Question:

Today I took the day off work and decided to head out to Loch Lomond in Santa Cruz California to get in some flyfishing. Loch Lomond is a beautiful lake for being so close to an urban center. It’s a reservoir in a mountain valley… and if you squint just a little and ignore all of the picnic tables and hiking paths, you would swear you’re at a lake in the high sierra. It has resident populations of bass, catfish, panfish, and is planted in the spring with rainbows.  Of course, the trout is my fish of choice. Since the lake doesn’t allow wading or float tubes, your only choice is to bring or rent a boat if you want to flyfish… renting is cheap, and they rent only rowboats, so I get a free workout thrown in. I didn’t get on the lake until 11am (had to drop my daughter off at school, etc), so I did get a late start.  Thanks to the fog, though, conditions were cool and the fish were still near the surface.  One after one, I try all the dries in my flybox.. but they’re not hitting. Strange, because they are ocassionally rising (though not very often)… to what?  That’s the big question, and one I still don’t know the answer to.  Maybe there are emergers, but I can’t see any. I also try nymphing a little bit… but no luck there either. Of course, I notice the trollers and the bait dunkers at the shore aren’t having any better luck.  A couple people had good luck earlier, before I arrived, but nobody is catching. Anyway, it was a GREAT day, even if I didn’t catch a damn thing.  I was off the water by 2pm, just when the fog burned off and the air started to heat up a little.  I WILL go back soon, it was great! Now, here’s the request for knowledge section of this post: HOW does one fish nymphs in a lake?  I’ve fished dries in high sierra lakes, and dries and nymphs in rivers, but never nymphs in lakes.  Do they need movement?  The current is moving a little in the lake.  Any advise you can give me? Also, what do you think they were rising for?  Yea, I know you weren’t there, but if you had to guess…. Thanks for the help…

Response:

HOW does one fish nymphs in a lake?  

Buy and read Gary LaFontaine’s Fishing the High Mountain Lakes. You might try dangling a small brassie (chironomid imitation) below an indicator, especially if there’s a little ripple on the surface. Works for me. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

<SNIP Also, what do you think they were rising for?  Yea, I know you weren’t there, but if you had to guess….

Chironomids. ( Midge pupa). Have a look here; http://www.bcadventure.com/adventure/angling/protalk/chan/confession…. The rest of the site is worth a good look as well. TL MC

Response:

Try this one as well; http://www.fishbc.com/adventure/angling/flies/chironomid/pupa.phtml TL MC

Response:

Thanks! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HOW does one fish nymphs in a lake? Buy and read Gary LaFontaine’s Fishing the High Mountain Lakes. You might try dangling a small brassie (chironomid imitation) below an indicator, especially if there’s a little ripple on the surface. Works for me. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Thanks and thanks! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have a look here; http://www.bcadventure.com/adventure/angling/protalk/chan/confession…. The rest of the site is worth a good look as well. TL MC

Response:

 Chironomids, all various colors coming off lakes or any other hatch you can identify are difficult to fish on lakes.  The trout are many times large and they are cruisers.  The difficulty in fishing for cruising trout feeding on emerging Chironomids is timing.  Timing is everything. Pick a fish out that you see break the surface one, two, cast, three!  The fish are taking Chironomids just under the surface, not on top of it.  They cruise about a foot or two under looking up.  They come up and take the food in an arch, their backs breaking the water.  This means you may have to try dangling about six to eight inches of tippet "under the water" and float the rest of the tippet and leader on top.  Lead the fish, and then twitch about an inch or two.  Dress the first few inches of leader with Xink and that includes the nymph or Chironomid pattern of your choice.  Float the rest of your leader and fly line. "The Take," is one of perpetual motion and a cruiser will hook themselves for obvious reasons.  The initial response is one of surprise.  Make sure you lower your rod tip level and sideways to the first run because it will be a duzzie! Hope this helps.  You WILL catch fish. George Gehrke "Chironomids are Cillers"

Response:

Question:

Folks, I may be in the northeast the week of March 15, and was wondering if there are any sections of rivers, streams etc, in upstate NY, VT or NH that are open. If so, what can one expect this time of the year re streamflow, hatches, best patterns to use? Thanks for any info you can provide! Alex

Alex, There are many rivers that are legally open in Vermont.  The question is whether they are open due to ice.  Two good bets, weather dependent, are the Winooski River and Lewis Creek.  Hatches are scant.  Wooly buggers are your best bet, as well as other streamers.  Brown stoneflies can be around if the spring is early. Stream flows are a coin toss from downright perrfect to flood to a July trickle depending on rain and snowfall.  Good luck and I would be happy to answer any other questions you might have. Vermont Outdoors Magazine 2 Church Street Burlington, VT 05401 (802) 860-0003 Fax: (802) 860-0005 http://www.vermontoutdoors.com

Response:

Folks, I may be in the northeast the week of March 15, and was wondering if there are any sections of rivers, streams etc, in upstate NY, VT or NH that are open. If so, what can one expect this time of the year re streamflow, hatches, best patterns to use? Thanks for any info you can provide! Alex

Response:

Question:

Right now, I feel like a well-meaning liberal in the French Revolution’s Reign of Terror: someone about to get his head chopped off. Well, c’est la vie. Please read the exchange of email between Ms. Birkholm and myself. I think it will suggest the rejoicing over L’affaire Rupe should be tempered with some restraint, not taking a number 10 wt rod to a minnow. We not talking John Birch Society, as far as racism goes, or Amazon, as far as professional websites. FAOL came out of the initiative of two amateurs, like much of what is best of the Internet, and should not be allowed to die ignored any more than Old Rupe’s remarks should have gone unnoticed in the first place. Let’s keep some sense of proportion. We all get into unintentional trouble because we don’t know how to handle it. I have experienced and seen enough racism in my life not to recognize genuine evil which should be stamped out. I hope enough ROFF members will second what I’m saying to perhaps give the Birkholms room to reconsider.

   Dear Laurence,   Thanks for your comments – right now I am seriously considering closing the   website.   It seems unreal and incredible that people calling us racist and inciting murder do   not   realize the seeds of hate they planted with everyone they contacted – and that   includes   all of our sponsors.   The whole issue happened because our editor, my husband Jim (JC) had fallen,   broke   6 ribs and punctured a lung.  He tried to do his job, but the Codine which allowed   him to   sit at the computer at all obviously obstructed his judgement.  We apologized   publicly   on Monday, and the disclaimed was attached to the article as soon as we received   it   from rupe.  The article has been removed, and the hate mail to us personally   continues.   We are now listed on some web list server as "racists and murders" and have   become   a target.  I don’t know if I can continue to produce the volume of work we do   every week   with this happening.  The haters out there, some of whom were/are our readers,   have   broken my heart.  Hard to produce a work of passion when your heart isn’t in it.   If you can think of a fix, let me know.  I don’t think there is one.   Regards,   Deanna   Below is the result of your feedback form.  It was submitted by   () on Sunday, December 5, 1999 at 11:52:10 —–     name: Lawrence Rottersman     address: 2191 NW Glisan St. #206     City: Portland     State: OR     Zip: 97210     Country: usa     tel: 503-220-5081     fax: 503-220-5081       Topic of this contact: Comment on an Article     Comments: Mr. and Mrs. Birkholm: I was one of, maybe, two or three, who   stuck up for you during the Old Rupe issue. So I hope you will at least   think about the following:     As an expublicist, I can tell you what you already know. you’re clumsy at   public relations. But that doesn’t make you racists.     Don’t give into the people who are gloating and displaying your head as some   kind of trophy. You have a really good site, the best  I have seen on fly   fishing, and one of the best, period.     Keep going. Everybody runs into bumps. Again, as a publicist, I can assure   you that today’s news that’s exorcising everybody, will be dimly remembered   tomorrow, and probably not at all the day after.     (If you do change your mind, it might not be a bad idea–I say very   respectfully–to get someone with editorial experience to look over the copy   submitted, for taste as well as clarity. Everybody needs someone to look   over their shoulder for the gaffes we all make.)       —–     REMOTE_HOST: i48-07-12.pdx.du.teleport.com   REMOTE_ADDR: 216.26.3.140   HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/4.7 [en] (WinNT; I)

