Question:

I have a 9′  for 5 that I built a couple of years ago.  In the right hands it  seems to cast a good line.  Medium to medium fast action.  If you would like, you could stop by and try it the next time you are headed to Cornwall. Chris Richer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  My only Talon rod is a light 10.5 ft spinning rod,  so I really don’t know.  Angler’s Workshop always  lists a small number of Talon blanks in their catalog.  You might want to give them a call to see if they will  tell you anything about them. Thanks, found it.  It’s in their VI Plus series.  I’ve never casted a Talon or even held one in my hands, do you know what they’re like? Remove "XX" from address

– Chris Richer chrisratnostormspamdotca

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I have a 9′  for 5 that I built a couple of years ago.  In the right hands it  seems to cast a good line.  Medium to medium fast action.  If you would like, you could stop by and try it the next time you are headed to Cornwall. Chris Richer

I appreciate that Rick, I’ll be in Cornwall, Saturday, September 21st. If that’s OK for you I can send you my phone number and we can arrange something – maybe chase a few smallies. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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still trying to find a good anchoring system to use with my kayak. The dealer kit [anchor off bow and line to cleat beside cockpit]  forces the boat to face upstream or upwind according to the conditions. This forces me to cast into wind and fight fish around anchor line. Also I cannot get to anchor if it gets hung up. Anyone got a suggestion for a better rig.? Joe McIntosh

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Petah I’d look at http://www.tomwhite.com I’ve gotten several of his GLoomis IMX blems and they’ve been turned into fine rods. He’s friendly, has good service and ships at 1/2 of warp speed. YMMV Flyfish

I’ve sent him an email – we’ll see what happens. Thanks Peter Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Anyone have a source for spey rod blems (or just a good source for spey blanks)?  Winter’s coming up and I’ve got an itch to build a new rod. Thanks,      - Ken

Worth a try with Tom White, see my previous post. Flyfish

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I looked up a few lists I had from a year or so ago and found that Talon makes a 4 pc 8.5 ft 7 weight blank, but on the order of US$165 or so.  And if you strike out with everything else, you may want to at least check out Cabela’s 3 pc 8.5 ft 6-10 lb test spinning rod at $US79, don’t know if that particular blank is sold separately…  

Thanks, found it.  It’s in their VI Plus series.  I’ve never casted a Talon or even held one in my hands, do you know what they’re like? Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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 Apart from spending big bucks on a saltwater Vector or Heliply, I’m SOL.  

Those are both nice rods, and would give you an excuse to do a little flats fishing now and then. <g — Charlie…

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yup, I know.  The 8′6" length 7wt. apparently is popular as a brookie rod for fishing on Quebec lakes out of canoes and boats.  I found my old one to be ideal for steelheading out of a drift boat and for all day blind casting for smallies.  There used to be a few different models on the market but I suppose the demand for them was low and they’ve been discontinued. Peter, If the only problem with the rods is portability, have you considered a car top carrier such as a Yakima or Thule? The cost would likely be about the same as a "good" rod, and could be used for other purposes as well. Just a thought.

I’ve looked at those before, but I’d rather have something that would fit in the trunk.  I haul computers and manuals plus occasional suitcases all over Ontario for my job.  It’s nice to be able to tuck in a couple of rods as well. I used to keep a Cabelas Stowaway 3 wt., a Daiwa 4/5 and a Cortland 8/9 (really a 9 wt.) in the a big bag in the back of my truck.  It worked great but over time I found the Cortland to be too much rod for most of the fish and the Stowaway was redundant.  I currently have a nice St. Croix 8 wt. but I lack spools and lines for it.  OTOH, I have loads of 7 wt. lines mounted.  So it’s six of one half-dozen of the other, do I buy more lines and spools for the 8 or buy a 7 wt. rod? I know what Wayne Knight would say, "Buy both." Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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 Apart from spending big bucks on a saltwater Vector or Heliply, I’m SOL.   Those are both nice rods, and would give you an excuse to do a little flats fishing now and then. <g

If you could see the nice, shiny new 48" Thermador range in the kitchen of the nice, shiny new house, you’d know why Vector and Heliply are off my list.  :) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yup, I know.  The 8′6" length 7wt. apparently is popular as a brookie rod for fishing on Quebec lakes out of canoes and boats.  I found my old one to be ideal for steelheading out of a drift boat and for all day blind casting for smallies.  There used to be a few different models on the market but I suppose the demand for them was low and they’ve been discontinued. Peter, If the only problem with the rods is portability, have you considered a car top carrier such as a Yakima or Thule? The cost would likely be about the same as a "good" rod, and could be used for other purposes as well. Just a thought.

And if I may, why does it have to fit in the trunk?  Is it a security thing, or…???  Either way, a couple of questions – are you willing to finish/refinish something, and does it have to graphite? TC, R

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you’d know why Vector and Heliply are off my list.  :)

Well, you don’t have to get both right away. <g — Charlie…

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And if I may, why does it have to fit in the trunk?  Is it a security thing, or…???  Either way, a couple of questions – are you willing to finish/refinish something, and does it have to graphite? TC, R

I know that there are some fiberglass blanks kicking around in a 7 wt. (Fenglas?) but they generally don’t have the horsepower to handle wind, etc. so that’s why I wasn’t really considering them. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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models on the market but I suppose the demand for them was low and they’ve been discontinued. Could you build one out of a 9′ 6wt blank that you cut back? Maybe I’m just showing my ignorance, Jon.

I considered that – get a cheap blank and chop 6" off the tip. However, I’d have to be very careful that I choose a blank that doesn’t exhibit a radical thickening of the blank just beyond the tip. Some of the cheaper ones I’ve had don’t maintain a thin tip very far down the blank.  If I chopped one of those, I might end up with a one very brutal rod.   Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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I considered that – get a cheap blank and chop 6" off the tip.

What about a cheap "tip-flex" and cut 6" off the butt? — Charlie…

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I considered that – get a cheap blank and chop 6" off the tip. What about a cheap "tip-flex" and cut 6" off the butt?

It’ll speed up the rod somewhat by the line rating probably won’t change. It’s probably the least risky of the two ends.  Alternately, if I found an 11′ 4 piece, I just leave off the bottom piece.  Daiwa has a few in that length that I should check out. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I used to have a short 7 wt. and my son owns one too, unfortunately they are (were) both 2 piece rods and I need one that’ll fit in the trunk of the Golf.  Apart from spending big bucks on a saltwater Vector or Heliply, I’m SOL.   Anyone know of an affordable 8′6" multi piece 7 wt.? BTW, my previous short 7 wt. and my son’s are mostly used for smallies, small stream steelheading, and fishing from drift boats etc. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Petah I’d look at http://www.tomwhite.com I’ve gotten several of his GLoomis IMX blems and they’ve been turned into fine rods. He’s friendly, has good service and ships at 1/2 of warp speed. YMMV Flyfish

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Petah I’d look at http://www.tomwhite.com I’ve gotten several of his GLoomis IMX blems and they’ve been turned into fine rods. He’s friendly, has good service and ships at 1/2 of warp speed.

Anyone have a source for spey rod blems (or just a good source for spey blanks)?  Winter’s coming up and I’ve got an itch to build a new rod. Thanks,      - Ken

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And if I may, why does it have to fit in the trunk?  Is it a security thing, or…???  Either way, a couple of questions – are you willing to finish/refinish something, and does it have to graphite? TC, R I know that there are some fiberglass blanks kicking around in a 7 wt. (Fenglas?) but they generally don’t have the horsepower to handle wind, etc. so that’s why I wasn’t really considering them. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

I was actually thinking of the Eagle Claw/Wright and McGill travel rods (some are combo spin/fly) or "redesigning" something like an older (and cheaper) Silaflex or Conolon fiberglass rods out there by adding joints. You could find an old darlin’ for 10-20.00US (800CDN <G), and be done for under 100.00US and a small amount of time.  FWIW, a lot of the old rods in the range in question will toss some line.  Of course, they aren’t featherweights, and Lefty won’t wanna borrow your gear, but OTOH, Lefty won’t wanna borrow yer gear <G.  And if some punk does "borrow" your gear, it ain’t the end of the world. TC, R

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I used to have a short 7 wt. and my son owns one too, unfortunately they are (were) both 2 piece rods and I need one that’ll fit in the trunk of the Golf.  Apart from spending big bucks on a saltwater Vector or Heliply, I’m SOL.   Anyone know of an affordable 8′6" multi piece 7 wt.? BTW, my previous short 7 wt. and my son’s are mostly used for smallies, small stream steelheading, and fishing from drift boats etc. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Just lend me a 9 footer and it will be down to size in no time.

LOL got any spares? Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Check out Temple Fork they have excellent pricing, good selection, I have used several of there rods and have been very happy.

I used to have a short 7 wt. and my son owns one too, unfortunately they are (were) both 2 piece rods and I need one that’ll fit in the trunk of the Golf.  Apart from spending big bucks on a saltwater Vector or Heliply, I’m SOL. Anyone know of an affordable 8′6" multi piece 7 wt.? BTW, my previous short 7 wt. and my son’s are mostly used for smallies, small stream steelheading, and fishing from drift boats etc. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at

http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Check out Temple Fork they have excellent pricing, good selection, I have used several of there rods and have been very happy.

will do, thanks Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Hi Peter, You might have trouble finding a # 7 multipiece shorter than 9′. Orvis might have something. The Redington "Wayfarrer" 9′ #7, 5 pc is $195. The St.Croix "Avid" 9′ #7, 3 pc is $220. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com 800/400-0359 toll free USA

I used to have a short 7 wt. and my son owns one too, unfortunately they are (were) both 2 piece rods and I need one that’ll fit in the trunk of the Golf.  Apart from spending big bucks on a saltwater Vector or Heliply, I’m SOL. Anyone know of an affordable 8′6" multi piece 7 wt.? BTW, my previous short 7 wt. and my son’s are mostly used for smallies, small stream steelheading, and fishing from drift boats etc. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at

http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Hi Peter, You might have trouble finding a # 7 multipiece shorter than 9′. Orvis might have something.

Yup, I know.  The 8′6" length 7wt. apparently is popular as a brookie rod for fishing on Quebec lakes out of canoes and boats.  I found my old one to be ideal for steelheading out of a drift boat and for all day blind casting for smallies.  There used to be a few different models on the market but I suppose the demand for them was low and they’ve been discontinued. I already own a 9′6"  T&T Horizon steelhead 7 wt. so there isn’t much advantage to drop to a 9 footer vs. the 9′6"  I’ve used this rod in boats as well and it’s much more cumbersome for casting, manoeuvering around in the boat, and landing fish.  Its size and weight makes it less than ideal for all day casting.  I’ve mainly used it for nymphing and swinging wets for steelhead, a role for which it excels. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Yup, I know.  The 8′6" length 7wt. apparently is popular as a brookie rod for fishing on Quebec lakes out of canoes and boats.  I found my old one to be ideal for steelheading out of a drift boat and for all day blind casting for smallies.  There used to be a few different models on the market but I suppose the demand for them was low and they’ve been discontinued.

Peter, If the only problem with the rods is portability, have you considered a car top carrier such as a Yakima or Thule? The cost would likely be about the same as a "good" rod, and could be used for other purposes as well. Just a thought. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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Question:

I’m going to fishing Kolob Res. next week.  Any recent fishing reports and/or fly recommendations anyone care to pass on? Thanks, Eric

Though I’ve not been there this year, my family still lives in Virgin and Kolob is one of my "home" waters.  Its best fished this time of year from a float tube.  Remember, its gonna be cold up there, so put on the extra layers. I like to "troll" a big dragonfly nymph in the north end of the lake, near were the creek comes in.  The water is shallower there and will warm faster. Also, chironomids patterns can be successful near shore. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

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I’m going to fishing Kolob Res. next week.  Any recent fishing reports and/or fly recommendations anyone care to pass on? Also, I will be up around the east of the South Slope of the Uintah Mountains (Uintah River) next week as well.  I’d appreciate fly recommendations on the streams and high lakes (Paradise, Pachetta) that you might have. Thanks, Eric

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Question:

Things seem to have changed from the good ‘ol ‘357′ fishing days …… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The only trouble I had was  with a fly fisherman who was alone in  a 3-4 person  spot and thought I was rude  moving into it.

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<snip Choc fishing maggots for carp in Japan. Excellent. Most Excellent. — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

Maggots are great to fish on a flyrod. They are not easily cast off the hook, and are great fishcatchers. Good, reliable pattern for me. Herman

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Choc fishing maggots for carp in Japan. Excellent. Most Excellent.

And ethical. — Charlie…

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I ve been up at  Pulaski a couple  days  a week during Oct., generally at the Baseball field. The only trouble I had was  with a fly fisherman who was alone in  a 3-4 person  spot and thought I was rude  moving into it.

I fished the baseball field area many years ago (pre-ffing), and IIRC, it’s a madhouse of shoulder to shoulder spin fishermen.   Anybody who’d seriously attempt to fly fish there is crazier that I am.  :-) Joe F.

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……I think back on how insuffereable I must have been to my trolling and casting buddies when I went through my 20 years of catch and release flyfishing purist horseshit…..

Might be worthwhile to approach this from a slightly different angle. Ever stop to think that maybe you are simply insufferable……that it might not have anything to do with whatever dim glimmerings of a philosophy are bumping around in your skull at any given moment, or the way you fish? Something to think about anyway. Wolfgang

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 The "Unified Stream Theory"  has eluded the grasp of every philosopher  that has tried to fabricate it so far. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion

LOL !!!  MT

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Well…most flyfishermen I’ve met really do think that they are superior No, not the back cast  but the latter

Before I fly fished and in the first couple of years after I started, most fly fishermen that I encountered did fit that mold.  I’ve met plenty however who are not like that at all.  My favorite moment from the shad trip this past June happened while standing in the river with Bill Kiene. He was talking in that particular Kiene way – I don’t know if he is trying to be funny but for some reason you want to smile or even start laughing when he’s saying stuff.  He was admiring the colors of the sunset when he directed my attention to a bait fisherman on far bank.  I’ll paraphrase what he said but it went something along the lines of: that guy might be soaking stinkbait for catfish but I bet he loves the outdoors and this river as much as we do.  So we aren’t that different from him.  And that’s a good thing. Mu

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well…most flyfishermen I’ve met really do think that they are superior No, not the back cast  but the latter Before I fly fished and in the first couple of years after I started, most fly fishermen that I encountered did fit that mold.  I’ve met plenty however who are not like that at all.  My favorite moment from the shad trip this past June happened while standing in the river with Bill Kiene. He was talking in that particular Kiene way – I don’t know if he is trying to be funny but for some reason you want to smile or even start laughing when he’s saying stuff.  He was admiring the colors of the sunset when he directed my attention to a bait fisherman on far bank.  I’ll paraphrase what he said but it went something along the lines of: that guy might be soaking stinkbait for catfish but I bet he loves the outdoors and this river as much as we do.  So we aren’t that different from him.  And that’s a good thing.

I’ve heard nothing but good things about Bill Keine. I’d like to fish with him sometime. Willi

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I’ve heard nothing but good things about Bill Keine…..

Sorry.  Been busy.  Give me a couple of days. Wolfgang

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Their comment was they  prefer to stay away from fly fisherman. I’m assuming you mean as so to not be hooked on a wayward backcast ? An interesting perspective…… Well…most flyfishermen I’ve met really do think that they are superior because they flyfish. This is unbelievably sickening to the average blue collar fishermen.  I think back on how insuffereable I must have been to my trolling and casting buddies when I went through my 20 years of catch and release flyfishing purist horseshit. I owe them for sticking with me.

No, not the back cast  but the latter. I guess each type of fishing has   it s own ethos, maybe  somewhere out there  theyll be a unifying   principals of  fishing  that someone will discover that works for everything.  MT

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No, not the back cast  but the latter. I guess each type of fishing has it s own ethos, maybe  somewhere out there  theyll be a unifying principals of  fishing  that someone will discover that works for everything.

That’s the funny thing. There is a common core, in fishing probably more than in any other human endeavour. If you read the english fishing publication "The Waterlog" it becomes immediately apparent where deep love and lore of fishing exists and where one can find these elusive unifying principals. — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Their comment was they  prefer to stay away from fly fisherman. I’m assuming you mean as so to not be hooked on a wayward backcast ? An interesting perspective…… Well…most flyfishermen I’ve met really do think that they are superior because they flyfish. This is unbelievably sickening to the average blue collar fishermen.  I think back on how insuffereable I must have been to my trolling and casting buddies when I went through my 20 years of catch and release flyfishing purist horseshit. I owe them for sticking with me. No, not the back cast  but the latter. I guess each type of fishing has it s own ethos, maybe  somewhere out there  theyll be a unifying principals of  fishing  that someone will discover that works for everything.

 The "Unified Stream Theory"  has eluded the grasp of every philosopher that has tried to fabricate it so far. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion

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It’s like an addiction – you know it isn’t good for you, you know the neighbourhood isn’t the best, you know that nothing much good comes of it, but you go anyway.  At least once a year, I need my salmon fix. Those that know the Great Lakes tributary salmon hunt, find superlatives are non-existant and compliments stick south of the navel, yet it’s amazing how many of us like to get down and grubby. The Burnhamthorpe parking lot was a sight to be seen.  Not a spot anywhere, with the truly desperate parking on any semi-level ground not occupied by an immoveable object.  The new 2002 fishing car got broken-in as I scraped its belly on a half-buried concrete curb in an effort to secure the last stretch of unmuddied grass.  Truck habits are obviously hard to break.  Two weeks ago it would’ve been, "What curb?" My Scott SAS two-hander had only been out a couple of times and still didn’t have a fish to it’s credit – neither did the reel (in my possession.)  So despite this being highly unsuitable conditions for a two-hander, I took it anyway.  The long and the short of it – fair hooked three, landed one.   Though not Alaska combat conditions, one does fish cheek-by-jowl. There’s something to be said for shooting the shit with a half dozen or more anglers with earshot – sharing a laugh or helping out with another’s fish, spotting a salmon for someone, or giving ground when your offering has been rejected and letting someone else have a go. More than just fishing, given proximity to a couple of pleasant personalities, it turns into a little social event.  There is the odd dickhead but it isn’t much of a challenge in refusing to let the mood be spoiled. Probably take the bro-in-law and Scott out next Sunday morning for one last try. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Though not Alaska combat conditions, one does fish cheek-by-jowl. There’s something to be said for shooting the shit with a half dozen or more anglers with earshot – sharing a laugh or helping out with another’s fish, spotting a salmon for someone, or giving ground when your offering has been rejected and letting someone else have a go. More than just fishing, given proximity to a couple of pleasant personalities, it turns into a little social event.  There is the odd dickhead but it isn’t much of a challenge in refusing to let the mood be spoiled.

…this is so, well… YOU!  one of the reasons your presence at the roff gatherings is such a welcoming thing. well said… jeff (a sow’s ear)

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There’s something to be said for shooting the shit with a half dozen or more anglers with earshot – sharing a laugh or helping out with another’s fish, spotting a salmon for someone, or giving ground when your offering has been rejected and letting someone else have a go. More than just fishing, given proximity to a couple of pleasant personalities, it turns into a little social event.  There is the odd dickhead but it isn’t much of a challenge in refusing to let the mood be spoiled.

That’s a good description of the silver lining to the crowds on the Salmon River in Pulaski.   Yeah, it can be a bit testy at times, but now and then you find yourself, as much through luck as anything else, standing amongst a crowd of genuinely good-natured fellows out to have as much fun as you.   In some respects, there’s a parallel to ROFF in these situations.   A group of strangers shout, joke, fish, and generally have a good time in each other’s company; and the occasional dickhead doesn’t ruin the fun.   Solitude on a peaceful stream is still great, but there *is* something to be said for the group mayhem during these runs. Joe F. (ten more days ’til my turn.)

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That’s a good description of the silver lining to the crowds on the Salmon River in Pulaski.   Yeah, it can be a bit testy at times, but now and then you find yourself, as much through luck as anything else, standing amongst a crowd of genuinely good-natured fellows out to have as much fun as you.  

That sounds a lot like shad fishing on the American River in Sacramento. Now if only the shad would cooperate … — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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 I ve been up at  Pulaski a couple  days  a week during Oct., generally at the Baseball field. I ve found the  other fisherman up there to be a great  bunch of folks, willing to  get out of your way when a  hooked salmon  goes plunging thru the spots they re fishing, helping with   landing and interesting to talk to. The only trouble I had was  with a fly fisherman who was alone in  a 3-4 person  spot and thought I was rude  moving into it. As I was only there to  help a friend get started  salmon fishing I soon left    once he   got the hang  it.  I mentioned this encounter to some of the regulars   on the other bank. Their comment was they  prefer to stay away from fly fisherman. An interesting perspective……  MT

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Their comment was they  prefer to stay away from fly fisherman.

I’m assuming you mean as so to not be hooked on a wayward backcast ? An interesting perspective……

Well…most flyfishermen I’ve met really do think that they are superior because they flyfish. This is unbelievably sickening to the average blue collar fishermen.  I think back on how insuffereable I must have been to my trolling and casting buddies when I went through my 20 years of catch and release flyfishing purist horseshit. I owe them for sticking with me. Choc fishing maggots for carp in Japan. Excellent. Most Excellent. — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Flypaint writes: I thought near the ends of the canoe were more stable for tying off and hauling up the anchor. -Patrick They probably are ,because your’e pulling your anchor line along a stable central axis point.I personally don’t prefer to do it that way because I don’t like to have to lean back every time I want to raise or lower the anchor.We’re talking about anchoring on slow lazy rivers or lakes,not on raging rapids.Their would have to be one hell of a wind kicking up to put me under just because I tied off on the center support.I also find it gives me better boat positioning.Anyway,my main reason in responding to the post was to share a tip about using the plastic barbell.You can tie your anchor anywhere you want as far as I’m concerned.I don’t recommend tying it to your ankle however. Tight Lines,Shawn

:All the canoes that I have used on rivers have had a pulley mechanism connected to the bow of the canoe with the rope running through a channel in the mechanism with a hammer-like piece coming down to hold it fast while at anchor.  The rope can be reached by any seat in the canoe.   Ken Fortenberry writes about using an onion bag with rocks — excellent idea and one used by Maine Guides.  When hiking into a remote pond, all they have to haul is the onion bag and a piece of rope — the rocks to fill the bag are already there!  Actually, it ain’t an onion bag but a bag designed for scuba divers.  You can find them in most dive shops. Achoring a canoe from the side in any kind of current can be unstable and could cause a turn-over.  But, of course, that’s JMHO. Dave LaCourse: These anchor control pulleys are great, but the single point of control often results in the stern being swung back and forth by the current or the wind.   We use the motor at the square stern of the canoe to act as a rudder.  When we are in rocky rivers (and hence no motor), I just use plastic bar bells and a small piece of chain, like one other poster mentioned, and drop a line off the stern.  The stern anchor doesn’t have to be very heavy, but the line has to be tight to dampen the pendulum effect.  I just tie it off the back; no anchor control necessary. JB

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I thought near the ends of the canoe were more stable for tying off and hauling up the anchor. -Patrick

They probably are ,because your’e pulling your anchor line along a stable central axis point.I personally don’t prefer to do it that way because I don’t like to have to lean back every time I want to raise or lower the anchor.We’re talking about anchoring on slow lazy rivers or lakes,not on raging rapids.Their would have to be one hell of a wind kicking up to put me under just because I tied off on the center support.I also find it gives me better boat positioning.Anyway,my main reason in responding to the post was to share a tip about using the plastic barbell.You can tie your anchor anywhere you want as far as I’m concerned.I don’t recommend tying it to your ankle however. Tight Lines,Shawn

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Flypaint writes: I thought near the ends of the canoe were more stable for tying off and hauling up the anchor. -Patrick They probably are ,because your’e pulling your anchor line along a stable central axis point.I personally don’t prefer to do it that way because I don’t like to have to lean back every time I want to raise or lower the anchor.We’re talking about anchoring on slow lazy rivers or lakes,not on raging rapids.Their would have to be one hell of a wind kicking up to put me under just because I tied off on the center support.I also find it gives me better boat positioning.Anyway,my main reason in responding to the post was to share a tip about using the plastic barbell.You can tie your anchor anywhere you want as far as I’m concerned.I don’t recommend tying it to your ankle however. Tight Lines,Shawn

All the canoes that I have used on rivers have had a pulley mechanism connected to the bow of the canoe with the rope running through a channel in the mechanism with a hammer-like piece coming down to hold it fast while at anchor.  The rope can be reached by any seat in the canoe.   Ken Fortenberry writes about using an onion bag with rocks — excellent idea and one used by Maine Guides.  When hiking into a remote pond, all they have to haul is the onion bag and a piece of rope — the rocks to fill the bag are already there!  Actually, it ain’t an onion bag but a bag designed for scuba divers.  You can find them in most dive shops. Achoring a canoe from the side in any kind of current can be unstable and could cause a turn-over.  But, of course, that’s JMHO. Dave LaCourse

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How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps moving you off your spot? Thanks!

Well…if you’re not portaging …grab a large coffee can..fill it with cement/concrete…stick in a large eye bolt.  The can will pick up far less muck when in a weedy/muddy bottomed pond/bog/lake. $.02, steve d.

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: All the canoes that I have used on rivers have had a pulley mechanism connected : to the bow of the canoe with the rope running through a channel in the : mechanism with a hammer-like piece coming down to hold it fast while at anchor. :  The rope can be reached by any seat in the canoe.   : Ken Fortenberry writes about using an onion bag with rocks — excellent idea : and one used by Maine Guides.  When hiking into a remote pond, all they have to : haul is the onion bag and a piece of rope — the rocks to fill the bag are : already there!  Actually, it ain’t an onion bag but a bag designed for scuba : divers.  You can find them in most dive shops. : Achoring a canoe from the side in any kind of current can be unstable and could : cause a turn-over.  But, of course, that’s JMHO. : Dave LaCourse Hi; As a Illinois EPA volunteer, we go out often. We’ve been out in days when we have waves coming over the sides of our kayak. We use a two seater and one person handles the anchor (which we just drop over the side) and writes the results and the other (me) lowers the secchi disk and leans over the opposite side (from anchor) of the kayak to take measurments. We do end up going back to work sometimes smelling kind bad, but we have yet to tip… — John Nelson                       Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page        http://www.chicagopaddling.org   http://www.chicagofishing.org  (A Non-Commercial Web Site: No Sponsors, No Paid Ads and Nothing to Sell)

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How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps moving you off your spot? Thanks!

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How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps moving you off your spot? Thanks!

I use an onion sack full of rocks. — Ken Fortenberry

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How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps moving you off your spot? Thanks! I use an onion sack full of rocks. — Ken Fortenberry

Scott, he’s also been known to use his fishing partner. Peter (promising never to call it an "aluminum monstrosity" again)

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I tie a 5 pound maul (sledge hammer) off the back.  Easy to lift and adjust. Opie  **Panhandling for a better tomorrow!**

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps moving you off your spot? Thanks! I use an onion sack full of rocks. — Ken Fortenberry

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Ken,    The holes in the onion sack are too big to put corn in. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps moving you off your spot? Thanks! I use an onion sack full of rocks. — Ken Fortenberry

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How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps moving you off your spot? Thanks!

Scott, FLOAT TUBE ANCHOR SYSTEM: www.woodrivercompany.com/accessor.htm I have one of these for my float tube and I use with the canoe also…I really like it and I don’t have to haul those muddy rocks that dirty and scratch up my precious and prestine Old Town canoe (that looks like it was dropped by UPS…..Cargo Jet, that is). Padishar Creel

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How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps moving you off your spot? Thanks!

I use a 1 gal detergent jug filled with sand. You might want two, for when you want to keep the craft sideways to the wind. Pops **** Armed and Safe(tm) **** "By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer meets the definition of a telephone fax machine. By Sec.227(b)(1)(C), it is unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to such equipment.   By Sec.227(b)(3)(C), a violation of the aforementioned Section is punishable by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500, whichever is greater, for each violation."

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: How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps : moving you off your spot? Thanks! I have a <ducking head JetSki anchor that I bought from Overton’s.  It’s small, comes with it’s own storage bag and has a little float on the end just incase you lose the rope.  It also has a clip so I just loop it over a thwart and clip it on. P.S. I do not own a jetski — John Nelson                       Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page        http://www.chicagopaddling.org   http://www.chicagofishing.org  (A Non-Commercial Web Site: No Sponsors, No Paid Ads and Nothing to Sell)

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How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing

Hey Scott, I like to use a plastic barbell weight,about eight pounds.I tie a rope through the center and tie the end to the center support bar in mycanoe.The good thing about the barbell weight is because it.s round it’s not likely to hang up on anything.If your anchor hangs up even the least little bit you will have trouble freeing it without flipping your canoe.When pulling your anchor up you want to pull the rope over the side from the center while seated in a stable position.If you lean over the side to haul the anchor you will soon find yourself and all your equipment in the water. Good Luck,Shawn

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I use an onion sack full of rocks.

Yeah, but what yuppie boy isn’t telling you is that those rocks were individually swallowed and pooped out by a rare strain of African wildebeast. Helps ‘em sink faster apparently. –Steve (don’t worry Ken, I’ll get one with a large fridge)

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Scott,   I also like the rock in an onion sack solution, it doesn’t take up much space when not in use so I usually have it with the canoe.   However, I would not tie it to one of the center thwarts.  If there is a current, or a strong wind, this can tip a canoe over.  Also it it easier to tip a canoe when raising the anchor.  It is better to tie to the end of the canoe, I have a carry handle at the bow and stern of my 18′ Wenonah.  It is inconvenient to raise and lower if I am by myself, but I have had a sudden breeze come up and have been happier. Joe – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps moving you off your spot? Thanks!

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Reminds me of my first scuba diving buddy (a college roommate). He insisted that he always carried a scuba knife and dove with a partner for safety reasons. That way, if he saw a shark, he could stab his buddy and swim for shore.

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 i use old window sash weights.  lead bars about 10 inches long with hole already in the end for your cord.  rig pulley off front and you can hold canoe in place during ‘gentle’ winds. fishworship – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How do you anchor a canoe for flyfishing when there’s a breeze that keeps moving you off your spot? Thanks!

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<snip When pulling your anchor up you want to pull the rope over the side from the center while seated in a stable position. <snip I thought near the ends of the canoe were more stable for tying off and hauling up the anchor. -Patrick

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Question:

Never been to Alaska…..But I’m very interested in going this summer toseethe sights and get in some fishing….I hear it is unbelievable! Can someone share information about their trips and make suggestionsforsomeone that has never been there before?  Where in Alaska to go? Motorhome rentals? Lodge rentals? Fishing vacation packages? Fishing Guides? Best time of year to go? Etc.

When I was there it was August and the fishing was fantastic!  We had some business to attend to in Anchorage, but were able to mix in 2 and 1/2 days fishing in Seward (about 2 1/2 hours south of Anchorage).  We fished in the Silver Salmon Derby and I actually had one fish that was in the top 15 fish on the first day, but didn’t stay there very long.  I would like to go back in late May/early June to get in on some of the barn door size halibut.  The days are so long you can fish almost 24 hours a day…it’s really a novel experience.  We fished on a Thu. afternoon and were scheduled to fish again Fri, but by the time the boat got in Thu (around 9 pm) and we got the fish cleaned and stowed at the packing company then had some dinner it was well after midnight.  Since we had to be back at 7 am to fish in Seward it made no sense to go back to Anchorage (5 hour round trip) so we started to look for a hotel.  Since the derby was going on the 2 hotels were all booked up.  So we did what a lot of folks do…3 of us spent the night in the rental car – at least it was an Explorer and had some room.  We fished until late afternoon on Friday, rushed back to Anchorage, packed our bags and just made our flight Friday night.  Dog tired…but worth every minute.  I can’t wait to go back. Brian Raines Publisher, TheChesapeakeBay.com http://TheChesapeakeBay.com

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Alaska is definitely ALL it’s cracked up to be.   Last year we fished for king salmon on the Talkeetna River and halibut out of Homer.   We stayed mostly in B&B’s, but rented cabins in several locations.  We were there in late June and early July, and found the weather to be perfect.   There are many good packages, but we just did our own thing with quite a bit of internet research in advance.    It sounds like most of the higher priced lodgings in Anchorage will provide fish storage.  But for us more rustic accomodation seekers, it seems the best advice I’ve gotten so far is the airport storage facility which can be reached at 907-248-3485.   Thanks so much to everyone who has offered advice.  If I can help anyone with Alaska plans, would be glad to.  Marcia

  What kind of prices did you pay for the B&B’s and the cabins? Bill

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The B&B’s we stayed in ranged from $70 to $100 per night, the cabins  were $70 – $125.  These prices were for 2 people, although most places had room for extra people for $10 to $20 each per night.   I’m going with a group of 6 people this summer.   Our costs per night range from $150. to a high of $256. for all 6.   These prices usually include a full breakfast.     Marcia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  What kind of prices did you pay for the B&B’s and the cabins? Bill

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Never been to Alaska…..But I’m very interested in going this summer to see the sights and get in some fishing….I hear it is unbelievable! Can someone share information about their trips and make suggestions for someone that has never been there before?  Where in Alaska to go? Motorhome rentals? Lodge rentals? Fishing vacation packages? Fishing Guides? Best time of year to go? Etc. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I went to Alaska and fished I had the lodge pack and freeze the fish before I flew out.  Then when I got to my hotel in Anchorage they had a locker that they put the whole box in overnight.  Most hotels have this kind of facility for anglers and hunters.  Ewok I’ll be fishing in Alaska this summer with my family.   We fly home on July 5 and are looking for a cold storage facility in Anchorage where we can store our fish over night before the flight home.  Can you advise us as to a business that would be open to receive our fish on July 4?   Any help you

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Alaska is definitely ALL it’s cracked up to be.   Last year we fished for king salmon on the Talkeetna River and halibut out of Homer.   We stayed mostly in B&B’s, but rented cabins in several locations.  We were there in late June and early July, and found the weather to be perfect.   There are many good packages, but we just did our own thing with quite a bit of internet research in advance.    It sounds like most of the higher priced lodgings in Anchorage will provide fish storage.  But for us more rustic accomodation seekers, it seems the best advice I’ve gotten so far is the airport storage facility which can be reached at 907-248-3485.   Thanks so much to everyone who has offered advice.  If I can help anyone with Alaska plans, would be glad to.  Marcia

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I lead fishing tours in AK every year and the easiest place for your to do overnight storage is at the Anchorage Airport freezer locker.  There is a small fee for this but it is really convenient. If you need to have charters set up or information in the Kenai Penninsula, Homer or highway road to Denali, please feel free to email me at Michael Milne, Owner Outdoor Odyssey

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When I went to Alaska and fished I had the lodge pack and freeze the fish before I flew out.  Then when I got to my hotel in Anchorage they had a locker that they put the whole box in overnight.  Most hotels have this kind of facility for anglers and hunters.  Ewok – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll be fishing in Alaska this summer with my family.   We fly home on July 5 and are looking for a cold storage facility in Anchorage where we can store our fish over night before the flight home.  Can you advise us as to a business that would be open to receive our fish on July 4?   Any help you

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Marcia, We fished in Seward two summers ago for a 5 day stretch – mixed up with some business in between.  (Seward is about 2 1/2 hours south of Anchorage)  At the dock there was a company that would vacuum pack your fish, quick freeze and store them and then ship them to you AFTER you left for home.  Worked great for us, even if the fish thawed slightly during shipping they were vacuum packed. We had around 80-100 lbs of halibut and salmon shipped from Alaska to our home on the East Coast in August and it worked great!  I would recommend this course of action highly. Best of luck… Brian Raines Publisher, TheChesapeakeBay.com http://TheChesapeakeBay.com I’ll be fishing in Alaska this summer with my family.   We fly home on July 5 and are looking for a cold storage facility in Anchorage where we can store our fish over night before the flight home.  Can you advise us as to a business that would be open to receive our fish on July 4?   Any help you

Brian Raines Publisher, TheChesapeakeBay.com http://TheChesapeakeBay.com

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I’ll be fishing in Alaska this summer with my family.   We fly home on July 5 and are looking for a cold storage facility in Anchorage where we can store our fish over night before the flight home.  Can you advise us as to a business that would be open to receive our fish on July 4?   Any help you

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Question:

Looking for a 3 wt. rod St Croix Imperials-any experience or comments?

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I have 3 St. Croix Rods (ledgend series) and I think they are a super value. They cast smoothly and have a modulous of graphite equivalent to more expensive rods.  I highly recommend them. Woollyworm

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I bought a 9′ 3-4 wt. St. Croix Imperial this summer for bluegill and am very pleased with it.  The rod is nicely finished and handles a 4wt FWF line very well.  I was originally concerned that a 4wt. might be too light to cast larger panfish poppers, but it casts up to a #6 popper or hair bug with no problems.  At $100 it would be hard to beat.   —

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Been dealing with St. Croix rods for seven years.  Excellent products for the dollar.  The Imperial is available in a 7′ 3/4 or 9′ 3/4.  Both are a high-modulus, relatively fast rods.  Current price as of 10/95 $110 and $120.  You want-I’ve got. E-mail

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St. Croix rods great deal for the money.  Been selling them for 7 years. 2 models avail. in Imperial 3wt.  7foot and 9foot Current prices are $110 and $120 respectively.  Interested? e-mail

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        I couldn’t agree more with the sentiments about St. Croix rods. If you want a Sage rod for half the price, buy a St. Croix Legend series. Lifetime warranty included. It’s not quite as nice a reel seat, but the fish, the fly, and the fly line don’t really care.

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writes: St Croix’s lightest rod is a 7′ 3/4 weight which IMO casts best with a 4 wt line.  It’s a very nice rod for the money.  You can’t get a better rod anywhere even if you spend twice the money or more.  Just too bad they use such a cheezy reel seat, but that’s one way to help keep the price down. IMO, St Croix is an excellent dollar value.

RJ, the "cheesy" reel seat you refer to is not necessarily there for higher profit, even the big names (Orvis, LL Bean, etc.) use aluminum bands on the small light rods, for the weight saving gained in not using wood/metal for a reel seat. I happen to like mine, even preferring the bands to the standard reel seat. Looks cool too. Frank Church Goshen, In

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Right on Jim, if you’ve read my earlier posts on St Croix rods, you know I believe they are the best buy on the market for the money. I have Sage rods to compare them with, and my little 7 footer holds it’s own against Sage. (maybe not in overall quality, but what do the bluegills care??) Frank Church Goshen, In

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: St Croix’s lightest rod is a 7′ 3/4 weight which IMO casts best with a 4 wt line.  It’s a very nice rod for the money.  You can’t get a better rod anywhere even if you spend twice the money or more.  Just too bad they use such a cheezy reel seat, but that’s one way to help keep the price down. IMO, St Croix is an excellent dollar value. RJ, the "cheesy" reel seat you refer to is not necessarily there for higher profit, even the big names (Orvis, LL Bean, etc.) use aluminum bands on the small light rods, for the weight saving gained in not using wood/metal for a reel seat. I happen to like mine, even preferring the bands to the standard reel seat. Looks cool too. Frank Church Goshen, In

 Frank, I agree with you.  I like slip rings, or cap and ring seats and put them  on all the light rods I build.  I was referring to the standard, oversized,  all aluminum, down-locking ones that St. Crx puts on most of their  rods except the Legend series.  I wasn’t aware that St. Crx was using slip  rings on their 7′ model yet/again/for the first time.  From visits to their  factory showroom it’s my impression that they’re a little inconsistent as to  what type of seat they put on that model.  It deserves a light slip ring  seat, not a clunky aluminum one.  - Rj

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Right on Woolworm, I think these rods are an excellent buy and am surprised that they don’t get more mention when someone is looking for a moderately priced rod. Maybe if they offered a "starter" package like Orvis, Sage, Cortland, et al. they might get a little more attention.

Ahhh, there’s the rub! The rods included in the Cortland starter package are made by St. Croix. And pretty durn nice they are, too. I fished with a Cortland 6wt for years, when I couldn’t afford to own five different rods. My wife uses it now, since I’ve aquired the St. Croix 4-5wt 4 piece pack rod. I LIKE IT! Last month I broke it in fishing for cutts in Rocky Mtn. National Park, and it exceeded my expectations of a travel rod. Primo! — And the Lord put aside his huge cigar…-F.Zappa

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After years of fly fishing for pan fish & bass in Nebraska (but not much fishing done in the past 8 years, or so), I’m looking forward to fly fishing for trout after moving to Wyoming.  I’ve been using a Fenwick, 4 piece-7 foot, fiberglass rod with a 6 wt, weight forward line.  The Fenwick must be 20-25 years old.  The reel is a Pflueger Medalist.   I lived in an area where no one fly fished and I haven’t kept up on the advancements in rods.  Since moving to Wyoming, I’ve taken a fly tying class which was great fun and I’m really looking forward to heading to the mountains.  I imagine that there is a vast improvement with the grahpite rods.  I’ve been looking at the St. Croix, Imperial rods in the 5/6 weight.  A couple of people that I’ve visited with suggested the travel rods. Others seem to think that two piece rods work a little better.  I thought since I already have a travel rod (even though it’s old and not state of the art) that perhaps I should buy the two piece rod, although, when hiking into the Cloud Peak wilderness area the two piece rod might be a little cumbersome.   Do you give up anything in going with the 4 piece rod?  Which rod length would be best, the 8′ 6" or the 9′?  I can’t imagine that 6 inches would make much of a difference but it must or they wouldn’t make the two lengths.  I’ll be doing mainly small stream and pond fishing and will probably be buying a float tube.   Thanks for any advice that you might offer to this fly fishing novice.   Would you mind e-mailing me in addition to posting to the group as my news server doesn’t get all of the messages. Thanks, — To reply, remove one "bs" from E-mail address — To reply, remove one "bs" from E-mail address

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Go with the 9 ft. rod. Travel rod if you truly intend air travel with it. therwise don’t bother

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After years of fly fishing for pan fish & bass in Nebraska (but not much fishing done in the past 8 years, or so), I’m looking forward to fly fishing for trout after moving to Wyoming.  I’ve been using a Fenwick, 4 piece-7 foot, fiberglass rod with a 6 wt, weight forward line.  The Fenwick must be 20-25 years old.  The reel is a Pflueger Medalist.  I lived in an area where no one fly fished and I haven’t kept up on the advancements in rods.  Since moving to Wyoming, I’ve taken a fly tying class which was great fun and I’m really looking forward to heading to the mountains.  I imagine that there is a vast improvement with the grahpite rods.  I’ve been looking at the St. Croix, Imperial rods in the 5/6 weight.  A couple of people that I’ve visited with suggested the travel rods. Others seem to think that two piece rods work a little better.  I thought since I already have a travel rod (even though it’s old and not state of the art) that perhaps I should buy the two piece rod, although, when hiking into the Cloud Peak wilderness area the two piece rod might be a little cumbersome.  Do you give up anything in going with the 4 piece rod?  Which rod length would be best, the 8′ 6" or the 9′?  I can’t imagine that 6 inches would make much of a difference but it must or they wouldn’t make the two lengths.  I’ll be doing mainly small stream and pond fishing and will probably be buying a float tube.  Thanks for any advice that you might offer to this fly fishing novice.  Would you mind e-mailing me in addition to posting to the group as my news server doesn’t get all of the messages. Thanks, — To reply, remove one "bs" from E-mail address — To reply, remove one "bs" from E-mail address

If you are planning on using a float tube the 9′ is better. St. Croix rods are one of the best buys for the money. You give up very little in a graphite 4 piece rod compared to a 2 piece.   Joel Axelrad

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Guy, I believe that my 5 wt Legend is 44 million mod. graphite, and I know its super fast.  I toss big stillwater streamer and such.  It needs a good deal of line to even load.  If you like fast the Legend is it, but in 2 -3 -4 wts I prefer slower actions, Sage LL, Powell SS and LG.  If you do too, look into the Imperial line. jg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -St  Croix. What type of graphite is used and how would the actions be classified? I am interested in the 3-4 wt rods. Any comments pertinent to these rods are appreciated. Thanks.

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I own two St. Croix Imperial rods and they are very different from each other.  One of the rods is a 7 ft. 6 in. 4/5 wt and the other is a 9 ft. 6 in. 7/8 wt.  The 4/5 wt has a fast action, roll casts well, but can be difficult with short overhead or sidearm casts.  The 7/8 wt. has more of a moderate action.  I am not sure if the entire series of rods can be classified as having one particular action.  Don’t really know what type of graphite is used. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like to find out more about the Imperial and Legend rods from St Croix. What type of graphite is used and how would the actions be classified? I am interested in the 3-4 wt rods. Any comments pertinent to these rods are appreciated. Thanks. Guy

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   I would like to find out more about the Imperial and Legend    rods from St Croix. What type of graphite is used and how    would the actions be classified? I am interested in the 3-4    wt rods. Any comments pertinent to these rods are    appreciated. Thanks.    Guy    Search, Read, Post to Usenet My wife has the St. Croix Imperial 5/6 wt. 8′6" 4-piece.  I’d call it a softer, "medium action" rod (compared with my Sage RPL 6 wt.).  It casts nicely, and the price was right. John Y. Liu via HP200LX palmtop Net-Tamer V 1.06H For HP100/200 & OG700 – Registered

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I would like to find out more about the Imperial and Legend rods from St Croix. What type of graphite is used and how would the actions be classified? I am interested in the 3-4 wt rods. Any comments pertinent to these rods are appreciated. Thanks. Guy

    I don’t know the type of graphite St.Croix uses but I do own 2 Imperials, a 6-7 and  7-8, they are both medium fast. I also own a Cortland 3-4 which is a St.Croix blank and it is medium.    My stepson owns a Legend, its on the fast side of medium fast and a bit lighter than the Imperial line. His Legend is also a 7-8 by 9 ft. 6in. as is my Imperial, so it makes a reasonable comparison.   My son owns a6-7 Imperial also but its an earlyer model than ours and"softer". My origanal6-7 was the same way(now broken).These early ones are gray in color and the later are brown, they do not have the same action.   We also own Sage rods in our family and St. Croix’s work well but they require more effort and the line control is less precise. Sage’s are great and unconditinaly guarateed for life and a guy can be in the "Discovery" series for very few dollars above the Legend, check it out!                       DAVE G.

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I would like to find out more about the Imperial and Legend rods from St Croix. What type of graphite is used and how would the actions be classified? I am interested in the 3-4 wt rods. Any comments pertinent to these rods are appreciated. Thanks. Guy

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Question:

"Living toys" are kept in aquariums.  Wild game fish thrive in the rivers, lakes, estuaries and oceans of the world.  Responsible human management of those fisheries includes a number of strategies, each intended to enhance a particular population of game.  Among those strategies is mandated C&R. Woods Hole, MA   USA

IMHO, C&R may be an extremely effective management tool but it is not the only, or most likely the best, way to protect/enhance the population.  The best way would not include fishing.  Unless there are too many fish, fishing will not help the population, C&R or C&K. Netting overpopulated areas would serve if there are too many fish.  On the plus side, C&R lets fishermen catch as many fish as they want.  C&R is the best management tool to protect the population and let anglers catch unlimited amounts of fish.  Since no sane person would ban fishing, and anglers would rather catch more instead of less fish C&R is thriving. But…C&R is disrespectful to fish.  No one can say catching a fish for your own enjoyment, with no intention of using it, is respectful to fish. Do fish deserve respect? Regards, Nicolo

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IMHO, C&R may be an extremely effective management tool but it is not the only, or most likely the best, way to protect/enhance the population.  The best way would not include fishing.  Unless there are too many fish, fishing will not help the population, C&R or C&K.

I see what you mean, but my view is that fishing often _can_ help the population, in the following manner: when anglers have access to a thriving fishery, they naturally want to preserve and protect it.  They become advocates for the fishery against all sorts of threats, such as pollution, or obstacles to anadromous fish passage.  Anglers start to realize that spawning sites and juvenile habitat need to be protected, in order to have lots of adult fish to catch.  And they start to see that overfishing, whether by sportsmen or commercial fishermen, will damage the good things that they now enjoy. The best way to protect/enhance a fish population would indeed not include fishing, _IF_ fishing were the only impact on the fish population.  But there are typically many diverse impacts which must be addressed. Responsible anglers often contribute far more to a fishery through advocacy than they take from the fishery in dead fish.  When the net result of angler-based advocacy is positive, then fishing truly helps the population.  Where there is no advocacy… when no one cares enough about what happens to a fish population… then all too often various environmental impacts trigger a severe decline in the population. But…C&R is disrespectful to fish.  No one can say catching a fish for your own enjoyment, with no intention of using it, is respectful to fish.

Well, I can say it.  Indeed, I am glad to say that I often have no intention of "using" a fish.  I am not always a consumer.  I try to be a contributor.  There are some places in the world which have wild fish, instead of stagnant pools, because I and others were advocates for those fisheries.  When I catch one of these fish, and release it unharmed… then I do show respect, both for wild fish and for the efforts of those who protected the resource. Woods Hole, MA   USA

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -This, however, is not what torments me…mortality studies and techniques for releasing fish are well published and taught in the first day of the Orvis brainwashing, er uh, flyfishing programs. What if all the fish survived, all the time. Should we still fish for them with no intention of ever harvesting them ? This question is my burden. My fear is that the sport loses all of the qualities which make it a sport at that exact juncture and it becomes a meaningless pastime, like golf. The fish becoming an unwilling participant, the golf ball, if you will. I can not imagine anything more disrespectful towards wilderness then this, with the possible exception of putting a silly hat and necktie on the head mount of a cinnamon brown bear.  Our leaders in C&R flyfishing in Basalt, the famous Bill Fitzimmons of Taylor Creek Anglers has such an attrocity in his fly shop turned fern bar.  The same people that tell me that C&R is respectful to the fish. No wonder I am confused. We *must* keep the element of life and death in the sport out of shear respect for all things wild.   Shouldn’t we ? TimW

I don’t think the fish are ever a willing participant, Tim, but to me it is not necessarily the actual killing of the fish that differentiates the sport from golf. Rather, it’s the deception and following struggle, which certainly (at least from the fish’ view) bears the element of life and death regardless of whether I intend to keep and kill or not. There are, though, points at which for me the sport loses something. If the fish were to lose the fight/flight instinct and just passively swim to the bank in surrender, this would reduce the sport to more of a casting contest, and I would not like this. If we never killed a fish and wound up with a stunted, gullible population it would diminish my enjoyment. This is why I gave up fishing freestone headwaters where a 4" brookie will pound anything that hits the water (BTW they’re great eating!). Kept me full while camping, but was not overly challenging. If our behavior were to actually break the spirit of the fish we catch, then I would say ‘that’s enough’. That said, I’ve never seen a fish with a broken spirit. I grew up on and spent most of my life fishing the ocean, where pretty much everything you catch is migratory. It’s not like a pond where trout can almost become tame, every minute of these fish’s life is a fight for survival. I with my fly rod am just one more thing it has to deal with. A mackerel may bite me off today and wind up tuna chow in Fundy next month. So I see no real danger of breeding out the fight or flight instinct in this environment, at least as I have experienced it. What was wild still is. And yes, it is the element of life and death that keeps it wild, but the perspective that does so is the fish’s, not ours. So for me to believe that C&Ring is disrespect- ful I have to believe that the schoolie striper I hook is consciously thinking "Oh no problem this is a size one clouser. This guy will just release me anyway, ho hum." I think highly of stripers, but can’t stretch it that far. See Ya,                                                 jc

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Everyone surely has an opinion about this, and here’s mine: If you never actually "kill" a fish (or at least tell yourself you don’t) then do you truly understand what you’re doing when you fish?   Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This, however, is not what torments me…mortality studies and techniques for releasing fish are well published and taught in the first day of the Orvis brainwashing, er uh, flyfishing programs. What if all the fish survived, all the time. Should we still fish for them with no intention of ever harvesting them ? This question is my burden. My fear is that the sport loses all of the qualities which make it a sport at that exact juncture and it becomes a meaningless pastime, like golf. The fish becoming an unwilling participant, the golf ball, if you will. I can not imagine anything more disrespectful towards wilderness then this, with the possible exception of putting a silly hat and necktie on the head mount of a cinnamon brown bear.  Our leaders in C&R flyfishing in Basalt, the famous Bill Fitzimmons of Taylor Creek Anglers has such an attrocity in his fly shop turned fern bar.  The same people that tell me that C&R is respectful to the fish. No wonder I am confused. We *must* keep the element of life and death in the sport out of shear respect for all things wild. Shouldn’t we ? TimW

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ROFF, TimW brings ups some good points about C&R that need to be addressed. Released fish do die!! I’d like here some comments from experienced anglers and guides about appropriate methods for C&R so we can attempt to reduce the mortality percentages when we do release fish. I’ve heard conflicting messages about releasing trout. For example, gently move the fish back and forth in the water to help revive it. After spending a day with a guide on the South Platee this year he said moving the fish back and forth can spook it and cause it to bolt from your grasp, only to travel just out of reach and turn belly up. Jeff Anderson BTW, as a side note, If you were fishing in an area with a slot (12"-16" must be returned to water) and mortally hooked a fish in the slot what would you do???

Hi Jeff, I usually try to release the fish while it’s still in the water.  The Ketchum Release tool is fairly good for that or make a release tool of your own out of a short piece of 1/2" dowel and a coffee cup hook.   Either way the fish is not removed from the water.  If I get into a really big fish I get a couple of runs out of it and rather than stress the fish landing it I’ll throw a roll cast or two at it and often they will be release none the worse for the wear. Regarding the slot limit question:  If I catch a fish, it’s damaged, and is within the slot limit, I release it — it’s the law.  One of the things the guides I work with have started doing is avoid fishing with hook larger than #4.  The larger hooks just cause too much damage, especially on smaller fish. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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There is no way around harming a fish.  Any aquarist knows how sensitive the fishes are with regards to stress induced by fright, temperature extremes, etc.  They don’t always die right away, if at all, but they often will develop problems if handled poorly. Thus, out of respect, we do not ‘tap’ on the glass of an aquarium, out of respect.  Even though it is a lot of fun and does not kill the fish.  Do we still agree ?

A fisheries biologist and ecologist, for whom I’ve worked, has studied the destruction of riverine habitat in Brazil, from which a lot of the tropical fish that we keep in aquariums have been imported.  These fish are torn from their native habitat, and species which occupy differing ecological niches are thrown together haphazardly in aquaria, merely to please human eyes.  I think I could build a case to call these activities "C&I" – Catch and Imprison.  And if I wanted to be tiresome I could lecture at great length upon the subject. Meanwhile, I practice C&R – catch and release.  Like everyone else I’ve met who practices C&R, I occasionally kill and eat a few fish too, though never on mandated C&R waters.  As I’ve said before, C&R is a management tool which works extremely well to preserve high-quality angling on _some_ waters with _some_ species.  Some fisheries work well with total catch and release in a portion of a river, such as the little river on which I and others carried out a twenty-year environmental restoration ( This was private, volunteer effort and expense to enhance public water.  We asked for nothing else from state government than permits to work in-stream, and a biologist to check our work to ensure that we did no harm.  Thirteen years into the project, we asked for and received one more thing… C&R status for 1.25 miles of river that we thoroughly restored.  It’s C&K above and below).  Other fisheries work well with a mixture of mandated C&R and allowed C&K.  I cite the provincial management of the Atlantic salmon fishery in New Brunswick, Canada, as a good example of this.  Still other fisheries, such as a local, shallow pond where bluegills are the top predator, would almost certainly be well-managed as complete C&K fisheries.  All three fisheries cited are wild fisheries.  They need to managed differently to ensure healthy, wild populations of game fish.  When anglers perceive that they have a stake in the success of the fishery (whether C&R or C&K), some of them become advocates to protect and enhance it.  Thus the continuity of wild fisheries can be enhanced by responsible sportmen’s participation. It is our duty to treat the beasts with dignity and respect them for what they are, animals.  With a distinct place and purpose on the food chain.  Not living toys. We do not kick dogs, we do not chase deer to exhaustion and we should not practice pure C&R on a wild population of fish.

"Living toys" are kept in aquariums.  Wild game fish thrive in the rivers, lakes, estuaries and oceans of the world.  Responsible human management of those fisheries includes a number of strategies, each intended to enhance a particular population of game.  Among those strategies is mandated C&R. Woods Hole, MA   USA

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[some deleted] although one of the things I have always enjoyed about fishing over hunting is that you _can_ put them back. Try rubber tipped arrows on large game ! What a Gas !!!! TimW Nice try but not relevant.

Uh, please…indulge me… uh, why isn’t it relevent ? Let’s say that in 1966 as a hunting management strategy, "shoot and release" was thought up by some simpleton in F&G.  Turns out, shooting rubber tipped arrows at big game is one HELL of a lot of fun AND allowed those big bucks to sow their seeds for another year.  Would this not be very close to C&R ? TimW

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Let’s say that in 1966 as a hunting management strategy, "shoot and release" was thought up by some simpleton in F&G.  Turns out, shooting rubber tipped arrows at big game is one HELL of a lot of fun AND allowed those big bucks to sow their seeds for another year.  Would this not be very close to C&R ?

Sure, but I thought your point was that one shouldn’t fish unless they wanted to eat the fish. When I hunt I plan on eating what I shoot but that’s not always the case when I fish (not that I shoot fish of course<g). If we fish only for food they why bother with fly fishing, why not just use nets? Charlie…

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[some deleted] although one of the things I have always enjoyed about fishing over hunting is that you _can_ put them back.

Try rubber tipped arrows on large game ! What a Gas !!!! TimW

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[some deleted] although one of the things I have always enjoyed about fishing over hunting is that you _can_ put them back. Try rubber tipped arrows on large game ! What a Gas !!!! TimW

Nice try but not relevant. Charlie…

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I assert my right to hunt and fish; I assert my right to kill or release; I only accept the absolute rule that this is done with respect for the population (which may mean mandatory C&R, catch limits, slot limits, or other management tools) and other sportsmen.

Well said. I saw a bumper sticker the other day: "BE AN ETHICAL SPORTSMAN, PRACTICE C&R" *this* dogma causes my dogma. TimW

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We *must* keep the element of life and death in the sport out of shear respect for all things wild. Shouldn’t we ? TimW

First off Lon,  what a great post.  I really appreciate the effort to help me quantify somehow the ethics of harassing, hurting and killing a wild animal for pleasure only.  You did an extremely admirable job.  Unfortunately, for me, I have heard these arguments in the past.  I have deleted some text, but hope that I preserved the context… I am not terribly familiar with aboriginal animism, but if I’m not mistaken, your position sounds kind of similar to the ethical view of animistic hunter cultures (note that I’m not saying that’s what it is or how it was derived). The idea that *not* killing the animal you pursue disrespects it, though I grasp the premise, still bewilders me.

To chase an animal, say a deer, to exhaustion on snowmobile purely for fun would be disrespectful of the animal.  Do we agree ?  To stalk the same deer and kill it for food and use of the hide would be to place it in its intended role in the food chain and give it the respect it deserves.  Do we still agree ?  That is, the deer is an animal and part of the food chain. If you have regard and respect for it (which I certainly believe I do), have gone out of your way not to intentionally harm it (i.e. retrieved as quickly as possible, used barbless hooks, released w/o touching, etc.), I hold that you have treated the animal with as much dignity and respect as possible for sport quarry.

There is no way around harming a fish.  Any aquarist knows how sensitive the fishes are with regards to stress induced by fright, temperature extremes, etc.  They don’t always die right away, if at all, but they often will develop problems if handled poorly. Thus, out of respect, we do not ‘tap’ on the glass of an aquarium, out of respect.  Even though it is a lot of fun and does not kill the fish.  Do we still agree ? Your viewpoint (I think) holds that the sport should not exist as sport only, that only the harvesting activity morally justifies one’s doing it. Sounds Native American (one strain of the animism that I noted) to me.

Well, that’s where I make my home my good friend.  And I don’t quickly dismiss the ethics of a society that has dwelled here for more than 10000 years before christ.  So, I guess that I do agree with you.  Further I am ashamed at the actions of my ancestors for forcing the natives off the land as further evidence that we as a race can be pretty big dickheads. Emminent domain, my ass, but I digress.   I would buy your view if we were living in a hunter / gatherer culture. Buying it otherwise I believe would mean that *everyone* who fished because they liked the sport but who was not doing it to put meat on the table should stop and do something else (like golfing) instead.

Yes, I am saying that.  A fisherman should like to and eat fish.  I feel that this is a basic tenet of the sport.   We are diverging our opinions here.  I posted the other day, "What will man’s interaction with nature become when all the world is a park ?". I am frightened by this thought, aren’t you ?  It is not a world that I even want to live in nor would I wish it on my children or thiers.  When I kill a wild animal for food, I feel connected with the world.  I am part of the food chain and there is no point denying that.  When we play with the fishes for sport, we do deny them their role on the food chain.   In summary, a) I *think* I get your point, Tim, and b) I think it’s an ethical (life, world) view to hold, if you are a participant in a hunter / gatherer culture, one which would in that context define you and bind you to the wheel of life.

Yes, exactly our ideas merge again here. My points are: 1) that for all it’s coherence in a hunter / gatherer culture, it doesn’t make much sense to me (i.e. seems out of context) in a modern, polyglot, industrialized society; and 2) that even accepting your notion that the animal is being disrespected to some degree by being used as the object of sport only in C&R fishing, C&R can justified if by nothing else by the attendant preserving effect on the resource. It is simply a fact that there are too many fishers for existing fisheries.

There are not too many fishers for existing fisheries.  This is the big lie.  That is like saying there are too many hunters for the existing deer or bear population. No, we limit the hunters and place seasons and restrictions on the game as needed to preserve the numbers of animals available and to keep the herds healthy and viable.   We are the humans.  I beleive that we are different then the beasts and I believe that we have been tasked as the caretakers of the earth, second only to the humbling forces of nature and time.  It is our duty to treat the beasts with dignity and respect them for what they are, animals.  With a distinct place and purpose on the food chain.  Not living toys. We do not kick dogs, we do not chase deer to exhaustion and we should not practice pure C&R on a wild population of fish.  This last sentence is key.  I feel that size/slot restrictions necessitating the release of too small or too large of a fish for the betterment of the fishery is an acceptable comprimise.  Here is your chance to show respect… You can say, "I am sorry to have caught you little fish, I hope that you live" or "Go forth and multiply you beautiful animal, I do not want to eat your flesh". I can only leave this thought with the simple question that has no simple answer.. Why do we not cast our lines for other orders and families of animals.   Lizards, snakes, chipmunks and squirrels, birds and bats, otters and ferrets. Why do we not ‘trap and release’ the larger animals if it is ok to do it with the fishes ? Clearly to hunt and kill all of the above is in my viewpoint of acceptable but I can not and will not tolerate wanton harassment of an animal just for fun. Hegel’s notion of philosophical argument and debate talked about the stages of thesis, antithesis and synthesis. For the few mos. that I’ve followed this debate in ROFF, I have not yet seen how it will ever get to the ’synthesis’ stage. There just seems to be no common ground.

I can never remember names or facts, but one discussion about the development of ethics discusses the possibility that doing something ‘because everyone else does’ is lower on the ethical scale then doing something ‘because it is universally accepted as right’. I can not simply subscribe to the notion that harassing and harming an animal for fun is right.  Only that it seems like a lot of people are doing it. But, hey! Talking about it can be fun, right?

Not only fun, but the way to the truth…please see.. http://www.ethics.ubc.ca/~chrismac/moral.decision.html Tight lines and, respective to forks, light tines –

Same to you my friend, TimW Fishing less these days and enjoying it more than I ever thought possible.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you were fishing in an area with a slot (12"-16" must be returned to water) and mortally hooked a fish in the slot what would you do??? Did you know that if you step on the middle of a 15 inch fish, it easily distorts longitudinally that additional inch. Just kidding men. Back to sports… TimW Is that any way to show the fish respect?!?  Shame on you. Tsk Tsk tsk

NO ! It’s a way to make it an inch longer so my truck doesn’t get seized by the game warden that isn’t ever there, except when I’m caryying a fish 1/32 inch shy of being legal back to it.  Never stretch a fish while it is still alive, that would be cruel and disrespectful. TimW

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – TimW brings ups some good points about C&R that need to be addressed. Released fish do die!! I’d like here some comments from experienced anglers and guides about appropriate methods for C&R so we can attempt to reduce the mortality percentages when we do release fish. This, however, is not what torments me…mortality studies and techniques for releasing fish are well published and taught in the first day of the Orvis brainwashing, er uh, flyfishing programs. What if all the fish survived, all the time. Should we still fish for them with no intention of ever harvesting them ? This question is my burden. My fear is that the sport loses all of the qualities which make it a sport at that exact juncture and it becomes a meaningless pastime, like golf. The fish becoming an unwilling participant, the golf ball, if you will. I can not imagine anything more disrespectful towards wilderness then this, with the possible exception of putting a silly hat and necktie on the head mount of a cinnamon brown bear.  Our leaders in C&R flyfishing in Basalt, the famous Bill Fitzimmons of Taylor Creek Anglers has such an attrocity in his fly shop turned fern bar.  The same people that tell me that C&R is respectful to the fish. No wonder I am confused. We *must* keep the element of life and death in the sport out of shear respect for all things wild. Shouldn’t we ? TimW

No doubt the philosophical argument will continue for decades (or at least as long as there are any rivers left which will support fish). Fishing is a blood sport, and the element of life and death must be maintained, but not necessarily exclusively. The mere fact that fish which have caught and properly released will come back on the feed in short order convinces me that they are not irreparably harmed by the process. This is also true in the long term, next day, week, month, or year. C&R in and of itself shows no respect for the fish, the only respect is shown when the release is done properly. For example, a fish removed from the hook and then thrown into the water is being shown no respect, it is being treated like an old boot. We have the power of life and death over animals for which we hunt or fish. An ethical hunter may sight in on a small, but legal, deer and then choose not to shoot it, the equivalent to C&R (properly done). Instilling fear in a wild animal (if the concept even exists in fish–with which I do not agree) occurs every time we walk about. Spook a deer, a duck, a partridge, and you have, by your choice to walk in the woods, paddle on a lake, or canoe a river, caused an animal to feel fear. I assert my right to hunt and fish; I assert my right to kill or release; I only accept the absolute rule that this is done with respect for the population (which may mean mandatory C&R, catch limits, slot limits, or other management tools) and other sportsmen. Paul Marriner

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<snip Should we still fish for them with no intention of ever harvesting them ? This question is my burden. My fear is that the sport loses all of the qualities which make it a sport at that exact juncture and it becomes a meaningless pastime, like golf.

<snip In N.Georgia there are a number of stocked streams where a lot of people just follow the trucks around and ‘harvest’ fish to fill their freezers. Is this more sporting than C&R? I don’t really know. I do know some people who fish that don’t eat fish. This always seemed pointless to me until I went fishing for bones, permit and tarpon, which I don’t eat. I guess I just enjoy being there (fishing) too much to worry about the finer points, although one of the things I have always enjoyed about fishing over hunting is that you _can_ put them back. Not much of an answer, but my $.02 anyway. Charlie…

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If you were fishing in an area with a slot (12"-16" must be returned to water) and mortally hooked a fish in the slot what would you do??? Did you know that if you step on the middle of a 15 inch fish, it easily distorts longitudinally that additional inch. Just kidding men.   Back to sports… TimW

Is that any way to show the fish respect?!?  Shame on you. Tsk Tsk tsk Mike

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We *must* keep the element of life and death in the sport out of shear respect for all things wild. Shouldn’t we ? TimW

I am not terribly familiar with aboriginal animism, but if I’m not mistaken, your position sounds kind of similar to the ethical view of animistic hunter cultures (note that I’m not saying that’s what it is or how it was derived). The idea that *not* killing the animal you pursue disrespects it, though I grasp the premise, still bewilders me. If you have regard and respect for it (which I certainly believe I do), have gone out of your way not to intentionally harm it (i.e. retrieved as quickly as possible, used barbless hooks, released w/o touching, etc.), I hold that you have treated the animal with as much dignity and respect as possible for sport quarry. Your viewpoint (I think) holds that the sport should not exist as sport only, that only the harvesting activity morally justifies one’s doing it. Sounds Native American (one strain of the animism that I noted) to me. I would buy your view if we were living in a hunter / gatherer culture. Buying it otherwise I believe would mean that *everyone* who fished because they liked the sport but who was not doing it to put meat on the table should stop and do something else (like golfing) instead. In summary, a) I *think* I get your point, Tim, and b) I think it’s an ethical (life, world) view to hold, if you are a participant in a hunter / gatherer culture, one which would in that context define you and bind you to the wheel of life. My points are: 1) that for all it’s coherence in a hunter / gatherer culture, it doesn’t make much sense to me (i.e. seems out of context) in a modern, polyglot, industrialized society; and 2) that even accepting your notion that the animal is being disrespected to some degree by being used as the object of sport only in C&R fishing, C&R can justified if by nothing else by the attendant preserving effect on the resource. It is simply a fact that there are too many fishers for existing fisheries. Hegel’s notion of philosophical argument and debate talked about the stages of thesis, antithesis and synthesis. For the few mos. that I’ve followed this debate in ROFF, I have not yet seen how it will ever get to the ’synthesis’ stage. There just seems to be no common ground. But, hey! Talking about it can be fun, right? Tight lines and, respective to forks, light tines – Lon Lon Hall Applied Intelligence Group, Inc. Fly Fisher and Cooking Enthusiast "Eat the rich. The poor are tough and stringy."

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Tim Walker writes: What if all the fish survived, all the time. Should we still fish for them with no intention of ever harvesting them ? This question is my burden. My fear is that the sport loses all of the qualities which make it a sport at that exact juncture and it becomes a meaningless pastime, like golf. The fish becoming an unwilling participant, the golf ball, if you will. I can not imagine anything more disrespectful towards wilderness then this, with the possible exception of putting a silly hat and necktie on the head mount of a cinnamon brown bear.  Our leaders in C&R flyfishing in Basalt, the famous Bill Fitzimmons of Taylor Creek Anglers has such an attrocity in his fly shop turned fern bar.  The same people that tell me that C&R is respectful to the fish. No wonder I am confused. We *must* keep the element of life and death in the sport out of shear respect for all things wild.   Shouldn’t we ? TimW

Tim, this is starting to haunt me.  I think recognizing and appreciating that as hunters and fishermen we are involved in a dance of life and death is essential to respect the creatures we hunt and fish for. Many flyfishermen turn up their noses at bait guys….and think they are less refined and care less for their quarry than we the elite do.  What a crock!!!  A few years ago I was fishing some (well known) lakes during iceout in Montana.  Huge rainbows come in for a false spawn along the shore.  I remember this group of 4 guys with two guide s whooping and hollering catching fish….picking them up out of the water and holding them for minutes at a time while photos were taken……there were dead fish in the water all along the area they had been……After every photo they carefully released their quarry……. I’m afraid though that whether one fishes with bait or a fly, whether one C&R’s or knocks everything on the head,  you will always have slobs.  Some slobs wear Orvis and stomach pump every fish they catch…. other slobs use worms.  The best fisherman I know is a (fairly well to do) friend of mine here in southern Wisconsin.  He doesn’t know a Baetis from a Stonefly.  His favorite "fly"?  Chub Tails.  He’s a god with a lightweight spinning outfit.  Gary Borger wouldn’t stand a chance against him.  When he catches a fish he gets it in quick….if he thinks he hurt it…he keeps it…..If the fish isn’t hurt it usually goes back in……he quits fishing when he’s got enough for dinner for he and his wife……he give a lot of money to wild life organizations….. I wish there were more like him…. jim bucklew madison, wisconsin

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If you were fishing in an area with a slot (12"-16" must be returned to water) and mortally hooked a fish in the slot what would you do???

Did you know that if you step on the middle of a 15 inch fish, it easily distorts longitudinally that additional inch. Just kidding men.   Back to sports… TimW

Response:

ROFF, TimW brings ups some good points about C&R that need to be addressed. Released fish do die!! I’d like here some comments from experienced anglers and guides about appropriate methods for C&R so we can attempt to reduce the mortality percentages when we do release fish. I’ve heard conflicting messages about releasing trout. For example, gently move the fish back and forth in the water to help revive it. After spending a day with a guide on the South Platee this year he said moving the fish back and forth can spook it and cause it to bolt from your grasp, only to travel just out of reach and turn belly up. Jeff Anderson BTW, as a side note, If you were fishing in an area with a slot (12"-16" must be returned to water) and mortally hooked a fish in the slot what would you do???

Response:

If you were fishing in an area with a slot (12"-16" must be returned to water) and mortally hooked a fish in the slot what would you do??? Did you know that if you step on the middle of a 15 inch fish, it easily distorts longitudinally that additional inch. Just kidding men. Back to sports… TimW

Did you see that? T-Bone’s karma just ran over his dogma. Mitch

Response:

ROFF, TimW brings ups some good points about C&R that need to be addressed. Released fish do die!! I’d like here some comments from experienced anglers and guides about appropriate methods for C&R so we can attempt to reduce the mortality percentages when we do release fish.

- Use an appropriately sized leader/tippet so you can bring the fish in quickly – Use barbless hooks to minimize any handling of the fish to get the hook out – Gently cradle the fish while still in the water, and with a good pair of hemostats kept at the ready you can usually turn the hook out quite easily. If you *have* to handle the fish, try to roll it out of the water on its back – the fish will usually remain still – and quickly extract the hook. Remember that every second that the fish is out of the water is damaging it’s gill structure (especially true with rainbows) – If the fish is showing any signs of stress (especially if the water temps are above 65F and/or after any lengthy fight) continue to cradle the fish gently in calm water at least a couple of feet deep until it’s recovered enough to swim with strength. Don’t stick the fish face first into rapids – that could actually drown it – and shallow water appears to unnerve fish from my experience – so don’t try to revive them while standing in 6" of water). – There’s rarely if ever any need to "swish" or "pump" the fish in the water. This is usually more disorienting than helpful, and requires significantly greater handling of the fish (which negatively affects the slime and can cause damage to internal organs). – Observe the fish to determine if it’s working it’s gills steadily (should be quite obvious) and keep cradling the fish until it swims away on its own (should be a *determined* effort on the fish’s part – don’t let it just float away as it could well turtle and drown). Use gentle persuasion (just curl your hands a bit) to keep the fish with you until you’re reasonably certain that the fish really wants to move on, then let it swim out of your opened hands. I’ve heard conflicting messages about releasing trout. For example, gently move the fish back and forth in the water to help revive it. After spending a day with a guide on the South Platee this year he said moving the fish back and forth can spook it and cause it to bolt from your grasp, only to travel just out of reach and turn belly up.

I completely agree with the guide. BTW, as a side note, If you were fishing in an area with a slot (12"-16" must be returned to water) and mortally hooked a fish in the slot what would you do???

The law is the law, and I’d have to let it go. If nothing else, you can be sure that it won’t be wasted. Either an osprey or heron or other bird will feed on it, or an otter or some other mammal will eat it, or the crawfish will enjoy it… Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.       Alpha Server Engineering < < Parker Street Campus            Maynard, Massachusetts   < <        Charter Member of "Curmudgeons Unlimited"       < <<<<<<<<<<<< AMA 548313 <<<<<<<<<<<< Disclaimer: Opinion and content is mine alone, and unlikely             to be shared by my employer, etc…

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -ROFF, TimW brings ups some good points about C&R that need to be addressed. Released fish do die!! I’d like here some comments from experienced anglers and guides about appropriate methods for C&R so we can attempt to reduce the mortality percentages when we do release fish. I’ve heard conflicting messages about releasing trout. For example, gently move the fish back and forth in the water to help revive it. After spending a day with a guide on the South Platee this year he said moving the fish back and forth can spook it and cause it to bolt from your grasp, only to travel just out of reach and turn belly up. Jeff Anderson BTW, as a side note, If you were fishing in an area with a slot (12"-16" must be returned to water) and mortally hooked a fish in the slot what would you do???

I catch a lot of fish that need to be returned, as I fish for stripers and our minimum size is 36" (in Me. anyways). Having caught thousands of sub legal stripers I’d have to guess that well over 95% of them wind up lip hooked, or sometimes in the roof of the mouth (esp. w/clousers), but easy to release cleanly. Now and then one will take the hook very deep, and though I cut the line and release it I’m not as optimistic about its survival. Thing is, if it dies it will just change its place in the food chain, its meat feeding crabs, lobsters, minnows which in turn will feed other stripers, so I don’t worry about it. I’ve heard some guys, grousing about the high limits, complaining what a waste it is that they have to return this fish because ‘it swallowed the hook and is going to die anyway’. These people would like to take the fish home instead of ‘wasting’ it. The problem with this is, having fished often with these guys, they would always find a way to deeply hook a fish, thus subverting the slot limit. I’ve seen guys fishing cut herring lip hook and cleanly release 20 fish in a row, but if this loophole were available they would simply hold back a minute before setting the hook, gut hook them and ‘have’ to keep them to prevent waste. IMO you’d see a lot of bait guys carrying off schoolie bass in this case. Better to try your best to cut the line fast, revive the fish as best as possible, and at worst case let it feed other fish than give those who would cheat an open door.                                                 jc

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TimW brings ups some good points about C&R that need to be addressed. Released fish do die!! I’d like here some comments from experienced anglers and guides about appropriate methods for C&R so we can attempt to reduce the mortality percentages when we do release fish.

This, however, is not what torments me…mortality studies and techniques for releasing fish are well published and taught in the first day of the Orvis brainwashing, er uh, flyfishing programs. What if all the fish survived, all the time. Should we still fish for them with no intention of ever harvesting them ? This question is my burden. My fear is that the sport loses all of the qualities which make it a sport at that exact juncture and it becomes a meaningless pastime, like golf. The fish becoming an unwilling participant, the golf ball, if you will. I can not imagine anything more disrespectful towards wilderness then this, with the possible exception of putting a silly hat and necktie on the head mount of a cinnamon brown bear.  Our leaders in C&R flyfishing in Basalt, the famous Bill Fitzimmons of Taylor Creek Anglers has such an attrocity in his fly shop turned fern bar.  The same people that tell me that C&R is respectful to the fish. No wonder I am confused. We *must* keep the element of life and death in the sport out of shear respect for all things wild.   Shouldn’t we ? TimW

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BTW, as a side note, If you were fishing in an area with a slot (12"-16" must be returned to water) and mortally hooked a fish in the slot what would you do???

Eat it. Phil Koenig Manhattan Custom Tackle Ltd. http://fishdoc.com./ "I’m the boss,so WHATEVER I say is OK"

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Question:

1. What significance does water color/clarity have for fishing strategy?   Also, is water level important on a particular stream?

Changes in colour/clarity may be more important than default colour/clarity.  Usual folklore is that FF success declines when a spate river is growing muddy and improves as it gets clearer.  But fish are adapted to the default environment (and can live all the time in permanently clouded water, as you find in clay/limestone regions.) Similarly, rising or falling water levels probably matter more than default levels.  The changes are important since they enlarge or reduce living space for both fish and their prey. The simplest tactic is to fish upstream as far as possible, to reduce the chances of the trout’s seeing you first. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Dear Anglers: I’m a newbie to the sport and I have enjoyed it very much so far.  Haven’t caught anything yet, but my casting is improving tremendously with regular practice (though I have to admit that it’s a hell of a lot more fun practicing on the water than in the grass at the park like everyone recommends).  Now, I have a couple of questions for the experts: 1. What significance does water color/clarity have for fishing strategy?   Also, is water level important on a particular stream?

Hi Anthony Usually water clarity & level does affect fishing.  What you need to decide is what the norm is and go from there.  Water that is dirty after a storm may put the fishing off.  On the other hand if the fish have been suffering from water that is shallow and too warm, raising off colored water may very well improve fishing. Another very important consideration is water temperature in relation to the species of fish you are interested in.  Trout like cooler water than bass as an example. 2. I’ve read of fly fishers using Clouser minnows or streamers in the riffles, and other dry flies and such in slow moving/calm water.  Do you change your fly every few minutes as you are fishing your way down a stream or do you hit the riffles and then come back for the eddys and slow spots?

I do not change my fly every few minutes but instead decide what I want to fish — streamer, dry, or nymph — and do so.  I base my decision on what seems to be happening on the water at any given time.  If the fish are actively feeding I determine what they are eating and try to match that.  I often fish two flies when fish are feeding on or near the surface — a dry and an emerger of whatever species is hatching.   If nothing is happening on the water I usually fish nymphs or a nymph/streamer combination.  To fish the combo I tie a nymph on my tippet,then tie an additional piece of tippet to the bend of the nymph’s hook and tie on a streamer.  This rig will look like a small fish chasing a nymph and can be real effective.  Cast it quartering up-stream and let it dead drift as long as the current will allow.  Then let it swing accross current until it is downstream from you. Then repeat the process. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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I’m a newbie to the sport … 1. What significance does water color/clarity have for fishing strategy? Also, is water level important on a particular stream?

Colour/clarity is siginificant, as is water level.  The impact and degree of these varies widely.  A normally clear stream which is suddenly high and muddy after a big rain will be mostly unfishable, until it starts to clear.  It can still be FFed, though with a big weighted nymph or wet fly.  (The fish still need to eat.) 2. I’ve read of fly fishers using Clouser minnows or streamers in the riffles, and other dry flies and such in slow moving/calm water.  Do you change your fly every few minutes as you are fishing your way down a stream or do you hit the riffles and then come back for the eddys and slow spots?

Basically, NO.  That is, don’t complicate things.  If you want to use a dry fly, then use a dry fly.  If you want to use a streamer (such as Clouser minnow), then do that.  For starters, use a big nymph, or maybe an attractor wet fly.  Cast across and let the fly swing downstream.  When it gets straight down below you, strip in line, a few inches at a time, and repeat.  The areas that you want to concentrate on are the seams (where the fast water makes a noticable line against the slower stuff) and around visible structure like rocks.  You can do the same with an attractor dry fly.  I know it’s BIG HERESY, but you can cast across, and let the fly swing down in the current.  Try to minimize, and eventually eliminate drag (the wake produced by the fly being pulled across the water by the line/leader).  Again, concentrate on the seams and visible structure. Don’t worry about big long casts.  Unless you fish some huge river like the Missouri, most of your casts will probably be less than 30 or 40 feet.  Focus on not slapping the line, not dropping your backcast too low, and such. When you get comfortable with this basic stuff, then you might try "strategies" like fishing nymphs downstream, and working your way down the river for several hundred yards, then coming back up with a dry, this time casting in the "proper" upstream method. Then there’s matching the hatch and all that, which will eventually come. To answer your basic question, most of us DO NOT do as you pictured: dry fly this yard and a half of water, wet fly that, nymph another couple of feet, streamer across there, back to a dry, then another streamer.  We pretty much focus on one strategy/concept/idea/dream and K.I.S.S. Hope that helps, see you OUT THERE. — Bob Lundy IWFFC Mississauga, ON, Canada **new**     http://home.ican.net/~rlundy/

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[rip !] 1. What significance does water color/clarity have for fishing strategy? Also, is water level important on a particular stream?

I love it when the water goes off color.   I whip out my big flies and my 3X.  I am a bit of a heretic because I relish the highest, muddiest part of runoff.  No people and I nail big trout my friend.  I do not seek perfect conditions ever in my fishing, I simply try to see that perfection which is always there.   2. I’ve read of fly fishers using Clouser minnows or streamers in the riffles, and other dry flies and such in slow moving/calm water.  Do you change your fly every few minutes as you are fishing your way down a stream or do you hit the riffles and then come back for the eddys and slow spots?

Good question.  The answer is, only if one or the other is not producing.   If you’re catchin’ ‘em in the tail outs or riffles, you ain’t be movin’ down to the pockets, will ya ? TimW

Response:

Dear Anglers: I’m a newbie to the sport and I have enjoyed it very much so far.  Haven’t caught anything yet, but my casting is improving tremendously with regular practice (though I have to admit that it’s a hell of a lot more fun practicing on the water than in the grass at the park like everyone recommends).  Now, I have a couple of questions for the experts: 1. What significance does water color/clarity have for fishing strategy?   Also, is water level important on a particular stream? 2. I’ve read of fly fishers using Clouser minnows or streamers in the riffles, and other dry flies and such in slow moving/calm water.  Do you change your fly every few minutes as you are fishing your way down a stream or do you hit the riffles and then come back for the eddys and slow spots? Thanks in advance, — Anthony J. Petrella University of Pittsburgh Department of Mechanical Engineering

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: runoff.  No people and I nail big trout my friend.  I do not seek : perfect conditions ever in my fishing, I simply try to see that perfection : which is always there.   Tim Walker, demonstrating that he is actually the roff Buddha. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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*SNIP* The worst caster in the world is going to catch more fish then (boy, is this going to cause a rumpus) an olympic gold medal caster (if there was one) if they can make their fly float more naturally while it’s on the water.

Only true if the worst caster in the world can get it to land delicately on target.  If you can’t get your fly to the target, everything else is a moot point.   But, you’re right, it doesn’t have to look pretty it just has to work. The thing you  may find out is that it’s a lot easier to consistently put the fly on the  target if your casting is good. I agree totally with your comment on drift.  In real estate it’s "location, location, location"  IMO in fly fishing it’s "presentation, presentation, presentation".                                                            Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

Response:

I’m no expert, but have caught a few trout over the years, so I can only tell you what I’m most comfortable with and what works for me. And, I’ll just be addressing dry flies. 1- if the water is very high fast and dirty I don’t bother. If it’s high fast and clear, well…. I’ll get to that in a sec. 2- I fish mostly attractors, and, worry about matching a hatch only if we’re in the middle of a major hatch period. Of course I’ll give a hopper or some such a chance later in the season. 3- I fish and travel UP and cross stream, fishing ahead of myself and letting the fly float down past me. 4- a good cast is all very well and good, and looks impressive as hell to somebody watching from the shore, but, the fish could care less about a cast as long as the fly dosn’t slam down on the water and you don’t lay your line right over the fish. The worst caster in the world is going to catch more fish then (boy, is this going to cause a rumpus) an olympic gold medal caster (if there was one) if they can make their fly float more naturally while it’s on the water. Lolo Mt.

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Question:

You should really do your homework befor going to the devils river. Legally, your cannot step on the streambed due to mexican land grants. You might wan’t to check out the water temperatures as well. Jeff goodwin **  Ashley Laurent,Inc. **  Software Development  **     Consulting          ** *                                   *                                         * * 10,000 Research Blvd, Suite 128   *     voice: 512-478-0776                 * * Austin, Texas 78759               *     fax  : 512-478-0803                 * *                                   *                                         * * Microsoft Solution Provider       *     Complete Systems Design/Development * * OS/2 Premier Developer            *     Workflow and Workgroup Solutions    * * Novell Professional Developer     *     Industrial Appl./Device Drivers     * – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m heading to Texas in late March to flyfish for smallmouth on Devil’s River.  I’ve never been there before, nor have I done much fly-fishing for smallmouth.  Can anyone recommend flies or provide any other useful advice?  I was thinking of just tying some muddlers and wooly buggers, and maybe some ghosts.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Response:

Ashley: I live in south-central Texas and have fished the Devil’s on several occasions. Right now the river is going to be low because of the drought along the border. Generally speaking the best source of information is probably from Jim Kuper at The Tacklebox Outfitters in San Antonio, Tx. Jim is knowledgeable about floating the Devil’s from Baker’s Crossing to Lake Amistad. Contact Jim at (210) 821-5806. As I said, I’ve fished the Devil’s several times over the last 3 years. Because of the draught each year seems to get worse. Last summer I decided not to go back until the draught broke… I’m still waiting. DNW

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Question:

: I’m planning a trip out to Calgary this summer to fish the Bow River. : Has anyone fished this river and can offer suggestions, tips, : comments about the river and the fishing?

A very difficult river to fish unless water-borne, and boating the river has its hazards. There are two large dams (Ghost River and Bearspaw) upstream of Calgary, and irrigation weir right in town, and another one downstream at Carseland. The big dams you will know about; the weirs (low-head dams) will catch you by surprise. Most float trips are between the weir downtown and Carseland weir. For a first time, use a guide — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341

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Great Guide for the Bow = Tom Cutmore of "Must be Nice" drift Fishing Co. out of Alberta. Tom’s a great guy, excellent fisherman and knows the Bow.  Had a ’super’ two day trip with Tom there several years ago. PS- He’s not a relative !! LOL !

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As for a guide, I don’t think you could get one that is better than Barry White.

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I’m going to have an opportunity to be in Calgary in mid June. What are the best areas to fish for a wading flyfisher with no guide? Interested in access, and what fly hatches I might encounter that time of year. Also,  how much does a short term Canadioa fishing license cost. Thanks in advance for any help. Dale Owens

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        Mid-June may be a little early for the Bow. Depending on the snowpack on the mountains, there may still be a heavy runoff. The Bow is still fishable then, but with large, heavy weighted streamers and mynphs. If possible, delay to later in the month to be on the safe side.

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