Question:

NRA FILES CIVIL RIGHTS SUIT On Tuesday, the National Rifle Association filed a civil rights lawsuit on behalf of 12-year-old Virginia NRA member Alan Newsom. The lawsuit charges the principal and vice-principal of the Jack Jouett Middle School and the Albemarle County (Va.) School Board Superintendent and Board members with violating Newsom’s First Amendment rights when they banned him from wearing an NRA Youth Sports Shooting Camp shirt, bearing NRA’s logo, to school last year. Newsom was forced to remove his T-shirt by the vice-principal and told to turn it inside out. She considered the shirt’s illustrations of individuals involved in shooting sports to violate school policy, even though at the time there was no rule that prohibited such clothing. When NRA notified school authorities that their action violated the student’ s civil rights, the school subsequently added a provision for the 2002-2003 school year barring any clothing associated with "weapons" and "violence." "The facts are clear. Alan Newsom was singled-out by the vice-principal because he was wearing an NRA T-shirt," said NRA’s Executive Vice-President Wayne LaPierre. "The T-shirt clearly depicts individuals involved in shooting sports. The images are in no way inappropriate or violent. This is a blatant infringement of young Alan’s constitutional rights. I was dumbfounded when I learned of the facts of this case after Alan’s parents contacted us, and didn’t hesitate to take up this challenge. I am proud to say that NRA stands proudly with this brave young man," LaPierre said. The lawsuit, which seeks $100,000 in damages and $50,000 in punitive damages plus legal costs, was filed in the U.S. Federal District Court for Western District of Virginia, Charlottesville Division. Among the 12 counts included in the federal suit are free speech and due process violations under federal and state constitutions. "NRA wholeheartedly supports the reasonable prohibition of images on clothing depicting violence in a school setting. However, to preclude a student from wearing an article of clothing because it may run counter to the viewpoints or political beliefs of some school officials is deplorable," LaPierre added. In Tinker v. Des Moines School District, the U.S. Supreme Court held "[i]n order for the State in the person of the school officials to justify prohibition of a particular expressed opinion, it must be able to show that its actions were caused by something more than a mere desire to avoid the discomfort and unpleasantness that always accompany an unpopular viewpoint." NRA’s lawsuit also challenges the ambiguity of the new school rule which will not only affect all NRA logos, but also the Great Seal of the United States, the United States Army logo, and the seal of the Commonwealth of Virginia-all with images of "weapons" that would fall within the prohibitions of the school’s new policy. "This is clearly a case of political-correctness running unchecked," LaPierre added. "Alan is a good student who has no disciplinary problems in school. He developed an affinity for shooting sports and his father enrolled him in a NRA Youth Safety Camp to learn basic firearm safety. Alan aspires to represent his country in the Olympics someday. The school authorities harassed and breached Alan’s First Amendment rights merely for his interest in the NRA and shooting sports." The lawsuit noted that, ironically, Jack Jouett Middle School is named for an American Revolutionary War hero who is known for his famous ride on June 3, 1781, in which despite the potential for personal peril, he rode through the night to warn Thomas Jefferson, Patrick Henry, and others that British troops were on their way to arrest patriots for signing the Declaration of Independence. In appreciation for this act of bravery, the Virginia Legislature awarded Captain Jack Jouett a sword and a pair of pistols. For more information on this case, and other cases that NRA-ILA is pursuing, please call (800) 392-8683.

Response:

where’s the fly fishing in this story? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – NRA FILES CIVIL RIGHTS SUIT On Tuesday, the National Rifle Association filed a civil rights lawsuit on behalf of 12-year-old Virginia NRA member Alan Newsom. The lawsuit charges the principal and vice-principal of the Jack Jouett Middle School and the Albemarle County (Va.) School Board Superintendent and Board members with violating Newsom’s First Amendment rights when they banned him from wearing an NRA Youth Sports Shooting Camp shirt, bearing NRA’s logo, to school last year. Newsom was forced to remove his T-shirt by the vice-principal and told to turn it inside out. She considered the shirt’s illustrations of individuals involved in shooting sports to violate school policy, even though at the time there was no rule that prohibited such clothing. When NRA notified school authorities that their action violated the student’ s civil rights, the school subsequently added a provision for the 2002-2003 school year barring any clothing associated with "weapons" and "violence." "The facts are clear. Alan Newsom was singled-out by the vice-principal because he was wearing an NRA T-shirt," said NRA’s Executive Vice-President Wayne LaPierre. "The T-shirt clearly depicts individuals involved in shooting sports. The images are in no way inappropriate or violent. This is a blatant infringement of young Alan’s constitutional rights. I was dumbfounded when I learned of the facts of this case after Alan’s parents contacted us, and didn’t hesitate to take up this challenge. I am proud to say that NRA stands proudly with this brave young man," LaPierre said. The lawsuit, which seeks $100,000 in damages and $50,000 in punitive damages plus legal costs, was filed in the U.S. Federal District Court for Western District of Virginia, Charlottesville Division. Among the 12 counts included in the federal suit are free speech and due process violations under federal and state constitutions. "NRA wholeheartedly supports the reasonable prohibition of images on clothing depicting violence in a school setting. However, to preclude a student from wearing an article of clothing because it may run counter to the viewpoints or political beliefs of some school officials is deplorable," LaPierre added. In Tinker v. Des Moines School District, the U.S. Supreme Court held "[i]n order for the State in the person of the school officials to justify prohibition of a particular expressed opinion, it must be able to show that its actions were caused by something more than a mere desire to avoid the discomfort and unpleasantness that always accompany an unpopular viewpoint." NRA’s lawsuit also challenges the ambiguity of the new school rule which will not only affect all NRA logos, but also the Great Seal of the United States, the United States Army logo, and the seal of the Commonwealth of Virginia-all with images of "weapons" that would fall within the prohibitions of the school’s new policy. "This is clearly a case of political-correctness running unchecked," LaPierre added. "Alan is a good student who has no disciplinary problems in school. He developed an affinity for shooting sports and his father enrolled him in a NRA Youth Safety Camp to learn basic firearm safety. Alan aspires to represent his country in the Olympics someday. The school authorities harassed and breached Alan’s First Amendment rights merely for his interest in the NRA and shooting sports." The lawsuit noted that, ironically, Jack Jouett Middle School is named for an American Revolutionary War hero who is known for his famous ride on June 3, 1781, in which despite the potential for personal peril, he rode through the night to warn Thomas Jefferson, Patrick Henry, and others that British troops were on their way to arrest patriots for signing the Declaration of Independence. In appreciation for this act of bravery, the Virginia Legislature awarded Captain Jack Jouett a sword and a pair of pistols. For more information on this case, and other cases that NRA-ILA is pursuing, please call (800) 392-8683.