Response:

Ok I know I am a big bad evil bogeyman.  Whatever. Copy of my last e-mail exchange with Ms.Birkholm. Last post dated Sunday 05.dec. 1999  21.05 PM Deanna, after all this you are still somehow missing the point. This is not a personal thing. You published an inflammatory and racist article, you refused to listen to protests, and the disclaimer and the other stuff were just too little too late.  This was the wrong thing to do.  I do not for one minute believe you or JC are racists, or murderers, or even Rupe for that matter, although the whole mess is mainly his fault, what I think is however irrelevant. You published the damn article, and then supported it.  This was a grave error of judgement, which was pointed out to you almost immediately by a large number of people.  You did not even reply to these people. Under duress from your sponsors, and presumably other pressure from readers and contributors,  you finally retracted, apologised grudgingly and removed the article, agreeing that it was inflammatory, Deanna, nearly  a whole week went by with people you know and like, and who know and like you, a lot of readers, and other contributors complaining daily, and you did nothing sensible to stem the rising tide of anger and outrage caused by the article. I am afraid I just can not understand this. Deanna, I can appreciate you being under considerable stress because of all this, and I really do feel extremely sorry that it happened, but I have even more trouble trying to figure out why you do not realise why.  I doubt if any of those people who protested  wished to damage you personally, I certainly did not. They just wanted to see that racist crap removed or at least an assurance that it was not supported by FAOL.You did not give that assurance, and you continued to support the article, quashing and suppressing the protests on your boards, I presume mainly because of your loyalty to Old Rupe.  While I can identify with this, and even admire  your stubborn loyalty to some degree, it was misplaced here, and a serious mistake. You are a public figure, the well known and respected publisher and editor of a major online fishing magazine, surely you did not imagine that there would be no protest ? Or that people would not take you to task ?  Right thinking people will not tolerate this sort of thing, you are a right thinking person normally, what on earth influenced you to do such a crazy and dangerous thing ?  Did you just have a blind spot or a blackout here ? You threw a lighted match into a barrel of gas, and now you are wondering why the damn thing has exploded ?  Come on,  you are far more intelligent than that. I am well known for my anti-racist views, I imagine you would have known this, there has been more than enough publicity about it.  Surely you did not think I would remain silent in view of such blatant racism ? You know my views and principles on many things, you can not possibly imagine that I could ignore something like this on a site with which I was so closely associated ? I sent several letters asking people to retract their protests and e-mail the sponsors immediately the article was retracted.  As I already said elsewhere though, words are like bullets, once fired they can not be unfired. The only reason for this whole mess was that article. With it gone you have at least a chance. I beg you also to realise that there was nothing personal in any of this from my side, and also that I was certainly not the only person who was outraged by the article.  Most people carried out their protests without any assistance whatsoever. If I were in your present position I would do the following.  I would explain in my next editorial that I was under considerable stress due to my husband having had a serious accident, because of this I relied too heavily on a friend, and the result was that this inflammatory article somehow crept through unedited, not wanting to upset the friend, and out of a sense of loyalty, too little was done to remedy the problem and it just got out of hand. I assume this is more or less what happened anyway. Apologise for your honest mistake and carry on. I am sure you will receive more than enough support if you apologise forthrightly to your readers and sponsors, explaining the circumstances. It grieves me considerably that you have been subjected to such extreme personal distress, I hope that this soon lifts, and that you will put this behind you and carry on. Do not give up because of one stupid mistake. I think people will understand if you tell them the truth, and you will not lose as much as you think now because of it. Sincerely and with great personal regret and understanding for your distress and bitterness. Mike Connor —–Urspr

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been fishing streams recently and noticing that the last 2-3 feet of my line is sinking.  It is a Cortland 444 WF-5-F line and is about a year old and hasn’t been heavily fished.  Besides cleaning the line, is there anything else I can do to prevent this?….it makes it hard to keep the fly up! Also, what is the best product out there for making the line slide through the guides better? Thanks Dustin Let the line dry out for a good period, and then ensure that the end is sealed with a good waterproof glue or similar, water may be seeping into the core. Otherwise use the cortland line cleaner and dressing. TL MC

Yes, I agree. Check the line to make sure, let it dry and use some line cleaner/dressing. If that doesn’t work, make sure you are mending your line so that that current isn’t pulling it under. DAYGLOW York Team DBE

Response:

I get the same problem with my Airflo 7000, I tried cleaning it and that helped, but I will try sealing it now!

Response:

I have been fishing streams recently and noticing that the last 2-3 feet of my line is sinking.  It is a Cortland 444 WF-5-F line and is about a year old and hasn’t been heavily fished.  Besides cleaning the line, is there anything else I can do to prevent this?….it makes it hard to keep the fly up! Also, what is the best product out there for making the line slide through the guides better? Thanks Dustin

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been fishing streams recently and noticing that the last 2-3 feet of my line is sinking.  It is a Cortland 444 WF-5-F line and is about a year old and hasn’t been heavily fished.  Besides cleaning the line, is there anything else I can do to prevent this?….it makes it hard to keep the fly up! Also, what is the best product out there for making the line slide through the guides better? Thanks Dustin

Let the line dry out for a good period, and then ensure that the end is sealed with a good waterproof glue or similar, water may be seeping into the core. Otherwise use the cortland line cleaner and dressing. TL MC

Response:

Question:

This weekend I will be staying 4 days in Acadia/Bar Harbor, Maine and I have no idea where to flyfish, and what is being used. Please help.  I am not familiar with the area, and I will not have a boat.  Just a pole, me and my waders..the way I like it best. Mac

Response:

Hi There, I fish that area of Maine a lot during the summer, but I have a boat.  You might try Long Pond, just outside Somesville.  It’s a beautiful lake with landlocked salmon and smallmouth bass.  You can rent canoes there too so you can actually get out on the water.  The bass take surface poppers during the early hours in the summer.  You might try in the middle of the lake in what’s called the "narrows" between the Eastern and Western arms.   You also might want to try fishing for smallmouth on the Union River, just north of Ellsworth.  I’ve never fished the river, but the lake (Graham) is pretty good.   If you want to go farther afield, you can try the Penobscot north of Bangor.  There are plenty of places to get down to the river.  The fishing will be mostly for smallmouth bass.The ride is about an hour and a quarter from Bar Harbor.   Hope this helps. Mac Rubel

Response:

This weekend I will be staying 4 days in Acadia/Bar Harbor, Maine and I have no idea where to flyfish, and what is being used. Please help.  I am not familiar with the area, and I will not have a boat.  Just a pole, me and my waders..the way I like it best. Mac

Mac, In the park, try upper and lower breakneck ponds and witch hole pond. Also, bubble pond can be waded but I’ve never had much luck there.  I know of no good streams in the area.  If you find any please let me know.  Good luck, Rick

Response:

This weekend I will be staying 4 days in Acadia/Bar Harbor, Maine and I have no idea where to flyfish, and what is being used. Please help.  I am not familiar with the area, and I will not have a boat.  Just a pole, me and my waders..the way I like it best. Mac Many ponds in the park although I don’t know if they are Open or not.I

think all ponds in Maine are open until the end of Oct. but I am not sure of this.If you are serious about getting some good fishing in you gotta get to the Kennebec River.About 2 hours from Bar Harbor. The Fairfield Area is a good base of operation.Stop by Flyfishing Only and ask Mike whats working.This area has Browns,Rainbows,Brookies and Salmon. Downriver from Fairfield about 20 miles is Augusta and I understand the Stripers are really hot right now.Just fish anywhere below the Edwards Dam. Good Luck

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This weekend I will be staying 4 days in Acadia/Bar Harbor, Maine and I have no idea where to flyfish, and what is being used. Please help.  I am not familiar with the area, and I will not have a boat.  Just a pole, me and my waders..the way I like it best. Mac Many ponds in the park although I don’t know if they are Open or not.I think all ponds in Maine are open until the end of Oct. but I am not sure of this.If you are serious about getting some good fishing in you gotta get to the Kennebec River.About 2 hours from Bar Harbor. The Fairfield Area is a good base of operation.Stop by Flyfishing Only and ask Mike whats working.This area has Browns,Rainbows,Brookies and Salmon. Downriver from Fairfield about 20 miles is Augusta and I understand the Stripers are really hot right now.Just fish anywhere below the Edwards Dam. Good Luck

You might look for the book: "The Downeast Guide to the Lakes and Ponds of Mt. Desert" by William P. Newlin.  ISBN 0-89272-270-3  Downeast BooksP.O. box 679, Camden, ME 04843.  Best luck fishing.

Response:

Question:

I WAS A LITTLE DISAPPOINTED AT THE SNOBBY ATTITUDE OF THOSE WHOM I ASKED FOR HELP AND ADVICE.

Maybe if you weren’t YELLING at them, they would have been a little more  friendly. Tip: Eliminate drag. When I take less experienced people there, that is usually the biggest problem I have in getting them to catch fish. You need to mend a lot. That’s one of the reasons you see the people in boats catching more fish (there are other reasons). From a boat, you are higher up, and it is easier to eliminate the drag. Plus, the guide will assist you in this process. Using a longer rod will also help, as you can get a more vertical presentation, but it really takes experience to see and understand this drag thing. Good luck, Bill Schudlich Santa Fe, NM

Response:

I WAS A LITTLE DISAPPOINTED AT THE SNOBBY ATTITUDE OF THOSE WHOM I ASKED FOR HELP AND ADVICE. Maybe if you weren’t YELLING at them, they would have been a little more  friendly. Tip: Eliminate drag.

Are you saying that I should leave my bra in the blazer ? Or just wear it on the inside of my vest ? TimW

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ON LABOR DAY I WAS PRIVILEGED TO FISH THE SAN JUAN RIVER. I AM NOT AN EXPERIENCED FLY RODDER BUT AM ANXIOUS TO LEARN. I WAS A LITTLE DISAPPOINTED AT THE SNOBBY ATTITUDE OF THOSE WHOM I ASKED FOR HELP AND ADVICE. EVERY PERSON AROUND ME WAS CATCHING HUGE FISH, JUST LIKE I READ ABOUT. AT 7:00 IN THE EVENING AFTER TRYING ALL DAY I FINALLY HOOKED A 5 LB RAINBOW. WHAT A THRILL. IS THERE ANYONE OUT THERE WHO IS WILLING TO SHARE THIER METHOD FOR CATCHING THESE FINE FISH? I’M SURE YOU CAN IMAGINE MY DAY OF FRUSTRATION. THE TROUT WERE FEEDING VORACIOUSLY ON EMERGERS AND I FELT THAT MY PRESENTATION WASN’T CORRECT. ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED. EVEN A GUIDE REFERRAL WOULD HELP ON MY NEXT JOURNEY…JOHN Hi John It would be my guess that you were in a situation where "drag" was causing your fly to not act like a natural insect.  Drag happens when the various currents grab your fly line and leader consequently pulling the fly accross the current.  You will need to learn a little about reading the water, what the water does to your fly line & fly, and how to mend to compensate for the waters action on your line. As a guide here in Montana getting inexperienced people to recognize drag is a major part of my job.  Explaining it in person can be a challenge, trying to do so over the net is almost impossible.  I suggest you get with your local fly shop and arrange for lessons on reading the water and how to get a "drag free float."  OR you could join a local fly fishing club and learn from a new friend.  Call the Federation of Fly Fishers at 406-585-7592 for information on a club near you. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog)

EXCELLENT ADVICE! George

Response:

ON LABOR DAY I WAS PRIVILEGED TO FISH THE SAN JUAN RIVER. I AM NOT AN EXPERIENCED FLY RODDER BUT AM ANXIOUS TO LEARN. I WAS A LITTLE DISAPPOINTED AT THE SNOBBY ATTITUDE OF THOSE WHOM I ASKED FOR HELP AND ADVICE. EVERY PERSON AROUND ME WAS CATCHING HUGE FISH, JUST LIKE I READ ABOUT. AT 7:00 IN THE EVENING AFTER TRYING ALL DAY I FINALLY HOOKED A 5 LB RAINBOW. WHAT A THRILL. IS THERE ANYONE OUT THERE WHO IS WILLING TO SHARE THIER METHOD FOR CATCHING THESE FINE FISH? I’M SURE YOU CAN IMAGINE MY DAY OF FRUSTRATION. THE TROUT WERE FEEDING VORACIOUSLY ON EMERGERS AND I FELT THAT MY PRESENTATION WASN’T CORRECT. ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED. EVEN A GUIDE REFERRAL WOULD HELP ON MY NEXT JOURNEY…JOHN

Hi John It would be my guess that you were in a situation where "drag" was causing your fly to not act like a natural insect.  Drag happens when the various currents grab your fly line and leader consequently pulling the fly accross the current.  You will need to learn a little about reading the water, what the water does to your fly line & fly, and how to mend to compensate for the waters action on your line. As a guide here in Montana getting inexperienced people to recognize drag is a major part of my job.  Explaining it in person can be a challenge, trying to do so over the net is almost impossible.  I suggest you get with your local fly shop and arrange for lessons on reading the water and how to get a "drag free float."  OR you could join a local fly fishing club and learn from a new friend.  Call the Federation of Fly Fishers at 406-585-7592 for information on a club near you. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog)

Response:

ON LABOR DAY I WAS PRIVILEGED TO FISH THE SAN JUAN RIVER. I AM NOT AN EXPERIENCED FLY RODDER BUT AM ANXIOUS TO LEARN. I WAS A LITTLE DISAPPOINTED AT THE SNOBBY ATTITUDE OF THOSE WHOM I ASKED FOR HELP AND ADVICE. EVERY PERSON AROUND ME WAS CATCHING HUGE FISH, JUST LIKE I READ ABOUT. AT 7:00 IN THE EVENING AFTER TRYING ALL DAY I FINALLY HOOKED A 5 LB RAINBOW. WHAT A THRILL. IS THERE ANYONE OUT THERE WHO IS WILLING TO SHARE THIER METHOD FOR CATCHING THESE FINE FISH? I’M SURE YOU CAN IMAGINE MY DAY OF FRUSTRATION. THE TROUT WERE FEEDING VORACIOUSLY ON EMERGERS AND I FELT THAT MY PRESENTATION WASN’T CORRECT. ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED. EVEN A GUIDE REFERRAL WOULD HELP ON MY NEXT JOURNEY…JOHN

Response:

Question:

   To All;   I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.    Harry

Response:

  To All;  I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.   Harry

Hi Harry, I offer my ideas regarding the 5 things that make a high quality fly from my perspective, a commercial fly tier: 1. Durability – quality materials, strong hook, etc. 2. Proper proportions, tail length, hackle, etc. 3. Attractive to the fly fisher 4. Attractive to the fish 5. Will sell It will be interesting to see what other fly tiers/fisher think. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

Response:

   To All;   I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.    Harry

Harry,         Here’s my list of the five characteristics of a good quality fly: Durability – It has to last.  This isn’t art for art’s sake. Ease of tying – The point is to go fishing sometime this century.  I         lose enough flies that I need to tie more than one per day. Bugginess – Oh, that elusive quality.  If it doesn’t "look buggy" it         probably will never get tied on my tippet.  I’ve carried flies         for years that just don’t get a rise out of me. Availability of Ingredients – Part of this is my frugality.  But, part         is my ecological awareness.  If I’m going to have to spend         my tying and fishing time tracking down materials, I’m outta         here. Catches Fish – Course, before I know this, I’ve tracked down the         materials, easily tied the fly, am confident in its durability,         and have tied it on my tippet.  But, hey, this is what we’re         doing this for, isn’t it? Charley

Response:

  To All;  I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.   Harry

Reply Never counted my reasons. 1. Do I enjoy tying the fly? 2. Does it REALLY require all of those materials that I don’t have? Can I sub. and    still have a good looking fly that will work. 3. Do I have confidence in the fly. 4. Do I need another fly like this one. How many of this type do I already carry that    I don’t use now. 5. And back to # 1. If I like to tie the fly thats what matters. I’m here for just      the fun.  CU, Steve Birkes Buckner, Mo.

Response:

  To All;  I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.

I can boil it down to just three things: 1.  It has to catch fish. 2.  It has to catch fish. 3.  It has to catch fish. Larry H.

Response:

I fish mainly in still waters and I fine one other quality to be of importance when tying.I like to call this Pulsability; giving the illusion of a bubbling, pulsating, swimming creature. John Hafner

Response:

Harry, as a former pro tyer I would have to say it’s more a case of WHO makes a good fly. Style and expertise does not come to everyone, even if you have the correct materials for any given pattern.   To All;  I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.   Harry

– dave tait

Response:

I fish mainly in still waters and I fine one other quality to be of importance when tying.I like to call this Pulsability; giving the illusion of a bubbling, pulsating, swimming creature. John Hafner

A good fly should take less time to tie than it does to lose it.    -Ralph —

Response:

  To All;  I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.   Harry

1. proportion 2. balance 3. durability 4. castability 5. silouette these are what i shoot for when tying flies for stripers, etc. shade/color would probably come in 6th for me.                                                 jc

Response:

        Does it catch fish?         That, essentially, is the bottom line.

Response:

        Does it catch fish?         That, essentially, is the bottom line.

Yes, but,…… There are lots of flies out there that catch marlin, peacock bass, sharks, etc.  They catch fish, but are not a good fly for me.  I don’t get to sea too often.  And, when I do, I’m usually looking for salmon! So, now we have to add the delimiter, "Does it catch the fish I’m after?". This is such a complex question! :^) Charley

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         Does it catch fish?         That, essentially, is the bottom line. Yes, but,…… There are lots of flies out there that catch marlin, peacock bass, sharks, etc.  They catch fish, but are not a good fly for me.  I don’t get to sea too often.  And, when I do, I’m usually looking for salmon! So, now we have to add the delimiter, "Does it catch the fish I’m after?". This is such a complex question! :^) Charley

Hi Charley, Good point Charley! My flies always catch the fish I’m after IF i’m telling the story.?! Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

Response:

Al Beatty said: Hi Charley, Good point Charley! My flies always catch the fish I’m after IF i’m telling the story.?!

Cheers for Al’s honesty.  I will add that if they don’t, I damn quick change the story. Dick Hubbard

Response:

   To All;   I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.    Harry

Harry: 1. Ease of tying: most of us fit fly tying between the responsibilities work, running a home, and the ten o’clock news. Functional patterns are not necessarily a compromise. You can crank out a dozen brown-hackle-peacocks or BWO compara duns in the time it takes to tie half-as-many extended body paradrakes. This is not to say you don’t need extended body paradrakes–just save the more involved patterns for those rare occasions when you have a few hours to spend on the vice. 2. Proportions and technique: Spend time understanding how to size hackle and dimension tails; without such understanding, you can easily turn a humpy into a spider. Study A. K. Best’s "Production Fly Tying." He explains technique in this book, not recipes for ties (this book is made most valuable as a reference source: when you’re lashing down a moose mane tail, you can consult the book for a brief technique refresher before you begin, and your flies look a little better for your trouble). 3. Materials: Garbage in, garbage out. Webby dry fly hackle, too soft biots, it doesn’t matter. There’s nothing you can do to disguise poor materials. 4. Hooks: I used to recycle hooks but quit when I discovered that hooks grow weaker in boxes–every time your fly box gets submerged, the hooks will weaken from rust, particularly where the bend enters foam. I prefer Tiemco (particularly the 200R) and Daichi hooks. 5. Bottom Line: tie patterns that have proved their worth on the waters you fish. While just about any pattern will work at one time or another, there are a lot of useless diversions out there. Get to know old timers and knowledgable guides. They’ll turn you on to patterns you won’t find in books. Mitch Mulhall

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    To All;   I have been asked by some in my tying classes , what 5 things makes up a High Quality Fly. The question is valid and would like to hear what the ROFF group may say.    Harry Harry: 1. Ease of tying: most of us fit fly tying between the responsibilities work, running a home, and the ten o’clock news. Functional patterns are not necessarily a compromise. You can crank out a dozen brown-hackle-peacocks or BWO compara duns in the time it takes to tie half-as-many extended body paradrakes. This is not to say you don’t need extended body paradrakes–just save the more involved patterns for those rare occasions when you have a few hours to spend on the vice. 2. Proportions and technique: Spend time understanding how to size hackle and dimension tails; without such understanding, you can easily turn a humpy into a spider. Study A. K. Best’s "Production Fly Tying." He explains technique in this book, not recipes for ties (this book is made most valuable as a reference source: when you’re lashing down a moose mane tail, you can consult the book for a brief technique refresher before you begin, and your flies look a little better for your trouble). 3. Materials: Garbage in, garbage out. Webby dry fly hackle, too soft biots, it doesn’t matter. There’s nothing you can do to disguise poor materials. 4. Hooks: I used to recycle hooks but quit when I discovered that hooks grow weaker in boxes–every time your fly box gets submerged, the hooks will weaken from rust, particularly where the bend enters foam. I prefer Tiemco (particularly the 200R) and Daichi hooks. 5. Bottom Line: tie patterns that have proved their worth on the waters you fish. While just about any pattern will work at one time or another, there are a lot of useless diversions out there. Get to know old timers and knowledgable guides. They’ll turn you on to patterns you won’t find in books. Mitch Mulhall

  To Mitch and all who took the time to reply, thank you !!  I will take these notes to the start of yet another class Thursday night.   Again Thanks    Harry

Response:

Question:

Will someone please post the materials list for a Pheasant Tail nymph.  I can’t believe it but my three tying books don’t list the pattern! Thanks, Johnny

Response:

Will someone please post the materials list for a Pheasant Tail nymph.  I can’t believe it but my three tying books don’t list the pattern! Thanks, Johnny

