Question:

It’s Christmas time again….. Therefore, here is my Christmas greeting card for you, as you will find at the following address since posting binaries to non-binary newsgroups isn’t allowed: http://home.online.no/~stigbye/christmas_cards/rec_outdoors_fishing_f… Cheers, Stig Arne Bye

And a Merry Christmas, Happy Solstice and all that to you and all the ROFFians, too. —   rbc:vixen,Minnow Goddess,Willow Watcher,and all that sort of thing. Often taunted by trout. Very slow on replying to email. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

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It’s Christmas time again….. Therefore, here is my Christmas greeting card for you, as you will find at the following address since posting binaries to non-binary newsgroups isn’t allowed: http://home.online.no/~stigbye/christmas_cards/rec_outdoors_fishing_f… Cheers, Stig Arne Bye

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Question:

I feel so….used…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey, I think Don might have had an ulterior motive for the question about emu feathers – he’s got them for sale on that www.canflyfish.com.au website! They’re not as nice as ostritch.     and not remotely as rare as mu feathers, which are located only in semi-baja california, and are extracted at great risk to the collector. yfitons wayno Any fly tyers out there tried Emu Feathers? Yep. Wolfgang anybody else?

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They’re not as nice as ostritch.

Sure, a simple question simply answered, and right away somebody has to go technical!      :) Wolfgang who knows that’s it’s really a matter of how much ya got to cover.

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Hey, I think Don might have had an ulterior motive for the question about emu feathers – he’s got them for sale on that www.canflyfish.com.au website!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They’re not as nice as ostritch.     and not remotely as rare as mu feathers, which are located only in semi-baja california, and are extracted at great risk to the collector. yfitons wayno Any fly tyers out there tried Emu Feathers? Yep. Wolfgang anybody else?

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Any fly tyers out there tried Emu Feathers? — Don Cantrell Cantrell Fly Fishing http://www.canflyfish.com.au Hand crafted flies, and selected fly tying materials

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Any fly tyers out there tried Emu Feathers?

Yep. Wolfgang anybody else?

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They’re not as nice as ostritch.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any fly tyers out there tried Emu Feathers? Yep. Wolfgang anybody else?

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They’re not as nice as ostritch.

    and not remotely as rare as mu feathers, which are located only in semi-baja california, and are extracted at great risk to the collector. yfitons wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any fly tyers out there tried Emu Feathers? Yep. Wolfgang anybody else?

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Question:

I just want to say thanks to all of the participants in the past weeks issues.  Listening to everyones feelings and knowing that I am not alone in my distraction.  I just need to make something!!! So its out to the shop I go to build some blanks for some new turned bowls. I also have to make a material list for the new shop addition!!!  25 X 11 for a dark humidity controled storage area. While I am changing my focus from last week’s event’s, my outrage and desire to see those responsible fry is still very strong. Well I hear some Black Walnut calling. O, I’m going to go out later and do my part to stimulate the economy. Need a new pair of hip waders. Later Tom in Oregon

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Right there with ya Tom, I made sawdust all day yesterday and didn’t miss that TV one little bit. David – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I just want to say thanks to all of the participants in the past weeks issues.  Listening to everyones feelings and knowing that I am not alone in my distraction.  I just need to make something!!! So its out to the shop I go to build some blanks for some new turned bowls. I also have to make a material list for the new shop addition!!!  25 X 11 for a dark humidity controled storage area. While I am changing my focus from last week’s event’s, my outrage and desire to see those responsible fry is still very strong. Well I hear some Black Walnut calling. O, I’m going to go out later and do my part to stimulate the economy. Need a new pair of hip waders. Later Tom in Oregon

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O, I’m going to go out later and do my part to stimulate the economy. Need a new pair of hip waders.

Yep, winter in the Northwest is quickly approaching – btw, maybe you ought to locate the shop in a hill.   — Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company Offering a shim for the Porter-Cable 557 type 2 <http://www.flybynightcoppercompany.com <http://www.easystreet.com/~onlnlowe/index.html

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One thing that I like about woodworking (or making anything else for that matter) is that it keeps me away from TV, which is a good thing IMHO (too much biased crap on TV nowadays) — replace n with s to reply — Tai Fu NAR# 76089 L1

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Well Owen, I’m in Aloha and there just ain’t no hills on my land. Looking forward to several days on the wilson river though, hoping for some decent fishing. All the while remembering those who are no longer with us. The bowl I finished yesterday was started and dated 9-11-01. I had just dated it when my wife told me what was happening in New York. Tom in Oregon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – O, I’m going to go out later and do my part to stimulate the economy. Need a new pair of hip waders. Yep, winter in the Northwest is quickly approaching – btw, maybe you ought to locate the shop in a hill.   — Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company Offering a shim for the Porter-Cable 557 type 2 <http://www.flybynightcoppercompany.com <http://www.easystreet.com/~onlnlowe/index.html

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I agree Tai. Last week end we did not listen to any broadcast TV. Just watched a bunch of movies.  Partly due to to much information and being overwhelmed by it all, but mainly needing some time to reflect and try to sort out our feelings. Tom in Oregon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One thing that I like about woodworking (or making anything else for that matter) is that it keeps me away from TV, which is a good thing IMHO (too much biased crap on TV nowadays) — replace n with s to reply — Tai Fu NAR# 76089 L1

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Question:

On the 7th and the 8th, we *will* leave early for our journey to the Credit. What time does Hortons open?  <g

At least Dave doesn’t have a net to rig up to his back And Willi, to answer your question from a another thread (which doesn’t appear on this server) i haven’t been back to the urban spring creek. I have been fishing instead on the rio grande just 30 miles upstream from my house where there’s been reports of monster browns.  These reports have left me skeptical because i’ve tried every trick in the book up there with no success until sunday.  Check this link out.  Scroll down to the bottom of "catches of the week" http://www.abqjournal.com/go/fishingline.htm The fish was more like 21" and 3.5 lbs, but still bigger than anything I’ve caught in the San Juan, or anywhere else for that matter.  The Rio Grande in that area is what i imagine steelheading to be like, ie not many strikes, but when you get a hookup, it’s a good one.  The report also says "tiny silver fly".  They asked me to show them the fly i caught the fish with.  It was a lite brite prince, size 18, tied real skinny and buggy. bruce h Submitted via WebNewsReader of http://www.interbulletin.com

