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Question:

Dave, Earlier this year I lost the ability to see close with my regular glasses on. I also know that my regular near sight (without glasses) is going down hill as well. So after a few 10-15 minute sessions on stream changing flies on 6x, I gave in and got the magnifiers which are a life-saver for me. I also bought a boom-arm magnifier light for tying and other close work at home. I was really hoping the progressives worked but for me, I felt like I was walking around with fish-eye lenses and was getting headaches. I just went tonight and turned them in (I was in a trial period) for regular distance lenses, and back I go to the clip on magnifiers on stream — Rob

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Rob; That’s too bad about the progressives. I love mine in the regular everyday lenses–but tying knots on stream–or even tying flies at home on the bench–is better accomplished with the naked eye. Sucks getting old–but the alternative is a *helluva* lot worse. Dave M

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dave, Earlier this year I lost the ability to see close with my regular glasses on. I also know that my regular near sight (without glasses) is going down hill as well. So after a few 10-15 minute sessions on stream changing flies on 6x, I gave in and got the magnifiers which are a life-saver for me. I also bought a boom-arm magnifier light for tying and other close work at home. I was really hoping the progressives worked but for me, I felt like I was walking around with fish-eye lenses and was getting headaches. I just went tonight and turned them in (I was in a trial period) for regular distance lenses, and back I go to the clip on magnifiers on stream — Rob

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I broke down and bot a few of those cute little needle threader type hook threaders that sit in my C&F boxes. They work ok and all but I’ve noticed that on smaller sizes the tippet forms a crease where it is hooked by the threader and pulled through. This makes my a bit nervous to include the creased section either in my knot or in my leader section. My concern is that by forming such a sharp bend in the tippet, I’m creating a weak spot and risking a break when load is applied. Anyway, the solution is just to snip off the bend. Aside from that, my little sise 22’s have become very popular with the smallmouth bass crowd. I’ve tended to fish the last two hours of the day recently and found that the darker bodied (BWO) parachutes have been hands down more productive than the lighter brown and tan bodies, even though the pattern is otherwise identical. They must put some cheese flavoring in that Super Fine olive dubbing. As an aside, check out http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/wildlife/fishing/fishid/default.htm I don’t live in Ohio, but I’ve found the line drawings and descriptions on this site of typical panfish and bass to be very interesting. I printed out all of the species that my son has caught and we colored them (to the best of our recollection) with water colors. Over and out. -bh Boulder, CO

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Rob; I have progressives for both my regular glasses and polarized progressives for my fishing glasses. You’d think they’d work fine–but noooo. Still much easier–for me anyway–to whip off the glasses and use the naked eye. I *do* have to be a bit careful in the dusk after taking off the fishing (dark) glasses–my "regular" ones don’t have the Croakies attached. Be a shame to drop them in the river. Dave M

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well…the "trick"; if you want to call it that; at least for me–because I’m so near-sighted–is to hang my glasses off a string /croakies off my neck; and tie on the fly using just my regular vision. That’s a trick I learned from watching my mother-in-law threading a needle. I’ve been told that it only works if you’re nearsighted–but if you are–it works like a charm. HTH. if you’re nearsighted and can’t see near anymore just happened to me earlier this year. I’m trying progressive lenses (instead of bifoculs) right now, but hate them. I’m probably going to resort to 2 pairs of glasses… regular distance correction and reading glasses. On stream I’ll just use my clip-on magnifiers. Rob

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Now I’m wondering how in the heck I’m going to tie these little gems on. Being half blind (and equally crazy) I have a tough time tying an 18 on 6x. What’s the trick to it? Anybody?

As an aside, don’t use your teeth to cut the tippet because this will flatten the end of it, making it wider than the diameter of the tippet. Use a sharp pair of nippers or scissors and cut the tippet at an angle. Mu

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Peter Charles writes… The eyes have hung in so far but after a day of staring at computer screens, they can need some help tying flies. Bought a cheap pair of 1.25 diopter half-glassses from the drug store – work great. Peter

Hell I’m up to 2.75 diopter and it still doesn’t work. I’ve got to use magnifiers. The clip-on ones work well and you can buy polaroids with magnifiers built right in How the hell did you tie the damn things without magnifiers? Joel Axelrad **DFD**

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but makes it much more pleasant. Wolfgang For who, you or the guy watching you? Darin

Share the wine and the spectators’ acuity will match your own……the possibilities for amusement are endless. :) Wolfgang

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Actually I found a really simple solution. I have lazy eye, like a squint except your eyes dont go in different direction. On a good day I can see fine with a small amount of strain, on a bad day I end up borrowing my mothers reading glasses to be able to see in front of my arm. It has almost gone though, my vision is perfect after taking up cross-stitch. Watch tv do cross stitch means I need to continually refocus and at the same time training my eyes to focus. I know this is not the case with a large number of you but try short-long exercise. It may make a difference. As for tying, my proficiency has gone from a 10-12 to 22+ with better focussing.

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Depends on the state of your teeth. *grin* – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now I’m wondering how in the heck I’m going to tie these little gems on. Being half blind (and equally crazy) I have a tough time tying an 18 on 6x. What’s the trick to it? Anybody? As an aside, don’t use your teeth to cut the tippet because this will flatten the end of it, making it wider than the diameter of the tippet. Use a sharp pair of nippers or scissors and cut the tippet at an angle. Mu

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I must have been born with grinders, ‘cuz I fully understand Mu’s advice. AFTER I cut the line cleanly with nippers, and AFTER I don my magnifiers, I have to move the fly around to get the best backgound for finding the hole. (sound like the start of a bad joke, eh.) Foreground, background, and contrast all play a role. David . – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As an aside, don’t use your teeth to cut the tippet because this will flatten the end of it, making it wider than the diameter of the tippet. Use a sharp pair of nippers or scissors and cut the tippet at an angle. Mu

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Well…the "trick"; if you want to call it that; at least for me–because I’m so near-sighted–is to hang my glasses off a string /croakies off my neck; and tie on the fly using just my regular vision. That’s a trick I learned from watching my mother-in-law threading a needle. I’ve been told that it only works if you’re nearsighted–but if you are–it works like a charm. HTH.

if you’re nearsighted and can’t see near anymore just happened to me earlier this year. I’m trying progressive lenses (instead of bifoculs) right now, but hate them. I’m probably going to resort to 2 pairs of glasses… regular distance correction and reading glasses. On stream I’ll just use my clip-on magnifiers. Rob

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I sat up last night and tied a couple dozen medium brown parachute duns in sizes 20 and 22. This morning I’m looking at them, not half bad BTW, and wondering how the hell I did that. I can barely see the ribbing on the bods and the hackle is as fine as that from a hummingbird’s scrotum. <huh? whaddid he say? Now I’m wondering how in the heck I’m going to tie these little gems on. Being half blind (and equally crazy) I have a tough time tying an 18 on 6x. What’s the trick to it? Anybody?

magnifier clip-ons onstream, or pre-tie them at home.

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Well…the "trick"; if you want to call it that; at least for me–because I’m so near-sighted–is to hang my glasses off a string /croakies off my neck; and tie on the fly using just my regular vision. That’s a trick I learned from watching my mother-in-law threading a needle. I’ve been told that it only works if you’re nearsighted–but if you are–it works like a charm. HTH. Hell, that’s how I tie the fly to the tippet!

Same here.

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Being half blind (and equally crazy) I have a tough time tying an 18 on 6x. What’s the trick to it? Anybody? One word: Magnifiers. Or a couple of glasses of wine……doesn’t really speed the process, but makes it much more pleasant. Wolfgang

…and it gives you TWO hook-eyes to aim for — NightStalker

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"Nightstalker" …and it gives you TWO hook-eyes to aim for — NightStalker

One more glass and you’ll see 3. This makes it much easier, you aim for the middle one. Clark

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I sat up last night and tied a couple dozen medium brown parachute duns in sizes 20 and 22. This morning I’m looking at them, not half bad BTW, and wondering how the hell I did that. I can barely see the ribbing on the bods and the hackle is as fine as that from a hummingbird’s scrotum. <huh? whaddid he say? Now I’m wondering how in the heck I’m going to tie these little gems on. Being half blind (and equally crazy) I have a tough time tying an 18 on 6x. What’s the trick to it? Anybody?

The eyes have hung in so far but after a day of staring at computer screens, they can need some help tying flies. Bought a cheap pair of 1.25 diopter half-glassses from the drug store – work great. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Make grandson feel needed! OR leave fly off, eliminates need to reel in fish,unhook etc. — John Popp in Sanford Fl.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I sat up last night and tied a couple dozen medium brown parachute duns in sizes 20 and 22. This morning I’m looking at them, not half bad BTW, and wondering how the hell I did that. I can barely see the ribbing on the bods and the hackle is as fine as that from a hummingbird’s scrotum. <huh? whaddid he say? Now I’m wondering how in the heck I’m going to tie these little gems on. Being half blind (and equally crazy) I have a tough time tying an 18 on 6x. What’s the trick to it? Anybody?

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but makes it much more pleasant. Wolfgang

For who, you or the guy watching you? Darin

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I sat up last night and tied a couple dozen medium brown parachute duns in sizes 20 and 22. This morning I’m looking at them, not half bad BTW, and wondering how the hell I did that. I can barely see the ribbing on the bods and the hackle is as fine as that from a hummingbird’s scrotum. <huh? whaddid he say? Now I’m wondering how in the heck I’m going to tie these little gems on. Being half blind (and equally crazy) I have a tough time tying an 18 on 6x. What’s the trick to it? Anybody?

I’m excessively nearsighted, so first I try lowering my glasses and using a bare eye look. Doesn’t help with 6X tippet. Then I haul out the cheap drugstore reading glasses. Helps. I can see how I’m missing it. Then I keep on jabbing what I think is the end of the tippet into where I think the eye of the hook is until I luck out. Takes about 10 minutes as a general rule. The thing I hate is when I finally get it through and go to pull it enough through to make a knot and something slips and it’s out again. But if I’m sitting in the sunshine and the water’s gurgling nearby, that’s almost okay. — rbc: vixen Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

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I sat up last night and tied a couple dozen medium brown parachute duns in sizes 20 and 22. This morning I’m looking at them, not half bad BTW, and wondering how the hell I did that. I can barely see the ribbing on the bods and the hackle is as fine as that from a hummingbird’s scrotum. <huh? whaddid he say? Now I’m wondering how in the heck I’m going to tie these little gems on. Being half blind (and equally crazy) I have a tough time tying an 18 on 6x. What’s the trick to it? Anybody?

Response:

Being half blind (and equally crazy) I have a tough time tying an 18 on 6x. What’s the trick to it? Anybody?

One word: Magnifiers. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

Well…the "trick"; if you want to call it that; at least for me–because I’m so near-sighted–is to hang my glasses off a string /croakies off my neck; and tie on the fly using just my regular vision. That’s a trick I learned from watching my mother-in-law threading a needle. I’ve been told that it only works if you’re nearsighted–but if you are–it works like a charm. HTH. Dave M

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I sat up last night and tied a couple dozen medium brown parachute duns in sizes 20 and 22. This morning I’m looking at them, not half bad BTW, and wondering how the hell I did that. I can barely see the ribbing on the bods and the hackle is as fine as that from a hummingbird’s scrotum. <huh? whaddid he say? Now I’m wondering how in the heck I’m going to tie these little gems on. Being half blind (and equally crazy) I have a tough time tying an 18 on 6x. What’s the trick to it? Anybody?

Response:

Being half blind (and equally crazy) I have a tough time tying an 18 on 6x. What’s the trick to it? Anybody? One word: Magnifiers.

Or a couple of glasses of wine……doesn’t really speed the process, but makes it much more pleasant. Wolfgang

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Have been using these and they work great, 4 different magnifications to choose from. http://www.mageyes.com/Hobby.htm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I sat up last night and tied a couple dozen medium brown parachute duns in sizes 20 and 22. This morning I’m looking at them, not half bad BTW, and wondering how the hell I did that. I can barely see the ribbing on the bods and the hackle is as fine as that from a hummingbird’s scrotum. <huh? whaddid he say? Now I’m wondering how in the heck I’m going to tie these little gems on. Being half blind (and equally crazy) I have a tough time tying an 18 on 6x. What’s the trick to it? Anybody?

Response:

Well…the "trick"; if you want to call it that; at least for me–because I’m so near-sighted–is to hang my glasses off a string /croakies off my neck; and tie on the fly using just my regular vision. That’s a trick I learned from watching my mother-in-law threading a needle. I’ve been told that it only works if you’re nearsighted–but if you are–it works like a charm. HTH.

Hell, that’s how I tie the fly to the tippet! — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

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Question:

i think the problem lies with bad leader material. leaders "age", and become absurdly brittle and weak, even in packaging. the damn stuff has probably been on the shelf at wallyworld for five or six years. go to a decent specialty shop and get new leader material. otherwise, i think it’s your knots. i have desperately tried to snap flies off on the back cast, and i just can’t do it. hell, maybe you just have a special talent…

Excuse me, may I help you? Oh, I see. Well, you turned left into "Leader Minutia" by mistake. Go back down the hallway you came up, make a left by the drinking fountain, head for the sign that says "Actually Fishing Outdoors", and then past the restrooms, and right into "Turning A Nice Phrase". Don’t mention it, have a nice day.

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Check your leader often, especially if you see a messy cast.

hmmm….this will be bad news for anyone fishing with me… you boys’ll be doin a whole lot of leader checks… jeff (purely messy)

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…from my experience, cloning ain’t required…damned things are everywhere already…and around water? well, you probably haven’t seen the movie and don’t know the reproductive methods of gremlins, but…let’s just say it doesn’t look good for fisherpeople… jeff (creator of "the gremlin defense" – royalties required, unauthorized use or duplication will be punishable by law, bycracky) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … gremlins…….caught a glimpse of one once…looked sorta like a tiny waldo-wolfgang thing….. Nasty little buggers from all I’ve heard. Wolfgang and the BAD news is we got the technology to clone!

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It might be that the back cast is low enough to actually hit the water or the ground, then there’s no need for special talents to break off the fly. Most of the guys that I’ve helped with their casting technique had one common problem, their back cast was way too low. But for this problem to appear again and again, I would also guess that the leader is the problem. /Roger

I agree with both points. I have occasionally broken the hook off the fly by letting it hit the rocks behind me. What really makes that a great trick is to continue fishing with the hookless fly. Makes it a bit more of a sporting challenge! Bob — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

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By the way, I live in McKinney about 30 miles or so north of Dallas. Thanks again, Nick Wright

Dale gave you an excellent tip re: the FWFF event in September, and what sounded suspiciously like an invite to Backwoods for the Roadkill Roundup. You could gain quite a bit by attending either, and moreso by attending both. If you’d like, drop me an email, and I’ll try to provide as much "local" info as I can. TC, R

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Check your leader often, especially if you see a messy cast. Remove the overhand knots before they tighten. Don’t delay cutting knots out of the leader and rebuilding it.

Great advice! I saved a lot of time and frustration once I started noticing my messy casts right away and dealing with it before it became an unmanageable mess. You can untangle things (usually) fairly easily if you stop casting right away. A guide told me the minute rule (ok, maybe 30 seconds)…if you can’t fix it in under (a minute), then cut and redo… you’ll save time, be happier and get your fly on the water… which is the only way you can catch fish. — Rob (of course, fixing messy casting is another problem alltogether…)

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Nick, Ssounds to me like the whole outfit has been sitting around for a long time…I don’t know why floating line would sink rapidly unless it was old…..Also, there are several sites you can visit to learn to tie different types of knots, buy books, post messages, buy equipment, etc. http://www.flyanglersonline.com/ they have a beginners’ section http://www.thejump.net/fishing/fishing.html fishin’ knots & other things And here are some links that may be helpful: http://flyfishing.miningco.com/ http://www.njflyfishing.com/ http://www.roundrocks.com/rocks/html/misc.html I’m sure all the others here can also help you a lot…keep at it, ask a lot of questions & PRACTICE!!! Graden

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… gremlins…….caught a glimpse of one once…looked sorta like a tiny waldo-wolfgang thing…..

Nasty little buggers from all I’ve heard. Wolfgang and the BAD news is we got the technology to clone!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could it be that you’re snapping the fly off on the backcast? If you put too much energy into it you can crack the line like a whip, and the fly goes hell knows where. Bob Just what I was thinking. Put a little mark with a marker on the knot and tippet just above the fly to determine if this is happening if you can’t easily tell. Does it appear, by looking at the tippet end, if the knot is untying, or is the end, once the fly is gone, a "clean" end? Where in N. Texas are you located? If you’re near the DFW area, there are a number of instructors (Main Street Outfitters, in FW, for one), and a couple of FFing clubs that might provide some help. IMO, instruction, particularly professional instruction, will provide dividends beyond the cost incurred (see a recent related thread on this very topic). If you are comfortable with doing so, reply with a general location – there are several regulars in the general Fort Worth-Dallas <G area. TC, R

Thanks for all the advice. Thinking back on it, this may very well be what I was doing. I had not thought about it before. But that would explain why the leader looked as though it had been cut rather than the knot simply coming undone. I’m going to get all new line for my rod. The "floating fly line" that came with it sinks very rapidly, and it did not come with backing. So I’ll buy some new lines and leaders (hopefully this will help a little) and I’ll continue practicing my casting. Another question semi-related. I’m going to buy the leaders that come tapered instead of tying my own, in this case how necessary is it to have a tippet? By the way, I live in McKinney about 30 miles or so north of Dallas. Thanks again, Nick Wright

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Another question semi-related. I’m going to buy the leaders that come tapered instead of tying my own, in this case how necessary is it to have a tippet?

Knotless tapered leaders are good, but you will definitely need to get some tippet. Every time you tie on a fly you’re going to lose some material and by tying on some tippet you can delay replacing the leader. I remember when I was starting out – I ended up changing leaders quite often until I solved my tailing loops (if you see lots of overhand knots all through your leader you are throwing a tailing loop) in which case adding tippet is not as big an issue<g. Check your leader often, especially if you see a messy cast. Remove the overhand knots before they tighten. Don’t delay cutting knots out of the leader and rebuilding it. What length and weight leader/tippet to use is an important question. For most of the fishing I do (panfish, small bass, small trout) I get by with a 7 foot 4x tapered leader with 4x and/or 5x tippet added on. I carry spools or 4x through 7x tippet for modifying the end of the leader as needed. –Stan

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As a newbie of one year My most difficult time learning was trying to forget I didn’t have a spinning rod with weights Easy does it grasshopper. Let the rod and line do the work — Fly Fisherman With a Furless Naked Cat named Dub.

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that come tapered instead of tying my own, in this case how necessary is it to have a tippet? By the way, I live in McKinney about 30 miles or so north of Dallas.

I live in Plano. You need to buy a spool of tippet material. When fishing for bluegill around here I simply buy a 7.5 foot tapered 3x leader and immediately tie on a couple of feet of 4x tippet material. The waters we fish have so much stuff growing in the water that you gather a bowl of salad on each knott on a regular basis. By the time you leave a couple of flies in trees and snap a couple of flies off on the casts and change flies a couple of times you will need to replace the tippet with another couple of feet of tippet. It is no problem as a roll of tippet material lasts for a couple of years anyway and it is a good idea to replace it every couple of years anyway. BTW the Roadkill Roundtable meets each Saturday morning to tie flies and tell lies at Backwoods in the southeast corner of Campbell and Coit in Richardson. Come join us for a bs session anytime you want.We are a kind of a splinter group of The Dallas Flyfisher Club and the guys that work at the shop are always available to answer any questions. Ron manages the shop and Marshal works there and they are very knowledgable. Big Dale

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nick – you’ve gotten plenty of good opinions, but you’ll soon discover the truth… gremlins. damn things been plaguing all aspects of my flyfishing. caught a glimpse of one once…looked sorta like a tiny waldo-wolfgang thing. they can tie knots in the tippet, snag flies in trees, pull rod tips into closing doors or ceiling fans, push you down into the water in front of your fishing companions just as you’re stepping into a stream…oh the horrors you’re in for now!! you’ll love every moment – well, most of em. (my opinion… big fly, light or bad tippet, too powerful snapping and too soon on the forward casting stroke.) jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, my name is Nick I live in North Texas. My wife recently bought me the little $20 kit from WalMart since I’ve been wanting to try flyfishing. I’ve just about got the knack of fly casting (at least short distances), by practicing in my yard with a small piece of cloth tied on. My question is this, I took it out to the water tonight to give it a "real world" go and I ran into a problem. The flies would not stay tied to the leader. I tried the improved clinch and also the double clinch and without fail after about 5-6 casts the fly would be gone. I know that I’m tying these knots correctly. So I’m wondering where the problem can be? The little piece of cloth I’ve used for practice never once came off. Is it possible that the leader that came with the kit is either just really bad or possibly really old? Will getting a new leader solve my problem? Or are clinch knots not the proper way to tie on? Thanks for any advice. Nick Wright

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Hello, my name is Nick I live in North Texas. My wife recently bought me the little $20 kit from WalMart since I’ve been wanting to try flyfishing. I’ve just about got the knack of fly casting (at least short distances), by practicing in my yard with a small piece of cloth tied on. My question is this, I took it out to the water tonight to give it a "real world" go and I ran into a problem. The flies would not stay tied to the leader. I tried the improved clinch and also the double clinch and without fail after about 5-6 casts the fly would be gone. I know that I’m tying these knots correctly. So I’m wondering where the problem can be? The little piece of cloth I’ve used for practice never once came off. Is it possible that the leader that came with the kit is either just really bad or possibly really old? Will getting a new leader solve my problem? Or are clinch knots not the proper way to tie on? Thanks for any advice. Nick Wright

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Could it be that you’re snapping the fly off on the backcast? If you put too much energy into it you can crack the line like a whip, and the fly goes hell knows where. Bob — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, my name is Nick I live in North Texas. My wife recently bought me the little $20 kit from WalMart since I’ve been wanting to try flyfishing. I’ve just about got the knack of fly casting (at least short distances), by practicing in my yard with a small piece of cloth tied on. My question is this, I took it out to the water tonight to give it a "real world" go and I ran into a problem. The flies would not stay tied to the leader. I tried the improved clinch and also the double clinch and without fail after about 5-6 casts the fly would be gone. I know that I’m tying these knots correctly. So I’m wondering where the problem can be? The little piece of cloth I’ve used for practice never once came off. Is it possible that the leader that came with the kit is either just really bad or possibly really old? Will getting a new leader solve my problem? Or are clinch knots not the proper way to tie on? Thanks for any advice. Nick Wright

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Could it be that you’re snapping the fly off on the backcast? If you put too much energy into it you can crack the line like a whip, and the fly goes hell knows where. Bob

Just what I was thinking. Put a little mark with a marker on the knot and tippet just above the fly to determine if this is happening if you can’t easily tell. Does it appear, by looking at the tippet end, if the knot is untying, or is the end, once the fly is gone, a "clean" end? Where in N. Texas are you located? If you’re near the DFW area, there are a number of instructors (Main Street Outfitters, in FW, for one), and a couple of FFing clubs that might provide some help. IMO, instruction, particularly professional instruction, will provide dividends beyond the cost incurred (see a recent related thread on this very topic). If you are comfortable with doing so, reply with a general location – there are several regulars in the general Fort Worth-Dallas <G area. TC, R

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, my name is Nick I live in North Texas. My wife recently bought me the little $20 kit from WalMart since I’ve been wanting to try flyfishing. I’ve just about got the knack of fly casting (at least short distances), by practicing in my yard with a small piece of cloth tied on. My question is this, I took it out to the water tonight to give it a "real world" go and I ran into a problem. The flies would not stay tied to the leader. I tried the improved clinch and also the double clinch and without fail after about 5-6 casts the fly would be gone. I know that I’m tying these knots correctly. So I’m wondering where the problem can be? The little piece of cloth I’ve used for practice never once came off. Is it possible that the leader that came with the kit is either just really bad or possibly really old? Will getting a new leader solve my problem? Or are clinch knots not the proper way to tie on? Thanks for any advice. Nick Wright

Most likely you are snapping them off. Untutored beginners frequently show a natural tendency to crack a fly line like a whip. The correction is a matter of timing. You are probably starting the forward cast too early and overpowering it, causing the fly to accelerate to supersonic speed in a small fraction of a second….more stress than the tippet can handle. It didn’t happen with the piece of cloth because it’s greater air resistance simply wouldn’t allow that kind of acceleration. Watch you back cast. Don’t start the forward motion until the line extends completely to the rear. If possible, get an experienced caster to coach you. If not, take lessons or rent videos and practice, practice, practice. Wolfgang

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"Wolfgang Siebeneich" Most likely you are snapping them off. Untutored beginners frequently show a natural tendency to crack a fly line like a whip. The correction is a matter of timing. You are probably starting the forward cast too early and overpowering it, causing the fly to accelerate to supersonic speed in a small fraction of a second….more stress than the tippet can handle. It didn’t happen with the piece of cloth because it’s greater air resistance simply wouldn’t allow that kind of acceleration. Watch you back cast. Don’t start the forward motion until the line extends completely to the rear. If possible, get an experienced caster to coach you. If not, take lessons or rent videos and practice, practice, practice.

I had virtually the same thing written out to send and then thought I’d check and see if it was already in the thread. What he said! Clark

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Could it be that you’re snapping the fly off on the backcast? If you put too much energy into it you can crack the line like a whip, and the fly goes hell knows where. Bob

Good advice. Is it possible that the leader that came with the kit is either just really bad or possibly really old? Will getting a new leader solve my problem? Or are clinch knots not the proper way to tie on? Thanks for any advice.

The leader could weak. If in doubt, you don’t have to buy a new leader. Buy a spool of 5x tippet and learn to tie about a 18" to 24" piece onto the leader with a double surgeon’s knot. You should be doing that anyway. Cut the leader back to a thicker diameter first. It wouldn’t hurt to replace the whole leader, though. Did you say you paid $20 for this outfit? A decent store-bought leader will cost a quarter of that, but you can tie up your own, after spending more than $20 on materials. Then you can look into buying fly-tying materials, and then you can build your own rods. Eventually, you might build a drift boat and even knit your own waders. The possibilities are endless.

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Hello, my name is Nick I live in North Texas. My wife recently bought me the little $20 kit from WalMart

i think the problem lies with bad leader material. leaders "age", and become absurdly brittle and weak, even in packaging. the damn stuff has probably been on the shelf at wallyworld for five or six years. go to a decent specialty shop and get new leader material. otherwise, i think it’s your knots. i have desperately tried to snap flies off on the back cast, and i just can’t do it. hell, maybe you just have a special talent… wayno

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I’ve seen a lot of people do it Wayne. But I agree, the leader is probably shot which exasperates the problem. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, my name is Nick I live in North Texas. My wife recently bought me the little $20 kit from WalMart i think the problem lies with bad leader material. leaders "age", and become absurdly brittle and weak, even in packaging. the damn stuff has probably been on the shelf at wallyworld for five or six years. go to a decent specialty shop and get new leader material. otherwise, i think it’s your knots. i have desperately tried to snap flies off on the back cast, and i just can’t do it. hell, maybe you just have a special talent… wayno

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It might be that the back cast is low enough to actually hit the water or the ground, then there’s no need for special talents to break off the fly. Most of the guys that I’ve helped with their casting technique had one common problem, their back cast was way too low. But for this problem to appear again and again, I would also guess that the leader is the problem. /Roger

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, my name is Nick I live in North Texas. My wife recently bought me the little $20 kit from WalMart i think the problem lies with bad leader material. leaders "age", and become absurdly brittle and weak, even in packaging. the damn stuff has probably been on the shelf at wallyworld for five or six years. go to a decent specialty shop and get new leader material. otherwise, i think it’s your knots. i have desperately tried to snap flies off on the back cast, and i just can’t do it. hell, maybe you just have a special talent… wayno

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I don’t know where you live in North Texas, but you might want to check out an event that the Fort Worth FlyFishers Club is involved with that will happen on Sept 21. It is called the Trinity FlyFest and it will include casting lessons. For more information go to WWW. FortWorth FlyFishers.com. The Dallas club does not have an event scheuled in the near future which includes fly casting lessons because our next event is our annual club auction on Sept.21. You might just t ask at the Dallas Orvis Store. There is usualy someone there that will give any customer some casting tips and demonstration in their parking lot. It is a lot easier to work these kind of problems in person rather than on the net. Contact me if I can be any help. Big Dale

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Question:

Absolutely Abe!!!!!!! — ~~~~ The RodMaker (a.k.a) The Shadow……hehehe!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – RodMaker wrote!! AJH, Nothing wrong with fiberglass rods. Used in the correct applications. I agree with you RodMaker!! I use my fiberglass rods to fish my crankbaits with and a few other lures too!!

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For cranks, go to a 7 ft. or 7 1/2 ft. stick not only will you gain some in casting distance; but you will like the "feel" more .A med/heavy is more that adequate for this purpose. — ~~~~ The RodMaker (a.k.a) The Shadow……hehehe!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rodmaker;I just bought a nice 6 1/2 ft fiberglass rod made by Abu Garcia, I thought I needed it for crankbaits but after using it a few times I set it aside with the other "had to have" stuff. I read too much about fishing.. Fiberglass has it’s place and had it’s time. It rests next to a Fenwick HMG 6 1/2 ft spinning rod that I "had to have"

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Oh-oh! a whole new can of worms! — ~~~~ The RodMaker (a.k.a) The Shadow……hehehe!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nothing wrong with a Shakespeare Wonder reel and a Mitchell 300 either. Lets hear it from the "I still use a Mitchell 300" guys.

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Huh The description of the repair is detailed with pictures. I have all the confidence that the repair would be adequate. I think the man is trying to repair a fibre glass rod of sentimental value. I f he repairs it himself and does an adequate job it will add to it’s sentimental value. It would for me. Al – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Al, stick to things that you are learned about! C. Boyd Phiffer’s advice is antiquated at best. If you have a real question, ask — ~~~~ The RodMaker (a.k.a) The Shadow……hehehe! There is a book entitled Tackle Care and Repair Handbook (Field & Stream) by C. Boyd Pfeiffer. It is a paperback book. Chapter 6 is on rod repair and there are a few pages about re installing (taping then wrapping) your missing guide. You may be able to get the book at the library. For others the book covers repair and maintenance of rod,reel,lures and accessories. Al

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The Epoxymoron somehow seems to fit, Mike!But what is a "respectable" Rodmaker? Anyone care to know my take? — ~~~~ The RodMaker (a.k.a) The Shadow……hehehe!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Respectable rodmaker"…..? There’s two words you don’t see next to each other too often. Hmmm, alliteration and an oxymoron rolled into one…or would that be an epoxymoron. LOL Just kidding RodMaker. — "Mad-Mikey" At first, fishing and hunting were just hobbies, then they became addictions taking all my time and money. If they ever find a cure for these sicknesses— I’m refusing treatment. Before you buy.

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HMG 6 1/2 ft spinning rod that I "had to have" And what would you want for that HMG?

– "Mad-Mikey" At first, fishing and hunting were just hobbies, then they became addictions taking all my time and money. If they ever find a cure for these sicknesses— I’m refusing treatment. Before you buy.

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Al, stick to things that you are learned about! C. Boyd Phiffer’s advice is antiquated at best. If you have a real question, ask — ~~~~ The RodMaker (a.k.a) The Shadow……hehehe!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is a book entitled Tackle Care and Repair Handbook (Field & Stream) by C. Boyd Pfeiffer. It is a paperback book. Chapter 6 is on rod repair and there are a few pages about re installing (taping then wrapping) your missing guide. You may be able to get the book at the library. For others the book covers repair and maintenance of rod,reel,lures and accessories. Al

Response:

There is a book entitled Tackle Care and Repair Handbook (Field & Stream) by C. Boyd Pfeiffer. It is a paperback book. Chapter 6 is on rod repair and there are a few pages about re installing (taping then wrapping) your missing guide. You may be able to get the book at the library. For others the book covers repair and maintenance of rod,reel,lures and accessories. Al

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RodMaker wrote!! AJH, Nothing wrong with fiberglass rods. Used in the correct applications. I agree with you RodMaker!! I use my fiberglass rods to fish my crankbaits with and a few other lures too!!

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Rodmaker;I just bought a nice 6 1/2 ft fiberglass rod made by Abu Garcia, I thought I needed it for crankbaits but after using it a few times I set it aside with the other "had to have" stuff. I read too much about fishing.. Fiberglass has it’s place and had it’s time. It rests next to a Fenwick HMG 6 1/2 ft spinning rod that I "had to have"

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Nothing wrong with a Shakespeare Wonder reel and a Mitchell 300 either. Lets hear it from the "I still use a Mitchell 300" guys.

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My dad had a ‘51 Kaiser. Was a nice car back then.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nothing wrong with a Shakespeare Wonder reel and a Mitchell 300 either. Lets hear it from the "I still use a Mitchell 300" guys.

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My dad had a ‘51 Kaiser. Was a nice car back then.

That’s a very questionable position, Bob. I know, I inherited one from my father-in-law. 3" diameter round push buttons in middle of door panels to open the doors. Doesn’t matter if the lock button is pushed or not. Door pops open when you push the big button. Talk about convenience! Great way to get rid of unwanted relatives. Since the windows were always open anyway (the side windows had a habit of shattering when you hit a decent bump), you just ask ol’ Uncle Dan (who is riding shotgun)to hit the button and roll the window up as you’re taking a hard left. RichZ

Question:

Hi John, Steffen Rods are built by the Steffen brothers, their company is located in Northern Arizona near Lee’s Ferry. They build extremely fine rods. You may have gotten that one for a steal, if it was cheap in a swap meet. These rods should easily compare to Scott, Sage, Loomis, etc. in quality. The only difference, naturally is the action of the rod. Steffen Bro’s do build their own blanks. These rods are not too well known, because the boys aren’t very dependable in shipping rods out to their retailers. Certain times of the year, fishing on Lee’s Ferry is more important than making an income. A lot of retailers will not stock their rods for this reason. Although, sometimes I have to agree with their attitude about fishing before working. It must depend on how much cash you have in the bank. Good Luck Bill — William Endicott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently acquired a rod at an estate sale. The seller didn’t know the history of it. It is graphite, marked Steffen Rod Co. The blanck is unsanded gray, reminiscent of a Scott Power Ply. Does anyone know anything about the Steffen Rod Co.? Are they still in business? Is this just a custom built Powerply or is it actualy a blank made for this company? Any help you can give me would be appreciated. BTW…it doesn’t cast half bad. John Woodling Sacramento, CA

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Does anyone know anything about the Steffen Rod Co.? Are they still in business? Is this just a custom built Powerply or is it actualy a blank made for this company? John Woodling Sacramento, CA

John; Steffen Rod Co. is based in Arizona, but I’m not sure of the town. Their rods are much more popular out there in the West than they are here in the East. However, they are gaining in popularity. They "roll their own" at Steffen. They are very competent rods. They are certainly still in business, but you don’t hear much about them. They forego national advertising to keep their overhead at a minimum. They also don’t offer an unlimited warrantee, but will repair rods at a reasonable price. Right now, they only offer 2 series of rods. One is like yours and the other is sanded and with fancier hardware, but it’s the same rod, essentially. We have a guy here in eastern PA who sells their stuff. Very good casting rods for $250. Compared to my Scott Alpha, they are significantly slower; not that it is a *bad* thing. Jason Beary

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I recently acquired a rod at an estate sale. The seller didn’t know the history of it. It is graphite, marked Steffen Rod Co. The blanck is unsanded gray, reminiscent of a Scott Power Ply. Does anyone know anything about the Steffen Rod Co.? Are they still in business? Is this just a custom built Powerply or is it actualy a blank made for this company? Any help you can give me would be appreciated. BTW…it doesn’t cast half bad. John Woodling Sacramento, CA

Dear John: Mark Steffen, of Steffen Brothers, lives in Flagstaff, Arizona. He sells his rods locally through Peace Surplus Sporting Stores, 779-4521. Mark is the current President of the our local fly fishing group…. Northern Arizona Flycasters, Inc. Besides making great rods, he is an all around good guy, hardcore fisherman and fly fishing activist. Give him a call if you have any questions. Dawson Henderson

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently acquired a rod at an estate sale. The seller didn’t know the history of it. It is graphite, marked Steffen Rod Co. The blanck is unsanded gray, reminiscent of a Scott Power Ply. Does anyone know anything about the Steffen Rod Co.? Are they still in business? Is this just a custom built Powerply or is it actualy a blank made for this company? Any help you can give me would be appreciated. BTW…it doesn’t cast half bad. John Woodling Sacramento, CA Dear John: Mark Steffen, of Steffen Brothers, lives in Flagstaff, Arizona. He sells his rods locally through Peace Surplus Sporting Stores, 779-4521. Mark is the current President of the our local fly fishing group…. Northern Arizona Flycasters, Inc. Besides making great rods, he is an all around good guy, hardcore fisherman and fly fishing activist. Give him a call if you have any questions. Dawson Henderson

I have fished Steffen steelhead (8wt) and 4-piece 6-wt rods for years. They are marvelous. I use the 4-piece in New Zealand just about every day for 4-6 week trips and find that it handles innumerable large fish, horrendous wind, and roll-casting very heavy nymphs on the Tongariro like no other rod.The Midge in Los Altos Calif carries the rods. If you have trouble with a Steffen, the maker repairs them very well. Try it, you’ll like it!!

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Hi ! Does anybody know, how to purchase one of these rods here in europe witout knowing a pal who travels the US frequently ?? TIA

Response:

I recently acquired a rod at an estate sale. The seller didn’t know the history of it. It is graphite, marked Steffen Rod Co. The blanck is unsanded gray, reminiscent of a Scott Power Ply. Does anyone know anything about the Steffen Rod Co.? Are they still in business? Is this just a custom built Powerply or is it actualy a blank made for this company? Any help you can give me would be appreciated. BTW…it doesn’t cast half bad. John Woodling Sacramento, CA

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Question:

Does anyone know any books published on the topic of flyfishing and/ or tying for the trout of New England? Bill W

Response:

Does anyone know any books published on the topic of flyfishing and/ or tying for the trout of New England?

Bill, Vermont Trout Streams by Farrow Allen is an excellent resource. It is published by Northern Cartographic in Burlington Vermont. Fly Tiers Heaven website is a local fly shop that stocks many regional books. Hope this helps. James Ehlers Underhill, Vermont Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service Vermont Fly Fishing, Hunting, River and Woodland Outings http://pobox.com/~uncle

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Does anyone know any books published on the topic of flyfishing and/ or tying for the trout of New England? Bill W

Hi, A really good book, but just for Vermont is : Fishing Vermont’s Streams and Lakes by Peter Cammann, published by Backcountry Press. I assume there are similar books for other N.E. states, but my sister lives in vermont, so there you go. Bill

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At least for Maine there are some books by a guy named Al Raychard, "Allagash" by Dean Bennett, and "Complete Guide to Fly Fishing Maine" by Bob Newman. Chris

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : : As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life : than hunters or meat eaters. : : This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being : killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced : there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… : it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity : of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals : (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian. : As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals : are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat. What makes you so sure that "most of those animals are fed on GRASS" ? What evidence do you have to support this? Now we await the long silence….. seetoh

In California one of our largest crops is rice and the biproduct of rice production consists of millions of mosquito fish and crawdads flushed out of the fields before harvest. Most of these die in the drainage ditches. Since most of the veggies eat rice just think how many animal lives they are responsible for. Harvesting other grains destroys bird nests and draining wetlands to grow these benign grains have destroyed the waterfowl flocks that use to blacken our skies with their flights (do you think that might have been another form of air polution ) I wish they would enjoy their veggies and leave more good wholesome meat for the rest of us dewayne

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Is "dying from lack of meat" the technical definition of "Bob’s" condition; i don’t have a strong medical background. -curious

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Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts! I would like to take this time to point out the double-standards by which vegetarians live by. [rest deleted]

Well… It *is* the truth, isn’t it ? TimW

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Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts!

Hmm, using my wonderous (almost if I could get it to work properly) new bit of software at home, I can browse the newsgroups whilst also being able to see the newsgroups list. The concept of people on ‘talk.politic.tibet’, ‘rec.animals.wildlife’, ‘rec.backcountry’ etc being ‘fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts’ just doesn’t really ring true. I think the best thing is to assume it is a troll and <snip — David Arno

Response:

As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life than hunters or meat eaters.

This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian. In addition, the animal you kill and eat has used that excess plant matter to create urine, fecal matter, methane, etc… which causes gross pollution in many parts of this country. I have exposed the double standards and hypocrisy by which vegetarians live, and I hope they stop the high and mighty banter, and the self righteous behaviour they impose on everyone else who chooses to eat meat. All I ask in return is an apology from AR’s (animal rights people) to hunters and meat eaters. It is as simple as that.——Muskie

If animals had a voice, they would demand an apology from YOU.

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Is "dying from lack of meat" the technical definition of "Bob’s" condition; i don’t have a strong medical background. -curious

Sounds kind of funny to me, maybe that doctor should face a review board, sounds like s/he doesn’t know what s/he is talking about. If it were protein deficiency, that’s one thing, but "dying from lack of meat"….sounds like a diagnosis a 3-year old hamburger lover would make. Cynthia S. Smith http://www.sn.no/~csmith http://www.ifi.uio.no/~cynthias

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= = As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life = than hunters or meat eaters. = = This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being = killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced = there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… = it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity = of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals = (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian. In addition, the = animal you kill and eat has used that excess plant matter to create = urine, fecal matter, methane, etc… which causes gross pollution in = many parts of this country. Hmmm…what if you raise the meat animals on permanent pasture (i.e. rarely if ever plowed)? —

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts! I would like to take this time to point out the double-standards by which vegetarians live by. I feel it is my duty to open the eyes of the hypocrites, once and for all. Alot of vegetarians eat that way because they dont believe in killing animals. Well, guess what? You vegetarians kill many animals by eating corn, beans, turnips and other such vegetables. When old macdonald is out in his field in planting or harvesting season, he is running over many mice, bird eggs, salamanders, and you name it with his plow and tractor. Ever seen how fast a baby rabbit is when it is two weeks old? Not very. It is also not very likely that a nest of young bunnys could survive a run in with a plow or tractor wheel. Grouse eggs, plus baby grouse dont stand a chance in the farmers WHEAT fields when its pickin’ time. Weasels, baby skunks, baby woodchucks, baby geese, baby oppusom, tucked in their little burrows into the soft dirt of the farmers field dont have a chance in planting or plowing season. Every time you take a bite of that corn, and think to yourself, " Im glad im a vegetarian, I dont kill animals like those stupid hunters do " , you contribute to at least a few senseless animal deaths. For every 200 acre farmers field, think of all the animals that are killed or mamed by the plow or harvester! ( the rest deleted)

200 acres? Not far from here they measure their fields by the section (640 acres)! And don’t forget all the animals that are no longer with us because of loss of habitat to the plow.

Response:

As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life than hunters or meat eaters. This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian.

As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat. Rangeland contains a wide variety of animal life, none of which are killed to make room for the growth of human foodstuff (in this case, cattle). So while it may take 10 times as much grass to make a pound of meat, feeding the grass to the cattle certainly does no harm to the surrounding animals. In addition, the animal you kill and eat has used that excess plant matter to create urine, fecal matter, methane, etc… which causes gross pollution in many parts of this country.

More so than was caused by the vast herds of bison and pronghorns in the past? Jessica and the zoo: Kosh (dog), Liza (horse), Nikki, Pixel, and Voodoo (Demon Cats from Hell), Flick (snake) and oh yeah, Keith (husband), who puts up with us all. "Frogs are generally considered a pretty non-violent species. Unless, of course, you’re a fly". -Kermit

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[brutally slaughtered text was here] As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat.

Except in brownies. And I think the original poster has that down just pat. 8^) TimW

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<Hundreds of lines of crap deleted Excellent! Muskie, meet Dr Jai. Dr Jai, meet Muskie. Why don’t the two of you bugger off to alt.fan.jai-maharaj and have a cosy chat? — I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did. I said I didn’t know. Mark Twain.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Doug Arendt) writes: = = As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life = than hunters or meat eaters. = = This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being = killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced = there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… = it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity = of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals = (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian. In addition, the = animal you kill and eat has used that excess plant matter to create = urine, fecal matter, methane, etc… which causes gross pollution in = many parts of this country. Hmmm…what if you raise the meat animals on permanent pasture (i.e. rarely if ever plowed)? And the previous poster is ignoring that all those ‘pollutants’, urine, fecal matter, etc. are actually the main ingredients in organic fertilizer. Guess they don’t eat organic produce, huh….. Besides, the WORST pollutant of our water ways is run-off from urban and suburban lawns. Sue — ======= Mike Mayer (414) 751-3557 Work: Technology Group, Inc. Neenah, WI Home:

In the west a real factor is the amount of water it takes to grow a pound of steak. Alfalfa and hay need LOTS of water. It is tremendously inefficient to grow our protein on the hoof.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts! I would like to take this time to point out the double-standards by which vegetarians live by. I feel it is my duty to open the eyes text deleted hare krishna, actually i agree with a lot of this post. IF YOU ARE NOT SELF-SUFFICIENT YOU ARE NOT A VEGETARIAN. that’s why i’m learning everything i can about self-sufficiency and sustainable, cruelty-free, organic agriculture. but i must say that the below text is a load of garbage. i’m a hare krishna devotee (please refrain from the cult jokes). i live on a krishna farm community and teach at our elementary school. all the children here have been strict vegetarians since birth. visitors are always commenting on how radiantly healthy they look. some of the older kids who go to public high school are star athletes of every sport. none have EVER eaten meat. bhaktin casey TO MEAT OR NOT TO MEAT? ( REVISED EDITION 8/10/96) In a recent study, a 35 year old male, strict vegetarian of 12 years, went for a checkup at his doctors office. Thinking he was perfectly fit, the man proceeded out the office right after the checkup. The doctor chased him down the hall, and grabbed him aside then he said, " Im sorry Bob, you have 2 months to live". Bob had NOT eaten meat since he was 23, and the results were that his heart was dying due to lack of meat. The doctor said he needed meat at least occasionaly, to live. Unfortunately, the problem could not be corrected, it was too late for Bob. he died on 8/21/96. This sad episode COULD have been prevented. In another related study, Woman who are pregnant that were vegetarians averaged babies with a much lower weight than meat-eating pregnant mothers. 50% of the babies of strict vegetarians were considered "weak" and "having birth weights of dangerously low levels". This is sad news, but true. You see people, we need meat to build our strong hearts, and strong muscles. These "weak" babies didnt get a chance to choose if they wanted to be vegetarians, their bodies were forced only veggies by the unsensitive mothers, who, in a way, were already forcing their beliefs on their un-born child. This doesnt need to be the case. Or how about when your child is 16 years old, and is 4 foot 9, with bad bones and bad vision? what do you do when that child asks you , "mommy, why did you take the life away from me? why didnt you feed me the necessary nutrients that meat provides when I was in your womb?" These sad cases are all too often. Meat builds champions, and warriors. We need meat to fight our wars, and to be victorious. We need the feeling of bringing home the meat to our family. A feeling that cant be taken for granted. Come on people, cows are no better than mosquitos. If your a vegetarian, and bugs hit your windshield, and it doesnt bother you, why does it bother you when an old cow gets a bolt through the head? What is the difference? The folks that started our very existence, ate meat and loved it. If it were not for their great meat-eating abilities, we all would not be here. So I ask you to rally your support for our GREAT fishermen and hunters. these caring and bright people continue fine traditions that are responsible for your being here. That great Sportsmen, the breath of fresh air in a smoggy world, is the master of his domain, a true "king" if you will, of his senses and surroundings. Fishing and Hunting are the bright positives in a negative world. And there is nothing like enjoying a big barbeque before a good hunt or fishing outing. Ribs, chicken wings, drumsticks, meatballs, fish fillets(trout are best served whole), steaks, eggs, chicken breasts, veil, lamb cutlet dripping with grease, juicy, flavourful bratwurst, and best of all, a nice side of ham with some spicey mustard. these sorts of foods provide oneself with power, nutrition, and the ability to prosper in adverse enviornments. So, I ask you again, support the great fishermen and hunters. Give them a pat on the back when you see one , and tell him/her, "thanks, thanks for all youve done. Thank you for allowing me the gift of true life. I am forever thankful." Lets not have anymore weak babies and sad stories like the one above. Start supporting meat and our great sportspersons. For these individuals know the essence of life. If you take the time to really know a sportsperson, you might change your life, for the better.——Muskie

—— Hmmmmmmmmm?—— Nice disertation but you’re boy Bob is the exception, not the rule. Americans have TOO MUCH MEAT in their diet and their Cholesterol Levels and Fat levels are beyond reason. FAT INTAKE should not exceed 5% of the total calories and Cholesterol should be as close to zero as possible. George Gehrke

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Who cares this is a fishing forum….let’s talk FISHING…. (pass the salt and pepper pleaz, while eatting prime rib!) Em*

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[snip] BACK UP HERE and consider this. "ALL life comes from the sun". You figure out for yourself the evidence that plant material sustains flesh. At least, I hope you do not lack ‘logic’. George Gehrke/Mr. Gink Now then, can we all start talking about fly fishing please?

I hate to be a nit picking buttinsky but using words like "all" and "always" in a statement usually gets you in trouble. This is no exception. There have relatively recently been discovered ecosystems that are completely independent of the sun’s energy. I’m referring to deep sea sulfur vents which exist in total darkness and sulfur reducing bacteria are the primary producers. Regarding cattle etc. being fed grass. If the doubter ( I’ve lost track of who’s who on this thread) would like to come to Kansas, I’ll show them the largest remaining tract of tallgrass prairie ( and some of the most beautiful scenery in the world ) with all kinds of cattle happily munching the grass and making steak. — Brent L. Brock Kansas State University Dept. Agronomy, Range Science

Response:

Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts! I would like to take this time to point out the double-standards by which vegetarians live by. I feel it is my duty to open the eyes

text deleted hare krishna, actually i agree with a lot of this post. IF YOU ARE NOT SELF-SUFFICIENT YOU ARE NOT A VEGETARIAN. that’s why i’m learning everything i can about self-sufficiency and sustainable, cruelty-free, organic agriculture. but i must say that the below text is a load of garbage. i’m a hare krishna devotee (please refrain from the cult jokes). i live on a krishna farm community and teach at our elementary school. all the children here have been strict vegetarians since birth. visitors are always commenting on how radiantly healthy they look. some of the older kids who go to public high school are star athletes of every sport. none have EVER eaten meat. bhaktin casey – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – TO MEAT OR NOT TO MEAT? ( REVISED EDITION 8/10/96) In a recent study, a 35 year old male, strict vegetarian of 12 years, went for a checkup at his doctors office. Thinking he was perfectly fit, the man proceeded out the office right after the checkup. The doctor chased him down the hall, and grabbed him aside then he said, " Im sorry Bob, you have 2 months to live". Bob had NOT eaten meat since he was 23, and the results were that his heart was dying due to lack of meat. The doctor said he needed meat at least occasionaly, to live. Unfortunately, the problem could not be corrected, it was too late for Bob. he died on 8/21/96. This sad episode COULD have been prevented. In another related study, Woman who are pregnant that were vegetarians averaged babies with a much lower weight than meat-eating pregnant mothers. 50% of the babies of strict vegetarians were considered "weak" and "having birth weights of dangerously low levels". This is sad news, but true. You see people, we need meat to build our strong hearts, and strong muscles. These "weak" babies didnt get a chance to choose if they wanted to be vegetarians, their bodies were forced only veggies by the unsensitive mothers, who, in a way, were already forcing their beliefs on their un-born child. This doesnt need to be the case. Or how about when your child is 16 years old, and is 4 foot 9, with bad bones and bad vision? what do you do when that child asks you , "mommy, why did you take the life away from me? why didnt you feed me the necessary nutrients that meat provides when I was in your womb?" These sad cases are all too often. Meat builds champions, and warriors. We need meat to fight our wars, and to be victorious. We need the feeling of bringing home the meat to our family. A feeling that cant be taken for granted. Come on people, cows are no better than mosquitos. If your a vegetarian, and bugs hit your windshield, and it doesnt bother you, why does it bother you when an old cow gets a bolt through the head? What is the difference? The folks that started our very existence, ate meat and loved it. If it were not for their great meat-eating abilities, we all would not be here. So I ask you to rally your support for our GREAT fishermen and hunters. these caring and bright people continue fine traditions that are responsible for your being here. That great Sportsmen, the breath of fresh air in a smoggy world, is the master of his domain, a true "king" if you will, of his senses and surroundings. Fishing and Hunting are the bright positives in a negative world. And there is nothing like enjoying a big barbeque before a good hunt or fishing outing. Ribs, chicken wings, drumsticks, meatballs, fish fillets(trout are best served whole), steaks, eggs, chicken breasts, veil, lamb cutlet dripping with grease, juicy, flavourful bratwurst, and best of all, a nice side of ham with some spicey mustard. these sorts of foods provide oneself with power, nutrition, and the ability to prosper in adverse enviornments. So, I ask you again, support the great fishermen and hunters. Give them a pat on the back when you see one , and tell him/her, "thanks, thanks for all youve done. Thank you for allowing me the gift of true life. I am forever thankful." Lets not have anymore weak babies and sad stories like the one above. Start supporting meat and our great sportspersons. For these individuals know the essence of life. If you take the time to really know a sportsperson, you might change your life, for the better.——Muskie

Response:

| Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts! [chomp] | TO MEAT OR NOT TO MEAT? ( REVISED EDITION 8/10/96) | [..] | to live". Bob had NOT eaten meat since he was 23, and the results | were that his heart was dying due to lack of meat. The doctor Riiiiight! Heard of Craig Shergold?

Response:

[...] : : As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals : : are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat. : What makes you so sure that "most of those animals are fed on : GRASS" ? What evidence do you have to support this? : Now we await the long silence….. Would that we had had to endure YOURS. Be that as it may, however, it’s clear that you have never been to a cattle-raising country in which you actually engaged in observation. The fact is that most beef cattle are raised by grazing and, in the U. S. anyway, only spend the last few weeks of life in a feedlot. It is my understanding that many other beef-producing countries dispense with the feedlot and bring the animals to market directly from the range (which is why their beef tends to be somewhat less tender and somewhat more strongly flavored than the rather bland stuff we’re used to in the U. S.). How much time does the average beef cow spend in the feedlots, Seetoh? [With any luck, we'll now endure a long silence...] — – Rich Young (E-mail will be posted publicly as I see fit. You have been warned.)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : : As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life : than hunters or meat eaters. : : This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being : killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced : there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… : it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity : of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals : (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian. : As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals : are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat. What makes you so sure that "most of those animals are fed on GRASS" ? What evidence do you have to support this? Now we await the long silence….. seetoh

BACK UP HERE and consider this. "ALL life comes from the sun". You figure out for yourself the evidence that plant material sustains flesh. At least, I hope you do not lack ‘logic’. George Gehrke/Mr. Gink Now then, can we all start talking about fly fishing please?

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: : As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life : than hunters or meat eaters. : : This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being : killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced : there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… : it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity : of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals : (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian. : As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals : are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat. What makes you so sure that "most of those animals are fed on GRASS" ? What evidence do you have to support this? Now we await the long silence….. seetoh

Response:

Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts! I would like to take this time to point out the double-standards by which vegetarians live by. I feel it is my duty to open the eyes of the hypocrites, once and for all. Alot of vegetarians eat that way because they dont believe in killing animals. Well, guess what? You vegetarians kill many animals by eating corn, beans, turnips and other such vegetables. When old macdonald is out in his field in planting or harvesting season, he is running over many mice, bird eggs, salamanders, and you name it with his plow and tractor. Ever seen how fast a baby rabbit is when it is two weeks old? Not very. It is also not very likely that a nest of young bunnys could survive a run in with a plow or tractor wheel. Grouse eggs, plus baby grouse dont stand a chance in the farmers WHEAT fields when its pickin’ time. Weasels, baby skunks, baby woodchucks, baby geese, baby oppusom, tucked in their little burrows into the soft dirt of the farmers field dont have a chance in planting or plowing season. Every time you take a bite of that corn, and think to yourself, " Im glad im a vegetarian, I dont kill animals like those stupid hunters do " , you contribute to at least a few senseless animal deaths. For every 200 acre farmers field, think of all the animals that are killed or mamed by the plow or harvester! Animals dont know any better to nest and live somewhere else. They see a nice field to nest up in, not knowing the horrors that lie ahead. Think of all the shrews, all the insects, and all the animal life that is destroyed when old macdonald plants and harvests. It is overwelming. Now, I have seen many farms and met many farmers, and I havent seen ONE farmer without a shotgun, or a gun that he hunts birds and animals with. I have seen many farms that use barb wire fences to keep out deer so they dont eat the vegetable products growing on the farm. If you look at some of those fences, you can see deer hair and skin stuck to the barbs, and sometimes deer will get stuck in those fences and ultimatley die a slow and horrible death, all twisted and mangled with broken necks. And, most farmers have 22’s they use to pot-shoot groundchucks and groundhogs, to keep them from eating the vegetable products they are growing. Not a pretty picture I am painting here is it veggies? rabbits are always a nusiance on farms, and hence, many farmers utilize cats and dogs to comb the fields, hoping these pets will keep the rabbit population down. A farmers field yeilding vegetable products is not a animal friendly place as you can see! But wait, theres more! Many farmers growing vegetable product also use pesticides. These pesticides either annoy or kill tens of thousands of different insect animal life. Not only do the pesticides used kill insect life, when the rains come down, these pestecides wash off into farm creeks, ponds, and lakes. Ever seen a river next to some large corn or lettuce farms? The fish life is pathetic at best. catfish with tumors, and where bass used to live, suckers take over because the runoff has killed the oxygen levels, making it almost impossible for fish to survive. So, even eating corn kills fish! Pesticide runoff is a common problem where farmers grow vegetable product. It causes the death of thousands of fish, and virtually destroys these freshwater ecosystems, killing turtles, ducks, kingfishers, herons, cranes, mink, otter, racoon, muskrat and so on. I think your getting the picture. How does that guilt-free salad taste now? and think of the cows, deer, fox, coyote,and other large game that drink form these pesticide creeks and lakes! All so you can have your guilt-free vegetarian life style! How about them veggies! As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life than hunters or meat eaters. I have exposed the double standards and hypocrisy by which vegetarians live, and I hope they stop the high and mighty banter, and the self righteous behaviour they impose on everyone else who chooses to eat meat. All I ask in return is an apology from AR’s (animal rights people) to hunters and meat eaters. It is as simple as that.——Muskie TO MEAT OR NOT TO MEAT? ( REVISED EDITION 8/10/96) In a recent study, a 35 year old male, strict vegetarian of 12 years, went for a checkup at his doctors office. Thinking he was perfectly fit, the man proceeded out the office right after the checkup. The doctor chased him down the hall, and grabbed him aside then he said, " Im sorry Bob, you have 2 months to live". Bob had NOT eaten meat since he was 23, and the results were that his heart was dying due to lack of meat. The doctor said he needed meat at least occasionaly, to live. Unfortunately, the problem could not be corrected, it was too late for Bob. he died on 8/21/96. This sad episode COULD have been prevented. In another related study, Woman who are pregnant that were vegetarians averaged babies with a much lower weight than meat-eating pregnant mothers. 50% of the babies of strict vegetarians were considered "weak" and "having birth weights of dangerously low levels". This is sad news, but true. You see people, we need meat to build our strong hearts, and strong muscles. These "weak" babies didnt get a chance to choose if they wanted to be vegetarians, their bodies were forced only veggies by the unsensitive mothers, who, in a way, were already forcing their beliefs on their un-born child. This doesnt need to be the case. Or how about when your child is 16 years old, and is 4 foot 9, with bad bones and bad vision? what do you do when that child asks you , "mommy, why did you take the life away from me? why didnt you feed me the necessary nutrients that meat provides when I was in your womb?" These sad cases are all too often. Meat builds champions, and warriors. We need meat to fight our wars, and to be victorious. We need the feeling of bringing home the meat to our family. A feeling that cant be taken for granted. Come on people, cows are no better than mosquitos. If your a vegetarian, and bugs hit your windshield, and it doesnt bother you, why does it bother you when an old cow gets a bolt through the head? What is the difference? The folks that started our very existence, ate meat and loved it. If it were not for their great meat-eating abilities, we all would not be here. So I ask you to rally your support for our GREAT fishermen and hunters. these caring and bright people continue fine traditions that are responsible for your being here. That great Sportsmen, the breath of fresh air in a smoggy world, is the master of his domain, a true "king" if you will, of his senses and surroundings. Fishing and Hunting are the bright positives in a negative world. And there is nothing like enjoying a big barbeque before a good hunt or fishing outing. Ribs, chicken wings, drumsticks, meatballs, fish fillets(trout are best served whole), steaks, eggs, chicken breasts, veil, lamb cutlet dripping with grease, juicy, flavourful bratwurst, and best of all, a nice side of ham with some spicey mustard. these sorts of foods provide oneself with power, nutrition, and the ability to prosper in adverse enviornments. So, I ask you again, support the great fishermen and hunters. Give them a pat on the back when you see one , and tell him/her, "thanks, thanks for all youve done. Thank you for allowing me the gift of true life. I am forever thankful." Lets not have anymore weak babies and sad stories like the one above. Start supporting meat and our great sportspersons. For these individuals know the essence of life. If you take the time to really know a sportsperson, you might change your life, for the better.——Muskie

Response:

: As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals : are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat. Rangeland contains a wide : variety of animal life, none of which are killed to make room for : the growth of human foodstuff (in this case, cattle). So while it : may take 10 times as much grass to make a pound of meat, feeding : the grass to the cattle certainly does no harm to the surrounding : animals. You are of course referring to buffaloes and wolves when you talk about animals not being killed to make room for cattle. Then, there are the slash and burn tactics of Brazilian ranchers. No animals being killed there, eh. And let us not forget polluted water sources because of animal waste. Since we are discussing animals, I won’t even go into how many people die early because of the garbage that is passed off on them as meat. -Tom

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Don’t forget all the pollution created when shipping those yummy veggies cross country. todd — "I envy not him that eats better meat than I do, nor him that is richer or wears better clothes than I do. I envy nobody but him, and him only, that catches more fish than I do." Izaak Walton

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200 acres? Not far from here they measure their fields by the section (640 acres)! And don’t forget all the animals that are no longer with us because of loss of habitat to the plow.

Not to mention all the corn and wheat that died so that we could live. Don’t discount them; they’re a sight more alive than rocks and minerals, after all. Just think; if redwood trees were a culinary treat, them environmentalists and vegetarians would have a whole new battle to fight. Not that I distance myself from those particular causes; I’m simply posing as the polemic. Cheers, Jen

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Question:

The water is still fairly high in the park, but with some work you should do well. I would take caddis (several sizes 12-18, and colors) – mosquitos , adams, also grey and brown hackle peacocks. For nymphs, almost anything (pt, prince, beadhead hare’ ears, etc. will do nicely. Fish the road water between the campgrounds and road’s end and walk up (2 mi. ) to bubb’s creek and fish both it and the south fork in that area. cal Buz’s Flyshop in Visalia and talk to Mickey or Larry for latest reliable info - 209-734-1151 — good fishing. Hank Urbach and hunting partners Rainbow’s Eagle River Buck SH Rainbow Mac’s Starry Sky JH Hill’s Ferry Hunting Retriever Club, CA

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I’m going to be camping in Kings Canyon National Park in mid-august near the South Fork of the Kings River and wonder if anyone has any fly pattern recommendations for this river or any of the creeks nearby or if their is a fly shop in the Fresno area you could direct me to. Thanks for your help in advance, Bob

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I’m going to be camping in Kings Canyon National Park in mid-august near the South Fork of the Kings River and wonder if anyone has any fly pattern recommendations for this river or any of the creeks nearby or if their is a fly shop in the Fresno area you could direct me to.

Bob… I fished the So. Fk. of the Kings Thurs. & Fri. and it was fishing great. In another 2 weeks the flows will come down a little and it should be even better. The best flies are a grey Deer Hair Caddis in #10 or 12 and a Western Coachman, a local fly that is basically a short bodied peacock Trude, #12 or 14. Around sundown a Blue Dun Parachute size 14 or 16 is also effective. Occasionally just before dark in the flat runs there can be a hatch of #16-18 light Cahill or PMD although a #16 Blue Dun Parachute seems to work just fine in that situation. There is a ff section in Herb Bauer Sporting Goods in Fresno where you can get good advice if you don’t talk to anyone under retirement age, but they don’t carry the flies you really need. The best shop is Buz’s Fly Shop in Visalia. Larry Goates who works there has fished the Kings all his life and guides there almost every week. Have a great trip. …Dick

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Hiya Bob, I the Kings was one of my favorite rivers when I was living in Fresno. What you *need* to carry in your box are as follows: Blue Dun #12-16 (I prefer parachute) light cahill #14-16 various ants, both red and black, #14-18 tan/olive caddis #14-16 GRHE #12-16 PT nymph #14-18 The above flies should keep you catching fish anywhere on the river. BTW, I’ve never seen a "full blown" blue dun hatch on the kings, but for some reason these flies are irresistable to the fish. I’m not sure about the water flow right now, but august/sept usually has fairly low water- sneak up on the pools! There are a some fly shops in Fresno, either Heubner’s sports or Bauer’s (on Blackstone)- I think those were the names…… Bauer’s is bigger, with a larger selection, but IMHO Huebner’s has better flies. Best- Hans — "The worst monotonous drone coming from a lectern or the most eye-splitting textbook written in turgid English is nothing in comparison to the psychological Sahara that starts right in your bedroom and spurns the horizon." -Joseph Brodsky, from "In praise of Boredom" delivered as a commencement address at Dartmouth College. Hans T.H. Beernink, Department of Biochemistry, University of Vermont

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Question:

writes: If Dave Whitlock isn’t the alltime Master of flyfishing then I don’t

know who is. For all around knowledge and no frills fishing ideas I prefer Lefty Kreh.

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For all around knowledge and no frills fishing ideas I prefer Lefty Kreh.

all around knowledge ? Red Green gets my vote. Tim Walker

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How could you forget Lee Wulff, my favorite?

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writes: If Dave Whitlock isn’t the alltime Master of flyfishing then I don’t know who is. For all around knowledge and no frills fishing ideas I prefer Lefty Kreh.

Lefty Kreh is one of the masters, but please, for "no frills" saltwater flies and fishing, my man is Lou Tabory! —- "Just say no to bait"

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I just finished reviewing Jack Samson’s new biography of Lee Wullf. Super book. The review should be posted in the magazine early next week. — ** Louis Bignami, Publisher http://www.finefishing.com Fine Fishing Internet Magazine "largest fishing mag on the Net" **

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Check out the Fly & Field Website! They have Dave Whitlock! He is writing articles and fly recipes, and answering questions! I am PSYCHED!! If DW isn’t the alltime Master of flyfishing then I don’t know who is. I’ve been collecting his books and drawings for several years and I even got to meet him once at a fishing show in San Francisco. He is the nicest person and his knowledge is so vast on so many topics of flyfishing it’s incredible. I’m sorry if I sound like a blithering idiot, but this is too much. The site is at http://www.flyfield.com/ but you can go straight to Dave at http://www.flyfield.com/dw2.htm. They are also highlighting Davy Wotton. Does anybody know about him? Apparently he is like the Dave Whitlock of Europe.

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Question:

Its about time the flyfishing newsgroup made it big. Prodigy to my suprise has a new nationally televised commercial featuring flyfishing chat on the Internet. I hope we get many more folks online. If your on the net and a Flyfishing person Crystal Flats Guide Service Captain Cliff Fleming South Padre Island Texas

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: Its about time the flyfishing newsgroup made it big. Prodigy to my : suprise has a new nationally televised commercial featuring flyfishing : chat on the Internet. I hope we get many more folks online. If your on the : net and a Flyfishing person I was under the impression that the advertisement was for a Prodigy group of ffing, probably called a forum. There is a difference between online providers and the Internet and Usenet newsgroups and Online provider newsgroups. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher – http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry | That’s Idaho, not Iowa. | These University of Idaho | Upper Left Hand Corner. | opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343 | No, I don’t grow potatoes. | are mine.

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Question:

You’re a wealth of information. Thanks! And glad to see you’re in higher ed too. No wonder you’re so willing to share info. Got any suggestions on the best dry fly patterns to use?? Roger Gary L. Bertrand

: Thanks for your help Gary. I really appreciate it. But a : question…terms I’ve not heard "put&take" and "NoCreel." Do both of : those mean catch a release? That’s just fine with me, I’d never keep : a fish unless it accidently was killed in the process of catching it : anyway. : : Are the parks closed during the week all winter? When do they open : and about what time of year does the good dry fly fishing start? : : Roger. : : I say "put & take" in the sense that during the regular season at the trout : parks, they PUT them (rainbows, usually 11-14") in each evening (about 2.3 : trout per expected tag) and we TAKE them out the next day (limit 5) on a $2 : daily tag. Whistle blows at 6:30, everybody casts, 1/3 catch a fish, 2/3 : catch somebody else. You can C&R if you like (20+ days are not uncommon), : but I don’t recommend it in crowded areas when the bubbas aren’t catching : much. There are different conditions at the 4 parks (I am not familiar : with Roaring River Park) during the regular season – March 1 to October 30. : Meramek Springs (St.James) Park allows anything, and I don’t recommend it : unless you enjoy casting around some guy chunking cheese on a treble hook : with a Rhino rod. Bennett Springs (N of Lebanon) has 3 zones – flies only, : something like flies only but you aren’t restricted to a single-point hook : (lots of rooster tails), and bait. Montauk Springs (SW of Salem, SE of : Licking) has flies only, anything goes, and a c&r area. Winter season in : all 4 parks is from mid-November to mid February, weekends only, c&r (only : they call it NoCreel), flies only. They stock them only once pretty : heavily at the start of winter season, so the catching is great in Nov and : drops off during the winter. : The rivers below Meramec Springs (Meramec R) and Montauk (Current R) are : trophy trout areas (limit 3,15" minimum) and are open all year anytime. : You can fish them on a state or out-of-state license, put can’t keep trout : without a trout stamp. The catching is not as good as it is in the parks, : but the fishing is much better. The river below Bennett Springs (Niangua : R) is also open all year with no restrictions, but I haven’t fished it very : much. I find the Bennett Springs area too crowded, even during winter : season, but they have some of the best shops in the state, so I make a : couple of trips (it’s about an hour-and-a-half from here) a year for : fly-tying supplies. : The good dry fly fishing starts around daybreak on any day you’re lucky : enough to be out in the river without freezing your butt off (and maybe : even a few mornings with frost on your pumpkin), but I think the fishing is : best on weekdays in April. There’s too many people on weekends, and by May : there’s too many people all week. : Gary : — : Gary L. Bertrand Dept. of Chemistry : University of Missouri-Rolla

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One good place to start might be Bennett Spring State Park. It’s a put-n- take fishery but at least is relatively easy to get to from KC and can provide a fairly decent "fix". Ask any store that sells flies how to get there.

Response:

I’ll give it a try….an, I’m glad you know about the need for a fishing "fix." I’d take a 6" rainbow right now just to see a fish — it’s been too long since my waiders have been wet. : One good place to start might be Bennett Spring State Park. It’s a put-n- : take fishery but at least is relatively easy to get to from KC and can : provide a fairly decent "fix". Ask any store that sells flies how to get : there.

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I’ll give it a try….an, I’m glad you know about the need for a fishing "fix." I’d take a 6" rainbow right now just to see a fish — it’s been too long since my waiders have been wet.

Don’t go running down there right now, expecting to put&take. All of the Missouri trout parks are now in Winter Season for NoCreel (C&R) fishing only, and only open Fri, Sat, Sunday. A $5 permit lets you fish all the parks (4) all winter. — Gary L. Bertrand

Response:

Thanks for your help Gary. I really appreciate it. But a question…terms I’ve not heard "put&take" and "NoCreel." Do both of those mean catch a release? That’s just fine with me, I’d never keep a fish unless it accidently was killed in the process of catching it anyway. Are the parks closed during the week all winter? When do they open and about what time of year does the good dry fly fishing start? Roger. Gary L.

: I’ll give it a try….an, I’m glad you know about the need for a fishing : "fix." I’d take a 6" rainbow right now just to see a fish — it’s been : too long since my waiders have been wet. : : Don’t go running down there right now, expecting to put&take. All of the : Missouri trout parks are now in Winter Season for NoCreel (C&R) fishing : only, and only open Fri, Sat, Sunday. A $5 permit lets you fish all the : parks (4) all winter. : — : Gary L. Bertrand

Response:

Thanks for your help Gary. I really appreciate it. But a question…terms I’ve not heard "put&take" and "NoCreel." Do both of those mean catch a release? That’s just fine with me, I’d never keep a fish unless it accidently was killed in the process of catching it anyway. Are the parks closed during the week all winter? When do they open and about what time of year does the good dry fly fishing start? Roger.

I say "put & take" in the sense that during the regular season at the trout parks, they PUT them (rainbows, usually 11-14") in each evening (about 2.3 trout per expected tag) and we TAKE them out the next day (limit 5) on a $2 daily tag. Whistle blows at 6:30, everybody casts, 1/3 catch a fish, 2/3 catch somebody else. You can C&R if you like (20+ days are not uncommon), but I don’t recommend it in crowded areas when the bubbas aren’t catching much. There are different conditions at the 4 parks (I am not familiar with Roaring River Park) during the regular season – March 1 to October 30. Meramek Springs (St.James) Park allows anything, and I don’t recommend it unless you enjoy casting around some guy chunking cheese on a treble hook with a Rhino rod. Bennett Springs (N of Lebanon) has 3 zones – flies only, something like flies only but you aren’t restricted to a single-point hook (lots of rooster tails), and bait. Montauk Springs (SW of Salem, SE of Licking) has flies only, anything goes, and a c&r area. Winter season in all 4 parks is from mid-November to mid February, weekends only, c&r (only they call it NoCreel), flies only. They stock them only once pretty heavily at the start of winter season, so the catching is great in Nov and drops off during the winter. The rivers below Meramec Springs (Meramec R) and Montauk (Current R) are trophy trout areas (limit 3,15" minimum) and are open all year anytime. You can fish them on a state or out-of-state license, put can’t keep trout without a trout stamp. The catching is not as good as it is in the parks, but the fishing is much better. The river below Bennett Springs (Niangua R) is also open all year with no restrictions, but I haven’t fished it very much. I find the Bennett Springs area too crowded, even during winter season, but they have some of the best shops in the state, so I make a couple of trips (it’s about an hour-and-a-half from here) a year for fly-tying supplies. The good dry fly fishing starts around daybreak on any day you’re lucky enough to be out in the river without freezing your butt off (and maybe even a few mornings with frost on your pumpkin), but I think the fishing is best on weekdays in April. There’s too many people on weekends, and by May there’s too many people all week. Gary — Gary L. Bertrand Dept. of Chemistry University of Missouri-Rolla

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I’m looking for some good fly fishing places in Missouri. I’m expecially interested in streams that are within easy driving distance to Kansas City. I normally fish Wyoming, Idaho, and Montana, so this will be a new exprerience, so I’d appreciate any suggestions. Thanks!

You will have to decide what is easy driving distance, but I’ll give you some ideas.If you are talking about in the normal in season time, Do the Merremac River and the Current river. As far as the Merremac goes, there is a bunch of big water fishing from around St. James on downstream. (Jon boat is good to float with then get out and wade.) The Current river offers some great classic trout stream fishing from Montauk springs on downstream. (Montauk is good for the kids and some practice in the flys only sections. Also a decent place to stay.) concentrate your serious fishing however on the current river downstream from the springs. Locals can give you guidance. Canoe is good for transportation. There are a few liveries around Montauk and you can park your car at the pickup and float down to it and leave the canoe. Don’t be put off by the Corn fisherman in the parks. They are gettin’ dinner and having a good time with the family. The Classic fishing, as I said is in the streams out of the parks. If you want some REAL western type fishing, go to Mountain Home Arkansas and fish the White and Norfolk rivers. Definitely hire a guide at Blue Ribbon Flies in Mountain Home. It will make your trip worthwile and safe. Best fishing is this time of year for the big ‘uns. Great fishing year around though. By the way, some of the land on the Current River (which is part of the Ozark Sceninc Riverway) was homesteaded by my ancestors, and I still have a bunch of relatives we go see from time to time. If you want specifics on locations and suggestions rather than these generalizations, Email me and I’ll respond. Kevin Williams-Indianapolis, IN

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I’m looking for some good fly fishing places in Missouri. I’m expecially interested in streams that are within easy driving distance to Kansas City. I normally fish Wyoming, Idaho, and Montana, so this will be a new exprerience, so I’d appreciate any suggestions. Thanks!

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