Thread – tan Tail – pheasant tail tips Body – pheasant tail fibers wrapped like herl Ribbing – thin copper wire Thorax – copper wire (for bulk and added weight) over-wrapped with peacock               herl Wing case – pheasant tail with fibers divided at the head and turned back on               either side as "legs" (trimmed to 2/3 body length) – can be tied as bead head or with variations (flashback, mylar ribbing, etc.) Good fishing!  J. Rice

Response:

materials: cock ring-neck pheasant tail, peacock herl, fine copper wire, black thread, 1X nymph hooks (pretty fancy, huh?) tie thread base, tie tail using 4-8 barbules from tails feather depending on size equal to 1/2 length of hook shank (no longer) with 3-4 wraps of thread; tie in copper wire, wrap tail fibres forward to midpoint; counter wrap copper wire rib, tie off and trim (your thread is now just forweard of the midpoint of the shank); fold back fibres over top of fly and tie down with a couple of wraps; tie in peacock herl and wrap a full thorax; fold fibers forward over the herl forming the case, tie down with 3-4 wraps of thread; divide fibres and fold back along the sides to form legs, tie down and whip finish. I don’t think I left anything out. A little practice and you should be able to tie 16-20 flies per hour with a rotary vice. Personal variations permitted. Hope this helps. — Ken Clark Ft. Lupton, CO

Response:

I’m not sure what a book might say, but I’ve tied thousands with the following: cooper wire Pheasant Tail Fibers Peacock Herl Lead underbody (if allowed) Tie in tail of 3-6 tail fibers, Tie in a length of pheasant tail fibers 1/8′ or so wide and 1 1/2 times the length of hook shank and wrap fibers forward to 2/3 point of shank (do not cut butts)  rib with wire forward tie down with thread wrap peacock in for thorax and bring pheasant over top of hook for wing case tie down pull a few fiber out to side as legs tie off your done. Good luck, Great Nymph

Response:

Pheasant tails, peacock hurl, fine copper, hook and thread. John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS

Response:

Will someone please post the materials list for a Pheasant Tail nymph.  I can’t believe it but my three tying books don’t list the pattern!

The original English tie by Frank Sawyer uses only PT herl and fine copper wire (i.e. no thread.)  If your wire is fine enough, it’s all you need. (A cheap source is transformers from broken electrical gadgets.) — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Will someone please post the materials list for a Pheasant Tail nymph.  I can’t believe it but my three tying books don’t list the pattern! Thanks, Johnny

Hi Johnny Here is the dressing as written by Frank Sawyer in the 1950s.  Sawyer was a river keeper and is the man credited with the invention of the PTN. This dressing may not be what you were expecting as it uses fine copper wire rather than thread.  Although that sounds difficult, I have dressed some of these myself and it wasn’t that hard.  They were also VERY effective.  Good luck. Russ         Now as to the dressings.  The materials used are quite easy for         most, who are interested, to obtain.  To represent the several         olive nymphs my pattern of the pheasant tail can be constructed         on three different hook sizes, No 00, No 0 and No 1*, and I         make no claim that the use of pheasant tail fibres for the body         of nymphs or flies is original.  But what I do claim is the         manner of the base building, ballasting, and the tying in of         the pheasant tail fibres with fine copper wire, of a colouring         to suit and tone in which the general dressing.  Artificial         nymphs tied in my way are not difficult to make, and the simple         instruction I am able to give should be sufficient for anyone         with nimble fingers to follow.         First grip the selected hook firmly in the vice and then give         the hook an even covering from bend to eye with fine         red-coloured copper wire.  The wire we use is little thicker         than a human hair and this one can obtain at little cost from         various sources.  It is used for the windings in small         transformers, dynamos, or electric motors.  After the hook has         been covered and the wire locked so that it cannot spin around         the hook shank, wind the wire in even turns to the point where         the thorax of the nymph is to be constructed, and there build         up a hump.  Then wind the wire back to the hook bend and let it         dangle.  Wire is much easier to use than silk as it will not         spin off or loosen if the tension is relaxed.         The wire with its red colour forms the base for the dressing         and at the same time gives additional weight to the hook.  I         dispense entirely with the use of silk and use the fine wire to         tie in the dressing.  The wire is now dangling from the hook         bend.  Take the four centre fibres of the browny-red cock         pheasant tail feather.  Hold the fibres by the tips and then         tie them on the with the wire so that the fine ends stand out         about one eighth of an inch from the hook bend.  They form the         tails, or the set of the nymph.  Then spin the four fibres of         the pheasant tail on to the wire so that they are reinforced,         and then lap fibres and wire evenly to the hook eye.  Hold the         wire firmly, separate the fibres from it and then wind the wire         to the point behind which the thorax is to be made.  Bend the         fibres back and fasten for the first lap of the thorax, then         forward to the eye of the hook again.  Fasten here securely         with half a dozen turns of wire and then cut away spare         fibres.         Our finished effort should have a very pronounced thorax which         suggests the bulging wing cases, and a body which tapers neatly         to the tail.  With the tail fibres spread, all is complete.         It will be noted by those who follow these instructions that         the upper part of the thorax which imitates the wing cases is         much darker than the rest of the body.  This is brought about         by the lapping back and forth of the butt ends of the pheasant         tail fibres.  If wire and fibres are wound evenly on the hook,         the spare ends should have the dark tone which is a feature in         the butts of these fibres.  This gives a very natural         appearance to the thorax.  The fibres of pheasant tail vary in         length, and indeed texture, from the butt of the feather to the         tip, so when dressing a nymph one can select lengths most         suitable for the size of the hook, bearing in mind that when         the body is made the dark part is ready to use for lapping.         When wet this pattern has a translucent effect and one can see         the red of the wire showing through the pheasant tail fibres.         The artificial, so constructed, has a very good entry to water         and will sink deeply when required.  The hook point is not         muffled or guarded in any way by hackles or by the dressing,         and a slight lift of the rod will drive it home. * Modern sizes 14, 15 and 16

Response:

Will someone please post the materials list for a Pheasant Tail nymph.  I can’t believe it but my three tying books don’t list the pattern! Thanks, Johnny

The nymph is tied with copper wire as thread.  Leaving a long tag, wrap to the bend.  Tie in about 6 pheasant tail fibers, leaving the tips for the tail.  Wrap the wire to the start of the thorax (2/3 up the shank), then create a body by wrapping the butts of the pheasant tail.  Tie them off with the wire, then use the long tag to rib the body.  Tie off the copper ribbing with the copper "thread" then trim everything.  Tie in a larger bunch of pheasant tail fibers, with the tip length about hook shank length, then some peacock herl (2-3).  Wrap the wire almost to the eye, then back to the herl, then forward again.  This weights the nymph, so wrap according to what you want.  Wrap the herl to create a plump thorax, tie it off, and trim it.  Pull the fibers over the herl to create a wing case, then pull about three to each side and create legs.  Wrap a copper head, and finish. BTW, this nymph REALLY works if fished deep.

