Question:

What is the relationship between flyline weight and weight carrying capacity (eg, lbs)?

Response:

Jtfunai: <<What is the relationship between flyline weight and weight carrying capacity (eg, lbs)? None, although a 1 wt line might be easier to "break" than an 8 wt. I have never heard of anyone breaking their line on *anything*. The tippet is the first thing to break. Dave L.

Response:

What is the relationship between flyline weight and weight carrying capacity (eg, lbs)?

There basically is no real relationship. The breaking strain of the fly-line core is the main criterion here, and this is far higher than is likely ever to be broken by a fish, assuming it is not damaged.  The weight of a fly-line is primarily determined by its coating, irrespective of the core diameter, which is basically a plastic full of glass bubbles in the case of a floater, and with lead or other powder in the case of a sinker.  The core of the line is invariably a synthetic such as Terylene or similar, and may vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, as does the coating.  The "breaking strain" of a fly-line is basically irrelevant, and is seldom given by the manufacturer.  I remember seeing a level floating  line some years ago where the B.S. was given, as 60 lbs, but have not seen any such data recently. TL MC

Response:

Thanks Dave. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jtfunai: <<What is the relationship between flyline weight and weight carrying capacity (eg, lbs)? None, although a 1 wt line might be easier to "break" than an 8 wt. I have never heard of anyone breaking their line on *anything*. The tippet is the first thing to break. Dave L.

Response:

Thanks Mike. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the relationship between flyline weight and weight carrying capacity (eg, lbs)? There basically is no real relationship. The breaking strain of the fly-line core is the main criterion here, and this is far higher than is likely ever to be broken by a fish, assuming it is not damaged.  The weight of a fly-line is primarily determined by its coating, irrespective of the core diameter, which is basically a plastic full of glass bubbles in the case of a floater, and with lead or other powder in the case of a sinker.  The core of the line is invariably a synthetic such as Terylene or similar, and may vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, as does the coating.  The "breaking strain" of a fly-line is basically irrelevant, and is seldom given by the manufacturer.  I remember seeing a level floating  line some years ago where the B.S. was given, as 60 lbs, but have not seen any such data recently. TL MC

Response:

I agree with the other two posts with regards to weight of quarry and breaking strength of the line.  There are to many factors that would determine the breaking strength of the line while being fished.  Such as the rod and tippet being used.  The tippet will usually break before the rod and the rod before the line.  With the shock absorbing capabilities of the rod and the leader or tippet it is hard to imagine the line ever breaking on a fish unless it had been cut on something. I however just broke a Rio 9/10/11 Spey line on a snag in the Thompson River.  I was never able to see what it was snagged on but it must have been sharp.  Line weight really has no correlation with the weight of fish.  Although you would not want to use a small diameter line such as a one weight for Tarpon! Before you buy.

Response:

I agree with the other two posts with regards to weight of quarry and breaking strength of the line.  There are to many factors that would determine the breaking strength of the line while being fished.  Such as the rod and tippet being used.  The tippet will usually break before the rod and the rod before the line.  With the shock absorbing capabilities of the rod and the leader or tippet it is hard to imagine the line ever breaking on a fish unless it had been cut on something. I however just broke a Rio 9/10/11 Spey line on a snag in the Thompson River.  I was never able to see what it was snagged on but it must have been sharp.  Line weight really has no correlation with the weight of fish.  Although you would not want to use a small diameter line such as a one weight for Tarpon! Before you buy.

Response:

There is no relationship as far as I know. Traditional fly lines have a dacron core of only 20-35lb breaking strain (light lines with the thinner dacron) – of course this is plenty for normal fishing conditions. If the lines are old and cracked the dacron can deteriorate reducing the breaking strain. I know a couple of people who have broken the line when using 10kg tippet on tuna – one was a heavily used old Cortland, the other an Airflo (when they were at their worst). I broke a 3M wet cell IV once in Fiji after snagging it on the reef – it seemed like 80lb!! Some of the newest lines with braided monofilament may be stronger. Cheers John Knight Sydney FlyRodders’

Response:

What is the relationship between flyline weight and weight carrying capacity (eg, lbs)?

Hi JF, I think that lines #4, 5, 6 and 7 are built up on a 20# braided dacron core. #8 and larger are built on a 30# braided dacron core. I guess the new #0, 1 and 2 lines are on something smaller in diameter than 20#? This is real evident when you are trying to pull 30# backing or cheap 20# backing up inside the core of a #6 line to make a needle nail knot.

Response:

Question:

Just in the last few years my interest in fly fishing has changed from the occasional outing to my favorite pastime. I’ve traded in my wild whitewater kayak weekends to sit waist deep in the Ausable river and to think that I’ve never took advantage of the Miramichi while living in NB. Now, I’m ready to return only to find out I need a guide since I’m no longer a resident. Can this be this true???? DC

Response:

Yes it is. Chris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just in the last few years my interest in fly fishing has changed from the occasional outing to my favorite pastime. I’ve traded in my wild whitewater kayak weekends to sit waist deep in the Ausable river and to think that I’ve never took advantage of the Miramichi while living in NB. Now, I’m ready to return only to find out I need a guide since I’m no longer a resident. Can this be this true???? DC

Response:

Look at the post about Miramichi guide requirements some weeks ago for further info.  Yes you do need a guide.  Count yourself as just another victim of the provincial system! David – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just in the last few years my interest in fly fishing has changed from the occasional outing to my favorite pastime. I’ve traded in my wild whitewater kayak weekends to sit waist deep in the Ausable river and to think that I’ve never took advantage of the Miramichi while living in NB. Now, I’m ready to return only to find out I need a guide since I’m no longer a resident. Can this be this true???? DC

Response:

Sorry to say Dave, it is very true. Get in touch with Mr. Heroux from Dieppe. He is a guide and he can give you more info on the subjet. Send me a private e-mail and I’ll give you his address (e-mail) Take care Just in the last few years my interest in fly fishing has changed from the occasional outing to my favorite pastime. I’ve traded in my wild whitewater kayak weekends to sit waist deep in the Ausable river and to think that I’ve never took advantage of the Miramichi while living in NB. Now, I’m ready to return only to find out I need a guide since I’m no longer a resident. Can this be this true???? DC

– Michel Lajoie Le Moucheux http://www3.sympatico.ca/moucheux/

Response:

Question:

  Early one morning on Nokomis Lake (about 60 miles NW of Southend SK/Reindeer Lake) we were startled by a "snorting and huffing" sound in the water, less than 30m away from our canoe… we were paddling 200m from shore, and saw 2 (?adult) otters "standing" in the water for a better view of the "intruder" (us?)…didn’t realize that they were able to raise themselves out of the water quite so high. (As if "standing upright")…the snorting and huffing continued until we were beyond hearing.   I wonder what the "otter-ese" version of this encounter might have been? I don’t think they were as pleased to see us, as we were to mark their "indignation". —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

Response:

We had a family of them under our house several years back. Noisy, messy, smelly. mike

Response:

I saw 3 otters while fly fishing on the McCloud River (CA) in the Nature Conservancy Preserve 2 years ago.  There I was in water up to my chest peacefully working a hole when the calm was shattered by a huge splash, then another and another. Scared the bejesus out of me.  I looked around and saw nothing.  A few seconds later it happened again.  The otters were climbing out of the water onto rocks and then jumping in one after the other.  It seemed like they were just playing.  They swam around and around writhing around each other and periodically popping up out of the water and then splashing back in.  They seemed completely unconcerned about the presence of my friend and I.  This lasted for a few minutes and then they swam off upstream doing the same antics as far as we could see them.  Of course they ruined the fishing but it was a magical moment that made the whole trip.

Response:

I was boogie boarding in Santa Cruz one morning and I felt something nibble at my fin. I turned to look and saw a seal pop his head up and look at me.  He did that a couple more times and I thought he was going to bite me or something and I kept swimming away. Finally after about 10 min I realized he was just playing and I turned to chase him. He ducked under water and came up nibbling my fin again. This went on for over an hour!!! I was swimming figure eights thru surfers but he wasn’t interested in them, just kept playing with me. When I went in to shore, I took off my fin to show my hubbie who had been surfing down the beach a ways…not a mark on them!!! Dee

Response:

– They’re pretty fearless.  In water they have no peers, unlike the sea otters who have to watch out for things like killer whales.  On land the only things that could get them would be coyotes, wolves, or cougars.  And they’ve a reputation for being a bit fierce as fighters, which might tend to make them less desirable as prey by the afore mentioned creatures.  They are members of the weasel family, after all.  They’re efficient at food gathering, so they have time to goof off a lot.  And they’re just cute as all get out.

    I snuck up on a big coon the other evening at sunset. He was sitting on the root of a huge cypress tree right above the waterline catching crawfish for supper. He’d peer intently into the shallow water until he spied one then quick as lightening plunge his paw in and grab it. He was real deft at not getting pinched and grabbed’em just right each time.     During that trip, I also saw Snowy Egret, Great Blue, Great White, and Little Green Heron, Ibis, Oppossum, Diamond Back Watersnake, Moccassin, Nutria, and a Gator. Silent paddling technique allows for successful wildlife observation. Floatin, John

Response:

They’re pretty fearless.  In water they have no peers, unlike the sea otters who have to watch out for things like killer whales.  On land the only things that could get them would be coyotes, wolves, or cougars.  And they’ve a reputation for being a bit fierce as fighters, which might tend to make them less desirable as prey by the afore mentioned creatures.  They are members of the weasel family, after all.  They’re efficient at food gathering, so they have time to goof off a lot.  And they’re just cute as all get out. —– rec.backcountry vixen I only answer my email every few months, on average.   Patience helps.   http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

A neat otter report.  I wish more readers of the NG would post articles like that.  :-)     Thanks Cyli  - Robert

Response:

Thats interesting-a few weeks ago, I was walking my dog along an abandoned road in northeast MN, when I heard an animal running through the woods. I finally saw a long, low animal bounding towards us. I couldnt get a clean look at it because of the underbrush-at first I thought beaver, but beaver dont run that fast. Then I thought fisher, but it didnt look quite right either. Anyway, this thing, whatever it was, was running straight at us and was not slowing down. I figured it could see us, we were less than 100 feet away, and it just kept coming. When it was about to break through the brush at roads edge, I debated hunkering down and waiting for it to come out on the road so I get a clear view of it. At the last second I decided that wasnt a good idea, I wasnt sure what it was, it was behaving strangely (asuming it could see me anyway), rabies crossed my mind, and I didnt want whatever it was to charge out of the woods only to land on me or my 100 lb dog. So I said "Hey" just before it would have come upon us, and it turned and raced off without me ever getting an unobstructed view of it. Later, I walked a trail that headed towards where the animal had come from, and I found a flowage about 200 feet from the road, with abundant otter sign on the banks. I’m not certain the animal was an otter but it seems pretty likely. Perhaps otters dont have great eyesight out of water. Wayne   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Today I was near enough the far edge of front country that only one powerboat passed me (the water’s high here, so motors could get up that part of the river.) and had one heck of a good day trip.  With the water high, I was able to get a mile or two up a creek that’s normally about an inch or two deep and then come back down quickly. Very quickly in a couple of spots. But, back out on the river, I checked out a couple of islands I’d never quite managed to canoe or kayak up to before (usually stopping half a mile short at an island that  happened to be underwater today) and then back down, trying to backpaddle and taking a lunch break to make the day last.  I did manage to be out 8 hours.  About half an hour after lunch and drifting downriver, I saw a small brown animal head making progress across my path.  Thinking it was a beaver, I slowed a bit, as it’s only kind not to scare them more than necessary. But it dove and didn’t tail slap, came up a bit upstream, dove again, and still no slap.  Then started swimming up to the land side of me. I gave it a bit more room, as this is what young beavers tend to do when scared.  They head straight for home, even if it means they have to get closer to the scarey thing.  However, when it got within 10 feet, it dove again and it was obvious it was an otter. I burbled aloud with joy as it rose and fixed me with a beady eye, then turned its head and gave me the other eye.  By then I was cooing at it.  So it swam closer, giving the sniff/look test to me and the kayak.  At just over arm’s length, he aparently made up his mind and started straight for the cockpit, so he could climb up.   Uh.  10 to 15 pounds of soaking wet wild animal in my lap?  With the kind of claws and teeth that can open clams very easily and quickly?  Of carnivorous genes, which I’ve noticed gives animals a tendency to express affection with ‘love bites’? No.  Which is  exactly what I said as I dropped the kayak paddle in his path.  He took offense (not surprising), dove and swam up upstream.   I regretted his going, but not his absence from my lap.  He got about a hundred yards away and then turned back to look at me.  I cooed and burbled some more.  He vanished.   I went downstream.  Looked back for some reason about 10 minutes later and there he was, keeping watch on me from about 50 to 100 yards away again.  He followed me for a good mile and then the wind had picked up enough that if he was still following, I couldn’t see his head any more. I think he was young.  Much smaller than the other otters I’ve noticed (not much of a number, because they do tend to backwaters and quieter places and vanish wonderfully easily).  Obviously not shy, as all but one of the ones I’ve seen have not  been shy.  Or at least only one was so shy that I saw it and then saw it take off, not to be seen again.).  Out of the way friendly, which I’d not seen, though I’ve heard of.   I think he’d never seen a kayak before and was curious about this half log half person thing.  When the smell was right, he was willing to come ride with me.   If he’d headed for even the front deck, I think I’d have let him on.  But the cockpit was obviously the easiest place to climb/leap.  Front deck wouldn’t have been safer. Just felt like it.  The Otter kayak (yes, coincidence rules) I was paddling is only 9′6".  He’d have been nose to nose with me there. Cute.  I felt so Disney (except for not letting him on and him not speaking English.).  A wonderful day that often felt very backcountry and the world cooperated by having very few people out, even with it being opening weekend for fishing.  I only saw about 8 people and all but 3 of them were at one campsite. —– rbc vixen. I only answer my email every few months, on average. Patience helps. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

St. Croix River. MN/WI border.  Up about 30 miles from Taylor’s Falls (the highest up dam on the river).  My favorite river in my second favorite place to paddle on it.  Rapidly becoming my favorite place as the part below Taylor’s is infested with powerboats and newbbie day trippers who do things like bring along radios and, on one very memorable occasion, a generator. Cyli ;     Great story. otters are a lot of fun to watch, always up to something. BTW where were you. Even what part of the nation would be helpful. Thanks. Floatin, John

—– rbc vixen. I only answer my email every few months, on average.   Patience helps.   http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

Cyli ;      Great story. otters are a lot of fun to watch, always up to something. BTW where were you. Even what part of the nation would be helpful. Thanks. Floatin, John — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Today I was near enough the far edge of front country that only one powerboat passed me (the water’s high here, so motors could get up that part of the river.) and had one heck of a good day trip.  With the water high, I was able to get a mile or two up a creek that’s normally about an inch or two deep and then come back down quickly. Very quickly in a couple of spots. But, back out on the river, I checked out a couple of islands I’d never quite managed to canoe or kayak up to before (usually stopping half a mile short at an island that  happened to be underwater today) and then back down, trying to backpaddle and taking a lunch break to make the day last.  I did manage to be out 8 hours.  About half an hour after lunch and drifting downriver, I saw a small brown animal head making progress across my path.  Thinking it was a beaver, I slowed a bit, as it’s only kind not to scare them more than necessary. But it dove and didn’t tail slap, came up a bit upstream, dove again, and still no slap.  Then started swimming up to the land side of me. I gave it a bit more room, as this is what young beavers tend to do when scared.  They head straight for home, even if it means they have to get closer to the scarey thing.  However, when it got within 10 feet, it dove again and it was obvious it was an otter.   I burbled aloud with joy as it rose and fixed me with a beady eye, then turned its head and gave me the other eye.  By then I was cooing at it.  So it swam closer, giving the sniff/look test to me and the kayak.  At just over arm’s length, he aparently made up his mind and started straight for the cockpit, so he could climb up.   Uh.  10 to 15 pounds of soaking wet wild animal in my lap?  With the kind of claws and teeth that can open clams very easily and quickly?  Of carnivorous genes, which I’ve noticed gives animals a tendency to express affection with ‘love bites’? No.  Which is  exactly what I said as I dropped the kayak paddle in his path.  He took offense (not surprising), dove and swam up upstream.   I regretted his going, but not his absence from my lap.  He got about a hundred yards away and then turned back to look at me.  I cooed and burbled some more.  He vanished.   I went downstream.  Looked back for some reason about 10 minutes later and there he was, keeping watch on me from about 50 to 100 yards away again.  He followed me for a good mile and then the wind had picked up enough that if he was still following, I couldn’t see his head any more.   I think he was young.  Much smaller than the other otters I’ve noticed (not much of a number, because they do tend to backwaters and quieter places and vanish wonderfully easily).  Obviously not shy, as all but one of the ones I’ve seen have not  been shy.  Or at least only one was so shy that I saw it and then saw it take off, not to be seen again.).  Out of the way friendly, which I’d not seen, though I’ve heard of.   I think he’d never seen a kayak before and was curious about this half log half person thing.  When the smell was right, he was willing to come ride with me.   If he’d headed for even the front deck, I think I’d have let him on.  But the cockpit was obviously the easiest place to climb/leap.  Front deck wouldn’t have been safer. Just felt like it.  The Otter kayak (yes, coincidence rules) I was paddling is only 9′6".  He’d have been nose to nose with me there.   Cute.  I felt so Disney (except for not letting him on and him not speaking English.).  A wonderful day that often felt very backcountry and the world cooperated by having very few people out, even with it being opening weekend for fishing.  I only saw about 8 people and all but 3 of them were at one campsite. —– rbc vixen. I only answer my email every few months, on average.   Patience helps.   http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

  Today I was near enough the far edge of front country that only one powerboat passed me (the water’s high here, so motors could get up that part of the river.) and had one heck of a good day trip.  With the water high, I was able to get a mile or two up a creek that’s normally about an inch or two deep and then come back down quickly. Very quickly in a couple of spots. But, back out on the river, I checked out a couple of islands I’d never quite managed to canoe or kayak up to before (usually stopping half a mile short at an island that  happened to be underwater today) and then back down, trying to backpaddle and taking a lunch break to make the day last.  I did manage to be out 8 hours.  About half an hour after lunch and drifting downriver, I saw a small brown animal head making progress across my path.  Thinking it was a beaver, I slowed a bit, as it’s only kind not to scare them more than necessary. But it dove and didn’t tail slap, came up a bit upstream, dove again, and still no slap.  Then started swimming up to the land side of me. I gave it a bit more room, as this is what young beavers tend to do when scared.  They head straight for home, even if it means they have to get closer to the scarey thing.  However, when it got within 10 feet, it dove again and it was obvious it was an otter.   I burbled aloud with joy as it rose and fixed me with a beady eye, then turned its head and gave me the other eye.  By then I was cooing at it.  So it swam closer, giving the sniff/look test to me and the kayak.  At just over arm’s length, he aparently made up his mind and started straight for the cockpit, so he could climb up.   Uh.  10 to 15 pounds of soaking wet wild animal in my lap?  With the kind of claws and teeth that can open clams very easily and quickly?  Of carnivorous genes, which I’ve noticed gives animals a tendency to express affection with ‘love bites’? No.  Which is  exactly what I said as I dropped the kayak paddle in his path.  He took offense (not surprising), dove and swam up upstream.   I regretted his going, but not his absence from my lap.  He got about a hundred yards away and then turned back to look at me.  I cooed and burbled some more.  He vanished.   I went downstream.  Looked back for some reason about 10 minutes later and there he was, keeping watch on me from about 50 to 100 yards away again.  He followed me for a good mile and then the wind had picked up enough that if he was still following, I couldn’t see his head any more.   I think he was young.  Much smaller than the other otters I’ve noticed (not much of a number, because they do tend to backwaters and quieter places and vanish wonderfully easily).  Obviously not shy, as all but one of the ones I’ve seen have not  been shy.  Or at least only one was so shy that I saw it and then saw it take off, not to be seen again.).  Out of the way friendly, which I’d not seen, though I’ve heard of.   I think he’d never seen a kayak before and was curious about this half log half person thing.  When the smell was right, he was willing to come ride with me.   If he’d headed for even the front deck, I think I’d have let him on.  But the cockpit was obviously the easiest place to climb/leap.  Front deck wouldn’t have been safer. Just felt like it.  The Otter kayak (yes, coincidence rules) I was paddling is only 9′6".  He’d have been nose to nose with me there.   Cute.  I felt so Disney (except for not letting him on and him not speaking English.).  A wonderful day that often felt very backcountry and the world cooperated by having very few people out, even with it being opening weekend for fishing.  I only saw about 8 people and all but 3 of them were at one campsite. —– rbc vixen. I only answer my email every few months, on average.   Patience helps.   http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

Question:

In one case a guy went after people in another nearby tent with a chain saw.

Great Caesar’s Ghost!  What happened?  Was the chain saw running?  If it was, he certainly wasn’t trying to be sneaky.    Robert

Response:

goodnight Tokyo Rose: The dolly llama has been shorn. I hear they make great sweaters and the meat aint all that bad too eat either. just remember life is only as big as your wardrobe:)

Response:

Sorry about the misfortune, but as someone stated – it is relatively uncommon. I remember being robbed in the Dublin Youth Hostel. It was a six-bed-dorm and I have put my trekking jacket between me and the wall and it was gone the next morning…boy, I was so mad and disappointed. But out there, it never happened to me and I have done camping all over Europe. I am sure that everybody will keep the core valuables always at the body anyway, right. You need to put the trust in others, or you may prefer to stop doing hikes and that will be a real loss. Relax, hike and keep your eyes open! Tim

Response:

: You’ve got to read more history.  Read about the really old : not-so-good days of the areas you wander through.  Every one of them : has stories of murders, thefts, some have cannibalism, etc.. I agree that the whole notion of the "good old days" is nothing more than selective memory and wishful thinking.  I always wonder exactly when were the "good old days".

                                     snip< Generally agree with both of you. My thinking trends toward the idea that the "good old days" is a myth. Would anyone here consider taking a solo trip on a main highway in medieval Europe?  Not without a prominent display of arms I hope. The further back you look, the worse it was.  Certainly there are many regions today where you still take your chances.  Robbers in Guatemala, Taxi drivers in Mexico City who rob their fares, and fanatic separatists in the Himalaya who have beheaded western trekkers. I still feel safer in the relatively benign North American backcountry than in any large North American city.   – Robert

Response:

I’ve found that anything that charges a fee, however small, to get in is quieter and better behaved than anything that doesn’t.  Anything that has an official occasionally in sight is quieter and better behaved.  Our State Parks are safer than my home neighborhood.  Our State Forests, however, are the one place I’ve had serious trouble and where the formal campsites are ‘party-’til-you-puke’ fav spots for local youth.  That said, I’d still say that most of the State Forest sites are wonderful  and mostly safer than my home neighborhood (is it time I moved?)   General putins for lakes and rivers and popular trailheads in the mid part of the state are iffy.  If there’s a State Park to leave my vehicle in, I’d generally rather paddle a couple of miles extra rather than leave my vehicle at a couple of the putins I’ve tried.  Not had any trouble, but too much of a place that anyone can drive into and more troubled (or partying) youth problems and some extra of weirdos.  There’s at least one place near a fav river that’d be perfect to put my little kayak in at.  Except for the broken beer and booze bottles and the sickening smell of the trash heap that’s occasionally used for bonfires.  I’ve driven down to it, gotten out and looked and driven right away.  Local vehicles might be safe there, but I’m pretty sure mine wouldn’t be.  In fact, when I paddle or hike past it, I never even see local vehicles, which is another bad sign. However, up by the BWAC, I’ve seen trailheads/putins with every yuppie vehicle one could imagine, all looking  perfectly fine except for the dust on some that shows they’ve been there for at least a full week. Down in mid state and lower I’ve left my own vehicle for days at a time with perfect safety and heard little of any problems. Look before you park or camp.  Most places are safe.  Some are obviously not.  Think before you leave your vehicle.  If possible, find out about the local area.  Try asking at the nearest small convenience store.  Look around if there’s any housing nearby.  Does it look as if it costs a bit and is well maintained?  Then they’ll be even more anxious than you for the place to be safe.  Realize that crime, like lightning, can strike anywhere, but it’s got some favorite places.  Try to learn the signs.  If it strikes anyway, try to be philosophical about it if you live through it.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | We have camped for years and never have had an incident, so try to | consider this unusual.  You should be fine if you go to a state park, | private park or National Forest. Alot of the parks have locked gates | now. (you get the combo)  If you "boondock" you stand more of a chance | of being vandalized or tormented.  Be positive about your future plans, | you will enjoy the outdoors, I’m sure. | Happy Trails, | Joyce National Forests are not necessarily "safe". In my state (NH) we have had many incidents of trouble at National Forest campgrounds (some of these being "backcountry" sites), mainly caused by drunkeness. In one case a guy went after people in another nearby tent with a chain saw. Car break-ins at trailheads are extremely common here also.

—– I’m going to live forever or die trying. I only answer my email every few months, on average.   Patience helps.   http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

: You’ve got to read more history.  Read about the really old : not-so-good days of the areas you wander through.  Every one of them : has stories of murders, thefts, some have cannibalism, etc..  Society : is not necessarily becoming something.  You may just be becoming more : aware.  For really good old fashioned fun, read about the old Natchez : Trace.  You’d not have gone near it in its true ‘wilderness’ phase. I agree that the whole notion of the "good old days" is nothing more than selective memory and wishful thinking.  I always wonder exactly when were the "good old days".  Assuming they are supposed to be post industrial revolution… looking at the 1900’s… excluding various wars, the Great Depression, etc, what’s left?  The 1950’s?  Maybe if you were a white male.  In any case, hardly representative of our country’s past. — Dave Hinds

Response:

: How disheartening! : My wife and I have decided to begin camping this year and through recent : Christmas and birthday gifts, accumulated enough gear to be fairly prepared : campers.  This year will consist mostly of car camping, with aspirations to : become backpackers as our experience and skills accumulate. : While the lure of camping and the wilderness are strong to us, the only : concern that we still have is that of being robbed or (worse) harassed by : others.  Your disappointing story only strengthens this concern. : This is a special concern since one of our major motives to camp is weekend : access to great fly fishing.  Plans to do so would have us both a distance : from camp while fishing and no eyes on our site and gear for hours at a : time. : Can any of the experienced members of the group offer suggestions to keeping : our campsite and gear secure to prevent such occurrences?  Of all the : camping & outdoors books we’ve read, none address the subject! I’d reckon the that a brandnew shiny car would be more likely to be broken into than an old heap. —    "do the boogie woogie in the South American way"                            Rhumba Boogie- Hank Snow (1955)

Response:

| We have camped for years and never have had an incident, so try to | consider this unusual.  You should be fine if you go to a state park, | priviate park or National Forest. Alot of the parks have locked gates | now. (you get the combo)  If you "boondock" you stand more of a chance | of being vandalized or tormented.  Be positive about your future plans, | you will enjoy the outdoors, I’m sure. | Happy Trails, | Joyce National Forests are not necessarily "safe". In my state (NH) we have had many incidents of trouble at National Forest campgrounds (some of these being "backcountry" sites), mainly caused by drunkeness. In one case a guy went after people in another nearby tent with a chain saw. Car break-ins at trailheads are extremely common here also.

Response:

We have camped for years and never have had an incident, so try to consider this unusual.  You should be fine if you go to a state park, priviate park or National Forest. Alot of the parks have locked gates now. (you get the combo)  If you "boondock" you stand more of a chance of being vandalized or tormented.  Be positive about your future plans, you will enjoy the outdoors, I’m sure. Happy Trails, Joyce

Response:

Eddie Babin wrote It’s a tragedy it’s come to this where the only person in hundreds of square miles may be one you can’t trust.  I don’t know if anyone has provided any real statistical evidence but it’s my firm belief that you are much less likely to encounter people problems in the backcountry than anywhere else.  As a matter of fact, there’s no place I feel safer.  That, however, does not quell my apprehension about trail head parking. ed

It is pretty shocking to hear about people being robbed in the bush camping. I live in Canada and I have heard about a cabin being broken into but never a tent in a camp site. I often go camping/hiking as far in to the wilderness as I can go and even though I sometimes rarely see other people, when I do I am usually more wary. How sad is society becoming!

Response:

… It is pretty shocking to hear about people being robbed in the bush camping. I live in Canada and I have heard about a cabin being broken into but never a tent in a camp site. I often go camping/hiking as far in to the wilderness as I can go and even though I sometimes rarely see other people, when I do I am usually more wary. How sad is society becoming!

Becoming? I don’t have any reason to think that things are getting any worse. There is a part in each of us, some more than others, who will prey on others and behave opportunistically, particularly when the chances of being caught are virtually zero. Witness rioting and looting in cities after sporting matches, looting when public order breaks down after a natural disaster, and those itinerant cowboys and trappers who carried their heavy, short range 6-guns — they had them, not for fun, but to enforce their understanding of fairness, at least for 50 yards in all directions. Most people in the backcountry, like most people in the city, will treat you pretty generously, and certainly not rip you off. But the risk is always there, so don’t bet your lunch money (or your backcountry survival) on the goodness of your fellow man or woman. — Jeff ORBS Classifieds – Free outdoor classified ads     http://home.pacbell.net/orbs ORBS Escrow – Affordable safety for online buyers and sellers     http://home.pacbell.net/orbs/oe-homepage.html

Response:

You’ve got to read more history.  Read about the really old not-so-good days of the areas you wander through.  Every one of them has stories of murders, thefts, some have cannibalism, etc..  Society is not necessarily becoming something.  You may just be becoming more aware.  For really good old fashioned fun, read about the old Natchez Trace.  You’d not have gone near it in its true ‘wilderness’ phase.

 I sometimes rarely see other people, when I do I am usually more wary. How sad is society becoming!

—– I’m going to live forever or die trying. I only answer my email every few months, on average.   Patience helps.   http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

: While the lure of camping and the wilderness are strong to us, the only : concern that we still have is that of being robbed or (worse) harassed by : others.  Your disappointing story only strengthens this concern. : This is a special concern since one of our major motives to camp is weekend : access to great fly fishing.  Plans to do so would have us both a distance : from camp while fishing and no eyes on our site and gear for hours at a : time. : Can any of the experienced members of the group offer suggestions to keeping : our campsite and gear secure to prevent such occurrences?  Of all the : camping & outdoors books we’ve read, none address the subject! It’s a tragedy it’s come to this where the only person in hundreds of square miles may be one you can’t trust.  I don’t know if anyone has provided any real statistical evidence but it’s my firm belief that you are much less likely to encounter people problems in the backcountry than anywhere else.  As a matter of fact, there’s no place I feel safer.  That, however, does not quell my apprehension about trail head parking. ed — | 21st Century Systems -+- http://www.tf-centsys.com |

Response:

You cached them to keep them from being stolen in the first place, yet you imply your faith/trust in your fellow man is somehow diminished and ask how far you have to go in hiding your cache?  Did you lock your vehicle?  If so, why?

Response:

How disheartening! My wife and I have decided to begin camping this year and through recent Christmas and birthday gifts, accumulated enough gear to be fairly prepared campers.  This year will consist mostly of car camping, with aspirations to become backpackers as our experience and skills accumulate. While the lure of camping and the wilderness are strong to us, the only concern that we still have is that of being robbed or (worse) harassed by others.  Your disappointing story only strengthens this concern. This is a special concern since one of our major motives to camp is weekend access to great fly fishing.  Plans to do so would have us both a distance from camp while fishing and no eyes on our site and gear for hours at a time. Can any of the experienced members of the group offer suggestions to keeping our campsite and gear secure to prevent such occurrences?  Of all the camping & outdoors books we’ve read, none address the subject! Thanks! –Andy Charlotte, NC

Response:

How disheartening! While the lure of camping and the wilderness are strong to us, the only concern that we still have is that of being robbed or (worse) harassed by others.  Your disappointing story only strengthens this concern. Can any of the experienced members of the group offer suggestions to keeping our campsite and gear secure to prevent such occurrences?  Of all the camping & outdoors books we’ve read, none address the subject!

First let me re-inforce what I understood about the original post:   The theift was by, persons who were given to vandelism and thieft. IE: the gate was broken open as well as the items stolen. This is not common, IMHO, to many camping situations.  I have been car camping off and on for 20 years.  I have yet to be victim of a thieft, except by raccoons and squirles who help themselves to unsecured food. I am a car camper and have primarily used state camp grounds which are pretty well petroled.   I also find it interesting that when talk of camping security is brought up, no one seems to be concerned at all about the home they have left miles behind.   It does seem to me that an unprotected house  abandoned for a week or more would be a much easier target than a campsite where people are at had and may re-appear at any moment.  Yet no one is the least bit alarmed by leaving thier home, but fearful nearly to the point of panic about their camp site, or am I just nieve? But the case remains the same, I do not know that their is any absolute safeguard against people who are determined to be criminal. Whether the domicile is permanent or temporary. Fortuantely I choose to believe, and have discovered that criminals are still in the manority {except in Washington, DC }. Regards David Ronk To reply via e-mail remove "not_" from address.     By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer      meets the definition of a telephone fax machine. By Sec.227(b)      (1)(C), it is unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to      such equipment, punishable by action to recover actual monetary      loss, or $500, whichever is greater, for EACH violation.    Please do not send unsolicited commercial mail to my email account.

Response:

David, Sorry to read about your snowshoe theft at Dolly Sods. I’ve visited there dozens of times without incident (though not in the winter). I hope yours was an isolated incident. I’d suggest that the idiot(s) who broke down the gate may not have been the same ones to steal your stuff. The gate-breaking sounds like the act of some yahoo who’s just pissed off to find a closed road, thinking (wrongly) that he has a right to travel that road. I can certainly imagine that the same dickweed, in his pissed off state, would also be given to stealing someone else’s gear. However, I’d also bet that the sort of loser who would ram a gate with his car couldn’t be bothered to walk 100 feet off road to find your snowshoes–unless they were clearly visible from the road (but sounds like they weren’t). I’m thinking somebody probably just stumbled across them, and thought they were "easy pickings." Again, sorry; and thanks for the warning–I’ll be more careful there in the future. Rob

Response:

January 25th, 1999 This past weekend, John, Jeff and I set out from Maryland on a four-hour drive to Monongahela National Forest, in West Virginia.  Expecting winter weather, John and I brought our new, unused Yuba XSV-32’s, while our friend Jeff brought along some snowshoes that he had rented from REI (just in case anyone hears anything, they were Atlas 1033’s (9" x 29")).  When we got to Dolly Sods on Thursday evening, the final gate on SR 75, about 3 miles from the plateau, was locked.  There were about three inches of wet snow on the road surface, so thinking that there would be more up on the plateau, we strapped snowshoes to our packs and headed up.  Once up on top, a warm wind and melting permafrost greeted us.  We hastily made camp, since we had arrived after sundown, and bedded down for the night.  In the morning, we packed up our gear, took a look at the forecast, and decided to stash the snowshoes.  We chose a location 100 feet away from the road and well shielded by dense pine trees and stashed the

Question:

I have a question concerning nymphing…I learned that one should dead drift a nymph (holding the rod high) through riffles, pocket-water, along seams, etc.. I was on the DePuys outside of Livingston.

True, generally that’s a good idea (dead drifting).  Some times I find it effective to impart a slight twich every couple of seconds as the fly drifts. But that depends on the pattern I am fishing (e.g., ameletus immitation). life…these generally don’t have the capability to swim in the current,

Not so, there are swimmers such as the ameletus, which swims as fast as a minnow.  But anyway, even the nonswimming crawlers get dislodged in riffles while moving from one place to another, maybe foraging.  Some types of nymphs, e.g. the stonefly, crawl to shore to hatch and may be dislodged by fast currents and drift in the current. How does this impact presentation?? Favorite patterns: B-H squirrel tail, B-H telico, B-H Hare’s ear…all 10-16

These are caddis and mayfly imitations and a dead drift is fine.  They rise to the surface and hatch, or hatch while rising to the surface. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley           2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

Response:

Not so, there are swimmers such as the ameletus, which swims as fast as a Hello Burton, I’m not familiar with the ameletus. Can you tell me a little about it?

Glad to Fred!  Ameletus (Genus) belongs to the Family Siphlonuridae.  It seems to be a distinctly western genus of mayflies.  Sixteen species are recorded from the West, and only four from the rest of the country.  They have been know to emerge in both the opening and closing weeks of the trout season, and often in between.  This is probably because of the large number of species.  They are a reddish-brown color (nymph and dun, I use a Hendrickson shade of dubbing to tie), and the nymph has short antennae small single, oval gills on abdominal segments 1-7 and the leading edges of the gills have a dark sclerotized band.  Three tails fringed with interlocking hairs and have one to several dark bands accross them near the tip (very distinctive, I use golden pheasant tippet for my imitation).  The have a broad head with large eyes on the side.  Size varies 6-14 mm(1/4-1/2 in.).   On specimens I have collected one or more of the abdominal segments on the underside is white. Their distribution is quite wide throughout the west, but some of the best populations are found in high mtn. streams of the Rockies where they have been collected at altitudes up to 11,000 ft.  They are commonly found in small, rapid streams, near but not *in* fast water.  They rrest on clean stones, vegetation, or debris.  They have been found all the way from small coastal streams to large desert rivers (not found in lakes).  They often inhabit deep undercut banks, away from the main current, the same places inhabited by large trout. Which is probably why it took us so long to discover them on a streach of river we knew held fish but couldn’t figure out what they fed on.  As a last resort we swept out a handfull of vegetation and debris from under the bank. The little critters were flying all over the place.  As I mentioned before, they swim with minnow-like speed.   Disturbances as I mentioned, send them scurring for better cover.  Their active swimming behavoir makes them readily available to trout. Ameletus have a one-year life cycle and the nymphs feed on algae or other plant material.  When mature they select a quiet area near the water’s edge to emerge.  The nymphs crawl from the water on plant stems, twigs, rocks or logs, like their sister genus Siphlorurus.  It may take fifteen minutes for the dun to free itself from the nymphal shuck.  Since they emerge above water the duns are seldom available to fish.  Spinner flights have never been recorded in any literature and mating may take place far from the water or high above it. It’s an interesting bug, and well worth looking for.  We have taken some nice fish on the nymph imitations.  When shown a picture of the bug by Dave McNeese, Polly Rosborough thought it was his Isonychia bicolor.  The color is similar and because of this it may have been misidentified or largely ignored by fly fishing writers. Well, there’s more than you ever wanted to know about Ameletus. Tight Lines, -Burton — L. Burton Hawley           2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a question concerning nymphing…I learned that one should dead drift a nymph (holding the rod high) through riffles, pocket-water, along seams, etc.. I was on the DePuys outside of Livingston. <snip lots of great stuff        The guiding principle of when to use which technique is to understand which insect one is trying to imitate… In unfamiliar water with unfamiliar insects, the technique you described is often the best place to start…  If it doesn’t produce and you know there are fish there, do a bit of stream bottom research and change accordingly. Alan,

Nice summary on nymphing technique.  I really didn’t address technique.  If John wants to learn more about technique I suggest he try to obtain a copy of Charles E. Brooks excellent book "Nymph Fishing For Larger Trout" (ISBN 0-8329-0330-2) in which he discusses all aspects of nymph fishing (10 methods even). Tight Lines, -Burton — L. Burton Hawley Corvallis, OR          "Those children that you spit on           as they try to change their world,           are immune to your consultations,           and are quite aware of what they are                    going through."      "Changes"      David Bowie

Response:

Hey folks, I have a question concerning nymphing…I learned that one should dead drift a nymph (holding the rod high) through riffles, pocket-water, along seams, etc.. I was on the DePuys outside of Livingston. I see a number of FFers fishing nymphs downstream…I assume that some are using streamers…but I was under the impression that a nymph pattern was immitating (obviously??) nymphal stages of insect life…these generally don’t have the capability to swim in the current, right? So wouldn’t fishing downstream cause them to swing across the current or drag through the water creating non-natural movement of the nymph? I mostly fish the Chattahoochee or rivers/streams in the North Georgia Moutains…much faster than the slower spring creeks out West…the Hooch can be fairly deep in some places( 10ft) but I tend to wade the 2-4ft areas and most of the streams in N. GA that I fish are around 2-3ft with pools about 4-5ft in depth.   How does this impact presentation?? Favorite patterns: B-H squirrel tail, B-H telico, B-H Hare’s ear…all 10-16 Any and all techniques appreciated. Thanks, -John *       John Carney        * * Fly Fisher & Parrot Head *

Response:

Not so, there are swimmers such as the ameletus, which swims as fast as a minnow.  But anyway, even the nonswimming crawlers get dislodged in riffles while moving from one place to another, maybe foraging.  Some types of nymphs, e.g. the stonefly, crawl to shore to hatch and may be dislodged by fast currents and drift in the current.

Hello Burton, I’m not familiar with the ameletus. Can you tell me a little about it? Thanks,

Response:

I have a question concerning nymphing…I learned that one should dead drift a nymph (holding the rod high) through riffles, pocket-water, along seams, etc.. I was on the DePuys outside of Livingston.

<snip John,      I spent a very long time trying to catch trout with nymphs before I ever got a single hit…..then a kind gentleman, Chuck Davidison showed me how to do the normal "dead drift"….. but since have learned how and now prefer when there is no surface activity to use nymphs…. as it is very deadly..         Clearly dead drift is one of the best techniques for nymphing…..  with the line so slack you do not impart artificial movement or underwater drag to the fly… but with the line so taut that you can instantly sense any pick up…… *but* there are many other good presentations…. One I love in deep quiet pools is the "Bergman" crawl…. described in Ray Bergman’s "Trout"…. letting a nymph settle all the way to the bottom of a pool and then slowly with the fingers of the left hand (for right handed l….) sllllloooooooowwwwly winding in the fly line to crawl the nymph over the bottom….. has the advantage of imparting a realistic move, yet allowing instant telegraph of a pick-up.        Another effective technique a few days before the white miller hatch in July in Pa. is to use a perfectly white nymph with a bit of a tail.  Make very fast 12 inch jerks or strips of the fly line while there is a down and across drift.   space the strips a few seconds apart and make sure the nymph is within an inch of the bottom… You may need to dip you rod tip underwater….  this nymph is a swimmer and a fast swimmer and is quite active the few days before the duns appear at dusk… the best time to use this technique.        Another is the Leisenring lift named for Jim Leisenring noting that many nymphs rise to the surface *immediately* prior to the dun-on-the-water phase in a manner of completing an arc from the bottom and moving to the surface faster near the end of the rise… this is simulated by dead drifting and then as the fly swings past the fisherperson, allowing the line to tighten then smoothly lifting the rod to do the Leisenring lift…. The trout will take the fly about 5 inches below the surface.        The guiding principle of when to use which technique is to understand which insect one is trying to imitate… In unfamiliar water with unfamiliar insects, the technique you described is often the best place to start…  If it doesn’t produce and you know there are fish there, do a bit of stream bottom research and change accordingly. Tightlines, Alan E. Hoover Anglers’ Rest Powhatan, Va        *the trout teach many, lessons*

Response:

John, Please take the following with my usual caveat: I don’t consider myself or my opinions expert. Re: fishing nymphs downstream…while I have been on a near 10-year dry fly love-fest, I can remember a few things from my previous fishing life. I was weaned on multiple wet-flys and have caught hundreds of trout using the old down-and-across. It has been my observation that as the fly swings across the current it is popped upward just like a nymph heading for the surface. With practice, one can time this "emergence" to occur in likely trout lies. Same applies to downstream nymphing, but you must exercise much more restraint in setting the hook (hooking angle is terrible…too quick, and you pull it right out his mouth), while the "swing" is often a self-hooking affair. Since my wonderful (seriously) wife found me a good straight bamboo at an auction this summer, I am planning a return to my "three-at-a-time-swing", for old time’s sake if nothing else. As far as specific techniques…that will come if you pay attention to what’s happening. One word of advice that has really helped me: If you can’t spit in his eye, you’re casting too far. Good luck. — Jim Marple "He went fishing…call back at dark thirty."

snip I see a number of FFers fishing nymphs downstream…I assume that some are using streamers…but I was under the impression that a nymph pattern was immitating (obviously??) nymphal stages of insect life…these generally don’t have the capability to swim in the current, right? So wouldn’t fishing downstream cause them to swing across the current or drag through the water creating non-natural movement of the nymph?

snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – *       John Carney        * * Fly Fisher & Parrot Head *

Response:

John: When the water is clear and the trout can see all, you sometimes have to present the nymph on a downstream cast.  The angler should then release line thru the rod guides to give the nymph a drag free float before it swings to the side of the stream. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey folks, I have a question concerning nymphing…I learned that one should dead drift a nymph (holding the rod high) through riffles, pocket-water, along seams, etc.. I was on the DePuys outside of Livingston. I see a number of FFers fishing nymphs downstream…I assume that some are using streamers…but I was under the impression that a nymph pattern was immitating (obviously??) nymphal stages of insect life…these generally don’t have the capability to swim in the current, right? So wouldn’t fishing downstream cause them to swing across the current or drag through the water creating non-natural movement of the nymph? I mostly fish the Chattahoochee or rivers/streams in the North Georgia Moutains…much faster than the slower spring creeks out West…the Hooch can be fairly deep in some places( 10ft) but I tend to wade the 2-4ft areas and most of the streams in N. GA that I fish are around 2-3ft with pools about 4-5ft in depth.   How does this impact presentation?? Favorite patterns: B-H squirrel tail, B-H telico, B-H Hare’s ear…all 10-16 Any and all techniques appreciated. Thanks, -John *       John Carney        * * Fly Fisher & Parrot Head *

Response:

some really excellent info clipped < Alan E. Hoover Anglers’ Rest Powhatan, Va        *the trout teach many, lessons*

Alan (et. al.), Thanks for the info folks…today the weather is bright, clear and 70 degrees! I’m hoping that the Hooch won’t look like YooHoo by this weekend….we have a lot of construction north of Atlanta and the runoff from the red clay really gets bad… However, there are other places…a few more days of this weather and the hatch will be on!  Gosh, I feel an illness coming on…;-D –John *       John Carney        * * Fly Fisher & Parrot Head *

Response:

Question:

Has anyone had any experience using horse hair, (mane in particular), in fly tying.  Any input would be appreciated. Tight line!

Response:

writes: Has anyone had any experience using horse hair, (mane in particular), in fly tying.  Any input would be appreciated. Tight line!

Yes, both horse mane and horse tail.  Back in the 70’s took a one day class at a local JC in Oregon.  Older fellow who taught the 3 hour session had a collection of various materials in coffee cans and tin cracker boxes.  Part of his selection was horesehair dyed in various colors.  We tied up some caddis using some dyed green horse hair tied on and then wrapped like floss for one of the flies and then twisted to give a segmented body on another one.  It was actually pretty easy to handle. Need to be a little careful when twisting the horsehair as it goes from "twisted nicely" to "broken by twisting too much" very quickly.  Evidently it used to be easily available.  I haven’t seen any since that one time.                                  Good Luck,                                      Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

Response:

Has anyone had any experience using horse hair, (mane in particular), in fly tying.  Any input would be appreciated.

tying some Mr. Ed Beadheads ? TimW

Response:

Has anyone had any experience using horse hair, (mane in particular), in fly tying.  Any input would be appreciated.

Horsehair bodies (over painted hook shanks) were the basis of J.W. Dunne’s theory of imitation (approx. 1920) and remained in use in Britain for some time (cf. Robert Hartman, About Fishing, 1935) — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Question:

Does anyone know of a good place to get away for some good fly fishing?  I am willing to hike 4-8 miles in order to find some seclusion and good fly angling.  I’m thinking of going somewhere near the Emigrant Wilderness area early next month.  If your spot is top secret, please Email me directly and I’ll use it very discretely.  Thanks for the good help.

Response:

I will be going into the high country out of Kings Canyone later this month – 10,000′ and up. I inherited a fly rod & reel, and will be taking it along to experiment. I have caught a few trout with it already. I would appreciate any reccomendatiions on what works best in that area as far as fly selections. I will stock up a bit, but can’t get too carried away with gear. Thanks Brian Millin

Response:

I will be going into the high country out of Kings Canyone later this month – 10,000′ and up. <snip I would appreciate any reccomendatiions on what works best in that area as far as fly selections. <snip

Brian, This is almost too easy.  You can catch fish in the high country on just about anything.  Last week I had a brookie hit my strike indicator, and wouldn’t let go! The streams between lakes, and where streams enter lakes are great spots to fish, but you probably already know this.  You can keep your fly selection very limited and simple.  Sizes 12, 14, 16 mainly.  Take along some Adams or Bi-visibles or Royal Wulffs, Gold Ribbed Hares Ear Nymphs, a Wooley Bugger or two.  These fish will NOT be selective.   Be sure to fish barbless, because you’ll catch way to many to keep them all, plus you want to release them fast to catch some more.  Fish every little pocket and seam, cover the water thoroughly, you won’t be disappointed. Write back when you return, Bruce

Response:

Does anyone know of a good place to get away for some good fly fishing?  I am willing to hike 4-8 miles in order to find some seclusion and good fly angling.  I’m thinking of going somewhere near the Emigrant Wilderness area early next month.  If your spot is top secret, please Email me directly and I’ll use it very discretely.  Thanks for the good help.

As far as I’m concerned, the Emigrant Wilderness offers the best fishing to be found in the Sierra backcountry.  I can count on rainbows and brookies in the 18" to 20" range on most of my trips now.  I’ve found the key to good lake fishing is getting in the water.  That plus my black wooly buggers.  The only problem (or saving grace?) with the Emigrant Wilderness is that all of the worthwhile destinations begin at about the 15 mile mark.  So it doesn’t offer much to the weekender. If you’ve got the time, I suggest you contact the Kennedy Meadows Resort (1-209-965-3900) for horse packing information.  A pack trip is fairly inexpensive, you can get a long ways into the mountains and you can live slightly above the austere level of the shoe-buckeroo.  I would be happy to help you get hooked up on a trip, as I do a bit of cooking for the pack station from time to time.

Response:

Question:

I’m going up to Seagull Lake in the BOundary Waters Canoe Area of Northern MN in late May.  I’m new to sm bass fly-fishing and was wondering what flys, sizes & patterns are successful.  If anyone knows Seagull, I sure would appreciate any pointers you would be willing to share.

