Question:

This last weekend I was out fishing (float tubing) on a high altitude lake with a chilly wind (about 30mph and 38oF). The lake was white capping with 1-3 waves.  The water temp was 38o-40oF and I was out for 3 and half hours straight.  Came in when it got dark. I got quite a work out but it was kind of fun. Got some strikes and hook ups in the process. I was a bit exhausted and cold when I came in but all-in-all in pretty good shape.  I was dressed for the weather even though the wind and the cold water started to creep in after awhile.  I was with friends so they knew where I was at. More and more I find myself going fishing when it’s snowing, raining, or wind blowing hard.  I don’t mess with lightning.  The occasional nice day is usually when the fishing is slow.  Some people say I’m nuts.  I’ve read stories where that kind of fishing kind of normal for fly fishers.  I don’t (in my mind) take unnecessary risks. Is this about the norm for you guys?  What kind of float tube or fishing accidents have you experienced?  What were the conditions? Eric

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be sure to know the symptoms of hypothermia Not a fishing story, but, I was duck hunting on the Chesapeake Bay and "felt fine"  I "wasn’t even cold anymore" the two guys that found me say  I was randomly moving decoys and my walking was very wobbly, my speech badly slurred, yet I still "argued" that I was just fine they forced me into a hut and got me warmed They told me a little about the dangers and after I read up, I realized they had saved my life …. I was probably minutes from collapse I’m nearly 40 years older now and don’t find the cold as much fun,  but I’m very aware of shivers, numbness and such. go out, damn right, but be careful and keep a clear margin of safety….. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

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another one<g … this time the San Francisco Bay we went out of Alviso and got caught in a very powerful storm when we got back to the dock, I could NOT work the keys to open my car Thank god a guy drove up "checking on his boat in the Marina" and helped me get the car open and started and pull my buddy out of the boat ( he could get out under own power ) we left boat, motor, decoys, guns and all and went to Fremont for coffee and food it was all there when we got back, but we were VERY aware that we had been one small problem from losing everything … a stalled outboard would have killed us —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

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was supposed to be get the car open and started and pull my buddy out of the boat ( he couldn’t get out under own power )

the waves and wind had filled his waders, he was too cold to get them off, alone  I had taken mine off when they were about half full, and a sinking boat seemed very likely.  I remember telling him why I was taking mine off and saying  "if this boat goes down, you won’t want them on"

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Eric: Lately it seems like the "nastier" the conditions, the more I enjoy it. First of all, it does cut down on the crowds. Second, if you are prepared for it with the right gear (and the gear keeps getting better all the time), even "nasty" conditions aren’t too bad, within reason. I guess the key is that "within reason" thing.  And I have indeed caught my biggest fish in what I used to consider nasty conditions. Finally, biting insects are not a problem! A guide once told me "There is no such thing as "bad conditions", there is just "bad gear". Preparation and common sense are paramount. Jim Ray

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This last weekend I was out fishing (float tubing) on a high altitude lake with a chilly wind (about 30mph and 38oF). The lake was white capping with 1-3 waves.  The water temp was 38o-40oF and I was out for 3 and half hours straight.  Came in when it got dark. I got quite a work out but it was kind of fun. Got some strikes and hook ups in the process. I was a bit exhausted and cold when I came in but all-in-all in pretty good shape.  I was dressed for the weather even though the wind and the cold water started to creep in after awhile.  I was with friends so they knew where I was at. More and more I find myself going fishing when it’s snowing, raining, or wind blowing hard.  I don’t mess with lightning.  The occasional nice day is usually when the fishing is slow.  Some people say I’m nuts.  I’ve read stories where that kind of fishing kind of normal for fly fishers.  I don’t (in my mind) take unnecessary risks. Is this about the norm for you guys?  What kind of float tube or fishing accidents have you experienced?  What were the conditions? Eric

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I leave out words too so I knew what you meant. I might have had a mild case of hypothermia.  I was a little dizzy and disoriented when I got out of the water but I thought was from bobbing around like cork for three hours.  Also, the wind was down about 10mph and the temp about 35o. It gets cold at sunset in the mountains.  Even though I have neoprene waders the wind on those wet waders made it feel bitter cold. The two things that crossed my mind that would have been a major bummer.  1) The main bladder of my float tube fail and 2) get broadside into the wind in a big wave and get flipped. For number 2, I kept my tube about 45 degrees into the wind so I wouldn’t capsize.  The other thing I found was that I could actually fin into the wind and go somewhere that way.  The wind was too strong to try kick straight into it.  I kind of zig-zagged like a sailboat does.  I had to go back across a cove against the wind to get out of the water.   was supposed to be   get the car open and started and pull my buddy out of the boat ( he couldn’t   get out under own power )     the waves and wind had filled his waders, he was too cold to get them off, alone    I had taken mine off when they were about half full, and a sinking boat seemed very likely.  I remember telling him why I was taking mine off and saying  "if this boat goes down, you won’t want them on"

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I wear an CO2 inflatable vest or carry a regular life vest from my big boat, depending on conditions.   And, I don’t feel a bit "wimpy" doing so. Another "not fishing" story.   I train retrievers for field trials, and such.   One summer day a client was working his dog and I wanted to plant a "blind retrieve" for the animal.   I figured I’d go out 30 feet from shore and prop the dummy on a branch of a submerged tree, then run the dog from the other side of the lake.   So wearing blue jeans and a summer shirt I swam out the 30 feet and started back …. tell you what I BARELY made it …. those jeans soaked up water and I could just, …just … stay above the surface enough to breath.   I remember thinking, "F–k, I’m going to drown within 15 feet of shore, in sight of a dozen people."    Next summer try to swim a pool wearing soaked cold weather gear, it will open you eyes, I bet.

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Is this about the norm for you guys?  What kind of float tube or fishing accidents have you experienced?  What were the conditions?

Went through a microburst on Rock Creek once. It got REAL interesting when 2′ to 3′ diameter Doug Fir started dropping into the river. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

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Ain’t no gear to protect ya from that Brian.                    Handyman Mike           Standing in a river waving a stick

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More and more I find myself going fishing when it’s snowing, raining, or wind blowing hard.  I don’t mess with lightning.  The occasional nice day is usually when the fishing is slow.  Some people say I’m nuts.  I’ve read stories where that kind of fishing kind of normal for fly fishers.  I don’t (in my mind) take unnecessary risks.

The hardest conditions make the most enduring memories. Is this about the norm for you guys?  What kind of float tube or fishing accidents have you experienced?  What were the conditions?

Last year I packed my float tube to a high lake in mid October. There was about 6" of snow that obiterated the "trail" (to use the term loosely), so I just followed my dogs through and over and under the downed timber, hoping for the best. The fresh snow was magical. I thought it meant fair weather, but a front moved in. By the time I reached the lake it was well below freezing, and the lake, which I’d never seen before, looked like an off-color POS. I was so cold that I had to build a fire, which took a couple of hours. After fortifying myself around the fire with some coffee, whiskey, M&Ms, and maybe one or two other substances, I put on my waders, blew up the float tube, rigged my rod, put on my fins, and set out for the drop off below the rock face near the inlet. Maybe another hour. It was the hottest lake fishing I’ve ever had, but I could only stand to be in the water for 45 minutes. Ice shelves were accreting along the shore. Then I had a two-hour hike back to the "trail" head, into a stiff wind. Great trip.

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Eric More and more I find myself going fishing when it’s snowing, Eric raining, or wind blowing hard. I like that too, as long as I’m fishing in a place where a warm cabin is waiting for me at the end of the day. Makes you feel like you’re *really* alive. But if I’m staying in a tent, forget it. Gearwise, one of the worst things you can have is a pair of too small boots. My previous boots were too small for winter fishing. On the last day of the Baltic clave, I was fishing really hard (had not caught any fish, damn Marcel had picked them all up under our noses). Anyway, I was standing in the 5C (41F) water in the Baltic sea for hours. When I decided to quit, I couldn’t feel my feet anymore. They really had an out of body -experience, no tactile sense left whatsoever. — Jarmo Hurri address or apply rot13 to header email address.

