Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hairy Trout writes: Now we have Hairy Trout telling us that "David H is real."  But, who is Hairy Trou?.  Can we trust him?  Is he just another of Mr. G’s aliases? Look in GG’s archives and see if you can find references to Doug Knight. That’s who ‘hairy’ is, he actually went to work with George for a while but things ‘didn’t work out’<g. <g is right. "didn’t work out" may be the understatement of 1999… It’s more like wouldn’t work out. The Company was to be turned over to my control but it wasn’t.  And when it was I was treated as a mere Forman. Big fukin’ Joke. The real fraud was that he was wasting my time. In reality he couldn’t make his mill work. I DID. When I left, my secrets went with me. I figured that the time I spent there was worth at least 15K plus expenses. There were many promises made which were basically worthless. Much like everything else about the operation. Rub the Genies Lamp. What he learned in 8 months I learned in 6 short weeks and that frightened him. There a has been a toughen biting silence on my part since August

All I can say, Doug, is live and learn.  You obviously can not trust some people.  I am willing to bet that Dave H. is either one of George’s employees, or a new found friend not yet corrupted.  I think most appreciate your candid remarks about George and his operation.  Perhaps Dave H.  will soon join you. Dave L.

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And Dave H earns the Plonk of the Week Award. THIS IS SPAMING

<ad nauseum

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THen would he have qualified as a ff’er? If so maybe HE could have shown me how to cast properly and then be able to enjoy more of this sport<G Inner demons have kept me at this game and I am afraid mine will keep me on the river and the tying bench as well. Ghosts of fish to be caught and those that got away will haunt me forever!! Merry Xmas to all Pierre – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – THIS IS SPAMING THIS IS SPAMING THIS IS SPAMING An appropriate simile would be that of Edgar A. Poe.  A brilliant man, a literay giant.  But alas there the simile ends.  For he too was driven by the inner demons.  Suffering bouts alcholic binges, he would abstain and attempt self medication with available depressants, much like some do today with anti-depressants…so ineptly named. The chemical imbalance somewhat interuppted, he would again then be functional for a short while before the manic-depressive personality disorder manifested itself. Thank god he didn’t have the internet……the good would have been lost among the endless drivel. A shame too, that they didn’t have a good twelve step program at that time, for it deals with the manner of ones thinking, the drinking being only a symptom. Who votes that we forward every damned item in this newsgroup to our own….E.A. Poe…oughta occupy his damend fingers for a while, eh?…. by the way….the kid really got off on the norad/santa thing…..thanks for

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<snipped Dave, I did a little investigating.  Mr. David Henney’s ISP is southwind.net, which is based out of Wichita, Kansas and they outsource their news service to bcandid.com.   bc.

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says… THen would he have qualified as a ff’er? If so maybe HE could have shown me how to cast properly and then be able to enjoy more of this sport<G Inner demons have kept me at this game and I am afraid mine will keep me on the river and the tying bench as well. Ghosts of fish to be caught and those that got away will haunt me forever!! Merry Xmas to all Pierre

Ah Pierre, You should not have to complain! I hear it is warmer out your way that this end of the earth! Head out to the outlet from Bonnybrook and do some Catch and Release! The output from the plant is warmer and the trout should still be lingering around there! I am not sure what the water flow is on the Bow now but if I recall correctly it should be pretty low in the winter… — Michael Era

Question:

I need some help casting.  I’m fairly new to the sport and trying to improve all the time.  I just bought my second rod and spent a lot more money on it. I did it right this time, I hope.  However, that’s have nothing to do with my problem.  I was out at our local park practicing my casting.  The back cast looked good, the loop was fairly small and shot backwards like two horizontal lines that straightened out to one.   I let the line continue to straighten out and then made my forward cast without whipping the rod.  The line moved over my head and rolled in front of me.  That’s the problem.  The forward cast had a large loop instead of shooting straight forward.  I should mention that there was a very slight wind that I was casting into. However, it was a very slight wind.  I’ve been told to close up the loop in the back and it will help eliminate the forward loop.  However, I think my back cast looks good.  How can I get rid of the large loop in my forward cast?  Any advise will help.  I will try all requests at my local park before driving out to the field.