Response:

Thanks to everyone for the help on the pattern! Johnny Johnson

Response:

Thanks to everyone for the help on the pattern! Johnny Johnson

This is just funny enough that I’ve got to share it with ya’ll. I’ve long been a collector of road kills, much to the chagrin of both my wife and my oldest son, Michael.  Well, last month, while riding my bicycle to work…. you guessed it– I found a road kill. Well, sort of.  It was a coil that some technician had probably set on top of his car before pulling out of the parking lot.  And, it had been run over a few times.  It was definitely dead! Then, along comes this whole discussion of the original PT pattern. Lo and behold, the coil is just the thing for the wire component of the original PT pattern.  To make it even better, a hunter friend gave me two pheasant hides this year.  I’m tying nymphs for the price of the hook! So, my question is:  Has our sport gotten a little out of hand when the HOOK is over 99% of the cost of a fly?  :^) Tight pants^h^h^h^hlines! Charley

Response:

Speaking of personal variations: For the thorax, I like to dub.  I use a dubbing loop, and stuff a couple of small bunches of selected fur in.  I keep the guard hairs in with the soft underfur.  Then I twist up the loop and wrap.  Then pull the butt ends of the PT over top as a wing case and tie off.  The guard hairs in the dub look like legs/assorted appendages and give the fly a bit more life. Another variation: Don’t put a wing case on.  I.E., tie it "in the round".  This is a philosophical thing.  In the vise, we’re always thinking of the top and bottom of the fly, but this may not be how it will behave in the water.  There is a philosophy that suggests that an upside down nymph is as upsetting to a trout as any other "error" when tying, for example some type of pure "match the hatch" dry fly. Bob Lundy IWFFC Mississauga, ON http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rlundy/

Response:

Will someone please post the materials list for a Pheasant Tail nymph.  I can’t believe it but my three tying books don’t list the pattern!

Hi Johnny, The Pheasant Tail is included in my fly tying web site. If you’d like, it can be found at… WWW Fly Tyer:    http://www.ns.net/~barnard (this is a non-commercial site)  :-) Look in the category "modern nymph". You will find both a recipe and step-by-step instructions. I hope this helps,    Alan.

Response:

So, my question is:  Has our sport gotten a little out of hand when the HOOK is over 99% of the cost of a fly?  :^)

That’s the way it should be; it’s out of hand when it’s the other way around ! One a similar subject, I regularly donate trout to a friend and he regulary brings me cock pheasant centre tail feathers from his father-in-law’s shoot.  I now have ~150 of the damn things. I’d like to get into dyeing or bleaching them so I have some choice over colour; does anyone have any experience of this please ?  Where do I start ? Thanks in advance Russ

Response:

One a similar subject, I regularly donate trout to a friend and he regulary brings me cock pheasant centre tail feathers from his father-in-law’s shoot.  I now have ~150 of the damn things. I’d like to get into dyeing or bleaching them so I have some choice over colour; does anyone have any experience of this please ?  Where do I start ? Thanks in advance Russ

Well, Russ, it just so happens I know the answer to this because I found it today while researching an article for my fly fishing club newsletter. American Angler ran a five part series of articles called "Modern Dyes and Dyeing for Fly Tiers", by Wm. T. Roubal, from May, ‘94 through Jan, ‘95.  The one on bleaching was the last one, Jan. ‘95. Charley

Response:

Thanks to everyone for the help on the pattern! Johnny Johnson

One other suggestion.  Have had good results using PT tied with greyish-brown dubbing for the thorax instead of peacock herl.  Might even try that with flashabou wing casing.  Whatever way you tie it, the PT just never stops producin!!! g

Response:

One other suggestion.  Have had good results using PT tied with greyish-brown dubbing for the thorax instead of peacock herl.  Might

PT inventor Frank Sawyer also made a similar nymph using grey goose herls (improvised on the spot in N. Sweden, if I remember right). — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The thing of it is, all this competitive junk we heap upon our pursuits more often than not will keep us from enjoying them fully. Don’t worry about your ‘level’, answer the question ‘Am I having fun ?’ If yes, then keep doing it ! An interesting aside, I was recently approached to run a FFing school and was kind of uneasy about it, though I didn’t know why. This string answered my question, think I’ll pass !                                               jc COME ON!    jeeze!   you guys are relentless!  The level thing was obviously (to me) a tongue in cheek post concerning the realization that that you really *are* here to be in the moment and enjoy your surroundings : 5)just go fishing and soak in the experience, catching fish just a plus…   If you guys would stop trying to be so damned elitist, you would see that half the posts you flame are posts you would agree with if you would take the time to read them.

Congratulations, You have demonstrated a command of the language which may be unobtainable by the "elitists".  Words do have meaning.  Reading is such hard work. Dennis

Response:

: I’ve been flyfishing for more than a decade, and a couple of years ago I : realized I had reached the fifth level of flyfishing. The levels are: : 1) catch a fish with this hard to operate equipment : 2)catch lots of fish : 3)catch a large fish : 4)catch lots of large fish : 5)just go fishing and soak in the experience, catching fish just a plus… I’m at all these levels, I love to fish and catch fish, whether it’s tarpon in Florida or bluegill down the road, or just watching a trout feed and not wetting a line.  Why limit yourself.  I will fish for anything, anywhere, anytime and enjoy it. John

Well said! Jack

Response:

How many of you were ever new to flyfishing? Do you remember that first stike, how the excitement surged as you "swung and missed". And that rush as you clumsily horsed in you first fish. And what about the satifaction as you let that first big brute go after a battle well fought. Let us not loose sight of why we fish…That big chess game we play with Mother Nature. Instead of limiting the players, why not educate them on how the "game" is played. Anyone who wants to enjoy this wonderfull sport of Flyfishing should be able to WITHOUT the harassment of others. Maybe a helping hand should be extended instead of a judgemental finger. Dana Clark

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Pavlov) writes: : : tim:  look, why don’t you cut folks like the originator of this thread : a little slack.  he did nothing to deserve your relentless sarcasm, … : Maybe everyone is getting a little touchy.  I don’t see how Tim’s posts reflected on the originator of the thread.  The one that you quoted was a response to someone else altogether.  greg pavlov

It never fails to amaze me that regardless of the hobby, there are those who use their proficiency as a weapon to downgrade those who are less accomplished.  When I first got into photography (prior to the wonders of the internet) I ran into the same smug and demeaning attitude I find on this forum on occasion.  Let’s face it, after A River Ran Through It was released thousands of newcomers became enamoured with flyfishing.  Some of these people are just trendy types who confuse fishing with ownership of all the toys.  They will never really appreciate the joy of standing in a stream and taking it all in. Most of these people will fish awhile and then put their equipment in the closet along with the remains of their other short-term obsessions.  On the other hand, there are those who seriously enjoy the experience and who plan on spending the next several years learning flyfishing and being responsible in what they do.  Oldbies should take the time to learn the difference. Bo Johnson

Response:

Dear Gentlemen;         If I may expand this idea of "the clothes make the man": Sure, there are a lot of middle-aged and younger flyfisherman with the newer more technologically developed gear, but look at where 4-wheel drives have gone.  Who would have ever though a uper-mid. class house wife would lust after a Chevy Blazer, for heaven’s sake!  There are a lot of established F.Fisherman here in the east who don’t have a lot of money and who persue their sport with the single-midedness of an olympic athelete.  They welcomed me to thier waters, (if not thier ranks, yet), and gave me the info I neede to catch fish.  None of these guys act in a demeaning way if you do not have the best equipment.  If you have the *right* equip., that is important.  They know what will catch trout.  They also know that just having the right equip. guarantees nothing.  Stuff works or it doesn’t.  Sometimes, no matter how good you rod is, well, trout can’t read, and they have no concept of money.  Some fantastic F.Fisherman from my home area, NW PA, have rather inexpensive glass rods and cheap reels.  They learned long ago that the flyline and the presentation of a fly which the trout *might* take are the most important factors.  We cannot get on people’s cases about equipment.  Technique will be lost.  I honestly need better technique.  I know I don’t do what I should as well as I should, but expensive equipment (or new) will not help me.  Overall, I have found that the oldest of the order are the most accepting of new blood.  They are less competetive for fish.  I owe them tremendously.                   Sincerely;                 Jason Beary

Response:

