Question:

Anybody know anything about this area.  I seem to get to be there over the 4th of July with the in-laws.  Is there any fly fishing in the general area? Trout preferred- but I understand there are bass in the lake proper. john

Response:

fishing in this lake is great smallmouth,largemouth,trout,perch and a few others as well i have maps of this lake if you like the fishing is very good in this lake

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody know anything about this area.  I seem to get to be there over the 4th of July with the in-laws.  Is there any fly fishing in the general area? Trout preferred- but I understand there are bass in the lake proper. john

Response:

Anybody know anything about this area.  I seem to get to be there over the 4th of July with the in-laws.  Is there any fly fishing in the general area? Trout preferred- but I understand there are bass in the lake proper. john

You can get information at: http://www.wa.gov/wdfw/fishcorn.htm and the latest lake and streamflow data at: http://wa.water.usgs.gov/rivers Good luck. –Scott–

Response:

Question:

My friends on FF at are trying to describe a clave  to folks in NZ. Thought you might enjoy although I recognize no Roffians there V Lets be frank Richard American clave fishing is a misnomer.

        i love the smell of envy in the morning…         wayno, the first clavemeister

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My friends on FF at are trying to describe a clave  to folks in NZ. Thought you might enjoy although I recognize no Roffians there V Lets be frank Richard American clave fishing is a misnomer.  I have yet to see a decent fish on post Clave website photo opportunity postings, By decent I mean anything over 3 inches. Lots of shots of folk enjoying themselves eating & drinking & telling lies. In various stages of unshaven dishevelment. & thats just the mud wrestlers (I withdraw yr honour) But not fish in hand. Nor are there multitudinous tales of C&R. Which leads me to believe that any fishing is an accidental byproduct of the weekend.  - There appear to be 2 styles of American Clave fishing when a misguided attempt is made to put fly on or in water  - The raft hunt.  - The gang fish. The Raft Hunt The former arises because, for some unknown reason, many claves are scheduled to coincide with college holidays. The end result is that the occasional aberrant Clavee that actually crawls to the water , rod in hand, post stomach pump, post detox, post the shock of the early morning visit by the chicken skin toupee’d or the stuffed pig  - usually casts to a river full of tubing & rafting pissed as a rat students. No fish about mind you, but lots of movement on the river. Once it is known that the hills & waters are alive with rafters & tubers & other alcoholics, the scene then degenerates into the pissed as a rat clavees pulling their deckchairs or Motahomes up on the river bank &  cans in hands, (22 in the cooler  underneath the seat), they spend many happy hours yelling encouragement to the passing tubers & rafters. Many of whom are minimally clad. Particularly the female ones. Which brings out the best in male Clavees. Hence their  boisterous but friendly exhortations to – "Get yr gear off!!" Such is the elegance  and sophistication of American clave fishing. Gang fishing The other, more pernicious style, is known as the gang fish. Of this I have seen evidence on the Internet. Photos of a Canadian angler midstream wielding a blotched & overused purple rod with fish drawings on the butt, attempting delicate dry fly placement whilst 15 Clavees in various stages of intoxication or food poisoning stand on the bank & offer advice. Loudly. Some also chunder for him.  & as he stands midstream he is no doubt hoping that if they must that at least they  divest themselves downstream of his 3 wt elegant efforts as opposed to creating an upstream tide of Ball Buster, which he knows, just knows in his heart, will dissolve his waders should he be unfortunate enough to be caught in the flow. "There it is ", they  scream, jumping up and down on the bank in excitement pointing to a small twig stuck on the bottom of the waters. "No, no, cast closer into the tree!!"  they exhort & so it goes on. Now is this fair  to the fish? Is it fair to the angler? What chance does he have with 15 experts with a bell curve distribution of states of intoxication offering advice. In very loud voices. That make the ground tremble & the trees sway. But they are wearing the T shirt. So its ok. Usually it prevails until one of the happily pissed falls into the water & discovers that the fish have long since departed. At which juncture the tribe repairs to the campsite to consume more Ball Buster & Bourbon by way of commiseration with fishless purple rod. Now, I have missed out Socialising as a stand alone topic, but I trust you will agree with me that an American Clave is merely an excuse for participants to socialise to the max. & I think this is a good thing. It is de facto fish conservation. & there is a lot of this because Claves have a habit of attracting rain. So attendees get to huddle together for comfort & what can one do in those circumstances but eat, drink & tell lies.  Outrageous untruths. Veritable supercharged bull dust. All about fishing None of which is actually undertaken. In fact most, if not all Clavees would not even notice if they left their rods at home.<g GS NZ We seem to be missing the women who bring their own batteries in case sex is needed. Indfian Joe

OMG — this is hilarious!!  Thanks — you made my day!! Sandy

Response:

I’ve been away from the vise for a while, & I must be getting rusty.   Tied two flies today & snipped off my tying thread three times.   I hate when that happens.  :-) Joe F.

Response:

I’ve been away from the vise for a while, & I must be getting rusty.   Tied two flies today & snipped off my tying thread three times.   I hate when that happens.  :-) Joe F.

