Question:

they tend to be much more     durable than the store-bought variety, and cost about 50 cents apiece.     Home-made leaders cost me about a dime apiece, if that. I can tell that you haven’t bought store-bought leaders in quite a while.     Willi

Response:

 I have been reading about the advantages/disadvantages of leader material. The author of the book I’m reading seemed to indicate that manufactured knotless leaders can have a variability in performance because of the way the leader is tapered.  Knotted leaders gives more control of the proportions on the leader formulas to ensure the taper is more accurate. Also, there is the flexibility of using different types of leader material to customize the leader to the fishing conditions.  Like using a stiffer leader material on the butt and middle sections and more supple material on the presentation end of the leader. He also gets into the types of knots and whether or not "hinging" occurs and what impact that has on the transfer of energy from the rod to the line to the fly. Is there a preference by you guys whether or not you tie your own leaders or go with the ready-made pre-tapered leaders? Thanks, Eric p.s.  Thanks for the response on the tippet post.  A lot of good info there.

Response:

I personally don’t really have a preference either way. I do find in some rivers where algae is a problem the need to constantly clear the knots on the leader of the weed or algae to be a pain, but  then I have to do that with the tippet knot anyway. In this day and age of convenience I find the range of tapered leaders now offered covers all of the fishing situations I do and it’s simple. I have a heavy piece of butt section needle knotted to the fly line, I attach a commercial leader to that and a tippet to the end of it and go fishing. Tying your own leaders can be fun, but I find the fun soon wears off. Umpqua have a phenomenal range of different leaders. check out their web site if you are interested, even if you don’t purchase your leaders their various different designs will give you some ideas for your own. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been reading about the advantages/disadvantages of leader material. The author of the book I’m reading seemed to indicate that manufactured knotless leaders can have a variability in performance because of the way the leader is tapered.  Knotted leaders gives more control of the proportions on the leader formulas to ensure the taper is more accurate. Also, there is the flexibility of using different types of leader material to customize the leader to the fishing conditions.  Like using a stiffer leader material on the butt and middle sections and more supple material on the presentation end of the leader. He also gets into the types of knots and whether or not "hinging" occurs and what impact that has on the transfer of energy from the rod to the line to the fly. Is there a preference by you guys whether or not you tie your own leaders or go with the ready-made pre-tapered leaders? Thanks, Eric p.s.  Thanks for the response on the tippet post.  A lot of good info there.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been reading about the advantages/disadvantages of leader material. The author of the book I’m reading seemed to indicate that manufactured knotless leaders can have a variability in performance because of the way the leader is tapered.  Knotted leaders gives more control of the proportions on the leader formulas to ensure the taper is more accurate. Also, there is the flexibility of using different types of leader material to customize the leader to the fishing conditions.  Like using a stiffer leader material on the butt and middle sections and more supple material on the presentation end of the leader. He also gets into the types of knots and whether or not "hinging" occurs and what impact that has on the transfer of energy from the rod to the line to the fly. Is there a preference by you guys whether or not you tie your own leaders or go with the ready-made pre-tapered leaders?

I almost always make my own because I think it’s easy and like you said I can use whatever material I want.  I can whip up a leader or fix one in a couple minutes out on the stream.  I don’t think there’s as much difference between some of these leader formulas as the creators imply, but still it’s nice to know you can quickly make changes to your leader once you know the basics of how they work and how to tie the knots.

Response:

In this day and age of convenience I find the range of tapered leaders now offered covers all of the fishing situations I do and it’s simple. I have a heavy piece of butt section needle knotted to the fly line, I attach a commercial leader to that and a tippet to the end of it and go fishing. Tying your own leaders can be fun, but I find the fun soon wears off.

Sounds like you’re tying your own leaders the way it is.  Borger’s Uni-body leader is no more complicated than that.

Response:

[...] I don’t think there’s as much difference between some of these leader formulas as the creators imply…

        Agreed.  There are more variations in leader formulae than Heinz has pickles and ketchup.  :-)  I’ve been using the simple formula in Kreh’s and Sosin’s "Practical Fishing Knots", and for 90% of the fishing I do, it works about as well as anything.   but still it’s nice to know you can quickly make changes to your leader once you know the basics of how they work and how to tie the knots.

        I think that’s the beauty of tying your own.  You can tweak your leader to the conditions and the characteristics of the fly you’re using and refine the presentation to what you need.  Sometimes this can really pay off.  Of course, other times, the leader configuration doesn’t matter a whit. Todd

Response:

Perhaps so, so but in reality, that is the correct way to use store bought leaders with the butt section bit being the only real optional part. Tippet should always be added pretty much. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In this day and age of convenience I find the range of tapered leaders now offered covers all of the fishing situations I do and it’s simple. I have a heavy piece of butt section needle knotted to the fly line, I attach a commercial leader to that and a tippet to the end of it and go fishing. Tying your own leaders can be fun, but I find the fun soon wears off. Sounds like you’re tying your own leaders the way it is.  Borger’s Uni-body leader is no more complicated than that.

Response:

I have been reading about the advantages/disadvantages of leader material. The author of the book I’m reading seemed to indicate that manufactured knotless leaders can have a variability in performance because of the way the leader is tapered.  Knotted leaders gives more control of the proportions on the leader formulas to ensure the taper is more accurate. Also, there is the flexibility of using different types of leader material to customize the leader to the fishing conditions.  Like using a stiffer leader material on the butt and middle sections and more supple material on the presentation end of the leader.

I prefer tying my own because a) it can get you back into rising fish faster, and b) the flexibility you mention above. He also gets into the types of knots and whether or not "hinging" occurs and what impact that has on the transfer of energy from the rod to the line to the fly.

I haven’t noticed any hinging with the double surgeon’s knot, and I think the presentation is comparable either way. I’m sure some strength is lost, as it is with any knot, but I haven’t lost any more fish with the hand-tied than with the store-bought. — TL, Tim

Response:

Slightly off topic, but what book are you reading? Jim Ray

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been reading about the advantages/disadvantages of leader material. The author of the book I’m reading seemed to indicate that manufactured knotless leaders can have a variability in performance because of the way the leader is tapered.  Knotted leaders gives more control of the proportions on the leader formulas to ensure the taper is more accurate. Also, there is the flexibility of using different types of leader material to customize the leader to the fishing conditions.  Like using a stiffer leader material on the butt and middle sections and more supple material on the presentation end of the leader. He also gets into the types of knots and whether or not "hinging" occurs and what impact that has on the transfer of energy from the rod to the line to the fly. Is there a preference by you guys whether or not you tie your own leaders or go with the ready-made pre-tapered leaders? Thanks, Eric p.s.  Thanks for the response on the tippet post.  A lot of good info there.

Response:

Is there a preference by you guys whether or not you tie your own leaders or go with the ready-made pre-tapered leaders?

I find the disadvantages of knots in leaders too great for dry fly fishing (viz. bits of flimsy mono catching on the knots.) I use a tapered leader tapered to a heavier weight – say four pounds – then tie a tippet of a lighter weight – say three pounds – maybe two or three feet. And then there’s a couple of feet of heavy mono attached to the line, with a loop in it. Keep cutting the tippet down till there’s no more, then add another. L

Response:

The book is titled "Drag-Free Drift Leader Design and Presentation Techniques for Fly Fishing" by Joseph A. Kissane.  There’s an associated CD Rom that does leader calculations by Steven B. Schweitzer.  He’s cofounder of the Global Flyfisher website.  The book is actually pretty good.  The author is an engineer so it’s written in a technical writing style and is very detailed in parts.  Sometimes I feel like I’m reading a physics textbook. I’m an analyst by profession so I like to understand things. Sometimes I think it’s better not knowing whether my leader is hinging or not.  Like one guy posted on the Leaders & Tippet thread  that goes something like this: "I just tie it that way and it works.  Don’t know why." I think that’s all that counts. Eric

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Slightly off topic, but what book are you reading? Jim Ray I have been reading about the advantages/disadvantages of leader material. The author of the book I’m reading seemed to indicate that manufactured knotless leaders can have a variability in performance because of the way the leader is tapered.  Knotted leaders gives more control of the proportions on the leader formulas to ensure the taper is more accurate. Also, there is the flexibility of using different types of leader material to customize the leader to the fishing conditions.  Like using a stiffer leader material on the butt and middle sections and more supple material on the presentation end of the leader. He also gets into the types of knots and whether or not "hinging" occurs and what impact that has on the transfer of energy from the rod to the line to the fly. Is there a preference by you guys whether or not you tie your own leaders or go with the ready-made pre-tapered leaders? Thanks, Eric p.s.  Thanks for the response on the tippet post.  A lot of good info there.

Response:

Hi Eric, I would say that today that about 90% of the fly fishers use knotless tapered leaders for trout. Why? Well, probably the same reason about 90% of the fly fishers buy flies? They don’t have the time or the skill. Actually, many anglers use knotless leaders for trout because they don’t want all those knots for stuff to catch on. Lots of very sophisticated fly fishers use tapered knotless leader, but they modify them a bit. Years ago we all tied our own leaders because the only ones you could buy were not too good. I still tie my own leaders for steelhead and salt water. I think everyone that wants to tie their own leaders, tie their own flies and build their own rods should do so because it is fun and can be very educational. After you tie your own knotted leaders and play with them to see how they work, you can use knotless tapered leaders and do some adjusting on them to get them to work just fine. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been reading about the advantages/disadvantages of leader material. The author of the book I’m reading seemed to indicate that manufactured knotless leaders can have a variability in performance because of the way the leader is tapered.  Knotted leaders gives more control of the proportions on the leader formulas to ensure the taper is more accurate. Also, there is the flexibility of using different types of leader material to customize the leader to the fishing conditions.  Like using a stiffer leader material on the butt and middle sections and more supple material on the presentation end of the leader. He also gets into the types of knots and whether or not "hinging" occurs and what impact that has on the transfer of energy from the rod to the line to the fly. Is there a preference by you guys whether or not you tie your own leaders or go with the ready-made pre-tapered leaders? Thanks, Eric p.s.  Thanks for the response on the tippet post.  A lot of good info there.

Response:

Hi Eric, I would say that today that about 90% of the fly fishers use knotless tapered leaders for trout. Why? Well, probably the same reason about 90% of the fly fishers buy flies? They don’t have the time or the skill. Actually, many anglers use knotless leaders for trout because they don’t want all those knots for stuff to catch on…

I used knotless leaders for the first year or two that I fly fished, and they worked well enough, but I think my own leaders work even better. Having stuff catch on the knots is a minor to nonexistent "problem," or at least it is in the places I normally fish. When it does happen, removing the moss or whatever is pretty quick and simple. It only takes a few minutes to make a leader from scratch, and these leaders have, IMO, several important advantages. I can give it exactly the taper I want, I can use different kinds of monofilament in different parts of the leader (stiffer at the butt, softer at the tippet, for instance), and when rebuilding the leader at streamside, I know exactly where I am in the taper by following the knots. The toughest part is learning to tie a good blood knot, and it only takes a few leaders to get the hang of that. I tie my own flies for similar reasons. I can use exactly which materials I want, and modify or create patterns as I see fit,  they tend to be much more durable than the store-bought variety, and cost about 50 cents apiece. Home-made leaders cost me about a dime apiece, if that. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

Hi Eric, I would say that today that about 90% of the fly fishers use knotless tapered leaders for trout. Why? Well, probably the same reason about 90% of the fly fishers buy flies? They don’t have the time or the skill.

What a "Right On" remark to make.  Great! Actually, many anglers use knotless leaders for trout because they don’t want all those knots for stuff to catch on.

Not, IMHO, anything but a cop out reason.  Doesn’t hold water because it is "The Fly" which must be kept clean at all times.   After you tie your own knotted leaders and play with them to see how they work, you can use knotless tapered leaders and do some adjusting on them to get them to work just fine.

Bill?  I really think you’re a savvy kind of shop owner and the majority of your advice is super.  But I have to say this about tapered leaders.  From Brand to Brand, there is nothing as consistant in fly fishing than the consistant inconsistant tapers of tapered leaders. The ONLY WAY to be assured of a sharp turn over and absolute control for the SERIOUS fly fisherman is to tie their own, or better put, roll their own leaders.  It is rare that anything catches knots in hand tied leaders, not unless the water is full of dissideous moss and junk and even then, a tapered leader still  has a minimum of two or three knots involved. I truely dislike tapered leaders because they are heat melted from a single large diameter butt section and pulled to a longer taper, not unlike pulling warm bubble gum out of one’s mouth.  No two strings or pull are the same. Never! I take my fly fishing much too seriously not to tie my own.  It is an art form just like fly tying.  Why would anyone deny themselves of this pleasure when it comes to "The Ways of a Trout?"  I just can’t fathom the mind set that uses tapered leaders. George Gehrke "who always rolls his own" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Hi Bill, I haven’t tried tying my own leaders yet but would like to. The knots in the leader seem to be the biggest drawback.  When I went with guide on Henry’s Fork, he set up "our rig" with a set up he tied himself.  I wished I had paid closer attention to what he had done.  We had a full day of great fishing and even for us rookies we could make decent casts (albeit not very far casts).  I buy the pre-made leaders and tie a tippet on the end.  They work well enough but the presentation is poor about half the time.  I’ve tinkered with cutting off certain parts and adding tippet where I think it might work better.  This trial and error approach does not always produce great results. I don’t get out as often as I like so I like to make the best of it when I do. I mostly fish high mountain lakes and as you probably know conditions can change rather quickly. If the day starts out warm and sunny, the leader has some nice flex to it.  Have the sun go behind the clouds and the wind kick up the leader gets stiff and my tippet will wrap around it like a rope on a tether ball pole.   Of course, that’s when the fishing starts to get hot and I’m there with a mess on the end of my fly line. Thanks, Eric

Response:

Question:

If you are interested at all in fishing this area, which is widely regarded as some of the best flyfishing in the State, please contact your state representative and state senator. By all means. Thanks, Stan.

Is this area of no importance, security-wise? Why do we want t opened if it a potential target? BTW, did they ever find out who flew over the Quabbin’s restricted airpace on Sep 11 / 12? — Gary M

Response:

If you are interested at all in fishing this area, which is widely regarded as some of the best flyfishing in the State, please contact your state representative and state senator. Is this area of no importance, security-wise? Why do we want t opened if it a potential target?

Because it’s mine (and yours, if you pay taxes) and I (we) paid for it. If they wish to have security check to make sure only U.S. citizens are allowed, that’s fine. If they want to impose an extra fee for entrance to offset costs of additional security, I could probably even live with that, if it weren’t for the fact that these fees would probably remain permanently. I’ve not seen many "temporary" fees, taxes, or tolls removed in my lifetime – especially while in Massachusetts. We should not be content to let our freedoms slip away because of the attacks on 9/11. What the past has always dictated to us is that freedoms, once lost, are difficult to regain. BTW, did they ever find out who flew over the Quabbin’s restricted airpace on Sep 11 / 12?

That’s a good question. I never heard anything further on that incident. I guess we can’t blame that on some rambunctious teenagers, can we? Tim

Response:

Is this area of no importance, security-wise? Why do we want t opened if it a potential target?

To be truthful, the only reason I would like to see it opened is to keep Easterners off the stretches I like to fish. It’s really not a big security risk, but the the people tasked with protecting it are a lot more paranoid than normal people (that’s their job).  The proposed access restrictions were a good compromise between full access and protection of the two areas that are really security problems (both of which are buildings that could easily be fenced off and monitored). BTW, did they ever find out who flew over the Quabbin’s restricted airpace on Sep 11 / 12?

At least one plane was identified and I believe the pilot got a substantial fine.  FWIW, before people got all nervous, flights over Quabbin occurred almost daily, and many flew lower than regulations.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is this area of no importance, security-wise? Why do we want t opened if it a potential target? To be truthful, the only reason I would like to see it opened is to keep Easterners off the stretches I like to fish. It’s really not a big security risk, but the the people tasked with protecting it are a lot more paranoid than normal people (that’s their job).  The proposed access restrictions were a good compromise between full access and protection of the two areas that are really security problems (both of which are buildings that could easily be fenced off and monitored). BTW, did they ever find out who flew over the Quabbin’s restricted airpace on Sep 11 / 12? At least one plane was identified and I believe the pilot got a substantial fine.  FWIW, before people got all nervous, flights over Quabbin occurred almost daily, and many flew lower than regulations.

I found it interesting (read absurd) that they opened access to the actual reservoir and closed a section of river past the public water supply. Paul

Response:

I found it interesting (read absurd) that they opened access to the actual reservoir and closed a section of river past the public water supply.

The Y-Pool area is probably the most vulnerable to an attack, ad it affords access to the base of the dam, via the defunct power station, and the filtration plant on Rte 9. The powers that be have admitted that poisonong is not a major concern because of the amount of water involved, but destruction of the dam is considered a likely objective. That said, it is highly unlikely that the dam would be a priority target for terrorists, and New York City, which currently has similar restrictions on their water supply, will allow access to their watershed staring April 1. As Stan pointed out, the barring of access to the Y-Pool is simply paranoia exhibited by the state police.It;s also a lot simpler for them if no access is allowed….they can simply arrest everyone they see in there, although they couldn’t catch the kids, (if there actually were any), that were tresspassing a few weeks ago. Shows how effective the regulations would be against terrorists. Definitely time to put some pressure on our legislators. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

Steve Brewer is for real – he’s solidly on the side of sportsmen.

Balsnce snipped for brevity. Unfortunately there were only four of us at the meeting interested in the Swift, while there were forty or so interested in the Quabbin. Strength in numbers and all that. FWIW, I emailed Sen. Brewer and Rep.Hillman. I have not heard from Brewer, but received an immsdiate reply from Hillman, pledging his support. Since he is the retired commandant of the State Police, he should carry some weight, but he will have to know that a number of others are interested. I just sent out the monthly WMFF newsletter, and included a plea for members to contact their legislators. I would hope TU does likewise. Unfortunately, even though the upper Swift always seems crowded,  there is a relatively small number of people that utilize the area, and they reside in several different districts, so there isn’t enough voting power to make this a hot issue, politically. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

I received a reply letter from Steven Brewer (State Senator) yesterday that states he is also behind the cause and has already called for and conducted meetings regarding this issue. It’s hard to tell from the letter how much is real trying versus political posturing, but he’s been honorable in the past and I wouldn’t expect anything different now. If I remember, I’ll scan it and post it on ABPF for all to read. It looks like a form letter, so I hope he’s received many complaints about opening the area to fly fishing. Tim

Steve Brewer is for real – he’s solidly on the side of sportsmen.  He’s the guy who ran the meetings at Quabbin when they were first discussing the issues a few weeks ago.  Unfortunately, as he put it at the last meeting I went to, the people in Boston stole the water fair and square and will steal access rights to the surrounding land if they can. –Stan

Response:

Mass. MDC issued a press release yesterday confirming the rumors that the section of the Swift River north of Route 9 will remain closed ‘for the foreseeable future’ due to security concerns.  The full press release is available at the MDC web site at http://www.state.ma.us/mdc/prsrel.htm The area was scheduled to re-open on April 13, but as the State Police and National Guard were reviewing security measures, there was an ‘incident’ with some trespassers who the guards were not able to catch.  So, the State Police commander has decided to keep the area completely closed. If you are interested at all in fishing this area, which is widely regarded as some of the best flyfishing in the State, please contact your state representative and state senator.

I received a reply letter from Steven Brewer (State Senator) yesterday that states he is also behind the cause and has already called for and conducted meetings regarding this issue. It’s hard to tell from the letter how much is real trying versus political posturing, but he’s been honorable in the past and I wouldn’t expect anything different now. If I remember, I’ll scan it and post it on ABPF for all to read. It looks like a form letter, so I hope he’s received many complaints about opening the area to fly fishing. Tim

Response:

. If they want to impose an extra fee for entrance to offset costs of additional security, I could probably even live with that, if it weren’t for the fact that these fees would probably remain permanently. I’ve not seen many "temporary" fees, taxes, or tolls removed in my lifetime – especially while in Massachusetts.

Few things can outlive a "temporary" tax. We should not be content to let our freedoms slip away because of the attacks on 9/11. What the past has always dictated to us is that freedoms, once lost, are difficult to regain.

While that is a true enough sentiment, the various elements which endanger various freedoms and which (sometimes at the cost of flesh & blood) ensure freedoms are so complex as to defy armchair analysis. The biggest threat to all of us and all our freedoms is inertia: let somebody else take the risk/pay the price/challenge the threat. We don’t necessarily have to become as dramatic as Thomas Jefferson’s comment about watering the tree of freedom with the blood of tyrants and patriots, but we ALL have to be willing to give up a little ‘comfort’ here and there. And I use the word ‘comfort’ to suggest we all too readily take for granted, even not realizing it, that we got where we are by spilling the blood of tyrants & patriots. The movie "The Patriot" is a little melodramatic in order to keep the plot development going for the viewers’ eyes but underneath it’s a good example of how each person must be prepared to react. We’ve all seen the marvelous photo of 4 GI’s raising Old Glory on Mount Suribaci. Three of those guys were dead by suppertime that same day. Get involved. Stay involved. If you’re worried about the cost you don’t deserve the freedoms. Sermon ends. Yours in the north Maine woods, Pete Hilton aka The Ent — A person is free only in the freedom of other persons.   W. Berry

Response:

Mass. MDC issued a press release yesterday confirming the rumors that the section of the Swift River north of Route 9 will remain closed ‘for the foreseeable future’ due to security concerns.  The full press release is available at the MDC web site at http://www.state.ma.us/mdc/prsrel.htm The area was scheduled to re-open on April 13, but as the State Police and National Guard were reviewing security measures, there was an ‘incident’ with some trespassers who the guards were not able to catch.  So, the State Police commander has decided to keep the area completely closed. If you are interested at all in fishing this area, which is widely regarded as some of the best flyfishing in the State, please contact your state representative and state senator.

So far, I’ve only heard back from Reed Hillman, who is firmly behind eliminating restrictions. I’m sure he won’t mind me quoting him in this group: "Dear Tim – I agree with you 100%.  Harassing ordinary citizens who wish to enjoy the Quabbin does not deter any potential terrorist one iota.  I will continue to try to get a common sense approach to Quabbin security adopted." Hopefully, our voices will be heard. Tim

Response:

Mass. MDC issued a press release yesterday confirming the rumors that the section of the Swift River north of Route 9 will remain closed ‘for the foreseeable future’ due to security concerns.  The full press release is available at the MDC web site at http://www.state.ma.us/mdc/prsrel.htm The area was scheduled to re-open on April 13, but as the State Police and National Guard were reviewing security measures, there was an ‘incident’ with some trespassers who the guards were not able to catch.  So, the State Police commander has decided to keep the area completely closed. If you are interested at all in fishing this area, which is widely regarded as some of the best flyfishing in the State, please contact your state representative and state senator. –Stan Gula

Response:

Mass. MDC issued a press release yesterday confirming the rumors that the section of the Swift River north of Route 9 will remain closed ‘for the foreseeable future’ due to security concerns.  The full press release is available at the MDC web site at http://www.state.ma.us/mdc/prsrel.htm

Crap. And as Stan said before, there’s no fishing allowed south of Cady Lane either, right Stan? The area was scheduled to re-open on April 13, but as the State Police and National Guard were reviewing security measures, there was an ‘incident’ with some trespassers who the guards were not able to catch.  So, the State Police commander has decided to keep the area completely closed.

What I heard was that three (probably beer drinking) kids were out for thrills to see if they could get by the security. Any truth to this? If so, we could hire these kids to check the airports nationwide. If you are interested at all in fishing this area, which is widely regarded as some of the best flyfishing in the State, please contact your state representative and state senator.

By all means. Thanks, Stan. Tim

Response:

Mass. MDC issued a press release yesterday confirming the rumors that the section of the Swift River north of Route 9 will remain closed ‘for the foreseeable future’ due to security concerns.  The full press release is available at the MDC web site at http://www.state.ma.us/mdc/prsrel.htm Crap. And as Stan said before, there’s no fishing allowed south of Cady Lane either, right Stan?

It’s allowed, but useless as there’s no fish.  I hear there’s some nice carp and eels way down in the Chicopee below Three Rivers though<g. What I heard was that three (probably beer drinking) kids were out for thrills to see if they could get by the security.

That’s pretty much the story I heard.  I don’t know about the thrillseeking part, but they must have gotten a thrill from being chased by armed Guardsmen.  All it takes is a few jerks to ruin it for everybody.  Until that happened, it looked really good for re-opening the area. –Stan

Response:

Question:

Tracey <rbranc…@mediaone.net> wrote in message

news:3A96A46C.45DF0E68@mediaone.net… > >of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it > >would cause marital problems. > If *both* are involved (and are devoted to it), it doesn’t seem > like it’s a cause of problems. > — > Tracey

My mistake…I suppose there could be occasions where this would not cause problems.  (shudders) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Indigo: What sailors do when they see a bar >                      —Funky Winkerbean—

Response:

Jadelee111512 <jadelee111…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20010223130358.05491.00000364@ng-co1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >From: "B and B" > >Aaaauuugggghhhh!!!!!!!!!! > >Stay away!  Stay away!!!! > >Oh, wait.  You were asking about being married to an amway distributor, not > >becoming one. > >Well…I don’t know what to tell you, but given the "borg sphere" mentality > >of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it would cause > >marital problems. > >Kevin Stone <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote in message > >news:t9d626mr61ho47@corp.supernews.com… > >> Just a fishing question here. > >> Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does they way > >> of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > >> Kevin > At the very least, this inquiry could bring up an intersting topic regarding > different professions and the effect they might have  on the marriage. Amway > is one of many that has the potential to create its own set of problems within > a relationship. > jadelee

Being a phone sex operator can grate on a marriage too.  And so can just about any occupation where a lot of travel is involved.

Response:

I do not know what Amway work is. Is it a fortune 500 club? momalot – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Jadelee111512 wrote: > >From: "B and B" > >Aaaauuugggghhhh!!!!!!!!!! > >Stay away!  Stay away!!!! > >Oh, wait.  You were asking about being married to an amway distributor, not > >becoming one. > >Well…I don’t know what to tell you, but given the "borg sphere" mentality > >of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it would cause > >marital problems. > >Kevin Stone <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote in message > >news:t9d626mr61ho47@corp.supernews.com… > >> Just a fishing question here. > >> Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does they way > >> of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > >> Kevin > At the very least, this inquiry could bring up an intersting topic regarding > different professions and the effect they might have  on the marriage.  Amway > is one of many that has the potential to create its own set of problems within > a relationship. > jadelee

Response:

Tracey wrote: > >of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it > >would cause marital problems. > If *both* are involved (and are devoted to it), it doesn’t seem > like it’s a cause of problems.

That would be tres cool, if you think about it.  They could sell each other stuff ad nauseam and be filthy rich in no time, right? Ponzi 1, do you take Ponzi 2 to be your lawful wedded… Drew

Response:

> I do not know what Amway work is. Is it a fortune 500 club? > momalot

www.amway.com shepette  (who used to like momalot’s posts, too bad we’ve now lost her to the underworld of amway…)

Response:

Ahhh, I see what it is now. Thanks for the link, btw. In my area we have "Stanley" , I think it’s a lot like Amway. Not my cup a tea. momalot – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Shepette wrote: > > I do not know what Amway work is. Is it a fortune 500 club? > > momalot > www.amway.com > shepette  (who used to like momalot’s posts, too bad we’ve now lost her to > the underworld of amway…)

Response:

ROFLOL ISIS "momalot" <dadalotmoma…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:3A96B436.6E33A6DB@hotmail.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I do not know what Amway work is. Is it a fortune 500 club? > momalot > Jadelee111512 wrote: > > >From: "B and B" > > >Aaaauuugggghhhh!!!!!!!!!! > > >Stay away!  Stay away!!!! > > >Oh, wait.  You were asking about being married to an amway distributor, not > > >becoming one. > > >Well…I don’t know what to tell you, but given the "borg sphere" mentality > > >of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it would cause > > >marital problems. > > >Kevin Stone <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote in message > > >news:t9d626mr61ho47@corp.supernews.com… > > >> Just a fishing question here. > > >> Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does they way > > >> of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > > >> Kevin > > At the very least, this inquiry could bring up an intersting topic regarding > > different professions and the effect they might have  on the marriage. Amway > > is one of many that has the potential to create its own set of problems within > > a relationship. > > jadelee

Response:

Run fast and far. — JWB remove spamkiller to reply via e-mail "Kevin Stone" <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote in message

news:t9d626mr61ho47@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Just a fishing question here. > Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does their way > of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > Kevin

Response:

I agree with that, but Amway is in a class by itself. Amway’s just……… creepy — JWB remove spamkiller to reply via e-mail "Jadelee111512" <jadelee111…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20010223130358.05491.00000364@ng-co1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >From: "B and B" > >Aaaauuugggghhhh!!!!!!!!!! > >Stay away!  Stay away!!!! > >Oh, wait.  You were asking about being married to an amway distributor, not > >becoming one. > >Well…I don’t know what to tell you, but given the "borg sphere" mentality > >of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it would cause > >marital problems. > >Kevin Stone <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote in message > >news:t9d626mr61ho47@corp.supernews.com… > >> Just a fishing question here. > >> Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does they way > >> of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > >> Kevin > At the very least, this inquiry could bring up an intersting topic regarding > different professions and the effect they might have  on the marriage. Amway > is one of many that has the potential to create its own set of problems within > a relationship. > jadelee

Response:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:11:14 -0500, "B and B" <baboonnliz…@prodigy.net> wrote: >Aaaauuugggghhhh!!!!!!!!!! >Stay away!  Stay away!!!! >Oh, wait.  You were asking about being married to an amway distributor, not >becoming one. >Well…I don’t know what to tell you, but given the "borg sphere" mentality >of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it would cause >marital problems.

Nitpick Dept:  Most Borg vessels are cubes, not spheres.

Response:

>From: "B and B" >Being a phone sex operator can grate on a marriage too.  And so can just >about any occupation where a lot of travel is involved.

Those are examples of a few.  Any high stress job has a potential to effect a marriage. Too many to name.  We are not well prepared to handle the stressors of jobs and marriage. jadelee

Response:

"B and B" wrote: >Being a phone sex operator can grate on a marriage too.  And so can just >about any occupation where a lot of travel is involved.

I could see how a lot of travel could grate on a marriage. Mom, for example, got more than just a bit fed up being home alone with the kids while dad was always out on the road selling insurance. He finally had to give it up, trading it in for teaching highschool and regular home hours. On the other hand, a tiny bit of work travel can be good for a marriage. For example, I’m happy for the time I have with my wife, but for the three or four times a year she’s off to trade shows, I enjoy that solitude time as well. As well, there have also been at least a few of her work trips where I’ve come along, we’ve extended our stay, and made a vacation of the situation more economically than if we had to pay the full shot for travel ourselves. So to my own family experiences at least, a lot of occupational travel can add to marital stress, where as a bit of occupational travel can actually be more beneficial to a marital relationship than none at all. CJ

Response:

Our relationshio has various small problems ie… insistence on using only Amway products (even if I don,t like that particular product) Granted Amway has some good products, But as any Company does they also have some bad ones or just plain some too expensive ones. I love my wife with all my heart, sometimes tho it seems that the Amway brainwashing borders on the ridiculous. By the way I am a former Amway brainwashee so I do know the other side and underrstand how they think. I was pretty disturbed by the way the marketing was carried out and the type of person I was turning out to be when I was involved. Thanks for all the response, keep it coming Kevin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —— Original Message —– From: CupCaked <karensSP…@nac.net> Newsgroups: alt.support.marriage Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 9:36 AM Subject: Re: Amway > "Kevin Stone" <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote: > >Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does their way > >of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > That’s a VERY provocative question.  May I ask what brought it about? >    http://www.cupcaked.com/cupcaked >  (and leave off the "potatoes" CupCaked <karensSP…@nac.net> wrote in message news:3aa09f57.22892148@news.nac.net… > "Kevin Stone" <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote: > >Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does their way > >of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > That’s a VERY provocative question.  May I ask what brought it about? >    http://www.cupcaked.com/cupcaked >  (and leave off the "potatoes" to e-mail)

Response:

I’ve always had the belief that Amway will ruin a relationship unless both partners are in it 100%. Let me guess – your wife makes next to nothing in real profit, but "will… someday" — JWB remove spamkiller to reply via e-mail "Kevin Stone" <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote in message

news:t9frefdafcame5@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Our relationshio has various small problems ie… insistence on using only > Amway products (even if I don,t like that particular product) Granted Amway > has some good products, But as any Company does they also have some bad ones > or just plain some too expensive ones. I love my wife with all my heart, > sometimes tho it seems that the Amway brainwashing borders on the > ridiculous. By the way I am a former Amway brainwashee so I do know the > other side and underrstand how they think. I was pretty disturbed by the way > the marketing was carried out and the type of person I was turning out to be > when I was involved. > Thanks for all the response, keep it coming > Kevin > —– Original Message —– > From: CupCaked <karensSP…@nac.net> > Newsgroups: alt.support.marriage > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 9:36 AM > Subject: Re: Amway > > "Kevin Stone" <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote: > > >Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does their > way > > >of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > > That’s a VERY provocative question.  May I ask what brought it about? > >    http://www.cupcaked.com/cupcaked > >  (and leave off the "potatoes" > CupCaked <karensSP…@nac.net> wrote in message > news:3aa09f57.22892148@news.nac.net… > > "Kevin Stone" <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote: > > >Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does their > way > > >of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > > That’s a VERY provocative question.  May I ask what brought it about? > >    http://www.cupcaked.com/cupcaked > >  (and leave off the "potatoes" to e-mail)

Response:

Hi Kevin, I’m not a distributor, but I do know a few.  A co-worker was married 16 years when "they" got started in "the business".  That was about 6 years ago.  Their divorce was final last summer.  W said he was never home and found someone to fill in the gap.  Another co-worker says it ruined her daughter’s first marriage for the same reason – one of the two of them was always chasing a sale or going off to one function or another.  Another couple  that I know make it work, but that’s because they literally do it side by side.  As I understand the way that it’s structured, it’s together….on NOT.  Figuratively and literally. I hope this is somewhat of an answer for you. — – First Light     @——-We are each of us angels with only one wing; and it’s when we embrace each other that we can fly.—-/—@ "Kevin Stone" <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote in message

news:t9d626mr61ho47@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Just a fishing question here. > Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does their way > of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > Kevin

Response:

The company as a whole is successful. But the people in it, overwhelmingly, are not. They get you in for a year or two, the suckers buy *everything* they use/own through amway, then they realize they are making *zero* monry, and they drop out. They seem to recruit from the lower-middle / middle class mostly. The people easiest to sell "the good life" to, as those people will believe it. The poor usually won’t, and generally won’t have the ambition the follow through (and afford the initial "kit"). But the middle class will put the kit on the credit card, charge a few suits (for the weekly "pump me ups"), and generally feel proud for awhile that they have a "business". They get nice little business cards made, and listen to Zig-Zigler tell them how great life can be. Most of them are smiling on the outside and putting up a successful "front" (wearing clothing and taking trips they cannot afford, so they can "keep up"…. really. I had several friends in Amway. They would charge a new suit, and fly to Florida for a three hour meeting, and fly home the same day. stuff they could hardly afford to do – but Amway made them feel like they couldn’t afford NOT to – it’s a bizzare company). Anyway, I’ve rambled enough. I’ve seen this company close up, and see what it does to people. It’s sad. — JWB remove spamkiller to reply via e-mail "IgOr" <ignora…@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message

news:slrn99h3mt.4j4.ignoramus@nospam.invalid… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Kevin Stone <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote: > * Our relationshio has various small problems ie… insistence on using only > * Amway products (even if I don,t like that particular product) Granted Amway > * has some good products, But as any Company does they also have some bad ones > * or just plain some too expensive ones. I love my wife with all my heart, > * sometimes tho it seems that the Amway brainwashing borders on the > * ridiculous. By the way I am a former Amway brainwashee so I do know the > * other side and underrstand how they think. I was pretty disturbed by the way > * the marketing was carried out and the type of person I was turning out to be > * when I was involved. > That’s interesting. So, what kind of brainswashing do they do? What > kinds of people do they recruit? Why are they successful? > igor > * Thanks for all the response, keep it coming > * > * Kevin > * —– Original Message —– > * From: CupCaked <karensSP…@nac.net> > * Newsgroups: alt.support.marriage > * Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 9:36 AM > * Subject: Re: Amway > * > * > * > "Kevin Stone" <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote: > * > > * > >Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does their > * way > * > >of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > * > > * > That’s a VERY provocative question.  May I ask what brought it about? > * > > * > > * > > * >    http://www.cupcaked.com/cupcaked > * >  (and leave off the "potatoes" > * CupCaked <karensSP…@nac.net> wrote in message > * news:3aa09f57.22892148@news.nac.net… > * > "Kevin Stone" <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote: > * > > * > >Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does their > * way > * > >of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > * > > * > That’s a VERY provocative question.  May I ask what brought it about? > * > > * > > * > > * >    http://www.cupcaked.com/cupcaked > * >  (and leave off the "potatoes" to e-mail) > * > * > — > Don’t sweat the petty things and don’t pet the sweaty things. – George

Carlin

Response:

As I’ve seen it described here and as I’ve seen it out here in RL, Amway is a religion of sorts.  It’s things like this that make me jest the concept of religion. ISIS "IgOr" <ignora…@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message

news:slrn99j39n.jm9.ignoramus@nospam.invalid… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Dan Kegel <d…@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote: > * First Light wrote: > * > I’m not a distributor, but I do know a few.  A co-worker was married 16 > * > years when "they" got started in "the business".  That was about 6 years > * > ago.  Their divorce was final last summer.  W said he was never home and > * > found someone to fill in the gap.  Another co-worker says it ruined her > * > daughter’s first marriage for the same reason – one of the two of them was > * > always chasing a sale or going off to one function or another. Another > * > couple  that I know make it work, but that’s because they literally do it > * > side by side.  As I understand the way that it’s structured, it’s > * > together….[or] NOT.  Figuratively and literally. > * > * Yep.  Amway is a lot like a charismatic church… > * there are plenty of fine people in it, but they believe weird things > I have yet to see a "fine" person in MLM. Fine people tend to not like > lying constantly. > — > Don’t sweat the petty things and don’t pet the sweaty things. – George

Carlin

Response:

Larry Kessler <l_k_e_s_s_l_e_r@w_t_._n_e_t> wrote in message

news:4cee9tksrq1jrfqniogd52t0emakba5sn3@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:11:14 -0500, "B and B" > <baboonnliz…@prodigy.net> wrote: > >Aaaauuugggghhhh!!!!!!!!!! > >Stay away!  Stay away!!!! > >Oh, wait.  You were asking about being married to an amway distributor, not > >becoming one. > >Well…I don’t know what to tell you, but given the "borg sphere" mentality > >of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it would cause > >marital problems. > Nitpick Dept:  Most Borg vessels are cubes, not spheres.

Depends on which star trek you are watching.

Response:

"John Kendricks" <jd…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:3a99948c.245820765@news.cis.dfn.de… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Everything you have said is true.  Amway (also now known as Quixtar) > preys on people who cannot afford the things or the lifestyle they > want, and brainwashes them to believe that if they will attend > frequent seminars, spend all their time listening to brainwashing > tapes, buy exclusively from amway or quixtar, and pester their > friends, relatives, coworkers, aquaintances,  people in malls, etc. > nonstop, they will become fabulously wealthy. > Here are some good amway-info links: > http://www.awod.com/gallery/rwav/slarsen/amway.html > http://skepdic.com/amway.html > http://www.apollowebworks.com/amway/ > http://www.freedomofmind.com/groups/amway/amo_qmo.htm > If anyone reading this is planning on getting involved with amway or > quixtar, or is already involved with them, reading the above links > could be the single most important thing you ever do to save yourself > much suffering, misery and agony.

I’ve found that these people who are ‘Quixtar/Amway Critics’ have no credibility at all on the subject, they are usually the most screwed-up-broke-done-nothing-in-life people I’ve ever met. Why on earth would I want to fill my head with a bunch garbage from people who have no credibility in the area of success?  I seriously doubt that these people ‘got in’ then ‘quit’ (actually quit something they probably didn’t put hardly any effort toward) and then when on to be successfull fathers, husbands, entreprenuers, race car drivers or anything.  I bet the the only good things they end up being good at is: justification & rationalization of why they are where they are finanically, complaining, remote control operation and butt print formation (in couch cushions). I’ve seen all sorts of different levels of success in this business opportunity and I’ve seen it actually pull dozens (probably 100s) of marriages together, and these are indirect benefits from any kind of prosperity.  For postive results like these, it requires to a certain amount of effort just like any kind of  business opportunity, job, church, etc. and if a person is too busy (translates to lazy) to apply himself  and put forth effort than he is going to fail. This IS the best business opportunity I have ever seen it provides a level playing field for everyone.  It is structured to make money and the business plan works only if you work it.  Depending upon where you are personally, mentally and emotionally, you may need to learn and develop some personal and business skills that will enable you to build a successful business.  So in order to succeed learn how to learn from someone who has already done what you want to do.  The main goal of business is to make money and this opportunity is a great way to get the money obstacle hurdled in your life unlike most jobs out there.  Jobs are simply not structured to create any kind of wealth for the employee. It IS NOT a religion, if any body tries to enforce their beliefs on you concerning your faith in your creator, they are off base.  This applies to anywhere in life including your boss at your job. Good business is never built on deception and if someone is using any kind of deceptive tactics then you should address this issue directly don’t give up until you are satisfied.  I’ve found that the truly successfull people in this business are very direct, honest and trustworthy; the business is structured so that success is based upon success and it is in nobody’s interest to decieve anybody. If you’re checking out this business, remember to consider the credibility of the person who is providing the information. And make sure to check it out for yourself and don’t listen to broke people or negative attitudes. Good Luck to you in what ever you decide to do -but decide to do something!

Response:

First Light wrote: > I’m not a distributor, but I do know a few.  A co-worker was married 16 > years when "they" got started in "the business".  That was about 6 years > ago.  Their divorce was final last summer.  W said he was never home and > found someone to fill in the gap.  Another co-worker says it ruined her > daughter’s first marriage for the same reason – one of the two of them was > always chasing a sale or going off to one function or another.  Another > couple  that I know make it work, but that’s because they literally do it > side by side.  As I understand the way that it’s structured, it’s > together….[or] NOT.  Figuratively and literally.

Yep.  Amway is a lot like a charismatic church… there are plenty of fine people in it, but they believe weird things – Dan

Response:

Everything you have said is true.  Amway (also now known as Quixtar) preys on people who cannot afford the things or the lifestyle they want, and brainwashes them to believe that if they will attend frequent seminars, spend all their time listening to brainwashing tapes, buy exclusively from amway or quixtar, and pester their friends, relatives, coworkers, aquaintances,  people in malls, etc. nonstop, they will become fabulously wealthy. Here are some good amway-info links: http://www.awod.com/gallery/rwav/slarsen/amway.html http://skepdic.com/amway.html http://www.apollowebworks.com/amway/ http://www.freedomofmind.com/groups/amway/amo_qmo.htm If anyone reading this is planning on getting involved with amway or quixtar, or is already involved with them, reading the above links could be the single most important thing you ever do to save yourself much suffering, misery and agony.

Response:

Just a fishing question here. Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does their way of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? Kevin

Response:

Aaaauuugggghhhh!!!!!!!!!! Stay away!  Stay away!!!! Oh, wait.  You were asking about being married to an amway distributor, not becoming one. Well…I don’t know what to tell you, but given the "borg sphere" mentality of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it would cause marital problems. Kevin Stone <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote in message

news:t9d626mr61ho47@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Just a fishing question here. > Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does their way > of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > Kevin

Response:

>of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it >would cause marital problems.

If *both* are involved (and are devoted to it), it doesn’t seem like it’s a cause of problems. — Tracey Indigo: What sailors do when they see a bar                      —Funky Winkerbean—

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->From: "B and B" >Aaaauuugggghhhh!!!!!!!!!! >Stay away!  Stay away!!!! >Oh, wait.  You were asking about being married to an amway distributor, not >becoming one. >Well…I don’t know what to tell you, but given the "borg sphere" mentality >of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it would cause >marital problems. >Kevin Stone <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote in message >news:t9d626mr61ho47@corp.supernews.com… >> Just a fishing question here. >> Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does they way >> of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? >> Kevin

At the very least, this inquiry could bring up an intersting topic regarding different professions and the effect they might have  on the marriage.  Amway is one of many that has the potential to create its own set of problems within a relationship. jadelee

Response:

Question:

What does everyone use, if at all, for a thermometer?

Numbers are only necessary for bragging.

Of course, they are! For winter camping only, I like to carry one of those minimum registering thermometers that you lay down horizontally beside your sleeping bag. Makes for great stories when you get home! There are so few of us that enjoy winter camping and most of the people in the office really believe that anyone who sleeps outside in the winter is right off their rocker.

I cycle-comute year round.  When I come in on the bicycle and its -40, I don’t have to tell them anything for them to think I’m off my rocker. On teh home front, since I go solo most of the time, I don’t want them to think I am out in too extreme conditions, so I figgure its better if I don’t know.  "Real cold!" is good enough. — Fight Spam! Join CAUCE (Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email)                  at http://www.cauce.org/  It is there as an experiment to see if email spammers scan content — Pete Hickey               |                         |       VEIWIT University of Ottawa      |                         |      mirrors for Ottawa,Ont. Canada K1N 6N5|  (613) 562-5800×1008    |       dyslexics.

Response:

A note regarding those of us who have Garmin GPS’. Some models are able to display temperature inside the case. This was intended specifically for internal calibration functions, but I’ve found it very accurate. It means letting the unit sit awhile in the environment you wish to measure. It can be accessed by specific combined key-presses. For more info, the following address should be enlightening. http://www.celia.mehaffey.com/dale/secret.htm jr

Response:

Actually we are using this for a couple of reasons. — 1. Fun toy 2. Gathering data for the conditions during igloo building with our Icebox product. We do not feel giving inaccurate info to possible customers is right. It is a very nice unit but overkill for most unless you like gadgets.

I love gadgets. How big is this one, and how much does it cost? Adam Marx "Why must I fail at all my attempts at masonry?"

Response:

The Suunto Vector has a thermoeter that seems to be pretty accurate. Along with the thermoeter, you get an altimeter, a compass, and a timepiece with stopwatch and 3 alarms (for cooking chili).

way kewl. how low does the thermometer read? how much do they cost and where can they be had? Cheaper than dirt sells a little coleman zipperpull, thermometer, compass, windchill chart for $2.97, but from the picture it appears it only goes down to about 0F. http://www.campmor.com campmor seems to have the best selection including digital (reads down to -58F), pen shaped (-50F) and keychain/compass(-30F).

Response:

There are so few of us that enjoy winter camping and most of the people in the office really believe that anyone who sleeps outside in the winter is right off their rocker.

Paul,    Mmmmmm! Don’t the respect feel good? "You gotta be nuts".    Ed Huesers    http://www.grandshelters.com

Response:

I have owned several, and while they may be pretty accurate, they will NOT give you an accurate indication of surrounding temperature until some time (manufacturer’s recommendations vary, but they seem to require at least 20 min.) after they are removed from your body (wrist)

I don’t usually take much note of the temp, but a couple of weeks ago I had my Avocet lying on the ground as I set up camp and cooked dinner. As I was starting to clean up I noticed that the Avocet read 39 F while my water bottle had frozen nearly half way from the bottom (I always prop the bottle upside down). I’d guess that for ice to form in your bottle just about fast enough to see it, it must be near 20. Guess it’s time for servicing, unless they are this innacurate by default. — Spammers NOTE: Your email to me is prohibited except for submissions for my proofreading services, for which my fee is $500 per email.

Response:

What kind of experience do you folks have with digital thermometers? I would think they don’t work very well in cold (like 0 degrees fahrenheit) considering reduced battery output and lcd displays are probably very sensitive to cold temperatures.

Well, it does take a while for the display to display what it is displaying at 0F.  Also, the chronometer loses a bit of time at those temperatures.  After a week at shirt-sleeve temperatures, it’s less than a half-second off.  After three nights at 0F, it’s a second or two off. So, is it better to stick with old reliable liquid thermometers?

Better?  Different.  More reliable?  They are easier to break. — Jim Fuller

Response:

What does everyone use, if at all, for a thermometer?

I used to use a little thermometer, but it was in-accurate. I then realized that I didn’t need that kind of accuracy anyway.  Numbers are only necessary for bragging. I have a few indicators.  Water…  If its liquid it’s above freezing, solid below.    If the trees are cracking from the cold it’s even colder.  Inhale through the nose.  If the nose-hairs freeze together, its quite cold.  The volume of the sound when walking on snow gives an indication as well. All these give me enough of an indication of the temperature for practical purposes. -Pete — Fight Spam! Join CAUCE (Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email)                  at http://www.cauce.org/  It is there as an experiment to see if email spammers scan content — Pete Hickey               |                         |       VEIWIT University of Ottawa      |                         |      mirrors for Ottawa,Ont. Canada K1N 6N5|  (613) 562-5800×1008    |       dyslexics.

Response:

    What does everyone use, if at all, for a thermometer?     I used to use a little thermometer, but it was in-accurate.   I then realized that I didn’t need that kind of accuracy   anyway.  Numbers are only necessary for bragging.   Of course, they are! For winter camping only, I like to carry one of those minimum registering thermometers that you lay down horizontally beside your sleeping bag. Makes for great stories when you get home! There are so few of us that enjoy winter camping and most of the people in the office really believe that anyone who sleeps outside in the winter is right off their rocker. — Cheers, Paul Weiss Personal Home Page: http://www.netaccess.on.ca/~cpweiss/ Quote: "To you, it’s a six-pack … to me, it’s a support group!"            "Don’t take life too seriously … nobody gets out alive!"                                                        

Response:

  We use a kestrel 3000, Wind speed,temp,wind chill,barameter,dew point,   humidity, heat stress index.   This is a very nice unit and very light. I can get temp readings in 5 to   10 seconds.   — Oooohhh … now doesn’t that sound like one sexy toy!! — Cheers, Paul Weiss Personal Home Page: http://www.netaccess.on.ca/~cpweiss/ Quote: "To you, it’s a six-pack … to me, it’s a support group!"            "Don’t take life too seriously … nobody gets out alive!"                                                        

Response:

Actually we are using this for a couple of reasons. — 1. Fun toy 2. Gathering data for the conditions during igloo building with our Icebox product. We do not feel giving inaccurate info to possible customers is right. It is a very nice unit but overkill for most unless you like gadgets. — Guy (Gadget Boy) Menge http://www.grandshelters.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We use a kestrel 3000, Wind speed,temp,wind chill,barameter,dew point, humidity, heat stress index. This is a very nice unit and very light. I can get temp readings in 5 to 10 seconds. Wow!  What are you doing?  Hiking or waxing for an olympic XC ski event? — Fight Spam! Join CAUCE (Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email)                  at http://www.cauce.org/  It is there as an experiment to see if email spammers scan content — Pete Hickey               |                         |       VEIWIT University of Ottawa      |                         |      mirrors for Ottawa,Ont. Canada K1N 6N5|  (613) 562-5800×1008    |       dyslexics.

Response:

What does everyone use, if at all, for a thermometer? I am interested in getting one, a digital readout would be nice……any suggestions?

Response:

What does everyone use, if at all, for a thermometer? I am interested in getting one, a digital readout would be nice……any suggestions?

Temperature, for me, has been more of a curiosity than something I need to know.  On a cold winter morning, I like to say, "Golleee, it’s down to 10 degrees out here." I have had two nice liquid-filled thermometers that came in a plastic case. I broke both of them.  Dropped one, and one broke in the pack.  Right now I have a little liquid filled one about an inch long that is sort of a zipper pull, and I put it on one of my pack zippers.  No problem yet. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Visit  http://members.aol.com/MarvWelte/index.html for backpacking info.

Response:

What does everyone use, if at all, for a thermometer? I am interested in getting one, a digital readout would be nice……any suggestions?

The Suunto Vector has a thermoeter that seems to be pretty accurate. Along with the thermoeter, you get an altimeter, a compass, and a timepiece with stopwatch and 3 alarms (for cooking chili). You can get a reasonably good metal-cased conventional "stream" thermometer at almost any fly-fishing outfitter for less cost. — Jim Fuller

Response:

The Suunto Vector has a thermoeter that seems to be pretty accurate. Along with the thermoeter, you get an altimeter, a compass, and a timepiece with stopwatch and 3 alarms (for cooking chili).

Just one thing about those "wristwatch thermometers."  I have owned several, and while they may be pretty accurate, they will NOT give you an accurate indication of surrounding temperature until some time (manufacturer’s recommendations vary, but they seem to require at least 20 min.) after they are removed from your body (wrist).                   The pen is mighter than the devil’s playground              

Response:

We use a kestrel 3000, Wind speed,temp,wind chill,barameter,dew point, humidity, heat stress index. This is a very nice unit and very light. I can get temp readings in 5 to 10 seconds. — Guy Menge http://www.grandshelters.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What does everyone use, if at all, for a thermometer? I am interested in getting one, a digital readout would be nice……any suggestions?

Response:

We use a kestrel 3000, Wind speed,temp,wind chill,barameter,dew point, humidity, heat stress index. This is a very nice unit and very light. I can get temp readings in 5 to 10 seconds.

Wow!  What are you doing?  Hiking or waxing for an olympic XC ski event? — Fight Spam! Join CAUCE (Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email)                  at http://www.cauce.org/  It is there as an experiment to see if email spammers scan content — Pete Hickey               |                         |       VEIWIT University of Ottawa      |                         |      mirrors for Ottawa,Ont. Canada K1N 6N5|  (613) 562-5800×1008    |       dyslexics.

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Question:

  I am headed north of Anchorage next week toward Talkeetna.  Can anyone recommend a tackle shop for supplies and info for me along this route? Thanks. Elbert Bivins

Response:

McAfee’s Fly Shop, Anchorage Mountain View Sports, Anchorage Valley Rod Shop, Wasilla Beyond that you can get some odds and ends stuff at most of the hardware, groceriy, and outdoor shops. In Talkeetna, Steve Mahay at Mahay’s Riverboat Service supports the fly fishing crowd and usually has some supplies. Always a good spot for info. You should also check out the Alaska Flyfishers web site at www.akflyfishers.org They have a flyfishing forum section where you can post questions and get answers to probably most of your questions. Lance Hankins I have nothing against Golf. I suspect it keeps legions of the Unworthy from discovering fly fishing… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I am headed north of Anchorage next week toward Talkeetna.  Can anyone recommend a tackle shop for supplies and info for me along this route? Thanks. Elbert Bivins

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Question:

Hi folks, I’m new to the group, and would like your thoughts on what is the best kayak for fly fishing coastal bays and flats.  I normally fly fish in Christmas Bay (close to Galveston, TX), and use a Zest Two – Ocean Kayak two seater.  It’s kinda tough to handle in a breeze over, say, 10 kts. I’m in the market for a faster boat that will handle higher wind conditions, and would like some input from those more knowledgable than I. Howard About Christmas Bay – http://www.christmasbay.com

Response:

  Hi, the boat of choice here in San Diego for fishing seems to be the Scupper Pro,and Scupper Classic. I own the classic , it weighs48pds. compared to your68pd. zest. The pros weigh 55pds.      I’m able to troll effectivly even when the wind picks up, if the wind picks up while jig fishing or while i’m after halibut i use my sea anchor to slow my drift     Aqua

Response:

I’m new to the group, and would like your thoughts on what is the best kayak for fly fishing coastal bays and flats.  I normally fly fish in Christmas Bay (close to Galveston, TX), and use a Zest Two – Ocean Kayak two seater.  It’s kinda tough to handle in a breeze over, say, 10 kts. I’m in the market for a faster boat that will handle higher wind conditions, and would like some input from those more knowledgable than I.

I’m also a newbie to this thing, but I’ve got a few opinions anyway…  [had my boat for a couple months so far] I know most folks will suggest an open cockpit boat, but don’t write off an enclosed version.   Also, I know most folks tend to prefer getting out of the boat and wade, but I’m not one of them.  I like to start more or less dry, and end more or less dry. I have very little difficulty casting my 8 weight while seated in my kayak. [Dagger Edisto].   But there is also enough deck rigging to support a decent trolling setup, and there was enough mounting and cargo room for me to add an all-around light to help with safe night fishing and transits to duck hunting spots next season.. If you are annoyed by high winds and waves, get a rudder. The difference is mind bogolling. My modest experiences so far: http://www.neosoft.com/~rww/kayak_log.html

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If you are annoyed by high winds and waves, get a rudder. The difference is mind bogolling. My modest experiences so far: http://www.neosoft.com/~rww/kayak_log.html

If I get out I may use a fly rod on the flats, but I have had more luck trolling from my kayak.  I dont know if its the speed or that the boat makes the fish notice my fly or lure but the success rate is pretty good for both bass and blues.  I use a kevlar kayak and a rudder to make the experience "less painful".  I also gave up using a rod from my boat.  I made a hand line device that is very easy to use.  To see one visit my site at:  http://www.jlc.net/~hlevin I usually troll rapalas, rubber eels a fly or other artifical baits. —     Hal     Wilton, NH     Power your boat with carbohydrates,     not hydrocarbons.           http://www.jlc.net/~hlevin                 0                  _O                     0

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If I get out I may use a fly rod on the flats, but I have had more luck trolling from my kayak.  I dont know if its the speed or that the boat

I do good trolling as well. experience "less painful".  I also gave up using a rod from my boat.  I made a hand line device that is very easy to use.  To see one visit my

Give up my rod and reel?  I have a rod holder angled 45 degrees backward, a bit behind the cockpit.  I can paddle (troll) at any speed without interference.  That reminds me…i was trolling at work yesterday..woops!

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Question:

Greetings fellow fur floggers, I have sent the controls to create this newsgroup.  If I have done it right, this should start appearing on newsservers shortly.  Please post a fishing image to help legitimize the ng.   We decided on .fishing, so that it will allow us to grow it to .fishing.fly, .salt, .naked or whatever.   Pray for the new group…(Or as they say in The Ghosts in the Darkness) Prey for the new group. TimW

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Greetings fellow fur floggers, We decided on .fishing, so that it will allow us to grow it to .fishing.fly, .salt, .naked or whatever.  

Given the sex-site spammers that have overrun all the .bin groups I bet you’re not far off with that.  The group appeared here today, so I’ll be looking for posts. — Derek R. Larson           Indiana University       Department of History   "Eastward I go by force, but Westward I go free!"  -H. D. Thoreau

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just a reminder of this groups existence and a call for posts there…it is starting to get some quality images in it. Tks. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Can’t get the group.  My ISP swears I have access to all the groups. Anyone have any ideas? — Mark N. Cahill For E-mail remove the _Remove_This from the reply to address. http://www.geocities.com/Baja/3297

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just a reminder of this groups existence and a call for posts there…it is starting to get some quality images in it. Tks. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Question:

Faster than a broomstick?

Response:

Anyone who claims that Lamiglas rods have slow actions have not cast them. Besides, which line of lamiglas blanks are you referring to G-1000, Certified-Pro, LHS, IM-700? If the higher-end lamiglas blanks have a fault, it is that they are TOO FAST, not too slow.

Lamiglas still makes a line of glass rods.  They are very well made, and have a wonderfully slow action similar to split cane. Their GRAPHITE rods, OTOH, are like lightning. I like their style.  Most folks want a fast rod, but some people don’t, so they make something for everyone. CQ

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(Farkward P. Parkenfarker) writes:    Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    Organization: Prehensile University    Their rods enjoy a certain cachet among steelheaders.  They have slower    actions than many of the high modulus jobs and many people prefer that.    To be fair, they tend to be a bit heavier than the competition. Anyone who claims that Lamiglas rods have slow actions have not cast them.

I bow before your obviously superior knowledge. Besides, which line of lamiglas blanks are you referring to G-1000, Certified-Pro, LHS, IM-700?

I’ve owned two G1000’s and one LHS.  I used them quite a lot, for steelhead and stripers, and I’m sure I know how they cast.   If the higher-end lamiglas blanks have a fault, it is that they are TOO FAST, not too slow.

I’m not sure what I did to provoke this, but if you insist, I’ll agree that Lamiglas makes the fastest damned rods on the planet. — "…but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States." Article VI, US Constitution

Response:

I own three Lamiglass rods.. Two flyrods and a Salmon/steelhead casting rod. The 8.5 ‘ 6/7 wt I have owned and fished steadily for 17 or 18 years. The 9′ 9wt I purchased three years ago for a trip to Alaska and it has been great. I use the Salmon/Steelhead for just that and some saltwater use as well. I have not seen these rods in the catalogs this year. If you can find them, they are a great buy and a great rod. Dave

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Check out:         www.lamiglas.com -tgades

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Check out their web site: www.lamiglas.com I’ve got quite a few of their rods, and I’m happy with them.  EXCELLENT customer service as well.      -tgades

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I own three Lamiglass rods.. Two flyrods and a Salmon/steelhead casting rod. The 8.5 ‘ 6/7 wt I have owned and fished steadily for 17 or 18 years. The 9′ 9wt I purchased three years ago for a trip to Alaska and it has been great. I use the Salmon/Steelhead for just that and some saltwater use as well. I have not seen these rods in the catalogs this year. If you can find them, they are a great buy and a great rod. Dave

Didn’t they have a fire at their plant a few years back?  I had the impression that they either went out of business or did so temporarily. Their rods enjoy a certain cachet among steelheaders.  They have slower actions than many of the high modulus jobs and many people prefer that. To be fair, they tend to be a bit heavier than the competition. — "…but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States." Article VI, US Constitution

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   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    Organization: Prehensile University    Their rods enjoy a certain cachet among steelheaders.  They have slower    actions than many of the high modulus jobs and many people prefer that.    To be fair, they tend to be a bit heavier than the competition. Anyone who claims that Lamiglas rods have slow actions have not cast them. Besides, which line of lamiglas blanks are you referring to G-1000, Certified-Pro, LHS, IM-700? If the higher-end lamiglas blanks have a fault, it is that they are TOO FAST, not too slow. -tgades

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I know nothing of their fly rod blanks, however when I build a custome surf rod for myself or a friend I will use no other blank. They can not be touched !! — "The true Angler is content to fish alone" Brian Di Carlo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone in the news group have any experience with lamiglas rods? I was curious as to whether they are comparable to any of the more well known brands. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Dry Fly

Response:

WHOA CHARLIE!  Are indicating here that you think "lamiglass" must mean that their fly rods are glass-fiber rods? You say it is a ‘cult’ rod?  Where did you ever come up with such a conclusion?  I would certainly call an Orvis Rod a cult rod… Just thought it should be said that Lamiglass Graphite Fly Rods are top of the line and anyone thinking of buying one couldn’t do better anywhere else in the world.

George, I’m sure you don’t hear it very much in this ng, but, you’re absolutely right! (Once again) my brevity has gotten me into trouble. I will write 1000 times, Lamiglas makes an outstanding graphite rod, one of the best, in as fast an action as anyone would want. I was speaking only of the lamiglas glass rods, which do have a strong following, and given the overwhelming popularity of graphite rods, it could be described as a "cult following".  (agree with you about the orvis comment, but the basis of THAT following is a bit more puzzling!). 8^) That said, the glass blanks (and rods?) are still available, and as far as I know, still in production.  I’m planning on building one this year. A nice 4 or 5 wt for the high country.  Can’t wait. Very glad you spoke up.   Guess I hit the Send button a little early on that one! …I haven’t heard anything about Eric Lieser for a long while.  Anyone know what he’s doing lately? Hell of a song writer too.

Can’t help you with that, but I’ll be looking for the CD… CQ

Response:

Does anyone in the news group have any experience with lamiglas rods? I was curious as to whether they are comparable to any of the more well known brands. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Dry Fly

Response:

Does anyone in the news group have any experience with lamiglas rods? I was curious as to whether they are comparable to any of the more well known brands. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

They are great rods, but more of a cult favorite.   I’m speaking of the glass rods here.  They don’t really compare well to the other more popular brands, as they have a slower action, for a slower, more relaxed, style of fishing; sort of a poor-man’s bamboo. CQ

Response:

Does anyone in the news group have any experience with lamiglas rods? I was curious as to whether they are comparable to any of the more well known brands. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Dry Fly

Sweet stuff mate.  many of the "better" brands use Lamiglass blanks.

Response:

Question:

I WAS A LITTLE DISAPPOINTED AT THE SNOBBY ATTITUDE OF THOSE WHOM I ASKED FOR HELP AND ADVICE.

Maybe if you weren’t YELLING at them, they would have been a little more  friendly. Tip: Eliminate drag. When I take less experienced people there, that is usually the biggest problem I have in getting them to catch fish. You need to mend a lot. That’s one of the reasons you see the people in boats catching more fish (there are other reasons). From a boat, you are higher up, and it is easier to eliminate the drag. Plus, the guide will assist you in this process. Using a longer rod will also help, as you can get a more vertical presentation, but it really takes experience to see and understand this drag thing. Good luck, Bill Schudlich Santa Fe, NM

Response:

I WAS A LITTLE DISAPPOINTED AT THE SNOBBY ATTITUDE OF THOSE WHOM I ASKED FOR HELP AND ADVICE. Maybe if you weren’t YELLING at them, they would have been a little more  friendly. Tip: Eliminate drag.

Are you saying that I should leave my bra in the blazer ? Or just wear it on the inside of my vest ? TimW

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ON LABOR DAY I WAS PRIVILEGED TO FISH THE SAN JUAN RIVER. I AM NOT AN EXPERIENCED FLY RODDER BUT AM ANXIOUS TO LEARN. I WAS A LITTLE DISAPPOINTED AT THE SNOBBY ATTITUDE OF THOSE WHOM I ASKED FOR HELP AND ADVICE. EVERY PERSON AROUND ME WAS CATCHING HUGE FISH, JUST LIKE I READ ABOUT. AT 7:00 IN THE EVENING AFTER TRYING ALL DAY I FINALLY HOOKED A 5 LB RAINBOW. WHAT A THRILL. IS THERE ANYONE OUT THERE WHO IS WILLING TO SHARE THIER METHOD FOR CATCHING THESE FINE FISH? I’M SURE YOU CAN IMAGINE MY DAY OF FRUSTRATION. THE TROUT WERE FEEDING VORACIOUSLY ON EMERGERS AND I FELT THAT MY PRESENTATION WASN’T CORRECT. ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED. EVEN A GUIDE REFERRAL WOULD HELP ON MY NEXT JOURNEY…JOHN Hi John It would be my guess that you were in a situation where "drag" was causing your fly to not act like a natural insect.  Drag happens when the various currents grab your fly line and leader consequently pulling the fly accross the current.  You will need to learn a little about reading the water, what the water does to your fly line & fly, and how to mend to compensate for the waters action on your line. As a guide here in Montana getting inexperienced people to recognize drag is a major part of my job.  Explaining it in person can be a challenge, trying to do so over the net is almost impossible.  I suggest you get with your local fly shop and arrange for lessons on reading the water and how to get a "drag free float."  OR you could join a local fly fishing club and learn from a new friend.  Call the Federation of Fly Fishers at 406-585-7592 for information on a club near you. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog)

EXCELLENT ADVICE! George

Response:

ON LABOR DAY I WAS PRIVILEGED TO FISH THE SAN JUAN RIVER. I AM NOT AN EXPERIENCED FLY RODDER BUT AM ANXIOUS TO LEARN. I WAS A LITTLE DISAPPOINTED AT THE SNOBBY ATTITUDE OF THOSE WHOM I ASKED FOR HELP AND ADVICE. EVERY PERSON AROUND ME WAS CATCHING HUGE FISH, JUST LIKE I READ ABOUT. AT 7:00 IN THE EVENING AFTER TRYING ALL DAY I FINALLY HOOKED A 5 LB RAINBOW. WHAT A THRILL. IS THERE ANYONE OUT THERE WHO IS WILLING TO SHARE THIER METHOD FOR CATCHING THESE FINE FISH? I’M SURE YOU CAN IMAGINE MY DAY OF FRUSTRATION. THE TROUT WERE FEEDING VORACIOUSLY ON EMERGERS AND I FELT THAT MY PRESENTATION WASN’T CORRECT. ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED. EVEN A GUIDE REFERRAL WOULD HELP ON MY NEXT JOURNEY…JOHN

Hi John It would be my guess that you were in a situation where "drag" was causing your fly to not act like a natural insect.  Drag happens when the various currents grab your fly line and leader consequently pulling the fly accross the current.  You will need to learn a little about reading the water, what the water does to your fly line & fly, and how to mend to compensate for the waters action on your line. As a guide here in Montana getting inexperienced people to recognize drag is a major part of my job.  Explaining it in person can be a challenge, trying to do so over the net is almost impossible.  I suggest you get with your local fly shop and arrange for lessons on reading the water and how to get a "drag free float."  OR you could join a local fly fishing club and learn from a new friend.  Call the Federation of Fly Fishers at 406-585-7592 for information on a club near you. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog)

Response:

ON LABOR DAY I WAS PRIVILEGED TO FISH THE SAN JUAN RIVER. I AM NOT AN EXPERIENCED FLY RODDER BUT AM ANXIOUS TO LEARN. I WAS A LITTLE DISAPPOINTED AT THE SNOBBY ATTITUDE OF THOSE WHOM I ASKED FOR HELP AND ADVICE. EVERY PERSON AROUND ME WAS CATCHING HUGE FISH, JUST LIKE I READ ABOUT. AT 7:00 IN THE EVENING AFTER TRYING ALL DAY I FINALLY HOOKED A 5 LB RAINBOW. WHAT A THRILL. IS THERE ANYONE OUT THERE WHO IS WILLING TO SHARE THIER METHOD FOR CATCHING THESE FINE FISH? I’M SURE YOU CAN IMAGINE MY DAY OF FRUSTRATION. THE TROUT WERE FEEDING VORACIOUSLY ON EMERGERS AND I FELT THAT MY PRESENTATION WASN’T CORRECT. ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED. EVEN A GUIDE REFERRAL WOULD HELP ON MY NEXT JOURNEY…JOHN

Response:

Question:

fishing in SW MO

Response:

<snip I have for sale a complete set of Orvis 5 wt far and fine rod, battenkill reel,fully outfitted including aluminum case with cover. <snip

Bob, I tried to send you mail at the above address, and my mail kicked it back several times.  Anyway, I’ll give you $325 for the Far and Fine, if you still have it.  Does it still have the reel case, backing and line? Let me know what you think, Kevin

Response:

Hallelujah, hallelujah!

Response:

Regarding the demise of the FF Boom ( Orvis for sale):      First I must say that I AM a yuppie by the standards set by the politically correct, in who knows where. But, I just got LUCKY and succeeded early. In fact, I still consider myself an ex hippie who is still trying to grow up, and most times not sure I really should.  I started FFishing at the age of 15 (on my own) and have flicked the fly now for 25 years.     Now that I have delivered my disclaimor… I have felt for a long time that the sport was getting a little frothy. A few events really got to me in the past year: 1) Brocaw, on the nightly news, announced that there would be a sub anchor because he was goin "Flyfishing in Montana" 2) There was a cellular phone ad on TV with a guy streamside, wrapping up a contract deal on his cellular. 3) A friend of mine, Gus Serven, and I shared a booth at the big FF show in Denver last Sept.  Gus invented "FLOTPAK", a simple device that keeps your floatant hanging from your vest, i.e. available, when you need it, as opposed to having to rummage through your vest to find it.  It is a similar concept to the now famous "Zinger". Well, at the Denver show, there were 5 (FIVE) merchants who had copied his idea and were hawking their new "break-through" product. FLOTPAK had been patented for two years before the show. Flotpak is NOT rocket science…just a simple idea.  If you had the entire world market for the thing it still wouldn’t make a guy rich. 4) Darryl Osborn, of Hamilton, Mt, developed a great personal river float craft called "River Otter". I counted 9 spin-offs at that show.     The above tells me that the bloom is off the rose. Before FF, the social craze was  tennis..then golf..then mountain bikes..etc ..etc.. The GREAT news, from my vantage point, is that FF is no longer the sport of choice among the elite in NY, L.A. or wherever.      Well, its about time! I want to fish in peace. I do feel sorry for the fly shop owners, but the good ones will survive and prosper. Same with the guides. It was fun at first being a fan of the "in" sport ( made me feel like I was doing something important), but I’m glad the fad thing is fading away.  I just feel sorry for the fans of the next sport or pursuit that is ready to accepted by the media mainstream.      So..if we FFishers are finally free  of the avante garde crap, we will blissfully fish in peace! To quote Al Beatty "Halleilula!" Dale Owens

Response:

A year ago I thought I would do a lot of flyfishing. I have since given up the ghost. I have for sale a complete set of Orvis 5 wt far and fine rod, battenkill reel,fully outfitted including aluminum case with cover. I paid over $425 for it. Would someone make me a offer and I will send out, immediately, to you. I also have a Wheatley 16 compartment aluminum fly box and about ten flys. This, I paid over $60 for (not  including flys)..it is still in the origional case unused. The Orvis Far and Fine set I used exactly three times.Anyone interested in making a serious offer either send me a note on this newsboard or contact me via

Response:

: A year ago I thought I would do a lot of flyfishing. I have since given up the : ghost. This is r.o.f.f’s first post from beyond the grave…  I have for sale a complete set of Orvis 5 wt far and fine rod, battenkill : reel,fully outfitted including aluminum case with cover. I paid over $425 for it. : Would someone make me a offer and I will send out, immediately, to you. I also : have a Wheatley 16 compartment aluminum fly box and about ten flys. This, I : paid over $60 for (not  including flys)..it is still in the origional case unused. Ah, the Wheatly fly box- that gorgeous piece of work that looks so refined, so elegant, and so….British. As Geirach points out, everyone who buys one ends up leaving the damn bulky, heavy thing at home and carrying a little plastic box instead –mike

Response:

A year ago I thought I would do a lot of flyfishing. I have since given up the ghost.

I’d like to see about 3 million more posts like this. John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS

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: A year ago I thought I would do a lot of flyfishing. I have since given : up… :I’d like to see about 3 million more posts like this. A couple weeks ago I talked to the guys at a major ff shop here in Seattle.  They said the ff business has "reached a plateau" after some years of continuous growth.  I wondered if perhaps the yuppwardly mobile set was bailing out.  They thought that might be a factor. Sadly, the staff at another (v. major) local ff shop got thinner recently too.  The guys at the first shop thought leaner times were to be blamed.   Best, -AR P.S.  Anybody interested in a lightly used Orvis Jeep?

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