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I got home, my Hardy catalogue had arrived from England and in it was a picture of a couple of guys fishing from the bank; no special gear except for a fishing rod, net, and pair of rubber boots.  There’s something to be said for keeping it simple. I think that’s especially true if you’re close enough to some water to able to fish when you can get away for only an hour or two. Spending twenty minutes getting dressed and undressed doesn’t work too well. One of the things I do is to keep a rod rigged up. I made a case from a piece of PVC piping lined with some foam pipe insulation. The end has a notch cut into it that the reel slips into and which holds the rod in place. I just hook the fly into the hook keeper, break down the rod rell in the slack and slide the rod into the case. Pull it out and you’re ready to go. In the summer I wade wet, but I’m looking into a pair of boot footed hippers. Easier than waders, boots, gravel guards etc. Willi

– Trust my experience.  Hip Waders come in only one size.  A quarter inch too short.  Stick to the wet wading. IF you do get the hips waders, make sure they have felt bottoms with studs.   (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yesterday after work, I stopped at the Burnhamthorpe parking lot to put in a couple of hours of fishing on the Credit.  This involved planning the previous evening to pack up everything I would need and loading the truck.  Then on arrival, strip off my work clothes and pack them away, pull on assorted longjohns, sock systems, kangaroo, quick dry pants, waders, boots, gravel guards, wading jacket, wader belt, hat, fingerless gloves, camera, vest, fly boxes, tippet, then rig up the rod.  — The couple of hours available for fishing already had a 20 minute dent in it I still wasn’t at the water. When I got home, my Hardy catalogue had arrived from England and in it was a picture of a couple of guys fishing from the bank; no special gear except for a fishing rod, net, and pair of rubber boots.  There’s something to be said for keeping it simple. Peter

Yes there is.  Simple = good, IMO. I love my stockingfoot hip boots.  They take up practically no room, are lightweight, cooler than chest waders and suffice rather nicely on most of the creeks I fish.  I’ve been a hip wader user for many years, though, so I’m used to being careful about my depth on bigger water. I’ve also done lots of wet wading in sandals and shorts with minimal tackle–nothing more than I could fit into a pocket or two. Think minimalist.  Consider everything other than rod, reel, leader, tippet, flies and flask as luxury items.  Rubber boots and a net sounds like a deal to me.  Don’t forget your Ketchum Release <g. Tom G minimalist angler on numerous occassions

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And Willi, to answer your question from a another thread (which doesn’t appear on this server) i haven’t been back to the urban spring creek. I have been fishing instead on the rio grande just 30 miles upstream from my house where there’s been reports of monster browns.  These reports have left me skeptical because i’ve tried every trick in the book up there with no success until sunday.  Check this link out.  Scroll down to the bottom of "catches of the week" http://www.abqjournal.com/go/fishingline.htm The fish was more like 21" and 3.5 lbs, but still bigger than anything I’ve caught in the San Juan, or anywhere else for that matter.  The Rio Grande in that area is what i imagine steelheading to be like, ie not many strikes, but when you get a hookup, it’s a good one.  The report also says "tiny silver fly".  They asked me to show them the fly i caught the fish with.  It was a lite brite prince, size 18, tied real skinny and buggy.

Nicw fish. Some details.  How big of a river is it?  Was it low and clear this time of year? Is this down stream from the canyon? Have you fished the canyon? Willi

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Thanks Warren,

No problem. When does runoff start up there?

Sometime in May is normal.  It depends on what river as to what part of May.  The tailwaters dirty the slowest, and the Yellowstone seems to get it first if I remember correctly.  The Gallatin goes next and then the Madison. — Warren Findley "The vice or virtue of any form of angling lies not in the method but in the man." Author Hugh Falkus

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Once again I’m responding to a question from Willi that hasn’t yet shown up on this server. Bruce, Send me your email address. your post, I doubt he would have been able to send his email to you <g

Thanks Warren, When does runoff start up there? Willi

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This!  Is a man that KNOWS! was a picture of a couple of guys fishing from the bank; no special gear except for a fishing rod, net, and pair of rubber boots.  There’s something to be said for keeping it simple. Peter GEAR….you gotta have GEAR!  Once you have GEAR you always need MORE GEAR and to use it you need fly tying STUFF!  Once you get STUFF you never have what you need and you are always on the lookout for more STUFF!! Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine! Submitted via WebNewsReader of http://www.interbulletin.com

– (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

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Once again I’m responding to a question from Willi that hasn’t yet

shown up on this server. Bruce, Send me your email address.

your post, I doubt he would have been able to send his email to you <g Warren

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Once again I’m responding to a question from Willi that hasn’t yet shown up on this server. Willi, I’ve fished the canyon of the Rio (the NM part).  Up near the CO border, it’s like a typical large-ish beautiful freestoner, with very little fishing pressure.  There’s miles of water and access is difficult. I caught the big brown about 100 miles downstream, in an area that we never formerly thought would hold trout because we assumed that no trout would survive the summer.  But it is a tailwater, as Cochiti Resevoir is located on the Rio about 40 miles upstream of Albuquerque, and we fish about 10 river miles down from the dam.  Apparently the water’s warm enough within the first 15 miles or so down from the dam.  I know now that there are really big browns in there. The river below Cochiti is mostly wide, sand and gravel, with big riffles like the Madison near Ennis.  That’s about the only similarity to the madison of course.  The water is mostly thigh deep, the river is about 100 yards wide mostly.  There are a few deep runs below the narrower riffles, and that’s where the big browns are I think.  I say "I think" because I’ve now been there five times and gotten a total of one strike that I know of.  It’s just that the one strike produced the best fish I’ve ever caught.  I think even Angie, the queen of spey, might say "nice fish" but probably not Yesterday afternoon I went back and got skunked like usual.  There were tiny brown mayflies galore but no rising fish nor were there any visible fish.  Oh well.  The SJ water just went yucky, everything else down here is in runoff mode, so maybe I’ll go back to the RIO tomorrow. bruce h Submitted via WebNewsReader of http://www.interbulletin.com

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Once again I’m responding to a question from Willi that hasn’t yet shown up on this server.

Bruce, Send me your email address. Willi

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When I got home, my Hardy catalogue had arrived from England and in it was a picture of a couple of guys fishing from the bank; no special gear except for a fishing rod, net, and pair of rubber boots.  There’s something to be said for keeping it simple.

Of course, fishing catalogue photos aren’t necessarily representative of reality, either.   Truth is probably somewhere in between.   You could get by with less, the guys in the photo would need more to fish where you do. Joe F.

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When I got home, my Hardy catalogue had arrived from England and in it was a picture of a couple of guys fishing from the bank; no special gear except for a fishing rod, net, and pair of rubber boots.  There’s something to be said for keeping it simple.