Jon: Don’t know Seagull but was in BWCA last year at end of May precisely for FF for smallmouth, though I had a friend along with spinning gear. We started looking for them deepish at first, with little luck. Then went to shallower bays where water was warmer and fished right up against shore with poppers, Dahlberg Diver’s, etc. and from there on out it was a blast, esp. in the a.m. and p.m. I think almost anything on the surface would have worked, I liked foam poppers for indestructibility, but had fun with my own Muddlers too. (My friend just used small Rapalas that we did surgery on to get rid of the trebles and barbs.) Anything you can make a little disturbance with, and sometimes the more the better. But we found you had to really put that thing right up against shore. It would seem crazy, but the bass, even if obviously laying 3-4 feet away from shore, really appeared completely taken in by something spluttering away from the shore. I bet those Mouserat jobs would work fine, but my exp. with smallmouths is that you can’t go wrong with smallish lures. You are in for a great time. Just look for the warmest water possible. Northern shorelines of bays would seem smartest.

Response:

I’m going up to Seagull Lake in the BOundary Waters Canoe Area of Northern MN in late May.  I’m new to sm bass fly-fishing and was wondering what flys, sizes & patterns are successful.  If anyone knows Seagull, I sure would appreciate any pointers you would be willing to share.  But we found you had to really put that thing right up against shore. It would seem crazy, but the bass, even if obviously laying 3-4 feet away from shore, really appeared completely taken in by something spluttering away from the shore.

I agree with putting it right on the bank and pulling it off.  I was up in Crooked Lake last May and bouncing it off rocks on the shore and letting it drop in was the most succesful. –Patrick

Response:

I’m going up to Seagull Lake in the BOundary Waters Canoe Area of Northern MN in late May.  I’m new to sm bass fly-fishing and was wondering what flys, sizes & patterns are successful.  If anyone knows Seagull, I sure would appreciate any pointers you would be willing to share. Thanks ! Jonathan

Response:

I’m going up to Seagull Lake in the BOundary Waters Canoe Area of Northern MN in late May.  I’m new to sm bass fly-fishing and was wondering what flys, sizes & patterns are successful.  If anyone knows

FF is suitable for bass in lakes only if the bass are shallow and you know where they are:  but you might be able to find river inflows and outflows which will be easier.  Try: — in streamy water at least a yard deep (potholes OK) fish a big streamer (Muddler or something brighter e.g. Yellow Sally) as deep as you can e.g. on a sink-tip line. — bring a few very small poppers on big hooks.  They’re not good hookers, but you can often tease bass up to the top and get hits. — be ready to match (very roughly) an evening rise to hatching insects, e.g. wet alder fly (for caddis), biggish nymphs, high-floating dries. The half hour after sunset can be thrilling, and if the moon is right (to see your fly) you can fish into full dark. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Question:

I’m interested in attempting to build my own fly rod.  I’ve been looking through several catalogs for supplies, so no problem there.  Does anyone have any advice on "how to" books regarding rod building? Thanks.

Response:

The definitive book on custom rod building is : Advanced Custom Rod Building by Dale Clemens publisher is Winchester Press. Can be bought through any mail order catalog that sells rod building supplies. — Dave

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In my opinnion "Start to Finish Fly rod Building" (50 pages) published by the FlexCoat Company is more than sufissient to do a very good first-time job. If you fall in love with rod building you can buy the more comprehensive stuff. I bought it from Anglers Workshop, WA. Good Luck Jan errik Frithjofsen I’m interested in attempting to build my own fly rod.  I’ve been looking through several catalogs for supplies, so no problem there.  Does anyone have any advice on "how to" books regarding rod building? Thanks.

Jan Erik Frithjofsen

Response:

I’m interested in attempting to build my own fly rod.  I’ve been looking

through several catalogs for supplies, so no problem there.  Does anyone have any advice on "how to" books regarding rod building<< A very good book with excellent photographs of the building process including many close ups  is Handcrafting a Graphite Fly Rod by Louis Garcia, published by Frank Amato Publications, it sells for $15.95.  This is an excellent book for the first time builder.  It walks you through the process from start to finish in a clear and precise manner. A.G.W. Manchester, NH

Response:

I’m interested in attempting to build my own fly rod.  I’ve been looking through several catalogs for supplies, so no problem there.  Does anyone have any advice on "how to" books regarding rod building? Thanks.

A good book is one by Skip Morris on building graphite fly rods.  Also check mail order houses who specialize in rod building (e.g., Dale Clemens in Allentown, PA)

Response:

: I’ve built two rods and the only problem I ran into was mixing the flexcoat. The first rod : came out wonderfully because I used the measuring syringes.  Next rod : the syringes were all gunked up and my mix was tacky for 6 months. So : I ask how do you clean them out after each use and or where do you : purchase extras?

Here’s another alternative: don’t use flex coat.  Their epoxy is too thick and the syringes are unreliable.  I use a two-part epoxy formula made by Manhattan Custom Tackle that gives a thin, glassy finish.  You mix it using metal measuring spoons, so you know the parts are equal.

Response:

: I’ve built two rods and the only problem I ran into was mixing the flexcoat. The first rod : came out wonderfully because I used the measuring syringes.  Next rod : the syringes were all gunked up and my mix was tacky for 6 months. So : I ask how do you clean them out after each use and or where do you : purchase extras? Here’s another alternative: don’t use flex coat.  Their epoxy is too thick and the syringes are unreliable.  I use a two-part epoxy formula made by Manhattan Custom Tackle that gives a thin, glassy finish.  You mix it using metal measuring spoons, so you know the parts are equal.

I have had great sucess with the thinner of the two Flex Coat formulations.. After you build a rod them away. Replacement syringes are cheap insurance.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just use a piece of tying thread as the loop, pull it until it is under only the last 2 or 3 wraps, then cut it with a little exacto knife. Don’t get too much thread under the wrap or you’ll get nubs and they never really burn off that well. I use a piece of about 10lb test mono tippet material to pull the thread through, less twisting of everything.  Once the end is pulled under the last several wraps and through pull on it quite hard and this will stretch it and lift the wraps a little and then carefully cut it close with an X-acto or razor blade.  Then the end will pull back under the wraps nicely leaving no bumps…  sometimes I nick the wraps but then I just redo them.  Beats the hell out of trying to singe ends off, I always end up with sooty thread when I try that.  Good luck build nice rods!

I am surprised that no one commented on a simpler solution to pulling the thread through and cutting it off with a sharp knife/ razorblade/ X-acto knife/ etc. You can use the same method but leave the end of the thraed rather short, let’s say 1/8th. of an inch. If you pull this short end back under the last 10 wraps or so none of it will come out and you won’t have to bother with trimming the end off or singing it or having an unsightly stump. It may not always work but it really is quite simple. Good luck! Tom Hackmann

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello All: A query for those of you versed in the fine art of rod building:  I am intending to build myself a rod on a Sage SP blank when they become available in March.  However, I have some trepidations as this would be my first foray into the rod building world.  My question is:  instead of risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP rod to be without too many major errors, cosmetic or otherwise.  I intend to go slow and carefully.  Is that all I need to do or are there certain mistakes that I must learn first in order to avoid later?

I have a question about the two part epoxy. I built two rods and the first one went fine because I used the syringes provided with the Crystal Coat to measure the two parts. The second rod is still tacky after 4 months, probably because the measurement of the Coat was incorrect. Why? Because the two measuring syringes were all gunked up from the first use.  So two questions. 1. How do you clean the syringes? No I didn’t mix the two. 2. Where do you buy new syringes without buying an entire new package of Clear Coat?

Response:

I’ve built two rods and the only problem I ran into was mixing the flexcoat. The first rod came out wonderfully because I used the measuring syringes.  Next rod the syringes were all gunked up and my mix was tacky for 6 months. So I ask how do you clean them out after each use and or where do you purchase extras?

The directions on the Flex Coat I’ve been practicing with says not to clean the syringes.  I think it says to simply store them seperately in air tight containers.  I have not gone back to look at them since I put them in zip lock baggies, so I’m not sure if I’ll face the same problem you had or not.  As far as extras, the mail order companies (e.g. Angler’s Workshop, Jans) seem to have the best prices on these type of supplies.

Response:

—— snip ——- : : I’ve built two rods and the only problem I ran into was mixing the flexcoat. The first rod : came out wonderfully because I used the measuring syringes.  Next rod : the syringes were all gunked up and my mix was tacky for 6 months. So : I ask how do you clean them out after each use and or where do you : purchase extras? I was told by the guys at Flexcoat to use alcohol to clean the syringes. I have also read in Advanced Custom Rod Building by Dale Clemens that you can thin the Flexcoat up to 15% to make it thiner. I store my syringes in mid-stroke after cleaning. Oh, Netcrafter’s sells them seperately including the mixing cups. Keep your feet dry, — Bob San Jose, Ca

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello All: A query for those of you versed in the fine art of rod building:  I am intending to build myself a rod on a Sage SP blank when they become available in March.  However, I have some trepidations as this would be my first foray into the rod building world.  My question is:  instead of risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP rod to be without too many major errors, cosmetic or otherwise.  I intend to go slow and carefully.  Is that all I need to do or are there certain mistakes that I must learn first in order to avoid later? Follow up questions:  what is the most difficult aspect of the process?   what should I practice? Yet another inquiry:  what is your preferred method of finishing (tying off) the wraps?  Do most folks use the method Garcia talks about in his book (pulling the thread underneath the wraps with a loop of guitar string or similar, and then while the thread is still under the wraps pulling the thread and loop in opposite directions until the thread breaks)?  Or is there a more preferred method? Thanks for any info you can share. Andy

If you can find a flyshop that has a rod building class I strongly recommend it. I built my first rod on Sage RPL blank and I am very pleased with the result. A good teacher has a lot of tricks that make the job easier. To prevent bubbles, blow on the wet flex coat. First after mixing, then after applying. Bubbles disappear like magic. To pull end of wrap under the winding  use a piece of same thread to make a loop and catch the main thread. Continue to wind for1/8 inch or so and pull the loop to snug it against the last turn. Cut off the end of the thread  with a SHARP razor blade leaving about 1/16 inch end. Grasp the loop and give a quick pull back against the direction the thread is being wound. The end will pull under the winding leaving no end showing. Just take your time, nothing is difficult. Chuck

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello All: A query for those of you versed in the fine art of rod building:  I am intending to build myself a rod on a Sage SP blank when they become available in March.  However, I have some trepidations as this would be my first foray into the rod building world.  My question is:  instead of risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP rod to be without too many major errors, cosmetic or otherwise.  I intend to go slow and carefully.  Is that all I need to do or are there certain mistakes that I must learn first in order to avoid later? Andy If you can find a flyshop that has a rod building class I strongly recommend it. I built my first rod on Sage RPL blank and I am very pleased with the result. A good teacher has a lot of tricks that make the job easier. To prevent bubbles, blow on the wet flex coat. First after mixing, then after applying. Bubbles disappear like magic. To pull end of wrap under the winding  use a piece of same thread to make a loop and catch the main thread. Continue to wind for1/8 inch or so and pull the loop to snug it against the last turn. Cut off the end of the thread  with a SHARP razor blade leaving about 1/16 inch end. Grasp the loop and give a quick pull back against the direction the thread is being wound. The end will pull under the winding leaving no end showing. Just take your time, nothing is difficult. Chuck

I’ve built two rods and the only problem I ran into was mixing the flexcoat. The first rod came out wonderfully because I used the measuring syringes.  Next rod the syringes were all gunked up and my mix was tacky for 6 months. So I ask how do you clean them out after each use and or where do you purchase extras?

Response:

: Andy : : If you can find a flyshop that has a rod building class I strongly : recommend it. I built my first rod on Sage RPL blank and I am very : pleased with the result. A good teacher has a lot of tricks that make : the job easier. : : To prevent bubbles, blow on the wet flex coat. First after mixing, : then after applying. Bubbles disappear like magic. : : To pull end of wrap under the winding  use a piece of same thread to : make a loop and catch the main thread. Continue to wind for1/8 inch or : so and pull the loop to snug it against the last turn. Cut off the end : of the thread  with a SHARP razor blade leaving about 1/16 inch end. : Grasp the loop and give a quick pull back against the direction the : thread is being wound. The end will pull under the winding leaving no : end showing. : : Just take your time, nothing is difficult. : : Chuck Chuck, I agree with every thing you have read, and I used to wrap that way. I had seen a wrapping tool in Herter’s catalog back in the late forties that I copied. This Christmas my kids gave me a Flo-coat wrapping tool. You don’t need it but it is nice. Netcrafter has them in their cat cheap. The thing I found was a copy of L.A. Garcia’s book "Hand crafting a Graphite Rod". It has some very nice photos (examlpes) of tools that can be copied. Something worth making _or_ purchasing is a whip finisher. I would never use a razor blade to cut the line for fear pf nicking the graphite and setting up a stress point for a fracture. Garcia states that if you pull evenly on the finisher and the thread end, the thread will break and in the process the finisher will come out also. Instead of using the same thread to tug the whip under the wrap, I’d suggest some monofiliment of about 15 lb. Just some additional thoujghts, — Bob San Jose, Ca

Response:

I just use a piece of tying thread as the loop, pull it until it is under only the last 2 or 3 wraps, then cut it with a little exacto knife. Don’t get too much thread under the wrap or you’ll get nubs and they never really burn off that well.

I use a piece of about 10lb test mono tippet material to pull the thread through, less twisting of everything.  Once the end is pulled under the last several wraps and through pull on it quite hard and this will stretch it and lift the wraps a little and then carefully cut it close with an X-acto or razor blade.  Then the end will pull back under the wraps nicely leaving no bumps…  sometimes I nick the wraps but then I just redo them.  Beats the hell out of trying to singe ends off, I always end up with sooty thread when I try that.  Good luck build nice rods! Catch and Release Dave Wood Ravenna OH

Response:

Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: Prodigy Services Company  1-800-PRODIGY Here’s an idea I haven;t seen posted here before: instead of practicing on a cheap blank you probably won’t fish with anyway, buy a 3′ length of wooden dowling from your local hardware store (less than $1) and pretend it’s a blank.  Practice placing guides, wrapping them and finishing.   Then you’ll be ready for the real thing.

Consider that a wooden dowel will behave differently wrt absorption of the epoxy/varnish and wrt the way the wraps slide (and are manipulated) on the blank. It is always better to practice on something as close to the target as possible; it is always better to practice on something than not to practice at all. — Office:     Denver, Colorado  1-303-595-2864 Home:       Bailey, Colorado

Response:

Thought I’d add a couple of things. See below. snip Follow up questions:  what is the most difficult aspect of the process?   what should I practice? Placing the guides just takes time & trial and error, ditto on wrapping them. If you’re going to shape your own grip that would be where to practice. If using a pre-built grip practice reaming the hole while still keeping it centered. But the real thing to practice I think is mixing, applying and drying the varnish. Try it a couple times on an old rod just to make sure you get the results you expect before going ‘live’. If you plan on modifying the blank for any reason (by cutting it) you definitely want a couple cheap guinea pigs.

One of the keys to working with Flex-coat type finishes or other epoxies is consistent temperature.  I like to work in the 75 degree (F) range and keep an aquarium thermometer on my work surface.  A normal desk lamp will keep the temp consistent and can its height can be adjusted accordingly (if your epoxy starts smoking, your area is too hot )  Keep the light on throughout the curing process.   Yet another inquiry:  what is your preferred method of finishing (tying off) the wraps?  Do most folks use the method Garcia talks about in his book (pulling the thread underneath the wraps with a loop of guitar string or similar, and then while the thread is still under the wraps pulling the thread and loop in opposite directions until the thread breaks)?  Or is there a more preferred method? I just use a piece of tying thread as the loop, pull it until it is under only the last 2 or 3 wraps, then cut it with a little exacto knife. Don’t get too much thread under the wrap or you’ll get nubs and they never really burn off that well.

So he uses the guitar string to cut the thread?  I think I’ll stick to a razor blade.  The blade should cut the thread with the slightest touch.  If it doesn’t, change blades.  On wraps in general, be consistent from guide to guide. Keep count of the number of turns.  If you take 10 turns before jumping on to the foot, do it on all the guides the same way.  Attention to detail is key. Relax, your rod’s going to fish fine when you’re done.   Ross

Response:

 My question is:  instead of – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP rod to be without too many major errors, cosmetic or otherwise.  I intend to go slow and carefully.  Is that all I need to do or are there certain mistakes that I must learn first in order to avoid later? Follow up questions:  what is the most difficult aspect of the process?   what should I practice? Yet another inquiry:  what is your preferred method of finishing (tying off) the wraps?  Do most folks use the method Garcia talks about in his book (pulling the thread underneath the wraps with a loop of guitar string or similar, and then while the thread is still under the wraps pulling the thread and loop in opposite directions until the thread breaks)?  Or is there a more preferred method?

Here’s an idea I haven;t seen posted here before: instead of practicing on a cheap blank you probably won’t fish with anyway, buy a 3′ length of wodden dowling from your local hardware store (less than $1) and pretend it’s a blank.  Practice placing guides, wrapping them and finishing.   Then you’ll be ready for the real thing. The most difficult aspect of the process, IMO, is wrapping, especially if you are fussy about appearance.  Which leads to your last question: I haven’t heard of that technique before, but it sounds like it will result in frayed thread ends sticking out of the wraps.  A neater solution is to pull up on the thread end at a 90 degree angle to the blank and cut with a very sharp exacto knofe as close to the wraps as possible.  More often than not, the cut end is snaps back under the wrap.

Response:

| Hello All: | | my first foray into the rod building world.  My question is:  instead of | risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice | rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP | | Follow up questions:  what is the most difficult aspect of the process?   | what should I practice? | Andy OK I was in this position about 8 months ago.  Since then I have built two rods, a Loomis IM6 8′ 6wt and a IMX 9′ 9wt.  I dont think you need to practice on anything cheaper than what you want to fish with.  There is no magic to building a graphite rod, and you really don’t need any of the stands that are sold as wrapping stands.  I used the Morris book which explained everything well enough.  I used the dish method to hold the thread and a Law book for tensioning.  Wraps are comparatively easy to do and you can redo any of them if you feel they are not up to par untill you flex coat them.  I did a couple of wraps on a dowell to get the hang of it.  Finishing a wrap by pulling it under the last 1/2 dozen wraps with another piece of string then I cut it flush with a new X-acto blade.  I can’t tell the diference between my wraps and Loomis Sage et al and I’m pretty picky.  Things get a bit tricky if you want to include embedded trim rings but you probably won’t bother on your first attempt. The only thing I’ve had trouble with is a inlayed wrap of only one thread.         The only thing I havn’t done is apply the flex coat myself (the place I bought everything else will flex coat as a service).  I did buy some and I did a wrap on a section of a metal rod and coat it.  It came out OK not meny bubbles – and I wasn’t being careful in the mixing process – decided to let the store do it because hand turning it was a pain in the you-know-what and I didn’t want to buy a turner then.  I’m currently making a turner out of an old electric clock and I’ll do everything myself next time (I’ll still buy preformed grips). Good luck and have fun. PVM — / Paul V. Moruzzi                                                       | Patient Monitoring Division (PMD)                                     | | Hewlett Packard                           HP Telnet: 1-659-7850       | | 3000 Minuteman Road                           Voice: 1-508-659-7850   | | Andover, Ma.  01810-1099                        Fax: 1-508-685-5372   |

Response:

Hello All: A query for those of you versed in the fine art of rod building:  I am intending to build myself a rod on a Sage SP blank when they become available in March.  However, I have some trepidations as this would be my first foray into the rod building world.  My question is:  instead of risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP rod to be without too many major errors, cosmetic or otherwise.  I intend to go slow and carefully.  Is that all I need to do or are there certain mistakes that I must learn first in order to avoid later?

The first rod I built was on a cheap ($60) blank from a now defunct company. Everything worked fine, the glue jobs all held, etc., but there were some cosmetic touches that were beyond my capability at the time, so naturally I went on to build another and so on and so :- I don’t get too gaudy, in fact I don’t even use a trim band anymore, but I do like a single inlaid thread at the butt and at each ferrule. At first getting these right was maddening and very time consuming, but failure doesn’t wreck the blank, so you can start over again. By the time I bought a good blank I’d built 3 or 4 rods and it came out exactly like I wanted it to. Follow up questions:  what is the most difficult aspect of the process?   what should I practice?

