Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would rate line control as the most difficult, especially when nymphing. When the fish are rising, you don’t have to be able to read water. There are other satellite skills worth mentioning: fly tying rodbuilding photography writing story telling teaching tree/plant/bird/animal identification map reading bullshitting/evasiveness sleuthing/gleaning info from other fishermen Any others?

ROFF survival skills are in need if one is not internet impaired. Flyfish

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A discussion in another thread got me to thinking. Which of the skills involved in angling with a fly requires the most effort to achieve proficiency ? A (incomplete, feel free to add your own) list of skills includes: Casting Line control Reading water Wading without doing a "Reid" Fly selection Convincing SWMBO to let you go fishing in the first place Of all these "skills" I believe reading water is the most difficult to become proficient at. And casting, I would rate casting as the easiest. Give me 20 minutes and I can teach someone to cast well enough to fish.

I agree that the reading of the water (& fish within) is the most challenging (and rewarding) aspect of fly angling, though I won’t necessarily concur that it is the most "difficult".  Reading the water is more or less an experience related thing, and you have to have experienced the occasion to be able to learn from it.  However, that being said, some people are more observant than others,  and will learn something about a specific thing from a singular exposure to the observation of whatever that thing might be.  The slower learners might have to observe the phenomena many times before fully understanding it.  Perhaps "difficult" should encompass the degree of pure ability of  eyesight  that is required to master the reading of the water & fish, as that is the key limiting factor of the human body & its application to flyfishing?  Keen sight and observation and a willingness to learn are the key elements in reading a water  (for me that water is a troutstream). Regards, Michael.

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Patience was a worthy addition, which would go hand in hand with memory – remembering past lessons learned and forgotten. …after that I would go into fly selection which is greatly tied to entomology and presentation..perhaps a dash of line control. ….but then I don’t know squat, I just like to fish…john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A discussion in another thread got me to thinking. Which of the skills involved in angling with a fly requires the most effort to achieve proficiency ? A (incomplete, feel free to add your own) list of skills includes: Casting Line control Reading water Wading without doing a "Reid" Fly selection Convincing SWMBO to let you go fishing in the first place Of all these "skills" I believe reading water is the most difficult to become proficient at. And casting, I would rate casting as the easiest. Give me 20 minutes and I can teach someone to cast well enough to fish. — Ken Fortenberry

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Patience. Steve

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I would add . . . Accepting that the fish are doing what the fish are doing, and not what I would want them to be doing, AND then. . . using appropriate rig and technique accordingly. …

Exactly correct. If the fish are not taking dry flies I accept that and use the appropriate rig, a can of cold Budweiser and a spliff. The "technique" is called "listening to the river sing sweet songs". I am not, as our esteemed correspondent from Sweden would suggest, totally clueless about nymphing. I will confess to having done it, as recently as on the Muskegon and on the San Juan, to provide ROFFian references. But anymore, fishing is more important than catching fish, and I’ll stick to dries if it’s OK with ya’ll. — Ken Fortenberry

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A discussion in another thread got me to thinking. Which of the skills involved in angling with a fly requires the most effort to achieve proficiency ? A (incomplete, feel free to add your own) list of skills includes: Casting Line control Reading water Wading without doing a "Reid" Fly selection Convincing SWMBO to let you go fishing in the first place

Line control, aka presentation. George Adams "All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of youth that doth not grow stale with age."                                                           —- J.W Muller

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Casting

    Nope, you can teach a monkey how to cast a fly line. Line control

    That’s the winner. I can’t believe how many avid ff’ers just don’t get it. I fish with lots of guys who’ve mastered all the other skills mentioned, but they just don’t seem to comprehend "dead drift". Reading water

    Important, but most guys seem to learn how to read the water years before they can make a proper presentation. Wading without doing a "Reid"

    Anybody with normal bipedal skills should be able to wade well enough to catch fish, but on a heavily fished river, a better wader has more opportunities. Fly selection

   A close second. Willi is often called the "troutmaster" and I believe this is why. The guy always has the right pattern; sometimes I’ll wade over to see what he’s using and I’m usually amazed, when I’m wading back to my spot I say to myself "Why didn’t I think of that?"     Not as important as line control, however. Unless it’s a "moving pattern" (streamers, skittering caddis, et al) the fish won’t bite it if it’s dragging. Convincing SWMBO to let you go fishing in the first place

    Got rid of beta version. Current wiff says I don’t fish enough.

Response:

A discussion in another thread got me to thinking. Which of the skills involved in angling with a fly requires the most effort to achieve proficiency ?

As a newbie to fly fishing who has recently completed his first full season, the skill that most eludes me is line control, particularly where multiple and conflicting currents are involved.  While it isn’t pretty, I can cast well enough—as Ken writes—to catch fish.  I am able to read water well enough to locate the most obvious lies, and fly selection is an area in which I am improving.  Line control, though?  Good God!  I was badly humbled on the Owens River a couple of weeks ago while casting little caddis dries to rising fish.  Enough said. While I can practice some of the other "skills" away from the water, I need to have my line laying across the current in a real river to really be able to understand everything that comes into play with controlling the line. As an aside that might be more appropriate for ROFFT, the next skill I want to start learning is tying my own flies.  I’m leaning towards an inexpensive vise and tool kit (Thompson A plus tools), picking up materials as I go.  If somebody wants to enlighten me as far as other options go, I’m more than willing to listen.  Many thanks. Cheers, Bill

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A (incomplete, feel free to add your own) list of skills includes:

knowing when to check the hook point on yer yella humpy <g jeff and wolf should be pullin’ in any time now, on the road to snowbird… yabbba, dabbbba, dewwwwwwww . –waldo

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A discussion in another thread got me to thinking. Which of the skills involved in angling with a fly requires the most effort to achieve proficiency ? A (incomplete, feel free to add your own) list of skills includes: Casting Line control Reading water Wading without doing a "Reid" Fly selection

    i have a funny feeling that the responses will be conditioned to a large extent by the kind of water one usually fishes.  for example, my first choice is "line control", both in and out of the water.  that selection is driven because, as you well know, one must be able to cast in very confined conditions above the water, and mend like a magician *on* the water, to catch good fish in the mountains of north carolina.  tangentially, one’s wading abilities (including agility, strength, and stamina) are very, very important on streams such as snowbird, hazel, and the nanty.  the two talents bisect at some point, since the ability to acquire a position from which a particular run or pocket can be accessed more easily than a point at which one merely steps off the bank may reduce the need for difficult mending chores.     finally, the least important for me is fly selection.  where i come from, if you read water (which has always, strangely, come easy for me) well, and can achieve a drag free float, it usually doesn’t make a damn bit of difference what is on the end of the tippet. yfitons wayno

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Charlie Wilson writes:

<snip I totally agree.  I can’t cast worth a damn, but I can present a fly well in most situations.  I recently learned another way to "swing" a fly, and I wouldn’t have caught anything if I didn’t learn the technique. Missed you at HF.  Hope all is ok. Dave

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A discussion in another thread got me to thinking. Which of the skills involved in angling with a fly requires the most effort to achieve proficiency ? A (incomplete, feel free to add your own) list of skills includes: Casting Line control Reading water Wading without doing a "Reid" Fly selection Convincing SWMBO to let you go fishing in the first place Of all these "skills" I believe reading water is the most difficult to become proficient at. And casting, I would rate casting as the easiest. Give me 20 minutes and I can teach someone to cast well enough to fish. — Ken Fortenberry

Im my case, I think casting is the most difficult. I find that line control becomes easy when I am casting accurately and well.

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I would add . . . Accepting that the fish are doing what the fish are doing, and not what I would want them to be doing, AND then. . . using appropriate rig and technique accordingly. Its existential. And common, I suspect, to folks addicted to surface strikes. Dave

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<snip As an aside that might be more appropriate for ROFFT, the next skill I want to start learning is tying my own flies.  I’m leaning towards an inexpensive vise and tool kit (Thompson A plus tools), picking up materials as I go. If somebody wants to enlighten me as far as other options go, I’m more than willing to listen.  Many thanks. Cheers, Bill

You’re on the right track… The key is picking the flies you want to tie, and buying that material. Even more important is to actually learn some basic techniques: starting the thread, whip or half hitch finish, basic dubbing, and proportions.  You can get that from books, but it’s better to actually watch somebody.  Your local flyshop, TU or FFF chapter probably runs formal or informal classes during the winter.  Now is the time to check!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A discussion in another thread got me to thinking. Which of the skills involved in angling with a fly requires the most effort to achieve proficiency ? A (incomplete, feel free to add your own) list of skills includes: Casting Line control Reading water Wading without doing a "Reid" Fly selection Convincing SWMBO to let you go fishing in the first place Of all these "skills" I believe reading water is the most difficult to become proficient at. And casting, I would rate casting as the easiest. Give me 20 minutes and I can teach someone to cast well enough to fish.

For myself, I’d vote line control.  I regularly fish "big" water that requires casting beyond the main channel into pockets.  In these scenarios the fly often is presented on near still water, while the line is drifting in rapid water.  I find it difficult to mend 20′ of line in a current without pulling the fly out of the still water.

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 Have to agree with you.  I will hopefully fish till the day I get to old cast a fly and still not be able to know what is under the surface.  Tried reading books and it just doesn’t seem to be retained.  I think that it is probably only learned over time, or at the side of an experienced teacher.  The rest of the list is relatively easy to learn, especially the ‘Reid’ reference, turns out I only fell twice (this year) but did it with style.  :)        jim An hour on the river adds a day to your life. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A discussion in another thread got me to thinking. Which of the skills involved in angling with a fly requires the most effort to achieve proficiency ? A (incomplete, feel free to add your own) list of skills includes: Casting Line control Reading water Wading without doing a "Reid" Fly selection Convincing SWMBO to let you go fishing in the first place Of all these "skills" I believe reading water is the most difficult to become proficient at. And casting, I would rate casting as the easiest. Give me 20 minutes and I can teach someone to cast well enough to fish. — Ken Fortenberry

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Reading water Wading without doing a "Reid" Of all these "skills" I believe reading water is the most difficult to become proficient at. And casting, I would rate casting as the easiest. Give me 20 minutes and I can teach someone to cast well enough to fish. — Ken Fortenberry

I’ve been Reiding the water for years.  It is indeed a difficult skill to master unless you are born to it (What?!  You think you just fall into like a lottery winner?). Seriously, I do agree that reading the water is up there, but it is second to fly selection.  Yeh, when the rain is holding the slate drakes on the surface and you could cast a chunk of charcoal out there and get a 26" fish, its easy.  When the sun is high, no wind, no hatch, but you see the fish rolling deep and trying to figure them out is definately a knack. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

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Of all these "skills" I believe reading water is the most difficult to become proficient at. And casting, I would rate casting as the easiest. Give me 20 minutes and I can teach someone to cast well enough to fish.

Well enough to catch _some_ fish, anyway.  There will always be other fish in difficult locations, and you could spend a lifetime refining your casting skills to the point where you can make the perfect presentation to every fish in the stream. Likewise, tying on a Wooly Worm and just letting it drift in the current will almost always catch _some_ fish, but a more refined approach will usually get more fish.  Again, you could spend a lifetime trying to improve your skills. This, I think, really goes to the heart of what makes fishing interesting.  Almost anybody can succeed at it to some degree, but you can always improve.  If you could ever really _master_ it, it wouldn’t be any fun anymore.  The game of Tic-Tac-Toe is amusing for children, but after a while they realize that there is only a small number of possible strategies, and then the game isn’t any fun to play anymore.  Chess has finitely many possible strategies as well, but it the number is so large and the game so complex that probably no human will ever completely master the game. Kevin

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A discussion in another thread got me to thinking. Which of the skills involved in angling with a fly requires the most effort to achieve proficiency ? A (incomplete, feel free to add your own) list of skills includes: Casting Line control Reading water Wading without doing a "Reid" Fly selection Convincing SWMBO to let you go fishing in the first place Of all these "skills" I believe reading water is the most difficult to become proficient at. And casting, I would rate casting as the easiest. Give me 20 minutes and I can teach someone to cast well enough to fish. — Ken Fortenberry

"Reading the water"-skill is something that comes with spending a lot of time fishing and as such should be ranked high. Apart from that I would add correct presentation of different flies. Seeing that you may be a master dry fly fisherman and know absolutely nothing about nymphing, I would say that learning to present a fly correctly in any streamside situation takes a lot of different knowledge and experience. — Tight lines! / Roger Daytime engineer Lifetime flyfisherman If you feel like it, visit http://home.bip.net/angler/ for info on flyfishing in Sweden

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A discussion in another thread got me to thinking. Which of the skills involved in angling with a fly requires the most effort to achieve proficiency ? A (incomplete, feel free to add your own) list of skills includes: Casting Line control Reading water Wading without doing a "Reid" Fly selection Convincing SWMBO to let you go fishing in the first place Of all these "skills" I believe reading water is the most difficult to become proficient at. And casting, I would rate casting as the easiest. Give me 20 minutes and I can teach someone to cast well enough to fish.

Agreed, although I certainly would rank myself as "proficient". I’d rank "Line control" as number two. — TL, Tim

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A discussion in another thread got me to thinking. Which of the skills involved in angling with a fly requires the most effort to achieve proficiency ? A (incomplete, feel free to add your own) list of skills includes: Casting Line control Reading water Wading without doing a "Reid" Fly selection Convincing SWMBO to let you go fishing in the first place Of all these "skills" I believe reading water is the most difficult to become proficient at. And casting, I would rate casting as the easiest. Give me 20 minutes and I can teach someone to cast well enough to fish. — Ken Fortenberry

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I would rate line control as the most difficult, especially when nymphing. When the fish are rising, you don’t have to be able to read water. There are other satellite skills worth mentioning: fly tying rodbuilding photography writing story telling teaching tree/plant/bird/animal identification map reading bullshitting/evasiveness sleuthing/gleaning info from other fishermen Any others?

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  A discussion in another thread got me to thinking. Which of the   skills involved in angling with a fly requires the most effort to   achieve proficiency ?     A (incomplete, feel free to add your own) list of skills includes:     Casting   Line control   Reading water   Wading without doing a "Reid"   Fly selection   Convincing SWMBO to let you go fishing in the first place     Of all these "skills" I believe reading water is the most difficult   to become proficient at. And casting, I would rate casting as the   easiest. Give me 20 minutes and I can teach someone to cast well   enough to fish.   I think what we define as proficient in casting is very different. I think that casting is an integral part of presentation which IMO is the most difficult and complex of any of the skills. Willi

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I vote for setting the hook / striking (not listed). My success rate would skyrocket if I hooked 1/2 the fish that "take" or rise. Seems I’m either too slow or too fast most of the time. Jim Ray

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A discussion in another thread got me to thinking. Which of the skills involved in angling with a fly requires the most effort to achieve proficiency ? A (incomplete, feel free to add your own) list of skills includes: Casting Line control Reading water Wading without doing a "Reid" Fly selection Convincing SWMBO to let you go fishing in the first place Of all these "skills" I believe reading water is the most difficult to become proficient at. And casting, I would rate casting as the easiest. Give me 20 minutes and I can teach someone to cast well enough to fish. — Ken Fortenberry

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A discussion in another thread got me to thinking. Which of the skills involved in angling with a fly requires the most effort to achieve proficiency ? A (incomplete, feel free to add your own) list of skills includes: Casting Line control Reading water Wading without doing a "Reid" Fly selection Convincing SWMBO to let you go fishing in the first place Of all these "skills" I believe reading water is the most difficult to become proficient at. And casting, I would rate casting as the easiest. Give me 20 minutes and I can teach someone to cast well enough to fish.

Well, the two with the ";-)" aren’t really FFing skills per se (probably indicated by the ";-)" ) and wading isn’t a universal requirement of FFing, even taking it as a "skill" of FFing – however, if one wades, do so safely is important.  I’d agree that "reading water" (or "fishing in the right place at the right time," or whatever one wishes to call it) is the most difficult because it is the only one over which the angler has only limited control in the time one fishes, and no control over the "water" itself (well, other than on private water, and even then, the control is not complete).  With casting, the angler has the control, and "casting well enough to fish," if defined as getting a fly in the general area one wishes, isn’t that difficult, esp. with shorter casts. I would add to the list three more skills, with first being perhaps the most important skill: learning how to fight and release a fish, even if you rarely release.  It, like casting, is very easy to learn, yet is probably the most-neglected skill for most anglers.  If angling is a sport, learn to be sporting first and foremost – this relates, IMO, to my third addition, below. The second is presentation – "casting well enough to fish," again, if defined as getting a fly to the general area desired, is not all there is to FFing, and an "ugly" cast with a delicate presentation is often more effective than a "textbook" (aerial/distance portion) cast that finishes by landing like a cinder block on a logging chain tossed from a truck.  Granted, that is a bit extreme as a "perfect" cast should present fairly well, but the point remains that "casting" involves a number of "steps" that 20 minutes of instruction won’t teach completely for all situations. The third "skill" (admittedly stretching "skill" a bit, but…) being that of the ability to select appropriate tackle: heavy enough for the quarry while remaining enjoyable – no 3-wt. trout setups after salmon, etc., appropriate to the angler in terms of need, budget, experience, skill, etc. – going into debt for a 1000.00-plus USD setup will not make you a better angler, and anyone who tries to convince you otherwise has more problems than fishing – you CAN catch many species on any number of 100.00USD or less setups, be they new "X-Mart Specials," Cabela’s "kits," tag sale/flea market finds, etc.  OTOH, if the only thing that limits your purchasing ability is an outfitter’s inventory and your skill and experience is such that you wish to take advantage of the diminishing returns of "better" tackle, then getting whatever you wish is completely understandable, and, appropriate to the quarry and location – under-lined, under-backed Martin "X-Mart" specials are inappropriate when bonefishing, etc. TC, R

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Question:

Folding Kayaks are very stable and are used for fishing. Look at www.folbot.com and www.klepperusa.com. Artie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello everyone: I have been doing some research on recreational kayaks for the main purposes of lake paddling and FISHING. Some of them are: a. Old Town: Loon 111 and Loon 100 b. Perception: Swifty, Sierra, and Acadia c. Wilderness Systems: Pungo, Bandit, and Critter d. Necky: Sky e. Heritage Kayaks: Featherlite For those who fish from a recreational kayak: 1. Is there any particular brand/model that you will strongly suggest? 2. How have you rigged it for fishing? 3. Any website with information and pictures on rigging a kayak for fishing? Thanks a lot for your help. Javier Woodbridge, VA