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Went through a microburst on Rock Creek once.

It sounds like that’s a once in a lifetime type of experience.  I work for an electric utility and I’ve seen what microbursts can do to wood poles.  I can imagine what it would be like in the forest.

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Went through a microburst on Rock Creek once. It sounds like that’s a once in a lifetime type of experience.  I work for an electric utility and I’ve seen what microbursts can do to wood poles. I can imagine what it would be like in the forest.

I pulled the photo and related newspaper article about this incident and put them on my website. There is a link to "Rock Creek Microburst". It will give an idea of what kind of damage it did. Be warned that my scans of the newspaper clippings are not great and seem to be rather large so the page may load slow. Anyone have any tips for scanning/posting these? — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

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Went through a microburst on Rock Creek once. It sounds like that’s a once in a lifetime type of experience.  I work for an electric utility and I’ve seen what microbursts can do to wood poles. I can imagine what it would be like in the forest. I pulled the photo and related newspaper article about this incident and put them on my website. There is a link to "Rock Creek Microburst". It will give an idea of what kind of damage it did. Be warned that my scans of the newspaper clippings are not great and seem to be rather large so the page may load slow. Anyone have any tips for scanning/posting these?

Phbbtt! A mere bagatelle Took all of three seconds to load the full page (I love broadband!!) I stick a sheet of flat black paper behind newsprint when scanning, it greatly reduces that "bleed through" effect from the reverse side print. Aside from that, it’s hard to get around that artifacting when the compression is set so high. /daytripper

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Question:

A little update on some info.  I spoke to Jeffrey Cardenas (The Saltwater Angler, www.saltwaterangler.com) and they aren’t doing anything in Abacos currently, but this was suggested (with no comment, good or bad): www.abacoflyfish.com TC, R

LOL! My wife Googled that link up last week. One of the more glossy guide sites I’ve seen, but the prices are in line with the area from other stuff we’ve read… We’re planning on 10 days down there; I figure I’ll use a guide for a day or two and then see how I do on my own. From my admittedly limited experience, if you can see bonefish* the guide is just a boat driver. And the boat rental prices down there are very reasonable… * non-trivial, kinda like those dithered-to-death "stereo images", you either get it, or you utterly don’t. I was lucky and had no problem seeing the bones in Anegada, hopefully the water is as clear and the sand flats as clean in the Abacos… /daytripper (Now if I could just spring free to fish *this* month!)

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Fabulous place Fell and broke my thumb the day before I had 2 days booked with a guide called sawyer ( I Think) – fortunately he had 2 novices waiting to go and who took my cancellation – both had bones 5lb + Enjoy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The SO has proposed Green Turtle Cay in the Abacos for our annual island trip next April. She’s been seeing lots of positive bonefishing references so she figures it’s a lock for me to go along with her schemes We’d stay at the Green Turtle Club resort/marina, fwiw. http://www.greenturtleclub.com/ And I’m looking for anyone with any direct experience with the eastern Abaco islands, the Green Turtle Club, and more importantly, the fishing! Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones

– Charles Reaves

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From my admittedly limited experience, if you can see bonefish* the guide is just a boat driver. And the boat rental prices down there are very reasonable…

They are, but you need to know the area, tides, etc., to avoid a lot of fruitless searching, and avoid tide and wind situations.  Make sure to get charts and pay particular attention to wind and tide directions and tide times. * non-trivial, kinda like those dithered-to-death "stereo images", you either get it, or you utterly don’t. I was lucky and had no problem seeing the bones in Anegada, hopefully the water is as clear and the sand flats as clean in the Abacos…

It is at least as clear as the VI.  I once dropped a lighter off a dock in the Abacos, and it could be seen on the bottom (about 20 plus feet of water – I didn’t realize quite how deep until I got down there <G). I’ve got UW pics of palometa and bones are as clear as anything taken in a perfectly-maintained swimming pool. /daytripper (Now if I could just spring free to fish *this* month!)

Er, you might wanna wait to NEXT month or the spring…<G TC, R

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From my admittedly limited experience, if you can see bonefish* the guide is just a boat driver. And the boat rental prices down there are very reasonable… They are, but you need to know the area, tides, etc., to avoid a lot of fruitless searching, and avoid tide and wind situations.  Make sure to get charts and pay particular attention to wind and tide directions and tide times.

That’s what the first couple of days out with the guide are for… I’ll order up charts, especially given the boat rental, I’ll have a gps and a tide table, and hopefully things will be clear enough after a couple of days out. Granted my shallow experience (<= feeble pun) but fishing for bones isn’t very high on the rocket science scale – there are a couple of key details about bones that quickly narrow down the places one should bother working, and after a few more web hits I’m starting to get the feel for how small and *close* together the Abacos are, so I’m reasonably confident that if there are fish to be had I’ll stumble onto ‘em before too long * non-trivial, kinda like those dithered-to-death "stereo images", you either get it, or you utterly don’t. I was lucky and had no problem seeing the bones in Anegada, hopefully the water is as clear and the sand flats as clean in the Abacos… It is at least as clear as the VI.  I once dropped a lighter off a dock in the Abacos, and it could be seen on the bottom (about 20 plus feet of water – I didn’t realize quite how deep until I got down there <G). I’ve got UW pics of palometa and bones are as clear as anything taken in a perfectly-maintained swimming pool.

Excellent! I might have to spring for an underwater digicam! More toys! /daytripper (Now if I could just spring free to fish *this* month!) Er, you might wanna wait to NEXT month or the spring…<G

end around here. /daytripper (A shrink could buy his next house on my tab…)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – From my admittedly limited experience, if you can see bonefish* the guide is just a boat driver. And the boat rental prices down there are very reasonable… They are, but you need to know the area, tides, etc., to avoid a lot of fruitless searching, and avoid tide and wind situations.  Make sure to get charts and pay particular attention to wind and tide directions and tide times. That’s what the first couple of days out with the guide are for… I’ll order up charts, especially given the boat rental, I’ll have a gps and a tide table, and hopefully things will be clear enough after a couple of days out.

Weeel, it’s not _quite_ that simple.  You’ve got the potential for 4 foot changes, and it isn’t just knowing where, it’s knowing when and where, and where the fish are moving.  The "no-boat" flats, of course, are easy (and there are a coupla-several miles of these at GTC), but with a bare boat, it can get tricky insofar as being where you want/need to be when.   You might consider renting a boat for one day, you and the wife going for a ride, and getting familiar with things.  Then get a guide for a couple of days, and rent again for a couple of days (or more – check on a weekly rate – if so, you can avoid ferry schedules altogether, weather depending).  Plus, while only natives can officially guide you, anyone can go fishing with you, and if you have boat access the entire trip, meeting a few folks from cruising boats might be productive.  And you might want to take a lighter setup for palometa, etc. (little permits, sorta like saltwater panfish) during bonefish lulls, and take some steel wire, etc. for barracuda (highly recommended for sport and dinner). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Granted my shallow experience (<= feeble pun) but fishing for bones isn’t very high on the rocket science scale – there are a couple of key details about bones that quickly narrow down the places one should bother working, and after a few more web hits I’m starting to get the feel for how small and *close* together the Abacos are, so I’m reasonably confident that if there are fish to be had I’ll stumble onto ‘em before too long * non-trivial, kinda like those dithered-to-death "stereo images", you either get it, or you utterly don’t. I was lucky and had no problem seeing the bones in Anegada, hopefully the water is as clear and the sand flats as clean in the Abacos… It is at least as clear as the VI.  I once dropped a lighter off a dock in the Abacos, and it could be seen on the bottom (about 20 plus feet of water – I didn’t realize quite how deep until I got down there <G). I’ve got UW pics of palometa and bones are as clear as anything taken in a perfectly-maintained swimming pool. Excellent! I might have to spring for an underwater digicam! More toys!

