Question:

What is it about color blindness that would impair one’s ability to see a fly on the water ?

It effects your ability to pick out certain colors on certain color backgrounds. For example, I have trouble seeing red objects on a green background, so a red fly on the water with trees reflected would be more difficult to see than the same fly on the water with blue sky reflected. — Charlie…

Response:

What is it about color blindness that would impair one’s ability to see a fly on the water ? It effects your ability to pick out certain colors on certain color backgrounds. For example, I have trouble seeing red objects on a green background, so a red fly on the water with trees reflected would be more difficult to see than the same fly on the water with blue sky reflected. — Charlie…

I’d think that the key to visibility under these conditions would be to use flies. leaders, indicators, etc. that have high contrast differences rather than colour differences.  Red and green have about the same reflectance so somebody with RG colour blindness would have trouble distinguishing a red item against a green background as both would appear to be a similar colour and there would be very little contrast between them. As far as seeing fish – I don’t think that is much of an issue – it becomes a matter of learning the water.  My home river is off colour for most of the season so trying to locate holding fish by sight is damn near impossible.  Unless they’re rising, I fish to likely spots rather than to fish I have seen. Even though I am not colour blind, I spent years as a black & white photographer and after a while, I could visualize a scene in black & white.  I would use a green or red filter if I wanted to emphasize greens and reds.  Take a picture of a red rose against green leaves without a filter and they appear the same grey tone in the photo – add a green filter and the leaves go pale and the rose goes almost black. The green filter allows the green wavelengths to pass through but blocks the reds.  I’m not suggesting that someone who has RG colour blindness wear green sunglasses, but we can take the principles of contrast in B&W photography and apply it to the problem. To help with contrast, Borger suggests using indicators that have a bright colour plus black.  The bright color shows up on dark water and the black shows up against bright water or a light bottom.  In some lighting conditions (e.g. backlighting), even someone with normal colour vision will not be able to see the colours and has to rely on contrast. HTH Peter

Response:

Bob- Post your question to sci.med.vision, and you’ll probably get more information than you’ll care to read. Without knowing anything about the method, I suggest you email the company and ask for a list of "PEER REVIEWED" publications describing the efficacy of their techniques.  If you email me the list you get, I’ll try to figure out if they are peer reviewed or not. If they can’t provide you with this list, hold on to your $700. Of course, if the product is all they say it is, they won’t be afraid to offer a money-back guarantee, would they?? Scott

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, There are relatively new glasses being sold by an outfit called Colormax to supposedly help discriminate between reds and greens.  They are available in prescriptions.  Not sure re polarized availability. They are Very expensive;  about $ 700 per pair, I think. Have Absolutely NO idea if they work or not. I’ve been beating the bushes for about a year now, trying to get opinions on them. Opinions seem very varied.   Some have said they help, others not. Just posting this so you know they exist. —-Anyone else here tried them ??—- Bob — As a relative newbie to flyfishing in the mountain streams of Colorado, I’ve come to realize that my color blindness has proven to be quite a problem in locating fish, flies (wet and dry) and pretty much anything else in the water.  I’ve tried various types of polarized sunglasses but, short of a fluorescent strike indicator, I can’t see anything beyond the end of my flyline.  Any fish I’ve caught have been by sheer luck (although I’d never admit it in public). Has any one else out there had similar problems or know anyone else that has overcome this unfortunate disadvantage?  I’m not a big fan a strike indicators and I look like a pretty big goof tying one above a dry fly, but I’m out of options. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance, Jafo

Response:

FDA TALK PAPER Food and Drug Administration U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Public Health Service 5600 Fishers Lane Rockville, MD 20857 —- FDA Talk Papers are prepared by the Press Office to guide FDA personnel in responding with consistency and accuracy to questions from the public on subjects of current interest. Talk Papers are subject to change as more information becomes available. —- T99-58                                    Sharon Snider:    301-827-6242 December 21, 1999                         Broadcast Media:  301-827-3434                                           Consumer Media:   888-INFO-FDA COLORMAX LENSES The FDA has received a number of media inquiries about ColorMax eyeglass lenses, which are being promoted widely as a way to correct color blindness. Some of the claims in these promotions may be misleading. The following can be used to answer questions: ColorMax lenses, made by Color Vision Technologies, Inc., Tustin, Calif., were cleared for market by FDA in November. They are tinted prescription spectacle lenses intended as an optical aid for people with red-green color vision deficiencies. The lenses do not help wearers perceive or appreciate colors as people with normal color vision do, but merely add brightness/darkness differences to colors that are otherwise difficult or impossible to distinguish. ColorMax lenses are designed to improve discrimination of specific colors that look the same to people with regreen color deficiencies. However, discrimination of at least some other colors is actually impaired. ColorMax lenses are not effective for people who are totally color blind. Very few people are truly color blind, and these lenses will not help them to see colors. Most people with color vision problems have partial color vision deficiencies that make it difficult to distinguish between red and green or between yellow and blue. FDA marketing clearance for ColorMax Lenses is limited to red-green color deficiencies, and does not include yellow-blue deficiencies or total color blindness. http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/ANSWERS/ANS00990.html — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bob- Post your question to sci.med.vision, and you’ll probably get more information than you’ll care to read. Without knowing anything about the method, I suggest you email the company and ask for a list of "PEER REVIEWED" publications describing the efficacy of their techniques.  If you email me the list you get, I’ll try to figure out if they are peer reviewed or not. If they can’t provide you with this list, hold on to your $700. Of course, if the product is all they say it is, they won’t be afraid to offer a money-back guarantee, would they?? Scott Hi, There are relatively new glasses being sold by an outfit called Colormax to supposedly help discriminate between reds and greens.  They are available in prescriptions.  Not sure re polarized availability. They are Very expensive;  about $ 700 per pair, I think. Have Absolutely NO idea if they work or not. I’ve been beating the bushes for about a year now, trying to get opinions on them. Opinions seem very varied.   Some have said they help, others not. Just posting this so you know they exist. —-Anyone else here tried them ??—- Bob — As a relative newbie to flyfishing in the mountain streams of Colorado, I’ve come to realize that my color blindness has proven to be quite a problem in locating fish, flies (wet and dry) and pretty much anything else in the water.  I’ve tried various types of polarized sunglasses but, short of a fluorescent strike indicator, I can’t see anything beyond the end of my flyline.  Any fish I’ve caught have been by sheer luck (although I’d never admit it in public). Has any one else out there had similar problems or know anyone else that has overcome this unfortunate disadvantage?  I’m not a big fan a strike indicators and I look like a pretty big goof tying one above a dry fly, but I’m out of options. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance, Jafo

Response:

As a relative newbie to flyfishing in the mountain streams of Colorado, I’ve come to realize that my color blindness has proven to be quite a problem in locating fish, flies (wet and dry) and pretty much anything else in the water.  I’ve tried various types of polarized sunglasses but, short of a fluorescent strike indicator, I can’t see anything beyond the end of my flyline.  Any fish I’ve caught have been by sheer luck (although I’d never admit it in public). Has any one else out there had similar problems or know anyone else that has overcome this unfortunate disadvantage?  I’m not a big fan a strike indicators and I look like a pretty big goof tying one above a dry fly, but I’m out of options. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance, Jafo

Response:

As a relative newbie … Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Sounds to me like you’re putting too much of the blame on being color blind. It takes practice to see small flies on the water, use parachute patterns when appropriate and keep at it. Good luck, — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Has any one else out there had similar problems or know anyone else that has overcome this unfortunate disadvantage?  I’m not a big fan a strike indicators and I look like a pretty big goof tying one above a dry fly, but I’m out of options. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance, Jafo

Open up the window, Jafo, and let me catch my breath!! (Momma told me not to come..) I, too, am afflicted with the recessive sex-linked form of red-green color blindness, and it drives me nuts.  I’m not much of a trout fisher, but I do a lot of flats fishing, primarily for bonefish.  I have a really hard time with the subtle shades of grey, tan, white, and green on the flats.  The good news is that, with experience, your ability to interpret what you see will improve. My opthalmologist suggested amber or yellow lenses-don’t know that they help. Disregard what the "normal guy" says-he hasn’t walked in your waders.   Interestingly enough, the Army Air Corp and the USAF recruited color blind guys to serve in reconnasance planes during WWII because once trained, they were not as likely to be fooled by camoflage coverings on enemy istallations. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