Greetings:   Well Joe, you’re not alone.  Every Fall, around November or so when I start spending more time indoors, it takes me a while to get back "into it."  I’m a total fumblefingers.  Just out of habit, I usually tie flys by the dozen.  So for example if I tie a dozen #14 Adams, I end up throwing two or three away in disgust.  After a few sessions at the bench, I seem to get over it (thankfully!) I snip off the tying thread, I snip off the wings, I poke myself when I reach up to grab the beer and the scissors are still in my hand – (I tell ya’ it’s a good thing I have to wear glasses when tying now days!)  :-/   What helps me a little is to tie the larger and simpler patterns I need first, then move on the small and more complex ones as I get "warmed up" again.  Lastly, when I’ve got everything I _think_ I need tied up for the coming season, I experiment with new patterns.   Of course, it’s not _just_ the tying skills that need refreshing, rather it’s the combination of related, simultaneous activities.  In my case, those include one or more of the following: 1)    Drinking beer 2)    Watching sporting events with one eye. 3)    Petting the lap cat (who remains blissfully unaware of how dangerous I can       be with a small pair of small sharp scissors on my fingers!)   Bottom Line:  Multi-tasking can be both messy and dangerous.  Happy tying season.   Cheers,  -Mark

Response:

I’ve been away from the vise for a while, & I must be getting rusty.   Tied two flies today & snipped off my tying thread three times.   I hate when that happens.  :-)

Use a sharp single-edge razor instead of scissors and that’ll happen a lot less…

Response:

My friends on FF at are trying to describe a clave  to folks in NZ. Thought you might enjoy although I recognize no Roffians there V Lets be frank Richard American clave fishing is a misnomer.  I have yet to see a decent fish on post Clave website photo opportunity postings, By decent I mean anything over 3 inches. Lots of shots of folk enjoying themselves eating & drinking & telling lies. In various stages of unshaven dishevelment. & thats just the mud wrestlers (I withdraw yr honour) But not fish in hand. Nor are there multitudinous tales of C&R. Which leads me to believe that any fishing is an accidental byproduct of the weekend.  - There appear to be 2 styles of American Clave fishing when a misguided attempt is made to put fly on or in water  - The raft hunt.  - The gang fish. The Raft Hunt The former arises because, for some unknown reason, many claves are scheduled to coincide with college holidays. The end result is that the occasional aberrant Clavee that actually crawls to the water , rod in hand, post stomach pump, post detox, post the shock of the early morning visit by the chicken skin toupee’d or the stuffed pig  - usually casts to a river full of tubing & rafting pissed as a rat students. No fish about mind you, but lots of movement on the river. Once it is known that the hills & waters are alive with rafters & tubers & other alcoholics, the scene then degenerates into the pissed as a rat clavees pulling their deckchairs or Motahomes up on the river bank &  cans in hands, (22 in the cooler  underneath the seat), they spend many happy hours yelling encouragement to the passing tubers & rafters. Many of whom are minimally clad. Particularly the female ones. Which brings out the best in male Clavees. Hence their  boisterous but friendly exhortations to – "Get yr gear off!!" Such is the elegance  and sophistication of American clave fishing. Gang fishing The other, more pernicious style, is known as the gang fish. Of this I have seen evidence on the Internet. Photos of a Canadian angler midstream wielding a blotched & overused  purple rod with fish drawings on the butt, attempting delicate dry fly placement whilst 15 Clavees in various stages of intoxication or food poisoning stand on the bank & offer advice. Loudly. Some also chunder for him.  & as he stands midstream he is no doubt hoping that if they must that at least they  divest themselves downstream of his 3 wt elegant efforts as opposed to creating an upstream tide of Ball Buster, which he knows, just knows in his heart, will dissolve his waders should he be unfortunate enough to be caught in the flow. "There it is ", they  scream, jumping up and down on the bank in excitement pointing to a small twig stuck on the bottom of the waters. "No, no, cast closer into the tree!!"  they exhort & so it goes on. Now is this fair  to the fish? Is it fair to the angler? What chance does he have with 15 experts with a bell curve distribution of states of intoxication offering advice. In very loud voices. That make the ground tremble & the trees sway. But they are wearing the T shirt. So its ok. Usually it prevails until one of the happily pissed falls into the water & discovers that the fish have long since departed. At which juncture the tribe repairs to the campsite to consume more Ball Buster & Bourbon by way of commiseration with fishless purple rod. Now, I have missed out Socialising as a stand alone topic, but I trust you will agree with me that an American Clave is merely an excuse for participants to socialise to the max. & I think this is a good thing. It is de facto fish conservation. & there is a lot of this because Claves have a habit of attracting rain. So attendees get to huddle together for comfort & what can one do in those circumstances but eat, drink & tell lies.  Outrageous untruths. Veritable supercharged bull dust. All about fishing None of which is actually undertaken. In fact most, if not all Clavees would not even notice if they left their rods at home.<g GS NZ We seem to be missing the women who bring their own batteries in case sex is needed. Indfian Joe

Response:

Question:

Maybe people from this area (Baltimore- Washington Corridor) could hook up for lunch, scope out some things together or just appreciate how plain stupid we probably look to one another.  Not that there’s really anything wrong with being ugly, I feel proud  that I am actually very good at practicing and exhibiting ugliness, it doesn’t take a lot of work ya know. Hell, if we were to hook up as a small clave of complete mullethead wearing, scudge head looking, biscuit head toting boneheads we just might be able to take over the place and buy some fine tackle.  I am sure the hucksters would gladly hook-up a collective group of biscuit head Roffians with good prices and great deals,  just to see us move away from their booth in a hurry. Having never visited the show before I have every intention of dragging this big ass unsightly looking numbnut over to the extravaganza in hope of meeting some other butt ugly Roffian brothers and see some way cool stuff and demos.  Who knows, even a non repugnant ugster like myself could grab some free FF lessons and/or instructions. Anybody interested at meeting one another at the show please post to the group or e-mail me, maybe someone who have been there before could indicate a good place to meet, at least for an introduction.  Keep in mind the uglier the better, attractive people need not apply. On the more serious side, if anybody is interest in car pooling from Columbia, MD, please give me a shout.  I’ll be glad to drive as long as my Jeep is out of the shop. Your One and Only Supreme Cheesehead. Tony Norton

