Question:

You’ve never heard of George Harvey ?!?? If you fish dries with a hand-built leader, you’re probably using a Harvey leader formula. He’s one of the giants of fly fishing. If you’ve never heard of him, perhaps you should get out more. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Here in central PA we have a high regard for George.  I’m glad to hear he’s well thought of way out in Wyhoming, too. vince norris

Response:

Here in central PA we have a high regard for George.  I’m glad to hear he’s well thought of way out in Wyhoming, too.

Who do Pennsylvanians hold in higher regard – Joe Humphreys or George Harvey?

Response:

Since I was just skimming ROFF, it took me a while to realize that the G man was actually recounting an interaction with someone else named "George" when he posted the snippets included below. (snip) Primo stuff, George! I always suspected you referred to yourself in the third person .

You’ve never heard of George Harvey ?!?? If you fish dries with a hand-built leader, you’re probably using a Harvey leader formula. He’s one of the giants of fly fishing. If you’ve never heard of him, perhaps you should get out more. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

You’ve never heard of George Harvey ?!?? He’s one of the giants of fly fishing. If you’ve never heard of him, perhaps you should get out more.

‘Twas only intended as a riff on a momentary misread of a G.G. post, Rusty. But, hey, if you’re volunteering to get me out more often — especially to a happenin’ bar where the chicks are all ready to discuss George Harvey leader formulas for the price of a shot of Yukon Jack and a beer back  – I’m on the next plane to Laramie, a copy of Leader Calc on a floppy diskette in my shirt pocket and Ernie Harrison’s Blood Knot Machine on a lanyard around my neck. We’ll slay ‘em Rusty…just slay ‘em! get me to a brewery, – sid

Response:

Tom?  I only wish I could remember all the numbers and percentages he laid on me.  He had a lot to say about it.  I told Mr. G.H. I would understand it better seeing it in print. Again, like you said, Sir Harvey is a very interesting man.  I’m interested in this new idea of his also. Mr.G. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – GG describing G Harvey: George’s eyesight is failing as the clinic screwed up one eye when removing a cataracts, so he has lost some depth perception and cannot tie flies for very long before the eye strain becomes singular vision. Despite this, and other ravages of age, the man still is one of the highlights of the annual flytying symposium here in the East. Truly, one of the greats of fly fishing and tying. I will be interested to see his new thinking on leaders, as I use his older formulae for my dry fly leaders(or a cheesy approximation of them). I am not sure that S-curves should flow continuously from line through leader, as it sets up too much slack. I think his original idea, which yields a lot of slack in the last 3 feet of the leader, works quite well. However, anything this man has to say will be of interest.                               Tom L

– (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

Response:

Brutes lives!

Response:

GG describing G Harvey: George’s eyesight is failing as the clinic screwed up one eye when removing a cataracts, so he has lost some depth perception and cannot tie flies for very long before the eye strain becomes singular vision.

Despite this, and other ravages of age, the man still is one of the highlights of the annual flytying symposium here in the East. Truly, one of the greats of fly fishing and tying. I will be interested to see his new thinking on leaders, as I use his older formulae for my dry fly leaders(or a cheesy approximation of them). I am not sure that S-curves should flow continuously from line through leader, as it sets up too much slack. I think his original idea, which yields a lot of slack in the last 3 feet of the leader, works quite well. However, anything this man has to say will be of interest.                               Tom L

Response:

Since I was just skimming ROFF, it took me a while to realize that the G man was actually recounting an interaction with someone else named "George" when he posted the snippets included below. Oddly enough, the whole passage reads more believably as the Ginkster’s perpetual internal dialogue momentarily externalized for the rest of us to wonder at. When read this way, the entire post takes on the slightly narcotic quality of a daily affirmation, repeated daily in the mirror, the better to weather the slings and arrows of outrageous roffians. Primo stuff, George! I always suspected you referred to yourself in the third person . – sid – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Imagine it!?"  I told George, I just tied a complete Royal Wulff on a size #32 dry fly hook on a dare!  He chuckled and said, we must fish together this year. "I’ll see you May or June, George." "I’ll save the room for you George.  Can’t wait." "We can even tie flies together again," he offered. George’s eyesight is failing as the clinic screwed up one eye when removing a cataracts, so he has lost some depth perception and cannot tie flies for very long before the eye strain becomes singular vision. God, I love this man!  He is so precious. George

Response:

According to George Harvey, he has developed a wonderful new formula and concept for finicky trout where one would need as much slack as possible to get a long drift without drag.  George said he wrote an article on it that will be coming out soon in Flyfisherman’s Magazine.  There is a new formula he uses along with soft mono and the butt section is made of three tapering pieces and the entire leader is made from soft nylon or mono so the entire leader can be made to respond to an S-cast which now includes the entire leader besides the fly line.   Mr. Harvey called me this morning to discuss other matters, and he also owns a Bastard Bamboo which he will be using opening day next week in PA. Where he fishes, he reported that one of the large fish he has seen in the past died of natural causes.  It was measured at 32.5 inches and weighted over 12 pounds besides being a LARGE Rainbow.  A fish that, for any fly fisherman, would be a trophy of a life time.  "Imagine it!?"  I told George, I just tied a complete Royal Wulff on a size #32 dry fly hook on a dare!  He chuckled and said, we must fish together this year. "I’ll see you May or June, George." "I’ll save the room for you George.  Can’t wait." "We can even tie flies together again," he offered. George’s eyesight is failing as the clinic screwed up one eye when removing a cataracts, so he has lost some depth perception and cannot tie flies for very long before the eye strain becomes singular vision. God, I love this man!  He is so precious. George — http://www.gink.com "the saga continues"

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Question:

I picked up a fly tying kit and tied my first fly… boy.. is it ugly !!! I think I shall call it ‘Dan’s Swamp Critter’. Why wife asked what it was.. I said "a fly". She said, "I know, but all of your other fly’s look like something". Can anyone recommend a good book on tying different streamer patterns ? Thank in advance, -Dan-

Response:

Can anyone recommend a good book on tying different streamer patterns ?

        Joseph Bates, Jr.’s book on fly tying and fly fishing streamers has just be republished by Stackpole books. This is the most complete streamer pattern, history, fishing technique book on the subject.

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(snip) Starlings provide excellent dryfly wing material.  The secondaries are very good semi-translucent grey,  and are just great for upwinged dryflies.  I like to use matching pairs, one from same feather either wing of the same bird for my flies. The breast feathers of starlings make great soft hackles for wet flies, particularly spider type flies,  say Black & Peacock spider.

