Question:

I was hoping that someone out there might have some information about flyfishing in Brazil. I was thinking of travelling to either Pantanal or Rio Grande do Sul.  I am really beginning my quest, so if anyone can suggest any other areas please let me know. I believe that the Dorado is much fished for as well as the peacock bass in the Amazon, does anyone know of other species? Thank you for your help. Nick Palliser

Response:

Nick Try asking on rec.outdoors.fishing.fly which is a mainly US based NG, you should get some good info there, if they can tear themselves away from the catch and release debate for long enough — Regards, Peter Remove nospam to e-mail www.yachthawkwind.demon.co.uk/peters.htm "We are chosen, we are one  We are frightened of no-one" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was hoping that someone out there might have some information about flyfishing in Brazil. I was thinking of travelling to either Pantanal or Rio Grande do Sul.  I am really beginning my quest, so if anyone can suggest any other areas please let me know. I believe that the Dorado is much fished for as well as the peacock bass in the Amazon, does anyone know of other species? Thank you for your help. Nick Palliser

Response:

Nick: I lived in Bolivia last year.  There is a large fish called Serubi(spelling is wrong) that would be a challenge to catch on a fly rig.  But if you do your in for some good eating! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was hoping that someone out there might have some information about flyfishing in Brazil. I was thinking of travelling to either Pantanal or Rio Grande do Sul.  I am really beginning my quest, so if anyone can suggest any other areas please let me know. I believe that the Dorado is much fished for as well as the peacock bass in the Amazon, does anyone know of other species? Thank you for your help. Nick Palliser

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Question:

Hi John:  if you’re going to be in the Placencia area, we’d love to help you out.  Also, you might want to check our site for info about Belize fishing. Hope you have a great time while you’re here. Mary — Mary V. Toy                           Kevin Modera Guide Services Professional Guides for Tropical Anglers Placencia, Belize Voice and Fax:  (314) 776-3496 URL:  http://www.kevinmodera.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Im going on a cruise to Beleze and Roatan this spring and would love to hire a guide to take me bone fishing. I am only going to be there for one day so it is very important that I make reservations well ahead of time. If anyone knows of a good guide that I could contact, please let me know. Tips up. John Oliverio

Response:

Where in Belize will the cruise be stopping? If it will be at Ambergris Caye (San Pedro), El Pescador, (26) 2975, and Rubie’s Hotel, (26) 2083, have guides available, but I haven’t fished there in a few years. Moon Travel Handbooks’ "Belize Handbook" by Chicki Mallan has some more info. Eric – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Im going on a cruise to Beleze and Roatan this spring and would love to hire a guide to take me bone fishing. I am only going to be there for one day so it is very important that I make reservations well ahead of time. If anyone knows of a good guide that I could contact, please let me know. Tips up. John Oliverio

Response:

Im going on a cruise to Beleze and Roatan this spring and would love to hire a guide to take me bone fishing. I am only going to be there for one day so it is very important that I make reservations well ahead of time. If anyone knows of a good guide that I could contact, please let me know. Tips up. John Oliverio

Response:

Didn’t you hear?  Roatan is gone.  It was washed away by the hurricane. Ash Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Im going on a cruise to Beleze and Roatan this spring and would love to hire a guide to take me bone fishing. I am only going to be there for one day so it is very important that I make reservations well ahead of time. If anyone knows of a good guide that I could contact, please let me know. Tips up. John Oliverio

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Question:

Has anyone tried fly fishing for catfish? What type of flys did you use have suggestions.

Response:

Has anyone tried fly fishing for catfish? What type of flys did you use have suggestions. Try hand grenades.  Be sure to use a tapered leader.

Response:

Question:

I would appreciate if someone would post chapter and verse the regulations regarding foul hooking (or snagging) of fish in Colorado. So far the only reference has been a brief ‘open season’ on the Gunnison to utilize Kokanee in the late fall. Is snagging generally allowed. Is it only allowed in only this or other specific instances? If only in limited circumstances what if anything do the regulations say about what an angler must do if he/she accidentally foul hooks a fish when it is not within the specific allowance of the regulation?

