Question:

What type of reel do you use?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Id like my grandkids to be able to know at least a tiny bit of the land is still wild, and the night sky is still filled with many stars. If you want your grandkids to know that, don’t have any kids… This isn’t a joke, it is a solution to the problem you have with our world as it is. Dale Anderson Durango, Colorado

Response:

\ If you want your grandkids to know that, don’t have any kids… This isn’t a joke, it is a solution to the problem you have with our world as it is.\ The problem isnt having one or two children. The problem is immigration and having 5 children at a pop similar to other situations in third wolrd countries.

So do we owe you a belated congratulations?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – \ If you want your grandkids to know that, don’t have any kids… This isn’t a joke, it is a solution to the problem you have with our world as it is.\ The problem isnt having one or two children. The problem is immigration and having 5 children at a pop similar to other situations in third wolrd countries. So do we owe you a belated congratulations?

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 The problem isnt having one or two children. The problem is immigration and having 5 children at a pop similar to other situations in third wolrd countries.

So, you’re anti-immigrant now? Racist asshole. – — —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE9CqajpXxsK3tAEWcRApNfAJ9GjU1xKgedUgk7OEPnUcyfttyBWACgqHDc 8Xa3lgIrwVv8nMhza7WIcqA= =CkA4 —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

Response:

Chev or Ford?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – \ Most Americans, being normal people who worship the Creator in some manner or another, rather than the creations, don’t know what a "roadless rule" is, let alone support it.\ The creator and it’s creations are one in the same.  who are you to judge? And you don’t speak for the majority of Americans you right wing fascist. Of course, you and your selfish, gluttony kind want to use up everything here because "it doesnt matter. We are all going to a better place in the end". Foolish. \Why don’t you go live in the damn woods and worship your damn trees and leave normal people alone?  H Y P O C R I T E.\ I dont worship trees, and I advocate logging. What I dont advocate is selfish lazy bastards who want to European-ize America making every last corenr tame and Walmartized. Id like my grandkids to be able to know at least a tiny bit of the land is still wild, and the night sky is still filled with many stars. I just want a little balance. \" The greatest thing about a tree god created is what man can do with it after it is cut down".   – Rush Limbaugh \ Brilliant. Never mind trees provide us with oxygen and a cooling effect on our climate. You quote true idiocy.

Response:

forcing boogeyman religion on someone. my creator is between my legs

Hey, wow, that’s pretty darned good……except you misspelled "cheeks". Wolfgang interesting name, is that portugese?

Response:

\ If you want your grandkids to know that, don’t have any kids… This isn’t a joke, it is a solution to the problem you have with our world as it is.\

The problem isnt having one or two children. The problem is immigration and having 5 children at a pop similar to other situations in third wolrd countries. But I do see your point.

Response:

forcing boogeyman religion on someone. my creator is between my legs

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – \ Most Americans, being normal people who worship the Creator in some manner or another, rather than the creations, don’t know what a "roadless rule" is, let alone support it.\ The creator and it’s creations are one in the same.  who are you to judge? And you don’t speak for the majority of Americans you right wing fascist. Of course, you and your selfish, gluttony kind want to use up everything here because "it doesnt matter. We are all going to a better place in the end". Foolish. \Why don’t you go live in the damn woods and worship your damn trees and leave normal people alone?  H Y P O C R I T E.\ I dont worship trees, and I advocate logging. What I dont advocate is selfish lazy bastards who want to European-ize America making every last corenr tame and Walmartized. Id like my grandkids to be able to know at least a tiny bit of the land is still wild, and the night sky is still filled with many stars. I just want a little balance. \" The greatest thing about a tree god created is what man can do with it after it is cut down".   – Rush Limbaugh \ Brilliant. Never mind trees provide us with oxygen and a cooling effect on our climate. You quote true idiocy.

Response:

Id like my grandkids to be able to know at least a tiny bit of the land is still wild, and the night sky is still filled with many stars.

If you want your grandkids to know that, don’t have any kids… This isn’t a joke, it is a solution to the problem you have with our world as it is. Dale Anderson Durango, Colorado

Response:

\ Most Americans, being normal people who worship the Creator in some manner or another, rather than the creations, don’t know what a "roadless rule" is, let alone support it.\

The creator and it’s creations are one in the same.  who are you to judge? And you don’t speak for the majority of Americans you right wing fascist. Of course, you and your selfish, gluttony kind want to use up everything here because "it doesnt matter. We are all going to a better place in the end". Foolish. \Why don’t you go live in the damn woods and worship your damn trees and leave normal people alone?  H Y P O C R I T E.\

I dont worship trees, and I advocate logging. What I dont advocate is selfish lazy bastards who want to European-ize America making every last corenr tame and Walmartized. Id like my grandkids to be able to know at least a tiny bit of the land is still wild, and the night sky is still filled with many stars. I just want a little balance. \" The greatest thing about a tree god created is what man can do with it after it is cut down".   – Rush Limbaugh \ Brilliant. Never mind trees provide us with oxygen and a cooling effect on our climate. You quote true idiocy.

Response:

To anyone that replies to this, please remove rec.outdoors.fishing.fly from the send to list.

Response:

Hearing the overwhelming voice of the American people,  a bi-partisan bill was introduced to enact the Roadless Rule in law. The bill already  has 172 votes in the house.  Im glad to see SOME politicians still care about the wishes of the people of America.

OK, I’ll bite.  What’s a roadless rule?  -Dave — On hotmail dot com, I am user "junknothankyou".

Response:

Hearing the overwhelming voice of the American people,  a bi-partisan bill was introduced to enact the Roadless Rule in law. The bill already  has 172 votes in the house.  Im glad to see SOME politicians still care about the wishes of the people of America. Also, Bush again tries to make taxpayers  pay for corporate pollution. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2444-2002Jun5.html do Nothing Bush: http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/06/opinion/06HERB.html Air Force Col suspended for bad mouthing Bush: http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/3393351.htm — Sent by  arvon45 from yahoo included in com This is a spam protected message. Please answer with reference header. Posted via http://www.usenet-replayer.com/cgi/content/new

Response:

Question:

I went in midaugust.  Pretty slow.  Lost one fish and two missed strikes in 2.5 days of fishing.  A friend caught 4 fish in 3 days, and a guy who was a bigtime flyfishing bum and former snake river guide had three. check with doaks for latest. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Looking for info on the Atlantic Salmon run on the Miramichi River in New Brunswick this September. How are the fish running ? I was suppose to go this week but a bad back problem prevented me from going. — Regards, Robert E. "Bob" Buckley Norwich Lincoln Mercury

Response:

I fished it once for a week in early October. Caught one small fish. My guide told me that his favorite time was the first two weeks of July. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com   Robert,   Have a look at the angling reports on Doak’s website,   http://www.wwdoak.com/open.htm   A bit of salemanship in some of the wording, but the reports and pictures very probably accurate.   Regards,   Yuji Sakuma     Looking for info on the Atlantic Salmon run on the Miramichi River in New     Brunswick this September. How are the fish running ? I was suppose to go     this week but a bad back problem prevented me from going.     —     Regards,     Robert E. "Bob" Buckley     Norwich Lincoln Mercury

Response:

Looking for info on the Atlantic Salmon run on the Miramichi River in New Brunswick this September. How are the fish running ? I was suppose to go this week but a bad back problem prevented me from going. — Regards, Robert E. "Bob" Buckley Norwich Lincoln Mercury

Friend sof mine are on th eMiramichi this week. You can find up to date information at http://www.salmonanglersonline.com/index.html Enjoy Tom. — Thomas Hackmann "Live simply, so that others may simply live." To reply delete XPLEASENOSPAMX from email address.

Response:

Looking for info on the Atlantic Salmon run on the Miramichi River in New Brunswick this September. How are the fish running ? I was suppose to go this week but a bad back problem prevented me from going.: This may be a late reply, but I fish the Little Southwest and Northwest Miramichi rivers every weekend.  They have been OK.  The LSW has generally been better.  The Main Southwest by all accounts is full of fish right now.   The water is low, and with a bit of rain the fishing should be great for the last two weeks. JB

Response:

Looking for info on the Atlantic Salmon run on the Miramichi River in New Brunswick this September. How are the fish running ? I was suppose to go this week but a bad back problem prevented me from going. — Regards, Robert E. "Bob" Buckley Norwich Lincoln Mercury

Response:

Robert, Have a look at the angling reports on Doak’s website, http://www.wwdoak.com/open.htm A bit of salemanship in some of the wording, but the reports and pictures very probably accurate. Regards, Yuji Sakuma – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Looking for info on the Atlantic Salmon run on the Miramichi River in New Brunswick this September. How are the fish running ? I was suppose to go this week but a bad back problem prevented me from going. — Regards, Robert E. "Bob" Buckley Norwich Lincoln Mercury

Response:

Question:

Great post!  Sounds like a great trip… Flying in the mountains sounds too cool to this "flat-lander".   Shoot, all we worry about hitting around here are big antennas.   Someday… What a shame about the "party-campers".   Speaking as someone who has both inflicted that treatment on others (in my younger days, many moons ago), and as someone who has had it inflicted on him (in more recent years), I can sympathize with your plight. And I guarantee you that your departure probably caused great agony!  :) An aside:  After one particularly awful night a few years ago, spent camping next to people who partied loudly ALL night long, we discovered the PERFECT revenge: My then-4-year-old son’s "Big Wheel" tricycle! The sound of that plastic wheel scraping over the gravel-covered ashpalt road was the most annoying sound you can imagine — and we let him ride up and down continually in front of their tents — starting at 6:30 AM! "Revenge is a dish best served cold…" — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Warrior N33431

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Finally, my turn for some vacation time.  First one since 1997.  Planned to depart Aug 4 for a bit of fishing in Idaho… didn’t get away until Sunday the 6th.   North from SLC to Hailey Idaho (Sun Valley) for fuel. Nice service, took courtesy car into town and got a fishing license, back in the air in 1:15.  First destination was Graham USFS strip (U45) – looked beautiful in the "Fly Idaho" book.  There was apparently a fire in there either last year or the year before.  Nothing now but snags on barren hillsides, not even a tree for shade to pitch a tent under. Passed it by, landed at Warm Springs (0U1).  There is a nice camping area provided by Idaho State Aeronautics (paid for with aeronautics funds, supposedly reserved for pilots).  Bad news – all three areas were taken up by some people who had driven in there for free camping, complete with loud party, boom box, dogs (nice little ones like a rottweiler and a chow which were aggressive and not leashed).  We ended up camping on the other side of the strip in a not so nice place.  Got up early and departed (Monday) – hope the hangovers got full effect of the take-off     :–)     Someday, I want to go back there and hike to the hot springs (about

Question:

The only sports are mountain climbing, auto racing and bull fighting.  All the rest are games according to EH.  fwiw Dave L.

when did ernie harrison say that? walt — Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com http://auctions.yahoo.com/booth/ezflyfish_com Used, Rare, & Out-of-Print Books: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

Response:

Salmon Fly writes: (snip) From then on it’s been 22 dancers and a couple of zebras and It’s rather funny to watch. But’ it’s not a sport. The only sports are mountain climbing, auto racing and bull fighting.  All the rest are games according to EH.  fwiw Dave L.

Auto Racing. Now there is the all american sport. It Loud, Senseless and wastes fossil fuels. It doesn’t get any more american than that.

Response:

I thought the officials on the field signaled the play to be a completed catch. Isn’t the rule that in the last 2 minutes of a 1/2 or the game, only the ‘upstairs re-play reviewers’ can call for a time out for a replay?

yup. and funny how the most "inconclusive" (it was a gd clean catch) replay of the year gets overturned…. like i said, FIX! WALT — Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com http://auctions.yahoo.com/booth/ezflyfish_com Used, Rare, & Out-of-Print Books: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

Response:

Auto Racing. Now there is the all american sport. It Loud, Senseless and wastes fossil fuels. It doesn’t get any more american than that.

You’ve never fished Lake of the Ozarks, have you? Opt out == cop-out. What’s so hard to understand?

Response:

go vikings, they are like the steelhead runs on lake superiors north shore, slowly going downhill     tony of mn

I hear ya tony.  I’m not a vikes fan, but I really wanted them to go this year.  They deserved to go last year, but got screwed by those flash-in-the-pan falcons that ruined the superbowl. — Levi "who’s counting the days to the superbowl, even if waldo does think it’s fixed." Life is anything that dies when you stomp on it.                                                         — Dave Barry

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Would impeachment work?  It wasn’t effective on Clinton, but then Jerry Jones doesn’t have perfect hair.

Jimmy Johnson had perfect hair, but it didn’t do him any good. Tom Landry had no hair so he wore a hat, but it didn’t help. He’s gone. I hate the frigging Cowboys. I saw Any Given Sunday today. Definitely worth the price of a ticket, even if the script was formulaic. Stone really knows the the technique of movie making. One funny thing was that the NFL refused to cooperate with Stone so he had to make up all the names of the football teams. They all sounded like the names of condoms. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

go vikings, they are like the steelhead runs on lake superiors north shore, slowly going downhill    tony of mn

        only on roff:  a haiku written about a losing football team. how good is that? wayno

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Snipped for no real reason…. r, no quandry for me, everyone knows i drink busch, oh, ummm, guess i’ll have to switch to pabst

Someone actually READS my stuff?  Sorry, I basically just ramble on in my own little world…..I thought I’d already made most killfiles…. <G R

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school quarterback being booed by his pastor. The NFL no longer generates this kind of interest in the game. Big Dale

Response:

Salmon Fly writes: Auto Racing. Now there is the all american sport. It Loud, Senseless and wastes fossil fuels. It doesn’t get any more american than that.

When EH said that, he wasn’t speaking of American racing, but of European and international. Dave L.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – am i the only one who witnessed the big fix on tv? I don’t think I’ve ever been so angry in my life. Reversing a call on the field, by the NFL refs upstairs. FIX! From this moment in my life, I will never watch nor support another NFL game or anyone that sponsors the NFL. Walt Walt – I’m with ya 100% on replays plus I’ll go further and ban timeouts and plays called in from the sidelines.  Let the players on the field decide the outcome of a game – that’s where the drama is. Do you want to see a quarterback disect a defence?  A linebacker corps panic a QB into jelly?  Or watch a coach think or a ref peer into a monitor?   Nothing worse than watching an offence ram the ball down field late in a close game and some f****er calls a time out or a replay.  Is this a spectator sport or a snooze fest?    Last year Flutie ran the offence in Buffalo and win or lose, they were fun to watch.  This year, the ego weenie coaches ran everything and ZZZZZZZZZZ.  The CFL used to have games that worked this way but the f***ing brain trust running it, decided that declining fan support meant that they had to imitate the NFL  Now we have timeouts, probably replays next season, and ego weenie coaches trying to run everything. Talk about f***ing up a great game.  Play the f***ing game on the field!!!! disgruntled football fan Peter

i’m with ya peter. i just hope subaru doesn’t sponsor nfl stuff or i’m in deep ka-ka with marie. it would be kinda hard explaining a yugo to her b/c of some silly football game. dale, no one else wants him paul, rugby? r, no quandry for me, everyone knows i drink busch, oh, ummm, guess i’ll have to switch to pabst allan, "and this was, called correctly by the officials" … on the field? levi, go back to sleep walt ps… i thought this group was rough…let me tell ya, we’re pussies compared to those boyos over at the tampa bay buc newsgroup this eve — Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com http://auctions.yahoo.com/booth/ezflyfish_com Used, Rare, & Out-of-Print Books: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

Response:

Salmon Fly writes:

(snip) From then on it’s been 22 dancers and a couple of zebras and It’s rather funny to watch. But’ it’s not a sport.

The only sports are mountain climbing, auto racing and bull fighting.  All the rest are games according to EH.  fwiw Dave L.

Response:

No, Walt you’re not the only one. After college I started playing Rugby. A much saner and safer sport. For years I wouldn’t watch football because it was so rediculous. I started playing rugby about the same time as the instant replay wich made it seem even worse. A few years ago a friend invited me over to watch a game and I went. Sometime during the game the topic got to the state of the sport to which he replied. This isn’t a sport. It’s made for TV sensationalism to generate revenues for the network. Kind of like 60 Minutes or pro wrestling. From then on it’s been 22 dancers and a couple of zebras and It’s rather funny to watch. But’ it’s not a sport. Paul And this has nothing to do with the local team.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – am i the only one who witnessed the big fix on tv? I don’t think I’ve ever been so angry in my life. Reversing a call on the field, by the NFL refs upstairs. FIX! From this moment in my life, I will never watch nor support another NFL game or anyone that sponsors the NFL. Walt

Response:

am i the only one who witnessed the big fix on tv?  snippings < FIX!   . Walt

AMEN brother. If that was an incomplete pass then so was the goddamn St. Louis touchdown reception. Tampa was robbed, and I’m a Redskin fan. In the Tampa/Skins game Dan Turks’ blown snap was a little funny too. Didn’t think about that till I saw a tape of the game and the shot of the Turk brothers on the sideline grinning. Bob Before you buy.

Response:

[whining snipped] <g From this moment in my life, I will never watch nor support another NFL game or anyone that sponsors the NFL.

Well, gee, let’s hope Hardy, Lamson, Courtland et al don’t ever decide to be the official fly-fishing gear provider of the NFL. Talk about yer conflict of interest… –Steve

Response:

am i the only one who witnessed the big fix on tv? I don’t think I’ve ever been so angry in my life. Reversing a call on the field, by the NFL refs upstairs. FIX! From this moment in my life, I will never watch nor support another NFL game or anyone that sponsors the NFL. Walt

Response:

am i the only one who witnessed the big fix on tv?

Huh?  I assume you are talking about the St. Louis/Tampa Bay game?  I dozed off in the second half of the fourth quarter.  You do realize that part of the new instant replay policy is that the refs upstairs can challenge a call on the field in the final two minutes of the 2nd and 4th quarters?  Is that what happened? — Levi Life is anything that dies when you stomp on it.                                                         — Dave Barry

Response:

am i the only one who witnessed the big fix on tv? I don’t think I’ve ever been so angry in my life. Reversing a call on the field, by the NFL refs upstairs. FIX! From this moment in my life, I will never watch nor support another NFL game or anyone that sponsors the NFL. Walt

That solves your Budweiser quandary…. <G R

Response:

am i the only one who witnessed the big fix on tv? I don’t think I’ve ever been so angry in my life. Reversing a call on the field, by the NFL refs upstairs. FIX! From this moment in my life, I will never watch nor support another NFL game or anyone that sponsors the NFL. Walt

Walt – I’m with ya 100% on replays plus I’ll go further and ban timeouts and plays called in from the sidelines.  Let the players on the field decide the outcome of a game – that’s where the drama is. Do you want to see a quarterback disect a defence?  A linebacker corps panic a QB into jelly?  Or watch a coach think or a ref peer into a monitor?   Nothing worse than watching an offence ram the ball down field late in a close game and some f****er calls a time out or a replay.  Is this a spectator sport or a snooze fest?    Last year Flutie ran the offence in Buffalo and win or lose, they were fun to watch.  This year, the ego weenie coaches ran everything and ZZZZZZZZZZ.  The CFL used to have games that worked this way but the f***ing brain trust running it, decided that declining fan support meant that they had to imitate the NFL  Now we have timeouts, probably replays next season, and ego weenie coaches trying to run everything. Talk about f***ing up a great game.  Play the f***ing game on the field!!!! disgruntled football fan Peter

Response:

another NFL game or anyone that sponsors the NFL. Walt

That sucked almost as much as being a Cowboys fan. Since it appears you are getting totaly out of the NFL could you please advise as to how we can fire the Cowboy’s owner? Big Dale

Response:

As I understand the re-play rule, to overturn a field call, the reviewer must see clear evidence that the play was called incorrectly. If the re-play official saw clear evidence he/she must have seen something that no one else did, not even Madden & Summerall. Don’t know if any one call alters the outcome but that review was b.s. No I’m not a Tampa Bay or a St. Louis fan (actually, I root for the Giants). Just a fan who enjoys a good game, and this was, called correctly by the officials.

Response:

I thought the officials on the field signaled the play to be a completed catch. Isn’t the rule that in the last 2 minutes of a 1/2 or the game, only the ‘upstairs re-play reviewers’ can call for a time out for a replay?

Response:

Would impeachment work?  It wasn’t effective on Clinton, but then Jerry Jones doesn’t have perfect hair. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – another NFL game or anyone that sponsors the NFL. Walt That sucked almost as much as being a Cowboys fan. Since it appears you are getting totaly out of the NFL could you please advise as to how we can fire the Cowboy’s owner? Big Dale

Response:

go vikings, they are like the steelhead runs on lake superiors north shore, slowly going downhill     tony of mn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – am i the only one who witnessed the big fix on tv?  snippings < FIX!   . Walt AMEN brother. If that was an incomplete pass then so was the goddamn St. Louis touchdown reception. Tampa was robbed, and I’m a Redskin fan. In the Tampa/Skins game Dan Turks’ blown snap was a little funny too. Didn’t think about that till I saw a tape of the game and the shot of the Turk brothers on the sideline grinning. Bob Before you buy.

Response:

am i the only one who witnessed the big fix on tv? I don’t think I’ve ever been so angry in my life. Reversing a call on the field, by the NFL refs upstairs. FIX! From this moment in my life, I will never watch nor support another NFL game or anyone that sponsors the NFL. Walt

I was wondering if a certain Floridian-by-birth-if-not-by-nature was blowing his cookies this afternoon ;^) I think they blew that call, but I’m not as sure that it would have made any difference. They were struggling and I don’t think they had enough time (or momentum) to score. /daytripper (we might get a decent Superbowl for a friggin’ change!)

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip If we’re going to split rec.boats.paddling (and rec.boats.canoing *is* a split despite the ambigous naming) the topic with the biggest chuck of traffic should be split off (whitewater) and a misc group created for everything else. For example, my proposal would be: rec.boats.paddling.whitewater rec.boats.paddling.flatwater rec.boats.paddling.misc even though I would still prefer that everything remains as it is, in one newsgroup. John, Creating rec.boats.paddling.whitewater and leaving "everyone else" in R.B.P is probably a more viable solution. 1) It’s less work than creating 3 new groups

Not really. All three groups could be proposed in the same RFD. 2) It’s less exclusive: ww postys would go to R.B.P.W and EVERYTHING else would go to R.B.P

The primary reason that I suggested using .misc is that a strong precedent has been set using this convention and it would likely be backed by Tale (David Lawrence) and other new.group gurus. 3) The volumes would be "balanced" between the groups 4) There wouldn’t be any arguments about where Sea Kayaks, S-O-T’s, etc would go

per my suggestion, anything that was ambiguous would go into r.b.p.misc. r.b.p. would only exist as a hierarchy, but not as a group.   This has been done many times before. IMHO, The creation of a WW-only group is the "best" solution to this issue.

I agree, but if a change is going to be made, following conventional usenet naming conventions would be very advantagous as far as getting support form outside the paddling newsgroups. John Fereira Stop Unsolicited Commercial Email – Join CAUCE (http://www.cauce.org) Support HR 1748, the anti-spam bill.

Response:

John, Your proposal is making excellent sense. Dan Amerman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip If we’re going to split rec.boats.paddling (and rec.boats.canoing *is* a split despite the ambigous naming) the topic with the biggest chuck of traffic should be split off (whitewater) and a misc group created for everything else. For example, my proposal would be: rec.boats.paddling.whitewater rec.boats.paddling.flatwater rec.boats.paddling.misc even though I would still prefer that everything remains as it is, in one newsgroup. John, Creating rec.boats.paddling.whitewater and leaving "everyone else" in R.B.P is probably a more viable solution. 1) It’s less work than creating 3 new groups Not really. All three groups could be proposed in the same RFD. 2) It’s less exclusive: ww postys would go to R.B.P.W and EVERYTHING else would go to R.B.P The primary reason that I suggested using .misc is that a strong precedent has been set using this convention and it would likely be backed by Tale (David Lawrence) and other new.group gurus. 3) The volumes would be "balanced" between the groups 4) There wouldn’t be any arguments about where Sea Kayaks, S-O-T’s, etc would go per my suggestion, anything that was ambiguous would go into r.b.p.misc. r.b.p. would only exist as a hierarchy, but not as a group.   This has been done many times before. IMHO, The creation of a WW-only group is the "best" solution to this issue. I agree, but if a change is going to be made, following conventional usenet naming conventions would be very advantagous as far as getting support form outside the paddling newsgroups. John Fereira Stop Unsolicited Commercial Email – Join CAUCE (http://www.cauce.org) Support HR 1748, the anti-spam bill.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip If we’re going to split rec.boats.paddling (and rec.boats.canoing *is* a split despite the ambigous naming) the topic with the biggest chuck of traffic should be split off (whitewater) and a misc group created for everything else. For example, my proposal would be: rec.boats.paddling.whitewater rec.boats.paddling.flatwater rec.boats.paddling.misc even though I would still prefer that everything remains as it is, in one newsgroup.

John, Creating rec.boats.paddling.whitewater and leaving "everyone else" in R.B.P is probably a more viable solution. 1) It’s less work than creating 3 new groups 2) It’s less exclusive: ww postys would go to R.B.P.W and EVERYTHING else would go to R.B.P 3) The volumes would be "balanced" between the groups 4) There wouldn’t be any arguments about where Sea Kayaks, S-O-T’s, etc would go IMHO, The creation of a WW-only group is the "best" solution to this issue.

Response:

If we’re going to split rec.boats.paddling (and rec.boats.canoing *is* a split despite the ambigous naming) the topic with the biggest chuck of traffic should be split off (whitewater) and a misc group created for everything else. For example, my proposal would be: rec.boats.paddling.whitewater rec.boats.paddling.flatwater rec.boats.paddling.misc even though I would still prefer that everything remains as it is, in one newsgroup.

John, thank you for all the assistance you have been, and will continue to be in these discussions. Your long experience with these matters shows through, as does your wisdom. They are appreciated, even if we don’t necessarily agree. — Wes — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Surf Usenet at home, on the road, and by email — always at Talkway.

Response:

Gregg, I am just curious, how long does it take you to scan the thread titles?

Seconds. "Hooked on Phonics" changed my life. Try it.

Response:

I have to disagree with the proposal to split this group, <snip                    …[I}  would miss many of 'characters' crochets by having to go back and forth between NG's. ...

In my experience, the interesting people continue to post to both groups (with some few exceptions.) It is easy enough to filter *for* these interesting people in your less-read group and just get headers for a quick scan of everything else. Mark me down for a rational split;   r.b.paddle.whitewater and optionally:  r.b.paddle.flatwater  r.b.paddle.misc (with r.b.paddle becoming a hierarchy-only) --   --Pete http://www.msen.com/~pwmeek/

Response:

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - John, Creating rec.boats.paddling.whitewater and leaving "everyone else" in R.B.P is probably a more viable solution. 1) It's less work than creating 3 new groups 2) It's less exclusive: ww postys would go to R.B.P.W and EVERYTHING else would go to R.B.P 3) The volumes would be "balanced" between the groups 4) There wouldn't be any arguments about where Sea Kayaks, S-O-T's, etc would go IMHO, The creation of a WW-only group is the "best" solution to this issue.

There is only one problem with this approach:  it won't work.  Since most of the whitewater folks don't mind the group as it is, they aren't going to put up the effort to "move" to a new group.  This is compounded by the folks who post only once every few months; they will continue to post to RBP for some time to come.  After this happens, WW people will crosspost to both groups (RBP and RBPW) to make sure that their messages get out to the intended audience. IMO, the only way that you will get some solitude is to create a new group. That way, you will leave the crowd behind (at least for a while). -- Steve Culy Visual Numerics, Inc.

Response:

I have to disagree with the proposal to split this group, although I haven't kayaked in years, I do marathon canoe racing, flatwater to III trips and would love to do more sea kayaking.  I enjoy this group as it is, with the hot shot rodeo'ers and the skin boaters and would miss many of 'characters' crochets by having to go back and forth between NG's.  That is if can get the new NG.  I have never felt intimidated about posting marathon stuff here and have gotten some interesting and unexpected replies.  Even the blather about religion makes me think of compfire discussions and Jack Daniels.  I fear that some of the pressure to split is "sour grapes."                 Don, an RBP 'bobber'

Response:

I encourage all interested parties to brainstorm for a renaming that would CORRECTLY describe the split.  An example might be rec.boats.paddle.whitewater rec.boats.paddle.flatwater or flatwater+touring or flatwater+tripping

Would the word  "flatwater" exclude canoe trips involving rapids?  I hope not. Would the word "touring" or "tripping" exclude flatwater paddlers who aren't into trips? Again, I hope not. Where do tripping rafters fit in? I agree that rec.boats.paddle.whitewater is a good name for paddlers who play in whitewater.  Is this likely though? Finally, let me say that I intend no criticism of Bob Solak. I think he's done a great thing by stepping up and actually doing the right thing, an RFD,

Yes. Lloyd Bowles The Mad Canoeist "Keep the open side up!" http://www.fortunecity.com/greenfield/clearstreets/358/index.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - I encourage all interested parties to brainstorm for a renaming that would CORRECTLY describe the split.  An example might be rec.boats.paddle.whitewater rec.boats.paddle.flatwater or flatwater+touring or flatwater+tripping Would the word  "flatwater" exclude canoe trips involving rapids?  I hope not. Would the word "touring" or "tripping" exclude flatwater paddlers who aren't into trips? Again, I hope not. Where do tripping rafters fit in? I agree that rec.boats.paddle.whitewater is a good name for paddlers who play in whitewater.  Is this likely though?

Good points. Also, where would surf boats fit in? The point is, is it REALLY taking people THAT long to scan thread titles? Let me time myself doing it right now....  OK, being honest now, it took me 20 seconds. Is that too big a burden to warrant splitting the groups off into discrete major chunks? If there are small special interest segments, the appropriate thing is to run a mailing list to meet those people needs. If you split the group roughly equally, all you are doing is saving, what, 10 of those 20 seconds that it took to scan thread titles? Again, this is just my opinion, but I don't think its worth it, in fact Ii fear it might actually be counter-productive when the inevitable cross postings start to occur leaving even more total thread titles to scan thru. regards, Njall regards, Njall

Response:

The point is, is it REALLY taking people THAT long to scan thread titles? Let me time myself doing it right now....  OK, being honest now, it took me 20 seconds.

And how many threads were there for you to scan through? Maybe it isn't a problem for you, but we keep having paddlers say that they are leaving this newsgroup because of the volume of posts that don't interest them.  There's a problem somewhere or this wouldn't happen. Is that too big a burden to warrant splitting the groups off into discrete major chunks? If there are small special interest segments, the appropriate thing is to run a mailing list to meet those people needs.

I've been part of a few mailing lists.  I find them less convenient & less spontaneous than newsgroups.  Also, they aren't easily found by potential new members.  If a mailing list is okay with you, why not a new newsgroup? If you split the group roughly equally, all you are doing is saving, what, 10 of those 20 seconds that it took to scan thread titles? Again, this is just my opinion, but I don't think its worth it, in fact Ii fear it might actually be counter-productive when the inevitable cross postings start to occur leaving even more total thread titles to scan thru.

So you go from 20 to 30 or 40 seconds?  It will only affect those who want to read both groups, such as myself.  It will be much better for people with interest in only one group. Lloyd Bowles The Mad Canoeist "Keep the open side up!" http://www.fortunecity.com/greenfield/clearstreets/358/index.html

Response:

I've been part of a few mailing lists.  I find them less convenient & less spontaneous than newsgroups.  Also, they aren't easily found by potential new members.  If a mailing list is okay with you, why not a new newsgroup?

Why? Because a mailing list, by nature, is intended to service a very small, very well defined topic group. A small mailing list would not create the cross-posting problems that 2 roughly equal in size and ILL-DEFINED newsgroups would. If you split the group roughly equally, all you are doing is saving, what, 10 of those 20 seconds that it took to scan thread titles? Again, this is just my opinion, but I don't think its worth it, in fact Ii fear it might actually be counter-productive when the inevitable cross postings start to occur leaving even more total thread titles to scan thru. So you go from 20 to 30 or 40 seconds?  It will only affect those who want to read both groups, such as myself.  It will be much better for people with interest in only one group.

Lloyd, thanks for acknowledging that due to cross-postings reading 2 newsgroups could take longer than reading the current rbp. One thing you didn't respond to though was my question, "Where would surf boating go?". It's an example of how ill-defined the proposed group is. Also, as a sea kayaker, i guarantee you that new people will think rec.boats.canoe is  NOT their newsgroup. Also, i notice that no one metions using kill files to screen title threads. Perhaps the real problem is that people need better newsreader software. If one filtered for about 5 river names, 5 boat brands and about 6 people's names I think about 85% of the whitewater posts could be screened out. regards, Njall

Response:

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - I agree that rec.boats.paddle.whitewater is a good name for paddlers who play in whitewater.  Is this likely though? Lloyd, what do you think about REC.BOATS.PADDLE.NON-WHITEWATER While I like the idea of the ww folks moving to a group called rec.boats.paddle.whitewater better, I agree that this is highly unlikely. Seems to me that the NON-WW name would accomplish what we need, it would be self descriptive, clear and understandable.

One of the best ways to go about coming up with a name for a new newsgroup proposal is to look at the precedents that have already been set. One of conventions you'll find that is commonly used is the creation of a "misc" group.  For example, for basketball discussions there are: rec.sport.basketball.misc rec.sport.basketball.pro rec.sport.basketball.college The "pro" group is for discussion of professional teams, "college" for college teams and players, and "misc" for everything else. The rec.skating hierarchy is set up similarly. It has: rec.sport.skating.misc rec.sport.skating.roller rec.sport.skating.racing rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational rec.sport.skating.ice.figure rec.sport.skating.figure The skating groups are actually similar in structure to how paddling groups could be.  Both involve different types of equipment (ice, roller, inline) as well as different styles (racing, figure, recreational) and could use a catch all group (misc) for things that don't fit into a more strictly defined box. The rec.boats.canoeing proposal follows a structure more like the rec.outdoors.fishing fiasco.   At one time there wasn't a newsgroup devoted to fishing and alt.fishing was created.  A year or so later someone had the bright idea to create a fishing group in the the rec hierarchy and chose rec.outdoors.fishing as it's title. For many years the only group in the rec.outdoors hierarchy were the fishing groups and there was no corresponding rec.indoors group.  Groups like rec.climbing, rec.kites, rec.scuba, rec.skydiving; all recreational activites that take place in outdoors never made it into the rec.outdoors hierarchy. A few years ago I wrote and initiated an RFD for rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying.  Even though the act of tying flies doesn't typically take place in the outdoors I was more or less forced to put it under rec.outdoors.fishing.fly because that's where all of the flyfishing discussion took place. If we're going to split rec.boats.paddling (and rec.boats.canoing *is* a split despite the ambigous naming) the topic with the biggest chuck of traffic should be split off (whitewater) and a misc group created for everything else. For example, my proposal would be: rec.boats.paddling.whitewater rec.boats.paddling.flatwater rec.boats.paddling.misc even though I would still prefer that everything remains as it is, in one newsgroup. John Fereira Stop Unsolicited Commercial Email - Join CAUCE (http://www.cauce.org) Support HR 1748, the anti-spam bill.

Response:

So you go from 20 to 30 or 40 seconds?  It will only affect those who want to read both groups, such as myself.  It will be much better for people with interest in only one group. Lloyd, thanks for acknowledging that due to cross-postings reading 2 newsgroups could take longer than reading the current rbp.

If your newsreader is compliant to standard this is not true.  When an article is crossposted to more then one newsgroup it should only appear in the first one that you read if your newsreader is written correctly.  If you're seeing an article that has been crossposted in both groups twice there's something wrong with your newsreader. I don't think correctly crossposted articles is the problem though.  The problem is articles which are posted to the two different groups separately. The most frequent postings of these types are article which are off-topic for *both* groups (i.e. make money fast postings, commercial solicitations). If I am reading two separate groups instead of one it means I have to delete inappropriately posted articles twice. One of the other problems with crossposting is thread drift.  It often doesn't take more then a couple of responses from a thread that might have been appropriate in two separate groups to drift to a topic that is only appropriate in one.   One thing you didn't respond to though was my question, "Where would surf boating go?". It's an example of how ill-defined the proposed group is. Also, as a sea kayaker, i guarantee you that new people will think rec.boats.canoe is  NOT their newsgroup. Also, i notice that no one metions using kill files to screen title threads. Perhaps the real problem is that people need better newsreader software. If one filtered for about 5 river names, 5 boat brands and about 6 people's names I think about 85% of the whitewater posts could be screened out. regards, Njall

John Fereira Stop Unsolicited Commercial Email - Join CAUCE (http://www.cauce.org) Support HR 1748, the anti-spam bill.

Response:

I have a good isp? Woah! That's the first time anyone has said that to me.

Compared to mine. Mine misses about 75% of RBP posts. It is HELL to follow a discussion like that. You can complain about AOL -- hey, it's got to be better than that! But, the nearest place I can get to AOL is still a long-distance call for me. -- Wes -- Posted via Talkway - http://www.talkway.com Surf Usenet at home, on the road, and by email -- always at Talkway.

Response:

If a mailing list is okay with you, why not a new newsgroup? Because a newsgroup is about 100 times as resource intensive as a mailing list.

Did that whole discussion, sounds totally facetious to me. Does all rbp equal one gif? Also it was being used as an excuse to silence people. It was a lame and ugly thread.  Also, we keep getting posts that say "I left because of too many posts" which is sort like saying "nobody here but us chickens!" It seems like the people that have "left" are the ones reading the most intently! The people that *have* left (like Heimer) are the ones tired of the whining and complaining. There is something very very suspicious going on with the "I left" posts, and it certainly seems to have raised doubts in the minds of the many people who respond "How long does it really take to read the subjects?" gregg

Response:

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Good points. Also, where would surf boats fit in? The point is, is it REALLY taking people THAT long to scan thread titles? Let me time myself doing it right now....  OK, being honest now, it took me 20 seconds. Is that too big a burden to warrant splitting the groups off into discrete major chunks? If there You're lucky. You have a decent ISP. I have to use Talkways, because I have a lousy one, but it's the only one available through local dialup. It takes me an hour or more to go through RBP, post by post, because trying to do it by message headers is even slower. Since this is winter and I hate TV and the water is too hard for paddling, it doesn't matter, but as soon as things warm up a bit, I often won't have the time to dink around going through post after post, looking for the perhaps five percent that interest me. -- Wes

I have a good isp? Woah! That's the first time anyone has said that to me. regards, Njall

Response:

Also, we keep getting posts that say "I left because of too many posts" which is sort like saying "nobody here but us chickens!" It seems like the people that have "left" are the ones reading the most intently!

Um, Gregg, if they are reading all the posts then they must enjoy reading all the posts so volume isn't a problem. Volume is a problem when people are reading relatively FEW posts compared to the total. Think about it. The people that *have* left (like Heimer) are the ones tired of the whining and complaining.

Trust me, there will be plenty of whining and complaining in any new/split groups as well. So, that's irrelevant. There is something very very suspicious going on with the "I left" posts, and it certainly seems to have raised doubts in the minds of the many people who respond "How long does it really take to read the subjects?"

Huh? you lost me with this last part, what's the "suspicious" stuff that is "going on'? Gregg, I am just curious, how long does it take you to scan the thread titles? regards, Njall

Response:

Good points. Also, where would surf boats fit in? The point is, is it REALLY taking people THAT long to scan thread titles? Let me time myself doing it right now....  OK, being honest now, it took me 20 seconds. Is that too big a burden to warrant splitting the groups off into discrete major chunks?

How long would it take you to scan two newsgroups? 27 seconds maybe? The point behind all of this is to provide a forum for non-ww boaters to discuss non-ww topics. In an ideal world we would have a newsgroup dedicated to WW only, in which case all *other* forms of paddling would remain in R.B.P. This would prbably result in a good balance of posts between the groups. I have seen many posts roll of my server due to excessive volume on R.B.P - which is 2x rec.backcountry and 4-5x rec.boats.building on any given day. Nobody, as far as I'm concerned is advocating the fractionalization of RBP - just a logical division.

Response:

Good points. Also, where would surf boats fit in? The point is, is it REALLY taking people THAT long to scan thread titles? Let me time myself doing it right now....  OK, being honest now, it took me 20 seconds. Is that too big a burden to warrant splitting the groups off into discrete major chunks? If there

You're lucky. You have a decent ISP. I have to use Talkways, because I have a lousy one, but it's the only one available through local dialup. It takes me an hour or more to go through RBP, post by post, because trying to do it by message headers is even slower. Since this is winter and I hate TV and the water is too hard for paddling, it doesn't matter, but as soon as things warm up a bit, I often won't have the time to dink around going through post after post, looking for the perhaps five percent that interest me. -- Wes -- Posted via Talkway - http://www.talkway.com Surf Usenet at home, on the road, and by email -- always at Talkway.

Response:

If a mailing list is okay with you, why not a new newsgroup?

Because a newsgroup is about 100 times as resource intensive as a mailing list.  Each location it sends it to is less than a piece of e-mail, however there are 100,000 locations. Traditionally, the tradeoff was guestimated at around 100 members, however the internet (and usenet) has grown signifigantly since anyone looked at it, it's probably closer to 1000 now. Jay -- * Jay Denebeim  Moderator       rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated   *

Response:

what do you think about REC.BOATS.PADDLE.NON-WHITEWATER While I like the idea of the ww folks moving to a group called rec.boats.paddle.whitewater better, I agree that this is highly unlikely.

This name may be seen as excluding canoe trip reports or route descriptions that have whitewater as a minor element. Lloyd Bowles The Mad Canoeist "Keep the open side up!" http://www.fortunecity.com/greenfield/clearstreets/358/index.html

Response:

I agree that rec.boats.paddle.whitewater is a good name for paddlers who play in whitewater.  Is this likely though?

Lloyd, what do you think about REC.BOATS.PADDLE.NON-WHITEWATER While I like the idea of the ww folks moving to a group called rec.boats.paddle.whitewater better, I agree that this is highly unlikely. Seems to me that the NON-WW name would accomplish what we need, it would be self descriptive, clear and understandable. Chuck

Response:

                     REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)                  unmoderated group rec.boats.canoeing This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of a world-wide unmoderated Usenet newsgroup rec.boats.canoeing.  This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time.  Procedural details are below. Newsgroup line: rec.boats.canoeing      Discussions related to flatwater canoeing. RATIONALE: rec.boats.canoeing Discussion of flatwater canoeing, canoes, and canoe tripping constitutes a minority of the traffic on rec.boats.paddle.  A brief, and admittedly unscientific sampling of the traffic on rec.boats.paddle yielded the following results: 8% of posts were applicable to flatwater canoeing, 8% *might* be of interest to a flatwater canoeist, and 84% of posts dealt with white-water kayaking. Precise percentages are not important, rather, these numbers are presented as a snapshot of a typical day of posts. At a conservative rate of 200 posts per day, a strictly flatwater canoeist would need to sort out 164 posts that he/she considers irrelavent. A rec.boats.canoeing newsgroup would provide an alternative group that strictly flatwater canoeists could subscribe to without the nuisance of sorting inapplicable headers. There have been lengthy discussions in the past on rec.boats.paddle about splitting the newsgroup.  They have frequently ended with no RFD being written.  This proposed group is not intended to split the newsgroup.  Rather, it simply provides a place for flatwater canoeing discussion.  Paddlers who enjoy both flatwater and whitewater paddling will benefit from the ability to direct specific comments and questions toward a more focused group. CHARTER: rec.boats.canoeing Appropriate topics for rec.boats.canoeing include questions and comments about canoes, canoe accesories, canoeing technique, flatwater canoeing locations/routes, canoe camping, canoe tripping, and other flatwater canoeing related topics.  Discussion about whitewater canoeing is not prohibited, but posters should be aware that their comments and questions would generate higher quality responses in the rec.boats.paddle newsgroup.  For Sale and Wanted to Buy posts should be preceded by a [FS] or [WTB] flag in the subject header.  Retailers of both used and new boats/gear should provide links to their webpages or e-mail addresses rather than post lists of available boats/gear. Retailers should also limit such posts to a total of 1 per month or less. END CHARTER. PROCEDURE: This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes.  In this phase of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups should be raised and resolved.  The discussion period will continue for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which a Call For Votes (CFV) may be posted by a neutral vote taker if the discussion warrants it.  Please do not attempt to vote until this happens. All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups. This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal".  Please refer to these documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any questions about the process. DISTRIBUTION: This RFD has been posted to the following newsgroups:   news.announce.newgroups news.groups   rec.boats.paddle rec.backcountry rec.boats.building rec.boats.racing   (mailing list, see canoecountry.com for info)

Response:

Note followup-to is news.groups!!! Summary:  This RFD would create a confusing namespace and would not solve the problem leading to the RFD.  While I understand and sympathize with the wishes of the flatwater minority on RBP, this RFD will only confuse the issue.         rec.boats.canoeing has been proposed as a place for the non-whitewater interests of rec.boats.paddle to use, as a solution for the problems with whitewater traffic drowning out non-whitewater traffic on rec.boats.paddle.  But the name is not descriptive, for the following reasons: 1) Some non-negligible percentage of the whitewater posters on rec.boats.paddle paddle canoes, not kayaks. 2) rec.boats.canoeing does not accurately cover the sea kayaking, kayak touring and kayak tripping interests that should also be covered by this split/newgroup. 3) In American English, a "canoe" is a boat paddled with a one-bladed paddle.  In British English, the word "canoe" covers both one-bladed and two-bladed craft; in short, what Yanks call a Kayak, Brits call a Canoe.         For these reasons, the hierarchy that would result from this proposal passing would result in two groups whose names do not describe the traffic they are supposed to be carrying.  The result of this vote passing would be "rec.boats.paddle" for whitewater interests and "rec.boats.canoeing" for flatwater/touring interests.  Can anyone honestly say that they figured that out from the names?         I cannot vote for this proposal as written, and I encourage all concerned parties to honestly ask themselves if they can.  There is a serious danger here that there are many frustrated flatwater boaters willing to vote for anything that will get them out of rec.boats.paddle’s traffic.  But a poor solution is worse than no solution in the long run, and this solution will only result in confusion.         I encourage all interested parties to brainstorm for a renaming that would CORRECTLY describe the split.  An example might be rec.boats.paddle.whitewater rec.boats.paddle.flatwater or flatwater+touring or flatwater+tripping         Please, people, we’ll have to live with this vote for a long time.  Don’t screw up everybody because it’s easier to vote for the first solution offered rather than wait for the right solution.         Finally, let me say that I intend no criticism of Bob Solak. I think he’s done a great thing by stepping up and actually doing the right thing, an RFD, as opposed to countless others who think that groups are formed by a quorum of whining.  I just disagree with the name chosen for the new group.  1.01 GCS/GO d++ p+ c++ l++ u++ e+ -m+ s++/- n- h !(f)? g+ -w+ t+ r– y?  "I want to permeate the air you breathe/slide my way under your skin/place myself behind your eyes/and watch you, watch me, looking in." Katell Keineg

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Question:

Does anyone have contact information for the NY State Guides Association? I would like to find out what the requirements are for certification.

Response:

Does anyone have contact information for the NY State Guides Association? I would like to find out what the requirements are for certification.

Michael, The phone number for NYSOGA is 518 798 1253.  Good luck. James Ehlers NYSOGA Member Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service 1997 Guide of the Year Vermont Fly Fishing, Hunting, River and Woodland Outings http://pobox.com/~uncle

Response:

Mike – Contact the DEC in Raybrooke, NY (area code 518) and they can refer you to the proper office which will mail out an aplication form as well as requirements. What is required for the Backpacking/Hiking & Camping Licence: (If I remember correctly) -Passing a Physical Exam from your Doctor, -Basic First Aid AND Water Safety Course OR  Advanced First Aid (Includes Water Safety course) -Taking a 2 or 3 hour test at your Regional DEC Office (Core plus area of  specialty  -Climbing/Hiking & Backpacking/Canoeing/Camping…) -Fee of around $50-$75 Good Luck Rick Does anyone have contact information for the NY State Guides Association? I would like to find out what the requirements are for certification.

– ***NOTICE*** Do not use autosend with the spam defeater  Rick Story

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Question:

Hi, I just started packing my fishing gears for a 3-day vacation heading Reno/Tahoe area. Can someone tell me where I can find the best resource, ie, books, guides etc. which show the hot fishing spots in that area, or maybe you can do better than those books. I don’t do fly-fishing, and I’d prefer not to use the charter. Your help will be greatly appreciated.

Response:

Hello, Try http://www.fishsniffer.com ~~~^^~~Chris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I just started packing my fishing gears for a 3-day vacation heading Reno/Tahoe area. Can someone tell me where I can find the best resource, ie, books, guides etc. which show the hot fishing spots in that area, or maybe you can do better than those books. I don’t do fly-fishing, and I’d prefer not to use the charter. Your help will be greatly appreciated.

Response:

Question:

I am looking for web sites with saltwater patterns and instructions on how to tie them. Anybody run across any?

http://www.reel-time.com/

Response:

Go to http://www.flyfishing.com and post messages about what patterns you’d like to know about. A lot of fly tying experts and commercial flytiers check in at this site. Also, if you are interested in getting a great bonefish pattern book, try Dick Brown’s new book on Bonefish Patterns–it’s excellent, especially for Bahamas patterns. Good fishin’ Bob Elliott, Rochester, NY

Response:

I am looking for web sites with saltwater patterns and instructions on how to tie them. Anybody run across any?

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Question:

Hello,   How can I find out more about flyfishing rivers in Middle Tn.?

Response:

Hello,  How can I find out more about flyfishing rivers in Middle Tn.?

Hi Kevin You will probably get an answer from someone on this newgroup.  However if you do not don’t dispair, call the Federation of Fly Fishers and ask about a club in your area.  Get the contact info from the FFF and call the club contact person (usually the president).  From there you can get information, join the club, make new fishing friends, etc. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Question:

Here ya go:       (rec.outdoors.fishing.fly), by the way you can find those addresses by clicking on the Internet Names button on the top of your Newsgroups screen. CF

Response:

: Can anyone tell me how to locate this forum if you are not on AOL?  I have : a fishing buddy that is on Internet but not on AOL and he wants to join : in.  

I am not on AOL but must be in your forum as you call it.  For me it is a newsgroup.  I am on the internet.  I would suggest using lynx. or rn rn rec.outdoors.fishing.fly

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