Fuji makes a disposable UW that actually works pretty good if you just want "quick and easy" – get them in the States.  Also, get a couple of decent but inexpensive masks and snorkels (also in the States) unless you are absolutely a "dry head."  And if you dive, DON’T take anything but Hawaiian slings (with extra tubing) – anything else is a no-no. TC, R

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s what the first couple of days out with the guide are for… I’ll order up charts, especially given the boat rental, I’ll have a gps and a tide table, and hopefully things will be clear enough after a couple of days out. Weeel, it’s not _quite_ that simple.  You’ve got the potential for 4 foot changes, and it isn’t just knowing where, it’s knowing when and where, and where the fish are moving.  The "no-boat" flats, of course, are easy (and there are a coupla-several miles of these at GTC), but with a bare boat, it can get tricky insofar as being where you want/need to be when.  

We’ll be getting the boat for the middle 7 days out of the 10 we’ll be there, looks like a 20-something foot Wellcraft CC with a 150 and t-top. Nice hefty boat – if it ends up high and dry at low tide it won’t be moved, that’s for sure. But we want to be able to roam freely for the duration, we usually take our own boat wherever we go on summer vacations, and it is usually at the center of the best times we have. I’ve been looking at satellite images of the area to the west of the reef through the island chain over to the big island and then on to the Marls, and it looks like flat water everywhere west of the reef would be the rule unless the weather is coming due north/south. You might consider renting a boat for one day, you and the wife going for a ride, and getting familiar with things.  Then get a guide for a couple of days, and rent again for a couple of days (or more – check on a weekly rate – if so, you can avoid ferry schedules altogether, weather depending).  Plus, while only natives can officially guide you, anyone can go fishing with you, and if you have boat access the entire trip, meeting a few folks from cruising boats might be productive.  And you might want to take a lighter setup for palometa, etc. (little permits, sorta like saltwater panfish) during bonefish lulls, and take some steel wire, etc. for barracuda (highly recommended for sport and dinner).

Are there any actual permits/licences one must obtain for fishing – either on foot or in a boat? That’s usually something I forget until the last day – so I’m getting a bit of a jump on things this time… /daytripper (might actually go fishing this weekend! Whoa!

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s what the first couple of days out with the guide are for… I’ll order up charts, especially given the boat rental, I’ll have a gps and a tide table, and hopefully things will be clear enough after a couple of days out. Weeel, it’s not _quite_ that simple.  You’ve got the potential for 4 foot changes, and it isn’t just knowing where, it’s knowing when and where, and where the fish are moving.  The "no-boat" flats, of course, are easy (and there are a coupla-several miles of these at GTC), but with a bare boat, it can get tricky insofar as being where you want/need to be when.   We’ll be getting the boat for the middle 7 days out of the 10 we’ll be there, looks like a 20-something foot Wellcraft CC with a 150 and t-top. Nice hefty boat – if it ends up high and dry at low tide it won’t be moved, that’s for sure. But we want to be able to roam freely for the duration, we usually take our own boat wherever we go on summer vacations, and it is usually at the center of the best times we have.

Heck, with that, you don’t need to worry about no steekin’ ferries…plus, that’ll allow quite a variety of fishing – you might wish to take non-FFing tackle, as well. Are there any actual permits/licences one must obtain for fishing – either on foot or in a boat? That’s usually something I forget until the last day – so I’m getting a bit of a jump on things this time…

You get them at Customs, so you don’t have much of choice, unless you wanna fly over early to get one…<G.  Ask for a "sportfishing permit" – it’s around 20-25USD.  I don’t know the status of the boat you’re renting, and with a guide, or on a Bahamian charter, you don’t need one, but if I were in your shoes, I’d just get the thing and be done with it. Bahamian Customs and other LE bodies can be a weird thing for the first-time tourist, so don’t act amused or surprised at any, er, "simple ways."  Make sure you have a couple of hundred USD in tens and twenties for the various fees, "taxes," etc. (in and out for you both, and I don’t mean bribes – it just speeds things up to have smaller bills at the ready).  Up until recently, "Customs" at the MH airport was a card table with a very friendly guy who always told you that you had nothing to declare, in and out, and to enjoy your stay…<G.  The outers particularly, and the Bahamas in general, are pretty laid back when it comes to sensible tourists who obviously plan on spending money.  My father is there quite often, and the only "trouble" in all the years of our family going was that he was pickpocketed once in Nassau, realized it as it happened, tried to grab the guy, who ran.  He then had to catch up to some folks who also gave chase and caught the guy so they didn’t beat him senseless before the cops came.  They made the guy give back the wallet and apologize in between blows. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -/daytripper (might actually go fishing this weekend! Whoa!

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I’ve done both, and am fairly familiar with out islands of the Bahamas. As to the Green Turtle Club itself, the food is good, the dockage reasonable, an we’ve had a good time when we’ve been.

We must have been there at different times. My trip 5 years ago provided horrible overcooked food at typical high prices for the area. Other dining options are limited except for a 3 mile golf cart ride to New Plymouth. On a good day the smoke from the dump goes out to sea while Brendle, the dive boat captain, will hit on anything with a skirt. My favorite place in the area is Hopetown and Elbow Cay with a little more to do and the variety to keep the trip interesting. Some cottage rentals offer an ocean view and a harbor view. I’ve never bonefished the area, but from what I’ve heard a good guide will be a big plus. A good plan is to rent a Boston Whaler and with Elbow Cay smack in the middle you can easily cover a good portion of the Abaco Sea. Marsh Harbor is just west with great diving down at Sandy Cay and an artist colony all the way south (Little Harbor?). Whatever you choose, enjoy the trip and post pics. Drew

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I’ve done both, and am fairly familiar with out islands of the Bahamas. As to the Green Turtle Club itself, the food is good, the dockage reasonable, an we’ve had a good time when we’ve been. We must have been there at different times. My trip 5 years ago provided horrible overcooked food at typical high prices for the area. Other dining options are limited except for a 3 mile golf cart ride to New Plymouth. On a good day the smoke from the dump goes out to sea while Brendle, the dive boat captain, will hit on anything with a skirt.

Are you sure you aren’t thinking of the other "resort" there, the Bluff House?  Of course, as always, YMMV. My favorite place in the area is Hopetown and Elbow Cay with a little more to do and the variety to keep the trip interesting. Some cottage rentals offer an ocean view and a harbor view. I’ve never bonefished the area, but from what I’ve heard a good guide will be a big plus. A good plan is to rent a Boston Whaler and with Elbow Cay smack in the middle you can easily cover a good portion of the Abaco Sea. Marsh Harbor is just west with great diving down at Sandy Cay and an artist colony all the way south (Little Harbor?).

I would agree that basing at Marsh Harbour is _probably_ a better plan for most who are staying on land. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Whatever you choose, enjoy the trip and post pics. Drew

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We usually do these trips in April, usually the first week after the "high season".

…and…in your case, that would be when? <g jeff

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We must have been there at different times. My trip 5 years ago provided horrible overcooked food at typical high prices for the area. Other dining options are limited except for a 3 mile golf cart ride to New Plymouth. On a good day the smoke from the dump goes out to sea while Brendle, the dive boat captain, will hit on anything with a skirt. Are you sure you aren’t thinking of the other "resort" there, the Bluff House?  Of course, as always, YMMV.

Nope. I’m speaking of the one right down on the water. Did eat at the Bluff House once, but it was their weekly BBQ. Not bad, but still the options are limited on that end of the cay IMO. Maybe we hit them on a bad week. My favorite place in the area is Hopetown and Elbow Cay with a little more to do and the variety to keep the trip interesting. Some cottage rentals offer an ocean view and a harbor view. I’ve never bonefished the area, but from what I’ve heard a good guide will be a big plus. A good plan is to rent a Boston Whaler and with Elbow Cay smack in the middle you can easily cover a good portion of the Abaco Sea. Marsh Harbor is just west with great diving down at Sandy Cay and an artist colony all the way south (Little Harbor?). I would agree that basing at Marsh Harbour is _probably_ a better plan for most who are staying on land.

But Marsh Harbor doesn’t give you the ocean and diving right off the beach. Hmm. ‘Bout time for another trip…. I’m out of 222s (a good pain reliever). Drew

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A little update on some info.  I spoke to Jeffrey Cardenas (The Saltwater Angler, www.saltwaterangler.com) and they aren’t doing anything in Abacos currently, but this was suggested (with no comment, good or bad): www.abacoflyfish.com TC, R

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I would agree that basing at Marsh Harbour is _probably_ a better plan for most who are staying on land. But Marsh Harbor doesn’t give you the ocean and diving right off the beach. Hmm. ‘Bout time for another trip…. I’m out of 222s (a good pain reliever).

Well, maybe not like the cays, but Marsh Harbour, is, well, a harbor, so there’s plenty of water.  But as you point out, (land)basing from one of the cays limits you in other ways, sometimes not well-taken by those who wish varied activity over a 10-day trip.  From MN, you can easily get to just about anywhere in the Abacos via ferry for a, pardon the pun, day trip, and while Dave fishes, his wife can shop, tour, etc.  - IIRC, she isn’t a fisher?  IOW, from MH, you can just go wherever whatever the first ferry that happens to be handy is going and likely find something, but at the cays, you might have to plan, call/radio, and/or wait, and you can just about do/see all there is to do/see in GTC in about a day and a half if you wish to "go and do." Now, all that said, I would not recommend basing from Treasure Cay (or even bothering to go for more than a half-day) as, IMO, it’s like a mini-Freeport and likely to eventually screw up the immediate surrounding area of Abacos.  Hopefully, it’ll take it in the shorts again, and this time, they’ll tear the whole flockin’ place down and be done with it. As to the codeine pills, I don’t like ‘em or trust ‘em, but ‘tripper oughta love ‘em…<G.  I think you can get a lower-strength Tylenol 3 (Tylenol 2?) in the States with a prescription.  My father swears by them, but all they do for me is make me sleepy. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Drew

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Well, maybe not like the cays, but Marsh Harbour, is, well, a harbor, so

To me, Hope Town is prettier with almost the same frequency of ferry service. Now, all that said, I would not recommend basing from Treasure Cay (or

Not even worth the time to even go there. As to the codeine pills, I don’t like ‘em or trust ‘em, but ‘tripper oughta love ‘em…<G.  I think you can get a lower-strength Tylenol 3

Codeine works different on different people. For those who may benefit it is legal to bring in 100 tablets per person. Drew

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, maybe not like the cays, but Marsh Harbour, is, well, a harbor, so To me, Hope Town is prettier with almost the same frequency of ferry service. Now, all that said, I would not recommend basing from Treasure Cay (or Not even worth the time to even go there. As to the codeine pills, I don’t like ‘em or trust ‘em, but ‘tripper oughta love ‘em…<G.  I think you can get a lower-strength Tylenol 3 Codeine works different on different people. For those who may benefit it is legal to bring in 100 tablets per person. Drew

I’m surrounded by lightweights!  ;-) From the years of suffering with that damaged disc that was cleaned up this spring I squirreled away enough stuff to whack a herd of rhinos for a week with a multi-colored hail of doses. MMMmmm…doses….! And none of it has that godawful liver-killing should-never-have-passed-muster-with-the-FDA Tylenol. /daytripper (Go big or go home: Oxycodone and Oxycontin rule!  ;-)

Response:

We usually do these trips in April, usually the first week after the "high season". …and…in your case, that would be when? <g jeff

Well…um….that would be…er…well….hmmm…. /daytripper ("Quickly! To the laboratory!")

Response:

The SO has proposed Green Turtle Cay in the Abacos for our annual island trip next April. She’s been seeing lots of positive bonefishing references so she figures it’s a lock for me to go along with her schemes We’d stay at the Green Turtle Club resort/marina, fwiw. http://www.greenturtleclub.com/ And I’m looking for anyone with any direct experience with the eastern Abaco islands, the Green Turtle Club, and more importantly, the fishing! Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones

Response:

Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones

    a former law partner of mine has often visited his father’s "cottage" on green turtle cay.  i will try to check with him and report back. yfitons wayno

Response:

Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones    a former law partner of mine has often visited his father’s "cottage" on green turtle cay.  i will try to check with him and report back. yfitons wayno

Thanks mfitons!

Response:

well now… this sounds like an opportunity for several of us with SOs(note the lack of apostrophe) to get some SO approval… so, when will you and your wife be sponsoring this vacation a/k/a excuse for bonefishing? jeff (who knows somebody who knows somebody thats got an abacos spot) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The SO has proposed Green Turtle Cay in the Abacos for our annual island trip next April. She’s been seeing lots of positive bonefishing references so she figures it’s a lock for me to go along with her schemes We’d stay at the Green Turtle Club resort/marina, fwiw. http://www.greenturtleclub.com/ And I’m looking for anyone with any direct experience with the eastern Abaco islands, the Green Turtle Club, and more importantly, the fishing! Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones

Response:

The SO has proposed Green Turtle Cay in the Abacos for our annual island trip next April. She’s been seeing lots of positive bonefishing references so she figures it’s a lock for me to go along with her schemes We’d stay at the Green Turtle Club resort/marina, fwiw. http://www.greenturtleclub.com/ And I’m looking for anyone with any direct experience with the eastern Abaco islands, the Green Turtle Club, and more importantly, the fishing! Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback.

I’ve done both, and am fairly familiar with out islands of the Bahamas. As to the Green Turtle Club itself, the food is good, the dockage reasonable, an we’ve had a good time when we’ve been.  I glanced at the site, and I’d say it’s pretty representative – in fact, I think I have some pictures taken in the dining room and patio area, and they look a lot like those on the site.   Really, it depends on what you want.  If you want moderate isolation, Green Turtle is fairly so, but not ridiculously so.  If you want a little more to do, and don’t want a boat, you could stay at Marsh Harbour and ferry to the Cays (Green Turtle has a ferry service from MH to GTC, and there are plenty of ferry services around the Abacos). Also, GTC has several other accommodation options, such as cottages and houses, that I see in a newspaper from earlier in the year. The outers are a little different from the "tourist" island areas like Freeport and Nassau, and, IMO, are like no other area in the world.  You have yachts (and I mean YACHTS) that cruise the area, but it is all pretty casual and laid-back.  If you want more info on the area, drop me an email.   IMO, the best deal going in places like the Abacos, USVI/BVI, etc. is to rent a boat (pref. sail, but a trawler if you must) and cruise the islands.  The general area is easy sailing (although you must pay attention to tide times) with lots of areas to visit, dive, fish, party, or whatever.  Room rates run 200.00-plus USD a day, plus taxes, additional charges, meal plans, etc., and for about the same money, you can get a boat – of course, YMMV.  If you are interested, Moorings has a location in MH, or check any of the boating/sailing mags like Motorboating & Sailing, Yachting, Sailing, etc. TC, R PS – FWIW, the members of certain yacht clubs get discounts at many of the clubs in the Bahamas, or at least reciprocation, and that may be worth looking into, if applicable for you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -/daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The SO has proposed Green Turtle Cay in the Abacos for our annual island trip next April. She’s been seeing lots of positive bonefishing references so she figures it’s a lock for me to go along with her schemes We’d stay at the Green Turtle Club resort/marina, fwiw. http://www.greenturtleclub.com/ And I’m looking for anyone with any direct experience with the eastern Abaco islands, the Green Turtle Club, and more importantly, the fishing! Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones well now… this sounds like an opportunity for several of us with SOs(note the lack of apostrophe) to get some SO approval… so, when will you and your wife be sponsoring this vacation a/k/a excuse for bonefishing? jeff (who knows somebody who knows somebody thats got an abacos spot)

