

A product called ‘Aquaseal’ was recommended to me at a local tackle shop (Mel Cotton’s in San Jose).  I used it to seal up a rather large hole in the sole of my neoprene waders.  It works really well — dries up as a thick, clear rubbery seal that appears perhaps tougher than the neoprene skin itself.  Works wonders!  (Takes probably 8-12 hours or so to dry). J Smith Sunnyvale, CA

Response:

Question:

I’ve been thinking about these fly rods that are only about 6.5 feet long and wondered if any of you had any qualms about short fly-rods like I do. espescially since I was thinking about picking up a new fly-rod for teaching or at least letting other people use. Like the others said: It depends on what kind of water you fish and what type of rod you prefer.  I fish medium to large streams and use a 9 foot 5 weight.  I even use the 9 footer on rather small streams. (this is in the North East by the way)  I find that the 9 footer makes everything easier and lets me put my fly where i want it with less effort and false casting. On a small stream with alot of brush, you will not be able to make a back cast anyway; i think the 9 footer makes putting the fly where you want it easier..just my opinion Frankie

I have a 7.5 foot rod that I use on several small streams near my home. These streams are maybe 20 feet across, with very brushy steep banks and trees that form an almost complete canopy in most places. In this situation short rod is nice. With a 9 foot rod you can’t lift it high enough for a roll cast or set the hook without running into something. Everywhere else I fish I prefer a 9 footer. Jay

Response:

 If you like the 9 foot rods then stick with them.  Short rods are nice

but you can cast even with bush behind you on small streams by raising your backcast.  I know we were all taught ten to two o’clock methods, but a high backcast or a hard roll cast can get your fly to almost any hole. But if you are not worried about the money then get a shorter rod.  I would rather spend it on a good cane rod. Huber

Response:

I agree with all of you.  in the small over grown streams I find the short rod a dream.  when I am belly boating I must have a longer rod.  you mention teaching.  well i have a somewhat large fly fishing school just outside of toronto and i have found that the students can handel 8 – 9 foot rods the best.  they have trouble when i go shorter or longer. Murray Abbott.    (Murray’s Fly Fishing) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been thinking about these fly rods that are only about 6.5 feet  long and wondered if any of you had any qualms about short fly-rods like I do. espescially since I was thinking about picking up a new fly-rod for teaching or at least letting other people use. Like the others said: It depends on what kind of water you fish and what type of rod you prefer.  I fish medium to large streams and use a 9 foot 5 weight.  I even use the 9 footer on rather small streams. (this is in the North East by the way)  I find that the 9 footer makes everything easier and lets me put my fly where i want it with less effort and false casting. On a small stream with alot of brush, you will not be able to make a back cast anyway; i think the 9 footer makes putting the fly where you want it easier..just my opinion Frankie I have a 7.5 foot rod that I use on several small streams near my home. These streams are maybe 20 feet across, with very brushy steep banks and trees that form an almost complete canopy in most places. In this situation  short rod is nice. With a 9 foot rod you can’t lift it high enough for a roll cast or set the hook without running into something. Everywhere else I fish I prefer a 9 footer. Jay

Response: