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And, there are plenty of obnoxious people who aren’t wealthy. Snoop
Is it really necessary or proper to talk about me behind my back in a public forum? Op
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Nothing funny about that IMO.
I didn’t say *you* would think it was funny. <g But I do. Kind of like moving to a whorehouse to be around pretty girls – you have to put up with the occasional customer. — Charlie…
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I fished the Bighorn on Wed & Thurs.
I’m jealous! Usually, I get over there for a few days this time of year, but it doesn’t look like I’ll make it this spring. 
I have no idea how one would go about fishing a dry with all of the stuff on the water.
I’ll occassionally use a parachute-style with a flourescent orange post. You might be surprised. There were some dirty orange scuds and one black leach about 3 inches long.
Streamers. Big, ugly, heavy streamers… on a sink-tip…swinging and stripping….swing and stripping (could be new lines for another song, Warren) We saw a few sports at the cafe that were really decked out.
You gotta love Polly’s! A great place to eat…..and probably the only place in the state where they’d look at you funny if you WEREN’T wearing waders. I’ll bet the pressure is on the guides to get these high rollers some fish. Kevin and I derived some perverse pleasure in catching fish right in front of the high rollers while the guide was trying to help them get a cast out at least 10 feet:)
There is NOTHING more frustrating than to have fish slurping away in front of you and your people just CANNOT put it together to get the fly past the oar. AAARRRGGGHHH! On a side note: Did they all have on the big "hair ball" "bazooka blobs" "exploding fireworks" kinda strike indicators that you can see for a gazillion feet??? — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno 406-626-4022
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I’ll occassionally use a parachute-style with a flourescent orange post. You might be surprised.
Good idea. I should have thought of that. I did have one fish come close to taking my flor. green strike indicator. I’ll give it a try next time I go. You gotta love Polly’s! A great place to eat…..and probably the only place in the state where they’d look at you funny if you WEREN’T wearing waders.
I like it because it’s a cheap place to stay in the off season. The food’s pretty good, too, but a little overpriced. I had the steak sandwich Wed. night. It was really good but didn’t "sit well" and I was up half the night. Meat tenderizer? The really cheap rooms at the cafe were booked so Kevin and I got the trailer. That costs $36.00/head but it was nice and roomy. I think you could sleep 8 or 9 people there but I’ll bet they close it up and winterize for the off season. On a side note: Did they all have on the big "hair ball" "bazooka blobs" "exploding fireworks" kinda strike indicators that you can see for a gazillion feet???
Yes, there were quite a few of those on the river. I tried them once and didn’t like them. I use the larger foam floats with the slit down the side and a piece of rubber through the center. They seem to cast better for me, are easily adjustable and always float. What’s the deal with the giant fluff balls? No wonder so many people have trouble casting in the wind. Wouldn’t they get along better with the more streamlined floats? Also, as a guide, do you have any humorous stories to tell? I think most guides must earn every penny. Looks like a tough life to me. Also looks like a good way to turn an enjoyable hobby into drudgery. Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
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I didn’t say *you* would think it was funny. <g But I do. Kind of like moving to a whorehouse to be around pretty girls – you have to put up with the occasional customer.
Well, whatever floats your boat there Charlie.
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Well, whatever floats your boat there Charlie.
I don’t think it’s my boat that’s bothering you… — Charlie…
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Nothing funny about that IMO. I didn’t say *you* would think it was funny. <g But I do. Kind of like moving to a whorehouse to be around pretty girls – you have to put up with the occasional customer.
As one of the very people you described (first visited here for the fishing and camping, then moved here for the fishing and camping), I agree with you that it’s funny. What’s even funnier is that we don’t really mind the tourists, despite our griping, as long as they remain tourists. What really, really, really annoys us is when they want move here like we did. 
JR
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As one of the very people you described (first visited here for the fishing and camping, then moved here for the fishing and camping), I agree with you that it’s funny. What’s even funnier is that we don’t really mind the tourists, despite our griping, as long as they remain tourists. What really, really, really annoys us is when they want move here like we did.
You should see how annoyed the whorehouses get under similar circumstances ! 
TL MC
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As one of the very people you described (first visited here for the fishing and camping, then moved here for the fishing and camping), I agree with you that it’s funny. What’s even funnier is that we don’t really mind the tourists, despite our griping, as long as they remain tourists. What really, really, really annoys us is when they want move here like we did.
That’s funny. How about it, Warren? Do you have a come back? (I’m saying that as an unapologetic, recent, fair-weather Idaho transplant.) Where do you live, JR? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/
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What really, really, really annoys us is when they want move here like we did.
Yep. I hope to share that feeling about someplace, someday. <g — Charlie…
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Where do you live, JR?
Bend, Oregon, which was a wonderful place before I arrived, became a true paradise on earth for a while after I got here, and is now a stinking hell hole, altogether a far, far less attractive place than many I can think of in Idaho and Montana. JR
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As one of the very people you described (first visited here for the fishing and camping, then moved here for the fishing and camping), I agree with you that it’s funny. What’s even funnier is that we don’t really mind the tourists, despite our griping, as long as they remain tourists. What really, really, really annoys us is when they want move here like we did. You should see how annoyed the whorehouses get under similar circumstances !
I dunno, amateur night at the local is always an " uplifting " experience. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – TL MC
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That’s funny. How about it, Warren? Do you have a come back? (I’m saying that as an unapologetic, recent, fair-weather Idaho transplant.)
Yeah I have a come back. You got to draw the line somewhere so I move that we start with RW. ~ Seriously though, JR is right to some degree. When you move somewhere and become accustomed to a certain quality of living, you have to do what you can to protect it. If I moved to an area because it was remote, had everything that I wanted and the very reasons why I moved here were threatened due to overcrowding, you better believe I am going to bitch when things start getting crowded. Most of it isn’t so much the number of people but the quality around here. Californians are equated as being liberal tree huggers who want their 20 acre "ranch" along the river and despise the stream access laws. It is somewhat true, but there are a lot of people from back East who are far worse in my experiences. It is a more a quality of the people coming issue. Natives don’t give me any crap for being an ex resident of California because I hold many of the same views as they do and am not a threat to the quality of life. Now that I am a resident and have been for several years, am bound to this valley by blood that I cannot leave, I am somewhat trapped. I do not make any money off tourism and never have. Tourists decend in hoards upon the rivers that I fish year around and force me to either brave the masses or fish somewhere else. It doesn’t bother me too much because I don’t go the rivers where I feel like I can’t fish. I have plenty of places to fish, even on the crowded rivers, that see fewer people. In some areas it is a problem and that isn’t just me saying that. That is the opinion of users of the resources when polled by the DFW. The Beaverhead is a prime example of that. I think I told the story about how I was there opening day last year and the place was so crowded you couldn’t even find a campsite. Two Montana plates, the rest from out of state. My take on this, and Charlie can laugh if he wants to, is that I am a resident. I pay taxes here, I live here, the water was deeded over to the state by the federal government (if you need legal citings, I can provide them). It is property of the state, not the union. Our state Constitution is not applicable to residents of other states in regards to property. Just like you don’t go by Montana property laws if you live outside of Montana and we don’t go by other state’s laws. Being a resident and being governed by the state Constitution and the laws of Montana, I should have a greater right to the water than someone from out of state. It is a right under our Constitution, BTW. I am not calling for an outright ban on out of state anglers or anything like that, just some limits so that residents of this state can enjoy what is theirs once in a while. I was hoping they were going to either give river permits on a limited basis on crowded waters to out of state anglers, or set aside certain days for residents. There is only one river that I have fished where this is necessary and that is the Beaverhead. The Big Horn is a much larger river and even when crowded, I have never felt like I was lacking water to fish. Same thing on the Madison. I find there is plenty of water to fish and only a few areas that are really crowded to the point where there are problems and the quality of the experience is diminished due to the crowds. The whole issue of crowds is a seasonal case anyways. I always have the winters to enjoy being one of the few people on a river, if not the only person. That’s my story and I am sticking to it. <g — Warren Findley Shut up and fish! For Yellowstone Clave info: http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/YNP.html
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Bend, Oregon, which was a wonderful place before I arrived, became a true paradise on earth for a while after I got here, and is now a stinking hell hole, altogether a far, far less attractive place than many I can think of in Idaho and Montana.
That’s just an outright lie. Idaho is the best place to be. Montana is scorched Earth, whirling disease desimated trout streams, New Zealand mud snail infested, and dirt poor. Idaho on the other hand isn’t as bad off. Oregon is the best place in the world to be though. They have good paying jobs, excellent hunting and their fishing is one of the best kept secrets in the lower 48. HTH — Warren Findley Shut up and fish! For Yellowstone Clave info: http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/YNP.html
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Bend, Oregon, which was a wonderful place before I arrived, became a true paradise on earth for a while after I got here, and is now a stinking hell hole, altogether a far, far less attractive place than many I can think of in Idaho and Montana. That’s just an outright lie. Idaho is the best place to be. Montana is scorched Earth, whirling disease desimated trout streams, New Zealand mud snail infested, and dirt poor. Idaho on the other hand isn’t as bad off. Oregon is the best place in the world to be though. They have good paying jobs, excellent hunting and their fishing is one of the best kept secrets in the lower 48. HTH
Well, there’s another damnable lie (about Oregon, the Calcutta of the West), but at least it’s offset by the God’s honest truth about Idaho: the new Jerusalem, brothers, an Elysian utopia with trout the size of snowmobiles and blissful citizens (of the very highest ethical standards, mind you) ready to welcome their fellow sportsmen with open arms. Every fishing and hunting guide a nubile ex-cheerleader who makes Angie look like Howard Stern. Every publican and shopkeeper a source of freely shared information– earned over a lifetime–about honey holes where the steelhead chase each other off in order to be the first to impale themselves on your hook. Fishing in Oregon?!?! Oh, my. A long time ago, maybe. Now you could catch more fish out of the average toilet bowl in New York City, son. And even that was before the Terrible Drought of 2001, a sure harbinger of impending ecological collapse. These days, before you can tie on a fly in Oregon you have to file an environmental impact statement. Hell’s bells. Everyone *here* is moving to Idaho! JR
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It’s also funny to see people who live in states that make a bunch of money from tourism bitch about tourists, especially the ones who were tourists there once themselves. <g
I don’t make any money off of tourism either directly or indirectly and haven’t been any tourist related industries. I moved to Montana without ever coming as a tourist. I got accepted to school out here, had relatives who used to live out here and moved based on pictures, school, and their opinion of the place, and the promises of good fishing and hunting. I am now a legal resident, have been for 5 years, I was married here, my daughter was born here and I am trapped here until my daughter gets older. Nothing funny about that IMO. — Warren Findley Shut up and fish! For Yellowstone Clave info: http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/YNP.html
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A few more trips and you will have a new definition of crowded. Glad you caught lots of fish, always makes the trip more enjoyable. I hear you on the high rollers who can’t cast. Catching fish in front of them is always a blast and I am happy you got that experience
Oh, yeah, you have some experience being in a boat with a tyro who couldn’t cast, don’t you? Did your "line welts" heal up? I’m afraid I came off anti elitist. It’s not any of my business how much someone wants to spend on their hobby. They aren’t any different from you or me. They just want to have fun. Of course, they can buy a lot more fun than a lot of us:) Still, I can’t help suffering from some smug satisfaction when I catch fish on my $40.00 Three Forks while they flail away with their $2,500 bamboo rods. (Heck, I’m still trying to save money for one of G’s moderately priced bamboo rods.) Once I get my last daughter out of college I may be able to splurge a bit. My goal in life is to end up like Charlie—-80 rods with a deluxe reel for each one. But, I won’t take it as far as he does. You know, long finger nails, long gray beard and hair, sleeps with all his rods, wears a white gown and sprays everyone and everything with disinfectant spray and designs large, wooden airplanes:) Snoop —
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The ones that crack me up are those that think their money will get them fish. My buddy that guided in Idaho last summer had some stories about several rich, stuck up people who didn’t want to learn how to do things the right way, but thought that the gear they bought and the money they spent on a trip guaranteed them success. Money does not equate with skill or success and it is hard for these people to realize that. When I see them out there flailing the water into a froth giving dirty looks to their guides as if it is his fault, I get a laugh. Especially after I pull out fish right in front of them. It isn’t that I am against people with money who fish, hell I fish with RW don’t I?
Anyone, wealthy or not, who goes to the expense and time to travel to fish with a guide and doesn’t take local advice gets what they deserve. I have a good friend who guided in Alaska for 20+ years. Had a couple of jet boats and a Cessna 180 on floats. He guided hunters and fishermen. We’ve sat around a few campfires and listened to his stories. Very interesting. The hunters were the worst. Generally, the fishermen were easier to be around. The bear stories were hair raising and I don’t think I care to fly with any Alaska bush pilots. (Well, actually, I don’t like flying with anyone else but my friend who’s a retired 747 pilot.) It is the attitude of the rich, stuck up snobs that I enjoy tweaking. I have met several people who had tons of money out fishing and were actually very eager to learn and asked lots of questions. Those types of people I like, very down to earth and just willing to learn because they love fly fishing. It is the ones who have to announce to an entire fly shop that they need to use their Platinum card to buy half dozen flies as if we should be impressed that they have a Platinum card that piss me off, the ones like Peter posted about at one of the fly shops he goes to with the guy’s buddy looking at a reel, etc. I enjoy watching them suffer when they go fishless because they are too stubborn and stuck up to listen to the "hired help" or "riff raff". They are out there and certainly do exist. I have found the Big Horn to have a high concentration of those types of people.
Yep, those are the people who rub me the wrong way. But, they’re not necessarily rich. A lot of those clowns are up to their necks in credit card debt and are one pay check away from losing cars, houses and their mistresses. And, there are plenty of obnoxious people who aren’t wealthy. Snoop —
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I enjoy watching them suffer when they go fishless because they are too stubborn and stuck up to listen to the "hired help" or "riff raff". They are out there and certainly do exist. I have found the Big Horn to have a high concentration of those types of people.
It’s also funny to see people who live in states that make a bunch of money from tourism bitch about tourists, especially the ones who were tourists there once themselves. <g — Charlie…
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My goal in life is to end up like Charlie—-80 rods with a deluxe reel for each one. But, I won’t take it as far as he does. You know, long finger nails, long gray beard and hair, sleeps with all his rods, wears a white gown and sprays everyone and everything with disinfectant spray and designs large, wooden airplanes:)
That’s my late uncle Howie you’re describing. I helped him write his will, but I don’t want to be like him.
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Oh, yeah, you have some experience being in a boat with a tyro who couldn’t cast, don’t you? Did your "line welts" heal up?
Yeah, the line welts went away and the lump from getting nailed by split shot and bead heads eventually went away also. I’m afraid I came off anti elitist. It’s not any of my business how much someone wants to spend on their hobby. They aren’t any different from you or me. They just want to have fun. Of course, they can buy a lot more fun than a lot of us:) Still, I can’t help suffering from some smug satisfaction when I catch fish on my $40.00 Three Forks while they flail away with their $2,500 bamboo rods.
The ones that crack me up are those that think their money will get them fish. My buddy that guided in Idaho last summer had some stories about several rich, stuck up people who didn’t want to learn how to do things the right way, but thought that the gear they bought and the money they spent on a trip guaranteed them success. Money does not equate with skill or success and it is hard for these people to realize that. When I see them out there flailing the water into a froth giving dirty looks to their guides as if it is his fault, I get a laugh. Especially after I pull out fish right in front of them. It isn’t that I am against people with money who fish, hell I fish with RW don’t I? It is the attitude of the rich, stuck up snobs that I enjoy tweaking. I have met several people who had tons of money out fishing and were actually very eager to learn and asked lots of questions. Those types of people I like, very down to earth and just willing to learn because they love fly fishing. It is the ones who have to announce to an entire fly shop that they need to use their Platinum card to buy half dozen flies as if we should be impressed that they have a Platinum card that piss me off, the ones like Peter posted about at one of the fly shops he goes to with the guy’s buddy looking at a reel, etc. I enjoy watching them suffer when they go fishless because they are too stubborn and stuck up to listen to the "hired help" or "riff raff". They are out there and certainly do exist. I have found the Big Horn to have a high concentration of those types of people. — Warren Findley Shut up and fish! For Yellowstone Clave info: http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/YNP.html
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I fished the Bighorn on Wed & Thurs. It was a great trip. I caught 9 fish on Wed. and 18 on Thursday. That’s more like it!
Thanks for the report. I also find larger rivers more difficult to fish (and less fun) than smaller waters. It is more like lake fishing to me. Since they are so large and usually so deep, fish holding and feeding areas often must be inferred rather than observed. A low gradient river like the Bighorn is even more difficult. Willi
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Thanks for the report. I also find larger rivers more difficult to fish (and less fun) than smaller waters. It is more like lake fishing to me. Since they are so large and usually so deep, fish holding and feeding areas often must be inferred rather than observed. A low gradient river like the Bighorn is even more difficult. Willi
One of the biggest problems I face is the amount of weight needed to fish deeper holes and/or fast current. Slinging all that weight with an indicator and dropper fly all day in the wind is not my idea of great fun. Snoop —
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A few more trips and you will have a new definition of crowded. Glad you caught lots of fish, always makes the trip more enjoyable. I hear you on the high rollers who can’t cast. Catching fish in front of them is always a blast and I am happy you got that experience
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I fished the Bighorn on Wed & Thurs. It was a great trip. I caught 9 fish on Wed. and 18 on Thursday. That’s more like it! As I said in another post, I couldn’t believe the number (tons ?) of midges on the water and in the air. With all of the midges available, we saw very little surface action. I have no idea how one would go about fishing a dry with all of the stuff on the water. Perhaps an unrelated, larger fly like a Royal Wulff? All of the action for us was on nymphs, scuds or midge pupa. One of the hottest flies was the brown/tan thread body, black thread head that I learned about at the San Juan clave tied on size 20 & 22 hooks. The guy that I was fishing with (Kevin) kept a few Browns and checked stomach contents. Most of the contents were the little brown/gray midge pupa. There were some dirty orange scuds and one black leach about 3 inches long. We caught about half browns and half bows. No whitefish this time. We floated from 3 mile to Bighorn both days. The river was crowded but I guess I’m getting more used to it. We did fish one side channel that was too shallow for drift boats and spent a lot of time there both days. We had no one else fish through so it was quite enjoyable. This was probably the best area we fished on this trip. I think this kind of water is easier to fish. The main river just seems so big and intimidating and I have a hard time knowing where to start to fish. There’s just so many choices. It seems like a lot of places I think are "fishy" don’t have any fish that I can catch. I spent a lot of time watching other fishermen and the guides. Kind of a fun pastime but probably responsible for a lot of missed fish. We saw 2 beautiful wood drift boats that looked like they came off the showroom floor. It