Another level altogether: when you take your neighbor’s kid out because he/she looks a little down.  You leave your rod behind so you can concentrate on helping this youngster have the best time he/she possibly can. — Laboratory for Applied Logic    Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho             www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster —–BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK—– Version: 2.6.2 mQCNAzDtvLEAAAEEAKAC21G2Be0K0DMgjLpxrwLmsYfCz8rWcfgyABjr3Ryfk1dO nV7fFFpUF3xohR7die+/B2V9oqRQzTLeSF2ECKlsTY/yUyw2kn+P2ju1umh4Fwzd cVTvc+H69q1+Ft3kmw/PE0Pan+g0PUGGJ43stw3q4OgBHdixbRd/f9giJFDxAAUR tCZKYW1lcyBBLiBGb3N0ZXIgPGZvc3RlckBjcy51aWRhaG8uZWR1PokAlQMFEDD8 ReEXf3/YIiRQ8QEBFrAD/2AFuRWcD/3MENC3qJMC/Or1qxknjkK7Uv+TDf2LHPOY GHBbG9PyWuXQ8of0Dd+JYwf/tzlO9Yk1s1zTdikfriak21FW0bCokxDIhA3myppZ IZDWVA9CyvDYHuP5Ii1NkBvocab813JzDLZA+0iVN5sebGb9zSXR4Za47hlriHeP =RDHK —–END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK—–

Response:

"Another level altogether: when you take your neighbor’s kid out because he/she looks a little down.  You leave your rod behind so you can concentrate on helping this youngster have the best time he/she possibly can." This person is a "master" fly fisher. We all concentrate on our equipment, where we fish, how many fish we catch and so on. After many years we reach a level where we own fine quality equipment, we’ve fished all of the popular waters for a variety of species, and we’ve caught more fish than we can remember – and probably fewer than we sometimes profess. At this time we are regarded by our peers and ourselves as accomplished and notable fly fishers. But, until you take the time to pass along you knowledge, in a gentle and patient manner, you have not mastered the sport. Congratulations on reaching this ultimate plateau.

Response:

I’ve been flyfishing for more than a decade, and a couple of years ago I realized I had reached the fifth level of flyfishing. The levels are: 1) catch a fish with this hard to operate equipment 2)catch lots of fish 3)catch a large fish 4)catch lots of large fish 5)just go fishing and soak in the experience, catching fish just a plus…

Is it possible that there is a (6) Be near water dreaming of the fishes with no intention of doing anything to them, but knowing that you could, if you wanted to..? Rowing my little dory on trappers lake and seeing all of the cutts in the gin clear water with no desire for… Dooo Dooo Dooo…. …ripping lips. Tim Walker

Response:

: (6) Be near water dreaming of the fishes with no intention of doing : anything to them, but knowing that you could, if you wanted to..? Tim, maybe you should start an RFD for "rec.outdoors.stop-fishing" because that’s what you seem to advocate nowadays. — Jeff Smith                                     Graduate student http://www.msc.cornell.edu/~jeffs         Cornell University, Ithaca, NY

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : (6) Be near water dreaming of the fishes with no intention of doing : anything to them, but knowing that you could, if you wanted to..? Tim, maybe you should start an RFD for "rec.outdoors.stop-fishing" because that’s what you seem to advocate nowadays. Nah… But I’d like to see… rec.outdoors.flyfishing.lets-put-the-fishing-back-in-flyfishing rec.outdoors.flyfishing.is_fashionable rec.outdoors.flyfishing.natural_order_is_extinct rec.outdoors.flyfishing.C&R.might_as_well_stock_the_olympic_sized_pool rec.outdoors.flyfishing.pensive rec.outdoors.flyfishing.binaries.pictures.erotica.trout.tasteless Tim Walker

tim:  look, why don’t you cut folks like the originator of this thread a little slack.  he did nothing to deserve your relentless sarcasm, which is simply becoming tiresome to many of us who might even agree with some of your positions.  if you want to engage in competitive verbal abuse, pick on someone your own size.  just email me or fletcher or jeff smith, etc., when you feel froggy.  meanwhile, let the newbies and the innocents alone to do their walden/thoreau thing in peace. a. wayne harrison

Response:

: : : (6) Be near water dreaming of the fishes with no intention of doing : : anything to them, but knowing that you could, if you wanted to..? : : Tim, maybe you should start an RFD for "rec.outdoors.stop-fishing" : because that’s what you seem to advocate nowadays. : : Nah… <blah, blah, blah : Tim Walker Tim… *yawn* oh, nevermind. -chuck o. —

Response:

I’ve been flyfishing for more than a decade, and a couple of years ago I realized I had reached the fifth level of flyfishing. The levels are: 1) catch a fish with this hard to operate equipment 2)catch lots of fish 3)catch a large fish 4)catch lots of large fish 5)just go fishing and soak in the experience, catching fish just a plus… Am I alone, or have others experienced this with their own fishing?? Oh yeah, I’m the guy who started the thread about discovering "slower" rods and increasing my enjoyment of the sport 10 fold… Dennis

Response:

: I’ve been flyfishing for more than a decade, and a couple of years ago I : realized I had reached the fifth level of flyfishing. The levels are: : 1) catch a fish with this hard to operate equipment : 2)catch lots of fish : 3)catch a large fish : 4)catch lots of large fish : 5)just go fishing and soak in the experience, catching fish just a plus… : Am I alone, or have others experienced this with their own fishing?? : Oh yeah, I’m the guy who started the thread about discovering "slower" : rods and increasing my enjoyment of the sport 10 fold… : Dennis Yea, I’ve reached level 5 too… But I skipped levels 2, 3, and 4. -chuck o. (not joanne b.) OST, maybe I did attain level 3 (w/o attaining level 2, of course)… depens on your definition of "large." —

Response:

: (6) Be near water dreaming of the fishes with no intention of doing : anything to them, but knowing that you could, if you wanted to..? Tim, maybe you should start an RFD for "rec.outdoors.stop-fishing" because that’s what you seem to advocate nowadays.

Nah… But I’d like to see… rec.outdoors.flyfishing.lets-put-the-fishing-back-in-flyfishing rec.outdoors.flyfishing.is_fashionable rec.outdoors.flyfishing.natural_order_is_extinct rec.outdoors.flyfishing.C&R.might_as_well_stock_the_olympic_sized_pool rec.outdoors.flyfishing.pensive rec.outdoors.flyfishing.binaries.pictures.erotica.trout.tasteless Tim Walker

Response:

: But I’d like to see… : rec.outdoors.flyfishing.binaries.pictures.erotica.trout.tasteless What would be in this group… the 4 inchers or the 10 inchers? — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

Congratulations on attaining that state.  Welcome to the group of flyfishers that see the spiritual aspect of flyfishing.  Not only see it, but practice it. I too progressed through the process. Level 5.  Jonathan Livingston Seagull wondered what level is next. JJ

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : : : (6) Be near water dreaming of the fishes with no intention of doing : : anything to them, but knowing that you could, if you wanted to..? : : Tim, maybe you should start an RFD for "rec.outdoors.stop-fishing" : because that’s what you seem to advocate nowadays. : : Nah… <blah, blah, blah : Tim Walker Tim… *yawn* oh, nevermind. -chuck o. —

Go Tim! Go!

Response:

WHAT IS IT WITH SOME OF YOU GUYS/GALS?  You were new to the sport at one time so why not give a lot of newbies a little slack?  We may be newer to it than you but we certainly do not come to it with any less honorabel intentions.  We too love the outdoors and the total experience.  We too love the idea of learning to excel at the sport.  SO, PLEASE forgive us if we take a spot on the water once in awhile.