How about a tad more particulars on which feathers to use and how to prepare them?  Sounds like a plethera of very useful, inexpensive material here.  Specifically, what patterns of flys? — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

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Wolfie, You got that right, I went wild when I got my first Ringneck Pheasant rooster skin. I even invented a couple of flies which I still use today.  As for the Phoenix skin, the last one of those rose from the ashes along with G’s rods. Ernie

<snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The Ring Neck is the only pheasant who’s feathers are used extensively for a wide variety of patterns <snip Wolfgang still looking for a whole phoenix skin

Response:

Reading anbout fly patterns I see a lot of reference to Starling feathers.  Since Starlings are basically an overpopulation nuisance species in many locals I’m looking at buying a couple of bird houses with lift-off tops which make it easy to set a mouse trap inside. I haven’t yet gotten into tiny dry flies, so I have to ask, what do you use starling feathers for?   They’re medium sized as birds go, but they’re certainly nowhere near the size of chickens.   You have to be talking about some very small feathers.

Starlings are just great for flytying,  and so long as my .22 airrifle works,  and I throw some bread on my lawn,  I’ll always have a plentiful supply of their feathers.  I assume that the European starling is the same as the American one:  small medium blackish bird with pointy beak & greasyish sheen to feathers.  The birds waddle on the ground one foot after the other,  and not hopping at all.  The breast feathers in winter adopt a spotted appearance,  actually, the dark feathers get a pale tip to them. They are generally rowdy in garden behaviour,  and squawk unpleasantly. They sit on my roof top aerial and crap all over my roof skylight window. Starlings provide excellent dryfly wing material.  The secondaries are very good semi-translucent grey,  and are just great for upwinged dryflies.  I like to use matching pairs, one from same feather either wing of the same bird for my flies. The breast feathers of starlings make great soft hackles for wet flies, particularly spider type flies,  say Black & Peacock spider.

Response:

I haven’t yet gotten into tiny dry flies, so I have to ask, what do you use starling feathers for?   They’re medium sized as birds go, but they’re certainly nowhere near the size of chickens.   You have to be talking about some very small feathers.

Starlings are a source of feathers commonly used as a substitute for jungle cock eyes for us po folks. Wolfgang who’s yer daddy, clarice?

Response:

Hi Group A friend of mine swears by Starling feathers. Doesn’t show his flies around a lot but I’ve seen his rod bent a few times. Good price too! Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can say that again.   These sonsabitches even have me looking at roadkill, though I have thus far resisted any temptation to pull over.   My mother-in-law’s dog managed to kill a hapless possum in her yard, and my first thought was "dubbing".   God help you Bruce, and congrats. Joe F. Reading anbout fly patterns I see a lot of reference to Starling feathers.  Since Starlings are basically an overpopulation nuisance species in many locals I’m looking at buying a couple of bird houses with lift-off tops which make it easy to set a mouse trap inside. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

Response:

Mike, They are European Starlings.  Some damn fool imported them along with the English Sparrow and they have destroyed farm crops ever since.  A bunch of them even brought down an airliner.  I am glad to hear they are good for something. Ernie "Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Starlings are just great for flytying,  and so long as my .22 airrifle works,  and I throw some bread on my lawn,  I’ll always have a plentiful supply of their feathers.  I assume that the European starling is the same as the American one:  small medium blackish bird with pointy beak & greasyish sheen to feathers.  The birds waddle on the ground one foot after the other,  and not hopping at all.  The breast feathers in winter adopt a spotted appearance,  actually, the dark feathers get a pale tip to them. They are generally rowdy in garden behaviour,  and squawk unpleasantly. They sit on my roof top aerial and crap all over my roof skylight window. Starlings provide excellent dryfly wing material.  The secondaries are very good semi-translucent grey,  and are just great for upwinged dryflies.  I like to use matching pairs, one from same feather either wing of the same bird for my flies. The breast feathers of starlings make great soft hackles for wet flies, particularly spider type flies,  say Black & Peacock spider.

Response:

Holy crap!  I just tied my first fly ever!!!!!  Nothing terribly exciting…just a little ol’ sow bug.  Oh boy, this is really exciting now!!!!!!  What’s the first thing I do?  Call my lovely wife at work and ask her to kindly stop by the fly shop on her way home from work and pick up some dark dubbing and lead wire.  oooh boy oooh boy oooh boy!!! Bruce Thomsen

Response:

Congrats!  The real thrill will come when you catch a fish on a fly you tied yourself! Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Holy crap!  I just tied my first fly ever!!!!!  Nothing terribly exciting…just a little ol’ sow bug.  Oh boy, this is really exciting now!!!!!!  What’s the first thing I do?  Call my lovely wife at work and ask her to kindly stop by the fly shop on her way home from work and pick up some dark dubbing and lead wire.  oooh boy oooh boy oooh boy!!! Bruce Thomsen

Response:

Holy crap!  I just tied my first fly ever!!!!!  Nothing terribly exciting…just a little ol’ sow bug.  Oh boy, this is really exciting now!!!!!!  What’s the first thing I do?  Call my lovely wife at work and ask her to kindly stop by the fly shop on her way home from work and pick up some dark dubbing and lead wire.  oooh boy oooh boy oooh boy!!! Bruce Thomsen

…..Fade to black as voice over starts: "Sure boys and girls, it looks like fun……sounds like something you might want to try, right?  Besides, everybody else is doing it, right? Maybe just this one time.  Hey, you can quit any time you want, right? What harm can it possibly do?  It’s just recreational!  And hey, it …..Fade in on the other side of the tracks….. Hi, my name is Wolfgang…..

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…..Fade in on the other side of the tracks….. Hi, my name is Wolfgang…..

        fucking wonderful wayno

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Bruce, You’re hrerby officially hooked on flytying. Be prepared for the next stages, where everything in the house, especially pets, will be looked at as a possible source of killer dubbing/wingmaterial/whatever. Have fun! Herman, been there, and haven’t been able to loose it since. Holy crap!  I just tied my first fly ever!!!!!  Nothing terribly exciting…just a little ol’ sow bug.  Oh boy, this is really exciting now!!!!!!  What’s the first thing I do?  Call my lovely wife at work and ask her to kindly stop by the fly shop on her way home from work and pick up some dark dubbing and lead wire.  oooh boy oooh boy oooh boy!!! Bruce Thomsen

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

reads like a TA (Tiers Anonymous) add.. Herman …..Fade to black as voice over starts: "Sure boys and girls, it looks like fun……sounds like something you might want to try, right?  Besides, everybody else is doing it, right? Maybe just this one time.  Hey, you can quit any time you want, right? What harm can it possibly do?  It’s just recreational!  And hey, it …..Fade in on the other side of the tracks….. Hi, my name is Wolfgang…..

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Bruce, You’re hrerby officially hooked on flytying. Be prepared for the next stages, where everything in the house, especially pets, will be looked at as a possible source of killer dubbing/wingmaterial/whatever. Have fun! Herman, been there, and haven’t been able to loose it since.

You can say that again.   These sonsabitches even have me looking at roadkill, though I have thus far resisted any temptation to pull over.   My mother-in-law’s dog managed to kill a hapless possum in her yard, and my first thought was "dubbing".   God help you Bruce, and congrats. Joe F.