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I should have said that this regarding fly fishing.  Thanks

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Question:

I’ve heard from a man that did it that building a fly rod, with the right equipment, can be done reasonably well and with about eight hours of work.  I’d like to invest in the tools and then spend a little less money and a lot more care making rods for myself and my spouse. Any recommendations on inexpensive tools of the trade?  What machines are necessary versus just a convenience?  The best rod building guide? And what to look out for on your first go? Lastly, which are the better of the less expensive blanks?  I’ve invested in fly fishing and fly tying and so I know that every fish I catch is worth about twelve bucks.  I’d like to get them down to around four dollars/fish some day, so I’d just as soon skip the five hundred dollar graphite blanks. Thanks for any info, Sean

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Rod Building Suppliers http://www.customtackle.com/                    Custom Tackle Supply http://www.mudhole.com                        Mudhole Custom Tackle http://www.shofftackle.com                Shoff Tackle http://www.angelfire.com/ks/bingham/     Bingham Enterprises http://www.anglersworkshop.com                Angler’s Workshop http://www.Cabelas.com                                Cabelas http://www.HuntersAngling.com                  Hunter’s Angling Supplies Expect to spend a minimum of $150 on equipment, closer to $250 for decent equipment. You’ll need a rod wrapper, finishing motor and stand, burnishing tool, exacto knife, epoxy, finish and syringes, mixing cups, thread St. Croix has an excellent reputation for quality inexpensive blanks. I’d have someone teach you the basics rather than learning solely from a book. Good luck, Ian McAllister Rodworks Seattle, WA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve heard from a man that did it that building a fly rod, with the right equipment, can be done reasonably well and with about eight hours of work.  I’d like to invest in the tools and then spend a little less money and a lot more care making rods for myself and my spouse. Any recommendations on inexpensive tools of the trade?  What machines are necessary versus just a convenience?  The best rod building guide? And what to look out for on your first go? Lastly, which are the better of the less expensive blanks?  I’ve invested in fly fishing and fly tying and so I know that every fish I catch is worth about twelve bucks.  I’d like to get them down to around four dollars/fish some day, so I’d just as soon skip the five hundred dollar graphite blanks. Thanks for any info, Sean

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Have a look at the rod building course at http://www.flyanglersonline.com that should help you out. TL MC

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While a rotisserie motor will serve the same purpose as a drying motor, it is the method of attachment between motor and blank that makes the real difference.  My first drying motor was a castoff from an old grill and could be made to work with a piece of all thread and masking tape to build up "bushings" to mount to the motor and the blank, but the problem is getting the blank and the motor shaft aligned so the rod rotates about it’s center rather than in an ellipse.  If you try to apply finish with the rod off center, you wind up chasing your wraps with the brush. It is next to impossible to get clean finish lines under these conditions. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Am I right in thinking that a finishing/drying motor looks suspiciously like a BBQ spit motor, only much more expensive?

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Am I right in thinking that a finishing/drying motor looks suspiciously like a BBQ spit motor, only much more expensive? David Correct ! Works just as well too. TL MC

I’ve seen dishwasher motor rig that also works well for rods. What also works good is if you build a 6 or so inch diameter styrofoam  disc and attach it to the drive for drying epoxy flies. l—–l            [] l        l——- [] l—–l            [] motor  drive  styro the wheel slowly spins and allows the epoxy on the flies to dry in a symmetrically even fashion, which as we all know, will quadruple your chances of catching a fish. Walt — Ezflyfish.com                 Blue Ridge Book Gallery Quality Gear & Service        Used & Out-of-Print Books http://www.ezflyfish.com      http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

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Perfectly true, assymetrical epoxy will cause any self-respecting trout to go into a hissy fit. Unless you are tying flat -headed, flat-sided minnow imitations. In which case, the motor is superfluous. TL MC

dang Mike….i never thought of using pox flies for trout. when i was a resident down south we used to make pox flies fer saltwater fish. walt — Ezflyfish.com                 Blue Ridge Book Gallery Quality Gear & Service        Used & Out-of-Print Books http://www.ezflyfish.com      http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