was interesting watching all of the different experience levels of fishermen. It seemed like there were a lot of novices on the stream these 2 days. We saw a few sports at the cafe that were really decked out. Looked like they just fell off the cover of a LL Bean catalog. Some of those guys had more money invested in one rod that I have in all my fishing gear. I guess a few of the resorts up there are $500/day. I’d like to visit with a few of those guys just to see what they think about the whole deal. I imagine flying into Billings from big cities in the east or west would be kind of a mind blower. Wonder what they thought when they traveled through the "beautiful" town of Lodge Grass or finally arrived at Ft Smith? I’ll bet they felt like they were at the end of the world. I’ll bet the pressure is on the guides to get these high rollers some fish. Kevin and I derived some perverse pleasure in catching fish right in front of the high rollers while the guide was trying to help them get a cast out at least 10 feet:) Of course, we were all the style what with our North Dakota drift boat (20 year old John boat) and our flashy dress (we looked like all of the roffers I’ve met at claves with the exception of Charlie who is always spiffed up to a "T", I suppose in case he runs across a high class book store or brothel). I suppose that’s my last trip to the Horn until late fall. We should be thawing at the higher elevations shortly around here and I’ll be going to work in a couple of weeks which will really raise hell with fishing for awhile:( Snoop —
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I fished the Bighorn on Wed & Thurs. It was a great trip. I caught 9 fish on Wed. and 18 on Thursday. That’s more like it! As I said in another post, I couldn’t believe the number (tons ?) of midges on the water and in the air. With all of the midges available, we saw very little surface action. I have no idea how one would go about fishing a dry with all of the stuff on the water. Perhaps an unrelated, larger fly like a Royal Wulff? All of the action for us was on nymphs, scuds or midge pupa. One of the hottest flies was the brown/tan thread body, black thread head that I learned about at the San Juan clave tied on size 20 & 22 hooks. The guy that I was fishing with (Kevin) kept a few Browns and checked stomach contents. Most of the contents were the little brown/gray midge pupa. There were some dirty orange scuds and one black leach about 3 inches long. We caught about half browns and half bows. No whitefish this time. We floated from 3 mile to Bighorn both days. The river was crowded but I guess I’m getting more used to it. We did fish one side channel that was too shallow for drift boats and spent a lot of time there both days. We had no one else fish through so it was quite enjoyable. This was probably the best area we fished on this trip. I think this kind of water is easier to fish. The main river just seems so big and intimidating and I have a hard time knowing where to start to fish. There’s just so many choices. It seems like a lot of places I think are "fishy" don’t have any fish that I can catch. I spent a lot of time watching other fishermen and the guides. Kind of a fun pastime but probably responsible for a lot of missed fish. We saw 2 beautiful wood drift boats that looked like they came off the showroom floor. It was interesting watching all of the different experience levels of fishermen. It seemed like there were a lot of novices on the stream these 2 days. We saw a few sports at the cafe that were really decked out. Looked like they just fell off the cover of a LL Bean catalog. Some of those guys had more money invested in one rod that I have in all my fishing gear. I guess a few of the resorts up there are $500/day. I’d like to visit with a few of those guys just to see what they think about the whole deal. I imagine flying into Billings from big cities in the east or west would be kind of a mind blower. Wonder what they thought when they traveled through the "beautiful" town of Lodge Grass or finally arrived at Ft Smith? I’ll bet they felt like they were at the end of the world. I’ll bet the pressure is on the guides to get these high rollers some fish. Kevin and I derived some perverse pleasure in catching fish right in front of the high rollers while the guide was trying to help them get a cast out at least 10 feet:) Of course, we were all the style what with our North Dakota drift boat (20 year old John boat) and our flashy dress (we looked like all of the roffers I’ve met at claves with the exception of Charlie who is always spiffed up to a "T", I suppose in case he runs across a high class book store or brothel). I suppose that’s my last trip to the Horn until late fall. We should be thawing at the higher elevations shortly around here and I’ll be going to work in a couple of weeks which will really raise hell with fishing for awhile:( Snoop —