Response:

Bruce, You’re hrerby officially hooked on flytying. Be prepared for the next stages, where everything in the house, especially pets, will be looked at as a possible source of killer dubbing/wingmaterial/whatever. Have fun! Herman, been there, and haven’t been able to loose it since.    Cheers, Herman    Herman Nijland    Daytime webmaster    Lifetime flyfisher

I’m still getting my junk together, hope to start tieing sometime Christmas morning (after the presents are opened).  Herman’s comments got me to wondering abpout C&R and fly tieing.  I just acquired an Amherst neck and pair of wings (whatever the hell an Amherst is) and a Golden Pheasant skin.  Now, I’m sure the Pheasant and the Amherst thing are not running around naked in the snow.  Somebody is eating those thigs (if you eat Amherst).  Are we killing animals to C&R little fishes?  I have been given the go-ahead to dissect a full-length mink coat hanging in the closet and left over from previous management for the fur strips.  I’m going to try to use as much already dead stuff as I can that I find laying around, but it appears at some point in time the fly tier has to cause something to get killed. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

Response:

You can say that again.   These sonsabitches even have me looking at roadkill, though I have thus far resisted any temptation to pull over.   My mother-in-law’s dog managed to kill a hapless possum in her yard, and my first thought was "dubbing".   God help you Bruce, and congrats. Joe F.

Reading anbout fly patterns I see a lot of reference to Starling feathers.  Since Starlings are basically an overpopulation nuisance species in many locals I’m looking at buying a couple of bird houses with lift-off tops which make it easy to set a mouse trap inside. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

Response:

Oh, man, between my two black cats, one Russian Blue, and my sister-in-law’s Bruce Thomsen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Be prepared for the next stages, where everything in the house, especially pets, will be looked at as a possible source of killer dubbing/wingmaterial/whatever.

Response:

Reading anbout fly patterns I see a lot of reference to Starling feathers.  Since Starlings are basically an overpopulation nuisance species in many locals I’m looking at buying a couple of bird houses with lift-off tops which make it easy to set a mouse trap inside. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

You might think that this is a joke, but they actually sell that kind of bird house.  People serious about bluebirds have houses of death that attract species that compete with bluebirds and dispatch them.  For example, see the plans for a starling trap at: http://forum.purplemartin.org/newpage4.htm –Stan

Response:

Reading anbout fly patterns I see a lot of reference to Starling feathers.  Since Starlings are basically an overpopulation nuisance species in many locals I’m looking at buying a couple of bird houses with lift-off tops which make it easy to set a mouse trap inside.

I haven’t yet gotten into tiny dry flies, so I have to ask, what do you use starling feathers for?   They’re medium sized as birds go, but they’re certainly nowhere near the size of chickens.   You have to be talking about some very small feathers. Joe F.

Response:

Lissen up Qwezy, I intend to make sure you suffer along with the rest of us that are hooked on tying flies….in January I will announce the 2nd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2001, and I demand that you sign up and participate in this swap.  Once you receive your box of flies tied by some primo tyers in this bunch, you will be hooked for good and all.  I’m a newbie 5 thumbed tier meself, and nobody called out a lynching mob for my raggedy assed contribution. (yet)  So stay tuned, things are gonna get interesting for you in a few weeks. Frank (Ye Olde Gray Tired Swapmeister) Church

Oh, man, between my two black cats, one Russian Blue, and my sister-in-law’s Bruce Thomsen Be prepared for the next stages, where everything in the house, especially pets, will be looked at as a possible source of killer dubbing/wingmaterial/whatever.

—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

You might think that this is a joke, but they actually sell that kind of bird house.  People serious about bluebirds have houses of death that attract species that compete with bluebirds and dispatch them.  For example, see the plans for a starling trap at: http://forum.purplemartin.org/newpage4.htm –Stan

Stan, growing up in Newport News, VA we learned early on the Purple Martin housing and Starling competition was SERIOUS business.  Purple Martins are key players in mosquito control.  For most people in the South, Starlings are a disposable pest. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

Response:

….I just acquired an Amherst neck and pair of wings (whatever the hell an Amherst is) and a Golden Pheasant skin…..

The Lady Amherst is another variety of pheasant.  In my manic tying material acquisition phase I managed to get complete skins from 4 or 5 species of pheasant.  Most of them are quietly moldering in a box somewhere.  Each of them offers feathers for a few specific patterns, but aside from that they are just pretty to look at.  Much better to buy loose feathers for your gray ghosts, etc.  The Ring Neck is the only pheasant who’s feathers are used extensively for a wide variety of patterns.  Virtually all of them have common uses.  Of course, one can always experiment with the lovely feathers from all the others, by my own experience and that of all the other tiers I used to hang with suggests that the results will typically be a lot better for show than for catching fish.  Still, practicality has little to do with the whole process, does it?    :) Wolfgang still looking for a whole phoenix skin

Response:

Lissen up Qwezy, I intend to make sure you suffer along with the rest of us that are hooked on tying flies….

Done deal! Bruce (here kitty kitty!) Thomsen

Response:

I’ll second Franks demand. Since practice makes perfect, you improve your tying skills. You are going to half to tie 25 or 30 of a single pattern and you’re likely to see an improvement from as you go. You are going to have some excellent examples to go by. I saved all the flies that I got in the first swap (and will with the current one as well). I tied up many of the flies and fished with the replicas but saved the originals. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lissen up Qwezy, I intend to make sure you suffer along with the rest of us that are hooked on tying flies….in January I will announce the 2nd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2001, and I demand that you sign up and participate in this swap.  Once you receive your box of flies tied by some primo tyers in this bunch, you will be hooked for good and all.  I’m a newbie 5 thumbed tier meself, and nobody called out a lynching mob for my raggedy assed contribution. (yet)  So stay tuned, things are gonna get interesting for you in a few weeks. Frank (Ye Olde Gray Tired Swapmeister) Church Oh, man, between my two black cats, one Russian Blue, and my sister-in-law’s Bruce Thomsen Be prepared for the next stages, where everything in the house, especially pets, will be looked at as a possible source of killer dubbing/wingmaterial/whatever. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Waynw, Amherst is a breed of pheasant like Golden and Ringneck.  The mink coat sounds good, you are the only tier I know who is starting out with one, . Ernie "Wayne Hart" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m still getting my junk together, hope to start tieing sometime Christmas morning (after the presents are opened).  Herman’s comments got me to wondering abpout C&R and fly tieing.  I just acquired an Amherst neck and pair of wings (whatever the hell an Amherst is) and a Golden Pheasant skin.  Now, I’m sure the Pheasant and the Amherst thing are not running around naked in the snow.  Somebody is eating those thigs (if you eat Amherst).  Are we killing animals to C&R little fishes?  I have been given the go-ahead to dissect a full-length mink coat hanging in the closet and left over from previous management for the fur strips.  I’m going to try to use as much already dead stuff as I can that I find laying around, but it appears at some point in time the fly tier has to cause something to get killed. Wayne

Response:

I haven’t yet gotten into tiny dry flies, so I have to ask, what do you use starling feathers for?   They’re medium sized as birds go, but they’re certainly nowhere near the size of chickens.   You have to be talking about some very small feathers. Joe F.