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello everyone: I have been doing some research on recreational kayaks for the main purposes of lake paddling and FISHING. Some of them are: a. Old Town: Loon 111 and Loon 100 b. Perception: Swifty, Sierra, and Acadia c. Wilderness Systems: Pungo, Bandit, and Critter d. Necky: Sky e. Heritage Kayaks: Featherlite For those who fish from a recreational kayak: 1. Is there any particular brand/model that you will strongly suggest? 2. How have you rigged it for fishing? 3. Any website with information and pictures on rigging a kayak for fishing? Thanks a lot for your help. Javier Woodbridge, VA

The outdoors editor for the Houston Chronicle was a kayak fisherman…. From my kayak experience – get as wide a boat as possible. Wide equals stable and that is a good thing for moving and fishing (but a bit slower for kayaking). Obviously large cockpit opening is good too! paul — PAUL OMAN Offered By: Progressive Epoxy Polymers, Inc. Frog Pond Hollow 48 Wildwood Drive – Pittsfield, NH 03263 603-435-7199   FAX 603-435-7182 HOURS: 10-5  Mon-Thur Eastern Time VISA or MasterCard Accepted http://www.epoxyproducts.com VIEW OFFICES: http://www.picturetrail.com/p.oman/289271 PRODUCTS/PRICES: http://www.epoxyproducts4u.com FAQ: http://www.epoxyproducts.com/25points4u.html BOATING: http://www.epoxyproducts.com/marine.html

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Also consider the Perception Keowee. My Keowee II is about 31" wide which makes it about the widest recreational kayak and it is very stable. Lynn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been doing some research on recreational kayaks for the main purposes of lake paddling and FISHING. Some of them are: a. Old Town: Loon 111 and Loon 100 b. Perception: Swifty, Sierra, and Acadia c. Wilderness Systems: Pungo, Bandit, and Critter d. Necky: Sky e. Heritage Kayaks: Featherlite For those who fish from a recreational kayak: 1. Is there any particular brand/model that you will strongly suggest? 2. How have you rigged it for fishing? 3. Any website with information and pictures on rigging a kayak for fishing? Thanks a lot for your help. Javier Woodbridge, VA The outdoors editor for the Houston Chronicle was a kayak fisherman…. From my kayak experience – get as wide a boat as possible. Wide equals stable and that is a good thing for moving and fishing (but a bit slower for kayaking). Obviously large cockpit opening is good too! paul

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I don’t fish from a kayak, but have friends who do and they recommend a kayak that was produced only briefly by Perception.  It was the Axxess Backcountry – which was a modification to the Axxess which was perfectly modified in various ways for fishing.   The design was by Jim Snyder – maybe he could steer you to someone who could lay you up one in glass.  (The Perception model was in plastic.)  Jim’s website is for his paddles, but you can access his email from there and maybe he could help you out. http://www.jimisnyder.com – Mothra

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also might check out the  kiwi "Lobo", very similar to the swifty. head over to www.paddling.net and post your question there also, i know quite a few folks there fish from their yaks. good luck, paddle on….

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1. Is there any particular brand/model that you will strongly suggest?

I like the Wilderness Systems Ride SOT model for fly fishing. It works great for slow moving rivers and inshore lakes and saltwater. 2. How have you rigged it for fishing?

I added a couple of Scotty fly rod holders and rigged a couple of eyelets and a jam cleat so I can use a float tube anchor attached to the bow. — Charlie…

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**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** I fish out of a Wilderness Systems Pungo.  I live on a large but narrow impoundment (Herrington Lake).  The Pungo tracks extremely well for a 12′ kayak, yet turns easily with a lean.  The heavy motorboat traffic in the summer does not cause me any problems.  The large cockpit has room for a lot of gear, including space behind the seat.  I would highly recommend this boat.  Mine has no special rigging for fishing other than a set of paddle clips/rod holder for use while paddling to a fishing spot.  I generally use a fly rod and even troll with it just leaning out over the bow with the reel sitting in the cup holder. You might find the following web site of interest (no affiliation): http://www.kayakfishing.com/ Conrad Shiba Danville, KY  *** Usenet.com – The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! ***                       http://www.usenet.com

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Hello everyone: I have been doing some research on recreational kayaks for the main purposes of lake paddling and FISHING. Some of them are: a. Old Town: Loon 111 and Loon 100 b. Perception: Swifty, Sierra, and Acadia c. Wilderness Systems: Pungo, Bandit, and Critter d. Necky: Sky e. Heritage Kayaks: Featherlite For those who fish from a recreational kayak: 1. Is there any particular brand/model that you will strongly suggest? 2. How have you rigged it for fishing? 3. Any website with information and pictures on rigging a kayak for fishing? Thanks a lot for your help. Javier Woodbridge, VA

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 I fish from a Perception America. Added deck lines, two each flush mount and deck mount rod-holders. Used to have a depth finder installed but I removed it for another kayak. There are some pictures at http://casualkayaker.tripod.com. I have found very few sites for recreational kayaks so far. Phil Rowe message – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello everyone: I have been doing some research on recreational kayaks for the main purposes of lake paddling and FISHING. Some of them are: a. Old Town: Loon 111 and Loon 100 b. Perception: Swifty, Sierra, and Acadia c. Wilderness Systems: Pungo, Bandit, and Critter d. Necky: Sky e. Heritage Kayaks: Featherlite For those who fish from a recreational kayak: 1. Is there any particular brand/model that you will strongly suggest? 2. How have you rigged it for fishing? 3. Any website with information and pictures on rigging a kayak for fishing? Thanks a lot for your help. Javier Woodbridge, VA

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Question:

  I think that a sense of being crowded has much to do with the size of the stream. On many small streams it is futile to fish behind another angler without a significant wait and there is no way that two people could share even the largest pool. Larger streams and rivers can accommodate many more anglers per mile without the sense of crowding. As the streams and rivers have become more crowded over the years, especially on the more famous waters, many anglers have accepted this over crowding as part of angling.

I consider a river to be crowded when you can’t rest a pool or a run after someone has fished it because someone else will jump in there. Unfortunately you have to get used to it on most of the rivers around here. I don’t fish too much smaller water, but I probably should.  I like fishing the big water and can usually drive to a spot that isn’t as crowded.  Even on the big rivers, people seldom venture to areas that require hiking to get at or that will require a longer drive down a dirt road. One of the best things about fishing smaller water is that you can often have them to yourself. The drawback is that even one other angler can spoil things.

Fishing smaller water to me means smaller fish, but possibly more of them so what they lack in size you make up for in numbers.  They can be a great source of enjoyment, but I fear I am getting lazy with so much water in easy walking/driving distance.  The last 2 years has not seen me doing much hiking to get at fish.  I get enough hiking in during hunting season. Besides, if things are good on a big river you can still get plenty of fish and bigger ones too.  I do miss the innocence displayed by fish in the smaller water that doesn’t get pounded. — Warren Findley Shut up and fish! For Yellowstone Clave info: http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/YNP.html

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If anyone is fishin’ the sections of Upper Creek that I fish, I consider the stream to be crowded!

I think that a sense of being crowded has much to do with the size of the stream. On many small streams it is futile to fish behind another angler without a significant wait and there is no way that two people could share even the largest pool. Larger streams and rivers can accommodate many more anglers per mile without the sense of crowding. As the streams and rivers have become more crowded over the years, especially on the more famous waters, many anglers have accepted this over crowding as part of angling. One of the best things about fishing smaller water is that you can often have them to yourself. The drawback is that even one other angler can spoil things. Willi

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If anyone is fishin’ the sections of Upper Creek that I fish, I consider the stream to be crowded!

Opie, if you are fishing within 2 states of me I considered things getting too crowded Warren

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If anyone is fishin’ the sections of Upper Creek that I fish, I consider the stream to be crowded! Opie, if you are fishing within 2 states of me I considered things getting too crowded

Hell, I’ve fished AND hiked with the boy.  He is a crowd unto himself, whether or not anyone else is in the crick!  About the only thing about him that ain’t crowded is the top of his head!!      :) Wolfgang amazed at what he can remember about a person in light of a promised absence at an upcoming event

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If anyone is fishin’ the sections of Upper Creek that I fish, I consider the stream to be crowded! Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   You guys should be glad to have so many wusses around.  Every November and December I go off for some late season steelheading on the Deschutes, in windy freezing rain, only to find it hard to lock into one of my favorite runs.  Often, once I get onto one, I look upstream: a fishermen. Downstream:  a fisherman.  "What the hell are these people doing out in weather like this?" I ask myself. Oh believe me, I am thankful.  I have started to notice more people going out in the winter time though.  I fear that the waters I like to fish will be crowded year around before too long.  Of course what I consider to be crowded during the winter is about 10 people on the mile stretch I fish <g — Warren Findley Yellowstone Clave info at: www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can’t believe what a bunch of wusses Colorado fishermen are. I had to run down to Mike Clark’s shop today to pick up a set of ferrules for a Leonard restoration. I drove the scenic route, which followed most of the Big Thompson and St. Vrain drainages. On a normal Saturday morning I’d have seen at least a hundred guys in the water, but today it was snowing, and I didn’t count a dozen fishermen out. I got home, bundled up in wool and goretex, and went back up to slaughter them. The fish were feeding like they were expecting something bad was about to happen, and I think they were right. It looks like runoff could get started any day now.

I notice much the same thing here too.  As soon as the weather is nice, the place I normally fish has a dozen people in it.  If it is crowded, I go to my alternate spot which is actually better, but a longer drive and more hiking. I did notice today that the river was a little darker than normal.  It was kind of funny though because you could see how the water level had dropped since the rain and warm weather we have been having.  Now that it is cold and snowing again, the water levels dropped but there is still some sediment in the water giving it a murky tinge.  I fear runoff is just around the corner for us too. Glad to hear you slayed them.  The fish up here seem to know that tomorrow is another day and are in no hurry to chow down just yet.  It is kind of funny, I think they are tired of midges after having fed on them all winter.  Now that they have tasted other flies, they have become really picky and mostly ignore the midges.  Thank God there are always some dumb ones <g — Warren Findley Yellowstone Clave info at: www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

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I can’t believe what a bunch of wusses Colorado fishermen are. ….snipped I notice much the same thing here too.  As soon as the weather is nice, the place I normally fish has a dozen people in it….

You guys should be glad to have so many wusses around.  Every November and December I go off for some late season steelheading on the Deschutes, in windy freezing rain, only to find it hard to lock into one of my favorite runs.  Often, once I get onto one, I look upstream: a fishermen. Downstream:  a fisherman.  "What the hell are these people doing out in weather like this?" I ask myself. JR

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  You guys should be glad to have so many wusses around.  Every November and December I go off for some late season steelheading on the Deschutes, in windy freezing rain, only to find it hard to lock into one of my favorite runs.  Often, once I get onto one, I look upstream: a fishermen. Downstream:  a fisherman.  "What the hell are these people doing out in weather like this?" I ask myself.

Oh believe me, I am thankful.  I have started to notice more people going out in the winter time though.  I fear that the waters I like to fish will be crowded year around before too long.  Of course what I consider to be crowded during the winter is about 10 people on the mile stretch I fish <g — Warren Findley Yellowstone Clave info at: www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

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……. I headed back upstream to check some productive dry fly water.  When I got there I didn’t see any fish rising so I sat on the bank and watched for a few minutes to see if anything was going to happen….

It took me a very long time, at the beginning of my fishing life, to figure out that a day ends up being a lot more enjoyable the more I take time for these 5-10 minute sit-downs just to watch what is happening.  Sounds like you had a real pleasant day, despite the weather. JR

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Nice report, jarhead. I can’t believe what a bunch of wusses Colorado fishermen are. I had to run down to Mike Clark’s shop today to pick up a set of ferrules for a Leonard restoration. I drove the scenic route, which followed most of the Big Thompson and St. Vrain drainages. On a normal Saturday morning I’d have seen at least a hundred guys in the water, but today it was snowing, and I didn’t count a dozen fishermen out. I got home, bundled up in wool and goretex, and went back up to slaughter them. The fish were feeding like they were expecting something bad was about to happen, and I think they were right. It looks like runoff could get started any day now.

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Well, I was sitting around the house wishing I could be out fishing and decided I wasn’t going to let the weather stop me.  It has been snowing off and on since yesterday but it isn’t too cold out.  The wind has been pretty bad and was the real reason why I had not ventured out.  After milling around the house and constantly staring out the window, I decided to make a go of it anyway.  The urge to fish far outweighed any weather considerations so I grabbed my gear, loaded up my fly boxes, grabbed the six weight and hit the door. I haven’t been able to fish in a couple of weeks and the lack of fishing has really taken its toll on me.  Despite the crappy weather I was really jazzed about getting out on the water.  I arrived at the access on the Gallatin and scanned the surface while I was getting ready.  I did not see any fish rising, but I did see quite a few midges out and about.  When I finally reached the water I couldn’t believe how many midges there were.  All the little pockets and back eddies were just filled with midges. I fished my way downstream and came to a spot that I wasn’t able to wade so I climbed up along the bank.  I was kind of walking a little too close to the private property so I dipped down a little lower so as to not piss the land owner off.  The bank is really steep with several logs, trees and log jams along the bank.  The water is really deep too. I came up to a spot that had a little log jam with a couple of trees hanging over the bank.  I saw several piles of midges gathered in this little sheltered position.  A really nice sized fish was working this area and was coming up quite often.  He was in a position that I could not cast to however.  I tried doing some commando fishing and dapping a griffith’s gnat in the area but I put the fish down. I headed back upstream to check some productive dry fly water.  When I got there I didn’t see any fish rising so I sat on the bank and watched for a few minutes to see if anything was going to happen. Several minutes went by and not one rise.  I just couldn’t resist making a few casts to a little pocket that I can usually pull a fish out of.  Second cast and I was able to get the fly in there despite the wind.  A short drift and a silver bullet darted up from the bottom and slammed the fly.  I set the hook and the fight was on.  It felt so great to have a fish on after such a long period without being able to fish.  I landed a nice little rainbow of about 10-11" after he made several jumps and runs.  After releasing him, I sat on the bank to kind of soak in the feeling of being out on the water again and catching fish. I moved up to the next big section of dry fly water and saw a few rises while I was there but was unable to get the fish interested in what I was offering.  After about an hour of fishing/observing and only seeing 7 rises I decided to move back downstream.  The snow started coming in a lot harder and the wind picked up.  The snow was falling almost horizontally because of the wind and began picking up in intensity.  It was enough to finally drive me off the water and back to the truck. Even though I only caught one fish, it was great to be back out.  I wish the weather would have cooperated a little more, but perhaps tomorrow will hold better weather and the fish will be a little more eager.  Until then, I guess I will just have to tie up some more flies that I will be using in the not so distant future. — Warren Findley Yellowstone Clave info at: www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

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Question:

I’d like to sell some fly fishing books and also buy used equipment is someone has something I’m looking for. Is there a fly fishing marketplace newsgroup or do people post here? I don’t want to get involved with EBay, just the real Fly fishers in groups like this. Thanks much.

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Try the Auction at the virtual fly shop. http://www.flyshop.com/Marketplace/ Paul ( no connection with VFS yadah yadah yadah)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d like to sell some fly fishing books and also buy used equipment is someone has something I’m looking for. Is there a fly fishing marketplace newsgroup or do people post here? I don’t want to get involved with EBay, just the real Fly fishers in groups like this. Thanks much.

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I’d like to sell some fly fishing books and also buy used equipment is someone has something I’m looking for. Is there a fly fishing marketplace newsgroup or do people post here? I don’t want to get involved with EBay, just the real Fly fishers in groups like this.

You’re clearly running a commercial enterprise. Thus, what you’re looking for is called a "web site". /daytripper

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I’m not in business. Plenty of people buy and sell old stuff on marketplace newsgroups. I didn’t post it here; just asked if there was a newsgroup( there are many in other ng areas). Your assumption is wrong. It is not my business. I was wondering if anyone wanted to buy, sell or trade items.  Man, some people are just angry all the time. If you know a good website for this, why not just let me know specifically what site is good. Commercial enterprise? Not be a long shot.

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Commercial enterprise? Not be a long shot.

Everything you sell is at cost? — Charlie…

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As log as he’s not trying to sell crooked bamboo rods with poorly fitted ferrules, gloppy (sp?) epoxy and glue lines as the finest ever built he should be allowed ONE post. to sell stuff. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Commercial enterprise? Not be a long shot. Everything you sell is at cost? — Charlie…

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As log as he’s not trying to sell crooked bamboo rods with poorly fitted ferrules, gloppy (sp?) epoxy and glue lines as the finest ever built he should be allowed ONE post. to sell stuff. Paul

Er, guys, maybe I misread, but I get the impression the guy just wants to buy and sell a few used items to feed a personal collection.  Why can’t he post such items and his desire to buy equipment? Fjx:  If this is what you mean, I don’t imaging anyone would (or should) have a problem. HTH? R

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As log as he’s not trying to sell crooked bamboo rods with poorly fitted ferrules, gloppy (sp?) epoxy and glue lines as the finest ever built he should be allowed ONE post. to sell stuff.

I was just curious how he defined ‘commercial’, sounded like it was a bad word. — Charlie…

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R Dean hasit right. I was just looking to add oand remove from my personal stuff. For example, I was able to buy a spool for a reel no longer made from someone on this ng some time back. Nothing more than that. I’ve also found some great books in the past. Hope no one was offended by the question. We have a common interest here and it’s nice to share ideas etc.

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rec.outdoors.marketplace Try this it may help? Eric Cassel www.anglersofamerica.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d like to sell some fly fishing books and also buy used equipment is someone has something I’m looking for. Is there a fly fishing marketplace newsgroup or do people post here? I don’t want to get involved with EBay, just the real Fly fishers in groups like this. Thanks much.

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Question:

The original message was not a troll, it was a subtle way of telling the whiners to F-off. I was exchanging beery emails with a flyfishing friend from Maine late Friday night and his observations were the impetus for the post Saturday morning. We are both surprised, I think, that the overwhelming consensus is to just leave well enough alone. The serial whiners had me convinced that a vast army of flyfisherfolk with delicate sensibilities were lurking out there but too intimidated to post, much to the detriment of the group. I truly believed it. I said that I would crosspost the call for a "show of hands" to a few other newsgroups, but I don’t think it’s worth the effort. Only eleven people besides myself have indicated that they would vote YES if the proposal came to a vote. The list follows, if you indicated or would like to indicate that you would vote YES but don’t see your email addy on the list, reply to this post. I’m gonna set the ROFF "show of hands" number arbitrarily at 55 before I bother to crosspost. My offer to do the grunt work required to start a RFD and a CFV will eventually expire so "show those hands" and start thinking about moderator(s) if this thing flies. Just as an aside, for whatever reason, I take a lot of email grief from the serial whiners. Volunteering to do a bit of work to push them off to a new newsgroup should in no way be considered altruistic or noble. I am doing this for personal and selfish reasons, I like ROFF just the way it is, consider it one of the more helpful and "newbie friendly" of the rec. newsgroups and I am sick and bloody fucking tired of whiners. — Ken Fortenberry

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I truly believed it.

You should believe it because it’s true. The people I know of already participate other FF forums. They, like me, aren’t interested in a new group. Just as an aside, for whatever reason, I take a lot of email grief from the serial whiners. Volunteering to do a bit of work to push them off to a new newsgroup should in no way be considered altruistic or noble. I am doing this for personal and selfish reasons, I like ROFF just the way it is, consider it one of the more helpful and "newbie friendly" of the rec. newsgroups and I am sick and bloody fucking tired of whiners.

There are other people here that are "fucking tired" of other things in ROFF. I will continue to criticize ROFF when I think it’s appropriate. ROFF is not sacred. I won’t do this through email. Here’s a suggestion for you, have the "membership" make a rule. Anything goes on ROFF except for criticism of ROFF itself. That will get rid of this "whiner." Willi

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Yes. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The original message was not a troll, it was a subtle way of telling the whiners to F-off. I was exchanging beery emails with a flyfishing friend from Maine late Friday night and his observations were the impetus for the post Saturday morning. We are both surprised, I think, that the overwhelming consensus is to just leave well enough alone. The serial whiners had me convinced that a vast army of flyfisherfolk with delicate sensibilities were lurking out there but too intimidated to post, much to the detriment of the group. I truly believed it. I said that I would crosspost the call for a "show of hands" to a few other newsgroups, but I don’t think it’s worth the effort. Only eleven people besides myself have indicated that they would vote YES if the proposal came to a vote. The list follows, if you indicated or would like to indicate that you would vote YES but don’t see your email addy on the list, reply to this post. I’m gonna set the ROFF "show of hands" number arbitrarily at 55 before I bother to crosspost. My offer to do the grunt work required to start a RFD and a CFV will eventually expire so "show those hands" and start thinking about moderator(s) if this thing flies. Just as an aside, for whatever reason, I take a lot of email grief from the serial whiners. Volunteering to do a bit of work to push them off to a new newsgroup should in no way be considered altruistic or noble. I am doing this for personal and selfish reasons, I like ROFF just the way it is, consider it one of the more helpful and "newbie friendly" of the rec. newsgroups and I am sick and bloody fucking tired of whiners. — Ken Fortenberry

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Yes Tim Lysyk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes. The original message was not a troll, it was a subtle way of telling the whiners to F-off. I was exchanging beery emails with a flyfishing friend from Maine late Friday night and his observations were the impetus for the post Saturday morning. We are both surprised, I think, that the overwhelming consensus is to just leave well enough alone. The serial whiners had me convinced that a vast army of flyfisherfolk with delicate sensibilities were lurking out there but too intimidated to post, much to the detriment of the group. I truly believed it. I said that I would crosspost the call for a "show of hands" to a few other newsgroups, but I don’t think it’s worth the effort. Only eleven people besides myself have indicated that they would vote YES if the proposal came to a vote. The list follows, if you indicated or would like to indicate that you would vote YES but don’t see your email addy on the list, reply to this post. I’m gonna set the ROFF "show of hands" number arbitrarily at 55 before I bother to crosspost. My offer to do the grunt work required to start a RFD and a CFV will eventually expire so "show those hands" and start thinking about moderator(s) if this thing flies. Just as an aside, for whatever reason, I take a lot of email grief from the serial whiners. Volunteering to do a bit of work to push them off to a new newsgroup should in no way be considered altruistic or noble. I am doing this for personal and selfish reasons, I like ROFF just the way it is, consider it one of the more helpful and "newbie friendly" of the rec. newsgroups and I am sick and bloody fucking tired of whiners. — Ken Fortenberry

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Don’t go changing,to try and please me,You never worked that hard before.I couldn’t love you any better,I love you just the way you are.Nooooooooooooooooo!     OT:Went to the surf last night for the first time this year.Caught two 20"stripers(no strippers in sight)Had two walk two miles wearing neoprene to get to the good spot.It was worth it.Had the beach all to myself and a glorious sunset to boot.I always get this shock of recognition every year when I catch the first one;I forget just how amazingly strong these fish are.Schoolie fish had my reel screaming and my rod bent over.I can’t imagine what it must be like to land a large one,say 36".Maybe this year I’ll get lucky and find out. Regards,Shawn

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I’d vote yes… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I said that I would crosspost the call for a "show of hands" to a few other newsgroups, but I don’t think it’s worth the effort. Only eleven people besides myself have indicated that they would vote YES if the proposal came to a vote. The list follows, if you indicated or would like to indicate that you would vote YES but don’t see your email addy on the list, reply to this post.

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In addition to Roff, I’ve been frequenting The Virtual Flyshop (Bulletin Board), upon the suggestion of others at Roff.  It provides excellent, mostly on-topic, civil discussions.  Lots of collective fly-fishing knowledge shared. Very newbie friendly.  And I understand that there are other similar resources.  With all these resources available why bother to develop an antiseptic ROFF alternative?  Not that I’m crazy about some of the outright nastiness on ROFF. I am just choosing to ignore it as often as possible. Pat K

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Any tips on where I might find a few good fly fishing spots on the Cape? DMS

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The original message was not a troll, it was a subtle way of telling the whiners to F-off. I was exchanging beery emails with a flyfishing friend from Maine late Friday night and his observations were the impetus for the post Saturday morning. We are both surprised, I think, that the overwhelming consensus is to just leave well enough alone. The serial whiners had me convinced that a vast army of flyfisherfolk with delicate sensibilities were lurking out there but too intimidated to post, much to the detriment of the group. I truly believed it. I said that I would crosspost the call for a "show of hands" to a few other newsgroups, but I don’t think it’s worth the effort. Only eleven people besides myself have indicated that they would vote YES if the proposal came to a vote. The list follows, if you indicated or would like to indicate that you would vote YES but don’t see your email addy on the list, reply to this post. I’m gonna set the ROFF "show of hands" number arbitrarily at 55 before I bother to crosspost. My offer to do the grunt work required to start a RFD and a CFV will eventually expire so "show those hands" and start thinking about moderator(s) if this thing flies. Just as an aside, for whatever reason, I take a lot of email grief from the serial whiners. Volunteering to do a bit of work to push them off to a new newsgroup should in no way be considered altruistic or noble. I am doing this for personal and selfish reasons, I like ROFF just the way it is, consider it one of the more helpful and "newbie friendly" of the rec. newsgroups and I am sick and bloody fucking tired of whiners. — Ken Fortenberry

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Any tips on where I might find a few good fly fishing spots on the Cape? DMS

Dennis I’ve only been to the Cape twice so I’m not what you’d call an authority.  I fished at Barnstable Harbour, Pleasant Bay near Chatham and the Coast Guard Beach on the Atlantic side at the north end. There’s some pictures a some descriptions on mt site under "Trips". Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Any tips on where I might find a few good fly fishing spots on the Cape?

www.flyfishing-the-salt Sorry if anyone else already posted this, but my newserver went down last night and has been acting funny. Mu

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Question:

Agnes, The Sabana Resort (near Desaru) is easily reached by ferry from both Changi Point and Tanah Merah Jetty. I have friends residing in Spore coming over to visit me on Labour days. So, I have make some plans visiting Kota Tinggi area. Here are some of the suggestions: Mutiara Motor Resort in Sedili Kecil, very layback without tourist!! for kampung life. you can cycle, jungle trek, play pools or karaoke…. . A slow walk about in Kg. Sedili Besar, a sleepy fishing village opposite Kuala Sedili. Interesting sights will be ensured. http://www.mutiaramotors.com/html/resort/index_resort.html Also, Pulau Sibu/Tinggi is just a 2-3 hour trip from Kuala Sedili by boat. Check out this site for info : http://www.myoutdoor.com/ about Johor’s Islands nearby Mersing is quiet and beautiful too. I have been to most of the islands and so far has not disappointed me just yet. If you ever go , remember to bring lots of film. You will never regrets. It maybe a bit limited in choices of getting there though. Except Tioman Island. You may take the ferry from Tanah Merah Jetty, Spore and cruise to Berjaya Tioman for diving and romantic holiday. (4hrs) Fly/Drive to Kuala Trengganu, transfer to Merang pier and off to Redang for wonderful days in paradise. You can stay in Berjaya Redang, or the other hotel opposite Redang, Lang Tengah, Crystal clear water, white powdery sandy beaches and colourful fishes swing among the beauitful corals. Do a search in Yahoo, and you will find more than the above choices. If you need further info, do contact me. Good luck Provis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hey guess what, that’s my BF’s hometown!! ))) hmmmm thought tinggi is famous only for its waterfall?? why don’t you try Sebana Resort in Kota Tinggi, Johor, Malaysia heard they have good marina (calm water), 18 hole golf course, apartments, hotel rooms, facilities, etc…

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I was on koh Phi Phi in ‘94, and it was way overtouristed then.  It’s only going to be 6 years worse now. In ‘89 a friend and I needed to find an island fairly close to Bangkok (limited travel time) and went to Koh Si Chang, which was great in the sense that we saw no other white people while there–it seems to be a cross between people who live there and Thais who go for vacation.  If you want something a little less over-westernized, you might try that one. Then agian, that was 10 years ago…. -Doug Magnoli – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It sure is tourisy, and the food isn’t very fantastic. I won’t say its over-built … but it’s definitely on the way to being commercialised. The westerners there look like they’ve been there for so long they have already assimilated the laid-back kampong culture of the island. Anyway, if you really insist on going to Koh Samui, u shd at least go there with a touch of class. The Chaweng Regent is quite good. My stay there was pretty enjoyable. Nice pools, nice beaches and the gym was pretty well equipped. The rooms are pretty well equipped too. However, after watching The Beach, my next pit-stop will be Phi Phi Island. I will plonk myself in the lagoon and yell: I WILL NOT DIE TODAY!!!! GODDAMMIT!!!! at a baby shark. — Cheesy Poofs "Who has a habit now of saying GODDAMMIT!!!!" we had orginally targeted the southern islands like krabi and koh phi phi, but it seems that the monsoon season hits that area from May to October…..whereas for the islands in the gulf, the monsoon is from october to december…not that this really matters, coz there’s been thunderstorms almost daily in koh samui…. phi phi island sounds wonderful, though it’s on its way to another phuket…..if you read the latest news, everyone who has watched the beach, and fallen in love with the place have zoomed in there….last heard that it has become a tourist zoo ) looks like you’d have to find your own little cliff somewhere else ))

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karl, you gotta know.. to some people, having a low paid but honest job is a disgrace… they’d rather be involved in some kinda corrupt bullshit and be a parasitic leech on the people… Excuse me, what kind of professions can you recomend to that people ? Bankrobber, drugdealer, killer…. ? Karl Ah   sorry you must be a gas-fitter! No, but what would be wrong if so ? Karl

delete SPAMMERSDIE for correspondence ICQ:42366740

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Has anyone stayed at Tradewinds on Chaweng Beach, Koh Samui?  Is it a recommended place? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 2 years ago I stayed at the Coral Bay Resort with my family. It is a very nice resort. The food is superb and so is the service. The beach is however too shallow. But if you are satisfied with a swim in the pool the place is a very good choice. We are returning in June-July and will then stay at the High Coral Cove (900 bht/night). Their bungalows are not as fancy as the Coral Bay Resort but they have a fantastic little beach with corals. And the view from the restaurant over the Chaweng beach is stunning. Have a nice trip!! Agnes skrev: hiya, i’m planning a trip to koh samui with my BF from 5-10 May.  I’ve been scouting around for some good resorts that don’t cost too much, and yet have nice facilities…we’re basically looking forward to a peaceful vacation of bumming around the beach and the pool, with lots of sun and sea.  we’re cut down the choices to six, but can’t exactly decide which to go for….has anyone stayed at these hotels, and which of them would be the best choice? any tips on other resorts would be greatly appreciated too.  Thanks!! Chaweng Beach: Chaweng Villa Beach Resort 1,900 Baht/nite The Victorial Resort and Hotel 2,000 Baht/nite Coral Bay Resort 2,000 Baht/nite Lamai Beach: Aloha Resort 1,672 baht/nite Royal Blue Lagoon 1,940 baht/nite Jungle Park Resort 2,050 baht/nite

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I’ve stayed at Chaweng Beach Resort (not sure if it’s the same as Chawend Beach Villa Resort). Paid additional for a room with sea-view – truth is, the block is facing the sea, but not my unit! Later, I found out only 1 unit faces the sea. Felt a little cheated. But Koh Samui is a nice, charming little island, with lots of very friendly people. You’ll enjoy it. Have fun!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hiya, i’m planning a trip to koh samui with my BF from 5-10 May.  I’ve been scouting around for some good resorts that don’t cost too much, and yet have nice facilities…we’re basically looking forward to a peaceful vacation of bumming around the beach and the pool, with lots of sun and sea.  we’re cut down the choices to six, but can’t exactly decide which to go for….has anyone stayed at these hotels, and which of them would be the best choice? any tips on other resorts would be greatly appreciated too.  Thanks!! Chaweng Beach: Chaweng Villa Beach Resort 1,900 Baht/nite The Victorial Resort and Hotel 2,000 Baht/nite Coral Bay Resort 2,000 Baht/nite Lamai Beach: Aloha Resort 1,672 baht/nite Royal Blue Lagoon 1,940 baht/nite Jungle Park Resort 2,050 baht/nite

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Excuse me, what kind of professions can you recomend to that people ? Bankrobber, drugdealer, killer…. ? Karl Ah   sorry you must be a gas-fitter!

No, but what would be wrong if so ? Karl

Response:

much better than phuket… at least you do not get accosted by the people trying to get you into their bars… nice beaches…. laidback as all heck… kinda nice place to go do nothing… yup, i’ve heard that samui is on its way to being a little too commercialised, but i didnt realise it was that bad….from what i read and heard, it seems that samui is much better when compared to phuket and pattaya….i guess that’s the prob with tourism, when some place becomes popular with good reason, it soon loses its charm……

delete SPAMMERSDIE for correspondence ICQ:42366740

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Excuse me, what kind of professions can you recomend to that people ? Bankrobber, drugdealer, killer…. ? Karl

Ah   sorry you must be a gas-fitter!

Response:

  I spent two nights at High Coral Cove in March and then moved out.  The bathroom flooded while showering as the floor was sloped away from the drain, two of the lamps in the room didn’t work, lots of mosquitoes in the evening when sitting on the balcony, and the path lighting wasn’t very good at night. But as you said, good view and good snorkeling.   Not on my recommmended list.        Brewster – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -We are returning in June-July and will then stay at the High Coral Cove (900 bht/night). Their bungalows are not as fancy as the Coral Bay Resort but they have a fantastic little beach with corals. And the view from the restaurant over the Chaweng beach is stunning.

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hey guess what, that’s my BF’s hometown!! ))) hmmmm thought tinggi is famous only for its waterfall?? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – why don’t you try Sebana Resort in Kota Tinggi, Johor, Malaysia heard they have good marina (calm water), 18 hole golf course, apartments, hotel rooms, facilities, etc…

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I read somewhere on the koh samet net (i think) that the prob with malaria has been cleared up, though the other "harmless" mosquitoes are still in full abundance – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – take care, Ko Samet is beautiful and has easy connection with BKK, but when I was there back in 93 I did resist just one night due to the incredible number of mosquitos ( which are of the malaria type…). It’s a pity because the place is fantastic. I dunno if the situation has changed and they solved the mosquito problem, try to get updated info through the Thorn Tree on lonelyplanet.com. joaquim

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2 years ago I stayed at the Coral Bay Resort with my family. It is a very nice resort. The food is superb and so is the service. The beach is however too shallow. But if you are satisfied with a swim in the pool the place is a very good choice. We are returning in June-July and will then stay at the High Coral Cove (900 bht/night). Their bungalows are not as fancy as the Coral Bay Resort but they have a fantastic little beach with corals. And the view from the restaurant over the Chaweng beach is stunning. Have a nice trip!! Agnes skrev: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hiya, i’m planning a trip to koh samui with my BF from 5-10 May.  I’ve been scouting around for some good resorts that don’t cost too much, and yet have nice facilities…we’re basically looking forward to a peaceful vacation of bumming around the beach and the pool, with lots of sun and sea.  we’re cut down the choices to six, but can’t exactly decide which to go for….has anyone stayed at these hotels, and which of them would be the best choice? any tips on other resorts would be greatly appreciated too.  Thanks!! Chaweng Beach: Chaweng Villa Beach Resort 1,900 Baht/nite The Victorial Resort and Hotel 2,000 Baht/nite Coral Bay Resort 2,000 Baht/nite Lamai Beach: Aloha Resort 1,672 baht/nite Royal Blue Lagoon 1,940 baht/nite Jungle Park Resort 2,050 baht/nite

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I was at Koh Samet at Vong Duen Beach on 9 & 10 March 2000. I was there before in october 1999. Then I had a beuatifull time. Now, there are a lot of new restaurants. But don’t go to the hotel-resort Sea Horse Bungelow. It was very, very bad now. A very poor maintenance and expensive for what you get. John joaquim schreef: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  koh samet and koh chang….we finally decided on koh samet, which few tourists venture out to to, and it’s really really great for hanging out and bumming around….. take care, Ko Samet is beautiful and has easy connection with BKK, but when I was there back in 93 I did resist just one night due to the incredible number of mosquitos ( which are of the malaria type…). It’s a pity because the place is fantastic. I dunno if the situation has changed and they solved the mosquito problem, try to get updated info through the Thorn Tree on lonelyplanet.com. joaquim

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take care, Ko Samet is beautiful and has easy connection with BKK, but when I was there back in 93 I did resist just one night due to the incredible number of mosquitos ( which are of the malaria type…). It’s a pity because the place is fantastic. I dunno if the situation has changed and they solved the mosquito problem, try to get updated info through the Thorn Tree on lonelyplanet.com. joaquim

I was there in August 1999 and there were not more mosquitos than in other places. Probably the situation has improved since 1993. — Alfred Molon To reply replace NOSPAM with csi

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I realise that the trip has been put on hold. I would like to say though that Koh Samui is an idyllic islands, and I do not see how any one can be disappointed with it. It has everything restaurants, top hotels, bungalows, amazing beaches, great night life etc. etc. http://www.asiatraveltips.com this will give you a wonderful idea of what it is like. I personally went to Samui January for three weeks and will return whenever I can it is a beautiful place. Please do reconsider Samui as an option. Kindest regards Steven * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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phi phi island sounds wonderful, though it’s on its way to another phuket…..if you read the latest news, everyone who has watched the beach, and fallen in love with the place have zoomed in there….last heard that it has become a tourist zoo ) looks like you’d have to find your own little cliff somewhere else ))

I was in Ko Phi Phi in 1992, and it was already overcrowded…figure out now, after The Beach!!! The problem with Phi Phi is that is really tiny and you can tour it walking in one hour so it gets a tourist zoo very easily. There are some beatiful and unspoilt islands near Phuket,  in the Phang-nga bay: their names are Ko Yao Yai and Ko Yao Noi, southernmost Ko Lanta is a good place. joaquim

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ko Samui is most disappointing. Over-built,  touristy,  Thai food no good,  too many unwashed Western hippies who are normally clerks and gas-fitters when they go back home. Crawling with hookers. There are much better parts of thailand such as Hua Hin, Trang,  even phuket if you choose the correct place yup, i’ve heard that samui is on its way to being a little too commercialised, but i didnt realise it was that bad….from what i read and heard, it seems that samui is much better when compared to phuket and pattaya….i guess that’s the prob with tourism, when some place becomes popular with good reason, it soon loses its charm…… hua hin and trang sounded pretty good, but we’re more interested in isolated beaches cut off from the mainland, more in the likes of koh samet or koh chang….

why don’t you try Sebana Resort in Kota Tinggi, Johor, Malaysia heard they have good marina (calm water), 18 hole golf course, apartments, hotel rooms, facilities, etc…

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THE BOMOH wrote : Ko Samui is most disappointing. Over-built,  touristy,  Thai food no good,  too many unwashed Western hippies who are normally clerks and gas-fitters when they go back home.

Excuse me, what kind of professions can you recomend to that people ? Bankrobber, drugdealer, killer…. ? Karl

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 koh samet and koh chang….we finally decided on koh samet, which few tourists venture out to to, and it’s really really great for hanging out and bumming around…..

take care, Ko Samet is beautiful and has easy connection with BKK, but when I was there back in 93 I did resist just one night due to the incredible number of mosquitos ( which are of the malaria type…). It’s a pity because the place is fantastic. I dunno if the situation has changed and they solved the mosquito problem, try to get updated info through the Thorn Tree on lonelyplanet.com. joaquim

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hiya, i’d like to thank everyone who has posted or emailed their suggestions and comments to me…all your advice was of great help after hearing some negative reviews, we sort of re-considered whether to go to samui….we’re looking for a great place to hang out, with not too many tourists, and it’s disappointing to find out that samui is almost similar to phuket and pattaya…furthermore, samui is really accessible with a direct flight from singapore….. we then considered other islands like koh tao and koh phang-nan (too inaccesible), koh phi phi and koh lanta (bad weather then), koh samet and koh chang….we finally decided on koh samet, which few tourists venture out to, and it’s really really great for hanging out and bumming around….. but then we checked the dates, and darn!!! our plans were messed up again….seems that 5 may is a public holiday, and it falls nicely on fri….that means that it’s gonna be a zoo everywhere during that weekend!!! it was with great sadness that we concluded we won’t be going to thailand this may sorry all!! but all the info is still useful, coz some of our other friends might be going, so we’d forward them all the info….thank you one and all!!! btw, the story has not been concluded yet ) we’d be checking out the malaysian islands instead ) no public holidays during that time, and it’s not yet full-blown tourist season yet, so should be great….we’d be posting another request for help should it be needed )) cheers, and have a great holiday !!!!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -It sure is tourisy, and the food isn’t very fantastic. I won’t say its over-built … but it’s definitely on the way to being commercialised. The westerners there look like they’ve been there for so long they have already assimilated the laid-back kampong culture of the island. Anyway, if you really insist on going to Koh Samui, u shd at least go there with a touch of class. The Chaweng Regent is quite good. My stay there was pretty enjoyable. Nice pools, nice beaches and the gym was pretty well equipped. The rooms are pretty well equipped too. However, after watching The Beach, my next pit-stop will be Phi Phi Island. I will plonk myself in the lagoon and yell: I WILL NOT DIE TODAY!!!! GODDAMMIT!!!! at a baby shark. — Cheesy Poofs "Who has a habit now of saying GODDAMMIT!!!!"

we had orginally targeted the southern islands like krabi and koh phi phi, but it seems that the monsoon season hits that area from May to October…..whereas for the islands in the gulf, the monsoon is from october to december…not that this really matters, coz there’s been thunderstorms almost daily in koh samui…. phi phi island sounds wonderful, though it’s on its way to another phuket…..if you read the latest news, everyone who has watched the beach, and fallen in love with the place have zoomed in there….last heard that it has become a tourist zoo ) looks like you’d have to find your own little cliff somewhere else ))

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Ko Samui is most disappointing. Over-built,  touristy,  Thai food no good,  too many unwashed Western hippies who are normally clerks and gas-fitters when they go back home. Crawling with hookers. There are much better parts of thailand such as Hua Hin, Trang,  even phuket if you choose the correct place

yup, i’ve heard that samui is on its way to being a little too commercialised, but i didnt realise it was that bad….from what i read and heard, it seems that samui is much better when compared to phuket and pattaya….i guess that’s the prob with tourism, when some place becomes popular with good reason, it soon loses its charm…… hua hin and trang sounded pretty good, but we’re more interested in isolated beaches cut off from the mainland, more in the likes of koh samet or koh chang….

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hiya, i’m planning a trip to koh samui with my BF from 5-10 May.  I’ve been scouting around for some good resorts that don’t cost too much, and yet have nice facilities…we’re basically looking forward to a peaceful vacation of bumming around the beach and the pool, with lots of sun and sea.  we’re cut down the choices to six, but can’t exactly decide which to go for….has anyone stayed at these hotels, and which of them would be the best choice?

Ko Samui is most disappointing. Over-built,  touristy,  Thai food no good,  too many unwashed Western hippies who are normally clerks and gas-fitters when they go back home. Crawling with hookers. There are much better parts of thailand such as Hua Hin, Trang,  even phuket if you choose the correct place.

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Ko Samui is most disappointing. Over-built,  touristy,  Thai food no good,  too many unwashed Western hippies who are normally clerks and gas-fitters when they go back home. Crawling with hookers. There are much better parts of thailand such as Hua Hin, Trang,  even phuket if you choose the correct place.

It sure is tourisy, and the food isn’t very fantastic. I won’t say its over-built … but it’s definitely on the way to being commercialised. The westerners there look like they’ve been there for so long they have already assimilated the laid-back kampong culture of the island. Anyway, if you really insist on going to Koh Samui, u shd at least go there with a touch of class. The Chaweng Regent is quite good. My stay there was pretty enjoyable. Nice pools, nice beaches and the gym was pretty well equipped. The rooms are pretty well equipped too. However, after watching The Beach, my next pit-stop will be Phi Phi Island. I will plonk myself in the lagoon and yell: I WILL NOT DIE TODAY!!!! GODDAMMIT!!!! at a baby shark. — Cheesy Poofs "Who has a habit now of saying GODDAMMIT!!!!"

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hiya, i’m planning a trip to koh samui with my BF from 5-10 May.  I’ve been scouting around for some good resorts that don’t cost too much, and yet have nice facilities…we’re basically looking forward to a peaceful vacation of bumming around the beach and the pool, with lots of sun and sea.  we’re cut down the choices to six, but can’t exactly decide which to go for….has anyone stayed at these hotels, and which of them would be the best choice? any tips on other resorts would be greatly appreciated too.  Thanks!! Chaweng Beach: Chaweng Villa Beach Resort 1,900 Baht/nite The Victorial Resort and Hotel 2,000 Baht/nite Coral Bay Resort 2,000 Baht/nite Lamai Beach: Aloha Resort 1,672 baht/nite Royal Blue Lagoon 1,940 baht/nite Jungle Park Resort 2,050 baht/nite

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Question:

That would be interesting… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I want to see you cast THAT setup Big Al

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Howdy All… Last July, I had the pleasure of spending some quality angling time on Yellowstone Lake in Yellowstone National Park. The weather was snipped headed out into the center of the lake. We began trolling from north to south, which was a bit of a chore with the winds blowing as hard as they were. I was the first to feel the tug. Unfortunately, with my slow 4 weight fly rod, it is often difficult to get a good hook set, so the fish got off. Many of you may be asking why I would be using a fly rod to troll with. The reasoning lies in the technique being used to land these cutthroats by the dozens. I learned this technique a few years back from my brother, who in turn learned it from a friend of his. You start with a fly reel loaded up with backing. Then, you tie to the backing 3 or 4 colors of leaded line. Leaded line is simply a lead centered line covered in some type of cloth-like material and is available for a reasonable price at most fishing shops. It has the consistency of soft wire. Lengths of leaded line are measured in colors, which run approximately 4 to 5 yards each. So, for example, if pictures at: http://home.earthlink.net/~reinkings Rick

I want to see you cast THAT setup Big Al

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Howdy All… Last July, I had the pleasure of spending some quality angling time on Yellowstone Lake in Yellowstone National Park. The weather was clear, though a strong breeze was blowing out of the southwest. We rented a boat and headed out into the center of the lake. We began trolling from north to south, which was a bit of a chore with the winds blowing as hard as they were. I was the first to feel the tug. Unfortunately, with my slow 4 weight fly rod, it is often difficult to get a good hook set, so the fish got off. Many of you may be asking why I would be using a fly rod to troll with. The reasoning lies in the technique being used to land these cutthroats by the dozens. I learned this technique a few years back from my brother, who in turn learned it from a friend of his. You start with a fly reel loaded up with backing. Then, you tie to the backing 3 or 4 colors of leaded line. Leaded line is simply a lead centered line covered in some type of cloth-like material and is available for a reasonable price at most fishing shops. It has the consistency of soft wire. Lengths of leaded line are measured in colors, which run approximately 4 to 5 yards each. So, for example, if you have two colors worth of line out, you can make an educated guess that your lure might be running four to six feet deep. Its a handy convention, and it makes keeping track of where the hits are coming from simple. Tie to the end of the leaded line 10 to 15 feet of six or eight pound monofilament. To the end of that tie a muddler’s minnow. I have found that there is no reason to tie a lighter leader to the end of the mono, just tie the fly directly onto the mono. As far as fly size goes, the fish did not seem to be particularly choosy. I fished muddlers ranging from size 4 all the way down to size 12. Over the course of the day I also found no evidence that larger muddlers produced larger fish or that smaller muddlers attracted smaller fish. For those of you who have never caught a Yellowstone Cutthroat, they are a beautiful fish indeed. When I was there, the fish had just finished spawning, and many still bore their spawning colors. Most of the fish we caught were in the 14" to 20" range, and each one put up a good fight. Many even took line. Yellowstone Lake is definitely a lake worth checking into if you enjoy the timelessness of nature and the serenity that it brings. The fact that the cutthroat trout are there, and will readily take a muddler’s minnow just adds to the experience. pictures at: http://home.earthlink.net/~reinkings Rick

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Question:

Sorry about the previous post – I am trying to get used to posting through Netscape and I am making a lot of mistakes. My question is this :         1. When I cast, my flyline and leader go out fine, but my tippet            often lands in jumbled mess. What might I be doing wrong? I                am using a 6wt rod, DT6F line, a 9ft 5X leader, and 5X tippet              (about 18 inches). I normally use size 14 or 16 nymphs and dry            flies. Thanks in advance for any help!

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        1. When I cast, my flyline and leader go out fine, but my tippet            often lands in jumbled mess. What might I be doing wrong? I                am using a 6wt rod, DT6F line, a 9ft 5X leader, and 5X tippet              (about 18 inches). I normally use size 14 or 16 nymphs and dry  

Check that leader is straight before you cast, i.e. pull it through your fingers (or a small piece of rubber) until straight. Leader design should be 40% (of length) stiff butt, 20% floppy tippet, remainder stepping down (say 0.016" to 0.008").  If in doubt, buy famous-brand knotted leaders, e.g. Orvis.  If you knot your own, you can customize fully. Excessive forward push on the casting stroke can cause fly to bounce back on loose loops of tippet (deliberately in some fishing situations.) — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Sorry about the previous post – I am trying to get used to posting through Netscape and I am making a lot of mistakes. My question is this :        1. When I cast, my flyline and leader go out fine, but my tippet           often lands in jumbled mess. What might I be doing wrong? I               am using a 6wt rod, DT6F line, a 9ft 5X leader, and 5X tippet             (about 18 inches). I normally use size 14 or 16 nymphs and dry           flies. Thanks in advance for any help!

Two thoughts Jeff:         1) Try using a heavier leader, some of the tapered variety are good.             This will provide stiffness, which aids the turn over of your             tippet. You can then add your tippet to the end of the leader.             It might be a good idea to use a 5′ leader at first, they are             easier to control, when you have mastered that then progress             to the 9′ leaded.         2) With seeing you cast its difficult to offer advice but a common             fault with  many casting techniques is that the angler casts at             the water rather than at eye level. If when you cast you aim at             the water then the fly line, leader and tippet are not given             sufficent time to turn over, resulting in your line landing in a             heap on the water. If you cast aiming at the horizon or eye level             this will give time for the turn over to be completed and your             tackle to land in a straight line. I hope they might prove to be of some help for you.         Tight lines                         Chris

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Question:

 bring and where to go.  I don’t mind traveling an hour to get to a good  fishing spot.

You’ll have to travel more than an hour.  The nearest stream worth fishing is probably the South Branch of the Au Sable, about three hours north, near Roscommon.  I don’t remember what hatches would be proceeding then — standard midsummer stuff.

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I will be in Auburn Hills, Michigan (near Pontiac, MI) on business from July 17 through July 22.  I would like to bring my fly rod with me and do some fishing.  Can someone out there give me some advice on what flys to bring and where to go.  I don’t mind traveling an hour to get to a good fishing spot.

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Question:

: : I’ll send you money if you send me time and good health. Name your price. : good health is just luck, but money could sure ease out the time part… : 200K and some plane tickets to Valpraiso would be a good start. Of  Which Valpraiso are you speaking of.   : course, I’ll need some new baggy shorts and some t-shirts with lewd : sayings… : TimWalker Bryan

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I’ll always be willing to trade money for a few hours chest deep in the surf ! Doesn’t always pan out though. Today I was supposed to fly to Martha’s Vineyard with a pilot friend to fish Lobsterville beach for the day, but got scheduled for a teleconference so I had to bag it. Yes, I could have done a cellular thing, but to me a scheduled interruption during fishing defeats the whole purpose. Well turns out it’s pouring, and I’m not sure my friend got out, as the ceiling’s pretty low here. Consoled myself by going down to Hampton Beach and making a few casts in the surf for lunch hour. No fish, but the combined smells of salt water and dripping rain gear have the most rejuvenating effect on me ! And people wonder why I find it necessay to live, work, and spend my entire existence within 3 miles of the ocean :-                                                                 jc

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: I’ll always be willing to trade money for a few hours chest deep in the surf ! : Doesn’t always pan out though. Today I was supposed to fly to Martha’s : Vineyard with a pilot friend to fish Lobsterville beach for the day, but got : scheduled for a teleconference so I had to bag it. Yes, I could have done a : cellular thing, but to me a scheduled interruption during fishing defeats : the whole purpose. Well turns out it’s pouring, and I’m not sure my friend : got out, as the ceiling’s pretty low here. Consoled myself by going down to : Hampton Beach and making a few casts in the surf for lunch hour. No fish, : but the combined smells of salt water and dripping rain gear have the most : rejuvenating effect on me ! And people wonder why I find it necessay to live, : work, and spend my entire existence within 3 miles of the ocean :- :                                                               jc :                                                      

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God I’m sick of work.  Let’s go fishin’… Any billionaires on the net ? Release me from this toil ! Never mind me…just having a mid-life crisis in cyberspace… Tim Walker

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: I’ll send you money if you send me time and good health. Name your price. good health is just luck, but money could sure ease out the time part… 200K and some plane tickets to Valpraiso would be a good start. Of course, I’ll need some new baggy shorts and some t-shirts with lewd sayings… TimWalker

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: God I’m sick of work.  Let’s go fishin’… Any billionaires on the net ? : Release me from this toil ! I’ll send you money if you send me time and good health. Name your price.                                                        __ John Quill Taylor                                     / / Writer at Large                                      / /   Hewlett-Packard, Storage Systems Division    __     /_/ / Boise, Idaho U.S.A.                         /_/  __ _ Telephone: (208) 396-2328 (MDT = GMT – 6)     /  \  / Snail Mail: Hewlett-Packard                    / \             11413 Chinden Blvd                 \             Boise, Idaho 83714                   _/             Mailstop 230                            _/                                                   _/       "When in doubt, do as doubters do." -jqt                   haiti, rwanda, cuba, bosnia, … we have a list,              where is our schindler?

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