I think that’s especially true if you’re close enough to some water to able to fish when you can get away for only an hour or two. Spending twenty minutes getting dressed and undressed doesn’t work too well. One of the things I do is to keep a rod rigged up. I made a case from a piece of PVC piping lined with some foam pipe insulation. The end has a notch cut into it that the reel slips into and which holds the rod in place. I just hook the fly into the hook keeper, break down the rod rell in the slack and slide the rod into the case. Pull it out and you’re ready to go. In the summer I wade wet, but I’m looking into a pair of boot footed hippers. Easier than waders, boots, gravel guards etc. Willi

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Yesterday after work, I stopped at the Burnhamthorpe parking lot to put in a couple of hours of fishing on the Credit.  This involved planning the previous evening to pack up everything I would need and loading the truck.  Then on arrival, strip off my work clothes and pack them away, pull on assorted longjohns, sock systems, kangaroo, quick dry pants, waders, boots, gravel guards, wading jacket, wader belt, hat, fingerless gloves, camera, vest, fly boxes, tippet, then rig up the rod.  — The couple of hours available for fishing already had a 20 minute dent in it I still wasn’t at the water. When I got home, my Hardy catalogue had arrived from England and in it was a picture of a couple of guys fishing from the bank; no special gear except for a fishing rod, net, and pair of rubber boots.  There’s something to be said for keeping it simple. Peter

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Last night I rummaged around the basement, looking for ways to do this better.  I found an old rod tube that’ll help with the rigging problem and I dug out  my neoprene stocking foot hippies.  That still leaves me with boots and gravel guards but the clothes changing part is now history.  For an hour’s worth of fishing on the Credit, a pair of insulated rubber boots and a jacket with a couple of big pockets are all that’s really necessary.  Always an excuse to buy more stuff, eh?

What you really need, Peter, is a horse and a telescoping fly rod. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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On the 7th and the 8th, we *will* leave early for our journey to the Credit. What time does Hortons open?  <g Dave

No worries, all Timmies are 24/7/365 Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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was a picture of a couple of guys fishing from the bank; no special gear except for a fishing rod, net, and pair of rubber boots.  There’s something to be said for keeping it simple. Peter

GEAR….you gotta have GEAR!  Once you have GEAR you always need MORE GEAR and to use it you need fly tying STUFF!  Once you get STUFF you never have what you need and you are always on the lookout for more STUFF!! Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine! Submitted via WebNewsReader of http://www.interbulletin.com

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One of the things I do is to keep a rod rigged up. I made a case from a piece of PVC piping lined with some foam pipe insulation. The end has a notch cut into it that the reel slips into and which holds the rod in place. I just hook the fly into the hook keeper, break down the rod rell in the slack and slide the rod into the case. Pull it out and you’re ready to go. In the summer I wade wet, but I’m looking into a pair of boot footed hippers. Easier than waders, boots, gravel guards etc. Willi

Last night I rummaged around the basement, looking for ways to do this better.  I found an old rod tube that’ll help with the rigging problem and I dug out  my neoprene stocking foot hippies.  That still leaves me with boots and gravel guards but the clothes changing part is now history.  For an hour’s worth of fishing on the Credit, a pair of insulated rubber boots and a jacket with a couple of big pockets are all that’s really necessary.  Always an excuse to buy more stuff, eh? Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Petah writes: Yesterday after work, I stopped at the Burnhamthorpe parking lot to put in a couple of hours of fishing on the Credit.  This involved planning the previous evening to pack up everything I would need and loading the truck.  Then on arrival, strip off my work clothes and pack them away, pull on assorted longjohns, sock systems, kangaroo, quick dry pants, waders, boots, gravel guards, wading jacket, wader belt, hat, fingerless gloves, camera, vest, fly boxes, tippet, then rig up the rod.  — The couple of hours available for fishing already had a 20 minute dent in it I still wasn’t at the water.

On the 7th and the 8th, we *will* leave early for our journey to the Credit. What time does Hortons open?  <g Dave

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Question:

What size tippet are you using, and what knot are you using to tie on your fly?  I fish for bass and panfish with a 5X tippet and do fine (bluegill up to maybe 6 inches, bass to about 15 inches).  Used to lose a lot of flies before I switched from an improved clinch knot to a Duncan loop/Uniknot – since then I haven’t had problems with losing flies.  Hope this helps. — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Help, I am an intermediate fly fisherman who is used to catching pan fish.  Lately I have been doing a little better but am having trouble sacrificing my fly  to the God of fish.  Is there a good techniqe out there for running drag on a fairly light rig when catching a big fish.  I have been using the palm of my right hand to self adjust the drag once the fish is on but seem to have a heavy touch.  Any advice? thanks.

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Help, I am an intermediate fly fisherman who is used to catching pan fish.  Lately I have been doing a little better but am having trouble sacrificing my fly  to the God of fish.  Is there a good techniqe out there for running drag on a fairly light rig when catching a big fish.  I have been using the palm of my right hand to self adjust the drag once the fish is on but seem to have a heavy touch.  Any advice? thanks.

Hi Sky, I set the drag just heavy enough to keep the reel from back lashing or over running when I quickly pull some line off the reel. I then add more drag or resistance with my fingers on the fly line or use the rim control drag. I would then be sure that you have the right size tippet to match your fly size. Make sure that your leader/tippet is fresh and your knots are good. For #10, 12 & 14 dries I would use 5x tippet. For #16, 18 & 20 I would use 6x tippet.(7x later) For #8, 10 & 12 wet flies and nymphs I would use 3x tippet. For #14, 16 & 18 wet flies and nymphs I would use 4x tippet.(5x later) This is a chart I give to anglers that are just getting started. It is just for a rough guide and to get them thinking about using different size tippets with different size flies. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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Breakoffs are the result of both reel drag and rod flex at the tip. A slower rod ie more flexible acts as a shock absorber to the fishes sudden movements and cushions the leader and light tippet. The drag is for breaking the fish’s runs (longer distance moves). I don’t know many fisherman that can use the old palm drag technique without just a little too much pressure just for a split secound that gives the fish your fly. Many reels have good drags like Lamson and Abel (and Cortland etc for the cheaper ones) I like the Bauer and other large arbor reels because their drag is the smoothest and most adjustable. I also have a Rhyle (sp?) which is resonably expensive and the drag is terrible. You keep having to reset it with a fish on. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Help, I am an intermediate fly fisherman who is used to catching pan fish. Lately I have been doing a little better but am having trouble sacrificing my fly  to the God of fish.  Is there a good techniqe out there for running drag on a fairly light rig when catching a big fish.  I have been using the palm of my right hand to self adjust the drag once the fish is on but seem to have a heavy touch.  Any advice? thanks.

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You’ll probably get  a response from TimW, Halfordian Golfer on this one… He’s the one that usually works in drag in this NG…. #:)#

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Help, I am an intermediate fly fisherman who is used to catching pan fish.  Lately I have been doing a little better but am having trouble sacrificing my fly  to the God of fish.  Is there a good techniqe out there for running drag on a fairly light rig when catching a big fish.  I have been using the palm of my right hand to self adjust the drag once the fish is on but seem to have a heavy touch.  Any advice? thanks.

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I am an intermediate fly fisherman who is used to catching pan fish.  Lately I have been doing a little better but am having trouble sacrificing my fly  to the God of fish.  Is there a good techniqe out there for running drag on a fairly light rig when catching a big fish.  I have been using the palm of my right hand to self adjust the drag once the fish is on but seem to have a heavy touch.  Any advice?

You are obviously holding harder than you need. Have a look at books on Pennsylvania fly fishing for trout, where tiny flies require light leaders, e.g. Ed Koch’s Fishing the Midge (1972).  There is a consensus there that even with big fish (say 5 lb.) the rod and guides provide about as much drag as the tippet can endure, depending on how high up you point the rod and how much the rod bends.  For this fishing, reel drag is minimal, i.e. just enough to prevent overrun. I.e. drag depends on the bend of the rod more than the resistance of the reel.  You even see this on salmon rivers where fish run 20 lb.  Reel drag setting is secondary to making the bend of the rod tire out the hooked fish. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Help, I am an intermediate fly fisherman who is used to catching pan fish.  Lately I have been doing a little better but am having trouble sacrificing my fly  to the God of fish.  Is there a good techniqe out there for running drag on a fairly light rig when catching a big fish.  I have been using the palm of my right hand to self adjust the drag once the fish is on but seem to have a heavy touch.  Any advice? thanks.

A top quality fly reel will have an excellent, working drag.  I use Penn International reels…great drag, great reel, expensive but worth it if you hook lots of big fish. — Don Jordan "The Real Indiana Jones" http://realindy.com

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Question:

There are two schools of thought on this: !.  Too many guides restrict the rod’s action. 2. Too few guides allow the line to drag against the rod when it flexes. Take your pick. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail GO TO http://users.ccnet.com/~emh FOR TRAVEL TIE BOX PLANS Hi there! I am building a 7 foot 2-3wt st.croix rod. The problem is that I have found 2 different guide spacing charts for 7 footers. One used 8 guides the other 9. Which one should I use? Jarkko —

—                                             |    Jarkko Karvinen                            |    Student of biochemistry                    |  E. coli happens  University of Turku, Finland               |    tel. +358 (0)2 3338059                        |

— – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am building a 7 foot 2-3wt st.croix rod. The problem is that I have found 2 different guide spacing charts for 7 footers. One used 8 guides the other 9. Which one should I use?<BR The general rule of thumb is one guide for every foot plus the stripper, so 8 is the general rule of thumb.  One thing you might try is to tape the guides on with both the spacing for the 9 guides and the 8 guides and them string a line trhough them and see how the rod flexes.  Basically, the more guides the more friction.  But fewer is not better either – find a hapy medium by flexing the rod with line through the guides and make sure there are no dead spotsor places where the line touches the rod. Or – you might try calling St Croix.  I bet they would give you the guide spacing they use on the factory rod. Al Manchester, NH

      I know you are not the original poster but he may read this. I have an 8′ 8wt, a 7′6" 3wt and a 6′6" 5wt. The question gave me food for thought so I counted the guides on each, they all have 8, stripper included. with the exception of stripper and tip-top are all snake guides, all are factory. I also looked up the guide kits all are 8 guide.                                                              John Popp                                                           in Sanford Fl.

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I know you are not the original poster but he may read this. Ihave an 8′

8wt, a 7′6" 3wt and a 6′6" 5wt. The question gave me food forthought so I counted the guides on each, they all have 8, stripperincluded. with the exception of stripper and tip-top are all snakeguides, all are factory. I also looked up the guide kits all are 8guide. I don’t doubt that all your rods in various lengths have the same amount of gudes.  This is a subjuect that is debated as much as anythng in fly fishing. As I said "the general rule of thumb" is one per foot plus a stripper guide. Many manufacturers leave a guide or two off to save money, some rods cast better with fewer or more guides. There are a couple of ways to determine guide spacing.  Clemens and Anglers Work Shop as well as some otheres I would guess sell a tool that will allow you to test the spacing of the guides with the rod under load.  There is a program that Cane rod builders use that was written by Wayne Catanach that calculates the spacing based on the number of guides you choose and the placement of the stripper guide.  Several books list guide placement charts as well, and Blue Ridge Rod Company includes a very good one in their catalog. I personally have always used the 1 guide per foot plus the stripper for my rods.   In Skip Morris’s book "The Custon Graphite Rod" and in Handcrafting Custom Graphite Fly Rods" by L.A. Garcia, this is the information that they provide, although the spacings are a bit different and Skip Morris provides some good insight as to the actuual placement of guides based on the rod and the fishermam it is intended for, as well as some general guide lines for placement of guides on soft and fast action rods.  It is interesting reading. The mark of a true custom rod may be going to the extra step of testing the guide placement with the rod under stress.  I have done this a few times but the standard guide placements on the graphite rods I have built have all been so close that I dont worry about it any more. It’s an interesting debate for rod builders.  Could you tell me where you looked up the guide kits for these rods?  Might just be a catalog I am missing:))))) Al Manchester, NH

Response:

Hi there! I am building a 7 foot 2-3wt st.croix rod. The problem is that I have found 2 different guide spacing charts for 7 footers. One used 8 guides the other 9. Which one should I use? Jarkko —                                             |    Jarkko Karvinen                            |    Student of biochemistry                    |  E. coli happens  University of Turku, Finland               |    tel. +358 (0)2 3338059                     |

Response:

I am building a 7 foot 2-3wt st.croix rod. The problem is that I have found 2

different guide spacing charts for 7 footers. One used 8 guides the other 9. Which one should I use?<BR The general rule of thumb is one guide for every foot plus the stripper, so 8 is the general rule of thumb.  One thing you might try is to tape the guides on with both the spacing for the 9 guides and the 8 guides and them string a line trhough them and see how the rod flexes.  Basically, the more guides the more friction.  But fewer is not better either – find a hapy medium by flexing the rod with line through the guides and make sure there are no dead spotsor places where the line touches the rod. Or – you might try calling St Croix.  I bet they would give you the guide spacing they use on the factory rod. Al Manchester, NH

Response:

Hi there! I am building a 7 foot 2-3wt st.croix rod. The problem is that I have found 2 different guide spacing charts for 7 footers. One used 8 guides the other 9. Which one should I use? Jarkko

I don’t know how prevelent St Croix rods are in Finland, but your best bet would probably be to find an assembled rod from the manufacturer and copy their guided size and placement. There are some rod shop owners on this group, maybe one of them can measure it for you if you can’t find the rod in your area. Good luck,      - Ken

Response:

Hi there! I am building a 7 foot 2-3wt st.croix rod. The problem is that I have found 2 different guide spacing charts for 7 footers. One used 8 guides the other 9. Which one should I use?

Jarkko, here’s the spacing (and 7 Fuji guides) that I use on a 7ft fly rod. Note that the last (8mm2) is a 2-footed guide, the rest are single foot guides, and the measurements are in inches starting from the tip. If I recall, I got these recommendations from L.G. Custom Tackle (G. Loomis dealer and custom rod builder) many years ago. IMHO I think 9 guides is way too many for anything under 8′. I prefer the single footed Hardloy or SIC Fuji’s to the traditional snake guides which allow the line to slap against the blank. 7′ – 4(6mm), 9(6mm), 15(6mm), 22(7mm), 30(7mm), 40(8mm), 52(8mm2) Now you have 3 choices David E. Malone All opinions expressed are my own.

Response:

Question:

Of course, I haven’t fished California that often at all.  Maybe twice in my life.  Your trails are just too chucked full of broken rods.  ;)    - Just kiddin, just kiddin!

That’s cuz when we break a rod, we just Chuck it! Charley

Response:

Gosh, but it works for me just fine.  Your bushes are THAT thick there, huh?  I never find it probable enough to change directions with ‘that many’ hang-ups Charlie.  I frankly would rather do it this way than stumble forward onto a rod or jamming the tip into exactly what you don’t like . . . thick bushes.  What I do, if and when on those rare occassions it IS that thick, is the rod simply is dangling on my finger-tips.  It it hangs up it pulls enough for me to stop immediately and wiggle it loose.

I almost always carry mine with rod tip trailing, with a loose grip, for the same reasons GG mentions.  If the brush is very thick and the trail meanders (like willow thickets), I somtimes carry the rod pointing straight up.  I rarely carry it tip first; too easy to snap a rod.  Also, when traveling on a hillside, the rod should always be carried on the downhill side.  That way, if your feet slide out from under you, you won’t fall on your rod and ruin your day. Charlie Quinton

Response:

Always walk down a trail with your rod butt in your hand and your rod trailing after. It is then a simple matter to unhook your upper fly and bingo! You already have enought line to cast and feed out. Mr. Gink

George,         I was with you right up to here.  In the pacific north west and California, it’s just too damn brushy for this.  I always carry my rod so I can see the tip and keep it out of trouble.  Invariably, when I try to trail it behind an eye or the line catches on a branch, and I end up retracing my steps to get it unwound.  Nice theory, haven’t gotten it to work here. Charley

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Always walk down a trail with your rod butt in your hand and your rod trailing after. It is then a simple matter to unhook your upper fly and bingo! You already have enought line to cast and feed out. Mr. Gink George,         I was with you right up to here.  In the pacific north west and California, it’s just too damn brushy for this.  I always carry my rod so I can see the tip and keep it out of trouble.  Invariably, when I try to trail it behind an eye or the line catches on a branch, and I end up retracing my steps to get it unwound.  Nice theory, haven’t gotten it to work here. Charley

thick there, huh?  I never find it probable enough to change directions with ‘that many’ hang-ups Charlie.  I frankly would rather do it this way than stumble forward onto a rod or jamming the tip into exactly what you don’t like . . . thick bushes.  What I do, if and when on those rare occassions it IS that thick, is the rod simply is dangling on my finger-tips.  It it hangs up it pulls enough for me to stop immediately and wiggle it loose.  I simply just don’t get hung up that often Chuck to worry about it.  Of course, I haven’t fished California that often at all.  Maybe twice in my life.  Your trails are just too chucked full of broken rods.  ;)    - Just kiddin, just kiddin!

Response:

I have to admit, I’m in the ‘hold the rod forward’ school myself…I have read and been told that this is not the best way, but when I tally the thing behind me, I always ball it up on the bushes like Charley.   TimW – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Always walk down a trail with your rod butt in your hand and your rod trailing after. It is then a simple matter to unhook your upper fly and bingo! You already have enought line to cast and feed out. Mr. Gink George,         I was with you right up to here.  In the pacific north west and California, it’s just too damn brushy for this.  I always carry my rod so I can see the tip and keep it out of trouble.  Invariably, when I try to trail it behind an eye or the line catches on a branch, and I end up retracing my steps to get it unwound.  Nice theory, haven’t gotten it to work here. Charley thick there, huh?  I never find it probable enough to change directions with ‘that many’ hang-ups Charlie.  I frankly would rather do it this way than stumble forward onto a rod or jamming the tip into exactly what you don’t like . . . thick bushes.  What I do, if and when on those rare occassions it IS that thick, is the rod simply is dangling on my finger-tips.  It it hangs up it pulls enough for me to stop immediately and wiggle it loose.  I simply just don’t get hung up that often Chuck to worry about it.  Of course, I haven’t fished California that often at all.  Maybe twice in my life.  Your trails are just too chucked full of broken rods.  ;)    - Just kiddin, just kiddin!

Response:

Two comments: 1. Rain forests of Pacific Northwest sometimes limit this method when bushwacking to the next pool. I often have to take the rod down to avoid breakage when working through foilage with jungle like characteristics. This applies to about 5% of my fishing. Otherwise it works. 2. DO NOT BEND THE END OF THE ROD when doing this. You can break it. There is a tendancy to pull the line from the reel end when hooking the guide. Rather one should pull the line straight out from the tip. Next time you have a fish on (or are snagged) look at the last foot or so of your rod. You will notice it is straight, while the rest of the rod bends. B.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Going to move to a different fishing location? Or walk down a trail with your flyline? Here is a tip on how to string up your leader and flyline for travel. Take the fly and do not hook it on the fly guide. This is a waste of time. Rather, take your fly and hook it about two or three guides below the Rod Tip. Bring your hand back on the loop and and loop your leader/flyline around the reel housing and then reel up the remaining slack. What this does, when done correctly is keep your leader out of the tip guide. Here is how it should look. Your fly line comes out of the tip, changes into your leader which goes directly down to and around your reel and back up to your fly which is hooked in a guide up near your rod tip. Always walk down a trail with your rod butt in your hand and your rod trailing after. It is then a simple matter to unhook your upper fly and bingo! You already have enought line to cast and feed out. Mr. Gink

Hi George, I’ve used this system for years and you are right it’s a great way transport a "rigged rod."  Also it keeps you, your friends, or clients from ending up with a fly hook snagged in the carry hand.  I can’t tell you the number of time each year I get to remove hooks from clients hands who chose to use the hook keeper rather than the system you suggest. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Response:

Going to move to a different fishing location? Or walk down a trail with your flyline? Here is a tip on how to string up your leader and flyline for travel. Take the fly and do not hook it on the fly guide. This is a waste of time. Rather, take your fly and hook it about two or three guides below the Rod Tip. Bring your hand back on the loop and and loop your leader/flyline around the reel housing and then reel up the remaining slack. What this does, when done correctly is keep your leader out of the tip guide. Here is how it should look. Your fly line comes out of the tip, changes into your leader which goes directly down to and around your reel and back up to your fly which is hooked in a guide up near your rod tip. Always walk down a trail with your rod butt in your hand and your rod trailing after. It is then a simple matter to unhook your upper fly and bingo! You already have enought line to cast and feed out.