Olive Biot Nymph (legs whch may or may not be utilized).  The book on fly tying I got from ezflyfish.com (your source for great fly fishing products at fair prices and superlative service) has a number of patterns using Starling feathers and silk thread (probably UK pattern origins). — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

Response:

Question:

Looking for someone familiar with saltwater flyfishing from shore in New jersey. Specifically, I need info such as equipment recommendations, and most importantly, WHERE to fish! All the sites I have found only talk about IBSP and other Northern Jersey sites in detail. Thanks in advance.

Response:

Dear Mark, Fly fishing in Jersey can be absolutely phenominal.  Between now and november we have blues, bass weaks, false albacore, flounder, etc.  Flounder and weaks will fade shortly and albies and blues will rule with bass underneath to mid-late october.  From november to ? bass and blues will be king. IBSP and North J. are not nearly your only choices.  South Jersey has some places which are great for fly rodding.  I will break it down as simple as possible North-Mid: Sandy Hook, Raritan Bay, Asbury Park (dangerous), Belmar, Lavalette, Seaside park. Mid-South, LBI N. Jetty, any bridge in back water at night, April-December, Towsends inlet, Corsons Inlet, Cape May Inlet, Cape may point.  The key with any of these spots is to get on the rocks if possible (with spikes) and work the surf edge.  Check out stripersurf.com and reel-time in message boards for reports.  Equipment: out front, jetty and surf 10′10wt or 9′10wt intermediate line, type 2,4,and 6 sinkers.  12-20lb tippet.  In backwater same if fish are big, but mostly 9′  8-9wt.will be fine same lines, current and depth dependent. Hope this helps.  Feel free to email me to discuss. Damian NuWave Tackle Innovative products designed by fishermen for fishermen Fly Tying / Rod Building Equipment, Tackle… http://www.nuwavetackle.com/

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Question:

<good story snipped I liked it a lot, Adam. Put me in mind of my favorite Sierra small stream and had me reflexively looking for my hiking boots. thanks, -sid

Response:

<snipped Keep writing stuff like that and you won’t have anyone out to get you.  Well done. Reminded me of a little spot I often go to get away from the hustle and bustle of the tourists. Warren Remember, men will come and men will go, but the streams and mountains go on forever. -Bob Carmichael

Response:

In the early morning light, long sun rays make diamond glints in the dew covered grass.

    (snip)     very well written prose, adam. wayno

Response:

Dear Adam, This is what fly fishing is about. It is not what you catch but where you catch (if you catch). And the more, this is what fly fishing in Continental Europe is about, small streams in Belgium, Northern France and Germany. No huge trout out for your fly (you are more than lucky to catch one of upto 40 cm), but to be away from it all. Marcel From The Netherlands

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the early morning light, long sun rays make diamond glints in the dew covered grass. A spruce forest edges the little meadow in deep blue-green while a sparkling tiny stream draws a shallow meandering line through the alpine valley. Undercut grassy banks border the small riffles below a plunge pool. The solitude is perfect, the setting is awesome and there is room for only one observer at a time. A small stream is enough to re-kindle the fishing flame of one’s youth every time. Creeping or low crawling through the grass, the coolness of the dew soaks into your clothes, but the focus is on a gin clear pool thirty feet ahead. The light fly rod gets caught in the grass, but you casually unhook the tip, careful to clear the rod from the tangle without making sudden movements. Unhooking the fly, stripping out enough line to make a cast to the near side of the pool, you sit up on your feet, crouching to maintain a low profile. Switching two false casts, you shoot a tight loop laying the fly line on the grass with the leader hooking into the pool. The leader is long enough to cross the pool, but you know this and have made a perfect presentation into the tail of the pool in order to not upset the wary brook trout upstream. The cast is unproductive, but that does not slow your racing pulse. A quick pick up and cast again in one smooth movement farther upstream, the caddis mimic alights like a natural. A small piece of the stream bed moves and suddenly the caddis is gone in a swirl. In the same moment, you lift the little fly rod, tightening the line. Telegraphed up the fly line, surges of the brook trout are felt through the light fly rod. Quickly playing the fish to hand, the gemstone colors of the small trout glow brightly. Releasing the trout from the barbless hook completes the act and the scurry for cover is evidence that this one is unharmed. Small stream fly fishing is gaining in popularity. The reasons are easy enough to understand. Solitude in the outdoor is at the top of the list. There are rivers to fish with many anglers if you want to share the experience. Rivers are popular fly fishing destinations and they are reflected on by all forms of the media. Small streams are out of the way, not reported on regularly and introspection, not popularity echoes here. A feeder stream, off the fishing path can provide a afternoon of quiet thoughts while experiencing the outdoors by yourself. There are no television or magazine anglers here, just you and your thoughts among the trees. Outfitting for fly fishing a small stream is a personal choice. A fly rod with a couple of flys in a film canister along with swim trunks makes things simple. On the other hand, a modern fourth generation graphite fly rod with a large arbor reel and specialized mini shooting head fly line can make decisions difficult. Hundreds of stone, caddis, and mayflys in expensive aluminum compartment fly boxes tucked in a ergonomically tailored vest, bulging with the latest gadgetry for the technically minded is another possible choice. Some use a bamboo fly rod made in the early part of the century, possibly handed down in the family. Somewhere in there lies a typical small stream fisher. We are a diverse lot, but we are looking for the same thing, peace in nature’s solitude. Light fly line weights are standard for small streams. Line weights of zero through five are generally considered an advantage when casting for wary trout. The small diameter of a light fly line combined with the light weight reduces the unwanted sight and impact when making a presentation. For small streams, fly sizes are small and wind is usually not a hinderance. A good fly rod choice will be a seven foot three weight. You can give or take a foot in length and a fly line size and still have a good choice for a rod. A small reel without a drag is all that is necessary. Equipment can be as technical or as simple as you want to make it. Fly fishing equipment is a personal choice that should match the fisher and the water being fished. Moving along on a small stream seems to come natural. Most fishing is done in an upstream manner to approach the trout from behind. Trout hold in the current to feed most of the time and their blind spot is to the rear. You need all the help that you can get when the stream is shallow, and the fish are wary of predators. This is because of the lack of deep water and structure to hide in. In order to be successful, a good creeping technique must be developed. Select earth tones for your clothes, a low profile when approaching a productive section, and as few false casts as possible. The better you become, the more your back will hurt! Headhunting, a term that is used for a fly fisher consumed by catching the largest fish does not apply here. Not that a small stream fly angler will turn their back on a large brown trout, that is exactly what some do. This is a technique used to reduce the anglers "presence" to the wary trout when rigging for the situation. The fishing attitude is one of opportunity. If a large trout is caught, it is a gift. The essence is the outdoor experience. To catch a small glistening gem and to give it back to nature, this is what small stream fishing is about. Not a quest for monster trout. On your adventure please remember this. The small stream environment is usually pristine, one single piece of trash is out of place. No impact hiking is a must, and if some trash is found, packing it out is good form. Hiking along, if another angler is present, give him or her a wide berth to minimize the intrusion. Fly fishing small streams is a return to solitude that we all need. A perfect way to enjoy the outdoors. I hope you like my story, adam