Placing the guides just takes time & trial and error, ditto on wrapping them. If you’re going to shape your own grip that would be where to practice. If using a pre-built grip practice reaming the hole while still keeping it centered. But the real thing to practice I think is mixing, applying and drying the varnish. Try it a couple times on an old rod just to make sure you get the results you expect before going ‘live’. If you plan on modifying the blank for any reason (by cutting it) you definitely want a couple cheap guinea pigs. Yet another inquiry:  what is your preferred method of finishing (tying off) the wraps?  Do most folks use the method Garcia talks about in his book (pulling the thread underneath the wraps with a loop of guitar string or similar, and then while the thread is still under the wraps pulling the thread and loop in opposite directions until the thread breaks)?  Or is there a more preferred method?

I just use a piece of tying thread as the loop, pull it until it is under only the last 2 or 3 wraps, then cut it with a little exacto knife. Don’t get too much thread under the wrap or you’ll get nubs and they never really burn off that well. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thanks for any info you can share. Andy

Response:

Hello All: A query for those of you versed in the fine art of rod building:  I am intending to build myself a rod on a Sage SP blank when they become available in March.  However, I have some trepidations as this would be my first foray into the rod building world.  My question is:  instead of risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP rod to be without too many major errors, cosmetic or otherwise.  I intend to go slow and carefully.  Is that all I need to do or are there certain mistakes that I must learn first in order to avoid later? Follow up questions:  what is the most difficult aspect of the process?   what should I practice? Yet another inquiry:  what is your preferred method of finishing (tying off) the wraps?  Do most folks use the method Garcia talks about in his book (pulling the thread underneath the wraps with a loop of guitar string or similar, and then while the thread is still under the wraps pulling the thread and loop in opposite directions until the thread breaks)?  Or is there a more preferred method? Thanks for any info you can share. Andy

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Question:

The house of Rep. in washington is considering a bill to establish a national fishing license, (snip) What do you think about the idea of a national fishing license?

        It will probably do the same thing the Federal commercial drivers license did!  I held a class A license since I was 21, but at $13 a year I could afford it even though I was no longer driving "big rigs".  The "Fed" came in and now the class A in Texas is $40!  I went back to a class c!         There is NO WAY I want the Federal Gov’t involved in "our" fishing, and if you take a look at what the NFWS is doing, you won’t either!!!

Response:

The house of Rep. in washington is considering a bill to establish a national fishing license,  at this point it is only a bill to althorize the study of feasability of a national fishing license ( H.R. 406 ih) to read the actual bill go (http://thomas.loc.gov) do a search on the subject fishing.   At first I was upset at the thought of more goverment fees and regulations in order to enjoy my favort pasttime, but after really reading the bill, it may be a pretty good idea, we will be able to fish more than one state without having to buy out-of-state licenses What do you think about the idea of a national fishing license?

Up until a few years ago we had different licences for different areas in the UK. It’s a lot better now that there is only one license and only slightly more expensive. IMO one of the best things that happened to fishing in the UK. Compuserve:       100520,2042 Do not use a hatchet to remove a fly from your friend’s forehead. (Apparently a Chinese proverb)

Response:

: What if the cost of a state license was around $16.25 (N.J. 1995 price) : and the cost of a Federal license were $18.00.

 in your example such a state would get 1/51 of $1.75, less the enormous amount the Federal government would pocket. Faced with a loss of revenue, the management programs such as stocking, would suffer in those places.  I personally would rather pay more, to fish some place good, than pay a little more just to be able to fish in more, mediocre places. As to those people who are not concerned the Federal government wouldn’t siphon off the money, check out Social Security. Last, the Federal government has no authority for creating such a law. Unless it is strictly a tax. If the states want to agree amoung themselves that’s another matter.

Each state would get 1/51 of 18.00 less the siphoned off funds (I would persume) not 1/51 of 1.75  why would the gov give the state 16.25? just because thats what they themselfs charge for a resident license? Most likely what will happen is the Fed gov will take over stocking operations, which will no doubt get mucked up and turn into a SUPERFUND waste.  Even though you say you will pay a little more for a state license in order to get better fishing,  others will not, and will be fishing right along side of you. there will be  no stocking done, the EPA will start screaming about LEAD,  the Attorny General will be screaming about Mercury, in the fish.   of course youll have to buy a saltwater license after that…. Personally I am begining to feel that it is not a good idea for the Gov to get involved within state fishing licenses.  the savings in order to fish in more than one state, does not compair to the costs that will be incurred with headaches.

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: What if the cost of a state license was around $16.25 (N.J. 1995 price) : and the cost of a Federal license were $18.00.

 in your example such a state would get 1/51 of $1.75, less the enormous amount the Federal government would pocket. Faced with a loss of revenue, the management programs such as stocking, would suffer in those places.  I personally would rather pay more, to fish some place good, than pay a little more just to be able to fish in more, mediocre places. As to those people who are not concerned the Federal government wouldn’t siphon off the money, check out Social Security. Last, the Federal government has no authority for creating such a law. Unless it is strictly a tax. If the states want to agree amoung themselves that’s another matter.

Each state would get 1/51 of 18.00 less the siphoned off funds (I would persume) not 1/51 of 1.75  why would the gov give the state 16.25? just because thats what they themselfs charge for a resident license? Most likely what will happen is the Fed gov will take over stocking operations, which will no doubt get mucked up and turn into a SUPERFUND waste.  Even though you say you will pay a little more for a state license in order to get better fishing,  others will not, and will be fishing right along side of you. there will be  no stocking done, the EPA will start screaming about LEAD,  the Attorny General will be screaming about Mercury, in the fish.   of course youll have to buy a saltwater license after that…. Personally I am begining to feel that it is not a good idea for the Gov to get involved within state fishing licenses.  the savings in order to fish in more than one state, does not compair to the costs that will be incurred with headaches.

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Personally I am begining to feel that it is not a good idea for the Gov to get involved within state fishing licenses.  the savings in order to fish in more than one state, does not compair to the costs that will be incurred with headaches.

Is it even legal?  The Constitution gives the federal government power to regulate interstate commerce.  Other powers it reserves for the states.  Is there some sort of precedent for this?  If there is, I’d think they’d want to make a national driver’s license before a national fishing license. | |                                                                       | | | John H. Kim          "Just try telling the IRS you don’t feel like    | | | Keeper of the Fishing FAQ        ftp://tuna.mit.edu/d/pub/fishing/faq |

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Personally I am begining to feel that it is not a good idea for the Gov to get involved within state fishing licenses.  the savings in order to fish in more than one state, does not compair to the costs that will be incurred with headaches. Is it even legal?  The Constitution gives the federal government power to regulate interstate commerce.  Other powers it reserves for the states.  Is there some sort of precedent for this?  If there is, I’d think they’d want to make a national driver’s license before a national fishing license.    John, they did!  It is the federal comercial drivers license (CDL)

and now costs $40 as opposed to the former class a license in Texas, which was $13!  Everything is legal if it’s unopposed!

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The house of Rep. in washington is considering a bill to establish a national fishing license,  at this point it is only a bill to althorize the study of feasability of a national fishing license ( H.R. 406 ih) to read the actual bill go (http://thomas.loc.gov) do a search on the subject fishing.   At first I was upset at the thought of more goverment fees and regulations in order to enjoy my favort pasttime, but after really reading the bill, it may be a pretty good idea, we will be able to fish more than one state without having to buy out-of-state licenses What do you think about the idea of a national fishing license?

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The problem with a national license is that all of the funds that are now generated by individule states for their particular fisheries managment programs would disapear.  

What if the cost of a state license was around $16.25 (N.J. 1995 price) and the cost of a Federal license were $18.00.  would you buy the federal license for a few more dollars and be able to fish anywhere,  or would you buy the state license?   I agree that there is much room for revenue abuse,  but would you make the purchase? Wally

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The house of Rep. in washington is considering a bill to establish a national fishing license,  at this point it is only a bill to althorize really reading the bill, it may be a pretty good idea, we will be able to fish more than one state without having to buy out-of-state licenses What do you think about the idea of a national fishing license?

The problem with a national license is that all of the funds that are now generated by individule states for their particular fisheries managment programs would disapear.  I’m sure that once Washington got ahold of the money it would somehow get diverted to some other use rather than fisheries managment.  Even though it would be nice to be able to fish anywhere with only one license, I think that this is a bad idea. MHO Bryan Stafford

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: The problem with a national license is that all of the funds that are : now : generated by individule states for their particular fisheries managment : programs would disapear.   : What if the cost of a state license was around $16.25 (N.J. 1995 price) : and the cost of a Federal license were $18.00.  would you buy the federal : license for a few more dollars and be able to fish anywhere,  or would : you buy the state license?   This overlooks the fact that less populous states with good fishing benefit from the influx of non-resident license dollars. While it might save you some bucks, in your example such a state would get 1/51 of $1.75, less the enormous amount the Federal government would pocket. Faced with a loss of revenue, the management programs such as stocking, would suffer in those places.  I personally would rather pay more, to fish some place good, than pay a little more just to be able to fish in more, mediocre places. As to those people who are not concerned the Federal government wouldn’t siphon off the money, check out Social Security. Last, the Federal government has no authority for creating such a law. Unless it is strictly a tax. If the states want to agree amoung themselves that’s another matter.

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       It will probably do the same thing the Federal commercial drivers license did!  I held a class A license since I was 21, but at $13 a year I could afford it even though I was no longer driving "big rigs".  The "Fed" came in and now the class A in Texas is $40!  I went back to a class c!        There is NO WAY I want the Federal Gov’t involved in "our" fishing, and if you take a look at what the NFWS is doing, you won’t either!!!

The way the bill reads ( H.R. 406) is that the Federal license would not replace the state license,  it would be available as an alternive. you could still opt to purchase the state license and fish only within the state,  or you could buy the Federal license and fish in any state.  also you would need to buy any additional spieces stamps that the state you wanted to fish in imposed, if you were going to fish for that spieces or in waters that were stocked with that spieces ( in N.J. you need to buy a trout stamp to fish for trout,   it costs about 8.75 and looks like a postage stamp,  you affix it to your license)

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