Response:

Question:

<Wonderful story snipped Russell Still euphoric, heck maybe giddy!

Welcome back. We missed you.    Signed     Fish

Response:

*thick skin* to venture here(though why that is necessary to discuss something and tranquil and relaxing as fly fishing is beyond me)

So one would think… I was born and raised near Driggs, Idaho. Driggs is located in the middle of Teton Valley in southeastern Idaho. Running right down the middle of the valley is the Teton River.

That must’ve been beautiful. Growing up I was quite oblivious of the existence of the river

Youth is wasted on the young, as a wise and no doubt old man said. I set the hook and landed the most beautiful seven-inch brown trout I had ever seen, well at least in the last ten years.

I think returning makes it all the sweeter. Still euphoric, heck maybe giddy!

Happens to me all the time. Very nice read, Russell. Thanks for sharing. Steve

Response:

<snip I was euphoric. I thanked the fish, thanked my doctor and thanked God. (There have been many other and probably more important benefits that have come from getting my eyes fixed but none have made me happier.)

Your post reminded me that I sometimes take all this good stuff for granted. I just opened the shades in my office and spent a few minutes reveling in the joy of sight. If you’ve been lurking as you say, you’ve noticed some pretty heated discussions on photography. Interesting that we could all get so wrapped up in the topic of which is better and why, while others are just glad to see *any* image. My wife bought me a fishing licence for Father’s Day.

You’ve got a keeper there! She obviously saw the joy your new-found sight brought. Congrats. I bought me some new hip waders and patched my chest waders. I have made it out a few times since with great success. Thursday evening I am headed to Idaho to take care of some family business. I will be taking my rod, vest, waders and float tube and plan on being on the Teton River very early Friday morning. That is where it all started. I can’t wait.

I await your TR. Good luck catching fish, but *that* isn’t the most important part, now is it?  :) Still euphoric, heck maybe giddy!

Keep spreading it around, my friend. You do it well. — TL, Tim

Response:

  (This is a repost of a message I sent on July 7. The original somehow   never made it out of my ISP’s server so I’m reposting with Google. A   TR will follow later.)     Because of a renewed (I’ll explain why renewed in a bit) interest in   fly-fishing, I started lurking in ROFF about a month and a half ago.   The more I observed from the banks, the more I began to wonder if I   dare wade in lest I get my head bit off. you stupid son of a bitch – just a little something to make you feel like part of the group! Welcome to ROFF! There’s a Clave this Fall at Henry’s Fork. Willi

Response:

Russell Great story. Years ago fishing Spanish Fork and hunting mulies in the oak brush foothills with an old Enfield above the powder house helped keep me a reasonably sane undergrad. When things got too weird we’d head for the railroad cafe at the Thistle junction for some pie and coffee.

The town of Thistle no longer exists. In 1983 it was wiped out by a landslide that so blocked the Spanish Fork River that it created a big lake over the town. Here’s a picture of the dam and lake. Thistle is under the water on the left/middle part of the picture. http://landslides.usgs.gov/html_files/landslides/slides/slide3.htm Here is a pretty concise description of what happened: http://www.trainweb.org/utahrails/locales/thistle.html to see the stainless steel cars of the California Zephyr coming out of the Canyon up from Denver in the snow, 100% USA built, on past thousands of sheep on the flat in Winter enclosures, and headed for Salt Lake. I just got to get back to that country someday, visit the Art Museum in Springville

A true treasure of this state. and maybe head on down to Helper in the Utah coal country.

Ah, Helper! I lived in Price from 1977 to 1979 and worked in a coal mine just north of Helper. What great country that is. Price is one of the best places that I’ve ever lived. Great people down there. Russell

Response:

Great story Russell, my best wishes for you. Do yourself a favour wear polarised glasses. That improves your sight in/on the water, but the best point is it protects your eyes. I tell you this, because I  hooked my cheek  directly under my left eye last time I was fishing. That was painful enough, can

Question:

My provider has warned me that my account will be suspended, due to my sending off-topic posts, and insults. This is a direct result of Gehrkes lies. A copy of the first post is appended. I can not afford to lose my Usenet access at this time, I need it for my work.  As a consequence, I have no choice but to unsubscribe from ROFF. If you wish to contact me,.please use e-mail. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —— Original Message —– Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 10:53 AM Hallo Herr Connor, bitte den "Privatkrieg" beenden, hier kommen Beschwerden

Question:

I am in the process of trying to learn how to fly fish.  I live in Utah, and my office is at the mouth of Provo canyon, and only 4 1/2 minutes away from some really good lunch time fishing spots, on the Provo river.  Last summer I bought a rod and real, and a coworker of mine taught me to roll cast, and explained to me the concept of fishing with dry fly’s.  this winter I read "Fly fishing for the complete idiot: a no-nonsense guide to fly casting" by Michael Rutter, and have been practicing casting on my lawn.  I am ok with casting now (or will be with more practice), and I understand what to do with dry fly’s, but I am clue less on how to setup and present a wet fly.  I am looking for a recommendation on a book that will go into more detail on setting my line up for a wet fly,and presentation of both wet and dry flys. Jim Ferry Orem, Utah

Response:

I am in the process of trying to learn how to fly fish.  I live in Utah, and my office is at the mouth of Provo canyon, and only 4 1/2 minutes away from some really good lunch time fishing spots, on the Provo river.

Your "office" is really that gas station across from the old power plant, right? –Steve

Response:

The big ugly pink building building 3/4 mile down university ave.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am in the process of trying to learn how to fly fish.  I live in Utah, and my office is at the mouth of Provo canyon, and only 4 1/2 minutes away from some really good lunch time fishing spots, on the Provo river. Your "office" is really that gas station across from the old power plant, right? –Steve

Response:

Prospecting For Trout (Rosenbauer) for overall strategy.  Nymph Fishing (Hughes) good starter book for nymph fishing (is that what you mean by wet?)

Response:

    My favorite "how to" book is Borger’s Presentation. I loaned mine to Bob Skinner last year, so it’s probably for sale in some Buffalo WY used book store by now. Hint: if Buffalo has more than one used book store, check the ones closest to the liquor stores. And thats only assuming Buffalo doesn’t have any brothels that take used books in trade.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am in the process of trying to learn how to fly fish.  I live in Utah, and my office is at the mouth of Provo canyon, and only 4 1/2 minutes away from some really good lunch time fishing spots, on the Provo river.  Last summer I bought a rod and real, and a coworker of mine taught me to roll cast, and explained to me the concept of fishing with dry fly’s.  this winter I read "Fly fishing for the complete idiot: a no-nonsense guide to fly casting" by Michael Rutter, and have been practicing casting on my lawn.  I am ok with casting now (or will be with more practice), and I understand what to do with dry fly’s, but I am clue less on how to setup and present a wet fly. I am looking for a recommendation on a book that will go into more detail on setting my line up for a wet fly,and presentation of both wet and dry

flys.

Response:

    My favorite "how to" book is Borger’s Presentation. I loaned mine to Bob Skinner last year, so it’s probably for sale in some Buffalo WY used book store by now. Hint: if Buffalo has more than one used book store, check the ones closest to the liquor stores. And thats only assuming Buffalo doesn’t have any brothels that take used books in trade.

  Yeah, that’s a pretty good book.  But, I still have it.  No book stores or brothels in Buffalo and I buy my beer out of state ($7.00/case last time I went back to Lexington, NE.  I bought 5 cases)   Peggy says we need to get your books and rod back to you.  I think she really means she wants to go to Denver to see our daughter and Peggy’s sister and do some shopping.  I will bring fine cigars for rent on the books. Snoop —

Response:

    My favorite "how to" book is Borger’s Presentation. I loaned mine to Bob Skinner last year, so it’s probably for sale in some Buffalo WY used book store by now.

Yes, good one  I think it’s a good book too.  Also, one that can be left on the coffee table without your SO griping about it.

Response:

I just returned "Presenting  the Fly" by Lefty Kreh to the library.  Very good book, published in 1999.  He covers more that trout in it and it has some good tips on gear.  It’s around $40 so when I need it again it’s back to the library for me or just read it at B&N.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -am looking for a recommendation on a book that will go into more detail on setting my line up for a wet fly,and presentation of both wet and dry flys. Jim Ferry Orem, Utah

Response:

Question:

______  RW?  I want to talk to you at: — http://www.gink.com/chat If you are up.  I’m going there now. George

Response:

Ernie, I’ve seen these but have never had the guts to use them.  Do they stay in the flyline when you hook a big fish?  They look like they would slip out.

Vern; This topic comes up every few weeks here.  If you do a Deja News search you can find quite a bit of discussion of it over the past year or so.  It seems that Ernie and I are the biggest fans of leader links.  I’ve used them for over fifteen years, as have a number of my friends.  I know of no case in which they have failed, except when they are so old that repeated dragging over rocks etc., has abraded them badly.  Of course, any knot used to attach a leader to the fly line would have fared just as badly. Like anything else, a leader link has a finite useable life.  But bearing that in mind they are very reliable, cheap, and easy to use, and should be more than adequate for anything less demanding than large salt water species.  I’ve personally caught quite a few steelhead and salmon while rigged with leader links and never had a problem. Someone else recently suggested knotting the ends of the leader and line together before reinserting them into the leader link.  This is unnecessary for most applications but can’t hurt if you can actually tie a knot small enough.

Response:

Vern,    They are surprisingly strong.  The only thing to watch out for is to tie a figure 8 knot or double overhand when attaching leader butt’s with diameters of .017 or less to make a larger knot.  You should check the line where it enters the Leader Link vocationally to see that it hasn’t cracked. They seem to last forever, I have worn out lines and moved the Leader Link to a new line.  Changing leaders is so easy that I replace the whole leader rather than tie on a new tippet while I am fishing.  I save the leaders and rebuild them when I am not fishing. Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ernie, I’ve seen these but have never had the guts to use them. Do they stay in the flyline when you hook a big fish? They look like they would slip out. Vern Don,    Try using the Leader Link from Eagle Claw. Eagle Claw Country Store Phone 1-800-628-0108 4245 East 46th Avenue Denver Colorado 80216 Leader Link For tapered lines (LL1) For level lines     (LL2) There are 3 links per package and cost $2.83 per pack.

Response:

Are you guys differentiating between the kind that slip over and the kind that poke through (with barbs) the end of your flyline?……john – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Vern,   They are surprisingly strong.  The only thing to watch out for is to tie a figure 8 knot or double overhand when attaching leader butt’s with diameters of .017 or less to make a larger knot.  You should check the line where it enters the Leader Link vocationally to see that it hasn’t cracked. They seem to last forever, I have worn out lines and moved the Leader Link to a new line.  Changing leaders is so easy that I replace the whole leader rather than tie on a new tippet while I am fishing.  I save the leaders and rebuild them when I am not fishing. Ernie Harrison Ernie, I’ve seen these but have never had the guts to use them. Do they stay in the flyline when you hook a big fish? They look like they would slip out. Vern Don,    Try using the Leader Link from Eagle Claw. Eagle Claw Country Store Phone 1-800-628-0108 4245 East 46th Avenue Denver Colorado 80216 Leader Link For tapered lines (LL1) For level lines     (LL2) There are 3 links per package and cost $2.83 per pack.

Response:

John,    A Leader Link looks like a large grain of rice with a hole drilled through the center lengthwise and with the sides cut out in the middle. Your line slides into the hole in one end and out the hole in the side,  You tie an overhand knot in it, trim off the excess and pull it back through the hole in the side.  Then you do the same with your leader in the hole in the other end. Ernie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are you guys differentiating between the kind that slip over and the kind that poke through (with barbs) the end of your flyline?……john

Response:

ahhhh….those rascals……thanks….john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -John,   A Leader Link looks like a large grain of rice with a hole drilled through the center lengthwise and with the sides cut out in the middle. Your line slides into the hole in one end and out the hole in the side, You tie an overhand knot in it, trim off the excess and pull it back through the hole in the side.  Then you do the same with your leader in the hole in the other end. Ernie Are you guys differentiating between the kind that slip over and the kind that poke through (with barbs) the end of your flyline?……john

Response:

I’ve been experimenting with different connections between my fly line and leader.  My local flyshop has a habit of tying a perfection loop into a line and then using a loop-to-loop connection but if I’m going to get a wind knot that’s where it will happen 90% of the time.  I’ve taken recently to tying a short section (18") of butt directly to the end of the line using a nail knot, then tying in a tapered leader, then tying in a tippet.  I end up clipping off a 1/2" of line anytime I have to change out that butt section which is more often than I’d like. Any other suggestions? TIA, Don — Don Anderson

Response:

going to get a wind knot that’s where it will happen 90% of the time.  I’ve taken recently to tying a short section (18") of butt directly to the end of the line using a nail knot, then tying in a tapered leader, then tying in a tippet.  I end up clipping off a 1/2" of line anytime I have to change out that butt

Don, I wonder how many posts you are going to get like this one. You know, where your question is addressed but no advice given? Myself, I use the perfection not on both the butt section and the leader.  I like the way it forms the loop to loop as far as turn over goes.  Less likelihood of the ‘hinging effect.’ I do recall this question coming up a long time ago and I saved the question and all of the answers….course I lost a whole big file of stuff while learning some of the various functions of my computer.  And I don’t remember what the answer was….I think it had something to do with casting…in order to avoid the knots. I must have retained something on a subconscious level because it moved the knots down into the tippet section. All I know is that it’s a real pickle trying to flyfish with a short term

Response:

Hi Don, I like to first needle nail knot a new tapered knotless monofilament leader directly to the end of my flyline. I am actually ’snelling’ on the leader. Then after I have used up all the taper by adding tippet material, I cut the leader at about 12 to 18 inches from the flyline and then attach another tapered leader. This gives me the same diameter and the same constancy of monofilament. You can shorten the new leader by cutting 12 to 18 inches from the butt before tying it on. This is not ‘thee way to do it’, but just another way to do it. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop http://www.kiene.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been experimenting with different connections between my fly line and leader.  My local flyshop has a habit of tying a perfection loop into a line and then using a loop-to-loop connection but if I’m going to get a wind knot that’s where it will happen 90% of the time.  I’ve taken recently to tying a short section (18") of butt directly to the end of the line using a nail knot, then tying in a tapered leader, then tying in a tippet.  I end up clipping off a 1/2" of line anytime I have to change out that butt section which is more often than I’d like. Any other suggestions? TIA, Don — Don Anderson

Response:

Don,    Try using the Leader Link from Eagle Claw. Eagle Claw Country Store Phone 1-800-628-0108 4245 East 46th Avenue Denver Colorado 80216 Leader Link For tapered lines (LL1) For level lines     (LL2) There are 3 links per package and cost $2.83 per pack. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ve been experimenting with different connections between my fly line and leader.  My local flyshop has a habit of tying a perfection loop into a line and then using a loop-to-loop connection but if I’m going to get a wind knot that’s where it will happen 90% of the time.  I’ve taken recently to tying a short section (18") of butt directly to the end of the line using a nail knot, then tying in a tapered leader, then tying in a tippet.  I end up clipping off a 1/2" of line anytime I have to change out that butt section which is more often than I’d like. Any other suggestions? TIA, Don — Don Anderson

Response:

I use a nail knot to tie a butt to the leader and then I put a surgeons loop at the end of that.I use a loop to loop connection to attach the leader.I don’t like to use a loop connection to my tippet because I believe it will affect the ability of the leader to lay out straight.Art Lee recommends never using a loop anywhhere on your leader but using a uni-knot to connect which is easier to tie than a nail knot and serves the same function.I have switched to this knot and I haven’t had any problems.

Response:

Don,    Try using the Leader Link from Eagle Claw. Eagle Claw Country Store Phone 1-800-628-0108 4245 East 46th Avenue Denver Colorado 80216 Leader Link For tapered lines (LL1) For level lines     (LL2) There are 3 links per package and cost $2.83 per pack.

Hear, Hear!  I’ve been using Leader Links for 20 years now, and wouldn’t waste my time trying anything else.  They work great, but I hardly know anybody else that uses them.  They don’t look as though they would be all that strong, but they are a hell of a lot stronger than the tippet of your leader (unless maybe you are fishing for blue marlin or something), which is all that you need. Kevin

Response:

Hear, Hear!  I’ve been using Leader Links for 20 years now, and wouldn’t waste my time trying anything else.  They work great, but I hardly know anybody else that uses them.  They don’t look as though they would be all that strong, but they are a hell of a lot stronger than the tippet of your leader (unless maybe you are fishing for blue marlin or something), which is all that you need.

When I recommended leader links to a friend of mine in Idaho he turned up his nose at them. Said he was a "purist". I pointed out that he was using a graphite rod, a nylon leader, and a synthetic flyline. It turned out that the guy didn’t even know how to tie a nail knot or a needle knot. He had it done at the tackle shop. Sheesh! — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Ernie, I’ve seen these but have never had the guts to use them.

Question:

 Other tests I’ve seen have given similar numbers. While there may  be some variation  of actual knot strength – and perhaps knots change relative positions,  there relative strength of the knots is consistent in all tests I’ve  seen; a double or triple surgeon tests stronger than a blood knot. A trilene  knot is stronger than clinch knot. A George Harvey knot is stronger than  a turl knot. etc etc.

Agreed.  The general conclusion they state about terminal knots is that the knots that pass twice through the eye are stronger than those that pass only once. I personally use a 6 barrel blood knot because it is straight and easy to tie, and a trilene knot because it is easy to tie and strong. cheers,         -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html NOTICE: DO NOT ADD MY NAME TO _ANY_ MAILING LISTS.  

Response:

Ralph Cutter published some similar results in this ng some months back. Other tests I’ve seen have given similar numbers. While there may be some variation of actual knot strength – and perhaps knots change relative positions, there relative strength of the knots is consistent in all tests I’ve seen; a double or triple surgeon tests stronger than a blood knot. A trilene knot is stronger than clinch knot. A George Harvey knot is stronger than a turl knot. etc etc. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – EXPLANATION:  Column "AA" was done with a high tensile strength leader material that is,  less stretch (Fenwick Extra Strong Formula).  Column "BB" was done with a  high energy to break that is, more stretch (Climax Freshwater Tippet/Trout)  Each knot tied 15 times with each material (wet) using 6X but are valid up  to 15#.  Strengths determined by a laboratory instrument, and were done  according to the "American Standard Testing Methods". RESULTS:                               AA         BB                              —-       —- TERMINAL KNOTS:    George Harvey’s Knot      93.7%      96.4%    Improved Clinch Knot      90.9%      86.2%    Orvis Knot                93.6%      92.9%    Palomar Knot             100.0%     100.0%    Trilene Knot             100.0%     100.0%    Turle Knot                72.7%      85.7%    Uni Knot                  75.8%      92.9% LINE-TO-LINE:    Blood Knot (4 barrels)    69.7%      79.3%    Blood Knot (6 barrels)    78.1%      91.2%    Triple Surgeon’s Knot     96.9%      98.3%    Surgeons’s Loop           87.9%      96.9% OTHER:    Overhand Knot             72.7%      89.7% SOURCE:  Bernie Taylor, "Testing Knots".  Fly Fisherman, Dec 1995 pp 52-55, 82-83. — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

Response:

There has been much discussion about knot strength.  The following is a summary of the results of a knot strength test published in Fly Fisherman magazine, Dec 1995. I’d welcome the results of other published tests. -tgades EXPLANATION:   Column "AA" was done with a high tensile strength leader material that is,   less stretch (Fenwick Extra Strong Formula).  Column "BB" was done with a   high energy to break that is, more stretch (Climax Freshwater Tippet/Trout)   Each knot tied 15 times with each material (wet) using 6X but are valid up   to 15#.  Strengths determined by a laboratory instrument, and were done   according to the "American Standard Testing Methods". RESULTS:                                AA         BB                               —-       —-  TERMINAL KNOTS:     George Harvey’s Knot      93.7%      96.4%     Improved Clinch Knot      90.9%      86.2%     Orvis Knot                93.6%      92.9%     Palomar Knot             100.0%     100.0%     Trilene Knot             100.0%     100.0%     Turle Knot                72.7%      85.7%     Uni Knot                  75.8%      92.9%  LINE-TO-LINE:     Blood Knot (4 barrels)    69.7%      79.3%     Blood Knot (6 barrels)    78.1%      91.2%     Triple Surgeon’s Knot     96.9%      98.3%     Surgeons’s Loop           87.9%      96.9%  OTHER:     Overhand Knot             72.7%      89.7% SOURCE:   Bernie Taylor, "Testing Knots".  Fly Fisherman, Dec 1995 pp 52-55, 82-83. — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Fly Fishers, Since fishing the winter season in SE Minnesota I have encountered a problem with ice formation along the fly line and leader and in the line guides of the fly rod.  I’m sure this must be a common problem. Has anyone worked out a solution?  Please write. The absolute best way to avoid ice formation on your guides during winter is to travel far enough south to where the only ice that forms is meant for "pina coladas". I used to try flyfishing in winter too, until a bad fall caused by frozen felts on the shelf ice dumped me in the river. It was days before I finally got the chill out and weeks before my back quit aching. Since then, I wait until it warms up several degrees above freezing before venturing out. Tight lines! Guy

I guess you don’t go winter steelheading then???

Response:

Dear Fly Fishers, Since fishing the winter season in SE Minnesota I have encountered a problem with ice formation along the fly line and leader and in the line guides of the fly rod.  I’m sure this must be a common problem. Has anyone worked out a solution?  Please write.  

The absolute best way to avoid ice formation on your guides during winter is to travel far enough south to where the only ice that forms is meant for "pina coladas". I used to try flyfishing in winter too, until a bad fall caused by frozen felts on the shelf ice dumped me in the river. It was days before I finally got the chill out and weeks before my back quit aching. Since then, I wait until it warms up several degrees above freezing before venturing out. Tight lines! Guy  

Response:

Dear Fly Fishers, Since fishing the winter season in SE Minnesota I have encountered a problem with ice formation along the fly line and leader and in the line guides of the fly rod.  I’m sure this must be a common problem. Has anyone worked out a solution?  Please write.   Thank you Renner Anderson

Response:

: Since fishing the winter season in SE Minnesota I have encountered a : problem with ice formation along the fly line and leader and in the : line guides of the fly rod.  I’m sure this must be a common problem. No kidding.  I will often hold the rod in the river for awhile, working the line in-and-out.  If the water’s cold this is not enough and I have to break it off the rod and line by hand.  Bummer.  I advise: be sure to keep the line and tip-top fairly clean otherwise you may be unable to reel the fatter part of the line in when mr. big is on.  I may be sensitive, but I’ve felt stupid breaking the ice off the rod while the steelie is jumping around at the other end.  Keeping the line well-treated helps.   I am ready to learn a better way,   rork.

Response:

Dear Fly Fishers, Since fishing the winter season in SE Minnesota I have encountered a problem with ice formation along the fly line and leader and in the line guides of the fly rod.  I’m sure this must be a common problem. Has anyone worked out a solution?  Please write. Thank you Renner Anderson

heat tapes works good for me…run it off a 9volt battery pack.

Response:

Question:

Okay, I tie on a dry fly and go out and fish.  But I don’t catch anything and want to change my fly (as opposed to closing my fly).  How do I do this?  Cut the old one off?  Untie (how) the fly that is already on?  What?  Sure sound like dumb but important questions to me and I hope someone can help a beginner.  Thanks. — Gerald Strom University of Illinois at Chicago

Response:

Okay, I tie on a dry fly and go out and fish.  But I don’t catch anything and want to change my fly (as opposed to closing my fly).  How do I do this?  Cut the old one off?  Untie (how) the fly that is already on?  What?  Sure sound like dumb but important questions to me and I hope someone can help a beginner.  Thanks. —

cut it off…put the dry on you hatband of drying patch… if this makes your tippet too short then cut this off and replace it too… TimW

Response:

Okay, I tie on a dry fly and go out and fish.  But I don’t catch anything and want to change my fly (as opposed to closing my fly).  How do I do this?  Cut the old one off?  Untie (how) the fly that is already on?  What?  Sure sound like dumb but important questions to me and I hope someone can help a beginner.  Thanks.

Hi Gerald First off there is no such thing as a dumb question.  That’s what this group is all about — questions and answers. When you want to change a fly just cut one off and tie on another.  There are special nippers made for this purpose OR if you don’t have one a small finger nail clipper will work just fine.  When I first started I used a finger nail clipper on a loop of old fly line around my neck for several years. There are several different knots used to tie on flies.  You can go to the library and find a book on fly fishing or check at your local fly shop.  There is a neat little book (about 3"x5") on knots available today.  I personally like the Uni Knot but there are other good knots as well.  Many of the fly line manufacturers include knot tying instructions with there fly line.  Also I have an old aluminum Perine fly box that has the knot tying instruction on the front of the box. Keep asking the questions and I’m sure you’ll find someone more experienced on this group who will help. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT(96 catalog)

Response:

Okay, I tie on a dry fly and go out and fish.  But I don’t catch anything and want to change my fly (as opposed to closing my fly).  How do I do this?  Cut the old one off?  Untie (how) the fly that is already on?  What?  Sure sound like dumb but important questions to me and I hope someone can help a beginner.  Thanks. —

I must admit that I have never thought about it till now.  basicly i cut (bite) the old one off,  I guess that this results in the tippet ( end of the leader) becomming shorter and shorter.   In the UK you can get in small "snap" links from Mustard which are designed for easy fly changing Julian

Response:

Just cut fly off as close to hook as as possible then tie on new fly.Best to have someone show you improved clinch knot or uni knot

best of luck -jkralic

Response:

Heck, if you haven’t caught the darn thing in a tree behind you, you can’t be that dumb… Just snip it off and buy lots of tippet.

Response:

writes: Okay, I tie on a dry fly and go out and fish.  But I don’t catch anything and want to change my fly (as opposed to closing my fly).  How do I do this? Cut the old one off?  Untie (how) the fly that is already on?  What?  Sure sound like dumb but important questions to me and I hope someone can help a beginner.  Thanks.

No need to apologize for your question.  the only stupid question is the one that doesn’t get asked.  Enjoyed the pun by the way ;^ When you want to change flies, you simply cut off the first one and tie on another. Eventually this will shorten your tippet (if you don’t lose it to a fly eating tree or bush first, or cast some wind knots into it), but then you cut that off and tie on a new piece.  Orvis has a waterproof knot booklet for about $5 that has the appropriate knots listed and how to tie them. Personally I use the Orvis knot to tie on most trout flies and a Trilene knot to tie on any fly large enough to pass the tippet through the eye twice (large streamers, bass flies, steelheadsalmon flies, saltwater flies).  On flies that I want to use a lot of action on I will often use a Duncan’s loop.                            Hope this helps,                                      Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

Response:

In follow up to one beginners question to another, does it matter what size leader you use as long as the tippet is a smaller size? Do I need to change leaders if I’m going to the trout stream after I’ve been fishing for bluegill in a pond, or just the tippet? Thanks. D. Lowe

Response:

In follow up to one beginners question to another, does it matter what size leader you use as long as the tippet is a smaller size? Do I need to change leaders if I’m going to the trout stream after I’ve been fishing for bluegill in a pond, or just the tippet? Thanks. D. Lowe

I myself work on the premise that my tippet should be either the same or one size smaller than the tip section of my leader. For determining the end "tippet" size a good general rule is too devide your hook size by three. Example: Size 12 adams – use a 4x tippet. Reel simple

Response:

In follow up to one beginners question to another, does it matter what size leader you use as long as the tippet is a smaller size? Do I need to change leaders if I’m going to the trout stream after I’ve been fishing for bluegill in a pond, or just the tippet? Thanks. D. Lowe I myself work on the premise that my tippet should be either the same or one size smaller than the tip section of my leader. For determining the end "tippet" size a good general rule is too devide your hook size by three. Example: Size 12 adams – use a 4x tippet. Reel simple

One approach is to use a 3X leader and then step down to the desired tippet size  using 6 – 8 inch long transition sections.  For example, if you want to use a 6X tippet, you would use 8 inches of 4X and 8 inches of 5 X between the leader and tippet section. This way you only carry one size leader. Regards, Chuck

Response:

One approach is to use a 3X leader and then step down to the desired tippet size  using 6 – 8 inch long transition sections.  For example, if you want to use a 6X tippet, you would use 8 inches of 4X and 8 inches of 5 X between the leader and tippet section. This way you only carry one size leader. Regards, Chuck

Not a bad idea Chuck except for me personally I find it very difficult to  tie on those little pieces of tippet material while there is a feeding frenzy going on. For some reason my fingers and brain seem to disconnect while whatching trout splashing and jumping all around me, not to mention the problem of cold fingers or low light. I generally carry a range of leaders sizes 3x-6x pretied with 3 feet of tippet section done while at home whatching a fishing show or something. This allows me more time to fish and less aggravation on the water. I only tie on the water if I have to. Tight lines Russ

Response:

(DLowe21757) writes: In follow up to one beginners question to another, does it matter what size leader you use as long as the tippet is a smaller size? Do I need to change leaders if I’m going to the trout stream after I’ve been fishing for bluegill in a pond, or just the tippet? Thanks. D. Lowe

Boy this can be a can of worms! Commercial knotless tapered leaders consist of three parts – butt section (which is heavy and level or very slightly tapered), the tapering section (which rapidly tapers down to your tippet size), and the tippet section (which is also level and the part that you tie onto the fly).  So your leader already has a tippet on it.  You can replace the tippet as needed as you break it off or cut it down from changing flies.  Much less expensive to tie on a new tippet section than to change an entire leader every time you mess up the tippet.  You can also change how your leader performs by cutting back or adding tippet.  If you add tippet you will get more slack out near the fly, if you cut back tippet you will get more power delivered to the fly resulting is less slack and more ease in turning over large flies or regular flies in windy conditions.  You can play around with the butt section in the opposite manner to accomplish the same thing, but that means tying two knots instead of one.  And of course if you really want to get carried away you can vary both to fine tune the leader to your needs. A good approximate guide to which tippet size to use is to divide the size of your fly by 3 and use the resultant number for your tippet X number. For instance: size 18 fly divided by 3 = 6X tippet, size 12 divided by 3 = 4X, size 16 divided by 3 = 5X and a little left over.  In slow clear water with spooky trout you may have to go one X smaller, and in fast pocket water you may be able to go one X larger.  Listen to what the fish say, they’ll tell you. Length of leader is more a function of the water type than anything else. We use longer leaders for greater subtlety (less obtrusive than the fly line) and more suppleness.  Long leaders – 9 to 12 ft.- are most commonly needed in slow clear water with spooky trout.  That is because the trout gets a long time to inspect your fly in slow water and are typically more critical of drag.  Short leaders – 6 to 7 1/2 ft. – are used in faster water for better control with typically larger flies in fast water conditions.  In fast water the trout gets only a short time to see your fly before he takes it or rejects it and there is not usually as much food available (harsher conditions) so he tends to be more opportunistic than in the slower water conditions.  Since we don’t need the added subtlety and suppleness of the longer leader in faster conditions we don’t use it. Always best to use the shortest heaviest leader you can get away with. Again listen to the trout.   If the trout aren’t taking your fly you probably need to go longer and finer.  Sometimes the shortest stoutest leader that will work is a 12 ft. 6X or 7X leader.                      Hope this helps,                              Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

Response:

Question:

Hi ! my name is Frank , I’m working in a fishing store here in canada , I have 5 years of flyfishing experience in streams , pounds , and lakes. I’m offering you the oportunity to buy fishing equipements via E-Mail (flyfishing or else) Just E-Mail me what you need and I’ll do my best to send it to you. (Sorry our catalog is not ready yet )

Response:

Hi ! my name is Frank , I’m working in a fishing store here in canada , I have 5 years of flyfishing experience in streams , pounds , and lakes. I’m offering you the oportunity to buy fishing equipements via E-Mail (flyfishing or else)

Just a suggestion Frank:  Advertising in a discussion group is generally discouraged.  While your message was not really intrusive and you’re certainly not the only one here that has equipment to sell participating in the discussions here is going to go a long way to attracting customers rather then just soliciting for our business.   Al Beaty is a perfect example of this.  He contributes more to this (and the flytying) group then just about anyone and his signature has just a brief notice that he also is in the business of selling flyfishing equipment.  I am more likely to do business with him then someone that only solicits.  Now, if he’d just carry some of the stuff I’m looking for I might actually buy something from him. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

Response:

Hi ! my name is Frank , I’m working in a fishing store here in canada , I have 5 years of flyfishing experience in streams , pounds , and lakes. I’m offering you the oportunity to buy fishing equipements via E-Mail (flyfishing or else)

5 years ? Shit Frank…i’ve stood at *one hole* for 5 years…waiting for a 10 year old fish ! Man…it took me 5 years just to tie one Tbone Streamer Special ! I use flylines that are twice that old…! TimW

Response:

(Will) writes:

Yo, lighten up dude!! A guys got to start somewhere!!  Someone who’s been fishing for 1 week can still call himself a flyfisher! Darren.

Response:

(Will) writes: Yo, lighten up dude!! A guys got to start somewhere!!  Someone who’s been fishing for 1 week can still call himself a flyfisher! Darren.

        yeah, and he can piss on my leg and tell me it’s rainin’, too.  but i’m not gonna let him get away with calling himself a thunderstorm.         a. wayne harrison

Response:

Question:

i am planning a trip to northern minnesota sometime in june or july and would greatly appreciate information re: fly fishing for northern pike, muskies or any of the other exotic species that inhabit the lakes in the area.  i am bored with trout.  i am from washington state and would be happy to exchange info and tips with some minnesota person interested in visiting my part of the world.

Response:

i am planning a trip to northern minnesota sometime in june or july and would greatly appreciate information re: fly fishing for northern pike, muskies or any of the other exotic species that inhabit the lakes in the area.  i am bored with trout.  i am from washington state and would be happy to exchange info and tips with some minnesota person interested in visiting my part of the world.

Well, I flyfished _hard_ for a week in northern Minnesota in August in a lake that is absolutely loaded with pike and caught not a one. It was very saddening. (Yes, I know what I’m doing and used all the best flies and techniques for pike!) The problem, from what I learned, is that pike hold in deep, cooler water in summer.  It’s hard to get down to them with a fly rod, even with a full sinking line (I tried one). Between June and July, I’d go in early June.  You might have better luck than I did! On the other hand, I had success catching some nice yellow perch and smallmouth.  My advice: go planning to fish for smallmouth and you’ll be happy.  Go in spring or fall and you’ll catch pike. Scott in DC

Response: