Question:

Seriously, what about its environmental impact.  I just switched to tin splitshots and no longer wrap my flies with lead.  I do eat 25% of the fish I catch and like to hunt water fowl. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I guess I’m going to have to call that last fisherman I had this fall and ask him what brand of flouro he was using as there was a HUGE difference in visibility of the flouro vs mono. The flouro was extremely visible even through 18" to 24" of river water. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com Nearly all of the above reasons would have been true of the first generation of Fluorocarbon that came on the market. I suggest you try some of the newer stuff, it is much better and in many cases is superior on many levels to mono. The "selling point" of fluorocarbon (FC) is that’s it’s less visible underwater than because its index of refraction is closer to that of water than is the index of refraction of mono. I assume we’re all agreed on that. (It’s definitely not the price Some time ago I looked up the indices of refraction of "typical" FC and mono and compared them to that of fresh water. Sure enough, the FC was closer, but it wasn’t THAT MUCH closer — maybe halfway. I didn’t save the numbers and I don’t feel like looking them up at the moment. If it had been SPOT ON, I would have been impressed, but it wasn’t. The physics and neurophysics of what makes something more or less "visible" are complex. I was still skeptical about the claim. Then I took a length of FC and a length of mono (same diameters), put them into a glass of water, and looked at them. They looked about the same. After that, I was even more skeptical, and I remain so. We’ve heard anecdotal stories about how no one was catching fish, then someone switched to FC and started catching, and then everyone else switched and everyone started catching like crazy. I don’t put any credence at all on those stories. The same damn thing might happen for any number of other reasons.

Response:

  Just as a footnote, my experience was with dries, not nymphing. Flouro isn’t my choice for dries but I do like it for nymphing. Overall, It’s not my choice for leader material because I don’t like making major changes to my leader just to switch between a dry and a nymph. However, in a situation like we had at the San Juan where there wasn’t much dry action, I will use it. I also like it on the dropper on a dry/dropper rig. Willi

Response:

  Al Hammel mentioned fluorocarbon in a negative way. I agree. Don’t use   fluorocarbon for dry flies. It’s too stiff. I don’t use it for nymphing   either, because I think the putative benefits are nonexistant, or at   least are so miniscule that they don’t justify the expense and bother. I used some of the second generation stuff on the Juan this year and it’s very strong, tough stuff. I’m as cheap as they come and I’m willing to pay the price.

The LAST thing you need, Willi especially on the San Juan, is fluorocarbon. In fact, in your case I think it’s unethical.

Response:

I just recevied the three forks 3wt rod I ordered, and I went to try it out. It was much easier to cast than my 20 dollar wal*mart rod. It seems to have a pretty slow action, which is nice after casting the broomstick like shakespear. I was wondering, what size tippet to use for 14-18 size dry flies? Thanks, ALex

Way cool Alex, congrats on getting your KPOS…I know you will grow to love it, as I do…collect the whole set and be confident in the knowledge that you have saved the job of some little Korean cutie. Frank Sr. previous advice on tippet size noted

Response:

Al Hammel mentioned fluorocarbon in a negative way. I agree. Don’t use fluorocarbon for dry flies. It’s too stiff. It sinks, too.

The sinking doesn’t bother me much. In fact, it’s a positive, because I believe a tippet under the surface is less visible than one floating in the surface tension, especially in calm water and sunny conditions. I don’t think FC sinks readily enough to pull under the surface a well floating fly, although it may be a factor with waterlogged or otherwise marginal flies. My objection is just the stiffness, which complicates a drag-free drift.

Response:

I have used the Umpqua super fluoro and find it a lot softer than deceiver for higher knot strength. I like it and may, repeat, may change completely to it before the end of the season. (Consumer warning on above advice: yes I am commercially connected with Umpqua.) Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Al Hammel mentioned fluorocarbon in a negative way. I agree. Don’t use fluorocarbon for dry flies. It’s too stiff. It sinks, too.

Response:

Jon Cook writes: Al Hammel mentioned fluorocarbon in a negative way. I agree. Don’t use fluorocarbon for dry flies. It’s too stiff. It sinks, too.

Damn straight!  Makes it wonderful for nymphing.  <g   If you grease it to within ten inches of the fly, that portion will float, but the portion untreated will sink just below the surface, but not enough to sink the fly.  I don’t like its stiffness, however, for dries, but it is adequate when I am too lazy to switch. Dave

Response:

I have used the Umpqua super fluoro and find it a lot softer than deceiver for higher knot strength. I like it and may, repeat, may change completely to it before the end of the season. (Consumer warning on above advice: yes I am commercially connected with Umpqua.)

Has anyone here checked as to whether or not you can actually see the flouro leader/tippet material when it’s underwater? I’ve had a few instances this season where a fisherman shows up with the new fluoro and the fish just don’t seem to want to eat his bug. I change him over to the old stuff (I use Umpqua but I’m not commercially connected to them) and, bammo, lots more hits with the same fly and all. I’ve held a rolled up fluoro leader next to a rolled up regular leader under water. I can see the fluoro plain as day. Couldn’t hardly see the other stuff. I’m trying to recall what brands were the suspect material but for the life of me, I can’t recall. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

Brian Nelson writes: Has anyone here checked as to whether or not you can actually see the flouro leader/tippet material when it’s underwater?

Yes, you can see it.  Quite well, aamof.  But, my experience with Orvis FC and Orvis Superstrength is just the opposite of what you note.  Went from 5x Superstrength to 5x FC and caught fish immediately.  I like it for nymphing because it holds up better to abrasion from rocks.  YMMV, of course.  <g Dave

Response:

Just as a footnote, my experience was with dries, not nymphing. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Brian Nelson writes: Has anyone here checked as to whether or not you can actually see the flouro leader/tippet material when it’s underwater? Yes, you can see it.  Quite well, aamof.  But, my experience with Orvis FC and Orvis Superstrength is just the opposite of what you note.  Went from 5x Superstrength to 5x FC and caught fish immediately.  I like it for nymphing because it holds up better to abrasion from rocks.  YMMV, of course.  <g Dave

Response:

"Brian D. Nelson" Has anyone here checked as to whether or not you can actually see the flouro leader/tippet material when it’s underwater? I’ve had a few instances this season where a fisherman shows up with the new fluoro and the fish just don’t seem to want to eat his bug. I change him over to the old stuff (I use Umpqua but I’m not commercially connected to them) and, bammo, lots more hits with the same fly and all. I’ve held a rolled up fluoro leader next to a rolled up regular leader under water. I can see the fluoro plain as day. Couldn’t hardly see the other stuff. I’m trying to recall what brands were the suspect material but for the life of me, I can’t recall.

I haven’t had any real problems at all brian, but one thing I find interesting when fishing dries on fluoro is that it seems to have more trouble breaking the surface tension. When fishing on stillwaters I have all manner of problems getting it to sink at all. Of course, once it does break though it sinks faster than mono but getting it to break through can be a heck of a problem.. any thoughts. Clark

Response:

Just as a footnote, my experience was with dries, not nymphing. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Could it be floating more as I mentioned above? I believe the "imprint" in the surface film is the biggest problem with it on smoother waters. Clark

Response:

Just as a footnote, my experience was with dries, not nymphing. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com Could it be floating more as I mentioned above? I believe the "imprint" in the surface film is the biggest problem with it on smoother waters.

Could be. All I know is it was very easily seen while under water whereas the mono basically disappeared and it did make a big difference (at least to me it did) in the number of fish that came up to eat the bug. I’ll have to do a little ’speriment the next time I have some available. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

The sinking doesn’t bother me much. In fact, it’s a positive, because I believe a tippet under the surface is less visible than one floating in the surface tension, especially in calm water and sunny conditions. I don’t think FC sinks readily enough to pull under the surface a well floating fly, although it may be a factor with waterlogged or otherwise marginal flies. My objection is just the stiffness, which complicates a drag-free drift.

I’ve used it a good bit and the sinking doesn’t seem to be a problem (I agree with RW’s comment about it), but FC does appear to break more easily at the knot. Maybe that’s a function of its stiffness, but I believe FC’s advantage in visibility is outweighed by its stiffness, relative fragility at the knot, and expense. Bob

Response:

Yes, you can see it.  Quite well, aamof.  But, my experience with Orvis FC and Orvis Superstrength is just the opposite of what you note.  Went from 5x Superstrength to 5x FC and caught fish immediately.  I like it for nymphing because it holds up better to abrasion from rocks.

Funny, last year I took along the Orvis FC to the Salmon R, & it seemed to suffer more abrasion than plain mono.   So much so, I almost abandoned fluorocarbon for fear that all the surface abrasion would negate the refractive advantages.   (Then again this was 2x stuff, so it was a lot more visible to begin with.) Joe F.

Response:

I just recevied the three forks 3wt rod I ordered, and I went to try it out. It was much easier to cast than my 20 dollar wal*mart rod. It seems to have a pretty slow action, which is nice after casting the broomstick like shakespear. I was wondering, what size tippet to use for 14-18 size dry flies?

After buying a new rod, that is exactly what I wonder too. Depends on how bushy the flies are and other conditions.  Experiment.  Use a tippet that will cast the fly where you want it, but not stiff enough to lay out straight.  Start with, say, 5x and see if it curls up nicely for you.

Response:

Al Hammel mentioned fluorocarbon in a negative way. I agree. Don’t use fluorocarbon for dry flies. It’s too stiff.

reasons not to use flourocarbon: 1) too stiff for many purposes (harder to make a drag free float) 2) more expensive 3) hardness makes good knots elusive: IE the line doesn’t break, but    knots often unravel 4) the stiffness of the line can cause hellatious tangles.    …accidentally bounce the leader off a branch and you often    reel back a monstrous spider web. 5) environmental pollution:    nylon absorbs water and breaks down with UV exposure.    nylon lasts a long time, but flourocarbon lasts (by comparison) forever.

Response:

"while_1" reasons not to use flourocarbon: 1) too stiff for many purposes (harder to make a drag free float) 2) more expensive 3) hardness makes good knots elusive: IE the line doesn’t break, but    knots often unravel 4) the stiffness of the line can cause hellatious tangles.    …accidentally bounce the leader off a branch and you often    reel back a monstrous spider web. 5) environmental pollution:    nylon absorbs water and breaks down with UV exposure.    nylon lasts a long time, but flourocarbon lasts (by comparison)

forever. Nearly all of the above reasons would have been true of the first generation of Fluorocarbon that came on the market. I suggest you try some of the newer stuff, it is much better and in many cases is superior on many levels to mono. 1) The new generation stuff is more supple than many equivalent monos. 2) Yep it is, but as you don’t have to refresh your stocks each season it can be more value for money for many. 3) This has been pretty much negated. 4) The stiffness has gone. 5) Mono isn’t exactly environmentally friendly either. The onus is on the angler to ensure adequate cleanup of excess pieces. In a reality sense the length of time flouro stays on snag isn’t all that different to mono. Clark Clark

Response:

Nearly all of the above reasons would have been true of the first generation of Fluorocarbon that came on the market. I suggest you try some of the newer stuff, it is much better and in many cases is superior on many levels to mono.

The "selling point" of fluorocarbon (FC) is that’s it’s less visible underwater than because its index of refraction is closer to that of water than is the index of refraction of mono. I assume we’re all agreed on that. (It’s definitely not the price Some time ago I looked up the indices of refraction of "typical" FC and mono and compared them to that of fresh water. Sure enough, the FC was closer, but it wasn’t THAT MUCH closer — maybe halfway. I didn’t save the numbers and I don’t feel like looking them up at the moment. If it had been SPOT ON, I would have been impressed, but it wasn’t. The physics and neurophysics of what makes something more or less "visible" are complex. I was still skeptical about the claim. Then I took a length of FC and a length of mono (same diameters), put them into a glass of water, and looked at them. They looked about the same. After that, I was even more skeptical, and I remain so. We’ve heard anecdotal stories about how no one was catching fish, then someone switched to FC and started catching, and then everyone else switched and everyone started catching like crazy. I don’t put any credence at all on those stories. The same damn thing might happen for any number of other reasons.

Response:

"rw" < – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The "selling point" of fluorocarbon (FC) is that’s it’s less visible underwater than because its index of refraction is closer to that of water than is the index of refraction of mono. I assume we’re all agreed on that. (It’s definitely not the price Some time ago I looked up the indices of refraction of "typical" FC and mono and compared them to that of fresh water. Sure enough, the FC was closer, but it wasn’t THAT MUCH closer — maybe halfway. I didn’t save the numbers and I don’t feel like looking them up at the moment. If it had been SPOT ON, I would have been impressed, but it wasn’t. The physics and neurophysics of what makes something more or less "visible" are complex. I was still skeptical about the claim. Then I took a length of FC and a length of mono (same diameters), put them into a glass of water, and looked at them. They looked about the same. After that, I was even more skeptical, and I remain so. We’ve heard anecdotal stories about how no one was catching fish, then someone switched to FC and started catching, and then everyone else switched and everyone started catching like crazy. I don’t put any credence at all on those stories. The same damn thing might happen for any number of other reasons.

I would agree to some degree with your conclusions. I don’t think the differences are THAT huge. But I think there are differences and times will arise where one will give you an advantage over the other. I don’t believe either material is perfect in  certain circumstances one will out perform the other. Having said that. My preliminary results using the new Super-Flouro is pretty encouraging. I’m not using it totally exclusively, but at the moment that’s only because I haven’t to been able to get it in all the sizes I want. I think I will but that doesn’t mean I wont find situations where I wont find a situation where I’ll want to use mono anymore either. Clark

Response:

I guess I’m going to have to call that last fisherman I had this fall and ask him what brand of flouro he was using as there was a HUGE difference in visibility of the flouro vs mono. The flouro was extremely visible even through 18" to 24" of river water. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nearly all of the above reasons would have been true of the first generation of Fluorocarbon that came on the market. I suggest you try some of the newer stuff, it is much better and in many cases is superior on many levels to mono. The "selling point" of fluorocarbon (FC) is that’s it’s less visible underwater than because its index of refraction is closer to that of water than is the index of refraction of mono. I assume we’re all agreed on that. (It’s definitely not the price Some time ago I looked up the indices of refraction of "typical" FC and mono and compared them to that of fresh water. Sure enough, the FC was closer, but it wasn’t THAT MUCH closer — maybe halfway. I didn’t save the numbers and I don’t feel like looking them up at the moment. If it had been SPOT ON, I would have been impressed, but it wasn’t. The physics and neurophysics of what makes something more or less "visible" are complex. I was still skeptical about the claim. Then I took a length of FC and a length of mono (same diameters), put them into a glass of water, and looked at them. They looked about the same. After that, I was even more skeptical, and I remain so. We’ve heard anecdotal stories about how no one was catching fish, then someone switched to FC and started catching, and then everyone else switched and everyone started catching like crazy. I don’t put any credence at all on those stories. The same damn thing might happen for any number of other reasons.

Response:

  Al Hammel mentioned fluorocarbon in a negative way. I agree. Don’t use   fluorocarbon for dry flies. It’s too stiff. I don’t use it for nymphing   either, because I think the putative benefits are nonexistant, or at   least are so miniscule that they don’t justify the expense and bother. I used some of the second generation stuff on the Juan this year and it’s very strong, tough stuff. I’m as cheap as they come and I’m willing to pay the price. Willi

Response:

I just recevied the three forks 3wt rod I ordered, and I went to try it out. It was much easier to cast than my 20 dollar wal*mart rod. It seems to have a pretty slow action, which is nice after casting the broomstick like shakespear. I was wondering, what size tippet to use for 14-18 size dry flies? Thanks, ALex

Response:

4x to 5x works well.  I am leary of flourocarbon.  The stuff reminds me of the gas that breaks down the ozone in solid form.  Presentation is everything.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just recevied the three forks 3wt rod I ordered, and I went to try it out. It was much easier to cast than my 20 dollar wal*mart rod. It seems to have a pretty slow action, which is nice after casting the broomstick like shakespear. I was wondering, what size tippet to use for 14-18 size dry flies? Thanks, ALex

Response:

I just recevied the three forks 3wt rod I ordered, and I went to try it out. It was much easier to cast than my 20 dollar wal*mart rod. It seems to have a pretty slow action, which is nice after casting the broomstick like shakespear. I was wondering, what size tippet to use for 14-18 size dry flies?

5x normally. If the conditions are really difficult (very clear, smooth water, bright sunlight, picky fish) then 6x might be better. Al Hammel mentioned fluorocarbon in a negative way. I agree. Don’t use fluorocarbon for dry flies. It’s too stiff. I don’t use it for nymphing either, because I think the putative benefits are nonexistant, or at least are so miniscule that they don’t justify the expense and bother.

Response:

Question:

Paul Goodwin writes: I’ld have to say that Waynes post get’s my vote for the best ever clave report. That’s for sure!  A wonderful wordsmith is our wayno.  "Piss running down a handicap ramp" — not exactly a sentence you get to use very often.  Well done, counselor.

Must have been long enough that it got lost somewhere, I never saw it on bellsouth.net. I’ll just have to take everyone’s word for it that it had internal rhythm. <g — Charlie…

Response:

Charlie Choc: Must have been long enough that it got lost somewhere, I never saw it on bellsouth.net. I’ll just have to take everyone’s word for it that it had internal rhythm. <g — Charlie…

I didn’t get it on aol, and it wasn’t posted on Newsone.net.  I had to go to deja.com to get a copy of it.  And yes, it *is* long, but very funny with wonderful "internal rythm".  Got some external stuff too. Dave

Response:

I didn’t get it on aol, and it wasn’t posted on Newsone.net.  I had to go to deja.com to get a copy of it.  And yes, it *is* long, but very funny with wonderful "internal rythm".  Got some external stuff too.

It is good, Tom Brown email’d me a copy (thanks Tom, and Wayno too<g). — Charlie…

Response:

<snipped for bandwidth conservation ONLY) Excellent dissertation Mr. Harrison!!! — All fishermen are liars ‘cept you n me, and I’m starting to have doubts about you! www.fishticker.com

Response:

i had to repeat damn near everything i said, even though i was talkin loud enough to be heard next door.

That’s cause New Englanders all talk funny. They gotta put the cah in the gahrage and then go get some chowdah. happily i had a little time to read some exciting new law review articles,

Ain’t any such thing. i am certain that the promising new business relationships i nurtured during my time in maine will help reward your efforts.

Little wayno’s Outfitters (We Never Close) is moving north? Gonna surround yourself with yankees? In a land where you can’t get grits nohow, not even the instant kind at the Safeway? "Goddamn, well I declare! Have you seen the like?Their walls are  built from  cannonballs; their motto is ‘don’t tread on me’" -Uncle Jerry

Response:

I’ld have to say that Waynes post get’s my vote for the best ever clave report.

ditto for me, "casting pearls amongst the swine" as it were. Peter

Response:

Paul Goodwin writes: I’ld have to say that Waynes post get’s my vote for the best ever clave report.

That’s for sure!  A wonderful wordsmith is our wayno.  "Piss running down a handicap ramp" — not exactly a sentence you get to use very often.  Well done, counselor. But, the "biggest brookie of my life" was a mere 15 inches.  I am afraid he’d shit his drawers if he got into one of the 22+ inchers!   <g Dave LaCourse, Bottom Dweller, home resting from the terrible ordeal of leading a bunch of reprobates on my home waters, but ready to go back

Response:

I’ld have to say that Waynes post get’s my vote for the best ever clave report.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – to:  eleni t. harrison 5216 michaux rd greensboro, nc 27410 tuesday, sept [snip] ah beeyuh budeeyuh budeeyuh;  that’s all, folks… your friend in the old north state wayno

Response:

You forgot a couple:        to:  irs, audit division        regional office        raleigh, n.c. to whom it may concern: as an attorney in good standing with n.c. bar, i resent your implication that i would in any way misuse the u.s. tax code, including the generous deductions allowed by the rules governing business entertainment deductions.  you have, i feel, improperly disallowed a large number of deductions, even medical expense deductions, as a result of a trip taken for the purposes of interviewing prospective clients.  let me assure you that every name on the attached list (styled "state’s exhibit a") is now, or shortly will be, in need of professional help.   as to the expenses, "misc:," again, let me assure you that all were legitimate.  for example, one expense, "$250.00 – Translator and translation expenses," was an absolute necessity, but unfortunately, those ill-spoken yankees don’t even understand money, and would only accept payment in the form of alcoholic beverages, hence, the receipt from "Dickey’s Crab House and Package Store." i can further assure you that deduction labeled "$862.50 – dr. hooter’s" is indeed a legitimate medical expense, as several in the party were dire need of attention at the close of the trip.  while i understand the reluctance to accept a receipt on a cocktail napkin, i cannot control the use of business forms by the medical profession. in closing, please free to contact me at any time should you need further supporting documentation.  further, i will be happy to personally recreate the entire trip, including reassembling the persons relevant, should you desire to send an investigator to personally the instant facts of the case at bar. i remain, a. wayne harrison             to:  all managing partners of             harrison, north, cooke and landreth, attorneys at law             221 commerce st             greensboro, nc 27401 gentlemen: "kinder, gentler irs", my ass!  get me the hell outta here! waiting, a. wayne harrison

Response:

        to:  eleni t. harrison         5216 michaux rd         greensboro, nc 27410         tuesday, sept         well, dovins, me and the kid from raleigh (by way of utah) made it to portland safe and sound.  flying in from the ocean side, the harbor looked just like a giant goldfish pond, ringed with rocks, and dotted with tiny sails.  ol louie showed up with a handmade sign and groucho glasses.  he didn’t need a fake nose.         we drove across the state at a crisp rate, with the audi humming, feeling taut and confident as this wonderful old bastard carried us ever deeper into the woods of maine, with brittle, entertaining chatter flowing from all inside, to dissapate among the spruce by the roadside along with the gasses from the twin pipes.  the houses seemed to line the roads like spectators at a race, no more than one or two lines deep, pressed close upon us by the dark green trees and rising hills.  the buildings themselves were surprisingly delicate, and reminded me of the farmhouses of the old money families from the rowan county hinterlands.  i would have thought the weight of north country winters would have made for sterner, rougher homes.          we stopped in a little burg called norway to buy some emergency waders.  the wooden floors creaked as we entered, and the accents of the owner and the occupants might as well have come from argentina; they were strangers to my unaccustomed ear.  but the smiles weren’t forced, and i left with the memories of nearly fifty years ago, when i walked out of the same kind of place with my first fly rod in my hand, with hopes of fish captured pulling me toward the car.         we arrived at lake richardson with the audi clicking as she cooled from the workout, and motored steadily across a gorgeous body of water, gin clear from edge to center, and held together by the lovely, sloping hills that pass for mountains way up here.  we could see the camp in the distance, little brown cabins hunkered down together, pressed closely by the bright red barn of the damkeeper on one end and a bright white stand of birches on the other.  we could see the figures awaiting our arrival at the dock, and i soon could make out the familiar figure of indian joe mcintosh and two females. one of them, short and bright eyed, welcomed us with fearless enthusiasm and hugs that shattered any suggestion that we could be strangers.  the second figure was taller; thin, almost delicate, with a smile just barely broader than the mona lisa.  her name, it turned out, was joanne lacourse; the wife of the luckiest sonofabitch in new england.  her companion was dene mcintosh, who could turn a wake into the best damn party you ever were fortunate enough to attend.         getting settled was as easy as finding your way back to a place you have been before, with just enough time since your last visit to make the homecoming a surprise.  peetah charles showed up, and jeff conelly, with his friend benet (pronounced "benay").  and thank god, there was ol jeffy miller, pride of the greenville nc bar, and a man who loves his whiskey almost as much as his time on the water.         the next morning i was awakened by the dulcet tones of louie’s voice, gently chiding me to come to breakfast.  after a bracing shower, i joined our little band for a terrific breakfast, served by a charming, hard working young lady named kessie.  our crowd and a pair of older marrieds were the only guests at the lodge, and meals were both delicious and quiet.  they served a dessert called "lemon pudding" that is sure to show up on the next federal controlled substances list, ranked just after crack cocaine in degree of danger.         peetah and i walked about twenty minutes downstream to a place where the river flows into a second lake, much smaller than the one on which the main camp lies, called by the locals "pond in the river", or simply "pondy".  the river mouth was split by an island, which was reached by boat, capt. lacourse at the oars, and we fished there most of the morning.  i caught the largest brook trout of my life on a streamer, thrashing the water with a sinking line and stripping in as if i was churning butter.  the place itself was right out of a chet reneson water color; the first loon i’ve ever seen was fishing in the pond.  it was a much larger bird than i had expected, but its call was wonderously haunting, just as i had hoped.         during the evening’s socializing i found that dene and joanne had been exploring the lake in kayaks available at the camp.  they were excited about the experience, and when i expressed some interest in sharing their next excursion, the roff navy was born.  in the morning after breakfast we pointed the bows of our seaworthy crafts toward the rising sun and double paddled into legend.  the surface of the lake was flat and slick as cellophane, and you could look clear through the water at every depth.  the peace and beauty of the trip was punctuated with a few narrow escapes as joanne, our human torpedo, became directionally challenged from time to time.  admiral mcintosh led our initial assault on a starkly beautiful rock island in the center of the bay, and concluded our invasion successfully by, um, christening its granite surface.  you would get along wonderfully with these two terrific women, and i can’t wait for the day that you all get together.         the rest of the trip has been fascinating, highlighted by the arrival of the three daves and salmon fly, yankees but decent fellers every one.  we had a helluva bonfire at lakeside, but i was tired and missed the last of the revelry.  you know how i have been trying to reduce my alchohol consumption, and i take your advice in the matter to heart, of course.         one more thing:  if lakewood camps were located fifty miles south of asheville, it would be the prettiest place in the country; but even though it’s north of the mason dixon, it’s no worse than second place.  and david lacourse and his incredible wife made the entire experience unforgettable.  their energy and concern for the needs of all of us was a wonder.         as i write this, zimbo and i are seated in the cincinnati airport, waiting for the last section of the long flight that will bring me back to you and the kiddles.  give them a hug from the old man, and don’t wait up for me.         love         awh         to:  james mcdonald roberts         132 court street         greenville nc 2499         james:  what a goddam trip.  i met up with that kid i told you about that makes the great little bamboo rods so early on tuesday am that i felt like a freaking rooster.  the guy’s name is zimmerman, but i call him zimbo.  helluva good kid, and so damn excited about this chance to catch something bigger than a goldfish that he reminded me of keith sedberry the night sweet virginia overman promised him a little leg behind the sigma chi house, back in ‘68.         we got to maine about midday after an obviously meaningless trip to cincinnati.  damn airlines must be run by yankee republicans. anyway, ol louie laplac damn near burnt that silver audi to a crisp on those little two laners across the southern tip of maine.  i didn’t know if zimbo was gonna shit or throwup, but you could have gotten even money on both.  we had to stop at some godforsaken little sporting goods store in podunk maine where everybody was mumblin about "neah" and "fah" and kept ending every sentence with "a-yuh" or some such yankee shit.  i had to repeat damn near everything i said, even though i was talkin loud enough to be heard next door.         well, we drive i mean *deep* into the evergreens and long, sloping hills, with birches everywhere, great looking country, no doubt.  we cross this beautiful lake, and arrive at our destination, a group of little cabins all bunched together, leaning up against each other at differerent angles, like if you open the bathroom door and don’t block it with a rock the damn thing slams shut before you can get inside.  anyway, we get there, and beside ol injun joe and peetah, who you have met before, there are these two great lookin chicks who turn out to be married to ij and louie.  that’s the good news.  the bad news is they are hopelessly in love with the two old fools, and have about as much use for me as tits on a boar hog.  oh, well, they were still tons of fun, and good sports to boot.         ol jeffy was there, and met me at the dock with a fresh see-through.  i swear that boy is as good as pitt county has to give. and fishes his *ass* off, i mean.         the fishing is the damndest thing you have ever seen.  big, i mean *big* f***in trout and salmon, but you got to fish with these tiny damn flies just like you read about in fly fisherman magazine, and if you catch one of the bastards they laugh and turn inexorably toward the fast current, and bingo—tie on another teeny weeny.  and when i mean fast current, i am *not* kidding you.  damn place makes hazel creek look like piss runnin down a handicap ramp.  you wade that water, you die.  the deal is you fish in about a thirty yard semi-circle, pounding that water relentlessly, changing flies if you don’t hook up.  i swear to god peetah charles must have tossed the entire f***ing inventory of a fair sized orvis shop in the water at this crowd of salmon that fed all day on bugs so tiny you couldn’t see em.  he caught, in his inimitable terminology, "the odd fish", and he is damn good.  but, it is a challenge, and the feeling you get when one of those freight trains hooks you up and heads for the black runs can’t be matched in the appalachians.  and you should have seen the newbie from utah.  if he wasn’t fishin, he was talkin about fishin. he did really well.  quick learner, and fun travel with, even though it’s safe to say that you and he have …different tastes….which reminds me:  jesus, did i get smashed every night.  if it weren’t for the fact that the power goes off all over camp automatically at 11:30 every night, my liver would have called 911.         and, hell man, the place

… read more »

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Question:

   In the first place Mike didn’t do anything any decent person would have done. I sent an E-mail to Dianna telling her my opinion of the article and received a reply which was negative and did not sound like her.  I did not know about the injury to her husband and the pressure she was under at the time.  As the Editor she did have a responsibility to place a disclaimer to state FAOL’s position on Old Ruff’s article, which she did not do.  This made it appear that they condoned this inflammatory article.  Then she removed the negative comments about it from FAOL which further indicated FAOL’s position was to agree with the article.  Deanna made some serious errors and her actions led to the current situation.    Mike’s reputation is even better with me because he has the courage of his convictions.  If I had to chose between Mike and FAOL, Mike would win every time. Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a certain reputation to uphold here, and elsewhere.< Not any more. Oh, I think Mike still enjoys a pretty good reputation on ROFF.  Of course, my supposition hinges on the assumption that you don’t speak for all of us…….I could be wrong.

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ROFF is the one place, FAOL cannot censor opposing points of view. < And one YOU cannot censor.

And what have I censored? bc.

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HRBlain writes: I could be wrong.< You often are.

Careful, HR, or you’ll end up in Bmabia, which is right next to Bmalia.  In fact, they share the same fire and police dpts.  The young ladies in Bmabia, however, are small titted, unlike the lucious dolls of Bmalia.  Something about the water I suspect. Dave L.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike,   Ok, already! Perhaps it is only me, but I see no need to burden ROFF with ongoing matters on FAOL. For days on end, we get a bombardment of threads, the vast majority started by yourself, to discuss your beef with folks who don’t regularly contribute here. Wasn’t it you who had to depart us once before over needless bulk caused by other threads? You seem to be taken with the need to justify on this forum why you shouldn’t be blamed for the demise(if indeed such happens)of FAOL. It is perfectly rational that some blame you. Get over it. Get back to the insightful and well written stuff that has endeared you to many. I miss your angling writing, and hope not to offend with these observations.                         regards,                          Tom Littleton "Every now and then when your life gets complicated and the weasels start closing in, the only real cure is to load up on heinous chemicals and then drive like a bastard from Hollywood to Las Vegas."

Tom: I am little more than a lurker here with very few posts to my credit. I have, however, read Mr. Connors and many others posts over the last 6 months. In this time I’ve found him to be free with his knowledge, a prolific contributor to the group, and above all, a reasonable and courteous gentleman. He now finds himself in a position of being slandered, quoted out of context, and generally maligned by persons who aren’t qualified to carry his creel. His integrity has been called in to question by persons with less than honourable methods. I think he has handled himself with more restraint than I could. If he feels that posting to a public forum is the best way to defend his name, I am willing to afford him some lattitude. IMHO, ROFF is a forum for educated (formal or otherwise) and sometimes opinionated, gentleman to gather for thought provoking discussion with fly fishing being the tie that binds (if not always the main topic <G). When I get tired of a thread I just move to the next subject header. Rick O. "Children are born with an innate sense of justice; it usually takes twelve years of public schooling and four more years of college to beat it out of them." "Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell."

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Like I said in another post… "Crusty Factor" — Michael Era

Question:

I am in Lake in the Hills, IL, and although the air near my house is thick with the scent of blooming clover, I have seen no bees, honey, bumble or otherwise.

Interesting. I’m quite close to you (Lake Zurich, IL) and our bee population seems fine… Network Administrator                         Phone: (847) 491-3691 MEAS, Northwestern University Evanston, IL                            http://www.tech.nwu.edu/support

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Here in Syracuse, NY, no honey bees for the last 2 or 3 years.  There seem to be a LOT of bumblebees now, though.

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Seems the same around here as the past two years. No, I take that back. Slightly better. I saw a honey bee last week. That’s only one, count it, one, bee. (*sob!*) But then that’s a few weeks earlier than last two years…. But I have two resident bumblebee nests this year (Yay!), and they did a nice job pollinating my raspberries! Through deer netting even! DT zone 5/6

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I am in Lake in the Hills, IL, and although the air near my house is thick with the scent of blooming clover, I have seen no bees, honey, bumble or otherwise.

Interesting. I’m quite close to you (Lake Zurich, IL) and our bee population seems fine… Odds are that you have a beekeeper near you. Dave Green   Heminway, SC   29554 http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html

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Lots of honeybees here in the Finger Lakes area of NY. I had to laugh watching them on the chive flowers-their weight slowly bending the chive to the ground. All of our fruit trees are loaded with fruit too, unlike last year. — These opinions are mine and you have to get your own.. Judy Scott Cornell University Ithaca, NY

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I didn’t see any honey bees at all.  However, we’ve been having summer squashed producing very well, sunburst, crookneck, yellow, and pale green zukes plus cucumbers.  We’ve also been picking pole beans for 4 week now.  We live in Southern California.  I wondered how these goodies pollinated.  I saw only one bumblebee in the garden, she looked real busy, though, it’s hard to believe that she could do all the works. Until this morning, I went to dump kitchen scrap to the compost pile and notice 2 fat and fuzzy honey bees got real busy inside a male squash blossom.  The mystery was solved and I’m so happy to spot them.  We both work full time with two little children so we can only work in the garden after coming home from work and on the weekends.  I guess the bees like to feed in private! Happy gardening, Ning Ridenoure (sorry, no e-mail)

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I didn’t see any honey bees at all.  

I’ve got a question. I know that Sevin is toxic to bees, and I don’t use it because of that fact.  I’ve been trying out less toxic pesticides, but I wonder whether they may also harm bees?  Specifically, I’m using pyrethrin spray, sulfur spray as a fungicide on my roses, and Neem oil to repel Japanese beetles.  Do any of these harm bees?  I have just planted fruit trees this year, so I know we’ll need some bees to pollinate.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just saw 2 in my garden!!! I think they are honeybees, the kind we used to call "yellowjackets" as a kid…Is this the right kind????  My tomatoes are flowering, so are the taters, not much else yet, but I am about the only place in the neighborhood that doesnt spray as far as I can tell, so maybe they rest in my yard : ) LauraA Hi Laura.  Yellowjackets aren’t honeybees.  Honeybees are fat little rascals, and brownish, generally.  Yellowjackets are skinny and have yellowish parts to them.  I <think the honeybee population is threatened by an infestation of lice which get into their hives and kill them.  All the more reason to avois spraying other bees and wasps unless they are in a place where there is a lot of traffic, or unless there are little kids around.  We need the pollinators.  John Reiner. Southwestern Illinois, 8 Miles East of the Confluence of the Miss & Mo Rivers USDA Zone 6, Border of Zone 5

John, It’s mites, not lice, that are killing the bees, although this subtle difference is only important to beekeepers, I’m sure.  (And to those of us who are, because of the mites, former beekeepers — a temporary condition I hope!!) Steve  (Maritime Climate — USDA Zone irrelevant)

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This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just saw 2 in my garden!!! I think they are honeybees, the kind we used to call "yellowjackets" as a kid…Is this the right kind????  My tomatoes are flowering, so are the taters, not much else yet, but I am about the only place in the neighborhood that doesnt spray as far as I can tell, so maybe they rest in my yard : ) LauraA

Hi Laura.  Yellowjackets aren’t honeybees.  Honeybees are fat little rascals, and brownish, generally.  Yellowjackets are skinny and have yellowish parts to them.  I <think the honeybee population is threatened by an infestation of lice which get into their hives and kill them.  All the more reason to avois spraying other bees and wasps unless they are in a place where there is a lot of traffic, or unless there are little kids around.  We need the pollinators.  John Reiner. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="jrsig.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="jrsig.txt" Southwestern Illinois, 8 Miles East of the Confluence of the Miss & Mo Rivers USDA Zone 6, Border of Zone 5

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I just saw 2 in my garden!!! I think they are honeybees, the kind we used to call "yellowjackets" as a kid…Is this the right kind????  My tomatoes are flowering, so are the taters, not much else yet, but I am about the only place in the neighborhood that doesnt spray as far as I can tell, so maybe they rest in my yard : ) LauraA

Yellowjackets are a kind of wasp.  They are bright yellow and not fuzzy. Honeybees are various shades of yellow-brown and golden brown and are fuzzy.  (Bumblebees are fat and usually black or brown, often with a lighter-colored patch on the last segment(s).) And for all you asparagus growers, I saw a queen yellowjacket busily removing asparagus beetle larvae from my plants the other day.   Yellojackets are indiscriminate predators of other insects but adults will often stop by a flower for a quick drink of high-energy nectar.   Honeybees eat only nectar and pollen as a general rule. Steve  (Maritime Climate — USDA Zone irrelevant)

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Last year the news was full of stories of how the bees in the US were all suffering from a mite infestation and we were all going to starve because the bees wouldn’t be around to polinate our crops. This year, not a peep. So, what’s up? — The opinions expressed in this message are my own and are not the opinions of anyone who does not hold those opinions.

Response:

Last year the news was full of stories of how the bees in the US were all suffering from a mite infestation and we were all going to starve because the bees wouldn’t be around to polinate our crops. This year, not a peep. So, what’s up? —

   In my piedmont NC garden I havn’t seen a single honey bee this year or last.  Lots of bumble bees have taken their place so the number of bees about is about the same. — Lloyd Fortney http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney/ has links to my garden, flower, flyfishing, and travel JPEG images as well as teaching, research, and stuff like that

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I am in Rochester, N.Y. and S. Dansville, N.Y. and also have not seen any honey bees, but the bumble bees are numerous and huge.   Linda Woodward – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last year the news was full of stories of how the bees in the US were all suffering from a mite infestation and we were all going to starve because the bees wouldn’t be around to polinate our crops. This year, not a peep. So, what’s up? —

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Much better!!  Last year we saw NO honeybees at all here in MA, but this year they’re everywhere…..lots of honeybees, and all other kinds, too! Speaking of bee-popluations, did anyone hear of the recent study that says that mint may kill the mites that have been destroying the bee larvae?  I don’t know the URL offhand, sorry, but it was interesting. (maybe websearch under bees and mint?) -Kay

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Last year the news was full of stories of how the bees in the US were all suffering from a mite infestation and we were all going to starve because the bees wouldn’t be around to polinate our crops. This year, not a peep. So, what’s up?

A plague of bees in Houston. Bees everywhere – including my attic! You want ‘em? <g — The Marfa Mystery Lights: http://www.concentric.net/~Slaroche/MARFA.HTM (By sending me unsolicited commercial email, you agree to the Terms and Conditions as listed here: http://www.concentric.net/~Slaroche/SPAM.HTM)

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I am in Rochester, N.Y. and S. Dansville, N.Y. and also have not seen any honey bees, but the bumble bees are numerous and huge.   Linda Woodward

I am in Lake in the Hills, IL, and although the air near my house is thick with the scent of blooming clover, I have seen no bees, honey, bumble or otherwise. It’s depressing.         Paul

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Last year the news was full of stories of how the bees in the US were all suffering from a mite infestation and we were all going to starve because the bees wouldn’t be around to polinate our crops. This year, not a peep. So, what’s up? -We are supposed to have a shortage in Mich.,but my Hawthorne tree is loaded with them,

also salvia plants, nepeta, even in the Iris blooms. They seem to be all over the grounds. Barb- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The opinions expressed in this message are my own and are not the opinions of anyone who does not hold those opinions.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Goodrich) writes: Last year the news was full of stories of how the bees in the US were all suffering from a mite infestation and we were all going to starve because the bees wouldn’t be around to polinate our crops. This year, not a peep. So, what’s up? -We are supposed to have a shortage in Mich.,but my Hawthorne tree is loaded with them, also salvia plants, nepeta, even in the Iris blooms. They seem to be all over the grounds.

   A lot depends on whether you have a local beekeeper, and what his/her patterns of bee movement are.  Beekeepers have striven mightily to replenish the bees lost the year before.  Beekeepers who overwintered bees in the midwest and northeast were relieved to see fairly good survival, nothing like the terrible winter of ‘95-96.      Many more northern bees (than usual) were taken south by the commercial beekeepers, because they didn’t want to risk another winter of terrible losses.    Many of the replacement bees are raised in the southeast and gulf coast area for northern beekeepers.  This spring was a rather mild one, and quite good for raising bees.  We shipped many, many truckloads of bees north out of South Carolina.  It’s not always possible with multiple loads but most beekeepers aim to have the bees back by dandelion bloom, which is closely followed by apple and pear bloom.    Many of the commercial beekeepers take the bees into fruit orchards for contract pollination, then put them out for honey production.    The bees you see may have ridden from Louisiana, Florida, or South Carolina to a Michigan orchard for two or three weeks, then were placed in a bee yard near you to catch the black locust, and later clover bloom.    Gardeners would be wise to be aware of beekeeper activity around them, which may not be easy, since some beekeepers are quite secretive. Beekeepers are wary, because so many folks are terrified of bees (especially since the Hollywood "killer bee" movies), and they fear vandalism, or community efforts to chase them out.  Gardeners ought to be smarter than this.  You might even share some of your bounty with him or her.  Commercial beekeeping becomes so intense in the spring, that few have any time to garden themselves, yet they make it possible for others.    I can certainly see the difference in this area in gardens.  I know where the bees are.  You can draw half-mile circles around the bee locations and state that within this area it is possible to grow quality melons, cantaloupe, butter beans, cukes and squash.  Outside the circle, it’s pretty iffy, unless you happen to have a bumblebee nest.  But bumblebees may only have 50 bees in the nest, and they don’t travel far.    But I am also saddened to see so many blooming butter beans, cukes, squash and other plants plastered white with Sevin dust, a violation of the label directions. We report violations on larger acreages, but mostly ignore them on gardens. Why do folks bite the hand that feeds them?  -A little knowledge, a little care, and the bees will be protected……    All in all, honeybee populations are certainly not restored to the levels of 1950 for sure, but they are quite improved from last year, wherever there are beekeepers. There is still a shortage, but not as bad, and we are becoming ever more efficient at commercial crop pollination.    If there are no kept bees, it may still be quite barren.  I have to supress a laugh every time I see a post about "attracting" honeybees.  You can’t attract what isn’t there; the energy would be better spent in attracting a beekeeper.    In a few areas wild solitary bees have increased, and may fill in gaps here and there.  But overall, the wild bees have also dwindled.  They have no protection from pesticide misuse, where honeybees may be defended by a human.    Another encouraging trend is the number of brand new beekeepers.  Many of these are in suburban environments and have started one or a few hives for the first time ever.  Bee equipment supply houses are having a banner year, with all the new startups.  I hope that some of these hobby beekeepers will go on to resupply the dwindling supply of commercial beekeepers.  I am 52, and I am usually one of the youngest at beekeeper meetings. Dave Green     Hemingway, SC   29554 Practical Pollination Page   http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html

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Last year the news was full of stories of how the bees in the US were all suffering from a mite infestation and we were all going to starve because the bees wouldn’t be around to polinate our crops. This year, not a peep. So, what’s up? — The opinions expressed in this message are my own and are not the opinions of anyone who does not hold those opinions.

Last year I did not see a single honeybee, though we have lots of bumblebees and carpenter bees, and zillions of various little bee/wasp types in the flowers. This year, three separate times, I have seen a single (one) honeybee.         –SB in northern MD

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Nothing yet in central Va.  Breaks my heart

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Last year I didn’t see many … this year (I have many, many more flowers) I see a few every time I’m out working in the gardens.  (I’m in Orlando, FL) http://members.aol.com/wilona1/index.html Pages updated June 6, 1997 – NEW:  Handmade Baby Afghans!!! Gardening – Genealogy – Newsletter – Links

Response:

I just saw 2 in my garden!!! I think they are honeybees, the kind we used to call "yellowjackets" as a kid…Is this the right kind????  My tomatoes are flowering, so are the taters, not much else yet, but I am about the only place in the neighborhood that doesnt spray as far as I can tell, so maybe they rest in my yard : ) LauraA

Response:

(snip)    I can certainly see the difference in this area in gardens.  I know where the bees are.  You can draw half-mile circles around the bee locations and state that within this area it is possible to grow quality melons, cantaloupe, butter beans, cukes and squash.  Outside the circle, it’s pretty iffy, unless you happen to have a bumblebee nest.  But bumblebees may only have 50 bees in the nest, and they don’t travel far.    But I am also saddened to see so many blooming butter beans, cukes, squash and other plants plastered white with Sevin dust, a violation of the label directions. We report violations on larger acreages, but mostly ignore them on gardens. Why do folks bite the hand that feeds them?  -A little knowledge, a little care, and the bees will be protected……

(snip) An excellent observation.  I don’t think most people who apply broad-spectrum pesticides really appreciate how necessary "good" bugs are to their gardens. (and maybe even some "bad" bugs, too) Even a huge jungle forest is dependent on birds, animals, and insects for pollination and seed dispersal.  It’s a system, and so are gardens. Killing every insect in a yard – beneficials included – is just plain ignorant. Maybe some good will actually come out of the mite infestation of the insecticide-weakened U. S. honeybee population, if many more people now understand that we NEED those little guys going from flower to flower. Don Chapman Bio/Organics, Inc. Camarillo CA <http://www.bio-organics.com

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I am in Lake in the Hills, IL, and although the air near my house is thick with the scent of blooming clover, I have seen no bees, honey, bumble or otherwise. It’s depressing.

I finally saw some bees today (honey and bumble) in the back yard. Much happier!         Paul

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Last year the news was full of stories of how the bees in the US were all suffering from a mite infestation … <stuff deleted This year, not a peep. So, what’s up?

Adding in comments from a Colorado Front Range garden, rural Boulder County, I too have been very keen on seeing what’s happened to the bees.   There have been a few bumblebees and fewer still of any other kind. My knowledge of entomology is very limited, but the ‘others’ were what my parents in southern Wisconsin call ‘honeybees’.   for what it’s worth … elisa

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Question:

What would the readers recommend for fly patterns.  I am planning to use a floating line with a surface fly for a strike indicator and a midge or scud or brassie for the dropper.  The dropper will be tied to the bend of the surface fly and extend for 1.5 times the depth of the water that I find myself fishing in. What would you recommend for the surface fly/dropper combinations and please include size and color recommendations. Thanks in advance. Dan —  Intel, Corp.  5000 W. Chandler Blvd.  Chandler, AZ  85226

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: What would the readers recommend for fly patterns.  I am planning to use a : floating line with a surface fly for a strike indicator and a midge or scud or : brassie for the dropper.  The dropper will be tied to the bend of the surface : fly and extend for 1.5 times the depth of the water that I find myself fishing : in. : : What would you recommend for the surface fly/dropper combinations and please : include size and color recommendations. If you use a search engine and type "Fly Fishing in Arizona" it should lead you to the home page which is updated (either weekly or monthly) with the latest info on all parts of Arizona. It gives water levels, current conditions, fly patterns, tips for the week, and lots more…great resource.   Good luck and post a trip report. **   Mark Olson           # "In any audience, twenty percent  ** **   Las Vegas Academy    #  minds drift and sixty percent    ** **   Brooks Alumni        #  are actively engaged in sexual   ** **   Class of ‘88         #  fantasies."                      ** **   Member PIEA          #            —Gov. Pete Wilson    **

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Question:

Have fished it many times–was a deadbeat unemployed fella last year and I actually fished it 90 days. Don’t know where you live but before you go make sure you have the water release schedule halfway figured out so as not to ruin your day. Call ahead to the Ozark Angler in Heber Springs. Tell Jeff Hawthorne to tie you up some Red Diablos–the deadliest LRR fly.

Hi How about sharing the fly pattern receipe for the Red Diablo with us.   Thanks. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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- Hello All. I am looking for some info about the Little Red River Where to stay best spots to fish pretty much anything those you who have been there might be able to fill me in on. Thanks in advance Tight Lines Scott

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Have fished it many times–was a deadbeat unemployed fella last year and I actually fished it 90 days. Don’t know where you live but before you go make sure you have the water release schedule halfway figured out so as not to ruin your day. Call ahead to the Ozark Angler in Heber Springs. Tell Jeff Hawthorne to tie you up some Red Diablos–the deadliest LRR fly.

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I’ve been reading Dave Hughes’ book on wet flies.  He, along with others, recommends using Pearsall’s Gossamer silk and Marabou silk floss for tying bodies.  None of the tying supplies catalogs I have carry these items. Does anyone know a good source?   Thanks for any info. Dave Coates — David J. Coates, Ph.D., P.E.      Tel: (310) 276-9070 Metallurgical Engineer            Fax: (310) 276-9390

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I’ve been reading Dave Hughes’ book on wet flies.  He, along with others, recommends using Pearsall’s Gossamer silk and Marabou silk floss for tying bodies.  None of the tying supplies catalogs I have carry these items. Does anyone know a good source?  

Hi Dave Hunters carry thePearsall’s and also some really great Japanese silk as well.  Call them at 800-331-8558, the silk is on page #10. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Path: news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net!news-m01.ny.us.ibm.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds. ans.net!gatech!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.inter netmci.com!in3.uu.net!nntp.wwwi.com!news.genuity.net!news.lafn.org!lafn.org !NewsWatcher!user X-Nntp-Posting-Host: 192.168.14.21 Organization: Los Angeles Free-Net Lines: 13 I’ve been reading Dave Hughes’ book on wet flies.  He, along with others, recommends using Pearsall’s Gossamer silk and Marabou silk floss for tying bodies.  None of the tying supplies catalogs I have carry these items. Does anyone know a good source?   Thanks for any info. Dave Coates — David J. Coates, Ph.D., P.E.      Tel: (310) 276-9070 Metallurgical Engineer            Fax: (310) 276-9390

Dave – with A 310 Area code, you’re in the Santa Monica Arewa, right?? Try Bob Marriott’s in Fullerton- 800-535-6633 for orders and 714-525-1827 for general info. Another source is Hunter’s in New Hampshire…800-331-8558 and there are a lot of others too. Larry #:)#

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Sorry I don’t have the catalog with me, but Blue Ribbon Fly Fishing in West Yellowstone carries the silk you’re looking for. Tight Lines, rd

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National Feather-Craft Co. in St. Louis 1-800-659-1707

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been reading Dave Hughes’ book on wet flies.  He, along with others, recommends using Pearsall’s Gossamer silk and Marabou silk floss for tying bodies.  None of the tying supplies catalogs I have carry these items. Does anyone know a good source? Hi Dave Hunters carry thePearsall’s and also some really great Japanese silk as well.  Call them at 800-331-8558, the silk is on page #10. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

I have personally been down this road before! I have even been in Hunter’s looking for Pearsall’s to no avail. They are only 30 minutes from my house! The problem with the Japanese silk is that it is just fine for tying Salmon flies, but its not as good for tying wets. I tried every source I could find in this area and checked every catalogue I had. And thats a good number! Seems as though most places in the US do not carry this type of silk in the shop. They claim they cannot get rid of it. Either they won’t order in the amount you want or they want you to buy 500 spools. I did find some at the virtual fly shop, but they didn’t have any in stock. Finally, after months of looking around I found a guy at a company called Waters West that ordered it for me in the amount a normal person could buy. He was realy great to deal with and I’d recommend that you call him. His name is Dave Steinbaugh. His number is 1-800-347-4999. He guides out in Yellowstone at this time of year, but I’ve included the numbers I have for him so you should be able to track him down yourself. Waters West 1-360-417-0937(Oct thru Mid May)        1-406-646-9442(Mid May thru Sept) P.O.Box 3241                            P.O.Box 830 Port Angeles, WA 98362                  West Yellowstone, MT 59758 I can’t recommend this guy any higher. He went out of his way to order the silks for me and didn’t charge a high price. As a matter of fact, this price worked out cheaper than the virtual fly shop. Good Luck. Steve — Steven Grainger          | I stalk the wild trout. MRS Technology           | 10 ELizabeth Drive       | Chelmsford, MA.          |

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 I have a nice box of bonefish flies that I’ve used on a recent trip to  the Keys — don’t ask how I did — but I’ve got these Crazy Charlies,  Gotchas and other small size 6, 4, and 1 shrimp flies.  Can they be used  for fresh water fishing?  And what applications might they have in the  coastal areas of Maryland, my other saltwater haunt.  Can they be used  for other fish in the Cheasapeake.  I would love to know if they have  other applications.  I suspect they do.

Do you have any Clouser Minnows?  Both Crazy Charlies and Clousers in Bright colors are said to work for salmon, trout, and stealhead in the Alaska region.  Clousers can also work for stripers sometimes.

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I’ve had alot of success with crazy charlies on my trout homewaters in New Hampshire.  More trout have been taken on them than bonefish for me!  In – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a nice box of bonefish flies that I’ve used on a recent trip to the Keys — don’t ask how I did — but I’ve got these Crazy charlies, Gotchas and other small size 6, 4, and 1 shrimp flies. Can they be used for fresh water fishing? And what applications might they have in the coastal areas of Maryland, my other saltwater haunt. Can they be used for other fish in the Cheasapeake. I would love to know if they have other applications. I suspect they do.

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: I have a nice box of bonefish flies that I’ve used on a recent trip to : the Keys — don’t ask how I did — but I’ve got these Crazy charlies, : Gotchas and other small size 6, 4, and 1 shrimp flies. Can they be used : for fresh water fishing? And what applications might they have in the : coastal areas of Maryland, my other saltwater haunt. Can they be used : for other fish in the Cheasapeake. I would love to know if they have : other applications. I suspect they do.

I’ve taken native brown trout in streams on pink Crazy Charlies. I am looking forward to using them on lake run browns and rainbows in the fall.

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I have a nice box of bonefish flies that I’ve used on a recent trip to the Keys — don’t ask how I did — but I’ve got these Crazy charlies, Gotchas and other small size 6, 4, and 1 shrimp flies. Can they be used for fresh water fishing? And what applications might they have in the coastal areas of Maryland, my other saltwater haunt. Can they be used for other fish in the Cheasapeake. I would love to know if they have other applications. I suspect they do.

They sometimes work on Shad ( running now on both coasts ) and try them in the surf for perch or what ever else. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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Davenport) writes: : I have a nice box of bonefish flies that I’ve used on a recent trip to : the Keys — don’t ask how I did — but I’ve got these Crazy charlies, : Gotchas and other small size 6, 4, and 1 shrimp flies. Can they be used : for fresh water fishing? And what applications might they have in the : coastal areas of Maryland, my other saltwater haunt. Can they be used : for other fish in the Cheasapeake. I would love to know if they have : other applications. I suspect they do.

I understand that Crazy Charlies are a pretty good Carp Fly if that holds any interest for you…….

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I have a nice box of bonefish flies that I’ve used on a recent trip to the Keys — don’t ask how I did — but I’ve got these Crazy charlies, Gotchas and other small size 6, 4, and 1 shrimp flies. Can they be used for fresh water fishing? And what applications might they have in the coastal areas of Maryland, my other saltwater haunt. Can they be used for other fish in the Cheasapeake. I would love to know if they have other applications. I suspect they do.

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: I have a nice box of bonefish flies that I’ve used on a recent trip to : the Keys — don’t ask how I did — but I’ve got these Crazy charlies, : Gotchas and other small size 6, 4, and 1 shrimp flies. Can they be used : for fresh water fishing? And what applications might they have in the : coastal areas of Maryland, my other saltwater haunt. Can they be used : for other fish in the Cheasapeake. I would love to know if they have : other applications. I suspect they do. : : :We have found that the gotchas are great on shad.

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    I’ll be flying through Bozeman or Helena in mid-june and was looking to spend a day or two fly fishing in the area. Does anyone know about getting around in these areas. Are there rivers accessible by public transport or other means? Are there guides in the area who ferry? Also, I was wondering about river conditions there at that time.      thanks in advance, John koon  

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Guides can ferry..but public transportation probably won’t get you to many streams…however, here in Missoula you can have great fishing right downtown…alas, our rivers are very high and will probably be that way for sometime to come..

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   I’ll be flying through Bozeman or Helena in mid-june and was looking to spend a day or two fly fishing in the area. Does anyone know about getting around in these areas. Are there rivers accessible by public transport or other means? Are there guides in the area who ferry? Also, I was wondering about river conditions there at that time.     thanks in advance, John koon  

Hi John I live in Bozeman and public transportation is little and far between. I also guide and often pick my clients up at their motel. I suggest you contact Dave Corcoran at the River’s Edge (or one of his people) 406-586-5373. They can book you with a guide as well as arrange a room accross the street from the store. You would be next door to a couple of restaurants as well. Just walk accross the street, meet your guide, get any supplies you need, ride with the guide to and from the river and at day’s end you can be returned to the store or your motel. When flying into Bozeman it’s about an 8 mile trip from the airport to the motel.   You can call a taxi or have the River’s Edge schedule one to be waiting for you. If you want to fish by your self, there is basically no way without a car. Regarding the rivers:  We are experiencing a very wet, cold spring. Many of our waters will be high and muddy but a guide should be able to get you to fairly good water.  However a bad storm can really mess up the water conditions for a day or so. If you don’t mind the rod fee, you might see if they can get you on one of the spring creeks.  They are not affected as much by rain as the rivers. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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writes: The  Herter’s catalog was the best reading material while siiting on the John  I have found. I still have some of his instruction manuals; i.e. How to stay  married to a bitch, The bull cookbook, The Herter’s guide manual and The  Herter’s Book of Fly and Lure Construction.. Also I have a friend who is still using a #7 vise and a Herter’s Bamboo Planing Jig. Too bad they went out of business. Luck. Ja

I was talking with my dad about a need for a good fishing catalog and he is said that he’s still disappointed that he can’t get a new Herter’s Catalog. "…can’t believe they went out of business. The Netcraft Catalog is about the closest thing left!" Don

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: The  Herter’s catalog was the best reading material while siiting on the : John  I have found. I still have some of his instruction manuals; i.e. How : to stay  married to a bitch, The bull cookbook, The Herter’s guide manual : and The  Herter’s Book of Fly and Lure Construction.. Also I have a friend : who is still using a #7 vise and a Herter’s Bamboo Planing Jig. Too bad : they went out of business. Luck. Jack    I still have my parka purchased from them in 1972. The ad used to    make the sale was terrific – showed a photo of Dr so and so using    Herter’s prime northern goose down parka on his Arctic expedition.    BTW, the parka is great.    I miss them …….

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As I understand it, Herter’s went out of business because they were allegedly involved in some "criminal activity." Problems with IRS and ATF. Say it aint So, George. –Doug Easton Tight Lines and Empty Creels

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I received e-mail that stated Herter’s catalogue can be obtained by calling 800-654-3825. I do not know whether this is a new company or what but I intend to call the number and see. Prehaps ur dad is interested. Stretched leaders. Jack.

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I am planning to get up to the Salmon River in NY in the next few days and I am wondering what conditions are like up there now.  Any Browns or Steelhead in the river?  Water levels – I heard it was high…has it dropped any?  I’d really appreciate an E-Mail or a posting.

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hell i even bought skis from that catalog…it was great fun to leaf thru…. craig

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Bob, Check out the following URL for exellent up to date info: http://www.maine.com:80/fish-ny/ Jim Walker will help you out with very near term conditions if you ask nicely. (and mail him 10 bucks) Right Jim? Bill Althoff

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Just a curiosity… Who all out there cut their fly tying teeth on George Leonard Herter’s big thick yellow book (you know the one…It’s where geo. said he invented all the fly patterns currently in use…:)) and if you did, which of the following statements rings more true with you: a) George’s book set me back twenty years in my growth as a fly tyer… b) This was the best book of it’s day on the subject, and got me off to a good start… Or feel free to fall in the middle somewhere with your own statement… An informal survey..

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The  Herter’s catalog was the best reading material while siiting on the John  I have found. I still have some of his instruction manuals; i.e. How to stay  married to a bitch, The bull cookbook, The Herter’s guide manual and The  Herter’s Book of Fly and Lure Construction.. Also I have a friend who is still using a #7 vise and a Herter’s Bamboo Planing Jig. Too bad they went out of business. Luck. Jack

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The  Herter’s catalog was the best reading material while siiting on the John  I have found. I still have some of his instruction manuals; i.e. How to stay  married to a bitch, The bull cookbook, The Herter’s guide manual and The  Herter’s Book of Fly and Lure Construction.. Also I have a friend who is still using a #7 vise and a Herter’s Bamboo Planing Jig. Too bad they went out of business. Luck. Jack Not too many folks could disagree with your first statement Jack, but I can disagree with your second one!!  Just ordered a catalog last week from their 800 number!!!!  What was that? You sure wish that guy woulda’ posted the damn number…..okay, Jack….here it is!!!                         800-654-3825 Now keep in mind, your proctologist will tell you that it’s not good to spend too much time sitting on the commode reading, you should just take care of business and move on……well F**K HIM!!! If he’s got time to meddle in other peoples business, he’s not spendin’ enuff time fishin" !!!!! Larry #:)#

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