We usually do these trips in April, usually the first week after the "high season". We’re still shopping around the Abacos but I think Herself has seen enough to make her "half" of the decision… /daytripper (that would be the big half, of course

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The SO has proposed Green Turtle Cay in the Abacos for our annual island trip next April. She’s been seeing lots of positive bonefishing references so she figures it’s a lock for me to go along with her schemes We’d stay at the Green Turtle Club resort/marina, fwiw. http://www.greenturtleclub.com/ And I’m looking for anyone with any direct experience with the eastern Abaco islands, the Green Turtle Club, and more importantly, the fishing! Anyone out there ever been to this place? Anyone out there do any bonefishing in the Abacos Islands? Thanks for any feedback. I’ve done both, and am fairly familiar with out islands of the Bahamas. As to the Green Turtle Club itself, the food is good, the dockage reasonable, an we’ve had a good time when we’ve been.  I glanced at the site, and I’d say it’s pretty representative – in fact, I think I have some pictures taken in the dining room and patio area, and they look a lot like those on the site.   Really, it depends on what you want.  If you want moderate isolation, Green Turtle is fairly so, but not ridiculously so.  If you want a little more to do, and don’t want a boat, you could stay at Marsh Harbour and ferry to the Cays (Green Turtle has a ferry service from MH to GTC, and there are plenty of ferry services around the Abacos). Also, GTC has several other accommodation options, such as cottages and houses, that I see in a newspaper from earlier in the year. The outers are a little different from the "tourist" island areas like Freeport and Nassau, and, IMO, are like no other area in the world.  You have yachts (and I mean YACHTS) that cruise the area, but it is all pretty casual and laid-back.  If you want more info on the area, drop me an email.   IMO, the best deal going in places like the Abacos, USVI/BVI, etc. is to rent a boat (pref. sail, but a trawler if you must) and cruise the islands.  The general area is easy sailing (although you must pay attention to tide times) with lots of areas to visit, dive, fish, party, or whatever.  Room rates run 200.00-plus USD a day, plus taxes, additional charges, meal plans, etc., and for about the same money, you can get a boat – of course, YMMV.  If you are interested, Moorings has a location in MH, or check any of the boating/sailing mags like Motorboating & Sailing, Yachting, Sailing, etc. TC, R PS – FWIW, the members of certain yacht clubs get discounts at many of the clubs in the Bahamas, or at least reciprocation, and that may be worth looking into, if applicable for you. /daytripper (got dem bonefishin’ jones

"I wouldn’t join a yagt…yauht….BOAT club that would have me as a member!" <attributable_to_someone_noteworthy_I_am_soooo_sure Thanks for the start, Richard. My wife and I enjoyed the heck out of Anegada, population under 100 and which I’d call "severely isolated", compared to Green Turtle Cay – which looks to be fairly teeming with humanity and is a short boat ride to a whole lot of touristy stuff by comparison. But if the fishing is good enough I’ll put up with a lot We had considered the Tiamo resort on south Andros, but someone or something put the wife onto this place, hence the grape vine initiative… I’m not sure that the spousal unit is ready for a week and a half on a boat, though the idea has it’s intrigue. She’s done day sails on schooners and didn’t go green, so there’s a possibility she’ll surprise me. I shall bounce it off Herself and note her first reaction (the only one that counts I plan on at least renting a boat, hopefully a center console in the 20 foot range while we’re wherever we’re going to be. I’ve looked at the rates and they seem more than reasonable ("Wait’ll you see the boat, though!" We had also considered a different place closer to the Marls on the western side of Abaco, but my wife read that the guides that work out of the eastern cays can scoot over to the Marls quickly enough. The scale of these islands escapes me,  seems much smaller than I had imagined. Again, thanks for the feedback, if you have more on the GTC thing I’d appreciate it (as email if you prefer). /daytripper

Response:

Question:

I went fly fishing on Henery’s Fork in eastern Idaho.  And caught 14 blow flys, 6 bott flys and a mosquitoe.

Response:

I went fly fishing on Henery’s Fork in eastern Idaho.  And caught 14 blow flys, 6 bott flys and a mosquitoe.

 What were you useing ? HM

Response:

I went fly fishing on Henery’s Fork in eastern Idaho.  And caught 14 blow flys, 6 bott flys and a mosquitoe. What were you useing ? HM

Thes tim of yeer, u hafe to useing a fly pole, an fly lyne. Bhig Al

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     If a flyfisherman ( who is a good sportsman ) , and a spin fisherman ( who is a good sportsman ) both released a trout under the same conditions . Which trout would have a better chance of surviving ? I say it would be the one released by the spin fisherman , because the fly fisherman would probably be using lighter leader , and would have to fight the fish longer and harder . Al Strucke This is possible though there is evidence the reverse is true: mortality is higher if the fish are forced to struggle violently without respite. Consider an analogy; you ask two people to a mile. One is asked to do it in one run as fast as they can go – the other must also run fast but can slow their pace or rest for a short period every quarter of a mile. Which runner has the greater probability of dying from the run? A simlar siutation was found with chinook slamon where high mortality was found where the fish were caught on commercial trolling tackle (no pun intended) – the fish struggled violently for a brief period before being tagged and released. Mortality approached 50%. Fish caught using conventional sport tackle have proven to have much lower mortality. It was surmized that the cause was the intense exertion of the commercial caught fish caused high levels of lactic acid and higher mortality while the sport caught fish a lower level of lactic acid in the blood. I also wonder why it has to be assumed flyfishers will use lighter leaders etc. They shouldn’t. Ralph H

The issue about lactic acid is muddy.  I think it was a fellow named Black in 1955 who was among the first to report that increases in blood lactates were observed after playing fish to exhaustion.  Some other fish researchers (e.g., Wydoski in "Relation of Hooking Mortality and Subleathal hooking Stress to Quality Fishery Management" noted the same increases in blood lactates, but it is not clear that these contribute to increased mortality. It is clear that these lactates result in increased blood acidosis and this contributes to an imbalance of body fluids that under some conditions may contribute to mortality.  Wood, Turner, and Graham (1983) "Why do fish die after severe exercise" (in J. Fish Biology 22) conducted experiments with — I think it was cutthroat trout — and observed increased acidosis after severe exercise, but they concluded that  this was an "unlikely" cause of mortality.  They suggest that other metabolic processes may be the cause of death, but these remain to be discovered.  Conditions such as water temperature are also significant factors as are species differences.  The work done on trout does not necessarily apply to bass or vice versa since different species definitely show different vulnerabilities to mortality. Anyway, without getting lost in the details, it seems the important point is: why fish die is not as simple to explain as we would like it to be and we all have lots of myths and lore about it that may or may not be supported by fish science, which itself has lots of contradictory research about any one topic. JR

Response:

Greetings: I am one of a rare breed that avidly fishes flies and spinners. In my opinion, which, by the way, is generally wrong: More than anything, depends on how the fish was hooked, which depends on how the lure was fished. A spinning rig tends to keep the line tight, and the hooks, as a result, are in the outer mouth. Same with a fly rig, if it is being fished properly. However, I see a lot of fly fishermen using wet flies with no strike indicator. Hence, the fish will swallow the fly. I don’t know if it’s a penis thing, or what, that keeps seemingly reasonable people from using a strike indicator. I use a yarn indicator, and hook fish I could never detect by watching the line alone. Live bait fisherman who don’t plan on keeping their catch should be shot at sunrise. Same for those who do plan on keeping their catch, but for a different reason. No, wait, that would be 2 reasons. 1) Drowning innocent bait, 2) Not releasing their catch. Needless to say (which is why I’m saying it), if you want to eat fish, go to the local grocery and buy it, instead of eating a wild treasure. Unless you’re camping in the wild. Man, I am in way over my head, which is a really bad thing if you are wading. I’m stopping now. MDC "I plan to live forever… so far, so good."

    If a flyfisherman ( who is a good sportsman ) , and a spin fisherman ( who is a good sportsman ) both released a trout under the same conditions . Which trout would have a better chance of surviving ? I say it would be the one released by the spin fisherman , because the fly fisherman would probably be using lighter leader , and would have to fight the fish longer and harder . Al Strucke

Response:

More than anything, depends on how the fish was hooked,

The most important variable in the mortality rate of C&R fish is water temp. The warmer the water, the more likely the fish goes belly up after being caught and released. Of course, the original question said assume all variables the same except fly or lure. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

(snipped) <<Man, I am in way over my head, which is a really bad thing if you are wading. I’m stopping now. Oh, Lordy, Lordy, Lordy.  I am roasting my marshmallows from here, the flames are so big.  Stand by, MDC.  I’ll give you a hint ——- asbestos! Dave LaCourse

Response:

To original Poster If you spin fish and you really like fishing, you will LOVE fly fishing. You will catch more fish, make more money, be more attractive to women and your car will always start. Dave Snedeker

Dave, sound like  you’ve been playing country- western records backwards again. Big Al

Response:

If you want to pluck the low-lying fruit of flaming self-deprecating humor, be my guest. Yawn… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (snipped) <<Man, I am in way over my head, which is a really bad thing if you are wading. I’m stopping now. Oh, Lordy, Lordy, Lordy.  I am roasting my marshmallows from here, the flames are so big.  Stand by, MDC.  I’ll give you a hint ——- asbestos! Dave LaCourse

Response:

If you spin fish and you really like fishing, you will LOVE fly fishing. You will catch more fish, make more money, be more attractive to women and your car will always start. Dave Snedeker

It’s true, now that I fly fish, my car always starts. m&m – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

To original Poster A person could argue this forever. Best answer? Try both yourself. See what you learn. I spin fished in the ’50s. The trebles tear the shit out of trout, mostly kill them. People spin fish because its easy and mindless. When its bitter cold its hard to argue against it. But the fact is that if a monkey could be taught to cast the dam thing he’d catch about as much as a human spin fisher. No offence ment, but its a proven fact thats been surpressed by the government since 1949. Spinning is the more effective technique if you need to throw a baitfish imitation way the hell out in the surf. Thats about it. Spinning is inferior to the fly rod for delivering anything other than a baitfish initation or a gob or worms or a dead chunk of something, at long distances. Problem is that fish eat a lot more than baitfish. If you spin fish and you really like fishing, you will LOVE fly fishing. You will catch more fish, make more money, be more attractive to women and your car will always start. Dave Snedeker

Response:

    If a flyfisherman ( who is a good sportsman ) , and a spin fisherman ( who is a good sportsman ) both released a trout under the same conditions . Which trout would have a better chance of surviving ? I say it would be the one released by the spin fisherman , because the fly fisherman would probably be using lighter leader , and would have to fight the fish longer and harder . Al Strucke

Probably true if it weren’t that spin fishermen use treble hooks.                                                                John Popp

Response:

    If a flyfisherman ( who is a good sportsman ) , and a spin fisherman ( who is a good sportsman ) both released a trout under the same conditions . Which trout would have a better chance of surviving ? I say it would be the one released by the spin fisherman , because the fly fisherman would probably be using lighter leader , and would have to fight the fish longer and harder . Al Strucke

This is possible though there is evidence the reverse is true: mortality is higher if the fish are forced to struggle violently without respite. Consider an analogy; you ask two people to a mile. One is asked to do it in one run as fast as they can go – the other must also run fast but can slow their pace or rest for a short period every quarter of a mile. Which runner has the greater probability of dying from the run? A simlar siutation was found with chinook slamon where high mortality was found where the fish were caught on commercial trolling tackle (no pun intended) – the fish struggled violently for a brief period before being tagged and released. Mortality approached 50%. Fish caught using conventional sport tackle have proven to have much lower mortality. It was surmized that the cause was the intense exertion of the commercial caught fish caused high levels of lactic acid and higher mortality while the sport caught fish a lower level of lactic acid in the blood. I also wonder why it has to be assumed flyfishers will use lighter leaders etc. They shouldn’t. Ralph H

Response:

<< If a flyfisherman ( who is a good sportsman ) , and a spin fisherman ( who is a good sportsman ) both released a trout under the same conditions . Which trout would have a better chance of surviving ? I say it would be the one released by the spin fisherman , because the fly fisherman would probably be using lighter leader , and would have to fight the fish longer and harder . Al Strucke Is this a troll?  Maybe not.  Lee Wulff says a minute/pound.  There is no reason the fly fisherman should take *that* much longer than the spin fisherman.  You neglect to say what kind of "lure" the spin guy is using.  If it’s bait of any kind, it could be a deep-down-the-gullet hook-up, in which case the fish probably won’t live.  If it is a treble hook  and more than one of the hooks sets up, there could be more damage (prepare for incoming flames!).  I’ll go with the fly rod and a fly doing the less damage. Dave LaCourse

Response:

Maybe you can clarify a couple of points before an informed answer can be given.  Hook size (the larger the hook the greater the potential problems for the fish).  Hook type (treble hooks under some conditions seem to cause more problems than non-treble hooks, although some studies show this is not always the case), barbed or barbless (again, some studies show barbed hooks have no more mortality than barbless, but other studies show the reverse), and place of hooking (deeper hooks cause more problems of after-release mortality).  Also, although there is some data to indicate that playing fish longer contributes to increased mortality, there is other work that does not support the assumption that fighting fish longer causes more mortality. There are data to show that keeping fish out of the water longer than 30 seconds adds to the stress of fighting and does contribute to increased mortality.  I don’t think it is as simple as gear type.

    If a flyfisherman ( who is a good sportsman ) , and a spin fisherman ( who is a good sportsman ) both released a trout under the same conditions . Which trout would have a better chance of surviving ? I say it would be the one released by the spin fisherman , because the fly fisherman would probably be using lighter leader , and would have to fight the fish longer and harder . Al Strucke

Response:

ff tend to use small barbless hooks, size 14, 16, 18, 22, 24, most fish are hooked in the jaw. Deep hooking with large hooks (often treble hoods) can damage internal organs as can rough handling. A large trout yanked out of the water can suffer damage due to lack of support from the water. Using proper catch and release methods a tired fish can be revived. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     If a flyfisherman ( who is a good sportsman ) , and a spin fisherman ( who is a good sportsman ) both released a trout under the same conditions . Which trout would have a better chance of surviving ? I say it would be the one released by the spin fisherman , because the fly fisherman would probably be using lighter leader , and would have to fight the fish longer and harder . Al Strucke

Response:

    If a flyfisherman ( who is a good sportsman ) , and a spin fisherman ( who is a good sportsman ) both released a trout under the same conditions . Which trout would have a better chance of surviving ? I say it would be the one released by the spin fisherman , because the fly fisherman would probably be using lighter leader , and would have to fight the fish longer and harder . Al Strucke

Response:

Question:

    I have an old bamboo pole that was given to me.  It is about 9 to 10′ two piece pole with a single eyelet on the end.  It doesn’t have a handle on it or any mounts for a reel.     I’m curioius of what kind of pole it is and If it is worth anything.

Response:

   I have an old bamboo pole that was given to me.  It is about 9 to 10′ two piece pole with a single eyelet on the end.  It doesn’t have a handle on it or any mounts for a reel.    I’m curioius of what kind of pole it is and If it is worth anything.

Hi Andrew, That pole is for ‘tule dippen’. You put about 8 to 10′ of heavy line on the eyelet with a bobber and hook. Install some protein (i.e.worm) and swing it out on to the water. When the bobber goes under, light up the barbecue. I think it is a big part of our fishing heritage. In many third world countries they fish with a can and line. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

   I have an old bamboo pole that was given to me.  It is about 9 to 10′ two piece pole with a single eyelet on the end.  It doesn’t have a handle on it or any mounts for a reel.    I’m curioius of what kind of pole it is and If it is worth anything.

AKA a ‘whacko’ pole ,,used here (AUS) for the taking of Barra and Jack around snags. Method is to secure some 80+ mono to the tip with a 3.0 longshank hook with the barb filed off. Attach one live prawn (at least #8) and lower gingerly  into the snag. The name I am not sure where it originates. Tis one of these: A. the sound created when the frustrated fisho hits the water with the pole repeatedly. B. the imagined feeling when a BarraTuesday hits. C. the clip over the ear you get when doin’ this out of season. D. all of the above Gilly No SEA too rough No Muff too tough Be UP and alive

Response:

Question:

: Over fishing (in the ocean),  infestations of parasites exacerbated : by sea-farming in the estuaries, global warming  and siltation from : sheep overgrazing and peat cutting all were mentioned as possible : culprits. The peat  cutting, which causes terrible erosion, looked like : the main culprit to me.   I don’t know the answer, but I believe we can rule out global warming. Might be a problem in the future, say 20 years or more, but not now.  At least I don’t see how the problem as it is today is ruining the population.   Are you sure the fish aren’t just staying out at sea becasue they are afraid of bombs?  It is time for Ireland to solve their problems.  Let it go. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

I just got back from two weeks in Northwest Ireland. Salmon and Sea Trout are in trouble there, as they are in most places.  Everybody was up in arms about it, and everybody had a different idea. The peat  cutting, which causes terrible erosion, looked like the main culprit to me.  

Doubt if you’ll find too many people agreeing with you. (‘cept for the netters and fish-farmers of course)  :-)) Sea-trout and salmon stocks were fine in the past when peat cutting was just as extensive. It makes the water look bad, but the fish don’t seem to mind too much. Most interesting thing is to see how well stocks recover in any particular river system as soon as estuary or sea-loch salmon farming is stopped for a while. Its almost instantaneous. Too much netting at sea, and overfishing for the Krill/shrimps/sand-eels the fish live on is the popular choice for the overall drop in numbers. If you you want to fish Eire/UK for salmon or sea-trout, come soon  - and don’t be too hopeful. You still seem to have some fine fishing in USA. I know you’ve had your problems, but I wish we’d looked after ours half as well. Seems to me the pressures seem to be increasing all over tho’. Sometimes the only way to take my mind off it is to go fishing. Tight lines Ian D

Response:

It is time for Ireland to solve their problems.  Let it go.

Unfortunately, the Irish are not just damaging their own fisheries – they are also netting huge numbers of salmon passing the west coast of Ireland on their way back from the North Atlantic to Wales, Southern England, France, Spain.  They take far more Welsh fish, for example, than are caught in Wales by both rods and nets..  Political pressure has so far achieved little.  And it is said that this netting, much of which is illegal, is a big source of funds for the IRA..  :-( — Phil Jones South Wales

Response:

Salmon and Sea Trout are in trouble there, as they are in most places.  Everybody was up in arms about it, and everybody had a different idea.  Signs along many streams pleaded "Save our Sea Trout."

That’s the name of a very worthwhile organisation which has been campaigning for several years against the inshore salmon farming which has wrecked the sea trout runs.  The damage is done by massive infestations of sea lice.  The evidence is overwhelming. Send SOS a contribution and ask for some of their newsletters.  SOS, PO Box 69, Galway, EIRE. Over fishing (in the ocean),  infestations of parasites exacerbated by sea-farming in the estuaries, global warming  and siltation from sheep overgrazing and peat cutting all were mentioned as possible culprits. The peat  cutting, which causes terrible erosion, looked like the main culprit to me.  There is a lot of water in Ireland, and a lot of bedrock too. Good spawning gravel is hard to find, and what little there is looked brown, silted and peaty to me….at least where I fished, in the Connemarra district.

You forgot agricultural pollution of the spawning streams and lakes, commercial gravel extraction from river beds, over-fishing (in the rivers and lakes), etc.. — Phil Jones

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I just got back from two weeks in Northwest Ireland. Salmon and Sea Trout are in trouble there, as they are in most places.  Everybody was up in arms about it, and everybody had a different idea.  Signs along many streams pleaded "Save our Sea Trout." Over fishing (in the ocean),  infestations of parasites exacerbated by sea-farming in the estuaries, global warming  and siltation from sheep overgrazing and peat cutting all were mentioned as possible culprits. The peat  cutting, which causes terrible erosion, looked like the main culprit to me.  There is a lot of water in Ireland, and a lot of bedrock too. Good spawning gravel is hard to find, and what little there is looked brown, silted and peaty to me….at least where I fished, in the Connemarra district. Still, there are a few fish left, and it (all of Ireland) is a very beautiful place.   The Irish people–in particular–were the highlight of the trip. DIBBLING:      I learned a new fishing technique on one of the big Loughs: dibbling.  Local fly fishermen apparently dibble in rivers too, for both salmon and sea trout.   I’m looking forward to trying it back here, in Montana.  What is it? Put a relatively heavy wet fly on the end of the leader.  Then, maybe two feet back up the leader, put a bushy dry fly on a 6" dropper.  Cast across stream and pick up the rod tip until the dry fly is out of the water. Then bob the rod tip to make the dryfly look like a dancing caddis fly. On Lough Corrib, brown trout to 10 lbs smack’em like candy. Anybody ever try dibbliing over hear? Last note:       They have beautiful jungle cock necks for less than $75.00 in Dublin. I almost bought one.  But I managed to resist. Too bad nobody raises jungle cock.  I’d buy it for sure, if they weren’t dissapearing……like the sea trout? — /* Sandy Pittendrigh                  –oO0  * http://www.nervana.montana.edu/~sandy  * http://www.avicom.net/sandy                   */

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Question:

Anyone know of a good trout stream where the fish are wild and reasonably large (14-19")?  The thing is, it needs to be public water that I can drive to.  Also, I was hoping someone could suggest one where there will be no other anglers, and where the fish take small dry flies.  They don’t have to be really easy to catch, but I’m hoping they won’t be too leader shy either.  Another thing – I’d like it to be clean, and there should be rough campsites there, clean ones. You know, a fire ring, but without burnt cans and plastic cups and plates in it. No toilet paper in the bushes either.  Any suggestions? JE

JE,  If it’s brooktrout (native)..from Boston you’ve got to motor up 6-7hrs into northern Maine.  This is for *consistent* 14-19" takes. Get out the gas card;-) tight_lines, steve d.

