Question:

Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course.

The other night at terminal 2 Heathrow the last flights of the day were abnormally busy. The queue for the non  European passport holders was taking about 90 to 120 minutes to get through, and consisted of a mix of all nationalities. I happened to be in the immigration hall and stayed to monitor the queue. On five occasions I was approached by a person coming from an area between Canada and Mexico and the conversation went along similar lines. "Are you in charge here", "No and I’m nothing to do with the immigration service" where upon I was given a mouthful of abuse on how to run things and one person went as far a spitting on me. While these examples of how a certain nationality behaves when it travels abroad was going on I kept looking at a rather tall gentleman towards the back of the queue who seemed vaguely familiar. It wasn’t until after he had left politely wishing us a good evening that I realised it was a very well known Aussie tennis player, who now doubt had he asked would have been fast tracked but he didn’t and just waited with everyone. Seems the Aussies can behave a lot better than certain others. — Lansbury LHR(T2) www.uk-air.net

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Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course. Don’t mind JT, he’s just bitter because he has a little dick and Aussie women laugh at him.

Really ??? JT: agreed LOL DuHasse! risking a lil less endowment by the dork dictionary ROFL

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 I will definitely fly QANTAS next time…peace, quiet, kids kept under control, not staring into the balding head of the person in front whilst trying to eat lunch….definitely sounds like my sort of airline.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My husband, son, and I just got back from Australia.  We flew Los Angeles to Sydney and back on Qantas, as well as several domestic flights with them inside Australia.  I had always heard that Qantas had great service, which is why I was shocked at how poor it was.  Flight attendants were invariably rude. Service was efficient but cold and impersonal.  Twice (on two separate flights) the passengers behind complained about our reclined seats.  Each time the flight attendant came and barked an order at us to raise the seats.  They must hate children because on one of the flights an old man sitting in front turned around and yelled at my son to shut up, and on the return from Sydney to L.A. another old woman complained to the flight attendant about him and the flight attendant came over and ordered us to keep our child quiet and still (he is 9 and quiet well behaved).  On all flights they were extremely neurotic about the carryons too.  All in all it was a horrible experience.  All the more so when you consider that we’re used to flying in the U.S. where service is supposed to be so bad.  All I can say is after this experience I have a new respect U.S. airlines. Marie Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course. Quite! sounds like the usual ‘family from hell’ who cannot control children or dicipline them or keep them quiet, why the hell should we suffer because of their unruly behaviour, Good old Qantas staff,  we need a few more of them around in this day and age of unruly parents and kids. martin

Response:

Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course. Well known fact in airline circles, the reason that Qantas has a higher number of male -well built flight attendants on the Asia/London routes is to get the ozzies well inebriated on their beer before Singapore, and then they sleep the way to London without much more bother, those that do make it, are well dealt with by the *heavies* on board.

QF male FA’s are well – known in gay circles for being *very* cute.  Dating one is a "catch"…. — Best Greg gregorymorrowatmsndotcom

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I’ve long thought that now smoking is banned on almost all carriers that it is long past time that children and their unruly parents were sat at the back of the cabin.

I have been seated across the aisle from a baby and even right next to a baby on another flight (bulkkead, middle section). All were very long flights (10+ hours). And none were a real problem. In the case of the baby across the aisle, I remember it being entertaining in the morning because the baby was really cute and trying to grab passengers waiting in line to go to the bathroom. It was entertaining. Perhaps I have been lucky, and I realise that perhaps some babies are noiser than others, but I doubt that a baby would cry for 10 hours nonstop. For shorter flights though where a significant portion of the flight is the descent, I guess one could state that the baby bcried most of the way.

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five occasions I was approached by a person coming from an area between Canada and Mexico and the conversation went along similar lines. "Are you in charge here",

In all fairness to the folks between canada and mexico, there are some of them who are nice educated tourists. The problem with those is that by their nature, you do not notice them. And if you only notice the loud impolite ones, then you do get a very bad image from the tourists of that country. Seems the Aussies can behave a lot better than certain others.

I think that Kiwis would disagree with that statement, especially when they refer to Sydneysiders. Does the expression "loud and brash" ring a bell ? Every country has bad tourists. But I agree that people from certain countries expects to be treated like kings and don’t accept that folks do things differently in different parts of the world. And those tend to stand out. But when you think about it, Parisians should be thankful of McDonalds and EuroDisney. Those tourists would tend to go to McDonalds, thus enabling good restaurants in Paris to remain free of such tourists

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I’ve long thought that now smoking is banned on almost all carriers that it is long past time that children and their unruly parents were sat at the back of the cabin. I’ve never thought it alright to have someone else’s brat inflicted on adults for any amount of time, let alone a long haul flight. It’s even worse when you get one in the premium cabins from where in my opinion anyone under the age of 16 ought to be banned! For several years at check-in I’ve stated that I don’t mind where I sit as long as there are no children in the adjoining rows, I know a few people who now do the same – maybe the airlines will listen!

I find that when parents, who really have no business being parents, allow their children to run amok and laugh as the little shits pester people, change their attitude rather quickly when they hear someone say "If someone doesn’t get these little cunts under control they’re going to be short a few kids" and the kids are miraculously whisked away (they suddenly remember that they are parents and have a job to do). Maybe it’s not the politest of ways to handle such a situation, but hey, it’s not polite to inflict your kids on other people either.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My husband, son, and I just got back from Australia.  We flew Los Angeles to Sydney and back on Qantas, as well as several domestic flights with them inside Australia.  I had always heard that Qantas had great service, which is why I was shocked at how poor it was.  Flight attendants were invariably rude. Service was efficient but cold and impersonal.  Twice (on two separate flights) the passengers behind complained about our reclined seats.  Each time the flight attendant came and barked an order at us to raise the seats.  They must hate children because on one of the flights an old man sitting in front turned around and yelled at my son to shut up, and on the return from Sydney to L.A. another old woman complained to the flight attendant about him and the flight attendant came over and ordered us to keep our child quiet and still (he is 9 and quiet well behaved).  On all flights they were extremely neurotic about the carryons too.  All in all it was a horrible experience.  All the more so when you consider that we’re used to flying in the U.S. where service is supposed to be so bad.  All I can say is after this experience I have a new respect U.S. airlines. Marie Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course.

Quite! sounds like the usual ‘family from hell’ who cannot control children or dicipline them or keep them quiet, why the hell should we suffer because of their unruly behaviour, Good old Qantas staff,  we need a few more of them around in this day and age of unruly parents and kids. martin

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – seats.  They must hate children because on one of the flights an old man sitting in front turned around and yelled at my son to shut up, and on the return from Sydney to L.A. another old woman complained to the flight attendant about him and the flight attendant came over and ordered us to keep our child quiet and still (he is 9 and quiet well behaved). Quiet and well-behaved when you have had two complaints already?!!! I DON’T THINK SO MATE! You’re just a wee bit delusional there. I’ve had too many experiences with children sitting next to me that finally I’ve decided to have the ‘no thanks, no more children next to me’. All the worse experiences have been there from this little girl who wanted to go the toilet screaming her head off when we were about to land (BA Madrid-London), to a group of four children taking all the middle seats and since I was flying alone I had to be seated next to them while they played seats switching UNTIL finally this little brat (oh how  children are cursed by one rotten apple) spilled his orange juice all over me while I was fucking sleeping (BA/QA codeshare Sydney-London) . Nah in this regard, keep your fucking children well-behaved. Especially in long flights. And rest assured I won’t be taking any of my children on any long flights until they reach their teen years. Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course. LOL

I’ve long thought that now smoking is banned on almost all carriers that it is long past time that children and their unruly parents were sat at the back of the cabin. I’ve never thought it alright to have someone else’s brat inflicted on adults for any amount of time, let alone a long haul flight. It’s even worse when you get one in the premium cabins from where in my opinion anyone under the age of 16 ought to be banned! For several years at check-in I’ve stated that I don’t mind where I sit as long as there are no children in the adjoining rows, I know a few people who now do the same – maybe the airlines will listen! Pete.

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on an Aussie woman

I think you mean "in". The answer is probably … average… for an Australian.  ;) D.

Response:

Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course.

Well known fact in airline circles, the reason that Qantas has a higher number of male -well built flight attendants on the Asia/London routes is to get the ozzies well inebriated on their beer before Singapore, and then they sleep the way to London without much more bother, those that do make it, are well dealt with by the *heavies* on board. martin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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says… I must admit that I have done the trip from the UK a few times and the Quantas service was not the best.We normally fly Singapore.

(Craig Welch impression on) Pity.  You may want to try Qantas instead. (Craig Welch impression off)

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Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course. Don’t mind JT, he’s just bitter because he has a little dick and Aussie women laugh at him. So how big is the average dick on an Aussie woman?

Youre gay!

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Don’t mind JT, he’s just bitter because he has a little dick and Aussie women laugh at him. So how big is the average dick on an Aussie woman?

Our women aren’t like the women you’re used to, they don’t have dicks, and we like it that way!

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Quite! sounds like the usual ‘family from hell’ who cannot control children or dicipline them or keep them quiet, why the hell should we suffer because of their unruly behaviour, Good old Qantas staff,  we need a few more of them around in this day and age of unruly parents and kids. martin

It sounds like a Troll to me, and not a very good one. Herdy.

Response:

Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course. Don’t mind JT, he’s just bitter because he has a little dick and Aussie women laugh at him.

So how big is the average dick on an Aussie woman?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My husband, son, and I just got back from Australia.  We flew Los Angeles to Sydney and back on Qantas, as well as several domestic flights with them inside Australia.  I had always heard that Qantas had great service, which is why I was shocked at how poor it was.  Flight attendants were invariably rude. Service was efficient but cold and impersonal.  Twice (on two separate flights) the passengers behind complained about our reclined seats.  Each time the flight attendant came and barked an order at us to raise the seats.  They must hate children because on one of the flights an old man sitting in front turned around and yelled at my son to shut up, and on the return from Sydney to L.A. another old woman complained to the flight attendant about him and the flight attendant came over and ordered us to keep our child quiet and still (he is 9 and quiet well behaved).  On all flights they were extremely neurotic about the carryons too.  All in all it was a horrible experience.  All the more so when you consider that we’re used to flying in the U.S. where service is supposed to be so bad.  All I can say is after this experience I have a new respect U.S. airlines. Marie Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course.

Reminds me of the words of Charles Luckman: "The trouble with America is that there are far too many wide open spaces surrounded by teeth."

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Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course. Don’t mind JT, he’s just bitter because he has a little dick and Aussie women laugh at him.

One of the main reasons I moved from the UK to Adelaide,South Australia was due to the people and their attitude. I suppose the lousy weather and cost of living does make a lot of Brits miserable – but there are many good un’s. I have never felt so welcome as when in Australia , people are so welcoming and helpful ( just started fishing and I have had loads of offers to teach me ). Perhaps the people who complain about Aussies and Brits should mix with them a little more. I must admit that I have done the trip from the UK a few times and the Quantas service was not the best.We normally fly Singapore. Russell — — auSEElife Run by migrants -for migrants Lot 11 Penneys Rise,Onkaparinga Hills,SA 5163 ICQ 119580733, Yahoo Messenger:russ1926,Fax +61 8 8186 1538

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seem ur kids must be a right snob maybe ..view it from the other viewpoint of pax .. most kids can be quiet and stuff but maybe ur wasnt? look outside the circle… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What do you expect when you take kids on a plane.  Most people want to have a QUIET relaxing flight. Not have screaming bloody kids jumping up and down infront of them. You people with kids should for once in your lives consider that a lot of people dont actually like kids and find them rather annoying. You must have just picked the two worst lots of flights then cos I can tell you Qantas is on of Aus’s best airlines. My husband, son, and I just got back from Australia.  We flew Los Angeles to Sydney and back on Qantas, as well as several domestic flights with them inside Australia.  I had always heard that Q

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seats.  They must hate children because on one of the flights an old man sitting in front turned around and yelled at my son to shut up, and on the return from Sydney to L.A. another old woman complained to the flight attendant about him and the flight attendant came over and ordered us to keep our child quiet and still (he is 9 and quiet well behaved).

Quiet and well-behaved when you have had two complaints already?!!! I DON’T THINK SO MATE! You’re just a wee bit delusional there. I’ve had too many experiences with children sitting next to me that finally I’ve decided to have the ‘no thanks, no more children next to me’. All the worse experiences have been there from this little girl who wanted to go the toilet screaming her head off when we were about to land (BA Madrid-London), to a group of four children taking all the middle seats and since I was flying alone I had to be seated next to them while they played seats switching UNTIL finally this little brat (oh how  children are cursed by one rotten apple) spilled his orange juice all over me while I was fucking sleeping (BA/QA codeshare Sydney-London) . Nah in this regard, keep your fucking children well-behaved. Especially in long flights. And rest assured I won’t be taking any of my children on any long flights until they reach their teen years. Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course.

LOL

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Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course.

Don’t mind JT, he’s just bitter because he has a little dick and Aussie women laugh at him.

Response:

What do you expect when you take kids on a plane.  Most people want to have a QUIET relaxing flight. Not have screaming bloody kids jumping up and down infront of them. You people with kids should for once in your lives consider that a lot of people dont actually like kids and find them rather annoying. You must have just picked the two worst lots of flights then cos I can tell you Qantas is on of Aus’s best airlines. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My husband, son, and I just got back from Australia.  We flew Los Angeles to Sydney and back on Qantas, as well as several domestic flights with them inside Australia.  I had always heard that Qantas had great service, which is why I was shocked at how poor it was.  Flight attendants were invariably rude. Service was efficient but cold and impersonal.  Twice (on two separate flights) the passengers behind complained about our reclined seats.  Each time the flight attendant came and barked an order at us to raise the seats.  They must hate children because on one of the flights an old man sitting in front turned around and yelled at my son to shut up, and on the return from Sydney to L.A. another old woman complained to the flight attendant about him and the flight attendant came over and ordered us to keep our child quiet and still (he is 9 and quiet well behaved).  On all flights they were extremely neurotic about the carryons too.  All in all it was a horrible experience.  All the more so when you consider that we’re used to flying in the U.S. where service is supposed to be so bad.  All I can say is after this experience I have a new respect U.S. airlines. Marie Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course.

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Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course.

Well, well … the gospel according to something that calls itself

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My husband, son, and I just got back from Australia.  We flew Los Angeles to Sydney and back on Qantas, as well as several domestic flights with them inside Australia.  I had always heard that Qantas had great service, which is why I was shocked at how poor it was.  Flight attendants were invariably rude. Service was efficient but cold and impersonal.  Twice (on two separate flights) the passengers behind complained about our reclined seats.  Each time the flight attendant came and barked an order at us to raise the seats.  They must hate children because on one of the flights an old man sitting in front turned around and yelled at my son to shut up, and on the return from Sydney to L.A. another old woman complained to the flight attendant about him and the flight attendant came over and ordered us to keep our child quiet and still (he is 9 and quiet well behaved).  On all flights they were extremely neurotic about the carryons too.  All in all it was a horrible experience.  All the more so when you consider that we’re used to flying in the U.S. where service is supposed to be so bad.  All I can say is after this experience I have a new respect U.S. airlines. Marie

Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My husband, son, and I just got back from Australia.  We flew Los Angeles to Sydney and back on Qantas, as well as several domestic flights with them inside Australia.  I had always heard that Qantas had great service, which is why I was shocked at how poor it was.  Flight attendants were invariably rude. Service was efficient but cold and impersonal.  Twice (on two separate flights) the passengers behind complained about our reclined seats.  Each time the flight attendant came and barked an order at us to raise the seats.  They must hate children because on one of the flights an old man sitting in front turned around and yelled at my son to shut up, and on the return from Sydney to L.A. another old woman complained to the flight attendant about him and the flight attendant came over and ordered us to keep our child quiet and still (he is 9 and quiet well behaved).  On all flights they were extremely neurotic about the carryons too.  All in all it was a horrible experience.  All the more so when you consider that we’re used to flying in the U.S. where service is supposed to be so bad.  All I can say is after this experience I have a new respect U.S. airlines. Marie Sounds like you met the australians…the nastiest people on the face of the earth.  After the brits of course.

Know all the Brits then do you? well Thanks for tarring us all with the same – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Question:

Skittering is a fantastic technique for catching trout, especially when the caddis are active but it is still deadly during mayfly activity. I learned about it in an old book that had a chapter on the 1920’s Bryson City (Hazel Creek) fishing legend, Mark Cathey. He could subtly vibrate his hand and the energy would transfer to rod/line/fly. The end result being the fly "dancing" on the water. I believe it is so effective because the fly becomes alive, it’s not just another piece of inanimate detritus floating by. It is also very effective with a pupae dropper…. because it also becomes alive. If truth be told, I’ve caught way more trout "skitterin" than dead drifting.

One of the hardest situations, for me, is when the fish want just a bit of vibration or a twitch. It is easy to give a fly significant movement but I find it hard to give just that little shift in position that can indicate life to the fish and bring them to the fly. There are many situations, I feel, where this tiniest amount of movement will trigger a strike, while significant movement or drag will put down the fish. The movement, on slow water, is merely a twitch that makes the fly quiver. This quiver is tough to do but it is one of things I try on tough fish. If you get it right, you frequently get the fish.  Do it wrong and the fish is down. Willi

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The very first trout that I caught, was taken on a dragging elk hair caddis…. I’ve mentioned this before, but it’s a good time to repeat.  I have often fished with a partner.  We move up the stream together, taking turns fishing.  It’s a good method for critiquing one anther’s technique, in addition to providing company astream.  Very often, while my partner was fishing, I would simply let my fly hang in the current downstream.  This has, over the years, resulted in hundreds of hookups in what would otherwise have been dead time.  This method worked particularly well with elk hair caddis and pass lakes, but many other patterns have also been successful.  Streamers and wet flies, of course, are obvious choices.

If you analyze this and do it in a more purposeful manner, you’d hook even more. Willi

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The technique is a very active one that thoroughly covers alot of area in a short time. I generally hit each spot with a series of short, dead drift casts. As each cast begins to swing, I raise my rod tip and swing the flies through all likely lies below me with the dry skittering along the top and the wet dragging just under or at the surface. My next coverage will be a cast directly across stream. I immediately raise my rod tip and drag the flies back across the current. My last coverage of an area is a series a upstream casts where I drag the flies back toward me moving downstream at a pretty rapid rate. If no fish were stirred, I move up stream and cover the next section of the stream. Could you clarify this, Willi? Do you first fish the spot thoroughly with dead drifts, and only then try the skittering and dragging?

That’s interesting as there’s a section of the West Branch of the upper Credit that is composed of cascades and pocket water that has never produced much for me on wets.  I’ve never fished it in the manner you described as I’ve always attempted to dead drift all my presentations, dry or wet.  Most of the time, I’ve use heavily dressed dries such as Henryville Specials and only broke out the wets when I’m on the verge of a skunking.  I’ll have to try your more aggressive approach this coming season. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Could you clarify this, Willi? Do you first fish the spot thoroughly with dead drifts, and only then try the skittering and dragging?

I usually start out that way because dead drifting has been so ingrained for me. However, once I bring up a fish using a skittering fly, I tend to use the dead drift only for those fish that rose and didn’t take or missed the fly that was given action. I came across this technique through a fortunate accident. Some years ago, I was fishing some pocket water and wasn’t have much luck. As I remember, I was fishing a sizable nymph and decided to change flies. As I began dragging in the fly, it skimmed along the surface and was taken by a nice fish. I figured the fish wanted a dry and fished one in a traditional no drag manner with no results. Then it dawned on me to add some action. Although I’ll frequently twitch caddis dries, the action I give the flies when fishing this technique is much greater. On many of the casts, there is no drag free part of the drift. The fly is dragged across the current and skipped through small pockets and hopped upstream. Not all insects float in a sedate manner like a Mayfly. Many Caddis hop across the surface laying eggs. Stoneflies will "swim" across the surface leaving a wake. Craneflies are very active on the surface. I sometimes try to imitate these but mainly I try to give the fish a vision of something alive and eatable. I have a sense of when this technique will be effective but I’m not aware of all the variables. It is a very aggressive technique that works in summer on hot sunny days. I believe that the pocket water and rapids where I use this technique, although they are often excellent feeding areas for trout, become even more desirable when water temps start rising. The heavily aerated water makes the fish comfortable enough to feed even during the heat of the day. Good fish will move into these shallow aerated areas at these times. I use it most during the hottest part of the summer and usually in the middle of the day but will use it at other times. I use it when I have a sense that the fish are "sulking" or resting, or reluctant to feed. Willi

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter,    Would you please describe in more detail the rods you use for this type of fishing? Best regards, Reed http://www.overmywaders.com/ Reed Virtually any trout rod can be used to swing wets but the best rods are slow action ones that are 9′ or greater in length.  The slow action and the length provide greater line control and better roll casting.  With wet fly fishing, you try to avoid false casting and throwing fast, tight loops as you do not want to dry out the fly. Long, slow rods tend to cast gently with big, open loops.  They’ll also usually spey cast well.  Late last season, I bought a 10′ 6" East Branch 4 wt. for swing wets and the line control it afforded me was excellent.  BTW, it’s also best to use a double taper line for the same line control reasons.  I also use an old, very slow 10′ 6" Lamiglass 8/9 wt. for swinging wets to salmon and steelhead. HTH

Peter, If at all possible, can you bring a two-handed or spey rod to the PA clave with you? Yesterday, I was involved in a situation where I couldn’t get my line across the river to a mighty large fish stationed against a cliff wall. I finally realized that short of a boat, the only way I could present a fly due to the trees behind me was with a big ole roll cast of some type. Unfortunately, I can’t roll cast a 4wt 70-80 feet. Than it dawned on me that a spey might be the answer. Anyway, I’ll trade ya some devlish bow&arrow techniques for a basic spey/2-hand lesson at the PA clave<g Yesterday, I enjoyed swingin wets to some cooperative ‘bows. Jeff and I probably caught about 20-30 each…. finally, a day astream in the frozen mountains. We’re headed back out this am once he shows up… Walt

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The very first trout that I caught, was taken on a dragging elk hair caddis….

I’ve mentioned this before, but it’s a good time to repeat.  I have often fished with a partner.  We move up the stream together, taking turns fishing.  It’s a good method for critiquing one anther’s technique, in addition to providing company astream.  Very often, while my partner was fishing, I would simply let my fly hang in the current downstream.  This has, over the years, resulted in hundreds of hookups in what would otherwise have been dead time.  This method worked particularly well with elk hair caddis and pass lakes, but many other patterns have also been successful.  Streamers and wet flies, of course, are obvious choices. Wolfgang

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I’ve mentioned this before, but it’s a good time to repeat.  …… Very often, while my partner was fishing, I would simply let my fly hang in the current downstream.  This has, over the years, resulted in hundreds of hookups in what would otherwise have been dead time.  This method worked particularly well with elk hair caddis and pass lakes, but many other patterns have also been successful.  Streamers and wet flies, of course, are obvious

choices. I’ve mentioned this before as well, but I caught a decent little brown trailing a royal wulff downstream while untangling my line at the reel. Felt lucky, but didn’t feel smart. Joe F.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Skittering is a fantastic technique for catching trout, especially when the caddis are active but it is still deadly during mayfly activity. I learned about it in an old book that had a chapter on the 1920’s Bryson City (Hazel Creek) fishing legend, Mark Cathey. He could subtly vibrate his hand and the energy would transfer to rod/line/fly. The end result being the fly "dancing" on the water. I believe it is so effective because the fly becomes alive, it’s not just another piece of inanimate detritus floating by. It is also very effective with a pupae dropper…. because it also becomes alive. If truth be told, I’ve caught way more trout "skitterin" than dead drifting. and Steve… that was a fine trout you caught on boone’s that monday afternoon… a nice wild brown. Steve Z., now known as USCG "icebreaker" Zimmerman, caught some fish nymphing today on the Watauga. I caught a bunch of ice and one trout using a yella wooly buggah. –Walt

The very first trout that I caught, was taken on a dragging elk hair caddis.  If there’s a good breeze blowing downstream, I’ll let a mayfly pattern blow in the breeze above a rising fish. Drives ‘em nuts and I’ve had small bows leap out to take it. About the USCG Zimmerman.  Can he be loaned out for some northern ice breaking? Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could you clarify this, Willi? Do you first fish the spot thoroughly with dead drifts, and only then try the skittering and dragging? I usually start out that way because dead drifting has been so ingrained for me. However, once I bring up a fish using a skittering fly, I tend to use the dead drift only for those fish that rose and didn’t take or missed the fly that was given action. I’m gonna have to try this more often. Skittering a dry fly worked pretty well in North Carolina last spring, and was recommended to me by Walt Winter. It makes me think of all those time I’ve picked up my dry fly for a cast and pulled it away from a fish. —

Skittering is a fantastic technique for catching trout, especially when the caddis are active but it is still deadly during mayfly activity. I learned about it in an old book that had a chapter on the 1920’s Bryson City (Hazel Creek) fishing legend, Mark Cathey. He could subtly vibrate his hand and the energy would transfer to rod/line/fly. The end result being the fly "dancing" on the water. I believe it is so effective because the fly becomes alive, it’s not just another piece of inanimate detritus floating by. It is also very effective with a pupae dropper…. because it also becomes alive. If truth be told, I’ve caught way more trout "skitterin" than dead drifting. and Steve… that was a fine trout you caught on boone’s that monday afternoon… a nice wild brown. Steve Z., now known as USCG "icebreaker" Zimmerman, caught some fish nymphing today on the Watauga. I caught a bunch of ice and one trout using a yella wooly buggah. –Walt

Response:

If at all possible, can you bring a two-handed or spey rod to the PA clave with you? Yesterday, I was involved in a situation where I couldn’t get my line across the river to a mighty large fish stationed against a cliff wall. I finally realized that short of a boat, the only way I could present a fly due to the trees behind me was with a big ole roll cast of some type. Unfortunately, I can’t roll cast a 4wt 70-80 feet. Than it dawned on me that a spey might be the answer. Anyway, I’ll trade ya some devlish bow&arrow techniques for a basic spey/2-hand lesson at the PA clave<g Yesterday, I enjoyed swingin wets to some cooperative ‘bows. Jeff and I probably caught about 20-30 each…. finally, a day astream in the frozen mountains. We’re headed back out this am once he shows up… Walt

Sounds like you had an awesome day – that many fish during the winter takes some doing.  Magic fly" Sure, I can bring my 8/9 Lamiglass with me.  Though only a 10′ 6" rod, it has a classic spey action and will spey cast the distance you need. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Peter,     Thank you. That agrees with my experience. I use a 10′  Chubb 6wt. for much of my wetfly fishing, for all the reasons that you describe. Best regards, Reed http://www.overmywaders.com/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Virtually any trout rod can be used to swing wets but the best rods are slow action ones that are 9′ or greater in length.  The slow action and the length provide greater line control and better roll casting.  With wet fly fishing, you try to avoid false casting and throwing fast, tight loops as you do not want to dry out the fly. Long, slow rods tend to cast gently with big, open loops.  They’ll also usually spey cast well.  Late last season, I bought a 10′ 6" East Branch 4 wt. for swing wets and the line control it afforded me was excellent.  BTW, it’s also best to use a double taper line for the same line control reasons.  I also use an old, very slow 10′ 6" Lamiglass 8/9 wt. for swinging wets to salmon and steelhead. HTH Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

–

Response:

Could you clarify this, Willi? Do you first fish the spot thoroughly with dead drifts, and only then try the skittering and dragging? I usually start out that way because dead drifting has been so ingrained for me. However, once I bring up a fish using a skittering fly, I tend to use the dead drift only for those fish that rose and didn’t take or missed the fly that was given action.

I’m gonna have to try this more often. Skittering a dry fly worked pretty well in North Carolina last spring, and was recommended to me by Walt Winter. It makes me think of all those time I’ve picked up my dry fly for a cast and pulled it away from a fish. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

You’d be downgrading that "calibre" part if you ever see me nymph. When dredging, I need all the help I can get.

Oh, if i live long enough I’m sure I will see it, because I’d like to fish with you at least once. And I’m sure you are exaggerating your difficulties. — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas

Response:

Peter,     Would you please describe in more detail the rods you use for this type of fishing? Best regards, Reed http://www.overmywaders.com/ It’s quite true that the tippet size isn’t a big deal on the swing as the fish tend to charge the fly.  However, on the dead drift part of the cast, the fish do get a good look at it.  In clear water fishing to "educated" trout, I downsize my tippet.  With the long, slow rods I use, the odds of a break-off are reduced. Peter

–

Response:

Peter,    Would you please describe in more detail the rods you use for this type of fishing? Best regards, Reed http://www.overmywaders.com/

Reed Virtually any trout rod can be used to swing wets but the best rods are slow action ones that are 9′ or greater in length.  The slow action and the length provide greater line control and better roll casting.  With wet fly fishing, you try to avoid false casting and throwing fast, tight loops as you do not want to dry out the fly. Long, slow rods tend to cast gently with big, open loops.  They’ll also usually spey cast well.  Late last season, I bought a 10′ 6" East Branch 4 wt. for swing wets and the line control it afforded me was excellent.  BTW, it’s also best to use a double taper line for the same line control reasons.  I also use an old, very slow 10′ 6" Lamiglass 8/9 wt. for swinging wets to salmon and steelhead. HTH Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Willi suggested we get a thread going on wet fly techniques as it’s an under appreciated approach and one that can produce when other methods fail. Wet fly fishing essentially mimics the emerger stage and normally the flies are fished quite shallow.  Many of us resort to emerger nymphs when we see typical emerger riseforms however, wets were traditionally used years ago under the same conditions and there is no reason why they won’t be effective today. Wet flys come in two basic categories, winged wets such as the Lead Wing Coachman and soft hackle wets typified by the Partridge & Orange. Wet flies can be fished in a variety of ways: dead drifted or swung, as a dry with floatant, in the surface film, just under the surface, or deep like a nymph.  The presentation seeks to mimic a number of insect behaviours; emerging insect migration to the surface or shoreline, female egg laying dives, swimming nymphs, drowned spinners, emerger struggling through the surface tension, and the actual emergence of adult from the pupal/nymphal shuck. Considering this range of behaviours, any motion imparted to the fly should be at slow speed in keeping with the behaviour of the insect. The normal down and across swing first presents the fly with a dead drift, followed by an acceleration during the swing to a stop at the end of the swing.  The angle of the the cast with respect to the current should be dependent on current speed.  In a slow moving flat, the cast should be made at about 90 degrees to the current.  In fast water, the angle should be as little as 30 degrees.  By modifying the angle of the presentation, we can keep the speed of the fly within realistic proportions despite fast or slow current conditions.  In very slow current conditions, a downstream mend can be made to pull the fly along and prevent it from sinking to the bottom.  In still water, use a very slow , hesitating retrieve. In typical moderate currents, I favour an upstream cast at about 45 degrees followed by a highstick dead drift, followed in turn by the normal swing and ended with a Leisering lift.  Strikes can occur at any point and can be particularly difficult to detect in the upstream dead drift section.  If you think you are missing strikes, place a very small indicator a few feet above the fly. Good mending contributes to getting the fly down, keeping a straight line to enhance strike detection and prolonging the dead drift portion.  After the initial upstream cast, I make a series of small mends to prevent a belly from forming.  I’m also raising the rod tip to take up the slack line that accumulates as the fly approaches.  As the fly drifts by me, I prolong the dead drift by dropping the rod tip and continuing to mend.  Once the the line is fully extended and the rod tip is low, I allow the fly to swing in the current, continuing to mend ot keep the line straight.  Once I’ve completed the lift at the end of the drift, I make an upstream lob cast to start the next drift. I try to avoid false-casting as I want the fly to remain wet so it will sink immediately.  False casting will dry it out.  I will false cast though if I’m using a wet to simulate a drowned spinner. Normally I use a long, slow four to six weight rod, a double taper floating line for good mending, long 10′ to 14′ leaders, fine tippet 5X and smaller, and no splitshot.  If I want the wet to sink deep, I use fluorocarbon tippet and a series of upstream mends to get it down. Wets can be employed as a searching pattern or fished to specific fish holding target zones.  During the swing phase, if the fly is deep and passing a good "fishy" spot, gently lift the rod tip so that the fly will swing up like and emerging insect.  If there’s a fish holding there, this behaviour will likely provoke a strike. Wets are a gentle, peaceful, traditional way of fishing and I often resort to it whenever I’m just out fishing to relax.  It lacks the activity of streamer retrieves, the concentration of dries and the indicator watching of nymphing.  Most strikes on the swing are felt rather than seen so intense watching isn’t needed as much.  Tradironal wets, IMHO are the most attractive of trout flys and I enjoy tying them more than any other kind.  If you haven’t tried wet flies before, tie up a bunch and get swinging. Peter

Response:

Willi suggested we get a thread going on wet fly techniques as it’s an under appreciated approach and one that can produce when other methods fail. (good info. snipped Peter

Peter, I will be heading up to the trout streams in the next few days and nymphing or wets will be the rule. Typically, on small streams I resist soft hackle flys because they just don’t get down without weight in the short drifts.  I use an AirFlo leader system. In using soft hackle and streamers should I go to a slow sink or hover leader? — Wayne To Fish is Human….To Release Divine!

Response:

<interesting stuff on wet flies snipped Agree entirely with your thoughts on wet fly fishing.  It’s still used extensively for brownies around where I live in Scotland, on both rivers and on lochs. I find wets tied in the spider style satisfying in their simplicity and aesthetic appeal (i.e. I can tie them) and very effective. One of the things I like is that you can fish the same rig  - I usually only use a single fly  or at most two – upstream or down as the situation demands and you can also cast to rising fish as though you were fishing dries. traprain

Response:

Peter, I will be heading up to the trout streams in the next few days and nymphing or wets will be the rule. Typically, on small streams I resist soft hackle flys because they just don’t get down without weight in the short drifts.  I use an AirFlo leader system. In using soft hackle and streamers should I go to a slow sink or hover leader? — Wayne To Fish is Human….To Release Divine!

As I fish soft hackles as a drowned spinner or emerger, I don’t worry about getting it down too deep.  Most of my stikes have come within the top six inches of the water column.  Soft hackles tied on a traditionalheavy wire wet fly hook like a Mustad 3906 or 3906B will have a pretty good sink rate.  I’ve seen factory wets tied on light wire hooks and these won’t get down much.  I actually prefer to have both with me so I can fish shallow or deep. As far as the Airflo leaders go, a clear intermediate would be my choice.   Peter

Response:

Wet fly fishing essentially mimics the emerger stage and normally the flies are fished quite shallow.

Good wet fly fishing synopsis deleted. As I’ve become more and more disgruntled with using weight, I’ve found myself fishing wet flies, usually soft hackles, more often. My favorite technique, mainly because it is so fun, is one I use in pocket water or rapids. I generally use a cast of two flies.  Sometimes I use two wets, but more often I use a fairly large, bushy dry caddis with a smaller, soft hackle on a dropper of about two feet. I tend to use this technique in the heat of the day or during other times when there’s little surface activity. The technique is a very active one that thoroughly covers alot of area in a short time. I generally hit each spot with a series of short, dead drift casts. As each cast begins to swing, I raise my rod tip and swing the flies through all likely lies below me with the dry skittering along the top and the wet dragging just under or at the surface. My next coverage will be a cast directly across stream. I immediately raise my rod tip and drag the flies back across the current. My last coverage of an area is a series a upstream casts where I drag the flies back toward me moving downstream at a pretty rapid rate. If no fish were stirred, I move up stream and cover the next section of the stream. This technique results in many missed strikes because of the moving fly. It will also results in many bulges, refusals, flashes etc. For every fish hooked, there will be about half a dozen fish that will move toward the flies and show you their lies. On these fish, I general cover the area surrounding the place where the fish showed with a series of dead drifts.  About half the time, I’ll hook the fish. Most of them will take the wet. The ability of this technique to bring fish up to the surface during periods of no surface activity and the viciousness of the strikes, makes this technique alot of fun. On my home water, there is a sizable Brown that sits in some shallow pocket water. I’ve moved it a number of times with this technique and hooked once but never landed it. I’ve been unable to interest this fish in any "normally" presented fly. Maybe next year. Willi

Response:

Wets are a gentle, peaceful, traditional way of fishing and I often resort to it whenever I’m just out fishing to relax.  [snip] Most

strikes on the swing are felt rather than seen so intense watching isn’t needed as much.  Tradironal wets, IMHO are the most attractive of trout flys and I enjoy tying them more than any other kind.  If you haven’t tried wet flies before, tie up a bunch and get swinging.

I had never even considered fishing a wet fly until I met up with Joel Axelrad in Wisconsin a couple of years ago, I caught a couple of fish but Joel was killing them in almost every pool fishing a traditional wet fly. I used his technique a later on the Manistee during a bright June day where nothing was hatching and caught brookie after brookie. Since then whenever nothing is happening I go to a wet before I go to a nymph. I fish straight accross regardless of the current, mend at least once after the cast and high stick on down and around, almost all of the strikes I have detected have been on the upstream drift. It lacks [snip] the indicator watching of nymphing

Why would a fisherman of your caliber even think of using a bobber on a nymph, the Juan with a size 28 fly maybe, but Ontario? <g — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas

Response:

The technique is a very active one that thoroughly covers alot of area in a short time. I generally hit each spot with a series of short, dead drift casts. As each cast begins to swing, I raise my rod tip and swing the flies through all likely lies below me with the dry skittering along the top and the wet dragging just under or at the surface. My next coverage will be a cast directly across stream. I immediately raise my rod tip and drag the flies back across the current. My last coverage of an area is a series a upstream casts where I drag the flies back toward me moving downstream at a pretty rapid rate. If no fish were stirred, I move up stream and cover the next section of the stream.

Could you clarify this, Willi? Do you first fish the spot thoroughly with dead drifts, and only then try the skittering and dragging? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

0] : Willi suggested we get a thread going on wet fly techniques as it’s an : under appreciated approach and one that can produce when other methods : fail. …. : Normally I use a long, slow four to six weight rod, a double taper : floating line for good mending, long 10′ to 14′ leaders, fine tippet : 5X and smaller, and no splitshot.  If I want the wet to sink deep, I : use fluorocarbon tippet and a series of upstream mends to get it down. …. : Peter Peter, nice esssay, covers the water well. A couple of comments — I find that even with fairly fussy spring creek trout I can go fairly heavy on tippet–4x, even 3x–and still catch lots of fish with soft hackles on the swing. With this I usually tie the fly into a loop so that the stiffer tippet doesn’t affect its action as much. This lack of tippet shyness is not my original observation. Sylvester Nemes remarks on it in his series of books on soft hackles. Also if I want to get down with a wet fly, I prefer to go to a sink tip rather than put weight on the tippet, and of course use the upstream mends. Nice to be talking about fishing here rather than politics and other distractions. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories  (remove x’s from email if not      Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971   a spammer) Phone: (650)-857-5491              

Response:

[snip] Why would a fisherman of your caliber even think of using a bobber on a nymph, the Juan with a size 28 fly maybe, but Ontario? <g — Wayne Knight

You’d be downgrading that "calibre" part if you ever see me nymph. When dredging, I need all the help I can get. Peter

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Peter Peter, nice esssay, covers the water well. A couple of comments — I find that even with fairly fussy spring creek trout I can go fairly heavy on tippet–4x, even 3x–and still catch lots of fish with soft hackles on the swing. With this I usually tie the fly into a loop so that the stiffer tippet doesn’t affect its action as much. This lack of tippet shyness is not my original observation. Sylvester Nemes remarks on it in his series of books on soft hackles. Also if I want to get down with a wet fly, I prefer to go to a sink tip rather than put weight on the tippet, and of course use the upstream mends. Nice to be talking about fishing here rather than politics and other distractions. Mike

It’s quite true that the tippet size isn’t a big deal on the swing as the fish tend to charge the fly.  However, on the dead drift part of the cast, the fish do get a good look at it.  In clear water fishing to "educated" trout, I downsize my tippet.  With the long, slow rods I use, the odds of a break-off are reduced. Peter

Response:

Question:

It’s not broken. It must be flaky because it worked for half of them. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I should have been working on my spelling I was tying leaders We know, Paul. Your "c" key is broken. Happens to everyone eventually. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

rw,    I hate moss on my leader also, that is one of the reasons I use a Leader Link instead of a loop to attach the leader to the line.  The Blood Knot Machine ties tight knots and the ends can be clipped very close which eliminates most moss catching.  The moss that does cling comes off each time you cast. Ernie "rw" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t like hand-tied leader with lots of knots. The knots snag on weeds and other debris. Sorry, Ernie.

Response:

When I should have been working on my spelling I was tying leaders

We know, Paul. Your "c" key is broken. Happens to everyone eventually. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

I don’t like hand-tied leader with lots of knots. The knots snag on weeds and other debris. Sorry, Ernie. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

I tie all my own leaders and the only advice I can give you is pratice, pratice, pratice.

LOL! You go, Paul ;^) /daytripper (I blame myself for never making you spell things correctly…)

Response:

When I should have been working on my spelling I was tying leaders

I tie all my own leaders and the only advice I can give you is pratice, pratice, pratice. LOL! You go, Paul ;^) /daytripper (I blame myself for never making you spell things

correctly…)

Response:

B. Watkins See http://home.earthlink.net/~eharrison241 click on Leader Logic Ernie

Ernie How do you pull the bloodknots tight?  I always seem to end up overheating and pinching the leader no matter how much lube (spit) or how gently I pull.  Must be doing something wrong. Peter

Response:

I tie all my own leaders and the only advice I can give you is pratice, pratice, pratice. I tie them by hand (ie. no tools other than nippers to trim the tags) and I allow 2" of line for the knot and tag and I end up +/- 1/4" for segment length. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I constructed a hand-made leader, following the guidelines in the Orvis Fly-Fishing Book.  I tied the knots as instructed.  It was quite clunky. Do many of you out there construct your own leaders?  Any tips for a smoother hand-constructed leader and tippet would be appreciated.

Response:

What do you mean by clunky?  Did you try to fish with it?  What knots do they use in that book and how many turns? I constructed a hand-made leader, following the guidelines in the Orvis Fly-Fishing Book.  I tied the knots as instructed.  It was quite clunky. Do many of you out there construct your own leaders?  Any tips for a smoother hand-constructed leader and tippet would be appreciated.

Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

I constructed a hand-made leader, following the guidelines in the Orvis Fly-Fishing Book.  I tied the knots as instructed.  It was quite clunky. Do many of you out there construct your own leaders?  Any tips for a smoother hand-constructed leader and tippet would be appreciated.

Response:

B. Watkins See http://home.earthlink.net/~eharrison241 click on Leader Logic Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I constructed a hand-made leader, following the guidelines in the Orvis Fly-Fishing Book.  I tied the knots as instructed.  It was quite clunky. Do many of you out there construct your own leaders?  Any tips for a smoother hand-constructed leader and tippet would be appreciated.

Response:

Question:

Hi, folks.  I’ll be in the Atlantic Beach area in North Carolina in mid-April, with my fly rod and my surf rod.  I don’t get to the beach often, so I’d appreciate any advice on what’s out there and how to catch it, from shore or pier.    Much obliged.    paul

Response:

Hi, folks.  I’ll be in the Atlantic Beach area in North Carolina in mid-April, with my fly rod and my surf rod.  I don’t get to the beach often, so I’d appreciate any advice on what’s out there and how to catch it, from shore or pier.   Much obliged.   paul

        i have gone to atlantic many times, and caught nice blues and pompano in close with spinning gear.  however, that has been in the late summer and early fall.  if you want to try a pier, go to the iron city pier in the pine knolls shore area of the island. wayno

Response:

Hi, folks. I’ll be in the Atlantic Beach area in North Carolina in mid-April, with my fly rod and my surf rod. I don’t get to the beach often, so I’d appreciate any advice on what’s out there and how to catch it, from shore or pier. Much obliged. paul

Still a little early for much to be happening.  Sometimes you can catch a school of False Albacore at the end od the pier but this is "iffy". Most piers are officially closed but still allow you to fish for free, just not opening their pier houses.  Check the inlets for possible striper action. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Paul, If you have access to some kind of small boat like a skiff, a kayak or even a canoe you can have a great time.  If you can get back into any of the creeks along either side of the ICW you may indeed find some redfish and/or specks.  Good flies include chat/white clousers and if the water is murky the Copperhead works wonders.  I will not be in the Atlantic Beach area myself during that time frame but any help I can send your way via email I will be happy to assist.  Check at Pete’s Tackle Shop on Arendell Street in Morehead City for more info. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, folks.  I’ll be in the Atlantic Beach area in North Carolina in mid-April, with my fly rod and my surf rod.  I don’t get to the beach often, so I’d appreciate any advice on what’s out there and how to catch it, from shore or pier.    Much obliged.    paul

Response:

You mean the Iron Steamer pier, and it has hurricane damage that hasn’t been repaired. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, folks.  I’ll be in the Atlantic Beach area in North Carolina in mid-April, with my fly rod and my surf rod.  I don’t get to the beach often, so I’d appreciate any advice on what’s out there and how to catch it, from shore or pier.   Much obliged.   paul i have gone to atlantic many times, and caught nice blues and pompano in close with spinning gear.  however, that has been in the late summer and early fall.  if you want to try a pier, go to the iron city pier in the pine knolls shore area of the island. wayno

Response:

Latest reports from Bogue Inlet Pier (about 20 miles on other end of Bogue Banks — check thier website) is reporting big blow fish, spotty gray and speckled trout, and periodically good shows of sea mullet.  The flounder should start anytime now, as should blues (they are present farther south near the SC border and moving north).  Spots will probably be more abundant in 2 weeks from now, false albacore should be active just offshore (try the end of a pier), and a few other early birds like cobia may be starting up, depending on water temp.  Off-shore in the Gulf Stream you will be able to get tuna, wahoo, and dolphin (maui maui, dorado, etc.). Enjoy!  Try the NC inshore offshore web page for fishing reports. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, folks.  I’ll be in the Atlantic Beach area in North Carolina in mid-April, with my fly rod and my surf rod.  I don’t get to the beach often, so I’d appreciate any advice on what’s out there and how to catch it, from shore or pier.   Much obliged.   paul

Response:

Paul, Go to the Aquarium to access the sound. This time of the year, I normally fish the running tide (both in and out) over sand bars for Flounder (on a fly rod). I prefer to be on the sound with the lowest tide, closest to sunrise. My Out (In) Laws live right off Salther Path in PKS, and I take a small boat down to the Sound side near the Sheraton. Also, the Oysters and Mussels will be good for the pickin’ (if you are in to it). Good Luck ! SD – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, folks.  I’ll be in the Atlantic Beach area in North Carolina in mid-April, with my fly rod and my surf rod.  I don’t get to the beach often, so I’d appreciate any advice on what’s out there and how to catch it, from shore or pier.    Much obliged.    paul

Response:

Question:

I have used both the drying patch on my vest and a ripple foam pin-on fly holder for keeping wet flys after changeouts astream.

Great review snipped. I have used one of these now for a year and agree with the above review. There are two sizes of Fly Trap, I think both same price. I have the smaller one. Cheers Peter

Response:

I attached the Fly Trap to my mesh vest and it works admirably.

And a contrary review…I attached a fly trap to my vest and the lid came off at the hinge in the middle of the Hiwassee River. Will never use one again. Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

Response:

Wayne Knight: <<And a contrary review…I attached a fly trap to my vest and the lid came off at the hinge in the middle of the Hiwassee River. Will never use one again. As did mine after about 3 days of fishing.  I threw the damn thing in the trash.  Good idea.  Bad execution. Dave L.

Response:

0] : Wayne Knight: : <<And a contrary review…I attached a fly trap to my vest and the lid came off : at the hinge in the middle of the Hiwassee River. Will never use one again. : As did mine after about 3 days of fishing.  I threw the damn : thing in the trash.  Good idea.  Bad execution. : Dave L. Much to be preferred is Mike Connor’s two cent version of the same. It’s a 35mm film can with a bunch of holes punched in it. A cord passes thru a hole in the lid and is attached to the can. The other end of cord is attached to vest. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories  (remove x’s from email if not      Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971   a spammer) Phone: (650)-857-5491              

Response:

Wayne Knight: <<And a contrary review…I attached a fly trap to my vest and the lid came off at the hinge in the middle of the Hiwassee River. Will never use one again. As did mine after about 3 days of fishing.  I threw the damn thing in the trash.  Good idea.  Bad execution. Dave L.

hmmm, maybe I have one of the three good ones, I’ve had mine for 3 seasons now and haven’t had a speck of trouble with it. I hardly use a regular fly box any more, I only tie a few flies at a time, usually the night before I go fishing and they go right in the Fly Trap, between those and the ones left in it from the last time I went, there are always enough to get me thru a day. John Before you buy.

Response:

Wayne Knight: <<And a contrary review…I attached a fly trap to my vest and the lid came off at the hinge in the middle of the Hiwassee River. Will never use one again. As did mine after about 3 days of fishing.  I threw the damn thing in the trash.  Good idea.  Bad execution.

My wife and I both have one.  They’ve worked well for us for the past couple years.  I’ll have a look at ours to see if the hinge pins seem to be working loose. — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers!

Response:

I have used both the drying patch on my vest and a ripple foam pin-on fly holder for keeping wet flys after changeouts astream.  I have found the pin-on gets in the way of everything and both the pin-on and drying patch have lost flys before they could be returned to the fly box.  I recently acquired a Fly Trap from Ezflyfish and gave it a try last week.  This is an interesting device as it consists of ripple foam on a fold-out shelf.  The little black box attaches to the vest, shirt, or jacket with an interesting spring clip which holds firmly and positively without damaging the material.  It is easy to attach and detach for moving between outer garments.  The front of the box drops down and sticks out at a 90 degree angle like a shelf.  It is easy to pick flys off of the ripple foam shelf or add flys to the shelf.  Vents along the sides expedite drying.  Flys closed up in the trap are secure from loss and dry effectively.  The drawbacks are the additional bulk and weight (minimal but minimalist would scrutinize every gadget)and the cost (about $20).  Certainly a ventilated film canister would work also but I think not as effectively as the Fly Trap.  A canister bottom could be dropped and lost with its cargo.  The Fly Trap could also be loaded with a dozen favorite flys and carried alone as a small stream box very effeciently.  Dropping the shelf down and looking down at a glance shows you your flys without holding the box in your hand.  Come to think about it, a vest could be made up with several of these arranged to suit the wearer.  A customizable vest so to speak. The black, non-glare finish helps small stream stealth and its overall light weight and compactness favors small stream fishing as well.  I attached the Fly Trap to my mesh vest and it works admirably. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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Question:

There is a very beautiful pay to play lake 38 mi No of Seattle.  Its a catch and release fly-fishing only lake.  They have excellent guides if instruction is needed.  Float tubes, waders, boats, rods and everything you would need for a quality experiance.  There is a beautiful Hamptons style Barn for your indoor classes, seminars and retreats.  Check out the web site.  www.acountrylocation.com — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Surf Usenet at home, on the road, and by email — always at Talkway.

Response:

What are the green fees ? — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

There is a very beautiful pay to play lake 38 mi No of Seattle.  Its a catch and release fly-fishing only lake.  They have excellent guides if instruction is needed.  Float tubes, waders, boats, rods and everything you would need for a quality experiance.  There is a beautiful Hamptons style Barn for your indoor classes, seminars and retreats.  Check out the web site.  www.acountrylocation.com

Is this Fly fishing ??  Is this the future of FF’ing? Spa, food,Manacureist, lodge river/lake access fees? , Personal photographer to record for your desk the "Big One" you did let get away. Lunch on the Lake with a chilled White and bit smoked Pink. We need a bait pond with soft tacos and warm Oly  and a 1952 Airstream on blocks.A dish on top and a good Hockey game crashing out over the Lake and a card game going all the time. I would sign on there in a heart beat. HM

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Question:

[a lot of insufferably smug crap snipped]                                 Chris Simmons

Next time you get the urge to pontificate on the Usenet, head for the toilet instead. Peter Charles

Response:

If you colonials didnt have your heads in the sand half the time, and up somebody elses ass the other half,  you would know that lavender was the colour the season before last. The absolutely cool fly fisher in the coming season will be wearing pale lemon breathables, under orange wading boots, complemented with pink spats ( gravel guards for the uninitiated ! ) with bright yellow suspenders bearing the logo " If you dont C&R you are a wimp". The whole tastefully topped off with a "shortie" wading jacket in aubergine and beige  "flecktarn" with matching hat and chin strap. We are now open for flames ! Tight lines ! ( and whatever else seems appropriate under the circumstances ! ). Mike Connor

Response:

And  please  lets  not forget  How effective  gun control was in Northern Ireland. Jeesh. I contributed to this off topic thread?  lets stay with the purpose of this  NG please. There is a lot of  expertise and love of  fly fishing here. lets not dilute it with Politically Correct advodacy crap Davd

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[deleted] you dye your own doncha?

..get a big assed food processor a 6 foot butterfly net and round trip airline tickets to gay ski week in Aspen…just make sure to release all the fish when you hit The Pan. Your pal, — TimW

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Yeah..shooting fish!  He who owns a gun is a citizen?  Was this something I missed in the new Imigration Act? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – He who doesn’t own a gun is a victim. He who owns a gun is a citizen George Gehrke

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He means "He who owns a gun is a driving license holder" (if even that). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yeah..shooting fish!  He who owns a gun is a citizen?  Was this something I missed in the new Imigration Act? He who doesn’t own a gun is a victim. He who owns a gun is a citizen George Gehrke

Response:

He who doesn’t own a gun is a victim. He who owns a gun is a citizen George Gehrke

A gun is like a parachute, when you need one-YOU NEED ONE                                                        John Popp

Response:

He who doesn’t own a gun is a victim. He who owns a gun is a citizen George Gehrke A gun is like a parachute, when you need one-YOU NEED ONE                                                       John Popp

People who own guns are more likely to get shot than those who dont . Mike Connor

Response:

Chris, you talk like someone who still view Americans as strange type with plaid pants, 3 cameras round their necks and all talking loudly but not saying anything. You clearly have never been to the US. I am a British ex-pat and I tell you they are *exactly* like Brits, insofar as Brits are exactly like everyone else in the world. Sorry to burst your bubble on that one. In fact in many ways, living here is so much better. I don’t need to lock my door at night, I leave my car unlocked with the windows down when I go fishing on a main road and the worst that has ever happened is that I had a wet set when I returned. British gun laws and British ‘freedom with responsibility’ didn’t stop the Northern Irish from slaughtering 3000 odd people. Can’t remember the last time Americans pulled two people from a car, stripped them naked whilst women onlookers jeered and eventually put two bullets their heads. Doesn’t jump out at me. The now-famous mass killings here in the US are no different from the Hungerford slaughter in the late 80s, or that recent one in Scotland. These examples come out without having to think. You should do some national self reflection before you post. Really. As far as this newsgroup goes, don’t read the ‘50%’ of posts that don’t interest you. Notice that only a small percentage of the people in the group start and nurture these threads. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out who they are. Start the odd thread now and then, if you are so inclined. Good luck and enjoy the news group. It is one of the best forums on the net, IMHO. Gary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a Internet user, Ex Service man and fly fisher I have over the last year or so taken a keen interest in your News group.I find it Very Interesting to see how our American friends do things. With some 50% of your postings being off subject on such items as your politicians conduct, Slagging off other users and even Gun Control issues or lack of them .I must admit to find some of your postings  sad but amusing. How some of you find time, with some of the best flyfishing in the world to engage in this off message rubbish beggars belief, mind you With your political scandal (our politicians are the same) aren’t they all !. Over 100 of your Civilians die a week from gunshot wounds 1,600 of your children killed per year by firearms Every 90 minutes one of your motorist try to beat a train on a level crossing (It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess who wins) Ability to purchase an assault rifle for protecting your homes, or blow an hole in the next six homes in case of an accidental discharge! An old proverb comes to mind Freedom with responsibility is hard earned. Freedom with out responsibility is anarchy. So to all the sad cases, party on. To the real flyfishers on line keep up the good postings and Tight lines                     Best regards from over the pond                             Chris Simmons

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says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [deleted] would someone in colorado tell me everything they have learned about where to fish and how to fish?  i am planning a week-long trip to denver, and need something to spend money on.  for instance, are neoprene waders worn by the cool guys?  if so, what brand should i get? Sure… Wear lavender so you don’t clash with the wallpaper when you get back to the hotel. Your pal, TimW

Where the hell do you order them? Should be in the orvis cat…no mention of em. not in cabella’s either. Felt sure I’d find a pair for sale on EH’s page, but no luck there. gotta be cool, doncha know. questions….. timbo, you dye your own doncha? do you use a commercial non-bleeding dye? how long do you soak/bathe em? any special curing tricks you care to share? best…. –Wataugan Walt

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How some of you find time, with some of the best flyfishing in the world to engage in this off message rubbish beggars belief, mind you With your political scandal (our politicians are the same) aren’t they all !. Over 100 of your Civilians die a week from gunshot wounds 1,600 of your children killed per year by firearms  Every 90 minutes one of your motorist try to beat a train on a level crossing (It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess who wins)  Ability to purchase an assault rifle for protecting your homes, or blow an hole in the next six homes in case of an accidental discharge! An old proverb comes to mind Freedom with responsibility is hard earned. Freedom with out responsibility is anarchy. So to all the sad cases, party on. To the real flyfishers on line keep up

 Chris, These are the very reasons that I stay home and go on-line. Love from the Colonies, Ron

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[deleted] would someone in colorado tell me everything they have learned about where to fish and how to fish?  i am planning a week-long trip to denver, and need something to spend money on.  for instance, are neoprene waders worn by the cool guys?  if so, what brand should i get?

Sure… Wear lavender so you don’t clash with the wallpaper when you get back to the hotel. Your pal, TimW

Response:

As a Internet user, Ex Service man and fly fisher I have over the last year or so taken a keen interest in your News group.I find it Very Interesting to see how our American friends do things. With some 50% of your postings being off subject on such items as your politicians conduct, Slagging off other users and even Gun Control issues or lack of them .I must admit to find some of your postings  sad but amusing. How some of you find time, with some of the best flyfishing in the world to engage in this off message rubbish beggars belief,

        (lots of failure to communicate snipped) So to all the sad cases, party on. To the real flyfishers on line keep up the good postings and Tight lines                     Best regards from over the pond                               Chris Simmons

        oh, well, i will interrupt my partying on to supply a post that might please you, chris old fellow:         thomas & thomas is better than sage.         no, sage is better.         isn’t.         is. or, perhaps this one:         would someone in colorado tell me everything they have learned about where to fish and how to fish?  i am planning a week-long trip to denver, and need something to spend money on.  for instance, are neoprene waders worn by the cool guys?  if so, what brand should i get? or this:         as you all know, the "humpbacked scarlet zizzwheel" is one of the greatest late season carp flies of all time.  should i make my final dubbing with rat fur stained with the urine of immature fox?         well, hope that satisfies your need for the kind of posts we would get if "off topic" material were banned on roff.  sure has been enough for me, for a while. a. wayne harrison

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(snipped) My favorite is the "we don’t want to take guns away from law-abiding citizens, only criminals". – Gee, how are you going to do that? – By making laws.

(fun and telling stuff snipped) Later,     – Ken P.S.  It’s been illegal for criminals to own guns for a long time now, hasn’t helped yet.

        you go, kj.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a Internet user, Ex Service man and fly fisher I have over the last year or so taken a keen interest in your News group.I find it Very Interesting to see how our American friends do things. With some 50% of your postings being off subject on such items as your politicians conduct, Slagging off other users and even Gun Control issues or lack of them .I must admit to find some of your postings  sad but amusing. How some of you find time, with some of the best flyfishing in the world to engage in this off message rubbish beggars belief, mind you With your political scandal (our politicians are the same) aren’t they all !. Over 100 of your Civilians die a week from gunshot wounds 1,600 of your children killed per year by firearms  Every 90 minutes one of your motorist try to beat a train on a level crossing (It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess who wins)  Ability to purchase an assault rifle for protecting your homes, or blow an hole in the next six homes in case of an accidental discharge! An old proverb comes to mind Freedom with responsibility is hard earned. Freedom with out responsibility is anarchy. So to all the sad cases, party on. To the real flyfishers on line keep up the good postings and Tight lines                      Best regards from over the pond                              Chris Simmons

A slight correction, assault rifles are not legal here. What you hear about are semi autos that are cosmetically simular judged by gun control advocates as assault weapons (a non entity). You may also wish to check out the crimes here as in England seems the English crime statistics are higher. Sorry for the off topic post but the corrections had to be made.                                                          John Popp                                                      in Sanford Fl.

Response:

He who doesn’t own a gun is a victim. He who owns a gun is a citizen George Gehrke

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says… As a Internet user, Ex Service man and fly fisher I have over the last year or so taken a keen interest in your News group.I find it Very Interesting to see how our American friends do things. With some 50% of your postings being off subject on such items as your politicians conduct, Slagging off other users and even Gun Control issues or lack of them .I must admit to find some of your postings  sad but amusing. How some of you find time, with some of the best flyfishing in the world to engage in this off message rubbish beggars belief, mind you With your political scandal (our politicians are the same) aren’t they all !. Over 100 of your Civilians die a week from gunshot wounds 1,600 of your children killed per year by firearms Every 90 minutes one of your motorist try to beat a train on a level crossing (It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess who wins) Ability to purchase an assault rifle for protecting your homes, or blow an hole in the next six homes in case of an accidental discharge! An old proverb comes to mind Freedom with responsibility is hard earned. Freedom with out responsibility is anarchy. So to all the sad cases, party on. To the real flyfishers on line keep up the good postings and Tight lines                     Best regards from over the pond                             Chris Simmons Chris, I take it you’re from our motherland. We all have our problems. As far as off-topic, ‘thar really ain’t no such thing. We dialogue here as we would on a stream (actually, a little more civily on the stream). Our bond being, this is our cyber stream and it’s full of flies (bait) and risers. So wade on in, the waters cold. aside from all that, we can’t fish all the time….god knows I’ve tried… –Wataugan Walt

Steelhead for you today.  The biggest did damage to my Famous Grouse drinking arm.  Just goes to show what I’ll do for a friend. Ow!  Easy  honey.  Just rub the shoulder a little longer.  ah?  could you hand me that glass right there? yes, thank youuuuuuuuuuuu – sip! ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! (this is a dirty, thankless, filthy sport but someone’s got to do it) —

Response:

As a Internet user, Ex Service man and fly fisher I have over the last year or so taken a keen interest in your News group.I find it Very Interesting to see how our American friends do things. With some 50% of your postings being off subject on such items as your politicians conduct, Slagging off other users and even Gun Control issues or lack of them .I must admit to find some of your postings  sad but amusing. How some of you find time, with some of the best flyfishing in the world to engage in this off message rubbish beggars belief, mind you With your political scandal (our politicians are the same) aren’t they all !. Over 100 of your Civilians die a week from gunshot wounds 1,600 of your children killed per year by firearms  Every 90 minutes one of your motorist try to beat a train on a level crossing (It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess who wins)  Ability to purchase an assault rifle for protecting your homes, or blow an hole in the next six homes in case of an accidental discharge! An old proverb comes to mind                                         Freedom with responsibility is hard earned. Freedom with out responsibility is anarchy. So to all the sad cases, party on. To the real flyfishers on line keep up the good postings and Tight lines                      Best regards from over the pond                                Chris Simmons

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Simmons: <<Over 100 of your Civilians die a week from gunshot wounds 1,600 of your children killed per year by firearms Every 90 minutes one of your motorist try to beat a train on a level crossing (It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess who wins) Ability to purchase an assault rifle for protecting your homes, or blow an hole in the next six homes in case of an accidental discharge! Ah, but take heart, my friend.  Doncha know that there are now more than 2000 gun laws and the liberals want more.  They believe we can legistlate morals.  More guns?  Hell, give ‘em more laws and more laws.  That’ll teach ‘em! Dave LaCourse

My favorite is the "we don’t want to take guns away from law-abiding citizens, only criminals". – Gee, how are you going to do that? – By making laws. – Silly question time, but what makes a person a criminal? – They break the law. [Stunned Silence] – So you’re gonna create laws to keep people who break laws from having guns? [More Stunned Silence] – [DUH] Ya gotta love short-sighted people. Later,      - Ken P.S.  It’s been illegal for criminals to own guns for a long time now, hasn’t helped yet.

Response:

<<Over 100 of your Civilians die a week from gunshot wounds 1,600 of your children killed per year by firearms  Every 90 minutes one of your motorist try to beat a train on a level crossing (It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess who wins)  Ability to purchase an assault rifle for protecting your homes, or blow an hole in the next six homes in case of an accidental discharge! An old proverb comes to mind                                         Freedom with responsibility is hard earned. Freedom with out responsibility is anarchy. You forgot one thing.  Freedom from English rule came from citizens having access to fire arms.

Response:

Simmons: <<Over 100 of your Civilians die a week from gunshot wounds 1,600 of your children killed per year by firearms  Every 90 minutes one of your motorist try to beat a train on a level crossing (It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess who wins)  Ability to purchase an assault rifle for protecting your homes, or blow an hole in the next six homes in case of an accidental discharge! Ah, but take heart, my friend.  Doncha know that there are now more than 2000 gun laws and the liberals want more.  They believe we can legistlate morals.  More guns?  Hell, give ‘em more laws and more laws.  That’ll teach ‘em! Dave LaCourse

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Flyfish4fun: <<You forgot one thing.  Freedom from English rule came from citizens having access to fire arms. LOL.   Wish I had said that! Dave LaCourse

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says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -As a Internet user, Ex Service man and fly fisher I have over the last year or so taken a keen interest in your News group.I find it Very Interesting to see how our American friends do things. With some 50% of your postings being off subject on such items as your politicians conduct, Slagging off other users and even Gun Control issues or lack of them .I must admit to find some of your postings  sad but amusing. How some of you find time, with some of the best flyfishing in the world to engage in this off message rubbish beggars belief, mind you With your political scandal (our politicians are the same) aren’t they all !. Over 100 of your Civilians die a week from gunshot wounds 1,600 of your children killed per year by firearms Every 90 minutes one of your motorist try to beat a train on a level crossing (It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess who wins) Ability to purchase an assault rifle for protecting your homes, or blow an hole in the next six homes in case of an accidental discharge! An old proverb comes to mind                                         Freedom with responsibility is hard earned. Freedom with out responsibility is anarchy. So to all the sad cases, party on. To the real flyfishers on line keep up the good postings and Tight lines                     Best regards from over the pond                               Chris Simmons

Chris, I take it you’re from our motherland. We all have our problems. As far as off-topic, ‘thar really ain’t no such thing. We dialogue here as we would on a stream (actually, a little more civily on the stream). Our bond being, this is our cyber stream and it’s full of flies (bait) and risers. So wade on in, the waters cold. aside from all that, we can’t fish all the time….god knows I’ve tried… –Wataugan Walt

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -As a Internet user, Ex Service man and fly fisher I have over the last year or so taken a keen interest in your News group.I find it Very Interesting to see how our American friends do things. With some 50% of your postings being off subject on such items as your politicians conduct, Slagging off other users and even Gun Control issues or lack of them .I must admit to find some of your postings  sad but amusing. How some of you find time, with some of the best flyfishing in the world to engage in this off message rubbish beggars belief, mind you With your political scandal (our politicians are the same) aren’t they all !. Over 100 of your Civilians die a week from gunshot wounds 1,600 of your children killed per year by firearms Every 90 minutes one of your motorist try to beat a train on a level crossing (It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess who wins) Ability to purchase an assault rifle for protecting your homes, or blow an hole in the next six homes in case of an accidental discharge! An old proverb comes to mind                                         Freedom with responsibility is hard earned. Freedom with out responsibility is anarchy. So to all the sad cases, party on. To the real flyfishers on line keep up the good postings and Tight lines                     Best regards from over the pond                               Chris Simmons

  Harry

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Walt,     I don’t think this kid fly-fishes.  He looks like a wire line troller. Wayne To fish is human…to release devine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – aside from all that, we can’t fish all the time….god knows I’ve tried… –Wataugan Walt

Response:

Question:

I am traveling to Last Chance, ID for the weekend.  I would appreciate any reports on conditions on the Henry’s Fork and the rivers in the park, especially the Firehole.  Suggestion for flies and sizes will be appreciated (I’ve been tying mostly small caddis dries, princes, and GRHE — sizes 16 & 18). Thanks. Jim Impara

Response:

I am traveling to Last Chance, ID for the weekend.  I would appreciate any reports on conditions on the Henry’s Fork and the rivers in the park, especially the Firehole.  Suggestion for flies and sizes will be appreciated (I’ve been tying mostly small caddis dries, princes, and GRHE — sizes 16 & 18). Thanks. Jim ImparaHi Jim

The whole area is fishing good.  Your choice of flies are right on but add some BWO dries and emergers as well. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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Question:

I just fished the PM on the 6th and 7th of this month. Lots bof fish in the river. Most were old but on Monday, Kelly Galloup, the guide if you know him said he saw fresh ones come up. There had been no rain for a long time but it did rain on Monday. After that I don’t know. If there was rain there has been rain in the last few days things should be good. The bottom line is it is worth the trip. Be prepared for lots of foul hook ups. My advice fish the deep holes and pray. Try different kinds of flies. They have seen lots of cadis emergers and stone flies. Try bright wooly buggers, black and yellow. Good luck. David

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Path: magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news-pe er.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.ero ls.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!pravda.aa.msen.com!not- for-mail Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: Msen, Inc. — Ann Arbor, MI. Lines: 11 NNTP-Posting-Host: conch.aa.msen.com X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0]

Yeah, we just got back two weeks ago many of the fish were redding. johnson’s will lead you to them but you’ll pay for it. We brought our own canoe and floated every day from m-37 to green cottage and caught more fish than any of the guides. Hope this helps. An aside, the guides were not to pleasant. Brad – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Anyone know of the stream status in Northern Michigan? Johnson Lodge on the Pere Marquette says there are ’some’ fish being caught by them. I just found out that I can get out of Detroit this weeekend,  October 12, and am looking to wet a line somewhere. Thanks in advance  and Tight Lines Henry

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Anyone know of the stream status in Northern Michigan? Johnson Lodge on the Pere Marquette says there are ’some’ fish being caught by them. I just found out that I can get out of Detroit this weeekend,  October 12, and am looking to wet a line somewhere. Thanks in advance  and Tight Lines Henry

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Question:

Hello to fly-fishers here in the southeast — here’s a few things I felt worth posting: 1.  Davidson River pseudo – report.  Fished this fine river Saturday and Sunday (9/23 – 24).  Caught one small brown…most other people I talked to had the same kind of luck – a few had great luck ( I suspect their techniques were just much better – pattern didn’t seem to have much to do with it).  Anyways, fish were rising to small ( #20 – #22 ) blond midges, and subsurface takes were mainly on woolies / streamer type flies.  I didn’t talk to anyone personally who scored big, but heard of one gentleman go to town with some sort of a heavily weighted (split shot on the leader), small serendipity variation.  Still had a great time (aside from sleeping in the rain.) 2. Question #1:  Does anyone know the potential adverse affects of tying with lead?  I’ve been tying a lot of lead weighted flies and am not completely comfortable with the lead residue I end up with on my fingertips.  Can lead be absorbed through the skin?  If so, has anyone had success with particular brands of lead substitute? 3.  Question #2:  Fly line dressing.  I’ve never messed with it before, I guess because I’ve always fished with #5 line or heavier.  Got a new #4, and noticed that the line didn’t want to pick up off the water as easily.  I think some sort of dressing might be the cure for my ailments – I was planning on just using scotchguard, but don’t want to screw up the line.  Any suggestions from out there? One of the most encouraging things I see on the web is posts from those of us who fish the NC / Tenn / SC / North. GA. waters.  I think it would be great to set up a small forum of localized discussion for everyone’s Tight Lines, Terry

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Eminhizer) writes: Hello to fly-fishers here in the southeast — One of the most encouraging things I see on the web is posts from those of us who fish the NC / Tenn / SC / North. GA. waters.  I think it would be great to set up a small forum of localized discussion for everyone’s Tight Lines, Terry

Terry,  I fish weekends on the Chatooga (near Cashiers), Horsepasture, Whitewater and Tuckaseegee (sp?).  I think a continuing string on NC flyfishing conditions would be great. Everyone from the the area could just post short reports after each excursion. It would be a great resource.  I fished the Horsepasture near Toxaway Sunday (9/24).  Didn’t catch anything of any size. The three and four inch rainbows tore up the flies on almost every drift. I was using a #16 coachman, and then later when a small hatch started, #18 Light Cahill.   Have you fished the "Tuck" in the spring before the "harvest"? I caught the tail end this year and it was tremendous. Mike Ray

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IIt hit the fly which has landed me more fish than any other this season, the venerable #8 Muddler Minnow. Regarding the Tuckaseegee in the spring, I have had very good luck in the spring with big nymphs (Girdle Bugs, Hellgramites, etc.) and, of course, Muddler Minnows.  I’ve never had much dry fly luck there, though.  I’d be interested to know what part you fish.  I usually concentrate on the area around WCU. Haig Rudd

Haig, I usually fish just where the pavement stops (coming from the ice cream store) to the island. If thats crowded, there’s usually noone downstream of the island to the first bridge (the boundary for spring C & R). I’ve had pretty good luck with wooley buggers and stonefly nymphs.  I’ll try muddlers next time. Mike Ray

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I too would like to see a southeast flyfishing forum started.  I just returned from fishing the Davidson, just above and below the hatchery and caught numerous 12-13" rainbows.  This area always seems to hold plenty of trout.  The only difficult area is the quiet waters with sipping trout that are very difficult to catch.  Ive had the most luck with 7x leaders and size 24-26 ants or Griffith gnats.

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