Question:

Will be fishing on the lake the next two weeks. I was wondering if  should take my fly fisshing gear?. Jim

Response:

Will be fishing on the lake the next two weeks. I was wondering if  should take my fly fisshing gear?. Jim

Nah, bugger the proprieties, take some wormss and sppinning gear. TL MC

Response:

"Jim McNinch" wrote… Will be fishing on the lake the next two weeks. I was wondering if  should take my fly fisshing gear?. Jim

There’s a chance to catch Northern Pike on the fly.  Give it a shot. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

Response:

Will be fishing on the lake the next two weeks. I was wondering if  should take my fly fisshing gear?.

It’s been about 25 years since I fished that area, but I remember some great evening fishing for Smallmouths with small poppers. Willi

Response:

Question:

I rented a felluca for day sailing. I think that it would be little trouble to get one for a fair cruise.

Excellent idea, and definitely in my style. —      Mark Anderson – DBA Riparia Resources    www.riparia.org Medical info for cruisers and woodworkers.  Boatbuilding plans. Artistic photography       Landscapes – Nautical and marine – Abstracts, extracts and themes.

Response:

I’m curious as to whether it is practical to cruise up and down the Nile R. with a private yacht. Legalities and other hassles: Practical draft limitations: Safety and pleasurability of your reception by the Egyptians: Any other information that may be of interest: —      Mark Anderson – DBA Riparia Resources    www.riparia.org

I rented a felluca for day sailing. I think that it would be little trouble to get one for a fair cruise. It would avoid all the problems of a rich-looking yacht. I’d not worry too much about piracy or big-deal problems. It’s petty theft that gets you. — Bernard W. Joseph     http://www.appliedgrammar.com   "Speak to us of Emailia."    James Joyce    FINNEGANS WAKE

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Last month I sailed a felucca from Aswan to Edfu, so based on limited knowledge of this stretch of water:

Thanks Tony, yours was the kind of info I was looking for.  As to the political climate, those responses are taken in mind, and as expected. For my own purposes, however, the time I might be taking this cruise will be at least several years into the future, so I’ll hope that the political situation might change by then.  In any event, it’ll be taken into account whenever, and probably I’d get the opinion of the state dept. first. —      Mark Anderson – DBA Riparia Resources    www.riparia.org Medical info for cruisers and woodworkers.  Boatbuilding plans. Artistic photography       Landscapes – Nautical and marine – Abstracts, extracts and themes.

Response:

A rich American cruising his flashy yacht in the Middle East…… Now THERE’s a TARGET of OPPORTUNITY for you. Hated by millions of Arabs because of our undying support for the Israeli War Machine…..tearing up Palestinians. Can you answer your own question?  PLEASE DON’T!

When I was in Egypt a quite few years ago (just after Egypt and Israel "normalized" relations) the average Egyptian on the street preferred Israeli money to Egyptian money for the small cash purchases.  And that was after a 10 to 1 devaluation of Israeli money. Things certainly may have changed in the past 20 years but back then they were very friendly to American tourists.  The only thing that had me feeling unsafe was the way they drive, especially in and around Cairo.  You probably heard about driving in Italy.  Cairo is much worse. Steve

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Oh, I think the average Egyptian is still "American friendly".  Most Arabs I ever met when I lived there were very pro-American and simply LOVED Yankee dollars.  However, times have changed, not the people. This Al Queda network is only one of many anti-American networks with supporters across a wide spectrum of Arab countries.  Bombs are going off almost every day, now. Flashing the big yacht in their faces, and all the cash that goes along with it, attracts attention.  Word is passed to the network from the supporters who will never see their own cars, much less a flashy yacht.  The damned thing is a great "target" and would be a prize on any terrorist’s list.  Egypt is eat up with anti-Israeli, and therefore anti-American, groups. It just seems stupid to put the family, the boat and his personal safety in harm’s way flashing that yacht in their faces after 9/11. Middle East changed that day.  Until the "brothers" in Afghanistan get the word spread out that America is NOT the enemy, and saved them from the gangsters who were killing the country, I’d pick a nice, quiet island someplace for the flashy yacht full of Yankees.  With so MANY beautiful places on the planet, why take the chance? Larry We fail, miserably, to see how hated we are because of our support for Israel, no matter who they kill, no matter what they do.  You have to live in an Arab country to really feel it.

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Yotties are not tourists – we aren’t treated as tourists in most places, don’t use the same visas, don’t follow the same rules, processes, etc.  Most countries treat yotties same as commercial ships, fishing vessels, etc – crew lists, clearances, paid for visas, etc   They know we don’t stay in hotels, buy loads of tourist crap, spend big in restaurants, etc.  We’re not "respected" and "protected" in the same way at all.  We aren’t part of that industry. On Egypt – many cruising friends have transited the Suez and universally agreed (much to my disappointment) that Egypt is a miserable shithole of a country to cruise.  Big theft and bribe problems. They get through there as quickly as possible with as short and few stops as necessary. It’s much easier and safe to park the boat in Cypress in a marina and fly in/out of Egypt – as a respected and protected tourist. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [...] It just seems stupid to put the family, the boat and his personal safety in harm’s way flashing that yacht in their faces after 9/11. Middle East changed that day.  Until the "brothers" in Afghanistan get the word spread out that America is NOT the enemy, and saved them from the gangsters who were killing the country, I’d pick a nice, quiet island someplace for the flashy yacht full of Yankees.  With so MANY beautiful places on the planet, why take the chance? Personally, I don’t think it would be all that much of a chance.  At least compared to many other beautiful places people cruise to.  Egypt definitely had a problem a while ago with terrorists attacking visitors.  But from what I’ve heard, they cracked down on them pretty hard.  A large part of their economy is based on tourism, so there’s a big incentive to keep tourists safe. Larry We fail, miserably, to see how hated we are because of our support for Israel, no matter who they kill, no matter what they do.  You have to live in an Arab country to really feel it. That’s just not true for the average person you meet in many Arab countries, including Egypt, especially Egypt. Steve

Response:

[...] It just seems stupid to put the family, the boat and his personal safety in harm’s way flashing that yacht in their faces after 9/11. Middle East changed that day.  Until the "brothers" in Afghanistan get the word spread out that America is NOT the enemy, and saved them from the gangsters who were killing the country, I’d pick a nice, quiet island someplace for the flashy yacht full of Yankees.  With so MANY beautiful places on the planet, why take the chance?

Personally, I don’t think it would be all that much of a chance.  At least compared to many other beautiful places people cruise to.  Egypt definitely had a problem a while ago with terrorists attacking visitors.  But from what I’ve heard, they cracked down on them pretty hard.  A large part of their economy is based on tourism, so there’s a big incentive to keep tourists safe. Larry We fail, miserably, to see how hated we are because of our support for Israel, no matter who they kill, no matter what they do.  You have to live in an Arab country to really feel it.

That’s just not true for the average person you meet in many Arab countries, including Egypt, especially Egypt. Steve

Response:

Last month I sailed a felucca from Aswan to Edfu, so based on limited knowledge of this stretch of water: Draft limitation: most of the cruise boats had a draft of 4 feet or 4′ 6".  Our felucca had a centre board so that we could pull into the bank. Buoyage: Almost non existent.  There are shallows and a few rocks. Local knowledge desirable. Wind:  Prevailing wind in this Southern stretch is Northerly (i.e. against the stream) so one can tack North with the stream or run South against it. Height:  The bridge North of Aswan is not yet complete – awaiting the final span.  When finished this would restrict mast height to that of the big cruise boats (30 – 40 feet at a guess). Formalities: I don’t know details, but almost certainly Yes.  Our felucca captain had to advise the police of our trip. Pleasure:  Definitely!  We swam in the river (no crocs below the High Dam), saw water buffalo, ibises etc.  We found people universally friendly, although a strong feeling that America would do anything to support Israel to the detriment of Arab states. Tony Boas Sadler 34 – Bold Warrior – Southampton, UK.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m curious as to whether it is practical to cruise up and down the Nile R. with a private yacht. Legalities and other hassles: Practical draft limitations: Safety and pleasurability of your reception by the Egyptians: Any other information that may be of interest: —      Mark Anderson – DBA Riparia Resources    www.riparia.org Medical info for cruisers and woodworkers.  Boatbuilding plans. Artistic photography       Landscapes – Nautical and marine – Abstracts, extracts and

themes.

Response:

Irving Johnson did his "TwiLight" cruise through the canals of Europe and up the Nile just before the Aswan dam was complete. I have the video here and it looks like a nice cruise. His boat was about 50 ft and moderate draft (not over 5 ft or he wouldn’t have been able to do the canals of Europe). I went to Egypt for a visit back in the mid 80s while I was working in Saudi Arabia. There was no problem as long as you didn’t have any Israeli stamps in you passport. I would imagine the climate is rather hostle now-a-days. I’d be more worried about stopping in Alexandria or transiting the Red Sea and it wouldn’t be the Egyptions that i would be afraid of. My opinion and experience, FWIW. Steve s/v Good Intentions

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A rich American cruising his flashy yacht in the Middle East…… Now THERE’s a TARGET of OPPORTUNITY for you. Hated by millions of Arabs because of our undying support for the Israeli War Machine…..tearing up Palestinians. Can you answer your own question?  PLEASE DON’T! larry I’d love to back to the Middle East where I lived and worked in Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Bahrain.  But, not now.  Not after 9/11/2001, PLEASE DON"T! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m curious as to whether it is practical to cruise up and down the Nile R. with a private yacht. Legalities and other hassles: Practical draft limitations: Safety and pleasurability of your reception by the Egyptians: Any other information that may be of interest: —     Mark Anderson – DBA Riparia Resources    www.riparia.org Medical info for cruisers and woodworkers.  Boatbuilding plans. Artistic photography      Landscapes – Nautical and marine – Abstracts, extracts and themes.

Response:

I’m curious as to whether it is practical to cruise up and down the Nile R. with a private yacht. Legalities and other hassles: Practical draft limitations: Safety and pleasurability of your reception by the Egyptians: Any other information that may be of interest: —      Mark Anderson – DBA Riparia Resources    www.riparia.org Medical info for cruisers and woodworkers.  Boatbuilding plans. Artistic photography       Landscapes – Nautical and marine – Abstracts, extracts and themes.

Response:

Question:

and why over-planning can lead to a skunking. We all get skunked sometimes but the skunkings that really bug me are the ones where others around me are catching fish and I’m getting diddly.  I don’t enjoy the feeling of incompetence.  The penny has finally dropped as to why (and no, the incompetence isn’t it.) We all go fishing operating on theory, approach, and method, but I’m starting to form the opinion that one can get too hung up on it. Before you dismiss me as being completely loonie consider this example of T.A.& M.: Theory – "Big browns feed at night." Approach – The big, slow pools on river XXXX should be fished at dusk. Method – Take a 6 wt. and cast a deerhair mouse pattern across current allowing the slow movement of the water to drag the mouse slowly across the pool. Unless one is a complete rookie, we all go through some sort of thought process like this before heading out.  But what happens if we do this in too great a detail and try to fit the river to our plans instead of the other way around?  What happens if there’s a hex hatch starting but we are still banging away with our mouse? Before setting out for the Penns clave, I’d pretty well decided that I’d swing wets or streamers if no hatch was happening.  The first day in, I was completely skunked until I gave up on the idea and began dredging the green water with PTs.  On my last trip to the Whirlpool, I had decided on speys and streamers, again nothing until I started dredging the bottom with bunny leeches.  Armed with this experience, I took my bunny leeches to the Catt, dredged the deep runs and was skunked again.  Last Sunday, I went to the Credit even though I knew the river would be blown out, just to try the new rod.  When I got down to the big tree pool, I tied on a black & purple spider spey and a sinking Polyleader as it seemed the appropriate thing to do, then began casting and drifting, getting the feel of the big stick, fixing casting problems, and fiddling with the mending.  Without even trying, I was into a fish.  In PA, the Whirlpool and at the Catt, I was getting skunked while others hooked fish.  At the Credit, I was the only one in the vicinity to get into a fish.  The boot was on the other foot. Duh!  Bingo!  Go with the flow instead or persisting with a pre-planned method.  It seems so blindingly obvious when I write it, but it’s so subtle to detect in real life.  We have to do some planning else we’d show up at the river with no rod but being too focused before leaving the house can saddle one with a goose egg. Perhaps I’m the only angler on the planet to do this, but I’m willing to bet I’m not.  From this point on, there will be at least one less. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Skunkings are primarily caused by being jinxed. To wit: Have you ever noticed that if you are catching fish hand over fist and then explain your success to another angler, the other angler will start catching fish and you will not catch another fish for at least 2 hours, probably the rest of the day? My fishing buddy, Rat, caught more fish on Good Friday than he had ever caught in his life. The rest of the summer, he was notably behind the curve. Even God is in on this. It is all superstition. Absolutely no science or method to it at all… — Citizen Fisherman I’m kinda spooked; I think I may have said too much already… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and why over-planning can lead to a skunking. We all get skunked sometimes but the skunkings that really bug me are the ones where others around me are catching fish and I’m getting diddly.  I don’t enjoy the feeling of incompetence.  The penny has finally dropped as to why (and no, the incompetence isn’t it.) We all go fishing operating on theory, approach, and method, but I’m starting to form the opinion that one can get too hung up on it. Before you dismiss me as being completely loonie consider this example of T.A.& M.: Theory – "Big browns feed at night." Approach – The big, slow pools on river XXXX should be fished at dusk. Method – Take a 6 wt. and cast a deerhair mouse pattern across current allowing the slow movement of the water to drag the mouse slowly across the pool. Unless one is a complete rookie, we all go through some sort of thought process like this before heading out.  But what happens if we do this in too great a detail and try to fit the river to our plans instead of the other way around?  What happens if there’s a hex hatch starting but we are still banging away with our mouse? Before setting out for the Penns clave, I’d pretty well decided that I’d swing wets or streamers if no hatch was happening.  The first day in, I was completely skunked until I gave up on the idea and began dredging the green water with PTs.  On my last trip to the Whirlpool, I had decided on speys and streamers, again nothing until I started dredging the bottom with bunny leeches.  Armed with this experience, I took my bunny leeches to the Catt, dredged the deep runs and was skunked again.  Last Sunday, I went to the Credit even though I knew the river would be blown out, just to try the new rod.  When I got down to the big tree pool, I tied on a black & purple spider spey and a sinking Polyleader as it seemed the appropriate thing to do, then began casting and drifting, getting the feel of the big stick, fixing casting problems, and fiddling with the mending.  Without even trying, I was into a fish.  In PA, the Whirlpool and at the Catt, I was getting skunked while others hooked fish.  At the Credit, I was the only one in the vicinity to get into a fish.  The boot was on the other foot. Duh!  Bingo!  Go with the flow instead or persisting with a pre-planned method.  It seems so blindingly obvious when I write it, but it’s so subtle to detect in real life.  We have to do some planning else we’d show up at the river with no rod but being too focused before leaving the house can saddle one with a goose egg. Perhaps I’m the only angler on the planet to do this, but I’m willing to bet I’m not.  From this point on, there will be at least one less. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

George Adams writes: FWIW, I have have found the Jailbird to be most effective fished deep, as a dropper or under an indicator.

Shhhhhhhhh! Dave

Response:

what color closed cell foam?

On the original (olive) pattern, I use white or yellow. On the modified (tan) pattern, I use yellow or orange. They seem to be most successful in sizes #18 -#22. I have done well with this pattern tied on scud type (curved) hooks and conventional wet fly hooks. There are a number of midge pups patterns, Serendipity for example, that incorporate a bouyant (deer hair or foam) collar so , at least in theory, the fly rides upright in the water. FWIW, I have have found the Jailbird to be most effective fished deep, as a dropper or under an indicator. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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 It also helps to keep an open mind, and not get too fixated on one particular aspect (unless, as a couple of people have pointed out, THAT is the goal) if you are _fishing_, rather than experimenting, testing, etc.

Interesting point. On a local freestone stream, most folks hit the pools in the fall with PT nymphs, or midge/bwo dry patterns.  I was down in a spot with a couple of small pools and pocket water.  In the small pools I  was noticing every once in a while a leaf would hit the water and bang! it would get hit.  I watched it a couple of times, figuring out that there was a terrestrial hanging on the falling leaf that was getting hit.  I didn’t find out *what*, though . In addition, there were a lot of yellow jackets around.  In talking with some folks who fished succesfully in that stretch, they were using bee patterns very successfully, even though it was past the traditional time for terrestrials. On the leaves, it could have been some left over ants or something hanging on…don’t know for sure.  But of course, I was geared up with 20 and 22 BWO’s and BHPT’s which were being ignored. Similar observations and results with another angler upstream a bit.  I didn’t have any terrestrial patterns with me, though, or I would have tried them. Rob

Response:

what color closed cell foam? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George Adams writes: Dave, Try the same pattern with tan dubbing, and either orange or yellow foam. {:-) And maybe change the ribbing to orange.  I’ll give it a try (come June). Dave

Response:

For me, it’s a matter of choosing a method at the house rather than when I arrived at the water, based either on past experience or just for the hell of it.  

Oh, well, yeah, you’re right then:  that’s just beggin’ for a skunkin’. When I would do that (for steelheading, it usually meant leaving one or another of the rods or lines at home, assuming I’d never, ever need it, not today), the invariable result was regret. Good luck on the Credit today.  BTW, how’s that thesis coming? JR

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree.  Being flexible is by far the best plan.  The trick to making it work, though, is to stick to it no matter what!  ;) Seriously, I wish life were that simple.  I’ve more than once been skunked in the morning, only to catch a mess in the afternoon, using the same technique.  Often the conditions change to coincide with whatever method we happen to be using.  Sometimes the "changed condition" can be simply moving down or up to a different piece of water.   Your post set me thinking back.  I don’t know that I’ve been skunked more often by sticking stubbornly to one method than by switching willy-nilly every twenty minutes from one fly and presentation to another.  The one thing to avoid, I think, is doing something–whatever it is–for no good reason, casting about blindly, as it were.  If I’ve decided on a method for good reason (weather, look of the water, behavior of the fish, past experience), I’ll generally stick with it until I’ve got an equally good reason to change.  Of course, human nature being what it is, a stretch of two or three fishless hours can in itself grow to seem a sufficient reason <g. Parenthetically, I find if the fishing is pleasant (balmy weather, pleasant scenery), I’m less tempted to change my plan than when it’s cold, grey, windy and raining. JR

For me, it’s a matter of choosing a method at the house rather than when I arrived at the water, based either on past experience or just for the hell of it.  The results are often not that good until I start paying attention to what the conditions are telling me.   I’ll be leaving for the Credit soon and this time I’ll be taking a good look at the water before I decide what to do. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Duh!  Bingo!  Go with the flow instead or persisting with a pre-planned method.  It seems so blindingly obvious when I write it, but it’s so subtle to detect in real life.  We have to do some planning else we’d show up at the river with no rod but being too focused before leaving the house can saddle one with a goose egg. Perhaps I’m the only angler on the planet to do this, but I’m willing to bet I’m not.  From this point on, there will be at least one less.

I agree.  Being flexible is by far the best plan.  The trick to making it work, though, is to stick to it no matter what!  ;) Seriously, I wish life were that simple.  I’ve more than once been skunked in the morning, only to catch a mess in the afternoon, using the same technique.  Often the conditions change to coincide with whatever method we happen to be using.  Sometimes the "changed condition" can be simply moving down or up to a different piece of water.   Your post set me thinking back.  I don’t know that I’ve been skunked more often by sticking stubbornly to one method than by switching willy-nilly every twenty minutes from one fly and presentation to another.  The one thing to avoid, I think, is doing something–whatever it is–for no good reason, casting about blindly, as it were.  If I’ve decided on a method for good reason (weather, look of the water, behavior of the fish, past experience), I’ll generally stick with it until I’ve got an equally good reason to change.  Of course, human nature being what it is, a stretch of two or three fishless hours can in itself grow to seem a sufficient reason <g. Parenthetically, I find if the fishing is pleasant (balmy weather, pleasant scenery), I’m less tempted to change my plan than when it’s cold, grey, windy and raining. JR

Response:

Example:  A couple of years ago I came across a pattern at an Orvis store. It’s called the "jail bird".  A very easy tie – size 20 hook, some closed cell foam at the thorax, olive dubbing with a red thread ribbing.

Dave, Try the same pattern with tan dubbing, and either orange or yellow foam. {:-) George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

George Adams writes: Dave, Try the same pattern with tan dubbing, and either orange or yellow foam. {:-)

And maybe change the ribbing to orange.  I’ll give it a try (come June). Dave

Response:

Skunkings are primarily caused by being jinxed. To wit: Have you ever noticed that if you are catching fish hand over fist and then explain your success to another angler, the other angler will start catching fish and you will not catch another fish for at least 2 hours, probably the rest of the day?

No, I’ve never noticed that. — Check out the ROFF Calendar at: http://www.ruralnetwork.net/%7Etroutbum/calendar/calendar.html

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willi, I agree with you–it is fun just to try new methods and tools.  I never catch many fish but enjoy spending a little time reading then going out ant trying a new technique. still no success with streamers or upstream casting of nymphs- but then perhaps the fish had not read the same article. Had great fun in Oct. when Big Dale and I shared cabin on small N.C. stream.[ see below I hit wrong button] first time I got a chance to fish same stream for four days with similar weather conditions. Tried dries, nymphs and streamers  for a day each   all with  minor success.  The fourth morning I walked down to the creek, cast three times and caught three fish–then not another in two hours. Some days are more fun than others.      Indian Joe    Wilmington N.C. some days are more fun than others.

Response:

and why over-planning can lead to a skunking. We all get skunked sometimes but the skunkings that really bug me are the ones where others around me are catching fish and I’m getting diddly.  I don’t enjoy the feeling of incompetence.  The penny has finally dropped as to why (and no, the incompetence isn’t it.) We all go fishing operating on theory, approach, and method, but I’m starting to form the opinion that one can get too hung up on it.

It always helps to do some basic planning, and research/ reconnaissance, before hitting the water, just to know what’s there, so you can make an educated guess as to what’s possible, what’s likely, and what else _might_work if your originally-intended method seems to be "off."  It also helps to keep an open mind, and not get too fixated on one particular aspect (unless, as a couple of people have pointed out, THAT is the goal) if you are _fishing_, rather than experimenting, testing, etc. This is one reason why (a disappointingly decreasing percentage, I’d offer) some anglers take a few basic tying supplies with them (certainly on overnight or longer trips), even on all-day trips.  You don’t need a lot of stuff – a water-tight "flip-top" eyeglass or cigarette box will hold a sufficiency – but of course, some at-home freehand tying practice is important unless you want to lug a vise (I don’t, but a "multi-purpose" tool and stout rubber band will do in a pinch, as will a pin vise).  It also helps to be ready to use whatever is at hand as a material.  In fact, some notable "modification" patterns are reported to have originated with less-than-orthodox materials adapted "spur of the moment."  If you do use any less-than-orthodox material, depending on source, or even traditional material long-stored in fishing clothing, I’d advise attempting to remove as much "human scent" as possible – for example, if you use some pocket lint for dubbing, rub it in some natural material, dirt/mud (if it’s not on the reddish side), loam, etc. and rinse in the fishing water.  I can’t say for sure as to whether the fish can tell, but I do think that it’s better safe than sorry.

Response:

Peter Charles wrote…. and why over-planning can lead to a skunking.

Not over planning just stubborness.   You want to do it the way you want and you forget why you’re there. Your way or no way.  A little flexibility and your accumulated knowledge and your back to catching fish. There’s no explaining a skunking. There’s no reason or logic when others are catching and you’re not. Unless you’re totally inept.  It’s just chance. Fate. What brings you back next time. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

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I’m getting into this discussion a little late…  In waters that I know, it is always fun to experiment with something new.  During the off-season (now), I will tie new patterns that I *know* will work.  Call it intuition.  Most times they *do*  work.   Example:  A couple of years ago I came across a pattern at an Orvis store. It’s called the "jail bird".  A very easy tie – size 20 hook, some closed cell foam at the thorax, olive dubbing with a red thread ribbing.  I *knew* it would work at a certain spot on a certain river.  My first short cast with it brought up a beautiful brookie. Another example, Peter, is those Clousers you tied in September.  When I saw them I knew they would work – and they did.  <g I’ve never been skunked on that river – came close a few times, however. That is when I stop my "normal" attack and use something different, something that I *know* they will like.  We’ve heard it said that trout are like women:  find out what they want and give it to them.  The finding out part can be very difficult, especially on waters unfamiliar to you.   Dave

Response:

Peter,   You make, as ever, good points. I think another couple are:1)knowledge of the river you are fishing often prevents bad theory in the first place and 2) on hard-fished rivers, something different often works.   To feebly illustrate: Using your Penn’s example, I could have shown you places in the early morning to hammer them with streamers, even in the lower waters. Also, large wets were working pretty well in the off peak times over the right water. I had a bit more local knowledge(and you and David rendered yourselves out of reach of where I was fishing most days,lest any readers think I was witholding advice).

Well, that was my first thought. You’re right about fishing waters you know well. Knowing them well and the comfort that gives, is one of their pleasures. On my home river, there are a number of small areas I know that fish use as feeding stations that are almost always ignored by other anglers. They are in nondiscript water that I found from watching the fish during low water conditions or dimpling during a hatch. On the other hand, new waters are exciting; from figuring out where and how to fish, to just being in a new beautiful place. Willi

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Peter,   You make, as ever, good points. I think another couple are:1)knowledge of the river you are fishing often prevents bad theory in the first place and 2) on hard-fished rivers, something different often works.   To feebly illustrate: Using your Penn’s example, I could have shown you places in the early morning to hammer them with streamers, even in the lower waters. Also, large wets were working pretty well in the off peak times over the right water. I had a bit more local knowledge(and you and David rendered yourselves out of reach of where I was fishing most days,lest any readers think I was witholding advice).   For the other point, I once fished the Tulpehocken during a decent caddis emergence. I, and several others patiently tried adults, pupa and the like, to little effect. Some fella rolls through with a chartreuse Glo-bug and has browns of 18 inches or so chasing the thing. He landed 4 from the pool I was fishing and moved on…                                Tom L

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I agree that persisting with a pre-planned method is often going to result in few or no fish especially if the conditions don’t warrant the method you’ve chosen. However, there are times, especially on my home river that I decide I’m going to catch fish on my terms or I won’t catch any. Sometimes I just want to fish a particular technique, catching lots of fish isn’t always the goal. Sometimes it’s fun to try and "will" a fish to take something that "shouldn’t" work. Willi

I agree – you know X will catch fish so you try Y just for shits & giggles.  Done it many times.  That’s for waters you know well, however my sins extend to waters that I know squat about.  It’s just a matter of not bringing too many preconceived notions to the water. You can’t hear what the water is telling you over the cacophony of your plans. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and why over-planning can lead to a skunking. We all get skunked sometimes but the skunkings that really bug me are the ones where others around me are catching fish and I’m getting diddly.  I don’t enjoy the feeling of incompetence.  The penny has finally dropped as to why (and no, the incompetence isn’t it.) Duh!  Bingo!  Go with the flow instead or persisting with a pre-planned method.  It seems so blindingly obvious when I write it, but it’s so subtle to detect in real life.  We have to do some planning else we’d show up at the river with no rod but being too focused before leaving the house can saddle one with a goose egg. Perhaps I’m the only angler on the planet to do this, but I’m willing to bet I’m not.  From this point on, there will be at least one less.

I agree that persisting with a pre-planned method is often going to result in few or no fish especially if the conditions don’t warrant the method you’ve chosen. However, there are times, especially on my home river that I decide I’m going to catch fish on my terms or I won’t catch any. Sometimes I just want to fish a particular technique, catching lots of fish isn’t always the goal. Sometimes it’s fun to try and "will" a fish to take something that "shouldn’t" work. Willi

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Question:

Wolfgang wrote Wolfie The only difference between men and boys is the cost of their toys. Hm, so what does this tell us about all the folks who have purchased a certain unnamed and oh so affordable knot tying tool?    :)

Boys will be boys will Be boys will be boys will be Men, and men will die.                               …Jay Jenks, boyhood pal now beyond the pale —                                                       -dnc-

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I had a subscription to WarmWater Flyfishing and after the first year I decided not to renew.Why?I found that the magazine was starting to get into the pattern of typical "bassin’" magazines.You know;slow and deep for winter bass,deadly patterns for early spring bluegills etc.The first few issues had my attention with articles on catching gar or peacock bass.After that there was too much redundancy.Other flyfishing magazines include enough articles on warm water flyfishing to fill the void.I like flyfishing magazines better than spinfisherman magazines because most of the time they don’t have that gonzo bass-pro attitude.W.W.Flyfishing seemed to me to be developing an identity crisis.Were all us flyfishing bass chasers really bassboat plug chuckers who had a desperate need to tie flies that looked and worked just as good as a spinnerbait and a plastic worm?I don’t think so. Tight Lines,Shawn

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Wolfie The only difference between men and boys is the cost of their toys.

Hm, so what does this tell us about all the folks who have purchased a certain unnamed and oh so affordable knot tying tool?    :)

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Wolfie The only difference between men and boys is the cost of their toys. Hm, so what does this tell us about all the folks who have purchased a certain unnamed and oh so affordable knot tying tool?    :)

I guess I will have to raise the price to seperate the men from the boys. Ernie

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In my not so humble opinion your estwing hammer isn’t the proper tool to try hitting nails with. — Don Thompson well, speaking from long experience, I’d say your nsho is wrong.

Yep, gotta agree with this one.  Bought my Estwing straight claw nearly twenty years ago and have pounded more nails, recalcitrant boards, various impedimenta, and thumbs with it than I care to remember.  If all tools were made this well a whole lot of manufacturers would soon go out of business. Wolfgang who, after all the rhapsodies in praise of cordless screwdrivers here in the past couple of weeks and after becoming hopelessly snarled in electrical cords while constructing a grape arbor this weekend, spent a full hour yesterday ogling the latest offerings from DeWalt, Makita, Bosch, et al.

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Wolfie The only difference between men and boys is the cost of their toys. Ernie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wolfgang who, after all the rhapsodies in praise of cordless screwdrivers here in the past couple of weeks and after becoming hopelessly snarled in electrical cords while constructing a grape arbor this weekend, spent a full hour yesterday ogling the latest offerings from DeWalt, Makita, Bosch, et al.

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Geez! What the hell is wrong with you people? One guy expresses his opinion and he’s jumped on. Amazing.

Nothing wrong with the people here, John. Suffice it to say that nobody on this list (with the exception of me and one or two other folks who lurk but don’t post) knows what the real deal was with the closure of Warmwater.

Mr. Smith firmly stated that he did know "the real deal" and he was even willing to bet his hammer on it. Thank you for setting the record straight. Now, back to the newsgroup.

Been here all along. — Ken Fortenberry

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I don’t understand what is going on with this thread. I enjoyed the magazine,and thought it was well done. I appreciate the efforts of John and his staff in promoting Warmwater fly fishing and I miss the magazine.

Never read the magazine. I did receive an unsolicited copy of 8 wt Journal in the mail one time. It was OK, but I was never tempted to subscribe. What I objected to was the slurs against the new CEO at Abenaki. Most distasteful and uncalled for in my opinion. You can miss the magazine without bad mouthing someone, especially when that person is in no position to defend himself here on ROFF. — Ken Fortenberry

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Most distasteful and uncalled for in my opinion. You can miss the magazine without bad mouthing someone, especially when that person is in no position to defend himself here on ROFF.

I sure agree with that. Big Dale

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Geez! What the hell is wrong with you people? One guy expresses his opinion and he’s jumped on. Amazing. Suffice it to say that nobody on this list (with the exception of me and one or two other folks who lurk but don’t post) knows what the real deal was with the closure of Warmwater. To those who liked and supported the magazine, my thanks. Now, back to the newsgroup. John Likakis

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Never read the magazine. I did receive an unsolicited copy of 8 wt Journal in the mail one time. It was OK, but I was never tempted to subscribe. What I objected to was the slurs against the new CEO at Abenaki. Most distasteful and uncalled for in my opinion. You can miss the magazine without bad mouthing someone, especially when that person is in no position to defend himself here on ROFF.

Your right. Perhaps I shouldn’t have directed my dissapointment so strongly at the publisher.  It is just that I am Interested in people with vision.  People who understand that the only differance between dreams and reality, is the making the dream, a reality. Still, I believe the decision to end Warm Water was premature.  At this point in history, the average person thinks that flyfishing is for trout only.  Warm Water Flyfishing magazine challenged that assumption directly.  Great ideas take time to bring into reality sometimes. I enjoy watching fishing shows when I get a chance.  A few years ago, you didn’t see that many flyfishing episodes let alone flyfishing for warm water species.  Since the advent of Warm Water Flyfishing magazine, I have been able to enjoy several episodes including warm water species. Fly fishing for carp?  Why not to long ago I watched an entire episode of Flip Pallot and Lefty Kreh fly fishing for carp! They were calling it the *fresh water bonefish*.  Wow!  I credit people like John Likakis and his magazine, with stimulating the interest. Another reason I feel thet the decision was premature, is because the flyfishing industry, itself, was just beginning to wake up to the possibilities ( this was the point I was driving home in a previous post).  Warm water flyfishing has different tackle needs.  A magazine that broadened the market can only strengthen the industry. It’s too bad they didn’t wake up sooner.                                     Mike Smith

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Mr. Fortenberry:    My complement and support for John Likakis, was both genuine and heartfelt.  I meant it as nothing more than that.

Well, with friends like you and your Winston, Mr. Likakis sure as hell doesn’t need any enemies. — Ken Fortenberry

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 In my not so humble opinion your estwing hammer isn’t the proper tool to try hitting nails with. —  Don Thompson  Zoomie(BushBug)  ACA#3460  TLCB#335  Any Time, Any Place  Pull the chocks, lets get this kite in the air.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And I’m willing to bet the Estwing hammer that I swing for a living, that I’ve hit the nail on the head.

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In my not so humble opinion your estwing hammer isn’t the proper tool to try hitting nails with. — Don Thompson

well, speaking from long experience, I’d say your nsho is wrong.       Jim Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

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aren’t big enough for bass and pike flys, maybe I should look for suppliers.  Ooops! Where do I look?

For feathers more suitable for bass and pike flies you should check out the feathers from Ewing Featherbirds inc. of Waterville,Ia.The last catalog I have MWflytying.com as another source for materials for tying bass flys. I don’t understand what is going on with this thread. I enjoyed the magazine,and thought it was well done. I appreciate the efforts of John and his staff in promoting Warmwater fly fishing and I miss the magazine. Big Dale                                                                      

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I don’t know anything about the gripe you & John have against the new CEO at Abenaki but your rabble rousing in ROFF is transparent, distasteful and as phony as a three dollar bill.

I’m with you, Ken… In the immortal words of Mr. Class-Act himself… DON’T FEED THE TROLL!! –Steve

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While I have long gray hair, I can assure you that I am no relation to John, … I don’t know anything about the gripe you & John have against the new CEO at Abenaki but your rabble rousing in ROFF is transparent, distasteful and as phony as a three dollar bill.

Mr. Fortenberry:    My complement and support for John Likakis, was both genuine and heartfelt.  I meant it as nothing more than that.  I have been lurking here for quite some time, but it was not until I found that he was reading on the usenet that I have ever felt compelled to post anything on the usenet before.  This was my first time.      Yes, I do resent Abenaki’s (or perhaps more accuratly Rodale Press’s) decision to end publication of Warm Water Flyfishing magazine.  I love my sport deeply, and I have many thanks for people, like Mr. Likakis, who have been spreading the news that flyfishing is an all around sport.    My Winston 5wt and I have enjoyed many great experiances together on these wonderful Green Mountain streams.  But thanks to Mr. Likakis and Warm Water Flyfishing, my Sage 7wt and I am getting very well aquianted with these Green Mountain lakes and rivers.  And guess what?  I can’t wait for my first opportunity to lock into a carp on my fly rod.    Perhaps my 7wt won’t be enough. Maybe I should look into an 8wt.  It might be a good idea because I can use it for Pike also.  It could be that a 6wt would be just the thing for the White river.    It’s my suspicion, Mr. Fortenberry, that the decision to end this fine magazines publication, had less to do with lack of interest on the part of the public, and more to do with piss poor sales support by management.  It’s just another case of city bound account executives inability to see the green through the skyscrapers.  And I’m willing to bet the Estwing hammer that I swing for a living, that I’ve hit the nail on the head.    In the meantime, I think I will look into a Bauer reel to go along with that 8wt.  Also these feathers that I use for tying trout flys aren’t big enough for bass and pike flys, maybe I should look for suppliers.  Ooops! Where do I look?                                  Mike Smith

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While I have long gray hair, I can assure you that I am no relation to John, …

I don’t know anything about the gripe you & John have against the new CEO at Abenaki but your rabble rousing in ROFF is transparent, distasteful and as phony as a three dollar bill. — Ken Fortenberry

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… Indeed the flyfishing industry deserves some level of critisism for their lack of vision as well. A publication that both broadened and deepened their market deserved far more support than was given.

If it had been profitable to publish it, it would still be published. The warm water species of choice in the US is the largemouth bass and a flyrod is neither the popular nor the best way to catch a largemouth bass. The flyfishing industry, like all capitalist industry, exists to make a profit, and that can sometimes be cruel, especially to visionaries. — Ken Fortenberry

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … Indeed the flyfishing industry deserves some level of critisism for their lack of vision as well. A publication that both broadened and deepened their market deserved far more support than was given. If it had been profitable to publish it, it would still be published. The warm water species of choice in the US is the largemouth bass and a flyrod is neither the popular nor the best way to catch a largemouth bass. The flyfishing industry, like all capitalist industry, exists to make a profit, and that can sometimes be cruel, especially to visionaries.

While I have long gray hair, I can assure you that I am no relation to John, nor do I have any resemblence to any mom you ever met.                                  Mike Smith

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Many thanks for the kind thoughts. Perhaps some other visionary publishing company might like to hire me! (Doesn’t seem real likely.) John Likakis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John:  I want to take this opportunity to express my deep regrets and disappointment with the present management of Abenaki Publishing’s decision to cancel publication of Warm Water Flyfishing Magazine. I believe it to be a very grave error in judgment on their part.  While fly fishing for warm water species has been a sporting activity for quite some time, your dedication and enthusiasm to popularizing this sport, beginning with your publication of the 8 WT. Journal, should, no less than leave you a chapter in the history of the great sport of flyfishing. It is a crying shame that the prophetic vision of your creative spirit, combined with shared vision and support of the previous CEO of Abenaki publishing, should be relaced by such ineptitude and lack of vision. Indeed the flyfishing industry deserves some level of critisism for their lack of vision as well. A publication that both broadened and deepened their market deserved far more support than was given. I hope that your chapter in history is not closed!!!

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John:  I want to take this opportunity to express my deep regrets and disappointment with the present management of Abenaki Publishing’s decision to cancel publication of Warm Water Flyfishing Magazine. I believe it to be a very grave error in judgment on their part.  While fly fishing for warm water species has been a sporting activity for quite some time, your dedication and enthusiasm to popularizing this sport, beginning with your publication of the 8 WT. Journal, should, no less than leave you a chapter in the history of the great sport of flyfishing. It is a crying shame that the prophetic vision of your creative spirit, combined with shared vision and support of the previous CEO of Abenaki publishing, should be relaced by such ineptitude and lack of vision. Indeed the flyfishing industry deserves some level of critisism for their lack of vision as well. A publication that both broadened and deepened their market deserved far more support than was given. I hope that your chapter in history is not closed!!!

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Question:

My buddy and I want to schedule our first trip out west to flyfish for trout.Spring or summer will be the plan. We will probably hire guides most of the time. We are looking for suggestions on where you guys would go if you had the chance.I have been saving for a long time to travel out west to fish for good size trout. I have been flyfishing for 15 years and have never fished west of New York. I am not looking for the most expensive trip but I dont mind spending some money for a quality experience. Thanks in advance br

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Go to Ennis Montana from July 21-31.  It should be a lot of fun and very good fishing.  Other ROFFians will be there.  Check it out at the following url http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html — Vern Before you buy.

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Why not try coming the the Northwest?  Here in British Columbia we have ton’s ‘o’ trout, even some bass, and lots of secluded lakes and rivers to try.  Plus the Canuck buck is cheap for you guys.  If I had the time and money I’d hit the Elk and St. Mary’s river systems in July, do some lake fishing "anywhere", but if you stick to the Kootenays, there’s Whitetail Lake and a number of other "trophy lakes" that are reasonably accessible. Check out www.anglingbc.com  or  www.sportfishingbc.com   or www.bcadventure.com   for some links and fishing guides or lodges. Cheers.

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Bruce,     The fishing in the Southwest corner of Montana is terrific.  I fish the Beaverhead, the Ruby, and the Big hole.  All have proved to be very good to me.  I have a friend who guides with Frontier Anglers out of Dillon Montana. His name is Garey Avis.  He has hooked me up with many nice fish.  If you are interested I could pass along his home phone number.     Make the trip, you’ll be glad you did. "Catch you Later" David Lloyd

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My buddy and I want to schedule our first trip out west to flyfish for trout.Spring or summer will be the plan. We will probably hire guides most of the time. We are looking for suggestions on where you guys would go if you had the chance.I have been saving for a long time to travel out west to fish for good size trout. I have been flyfishing for 15 years and have never fished west of New York. I am not looking for the most expensive trip but I dont mind spending some money for a quality experience. Thanks in advance br

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The fishing in the Southwest corner of Montana is terrific.  I fish the Beaverhead, the Ruby, and the Big hole.  All have proved to be very good to me.

Not any more.  The fish are all gone due to whirling disease.  The only fish left are the secret stashes I have and will only reveal to those that show up at the Western Conclave in Ennis (Jul 21-31) Warren Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

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I just received my "Fly-Fishing" magazine yesterday.  In it they have a good article about Henry’s Fork which is just across the south- western state line of Montana. According to "Fly-Fishing" magazine, the Henry’s Fork has rebounded to become one of the best fly-fishing rivers in America.  In fact, "Sports Afield" rated Henry’s Fork in their April 1999 issue as one of the top fly-fishing rivers in the USA and "Trout" magazine recently rated Henry’s Fork as the BEST trout stream in America. (I know that the names of the magazines should not be in quotation marks but underlined or italicized instead.  However, I don’t have that ability when using deja.com) I know that Henry’s Fork is not in Montana, but it is almost in Montana.  At least, it’s on the same place of the globe. I’m going to fish Henry’s Fork on August 1 after the western conclave. If any of you have a little extra time after the western conclave, join me.  It should be fun. — Vern ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

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I’d recommend the Green River just below the Flaming Gorge Dam down to Little Hole in NE Utah.  Fantastic fishing along with spectacular scenery. Rich Utah Fish Finder http://www.utahfishfinder.com/flyfishing.shtml

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Rich wrote I’d recommend the Green River just below the Flaming Gorge Dam down to Little Hole in NE Utah.  Fantastic fishing along with spectacular

scenery. I really like section A of the Green too, but pack your elbow grease. You’ll need it for rubbin up next to the guy upstream and downstream from you. —                                                       -dnc-

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It really depends on what you’re looking for…and sometimes, where there are lot of trout – there are also lots of people. You may want to try Northwest Montana as an option (lots of trout and not many people) – The Kootenai River (45 minutes south) has some great troutfishing – a couple of years ago a 30+ pound rainbow was caught! In addition, in our area – just to the west of Glacier Park – there are plenty of local trout lakes, rivers, streams, and higher alpine lakes that are tremendous…I enjoy fishing them because I’m usually the only person in the area – and they produce great rainbow and native cutthroat trout. On the Kootenai River – I would recommend Dave Blackburn (see the link on my links page) – he knows the river extremely well.  Several of the other lakes and streams are accessible by forest service trails – and are well marked – there really isn’t a need for a guide. Good luck on finding that special place! Keith and Dona The Montana Cabin http://www.TheMontanaCabin.com Rich wrote I’d recommend the Green River just below the Flaming Gorge Dam down to Little Hole in NE Utah.  Fantastic fishing along with spectacular scenery. I really like section A of the Green too, but pack your elbow grease. You’ll need it for rubbin up next to the guy upstream and downstream from you. —                                                       -dnc-

Before you buy.

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I really like section A of the Green too, but pack your elbow grease. You’ll need it for rubbin up next to the guy upstream and downstream from you.

You can skip the elbow grease if you fish downstream of little hole, but even then, plan on hiking several miles to escape the hordes. Stay upstream of red creek, especially if rain is in the forecast. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

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–                                                       -dnc- Rusty Hook wrote I really like section A of the Green too, but pack your elbow grease. You’ll need it for rubbin up next to the guy upstream and downstream from you. You can skip the elbow grease if you fish downstream of little hole, but even then, plan on hiking several miles to escape the hordes. Stay upstream of red creek, especially if rain is in the forecast.

Thanks for the advice.  I’ll be there in May.  I threaten to try the B section every year but still have not, maybe this year.  Red Creek is downstream from Little Hole I take it.  Is this a safety warning (like, if it rains too much it may be difficult to get home) or just a fishing warning (like, if it’s raining, Red Creek turns the Green to Red)?

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Question:

Hi Fisherfolks! One of my friends is going to a family reunion near Charma, New Mexico. He says the Brazos River is near there. He would like to try fly-fishing again while he is there. He used to flyfish as a kid, but let it go as an adult, and would like to find a guide who can help him get reacquainted (sp?) with it. Can anyone help with this? Please E-mail me your response. Thanks for the help! Steve Rosenblum Ann Arbor, MI

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Hi Fisherfolks! One of my friends is going to a family reunion near Charma, New Mexico. He says the Brazos River is near there. He would like to try fly-fishing again while he is there. He used to flyfish as a kid, but let it go as an adult, and would like to find a guide who can help him get reacquainted (sp?) with it. Can anyone help with this? Please E-mail me your response. Thanks for the help! Steve Rosenblum Ann Arbor, MI

Hi Steve I recently fished there and the fishing was good. I didn’t use a guide but I’m sure you can find a guide by clicking on my web page and then on the fishing reports. There is a whole section on New Mexico. From there it’s just a matter of checking the different report and the organizations who supply them. Good luck & … — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Catalog,Tips & Tricks, Fishing Reports, & NeverSink at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

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Hi Fisherfolks! One of my friends is going to a family reunion near Charma, New Mexico. He says the Brazos River is near there. He would like to try fly-fishing again while he is there. He used to flyfish as a kid, but let it go as an adult, and would like to find a guide who can help him get reacquainted (sp?) with it. Can anyone help with this? Please E-mail me your response. Thanks for the help! Steve Rosenblum Ann Arbor, MI

I don’t know about the Brazos but the Chama, the Rio Grande, the Cimmaron and other N New Mexico streams and rivers offer great fishing.  Your friend might contact Van Beacham at Los Rios Angler in Taos (not too far from Chama by western standards).  LRA phone number is (505)758-2798.  Los Pinos in Albaquerque (505) 884-7501 or High Desert Angler in Sanat Fe (505) 98 TROUT –don’t you hate look for those letters?– might be able to suggest or provide guides.  The book Flyfishing in Northern New Mexico is great if you friend doesn’t really need a guide. John

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Question:

An interesting experience with Atlantics!  I didn’t know they were on the West Coast. The sparse Chum you mentioned, is this something new, or have you noticed it coming on.  Our populations of Chum here in Oregon have been sadly declining for several years now.  In fact there are few left.  And they are one of my favorite quarry with a fly. Burton

Well I don’t think that they’re declining.  There was a supposed poor return last year supposedly due to environmental considerations or something.  I think that they were just a little late this year.  A friend fished the same river last week and said that they were plenty of fresh chum in the lower part of the river.  I do enjoy fishing for them when they’re in a taking mood, but I have yet to uncover any sort of consistent success with them.  I would really like to find a beach with some silver chums  on it and try for them in the salt.  Haven’t been able to figure that one out yet either.

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An interesting experience with Atlantics!  I didn’t know they were on the West Coast. The sparse Chum you mentioned, is this something new, or have you noticed it coming on.  Our populations of Chum here in Oregon have been sadly declining for several years now.  In fact there are few left.  And they are one of my favorite quarry with a fly. Burton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -just spent an interesting trip out on a local river where the Chum salmon were rather sparse.  I was swinging an egg sucking leech over the

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s too bad these farm escaped fish are moving in on our rivers.  It felt weird to cold heartedly slay what I’m sure is a noble fish in its own territory. Oh well, if you’re planning a trip after Atlantics, you might want to consider Vancouver ISland, B.C.   Martin There have been a few caught down here as well.  Someone was telling me that they are sterile, in which case, seems like they’ll do no harm. They hit a dry fly and fight well, they’re welcome to hang around where I fish. I have heard that due to the cramped quarters that these aqua cultured fish are kept in, that bacterial and fungal outbreaks are common on these fish. They may not be as harmless as you think if they introduce disease into the resident natural population. Food for thought. mike

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It’s too bad these farm escaped fish are moving in on our rivers.  It felt weird to cold heartedly slay what I’m sure is a noble fish in its own territory. Oh well, if you’re planning a trip after Atlantics, you might want to consider Vancouver ISland, B.C.   Martin There have been a few caught down here as well.  Someone was telling me that they are sterile, in which case, seems like they’ll do no harm. They hit a dry fly and fight well, they’re welcome to hang around where I fish.

Down here ? William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

Response:

It’s too bad these farm escaped fish are moving in on our rivers.  It felt weird to cold heartedly slay what I’m sure is a noble fish in its own territory. Oh well, if you’re planning a trip after Atlantics, you might want to consider Vancouver ISland, B.C.   Martin

They are also in the Skagit River, having escaped from a pen in Puget Sound. Pat Hayden Sedro-Woolley

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It’s too bad these farm escaped fish are moving in on our rivers.  It felt weird to cold heartedly slay what I’m sure is a noble fish in its own territory. Oh well, if you’re planning a trip after Atlantics, you might want to consider Vancouver ISland, B.C.   Martin

There have been a few caught down here as well.  Someone was telling me that they are sterile, in which case, seems like they’ll do no harm. They hit a dry fly and fight well, they’re welcome to hang around where I fish.

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It’s too bad these farm escaped fish are moving in on our rivers.  It felt weird to cold heartedly slay what I’m sure is a noble fish in its own territory. Oh well, if you’re planning a trip after Atlantics, you might want to consider Vancouver ISland, B.C.   Martin There have been a few caught down here as well.  Someone was telling me that they are sterile, in which case, seems like they’ll do no harm. They hit a dry fly and fight well, they’re welcome to hang around where I fish.

I have heard that due to the cramped quarters that these aqua cultured fish are kept in, that bacterial and fungal outbreaks are common on these fish. They may not be as harmless as you think if they introduce disease into the resident natural population. Food for thought. mike

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I just spent an interesting trip out on a local river where the Chum salmon were rather sparse.  I was swinging an egg sucking leech over the few fish I could find when I had a take.  I set the hoook and the fish took a little upstream run.  I saw the medium sized fish was a dark color and not the green and purple typical of chum.  I was thinking I’d been lucky enough to hook a coho and put some pressure on the fish.  It jumped and then moved close to me where I noticed a bronze color with blue and red spots!  An Atlantic Salmon! I put extra pressure on the fish to capture this nasty unwanted invader.  One big sweep of the two handed rod and the fish was beached.  I clobbered it over the head and it’s now in the freezer waiting for the authorities to haul it away for dissection. It’s too bad these farm escaped fish are moving in on our rivers.  It felt weird to cold heartedly slay what I’m sure is a noble fish in its own territory. Oh well, if you’re planning a trip after Atlantics, you might want to consider Vancouver ISland, B.C.   Martin

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Question:

Does anyone out there know anything about small trout lakes or spring-ponds in the Black Hills? I have heard rumors of good fishing there and would also like to see that part of the country. Thanks Forrest. flyfishing,packer football sports ingeneral

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A long, long time ago I caught numerous small brookies on a beaver pond in Litch (?) Creek in the Black hills. I think it was in about 1981. The Black Hills are worth the trip, even if you’re not fishing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone out there know anything about small trout lakes or spring-ponds in the Black Hills? I have heard rumors of good fishing there and would also like to see that part of the country. Thanks Forrest. flyfishing,packer football sports ingeneral

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Litch (?) Creek in the Black hills. I think it was in about 1981. The Black Hills are worth the trip, even if you’re not fishing.

Excuse my ignorance, but, what state are we talking about? South Dakota? John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS

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Question:

Does anyone out there know of any tide charts for the Boca Paila- Ascension Bay-Espiritu Santo Bay area?  Any idea what the correction factors are for the backcountry areas when you try to use a standard tide chart/program?  Any other useful info would be appreciated too. Please send private e-mail to: Thanks Jeff

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Jeff, if you will email me, I will send you the web address of an NOAA site that gives current water temperatures, sea height, wind, etc from bouys in Port Aransas and offshore in the Gulf. To date, I have not found a tide web site, but this comes close and is useful. I just don’t have the address on me at the moment.

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Could you please send me the address of the Yucatan Tide Charts. Just back from Ascension Bay and am returning next year. Thanks. Jack

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Does anyone out there know of any tide charts for the Boca Paila- Ascension Bay-Espiritu Santo Bay area?  Any idea what the correction factors are for the backcountry areas when you try to use a standard tide chart/program?  Any other useful info would be appreciated too. Please send private e-mail to: Thanks Jeff

Jeff, I would call Frontier Travel, 800/245-1950 and ask for Bill Gering.  They are the booking agent for Boca Paila Lodge and Casa Blanca Lodge ( Ascension Bay ) and Bill is their expert on the Yucatan area. I spent nine days in November this last fall and fished the whole area through different four lodges.  If you need any fishing info you can call us at 800/4000FLY. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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Question:

I am about ready to purchase a float tube but have recently seen adds for Pontoon Kick Boats.  Now I am really confused with so many options. I have tried a float tube and like it.  Is a kick boat really worth the additional cost or should I stay with the basics?  If I were to go with the kick boat, which model would give me the best performance for the cost?

I’v tried both ans still prefer the manueverability of a tube. Bob McDuffee Network Services Manager, WICHE Office:303.541.0299 Fax:303.541.0291

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Whether something is worth the cost is pretty subjective.  I bought a float tube for about $150 a couple of years ago.  It works just fine.   I’ve never been tempted by U-boats, kick boats, pontoon boats or whatever "this year’s greatest invention of the century" the manufacturers can think of.

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I stepped up to a pontoon boat (the Leigh) after wearing float tubes since the 70s.  I don’t plan to wear a float tube again.  Except for the weight, there’s no comparison in ease,etc.  Also on price.  The basic boat I have runs $325 — not much more than some tubes.  ’Course you can run that up considerably with oars and accessories.  I got the oars but seldom use them on stillwater unless I expect considerable wind. Dick Hubbard

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am about ready to purchase a float tube but have recently seen adds for Pontoon Kick Boats.  Now I am really confused with so many options. I have tried a float tube and like it.  Is a kick boat really worth the additional cost or should I stay with the basics?  If I were to go with the kick boat, which model would give me the best performance for the cost? I’v tried both ans still prefer the manueverability of a tube. Bob McDuffee Network Services Manager, WICHE Office:303.541.0299 Fax:303.541.0291 Hi I have fished with boats, they both have their advantages.U-BOATS are great for backbacking and small lakes.Were a kick boat is great with oars on large lakes but costs double the price of a u-boat

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Can’t beat the price and portability of a U-boat for small lakes. If going to fish large windy lakes or reservoirs-get a pontoon boat.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am about ready to purchase a float tube but have recently seen adds for Pontoon Kick Boats.  Now I am really confused with so many options. I have tried a float tube and like it.  Is a kick boat really worth the additional cost or should I stay with the basics?  If I were to go with the kick boat, which model would give me the best performance for the cost? I’v tried both ans still prefer the manueverability of a tube. Bob McDuffee Network Services Manager, WICHE Office:303.541.0299 Fax:303.541.0291 Hi I have fished with boats, they both have their advantages.U-BOATS are great for

backbacking and small lakes.Were a kick boat is great with oars on la I have a tube, a U-boat, and a pontoon boat.  After using the U-boat and pontoon, I think the tube is very awkward and can be dangerous in some situations.  The additional price for the U shape is absolutly worth the additinoal price.  Do not get a regular tube! The difference between a U-boat and a pontoon boat is less imporant, but significant.  The pontoon sits you up higher so you can cast farther and see more fish.  The pontoon is easier to manouver, except in a side-wind.  The pontoon is more stable and more comfortable, and many can accomodate a rowing frame. I have a Caddis tube, a Creek Company U-Boat, and a Super Cat pontoon boat. Tight lines. -Doug (Olympia WA)

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Bruce, I use a SuperCat 60 produced in the Seattle area after having used a float tube for several years.  I love the pontoon boat.  I stay warmer, its easier on my knees, and I have a rowing frame for windy or when-I’m-in-a-hurry conditions.  The only drawback I’ve seen other than slightly increased weight for packing in somewhere is the cost.  If you can afford it, I’d go pontoon boat.  If not, tubes are wonderful anyway.

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Hello, Due to a nice gift certificate I now can comment on two low-end pontoon boats. I have a JW Outfitters Osprey ($300 two years ago) and a new Bucks Bag Colt ($200 now). I highly recommend either the Uboat design or pontoon boats, simply because of the ease of entry/exit.  I consider it a matter both of convenience and Valuable Fishing Time.  It matters because we always seem to wait too long before heading for shore for those necessary short breaks; at these times every second counts (removing smells from waders was another thread). I have been using the JW Osprey for two full seasons and really like it. I have only used the Bucks Colt once but have a few comments on both.  I think both are excellent fishing platforms and well worth the price if you can afford them. The Osprey is bigger and higher, a true pontoon boat as only your legs touch the water.  The Bucks Colt is shorter, stubbier and lower; functionally not much different than a Uboat. The JW Osprey (their lowest cost model) seat is well above the water; it is feasible to go without waders in warm weather, though your butt will get wet from splash.  With the seat out of the water it is possible to go much faster because of less water resistance.  For the same reason it is blown around by the wind more.  It is also more difficult to kick without surface disturbance, which can be very important in the shallows. The seat on the JW is of mesh supported by an aluminum tube framework. Your thighs rest on the forward crosstube and this is uncomfortable at first; I got sore the first few times but have built up muscles there. You have to keep the straps very tight to keep the seat from sagging. Cramps and soreness are pretty common complaints from beginners with any float tube until you get the right muscles developed. Over about 80 – 100 days of use, the seat supports are wearing out and I have had to reinforce the seatback.  The seat doesn’t offer great back support. New models seem to have a more rugged seat but I’m not sure how well it supports. To really enjoy the Osprey it is important to really blow up the tubes and pull the straps tight. The JW Osprey can be taken down completely to the aluminum tube pieces, the seat web and the pontoons, so it can be more compact and individual pieces can be stashed wherever they fit so it is pretty packable in a duffle or suitcase. To assemble it from this stage takes about fifteen minutes including blowing it up. The Bucks has a molded plastic seat that is comfortable for me.  You sit just below the water level so you push a little surface when you paddle, so it’s top speed is more like a Vboat or Uboat. You’d be wet from the waist down without waders.  The rigid seat makes it less compact but it folds into about a 2′ square. It has more support in the lower back area and is very comfortable, even for a beginner, as long as your butt fits the molded seat. The Bucks has hypalon or some covering on the underside of the pontoon tubes, the JW outfitters shows a little abrasion wear on the nylon fabric (more expensive models of JW have hypalon coverings). The Bucks has more pocket space, though stuff in the big pocket in the seat gets wet. It can fold up compact with the tubes together after inflating and with add-on strappsd can be packed.  Both are of similar weight – around 10-15 lbs. The same straps can be used to carry the JW, but it is still about five feet wide  (JW has a "backpacker" model better for this). The only nuisance I found with the Bucks Colt was a lack of velcro tiedowns to secure the rod while changing flies, smoking etc.  I can easily add some.  And no stable deck on which to rest a beer – I set it in a pocket and the zipper holds it. If budget is your main concern, get any float tube and get started as it is an enjoyable way to fish, but if you can afford to get a pontoon boat. Mark Vinsel couch potato no, floating tuber yes Visit my gallery: http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.HTML

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I am about ready to purchase a float tube but have recently seen adds for Pontoon Kick Boats.  Now I am really confused with so many options. I have tried a float tube and like it.  Is a kick boat really worth the additional cost or should I stay with the basics?  If I were to go with the kick boat, which model would give me the best performance for the cost?

I have had a kick boat called a Waterwagon for about 15 years, and consider it ideal for flyfishing in lakes and ponds.  It is higher off the water than a float tube, and although I haven’t used any of the inflatable pontoon style kick boats, this seems like a superior design because of its rigidity, portability, and so on.  I don’t know if the WaterWagon company is still in business, but there are similar styles out there.  One was shown in a photo in this year’s magazine, FFing for Bass and Panfish. The waterwagon is a flat styrofoam "boat" about, 3×5′ and 6" thick, shaped like this:                           —        –                                            |  |      |  |                                            |  |      |  |        It is reinforced with aluminum pipe |    —–   | and the pipe reinforcing     is exposed in |      x     | front at the open end of the "U".  You sit |            | at the "x" with your flippered feet hanging       |            | in the water from about mid-shin  down.  Since only your|            | feet are in don’t wear waders in water down to about 55.  It weighs about 20 lbs., and is easy to carry over your shoulder, leaving the other hand free for rod and flippers.  It easily carries a small cooler, a second rod, etc., fits in the back of a pick up or is easy to car-top.      It is highly maneuverable, leaves both hands free to handle line and rod, keeps you up high out of the water so drooping backcasts are not a problem, and has nothing to catch your loose line on.  With good fins it is reasonably fast (a slow walking speed), and it is very stable.  I commonly cross a 300 yard arm of a local lake on it, and in an afternoon will often fish about a mile of shoreline, cross over and fish a mile or so back.      Any bass over about 3 lbs. will tow you around a bit.  Overall, I think it’s the best of all possible boats for lake and pond fishing!  It’s better that a bass boat with a trolling motor, because it leaves your hands completely free and still doesn’t put a bunch of stuff on the floor to tangle your line on.  It’s even better that having a partner paddle you in a canoe, because you are in complete control of how far or close to the bank you want to be. Mine cost around $200 10-12 years ago, and I wouldn’t bat hesitate spending 2 or 3 times that amount to replace it, since there is nothing that I know that compares to it for fishing convenience. The only drawbacks are that you move backwards and a right handed FFer will normally be most comfortable moving parallel to a shoreline fishing the left hand bank.  I spent a very frustating 10 minutes going in circles when I started using it, but got accustomed to manuvering it with my feet on the first trip and never thought about it since.   — University of Illinois at Springfield

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: I am about ready to purchase a float tube but have recently seen adds for : Pontoon Kick Boats.  Now I am really confused with so many options. : I have tried a float tube and like it.  Is a kick boat really worth the : additional cost or should I stay with the basics?  If I were to go with : the kick boat, which model would give me the best performance for the : cost? I have been using a kick boat for a few years now and I really like it.   They are better in a few ways.  You can go in shallower water.  You get less cold because you are not IN the water as much.  The casting platform is higher off the water so casting is a bit easier. I’d love to have one of the new commercial kick boats, they look REALLY nice! — Bruce Conner

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I am about ready to purchase a float tube but have recently seen adds for Pontoon Kick Boats.  Now I am really confused with so many options. I have tried a float tube and like it.  Is a kick boat really worth the additional cost or should I stay with the basics?  If I were to go with the kick boat, which model would give me the best performance for the cost?

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