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Your talking about the Steeprock River in Manitoba but it may be a way to drive ….. and try 22". You might see another human footprint if you fish it for a month. — — Bob Sheedy Angling Adventures North Lake Fly Fishing On-Line Magazine Home of MASTER ANGLER Fishing Software http://www.articfire.com/arcfire/fishing.htm

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Anyone know of a good trout stream where the fish are wild and reasonably large (14-19")?  The thing is, it needs to be public water that I can drive to.  Also, I was hoping someone could suggest one where there will be no other anglers, and where the fish take small dry flies.  They don’t have to be really easy to catch, but I’m hoping they won’t be too leader shy either.  Another thing – I’d like it to be clean, and there should be rough campsites there, clean ones. You know, a fire ring, but without burnt cans and plastic cups and plates in it. No toilet paper in the bushes either.  Any suggestions? JE

Boy you don’t ask for much, do you <g? Any requests for the weather? Peter G. Aitken         Give me half of the above and I’ll take any and all weather!!! JE

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you want ancovies with that?

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Anyone know of a good trout stream where the fish are wild and reasonably large (14-19")?  The thing is, it needs to be public water that I can drive to.  Also, I was hoping someone could suggest one where there will be no other anglers, and where the fish take small dry flies.  They don’t have to be really easy to catch, but I’m hoping they won’t be too leader shy either.  Another thing – I’d like it to be clean, and there should be rough campsites there, clean ones. You know, a fire ring, but without burnt cans and plastic cups and plates in it. No toilet paper in the bushes either.  Any suggestions? JE

John Plenty of such places in the mountain country of mainland SE Australia and in the high country of Tasmania. But don’t tell anyone else. Cheers Peter

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Anyone know of a good trout stream where the fish are wild and reasonably large (14-19")?  The thing is, it needs to be public water that I can drive to.  Also, I was hoping someone could suggest one where there will be no other anglers, and where the fish take small dry flies.  They don’t have to be really easy to catch, but I’m hoping they won’t be too leader shy either.  Another thing – I’d like it to be clean, and there should be rough campsites there, clean ones. You know, a fire ring, but without burnt cans and plastic cups and plates in it. No toilet paper in the bushes either.  Any suggestions? JE

Go to the Cariboo, near Quesnel, BC.  Drive 3 hours beyond Quesnel, and look for any patch of water. Apply flies.  Catch fish.  Only catch is, Quesnel is a little ways (15hrs) from Seattle, which is a little ways from everywhere else.  The Stellako, west of Prince George, BC, is real good too.  It’s north and west of Quesnel about 4 hours. There will be few anglers.  The no anglers thing, would you mind passin’ what yer smokin’?  Any piece of water that can be driven to that has fish will have other people.  The question is how many.  The places I know that don’t have people, continue to not have people cuz I don’t post their names on the ‘Net.  Sorry, but that’s the way it is.   Hell I just spent a week on a river in Alaska that I had to fly an hour in a bush plane to get to, then float 70 miles down to get to the fish, and was surrounded by people (and bears) the whole time.  Caught some big ass rainbows, however.  On mice, too. — Andrew Brunette Remove "_nospam" in return address to respond

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Anyone know of a good trout stream where the fish are wild and reasonably large (14-19")?  The thing is, it needs to be public water that I can drive to.  Also, I was hoping someone could suggest one where there will be no other anglers, and where the fish take small dry flies.  They don’t have to be really easy to catch, but I’m hoping they won’t be too leader shy either.  Another thing – I’d like it to be clean, and there should be rough campsites there, clean ones. You know, a fire ring, but without burnt cans and plastic cups and plates in it. No toilet paper in the bushes either.  Any suggestions? JE

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Anyone know of a good trout stream where the fish are wild and reasonably large (14-19")?  The thing is, it needs to be public water that I can drive to.  Also, I was hoping someone could suggest one where there will be no other anglers, and where the fish take small dry flies.  They don’t have to be really easy to catch, but I’m hoping they won’t be too leader shy either.  Another thing – I’d like it to be clean, and there should be rough campsites there, clean ones. You know, a fire ring, but without burnt cans and plastic cups and plates in it. No toilet paper in the bushes either.  Any suggestions? JE

Boy you don’t ask for much, do you <g? Any requests for the weather? Peter G. Aitken

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Jon, Live a good life and if you are lucky, in the next life, you might just stumble across such a place.  However, with my luck, half this newsgroup will have proceeded you and the place will have been trashed!  :^) Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone know of a good trout stream where the fish are wild and reasonably large (14-19")?  The thing is, it needs to be public water that I can drive to.  Also, I was hoping someone could suggest one where there will be no other anglers, and where the fish take small dry flies.  They don’t have to be really easy to catch, but I’m hoping they won’t be too leader shy either.  Another thing – I’d like it to be clean, and there should be rough campsites there, clean ones. You know, a fire ring, but without burnt cans and plastic cups and plates in it. No toilet paper in the bushes either.  Any suggestions? JE

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone know of a good trout stream where the fish are wild and reasonably large (14-19")?  The thing is, it needs to be public water that I can drive to.  Also, I was hoping someone could suggest one where there will be no other anglers, and where the fish take small dry flies.  They don’t have to be really easy to catch, but I’m hoping they won’t be too leader shy either.  Another thing – I’d like it to be clean, and there should be rough campsites there, clean ones. You know, a fire ring, but without burnt cans and plastic cups and plates in it. No toilet paper in the bushes either.  Any suggestions? JE

       ahhh sounds like your looking to fish out of your bathtub again, but then the fish are probally bigger in there than the ones you usually catch!;p CG

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Anyone know of a good trout stream where the fish are wild and reasonably large (14-19")?  The thing is, it needs to be public water that I can drive to.  Also, I was hoping someone could suggest one where there will be no other anglers, and where the fish take small dry flies.  They don’t have to be really easy to catch, but I’m hoping they won’t be too leader shy either.  Another thing – I’d like it to be clean, and there should be rough campsites there, clean ones. You know, a fire ring, but without burnt cans and plastic cups and plates in it. No toilet paper in the bushes either.  Any suggestions? JE

This sounds a bit too much like heaven to be comfortable… let me know if you find it -paul

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Question:

Has any body been to Casa Blanca fishing lodge in the Yucatan. Any Info would be greatly appeciated. Thanks  :-)

I was there in the fall of ‘95 and found it to be one of the nicer flats lodges that I have visited. Ascension Bay is a great fisheries with great wadable flats for bones. It is famous for permit and has some tarpon. They have good guides and new Dolphin skiffs with poling platforms. Our guide said that March/April was the best time for permit. April/May/June is prime time for all species. November is another time for bones and permit. We can help you make a reservation there or any other flats location you are interested in. If you have more questions you can call me at my toll free 800#. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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Has any body been to Casa Blanca fishing lodge in the Yucatan. Any Info would be greatly appeciated. Thanks  :-)

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I was there last March and am returning this year in April. I would suggest you call Frontiers at 1-800-245-1950 and ask for information. Will be glad to give u any help I can. I have no connection financially with Frontiers. I think you can also book thru Cutters, or Kaufmans on the West Coast. Their brochures are good and offer loads of info. Email me if you wish and we can set up a phone contact if you wish. Good luck. Jack

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Question:

Question # 2 – What is a

Question:

Would any one know where I could get info on fly hatches in Northern Ontario? Jason

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I don’t although I’ve tried to some degree. It seems not many of the locals (most of which are natives depending on how far north you are talking about) are avid fly-fishing types. I’m going to do some wild brookie fishing in N. Ontario in June, so if you find any specifics please pass it on and I’ll do the same. Thanks…….

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Would any one know where I could get info on fly hatches in Northern Ontario?

There’s nothing in print:  but lots of people would say you don’t need to match the hatch or carry more than: –muddlers, all sizes –big visible dry for broken water –big white moth alias spinner –small upwing dun –small caddis —  |          Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Rd., Carlsbad         |  |        Springs, Ont., Canada K0A 1K0; tel: (613) 822-0734       |  |  "What I’ve always liked about science is its independence from |  |  authority"–Ontario Science Centre (name on file) 10 July 1981 |

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