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I use a really simple method. I took a dowel just a little larger than the sqaure hole on the BBQ motor and cut it square. I then took another dowel just smaller than the size of the Rod Handle.  I then drilled a hole in the middle of this and glued the smaller dowel into it. Once I had the "Chuck" made I simply took a bicycle tube and cut a section out of it. This can then be rolled right onto the rod handle and you have a good chuck that will work for just about any rod.  Plus there is no chance of marring the rod because the Rolled up tube is all that touches the rod. Gary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While a rotisserie motor will serve the same purpose as a drying motor, it is the method of attachment between motor and blank that makes the real difference.  My first drying motor was a castoff from an old grill and could be made to work with a piece of all thread and masking tape to build up "bushings" to mount to the motor and the blank, but the problem is getting the blank and the motor shaft aligned so the rod rotates about it’s center rather than in an ellipse.  If you try to apply finish with the rod off center, you wind up chasing your wraps with the brush. It is next to impossible to get clean finish lines under these conditions.  Am I right in thinking that a finishing/drying motor looks suspiciously like a BBQ spit motor, only much more expensive?

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Am I right in thinking that a finishing/drying motor looks suspiciously

like a BBQ spit motor, only much more expensive? David

Correct ! Works just as well too. TL MC

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<SNIPPED A cheap drill chuck, obtainable at any hardware store, correctly aligned to the shaft obviates this problem. The best I have seen to date was a special purpose chuck with nylon "fingers".  Otherwise plug and  tape the rod end to prevent damage in the chuck, and do not overtighten. TL MC

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Perfectly true, assymetrical epoxy will cause any self-respecting trout to go into a hissy fit. Unless you are tying flat -headed, flat-sided minnow imitations. In which case, the motor is superfluous. TL MC

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What machines are necessary versus just a convenience?

Make or buy a simple rod wrapping jig if you plan to build several. The best rod building guide?

Dale Clemen’s Advanced Custom Rod Building from Winchester Press is more than you will ever need to know.  You don’t have to agree with everything he writes but he does cover just about everything.  Luis Garcia’s Handcrafting a Graphite Fly Rod from Frank Amato Books has great closeup photos. Lastly, which are the better of the less expensive blanks?

If you are in no rush check out those web sites that others have posted in response to your question around November – February for closeouts, cosmetically defective rods, discontinued blanks, etc. I’ll make one more pitch for MCT epoxy guide wrap finish available at www.fishdoc.com.  You’ll definitely need a drying motor if you decide to use their finish.  I like MCT better than Flex Coat Lite. After applying finish to your wraps, leave several drops of it on a Post-It note or piece of aluminum foil.  Later when you’re trying to guess how much the finish has cured, you can touch one of these test drops rather than potentially spoil your unfinished epoxy coating. Mu

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Question:

Looking for web sites with current Colorado water flows for fly fishing streams.  Please email me the url’s of any sites that have this info.  Thanks

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http://www.dnr.state.co.us/water/flow/ Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Looking for web sites with current Colorado water flows for fly fishing streams.  Please email me the url’s of any sites that have this info.  Thanks

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Question:

Was last there five years ago and am thinking of going again in August and know they have a new system for permits with a new automated Provincial Parc permit phone # and all (which I have), but I’m not sure of my dates yet so I have a simple question: Is the system basically the same now as it was before, i.e., you call, reserve your permit, but then gotta pick it up and pay at one of the Ranger stations at the entry points?         Thanks in advance. Sure wish those folks designing these automated tele systems would think about how to provide a way to get some simple information in addition to providing rote services. tgb

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Is the system basically the

same now as it was before, i.e., you call, reserve your permit, but then gotta pick it up and pay at one of the Ranger stations at the entry points? I was sending my answer, when aol decided to close down, so I may be posting this twice. I just received my Remote Area Border Crossing Permit today. Since most or all of the remote customs areas have been closed, you either have to do it by mail or check in at a spot that may not be near your crossing. By mail. they want a photocopy of Birth Certificate and $30 per person or family. Mine took about 2 weeks to process. Dave http://members.tripod.com/~VideoDave

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In response to my question as to permits for Quetico camping DavesVideo I just received my Remote Area Border Crossing Permit today. Since most or all of the remote customs areas have been closed, you either have to do it by mail or check in at a spot that may not be near your crossing. By mail. they want a photocopy of Birth Certificate and $30 per person or family. Mine took about 2 weeks to process.

        Nah Dave, that’s a different thing. That’s for when you want to cross the Border at a … remote point of entry. But, for instance, if you are gonna go into the Parc from one of the northern entry points, and gonna come in from, say, Atikokan, and cross the border at Int’l Falls or Pigeon River, then you don’t need that, and that’s what I’m gonna do. That’s a permit to cross the border, needed at certain remote spots. What I’m interested in is the permit for camping. And my question again is whether the system for these is the same as it used to be: you call, reserve a permit for X date entry, then hafta pick same up at a Ranger station at the Parc when you go in, at which point you also pay. Answer anyone? tgb

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We’re doing the same thing this year – reserve permits and pick them up at a rangers station. For what it’s worth, we reserved our permits back in Feb which was before the new system was put into place. Was last there five years ago and am thinking of going again in August and know they have a new system for permits with a new automated Provincial Parc permit phone # and all (which I have), but I’m not sure of my dates yet so I have a simple question: Is the system basically the same now as it was before, i.e., you call, reserve your permit, but then gotta pick it up and pay at one of the Ranger stations at the entry points?    Thanks in advance. Sure wish those folks designing these automated tele systems would think about how to provide a way to get some simple information in addition to providing rote services. tgb

- Mark Chun Santa Barbara, CA

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In response to my post asking about current Quetico permit processes qrk We’re doing the same thing this year – reserve permits and pick them up at a rangers station. For what it’s worth, we reserved our permits back in Feb which was before the new system was put into place.

        Hey, thanks, and for what it’s worth I found out I’m already screwed. Called to get a permit (finally nailed down my possible dates of entry) and they seem to have zip available for Aug. 12, 13, 14, etc. at entry points not also requiring one of these new remote border crossing permits. Arrgg.         Anyone know of any nice lakes/areas up around SW Ontario not in Quetico where you can find some solitude, nice canoeing, and good smallmouth fly-fishing? Smallmouth just ain’t all that common once you get out of that neck of the woods. tgb

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Question:

I am coming to San Francisco, the Nappa Valley and Yosemite National Park in September for a holiday. I am looking for a venue (preferably in Yosemite), where I can fish for a day and also hire some tackle and maybe a guide? Can anyone help me, I don’t think I can take ten days without a day fishing!! Thanks for the help . . .

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I am coming to San Francisco, the Nappa Valley and Yosemite National Park in September for a holiday. I am looking for a venue (preferably in Yosemite), where I can fish for a day and also hire some tackle and maybe a guide? Can anyone help me, I don’t think I can take ten days without a day fishing!! Thanks for the help . . .

 You can fish the river right in Yosemite Valley for trout.  There are 1 day a licenses available for about $7 as well as a 7 day license, non-residence licenses are expensive (hell, the residense license is expensive – $27.50). There are lakes in the Upper areas of Yosemite also, they fish very well with a wax worm.  The Merced River, in the valley is good with both fly and worms. Don’t know of guides in Yosemite.  Just North of the Napa Valley is Clear Lake, is a great Bass lake, guides are available, Just to the East of the lower end of Napa is Lake Berryessa, trout and bass, guides available.  In San Francisco, you can go out on the party (head) boats for both Salmon and Rockfish, they have rental tackle available ($6) the license is required and the cost of the trip is about $35 for Rockfish (3-20#) fish and $50 for Salmon. See these URL’s for additional info.  http://usafishing.com/fleet.html  http://www.anglernet.com/web/selectlk.htm  http://www.fishsniffer.com/  http://www.dfg.ca.gov/ Regards, Bill — Opinions expressed are mine not necessarily my employers. All other standard disclaimers apply! Remove nospam. To email reply.

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You could fish in a lake that has a world record largemouth in it.  That lake would be Spring Lake in Sonoma County.   Take a Rainbow Trout lure and you may get your picture on the cover of a magazine.  There is for sure at least one 24 pounder in the lake. P.S.  If anyone is thinking of emailing me and telling me that I don’t know what I am talking about, you better get your facts straight first then come off of the porch.  Just a friendly word of warning. BigDaddy

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Boy, Big Daddy…the "friendly word of warning" sounds like an invitation to flaming for some real bummers out there.   Let’s hope not.  But uh, could you share some information?  Has there been a lot of hoopla?  Do you plan to go for it? Injun Jim USN (Ret.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You could fish in a lake that has a world record largemouth in it.  That lake would be Spring Lake in Sonoma County.   Take a Rainbow Trout lure and you may get your picture on the cover of a magazine.  There is for sure at least one 24 pounder in the lake. P.S.  If anyone is thinking of emailing me and telling me that I don’t know what I am talking about, you better get your facts straight first then come off of the porch.  Just a friendly word of warning. BigDaddy

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Injun, I only say that because the last time I told the story on this group I got email from nuts all over the US telling me that I was crazy and that I had lost my grip on reality.  Even some people threatened me.  You would think that all fishermen would be interested to know about what would be the new world record but I soon found out that was not the case.  I thought that I was doing a service to the people in this group by telling what I was able to find out through about 2 weeks worth of investigation.  Many people did not see my information in the same way. That is why I am reluctant to tell it again, because inevitably I will get the same batch of emails that I did before.  It is the actions of a few idiots that keep people like me who are truly interested in very large Bass from publicly talking about what I have learned. Sorry for the ranting but I felt it necessary to explain.  I am not at all inviting anyone to flame me.  It was just merely a precaution. I will be glad to privately email you what I was able to learn and send a picture also if you are interested let me know. Thanks and Keep your worm wet. BigDaddy

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Big Daddy, I thought that I was doing a service to the people in this group by telling what I was able to find out through about 2 weeks worth of investigation.  Many people did not see my information in the same way.

What ever happened with that record.  Last I knew they were checking the bathroom scales.  It was obvious they weren’t going to let the record stand, but I never heard anything official. Richard

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Question:

Too All: Take the time too see the NEW added links and fresh info for Jersey fishermen. All my links are for All fishermen Fresh, Fly and Salt … As A member of the International Fishing Ring NOW you can access over 900 fishing sites US & International At the bottom of the site in the counter logo you can leave me a message if you care too, What the heck just say HELLO< Jersey Fishin’     http://members.aol.com/trout26805/index.htm Please bookmark this site Tight lines, ANDY

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looking for a place to do fresh water fishing  need to rent a boat too any ideas                thanks              wolforman

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Question:

Great Post!! I had the advantage of learning an appreciation of nature & fishing from my father at an early age. Although he wasn’t a fly fisherman & we fished for bass, musky, northerns etc, he had a love of wilderness & we shared some wonderful times together. Since leaving my father’s home some thirty years ago & moving to Colorado, I’ve evolved into a fly fisherman through alot of reading, trial & error, and countless hours on the stream. The way I fish today, is very different from the fishing I did with my father, but it is firmly rooted in the appreciation of fish, water & nature I learned from him.   I flyfish in my own way, that is more restrictive than George’s "one" definition. But this is FOR ME. I don’t define flyfishing for others by how I fish.  I would probably be considered to be following the "Art Form.". For me, when things are "right", the pleasure is viseral, elementary & fundamental & may or may not involve catching fish. However, flaming, belittling other people’s ideas or ways of doing things, & self rightuous preachings do not advances one’s cause. In fact the opposite is the result. Like most things, flyfishing is personnal & individual. There are no rules except for those you choose to follow. There is no one right way. Willi

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I never used a strike indicator until about two years ago.  My eyes are deteriorating because of diabetes and I have trouble seeing my leader/line.  I put on a piece of yarn I got from my wife (Lefty’s idea), and was amazed at the strikes I was able to detect.

  I limit the use of strike indicators for those times of day when I would otherwise be unable to see my leader, so I guess i’m as unethical as Dave. Anybody who uses anything to aid his visual capacity must be unethical; I demand that all of you unethical polaroid user/abusers turn yourselves in at once.                                     Charlie

Response:

William Loehman writes:

<<…..However, flaming, belittling other people’s ideas or ways of doing things, & self rightuous preachings do not advances one’s cause. In fact the opposite is the result. A couple of great posts, especially the above.  I learned to fly fish in the 40s from my mom and dad, on the Deerfield, the Westfield, and the Farmington rivers.  We did not have most of the "neat" things available to fly fishermen today.  We didn’t have zingers  or nippers.   And, we didn’t have strike indicators OR Gink.  The flames I have seen on ROFF must come in jest, because if you approve of one innovation (Gink for instance) but disapprove of another (strike indicators, for instance), then you are surely a hypocrite of the first order.   I never used a strike indicator until about two years ago.  My eyes are deteriorating because of diabetes and I have trouble seeing my leader/line.  I put on a piece of yarn I got from my wife (Lefty’s idea), and was amazed at the strikes I was able to detect.  It was as if a was a boy in the 40s, fishing a wet fly!   I also sometimes use the things when fishing a dry, for I find it difficult to see my #16 caddis in fast water.  However, they do affect the drift in a negative way.  Orvis’ Quick Site orange butt leaders are also helpful for me to see the fly. Fly fishing has always been a visceral thing with me (and probably with most other folk also!).  And, it has always been a solitary venture.  You may "go" with a fishing buddy or two, but once you make your first cast, you are "alone".  If I need something to help me continue fly fishing (strike indicators), I will use it and I could shive a git what some narrow-minded bigoted people think of it.   And if you come upon me on a stream and call me "lazy" or "ignorant" or "stupid", well, you will be in a helluva lot of trouble. Dave LaCourse

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Great Post!! I had the advantage of learning an appreciation of nature & fishing from my father at an early age. Although he wasn’t a fly fisherman & we fished for bass, musky, northerns etc, he had a love of wilderness & we shared some wonderful times together. Since leaving my father’s home some thirty years ago & moving to Colorado, I’ve evolved into a fly fisherman through alot of reading, trial & error, and countless hours on the stream. The way I fish today, is very different from the fishing I did with my father, but it is firmly rooted in the appreciation of fish, water & nature I learned from him. I flyfish in my own way, that is more restrictive than George’s "one" definition. But this is FOR ME. I don’t define flyfishing for others by how I fish.  I would probably be considered to be following the "Art Form.". For me, when things are "right", the pleasure is viseral, elementary & fundamental & may or may not involve catching fish. However, flaming, belittling other people’s ideas or ways of doing things, & self rightuous preachings do not advances one’s cause. In fact the opposite is the result. Like most things, flyfishing is personnal & individual. There are no rules except for those you choose to follow. There is no one right way. Willi

Somebody finally said "it all" about our sport. Congratulations Willi, you’ve really got a handle on it. Jim

Response:

I’m neither a red neck nor a yuppie, but somewhere in between. I didn’t get started in all this by some movie. I learned long ago on a river in my youth, the hard way. Many fish outings and many lessons over those early years. Today the upstarts buy a ticket at the window and get on the ride. Instantly you have a "Fly fisherman in a can." In gulp they take it all in without ever getting the true taste. They seem to acquire and possess the knowledge of several life times and doing it at hyper speed. Has Fly Fishing become a pastime that resembles a brothel in comparison? I guess most of us want the real genuine thing regardless of the amount of effort that we put forth. For some, the need is so great for success that the real elementary lessons are never really encountered. Today you can have any thing you want as long as you can pay for it. To hell with it if you have to earn it. Another example is that you can buy your way to the summit of Mt. Everest without ever having to work or earn a place on a real team. Somewhere the "Art Form of Fly Fishing" was taken over by the Science form. What does that mean? Every element has been reduced to the science matter of increasing the catch. Why, and to what end do we need the numbers? Our children have petting Zoos, do we need them too? For a number of years I was away from fly fishing, spending my time climbing and sailing. There you had to be a participant and be real to get from one place the next. You had to perform on your own merits and deficiencies and overcome your short comings. Yes, the real art form comes from within. But the science has reduced Fly Fishing to an action vs. reaction, to an event to a counter-event and so on. All the elements have been broken down to their parts to be studied and be reproduced. Blindness comes in many forms. I choose not to be one of the ones looking over the elephant. What George speaks of is the art form and trying to maintain some semblance of the true heritage. Some places are just not mente to be fished. Sort of like peeing on hallow ground. Could the heritage of fly fishing be lost in only one generation? The old-timers while not gods do have much to offer. Do we set them aside, all for the achievements for scientific end? I would rather learn form an old-timer than take the shortcut route via the scientific method. But as time moves on, new meets old and a blending occurs. Hopefully without the distortion of where we came from and adding a price tag to it. My ten year-old son summed it up the other day, "Dad, you know this is the best Sunday school that you take me to." He sees the true art form for what it is and the meaning of being skunked. He will spend more time watching and asking questions than actually fishing. He will keep a fish and throw some back for next time. He hates truck trout and the ones scared by others. We have more to learn from them than is truly realized. But is the evil metastasis occurring before our very eyes? For me its the real thing or sometimes a little hair on the palms. The store bought knowledge you can get it at the edge of most towns in Nevada. — Doug Knight                           metalfab<atefaxinc.com Junk e-mail, solicitation, sales, products and services gladly accepted at $500.00 per mailing and billed directly to your ISP. Evil flames $1,000.00 per mailing.

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Question:

What is the best 3 -4 day Idaho raft trip?  When is the best time to go? Any suggestions on outfitters?  Do rafters have the opportunity to kayak part of the run without bringing their own boats cross country?  Any Jonathan Katz

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What is the best 3 -4 day Idaho raft trip?  When is the best time to go? Any suggestions on outfitters?  Do rafters have the opportunity to kayak part of the run without bringing their own boats cross country?  Any Jonathan Katz

Try Mackay Wilderness River Trips (800 635-5336) out of Boise.  They offer trips on the Middle and Main Fork of the Salmon.  We did the whole Middle fork 2 summers ago (6 days) in early July and had a blast.  The water was up, the food was great, great guides.  The fishing was shitty because the water was so high.  I guess you can have great fishing or great water, not both.  For a 3 day I’d recommend the upper run of the Middle Fork.  They fly you in to the put-in, you land in a meadow and get bused 10-12 miles to the river and get out at a guest ranch and fly out from there.  The scenery’s more alpine and some pretty good whitewater on that run.  The lower run (also 3 days) you fly in to the guest ranch then float to the Middle’s confuence with the Main then get bused out (several hours) to Salmon, ID then fly back to Boise from there.  I recommend the Middle over the Main because it’s a designated wilderness stretch, very pristene and clear running.  The Main is lots bigger, browner and has lots of guest ranches and jet boats, more civilization in general I’m told.  Mackay offers oar rafts, paddle rafts and inflatable kayaks.  You can ride any way you prefer.  If you do go down the upper Middle Fork I’d say take a pass on staying at that guest ranch half way down.  It’s kinda beat out and not in an especially pretty stretch.  I have friends that stayed there 3 days then floated out 3 days and were bored shitless at the ranch.  If you go and the water’s up don’t even bother getting a fishing liscense.  I saw 2 fish get caught the whole six days!  We saw a black bear, several golden eagles and bighorns.  Moose and elk are possible.  If you like more than a glass of wine or 2 of an evening to take the edge off, take your own.  A little is provided at dinner and that’s it.  Have fun! Dave

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What is the best 3 -4 day Idaho raft trip?  When is the best time to go? Any suggestions on outfitters?  Do rafters have the opportunity to kayak part of the run without bringing their own boats cross country?  Any Jonathan Katz

Hi,   Several years ago, my wife and I did a trip with Canyons, Inc.  This company is owned and run by Les Bechtel out of McCall ID. They only do Middle Fork and Main Salmon trips.  I know that they do paddle and oar raft trips, as well as support for Kayak and open boats,  and they bring along a couple of IK’s as well. Food is wonderful, guides were very nice, food was GREAT. We did a MF trip in early season (July, I think) about 6 days and the trip was great. I don’t know if they can supply boats or not.  Give them a call and find out. Canyons, Inc. (208) 634-4303 (I think). Ted Marz

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<snip   Several years ago, my wife and I did a trip with Canyons, Inc.  This company is owned and run by Les Bechtel out of McCall ID.

   It is Canyon’s, but in case you need it to find the phone # the last name is Bechdel… —     AWA, IRU      – http://www.intbuild.com —       Ketchum,  ID.       Home of Worldgroup for Mac, telnet://wgmac.intbuild.com

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I’m new to the Washington State area and would like to try my luck on some of the rivers and streams in the western half of the state.  Would any body mind dirrecting me to some decent rivers in this area, mind you, I don’t want to know your secret spot but maybe the location of some productive streams/rivers. Thank you in advance for any information you all might render.

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I am going to Cancun in mid april with my company, and I would like to know if there is any fly-fishing in the immediate area around Cancun.   If you know of anything or anyone please let me know.  Thank You.

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