Question:
Hi, I have never been in eastern Sierra area, but I am planning to make a photo trip to there soon. Shooting landscape is the major purpose of my trip. My question to you are: (1) ‘What are the top 10 places you think a landscape photographer must visit and shoot?’
Alabama Hills (very hot in summer) Mono Lake Lee Vining Creek Yosemite Hot Creek Use your eyes and you will find plenty. — http://www.fnet.net/~ellis/photo/
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Having just gotten back from there I would add Bodie state park if you like ghost towns. I would also recommend a couple of sites at mono lake 1. The south toufa (sp?) walk and tour 2. The panum crater walk and tour. of course you can’t go wrong with anything in Yosemite. Make sure you have a place to stay before you go. btb
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I have never been in eastern Sierra area, but I am planning to make a photo trip to there soon. Shooting landscape is the major purpose of my trip. My question to you are: (1) ‘What are the top 10 places you think a landscape photographer must visit and shoot?’ Alabama Hills (very hot in summer) Mono Lake Lee Vining Creek Yosemite Hot Creek Use your eyes and you will find plenty. — http://www.fnet.net/~ellis/photo/
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(2) Best guide book for photo trip to Eastern Sierra Any feedback/suggestions are appreciated. Ronald
Take a look at California’s Eastern Sierra, A Vistor’s Guide by Sue Irwin (Cachuma Press). Good photos and info and only $18. Claude
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Ronald, The Eastern Sierra is beautiful any time ofyear or day. I suggest starting at one end of the Owens Valley and work your way through it, using your imagination. You will no doubt find some spots of your own that are just as good or better than any that can be recommended. Bob Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com
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Come on over to my website and check out my sections on Mono Lake, Rock Creek, and the White Mountains. That will give you some ideas for shooting. I have some commentary there also in the different sections pertaining to those locations. http://www.californiapictures.com It is a good time now to shoot wildflowers in Mammoth Lakes. Go to Reds Meadow early, I mean early or you can’t drive your car. They will make you ride the trams after 6:30AM. They are trying to keep the traffic out. Dale Proctor * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
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Everyone has talked about Mono Lake, personally I haven’t been there, been close. That is on a list of to-go places, however, I’ve been to Bodie which is a ghost town. I think it is one of the nicest ghost towns that I’ve been to and would recommend it to others. Would need to gage your timing for lighting, etc. * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful
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Hi, Mono Lake is, without question, unique. But there are many other places of charm and beauty. On the web, start at http://www.395.com This will give you links to about every place you’ll want to visit. It all depends on your tastes of course. In the Mammoth Lakes area, there are many opportunities to shoot wild flowers. Also consider Devil’s Postpile and Rainbow falls. The lakes basin is also nice with long and short hikes of various degrees of difficulty. The Mammoth Ranger Station can be very helpful! South of Mammoth Lakes you will find Convict Lake (morning shot), Hot Creek geo-thermal area (and fly fishing), McGee creek, and Little Lakes Valley. Little Lakes Valley is a very nice walk, spectacular at times, and not too strenuous, despite the high elevation. North of Mammoth is Lundy Canyon, fantastic in the fall. The June Lake loop is another possibiliby, just south of Lee Vining. Lee Vining is, of course, where you will find Mono Lake as well as the eastern entrance to Yosemite via Tioga Pass. This is a fantastic road, an engineering feat (and perfectly safe), with grand vistas to the east. Tuolomne Meadows, just a few miles inside the park will give you a taste of granit domes. Before the park entrace is a road to the right (north) that takes you to Saddle Bag Lake. North of Lee Vining, about 5 mi before you get to Bridgeport, is the turn off to Bodie. Great pictures here! But watch the sun. The park is open from 9:00 am to 7:00 pm in the summer. You can shoot in August until about 10:30 am and then again after about 3:30. When the sun is low you get wonderful colors in the wooden buildings. When the sun is high, you can try to take some interiors through windows. Shooting anywhere in the Eastern Sierra generally requires a polarizer (but be careful; if you polarize to strongly the sky will turn almost black). Also, because of the altitude and thin atmosphere there is a lot of blue coming through. A 81A or 81B (better) will give you truer colors. One last tip. Watch the dust! A lot of it is pumice and it can scratch your glass. (Actually pumice is the foam form of the black obsidion, which is volcanic glass.) If you are interested, I have a section on Bodie on my webpage with links to other sites. (I’m in the process of re-doing the sections on Sierra Wild Flowers and the Eastern Sierra.) http://toms_place_2.tripod.com Enjoy your trip! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I have never been in eastern Sierra area, but I am planning to make a photo trip to there soon. Shooting landscape is the major purpose of my trip. My question to you are: (1) ‘What are the top 10 places you think a landscape photographer must visit and shoot?’ (2) Best guide book for photo trip to Eastern Sierra Any feedback/suggestions are appreciated. Ronald
Response:
Hi, I have never been in eastern Sierra area, but I am planning to make a photo trip to there soon. Shooting landscape is the major purpose of my trip. My question to you are: (1) ‘What are the top 10 places you think a landscape photographer must visit and shoot?’ (2) Best guide book for photo trip to Eastern Sierra Any feedback/suggestions are appreciated. Ronald
shourong.shu.vcf
< 1K Download
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Mono LAke. If it is no #1 then it is #2 or 3. Shoot at sunrise. GO th day before to scope out the area then come back for sunrise. With a little luch you will have clouds inte western sky andit will explode with color. Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com
Response:
Hi, I have never been in eastern Sierra area, but I am planning to make a photo trip to there soon. Shooting landscape is the major purpose of my trip. My question to you are: (1) ‘What are the top 10 places you think a landscape photographer must visit and shoot?’
Besides putting Mono Lake at the top of the list, here are some ideas in no particular order: – Mono Lake See my "East of the Sierra" web gallery for some images from Mono Lake (http://www.designsinlight.com/gallery.htm) – Alambama Hills Near Lone Pine and Mt. Whitney, and where many westerns were shot. – White & Inyo Mountains – Bristlecone Pine forest Some of the oldest living things in the world (4000+ years) and very cool looking Some info: http://www.sonic.net/bristlecone/WhiteMts.html – Bodie ghost town – June Lake One meteorlogical feature to keep an eye out for is lenticular clouds. They form where there is a strong, steady wind blowing over mountains, in places like Owens Valley east of the Sierra Nevada. They can make for some spectacular skies, especially at sunrise or sunset. Have fun! It’s a beautiful part of the world. gene — Gene Anderson http://www.designsinlight.com/
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Question:
Kudo’s Stan…. The site looks great. –Walt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Site is fixed. There was a single character error in the last line. *** (for HTML weenies only) I had a ‘?’ instead of a ” closing the table tag. Apparently got added late yesterday as I was doing last minute editing and IE doesn’t care about closing the table, but Netscape pukes on it. ***end of weenie section Thanks for the feedback guys. Stan, I don’t see any links…. I’m using netscape 4.72. Works fine with IE 5.5. — Charlie… I can see it in IE, but not Netscape also. Kevin
– Ezflyfish.com: http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://www.amazon.com/shops/blueridgebooks
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, it seems that the page is "picky" about browsers and/or Java(Script), or ???. I don’t get anything but the .jpg of Paul’s tying table and the text block below – no links, etc.. FWIW, why must such pages have "tricks" that require specific browsers, etc. With commercial sites, IMO, it’s insane, business-wise, but with "shared info" sites, it’s annoying and possibly/probably restricts those who can see it, which seems to be in direct conflict with the point of the site. It doesn’t use any tricks at all. No JavaScript, no nonsense. The site *is* database driven so we can set up a site with 40 flies quickly – one template for each of three different page styles, with all details (fly info, tyer’s name, links to the pictures) filled from database lookups. The script runs on the server and dishes out clean simple HTML that should run on any browser. Can you tell me if you see an error message below the line under the intro text? Does it say something like ‘too many database connections’ or something similar? If so, try again later – the free server this is on has just recently updated it’s database server and there have been problems all week. Sorry, but that’s what we get for free. I’m hoping to move this to a better server very soon. –Stan
It’s now running fine, thanks, and it looks great – a "well done!" to both you and Paul for your efforts, and to the tyers for a great bunch of flies. To the tyers: all look great and a job well done. If Stan is so disposed, maybe the tiers could send names and recipes for those missing? I noticed some had recipes and some didn’t, and I’d bet I’m not the only one who would like to see all the recipes, esp. on the personal patterns. TC, R
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Stan, thank you Wim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Congratulations to both of you, a really good job. Stan, I recognized the spelling of my name. Could you please do me a favour and change Muschok to Mischok? Thanks Wim Paul Goodwin has shot some nice pics of flies from the PNW Swap and I did a lot of reframing and sharpening on his old FS2000 pics. The site is up and running and ready for the FS2001 pictures as soon as Frank sends the flies out next week. See the ROFF Swap site at www.roff.f2s.com Comments are welcome. –Stan
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Paul Goodwin has shot some nice pics of flies from the PNW Swap and I did a lot of reframing and sharpening on his old FS2000 pics. The site is up and running and ready for the FS2001 pictures as soon as Frank sends the flies out next week.
——- The photographs and presentations are wonderful! How did you ever get those tiny flies to photography so clear? Thanks to Paul and Stan for all their hard work on our behalf… — Padishar Creel "Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft…and the only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor." – Wernher von Braun
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Another great page for information on a great place for fly fishing. Not to mention it’s the home of the 50 pound stripper. Lots of great pics. http://www.geocities.com/virginiasbestkeptsecret/
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Congratulations to both of you, a really good job. Stan, I recognized the spelling of my name. Could you please do me a favour and change Muschok to Mischok? Thanks Wim Paul Goodwin has shot some nice pics of flies from the PNW Swap and I did a lot of reframing and sharpening on his old FS2000 pics. The site is up and running and ready for the FS2001 pictures as soon as Frank sends the flies out next week. See the ROFF Swap site at www.roff.f2s.com Comments are welcome. –Stan
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Not to mention it’s the home of the 50 pound stripper.
Virginia’s best kept secret is a 50 pound stripper? Did Vern move out from Vegas and start a new act, or something? 
– sid banishing the thought
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You got’em clod Sid. Sure wish I had caught that one! Opie –the porcupine kid–
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not to mention it’s the home of the 50 pound stripper. Virginia’s best kept secret is a 50 pound stripper? Did Vern move out from Vegas and start a new act, or something? – sid banishing the thought
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Paul Goodwin has shot some nice pics of flies from the PNW Swap and I did a lot of reframing and sharpening on his old FS2000 pics. The site is up and running and ready for the FS2001 pictures as soon as Frank sends the flies out next week. See the ROFF Swap site at www.roff.f2s.com Comments are welcome. –Stan
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….Comments are welcome.
The bug sitting on the Rube Goldberg solar system model thingy in the foreground is obviously in robust good health, as is made evident by it’s alert posture. Those in the background have evidently succumbed to ethanol fumes. I think there is a lesson here for all of us. Wolfgang
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Paul Goodwin has shot some nice pics of flies from the PNW Swap and I did a lot of reframing and sharpening on his old FS2000 pics. The site is up and running and ready for the FS2001 pictures as soon as Frank sends the flies out next week. See the ROFF Swap site at www.roff.f2s.com Comments are welcome. –Stan
Well, it seems that the page is "picky" about browsers and/or Java(Script), or ???. I don’t get anything but the .jpg of Paul’s tying table and the text block below – no links, etc.. FWIW, why must such pages have "tricks" that require specific browsers, etc. With commercial sites, IMO, it’s insane, business-wise, but with "shared info" sites, it’s annoying and possibly/probably restricts those who can see it, which seems to be in direct conflict with the point of the site. TC R
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Could be.But that wine glass looks like my shirt one evening when the mayflies were hatching. — Don Thompson Another of the Thompson Boys
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Paul Goodwin has shot some nice pics of flies from the PNW Swap and I did a lot of reframing and sharpening on his old FS2000 pics. The site is up and running and ready for the FS2001 pictures as soon as Frank sends the flies out next week. See the ROFF Swap site at www.roff.f2s.com Comments are welcome. –Stan Well, it seems that the page is "picky" about browsers and/or Java(Script), or ???. I don’t get anything but the .jpg of Paul’s tying table and the text block below – no links, etc.. FWIW, why must such pages have "tricks" that require specific browsers, etc. With commercial sites, IMO, it’s insane, business-wise, but with "shared info" sites, it’s annoying and possibly/probably restricts those who can see it, which seems to be in direct conflict with the point of the site. TC R
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Mayflies that look like black ghosts???
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could be.But that wine glass looks like my shirt one evening when the mayflies were hatching. — Don Thompson Another of the Thompson Boys Paul Goodwin has shot some nice pics of flies from the PNW Swap and I did a lot of reframing and sharpening on his old FS2000 pics. The site is up and running and ready for the FS2001 pictures as soon as Frank sends the flies out next week. See the ROFF Swap site at www.roff.f2s.com Comments are welcome. –Stan Well, it seems that the page is "picky" about browsers and/or Java(Script), or ???. I don’t get anything but the .jpg of Paul’s tying table and the text block below – no links, etc.. FWIW, why must such pages have "tricks" that require specific browsers, etc. With commercial sites, IMO, it’s insane, business-wise, but with "shared info" sites, it’s annoying and possibly/probably restricts those who can see it, which seems to be in direct conflict with the point of the site. TC R
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Nope. The density of the "critters" hehe My shirt,cap,jeans,everything was a near solid mass of Mayflies. — Don Thompson Another of the Thompson Boys
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mayflies that look like black ghosts??? Could be.But that wine glass looks like my shirt one evening when the mayflies were hatching. — Don Thompson Another of the Thompson Boys
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Well, it seems that the page is "picky" about browsers and/or Java(Script), or ???. I don’t get anything but the .jpg of Paul’s tying table and the text block below – no links, etc.. FWIW, why must such pages have "tricks" that require specific browsers, etc. With commercial sites, IMO, it’s insane, business-wise, but with "shared info" sites, it’s annoying and possibly/probably restricts those who can see it, which seems to be in direct conflict with the point of the site.
It doesn’t use any tricks at all. No JavaScript, no nonsense. The site *is* database driven so we can set up a site with 40 flies quickly – one template for each of three different page styles, with all details (fly info, tyer’s name, links to the pictures) filled from database lookups. The script runs on the server and dishes out clean simple HTML that should run on any browser. Can you tell me if you see an error message below the line under the intro text? Does it say something like ‘too many database connections’ or something similar? If so, try again later – the free server this is on has just recently updated it’s database server and there have been problems all week. Sorry, but that’s what we get for free. I’m hoping to move this to a better server very soon. –Stan
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The last line of text was: "This page was designed and programmed (using PHP and MySQL) by Stan Gula. Please post any comments on ROFF." This was followed by a plane line. There seemed to be no way to get to any other pages. Willi
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Paul Goodwin has shot some nice pics of flies from the PNW Swap and I did a lot of reframing and sharpening on his old FS2000 pics. The site is up and running and ready for the FS2001 pictures as soon as Frank sends the flies out next week. See the ROFF Swap site at www.roff.f2s.com Comments are welcome. –Stan
Stan, I don’t see any links…. I’m using netscape 4.72. –Walt — Ezflyfish.com: http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://www.amazon.com/shops/blueridgebooks
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Paul Goodwin has shot some nice pics of flies from the PNW Swap and I did a lot of reframing and sharpening on his old FS2000 pics. The site is up and running and ready for the FS2001 pictures as soon as Frank sends the flies out next week. See the ROFF Swap site at www.roff.f2s.com Comments are welcome. –Stan Stan, I don’t see any links…. I’m using netscape 4.72.
Works fine with IE 5.5. — Charlie…
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Stan, I don’t see any links…. I’m using netscape 4.72. Works fine with IE 5.5. — Charlie…
I can see it in IE, but not Netscape also. Kevin
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I have a simple three row table under that line and I’m checking it out in Netscape. Thanks for the feedback everybody.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stan, I don’t see any links…. I’m using netscape 4.72. Works fine with IE 5.5. — Charlie… I can see it in IE, but not Netscape also. Kevin
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Site is fixed. There was a single character error in the last line. *** (for HTML weenies only) I had a ‘?’ instead of a ” closing the table tag. Apparently got added late yesterday as I was doing last minute editing and IE doesn’t care about closing the table, but Netscape pukes on it. ***end of weenie section Thanks for the feedback guys.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stan, I don’t see any links…. I’m using netscape 4.72. Works fine with IE 5.5. — Charlie… I can see it in IE, but not Netscape also. Kevin
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Site is fixed.
Indeed it is. It looks great. Thanks, Kevin
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Good job, Stan. Very nice site. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"
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Congratulations to both of you, a really good job. Stan, I recognized the spelling of my name. Could you please do me a favour and change Muschok to Mischok? Thanks Wim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Paul Goodwin has shot some nice pics of flies from the PNW Swap and I did a lot of reframing and sharpening on his old FS2000 pics. The site is up and running and ready for the FS2001 pictures as soon as Frank sends the flies out next week. See the ROFF Swap site at www.roff.f2s.com Comments are welcome. –Stan
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That’s what makes Netscape the best platform for testing pages.. Never mind Stan, great job well done. Cheers, Herman Site is fixed. There was a single character error in the last line. *** (for HTML weenies only) I had a ‘?’ instead of a ” closing the table tag. Apparently got added late yesterday as I was doing last minute editing and IE doesn’t care about closing the table, but Netscape pukes on it. ***end of weenie section Thanks for the feedback guys.
– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher
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Paul Goodwin has shot some nice pics of flies from the PNW Swap and I did a lot of reframing and sharpening on his old FS2000 pics. The site is up and running and ready for the FS2001 pictures as soon as Frank sends the flies out next week. See the ROFF Swap site at www.roff.f2s.com Comments are welcome. –Stan
Nice job Stan! Thanks and my appreciation to both you and Paul. Frank (up to my arse in packages) Church
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Visit our Web Site at http://www.angelfire.com/bc2/jerifly Merry Christmas jeri
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The Best Fly Swap you will ever Join Visit our Web Site at http://www.angelfire.com/bc2/jerifly Merry Christmas jeri
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Question:
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My turn guys, Mike, no problem with your views. The major thing is that these two are on the air as CANADIAN SPORTFISHING. You want a couple of law breakers, convicted, going on the air as AMERICAN SPORTFISHING? You, me, Jeff, joe blow down the street make a mistake it’s one thing. A professional representing his/her country makes a mistake in his professional area that’s a little different. We all worry about the loss of jobs to the innocent, that’s the biggest heartbreak of the whole thing. Unfortunately this is part of putting your eggs in the wrong basket. Life does go on. For this to happen saddens me as I am sure it does the other members of the group behind getting Canadian Sportfishing off the air and the magazine off the shelves. I know a lot of magazine folks, if one of these people that are in fact innocent and have the proper and necessary credentials writes me that they lost a job over this, I for one will help them in any way I can. Mark, Rick, Steve, Dan, expect a call. Concerned Canadian — <*))))< Paul Phillips Director of Operations Fintastic Fish Mounts http://www.fintastic.com/
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Hi Paul, I was not aware of the title of the show. I am bound to agree that this makes the whole thing even more unfortunate. By the way I am British and live in Germany, so the likelihood of my ever seeing one of these shows is fairly remote. Which, considering all I have heard about some of them, is not such a catastrophe as I otherwise might have assumed. Notwithstanding my views, I can understand people getting very upset about such things, I would ( and have !) too given similar circumstances. This was one reason I felt moved to comment in the first place. I hope the affair is settled to everyones satisfaction as soon as possible. Thanks again for the info. Tight lines ! Mike Connor
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To add my 2 cents worth to this thread… I got a call from a reliable source mentioning that these guys are looking for writers to contribute articles to their magazine. While some may take up the offer, my immediate response was"Are you crazy? No reputable writer wants their name associated with illegal activities in any way." Thus, I may have turned down revenue in the short run, but I maintained my personal and professional standards and I’ll chance the lost revenue. Bill Luscombe Freelance Outdoor Writer – British Columbia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Paul, I was not aware of the title of the show. I am bound to agree that this makes the whole thing even more unfortunate. By the way I am British and live in Germany, so the likelihood of my ever seeing one of these shows is fairly remote. Which, considering all I have heard about some of them, is not such a catastrophe as I otherwise might have assumed. Notwithstanding my views, I can understand people getting very upset about such things, I would ( and have !) too given similar circumstances. This was one reason I felt moved to comment in the first place. I hope the affair is settled to everyones satisfaction as soon as possible. Thanks again for the info. Tight lines ! Mike Connor
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To add my 2 cents worth to this thread… I got a call from a reliable source mentioning that these guys are looking for writers to contribute articles to their magazine. While some may take up the offer, my immediate response was"Are you crazy? No reputable writer wants their name associated with illegal activities in any way." Thus, I may have turned down revenue in the short run, but I maintained my personal and professional standards and I’ll chance the lost revenue. Bill Luscombe Freelance Outdoor Writer – British Columbia
Well Done Bill. This is the response that will infuriate sponsors, and eventually lead to the removal of these donkeys. You have taken the high road and I am sure that avid anglers will be more inclined to read your material as a result.
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Geez, Mike! If I’d known that we were *both* longwinded, I may not have touched this post.<grin I know you’ve said you would rather not say more about this. I’ll try not to drag you back in by asking questions. And. I’ll try to be brief. I said I’ll try.<grin My problem here is that I am worried that other people not directly involved in this obviously illegal fiasco may be damaged by direct e-mailing to sponsors. Sponsors tend to react slowly but draconically when their public image is damaged, ( their first tactic is to wait and hope the whole smell goes away ), as this is diametrically opposed to what they are trying to achieve.
This thing actually started up back around April or so. I think they did just as you have stated and it sort of worked. The smell never really left entirely. I think folks felt the way we do when we wake up after election night to find the "other guy" won: Well, I did what I could. But they may have been given a chance to cast their ballot in an open atmosphere this time. Last time, the network was the only one to see the tally. Furthermore, unsolicited e-mail of this nature can cause problems in its own right, is in many places illegal, and is in my opinion a form of blackmail with which I do not agree.
All of these e-mail addresses were obtained from the companies involved. They aren’t going to individuals. This is one of their normal methods of receiving feedback. Getting the show taken off the air may cause a lot of innocent people problems, such as loss of jobs etc,…
I admit that this does bother me. These two will go down. But, not because they are innocent of any wrong doing and somehow a handfull of us decided to destroy them for no reason. I have been unable to find any support whatsoever anywhere in Canada. This has all been a sham from the getgo. The network sites overwhelming viewer support as one of the main criteria for keeping the show. I have asked repeatedly to have the response file made public. I already know what’s in it. The same response I’m getting on the street, from industry pros and here on the Internet. selective enough anyway . I would have preferred a petition or something similar to the Fisheries Board ( MNR ? ) or whatever the Canadian equivalent is, which if they are guilty, ought to result in these guys losing their licences, this would effectively prevent them doing anything else like this, would only hit the perpetrators, and not a lot of innocent bystanders.
Actually the result would be the same. The magazine and the show would fold if the hosts didn’t have licenses. However, we have no such recourse anyway. I wish we did, Mike. It looks like they are about to topple anyway. I’ve had one *unconfirmed* report from British Columbia that one distributor has pulled their magazine off the shelf. I hear "rumours" that they have slipped from fighting for top spot to as low as possibly fifth in the ratings expected out very soon. Couple this with a renewed letter writing campaign to the sponsors and it doesn’t bode well for the boys. indeed. Lawyers are difficult people to mess with, as they have ways and means of making you regret voicing your opinion or personal interpretation of the facts , which are particularly unpleasant, and in no relation whatever to whether you are right or wrong.
Funny you should say that, Mike. Just yesterday, I was going over my extensive writings on the subject. As near as I can tell, I’m safe. I always try to be careful. Although there may have been an occassion or two when you wouldn’t have been very proud of me. For the most part, I try to keep my cool. I believe that most everyone has done the same as best they could. You may be right, unfortunately the only information I have has been gleaned from the posts I have read on the subject, which I assume is the case for most other people ( apart of course from the Canadians who have been following the case in the press etc., and are probably better informed )
I doubt that, Mike. You probably have more correct info in your posession than the average Canuck. the medium to actually punish people directly for actions taken outside this medium. I think the internet is one of the last bastions of freedom, and I do not think it is a good idea to use it in this way. It just goes against the grain. And smacks of Kangaroo court to me.
We had two occasions when H&I agreed to take us on. First, they were to newsgroups. Fair enough. We made arrangements to move it over to a Web based discussion board out of the U of Toronto. At the elenvth hour, they backed out. Then they said they would answer our e-mail instead. That was about a week and a half ago. We’re still waiting for at least one of the dozens of questions to be answered. I know what your concern is and I share it. We tried for weeks to get them to face us. We would have preferred it if they would stand up and face us like men. So, if the point of view is one sided, it’s their choice. We can’t force them to participate. However, they continue to actively use the mainstream media to get their version of events to a very wide audience. This is not an attack. It’s a counter-attack. The point here is that they were caught, and punished. The punishment might not be everybodys idea of justice, but it is obviously according to the law of a democratic country and has apparently been carried out. It is not my place I feel to pronounce judgement on the actions of courts or other legal entities without at least knowing far more than I do about the circumstances etc. And even then I only really have the right to voice an opinion on the matter, and not implement my own way of futher punishing the guilty parties. I am against mob rule in any form.
You know, Mike. I agree with a lot of what you say in this entire post. But, I don’t see this from the same perspective. I don’t think we are attempting to increase the penalties for the crimes. This is about a *big* money business trying to hold onto it’s cash cow. We are the consumers of the show. Or, we used to be. They want to sell us hats, t-shirts, coffee mugs, magazines and seminars. This doesn’t even include what the sponsors want to sell us. If some half hour sitcom did something totally outrageous, people would organize a boycott and be writing the Network. I don’t see this campaign any differently. Here again, you may be right, that the MNR was overly generous toward these people. I am unable to comment really , as I would at least have to know how the MNR punishes other people in similar circumstances, before even being able to form an opinion.
In dollar terms they paid the max. It was quite an eye opener for me to see how incredibly low that max is. I was expecting it to be into the thousands for each. Only $800.00 per. These guys are loaded. It’s a little like handing out a thousand dollar fine to some mega pro athlete. It might have hurt you and I. But, it wouldn’t really phase these lads. But, at least they got the max. As they should. apart from the campaigning mentioned above. That these guys try to bluster their way out of the affair with silly and illogical excuses or even downright lies and deceit is simply human nature, and is quite widespread. It demonstrates a lamentable lack of character, but is not illegal as far as I know.
Of course one need not break the law to incur the wrath of the viewing public. No one wants to be mislead or played for an imbecile. …. In fact more negative publicity is likely to arise when a great big stink about this is made forcing the general public to take notice. This may indeed sway public opinion against anglers generally, and is I assume the very thing most concerned anglers would like to avoid.
I guess that will depend on how the press chooses to play this…which 30 second sound bite becomes the rage on the six o’clock news. 
For the reasons already outlined above I am against using the internet in this way. That is why we have laws.
So then, can we agree to disagree? Oops! I said I wouldn’t ask questions. I’ll accept no reply as a Yes.<grin I would wish however that disagreements addressing my published or stated opinions be factual and sensible, ( like the post from Jeff for instance ) and not drift off into insulting or silly
You are on my Xmas list, Mike.<smile I will follow developments carefully on this case, as I really am very interested in seeing how it progresses and the results if any. ….
Actually, there have been a couple of intersting little things happen behind the scenes this week. It’s a little premature to be talking about it yet. This Internet thing may be more effective than I’d hoped. Coupled of course with widespread disdain amongst amateurs and industry people alike. Thanks, Mike. I don’t share all your views on this topic. But, I understand them. later, Jeff — Let’s Talk Fish! Big Fish! New Canadian Fishing Newsgroup Is Here! Jeff Goddard, Ottawa, Ont. Canada
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However, I think it would be a good idea if you told us who you are and gave us an E-mail address with your name etc so that we might consider carefully before carrying out your request to stir up this amount of trouble for Regular readers of this board would have no difficulty recognizing the authour from his return address. I believe Paul answered to this earlier. He thought it was a good idea at the time. Now, I believe he sees your point, Mike.
Hi Jeff, thanks for the interesting and informative post. I did not recognise Paul from his address, and I am somewhat wary of information or appeals etc when I do not know the source. Paul very kindly replied immediately to my first post per e-mail with his address etc. Direct e-mails to sponsors seems a bit drastic, and might damage far more than than just a couple of idiots who have broken the law… Could you expand on this, Mike? I think I understand you but just to be sure.
My problem here is that I am worried that other people not directly involved in this obviously illegal fiasco may be damaged by direct e-mailing to sponsors. Sponsors tend to react slowly but draconically when their public image is damaged, ( their first tactic is to wait and hope the whole smell goes away ), as this is diametrically opposed to what they are trying to achieve. Furthermore, unsolicited e-mail of this nature can cause problems in its own right, is in many places illegal, and is in my opinion a form of blackmail with which I do not agree. As I understand it according to the information I have been given these two hosts were the guilty parties. Getting the show taken off the air may cause a lot of innocent people problems, such as loss of jobs etc, and I think the suggested method is not selective enough anyway . I would have preferred a petition or something similar to the Fisheries Board ( MNR ? ) or whatever the Canadian equivalent is, which if they are guilty, ought to result in these guys losing their licences, this would effectively prevent them doing anything else like this, would only hit the perpetrators, and not a lot of innocent bystanders. Private and direct e-mails to sponsors or other interested parties might also result in libel suits or similar for those people who do it, depending of course on the content, which would have to be very carefully worded indeed. Lawyers are difficult people to mess with, as they have ways and means of making you regret voicing your opinion or personal interpretation of the facts , which are particularly unpleasant, and in no relation whatever to whether you are right or wrong. … and I would assume that many people know of their offences in consequence,… I believe that what most people know about this issue has all come from the same source. The bad guys! Somehow, their account seems a little biased to me.
You may be right, unfortunately the only information I have has been gleaned from the posts I have read on the subject, which I assume is the case for most other people ( apart of course from the Canadians who have been following the case in the press etc., and are probably better informed ) I am not suggesting that anybody has made any attempts to mislead or anything, but I think there is a considerable difference between discussing the relative merits of fly rods, or flies or whatever, which may result in somebody getting flamed, and using the medium to actually punish people directly for actions taken outside this medium. I think the internet is one of the last bastions of freedom, and I do not think it is a good idea to use it in this way. It just goes against the grain. And smacks of Kangaroo court to me. they did may not be very nice, but you arent really naive enough to believe that nobody else on these shows and in other media do it are you ? They just havent been caught at it yet. And, if and when they are, they can expect the same treatment. This may serve as a warning to others to clean up their acts as well. They ignore it at their own peril.
The point here is that they were caught, and punished. The punishment might not be everybodys idea of justice, but it is obviously according to the law of a democratic country and has apparently been carried out. It is not my place I feel to pronounce judgement on the actions of courts or other legal entities without at least knowing far more than I do about the circumstances etc. And even then I only really have the right to voice an opinion on the matter, and not implement my own way of futher punishing the guilty parties. I am against mob rule in any form. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – a fairly minor thing compared with all the other nastiness going on in the world and does not warrant the type of sanctions you are proposing, where I live being caught doing this sort of thing would have automatically resulted in a loss of fishing licence for life, Well sure. It’s not Bosnia. That in itself is hardly reason to look the other way, Mike. Is there some magic threshold of criminal acts that we should be using? We are conservationists as well as anglers. What they did was not simply "not very nice" to us. Should we all be up in arms about poverty, famine and God knows what? Of course we should. Should we ignore all else? Of course not. We are obviously more offended by their actions than you are. That’s OK too. We all pick our battles. This is ours for the moment.
A criminal act is a criminal act, and should be punished as such, however here we are talking about a fairly minor criminal act which has engendered a lot of emotions and public feeling. It is wrong in my opinion to allow punishments etc to be affected in this way by force of public opinion. As far as I am aware a court in Canada ( and most other free countries ) is obliged to find its conclusions and sentences without fear or favour. This is not the case with a large group of anglers on the internet who may have the power to hand out further punishment irrespective of the consequences, and with no control. Also probably biased because of the fact that most are sensible caring anglers who find such behaviour atrocious, and in consequence want to see heavier punishments handed out. ( Campaigning for a correct punishment is something else again, if the MNR can be persuaded to use their powers correctly then this is OK in my opinion ). I am not suggesting that anybody look the other way , and I do not in any way condone acts of this nature. When however people start comparing this sort of thing with rapists, as opposed to serial rapists and other obvious silliness then I think the whole sense of proportion has gone overboard, and that in itself is a good reason for taking no further action, as the anger and sense of injustice expressed here is in no relation to the original crime, and would inevitably result in a far greater punishment than would be fair. The MNR(Ministry of Natural Resources) has more power than the police in some instances. They can seize your truck, boat and equipment on the spot for some of these offences. I believe the MNR was overly generous to these two by allowing them to keep their licences. I’m not at all sure they would have treated me that way. So what do these two do? They try to blame the MNR for not writing clear rules. Page 4 – top of the page. It’s right there. Clear enough to me. I know you don’t have a copy, Mike. But, trust me. It’s there.
Here again, you may be right, that the MNR was overly generous toward these people. I am unable to comment really , as I would at least have to know how the MNR punishes other people in similar circumstances, before even being able to form an opinion. I will admit that this sort of thing is often the case with celebrities or very rich people, they can usually buy or barter a better deal than joe public generally, either with money or their fame. This is of course wrong, but I dont see what I or anybody else can do about it, apart from the campaigning mentioned above. That these guys try to bluster their way out of the affair with silly and illogical excuses or even downright lies and deceit is simply human nature, and is quite widespread. It demonstrates a lamentable lack of character, but is not illegal as far as I know. doubt that many anglers will tar all Canadians with the same brush as you are suggesting, and the general public probably doesnt care much what anglers do, and would not watch an angling show anyway. An old buddy of mine was in town last night. We met for a pint. He said something that may apply here. He is a long distance truck driver. He was commenting on how truck drivers are no longer respected by the public. Well, he used stronger language. <grin Anyway, when I was growing up, everyone thought highly of these guys. We will not let anyone cast a shadow over the many good, caring Canadian anglers. Least of all, these two.
I appreciate your feelings and sentiments here fully. From what I have heard ( although a lot of it was purely personal insults towards these guys and not sensible discussion, so is difficult to evaluate ) these guys were a bit of a sad joke as fishermen and hosts anyway. So I find it unlikely that other sensible fishermen will take much notice of them, and I do not for one second believe that other fishermen wherever they may be will tar other Canadians with the same brush. The general non angling public is unlikely to be much affected as they wont watch such shows anyway. In fact more negative publicity is likely to arise when a great big stink about this is made forcing the general public to take notice. This may indeed sway public opinion against anglers generally, and is I assume the very thing most concerned anglers would like to avoid. Similar cases have happened here, … read more »
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All/many of the details, including their apologies, are presented in Canadian Sportfishing, Summer 1998 issue, page 6 …
Since I am one of the most active in this campaign, I will just throw in a couple of points. I have written volumes on this issue in both can.rec.fishing and on several discussion boards. The first point I would like to address is the showbiz aspect of TV fishing shows. Granted these two are not the first to "cheat" in terms of faking their show. That is not what I’m angry about. I am angry about their falgrant violations which they claim to accept responsibility for. They then proceed to come up with every excuse in the book about why they really aren’t to blame. If you’d seen these two in action, you would have exploded by now. They catch ten "out of season" Bass right off the spawning beds using jig and leech or spinner baits. Or so I am told by someone who has seen the video footage. Then they try to sell this as an "accidental" catch while attempting to catch early season Lake Trout. I called the Ministry. There are *no* Trout in the lake. Starting to get the idea? Second. They removed an "out of Season" Laker from another angler’s rod and rehooked it on their own. This they justify by saying they didn’t know it was illegal. No one else in this country didn’t know. When that excuse flounders, they move on to tell us it was for educational reasons. I needn’t insult the readers of this group by telling them what the appropriate "educational" message *should* have been. So, I guess what really gets to me is how they have attempted to hoodwink us with a media blitz designed to hide the truth and make themselves appear as innocent while at the same time, telling us how humbled they are and how they could have put up a good defense to all the charges. They have claim to have volunteered to accept criminal records because they say: "we could do more good to the sportfishing industry by not fighting these charges". Yeah! That must be it. Of course, by not allowing the prosecution to present it’s video taped evidence, they have removed it from the Access to Information Act. Now they can go about pretending that the MNR (Ministry of Natuaral Resources) evidence only shows them snagging Whitefish just outside the mouth. This is *not* what the MNR says. Gee. I wonder who’s telling the truth here? I could write a book on this. Probably have if I pulled it all together. I’ve just highlighted one or two points here. I just want to make it clear that we are not PO’d at these two cretins for their fake fishing. We are PO’d because they profess to be the founding fathers of conservation in Canadian fishing while actually being among the worst offenders of that movement. It’s all about big money folks. Principals are not something either of them are familiar with. And this is one of my shortest writings on this subject. <grin Jeff PS There were originally 9 charges. A spokesman for the MNR stated:"We had a guilty plea to the main charges, so the other ones went by the wayside. It was an agreed presentation to the court," Can you say plea bargain? One of their favourite things to say is: "We’ve come clean". Oh really? Gentlemen & Ladies, We here in Canada have a major problem. We have a fishing show in which the two hosts have been convicted of violating the fishing regulations and faking film footage shown for the program. They evidently do not believe anyone cares that they violated the law. This is in turn giving Canadian
– Let’s Talk Fish! Big Fish! New Canadian Fishing Newsgroup Is Here! Jeff Goddard, Ottawa, Ont. Canada
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -All/many of the details, including their apologies, are presented in Canadian Sportfishing, Summer 1998 issue, page 6 … PS There were originally 9 charges. A spokesman for the MNR stated:"We had a guilty plea to the main charges, so the other ones went by the wayside. It was an agreed presentation to the court," Can you say plea bargain? One of their favourite things to say is: "We’ve come clean". Oh really? Gentlemen & Ladies, We here in Canada have a major problem. We have a fishing show in which the two hosts have been convicted of violating the fishing regulations and faking film footage shown for the program. They evidently do not believe anyone cares that they violated the law. This is in turn giving Canadian — Let’s Talk Fish! Big Fish! New Canadian Fishing Newsgroup Is Here! Jeff Goddard, Ottawa, Ont. Canada
Are we talking about Heneri and Italo Lamebrain? dave
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Since I am one of the most active in this campaign, I will just throw in a couple of points. I have written volumes on this issue in both can.rec.fishing and on several discussion boards. The first point I would like to address is the showbiz aspect of TV fishing shows. Granted these two are not the first to "cheat" in terms of faking their show. That is not what I’m angry about. I am angry about their falgrant violations which they claim to accept responsibility for. They then proceed to come up with every excuse in the book about why they really aren’t to blame. If you’d seen these two in action, you would have exploded by now. They catch ten "out of season" Bass right off the spawning beds using jig and leech or spinner baits. Or so I am told by someone who has seen the video footage. Then they try to sell this as an "accidental" catch while attempting to catch early season Lake Trout. I called the Ministry. There are *no* Trout in the lake. Starting to get the idea? Second. They removed an "out of Season" Laker from another angler’s rod and rehooked it on their own. This they justify by saying they didn’t know it was illegal. No one else in this country didn’t know. When that excuse flounders, they move on to tell us it was for educational reasons. I needn’t insult the readers of this group by telling them what the appropriate "educational" message *should* have been. So, I guess what really gets to me is how they have attempted to hoodwink us with a media blitz designed to hide the truth and make themselves appear as innocent while at the same time, telling us how humbled they are and how they could have put up a good defense to all the charges. They have claim to have volunteered to accept criminal records because they say: "we could do more good to the sportfishing industry by not fighting these charges". Yeah! That must be it. Of course, by not allowing the prosecution to present it’s video taped evidence, they have removed it from the Access to Information Act. Now they can go about pretending that the MNR (Ministry of Natuaral Resources) evidence only shows them snagging Whitefish just outside the mouth. This is *not* what the MNR says. Gee. I wonder who’s telling the truth here? I could write a book on this. Probably have if I pulled it all together. I’ve just highlighted one or two points here. I just want to make it clear that we are not PO’d at these two cretins for their fake fishing. We are PO’d because they profess to be the founding fathers of conservation in Canadian fishing while actually being among the worst offenders of that movement. It’s all about big money folks. Principals are not something either of them are familiar with. And this is one of my shortest writings on this subject. <grin Jeff PS There were originally 9 charges. A spokesman for the MNR stated:"We had a guilty plea to the main charges, so the other ones went by the wayside. It was an agreed presentation to the court," Can you say plea bargain? One of their favourite things to say is: "We’ve come clean". Oh really? Gentlemen & Ladies, We here in Canada have a major problem. We have a fishing show in which the two hosts have been convicted of violating the fishing regulations and faking film footage shown for the program. They evidently do not believe anyone cares that they violated the law. This is in turn giving Canadian
– Let’s Talk Fish! Big Fish! New Canadian Fishing Newsgroup Is Here! Jeff Goddard, Ottawa, Ont. Canada
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However, I think it would be a good idea if you told us who you are and gave us an E-mail address with your name etc so that we might consider carefully before carrying out your request to stir up this amount of trouble for
Regular readers of this board would have no difficulty recognizing the authour from his return address. I believe Paul answered to this earlier. He thought it was a good idea at the time. Now, I believe he sees your point, Mike. Direct e-mails to sponsors seems a bit drastic, and might damage far more than than just a couple of idiots who have broken the law…
Could you expand on this, Mike? I think I understand you but just to be sure. … and I would assume that many people know of their offences in consequence,…
I believe that what most people know about this issue has all come from the same source. The bad guys! Somehow, their account seems a little biased to me. they did may not be very nice, but you arent really naive enough to believe that nobody else on these shows and in other media do it are you ? They just havent been caught at it yet.
And, if and when they are, they can expect the same treatment. This may serve as a warning to others to clean up their acts as well. They ignore it at their own peril. a fairly minor thing compared with all the other nastiness going on in the world and does not warrant the type of sanctions you are proposing, where I live being caught doing this sort of thing would have automatically resulted in a loss of fishing licence for life,
Well sure. It’s not Bosnia. That in itself is hardly reason to look the other way, Mike. Is there some magic threshold of criminal acts that we should be using? We are conservationists as well as anglers. What they did was not simply "not very nice" to us. Should we all be up in arms about poverty, famine and God knows what? Of course we should. Should we ignore all else? Of course not. We are obviously more offended by their actions than you are. That’s OK too. We all pick our battles. This is ours for the moment. The MNR(Ministry of Natural Resources) has more power than the police in some instances. They can seize your truck, boat and equipment on the spot for some of these offences. I believe the MNR was overly generous to these two by allowing them to keep their licences. I’m not at all sure they would have treated me that way. So what do these two do? They try to blame the MNR for not writing clear rules. Page 4 – top of the page. It’s right there. Clear enough to me. I know you don’t have a copy, Mike. But, trust me. It’s there. doubt that many anglers will tar all Canadians with the same brush as you are suggesting, and the general public probably doesnt care much what anglers do, and would not watch an angling show anyway.
An old buddy of mine was in town last night. We met for a pint. He said something that may apply here. He is a long distance truck driver. He was commenting on how truck drivers are no longer respected by the public. Well, he used stronger language. <grin Anyway, when I was growing up, everyone thought highly of these guys. We will not let anyone cast a shadow over the many good, caring Canadian anglers. Least of all, these two. integrity on the part of public figures I for one must respectfully decline to take part in such an action. I would consider it a misuse of the internet, and there are already too many people doing that.
Of course, each person has to decide for themselves. I absolutely disagree that this is misuse of the internet. Since the Canadian mainstream press have so far given these fellas free reign to spew forth their deception since the guilty pleas were entered, what choice do we have? This is the one medium where we can say our piece to a reasonably wide audience. To my way of thinking, this is the perfect use of this medium. We aren’t slandering these two. We are countering their deceipt with the facts. These guy have lawyers with the Midas touch. They are not about to let us liable them. What the readers do about it, is their decision and no one else’s. I am not offended by those who choose not to participate. But, I want to be sure that whatever the decision, it is based on fact and not fiction. Jeff — Let’s Talk Fish! Big Fish! New Canadian Fishing Newsgroup Is Here! Jeff Goddard, Ottawa, Ont. Canada
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<snip
I think the analogy is they couldn’t find their behinds with both hands. — Hawk Autoreply address is incorrect.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Norman Hirsch schrieb in Nachricht I would not defend rapists at all, I think they ought to be castrated on the spot, and shot or hung shortly thereafter whichever costs the taxpayer less money. If your mission in life is to purposely misconstrue seriously meant posts then I am sorry for you. I was attempting to put a little perspective on the whole thing. If you dont like my opinion that is fine, if you dont agree with my views that is also fine. If you wish to personally insult me because of them. then piss off, I dont give a shit what you think anyway. Mike Connor
Whoa Mikey….Lighten up, I don’t think Norm was intending to personally insult. He seems to have brought up some good thought-provoking questions to your original post. OK the rapist point cut a little deep, but everything else was succinct and non-inflammatory. I accept your decision to not join in the boycott, its each angler’s personal choice. I may not agree with it, but I’ll defend your right to it. For my own thoughts, these Bozos gotta go. That they are still producing this inept show is unbelievable. These clowns couldn’t catch a fish in the wilderness to save their own lives (besides they could go for months on the fat reserves these porkers have built up). I say well done, "concerned Canadian" at Fintastic fin mounts (wink, wink), the sooner they exit the TV world the better for all of us. "ambassadors of the sport and conservation" indeed…..
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None other, Dave. Are we talking about Heneri and Italo Lamebrain? dave
– Let’s Talk Fish! Big Fish! New Canadian Fishing Newsgroup Is Here! Jeff Goddard, Ottawa, Ont. Canada
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All/many of the details, including their apologies, are presented in Canadian Sportfishing, Summer 1998 issue, page 6 … PS There were originally 9 charges. A spokesman for the MNR stated:"We had a guilty plea to the main charges, so the other ones went by the wayside. It was an agreed presentation to the court," Can you say plea bargain? One of their favourite things to say is: "We’ve come clean". Oh really? Gentlemen & Ladies, We here in Canada have a major problem. We have a fishing show in which the two hosts have been convicted of violating the fishing regulations and faking film footage shown for the program. They evidently do not believe anyone cares that they violated the law. This is in turn giving Canadian — Let’s Talk Fish! Big Fish! New Canadian Fishing Newsgroup Is Here! Jeff Goddard, Ottawa, Ont. Canada Are we talking about Heneri and Italo Lamebrain? dave
The very same. No problem with those bozos out here. They were dropped from the cable system here a long time ago. Rarely have I seen two more inept hosts. I guess their ethics are of the same calibre. Have no fear, friends to the north, I never did think these two represented Canadian sportfishing or sportsmanship in any way, shape or form. I have fished with too many really good fishermen up there the believe that. Still I appreciate that it upsets you. Hawk Autoreply address is incorrect.
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I have seen several posts on this ng concerning the fishing show. I agree with Mr. Connor. The best way to get rid of a show is not to watch it or write about it. It will be off the air soon enough.
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Norman Hirsch schrieb in Nachricht I would not defend rapists at all, I think they ought to be castrated on the spot, and shot or hung shortly thereafter whichever costs the taxpayer less money. If your mission in life is to purposely misconstrue seriously meant posts then I am sorry for you. I was attempting to put a little perspective on the whole thing. If you dont like my opinion that is fine, if you dont agree with my views that is also fine. If you wish to personally insult me because of them. then piss off, I dont give a shit what you think anyway. Mike Connor
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I guess it all depends on perspective. Bill Clinton, risks impeachement because he got a few blow jobs on the side, lied about it and asked someone else to lie about it. It’s the same thing here. The 2 t.v. hosts, knew they were doing wrong. Others had even told them so, but they went ahead and did their deeds anyway. They don’t feel remorseful. They tried to put the blame for their actions on other people and they refuse to appear before the fishing community. Usually, I am willing to forgive and forget but I cannot do this when there is flagrant disrespect for the law by someone who must be irreproachable. If they had robbed a bank…..ok. If they were caught for drunk driving ok. However, their position does not allow margin for error in this case like this. Concerned Canadian schrieb in Nachricht
((( huge snip ))) doing this sort of thing would have automatically public probably doesnt care much what anglers do, and would not watch an angling show anyway. The consequences of the action you are proposing might be more far reaching than you realise, and while I can understand your feelings and respect your wishes for integrity on the part of public figures I for one must respectfully decline
((( huge snip )))
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As I live the UK I havent seen the programme that you describe, but if the angling shows in the UK are anything to go by, the presenters are all jerks anyway who are only in it for the money (singing the praises of whichever tackle manufacturer gave them a freebie that week ! Mike. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I guess it all depends on perspective. Bill Clinton, risks impeachement because he got a few blow jobs on the side, lied about it and asked someone else to lie about it. It’s the same thing here. The 2 t.v. hosts, knew they were doing wrong. Others had even told them so, but they went ahead and did their deeds anyway. They don’t feel remorseful. They tried to put the blame for their actions on other people and they refuse to appear before the fishing community. Usually, I am willing to forgive and forget but I cannot do this when there is flagrant disrespect for the law by someone who must be irreproachable. If they had robbed a bank…..ok. If they were caught for drunk driving ok. However, their position does not allow margin for error in this case like this. Concerned Canadian schrieb in Nachricht ((( huge snip ))) doing this sort of thing would have automatically public probably doesnt care much what anglers do, and would not watch an angling show anyway. The consequences of the action you are proposing might be more far reaching than you realise, and while I can understand your feelings and respect your wishes for integrity on the part of public figures I for one must respectfully decline ((( huge snip )))
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<much good stuff snipped
<snip I for one am not in favour of hounding people in this way. What they did may not be very nice, but you arent really naive enough to believe that nobody else on these shows and in other media do it are you
Bravo, Mike. Some restraint is in order. Sure what they did is despicable. Easy enough to deal with. Television is the greatest democracy going and you vote every day, every time– with the on/off switch. I have seen this show. These two are first class bozos and the show is poorly produced. I don’t watch it any more. And I think, at least here in the States, there may be some others who feel the same way. It is no longer on my cable system. I worked for a TV network many years ago. I was there when Wild Kingdom had to show a disclaimer at the end of the show which has now become familiar on a lot of "reality shows" be they nature, fishing, or hunting. It says: Scenes whether actual or recreated depict actual events." This was supposed to let the audience know that some of the scenes were "staged" but were supposed to depict things that actually happen in nature. It was, nevertheless, a shock to many viewers to learn that what they were watching was not 100% "real". That’s because the show gave the impression that everything was "real". I have a feeling that most of the fishing shows could use this kind of disclaimer. I know of one production where the crew arrives several days in advance and pre-fishes, often capturing and caging fish that are later used in the production whent he "star" arrives for shooting. I resent this because there is nothing to reveal to the viewer that "it’s a fake". Sooner or later, people get fed up with these shenanigans and the people who perpetrate them get their comeuppance– the audience abandons them and the show goes off the air. It just takes more time and is less dramatic than "executing" the perpetrators. Hawk Autoreply address is incorrect. Too many spammers out there.
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Their names weren’t Red and Harold by any chance? Gentlemen & Ladies, We here in Canada have a major problem. We have a fishing show in which the two hosts have been convicted of violating the fishing regulations and faking film footage shown for the program. They evidently do not believe anyone cares that they violated the law. This is in turn giving Canadian fishing a further bad name in the angling world.
<snipped for brevity
Response:
Concerned Canadian schrieb in Nachricht
What was that supposed to mean? Gentlemen & Ladies, You must be a very concerned Canadian indeed to go to all this trouble to get these people off the air. I have heard quite a bit about this case already and many anglers are disgusted by it, judging by what I have heard. However, I think it would be a good idea if you told us who you are and gave us an E-mail address with your name etc so that we might consider carefully before carrying out your request to stir up this amount of trouble for people we dont even know.
Agreed Direct e-mails to sponsors seems a bit drastic, and might damage far more than than just a couple of idiots who have broken the law in order to further their own silly greed for fame and money, or whatever.
I don’t think it’s so drastic a measure, it’s done all the time. What "damage" are you suggesting might be caused? I am a passionate fisherman and find the sort of thing these people did very naughty indeed, but calling down the wrath of the combined angling internet on their heads in order to ruin them seems going a bit far.
I’m also a passionate fisherman but don’t find the proposed action going to far at all. Presumably they have already been punished by a court of law if they were convicted as you say, and I would assume that many people know of their offences in consequence, this alone ought to deter them from any further transgressions, and presumably will stop many people from watching their show ( or it might even have the reverse effect, who knows in this crazy world ? ).
Possibly I for one am not in favour of hounding people in this way. What they did may not be very nice, but you arent really naive enough to believe that nobody else on these shows and in other media do it are you ? They just havent been caught at it yet. If these guys were rapists or something then I might be moved to agree with you, but what they did is in my opinion a fairly minor thing compared with all the other nastiness going on in the world and does not warrant the type of sanctions you are proposing,
so apparently you are suggestion that if there is a greater crime, you shouldn’t punish the lesser crimes? Would your defence for a rapist be to claim he wasn’t as bad as a serial rapist? where I live being caught doing this sort of thing would have automatically resulted in a loss of fishing licence for life, which would rather put the kybosh on a career in angling anyway.
now you are contradicting yourself or don’t you believe in your own laws? Is this not the case in Canada ? I rather doubt that many anglers will tar all Canadians with the same brush as you are suggesting, and the general public probably doesnt care much what anglers do, and would not watch an angling show anyway.
I disagree. The consequences of the action you are proposing might be more far reaching than you realise,
like what? and while I can understand your feelings and respect your wishes for integrity on the part of public figures I for one must respectfully decline to take part in such an action. I would consider it a misuse of the internet, and there are already too many people doing that.
I respect your opinion but on the contrary, I believe the internet is a good medium for this kind of thing. — Best regards, Norman Hirsch Phone: 212-304-9660 NH&A Fax: 212-304-9759 New York, NY 10034 USA URL: http://www.nha.com
Response:
Gentlemen & Ladies, We here in Canada have a major problem. We have a fishing show in which the two hosts have been convicted of violating the fishing regulations and faking film footage shown for the program. They evidently do not believe anyone cares that they violated the law. This is in turn giving Canadian fishing a further bad name in the angling world. We have written letters in attempts to get the hosts to answer direct questions, they refuse to address the issue. We have written letters in an attempt to get the show cancelled with the answer that it will remain on the air until "more negative response" is received. Host, Henry Waszczuk, was convicted of fishing bass out of season. Both Waszczuk and co-host, Italo Labignas, were convicted of to joint charges of hooking fish in the body to so they could re-hook them in the mouth and film their retrieval for television. Waszczuk was also charged with fishing in a sanctuary. Article available at: http://www.newsworld.cbc.ca/archive/html/1998/04/16/fish980416a.html The name of the show is Canadian Sportfishing, it is aired on TSN, The Sports Network. They also publish a magazine called Canadian Sportfishing. Post your views at: http://www.zoo.utoronto.ca/FUN/Fish.html or news.can.rec.fishing We request that you assist us in getting these "anglers" off the air. Please write Rick Brace at the Sports Network(address below) requesting the show be cancelled. Please write, e-mail or fax the sponsors (listed below) to pull their sponsorship of convicted fishing law violators. Please boycott their magazine. Thank you for your assistance. Concerned Canadian The Sports Network Rick Brace. Web Site URL http://www.tsn.ca/ Audience Relations 416 490-7030 Canadian Sportfishing SPONSORS LIST Ford of Canada 1-800-565-FORD (3673)