Response:

In the early morning light, long sun rays make diamond glints in the dew covered grass. A spruce forest edges the little meadow in deep blue-green while a sparkling tiny stream draws a shallow meandering line through the alpine valley. Undercut grassy banks border the small riffles below a plunge pool. The solitude is perfect, the setting is awesome and there is room for only one observer at a time. A small stream is enough to re-kindle the fishing flame of one’s youth every time. Creeping or low crawling through the grass, the coolness of the dew soaks into your clothes, but the focus is on a gin clear pool thirty feet ahead. The light fly rod gets caught in the grass, but you casually unhook the tip, careful to clear the rod from the tangle without making sudden movements. Unhooking the fly, stripping out enough line to make a cast to the near side of the pool, you sit up on your feet, crouching to maintain a low profile. Switching two false casts, you shoot a tight loop laying the fly line on the grass with the leader hooking into the pool. The leader is long enough to cross the pool, but you know this and have made a perfect presentation into the tail of the pool in order to not upset the wary brook trout upstream. The cast is unproductive, but that does not slow your racing pulse. A quick pick up and cast again in one smooth movement farther upstream, the caddis mimic alights like a natural. A small piece of the stream bed moves and suddenly the caddis is gone in a swirl. In the same moment, you lift the little fly rod, tightening the line. Telegraphed up the fly line, surges of the brook trout are felt through the light fly rod. Quickly playing the fish to hand, the gemstone colors of the small trout glow brightly. Releasing the trout from the barbless hook completes the act and the scurry for cover is evidence that this one is unharmed. Small stream fly fishing is gaining in popularity. The reasons are easy enough to understand. Solitude in the outdoor is at the top of the list. There are rivers to fish with many anglers if you want to share the experience. Rivers are popular fly fishing destinations and they are reflected on by all forms of the media. Small streams are out of the way, not reported on regularly and introspection, not popularity echoes here. A feeder stream, off the fishing path can provide a afternoon of quiet thoughts while experiencing the outdoors by yourself. There are no television or magazine anglers here, just you and your thoughts among the trees. Outfitting for fly fishing a small stream is a personal choice. A fly rod with a couple of flys in a film canister along with swim trunks makes things simple. On the other hand, a modern fourth generation graphite fly rod with a large arbor reel and specialized mini shooting head fly line can make decisions difficult. Hundreds of stone, caddis, and mayflys in expensive aluminum compartment fly boxes tucked in a ergonomically tailored vest, bulging with the latest gadgetry for the technically minded is another possible choice. Some use a bamboo fly rod made in the early part of the century, possibly handed down in the family. Somewhere in there lies a typical small stream fisher. We are a diverse lot, but we are looking for the same thing, peace in nature’s solitude. Light fly line weights are standard for small streams. Line weights of zero through five are generally considered an advantage when casting for wary trout. The small diameter of a light fly line combined with the light weight reduces the unwanted sight and impact when making a presentation. For small streams, fly sizes are small and wind is usually not a hinderance. A good fly rod choice will be a seven foot three weight. You can give or take a foot in length and a fly line size and still have a good choice for a rod. A small reel without a drag is all that is necessary. Equipment can be as technical or as simple as you want to make it. Fly fishing equipment is a personal choice that should match the fisher and the water being fished. Moving along on a small stream seems to come natural. Most fishing is done in an upstream manner to approach the trout from behind. Trout hold in the current to feed most of the time and their blind spot is to the rear. You need all the help that you can get when the stream is shallow, and the fish are wary of predators. This is because of the lack of deep water and structure to hide in. In order to be successful, a good creeping technique must be developed. Select earth tones for your clothes, a low profile when approaching a productive section, and as few false casts as possible. The better you become, the more your back will hurt! Headhunting, a term that is used for a fly fisher consumed by catching the largest fish does not apply here. Not that a small stream fly angler will turn their back on a large brown trout, that is exactly what some do. This is a technique used to reduce the anglers "presence" to the wary trout when rigging for the situation. The fishing attitude is one of opportunity. If a large trout is caught, it is a gift. The essence is the outdoor experience. To catch a small glistening gem and to give it back to nature, this is what small stream fishing is about. Not a quest for monster trout. On your adventure please remember this. The small stream environment is usually pristine, one single piece of trash is out of place. No impact hiking is a must, and if some trash is found, packing it out is good form. Hiking along, if another angler is present, give him or her a wide berth to minimize the intrusion. Fly fishing small streams is a return to solitude that we all need. A perfect way to enjoy the outdoors. I hope you like my story, adam

Response:

Question:

Right on. Al

Response:

Right on. Al

Fly" while slicing  your sandwich in two with your fillet knife. —

Question:

Karl Kortmeier, owner of Athens Fly Fishing, recently built one. He might have some advice for you. His shop number is 706-369-1797. Steve

Response:

[snip] ’scuse my ignorance, but what is a driftboat? Are you being a smart-ass?

Er, why should Bob, or anyone in a PADDLING newsgroup, know about a specialized kind of ROWBOAT?  Especially since Bob has a Mindspring address, which is in the Southeast where oar rigs are rare because those sweeps represent a serious hazard to paddlers on our small, crowded Appalachian rivers. — Richard Hopley, concise and to the point, as always. OC-1; Rockville, Maryland, USA, BBM; (301) 330-8265 Monocacy Canoe Club, Blue Ridge Voyageurs, Canoe Cruisers’ Ass’n, Greater Baltimore CC, Coastal Canoeists, Rhode Island Canoe/Kayak Ass’n, Carolina CC, Tennessee Scenic Rivers Ass’n, ACA, and AWA Note 1: To send me eMail, remove ".NoSpam" from my address Note 2: Sometimes I just forget to type that smiley-face emoticon. Note 3: Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock’n'Roll.

Response:

Another option at a cheaper price would be to contact Tom Counseller in Cedar Grove, IN.  He makes fiberglass dories(same as a drift boat, I think) and I have taken several of them down the Grand Canyon.  He made many of the boats you see on the New River.  I don’t know his prices exactly, but I can guarantee you could get a boat and trailer for less than $5000 from him.  Let me know if you would like the phone number. Dave Bassage – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – snip Bob. a drift boat is a rowing dory (lots of rocker, high sides with a raised bow and stern) designed originally to trout and salmon fish the fast water rivers out west. snip some more SYOTR Larry Thanks Larry. I’m calling Hiwassee Outfitters Monday. I’ve got the number. I tried to buy one of their used boats a couple of years ago. Their business was thriving at the time and they weren’t interested. Recently there was a flurry of fishing guides in that area with driftboats. The time may be right. I really would prefer a hardside boat to an inflatable. If all else fails, I may order a kit from Tatman Boats in Oregon. Thanks again.  Steve

Response:

I am looking to purchase a driftboat. I live in Georgia and would consider driving 500 miles max to get one.  If you know of any for sale in this area please advise. Thanks.  Steve

Response:

I am looking to purchase a driftboat. I live in Georgia and would consider driving 500 miles max to get one.  If you know of any for sale in this area please advise. Thanks.  Steve

’scuse my ignorance, but what is a driftboat? To reply by email, remove "mapson"from my edress.