Ralph, I have read along this thread and waded through some of the off target posts. After reading you post and the follow up from  "Keith Bell" snagging rules are likely very different than what constitutes a legal catch and how a foul hook is defined. Here in Georgia this has been of concern to myself and several of my fellow anglers. On a trophy stream(the only one at the time) one of the regular anglers was suspected of snagging(which would be foul hooking) fish. Understand the the water here is small and in the summer it can be extremely shallow. This particular angler(whose name sadly became synonymous with foul hooking) used a fly rod with a VERY heavy leader, several full size split shot and a size six wolly worm. Amazingly he detailed how fish would strike repeatedly after actually being hooked and breaking off. It was more accurate to say that he stood over fish, dragging his terminal tackle along, under a fish and I guess near the head. Then he would give it a hook set. He regularly foul hooked fish as reported by those who fished with him. My partner came upon he and his son and kept out of site till they left. When we entered the hole we found a fish floating with a very noticable puncture wound in the belly; it was recently dead. Now, I must say that I have foul hooked fish. When that happens and I realize it I try to land the fish quickly and release it. The former stream mentioned allowed an angler to keep a single fish over 22"(17" Brook) per day(3/yr) but if it was foul hooked, it technically should have been released. I don’t know how to avoid foul hooking a fish in normal angling. Here in Georgia though, if you are fishing in put & take streams I suppose it does not matter. Streams with restrictions would be different but it still depends mostly on the ethics of the angler. Hope this is not too long. Good luck on your serach for information. Regrads, J. Webb Atlanta Mac User Group

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [deleted] 7. SNAGGING:         Snagging is illegal unless permitted by the Division on specific waters during specific times. Those seasons are in the list of waters in this brochure. Snagged fish, except kokanee salmon, must be returned to the water immediately. Waters open to snagging include: Beaver Creek Res.; [list shortened] and Williams Fork Res. Snagging begins as early as Sept. 1 on some waters and runs to Jan. 31 on others. To be useful, though, Ken, you should have also posted the definition of Snagging. I didn’t think it was needed, but if it makes you feel better. From the following URL… http://www.canoecreek.com/CFF/p12.htm SNAGGING: Taking of fish by snatching with hooks, gang  hooks, artificial flies or lures or similar devices that hook  fish in part of its body other than mouth. Sounds like you’re pretty much busted on this one.  ;-( But, to be *truly* useful, now you will have to define "snatch". TimW

))))))))  I’m afraid that you’re stretching just a bit too far on that one.  (((((((-: Considering the original phrase in the regulation, "Snagged fish, except kokanee salmon, must be returned to the water immediately."  It leaves little room for anyone to believe that the intent of the regulation is anything other than if you happen to snag a fish you are supposed to release it. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with the regulation, you technically were in violation. Sorry,      - Ken

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [deleted] 7. SNAGGING:         Snagging is illegal unless permitted by the Division on specific waters during specific times. Those seasons are in the list of waters in this brochure. Snagged fish, except kokanee salmon, must be returned to the water immediately. Waters open to snagging include: Beaver Creek Res.; [list shortened] and Williams Fork Res. Snagging begins as early as Sept. 1 on some waters and runs to Jan. 31 on others. To be useful, though, Ken, you should have also posted the definition of Snagging. I didn’t think it was needed, but if it makes you feel better. From the following URL… http://www.canoecreek.com/CFF/p12.htm SNAGGING: Taking of fish by snatching with hooks, gang  hooks, artificial flies or lures or similar devices that hook  fish in part of its body other than mouth.   Sounds like you’re pretty much busted on this one.  ;-(

But, to be *truly* useful, now you will have to define "snatch". TimW

Response:

By your definition’s oh great right and mighty ones, *All* active presentations of the lure would be illegal. And clearly, any self respecting flyfisherman would look the other way while I weeded out the ‘trash’ species. What do the flyfishermen in the valley call them as they hurl the mighty whitefish onto the bank…"Choabies" ? — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

By your definition’s oh great right and mighty ones, *All* active presentations of the lure would be illegal.

You’re twisting the words again. Here’s what was said, "Snagged fish, except kokanee salmon, must be returned to the water immediately."  This is straight from the Colorado regs.  What they are saying is that if you happen to snag a fish, you must return that fish to the water immediately. This doesn’t make any type of presentation illegal, it just says that regardless of how you happened to do it, you must let the fish go. Whether this is the correct thing to do or not is not at issue here, according to the regs you were doing the wrong thing. Just trying to keep things honest here,      - Ken — Due to USENET parsing SPAMmers, anti-spam measures are in place, reverse the letters in my login to reply (kinajk to kjan..). The opinions expressed do not necessarily indicate the opinions of my employer.

Response:

[deleted] 7. SNAGGING:         Snagging is illegal unless permitted by the Division on specific waters during specific times. Those seasons are in the list of waters in this brochure. Snagged fish, except kokanee salmon, must be returned to the water immediately. Waters open to snagging include: Beaver Creek Res.; [list shortened] and Williams Fork Res. Snagging begins as early as Sept. 1 on some waters and runs to Jan. 31 on others.

To be useful, though, Ken, you should have also posted the definition of Snagging. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Question:

Hey all you whaco thread spinners, listen up.  Tired of all the crap floating around in this news group? Well so am I!   Lets begin the FlyTiers Corner.  It will be dedicated to those of us who are equally as enthused, maybe more, about our tying as our fishing.   It appears that a Fly Tying NG is not the answer at this time.  There should be enough interest to make FTC a success. One really great thing about the angling aspect of this sport is the willingness of most participants to share their knowledge and skills.  I find that to be more so in the tying end. Let’s give it a whack and see what happens.  Share your patterns, tips, techniques, sources (maybe) and ideas with the rest of us fanatic tyers. YOU WILL NEED TO GIVE TO RECEIVE. Hi-Vis Wing Material, Manufacturer – L&L Products – I first saw this stuff in National Feather Craft catalog several years and sent for a few bags. It is available in just about every imaginable color but I find that most of my work is with white, light dun and med. dun.  I tie hundreds of dz of parachutes and mayfly spinners per year and this material wonderful.  It is very light in weight, holds its color, has just the right stiffness, and is very visible.  Try it on a Adams Para and you will never go back to cafl body. Yippi tie one on, AuSable1

Response:

Let’s give it a whack and see what happens.  Share your patterns, tips, techniques, sources (maybe) and ideas with the rest of us fanatic tyers. YOU WILL NEED TO GIVE TO RECEIVE.

OK. I have created a website for flytyers entitled "WWW Fly Tyer". It is not fully finished, but I feel there is enough content there to at least warrant a look. Check back as it will continue to improve from here. http://www.ns.net/~barnard Enjoy…Alan. PS – Don’t forget to sign the guestbook!   Alan Barnard   Kiene’s Fly Shop   Sacramento, Ca.   WWW Fly Tyer:   http://www.ns.net/~barnard

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey all you whaco thread spinners, listen up.  Tired of all the crap floating around in this news group? Well so am I!   Lets begin the FlyTiers Corner.  It will be dedicated to those of us who are equally as enthused, maybe more, about our tying as our fishing.   It appears that a Fly Tying NG is not the answer at this time.  There should be enough interest to make FTC a success. One really great thing about the angling aspect of this sport is the willingness of most participants to share their knowledge and skills.  I find that to be more so in the tying end. Let’s give it a whack and see what happens.  Share your patterns, tips, techniques, sources (maybe) and ideas with the rest of us fanatic tyers. YOU WILL NEED TO GIVE TO RECEIVE. Hi-Vis Wing Material, Manufacturer – L&L Products – I first saw this stuff in National Feather Craft catalog several years and sent for a few bags. It is available in just about every imaginable color but I find that most of my work is with white, light dun and med. dun.  I tie hundreds of dz of parachutes and mayfly spinners per year and this material wonderful.  It is very light in weight, holds its color, has just the right stiffness, and is very visible.  Try it on a Adams Para and you will never go back to cafl body. Yippi tie one on, AuSable1

Shut-up, form your new group & get out Life’s a fish, then you fry…..                      …     .—.     _…                  (  _. _.-’                   ____          ~~’                       …-’

Question:

I just thought that i would tell the world that my son got his first salmon last week a six pound hummpy. What a thrill for him.

Response:

I just thought that i would tell the world that my son got his first salmon last week a six pound hummpy. What a thrill for him.