Two comments: – check the reel foot before you do this – many have quite sharp corners and will definitely eat into the leader. All of my CFO’s (which use a machined reel foot) needed a light touchup with a bit of sandpaper to take the edge off them (most of my Hardy’s needed a similar buffing job). – most flyfisherpeople I know have been doing this for decades… Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.       Alpha Server Engineering < < Parker Street Campus            Maynard, Massachusetts   < <        Charter Member of "Curmudgeons Unlimited"       < <<<<<<<<<<<< AMA 548313 <<<<<<<<<<<< Disclaimer: Opinion and content is mine alone, and unlikely             to be shared by my employer, etc…

Response:

Going to move to a different fishing location? Or walk down a trail with your flyline? Here is a tip on how to string up your leader and flyline for travel. Take the fly and do not hook it on the fly guide. This is a waste of time. Rather, take your fly and hook it about two or three guides below the Rod Tip. Bring your hand back on the loop and and loop your leader/flyline around the reel housing and then reel up the remaining slack. What this does, when done correctly is keep your leader out of the tip guide. Here is how it should look. Your fly line comes out of the tip, changes into your leader which goes directly down to and around your reel and back up to your fly which is hooked in a guide up near your rod tip. Always walk down a trail with your rod butt in your hand and your rod trailing after. It is then a simple matter to unhook your upper fly and bingo! You already have enought line to cast and feed out. Mr. Gink

Response:

Question:

You should really do your homework befor going to the devils river. Legally, your cannot step on the streambed due to mexican land grants. You might wan’t to check out the water temperatures as well. Jeff goodwin **  Ashley Laurent,Inc. **  Software Development  **     Consulting          ** *                                   *                                         * * 10,000 Research Blvd, Suite 128   *     voice: 512-478-0776                 * * Austin, Texas 78759               *     fax  : 512-478-0803                 * *                                   *                                         * * Microsoft Solution Provider       *     Complete Systems Design/Development * * OS/2 Premier Developer            *     Workflow and Workgroup Solutions    * * Novell Professional Developer     *     Industrial Appl./Device Drivers     * – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m heading to Texas in late March to flyfish for smallmouth on Devil’s River.  I’ve never been there before, nor have I done much fly-fishing for smallmouth.  Can anyone recommend flies or provide any other useful advice?  I was thinking of just tying some muddlers and wooly buggers, and maybe some ghosts.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Response:

Ashley: I live in south-central Texas and have fished the Devil’s on several occasions. Right now the river is going to be low because of the drought along the border. Generally speaking the best source of information is probably from Jim Kuper at The Tacklebox Outfitters in San Antonio, Tx. Jim is knowledgeable about floating the Devil’s from Baker’s Crossing to Lake Amistad. Contact Jim at (210) 821-5806. As I said, I’ve fished the Devil’s several times over the last 3 years. Because of the draught each year seems to get worse. Last summer I decided not to go back until the draught broke… I’m still waiting. DNW

Response:

Question:

Hi Mike, Good to meet you. As you can see I changed the subject line, mostly out of pity for Kauffman’s who took more of a pounding than I intended.  I was miffed at them for the Ross reel deal, and for the "ambience" I and several others noticed there.  They were an example of the moment and not really the topic. Hmm, not sure what this means…it isn’t a business philosophy by the way, just a mild rant at wannabes without sufficient motivation to pursue the knowledge and skills necessary to fish well on their own…meaning self study, (flyfishing has one of the oldest and most extensive literary traditions of any of our contemporary outdoor sporting endeavors) or participating in the plethora of schools, clinics and clubs available.  

I don’t have a snappy come back for that.  You have a point that probably serves a particular class of flyfisher.  I would ask your indulgence in that I really ain’t met many ‘o them thar book larned experts out in the stream.  I musta been too bizzy buckin’ hay that day.  Ok, mea culpa. I’m the guy you are referring to.  I never spent a day in the library I could spend on the water.  I prefer lessons over coffee (in the morning) or with a beer (well, mornings too, if the mood takes me) with someone who’s fun to listen to and might have some lore to share. I doubt that any retailer begrudges a purchaser information about the product being sold…What I see (and hear) are buyers that expect more, specifically they DEMAND information that is gained only through experience and personal observation, they are into instant gratification and unwilling to spend the time and energy to understand the resource, make their own observations and apply whatever skills they have to the sport.  Showing someone how to cast or tie a leader is one thing,  expecting a salesperson to direct YOU out of the 100 or so people a day he/she waits on to good water is another.

I have to agree with you there, but…I’ve never seen this demanding type, and certainly hope I’ve never been taken for one.  In retrospect, I don’t know how I could be, as the shop we had been discussing normally didn’t have the time to find out.  We may be talking about two different things here.  I was talking about how to tie a knot – and my criticism was for the poor or total lack of grace in dealing with just such a request.  So if you can accept that some folks just don’t get the same time and attention for such trivial pieces of knowledge, then perhaps you can agree.  I sometimes wax sympathetic thinking on what it must be like to be a guide that has to put up with jerks you refer to. But then, I couldn’t turn my only vice into work, either.  Hats off to those can. I’ll tell you why.  They aren’t after your ability to sustain a living. They are starting out in a very intimidating sport, it is financially and   socially daunting to most." It isn’t my living, it is my avocation.  I am in no way associated with Kaufmans or any other shop, guide business or manufacturer.  "Financially and socially daunting"…is that what the attraction is?  Or is it your philosophical position that ignorance is financially and socially daunting?

Missed your meaning on that.  Maybe you missed mine.  I fell in love with fly fishing due to some mentoring of a good friend and an inexplicable form of self flagellation, I guess.  How do you describe what it’s like to catch a fish on a fly… eh, that’s a whole ‘nother thread.  If you’re an ignorant hayseed like me, you begin with a preconceived notion fly fishing is for effete in-bred snobs who prefer this to be a sport of exclusion.  So I’m a party crasher, excuuuuse me.  After many years of being dedicated to it, I’m happy to report most are just ordinary men and women who enjoy the beauty of the elements and the elegance of the application. "Now what do you think a customer who is starting out on a limited budget wants?  Well hell no, it’s not a guided trip to Christmas Island!   Encouragement, helpful detailed advice and your knowledge is what he needs." Now I get it, it isn’t important or interesting enough to spend any of your own time on so all you need to do is borrow someone else’s research…preferably without paying anything in time or cash.

Depends on whether you want him for a customer when he can afford it, I guess. Up to you.  Again, I hope we’re talking about two different people.  I wouldn’t expect you to suffer abuse or being ripped off.  I was talking about someone starting out, who wasn’t born with an Orvis in their mouth.  My wife and I are counting on hitting Christmas Island.  Guess who will get our business (or more to the point, who will not)? Few things get my burner going like the guardian of holy secrets of fly   fishing. When I graduated to a Fenwick Eagle rod, Berkly reel and a pair of Redball waders, I braved the Yellowstone.  I didn’t have a clue.  Talk about being intimidated.  Time was precious and I needed to know what and how to fish it.  So I went up to a guy and asked.  He eyeballed me up and down, gave me that "oooooh, what a big spender you are" look, and went back to tying on his fly without a word." Maybe that is the problem, you think there are "holy secrets of flyfishing", a magic grail that is a substitute for personal observation and experience. Maybe the gentleman on the Yellowstone was giving you his "oooooh no, another dude who thinks his time is too precious to do his homework and acquire the necessary skills before coming here" look.

Well, I guess we got each other pegged.  I never went and got my flyfishing Phd.  Hope I never do.

Response:

Charlie,     Do have kids… in their 20s now and they give others space on the stream… Learned fishing manners by age 10 or so.                 Prof. 8x  

Response:

   We all better polish our social skills if we are going to keep, pursuing this wonderful pass time.  I can remember fishing Grand Lake Stream, Slate Run and even the Madison when I was the only person in sight, those days are GONE. I miss them but I’m learning to adapt by:  fishing mostly during the week, fishing water that is difficult to wade and (difficult to boat sometimes) from a specialized water craft, discovering places that have solitude and good fly fishing for different fish (smallmouth bass being my favorite other fish, ounce for ounce fights as good as any trout I’ve ever met.)    And although I’m a loner in many ways I’ve enjoyed interacting with other fisherman as I’ve grown up.  In fact last week and weekend I was on the Halston in Tenn. and it was fairly busy (sulfurs in mid day and all that) and I was impressed with the courtesy and friendship displayed by the east Tenn. folks (Like why don’t you try that 20" brown he’s got me stumped !!)   You had to duck flying hardware on the weekend but the local fly fisherman were very nice. Hats off to them.                                           regards leo

Response:

: Isn’t there any one that goes fishing with an expectation of at least a : modicum of privacy and soltitude?  Apparently the current generation of : fly fishermen not only doesn’t understand the basic courtesy involved in : letting whoever is in the water fish it undisturbed, they also think that : a fishing license also entitles them to race up and down the stream : asking everyone "what are they takin" or "howzit goin?"  and invade the : space of others verbally if not physically.   Well, there you go.  Wanna talk sociology?  Most, not all, good streams are located in rural areas.  In rural areas, it is considered rude to *not* acknowledge the presence of another.  I know this is not true in the urban environment, but it is proper behavior on most streams.  (Unless there are bank to bank fisherfolk, and if that is the case, why are you there?) Rick — T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.  

Response:

For every jerk out there who ignores you there are a 100 who are willing to share what they know. Ignore the jerks and keep looking. Bill A.

Response:

: asking everyone "what are they takin" or "howzit goin?"  and invade the : space of others verbally if not physically.   : that disturbing every streamside stranger with inane comments and : inquiries.  Why on earth do you think I should find my conversation with :                   :                                     Prof. 8x ‘ Hmmm, no kids, eh, Prof? :^) Charley

Response:

Isn’t there any one that goes fishing with an expectation of at least a modicum of privacy and soltitude?  Apparently the current generation of fly fishermen not only doesn’t understand the basic courtesy involved in letting whoever is in the water fish it undisturbed, they also think that a fishing license also entitles them to race up and down the stream asking everyone "what are they takin" or "howzit goin?"  and invade the space of others verbally if not physically.   Suggest that a number of you try bowling or perhaps joining a tractor pull fan club as those activities seem more in keeping with your ideas of appropriate streamside conduct.  Comradeship/fellowship involves more that disturbing every streamside stranger with inane comments and inquiries.  Why on earth do you think I should find my conversation with the fish when I am in the stream less important that whatever it is you want to interrupt me with?  Do you exhibit the same rudeness to your associates or strangers in the office or at a cocktail party?                                       Prof. 8x

Response:

Give Propps shop a try in Spokane.  Those guys will talk for hours and then walk away from a sale.  I’ve seen it happen a couple times. Rick

Hi, Rick. John Propp?  Nice guy.  I met him at Brown’s a year or two ago.  He said he built rods, but I had no idea he had a shop.  How’d I miss that?  Where is it at? Thanks, -Dick

Response:

Hi Mike, Good to meet you. As you can see I changed the subject line, mostly out of pity for Kauffman’s who took more of a pounding than I intended.  I was miffed at them for the Ross reel deal, and for the "ambience" I, and judging my most of the other responses, several others notice there.  They were an example of the moment and not really the topic. Hmm, not sure what this means…it isn’t a business philosophy by the way, just a mild rant at wannabes without sufficient motivation to pursue the knowledge and skills necessary to fish well on their own…meaning self study, (flyfishing has one of the oldest and most extensive literary traditions of any of our contemporary outdoor sporting endeavors) or participating in the plethora of schools, clinics and clubs available.  

I don’t have a snappy come back for that.  You have a point that probably serves a particular class of flyfisher.  I would ask your indulgence in that I really ain’t met many ‘o them thar book larned experts out in the stream.  I musta been too bizzy buckin’ hay that day.  Ok, mea culpa. I’m the guy you are referring to.  I never spent a day in the library I could of spent on the water.  I prefer lessons over coffee (in the morning) or with a beer (well, mornings too, if the mood takes me) with someone who’s fun to listen to and might have some lore to share. I doubt that any retailer begrudges a purchaser information about the product being sold…What I see (and hear) are buyers that expect more, specifically they DEMAND information that is gained only through experience and personal observation, they are into instant gratification and unwilling to spend the time and energy to understand the resource, make their own observations and apply whatever skills they have to the sport.  Showing someone how to cast or tie a leader is one thing,  expecting a salesperson to direct YOU out of the 100 or so people a day he/she waits on to good water is another.

I have to agree with you there, but…I’ve never seen this demanding type, and certainly hope I’ve never been taken for one.  In retrospect, I don’t know how I could be, as the shop we had been discussing normally didn’t have the time to find out.  We may be talking about two different things here.  I was talking about how to tie a knot – and my criticism was for the poor or total lack of grace in dealing with just such a request.  So if you can accept that some folks just don’t get the same time and attention for such trivial pieces of knowledge, then perhaps you can agree.  I sometimes wax sympathetic thinking on what it must be like to be a guide that has to put up with jerks you refer to. But then, I couldn’t turn my only vice into work, either.  Hats off to those can. I’ll tell you why.  They aren’t after your ability to sustain a living. They are starting out in a very intimidating sport, it is financially and   socially daunting to most." It isn’t my living, it is my avocation.  I am in no way associated with Kaufmans or any other shop, guide business or manufacturer.  "Financially and socially daunting"…is that what the attraction is?  Or is it your philosophical position that ignorance is financially and socially daunting?

Missed your meaning on that.  Maybe you missed mine.  I fell in love with fly fishing due to some mentoring of a good friend and an inexplicable form of self flagelation, I guess.  How do you describe what it’s like to catch a fish on a fly… eh, that’s a whole ‘nother thread.  If you’re an ignorant hayseed like me, you begin with a preconceived notion fly fishing is for effete in-bred snobs who prefer this to be a sport of exclusion.  So I’m a party crasher, excuuuuse me.  After many years of being dedicated to it, I’m happy to report most are just ordinary men and women who enjoy the beauty of the elements and the elegance of the application. "Now what do you think a customer who is starting out on a limited budget wants?  Well hell no, it’s not a guided trip to Christmas Island!   Encouragement, helpful detailed advice and your knowledge is what he needs." Now I get it, it isn’t important or interesting enough to spend any of your own time on so all you need to do is borrow someone else’s research…preferably without paying anything in time or cash.

Depends on whether you want him for a customer when he can afford it, I guess. Up to you.  Again, I hope we’re talking about two different people.  I wouldn’t expect you to suffer abuse or being ripped off.  I was talking about someone starting out, who wasn’t born with an Orvis in their mouth.  My wife and I are counting on hitting Christmas Island.  Guess who will get our business (or more to the point, who will not)?

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[bandwidthectomy] : Now to take on your detractor: : I’ll tell you why.  They aren’t after your ability to sustain a living.  They : are starting out in a very intimidating sport, it is financially and : socially daunting to most.  I’ll bet they only bought the outlandishly : over priced flies to force you into a few seconds of hopeful conversation. Well put.  I can’t agree with Mike on this one, although it marks a first.  Guiding, like ffishing, is a career (or hobby) that should be built over years.  The good guide is always guiding and eventually he or she will be paid well for it.  And besides, you don’t just hang a sign up and declare yourself a guide worth hiring.  A bit like consulting…I had to give away a lot of free advice before anyone thought it worth paying for.  Same with teaching.  Should I simply ignore the poor students and focus on the ones I figure will succeed?  Many do, but I think not.  And for what it is worth, I think this is a good discussion.  I don’t want to wallow in sexist BS here, but I love a good sports shop.  Hang out and talk fishing with the guys.  Why does it matter what car one drives (to the shop, that is…I still say it is a goofball that drives a $30K car down a dusty, broken road and parks next to a stream.) : Yakima or the Silver Bow in Spokane.   Give Propps shop a try in Spokane.  Those guys will talk for hours and then walk away from a sale.  I’ve seen it happen a couple times. Rick — T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.  

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I have been looking for a good dependable fly-shop; however, I   have been warned against Kaufmans, as they were described as   being too uptight and impersonal. Not everybody. Talk to Rod. Steer clear of john hazen. he’s a wealth of information, but only willing to talk to big spenders or people who impress him that they know what they’re doing already. (I’ve fooled him a Sean Williams Student, Teacher, Angler Portland, Ore., USA

Actually, believe you mean John HaZEL.  There is a John HaZEN, but he works at the Valley Flyfisher in Salem.  You might be a bit more charitable in your analysis by substituting " regular customers with a long term relationship with the firm" or "buyers" as opposed to "big spenders".  Why is it that some buyers always expect to obtain years of hard earned experience for the price of a few flies without paying for it by spending their own time or hiring a guide…who by the way, has nothing to sell except his hard earned knowledge.   Probably the same people that sidle up to the doctor or lawyer a cocktail party and expect a diagnosis.  

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Actually, believe you mean John HaZEL.  There is a John HaZEN, but he works at the Valley Flyfisher in Salem.  

You’re right. Apologies to john hazen You might be a bit more charitable in your analysis by substituting " regular customers with a long term relationship with the firm" or "buyers" as opposed to "big spenders".

Well, yes and no. I agree that "big spenders" is perjoritive, but I can think of several situations when a buyer will be laying out big bucks on a new system, or people going on one of the travel packages will be in the store. Often, this is someone new to fishing, who wants (deserves?) special attention to accompany the large purchase. At those times, I can forget about receiving any service. And maybe rightly so. However, although my criticisms might have been unfair or harsh, they are not far from the truth.  Why is it that some buyers always expect to obtain years of hard earned experience for the price of a few flies without paying for it by spending their own time or hiring a guide…who by the way, has nothing to sell except his hard earned knowledge.   Probably the same people that sidle up to the doctor or lawyer a cocktail party and expect a diagnosis.  

Now its your turn to be a bit more charitable.  My statements were intended for a new angler who needs advice from professionals like those at Kaufmann’s. I think unfair to call their shop staff snobbish, because I don’t think it is, even john hazel.  On the other hand, I have seen people get the short end of the stick while in there. John and the others aren’t there by accident

Question:

Is there such a thing?  I’d love to drive into the mountains, meet a bunch of other homebrewers at about 10000′ (ASL), pitch a tent, stoke a fire, and swap homebrew, fly fish, lie about our SO’s, and forget about work for 48 hours.  Who’s in?  I’d suggest late-June to mid-July just because it’s going to take time to get this thing going.   email me.   — | 12459 W. Atlantic Ave | 303/763-8118 (Home) | 4725 Independence Street | | Lakewood, CO 80228    | 303/467-8352 (Work) | Wheat Ridge,  CO 80033   |

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Are you seriously opposed to bait fishermen?  I might be in.

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