Question:

Having just(moved here and) gotten into flyfishing, I was wondering if I could only buy 10 flies—which ones (size,color?)would YOU have to have to in your vest? Thanks, Amelia

Response:

Having just(moved here and) gotten into flyfishing, I was wondering if I could only buy 10 flies—which ones (size,color?)would YOU have to have to in your vest? Thanks, Amelia

I hardly ever use anything other than a parachute Adams, a Royal Wulff or a Yellow Humpy in sizes 14, 16 and 18. I’m a dry fly purist so I’ll defer to Wayno to give you the benefit of his experience with the nymphs of the Blue Ridge. — Ken Fortenberry- pun most definitely intended

Response:

Having just(moved here and) gotten into flyfishing, I was wondering if I could only buy 10 flies—which ones (size,color?)would YOU have to have to in your vest? Thanks, Amelia

I would buy 9  size 10 foam yellow humpies  and one size 24  gray midge.  As a beginner you will probably loose the humpies in the trees but at least you will be able to  see them when you hit the stream. I would get the midge to amaze my friends when they ask about flies and also to amaze yourself by realizing   that  advanced fishing is difficult. Guess I am at level two in fly fishing and hope this is the year I begin to catch a few fish. Indian Joe

Response:

Having just(moved here and) gotten into flyfishing, I was wondering if I could only buy 10 flies—which ones (size,color?)would YOU have to have to in your vest? Thanks, Amelia

    mr. fortenberry, in his characteristically humble and helpful fashion, has pointed you in the right direction with regard to dry flies, although i must say that after mid may, my preference for top water flies would be kaufmann’s "stimulators" in sizes 10 (hopper imitation), 14 and 16 (caddis/stonefly) and in yellow, lime, and royal colors.     i have never used a nymph in my life, so i can’t help you with such things. wayno (ok, ok, here’s the deal on the nymphs:  prince; red squirrel; size 10, 14.) and, for down home personal service, and even more expertise, contact walt winter at ezflyfish.com.  he is a fellow roffian, guide, and blower of smoke.

Response:

I’ve noticed that yellow seems to be favored in dry flies by fishermen in the Blue Ridge.  Yellow Humpies, yellow/orange stimulators, Harry Murray’s Mr. Rapidan (yellow wings and yellow mixed into the dubbing), Walt’s Yallahammer, etc.

        well, that’s certainly true for early may through early october.  but i have *always* done better from march through early may on adams or royal wulff patterns.  ernie shweibert (one of my dearest friend, have i ever told you the absolutely intriguing story of how we first met?) would call it a sulphur thang, i reckon. wayno

Response:

 ernie shweibert (one of my dearest friend, have i ever told you the absolutely intriguing story of how we first met?)

No, but if you don’t tell me every detail next time we meet, I’ll be angry.

Response:

Point 1: you have my sympathy. This hobby will soon turn into an obsession Point 2: You’ve received some great advice from some real experts. They know what they are talking about, hard as that may be to believe! (this is as of 7:30 p.m. CT on Monday; I dunno what else you might hear! Be careful.) Point 3: My advice (worth exactly what it costs): go to the local walmart store and buy some of their cheap flies; take them with your gear to the nearest stocked water, and practice, practice, practice. Then as you improve your presentation skills and develop the desire for more of a challenge, get some of the flies that’ve been previously recommended and search out some more challenging water. Ezflyfish.com seems to me like a great source. Point 4: find some great folks to fish with who will help get you out on those cold rainy days when, without encouragement, you’d end up couch-potatoing in front of the TV. Bob Patton

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Having just(moved here and) gotten into flyfishing, I was wondering if I could only buy 10 flies—which ones (size,color?)would YOU have to have to in your vest? Thanks, Amelia

Response:

[snip] and, for down home personal service, and even more expertise, contact walt winter at ezflyfish.com.  he is a fellow roffian, guide, and blower of smoke.

Just don’t accept any yellow humpies from him.  <BSEG they tend not to have points – ask Mr. Fortenberry I’ve only been able to fish NC once but did OK on Royal Wulffs, Royal Coachman, and Irrestistibles.  Of course, I also caught some on streamers. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Having just(moved here and) gotten into flyfishing, I was wondering if I could only buy 10 flies—which ones (size,color?)would YOU have to have to in your vest? Thanks, Amelia

Amelia, The aforementioned flies by the most distinguished roffians are excellent suggestions…. I’ll humbly add my .02 worth…. Adams Parachute size 12 Adams Parachute size 14 Adams Parachute size 16 Adams Parachute size 18 Yellow Humpy size 12 Yellow Humpy size 14 Yellow Humpy size 16 Orange Stimulator size 12 Orange Stimulator size 14 Orange Stimulator size 16 if one of peculiar tastes was to expand their horizons….. Orange Ausable Wulff (brookies love ‘em) March Browns…… especially in March! BWO’s yellowthangy parachute Tan or grey elk hair caddis Sulphurs…. all styles anything with yellow. anything with orange. small wet flies dropped behind a stimulator…… (i caught way too many fish yesterday using a yellahammer dropper) for bottom dwellers, the following nymphs are standard fare…. beadhead princes, hare’s ear, pheasant tails….. for big brown trout….. big olive wooly buggers. for selective trout….. size 20-24 cdc emergers or griffiths gnats. hope this helps…. Tight Lines, –Walt Fly Fishing NC & more… http://www.ezflyfish.com http://www.wilsoncreekoutfitters.com

Response:

Point 1: you have my sympathy. This hobby will soon turn into an obsession Point 2: You’ve received some great advice from some real experts.

Hey, I thought my advice was great too.

Response:

Having just(moved here and) gotten into flyfishing, I was wondering if I could only buy 10 flies—which ones (size,color?)would YOU have to have to in your vest?

I don’t think you need 10 patterns.  Pick the flies based on the water type. In western NC that means basically freestone mountain streams that are relatively infertile.  That means a lot of pocket water and opportunistic rather than selective trout .  So use something that stays afloat (if it’s a dry fly) and the fish can see in the broken water.  So use a #12 Parachute Adams or #14 Humpy and save the #18 No-hackle BWO and #22 Griffith’s Gnat for the tailwaters and spring creeks.  Go a little bigger and/or a little fuzzier and/or a little more flash.  A #14 beadhead Hare’s Ear nymph instead of a #18 Pheasant Tail.  Any searching pattern will catch fish, since there are no bigtime haches that the trout get real selective to in most waters (there might be exceptions, such as midges on the Davidson).  A Parachute Adams is more or less a mayfly imitation, but on infertile waters the fish take it as a gray Thingamajiggy that fell out of a tree for all I know. I’ve noticed that yellow seems to be favored in dry flies by fishermen in the Blue Ridge.  Yellow Humpies, yellow/orange stimulators, Harry Murray’s Mr. Rapidan (yellow wings and yellow mixed into the dubbing), Walt’s Yallahammer, etc.

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Question:

I expect to take golf up again after a haitius of 25+ years. (The walking did me in:)) The plan is is to start off on weekdays at in the fall, on carts, by myself at a Publinx. I expect to have trouble breaking 200 for starters:) I expect though to get better if I stick with it. However I would not be suprised if I never get the equivilent of a 100 on a real hard championship course. But I am going to do it to enjoy myself and the nice weather when there is nice weather. (Dry, between 60 and 75 degrees, no wind, a little warmer with wind. I wonder if most people have lost the ability to enjoy some of life’s simpler pleasures? I wonder if it would happen to me?:) I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend until YOUR DEATH your right to say it! –Austin 3:17 JOHN A. MONTGOMERY

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I expect to take golf up again after a haitius of 25+ years. (The walking did me in:)) The plan is is to start off on weekdays at in the fall, on carts, by myself at a Publinx. I expect to have trouble breaking 200 for starters:) I expect though to get better if I stick with it. However I would not be suprised if I never get the equivilent of a 100 on a real hard championship course. But I am going to do it to enjoy myself and the nice weather when there is nice weather. (Dry, between 60 and 75 degrees, no wind, a little warmer with wind. I wonder if most people have lost the ability to enjoy some of life’s simpler pleasures? I wonder if it would happen to me?:)

Nah. Just look at the ones going to organized RSG events. ‘Cept for Ken, who loves winning a bet with someone. Get back to playing, and enjoy the ~4 hours of therapy. I’m going for my session tomorrow (Where are you Thor?) -T- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend until YOUR DEATH your right to say it! –Austin 3:17 JOHN A. MONTGOMERY

Response:

Do people take golf too seriously?

Why, I should kill you for even asking such a silly question!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I expect to take golf up again after a haitius of 25+ years. (The walking did me in:)) The plan is is to start off on weekdays at in the fall, on carts, by myself at a Publinx. I expect to have trouble breaking 200 for starters:) I expect though to get better if I stick with it. However I would not be suprised if I never get the equivilent of a 100 on a real hard championship course. But I am going to do it to enjoy myself and the nice weather when there is nice weather. (Dry, between 60 and 75 degrees, no wind, a little warmer with wind. I wonder if most people have lost the ability to enjoy some of life’s simpler pleasures? I wonder if it would happen to me?:)

In fly fishing, there’s a saying that maybe the mark of a fisherman should not be how big of a fish will satisfy him, but how small of a fish he can catch and be satisfied.  I suppose there’s something similar in golf.  Good luck, doesn’t work for me

Response:

In fly fishing, there’s a saying that maybe the mark of a fisherman should not be how big of a fish will satisfy him, but how small of a fish he can catch and be satisfied.  

With me, probably anything with over a pound of filet in it. Last time I ever fished was 40 years from a boat in a like, caufgt zilch. I can’t remember if I ever caught a keeper in my life:) I read somewhere that fish often bite for people who smell good to them:) I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend until YOUR DEATH your right to say it! –Austin 3:17 JOHN A. MONTGOMERY

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I expect to take golf up again after a haitius of 25+ years. (The walking did me in:)) The plan is is to start off on weekdays at in the fall, on carts, by myself at a Publinx. I expect to have trouble breaking 200 for starters:) I expect though to get better if I stick with it. However I would not be suprised if I never get the equivilent of a 100 on a real hard championship course. But I am going to do it to enjoy myself and the nice weather when there is nice weather. (Dry, between 60 and 75 degrees, no wind, a little warmer with wind. I wonder if most people have lost the ability to enjoy some of life’s simpler pleasures? I wonder if it would happen to me?:) I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend until YOUR DEATH your right to say it! –Austin 3:17 JOHN A. MONTGOMERY

 hey john what’s your POD, oops this isn’t shwi.  but seriously, do some people take golf too seriously, nah  cursing, throwing clubs is just their way of unwinding  bud

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Someone asked… Do people take golf too seriously? Well… I try… dsc

Response:

Teresa please do yourself a great favor by reading the golfswinger course and practice what it teaches to the letter…exercise is important for your swing to work properly and naturally…get in shape and stay in shape. Tell me in 6 months that you are a low handicapper. Al http://golfswinger.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I expect to take golf up again after a haitius of 25+ years. (The walking did me in:)) The plan is is to start off on weekdays at in the fall, on carts, by myself at a Publinx. I expect to have trouble breaking 200 for starters:) I expect though to get better if I stick with it. However I would not be suprised if I never get the equivilent of a 100 on a real hard championship course. But I am going to do it to enjoy myself and the nice weather when there is nice weather. (Dry, between 60 and 75 degrees, no wind, a little warmer with wind. I wonder if most people have lost the ability to enjoy some of life’s simpler pleasures? I wonder if it would happen to me?:) Nah. Just look at the ones going to organized RSG events. ‘Cept for Ken, who loves winning a bet with someone. Get back to playing, and enjoy the ~4 hours of therapy. I’m going for my session tomorrow (Where are you Thor?) -T- I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend until YOUR DEATH your right to say it! –Austin 3:17 JOHN A. MONTGOMERY

Response:

Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. Secondly, what were you refering to? -T-

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Teresa please do yourself a great favor by reading the golfswinger course and practice what it teaches to the letter…exercise is important for your swing to work properly and naturally…get in shape and stay in shape. Tell me in 6 months that you are a low handicapper. Al http://golfswinger.com I expect to take golf up again after a haitius of 25+ years. (The walking did me in:)) The plan is is to start off on weekdays at in the fall, on carts, by myself at a Publinx. I expect to have trouble breaking 200 for starters:) I expect though to get better if I stick with it. However I would not be suprised if I never get the equivilent of a 100 on a real hard championship course. But I am going to do it to enjoy myself and the nice weather when there is nice weather. (Dry, between 60 and 75 degrees, no wind, a little warmer with wind. I wonder if most people have lost the ability to enjoy some of life’s simpler pleasures? I wonder if it would happen to me?:) Nah. Just look at the ones going to organized RSG events. ‘Cept for Ken, who loves winning a bet with someone. Get back to playing, and enjoy the ~4 hours of therapy. I’m going for my session tomorrow (Where are you Thor?) -T- I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend until YOUR DEATH your right to say it! –Austin 3:17 JOHN A. MONTGOMERY

Response:

Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. Secondly, what were you refering to?

He’s referring to a website that he has promoted in no less than five different threads. Hey Al, do us a favor…get lost. Dave Clary/Corpus Christi,TX http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary RSG Roll Call http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/claryd.htm

Response:

Come on, is it possible to take golf too seriously?

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Teresa please do yourself a great favor by reading the golfswinger course and practice what it teaches to the letter…exercise is important for your swing to work properly and naturally…get in shape and stay in shape. Tell me in 6 months that you are a low handicapper. Al

Buzz off with this crap Al!

Response:

Oh I know…. I was trying to be a nice person instead of saying F&*^ off! When in doubt, kill them with kindness. -T-

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. Secondly, what were you refering to? He’s referring to a website that he has promoted in no less than five different threads. Hey Al, do us a favor…get lost. Dave Clary/Corpus Christi,TX http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary RSG Roll Call http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/claryd.htm

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Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. Secondly, what were you refering to? He’s referring to a website that he has promoted in no less than five different threads.

I think she was being funny – referring to the old thread where a woman (different woman?) asked for advice for when somebody on the driving range tries to help with her swing and won’t take no for an answer.  Teresa’s post is basically one of the replies that woman got

Response:

You are most likely continuously correcting faults in the basis of your swing instead of learning how to have a great swing forever. Try it, it can’t hurt you. Simple and uncomplicated. It will only improve you. Show it to you "Professional" as I.I’m sure he too will benefit.Al

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. Secondly, what were you refering to? He’s referring to a website that he has promoted in no less than five different threads. I think she was being funny – referring to the old thread where a woman (different woman?) asked for advice for when somebody on the driving range tries to help with her swing and won’t take no for an answer.  Teresa’s post is basically one of the replies that woman got

Response:

Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. -T-

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You are most likely continuously correcting faults in the basis of your swing instead of learning how to have a great swing forever. Try it, it can’t hurt you. Simple and uncomplicated. It will only improve you. Show it to you "Professional" as I.I’m sure he too will benefit.Al Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. Secondly, what were you refering to? He’s referring to a website that he has promoted in no less than five different threads. I think she was being funny – referring to the old thread where a woman (different woman?) asked for advice for when somebody on the driving range tries to help with her swing and won’t take no for an answer.  Teresa’s post is basically one of the replies that woman got

Response:

You are most likely continuously correcting faults in the basis of your swing instead of learning how to have a great swing forever. Try it, it can’t hurt you. Simple and uncomplicated. It will only improve you. Show it to you "Professional" as I.I’m sure he too will benefit.Al "Jeff Connelly" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. -T- You are most likely continuously correcting faults in the basis of your swing instead of learning how to have a great swing forever. Try it, it can’t hurt you. Simple and uncomplicated. It will only improve you. Show it to you "Professional" as I.I’m sure he too will benefit.Al Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. Secondly, what were you refering to? He’s referring to a website that he has promoted in no less than five different threads. I think she was being funny – referring to the old thread where a woman (different woman?) asked for advice for when somebody on the driving range tries to help with her swing and won’t take no for an answer. Teresa’s post is basically one of the replies that woman got

Response:

You are most likely continuously correcting faults in the basis of your swing instead of learning how to have a great swing forever. Try it, it can’t hurt you. Simple and uncomplicated. It will only improve you. Show it to you "Professional" as I.I’m sure he too will benefit.Al

Is my server screwing up, or is Al losing it?  This seems like "Groundhog Day".

Response:

I’ve tried being nice, and you won’t get the hint. F*** OFF! I am not interested in your S****! Sincerely, -T-

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You are most likely continuously correcting faults in the basis of your swing instead of learning how to have a great swing forever. Try it, it can’t hurt you. Simple and uncomplicated. It will only improve you. Show it to you "Professional" as I.I’m sure he too will benefit.Al "Jeff Connelly" Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. -T- You are most likely continuously correcting faults in the basis of your swing instead of learning how to have a great swing forever. Try it, it can’t hurt you. Simple and uncomplicated. It will only improve you. Show it to you "Professional" as I.I’m sure he too will benefit.Al Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. Secondly, what were you refering to? He’s referring to a website that he has promoted in no less than five different threads. I think she was being funny – referring to the old thread where a woman (different woman?) asked for advice for when somebody on the driving range tries to help with her swing and won’t take no for an answer. Teresa’s post is basically one of the replies that woman got

Response:

Aw come on, tell him what you really think – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve tried being nice, and you won’t get the hint. F*** OFF! I am not interested in your S****! Sincerely, -T- You are most likely continuously correcting faults in the basis of your swing instead of learning how to have a great swing forever. Try it, it can’t hurt you. Simple and uncomplicated. It will only improve you. Show it to you "Professional" as I.I’m sure he too will benefit.Al "Jeff Connelly" in Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. -T- You are most likely continuously correcting faults in the basis of your swing instead of learning how to have a great swing forever. Try it, it can’t hurt you. Simple and uncomplicated. It will only improve you. Show it to you "Professional" as I.I’m sure he too will benefit.Al Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. Secondly, what were you refering to? He’s referring to a website that he has promoted in no less than five different threads. I think she was being funny – referring to the old thread where a woman (different woman?) asked for advice for when somebody on the driving range tries to help with her swing and won’t take no for an answer. Teresa’s post is basically one of the replies that woman got

Response:

I’ve tried being nice, and you won’t get the hint. F*** OFF! I am not interested in your S****! Sincerely, -T-

Nicely done!  Now I really hope to meet you at RSG DFW.  You not only look like Bruce Willis, you can cuss like him!

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Teresa……what balls do you play with? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve tried being nice, and you won’t get the hint. F*** OFF! I am not interested in your S****! Sincerely, -T- You are most likely continuously correcting faults in the basis of your swing instead of learning how to have a great swing forever. Try it, it can’t hurt you. Simple and uncomplicated. It will only improve you. Show it to you "Professional" as I.I’m sure he too will benefit.Al "Jeff Connelly" Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. -T- You are most likely continuously correcting faults in the basis of your swing instead of learning how to have a great swing forever. Try it, it can’t hurt you. Simple and uncomplicated. It will only improve you. Show it to you "Professional" as I.I’m sure he too will benefit.Al Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. Secondly, what were you refering to? He’s referring to a website that he has promoted in no less than five different threads. I think she was being funny – referring to the old thread where a woman (different woman?) asked for advice for when somebody on the driving range tries to help with her swing and won’t take no for an answer. Teresa’s post is basically one of the replies that woman got

Response:

I believe when she wrote "F*** OFF! I am not interested in your S****!" she was attempting to put an end to your unsolicited advice.  Your question as to what balls she plays with seems to me to be a continuation of said adivce.  I get the feeling no matter what balls she uses you will tell her to read the golfswinger course.  Perhaps it would be a good idea for you to follow her suggestion… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Teresa……what balls do you play with? I’ve tried being nice, and you won’t get the hint. F*** OFF! I am not interested in your S****! Sincerely, -T- You are most likely continuously correcting faults in the basis of your swing instead of learning how to have a great swing forever. Try it, it can’t hurt you. Simple and uncomplicated. It will only improve you. Show it to you "Professional" as I.I’m sure he too will benefit.Al "Jeff Connelly" Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. -T- You are most likely continuously correcting faults in the basis of your swing instead of learning how to have a great swing forever. Try it, it can’t hurt you. Simple and uncomplicated. It will only improve you. Show it to you "Professional" as I.I’m sure he too will benefit.Al Excuse me, sir, but I have a professional working with me on my game. I am afraid to listen to more than one teacher who might confuse what he is instructing me on. Thank you for your efforts. Secondly, what were you refering to? He’s referring to a website that he has promoted in no less than five different threads. I think she was being funny – referring to the old thread where a woman (different woman?) asked for advice for when somebody on the driving range tries to help with her swing and won’t take no for an answer. Teresa’s post is basically one of the replies that woman got

Response:

Teresa……what balls do you play with? I’ve tried being nice, and you won’t get the hint. F*** OFF! I am not interested in your S****!

Al: You’re jacking with one of the favorite posters on this ng, and a super lady.  I suggest that you stop.   ___,     o        |       /      .   "Someone likes every shot" bk

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Question:

I may end up spending most of this summer in Sarajevo on business.  Are there significant opportunities for fly fishing in Bosnia?  More fundamentally, even if there is good fishing is it a reasonable thing to do, or are the chances of involuntarily aiding the demining operations too high? I was also wondering about fishing in Slovenia.  I don

Question:

Actually, it will work just fine.  If you are having trouble getting a big, bushy dry out there with a bow/arrow cast, try building up a leader that is quite heavy through the butt and mid sections, dropping off to a fairly long tippet of light material.  The leader will unroll just like the fly line, and the tippet will pile.  Size the leader to give you the kind of distance you want. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can’t do any normal cast due to all the vegetation.  However, I also can’t do a role cast due to the spot being under an overhang.  The Clarence is about 2 feet. Howdy Vern, Get mad if you want, but an ultralight spinning outfit would be ideal, swing it up under there with a couple of splitshot…I keep an ultralight reel spooled with 4# stren in my vest for just this occasion and yes those are Pautzkee stains on my vest. I can try this.  However, I don’t think it will work with a dry fly.  I’m first going to try the Bow and Arrow cast. Vern

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[short casting snipped] Since everyone here is doing the b&a, somebody has to be the asshole and be different.  My turn.  The b&a will work of course, but there are alternatives.  One method I use with slow rods; pickup as if doing a conventional cast but begin the forward cast while the fly is still in front of you.  It takes a smooth, low power stroke, but it works. Peter

        this is worth a try:  if you can face the center of the creek, while standing, or squatting, at the left bank, allow your line to drift downstream the same length necessary to reach your target. then, when the line is at its greatest "stretch", just fire a single forward cast with your rod parallel with the stream surface. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Vern; Get in the water upstream of the spot and shake out enough lose line to drift your fly downstream to the fish John Before you buy.

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Otherwise Fishless in Kansas

You’re probably going to need to find some farm ponds or get a boat (or a float tube) to do any fly fishing around there. Can be done, though. — Charlie…

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get the machete out of the truck and clear out your backcast then go and make some clearance on the other side down a few beers and take an nap to wait for the fish to calm down then make your regular cast to the fish. take less time than perfecting the b&a cast – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I also need help casting to that "G" spot.  You know, that GREAT spot.  Let me described the location.  I can see the spot about 15 feet away if I stand with vegetation behind me, to the left of me, and to the right of me.  I can’t do any normal cast due to all the vegetation.  However, I also can’t do a role cast due to the spot being under an overhang.  The Clarence is about 2 feet.  Additionally, it’s on a small body of water that doesn’t seam to have any real service current to speak of.  So, floating the fly under the overhang is not an option. I know there are fish under the overhang.  Sometimes I can see them surfacing.  I just can’t get my fly where I want it.  WHAT KIND OF CAST CAN I DO TO

GET IT A good friend taught me how to fish such a place with out the b&a cast. Wayno has the right idea. Especially at 15 feet, let line drift down, pick up the line and begin a back cast to where the target is. Don’t forward cast, let the fly drop on the backcast to the spot. — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

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Vern, Bow and Arrow Cast!!! Joe Humphries demonstrates it in his small stream tactics video. However…please note: It is not pleasant to grasp the hook at the bend, pull back and release only to find the hook imbedded in your thumb as the rod is still reverberating in your other hand. It hurts like hell and worse, it puts all the fish down in three counties as you’re cussin’ up a storm. As Tom mentions, pinch the flyline at the leader junction, pull back and release. Matt & I use this technique quite a bit up here…in fact, it is a variation of the looping flyline technique of the b&a that Humphries demonstrates. Just be sure to keep the leader/tippet/fly in front of you or else as you release it you could be hooked in a worse place then your thumb. Always wear glasses ..trust me on this one. You can also have a leader/tippet combo as long as you like…a good b&a technique will turn it over. You can also increase length just by pinching further up the flyline (thus increasing the amount of "dead" line to be energized) and when you become really proficient at it (Matt has it mastered) you can actually b&a a cast as the line is still on the water as it is drifting back to you. Hope this helps, Walt — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

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everyone else has properly suggested the bow & arrow cast… me, i’d simply find a taller Clarence… jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    However, I also can’t do a role cast due to the spot being under an overhang.  The Clarence is about 2 feet. Vern

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[short casting snipped] Since everyone here is doing the b&a, somebody has to be the asshole and be different.  My turn.  The b&a will work of course, but there are alternatives.  One method I use with slow rods; pickup as if doing a conventional cast but begin the forward cast while the fly is still in front of you.  It takes a smooth, low power stroke, but it works. Peter

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I can’t do any normal cast due to all the vegetation.  However, I also can’t do a role cast due to the spot being under an overhang.  The Clarence is about 2 feet. Howdy Vern, Get mad if you want, but an ultralight spinning outfit would be ideal, swing it up under there with a couple of splitshot…I keep an ultralight reel spooled with 4# stren in my vest for just this occasion and yes those are Pautzkee stains on my vest.

I can try this.  However, I don’t think it will work with a dry fly.  I’m first going to try the Bow and Arrow cast. Vern

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  I could use a little help.  Well, I do need psychological help, but that’s not what I’m talking about today.  I also need help casting to that "G" spot.  You know, that GREAT spot.  Let me described the location.  I can see the spot about 15 feet away if I stand with vegetation behind me, to the left of me, and to the right of me.  I can’t do any normal cast due to all the vegetation.  However, I also can’t do a role cast due to the spot being under an overhang.  The Clarence is about 2 feet.  Additionally, it’s on a small body of water that doesn’t seam to have any real service current to speak of.  So, floating the fly under the overhang is not an option.  I know there are fish under the overhang.  Sometimes I can see them surfacing.  I just can’t get my fly where I want it.  WHAT KIND OF CAST CAN I DO TO GET IT THERE? Vern

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I guess the reason Jack posted this four times is because there are four fingers you should watch. Ernie Harrison Have you tried a Blood Knot Machine?  http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Use the bow and arrow cast. A good article appeared in Flyfisher several months ago describing how it is done. You basically grab the fly at the hook bend, hold the line tight with your casting hand, and pull the fly to put a bend in the rod. Let go of the fly and let the rod shoot the fly to the target. I would suggest using barbless hooks just in case. With practice, reasonable distance can be obtained. Good luck and watch your fingers. Jack in Tenn.

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Walt Winter showed me a variation if the bow and arrow cast, used with a 5-6 foot leader/tippet.  You grasp the line at the junction of the line/leader, load the rod and release.  The difference between this and other variations (like Joe Humphreys) is that you can get a longer piece of line out with Walt’s method. It’s absolutely deadly. Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC "If you’re not the lead dog, the view never changes." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <SNIP  A bow and arrow cast will work at that range.  Grasp your fly firmly between your thumb and forefinger of your non-rod hand. Tension your rod by bending it away from you with your rod hand. Aim like you would with a slingshot, and just let go.  If you practice a little at this at home before you go fishing you can get pretty accurate, TL MC

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<snip bow and arrow cast.

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Use the bow and arrow cast. A good article appeared in Flyfisher several months ago describing how it is done. You basically grab the fly at the hook bend, hold the line tight with your casting hand, and pull the fly to put a bend in the rod. Let go of the fly and let the rod shoot the fly to the target. I would suggest using barbless hooks just in case. With practice, reasonable distance can be obtained. Good luck and watch your fingers. Jack in Tenn.

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<SNIP  A bow and arrow cast will work at that range.  Grasp your fly firmly between your thumb and forefinger of your non-rod hand. Tension your rod by bending it away from you with your rod hand. Aim like you would with a slingshot, and just let go.  If you practice a little at this at home before you go fishing you can get pretty accurate, TL MC

Response:

I can’t do any normal cast due to all the vegetation.  However, I also can’t do a role cast due to the spot being under an overhang.  The Clarence is about 2 feet.

Howdy Vern, Get mad if you want, but an ultralight spinning outfit would be ideal, swing it up under there with a couple of splitshot…I keep an ultralight reel spooled with 4# stren in my vest for just this occasion and yes those are Pautzkee stains on my vest. But, if you need to prove a point with the flyrod…a bow and arrow cast comes to mind as does the use of a 10′-er and the same general dapping principle. Your pal, — TimW

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I’m just wondering why no one recommended the BOW AND ARROW CAST…

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WHAT KIND OF CAST CAN I DO TO GET IT THERE?

Bow and arrow cast. — Charlie…

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – some 2nd Amendment Gun Oil for your guns?  I’ll be glad to send you a bottle. Best stuff for any weapon you have, especially for anything auto or semi automatic.  Best in the world but the Pentagon doesn’t know it yet.  (as usual). Be glad to send you ‘a sample’.  On me.  It will save you four bucks.  (Expensive stuff to make).  You’re worth a regiment here on ROFF pard. got to keep your fire power up. Mr. G. —

Question:

I recommend a 16 ft Mad River Explorer.

Me too. I don’t know how far around the block this conversation has gone, but for my way over 2-cents worth of experience goes, there is NO better all around boat (considering performance, versatility, cost, looks, maintenance, etc) than the 16 foot MR Explorer.  Period.  Anyone buying a canoe should plan an spending a little more for this boat as a starter, then expect to never need to buy another all-around canoe again. See my sig file. — riverman I think, therefore I thwim. Carpe ropum. "There is NO better all around boat (considering performance, versatility, cost, looks, maintenance, etc) than the 16 foot MR Explorer. Period."

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I love Mad River boats BUT one might get a little argument about the Explorer being the best all rounder from Swift Kipawa fans. who would suggest that the Kipawa is more stable more speedy (and faster too) more capacious more maneuverable more white water capable more seaworthy and more perttier. — Lyle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recommend a 16 ft Mad River Explorer. Me too. I don’t know how far around the block this conversation has gone, but for my way over 2-cents worth of experience goes, there is NO better all around boat (considering performance, versatility, cost, looks, maintenance, etc) than the 16 foot MR Explorer.  Period.  Anyone buying a canoe should plan an spending a little more for this boat as a starter, then expect to never need to buy another all-around canoe again. See my sig file. — riverman I think, therefore I thwim. Carpe ropum. "There is NO better all around boat (considering performance, versatility, cost, looks, maintenance, etc) than the 16 foot MR Explorer. Period."

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I recommend a 16 ft Mad River Explorer. Me too. I don’t know how far around the block this conversation has gone, but for my way over 2-cents worth of experience goes, there is NO better all around boat (considering performance, versatility, cost, looks, maintenance, etc) than the 16 foot MR Explorer.  Period.  Anyone buying a canoe should plan an spending a little more for this boat as a starter, then expect to never need to buy another all-around canoe again. See my sig file.

If you want one boat that will do everything, I agree (though I haven’t tried the Swift).  If you want a boat for primarily or exclusively flatwater, then there are better choices out there in composite/fiberglass/kevlar — Andrew

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I recommend a 16 ft Mad River Explorer.

It’s been a while since I purchased my first boat, and I don’t know much about what’s out there, but my general comment would be buy the best boat you can afford.  Don’t spare the horses.  Talk to people in a local canoe and kayak club, and get their recommendations on brands. Tell them what you want to do with the boat–that’s the important part.

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I recommend a 16 ft Mad River Explorer. It’s been a while since I purchased my first boat, and I don’t know much about what’s out there, but my general comment would be buy the best boat you can afford.  Don’t spare the horses.  Talk to people in a local canoe and kayak club, and get their recommendations on brands. Tell them what you want to do with the boat–that’s the important part.

I’ve been a kayaker for a while now, but just recently my new girlfriend wanted a canoe for us.  Have been looking for a used Royalite, or Royalex canoe for a couple months — just today we found it! I consulted with other canoe-types in the club, and this Mohawk Nova 16 (or other similar brands/models) seemed to do it all.  It is Royalex.  This is the exact one we got today, used for $500 with four float bags.  Boats like this are sort of "Do It All" dealies. Each time some new person asks "Which Canoe should i get?" i always say ‘Buy a used, decent brand’ and this is the first time i’ve had to try it out. We like this boat!

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I recommend a 16 ft Mad River Explorer. I own both an Old Town Discovery and the Explorer, and find the Old Town is too heavy to carry any distance (not to mention lift). The Explorer is lighter, handles better, and yes, it’s easier on the eyes. The Discovery might plow through rocks better, but takes on water in the slightest chops. I used to own a Coleman, I’m glad it died an ugly rocky death long ago. http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/5189/index.htm Reach out and touch a rock – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death until some are sick of it, but being new to this group, thought I’d seek some advice anyway. Am going to buy a canoe this spring, & am in a quandry about the wisest choice, while still keeping to a reasonable price. Having seen very few used canoes for sale in my area, so looks like it might be a new canoe. I plan to use the canoe for hitting some lakes in my region with my sons….do some fly fishing, canoe camp occasionally, that type of thing. If the canoe I end up getting is worthy, the canoe might see some river use (probably nothing worse than Class II, possibly a little Class III, but maybe not), & might also make it to such places as Bowron Lakes & Myrtle Lake in B.C. for more extended canoe camping & paddling (with more portages, a person should start looking at weight….now the cost of the lighter canoes jumps up & introduces itself). I’ve looked at Old Town, Wenonah, Mad River, etc. A person could spend $1000 – $1400 for one of their lighter canoes, or could pay ~$700 for an Old Town Discovery that would suit the bill, but is somewhat heavier. Might also look at a Marathon, Grumman, Osagian, or Alumaweld aluminum canoe as well in that price range. Money being an object here, the price of a Coleman canoe (go ahead, let me have it!) locally is $269 – $319 looks pretty attractive. I know the Coleman would be a rugged, durable canoe. Trying to decide if it’s wiser to get a lighter, more quality designed canoe that would be more versatile in the long term, even if I have to charge !/2 of it or more, or pay cash for something like a Coleman since I’m fairly new to the sport, & would welcome advice from those who have already made such decisions. Would also welcome info about used canoes for sale where freight to eastern Washington wouldn’t be a deterrant. Thanks!

Response:

The coleman is a good boat for short paddles around a quiet lake once in a while

With a dang, clanging Coleman, the lake’s not going to stay quiet for long. It’s practically a percussion instrument Eddy "Colemans are for keeping beer cool" Rapid.

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It sounds like you’ve been doing your research.  I agree with all your points. About three years ago, I faced the same question.  Like you, I wanted the best for the least.  I purchased a OT Disco158.  I like it fine but if I had the opportunity to make that decision again, I would save a little more money and by the lighter boat with a more efficient hull.  I use it mostly for day paddling with my wife or fishing with my children.  I’ve run a class III in it but don’t suggest it.  I’ve paddled it 32 miles through the Okeefenokee swamp and camped out of it.  I am not interested in getting rid of it but, would not buy another. I understand the Disco169 has a more efficient hull but, it weighs in at a hefty 85lbs. You will find that weight makes more of a difference than you think.  I can car-top my 80lb canoe by myself but "it ain’t pretty."  The yolk makes it easier to carry but it still weighs 80lbs.  A lighter canoe will respond better to corrections/steering and may even be a little faster. If you can stand to wait, I’d recommend it.  You’ll just end up wanting to buy different one in a few years.  I would have by now but I am discovering both sea and whitewater kayaks! Oh yeah, one other thing.  If you really think you’re going to enjoy the sport, don’t give the Coleman too much thought.  You really DO get what you pay for in a canoe. Eric da Grate – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death until some are sick of it, but being new to this group, thought I’d seek some advice anyway. Am going to buy a canoe this spring, & am in a quandry about the wisest choice, while still keeping to a reasonable price. Having seen very few used canoes for sale in my area, so looks like it might be a new canoe. I plan to use the canoe for hitting some lakes in my region with my sons….do some fly fishing, canoe camp occasionally, that type of thing. If the canoe I end up getting is worthy, the canoe might see some river use (probably nothing worse than Class II, possibly a little Class III, but maybe not), & might also make it to such places as Bowron Lakes & Myrtle Lake in B.C. for more extended canoe camping & paddling (with more portages, a person should start looking at weight….now the cost of the lighter canoes jumps up & introduces itself). I’ve looked at Old Town, Wenonah, Mad River, etc. A person could spend $1000 – $1400 for one of their lighter canoes, or could pay ~$700 for an Old Town Discovery that would suit the bill, but is somewhat heavier. Might also look at a Marathon, Grumman, Osagian, or Alumaweld aluminum canoe as well in that price range. Money being an object here, the price of a Coleman canoe (go ahead, let me have it!) locally is $269 – $319 looks pretty attractive. I know the Coleman would be a rugged, durable canoe. Trying to decide if it’s wiser to get a lighter, more quality designed canoe that would be more versatile in the long term, even if I have to charge !/2 of it or more, or pay cash for something like a Coleman since I’m fairly new to the sport, & would welcome advice from those who have already made such decisions. Would also welcome info about used canoes for sale where freight to eastern Washington wouldn’t be a deterrant. Thanks!

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Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death…    

                        ~* s n i p *~ If you don’t mind the $65 or so shipping charge, try calling one of the companies someone mentioned else mentioned earlier: Rutabaga in Madison, Wisconsin sells LOTS of boats.  They always have new Old Town blems on hand at a greatly reduced rate.  Not a bad deal for a first boat.   They will be getting lots of used boats in another month after their annual "Canoecopia" show; many people will be trading in their boats for something new. Give them a call at 800-472-3353 (800-I-PADDLE) or check out their website:  www.paddlers.com Tell Darren I sent ya. Good luck. — To reply by email, remove mapson. from the edress Check out the links page at this site: www.paddlers.com

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Thank you all for the replies & advice. I realize that researching a purchase like this, then even trying out different boats would be the best of all worlds, but hearing from folks that have been there is also a definite help. Thanks again!

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If the Coleman is the only way you are going to get on the water, do it!  If you want a boat, get one of the others.  Go demo some boats. The newsgroups cannot tell you how you will feel in a boat.  you need to try them.  Borrow a Coleman and then you can feel the pain in your lower back as you haul it to the water.  Then you will be informed. Try a lake boat with a keel in a moving river and learn why a keel is not too swell in moving water.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death until some are sick of it, but being new to this group, thought I’d seek some advice anyway. Am going to buy a canoe this spring, & am in a quandry about the wisest choice, while still keeping to a reasonable price. Having seen very few used canoes for sale in my area, so looks like it might be a new canoe. I plan to use the canoe for hitting some lakes in my region with my sons….do some fly fishing, canoe camp occasionally, that type of thing. If the canoe I end up getting is worthy, the canoe might see some river use (probably nothing worse than Class II, possibly a little Class III, but maybe not), & might also make it to such places as Bowron Lakes & Myrtle Lake in B.C. for more extended canoe camping & paddling (with more portages, a person should start looking at weight….now the cost of the lighter canoes jumps up & introduces itself). I’ve looked at Old Town, Wenonah, Mad River, etc. A person could spend $1000 – $1400 for one of their lighter canoes, or could pay ~$700 for an Old Town Discovery that would suit the bill, but is somewhat heavier. Might also look at a Marathon, Grumman, Osagian, or Alumaweld aluminum canoe as well in that price range. Money being an object here, the price of a Coleman canoe (go ahead, let me have it!) locally is $269 – $319 looks pretty attractive. I know the Coleman would be a rugged, durable canoe. Trying to decide if it’s wiser to get a lighter, more quality designed canoe that would be more versatile in the long term, even if I have to charge !/2 of it or more, or pay cash for something like a Coleman since I’m fairly new to the sport, & would welcome advice from those who have already made such decisions. Would also welcome info about used canoes for sale where freight to eastern Washington wouldn’t be a deterrant. Thanks!

patrickatcyberhighwaydotnet

Response:

Hello!

Well hello to you! I know the Coleman would be a rugged, durable canoe.

Actually, they aren’t.  Not compared to Old Town, Mad RIver, Mohawk, etc.  I wouldn’t want to hit too many rocks with a coleman.  Aluminum canoes are extremely durable, but, and this is a BIG BUTT, it’s hard to keep the suckers quiet.  Each and every time you place your paddle in the boat, you and every fish within 300 feet will hear the ‘thud’. I hear the Boy Scouts using them all the time at Upper Priest lake in Idaho…very noisy. already made such decisions. Would also welcome info about used canoes for sale where freight to eastern Washington wouldn’t be a deterrant. Thanks!

You live around here in Spokane?  You join the Spokane Canoe and Kayak Club yet?  I’m the newsletter editor.  We’re having our largest meeting/auction/potluck of the year come February 26th — next friday. If you wanna see a LOT of activity, come see it.  Email me if you want more info.

Response:

For the money you’re looking to spend, I would suggest you test paddle an OT Penobscot 17.  I’ve used mine quite a bit on lakes in minneapolis and in the BWCA.  It’s got moderate initial stability, fantastic secondary stability.  It has no rocker so it tracks like a arrow, but turns like a pig.  Leaning into a turn can give you a good bit of effective rocker.  Its a great tripping boat.

Response:

Tom, I was in your position a few years ago, let me tell you what I bought. I found that the best tradeoff for weight, durability, and cost, for lake and occasional class I/II rivers is fiberglass.  Not the cheap chopper gun variety, but a canoe made up of decent sheet materials.  I chose a Wenonah, largely because I have a great local dealer who sells them (as well as Mad River). Fiberglass advantages are hull stiffness without bulk which = paddling efficiency, no flex while paddling, easily repairable if it does become damaged, etc.  Fiberglass slips across rocks in a low water condition much better than aluminum – avoid that material at all costs if you plan on running low water.  About the only disadvantage is that the gel coat looks beautiful when new, and quickly gets scraped up pretty bad – but that means you’re actually USING the boat, doesn’t it? Your ideal boat in a plastic would be royalex – much lighter than the Old Town crosslink.  It’s well worth the upgrade cost.  I see tons of the Discovery boats for sale – and no royalex boats for sale!! You don’t find many (good) canoes for sale, because most people have no reason to sell them! They’re not that expensive, and last a lifetime with reasonable care. Good luck! Lou – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death until some are sick of it, but being new to this group, thought I’d seek some advice anyway. Am going to buy a canoe this spring, & am in a quandry about the wisest choice, while still keeping to a reasonable price. Having seen very few used canoes for sale in my area, so looks like it might be a new canoe. I plan to use the canoe for hitting some lakes in my region with my sons….do some fly fishing, canoe camp occasionally, that type of thing. If the canoe I end up getting is worthy, the canoe might see some river use (probably nothing worse than Class II, possibly a little Class III, but maybe not), & might also make it to such places as Bowron Lakes & Myrtle Lake in B.C. for more extended canoe camping & paddling (with more portages, a person should start looking at weight….now the cost of the lighter canoes jumps up & introduces itself). I’ve looked at Old Town, Wenonah, Mad River, etc. A person could spend $1000 – $1400 for one of their lighter canoes, or could pay ~$700 for an Old Town Discovery that would suit the bill, but is somewhat heavier. Might also look at a Marathon, Grumman, Osagian, or Alumaweld aluminum canoe as well in that price range. Money being an object here, the price of a Coleman canoe (go ahead, let me have it!) locally is $269 – $319 looks pretty attractive. I know the Coleman would be a rugged, durable canoe. Trying to decide if it’s wiser to get a lighter, more quality designed canoe that would be more versatile in the long term, even if I have to charge !/2 of it or more, or pay cash for something like a Coleman since I’m fairly new to the sport, & would welcome advice from those who have already made such decisions. Would also welcome info about used canoes for sale where freight to eastern Washington wouldn’t be a deterrant. Thanks!

Response:

Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death until some are sick of it, but being new to this group, thought I’d seek some advice anyway. Am going to buy a canoe this spring, & am in a quandry about the wisest choice, while still keeping to a reasonable price. Having seen very few used canoes for sale in my area, so looks like it might be a new canoe. I plan to use the canoe for hitting some lakes in my region with my sons….do some fly fishing, canoe camp occasionally, that type of thing. If the canoe I end up getting is worthy, the canoe might see some river use (probably nothing worse than Class II, possibly a little Class III, but maybe not), & might also make it to such places as Bowron Lakes & Myrtle Lake in B.C. for more extended canoe camping & paddling (with more portages, a person should start looking at weight….now the cost of the lighter canoes jumps up & introduces itself). I’ve looked at Old Town, Wenonah, Mad River, etc. A person could spend $1000 – $1400 for one of their lighter canoes, or could pay ~$700 for an Old Town Discovery that would suit the bill, but is somewhat heavier. Might also look at a Marathon, Grumman, Osagian, or Alumaweld aluminum canoe as well in that price range. Money being an object here, the price of a Coleman canoe (go ahead, let me have it!) locally is $269 – $319 looks pretty attractive. I know the Coleman would be a rugged, durable canoe. Trying to decide if it’s wiser to get a lighter, more quality designed canoe that would be more versatile in the long term, even if I have to charge !/2 of it or more, or pay cash for something like a Coleman since I’m fairly new to the sport, & would welcome advice from those who have already made such decisions. Would also welcome info about used canoes for sale where freight to eastern Washington wouldn’t be a deterrant. Thanks!

Response:

Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death until some are sick of it, but being new to this group, thought I’d seek some advice anyway. Am going to buy a canoe this spring, & am in a quandry about the wisest choice, while still keeping to a reasonable price. Having seen very few used canoes for sale in my area, so looks like it might be a new canoe.

Yes, it has been done a lot, infact I bet a search on dejanews (www.dejanews.com) would answer most if not all your questions. The coleman is a good boat for short paddles around a quiet lake once in a while, or for giving to a scout troop to learn in (cheap and nigh on industructible).  I have an old town discovery 164 which is about the same as the penobscott, just weighs more… a lot more on a long portage. Personally I’d look around for a used good boat, and stay away from the colemans. Hope this helps Rich Johnson Enfield Nova Scotia Canada

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For flatwater, class I and Class II a good quality fiberglass (cloth, not spray in chopper gun) canoe would be the best bet.  I’d look for a used one, some places (like Rutabaga in Madison, WI and Piragis in ELY, MN) sell a number of used boats like that.  A new We-No-Nah in Tufweave (fiberglass like) can be had for $8-900.  Western Canoeing has similar boats.  Used Kevlar could be in the same range, used fiberglass less. These would work for Class I, not good for Class III, Class II depends on skill level.  For mostly whitewater, Royalex is a better choice, but maybe you can borrow a canoe for those infrequent forays?  It will be heavier and harder to paddle.  Coleman’s are a poor design, Discovery’s are (in the 16′ 9" and 17′ 4" versions) an okay design, but overy heavy and don’t have the long term durability of Royalex. Aluminum is a fine material for flatwater, as good or better than plastic, but can be dangerous in whitewater and a pain in shallow rivers as it tends to stick to rocks, so it’s easy to get stuck and broach. I’d rather (actually I do) have a 17′ Grumman than a Coleman or Discovery. I’d look for a quality fiberglass or used Kevlar boat from We-No-Nah, Mad River, Western, Sawyer. — Andrew Gooding

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Question:

Anyone know of a good trout stream where the fish are wild and reasonably large (14-19")?  The thing is, it needs to be public water that I can drive to.  Also, I was hoping someone could suggest one where there will be no other anglers, and where the fish take small dry flies.  They don’t have to be really easy to catch, but I’m hoping they won’t be too leader shy either.  Another thing – I’d like it to be clean, and there should be rough campsites there, clean ones. You know, a fire ring, but without burnt cans and plastic cups and plates in it. No toilet paper in the bushes either.  Any suggestions? JE

JE,  If it’s brooktrout (native)..from Boston you’ve got to motor up 6-7hrs into northern Maine.  This is for *consistent* 14-19" takes. Get out the gas card;-) tight_lines, steve d.

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Your talking about the Steeprock River in Manitoba but it may be a way to drive ….. and try 22". You might see another human footprint if you fish it for a month. — — Bob Sheedy Angling Adventures North Lake Fly Fishing On-Line Magazine Home of MASTER ANGLER Fishing Software http://www.articfire.com/arcfire/fishing.htm

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Anyone know of a good trout stream where the fish are wild and reasonably large (14-19")?  The thing is, it needs to be public water that I can drive to.  Also, I was hoping someone could suggest one where there will be no other anglers, and where the fish take small dry flies.  They don’t have to be really easy to catch, but I’m hoping they won’t be too leader shy either.  Another thing – I’d like it to be clean, and there should be rough campsites there, clean ones. You know, a fire ring, but without burnt cans and plastic cups and plates in it. No toilet paper in the bushes either.  Any suggestions? JE

Boy you don’t ask for much, do you <g? Any requests for the weather? Peter G. Aitken         Give me half of the above and I’ll take any and all weather!!! JE

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you want ancovies with that?

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Anyone know of a good trout stream where the fish are wild and reasonably large (14-19")?  The thing is, it needs to be public water that I can drive to.  Also, I was hoping someone could suggest one where there will be no other anglers, and where the fish take small dry flies.  They don’t have to be really easy to catch, but I’m hoping they won’t be too leader shy either.  Another thing – I’d like it to be clean, and there should be rough campsites there, clean ones. You know, a fire ring, but without burnt cans and plastic cups and plates in it. No toilet paper in the bushes either.  Any suggestions? JE

John Plenty of such places in the mountain country of mainland SE Australia and in the high country of Tasmania. But don’t tell anyone else. Cheers Peter

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Anyone know of a good trout stream where the fish are wild and reasonably large (14-19")?  The thing is, it needs to be public water that I can drive to.  Also, I was hoping someone could suggest one where there will be no other anglers, and where the fish take small dry flies.  They don’t have to be really easy to catch, but I’m hoping they won’t be too leader shy either.  Another thing – I’d like it to be clean, and there should be rough campsites there, clean ones. You know, a fire ring, but without burnt cans and plastic cups and plates in it. No toilet paper in the bushes either.  Any suggestions? JE

Go to the Cariboo, near Quesnel, BC.  Drive 3 hours beyond Quesnel, and look for any patch of water. Apply flies.  Catch fish.  Only catch is, Quesnel is a little ways (15hrs) from Seattle, which is a little ways from everywhere else.  The Stellako, west of Prince George, BC, is real good too.  It’s north and west of Quesnel about 4 hours. There will be few anglers.  The no anglers thing, would you mind passin’ what yer smokin’?  Any piece of water that can be driven to that has fish will have other people.  The question is how many.  The places I know that don’t have people, continue to not have people cuz I don’t post their names on the ‘Net.  Sorry, but that’s the way it is.   Hell I just spent a week on a river in Alaska that I had to fly an hour in a bush plane to get to, then float 70 miles down to get to the fish, and was surrounded by people (and bears) the whole time.  Caught some big ass rainbows, however.  On mice, too. — Andrew Brunette Remove "_nospam" in return address to respond

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Anyone know of a good trout stream where the fish are wild and reasonably large (14-19")?  The thing is, it needs to be public water that I can drive to.  Also, I was hoping someone could suggest one where there will be no other anglers, and where the fish take small dry flies.  They don’t have to be really easy to catch, but I’m hoping they won’t be too leader shy either.  Another thing – I’d like it to be clean, and there should be rough campsites there, clean ones. You know, a fire ring, but without burnt cans and plastic cups and plates in it. No toilet paper in the bushes either.  Any suggestions? JE

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Anyone know of a good trout stream where the fish are wild and reasonably large (14-19")?  The thing is, it needs to be public water that I can drive to.  Also, I was hoping someone could suggest one where there will be no other anglers, and where the fish take small dry flies.  They don’t have to be really easy to catch, but I’m hoping they won’t be too leader shy either.  Another thing – I’d like it to be clean, and there should be rough campsites there, clean ones. You know, a fire ring, but without burnt cans and plastic cups and plates in it. No toilet paper in the bushes either.  Any suggestions? JE

Boy you don’t ask for much, do you <g? Any requests for the weather? Peter G. Aitken

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Jon, Live a good life and if you are lucky, in the next life, you might just stumble across such a place.  However, with my luck, half this newsgroup will have proceeded you and the place will have been trashed!  :^) Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone know of a good trout stream where the fish are wild and reasonably large (14-19")?  The thing is, it needs to be public water that I can drive to.  Also, I was hoping someone could suggest one where there will be no other anglers, and where the fish take small dry flies.  They don’t have to be really easy to catch, but I’m hoping they won’t be too leader shy either.  Another thing – I’d like it to be clean, and there should be rough campsites there, clean ones. You know, a fire ring, but without burnt cans and plastic cups and plates in it. No toilet paper in the bushes either.  Any suggestions? JE

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone know of a good trout stream where the fish are wild and reasonably large (14-19")?  The thing is, it needs to be public water that I can drive to.  Also, I was hoping someone could suggest one where there will be no other anglers, and where the fish take small dry flies.  They don’t have to be really easy to catch, but I’m hoping they won’t be too leader shy either.  Another thing – I’d like it to be clean, and there should be rough campsites there, clean ones. You know, a fire ring, but without burnt cans and plastic cups and plates in it. No toilet paper in the bushes either.  Any suggestions? JE

       ahhh sounds like your looking to fish out of your bathtub again, but then the fish are probally bigger in there than the ones you usually catch!;p CG

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Anyone know of a good trout stream where the fish are wild and reasonably large (14-19")?  The thing is, it needs to be public water that I can drive to.  Also, I was hoping someone could suggest one where there will be no other anglers, and where the fish take small dry flies.  They don’t have to be really easy to catch, but I’m hoping they won’t be too leader shy either.  Another thing – I’d like it to be clean, and there should be rough campsites there, clean ones. You know, a fire ring, but without burnt cans and plastic cups and plates in it. No toilet paper in the bushes either.  Any suggestions? JE

This sounds a bit too much like heaven to be comfortable… let me know if you find it -paul

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Question:

[snip] Cat fishing there with a fly rod dead drifting a simple worm on the limestone shelves just below the dam at Waterville is probably some of the finest sport known. [snip] Is that really you, George – or is your shadow posting again? Didn’t you recently go ballistic over someone using fly gear with bait, George? Hypocrite, George??

_______HEY MAN, give me a little slack please. How can a boy be a hypocrite at the age of 12? George — MZ

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[snip] Cat fishing there with a fly rod dead drifting a simple worm on the limestone shelves just below the dam at Waterville is probably some of the finest sport known.

[snip] Is that really you, George – or is your shadow posting again? Didn’t you recently go ballistic over someone using fly gear with bait, George? Hypocrite, George??

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Steelhead in the Maumee River now?!!!  Along with the Walleye runs that have been showing up for the last 25 years?  I happen to know the Maumee River like no man alive.  I grew up on it.  Whitehouse, Waterville, Monclova, Ohio area.  Cat fishing there with a fly rod dead drifting a simple worm on the limestone shelves just below the dam at Waterville is probably some of the finest sport known.  Used to club carp there.  Has a lot of drop offs in order to get out there.  Ron Kinkaid in Whitehouse Ohio knows that area even better than me because he still fishes it and you forget things over the years.  The Maumee, named because a crying Indian baby at Turkey Foot Rock was whimpering ma-me, mau-me is how it was named . . . believe it or not.  All the General Anthony Wayne Signs are of my design and invention back in 1953 – 54.  The entire bust and hat and everything.  General Mad Anthony Wayne is the logo for Anthony Wayne High School where I graduated in 1954.  Went directly from H.S. into Flight Training for the U.S.A.F.  Was the first H.S. Graduate in the United States to qualify for fighter pilot school via Chanute Air Force Base in the United States.  I’m kind of proud of that Lee. Yah, I’m an old Buckeye Bronco from Ohio, you betcha!  Used to walk to school (Monclova Grade School) along Swan Creek everyday, even in the winter.  Loved it so.  Chuck Holloway still lives on that road along Swan Creek.  Good place to hunt Wood Duck when the season was in but now not so much as it is basically only a nesting area now, all the way down to Wreckerly Road and where the old county dump used to be, where I used to shoot rats with a .22 single shot.  Great sport!  Rat hunting. Lou Klewer, the ex-outdoor editor of the Toledo Blade lived on Wreckerly Road and I bought my first and most favorite rifle and caliber from Lou. A pre-64 Model 70 in the .220 Swift, which still is my most favorite of all calibers. If God said I had to settle for only one Rifle it would be the .220 Swift.  You betcha!  (Once again) Anyhow Lee, where in Toledo do you live?  I hope this post you aren’t bored with.  You just brought back memories.  I’ll be flying into Toledo Express this spring, a few more weeks or so away.  I have a brother living in Sylvania and Whitehouse, Ohio.  Plus, I always visit Ron Kinkaid.  He lives directly a cross the road from A.W. High School. Have to run Lee.  I knew there was something about you I liked. George Gehrke — MZ — MZ

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Question:

Can someone email to me the last name of Lynn, the owner of Last Chance Outfitters, in Idaho on the Henry’s Fork? Thanks. Ed

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Can someone email to me the last name of Lynn, the owner of Last Chance Outfitters, in Idaho on the Henry’s Fork? Thanks. Ed

Hi Ed I think you must be referring to Lynn Sessions. In the very resent past Hyde Drift Boat Guide Service bought the LC Outfitters from Lynn and he went to work for them. You can reach him at Hyde Drift Boat Fly Shop in Idaho Falls at 208-529-4343. I saw him there when Gretchen and I stopped for a visit on our return trip from the Marriott Show in Calif. a couple of weeks ago. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 materials catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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Question:

My favorite is a "crawdad color fat rap.. Mine has teeth marks in it! Good for bass or walleye.. Get one

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 I Enjoy flyfishing for bass using a popper of wetfly (you can catch a hell of alot of fish on a dryfly but these take a bit more skill)

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I like the good ol’ heddons torpedo.  TOPWATER TOPWATER TOPWATER! There isn’t anything much more exciting!  Thank God the warm weather is here!

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Depends on time of year, water temperature, lake level, water clarity, depth fish are holding, … Whatever they are biting best!!! Always my favorite.

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This is an old idea for a thread, but a good one.   I’m in a traditional Rapala phase, because I’ve caught a bunch of

fish on them in tree-tops the last few weeks. I’m a Mepps man!!! Depending on the size, type and finish they’re great for Bass, Pike and Pickeral (Walleye to my US friends!) Phil

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When they are not hitting on top try a good old fashioned rooster tail…nothing beats them…;and thats a fact…

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I generally like topwater…super exciting!  I’ve alway’s liked floating Rapalas.  Lately, I’ve taken to this yellow Rebel rattling cricket.  I’ve caught bass, black crappies, and even a 14" brown trout on it. pbh xxx

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The purple backed REBEL minnow is the best lure I’ve found for large mouth.  I have caught fish on it in almost every environment that I’ve fished.  A silver and blue rattle trap is a close second.

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I like the Rooster Tails, I’ve caught Smallmouth, Bluegill, Crappie, Largemouth, Pike, Pickeral and even Catfish on them. I think they are about the best all-round lure ever created. Tight Lines and may God Bless you and yours. Misha * Misha Kozupchik                     *     Researching Family Genealogy:  * * 9103 #15 California Avenue          *     Barna: Certizne, Slovak Rep.   * * Marmet, West Virginia 25315         *     Kozupchik: Rechitsa, Belarus   * * USA                                 *     Kozupcik: Certizne, Slovak Rep.*

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As of now I too have been cacthing about 2/3 of my fish on an Orange Rapala…..(bass, perch, crappie, pickerel)….. what about everybody else…. Matt

7 gram floating orange Rapala (expensive), large Panther Martin with buck tail, grey/white 1/8 ounce Roostertail…

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As of now I too have been cacthing about 2/3 of my fish on an Orange Rapala…..(bass, perch, crappie, pickerel)….. what about everybody else…. Matt 7 gram floating orange Rapala (expensive), large Panther Martin with buck tail, grey/white 1/8 ounce Roostertail…

I find in real hard to beat the old round lead-head jig with a curly-tail grub.  The possibilities are endless for the various combinations of weight, grub size, color, action, weedlessness, etc etc.  Add in the other soft plastics, and you have a whole tackle box ready for practically any situation:  top water (slug-go type things), worm fishing (a lead-head is really nothing but a pegged Texas rig), panfish (just last weekend I tired my arm out catching endless perch on 2" white curlytails, *and* caught a few bass and pickerel in the process!), deep jigging, vertical jigging, flipping, open-water suspended fish (like blues or stripers). You get the picture.  I rarely use anything else but jigs.

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As of now I too have been cacthing about 2/3 of my fish on an Orange Rapala…..(bass, perch, crappie, pickerel)….. what about everybody else…. Matt,

Try a chrome and black ratt;ing Chug Bug by Storm Manufacturing.

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As of now I too have been cacthing about 2/3 of my fish on an Orange Rapala…..(bass, perch, crappie, pickerel)….. what about everybody else…. Matt, Try a chrome and black ratt;ing Chug Bug by Storm Manufacturing.

Nothing beats a Blakemore Roadrunner.  1/32  - 1/16 oz for panfish, 1/8 oz – 1/2 oz for bass, 1/2 oz – 1 1/2 oz for stripers.  You can’t fish it wrong as long as you fish it slow. John Hanks

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Bauerle) writes: what about everybody else….

1/4 oz. spinner baits with 3 inch grub trailers. — J.O’B. If you plant ice, you’re gonna harvest wind…

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This is an old idea for a thread, but a good one.  I’m in a traditional Rapala phase, because I’ve caught a bunch of

fish on them in tree-tops the last few weeks.     For pure out and out FUN I love a Barney spoon ( can’t buy um any more-sorry )in weedbads. There is nothing like a little meat and some salad on the side. This isn’t my favorite have to catch a bass lure just my FUN lure..

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This is an old idea for a thread, but a good one.   I’m in a traditional Rapala phase, because I’ve caught a bunch of  fish on them in tree-tops the last few weeks.

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Comer ) writes: This is an old idea for a thread, but a good one.  I’m in a traditional Rapala phase, because I’ve caught a bunch of fish on them in tree-tops the last few weeks.    For pure out and out FUN I love a Barney spoon ( can’t buy um any more-sorry )in weedbads. There is nothing like a little meat and some salad on the side. This isn’t my favorite have to catch a bass lure just my FUN lure..

    Of course I’m a little prejudice, but for all around "fun" I prefer a "M’ or a "MM" series M-Bait in a gold side. —   **** Mike Muncy’s ****         "M-Baits" Handcrafted Cedar Crankbaits

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As of now I too have been cacthing about 2/3 of my fish on an Orange Rapala…..(bass, perch, crappie, pickerel)….. what about everybody else…. Matt,

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