Question:

Yesterday afternoon I wondered down the street to a pier on Lake Washington to test cast my new 3wt rod and reel. I didn’t intend to catch anything and low and behold, I didn’t. Had a great time casting the new rod though. As I was packing up to leave three guys joined me on the pier set up to baitcast for perch. It didn’t take them 1 cast a piece before they were reeling in 5-8 inch perch from approximately 35 feet down. They were using worms and chopped perch meat. My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend? Thanks for the info. Ryan

Response:

Yesterday afternoon I wondered down the street to a pier on Lake Washington to test cast my new 3wt rod and reel. I didn’t intend to catch anything and low and behold, I didn’t. Had a great time casting the new rod though. As I was packing up to leave three guys joined me on the pier set up to baitcast for perch. It didn’t take them 1 cast a piece before they were reeling in 5-8 inch perch from approximately 35 feet down.

DAMN!  That’s some fine fishin’ – catchin’ without even casting….<G They were using worms and chopped perch meat.

And if you wanted perch, may I ask why you didn’t do what they were doing? My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend?

Ones that look and smell like worms and chopped perch meat.   Seriously (and yes, I do mean this seriously), why bother, if the goal is catching those perch?  If the goal is simply experimenting to see if it can be done, then, yes, it can, but don’t confuse it with FF’ing (in the "traditional" sense).  It seems if you’re interested in catching perch, you’ve seen what works (and works remarkably well) for catching them.  I guess I don’t understand the desire to catch anything and everything on a fly rod.  Some things just don’t really lend themselves to "flyfishing" (as one normally thinks of FF’ing, and yes, I realize one can rig up something), and IMO, fishing that deep is one of them.  By the time you get rigged, you’re going to essentially combining bait-casting with a fly rod.   I suppose there’s nothing "wrong" with that, but why not just bait-cast with bait-casting gear, or if one is some kind of FF’ing-gear-only snot, just don’t fish for those things and live with the fact that if you’re gonna be a snot, you lose out. To me, it’s sorta like asking, "I saw a Porsche 996 racing on TV.  I have a Suburban/Camry/Ford sedan/Volvo station wagon/(some other unsuited vehicle).  Could I race like that?   Can I do something to my vehicle to make it work?"   Yeah, probably.  But again, why? (assuming the goal is racing, and not converting vehicles)  You can take out a screw with a butter knife and butter toast with a screwdriver, too, but why not just use the most appropriate and best-suited tool(s) for the task at hand? Thanks for the info.

Pretty sure it’s not the info you wanted, but you’re welcome. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ryan

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Well, if my geometry is right your going to have to cast out 53 feet of line to be at a 35 foot depth 35 feet from where you’re standing. Full sinking line? I’d try a clouser or better yet, a pearl chenille bead/cone head wooly buger. john

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Use the 5 wt rod and fish with little streamers. For example in summer at dog days a freind of mine uses a fly called Jule Trae and a sink tip. He always catches some perch. Good luck and tight lines Wim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yesterday afternoon I wondered down the street to a pier on Lake Washington to test cast my new 3wt rod and reel. I didn’t intend to catch anything and low and behold, I didn’t. Had a great time casting the new rod though. As I was packing up to leave three guys joined me on the pier set up to baitcast for perch. It didn’t take them 1 cast a piece before they were reeling in 5-8 inch perch from approximately 35 feet down. They were using worms and chopped perch meat. My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend? Thanks for the info. Ryan

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R- Points well taken. Thanks, Ryan -Snip-

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You can take out a screw with a butter knife and butter toast with a screwdriver, too, but why not just use the most appropriate and best-suited tool(s) for

Splendid. And thank you. You’ve covered more than fishing here. Sometimes it’s easy to forget the focus of the job at hand. Drew (with a callused spot on my forehead)

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I don’t know rdean may have somethin’ here.  I have several heavy weight flyrods, but perching on them just doesn’t sound like a good idea. Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can take out a screw with a butter knife and butter toast with a screwdriver, too, but why not just use the most appropriate and best-suited tool(s) for Splendid. And thank you. You’ve covered more than fishing here. Sometimes it’s easy to forget the focus of the job at hand. Drew (with a callused spot on my forehead)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yesterday afternoon I wondered down the street to a pier on Lake Washington to test cast my new 3wt rod and reel. I didn’t intend to catch anything and low and behold, I didn’t. Had a great time casting the new rod though. As I was packing up to leave three guys joined me on the pier set up to baitcast for perch. It didn’t take them 1 cast a piece before they were reeling in 5-8 inch perch from approximately 35 feet down. They were using worms and chopped perch meat. My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend? Thanks for the info. Ryan

In that location, worm dunking seems to be your only choice.  However, I’ve caught plenty of perch in the shallows using a two weight and beadhead nymphs.  They take very gently so sight fishing to them in clear water is best.  Small streamers should work too. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 I love to flyfish, but there’s a hell of a lot to be said for all kinds of fishing and I am of the personal opinion that we get dogmatic about using the flyrod even at times when it is simply not practical. I don’t guess whether you mean using fly rods on the B.A.S.S. pro tour?

Me feeling is that the fly rod might be the very best tool for the job under most conditions when bass are shallow. When bass are deep, we especially should not fish C&R for them, so this isn’t much of a quandary…. TBone

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I love to flyfish, but there’s a hell of a lot to be said for all kinds of fishing and I am of the personal opinion that we get dogmatic about using the flyrod even at times when it is simply not practical. We should not close our eyes to all other kinds of fishing, IMO. The perch are biting here, at Waneka, and I have been out with nightcrawlers and my dachsund Spork for three weekends in a row and we’ve been having a ball.

Um, are you sure Spork likes going out and having a ball with you and nightcrawlers?  If PETA (or, possibly, the Colorado State Police) finds out, you’re in BIG trouble…are you sure it isn’t illegal in Colorado, as it is in a number of the other several States… Oh, wait…did you mean you were FISHING with Spork?  Well, he must be about gone by now, and frankly, that’s pretty mean just for a few perch.  Whoda thunk dachshund were below perch on the food chain….

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<lake washington experiment snipped Drive over to Green Lake and fish dry flies off the pier for landlocked salmon instead. Bring a radio and listen to Niehaus do the Mariners playoff games. Ogle the joggers. Bring a bag of Tim’s Cajun chips. Have an Oberto Cocktail Pep. Bring a buncha BWOs. Watch out for the goose poop. – sid sometimes missing seattle

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…….Bring a bag of Tim’s Cajun chips…….

I knew it.  I just KNEW it!  First it’s fish, then it’s Dachshunds, and now Cajuns.  That’s just wrong!    :( Wolfgang

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…….Bring a bag of Tim’s Cajun chips……. I knew it.  I just KNEW it!  First it’s fish, then it’s Dachshunds, and now Cajuns.  That’s just wrong!    :( Wolfgang

It’s even worse. It is unethical. Herman

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I love to flyfish, but there’s a hell of a lot to be said for all kinds of fishing and I am of the personal opinion that we get dogmatic about using the flyrod even at times when it is simply not practical. We should not close our eyes to all other kinds of fishing, IMO. The perch are biting here, at Waneka, and I have been out with nightcrawlers and my dachsund Spork for three weekends in a row and we’ve been having a ball. Your pal, — TBone

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yesterday afternoon I wondered down the street to a pier on Lake Washington to test cast my new 3wt rod and reel. I didn’t intend to catch anything and low and behold, I didn’t. Had a great time casting the new rod though. As I was packing up to leave three guys joined me on the pier set up to baitcast for perch. It didn’t take them 1 cast a piece before they were reeling in 5-8 inch perch from approximately 35 feet down. They were using worms and chopped perch meat. My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend? Thanks for the info. Ryan

Response:

I love to flyfish, but there’s a hell of a lot to be said for all kinds of fishing and I am of the personal opinion that we get dogmatic about using the flyrod even at times when it is simply not practical. We should not close our eyes to all other kinds of fishing, IMO.

Can’t argue that, but then there’s always the challenge of doing something the hard way The perch are biting here, at Waneka, and I have been out with nightcrawlers and my dachsund Spork for three weekends in a row and we’ve been having a ball.

"Spork", eh? Perfect. /daytripper (I shoulda known

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I knew it.  I just KNEW it!  First it’s fish, then it’s Dachshunds, and now Cajuns.  That’s just wrong!    :(

Dang, I missed it again!  What’s wrong with Dachshunds?

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I knew it.  I just KNEW it!  First it’s fish, then it’s Dachshunds, and now Cajuns.  That’s just wrong!    :( Dang, I missed it again!  What’s wrong with Dachshunds?

Well, aside from a reputed susceptibility to back problems and the usual unsavory canine hygiene practices, not a thing that I can think of.  It’s the Cajuns that stick in my craw. Wolfgang

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  It’s the Cajuns that stick in my craw.

Try cutting them up into smaller pieces, and chewing them a little longer. hth, Kevin, hoping you didn’t misspell "cojones"

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[snip] Well, aside from a reputed susceptibility to back problems and the usual unsavory canine hygiene practices, not a thing that I can think of.  It’s the Cajuns that stick in my craw. Wolfgang

1. Let me report that you may remove the word "reputed" from the above.  I have 2 Dachshunds, 1 with a "slipped disc" that has caused her to lose partial movement in her rear legs. 2. What kind of ‘unsavory canine hygience practices’ could you be referring to?  You mean when they drag all sorts of dead (either that they’ve killed, or just found) rodents to my door?  You mean when they kill a rat and decide to *eat* half of it, and bring me the legs (you know those little bones just irritate their gums)?  You mean smelling around for dog crap and then eating it (no, it never happens, really) if it really smells ‘good’? You mean…well, I think I get the picture… Rob p.s. got a craw stuck in my teeth at the last Cajun festival..:)

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…..got a craw stuck in my teeth at the last Cajun festival..:)

Hm….this could lead to all sorts of recursive ruminations. Wolfgang where’s max smart when you really need him?

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—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 I love to flyfish, but there’s a hell of a lot to be said for all kinds of fishing and I am of the personal opinion that we get dogmatic about using the flyrod even at times when it is simply not practical.

I don’t guess whether you mean using fly rods on the B.A.S.S. pro tour? – — "Armchair warriors often fail, and we’ve been  poisoned by these fairy tales" -Don Henley —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7zSGtrpli/675/DERAlGdAKCDXQHl4/+d80An8f3CJfvXyzMdmACeNJy3 7Gq+de7flkgrCo01m39YZXA= =Ropa —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

Response:

The perch are biting here, at Waneka, and I have been out with nightcrawlers and my dachsund Spork for three weekends in a row and we’ve been having a ball.

Sure you can eat perch with a dachshund Spork, but why not use the right tool for the job?

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I don’t know rdean may have somethin’ here.  I have several heavy weight flyrods, but perching on them just doesn’t sound like a good idea. Op

Not in ten feet of water.. but they are a lot of fun to fish for in the shallows! Herman

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yesterday afternoon I wondered down the street to a pier on Lake Washington to test cast my new 3wt rod and reel. I didn’t intend to catch anything and low and behold, I didn’t. Had a great time casting the new rod though. As I was packing up to leave three guys joined me on the pier set up to baitcast for perch. It didn’t take them 1 cast a piece before they were reeling in 5-8 inch perch from approximately 35 feet down. They were using worms and chopped perch meat. My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend? Thanks for the info.

well, as others have said, it might be tough reaching where the conventional anglers were fishing with light tackle… but in lake washington there are places to catch them in shallower water. when i was a kid, i was a perch killing maniac at lake washington.  i fished the wooden bridges at the walking trails near the arboreum (you can see them driving the 520 bridge).  i fished small jigs tipped with a chunk of worm, but i don’t doubt that a small white wooley bugger with a conehead, beadhead, or weighted eyes would work.  i did best around some of the sunken timber near the edges…. but it has been awhile.  and i also did best in july and august. give it a shot, and there’s nothing like fishing next to a bridge jammed with rush hour traffic (which now is almost all day). chris

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I wouldn’t fish for them with a fly rod in that situation.  5 weight with a sink tip probably wouldn’t reach them.  Maybe with a Clouser Minnow. In shallow water I’ve caught lots of perch that size with nymphs and small streamers (Clousers, marabou Thundercreeks).  And perch more than twice that size on the streamers.  Fun with a 3 weight. Glenn << My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend? << Ryan GKT

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Question:

Kudo’s Stan…. The site looks great. –Walt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Site is fixed.  There was a single character error in the last line. *** (for HTML weenies only) I had a ‘?’ instead of a ” closing the table tag.  Apparently got added late yesterday as I was doing last minute editing and IE doesn’t care about closing the table, but Netscape pukes on it. ***end of weenie section Thanks for the feedback guys. Stan, I don’t see any links…. I’m using netscape 4.72. Works fine with IE 5.5. — Charlie… I can see it in IE, but not Netscape also. Kevin

– Ezflyfish.com: http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://www.amazon.com/shops/blueridgebooks

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, it seems that the page is "picky" about browsers and/or Java(Script), or ???.  I don’t get anything but the .jpg of Paul’s tying table and the text block below – no links, etc..  FWIW, why must such pages have "tricks" that require specific browsers, etc.  With commercial sites, IMO, it’s insane, business-wise, but with "shared info" sites, it’s annoying and possibly/probably restricts those who can see it, which seems to be in direct conflict with the point of the site. It doesn’t use any tricks at all.  No JavaScript, no nonsense.  The site *is* database driven so we can set up a site with 40 flies quickly – one template for each of three different page styles, with all details (fly info, tyer’s name, links to the pictures) filled from database lookups.  The script runs on the server and dishes out clean simple HTML that should run on any browser. Can you tell me if you see an error message below the line under the intro text?  Does it say something like ‘too many database connections’ or something similar?  If so, try again later – the free server this is on has just recently updated it’s database server and there have been problems all week.  Sorry, but that’s what we get for free.  I’m hoping to move this to a better server very soon. –Stan

It’s now running fine, thanks, and it looks great – a "well done!" to both you and Paul for your efforts, and to the tyers for a great bunch of flies.   To the tyers: all look great and a job well done.  If Stan is so disposed, maybe the tiers could send names and recipes for those missing?  I noticed some had recipes and some didn’t, and I’d bet I’m not the only one who would like to see all the recipes, esp. on the personal patterns. TC, R

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Stan, thank you Wim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Congratulations to both of you, a really good job. Stan, I recognized the spelling of my name. Could you please do me a favour and change Muschok to Mischok? Thanks Wim Paul Goodwin has shot some nice pics of flies from the PNW Swap and I did a lot of reframing and sharpening on his old FS2000 pics.  The site is up and running and ready for the FS2001 pictures as soon as Frank sends the flies out next week. See the ROFF Swap site at www.roff.f2s.com Comments are welcome. –Stan

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Paul Goodwin has shot some nice pics of flies from the PNW Swap and I did a lot of reframing and sharpening on his old FS2000 pics.  The site is up and running and ready for the FS2001 pictures as soon as Frank sends the flies out next week.

——- The photographs and presentations are wonderful!  How did you ever get those tiny flies to photography so clear?  Thanks to Paul and Stan for all their hard work on our behalf… — Padishar Creel "Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft…and the only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor." –  Wernher von Braun

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Another great page for information on a great place for fly fishing. Not to mention it’s the home of the 50 pound stripper. Lots of great pics. http://www.geocities.com/virginiasbestkeptsecret/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Congratulations to both of you, a really good job. Stan, I recognized the spelling of my name. Could you please do me a favour and change Muschok to Mischok? Thanks Wim Paul Goodwin has shot some nice pics of flies from the PNW Swap and I did a lot of reframing and sharpening on his old FS2000 pics.  The site is up and running and ready for the FS2001 pictures as soon as Frank sends the flies out next week. See the ROFF Swap site at www.roff.f2s.com Comments are welcome. –Stan

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Not to mention it’s the home of the 50 pound stripper.

Virginia’s best kept secret is a 50 pound stripper? Did Vern move out from Vegas and start a new act, or something? – sid banishing the thought

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You got’em clod Sid.  Sure wish I had caught that one! Opie  –the porcupine kid–

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not to mention it’s the home of the 50 pound stripper. Virginia’s best kept secret is a 50 pound stripper? Did Vern move out from Vegas and start a new act, or something? – sid banishing the thought

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Paul Goodwin has shot some nice pics of flies from the PNW Swap and I did a lot of reframing and sharpening on his old FS2000 pics.  The site is up and running and ready for the FS2001 pictures as soon as Frank sends the flies out next week. See the ROFF Swap site at www.roff.f2s.com Comments are welcome. –Stan

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….Comments are welcome.

The bug sitting on the Rube Goldberg solar system model thingy in the foreground is obviously in robust good health, as is made evident by it’s alert posture.  Those in the background have evidently succumbed to ethanol fumes.  I think there is a lesson here for all of us. Wolfgang

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Paul Goodwin has shot some nice pics of flies from the PNW Swap and I did a lot of reframing and sharpening on his old FS2000 pics.  The site is up and running and ready for the FS2001 pictures as soon as Frank sends the flies out next week. See the ROFF Swap site at www.roff.f2s.com Comments are welcome. –Stan

Well, it seems that the page is "picky" about browsers and/or Java(Script), or ???.  I don’t get anything but the .jpg of Paul’s tying table and the text block below – no links, etc..  FWIW, why must such pages have "tricks" that require specific browsers, etc.  With commercial sites, IMO, it’s insane, business-wise, but with "shared info" sites, it’s annoying and possibly/probably restricts those who can see it, which seems to be in direct conflict with the point of the site. TC R

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Could be.But that wine glass looks like my shirt one evening when the mayflies were hatching. —  Don Thompson Another of the Thompson Boys

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Paul Goodwin has shot some nice pics of flies from the PNW Swap and I did a lot of reframing and sharpening on his old FS2000 pics.  The site is up and running and ready for the FS2001 pictures as soon as Frank sends the flies out next week. See the ROFF Swap site at www.roff.f2s.com Comments are welcome. –Stan Well, it seems that the page is "picky" about browsers and/or Java(Script), or ???.  I don’t get anything but the .jpg of Paul’s tying table and the text block below – no links, etc..  FWIW, why must such pages have "tricks" that require specific browsers, etc.  With commercial sites, IMO, it’s insane, business-wise, but with "shared info" sites, it’s annoying and possibly/probably restricts those who can see it, which seems to be in direct conflict with the point of the site. TC R

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Mayflies that look like black ghosts???

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could be.But that wine glass looks like my shirt one evening when the mayflies were hatching. —  Don Thompson Another of the Thompson Boys Paul Goodwin has shot some nice pics of flies from the PNW Swap and I did a lot of reframing and sharpening on his old FS2000 pics.  The site is up and running and ready for the FS2001 pictures as soon as Frank sends the flies out next week. See the ROFF Swap site at www.roff.f2s.com Comments are welcome. –Stan Well, it seems that the page is "picky" about browsers and/or Java(Script), or ???.  I don’t get anything but the .jpg of Paul’s tying table and the text block below – no links, etc..  FWIW, why must such pages have "tricks" that require specific browsers, etc.  With commercial sites, IMO, it’s insane, business-wise, but with "shared info" sites, it’s annoying and possibly/probably restricts those who can see it, which seems to be in direct conflict with the point of the site. TC R

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 Nope. The density of the "critters"  hehe  My shirt,cap,jeans,everything was a near solid mass of Mayflies. —  Don Thompson Another of the Thompson Boys

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mayflies that look like black ghosts??? Could be.But that wine glass looks like my shirt one evening when the mayflies were hatching. —  Don Thompson Another of the Thompson Boys

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Well, it seems that the page is "picky" about browsers and/or Java(Script), or ???.  I don’t get anything but the .jpg of Paul’s tying table and the text block below – no links, etc..  FWIW, why must such pages have "tricks" that require specific browsers, etc.  With commercial sites, IMO, it’s insane, business-wise, but with "shared info" sites, it’s annoying and possibly/probably restricts those who can see it, which seems to be in direct conflict with the point of the site.

It doesn’t use any tricks at all.  No JavaScript, no nonsense.  The site *is* database driven so we can set up a site with 40 flies quickly – one template for each of three different page styles, with all details (fly info, tyer’s name, links to the pictures) filled from database lookups.  The script runs on the server and dishes out clean simple HTML that should run on any browser. Can you tell me if you see an error message below the line under the intro text?  Does it say something like ‘too many database connections’ or something similar?  If so, try again later – the free server this is on has just recently updated it’s database server and there have been problems all week.  Sorry, but that’s what we get for free.  I’m hoping to move this to a better server very soon. –Stan

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The last line of text was: "This page was designed and programmed (using PHP and MySQL) by Stan Gula. Please post any comments on ROFF." This was followed by a plane line. There seemed to be no way to get to any other pages. Willi

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Paul Goodwin has shot some nice pics of flies from the PNW Swap and I did a lot of reframing and sharpening on his old FS2000 pics.  The site is up and running and ready for the FS2001 pictures as soon as Frank sends the flies out next week. See the ROFF Swap site at www.roff.f2s.com Comments are welcome. –Stan

Stan, I don’t see any links…. I’m using netscape 4.72. –Walt — Ezflyfish.com: http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://www.amazon.com/shops/blueridgebooks

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Paul Goodwin has shot some nice pics of flies from the PNW Swap and I did a lot of reframing and sharpening on his old FS2000 pics.  The site is up and running and ready for the FS2001 pictures as soon as Frank sends the flies out next week. See the ROFF Swap site at www.roff.f2s.com Comments are welcome. –Stan Stan, I don’t see any links…. I’m using netscape 4.72.

Works fine with IE 5.5. — Charlie…

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Stan, I don’t see any links…. I’m using netscape 4.72. Works fine with IE 5.5. — Charlie…

I can see it in IE, but not Netscape also. Kevin

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I have a simple three row table under that line and I’m checking it out in Netscape.  Thanks for the feedback everybody.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stan, I don’t see any links…. I’m using netscape 4.72. Works fine with IE 5.5. — Charlie… I can see it in IE, but not Netscape also. Kevin

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Site is fixed.  There was a single character error in the last line. *** (for HTML weenies only) I had a ‘?’ instead of a ” closing the table tag.  Apparently got added late yesterday as I was doing last minute editing and IE doesn’t care about closing the table, but Netscape pukes on it. ***end of weenie section Thanks for the feedback guys.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stan, I don’t see any links…. I’m using netscape 4.72. Works fine with IE 5.5. — Charlie… I can see it in IE, but not Netscape also. Kevin

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Site is fixed.  

Indeed it is.  It looks great.  Thanks, Kevin

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Good job, Stan. Very nice site. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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Congratulations to both of you, a really good job. Stan, I recognized the spelling of my name. Could you please do me a favour and change Muschok to Mischok? Thanks Wim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Paul Goodwin has shot some nice pics of flies from the PNW Swap and I did a lot of reframing and sharpening on his old FS2000 pics.  The site is up and running and ready for the FS2001 pictures as soon as Frank sends the flies out next week. See the ROFF Swap site at www.roff.f2s.com Comments are welcome. –Stan

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That’s what makes Netscape the best platform for testing pages.. Never mind Stan, great job well done. Cheers, Herman Site is fixed.  There was a single character error in the last line. *** (for HTML weenies only) I had a ‘?’ instead of a ” closing the table tag.  Apparently got added late yesterday as I was doing last minute editing and IE doesn’t care about closing the table, but Netscape pukes on it. ***end of weenie section Thanks for the feedback guys.

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

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Paul Goodwin has shot some nice pics of flies from the PNW Swap and I did a lot of reframing and sharpening on his old FS2000 pics.  The site is up and running and ready for the FS2001 pictures as soon as Frank sends the flies out next week. See the ROFF Swap site at www.roff.f2s.com Comments are welcome. –Stan

Nice job Stan!   Thanks and my appreciation to both you and Paul. Frank (up to my arse in packages) Church

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Visit our Web Site at http://www.angelfire.com/bc2/jerifly Merry Christmas jeri

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 The Best Fly Swap you will ever Join  Visit our Web Site at  http://www.angelfire.com/bc2/jerifly  Merry Christmas  jeri

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Question:

Could anyone out there tell me what you need to preserve feathers? A friend told me that you could preserve them with borax.  We have not yet been able to come up with a mixture ratio for this material.  Are there other preservatives which could be used? First task is to remove all fat or flesh from the skin.  When this is done, some tyers do not bother with any preservative, since they are not going to use the skin for any purpose, i.e. it does not need to stay flexible.

No, but it does need to be bug resistant.  I find that soaking bird or mammal skins in a saturated borax solution* and then drying them in a tray full of borax bug-proofs them without the use of anything smelly or toxic. *Fill a pail with hot water.  Add borax (plain unscented washing soda) and stir.  Keep adding borax until no more will dissolve.  Cool to room temperature. Soak your skins. Keep your stick on the ice, Thos.

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Could anyone out there tell me what you need to preserve feathers?

snip….. snip…. No, but it does need to be bug resistant.  I find that soaking bird or mammal skins in a saturated borax solution* and then drying them in a tray full of borax bug-proofs them without the use of anything smelly or toxic. *Fill a pail with hot water.  Add borax (plain unscented washing soda) and stir.  Keep adding borax until no more will dissolve.  Cool to room temperature. Soak your skins.

Here’s another method that has worked well for me. Scrape all fat off the underside of the skin. Tack the skin to a board or piece of cardboard with the feathers down. Make sure the feathers are dry and arranged the way you want them before you do this. Sprinkle dry borax on the scraped skin surface covering all exposed skin. Be generous with the Borax. It will absorb water out of the skin. I kind of pile it on. Let it sit out for a few days to a few weeks. I don’t know the minimum time because I often set these out in the garage or basement and forget them for a while. A low humidity area would be best. When the skin is crinkly dry, untack it and brush off the borax and you are done. For a final treatment, put it in a plastic baggy and run it through several freeze-thaw cycles in order to kill any remaining resident insects. Cheers. Jon

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I’ve used footpowder to "cure" moose hide and it really works. Don’t see why it wouldn’t do the same thing on capes :O)  It’s also inexpesive and goes a long ways. Keith P

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could anyone out there tell me what you need to preserve feathers? A friend told me that you could preserve them with borax.  We have not yet been able to come up with a mixture ratio for this material.  Are there other preservatives which could be used? Also,  I would like to dye some of the capes.  Have heard that you should dye at the same time the felts are being cured? Any information on this procedure would be very appreciated. Trout Bum.

I just use plain old course salt.  Just spread the salt generously over the hyde and lay out in the sun, feather side down of course.  The saly draws out the moisture and the sun evaporates it.  After the skin is dry I shake off the excess salt then dust with talcum powder.  I still have pelts from pheasant season of two years ago, works great for me.                                                         Spy in Hawaii

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Could anyone out there tell me what you need to preserve feathers? A friend told me that you could preserve them with borax.  We have not yet been able to come up with a mixture ratio for this material.  Are there other preservatives which could be used?

Hi BB, Years ago, I had some young customers that would go to the local live stock auction and bid on old roosters. They said they paid about $2 to $3 for live birds. They killed and skinned them. They tacked the skins feather side down, skin side up on a wood surface. They used salt to dry up and cure the skins. After they are real dry and stiff, I would put them into an airtight container or a big zip lock bag. As far as dying the feathers goes, you can use Rite or Vinyards(sp) dye. It is an art and not many do it well. The skin/feathers have to be clean, de-greased and moistened to except the dye. You put the dye into water and control the temperature so as to not ‘burn’ or ‘cook’ the feathers. I think we added something like rubbing alcohol to set the dye? You need very white hackle if you are looking for bright colors. Black is very hard to get. It can turn out purple. I hear about ‘cold’ dying processes. Good luck and have fun. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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Hi, The method I used to preserve some pheasant skins was to scrape off as much fat as possible with a *non-serated edge* butter knife, stretch out and tack the skin feather side down, rub out and let dry with rock salt (usually 2 or 3 applications) and finally to cover the remaining almost-clean skin with borax. Then I let it dry in the garage for about 2 weeks.   Then I put them in a zip-lock bag.  Still have some of one skin left after ~12 years.

**SNIP** As far as dying the feathers goes, you can use Rite or Vinyards(sp) dye. It is an art and not many do it well. The skin/feathers have to be clean, de-greased and moistened to except the dye. You put the dye into water and control the temperature so as to not ‘burn’ or ‘cook’ the feathers. I think we added something like rubbing alcohol to set the dye? You need very white hackle if you are looking for bright colors. Black is very hard to get. It can turn out purple. I hear about ‘cold’ dying processes. Good luck and have fun.

To get a decent black with RIT dye you also have to add some brown into the mix.  Added a bit of Vinegar to set the dye (insturctions on the package). Like Bill said, you have to be careful with the temperatures (use a candy thermometer) or you can ruin some great feathers.   This is a very messy process but is worth the effort if you can’t get what you need locally and you can dye a bunch of stuff at once.  A.K. Best has a book out on dying materials that is quite good if your interested.                                   Good Fishing,                                         Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools Mt. Shasta Fly Fishing Schools http://www.thegrid.net/flyfish

Response:

Could anyone out there tell me what you need to preserve feathers? A friend told me that you could preserve them with borax.  We have not yet been able to come up with a mixture ratio for this material.  Are there other preservatives which could be used? Also,  I would like to dye some of the capes.  Have heard that you should dye at the same time the felts are being cured?   Any information on this procedure would be very appreciated. Trout Bum.

Response:

Could anyone out there tell me what you need to preserve feathers? A friend told me that you could preserve them with borax.  We have not yet been able to come up with a mixture ratio for this material.  Are there other preservatives which could be used?

First task is to remove all fat or flesh from the skin.  When this is done, some tyers do not bother with any preservative, since they are not going to use the skin for any purpose, i.e. it does not need to stay flexible. Also,  I would like to dye some of the capes.  Have heard that you should dye at the same time the felts are being cured?  

See Eric Leiser’s Fly Tying Materials (1973) or other books.  The main points seem to be preliminary rinse with a mordant, to maximize dye’s effect, and then control of temperature to avoid cooking (the way egg white is transformed by high temperature.) — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Question:

Watched the temp go up to 50 degrees today.  Out to the back porch and cleaned my fly line, new leader, a couple of casts into the snow in my yard, and smoked an LGC Corona Gorda.  Sunday on to the Malad River for some march(spring) fishing!!  God, it’s great to see the sun shine and the snow start to melt.  And yes it was a good cigar! Doug

        well, ol doug, it was just about the same temp here in the old north state, several degrees in latitude to your south; but the feelings were just the same.  the phoenix.  here we go again, by god.         wayne harrison

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Watched the temp go up to 50 degrees today.  Out to the back porch and cleaned my fly line, new leader, a couple of casts into the snow in my yard, and smoked an LGC Corona Gorda.  Sunday on to the Malad River for some march(spring) fishing!!  God, it’s great to see the sun shine and the snow start to melt.  And yes it was a good cigar! Doug — Doug & Tammy Stephens Bear Lake Valley, Idaho

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Question:

I would like to fly from Aruba to Venezuela and stay in Maracaibo. I need info on Maracaibo and a place to stay. Please write if you can help me. Thanks.

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You could probably charter a fishing boat, fih your way across and schedule a return cheaper than flying.  <GRIN On my last trip we went fishing and were within swiming distance of Venezula.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I would like to fly from Aruba to Venezuela and stay in Maracaibo. I need info on Maracaibo and a place to stay. Please write if you can help me. Thanks.

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Hi, I am planning a ~7 day trip to Venezuela shortly. I’d like to get a glimpse of the country but will probably only have time for the coast – Merida, the mountains, the Amazon, etc. will have to wait for next time. I’ll only have time to either head east of Caracas, or west of Caracas – which is more interesting? I’d rather stay away from super-touristy-commercialized places. Also, I understand the security in situation in the Caracas is less than good. How are things outside the city – can a gringo (who speaks Spanish) survive? I know things always look and sound worse from the outside. Thanks a bunch, Aviv

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I think is too late to respond, you are probably here… Visit East side. And yes, you can survive outside Caracas. I know things always look and sound worse from the outside.

It’s true, but be carefull. A Dios J Alberto  ccs-ve — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am planning a ~7 day trip to Venezuela shortly. I’d like to get a glimpse of the country but will probably only have time for the coast – Merida, the mountains, the Amazon, etc. will have to wait for next time. I’ll only have time to either head east of Caracas, or west of Caracas – which is more interesting? I’d rather stay away from super-touristy-commercialized places. Also, I understand the security in situation in the Caracas is less than good. How are things outside the city – can a gringo (who speaks Spanish) survive? I know things always look and sound worse from the outside. Thanks a bunch, Aviv

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Question:

Hi everybody, As promised on our web site, you can now have a look on the report about the Fly Fishing World Championship which occured in Jackson hole in september. http://www.infonie.com/public_html/rccb/index.htm

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Hi everybody, As promised on our web site, you can now have a look on the report about the Fly Fishing World Championship which occured in Jackson hole in september. http://www.infonie.com/public_html/rccb/index.htm

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Question:

Does anyone have any information on the conditions of the rivers in the Crested Butte area?

Joe Butler says that both Taylor and Gunnison rivers have been fishing well. He says to use "Egg Flies, Carpet Egg Flies, Mysis Shrimp, Sonefiles, tan shrimp, olive shrimp and orange shrimp. San Juan Worms will pick up a few fish also, as will the 20-incher pattern." "As the water rises from the bigger releases from the dams," says Butler, "the orange shrimp and the San Juans become more effectivbe. Why? Because shrimp that die when they come through the dams turn orange. These free floating morsels of food are easy pickens for the trout below." "The San Juan Worms get lots of attention as the river rises, mainly because the banks along the stream’s edge are getting washed into the river." — |    Liberty Communications — Michael P. Thompson      | |  Writing, editing, desktop publishing, consulting     | |      <http://www.ecentral.com/members/thompson       |

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Does anyone have any information on the conditions of the rivers in the Crested Butte area? Thanks and Regards, Steve

I am planning a colo kayak/fly fish vacation and may be too early as i am forced to go july 17 to 31.  I have been watching the following page like a hawk and the levels are not about to let up !!  only good for kayakers with a death wish! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -http://webserver.cr.usgs.gov/station_data/co_realtime/html/current_li…<<<

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I am planning a colo kayak/fly fish vacation and may be too early as i am forced to go july 17 to 31.  I have been watching the following page like a hawk and the levels are not about to let up !!  only good for kayakers with a death wish!

I’m confident that Colorado rivers will be down and quite fishable by mid July.  Early July is more dubious for fishing (but is probably a better time for floating). — -Wayne Trzyna

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Does anyone have any information on the conditions of the rivers in the Crested Butte area? Thanks and Regards, Steve

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Does anyone have any information on the conditions of the rivers in the Crested Butte area?

It looks like most rivers in Colorado are going to remain blown-out until well into July. — -Wayne Trzyna

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that said, it would still be my *earnest* recommendation to blow off all of the places you’ve ever heard about, get in the car, get a map and head to those places that are green on the map with lots of x’s (indicating BIG mountain peaks) and blues (rivers, lakes and creeks).  Don’t get to hung up on a spot unless you really like it…inquire in the local stores, buy something…plan to hike to your spot…you might find something you weren’t even looking for. Your pal, TimW

   I agree 1000% . It may take a few trips to find what you like, but it’s well worth the "work" !!!   Harry   (See Tim, we don’t always disagree g<)

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Hello All!     Planning a trip with my brother and son the first of August to do some primitive camping and fly fishing.  My brother lives in Denver and we will be launching the "expedition" from his house. <G     What I would like to know is how are the rivers running so far.  My brother and I fished both the Frying Pan and the South Platte two or three times last year, and didn’t do very well at either one.     Ideally we would want someplace that isn’t heavily fished or camped, but where we have a better than even chance of catching a few fish.  We can four wheel it, or some hiking is not out of the question (son just got out of Marine Corps training and we can use him as a mule <G).  Gold Medal Water fishing is not needed, as fishing Gold Metal Water didn’t really help us last year.     Open to suggestions. K. — |Fidonet:  K. Lindholm 1:285/43 | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.

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[deleted] Corps training and we can use him as a mule <G).  Gold Medal Water fishing is not needed, as fishing Gold Metal Water didn’t really help us last year.     Open to suggestions.

the gold medal water in colorado generally has a lot of fish…sometimes they just get pucker-headed in August (or anytime…directly proportional to the amount of time, money and planning invested in the trip)….when it warms up…on the other hand, if you nail it just right it can be awesome.   that said, it would still be my *earnest* recommendation to blow off all of the places you’ve ever heard about, get in the car, get a map and head to those places that are green on the map with lots of x’s (indicating BIG mountain peaks) and blues (rivers, lakes and creeks).  Don’t get to hung up on a spot unless you really like it…inquire in the local stores, buy something…plan to hike to your spot…you might find something you weren’t even looking for. Your pal, TimW

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Question:

Any recommendations for the Stillwater the second week in July.  Looking for fly patterns and access points. Thanks! Don Albrecht

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I am going to fish the Stillwater River in Montana the second week in July. Any suggestions on flys and access points? I may have sent this message twice, since I’m new to the network and still learning! Sorry if someone sees it as a repeat. Don Donald Albrecht

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onald Albrecht write: : :I am going to fish the Stillwater River in Montana the second :week in :July. Any suggestions on flys and access points? : on : Don, There is a flyshop in Whitefish, Montana where I am sure you can get sound advice. Unfortunately, I can’t remember the name of the shop. Someone else here probably knows of it. Whitefish, by the way, is a delightful little town. If you have time, definitely drive to the Kootnai River. If I remember correctly its only about 90 minutes from the Whitefish-Kalispell area and it is northwest Montana’s best trout stream. Tim

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Any recommendations for the Stillwater the second week in July.  Looking for fly patterns and access points. Thanks! Don Albrecht

Back in ‘81 I had a great time staying at the Stillwater Valley Ranch outside of Nye Montana. They also ran an operation known as "Montana School of Flyfishing." It was owned by the Moat family, and was a real nice place for the novice or experienced fisherman. My understanding was most of the land on the river was private and protected (at that time) rather jealously by the ranchers. Haven’t kept track of the Moats, but don’t see their ad anymore in the mags. Best to check with the DNR for info and access, or see if these guys still have their place. Kevin Williams

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Kootnai river is definately some of the best FF in Montana – actually world class.  It is located near Libby MT, way up in the north west corner. As far as the stillwater is concerned, it is *ok*. As far as the FF shop in Whitefish, It is called "One Season Fly Fishing Shop" and the phone number is (406) 862-1298. Other inquiries about Montana FF are welcomed, reply to Jeff

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Question:

Apart from all the other advantages, hand tied leaders offer two distinct advantages for me.         1. I seem to present the fly better with a hand tied leader         2. One of cost, they are distinctly cheaper.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1. Can you recommend a [in the surf] leader formula for 1/0-3/0 flies perch, stripers are the prize The Lefty Kreh/Mark Sosin book Practical Fishing Knots II gives a good methodology for constructing saltwater leaders. I use all Mason hard mono for my saltwater leaders, which I tie in the methods suggested in Kreh/Sosin. (i.e. Surgeon’s loops, bimini twists, huffnagle knots, etc.) 2. Can you surfcasters get anecdotal about your line selection (i.e. what is better in waves… a 30′ shooting head attached to mono? or a 30′ head attached to some floating line? 3.This mono curled like Harpo Marx in my shooting basket. I would think some real fly line (like my 7 wt 444 sinking line) would at least lay flat in the bottom of my basket. thanks for the know-how Check out the Teeny running lines. They’re made of limp, braided material which doesn’t curl up and will shoot through the guides easily in case it gets tangled. They’re neutrally-bouyant rather than high-floating like floating fly lines. I like them better than the level fly line-type running lines, but they’re a bit pricey. (Cope & McPheter’s carries them in the Bay area…) Regards, Fred

One word of caution about both braided shooting line and level flyline for use in the surf. These lines can pick up particles of sand and abrade both your guides and your fly rod.  It depends upon the nature of the beach, but under the right conditions you can ruin a fly rod in one outing. However under some circumstances these shooting lines can work great. Ian Walker

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1. Can you recommend a [in the surf] leader formula for 1/0-3/0 flies perch, stripers are the prize

I had the same problem with weighted clousers of that size and still have the bumps on the back of my head to prove it! Someone replied to my post on this matter and suggested that I try using a shorter leader while someone else replied suggesting that I use a uniform diameter mono leader that is relatively stiff. I tried combining the suggestions by attaching a three foot section of 12#test Berkely Big Game to the end of my Fenwick 9wt WF intermediate sinking line. The fly moved better in the air during false casts, but the mono just couldn’t turn over the fly for a straight presentation. Not that the presentation is essential for the fish, but it helps to keep the line from fouling even before I start stripping. This worked a bit better when I dropped the fly size down to a #2 clouser, but it didn’t solve my original problem. Longer mono sections proved worse in practice and shorter tapered leaders didn’t do it either. I’m still stumped. I recently purchased a 12wt for fishing rougher surf on the south shore of Long Island and was sort of hoping that the line weight increase would help in this situation (I’ll be casting some heavy epoxy flys too). Too bad…. 3.This mono curled like Harpo Marx in my shooting basket. I would think some real fly line (like my 7 wt 444 sinking line) would at least lay flat in the bottom of my basket.

Are you using the collapsable variety or the dishpan with/without mono fingers? I use the collapsable and thought that was the problem. Then I fished with another salty flyrodder who had the dishpan (without mono fingers) and he had the same problem…. HH&TL,       Jose

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think that being easier to tie is the ONLY possible advantage that the surgeons knot has over the blood. From my informal tests, I believe the blood knot to be stronger.  Your mileage may vary, but I’d think that there would be a definite answer to this question.  Namely: which is stronger a properly tied blood or properly tied surgeons knot. I have found the surgeons knot superior when the diameters of the two lines differs by more than a few x’s.  This happens mostly when I use a knotless leader and have changed flies a few times too often. I’ve found the blood knot clearly superior when the diameters are nearly the same…as they are when I’m tying my on leaders.  They don’t take long to tie, either, once you get the hang of it.  My biggest problem with the blood knot: I can’t tie it while smoking my pipe!

I am sorry that I did not state this exception in my initial post.  I definitely agree that when the diameters are quite different, I have a difficult time getting a blood knot to hold.  I generally use 3 wraps on each side of the knot, but I will use possibly 5 wraps when tying different size diameters together.  I should possibly consider the surgeons knot in this instance. I am happy to hear someone else who doesn’t think the blood knot is hard to tie.  It is simple: a couple wraps and through, a couple wraps and through, wet, tighten, snip, fish. question: do any of you put zap-a-gap or something similar on the blood knots in your leaders?  Doesit make a difference?

I have tried, but I really have not seen any difference.  It might help prevent the blood knot pulling out in the circumstances outlined above. Enough rambling on my part.  I like the often-chastised blood knot. -tgades

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I would like to cast a vote for tying your own leaders.  True, knotless leaders are easy and do not pick up moss and debris but a hand-tied leader will improve your presentation with drys if you use a hard/soft leader/tippet system.  FlyFisherman has an article in the July edition that talks about it some.  I’ve tied my own leaders for about a year and a half and think they’re worth the effort.

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I would go with the handtied leader.  I use a permanent butt section   attached to my flyline with a nail knot and with a perfection loop in the   end.  I put a perfection loop in the end of my leaders and use a loop to   loop connection.  The flyfish listserv has had extensive discussion   recently concerning failures of braided leader connections at the point   of attachment to the flyline. —   Dept. of Chemistry Centre College 600 W. Walnut St. Danville, KY 40422 phone (606)238-5416

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Conrad,         What do I have to do to subscribe to this flyfish listserv? Jim

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" If you want, I can provide size and length parameters for most species, just tell me which ones you are going for. (and yes, we do sell ready made leaders, too!) Tight Lines Tackle Shop and Guide Service Lockeport, Nova Scotia, Canada

And now a question to bcurry and other ff surfcasters. I was surfcasting last night in Santa Cruz and I had a bitch throwing a 1/0 deceiver. My rodbuilder flipped me a reel to try. This reel (in this order) backing, clear mono, and a 30′ shooting head had a six foot mono leader that I practiced for 2 weeks on grass. All was well. I have a 9′graphite 12 wght rod and the loaner reel/shooting head is about the same. Added to the mono "leader" I added 12′ 5 lb test leader and my deceiver It was foul city. In the surf, with a 30 foot shooting head 2 questions come to mind: 1. Can you recommend a [in the surf] leader formula for 1/0-3/0 flies perch, stripers are the prize 2. Can you surfcasters get anecdotal about your line selection (i.e. what is better in waves… a 30′ shooting head attached to mono? or a 30′ head attached to some floating line? 3.This mono curled like Harpo Marx in my shooting basket. I would think some real fly line (like my 7 wt 444 sinking line) would at least lay flat in the bottom of my basket. thanks for the know-how

Response:

1. Can you recommend a [in the surf] leader formula for 1/0-3/0 flies perch, stripers are the prize

The Lefty Kreh/Mark Sosin book Practical Fishing Knots II gives a good methodology for constructing saltwater leaders. I use all Mason hard mono for my saltwater leaders, which I tie in the methods suggested in Kreh/Sosin. (i.e. Surgeon’s loops, bimini twists, huffnagle knots, etc.) 2. Can you surfcasters get anecdotal about your line selection (i.e. what is better in waves… a 30′ shooting head attached to mono? or a 30′ head attached to some floating line? 3.This mono curled like Harpo Marx in my shooting basket. I would think some real fly line (like my 7 wt 444 sinking line) would at least lay flat in the bottom of my basket. thanks for the know-how

Check out the Teeny running lines. They’re made of limp, braided material which doesn’t curl up and will shoot through the guides easily in case it gets tangled. They’re neutrally-bouyant rather than high-floating like floating fly lines. I like them better than the level fly line-type running lines, but they’re a bit pricey. (Cope & McPheter’s carries them in the Bay area…) Regards, Fred

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I’m just getting started flyfishing, and I’m hooked. Though I’ve been using borrowed gear, I’m going to buy my own rod/reel soon. Unless I hear lots of negative reports about it (I’ve heard tons of good reports), I’m goin to go with the Orvis Clearwater Henry’s Fork outfit (8.5ft/5wt), since about $150-175 is my limit. My real question here, though, is about leaders. I know that Orvis (esp. since I’m buying my rod/reel/line from them) has several different kinds of leader systems: knotless leaders, braided leader system (which seems pretty snazzy), and the ol’ tie ‘em yourself from scratch method (which appeals to the traditionalist in me). Should I start with a knotless or braided leader/tippet system? or Should I learn to tie leaders myself (using books/friends/etc. as advice)? Also, I’m wondering about waders, but I’ve posted that separately. Thanks Steven Jarvis

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I’m just getting started flyfishing, and I’m hooked. My real question here, though, is about leaders. I know that Orvis (esp. since I’m buying my rod/reel/line from them) has several different kinds of leader systems: knotless leaders, braided leader system (which seems pretty snazzy), and the ol’ tie ‘em yourself from scratch method (which appeals to the traditionalist in me). Should I start with a knotless or braided leader/tippet system? or Should I learn to tie leaders myself (using books/friends/etc. as advice)?

Use the braided leader/tippet.  I do and like them a lot.   A sunny day,      a box of midges,         and a wandering stream…   Man, this MUST be heaven!   <    Steve Kulpa    <<

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I like to use knotless tapered leaders. maybe because I’m lazy, but there may be some very slight advantages with them. There are no knots to create drag, and the material has no "memory" (the hand tied t.l.’s i bought at the Yellowstone Angler took forever to straighten out). Also, I noticed that the braided sections can sometimes soak enough water to make them ride just under the surface of the water, which can be annoying. However, these factors are so slight that if your traditional tendencies say tie them yourself then that’s what you should do. Let us know if you have ?’s about size, lengths etc.

Response:

Should you decide to tie your own leaders, for God’s sake free yourself from the tyranny of the blood knot.  You can learn the surgeons knot in about 30 seconds. It’s quicker, its better and it HOLDS.  Remember, all this is supposed to be fun, not rocket science. RLPPT

Response:

My real question here, though, is about leaders. I know that Orvis (esp. since I’m buying my rod/reel/line from them) has several different kinds of leader systems: knotless leaders, braided leader system (which seems pretty snazzy), and the ol’ tie ‘em yourself from scratch method (which appeals to the traditionalist in me). Should I start with a knotless or braided leader/tippet system? or Should I learn to tie leaders myself (using books/friends/etc. as advice)?

Hi, I’d recommend the traditionalist choice, which happens to be the cheapest, too. Learning to tie your own leaders isn’t hard, and works really well, because you can change at will, when the occasion calls for it. Also, you’ll find that some species just don’t have pre-made leaders to buy (i.e. pickerel, which need a 10-15# test, but with a short 6" 30# opr more section to avoid "bite-offs". If you wantr, I can provide size and length parameters for most species, just tell me which ones you are going for. (and yes, we do sell ready made leaders, too!) Tight Lines Tackle Shop and Guide Service Lockeport, Nova Scotia, Canada

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Should you decide to tie your own leaders, for God’s sake free yourself from the tyranny of the blood knot.  You can learn the surgeons knot in about 30 seconds. It’s quicker, its better and it HOLDS.  Remember, all this is supposed to be fun, not rocket science. RLPPT

I think that being easier to tie is the ONLY possible advantage that the surgeons knot has over the blood.  From my informal tests, I believe the blood knot to be stronger.  Your mileage may vary, but I’d think that there would be a definite answer to this question.  Namely: which is stronger a properly tied blood or properly tied surgeons knot. I have personally found the answer to be the blood. -tgades

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: Should you decide to tie your own leaders, for God’s sake free yourself : from the tyranny of the blood knot.  You can learn the surgeons knot in : about 30 seconds. : It’s quicker, its better and it HOLDS.  Remember, all this is supposed to : be fun, not rocket science. RLPPT : I think that being easier to tie is the ONLY possible advantage that the : surgeons knot has over the blood.  From my informal tests, I believe the blood : knot to be stronger.  Your mileage may vary, but I’d think that there would : be a definite answer to this question.  Namely: which is stronger a properly : tied blood or properly tied surgeons knot. I have found the surgeons knot superior when the diameters of the two lines differs by more than a few x’s.  This happens mostly when I use a knotless leader and have changed flies a few times too often. I’ve found the blood knot clearly superior when the diameters are nearly the same…as they are when I’m tying my on leaders.  They don’t take long to tie, either, once you get the hang of it.  My biggest problem with the blood knot: I can’t tie it while smoking my pipe! question: do any of you put zap-a-gap or something similar on the blood knots in your leaders?  Doesit make a difference? — Laboratory for Applied Logic    Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho             www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster

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        Writing again about a flyfishing newsgroup…         My news server is running very slow so all the articles I see are 6 days old.  I got on another server recently and read more recent articles, so I’m posting again.  Excuse me if I’m writing something outdated now-         From what I see, there are people who don’t want to create a flyfishing newsgroup, and I can respect that.  Yes, someone pointed out that instead of having 50 email messages sent in one day you can get them all at once, which is nice.  I think I still like the idea of creating a newsgroup on the subject.  I don’t think it will detract from Rec.outdoors.fishing, and the bass fishermen will probably be happy to be rid of some of the flyfishing articles here.         From what I remember, technically we need to have some sort of organized discussion- just like we’re doing now.  Then, we have to have a vote.  I think there has to be a minimum number of votes, and the "ayes" have to outnumber the "nays" by a good amount (100 votes?).         I’m kind of busy for another week or so, and like I’ve said- I’m no expert here.  Is there some flyfishing sys admin who could help us set it up?  Or email me and I’ll do it myself?  If you don’t think we should have a new newsgroup, that’s fine.  But, you certainly can’t be against having a discussion and vote, right?         Thanks- -Jeff

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Writing again about a flyfishing newsgroup…    My news server is running very slow so all the articles I see are 6 days old.  I got on another server recently and read more recent articles, so I’m posting again.  Excuse me if I’m writing something outdated now-    From what I see, there are people who don’t want to create a flyfishing newsgroup, and I can respect that.  Yes, someone pointed out that instead of having 50 email messages sent in one day you can get them all at once, which is nice.  I think I still like the idea of creating a newsgroup on the subject.  I don’t think it will detract from Rec.outdoors.fishing, and the bass fishermen will probably be happy to be rid of some of the flyfishing articles here.    From what I remember, technically we need to have some sort of organized discussion- just like we’re doing now.  Then, we have to have a vote.  I think there has to be a minimum number of votes, and the "ayes" have to outnumber the "nays" by a good amount (100 votes?).

  Technically, any discussion on here is pretty much a waste of time if   the true intent is to alter/create newsgroups and/or their structure.   Your efforts would be better spent in the news.- forums, because   that is where these things are decided.   Personally, I just don’t see the traffic in either alt.fishing or   rec.outdoors.fishing that would indicate the need for further   subdivision.  The fact that the flyfish listserv does carry a lot of   traffic is totally irrelevant to any discussion of usenet newsgroups –   they just aren’t related.  And who says bass fisherman don’t also   flyfish? — Northern Trust Co.  Chicago, IL |  DoD #97779  88 FLHTC

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Certainly the list-server will NOT be shut down for a varity of reasons, not to mention that some folks do not have access to a news server – only e-mail. I do think we need to pursue the creation of rec.fishing.flyfishing or whatever. Thomas Gilg First, let me clarify that I’m NOT proposing we terminate the flyfishing listserv. I do remain concerned however at the listserv’s explosive growth, and the ability of the list maintainer and we readers to keep up with it.           Flyfish Listserv Post Statistics for 11/92 thru 2/94       1000        950                                          *        900        850    p   800    o   750                                             + (half month)    s   700    t   650                              *    s   600                                       *        550                  *              *  *        500        450        400               *     *  *  *        350        300            *        250        200         *        150      *        100   *        50 *           11 12 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10 11 12 1  2           1992                 1993                 1994                            month and year I loved the group *the way it was*, but times are changing, and none of us can change that fact.   Question is, what should we do?    I see several opportunities:    o Get more leverage from NEWS    o Find tools which help e-mail only users deal with the traffic.    o Setup services that give users visibility into the forums they      currently don’t have access to.    o Figure out how WWW/Mosaic might help us. Other options (I’m not endorsing) include:    o Restricted list servers    o Subgrouped flyfish listserv’s What it all comes down to: how do we manage the unstoppable growth, changes and limits we’re seeing in the electronic flyfishing forums? Thomas Gilg

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