Response:

I am looking to purchase a driftboat. I live in Georgia and would consider driving 500 miles max to get one.  If you know of any for sale in this area please advise. Thanks.  Steve ’scuse my ignorance, but what is a driftboat?

Are you being a smart-ass?   Cheers, Roger

Response:

I am looking to purchase a driftboat. I live in Georgia and would consider driving 500 miles max Thanks.  Steve ’scuse my ignorance, but what is a driftboat?

Bob. a drift boat is a rowing dory (lots of rocker, high sides with a raised bow and stern) designed originally to trout and salmon fish the fast water rivers out west. They are also used to run big water rivers like the New and the Grand Canyon. They are becoming increasingly popular as fishing platforms in the Southeast US tailwater fisheries. Steve, the Trout guides around the Hiwassee River in Tennessee (USA) are using Drifters these days. Try Hiwassee Outfitter (sorry, no phone #), they have them for the guide service. Are you looking for a fishing boat or something to run whitewater. Take a look at inflatable "drifters" such as the Aire Super Puma or NRS Slalom. Considerably cheaper and you don’t have to trailer them. Last time I looked at a Drift Boat they were going for about $5000!!! SYOTR Larry

Response:

snip Bob. a drift boat is a rowing dory (lots of rocker, high sides with a raised bow and stern) designed originally to trout and salmon fish the fast water rivers out west. snip some more SYOTR Larry

Thanks Larry. I’m calling Hiwassee Outfitters Monday. I’ve got the number. I tried to buy one of their used boats a couple of years ago. Their business was thriving at the time and they weren’t interested. Recently there was a flurry of fishing guides in that area with driftboats. The time may be right. I really would prefer a hardside boat to an inflatable. If all else fails, I may order a kit from Tatman Boats in Oregon. Thanks again.  Steve

Response:

Question:

Well, fortunately, I found that 1%! Thanks to everyone who’s responded so far!

Some useful information and links can be found at Aviation in BC http://www.totavia.com/BCaviation/

Response:

for places to fly, things to see, etc?

Campbell River is a nice town. They have a golf course near by and the salmon fishing is excellent…..although I am not sure about May. There are some very nice lodges. Joiner Cartwright, Jr. Houston, Texas

Response:

Hello , I have done a lot of flying in that area including my multi and instrument rides it is a beautiful area. The thing I remember most about my flying there was (actually in may) one day between Vancouver and Victoria closer to Victoria I found myself over a large group of killer whales. I was in the process of trying to build time for my next rating so I continued watching them for a while it was very beautiful. Hope you get that lucky. There are a good number of float planes around but you will never find that to be 99% maybe 30% the farther north you go you will find lots. The sights there are great and the weather not too bad.  Good luck if you have any questions I’ll try to help Rob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – From my 3 week holiday in BC, it seemed to me that 99% of light (and not-so-light) aircraft had floats. Aircraft with wheels were as rare as floatplanes are in UK. Well, fortunately, I found that 1%! Thanks to everyone who’s responded so far!  –G —  Gordon Dewis             |  WWW Virtual Library Geography Section is now at:  BA Hons Geography        |    http://www.icomos.org/WWW_VL_Geography.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all… I’m going to British Columbia at the beginning of May and I’m taking a day to do some flying out of Victoria (CYYJ).  I’ve already made arrangements for a plane from noon to dark with the obligatory check-ride in the morning.  Does anyone have any recommendations for places to fly, things to see, etc? Thanks!  –G —  Gordon Dewis             |  WWW Virtual Library Geography Section is now at:  BA Hons Geography        |    http://www.icomos.org/WWW_VL_Geography.html

From my 3 week holiday in BC, it seemed to me that 99% of light (and not-so-light) aircraft had floats. Aircraft with wheels were as rare as floatplanes are in UK. –Colin

Response:

There is an airport at Naniano, Campbell R., Port Hardy, Tofino,(Long Beach) Nice in fair weather. Also Vancouver, Pitt Meadows, Powell River, Sechelt, On the mainland. Also on the mainland side Sqaumish, 3/4 hr drive to Whistler, Pemberton, about the same to Whistler. If you have flaots you can go any place you like. Most BC air ports outside of Vancouver are not in towns but 10-15 min away, I guess due to lack of flat ground. Hoe you enjoy your visit!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all… I’m going to British Columbia at the beginning of May and I’m taking a day to do some flying out of Victoria (CYYJ).  I’ve already made arrangements for a plane from noon to dark with the obligatory check-ride in the morning.  Does anyone have any recommendations for places to fly, things to see, etc? Thanks!  –G —  Gordon Dewis             |  WWW Virtual Library Geography Section is now at:  BA Hons Geography        |    http://www.icomos.org/WWW_VL_Geography.html

Response:

Question:

-Does anyone have any info on a new disease appearing in Irish frmed salmon called Nervous Mortality Syndrome? Has it spread to any wild stock? Wild Fish First Socety C Mckee

Response:

Actually, its a hangover.

Response:

. sfeed.internetmci.com!news.mathworks.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.dire c

Question:

Can any one recommend the right size fly pole for Bass and small Stripers?                                                 Thanks!

Response:

I HAVE BEEN TOLD TO USE A 6 OR 7 WEIGHT FLY ROD .THAT IS WHAT I AM GOING TO DO THIS SUMMER 97.I CAN HARDLY WAIT. TIE YOUR OWN FLIES AND YOU WILL BE SURPRISED.

Response:

try using a 9ft boron rod…use 7wgt fwd line and use either a popping bus or a deer hair bug tied by one of the catalog co. ll bean dan baily orvis…etc

Response:

Question:

Standing up in a canoe is like anything else.  Doing it right requires practice.  I’ve done it but I don’t like to stand in a canoe.  When I was looking for the boat I have now, a kayak, I received many recommendations saying that I should get a canoe.  The main point was that I could pole a WW canoe up a shallow run when, with a kayak, I’d have to get out and wade.  They had a good point and I have had to wade some chutes that I could have poled a boat up.  However, my kayak offers many advantages for a solo paddler and I normally use it for transportation to a place and then I get out and do whatever I’m going to do. Bob — —– Bob Perkins, Director of Institutional Research and Planning Methodist College Fayetteville, NC  28311                          Office: 910-630-7037

Response:

I am considering purchasing a canoe or kayak for quick trips to the lakes, rivers and bays for fly fishing and recreation around Houston.  Most of the time I will be fishing alone, but would like to take my son or another friend at times.  Day trips only, no overnight or long journeys anticipated.   Suggestions as to canoe vs kayak and other details would be appreciated.  Size, composition, design, etc. would all be helpful.

Response:

I am considering purchasing a canoe or kayak for quick trips to the lakes, rivers and bays for fly fishing and recreation around Houston.  Most of the time I will be fishing alone, but would like to take my son or another friend at times.  Day trips only, no overnight or long journeys anticipated.   Suggestions as to canoe vs kayak and other details would be appreciated.  Size, composition, design, etc. would all be helpful.I bought a 13 foot Navarro canoe that I like a lot.  It’s pretty light

at 58 pounds, 38 inches wide with a pretty flat bottom (flattened arch is what the brochure calls it) which gives it enough initial stability that you can actually stand up in it to cast, though I don’t very often. It’s built with resin impregnated cherry wood ribs and a fiberglass skin. It’s quite pretty to look at if that’s important to you…about $900.  It’s not designed for white water but handles very nicely on lakes and slower moving water with one or two anglers aboard. E-mail me if you have any questions…We-No-Nah makes a canoe with similar configuration, size and weight.  No wood but it’s about $150 cheaper, and they also make a good canoe.  Happy hunting. Dean Henry

Response:

: I am considering purchasing a canoe or kayak for quick trips to the lakes, rivers and bays for I’ve never owned or tried a kayak, but my guess is they would not be a comfortable general-purpose fishing platform. I used to own a 12ft canoe that was absolutley great alone, but really could not handle two people. For two, I wouldn’t go smaller than 15ft. We have an Old Town Discovery 15"8", and like it alot. I handle it alone (car-top) always, and I’m a small guy; its 80lbs, but if you’re willing to spend more you can get much lighter canoes. Just go to a shop and pick up all the canoe maker’s sales booklets. These will explain different hull shapes, etc., and I think you’ll see what you want pretty quickly. If not, then talk to a salesperson. I don’t know how much time you’ve spent in boats or in canoes, but if you have no experience, you might find canoes a bit nervous. I think some people get used to it and some don’t; I’m not sure you can ever tell ahead of time. Just gotta try it, I guess. good luck, Jon Cook.

Response:

Canoe probably your best bet. Its only draw back is the extra weight. I have a poke boat which is a semi covered deck, very light, kayak like boat. Its great for getting around, but forget even kneeling in it. In a canoe you could, with care, stand to cast. I. Clair

Response:

I second the Aquaterra Keowee.  I bought the single seat model early this year and I love it.  It’s actually a pretty good fly fishing platform, but I use it mostly for getting to where I want to fish and then wading if possible.  It’s stable, lightweight, and floats in anything, but you have to sit in it, no kneeling.   Doug

Response:

David, I e-mailed you the other day, but I think I forgot to send it. Duhh! Anyway, I’ll repeat what I wrote and you can ignore this if I did send. If you are planning to take two kids along you will need a canoe. It is challenging for three people to fly fish from a canoe. You’ll have to take turns casting. If you want to have a real blast fishing solo, try a Keowee. It is a 9 foot long, 30-40 pound heavy duty plastic molded recreational kayak. No whitewater for this baby, but it is great for poking around in places that even a canoe can’t easily get into and out of. It has just enough room for a small amount of gear and is very stable – not `tippy’ like most kayaks. Once you are in, it is nearly untippable. It takes a wee while to get used to getting in and out – not a easy as a canoe – but I love mine. My fishing friend and I each have one and we just pop them on the roof racks and off we go. They are made in the U.S. by a company called Aguaterra. They make many models, so specify the Keowee. It comes in several colours, including camo I think, and costs about $300 US. I think LL Bean sells it and maybe even Eddy Bauer. I bought mine in Maine from Maine Sport near Camden. I’ve also seen it in Kittery Maine at a large outfitter (can’t remember the name) and at the LLBean store in Freeport, Maine. In New Hampshire I have seen it in Littleton at the LaHouts Sports Store. I believe I’ve seen it in the LLBean catalog. I also use a canoe sometimes and own a float tube. I enjoy them all. Have fun with whatever you end up buying. Sandy

Response:

I have something very similar – it’s a Creek Boat. It’s a one man, sit down low, fishing boat. It has a small livewell and a mounting block for a trolling motor and a foot steering system built in. Mine has oarlocks added also. Price is in the same range. It is a little lighter, but it is not indestructible. -Andy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I second the Aquaterra Keowee.  I bought the single seat model early this year and I love it.  It’s actually a pretty good fly fishing platform, but I use it mostly for getting to where I want to fish and then wading if possible.  It’s stable, lightweight, and floats in anything, but you have to sit in it, no kneeling.  

Response:

In a canoe you could, with care, stand to cast.

Careful here. That is sort of like saying "in an automobile you could, with care, enter the Pikes Peak road rally".   You’d best not stand in a canoe with a rounded bottom and no keel, such as typical for whitewater.  Pick one with a wide beam, flat or shallow vee bottom and tumblehome – wider at or just above the waterline than at the gunwales. The manufacturers offer different models for various purposes. Pick one made for fishing or cargo or family use, not whitewater or fast cruising. Mark Vinsel http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – David, I e-mailed you the other day, but I think I forgot to send it. Duhh! Anyway, I’ll repeat what I wrote and you can ignore this if I did send. If you are planning to take two kids along you will need a canoe. It is challenging for three people to fly fish from a canoe. You’ll have to take turns casting. If you want to have a real blast fishing solo, try a Keowee. It is a 9 foot long, 30-40 pound heavy duty plastic molded recreational kayak. No whitewater for this baby, but it is great for poking around in places that even a canoe can’t easily get into and out of. It has just enough room for a small amount of gear and is very stable – not `tippy’ like most kayaks. Once you are in, it is nearly untippable. It takes a wee while to get used to getting in and out – not a easy as a canoe – but I love mine. My fishing friend and I each have one and we just pop them on the roof racks and off we go. They are made in the U.S. by a company called Aguaterra. They make many models, so specify the Keowee. It comes in several colours, including camo I think, and costs about $300 US. I think LL Bean sells it and maybe even Eddy Bauer. I bought mine in Maine from Maine Sport near Camden. I’ve also seen it in Kittery Maine at a large outfitter (can’t remember the name) and at the LLBean store in Freeport, Maine. In New Hampshire I have seen it in Littleton at the LaHouts Sports Store. I believe I’ve seen it in the LLBean catalog. I also use a canoe sometimes and own a float tube. I enjoy them all. Have fun with whatever you end up buying. Sandy

VISUALLY SPEAKING, from an outsider’s point of view.  Visual Pollution is just as real as many other forms.  I imagine, to someone of your generation, fly fishing out of a kayak, to many of us would be like seeing a whale turd in a party punch-bowl.  You not only don’t like looking at it, you wouldn’t use it either.  Yet, float tubes are another matter and I cannot explain to you why.  Go for a canoe, my friend. nuff said. George Gehrke

Response:

Go with a canoe.  The Keowee is a nice platform, but its carrying capacity is limited.  I know a guy who fishes out of a sea kayak, but he paddles 2-5 times a week and normally doesn’t fly fish.  It’s theoretically possible for me to fly fish out of my Prijon Taifun (kayak), but if I’m going to fly fish I’ll use the boat to get where I’m going and then wade. Bob — —– Bob Perkins, Director of Institutional Research and Planning Methodist College Fayetteville, NC  28311                          Office: 910-630-7037