I’m 50% color blind.  I have a real problem "Matching the trout hatch".  So I ask the fly shop guys in the destination area what the fish are hitting and have them detail the patterns with each color identified by number, vendor and any other details.  This is really important for my dubbing and colors which someone has to help me with. On the water, I go for white water where sight fishing isn’t that important as I have the same trouble seeing fish.  But I cast such a big shadow, I gotta get hid, stay low and take my time watching for action, insects, forage, birds, etc..  But, isn’t that what fishing is all about anyway? Just be patient and enjoy the experience.  It’ll come. Good luck. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a relative newbie to flyfishing in the mountain streams of Colorado, I’ve come to realize that my color blindness has proven to be quite a problem in locating fish, flies (wet and dry) and pretty much anything else in the water.  I’ve tried various types of polarized sunglasses but, short of a fluorescent strike indicator, I can’t see anything beyond the end of my flyline.  Any fish I’ve caught have been by sheer luck (although I’d never admit it in public). Has any one else out there had similar problems or know anyone else that has overcome this unfortunate disadvantage?  I’m not a big fan a strike indicators and I look like a pretty big goof tying one above a dry fly, but I’m out of options. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance, Jafo

Response:

Hi, There are relatively new glasses being sold by an outfit called Colormax to supposedly help discriminate between reds and greens.  They are available in prescriptions.  Not sure re polarized availability. They are Very expensive;  about $ 700 per pair, I think. Have Absolutely NO idea if they work or not. I’ve been beating the bushes for about a year now, trying to get opinions on them. Opinions seem very varied.   Some have said they help, others not. Just posting this so you know they exist. —-Anyone else here tried them ??—- Bob

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a relative newbie to flyfishing in the mountain streams of Colorado, I’ve come to realize that my color blindness has proven to be quite a problem in locating fish, flies (wet and dry) and pretty much anything else in the water.  I’ve tried various types of polarized sunglasses but, short of a fluorescent strike indicator, I can’t see anything beyond the end of my flyline.  Any fish I’ve caught have been by sheer luck (although I’d never admit it in public). Has any one else out there had similar problems or know anyone else that has overcome this unfortunate disadvantage?  I’m not a big fan a strike indicators and I look like a pretty big goof tying one above a dry fly, but I’m out of options. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance, Jafo

Response:

Have you considered making your own leaders and using Stren Hi-Vis Gold line (or some other high visibility line) for some or all of the leader/tippet? Certainly there are plenty of folks out there who use this line and catch fish, even on the surface.  I know some non-color-blind folks who do this to eliminate the need for a strike indicator (they are serious nymphers).  You could at least buy a spool of 2-4lb test line try using it for tippet material.  You’d only be out a few bucks either way and if it works, you’d have a solution to your dilemma. Tom G with two red-green color-blind friends, neither of whom fly fish–now I know why

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a relative newbie to flyfishing in the mountain streams of Colorado, I’ve come to realize that my color blindness has proven to be quite a problem in locating fish, flies (wet and dry) and pretty much anything else in the water.  I’ve tried various types of polarized sunglasses but, short of a fluorescent strike indicator, I can’t see anything beyond the end of my flyline.  Any fish I’ve caught have been by sheer luck (although I’d never admit it in public). Has any one else out there had similar problems or know anyone else that has overcome this unfortunate disadvantage?  I’m not a big fan a strike indicators and I look like a pretty big goof tying one above a dry fly, but I’m out of options. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance, Jafo

Response:

… with two red-green color-blind friends, neither of whom fly fish–now I know why

Like another poster to this thread pointed out, red-green color blind people were recruited as aerial spotters, this would indicate to me that the color blindness doesn’t impair visual acuity. What is it about color blindness that would impair one’s ability to see a fly on the water ? Not doubting for one minute that it’s true, just wondering. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

… with two red-green color-blind friends, neither of whom fly fish–now I know why Like another poster to this thread pointed out, red-green color blind people were recruited as aerial spotters, this would indicate to me that the color blindness doesn’t impair visual acuity. What is it about color blindness that would impair one’s ability to see a fly on the water ? Not doubting for one minute that it’s true, just wondering.

I have a friend with RG colorblindness, and he is a pretty good flyfisherman.  The last time I fished with him, he caught a dozen trout between 12 and 20 inches during a caddis hatch on the Madison, to my one. Kevin

Response:

I have a friend with RG colorblindness, and he is a pretty good flyfisherman.  The last time I fished with him, he caught a dozen trout between 12 and 20 inches during a caddis hatch on the Madison, to my one.

If you were only catching 1 inch fish, you were probably using the wrong color fly.

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Question:

Well we survived  . . .  barely. You see, it’s been raining, and it’s spring, and there’s been some snow melt.  That ends up with lots of high, dirty water.  We tried Friday, we tried Saturday, and tomorrow we’re going to the fishing show.  We know when we’re beat. Louie tried his nymphs, I tried my wets and Greg threw what ever he had but it made no difference – only the whistle trout were interested.   Louie did hook into one steelhead but since he had no idea what he was doing, he lost it.  The dumb ass – the only decent fish we were gonna see in those conditions and he lost it! On Friday, Louie puts on his new Patagonia waders, his new Patagonia, jacket, his new Patagonia whatever, . . . and one very shitty pair of boots.  At the end of the day, the boots had to go.  On Saturday, we went to Grindstone for new boots and Louie was outfitted with a new pair of Weinbrenners.  We’re suiting up and there’s Louie in his Patagonias (Orvis is officially fashion history) and there he is in his new boots, all set to fish with the tags still attached.  And I fish with this guy!!!!! Greg’s a little bemused by all of this and he’s beginning to wonder what he’s getting himself into.  I try to reassure him but the damage has been done.  Anyway we went, we came, we saw, we left defeated. Now we sit, drowning our sorrows in what ever is handy, ice wine, bordeaux, Macallans, Wild Turkey – hell, you make do with what you have. Cheers Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Louie did hook into one steelhead but since he had no idea what he was doing, he lost it.  The dumb ass – the only decent fish we were gonna see in those conditions and he lost it!

Well is he hooked? On Friday, Louie puts on his new Patagonia waders, his new Patagonia, jacket, his new Patagonia whatever

Speaking of Patagonia, I was fishing the surf a few weeks ago when suddenly all these people show up with fly gear.  I was packing up after having caught a croaker.  I never did too well in this spot and never saw anyone else fly fishing so it was a bit of a surprise to realize that I’m not the only fool who likes to hang around a polluted river mouth whipping tungsten-laden PVC through the air at the end of a graphite stick.  Turns out they work at Patagonia and often conduct *field research* after work. Mu

Response:

On Friday, Louie puts on his new Patagonia waders, his new Patagonia, jacket, his new Patagonia whatever, . . . and one very shitty pair of boots.  At the end of the day, the boots had to go.  On Saturday, we went to Grindstone for new boots and Louie was outfitted with a new pair of Weinbrenners.  We’re suiting up and there’s Louie in his Patagonias (Orvis is officially fashion history) and there he is in his new boots, all set to fish with the tags still attached.  And I fish with this guy!!!!!

Peter, part of the art of flyfishing is *lookg* right. Any one who looks the part earns the comment -"There’s a real fly fisher" If no fish are caught then it’s the dumb fish’s fault! I’ll bet the accommodation was first class though. — Bill Grey http://www.billboy.co.uk

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Question:

I just finished reading,      EVEN BROOK TROUT GET THE BLUES  by John Gierach.  I have to say,  this was one trite, anal, "matter-of-fact-" piece of literature. The amount of contradictions makes me laugh my ass off.  Here is an example: Mr. Gierach goes on and on and on about the virtues of wild game food, and how it is so good for you.  He also claims it is superior to store bought food.  Here is a quote from that book, page 121, second paragraph: " wild food is GOOD food: low in fat and cholesterol without preservatives, tasty and right there in your hand or landing net free for the taking. Putting too much distance between yourself and this obvious reality is not productive" Then, on page 122, 3rd paragraph:  " the battered fillets are deep fried in oil. Peanut oil is best, but vegetable oil will do." Hilarious!  Not only is the batter    on the fish full of preservatives, but he is basically drowning his   "low fat, cholesterol free food"   in tons of fat and grease.  Nice one Mr. Gierach!   Next time you preach to the guilty about the wonders of wild game food, make sure you try not to COMPLETELY smother out the taste AND benefits of that food by deep frying it. What a joke. I laugh at these "wild food enthusiasts"  who claim  to love the food, yet try to completely hide any of the original flavor of the fish or meat by frying or saucing the hell out of it. Many of the things Gierach does are silly.   He is so anal and "matter- of-fact"  concerning so many issues one must wonder if this guy ever gets away from his set crowd.  It’s clear he is lacking in any kind of cultural development.   His  "simplistic" life philosophy is marred and gouged by so many incosistencies a beginner fly caster could put loops through them. Occasionaly Gierach starts heading in a good direction, but his aformentioned problems quickly swallow  up whatever interesting course he was trying to follow. Another thing, is the guy is plainly an alcoholic.  Now, we all know Traver was as well, but at LEAST Traver was a good writer. There’s nothing more annoying than an alcoholic who is still drinking.  His whole philosophy  is probably the end result of that, full of matter-of- fact standoff-ishness and "simplistic" stances on life.  I have seen this type. They are a dime a dozen, claiming wild meat so superior, drinking away their days, and spouting the super simplistic lifestyle while contradicting themsleves in EVERY conceivable fashion. boo-hoo  Mr. Gierach.   Where did the Robert Traver’s go? —-Muskie Before you buy.

Response:

gee, he’s always said nice things about you 8<) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just finished reading,      EVEN BROOK TROUT GET THE BLUES  by John Gierach.  I have to say,  this was one trite, anal, "matter-of-fact-" piece of literature. The amount of contradictions makes me laugh my ass off.  Here is an example: Mr. Gierach goes on and on and on about the virtues of wild game food, and how it is so good for you.  He also claims it is superior to store bought food.  Here is a quote from that book, page 121, second paragraph: " wild food is GOOD food: low in fat and cholesterol without preservatives, tasty and right there in your hand or landing net free for the taking. Putting too much distance between yourself and this obvious reality is not productive" Then, on page 122, 3rd paragraph:  " the battered fillets are deep fried in oil. Peanut oil is best, but vegetable oil will do." Hilarious!  Not only is the batter    on the fish full of preservatives, but he is basically drowning his   "low fat, cholesterol free food"   in tons of fat and grease.  Nice one Mr. Gierach!   Next time you preach to the guilty about the wonders of wild game food, make sure you try not to COMPLETELY smother out the taste AND benefits of that food by deep frying it. What a joke. I laugh at these "wild food enthusiasts"  who claim  to love the food, yet try to completely hide any of the original flavor of the fish or meat by frying or saucing the hell out of it. Many of the things Gierach does are silly.   He is so anal and "matter- of-fact"  concerning so many issues one must wonder if this guy ever gets away from his set crowd.  It’s clear he is lacking in any kind of cultural development.   His  "simplistic" life philosophy is marred and gouged by so many incosistencies a beginner fly caster could put loops through them. Occasionaly Gierach starts heading in a good direction, but his aformentioned problems quickly swallow  up whatever interesting course he was trying to follow. Another thing, is the guy is plainly an alcoholic.  Now, we all know Traver was as well, but at LEAST Traver was a good writer. There’s nothing more annoying than an alcoholic who is still drinking.  His whole philosophy  is probably the end result of that, full of matter-of- fact standoff-ishness and "simplistic" stances on life.  I have seen this type. They are a dime a dozen, claiming wild meat so superior, drinking away their days, and spouting the super simplistic lifestyle while contradicting themsleves in EVERY conceivable fashion. boo-hoo  Mr. Gierach.   Where did the Robert Traver’s go? —-Muskie Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just finished reading,      EVEN BROOK TROUT GET THE BLUES  by John Gierach.  I have to say,  this was one trite, anal, "matter-of-fact-" piece of literature. The amount of contradictions makes me laugh my ass off.  Here is an example: Mr. Gierach goes on and on and on about the virtues of wild game food, and how it is so good for you.  He also claims it is superior to store bought food.  Here is a quote from that book, page 121, second paragraph: " wild food is GOOD food: low in fat and cholesterol without preservatives, tasty and right there in your hand or landing net free for the taking. Putting too much distance between yourself and this obvious reality is not productive" Then, on page 122, 3rd paragraph:  " the battered fillets are deep fried in oil. Peanut oil is best, but vegetable oil will do." Hilarious!  Not only is the batter    on the fish full of preservatives, but he is basically drowning his   "low fat, cholesterol free food"   in tons of fat and grease.  Nice one Mr. Gierach!   Next time you preach to the guilty about the wonders of wild game food, make sure you try not to COMPLETELY smother out the taste AND benefits of that food by deep frying it. What a joke. I laugh at these "wild food enthusiasts"  who claim  to love the food, yet try to completely hide any of the original flavor of the fish or meat by frying or saucing the hell out of it. Many of the things Gierach does are silly.   He is so anal and "matter- of-fact"  concerning so many issues one must wonder if this guy ever gets away from his set crowd.  It’s clear he is lacking in any kind of cultural development.   His  "simplistic" life philosophy is marred and gouged by so many incosistencies a beginner fly caster could put loops through them. Occasionaly Gierach starts heading in a good direction, but his aformentioned problems quickly swallow  up whatever interesting course he was trying to follow. Another thing, is the guy is plainly an alcoholic.  Now, we all know Traver was as well, but at LEAST Traver was a good writer. There’s nothing more annoying than an alcoholic who is still drinking.  His whole philosophy  is probably the end result of that, full of matter- of- fact standoff-ishness and "simplistic" stances on life.  I have seen this type. They are a dime a dozen, claiming wild meat so superior, drinking away their days, and spouting the super simplistic lifestyle while contradicting themsleves in EVERY conceivable fashion. boo-hoo  Mr. Gierach.   Where did the Robert Traver’s go? —-Muskie

 Muskie, if you deep fry something at the correct temperature the out side is seared shut almost instantly. The heat of the oil then cooks the food. If then drained on paper towels you’re not really eating food "drowned" in oil. Remember the old Wesson oil commercial with the loaf of bread ? Gierach has admitted he’s an alcoholic in print, stating in a recent book that he had to quit drinking several years ago. I don’t see the contradictions you speak of represented in his writings in such massive amounts. Sure, a few here and there but the guy’s human. I enjoy him for the most part. It sounds almost like he’s done something personal to you. Bob Before you buy.

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…a "recovered" alcoholic can be MUCH more annoying.

I’ll drink to THAT!

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Peanut oil is great stuff!! Use it once and you will never go back to canola or corn oil. Gierach is a great writer. He’s probably a great cook too.

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The amount of contradictions makes me laugh my ass off. Many of the things Gierach does are silly. It’s clear he is lacking in any kind of cultural development. …so many incosistencies a beginner fly caster could put loops through them. Occasionaly Gierach starts heading in a good direction, but his aformentioned problems…

You sure do a lot of talking about his "many" problems, but you only mentioned 2.  And of those, only one was pertinent to your "book review".  (Alcoholism is not the point – how he writes is the point.) So.. you’ll either have to provide more or be considered an exaggerater. Regards, Jeff

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LOL!  that was a good one It’s easy enough to see if you look closely: "PEA…NUT oil" observer unfamiliar with the phrase dipping the old fillet into the oil).

Regards, Jeff

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Wolfgang Yeah, I got the same sense of his post. Like he is calling out for Gierach, expressing a deep groinial need to dis what he really desires. Its kind of like when Roadrunner is off the set eating a donut, and you see that empty stare of the truely lonely, beyond the kleig lights, past the makeup, you just know that a hug from the Key Grip, or maybe the Folli guy is what the ole runmiester could use. Dave Points of lite man, points of lite.

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 Nope.     Alot of the oil and fat stick around.  Thats what makes the cooki-crumbly apsect of the batter.    You are still getting more fat and cholesterol by  deep frying. This is no better than cow-steaks or bacon.

Mmmmmm…Cow-steaks and bacon….

Response:

 Nope.     Alot of the oil and fat stick around.  Thats what makes the cooki-crumbly apsect of the batter.    You are still getting more fat and cholesterol by  deep frying. This is no better than cow-steaks or bacon. Mmmmmm…Cow-steaks and bacon….

And donuts… — Charlie…

Response:

 \  Muskie, if you deep fry something at the correct temperature the out side is seared shut almost instantly. The heat of the oil then cooks the food. If then drained on paper towels you’re not really eating food "drowned" in oil. Remember the old Wesson oil commercial with the loaf of bread ?\   Nope.     Alot of the oil and fat stick around.  Thats what makes the cooki-crumbly apsect of the batter.    You are still getting more fat and cholesterol by  deep frying.

really?!?!?, frying means more fat? yep, all fish should be baked, steamed, or boiled… with no seasonings… if you don’t like it like that then you shouldn’t eat fish <G. This is no better than cow-steaks or bacon.

whoever invented bacon should get a nobel prize for good taste. chris

Response:

 Lol.  Let’s find the hidden meaning in Wolfgangs post: Don’t let it get to you Joe.  Poor Muskie’s post is actually a cry for help. OBVIOUSLY he’s got the hots for Gierach and he doesn’t quite know how to deal with his feelings. It’s easy enough to see if you look closely:

  (This one might escape the casual observer unfamiliar with the phrase dipping the old fillet into the

oil).   It’s kind of sad really, but there’s not much we can do about it. I’m afraid we’ll just have to let old Muskie work through this on his own.

" We’ll…just…have…to…gang….dipping….it" "let….this….easy….old….fillet..get..to..you" " Im ….afraid…..got…hots…Geirach" " sad…feelings…obviously..work….." -Muskie Before you buy.

Response:

That was a pretty lame comeback,Muskie.Wolfie got you pretty good and I guess you’ll just have to take it like a man.(oops don’t quote me on that.)Serves you right for disrespecting Gierach.People don’t buy his books just to get information about cooking game or for flyfishing tips,( he is continuously disavowing his own expertise),he’s just a good writer period.Their aren’t many out there.I can barely get halfway through most of the flyfishing magazine articles I read because they are so full of cliches.

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You are still getting more fat and cholesterol by  deep frying. really?!?!?, frying means more fat?

Well, what do you think it’s deep IN? Regards, Jeff

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"let….this….easy….old….fillet..get..to..you"

Wow, so really…. Wolfgang and Muskie have a thing going?  I’m getting confused now… Maybe Wolfgang is Muskie’s father… "Search your feelings Muskie, you know it to be true."   "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" Regards, Jeff

Response:

<snip Que?

Response:

\ That was a pretty lame comeback,Muskie.Wolfie got you pretty good and I guess you’ll just have to take it like a man.\

Hey I laughed at his post. \.Their aren’t many out there.I can barely get halfway through most of the flyfishing magazine articles I read because they are so full of cliches.\

  Chock full. —-Muskie Before you buy.

Response:

 \  Muskie, if you deep fry something at the correct temperature the out side is seared shut almost instantly. The heat of the oil then cooks the food. If then drained on paper towels you’re not really eating food "drowned" in oil. Remember the old Wesson oil commercial with the loaf of bread ?\

  Nope.     Alot of the oil and fat stick around.  Thats what makes the cooki-crumbly apsect of the batter.    You are still getting more fat and cholesterol by  deep frying. This is no better than cow-steaks or bacon.   \ Gierach has admitted he’s an alcoholic in print, stating in a recent book that he had to quit drinking several years ago.\

No kidding. I didn’t know that. His alcoholism was just so apparent to me  from reading EVEN BROOK TROUT GET THE BLUES. \ I don’t see the contradictions you speak of represented in his writings in such massive amounts. Sure, a few here and there but the guy’s human. I enjoy him for the most part. It sounds almost like he’s done something personal to you.\

He has. He wasted my time. —Muskie Before you buy.

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[snipped] OT: There was one time when this sort of literary license bugged the shit out of me.   My wife insisted on seeing the movie "Message in a Bottle" (criminy, what a chick movie).   It was supposed to be set in North Carolina, but was so obviously filmed in New England that I cringed everytime there was a waterfront scene.   It ruined any chance I had (damned little) of enjoying the movie.

Hmm? I thought it was supposed to be set in Massachusetts, but they filmed it in Maine to get away from the Boston Teamsters… While I’m here – I disagree with Muskie’s "There’s nothing more annoying than an alcoholic who is still drinking." Au contraire: a "recovered" alcoholic can be MUCH more annoying. /daytripper (neither current nor recovered, thanks ;^)

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 Nope.     Alot of the oil and fat stick around.  Thats what makes the cooki-crumbly apsect of the batter.    You are still getting more fat and cholesterol by  deep frying. This is no better than cow-steaks or bacon. Mmmmmm…Cow-steaks and bacon…. And donuts… —

Mmmmmm donuts; and beer!  Sweet beautiful beer!

Response:

Oh the hell with it.   I was going to write a thoughtful response; but f*ck that cros-posted troll bullshit.

Don’t let it get to you Joe.  Poor Muskie’s post is actually a cry for help. OBVIOUSLY he’s got the hots for Gierach and he doesn’t quite know how to deal with his feelings. It’s easy enough to see if you look closely: "PEA…NUT oil" observer unfamiliar with the phrase dipping the old fillet into the oil). It’s kind of sad really, but there’s not much we can do about it.  I’m afraid we’ll just have to let old Muskie work through this on his own.

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I just finished reading,      EVEN BROOK TROUT GET THE BLUES  by John Gierach.  I have to say,  this was one trite, anal, "matter-of-fact-" piece of literature. (snip) boo-hoo  Mr. Gierach.   Where did the Robert Traver’s go?

        having read your effort at literary criticism, i am convinced that they did not go into the gierach dissing business.         wayno

Response:

I just finished reading,      EVEN BROOK TROUT GET THE BLUES  by John Gierach.  I have to say,  this was one trite, anal, "matter-of-fact-" piece of literature. (snip) boo-hoo  Mr. Gierach.   Where did the Robert Traver’s go?    having read your effort at literary criticism, i am convinced that they did not go into the gierach dissing business.

Ask not for whom the troll posts… — Charlie…

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Ask not for whom the troll posts… — Charlie…

That’s baaad, ten lashes with a sinktip for that one. Peter

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Oh the hell with it.   I was going to write a thoughtful response; but f*ck that cros-posted troll bullshit. I read Gierach.   I enjoy his stories.   I don’t give a rat’s ass how he cooks his food.   Since when are fishing tales supposed to be a paragon (zenith?) of accuracy?   (Damn. Where’s my Webster’s?)   Christ, what’d he do to you, boink your grandma? OT: There was one time when this sort of literary license bugged the shit out of me.   My wife insisted on seeing the movie "Message in a Bottle" (criminy, what a chick movie).   It was supposed to be set in North Carolina, but was so obviously filmed in New England that I cringed everytime there was a waterfront scene.   It ruined any chance I had (damned little) of enjoying the movie. Joe F. Joe F.

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Question:

Sounds like you need a chill pill.If you don’t want to read it don’t click on it. Sometimes I see some new or even good Things that has been posted by Manufacters or Tackle shops.I don’t guess it was you that posted the following.      FLY FISHIN’ LURE FOR SALE! Newsgroups:   rec.outdoors.fishing [More Headers] [Subscribe to rec.outdoors.fishing]<Picture make offer. never been used. nothin’ wrong with it. refunds available email me you adress if you interested ill deal with you the amount your willing to pay danyrat  TRYING TO SELL SOMETHING  IN THE NEWS GROUP ARE YOU!!!   GEEZE GET A LIFE <’(((<  Work is for people that don’t like to fish <’(((<

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DITTO!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sounds like you need a chill pill.If you don’t want to read it don’t click on it. Sometimes I see some new or even good Things that has been posted by Manufacters or Tackle shops.I don’t guess it was you that posted the following.      FLY FISHIN’ LURE FOR SALE! Newsgroups:   rec.outdoors.fishing [More Headers] [Subscribe to rec.outdoors.fishing]<Picture make offer. never been used. nothin’ wrong with it. refunds available email me you adress if you interested ill deal with you the amount your willing to pay danyrat  TRYING TO SELL SOMETHING  IN THE NEWS GROUP ARE YOU!!!   GEEZE GET A LIFE <’(((<  Work is for people that don’t like to fish <’(((<

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I don’t know about Danyrat, but some of the best vendors I’ve found have come from the newsgroups. The lure manufacturers who do sales over the Internet make stuff about 999% better than the mass market junk. Matthew Carter "Fishing with Matt" http://www.albany.net/~buzzbait/fishing/index.htm

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Thanks Buzzbait, I guess its us little folk that really keep things going. After all if it weren’t for us ,where would those big companies come from.Hell everything starts out as an idea. Oh yea while yer at it, how bout stoppin by The RodCrafters Journal. Wer’e small and trying to grow. http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/2865 The RodMaker

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Question:

Don’t be so insecure, Muskie; nobody’s looking down their nose at you. In terms of making the kinds of choices you describe, e.g. where to fish, what kind of fish to fish for and etc., the reason the vast majority of people fish the way they do is *not* ethics, its aesthetic preference

Question:

Try rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Sorry can’t help you with the hatch.

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: Folks, : Is there a flyfishing newsgroup? If so, would most appreciate the : address. I can’t seem to get my server to list all the available groups. : Thanks and would really appreciate e-mail. : BTW, anyone know what kind of hatch might be going on at a subalpine : lake (9,000) in western Montana? This for a novel I’m writing. rec.outdoors.fishing.fly rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying

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Folks, Is there a flyfishing newsgroup? If so, would most appreciate the address. I can’t seem to get my server to list all the available groups. Thanks and would really appreciate e-mail. BTW, anyone know what kind of hatch might be going on at a subalpine lake (9,000) in western Montana? This for a novel I’m writing.

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Rainbows and cutts will interbreed in the wild, but it’s a little more complicated than that.  For example, they won’t interbreed where they evolved together in the same river because they occupy different niches and spawn differently (West slope cutts and redband rainbow exist together in several rivers).  However, if you introduce rainbow into waters where cutthroats are native and rainbow are not, such as the Madison, they will interbreed.  Such is the danger of stocking. I don’t normally like to see stocking in rivers that support wild trout, but if the rainbows (non-native planted in the 30’s) are done for in the Madison, and they want to re-introduce the native west slope cutthroat from pure strain stocks (which they believe they have), it would be nice to have the native fish back in the Madison.  

Hi Dan, Glad to see you back on the group. The Montana fish and game people I’ve talked with also advised that the cutthroat spawn in the tributaries where there is not whirling disease and stay there for a couple of years before returning to the main river. In that time their skeletal structure grows from grissle to bone — their skeleton is supposed to be only effected by the disease when it is in the grissle state. Rainbows on the others hand spawn in the tributaries and return to the main river soon after while their skeletal structure is still grissle. Have a great 1997. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 materials catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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 Rainbows and cutts will interbreed in the wild, but it’s a little more complicated than that.  For example, they won’t interbreed where they evolved together in the same river because they occupy different niches and spawn differently (West slope cutts and redband rainbow exist together in several rivers).  However, if you introduce rainbow into waters where cutthroats are native and rainbow are not, such as the Madison, they will interbreed.  Such is the danger of stocking.

The Montana DFW page ( http://fwp.mt.gov/ ) has some great info on the project.   The impression I get is that even though cutts and bows will cross breed when stocked together, they don’t expect much in the way of cross breeding because there are so few rainbows left in the Madison. I don’t normally like to see stocking in rivers that support wild trout, but if the rainbows (non-native planted in the 30’s) are done for in the Madison, and they want to re-introduce the native west slope cutthroat from pure strain stocks (which they believe they have), it would be nice to have the native fish back in the Madison.  the areas they are talking about re-stocking with Cutts is being checked for the prescence of tubifex worms (carriers of whirling disease) and thought to have low quantities of both tubifex worms and infected rainbows. The question then becomes how much stocking is enough, and how long will it take to develop wild natives from the hatchery natives.   Of course, they could just leave it alone and let the brown trout take over, but then they aren’t as easy to catch as the cutts.                                          Hmmmmm,                                               Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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Al, Thanks for sharing this information with us.  This is indeed very interesting.  Here in Oregon we have a lot of native cutthroat and they are great to fish.  They will attack a fly like it’s the last morsel on earth.  The hatcheries like to stock them (they are hardier) as well as a cross they produce with rainbow they call a cutbow.  I wonder if the cutts and rainbow would cross in the Madison.  I don’t know if they will cross in the wild.  we have streams that contain both.  If they did where would the young grow?

  Rainbows and cutts will interbreed in the wild, but it’s a little more complicated than that.  For example, they won’t interbreed where they evolved together in the same river because they occupy different niches and spawn differently (West slope cutts and redband rainbow exist together in several rivers).  However, if you introduce rainbow into waters where cutthroats are native and rainbow are not, such as the Madison, they will interbreed.  Such is the danger of stocking. Rob Gregoire                                                        | Pocatello, Id              

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  There is a plan afoot to stock the Madison  with Westslope Cutt’s . Visit     http"//fwp.mt.gov/    and take a look. Sounds good so far … any thoughts ? if so, CC to   Dave Hagengruber   Harry

Hi Harry I know there will be those against the plan but after a long conversation with a Montana fish biologist I’m supporting the plan.  What he shared with me was very encouraging based on a whole lot of information I can not put in here but basically this is it in a very boiled down version: Cutthroat trout spawn in small tributaries and REMAIN there for a couple of years (while their bones turn from grissle to real bone). Rainbows spawn in the tributaries and return to the main river while their bones are still grissle rather than bone. Supposedly whirling disease attacks the fish while their skeletal structure is still grissle. This is a short version of a several hour discussion with the folks that seem to know a heck of a lot more than I do. Will it work? I have no ideas but the stuff they shared with me sounded good at least. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 materials catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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  There is a plan afoot to stock the Madison  with Westslope Cutt’s . Visit     http"//fwp.mt.gov/    and take a look. Sounds good so far … any thoughts ? if so, CC to   Dave Hagengruber I’ll take cutt’s in montana over bows, browns and brookies any day of the week.  They belong there, right ? TimW

I agree, they where there years back, just like the Grayling. I do not know if the plan will work but I like the idea of "something" being done to try and combat WD.   Hm  

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  There is a plan afoot to stock the Madison  with Westslope Cutt’s . Visit     http"//fwp.mt.gov/    and take a look. Sounds good so far … any thoughts ? if so, CC to   Dave Hagengruber   Harry

Response:

 There is a plan afoot to stock the Madison  with Westslope Cutt’s . Visit     http"//fwp.mt.gov/    and take a look. Sounds good so far … any thoughts ? if so, CC to   Dave Hagengruber  Harry

   Sorry, fat fingers, the URL is    http://fwp.mt.gov/      Harry  ( Nice page in any event g< )

Response:

  There is a plan afoot to stock the Madison  with Westslope Cutt’s . Visit     http"//fwp.mt.gov/    and take a look. Sounds good so far … any thoughts ? if so, CC to   Dave Hagengruber

I’ll take cutt’s in montana over bows, browns and brookies any day of the week.  They belong there, right ? TimW

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   There is a plan afoot to stock the Madison  with Westslope Cutt’s . Visit     http"//fwp.mt.gov/    and take a look. Sounds good so far … any thoughts ? if so, CC to   Dave Hagengruber I’ll take cutt’s in montana over bows, browns and brookies any day of the week.  They belong there, right ? TimW I agree, they where there years back, just like the Grayling. I do not know if the plan will work but I like the idea of "something" being done to try and combat WD.  Hm  

Ain’t WHIRLING DISEASE somethin them square dancer get when they dance too long? DJones

Response:

While stocking always sounds like a good idea, fact is that it was stocking hatchery fish that brought whirling disease into existing populations. There is also the matter of genetic intergression if one stocks fish from another watershed into another where a native stock already exists.  If the Madison is completely devoid of cutts, intergression would not be a problem; however if any native fish remain, their genes will be lost when the new stock takes over. — Don Jordan POB 2357 Chiefland, FL 32644 http://ripserv.com/indyjones

Its my understanding that the rainbow below Quake Lake were restocked after the earthquake because of fisk kill resulting from the landslide at Quake Lake.  Can some of you Montanans with long memories shed any light on this? Jim

Response:

While stocking always sounds like a good idea, fact is that it was stocking hatchery fish that brought whirling disease into existing populations. There is also the matter of genetic intergression if one stocks fish from another watershed into another where a native stock already exists.  If the Madison is completely devoid of cutts, intergression would not be a problem; however if any native fish remain, their genes will be lost when the new stock takes over. — Don Jordan POB 2357 Chiefland, FL 32644 http://ripserv.com/indyjones

Response:

While stocking always sounds like a good idea, fact is that it was stocking hatchery fish that brought whirling disease into existing populations.

No, Don.    What brought whirling disease into existing populations was stocking SICK hatchery fish.  Stocking per se is not the problem. that is not to say, however, tht it is the solution either.  I think that it is not. But, although I am generally opposed to stocking hatchery fish in rivers where there are wild populations, I have become convinced this idea withthe cutts may be worth a try.  I had most of my reservations addressed by the excellent coverage of the project on the Montana FW&P web page.  You really ought to check it out.  I can’t give you the exact address, but you should be able to get to it.  Let me know if you cannot, and I will get it for you. There is also the matter of genetic intergression if one stocks fish from another watershed into another where a native stock already exists.  If the Madison is completely devoid of cutts, intergression would not be a problem; however if any native fish remain, their genes will be lost when the new stock takes over.

I am not a biologist, but I do not believe this will be a problem. Take a look at the discussion I just cited.  As I stated, I generally am not a supporter of stocking in wild trout waters, an even stronger opponent is Dick Vincent whose 1970’s study led to the cessation of stocking in Montana rivers.  He is in favor of the proposed project with the cutts.  That says a lot to me. Lyman Lyman G. Hughes Dallas, TX Ennis, MT

Response:

snip   I had most of my reservations addressed by the excellent coverage of the project on the Montana FW&P web page.  You really ought to check it out.  I can’t give you the exact address, but you should be able to get to it.   Lyman G. Hughes snip

Montana’s web page addres is:  http://www.fwp.mt.gov/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dallas, TX Ennis, MT

Response:

  There is a plan afoot to stock the Madison  with Westslope Cutt’s . I’ll take cutt’s in montana over bows, browns and brookies any day of the week.  They belong there, right ? TimW

I think you are right.  The cutthroat are always native it seems in our most inaccessible waters in the west.  So they surely belong.  A damn great fighter too. -Burton

Response:

  There is a plan afoot to stock the Madison  with Westslope Cutt’s . Cutthroat trout spawn in small tributaries and REMAIN there for a couple of years (while their bones turn from grissle to real bone). Rainbows spawn in the tributaries and return to the main river while their bones are still grissle rather than bone. Supposedly whirling disease attacks the fish while their skeletal structure is still grissle. This is a short

Al, Thanks for sharing this information with us.  This is indeed very interesting.  Here in Oregon we have a lot of native cutthroat and they are great to fish.  They will attack a fly like it’s the last morsel on earth.  The hatcheries like to stock them (they are hardier) as well as a cross they produce with rainbow they call a cutbow.  I wonder if the cutts and rainbow would cross in the Madison.  I don’t know if they will cross in the wild.  we have streams that contain both.  If they did where would the young grow? -Burton

Response:

Its my understanding that the rainbow below Quake Lake were restocked after the earthquake because of fisk kill resulting from the landslide at Quake Lake.  Can some of you Montanans with long memories shed any light on this? Jim

Good question.  I don’t know the answer specifically, but stocking was fairly common in the Madison until Dick Vincent’s study showed that stocking actually was detrimental to the wild trout fishery.  I believe that study was in the early 70’s.   The quake was in ‘59, so what you suggest is possible. Lyman Lyman G. Hughes Dallas, TX Ennis, MT

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   There is a plan afoot to stock the Madison  with Westslope Cutt’s . I’ll take cutt’s in montana over bows, browns and brookies any day of the week.  They belong there, right ? TimW I think you are right.  The cutthroat are always native it seems in our most inaccessible waters in the west.  So they surely belong.  A damn great fighter too. -Burton

Burton    "point your browser to"         http://fwp.mt.gov/      Nice page, good info   HM

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – cross they produce with rainbow they call a cutbow.  I wonder if the cutts and rainbow would cross in the Madison.  I don’t know if they cross in the wild.  we have streams that contain both.  If they Rainbows and cutts will interbreed in the wild, but it’s a little more complicated than that.  For example, they won’t interbreed where they evolved together in the same river because they occupy different niches and spawn differently (West slope cutts and redband rainbow exist together in several rivers).  However, if you introduce rainbow into waters where cutthroats are native and rainbow are not, such as the Madison, they will interbreed.  Such is the danger of stocking. Rob Gregoire

Ah so, that’s what I suspected.  Thanks for the response Rob.  I know the McKenzie River had redsides and cutthroat both, but the cutts are only found in the lower reaches of the river.  There are rainbows in the lower part of the river, but I have never caught a cutt in the upper rainbow rich region. Merry Christmas to all and Happy New Year, -Burton

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Question:

I’ve decided, a little too late, that the grip I’ve mounted on my Sage 9′ 7wt blank is much too thin in diameter.  I want to go with a full Wells. While I’m at it I might as well change the seat. Does anyone have any ideas on how to best remove the grip and seat which are expoxied  to the blank?  Or is it beyond hope?  TIA.

Response:

I use a Dremel Moto-tool with a cutting disc and slice the reel seat lengthwise in two spots opposite each other on the seat.  Be careful not to cut into the blank.  A flat blade screwdriver inserted into the cut and twisted does the rest.  For the cork, a utility knife and a pair of channel lock pliers are my weapons of choice. Like was suggested earlier, get rid of as much of the old epoxy as possible.  I shave it off with the utility knife.  Before starting the new handle, wrap the butt of the blank with thread and epoxy to build it up level.  This way the new grip can be installed from the butt and you won’t have to redo the guides as well. If you decide to use heat to break the epoxy bond under the reel seat, be extremely careful.  Remember that it’s basically the same epoxy that holds the fibers of the blank together. — Carl Woods Richmond, VA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve decided, a little too late, that the grip I’ve mounted on my Sage 9′ 7wt blank is much too thin in diameter.  I want to go with a full Wells. While I’m at it I might as well change the seat. Does anyone have any ideas on how to best remove the grip and seat which are expoxied  to the blank?  Or is it beyond hope?  TIA.

Response:

(Arnold Kaida) writes: I’ve decided, a little too late, that the grip I’ve mounted on my Sage 9′ 7wt blank is much too thin in diameter.  I want to go with a full Wells. While I’m at it I might as well change the seat. Does anyone have any ideas on how to best remove the grip and seat which are expoxied  to the blank?  Or is it beyond hope?  TIA.

I’d try to heat the reelseat in boiling water and breakdown the epoxy. DO NOT apply a flame to the reelseat. After removing the reelseat use a razor to remove most of the cork, then lightly sand the rest off the blank without sanding into the graphite. Then (guessing from ucla.edu) head down to Bob Marriott’s in Fullerton and pick out your new reelseat and cork grip. Make sure they match each other. Epoxy them on with 5 minute epoxy (In case of future replacement needs this glue will breakdown with heat). Wrap blank with 1/4" strips of masking tape to build the blank up to proper O.D. to match the reelseat/grip I.D’s. Don Burns

Response:

I’ve decided, a little too late, that the grip I’ve mounted on my Sage 9′ 7wt blank is much too thin in diameter.  I want to go with a full Wells. While I’m at it I might as well change the seat. Does anyone have any ideas on how to best remove the grip and seat which are expoxied  to the blank?  Or is it beyond hope?  TIA.

The grip is no problem, but the reel seat can be tough to dislodge. There are various means of getting the seat off, most of which involve lots of heat and risk to the blank. My suggestion is to stick to replacing the grip, unless you are really unhappy with the seat.  Replacing the seat is nto a "whiel you are at it" task.  To get the grip off, just carve it off with a knife.  As you get closer to the blank, you might want to sand off the last fraction of an inch so that  you don’t risk nicking the blank.  Once the grip is off, take off the stirpper guide and any other guide on the butt section of the rod.  If you are using a preformed grip to replace the old, simply fit the new grip to the blank by sliding it over the ferrule end of the butt section.  Ream out the grip or build up the blank with masking tape so that there is a proper fit.  Then replace the winding check and stripper guide.   Lyman Lyman G. Hughes Dallas, TX Ennis, MT

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Arnold Kaida) writes: I’ve decided, a little too late, that the grip I’ve mounted on my Sage 9′ 7wt blank is much too thin in diameter.  I want to go with a full Wells. While I’m at it I might as well change the seat. Does anyone have any ideas on how to best remove the grip and seat which are expoxied  to the blank?  Or is it beyond hope?  TIA. I’d try to heat the reelseat in boiling water and breakdown the epoxy. DO NOT apply a flame to the reelseat. After removing the reelseat use a razor to remove most of the cork, then lightly sand the rest off the blank without sanding into the graphite. Then (guessing from ucla.edu) head down to Bob Marriott’s in Fullerton and pick out your new reelseat and cork grip. Make sure they match each other. Don Burns

Thanks Don.  The seat refused to budge after soaking in boiling water. So, I finally cut it off with my Dremel mototool and a cutting disk. Wish I had decided to do this before the Flyfishing Fair a couple of weeks ago.  I could have saved a 60 mile drive.  Did you see the distance casting demo by Steve Ratjeff (sp?) the G. Loomis rep? Amazing.

Response:

Check out our home page at www.compleat-angler.com

Response:

I’ve decided, a little too late, that the grip I’ve mounted on my Sage 9′ 7wt blank is much too thin in diameter.  I want to go with a full Wells. While I’m at it I might as well change the seat. Does anyone have any ideas on how to best remove the grip and seat which are expoxied  to the blank?  Or is it beyond hope?  TIA.

There is really nothing that is quick.  Perhaps the easiest way to remove the reel seat  is to hold the butt end of the rod in a pot of boiling water on the stove for about fifteen minutes or so; this will make the epoxy reasonably plastic, and you should be able to pull it off with a strong tug before it cools (use oven mitts, of course).  If you have a wood insert, it will be ruined, but they are reasonably inexpensive. For the grip, the only way I know of is to slice and dice the cork and carefully sand off most of the remaining epoxy.   Works for me; I do it every time…. Joe I.

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Question:

I am a commercial fisherman. I fish 8 hours a day in Naples, Florida. Recently, I found a product that has helped my commercial fishing. KAILUME LIGHTSTICKS (http://www.lightsticks.com) has developed a product that will blow your mind away. My daily catch has tripled since I’ve used Kailume’ 1 inch and 6 inch lightsticks. Check out the site and see for yourself…YOU WILL NEVER FISH THE SAME AGAIN!! Happy fishin’ fellas!! Brian Isn’t fishing with lights illegal in most states? Dan

Isn’t fishing for customers inappropriate in most news groups? Jim

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I am a commercial fisherman. I fish 8 hours a day in Naples, Florida. Recently, I found a product that has helped my commercial fishing. KAILUME LIGHTSTICKS (http://www.lightsticks.com) has developed a product that will blow your mind away. My daily catch has tripled since I’ve used Kailume’ 1 inch and 6 inch lightsticks. Check out the site and see for yourself…YOU WILL NEVER FISH THE SAME AGAIN!! Happy fishin’ fellas!! Brian

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am a commercial spamerman. I spam 8 hours a day in Naples, Florida. Recently, I found a product that has helped my commercial spaming. KAILUME SPAM (http://www.spam.com) has developed a product that will blow your mind away. My daily catch has tripled since I’ve used Kailume’ 1 inch and 6 inch spamsticks. Check out the site and see for yourself…YOU WILL NEVER SPAM THE SAME AGAIN!! Happy spamin’ fellas!! Brian

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: I am a commercial fisherman. I fish 8 hours a day in Naples, Florida. : Recently, I found a product that has helped my commercial fishing. : KAILUME LIGHTSTICKS (http://www.lightsticks.com) has developed a : product that will blow your mind away. My daily catch has tripled since : I’ve used Kailume’ 1 inch and 6 inch lightsticks. Check out the site : and see for yourself…YOU WILL NEVER FISH THE SAME AGAIN!! Okay, genius, tell me a good fly that uses a 6" Cyalume stick…

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I am a commercial fisherman. I fish 8 hours a day in Naples, Florida. Recently, I found a product that has helped my commercial fishing. KAILUME LIGHTSTICKS (http://www.lightsticks.com) has developed a product that will blow your mind away. My daily catch has tripled since I’ve used Kailume’ 1 inch and 6 inch lightsticks. Check out the site and see for yourself…YOU WILL NEVER FISH THE SAME AGAIN!! Happy fishin’ fellas!! Brian

Isn’t fishing with lights illegal in most states? Dan

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: : Isn’t fishing for customers inappropriate in most news groups? : : Jim : Not if you use a LIGHTSTICK, and a little spam.   just kidding  :) : : : : : : : : : : — — Bruce Barnard

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…YOU WILL NEVER FISH THE SAME AGAIN!! Okay, genius, tell me a good fly that uses a 6" Cyalume stick…

See above. . . Jim Boise

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a commercial fisherman. I fish 8 hours a day in Naples, Florida. Recently, I found a product that has helped my commercial fishing. KAILUME LIGHTSTICKS (http://www.lightsticks.com) has developed a product that will blow your mind away. My daily catch has tripled since I’ve used Kailume’ 1 inch and 6 inch lightsticks. Check out the site and see for yourself…YOU WILL NEVER FISH THE SAME AGAIN!! Happy fishin’ fellas!! Brian Isn’t fishing with lights illegal in most states? Dan

How does one fish with a lightstick? (assuming it is legal in your state) In the water, on your person, boat, etc??

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Dan How does one fish with a lightstick? (assuming it is legal in your state) In the water, on your person, boat, etc??

I find lightsticks real handy when doing an all nighter going after threshers. Just take one and stuff it up a mackeral’s ass and let him swim around. mmmmm   mmmmmm  goood!! University Computing Services                           71533,1011 University of Southern California I love the smell of Netware in the morning.  Smells like…victory!!

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  How does one fish with a lightstick? (assuming it is legal in your   state) In the water, on your person, boat, etc?? Well Frank, just in case you’re not trolling, I’ll mention a couple of ways. Here in the Northwest we get to go after steelhead in the Snake River every fall. The impoundments behind the dams hold a lot of slack water and a lot of people fish from shore with sliding bobbers. At night it’s pretty common for people to rubber band a 1" light stick to their bobbers so they can see them. If the light disappears, set the hook! It beats going to bed… Also, I’ve used commercial jigs that had a short piece of surgical tubing tied onto the hook shaft. Insert a lightstick and jig away… I’ve never caught a steelhead with that setup, but it looked interesting. On a side note, I put a used light stick back into it’s foil wrapper and store till the next night in my camper’s freezer because I’m a cheap sob and can get several hours of night fishing for two nights using one lightstick.

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: :   How does one fish with a lightstick? (assuming it is legal in your :   state) In the water, on your person, boat, etc?? A story I often repeat that is relevant with the above topic. Seems I was pier fishing for salmon some years back. A bunch of us were out an hour or so before dawn. Everyone was using glow-in-dark type lures. Charging them up next to a lantern and then throwing them out for the salmon to bite. I asked in a rather loud voice "Hey does it make any of you guys nervous to eat a fish that likes to eat things that glow in the dark?" It got very quiet on the pier that morning. Good fishing, All About Computers      | (810) 456-3894 (work) 2887 Pontiac Ct.         | (810) 373-6865 (home) Auburn Hills, Michigan   | Single and not taking applications. 48326                    | Interviews maybe.

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Brian, you need to tell us the technique. Do you put a hook on the lightstick? or a reel?  Or…just hang it over the side of the boat to attract minnows/smaller fish??? Sam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a commercial fisherman. I fish 8 hours a day in Naples, Florida. Recently, I found a product that has helped my commercial fishing. KAILUME LIGHTSTICKS (http://www.lightsticks.com) has developed a product that will blow your mind away. My daily catch has tripled since I’ve used Kailume’ 1 inch and 6 inch lightsticks. Check out the site

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: :   How does one fish with a lightstick? (assuming it is legal in your :   state) In the water, on your person, boat, etc??

Frankly, if you need to use light sticks or a lantern to lure fish…you are a crappy fisherman. I asked in a rather loud voice "Hey does it make any of you guys nervous to eat a fish that likes to eat things that glow in the dark?"

Ooh…that’s nasty. S.

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: :   How does one fish with a lightstick? (assuming it is legal in your :   state) In the water, on your person, boat, etc?? Frankly, if you need to use light sticks or a lantern to lure fish…you are a crappy fisherman.

That’s spelled crappie  ;-) . You don’t have to use bait or a fly either; in both cases, you just might catch more fish if you do! — Richard W. (Dick) Lander; sportsman, Macintosh devotee, proponent of personal liberty. *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * *  *

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Brian, you need to tell us the technique. Do you put a hook on the lightstick? or a reel?  Or…just hang it over the side of the boat to attract minnows/smaller fish??? Sam I am a commercial fisherman. I fish 8 hours a day in Naples, Florida. Recently, I found a product that has helped my commercial fishing. KAILUME LIGHTSTICKS (http://www.lightsticks.com) has developed a product that will blow your mind away. My daily catch has tripled since I’ve used Kailume’ 1 inch and 6 inch lightsticks. Check out the site

Do these light sticks have a fuse?

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : :   How does one fish with a lightstick? (assuming it is legal in your :   state) In the water, on your person, boat, etc?? Frankly, if you need to use light sticks or a lantern to lure fish…you are a crappy fisherman. That’s spelled crappie  ;-) . You don’t have to use bait or a fly either; in both cases, you just might catch more fish if you do! —

Don’t know ’bout that, but I’d recommend ultra-light sticks for crappie.

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Don’t know ’bout that, but I’d recommend ultra-light sticks for crappie.

Or maybe put a dimmer on it.

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: : Frankly, if you need to use light sticks or a lantern to lure : fish…you are a crappy fisherman. : : Or you could be a crappie fisherman.  Or a crappy crappie fisherman. Or a crappy crappie fisherman that couldn’t catch crap. —      Mario de Sales               |      Pro patria mori".   Wilfred Owen

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Hi All, I read these groups all the time but, this is my first post and I am hoping to get some guidence from all you pros. Last year I purchased a 12′ Sears alum. fishing boat and a 3.5hp Seaking motor from the guy nextdoor due to a split between him and his wife. I got he package for $200.00 and I thought this was an Ok deal… The 3.5 aircooled motor is a little scetchy but, I figure and expansion chamber and some 108 Octaine fuel and maybe I could get a wake…. :*) Well yesterday the wife who still lives nextdoor told me she has a Yamaha 4hp motor and a Humming Bird LCD fish finder. When I asked how much she told me figure it out. Any ideas what would be fair for the package?? Also, before he ended up, lets say, incapacitated for at least the next 10 years (the only fishing this guy will be doing will be at Pellican Bay and yes, he deserves it) he used to take the 12′ boat and this 4hp motor out in Halfmoon Bay (I am in San Jose CA by the way) and fish for Salmon and such…. I have never been in the bay in anything less then 26′, is it safe to take a 12′ alum. in the bay fishing??? Any suggestions for safety or words of wisdom like "don’t do it"……. Positive feed back would also be a good thing :*). Best regards, Len Ball

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Frankly, if you need to use light sticks or a lantern to lure fish…you are a crappy fisherman.

I use them, but not to lure fish. I use small ones (Lunker Lite brand) that come with a small piece of clear plastic tubing. I put the light stick on the end of a pencil bobber, and use that so I can see my bobber at nite. I know in Washington it’s illegal to use light as an attractant. I guess I’m not sure how a game warden would view what I do, but it’s not my intent to use the light as an attractant. It’s a very small stick, only an inch or so long. It’s on the top of the bobber, sticking out of the water. I usually run several feet of line down to my hook, sometimes to where my bait is on the bottom, so I really doubt the fish are taking my bait because of the light stick. I don’t see any increase of my catch when I use the light sticks, it’s just a hell of a lot easier than using lanterns, flashlights, etc. to see the bobber. You get that same little thrill of seeing your bobber go down, except this way you just watch the light stick, and when it dissappears under the surface, you know it’s time to set the hook! Try it, you’ll like it! Pete               "Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time."                                 Monty Python     Pete LaPlant                     *       http://nwlink.com/~pete/             *

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Frankly, if you need to use light sticks or a lantern to lure fish…you are a crappy fisherman.

Is that crappy or crappie?

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about,  Re: Fishing With LIGHTSTICKS!!: Frankly, if you need to use light sticks or a lantern to lure fish…you are a crappy fisherman. Is that crappy or crappie?

A white perch by any other name. — R. E. Harmon National Rifle Association Life Member Texas State Rifle Association Life Member

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – about,  Re: Fishing With LIGHTSTICKS!!: Frankly, if you need to use light sticks or a lantern to lure fish…you are a crappy fisherman. Is that crappy or crappie? A white perch by any other name. — R. E. Harmon National Rifle Association Life Member Texas State Rifle Association Life Member

Fishing at night with lightsticks is the accepted way of catching broadbills off the South African coast.  In fact, it is only since the discovery of this form of fishing that the area has been identified as one of the worlds prime broadbill terratories.

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Question:

Does anyone have any information on the FF only area of the Big Bushkill Creek?  Specifically regarding getting a permit to fish the Ressica Falls Boy Scout area? Thanks Sam Stump

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"Sam Stump" wrote… Does anyone have any information on the FF only area of the Big Bushkill Creek?  Specifically regarding getting a permit to fish the Ressica Falls Boy Scout area?

You can get the (cheap) permit at the office at Ressica Falls, or Cradle of Liberty Council Boy Scouts of America 1485 Valley Forge Road Wayne, PA  19087-1346 Well worth it: beautiful water, and very well stocked with big trout. Timothy Juvenal

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A buddy and I are planning a first-time trip to the Big Bushkill near the Delaware Water Gap in Pennsylvania.  I’d appreciate any information re: conditions, whether this river fishes well in early April and flies to use. Thanks Michael

Michael, one of the best places to fish the Bushkill is at the Boy Scout reservation at Resaca Falls.  Take Rt. 80 to the Marshalls Creek exit (about a mile after the tolls at the Water Gap).  Take Rt. 209 north until the stop sign.  Make a right and then a left at the next light (Bait & Tackle shop on left, shopping mall on right).  Make a quick right onto Rt. 402 north and stay on that for about 6-7 miles until you reach the Boy Scout reservation.  It is a fly-fishing only area.  Streamers and nymphs will work the best in early April.  There is a good Hendrickson hatch in late April-early May, followed by March Browns.  Good luck!  

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i grew up on that water, rally in my back yard near easton. Opening day and for a few weeks after that water is elbow to elbow. its been a while since i’ve gone back. i might take the drive this year though just to relive memories. Grant in PA good luck

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A buddy and I are planning a first-time trip to the Big Bushkill near the Delaware Water Gap in Pennsylvania.  I’d appreciate any information re: conditions, whether this river fishes well in early April and flies to use. Thanks Michael

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Good advise . Make sure to stop at the scout office before you fish. They are very nice people and are responsible for making this water available to us for fishing. The will also give you info as where to fish.                                       Good luck  

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