Response:

Tony;    Got a bunch of us meeting at the front desk at noon on Saturday. Just look for the naked guys wearing pink or red carnations swilling Glen Livet from the bottle (anti-freeze doncha know).             Frank Reid – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe people from this area (Baltimore- Washington Corridor) could hook up for lunch, scope out some things together or just appreciate how plain stupid we probably look to one another.  Not that there’s really anything wrong with being ugly, I feel proud  that I am actually very good at practicing and exhibiting ugliness, it doesn’t take a lot of work ya know. Hell, if we were to hook up as a small clave of complete mullethead wearing, scudge head looking, biscuit head toting boneheads we just might be able to take over the place and buy some fine tackle.  I am sure the hucksters would gladly hook-up a collective group of biscuit head Roffians with good prices and great deals,  just to see us move away from their booth in a hurry. Having never visited the show before I have every intention of dragging this big ass unsightly looking numbnut over to the extravaganza in hope of meeting some other butt ugly Roffian brothers and see some way cool stuff and demos.  Who knows, even a non repugnant ugster like myself could grab some free FF lessons and/or instructions. Anybody interested at meeting one another at the show please post to the group or e-mail me, maybe someone who have been there before could indicate a good place to meet, at least for an introduction.  Keep in mind the uglier the better, attractive people need not apply. On the more serious side, if anybody is interest in car pooling from Columbia, MD, please give me a shout.  I’ll be glad to drive as long as my Jeep is out of the shop. Your One and Only Supreme Cheesehead. Tony Norton

Response:

Tony;    Got a bunch of us meeting at the front desk at noon on Saturday. Just look for the naked guys wearing pink or red carnations swilling Glen Livet from the bottle (anti-freeze doncha know).             Frank Reid

HEY FRANK!  I just figured out HOW to hold that carnation!!!! — Wayne To Fish is Human….To Release Divine!

Response:

Tony;    Got a bunch of us meeting at the front desk at noon on Saturday. Just look for the naked guys wearing pink or red carnations swilling Glen Livet from the bottle (anti-freeze doncha know).             Frank Reid HEY FRANK!  I just figured out HOW to hold that carnation!!!! — Wayne To Fish is Human….To Release Divine!

ROFLMAO!  Somebody, anybody, have a video rolling when the carnation wielders arrive. If it’s drooping, does it mean it needs water? Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

ROFLMAO!  Somebody, anybody, have a video rolling when the carnation wielders arrive. If it’s drooping, does it mean it needs water? Peter

GAAAWWWWD PETER!! You want pictures of the STRANGEST things! — Wayne To Fish is Human….To Release Divine!

Response:

So, Tony, after that last bit of visual cueing (god, I’ll need extensive therapy just to cleanse my brain, or a 4 pack of McAffrey’s), do you still want to meet with this bunch?           Frank Drink early, drink often. ROFLMAO!  Somebody, anybody, have a video rolling when the carnation wielders arrive. If it’s drooping, does it mean it needs water? Peter GAAAWWWWD PETER!! You want pictures of the STRANGEST things! — Wayne To Fish is Human….To Release Divine!

Response:

I’ll be there Saturday.  I’ll look for the ones wearing a "ROFF" sign around their neck about noon.  I’ll be the decrepit old coot wearing a non-fly fishing white baseball cap that has a small red, white and blue logo that says "owners day 2000" on the front.  If you don’t like what you see make believe that you never heard of ROFF Lou

Response:

Pink carnations!  We all need pink carnations.  The wiff promised to get some at work so I’ll pass them out (before I pass out).             Frank I’ll be there Saturday.  I’ll look for the ones wearing a "ROFF" sign around their neck about noon.  I’ll be the decrepit old coot wearing a non- fly fishing white baseball cap that has a small red, white and blue logo that says "owners day 2000" on the front.  If you don’t like what you see make believe that you never heard of ROFF Lou

Response:

"Frank Reid" wrote Pink carnations!  We all need pink carnations.

   And pick-up trucks!           Charlie, feeling a little out of luck.

Response:

Maybe people from this area (Baltimore- Washington Corridor) could hook up for lunch, scope out some things together or just appreciate how plain stupid we probably look to one another.

SWMBO & I will be there Saturday (I’m still amazed she’s going to do it.) If I can’t find pink carnations, I’ll be wearing a ROFF hat (yeah, and shirt & pants & shoes for you wise guys).   Probably won’t make a whole day of it; but noon Sat. at the entrance table works for me.   Counting spouses, that’s what, seven? Joe F.

Response:

Pink carnations!  We all need pink carnations.  The wiff promised to get some at work so I’ll pass them out (before I pass out).            Frank

I thought the title was A White Sport Coat and Pink Crustaceans. Parrot Head Big Dale

Response:

Well, in Maryland, we all got crabs, so that would be a bit outre.  We should do crab samiches for lunch.      Frank I thought the title was A White Sport Coat and Pink Crustaceans. Parrot Head Big Dale

Response:

Big Dale, Dianna and I were at one of his concerts last summer and had a blast.  Parrot Heads and fins everywhere!!! — Wayne wasting away in margaritaville To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought the title was A White Sport Coat and Pink Crustaceans. Parrot Head Big Dale

Response:

Question:

um…depends on the moment and method of collection… jeff (finally…a reason to be interested in tying)

Oh, I can picture it.  Jeffy standing on a street corner somewhere in Greensboro, scissors and little plastic baggies in hand – soliciting contributions. Good effin’ luck Peter

Response:

um…depends on the moment and method of collection… jeff (finally…a reason to be interested in tying) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Waitaminute.. is that a dry fly or a wet fly?     "On the Sunday we arrived, I tied an outrageously colourful fly which featured a tuft of my wife’s pubic hair — Particle Salad/ Noom Room Studio http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad mp3 songs: http://www.mp3.com/particlesalad

Response:

um…depends on the moment and method of collection…

Pffft. Joe F.

Response:

Waitaminute.. is that a dry fly or a wet fly?     "On the Sunday we arrived, I tied an outrageously colourful fly which featured a tuft of my wife’s pubic hair

– Particle Salad/ Noom Room Studio http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad mp3 songs: http://www.mp3.com/particlesalad

Response:

Waitaminute.. is that a dry fly or a wet fly?     "On the Sunday we arrived, I tied an outrageously colourful fly which featured a tuft of my wife’s pubic hair

This whole story smells a little fishy to me.  :P   minkaz – someone had to say it heheh

Response:

While preparing for my move, I found an article from a major London newspaper that some one had sent me about four years ago.  Rather than editorialize (ok, I had to make one comment) it, I thought that this crowd would appreciate it. Fly fishermen find wifely charms provide new lure By Michael Hornsby, countryside correspondent.     Male anglers are going to indelicate lengths to test the age-old belief on the riverbank that female rivals possess some unfair magic enabling them to hook more and bigger fish.     Scientific research (albeit disputed) provides some support for the idea, suggesting that female pheromones, the bodily scents that attract members of the opposite sex, may work equally well in luring salmon and trout.     Anglers now claim to have proved the theory by incorporating strands of their wives’ pubic hair in the material used to make fishing flies. Disclosure of this dubious practice has provoked a risqu

Question:

You might want to fish Cliff and Wade lake from that float tube. Schuh-fly

Response:

Brian Nelson writes:

(snip good info) With closer inspection, one will find the seams and riffles just like any other freestone, only on a larger, more subtle, scale.

Thank you, Brian.  You have confirmed what I thought they might be like.  I am sure there are raging rivers out there, especially during run-off.  Thanks again. Dave LaCourse

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.   The absence of rapids is obvious.  In fact, in most of the pix, the water looks like it could be a pond or lake. Now, I am sure there is a current, otherwise it wouldn’t be a river <g.  But I get the impression that they are slow moving. Western Montana topography is characterized by what is called the Broad Valley Rockies. These glacially-carved u-shaped valleys are actually fairly easy gradient (not too steep). This results in rivers which typically are not raging torrents as some people may envision the northern Rockies. The Clark Fork (the largest of the rivers) and the Big Hole, with exceptions, are fairly ‘flat’ rivers. They are still freestone and

subsequently do flood and get scary during runoff, but during the low flow times, are great rivers for getting LONG drifts with a fly. The water is moving at 3 to 5 miles an hour but it is deceiving when it is a flat stretch. With closer inspection, one will find the seams and riffles just like any other

freestone, only on a larger, more subtle, scale. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

Any time you want to floattube rivers just remember how much of you is underwater!! * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

The absolute, definitive, conclusive answer is, "It depends."  I have fished all of the rivers that you mentioned (not that it makes me an expert or anything), and I have to say that it depends on where you look and when you look there.  Henry’s Fork is a big open flat down on the Railroad Ranch section, but is whitewater a few miles upstream in Box Canyon.  Similarly, the Big Hole is pretty easy to wade in August, but is a raging torrent in June.  I fished the Stillwater last August, and it was a pretty gentle river at the time, but has a reputation for killing even expert whitewater kayakers during higher water. This is a broad generalization, but seems to be true for most of the rivers that I fish:  The downstream section is big, flat, and slow;  flows through a wide flat valley with a major highway running nearby, produces the biggest fish, and attracts the most fishermen, and is featured regularly in the flyfishing magazines.  The land is mostly privately owned, but there is usually good public access. The upper section is steeper, faster, and has more whitewater.  It is probably on Forest Service land, but it may be tricky finding a public access point. The fish are smaller and easier to catch, and you have to drive on some bad gravel road and possibly do some hiking to get to the river, so not as many fisherman (or photographers) get there. So anyway, if whitewater is what you like, you can find it on most of the rivers if you know where to look. Kevin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.   The absence of rapids is obvious.  In fact, in most of the pix, the water looks like it could be a pond or lake.  Now, I am sure there is a current, otherwise it wouldn’t be a river <g.  But I get the impression that they are slow moving.  You can even float tube some of them.  If you float tubed the Rapid River in Maine, site of this year’s roff Maine Clave, you probably would die!  <g  On much  of the Rapid, a drag free drift will last but a few seconds, but on some of this Montana water, it *looks* like you can get a big long drift.  The difference is even greater when you consider a nymph drift.  Some of the pix show riffles and moderate "fast water", but nothing like I am used to. Now, I don’t mean to start a fight — this ain’t no flame baited post.  I would like to hear from you folks that fish these waters.  I will be at the Western Clave and will probably have my youngest grandson.  I am planning on fishing all of this water, and more if we can fit it in. Dave LaCourse

Response:

I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.  