Response:

One important consideration in chosing a craft for flyfishing is comfort. I have a 16′ Greenland style kayak that I use in the ocean. I also spend some time in the surf on a sit_on_top style kayak (you wouldn’t believe how many stripers hang out in that surf). Of the two, the sit on top is probably more stable for casting and fighting fish, and is certainly a better surf boat, but it is much less efficient to paddle and for me, is very uncomfortable. The one I’ve been using, ocean kayaks ‘frenzy’, has ribs built into it to give multiple places for bracing your feet. I suppose if you are 2" shorter or taller than me it would probably be a comfortable fit, but no matter how much I adjust the seat I can’t get a comfortable fit. Thus, I can’t imagine spending a lot of time trying to cast from it. Most conventional kayaks have internal foot braces that are adjustable. So if you decide to go plastic/sit on top I’d recommend spending at least one hour sitting in the boat to see if it is comfortable for you. Casting when your legs are cramping up can be a drag.                                                         jc

Response:

I recently went through the canoe vs. kayak dilemma and settled with a kayak–a folding kayak. Although I had wanted a platform I could stand in, the seaworthiness and the portability of the folding kayak ruled out.  Obviously it’s nice to have easy access to my gear, food, etc. and even bring along someone else, but a kayak was a much better choice for me as I do most of my flyfishing is saltwater and I often travel by air to fish. The kayak I bought, a Feathercraft K Light Plus folds into a backpack and weighs only 32 pounds; it takes only 15 minutes to assemble; my rod fits under the deck bungees and I can take it out easily. The best thing is that I can take the kayak out into open ocean and not be concerned about being swamped over and I can fight a current quite easily.  I’ve been in big rips and paddled right back-up the beach to my car and fished in four foot swells–no problem. In a canoe in current I’d be swept away. I’m sure I will take it to the Everglades for redfishing and  the Keys and Bahamas for bonefishing just as I took it to Martha’s Vineyard for stripers, blues, and bonito. The kayak is fast, too.  If getting to a destination is your objective, you will expend much less energy and have more time for fishing if you use kayak rather than a canoe. As far as casting from the kayak goes it has yet to be a problem–I just keep the backcast high–no need to stand. As far as storage goes, I keep most of what I need in a waterproof deck bag and waterproof bags in the hull. Folding kayaks are not inexpensive; but for the ability to take it wherever I want to fish, it’s worth it. Good luck, Darren Lew New York, NY

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It is actually pretty hard to tip a family/fishing type canoe. The first thing you should do is go out and tip yours on purpose (or tip a demo model before you buy). Learn how it reacts, and what it takes to tip it. Do this with two people – have one stand and the other make some sudden moves.

I used to stand up while surfing waves in my Blue Hole in my wilder days of youth ;- In my experience, in most cases the canoe stays upright when someone standing in it falls out. The canoe gets "pushed out of the way" rather than capsizing, or the person loses footing and trips trying to regain it in the confines of a canoe (most come with rather small dance floors). In a wide keeled boat, this is less likely to happen, but it still is a risk. Even small jon boats exhibit this "snatch-the-rug" behavior. The pedestals in bass boats are there largely for stability; people aren’t that good at standing in small areas without something to lean on for any length of time. Try marking off a small rectangle and stand in it casting for a while without stepping outside of it. I would plan on sitting to cast most of the time. If (big if when you are as sloppy as I am) you have a nice tight loop it doesn’t need to drop below shoulder level anyway. -Andy

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writes: Canoe probably your best bet. Its only draw back is the extra weight. I have a poke boat which is a semi covered deck, very light, kayak like boat. Its great for getting around, but forget even kneeling in it. In a canoe you could, with care, stand to cast. I. Clair

Alot depends on the canoe. I have a mad river winoski that I have no problem standing in however, the tradoff for that stabality is speed. Other models are faster than my boat some are more durable, less durable, lighter or heavier. Boats vary alot in what they are designed for, you may want to take a look at rec.boats.paddle. Also get a honest idea of what you want from a boat, then go talk to a dealer that knows boats. Canoes are canoes in the same way cars are cars, if you need a pickup you will never be satisfied with a civic. Lastly, the main item that keep me away from a Poke is I need the versitility that a canoe offers. I can carry two adults ,my lab and decoys. Yet, it is not too much boat for one person to fish from solo. Charles

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David…I would recommend a canoe based on your intended use. I currently have two We-No-Nah canoes which are incredible for their intended use, the c-1 for racing and the tandem for backcountry touring. For your use a basic Coleman or Old Town would be fine, why spend the bucks for weight savings or paddling efficiency when you can get what you need for a quarter of the cost? Since you are not going to do any major carries or long distance paddling stick with the basics. By the way if you do go with a canoe I still wouldn’t advise on standing to cast. Good luck with your decision. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am considering purchasing a canoe or kayak for quick trips to the lakes, rivers and bays for fly fishing and recreation around Houston.  Most of the time I will be fishing alone, but would like to take my son or another friend at times.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – David, I e-mailed you the other day, but I think I forgot to send it. Duhh! Anyway, I’ll repeat what I wrote and you can ignore this if I did send. If you are planning to take two kids along you will need a canoe. It is challenging for three people to fly fish from a canoe. You’ll have to take turns casting. If you want to have a real blast fishing solo, try a Keowee. ……. VISUALLY SPEAKING, from an outsider’s point of view.  Visual Pollution is just as real as many other forms.  I imagine, to someone of your generation, fly fishing out of a kayak, to many of us would be like seeing a whale turd in a party punch-bowl.  You not only don’t like looking at it, you wouldn’t use it either.  Yet, float tubes are another matter and I cannot explain to you why.  Go for a canoe, my friend. nuff said. George Gehrke

So far, great responses and advice, and all is appreciated.  At this point, I will approach the purchase by several methods, all tempered with everyone’s input (even George’s – more later).  In Houston, we have REI and Sun & Ski Sports stores, as well as others that will rent kayaks and canoes.  I intend to try several.  Also, I have found several kayak and canoe clubs that give demonstrations and/or lessons.  Knowledge is a powerful tool, especially when so cheaply obtained!  To George – I not only explained to my 9 year old son the visual nuances and social faux pax of a "whale turd in a party punch bowl", but also of some peoples’ intolerance to the lifestyles of others.  Gee, I am in my mid forties with gray hair, yet you seem to believe I am some twenty year old doing an endo and scaring the trout – although whitewater kayaking is on my to-do list. Imagine the visual pollution of the first bamboo rod to a greenheart rod holder, the first fiberglass rod to a bamboo holder, the first graphite rod to a fiberglass rod holder!  Is your mode of transportation a horse, a Model T, a `57 Chevy, a bicycle, a Viper, a bus??!!?  Yet, ornithopters are another matter, and I cannot explain to you why, my friend. "Strive to leave for our children a better world, then they will do the same for theirs."     – David Hinners

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