Wow! That kid must have some arm casting a six pound humpy.  (does there really exist a humpy salmon?)

Response:

 I just thought that i would tell the world that my son got his first  salmon last week a six pound hummpy. What a thrill for him.  Wow! That kid must have some arm casting a six pound humpy.  (does there  really exist a humpy salmon?)

    Yes.  It’s another name for a Pink Salmon.

Response:

writes: (does there really exist a humpy salmon?)

In Alaska they call them "Humpies from Hell".  They come in every other year and take flies well.  Unfortunately they come in about the same time the silvers do and take the fly before it gets down to the larger silvers.  Great light tackle fish (6 or 7 wt.). Not as much fun on the 8 or 9 wt. you’d use for silvers (at least in Alaska).                                                      Dan

Response:

Question:

Hi….     I would like some advice on HOW to fish for Steelhead on a fly!! I have been swinging green and red butted skunks in the South Santiam River for two years now, without a take on the fly. I  fish the tailouts and ripples for hours. I have spent my thirty hours on the water, I WANT MY FISH! (Smile)      What do I need to buy or learn about these fish that would make me one of the %10 of the people who catch %90 of the Steelhead. At the present time: I am using light 7 weight, 8 1/2 foot long with floating line and a 9 foot leader. I use a couple of split shot about a foot from the fly to get it to sink. I don’t weight my Steelhead flys… I was told not to by a local flyshop operator, "DEFINITELY DO NOT PUT LEAD ON YOUR FLYS."        Do I need to buy some kinda of sinking line, something like a Deep Water Express to go deeper for Steelhead. I fish for them below the serface during the summer months. *This is what I have read: fish for Steelhead right below the surface during the summer months because the fishes matabolism speeds up due to the warmth of the water and the need to spawn. Also, do Steelhead stay near the bottom of the river most all of the time they are traveling up the river? I see an occasional steelie jump out of the water, but as spectacular as this events is, it is but brief pause to my clinching teeth and despondantly cursing these fish out of my frustration. Heck, I used every fowl word in the English language, so I took up speaking Spanish so that I could curse these fish in another language. (Smile)     In the spirit of flyfishing, if you live in Oregon and understand how to fish for steelhead, then please respond to this message. Even if you don’t…any advice would be nice. If you are fishing for these fish near or around the Eugene, Oregon or Salem, Oregon area, and wouldn’t mind giving a beginner some advice on the river, then let me know and I will bring the beer and lunch. *Sorry, I am a poor college student and can’t afford a guide, even though I would love to charter a guide for a day.*      Thanks…          Joey Hurt  

Response:

    In the spirit of flyfishing, if you live in Oregon and understand   how to fish for steelhead, then please respond to this message. Even if   you don’t…any advice would be nice. If you are fishing for these fish   near or around the Eugene, Oregon or Salem, Oregon area, and wouldn’t   mind giving a beginner some advice on the river, then let me know and I   will bring the beer and lunch. *Sorry, I am a poor college student and   can’t afford a guide, even though I would love to charter a guide for a   day.*       Thanks…           Joey Hurt  

Joey,     No, you don’t need a sinking line.  Actually, you don’t even need a subsurface fly, particularly on fresh fish.  I am a little curious about the S. Santiam as your river of choice.  Any particular reason you picked it over the N. Santiam, the Umpqua the Deschutes or others?  Fishing for steelhead is something of an act of faith these days.  There were somewhat less than 500 wild fish over Sherars Falls on the Deschutes last year.  In the mid 80s, we had just under 10,000. Sounds like you are going about it in the right way, though it is difficult to tell if your are maximizing your chances by picking prime time (of day and year) for the water you are fishing.  You might consider hooking up with a club, the Santiam Flycasters in Salem.  You can access them through Keith Burkhart at the Valley Flyfisher on Alice St. in Salem.                                             Mike in PDX                "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                                            Tom McGuane

Response:

Joey, Check out The Anadramous Page on the web.  If you can’t find it, let me know and I’ll send you the URL. Mike

Response:

all i really know about steelhead is that you dont carch them they catch you.  im a student at osu and live in corvallis year round.  i am new to the game but would be more than happy to double team those bastard fish.   by the way have you tried the fork below jefferson wheere the north and south meet. -craig

Response:

Question:

: DOES ANYONE KNOW OF A QUALIFIED MAN OR WOMAN WHO WOULD BE : INTERESTED IN PROVIDING FLY CASTING CLASSES TO CUSTOMERS OF AN : ORVIS FULL DISTRIBUTORSHIP IN ALBUQUERQUE NM?  ALSO LOOKING FOR : LICENSED GUIDES WHO CAN WORK THE PECOS, RIO GRANDE, CIMARRON, OR : CHAMA.   Call Harry D. Knox…he has a great school…

Response:

DOES ANYONE KNOW OF A QUALIFIED MAN OR WOMAN WHO WOULD BE INTERESTED IN PROVIDING FLY CASTING CLASSES TO CUSTOMERS OF AN ORVIS FULL DISTRIBUTORSHIP IN ALBUQUERQUE NM?  ALSO LOOKING FOR LICENSED GUIDES WHO CAN WORK THE PECOS, RIO GRANDE, CIMARRON, OR CHAMA.   — manuel monasterio

Response:

The FFF now has a program of certified fly fishing instructors, as well as a directory of those who have been certified.  Contact them in Montana. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -DOES ANYONE KNOW OF A QUALIFIED MAN OR WOMAN WHO WOULD BE INTERESTED IN PROVIDING FLY CASTING CLASSES TO CUSTOMERS OF AN ORVIS FULL DISTRIBUTORSHIP IN ALBUQUERQUE NM?  ALSO LOOKING FOR LICENSED GUIDES WHO CAN WORK THE PECOS, RIO GRANDE, CIMARRON, OR CHAMA.   — manuel monasterio

Response:

Question:

There are a lot of public access sites on the Au Sable, including all 3 branches (Mainstream, North Branch, and South Branch).  In addition to state property, Trout Unlimited has two pieces of donated property in the "flies only" stretch.  One is north of Stephan’s Bridge, on the north side of the rive, called Guides’ Rest.  The other is further west and just north of Wakeley Bridge (also on the north side) near the Thunderbird Club.       The single best source of information on the AuSable comes from the river guide that is produced for the river by the Challenge Chapter of Trout Unlimited.  In addition to maps, it includes an emergence chart for the major fly hatches.       Your Email address indicates you are on the UM campus, as I am.  You can buy one of these guides at MacGregor’s (on Main Street), or I will be happy to let you look at mine if they’re out.  Mike Traugott     – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Can anyone supply me with a few public access sites on the AuSable River System? Any proven patterns are more than welcome.

Response:

there is a great book called "12 Classic Trout Streams of Michigan" at Border’s in Ann Arbor and at Macgregor’s, that lists access sites to the Au Sable and other streams that is really good information.

Response:

I usually fish from Keystone Landing to Stephan Bridge on the main stream.   I haven’t had the chance to fish the south branch yet, but i think i will concentrate on it this summer.  Most of it is "match the hatch" water.  It is also a very picturesque stream, with sweeping cedars in the water providing excellent cover.  P.S. I don’t consider myself an expert on this stream, but I am just telling you what I know.  There is a "hatch hotline" you can call to see what the latest conditions are.  It’s updated everyday one the weather starts warming up, but currently it just contains general winter conditions.  the number is (517) 348-7108.  very helpful.

Response:

Question:

There may be less people doing overnight backpack trips, but I bet there are more people in the backcountry overall and doing a much more diverse set of activities. Which is very good news for us that do like to backpack: less people in the backcountry.  There might be more people in the woods but they all leave at dark.  I was talking to a fellow the other day who said he did quite

Oops! Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply we’re not in the backcountry after dark.  Many times I’m bivouaced on a ledge while climbing or camping in sagebrush near a remote desrt cave in Wyoming. So what I meant to imply is that besides the diversity of day trips many of us pack gear into remote places during mountaineering, caving, and whitewater trips that backpackers normally don’t visit. I’ve never seen backpackers on the East Ridge of the Grand Teton, or in the desert near Bighorn caverns, or along some of the remote stretches of whitewater in central Idaho, so there ARE more people in the backcountry overnight far from trailheads and vehicles, but in different places than backpackers normally go. I think what I’m getting at is, we are using backpacking as a mode of trasportation for some other goal, and not an end in itself. I’m not a "backpacker", yet backpacking is a critical part of getting to a lot of remote activities where I do spend the night. I’ve probably spent 300 night camped in backcountry far from roads in the past 6 or 7 years and only 3 of those night were on what I would call a backpacking trip. Steve —

Response:

Eugene Miya: What worries me more are the borderline Wilcox’s out there reading the net (you can quote me on that).  I know a few in everyday life, and I lost one a couple of years back.  That is evolution in action. –eugene Steve Reiser:   Hi Eugene, I read your posting on "In the Hall of the Mountain King" and "White Winds", both of which I’ve read and have copies of.  Snyder indicated a lot of bad judgement by Wilcox.  Wilcox tries to be objective in his book, but one can’t help but notice his omissions. He seemed to cover up his errors not by arguing with Snyder’s account, but by ignoring them altogether. His book seemed somewhat defensive, especially at the end when he talks about all the grief he went through in the press afterword. I think Snyder probably gave an honest account, which arouses some wrath toward Wilcox, in most readers.  I didn’t like the way Wilcox covered his errors, but I was convinced that he suffered enough condemnation afterword to make me feel a bit sorry for him. I think his response was a bit overly defensive to the media, the Park Service, and the relatives of those who died. I would imagine that Wilcox’s attempt to gloss over his errors may have been part of the inspiration for Snyder to write his book in the first place. Hence, if Wilcox would have been more honest in the first place, it’s possible that neither book would have ever been written. It’s hard to read both books and not come up with mixed feelings toward Wilcox.  It’s tempting to feel some anger toward him for lack of good judgement, especially on their summit day for the second group, and at the same time feeling some sympathy for the weight of blame layed on him, since he was the expedition leader. (Snyder was better qualified to be the leader of the group.) Steve Reiser P.S – Seven friends of mine left yesterday for the Denali. I wish them well. (They’re more experienced than most in the books discussed above). If this appears twice, I first posted without a subject. —

Response:

I think what I’m getting at is, we are using backpacking as a mode of trasportation for some other goal, and not an end in itself. I’m not a "backpacker", yet backpacking is a critical part of getting to a lot of remote activities where I do spend the night. I’ve probably spent 300 night camped in backcountry far from roads in the past 6 or 7 years and only 3 of those night were on what I would call a backpacking trip.

Maybe we have a problem with semantics here.  I think if you hike off into the woods with a backpack, you’re backpacking, no matter what the end result is.  I pack in to climb mountains, do caves, search for minerals, etc. and consider that backpacking.  Cripes, those packs are heavy – I’m not doing it for fun. Well, maybe I am.  Either way, I’m still pleased that there are less people out there when sunset finishes and the stars come out.

Response:

There may be less people doing overnight backpack trips, but I bet there are more people in the backcountry overall and doing a much more diverse set of activities.

Which is very good news for us that do like to backpack: less people in the backcountry.  There might be more people in the woods but they all leave at dark.  I was talking to a fellow the other day who said he did quite a bit of backpacking in the early 70’s.  He said that he would hike 10 miles into the backcountry and see several groups of people back there too and think nothing of it.  Other than my group of friends, I don’t know anyone at all that backpacks and I almost never see anyone else in the backcountry (outside of hunters, that is).  One would think that there would at least be trail bikers back there but they seem to be more into ‘day-biking’.  I’m not complaining, of course, I’m happy.

Response:

I thought some might find this article interesting – DH [some deleted] ON THE DECLINE   Overnight and longer backpacking trips are a sport on the decline, said Christy Metz, public information specialist for Rocky Mountain National Park. In their place, the number of day hikers and campground campers are growing. Backpacking began increasing in the early ’70s, peaked in the late ’70s, and has been falling ever since.  In 1977, Rocky Mountain National Park issued 62,708 back-country permits; in 1989, 32,792.

However, if you look at statistics for many other backcountry activities, you’ll find a drastic increase. Mountaineering, technical rock climbing, kayaking, mountain biking, spelunking, and many other backcountry sports are experiencing nearly exponential growth.  I see more people specializing in specific sports in the backcountry and less who are out strictly backpacking. DIVERSIFY   Some salespeople at moutaineering shops, however, are a bit hesitant to see their lines diversify too much.  Many tempered their enthusiasm for expansion with a note of service to the true back country lover.

This hesitation to diversify has cost many local stores business in specialized gear, more of which is sold through mail order companies.  I probably buy 50% of my outdoor gear through mail order due to this hesitance in local store.  I’m into all of the sports I listed above and the diversity of gear required is far more than most outdoor shops are willing to carry. My point here in comparison to the original article is to note that even though outdoor gear is fashionable on the streets, day hikes, and campgrounds, and with backpacking on the decline, there is still an exploding market for specialized backcoutry sports. There may be less people doing overnight backpack trips, but I bet there are more people in the backcountry overall and doing a much more diverse set of activities. Steve —

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I thought some might find this article interesting – DH Backpacking Outlets Expand Bottom Line    by Susan Simmons Eustes Boulder Business Report – May 1990    Despite a dramatic drop in number of campers and tourists trekking into the back country, area mountaineering stores say their sales are growing every year.    The day when the Vasque hiking boots were the "casual" loafer for many Boulderites has long disappeared.  Today, lighter and brighter are in demand and traditional mountaineering stores are expanding product lines to include gear for every sport from kayaking to mountain biking.    Like it or not, the mountaineering "look" continues to be fashionable in Boulder.  "You always want the ‘in’ look, whether you are hiking the mall or hiking Flagstaff," said John Whitbeck, manager at the north face in Boulder. "People want to wear clothing that identifies them as outdoorsy." ON THE DECLINE    Overnight and longer backpacking trips are a sport on the decline, said Christy Metz, public information specialist for Rocky Mountain National Park. In their place, the number of day hikers and campground campers are growing. Backpacking began increasing in the early ’70s, peaked in the late ’70s, and has been falling ever since.  In 1977, Rocky Mountain National Park issued 62,708 back-country permits; in 1989, 32,792.    … In 1985, the first year permits were issued for Indian Peaks [Wilderness Area], 2,134 were requested.  In 1989, 1,550 permits were requested.    So what does this mean for the people who sell camp stoves, sleeping bags, and hiking shoes?    It means even more business, said Whitbeck.    "In our 15 retail stores, without exception, business has been up a mile." The selling point for The North Face, and other mountain stores, is the dramatic shift in outdoor gear lines from the products carried 15 years ago. The traditional business of boots, packs and tents has mushroomed to include equipment for outdoor sports as varied as cross-country skiing or fly fishing. DIVERSIFY    As baby boomers married and began to raise children, more chose day hikes or more convenient overnight stays in campgrounds, say Jim Wilson of the back- country office at Rocky Mountain National Park. …    … (examples of stores diversifying) …    Dan Hare, manager of The Boulder Mountaineer, said his sales of backpacks and sleeping bags continues to increase, but "lots of people buy backpacks that never go into the back country," he added.    Shannon Long, manager at the Boulder Army Store, has noticed more of his customers are car camping and buying more for convenience.  Such campers, however, often opt for the more expensive lines.    "Ten years ago, people weren’t buying high-tech stuff.  They weren’t into buying brand names.  They were more concerned about getting a good product for a low price."    Clothing is a big seller for most outdoor shops.  Color are big, as are brand names and high fashion, mountain store owners agree.    Everybody likes rugby shirts and cotton shorts, said Phil Hollman, salesman at The North Face.  "Colors and style – people are really taken with that as much as we like to think they weren’t," Hollman said.  "Everything is getting more specialized: new technologies, new fabrics, lighter weight and very colorful."    Wools and cottons are taking a back seat to newer, more durable and comfortable fabrics such as Goretex, Dudley said.  And with the newer fabrics come higher prices.    The "tech heads" want the best, Noel added.  People want the fiberglass tent poles, the lightweight backpacks and the warmer, more water repellant clothing even if it means higher prices.    Some salespeople at moutaineering shops, however, are a bit hesitant to see their lines diversify too much.  Many tempered their enthusiasm for expansion with a note of service to the true back country lover.    Image and brand names mean more to people than store managers care to admit, [Mountain Sports buyer Scott] Lee said.  "We’re not quite as trendy a store as some …  We don’t want to lose our image as a mountaineering shop."

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