Dave, The only one I can talk about is the Henry’s Fork a.k.a. the North Fork (of the Snake).  It is a widely varying river.  It is true that there are places with slow moving water, such as on the Railroad Ranch section and much of the water upstream to Last Chance.  Above this, in Box Canyon, the water is considerably faster.  The water below Ashton Dam is not fast, but is very braided with little foam bubbles that are hard to distinguish from a white post on a parachute Adams <g.  In between these two locations you have Upper and Lower Mesa Falls, which are definitely fast!  They also provide an outstanding view, well worth the drive to see them.  There is a scenic loop off the highway between Island Park and Last Chance which will take you to the falls. I know this isn’t a definitive "fast"or "slow" answer, but the nature of the river changes frequently, depending mostly on the elevation gradient.  Much of the Henry’s Fork is wadeable, unlike the South Fork of the Snake which is a big, deep river.  If you come down to Island Park, Take a side trip to Big Springs, which is the headwaters of the Henry’s Fork.  You can drive to where the water bubbles out of the ground.  There are usually some very large trout there that you can throw worms to (no fishing allowed).  If you have any questions I can answer, let me know. Jeff

Response:

Dave,    After the rivers in Montana leave the mountains the gradient is fairly low as they flow east  Many of the rivers in Idaho have cut such deep canyons with sheer walls it scares the hell out of you when you drive over an old wooden bridge and look down. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.   The absence of rapids is obvious.  In fact, in most of the pix, the water looks like it could be a pond or lake.  Now, I am sure there is a current, otherwise it wouldn’t be a river <g.  But I get the impression that they are slow moving.  You can even float tube some of them.  If you float tubed the Rapid River in Maine, site of this year’s roff Maine Clave, you probably would die!  <g  On much  of the Rapid, a drag free drift will last but a few seconds, but on some of this Montana water, it *looks* like you can get a big long drift.  The difference is even greater when you consider a nymph drift.  Some of the pix show riffles and moderate "fast water", but nothing like I am used to. Now, I don’t mean to start a fight — this ain’t no flame baited post.  I would like to hear from you folks that fish these waters.  I will be at the Western Clave and will probably have my youngest grandson.  I am planning on fishing all of this water, and more if we can fit it in. Dave LaCourse

Response:

I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.   The absence of rapids is obvious.  In fact, in most of the pix, the water looks like it could be a pond or lake.  Now, I am sure there is a current, otherwise it wouldn’t be a river <g.  But I get the impression that they are slow moving.  You can even float tube some of them.  If you float tubed the Rapid River in Maine, site of this year’s roff Maine Clave, you probably would die!  <g  On much  of the Rapid, a drag free drift will last but a few seconds, but on some of this Montana water, it *looks* like you can get a big long drift.  The difference is even greater when you consider a nymph drift.  Some of the pix show riffles and moderate "fast water", but nothing like I am used to. Now, I don’t mean to start a fight — this ain’t no flame baited post.  I would like to hear from you folks that fish these waters.  I will be at the Western Clave and will probably have my youngest grandson.  I am planning on fishing all of this water, and more if we can fit it in. Dave LaCourse

Response:

Jeff Shriver writes:

(good descriptions deletes for brev) If you have any questions I can answer, let me know.

Thanks, Jeff.  I am facinated by what I am seeing in these books.  I’ve had them for years and never really looked at them.  Again, thanks.   Dave LaCourse

Response:

I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.

You’ve already got the right response on the Henry’s Fork from other postings.  The Madison River below Quake Lake is known as the "50 mile riffle."   It is very swift and can be difficult to wade.   The Clark Fork is a free stone river, too.  I’d say keep the float tube in the car, except for Quake Lake and Henry’s Lake.

Response:

I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large. You’ve already got the right response on the Henry’s Fork from other postings. The Madison River below Quake Lake is known as the "50 mile riffle."   It is very swift and can be difficult to wade.

I was about to post the same. I’ve fished the Madison a few times, always well past any sort of seasonal runoff, and once you get past the campground down to around Rt87 and the old Stagger Ranch section, there’s miles of bubbly stuff that can make drifting a fly a challenge. Trying to think of a section of the Rapid to compare it to…the closest I can think of is the water directly below Lower Dam up to the turn at the Summer House (and not the chub water along the north bank – I mean the roily stuff along the south bank). btw: If you don’t have one of those SOSuspenders Dave, I’d think seriously about investing in the larger one before you try wading the Madison… /daytripper

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I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers …You can even float tube some of them.

Montana rivers are slow moving? Well maybe.   Dangerously fast white water is seldom good trout habitat. But that doesn’t mean drifting or float tubing Montana rivers is is safe for beginners. Nearly every river on your list does have dangerous stretches you need to know about. Log jams and irrigation dams kill more amateur floaters than white water. Note too that drifting a river is often more dangerous at low water that at high water because you have so little room to maneuver when drifting past tangles of cottonwood logs. I see more inexperienced, fool-hardy floaters every year. During the salmon fly hatch on the Big Hole in 1979 close to 20 driftboats where sunk and bashed to shreds at Brown’s Bridge alone. — /* Sandy Pittendrigh                  –oO0  * http://montana-riverboats.com  */

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writes: Montana rivers are slow moving? Well maybe.   Dangerously fast white water is seldom good trout habitat.

Uh, where did I say it WAS good trout habitat.  From what I have seen in the River Journal books, the water IS slow moving, meadering thru meadows without very many rapids.   But that doesn’t mean drifting or float tubing Montana rivers is is safe for beginners.

Never said it was, Sandy. Never even said I was going to float tube.  If I bring my float tubes, I will used them on ponds/lakes.  What I did say was that the books show float tubers in very placid water.  Three are shown on the Clark Fork in what looks like a pond, not a raging river. Nearly every river on your list does have dangerous stretches you need to know about.

That’s why I have Warren.  <g Log jams and irrigation dams kill more amateur floaters than white water. Note too that drifting a river is often more dangerous at low water that at high water because you have so little room to maneuver when drifting past tangles of cottonwood logs. I see more inexperienced, fool-hardy floaters every year. During the salmon fly hatch on the Big Hole in 1979 close to 20 driftboats where sunk and bashed to shreds at Brown’s Bridge alone.

Dave L.  (not planning on floating anything except a home-tie)      —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free Usenet News via the Web  —–      —–  http://newsone.net/ —  Discussions on every subject. —–    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.   The absence of rapids is obvious.  In fact, in most of the pix, the water looks like it could be a pond or lake.  Now, I am sure there is a current, otherwise it wouldn’t be a river <g.  But I get the impression that they are slow moving.

Western Montana topography is characterized by what is called the Broad Valley Rockies. These glacially-carved u-shaped valleys are actually fairly easy gradient (not too steep). This results in rivers which typically are not raging torrents as some people may envision the northern Rockies. The Clark Fork (the largest of the rivers) and the Big Hole, with exceptions, are fairly ‘flat’ rivers. They are still freestone and subsequently do flood and get scary during runoff, but during the low flow times, are great rivers for getting LONG drifts with a fly. The water is moving at 3 to 5 miles an hour but it is deceiving when it is a flat stretch. With closer inspection, one will find the seams and riffles just like any other freestone, only on a larger, more subtle, scale. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

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Question:

Great idea rw, except think of the following scene; – Attractive divorcee in slinky outfit with a cocktail at the Captain Cook Hotel to young rich good looking FF guy; – " Hey, it’s the last night of our trip and we got on so well together, I thought we could have dinner and get to know each other a little better". -Rich good looking FF guy; – "Gee, I’d sure like to do that, but maybe some othertime, leave your home number for me at reception, I’ve got to respool my Abel and get some flies ready, you know it’s high tide in 30 minutes – my last chance to get a really *big* bone!"

Well, SHE wants a big bone, too. If he’s not up to the task, too bad. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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rw writes: If I were looking for a woman, which I’m not, I’d take dance classes.

Tap or ballet?  <g Dave L.

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Have you mentioned to her the Ennis Montana destination.  Say around July 21st to the 31st? Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I advised her to book vacations at elite destination fishing resorts in Alaska, the Carribean, Christmas Island, Chile, and so on. I assured her that she’d have men (single and otherwise) falling all over her, <snip

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… If I were looking for a woman, which I’m not, I’d take dance classes.

One of the world’s foremost experts in this field, our own Indian Joe, recommends the produce section of the grocery store as the best place to meet women. — Ken Fortenberry

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<snipped some … Hey, by the end of our conversation I had her interested in bonefish!

and i thought vern had the january "asadi award" wrapped up… jeff

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Well, SHE wants a big bone, too. If he’s not up to the task, too bad.

Hmmmm… Y’know I love this sport and all but that’s would not be too difficult a choice (panting). The fish will always be there but when her particular tide turns then it may never come back… I don’t thinks there’s a one here who would argue that fact… "MEN will do ANYTHING for sex (well withing reason)." I got that from a comedy routine… I dunno the actual commedian… — Michael Era

Question:

I am planning on a trip to Lake Tahoe in May ‘99.  Can anyone tell me where the hot spots (preferably rivers or streams) are in the area. What kind of flies should I use. Thanks.

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For a prognosis of the upcoming flyangling season in the Tahoe-Truckee area I’ve just posted a new report.  During the season it will provide reliable info for those planning a flyfishing trip to the North Tahoe area. Frank R. Pisciotta Thy Rod & Staff 530.587.7333 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Contact Tahoe Fly Fishing in South Lake Tahoe    530-541-8208 They also have a web site     www.tahoeflyfishing.com I stopped in their shop last week and found them to be most helpful. Regards, Chuck you won’t be fishing this area  in May – to much snowIn article I am planning on a trip to Lake Tahoe in May ‘99.  Can anyone tell me where the hot spots (preferably rivers or streams) are in the area. What kind of flies should I use. Take note that in California, tributaries to Tahoe are closed until July. Right now there is about fifteen-twenty feet of snow in the high country near Tahoe, so unless it continues to stay winter up there, I recommend that you consider stillwater possibilities. In the South Lake Tahoe Area: If you don’t mind walking a few miles, there are lots of nice small lakes in the Desolation Wilderness that might be just coming out of ice by then (but might also still be frozen, you’ll have to wait and see. Red Lake off highway 88 might have open water, and Indian Creek reservoir near the Markleeville airport will be ice-free. There are nice streams – the West fork Carson flows through an open meadow for miles around Hope Valley and the East fork through a beautiful narrow canyon below Markleeville, either one would make for a beautiful day on the stream but you will be fighting some very high water, probably. In the North Tahoe area: The Truckee river flows for about twenty miles bordered by public highways. For stillwaters, Martis Creek reservoir in Truckee might be very good then. Other tuberous possibilities not far from North Lake Tahoe Area include Boca, Stampede and little Milton reservoirs.  The connecting stream near Boca and Stampede reservoirs might be fishable. Mark Vinsel angler artist www.vinsel.com Mark Vinsel    http://www.newsfeeds.com/       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

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you won’t be fishing this area  in May – to much snowIn article – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am planning on a trip to Lake Tahoe in May ‘99.  Can anyone tell me where the hot spots (preferably rivers or streams) are in the area. What kind of flies should I use. Take note that in California, tributaries to Tahoe are closed until July. Right now there is about fifteen-twenty feet of snow in the high country near Tahoe, so unless it continues to stay winter up there, I recommend that you consider stillwater possibilities. In the South Lake Tahoe Area: If you don’t mind walking a few miles, there are lots of nice small lakes in the Desolation Wilderness that might be just coming out of ice by then (but might also still be frozen, you’ll have to wait and see. Red Lake off highway 88 might have open water, and Indian Creek reservoir near the Markleeville airport will be ice-free. There are nice streams – the West fork Carson flows through an open meadow for miles around Hope Valley and the East fork through a beautiful narrow canyon below Markleeville, either one would make for a beautiful day on the stream but you will be fighting some very high water, probably. In the North Tahoe area: The Truckee river flows for about twenty miles bordered by public highways. For stillwaters, Martis Creek reservoir in Truckee might be very good then. Other tuberous possibilities not far from North Lake Tahoe Area include Boca, Stampede and little Milton reservoirs.  The connecting stream near Boca and Stampede reservoirs might be fishable. Mark Vinsel angler artist www.vinsel.com Mark Vinsel

    http://www.newsfeeds.com/       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

Response:

Contact Tahoe Fly Fishing in South Lake Tahoe         530-541-8208 They also have a web site          www.tahoeflyfishing.com I stopped in their shop last week and found them to be most helpful. Regards, Chuck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you won’t be fishing this area  in May – to much snowIn article I am planning on a trip to Lake Tahoe in May ‘99.  Can anyone tell me where the hot spots (preferably rivers or streams) are in the area. What kind of flies should I use. Take note that in California, tributaries to Tahoe are closed until July. Right now there is about fifteen-twenty feet of snow in the high country near Tahoe, so unless it continues to stay winter up there, I recommend that you consider stillwater possibilities. In the South Lake Tahoe Area: If you don’t mind walking a few miles, there are lots of nice small lakes in the Desolation Wilderness that might be just coming out of ice by then (but might also still be frozen, you’ll have to wait and see. Red Lake off highway 88 might have open water, and Indian Creek reservoir near the Markleeville airport will be ice-free. There are nice streams – the West fork Carson flows through an open meadow for miles around Hope Valley and the East fork through a beautiful narrow canyon below Markleeville, either one would make for a beautiful day on the stream but you will be fighting some very high water, probably. In the North Tahoe area: The Truckee river flows for about twenty miles bordered by public highways. For stillwaters, Martis Creek reservoir in Truckee might be very good then. Other tuberous possibilities not far from North Lake Tahoe Area include Boca, Stampede and little Milton reservoirs.  The connecting stream near Boca and Stampede reservoirs might be fishable. Mark Vinsel angler artist www.vinsel.com Mark Vinsel    http://www.newsfeeds.com/       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

Response:

I am planning on a trip to Lake Tahoe in May ‘99.  Can anyone tell me where the hot spots (preferably rivers or streams) are in the area. What kind of flies should I use.

Take note that in California, tributaries to Tahoe are closed until July. Right now there is about fifteen-twenty feet of snow in the high country near Tahoe, so unless it continues to stay winter up there, I recommend that you consider stillwater possibilities. In the South Lake Tahoe Area: If you don’t mind walking a few miles, there are lots of nice small lakes in the Desolation Wilderness that might be just coming out of ice by then (but might also still be frozen, you’ll have to wait and see. Red Lake off highway 88 might have open water, and Indian Creek reservoir near the Markleeville airport will be ice-free. There are nice streams – the West fork Carson flows through an open meadow for miles around Hope Valley and the East fork through a beautiful narrow canyon below Markleeville, either one would make for a beautiful day on the stream but you will be fighting some very high water, probably. In the North Tahoe area: The Truckee river flows for about twenty miles bordered by public highways. For stillwaters, Martis Creek reservoir in Truckee might be very good then. Other tuberous possibilities not far from North Lake Tahoe Area include Boca, Stampede and little Milton reservoirs.  The connecting stream near Boca and Stampede reservoirs might be fishable. Mark Vinsel angler artist www.vinsel.com Mark Vinsel

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Question:

 Other tests I’ve seen have given similar numbers. While there may  be some variation  of actual knot strength – and perhaps knots change relative positions,  there relative strength of the knots is consistent in all tests I’ve  seen; a double or triple surgeon tests stronger than a blood knot. A trilene  knot is stronger than clinch knot. A George Harvey knot is stronger than  a turl knot. etc etc.

Agreed.  The general conclusion they state about terminal knots is that the knots that pass twice through the eye are stronger than those that pass only once. I personally use a 6 barrel blood knot because it is straight and easy to tie, and a trilene knot because it is easy to tie and strong. cheers,         -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html NOTICE: DO NOT ADD MY NAME TO _ANY_ MAILING LISTS.  

Response:

Ralph Cutter published some similar results in this ng some months back. Other tests I’ve seen have given similar numbers. While there may be some variation of actual knot strength – and perhaps knots change relative positions, there relative strength of the knots is consistent in all tests I’ve seen; a double or triple surgeon tests stronger than a blood knot. A trilene knot is stronger than clinch knot. A George Harvey knot is stronger than a turl knot. etc etc. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – EXPLANATION:  Column "AA" was done with a high tensile strength leader material that is,  less stretch (Fenwick Extra Strong Formula).  Column "BB" was done with a  high energy to break that is, more stretch (Climax Freshwater Tippet/Trout)  Each knot tied 15 times with each material (wet) using 6X but are valid up  to 15#.  Strengths determined by a laboratory instrument, and were done  according to the "American Standard Testing Methods". RESULTS:                               AA         BB                              —-       —- TERMINAL KNOTS:    George Harvey’s Knot      93.7%      96.4%    Improved Clinch Knot      90.9%      86.2%    Orvis Knot                93.6%      92.9%    Palomar Knot             100.0%     100.0%    Trilene Knot             100.0%     100.0%    Turle Knot                72.7%      85.7%    Uni Knot                  75.8%      92.9% LINE-TO-LINE:    Blood Knot (4 barrels)    69.7%      79.3%    Blood Knot (6 barrels)    78.1%      91.2%    Triple Surgeon’s Knot     96.9%      98.3%    Surgeons’s Loop           87.9%      96.9% OTHER:    Overhand Knot             72.7%      89.7% SOURCE:  Bernie Taylor, "Testing Knots".  Fly Fisherman, Dec 1995 pp 52-55, 82-83. — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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There has been much discussion about knot strength.  The following is a summary of the results of a knot strength test published in Fly Fisherman magazine, Dec 1995. I’d welcome the results of other published tests. -tgades EXPLANATION:   Column "AA" was done with a high tensile strength leader material that is,   less stretch (Fenwick Extra Strong Formula).  Column "BB" was done with a   high energy to break that is, more stretch (Climax Freshwater Tippet/Trout)   Each knot tied 15 times with each material (wet) using 6X but are valid up   to 15#.  Strengths determined by a laboratory instrument, and were done   according to the "American Standard Testing Methods". RESULTS:                                AA         BB                               —-       —-  TERMINAL KNOTS:     George Harvey’s Knot      93.7%      96.4%     Improved Clinch Knot      90.9%      86.2%     Orvis Knot                93.6%      92.9%     Palomar Knot             100.0%     100.0%     Trilene Knot             100.0%     100.0%     Turle Knot                72.7%      85.7%     Uni Knot                  75.8%      92.9%  LINE-TO-LINE:     Blood Knot (4 barrels)    69.7%      79.3%     Blood Knot (6 barrels)    78.1%      91.2%     Triple Surgeon’s Knot     96.9%      98.3%     Surgeons’s Loop           87.9%      96.9%  OTHER:     Overhand Knot             72.7%      89.7% SOURCE:   Bernie Taylor, "Testing Knots".  Fly Fisherman, Dec 1995 pp 52-55, 82-83. — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

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Question:

Hello, all… I am leaving for Minnesota (from Michigan) this Saturday morning on a week fishing & camping trip. Can anyone tell me good places for fly-fishing?  Good places for trout, smallmouth bass, etc… I am species indifferent.

Without knowing where you are going to be, I would have to say that anywhere is just fine. 14,000 lakes are filled with bass and sunnies galore.  Carp too, if you can get one. There are plenty of rivers offering smallies, drum, white bass, etc. The trout live in the northeast area above Duluth and also in the southeast along the Whitewater and Root river systems. Have fun and leave a few for the locals. Jon Russell FlyFish Minnesota

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Hello, all… I am leaving for Minnesota (from Michigan) this Saturday morning on a week fishing & camping trip. Can anyone tell me good places for fly-fishing?  Good places for trout, smallmouth bass, etc… I am species indifferent. Thanks, –Kris Jacobs Kalamazoo, MI

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: Hello, all… I am leaving for Minnesota (from Michigan) this Saturday : morning on a week fishing & camping trip. : Can anyone tell me good places for fly-fishing?  Good places for trout, : smallmouth bass, etc… I am species indifferent. Geez….. That state is a fair sized piece of real estate! How far are you willing to drive?  Could you be a little more particular about which corner your gonna be in? If it were up to me, I’d go straight to the BWCA.  But then again, I’m gonna be there next month. — Jon Porter

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Question:

Can anyone provide information of good fly fishing spots in and around Ithaca New York?   Thanks GDO

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Can anyone provide information of good fly fishing spots in and around Ithaca New York?   Thanks GDO

I have made the three – plus hour trip out to Ithaca from Albany a few times to fish for landlocked salmon, brown trout, and rainbow trout in the spring and fall.  Mostly I have stuck to Fall Creek, but I have also fished Salmon Creek which is a short drive from Ithaca.  Fall Creek flows right through Ithaca, and some of the best fishing can be in the large pool at the base of the magnificent waterfall about 1.5 miles upstream from where the creek pours into Cayuga Lake.  For info on what when where why etc. I suggest the book "Good Fishing in Western New York"…I think it is available from Countryman Press. Right now it may be a little early for the rainbows, but browns and salmon may be in.  It’s been a dry fall around here, though, and I haven’t heard anything great about the fishing in the Finger Lakes tribs.  Of course, if you live in the area it’s no big deal to check it out…if you hear anything about the salmon run, please post it.  I am desperate to catch a landlock on my flyrod!!! Paul DiConza     NY Capital District Angler

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