It’s concepts like being at a "level" that make me feel like joining Tim Walker sometimes. There seems to be this "karate school" mentality about; white belt, yellow belt, black belt etc. that people need to attach to everything. It’s as if we need a constant reassurance of our self worth. The twisted thing is, fishing has traditionally been a place to get AWAY from this crap, it’s a mental state where you just exist as a part of the water. It’s inner peace. If it’s there for you, it’s there regardless of your ability. When I started FFing it was like 1967, and I used to fish in the ocean for pollock, mackerel, cod and the occasional sea raven, when is like a sea robin that inflates when out of the water, we used to call them ‘grubbies’. It was a delight for me to catch anything then. I never thought of a grubbie as being inferior to a striper, and had never heard of tarpon, bones, etc. Now I catch mostly stripers & blues, but this summer I was standing on the dock at our marina just dangling a clouser in a couple feet of water and up comes this mass of weeds – no it’s a grubbie! and arcs under the fly, returning to the piling he lived at. I was thrilled, by a ‘trash’ fish. The thing of it is, all this competitive junk we heap upon our pursuits more often than not will keep us from enjoying them fully. Don’t worry about your ‘level’, answer the question ‘Am I having fun ?’ If yes, then keep doing it ! An interesting aside, I was recently approached to run a FFing school and was kind of uneasy about it, though I didn’t know why. This string answered my question, think I’ll pass !                                                 jc

Response:

I have to confess, I’m a little surprised at the simplistic ideology being embraced in this thread.  To believe that any pursuit in life is a straight-line progression from crude to intellectually and spiritually superior is a little naive.  I have fished for 35+ years, 24 of those as a fly-fisher, and I have days when I just want to be out in the environs and every- thing else is secondary and days when catching a fish is almost a holy quest.   It depends on a lot of factors.  How long since the last time I was out?  Who am I with?  Have I ever fished this body of water before?  What kind of reputation does this water have?  Did I get a chance to tie any of those secret weapon flies I’ve been telling all my friends ‘can’t miss’?  How good am I feeling about myself this week?  It’s too complex to reduce to "I went though stage 1 in 1974, stage 2 in 1976, etc." I guess, to me, fishing is a form of play.  The child in me wants to be mature and philosophically superior.  But, it’s just a child and is too busy enjoying the pursuit to spend the time and energy analyzing its motives.  When it all comes together and I rise to that ‘higher plateau’, I enjoy the smug feeling.  And, when I’m in my neanderthal frame of reference, I enjoy that too. Just so there is no mistake– I always protect the resource to the best of my knowledge and ability.  I have removed many thousands of yards of monofilament from streams and beaches in my 35+ years. I never go into the woods that I don’t take a trash container and return with any trash I see, can reach, and can carry.  My sons were a little upset when they realized not everyone had a dad that made them pick up trash in the woods.  But, that’s just one of the rules of the game, as I play it! Tight lines and Happy times! Charley

Response:

WHAT IS IT WITH SOME OF YOU GUYS/GALS?  You were new to the sport at one time so why not give a lot of newbies a little slack?  We may be newer to it than you but we certainly do not come to it with any less honorabel intentions.  We too love the outdoors and the total experience.  We too love the idea of learning to excel at the sport.  SO, PLEASE forgive us if we take a spot on the water once in awhile.

Response:

: I’ve been flyfishing for more than a decade, and a couple of years ago I : realized I had reached the fifth level of flyfishing. The levels are: : 1) catch a fish with this hard to operate equipment : 2)catch lots of fish : 3)catch a large fish : 4)catch lots of large fish : 5)just go fishing and soak in the experience, catching fish just a plus… I’m at all these levels, I love to fish and catch fish, whether it’s tarpon in Florida or bluegill down the road, or just watching a trout feed and not wetting a line.  Why limit yourself.  I will fish for anything, anywhere, anytime and enjoy it. John

Response:

The thing of it is, all this competitive junk we heap upon our pursuits more often than not will keep us from enjoying them fully. Don’t worry about your ‘level’, answer the question ‘Am I having fun ?’ If yes, then keep doing it ! An interesting aside, I was recently approached to run a FFing school and was kind of uneasy about it, though I didn’t know why. This string answered my question, think I’ll pass !                                            jc

COME ON!    jeeze!   you guys are relentless!  The level thing was obviously (to me) a tongue in cheek post concerning the realization that that you really *are* here to be in the moment and enjoy your surroundings : 5)just go fishing and soak in the experience, catching fish just a plus…  

If you guys would stop trying to be so damned elitist, you would see that half the posts you flame are posts you would agree with if you would take the time to read them.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have to confess, I’m a little surprised at the simplistic ideology being embraced in this thread.  To believe that any pursuit in life is a straight-line progression from crude to intellectually and spiritually superior is a little naive.  I have fished for 35+ years, 24 of those as a fly-fisher, and I have days when I just want to be out in the environs and every- thing else is secondary and days when catching a fish is almost a holy quest.   I guess, to me, fishing is a form of play.  The child in me wants to be mature and philosophically superior.  But, it’s just a child and is too busy enjoying the pursuit to spend the time and energy analyzing its motives.  When it all comes together and I rise to that ‘higher plateau’, I enjoy the smug feeling.  And, when I’m in my neanderthal frame of reference, I enjoy that too.

Dear Sir, You have summed up quite elonquently what I meant by spirituality.  I don’t recall writing the word "Superior".  I must clarify that my intention was not to convey a sense of superiority.  But, wanted to convey that the whole process represents spiritual growth.  There is no elitism here…..elitism has made me puke for years. JJ

Response:

Question:

Wouldn’t you know it, OJ’s a fly fisherman too… but I don’t think he’s been fishing for over a year now. My wife’s cousin (I’m not making this up) runs the stables in Yosemite Valley, and has guided OJ and cohorts, on horseback, to The Secret Spots. Unfortunately, I’ve only met the guy once (wife’s cousin, not OJ), and I’ve yet to extract the pertinent info from him (and I don’t mean what kind of knife OJ used to gut his fish). Anyway, I don’t know of what value this info is… It’s just one of those things a guy has to share when given the right opportunity. Perhaps this thread would be more appropriate rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tabloid newsgroup… -chuck oey — Professional Publications, Inc.                       profpubl.crl.com

Response:

Let’s just hope he doesn’t release cutthroats.

Response:

If Judge Ito reads this I hope he accepts my invitation to snook fish in the 10000 islands.  Anyone with the patience he has must be a good person to fish with…

Response:

Wouldn’t you know it, OJ’s a fly fisherman too… but I don’t think he’s been fishing for over a year now. My wife’s cousin (I’m not making this up) runs the stables in Yosemite Valley, and has guided OJ and cohorts, on horseback, to The Secret Spots.

That’s a good one!  Ha!  "Secret Spots" in the Yosemite Valley.  That place is Disneyworld. If only we the people who own that park could break the stranglehold that the "vendors" have on the valley, it could be returned to the majestic place it ought to be.   Yosemite Valley, where you can rent a VCR and a movie about the park and order a pizza to go with it, (in the park) so you don’t even have to look out the window of the RV! Gotta love America.  We do it like no one else! Phil Calvin                                       ‘91 Hawkgt, DoD#242

Response:

That’s a good one!  Ha!  "Secret Spots" in the Yosemite Valley.  That place is Disneyworld. If only we the people who own that park could break the stranglehold that the "vendors" have on the valley, it could be returned to the majestic place it ought to be.  

Dream on.  The trend is toward turning all the parks over to private vendors.  "If it don’t turn a profit, it ain’t got no value." — -Wayne Trzyna

Response: